I really like the recommendations here. As a therapist, you can address the difficulties associated with the codependency label without pathologizing. One thing that's central to how I do therapy is to help clients gain deeper perception of their own in needs in relation to the needs of the people in their lives. People who would either be labeled as codependent or who identify with the label often take on the needs of others as if they're their own. Simply helping clients to identify their needs and have more choice in how they respond when their needs are in conflict with another can be liberating.
This was extraordinarily helpful and very clear and concise in the way you delivered the information. THANK YOU! I loathe the term and concept of 'codependency' for these exact reasons. It's scary and concerning that society today pathologizes being caring to a loved one. They who use codependency model claim you're trying to 'control' but also claim that you're not doing 'enough' to 'stop it' (abandon the person, let them hit rock bottom, which for some is death, leave a family, set boundaries that aren't authentic, etc...). It never made sense, but what it did do was successfully shame empaths. The world needs empathy now more than ever today. I don't even trust seeing a therapist unless they understand this concept. So few of them do. They go for the blame game model and say you attracted abuse or attracted the addiction or caused the person to be bad somehow when all you did was show love and give someone a chance. God Bless you dear. Thank you for sharing this message.
I recently had an MFT try to label me as a codependent because I suggested loyalty and being considerate are good things in a relationship. She argued that I have to betray myself in order to be that way and that therefore I was codependent because I was choosing the forego my needs to stay in the relationship. While at least her logic there wasn't bad, I think it shows how unscientific the idea of "codependency" is. The notion that you might care for someone more than yourself isn't automatically a bad thing.
The caring, trusting, and attuned nature that our higher self took great care to instill us with, should not be being pathologized, shamed, and demonized as we are witnessing these days. If anything is causing the sadness, isolation, and disconnection from one another that we are witnessing on a gargantuan scale now (I'm not being doom and gloom about it, it's a learning experience and nothing unideal is permanent) The culture of 'toxic independence', 'attachment/genuine love, is shameful and bad', hyper-inflated 'boundaries', as well as societally encouraged contempt, apathy, and passive aggression towards family members and partners... will never result in an ounce of true betterment of one individual nor humanity at large- ...no matter how many 'mental health professionals' and 'experts' peddle this to the masses whose ego's (not hating on the ego, that too is integral haha) immediately grativtate to this precarious wildfire ideology, from a place of confirmation bias, and the hurt-driven cowardice and lack of introspection that we are all capable of. It's a matter of looking closer; surpassing all that, From the heart, not the constricting and dark walls of wound based defenses.
I stumbled across your channel because I am having some relationship struggles due to patriarchal influence. I just want to say how much it means to me to find your videos. It is clear to me how much thought you put into your opinions & your message. Although of course there are many marginalized people who already have called out to be heard on these things, it is always such a relief to see someone with privilege step up and share difficult and controversial ideas for the betterment of humankind. This particular video about codependency brought many ideas to my attention I had not even remotely considered before. I hope I can use your videos as a tool/as a discussion starter within difficult relationships. Thank you very much for your efforts at being a kind and thoughtful person.
What I don't like is how considering the rising rent rates, the physical inability to work long hours without exhaustion and pain, and a number of unwanted responsibilities that don't even account for the harm some of them are doing to the environment... that we are expected to just hightail it out of a relationship and move on your own? Not to mention the emotional pain of isolation bearing down on you... But its also inconsiderate of how much our lives are shaped by pain and so much of addiction all comes from that. But no... No consideration for the reality of any of that real stuff... Its just your codependency thats ruining your life. Its simply not sustainable for our future to not look at the deeper issues and ride it all down to an individual being codependent as the problem...
I love this message overall, and it is a breath of fresh air. But can I please make as absolutely clear as possible “THIS IS NOT PURELY SOMETHING WOMEN GO THROUGH” and also that “THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT ABUSERS AREN’T ALWAYS TAKING SUBSTANCES”. Even though I admit to how much substance makes things worse, I have been with women who took no substances and purely got enough supply by constantly manipulating others which in equivalent was their drug of choice. Certain men do this too btw. I personally think the “Co-dependant” label is victim blaming and also the equivalent of shifting blame on a victim of because of them dressing themselves up. Abusers mirror victims and stalk them like any predator stalks prey. They can mimic a completely reasonable adult exchange to lower victims into a false feeling of thinking their predator feels and thinks just like the victim thinks and feels. Really appreciate the video tho.
Hey Chris! I'm really enjoying these videos. Thank you for making them. I have recently started attending Al-Anon meetings, more out of curiosity rather than a need for them. I have come to the conclusion that almost (if not all) people most likely have characteristics and behaviors that would be labeled as "codependent". However, as you spoke to, there are so many varying definitions of it. I have begun recommending everyone I know to attend Al-Anon at some point. It really is beneficial for all. In my opinion. Again, thank you for making these videos.
Great video & series, thank you! Link to the Calderwood & Rajesparum article isn’t working, seems to be a pay for article, you may hve rights to publish however. Wld you plz retry posting the link?
as someone who has been a long time member of the recovery community I just get so tired of hearing that codependency thrown around I understand the need for independence but it's almost like and maybe my view is biased because I'm in recovery but it seems like the idea of having a relationship with another person having a deep and meaningful connection is seen as a weakness and as codependent.
How do you explain that my whole life, I have had a string of irresponsible boyfriends who I have made excuses for, taken care of and cleared up their messes? How do you explain that for 20 years, I was constantly going to the doctor for depression and fatigue that was unresponsive to treatment? How do you explain that I had no idea that all my helpfulness was excessive until I learned about codependency? How do you explain that my depression and fatigue finally went away for the first time in my life once I stopped feeling obligated to take care of everyone's problems for them?
BPD. Y'all love fuckboys and badboys. If you actually got a healthy Man, you'd ruin him, project your exes on him. You don't know how to function in normal relationships.
I only had one relationship until my husband, never had sex until my husband, never did drugs ever, people always said I was so calm and neutral about problems my friends/family were having... this was also said to me by family and room mates. I even became kind of a loner after I was sexually assaulted in college. I’m not “addicted” to toxic people. I usually try to avoid them. And after I discovered my husband had been lying to me since the beginning of our relationship, I was called codependent by a therapist I sought out after all of my husband’s lies came to light... simply because I was mad that he lied and manipulated me for 7 years. And having low self esteem and not wanting to have sex with him after him telling me he prefers other women sexually and betrayed my trust. I am not the “caretaker” type, I was a strong independent woman before my husband, the type that would kick a guy to the curb if he acted like he wasn’t interested in me for who I am... and I even I wound up with someone who emotionally abused me for years and I didn’t even realize it until his house of cards came crashing down on both of us. My therapist can shove it if she thinks that I enabled him to deceive me or purposefully chose him because I subconsciously knew he was a manipulator. My first instinct when I found out who my husband really is was to run as fast as I could, but everyone kept telling me to stay, to forgive, think of the kids, blah blah blah. I listened, and now I have PTSD from feeling trapped in a relationship with a person like him. I’m not codependent, I was manipulated and then destroyed by my husband and society.
You are free to choose to pathoogise yourself and if that helps, who has the right to argue? Glad it appears to have helped. For many others, it is not helpful to pathologise their behaviour. Another perspective you could choose in that situation is to see it from a particular feminist analysis - that you internalised the stereotypic gender role ascribed by the patriarchal system all of us reside in. That is, to my mind, the deeper analysis. You are not the problem. But we all have a responsibility to root out the real problem. Everything in your story, and I mean everything, is a textbook description of the toxic effects of living in (and unconsciously subscribing to) the patriarchal system that oppresses us all, female and male alike - albeit in different ways....the substance abusing males are not truly free and flourishing in this system either...hence the substance abuse. I'm not at all surprised your depression and fatigue went away for the first time once you stopped feeling obligated to take care of everyone's problems! That would be the prescription from a feminist point of view, and no pathologising/diseasifying of you would have been necessary.
Gah! I hate this research. It supports the continuing of behaviors that are self destructive!! To label codependency as an attack on women is ridiculous. Codependency goes far beyond living with an addict. The people behind this idea had an agenda. Pathologizing helping behaviors - Puh-lease!
I really like the recommendations here. As a therapist, you can address the difficulties associated with the codependency label without pathologizing. One thing that's central to how I do therapy is to help clients gain deeper perception of their own in needs in relation to the needs of the people in their lives. People who would either be labeled as codependent or who identify with the label often take on the needs of others as if they're their own. Simply helping clients to identify their needs and have more choice in how they respond when their needs are in conflict with another can be liberating.
Codependency is a very shaming word that demonizes people who care for addicted love ones by making them addicts as well.
This was extraordinarily helpful and very clear and concise in the way you delivered the information. THANK YOU! I loathe the term and concept of 'codependency' for these exact reasons. It's scary and concerning that society today pathologizes being caring to a loved one. They who use codependency model claim you're trying to 'control' but also claim that you're not doing 'enough' to 'stop it' (abandon the person, let them hit rock bottom, which for some is death, leave a family, set boundaries that aren't authentic, etc...). It never made sense, but what it did do was successfully shame empaths. The world needs empathy now more than ever today. I don't even trust seeing a therapist unless they understand this concept. So few of them do. They go for the blame game model and say you attracted abuse or attracted the addiction or caused the person to be bad somehow when all you did was show love and give someone a chance. God Bless you dear. Thank you for sharing this message.
Thank you! This needs to be more widely known. How can we talk to people who believe this myth and even get angry when you mention it's a myth.
I recently had an MFT try to label me as a codependent because I suggested loyalty and being considerate are good things in a relationship. She argued that I have to betray myself in order to be that way and that therefore I was codependent because I was choosing the forego my needs to stay in the relationship.
While at least her logic there wasn't bad, I think it shows how unscientific the idea of "codependency" is. The notion that you might care for someone more than yourself isn't automatically a bad thing.
The caring, trusting, and attuned nature that our higher self took great care to instill us with, should not be being pathologized, shamed, and demonized as we are witnessing these days.
If anything is causing the sadness, isolation, and disconnection from one another that we are witnessing on a gargantuan scale now (I'm not being doom and gloom about it, it's a learning experience and nothing unideal is permanent)
The culture of 'toxic independence', 'attachment/genuine love, is shameful and bad', hyper-inflated 'boundaries', as well as societally encouraged contempt, apathy, and passive aggression towards family members and partners... will never result in an ounce of true betterment of one individual nor humanity at large-
...no matter how many 'mental health professionals' and 'experts' peddle this to the masses whose ego's (not hating on the ego, that too is integral haha) immediately grativtate to this precarious wildfire ideology, from a place of confirmation bias, and the hurt-driven cowardice and lack of introspection that we are all capable of.
It's a matter of looking closer; surpassing all that,
From the heart, not the constricting and dark walls of wound based defenses.
Truth!
I stumbled across your channel because I am having some relationship struggles due to patriarchal influence. I just want to say how much it means to me to find your videos. It is clear to me how much thought you put into your opinions & your message. Although of course there are many marginalized people who already have called out to be heard on these things, it is always such a relief to see someone with privilege step up and share difficult and controversial ideas for the betterment of humankind. This particular video about codependency brought many ideas to my attention I had not even remotely considered before. I hope I can use your videos as a tool/as a discussion starter within difficult relationships. Thank you very much for your efforts at being a kind and thoughtful person.
What I don't like is how considering the rising rent rates, the physical inability to work long hours without exhaustion and pain, and a number of unwanted responsibilities that don't even account for the harm some of them are doing to the environment... that we are expected to just hightail it out of a relationship and move on your own?
Not to mention the emotional pain of isolation bearing down on you...
But its also inconsiderate of how much our lives are shaped by pain and so much of addiction all comes from that.
But no... No consideration for the reality of any of that real stuff... Its just your codependency thats ruining your life.
Its simply not sustainable for our future to not look at the deeper issues and ride it all down to an individual being codependent as the problem...
THIS IS TRUTH, THANK YOU!!
You are straight forward and kind. I am enjoying my new find. Thank you ❤
🥰 New subscriber 🥰
I love this message overall, and it is a breath of fresh air. But can I please make as absolutely clear as possible “THIS IS NOT PURELY SOMETHING WOMEN GO THROUGH” and also that “THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT ABUSERS AREN’T ALWAYS TAKING SUBSTANCES”. Even though I admit to how much substance makes things worse, I have been with women who took no substances and purely got enough supply by constantly manipulating others which in equivalent was their drug of choice.
Certain men do this too btw.
I personally think the “Co-dependant” label is victim blaming and also the equivalent of shifting blame on a victim of because of them dressing themselves up. Abusers mirror victims and stalk them like any predator stalks prey. They can mimic a completely reasonable adult exchange to lower victims into a false feeling of thinking their predator feels and thinks just like the victim thinks and feels.
Really appreciate the video tho.
The word enable is overused. Empowering and enabling are different things.
Thanks for your Great videos, appreciate a wider perspective on these things!!!
Hey Chris! I'm really enjoying these videos. Thank you for making them. I have recently started attending Al-Anon meetings, more out of curiosity rather than a need for them. I have come to the conclusion that almost (if not all) people most likely have characteristics and behaviors that would be labeled as "codependent". However, as you spoke to, there are so many varying definitions of it. I have begun recommending everyone I know to attend Al-Anon at some point. It really is beneficial for all. In my opinion.
Again, thank you for making these videos.
Hi Mark. Thanks for the note and the support. I too have great respect for Al-Anon. Stay radical!
@@TheRadicalTherapist I have a question about you. Have you EVER attended Al a non and if you did for how long?
Great video & series, thank you!
Link to the Calderwood & Rajesparum article isn’t working, seems to be a pay for article, you may hve rights to publish however.
Wld you plz retry posting the link?
as someone who has been a long time member of the recovery community I just get so tired of hearing that codependency thrown around I understand the need for independence but it's almost like and maybe my view is biased because I'm in recovery but it seems like the idea of having a relationship with another person having a deep and meaningful connection is seen as a weakness and as codependent.
Listen to Bonnie Badenoch’s: the myth of self regulation. Very enlightening! We as human beings are designed for co regulation for optimal function
So good
Thank you for this video!
How do you explain that my whole life, I have had a string of irresponsible boyfriends who I have made excuses for, taken care of and cleared up their messes? How do you explain that for 20 years, I was constantly going to the doctor for depression and fatigue that was unresponsive to treatment? How do you explain that I had no idea that all my helpfulness was excessive until I learned about codependency? How do you explain that my depression and fatigue finally went away for the first time in my life once I stopped feeling obligated to take care of everyone's problems for them?
BPD. Y'all love fuckboys and badboys. If you actually got a healthy Man, you'd ruin him, project your exes on him. You don't know how to function in normal relationships.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza But helpless guys who cry and panic at the sight of adult responsibilities are exactly the opposite of "bad boys"?
I only had one relationship until my husband, never had sex until my husband, never did drugs ever, people always said I was so calm and neutral about problems my friends/family were having... this was also said to me by family and room mates. I even became kind of a loner after I was sexually assaulted in college. I’m not “addicted” to toxic people. I usually try to avoid them. And after I discovered my husband had been lying to me since the beginning of our relationship, I was called codependent by a therapist I sought out after all of my husband’s lies came to light... simply because I was mad that he lied and manipulated me for 7 years. And having low self esteem and not wanting to have sex with him after him telling me he prefers other women sexually and betrayed my trust. I am not the “caretaker” type, I was a strong independent woman before my husband, the type that would kick a guy to the curb if he acted like he wasn’t interested in me for who I am... and I even I wound up with someone who emotionally abused me for years and I didn’t even realize it until his house of cards came crashing down on both of us. My therapist can shove it if she thinks that I enabled him to deceive me or purposefully chose him because I subconsciously knew he was a manipulator. My first instinct when I found out who my husband really is was to run as fast as I could, but everyone kept telling me to stay, to forgive, think of the kids, blah blah blah. I listened, and now I have PTSD from feeling trapped in a relationship with a person like him. I’m not codependent, I was manipulated and then destroyed by my husband and society.
You are free to choose to pathoogise yourself and if that helps, who has the right to argue? Glad it appears to have helped. For many others, it is not helpful to pathologise their behaviour. Another perspective you could choose in that situation is to see it from a particular feminist analysis - that you internalised the stereotypic gender role ascribed by the patriarchal system all of us reside in. That is, to my mind, the deeper analysis. You are not the problem. But we all have a responsibility to root out the real problem. Everything in your story, and I mean everything, is a textbook description of the toxic effects of living in (and unconsciously subscribing to) the patriarchal system that oppresses us all, female and male alike - albeit in different ways....the substance abusing males are not truly free and flourishing in this system either...hence the substance abuse. I'm not at all surprised your depression and fatigue went away for the first time once you stopped feeling obligated to take care of everyone's problems! That would be the prescription from a feminist point of view, and no pathologising/diseasifying of you would have been necessary.
@@cord11ful I wish I could like your post a hundred times.
Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!
Souns a bit like a simp.
Gah! I hate this research. It supports the continuing of behaviors that are self destructive!! To label codependency as an attack on women is ridiculous. Codependency goes far beyond living with an addict. The people behind this idea had an agenda. Pathologizing helping behaviors - Puh-lease!