Who REALLY Wrote the Tao of Jeet Kune Do? Dr. James Bishop | The Kung Fu Genius Podcast #95
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Alright peeps, on this 95th episode of the Kung Fu Genius Podcast, the KFG (aka Alex Richter) will be discussing who really wrote the Tao of Jeet Kune Do with Bruce Lee author and expert Dr. James Bishop. Let’s get to it!
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Maybe I'll go & visit one of my Sifu 's.
I highly, highly recommend any Bruce Lee fan to seek out the book, "Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do", by Jesse Glover. Very cool insight on Bruce in his day to day life, as Jesse was one of Bruce's top tier students and close friends at the time. A lot of gems on his fights in Seattle and Oakland as well. The book is unfortunately very hard to find now in online shops now though.
I agree that’s one of the best books, that’s why I keep mine safe and sound!
@@TheKungFuGenius dang, you got a physical copy from Sifu Yohann I'm guessing?
No, I ordered all of Jesse’s books from Jesse in the 90’s.
@@TheKungFuGeniusamaze-balls!
I have been searching that book too. Can't seem to find it at the affordable price.
This episode is especially great to me because my dad was an amateur boxer as one onfyhe things I have from him is Edwin Hasslets Boxing Book hardcover 1st edition that he gave to me literally when I was 5 years old…and when I got into JKD because I basically idolized Bruce Lee
As a 7 year old until now- I knew Bruce drew heavily from this book, Krishna turn, savate and fencing, some catch wrestling stuff… and these were his NOTES….never really meant to be published. It just shows how prolific a thinker he was as a young 30 year old….as Dan Inosanto said-he was FAR ahead of his time as far as fighting it is conferenced-at least 50 years-and with the advent of MMA…time has proven that he was RIGHT.
This episode did two things for me: I think it's your best "academic" interview, and this convinced me to become a Patreon supporter.
Nicely done. You're a good interviewer.
Absolutely spot on with studying Jun Fan/JKD as a whole and moving on so to speak. Sifu Vunak (a direct Inosanto student) moving on really and calling what he teaches PFS and RAT system... and even Sifu Mike Gittleson (a direct Ted Wong student), not even really wanting to call what he teaches JKD but just "punchy punchy kicky kicky" haha. I'm a full instructor under Vu and I train with Mike every week myself, and it's these mindsets that really set them apart from the arguments and drama that is now the "JKD" community for sure! Love this!
Thanks for that! Great insight.
…I wanted to add a photo of this book excerpt, but cannot add a pic to this discussion, so I chose to ‘scan text’ w/ my older iPhone: “He spoke good English at the time but writing themes of the kind that teachers assign are not easy for students who come from another background. It just doesn't click with them. And so I more or less let Bruce write what he wanted that first quarter. He was quite home-sick, so I got these descriptions of Hong Kong. I'm pretty sure that some of the things he gave me as themes must have been translations of Chinese poetry that he had studied or read or memorized in the past. And in fact I accused him once of doing that and he sort of laughed. He didn't admit it, but he didn't deny it, either.
In the second quarter, he launched out into a very ambitious piece of writing which was actually an explanation of the Tao philosophy. As you know, his work in kung fu was very closely related to his spiritual ideas. So he wrote this almost book-length thing about the whole philosophy of Lao-tza, the founder. That was very interesting. I must say that I learned a lot from it.” -Margaret Walters, one of Bruce’s professors at University of Washington. -Her quote taken from Linda Lee’s “Bruce Lee: The Man Only I Knew”
Thank You 🙏🏼💐🎆,
Jessica Pita
This is really helpful and a very good find. Thank you for posting this. I have that book and I’m going to check it again.
One benefit found in Bruce Lee's notes is his outlining of what are the physical 'testing' or 'examples,' if you will, of Jiddu krishnamutri's philosophy as the "truth is pathless" and the idea of Observer is the Observed (which in modern times has an analog in particle physics).
We know that Guru Insanto has been quoted as stating in a filmed interview that, paraphrased, "bruce said he did not fight from the perspective of the fighter facing an opponent, but as an observer viewing himself as fighter and his opponent."
Its a perspective that is not often found in western nor eastern philosophy, let alone pugilistic pedagogy.
The closest we tend to get is the idea of "being aware" of one's opponent. That usually ends up being arguments about what one pays attention to in the opponent - from looking at the eyes, to focusing on the head, to watching the waist, or hips & etc. Basically, arguments about what is "field of vision." None really encompass the fighter him/herself.
As Krishnamurti posited that the "self" is unknowable but is only projection of memory and a construct, the only way to come close to being as a state of honest being was in the case of being the Observer. an observer does not analyze, but takes in what is before and about (around) them. It does not project a "self"
The "classical mess" having an analog in Krishnamurti's idea about the confusion of belief that make up most people's ideas of self, the outer world and the present. Projection.
It figures prominently in Lee's philosophy to adapt to rather than project onto opponents.
Jiddu is still in the wilds as far as general modern academic philosophical dialogues.
Part of the problem to me is that Krishnamurtii used a dialectic style approach as a diologue in his taped talks and writings, discussing to his conclusions rather then bullet pointed axioms (though axioms can be derived from what he stated) which really requires a listener to have a grasp on things like informal logic.
Though many may have studied Plato's claims about Socrate's use of such idioms for discussing philosophy, the academic reality for students is pretty much one of rote memorization and appeal to authority in peer review (what who and who said, rather to even get to the root of things like epistemology and reason itself).
For most readers and listeners the exercise of those live taped events and published transcriptions was one more of a demonstration of the self projections of the audience members --those asking the questions of him, than an audience actually grasping the concepts -- their projections got in the way, much like the "precepts" of a karate, or kung fu or, other art more often than not will get in their way. I often wonder if that was Krinshamurti's intent. We are shown were the standard "way" fails.
In Krishnamurti's case, after his death, many of his followers tried to turn him into a sage, or god, much like what happened to both Lee and Gandhi.
I am of the opinion that Krishnamurti foresaw this and even attempted to prevent it by one particular late talk in hs life to his followers that referring to after his death, paraphrased, "this energy , this being, that is (him} will no longer be and not come back. And no other will be the inheritor."
He was merely the finger pointing, so to speak.
excellent interview again. Thanks for sharing.
It recently occurred to me that the Tao is really an example of a commonplace book. This practice goes back to ancient times and was still being taught in the early twentieth century and there are many surviving examples from historical figures. As a philosophy student, Bruce may have been familiar with the technique which was used by many famous philosophers.
But Bruce never wrote these notes to be a book.
@@TheKungFuGenius No, I realise that. A commonplace book is not a book as such, it's more like a scrapbook or diary, and not intended to be read by others - it doesn't even need to be in a single volume, it could be scattered across dozens of files or boxes. It was once a well established pedagogical method that was taught at Harvard and Oxford, Virginia Woolf's commonplace book, for example, consisted largely of other people's poetry mixed in with variations and additional verses written by herself. I could be completely wrong of course, it may be totally coincidental that the Tao appears to be a commonplace book - but what Bruce was doing does make perfect sense when viewed from this perspective and it seems plausible that Bruce would be familiar with the method either from his philosophical studies or from the self-help books he used to read.
@@pietrobembo true, and I myself have kept such notebooks/journals of quotes I have found valuable since I was in high school. That is the part that speaks to Bruce Lee's intelligence and love of learning and personal growth.
He's the guy on the Thriller video with the popcorn. Im the totally random guitarist on Beat It who shows up and plays a sick guitar solo.
Hi Alex, thanks for another interesting episode. The addition of a scholars point of view on Bruce Lee, his philosophy, notes, writings, students etc. offer an unsual take with trying to implement empirical evidence to support their individual hyphothesis, interpretations and general theories. Regular martial arts people tend to come more from the physical side of things. While all reference source books are great for historical reference it is not the origin or source that made JKD unique but the particular ways it was studied and applied. Knowing where and when Bruce Lee bought the book from author xy and took notes from page 34 is great for accurate historical reference but still knowing what to do "the process" with the material makes the repeatable physical martial arts manifestion. The difference between the recipe ingredient list and the actual cooking skills.
While it is favorable that non martial arts people offer their own expert view, although it is evident that their conclusions and understanding were often formed in their respective field of expertise. Even though these interesting notes can add new dimension and context they still are no substitute to physcial training but nevertheless can be a great learning companion for the students understanding.
Well said.
I am a Bruce Lee fan from the 1970s but Dr. Bishop has confirmed things that I thought about Bruce’s philosophy. I had already read books on Zen, Taoism, and Krishna Murti by the time I was exposed to Bruce’s philosophy and thought that he reworked those ideas and applied them to his ideas on martial arts.
The words “walk on” originally came from a book by the author Christmas Humphreys. I honor the memory of Bruce Lee but I don’t deify him. I think Mathew Polly’s biography of Bruce is the best book ever written on him. I look forward to reading Dr. Bishop’s book. KFG is the best podcast of its kind! ☯️✊️
Excuse my pedantry, but it's Jiddu Krishnamurti, not Krishna Murti.
@@mikecombe7130 you are correct. I was too quick to reply; I should have looked at one of his books to get the proper name right. Thanks for the correction.
Great points. Even Krishnamurti has been described as simply restating the same ideas seen in Zen Buddhism.
As for "walk on", it was featured in a book of that title by Christmas Humphreys, and that may well have been where Bruce Lee discovered it. But it is a Zen Buddhist saying that predates Humphreys, and it can also be found in other books on Zen that Bruce Lee owned.
Great topic and now I want the book.
Your drug letters video is now up over 82K views. That's close to Beerdy territory.
Dr. James Bishop’s book proved to me that Bruce Lee indeed had practiced what he preached. He was always learning ways to improve himself as a better martial artist. Dr. Bishop’s book helped me understand why Bruce Lee fought the way he did and why he was so admired by so many. Your interview with Dr. Bishop was very insightful. Admittedly, while watching your video I had to remind myself that Bruce Lee had nothing to do with the actual publication of the original book: Tao of Jeet Kune Do. As to the idea of whether or not he was going to do it would be speculative. Regardless of the controversy this new book might have caused, Bruce Lee was considered by many to be one of the best martial artists (and still is) at the time. Thank you for posting and sharing this.
The Tao of Jeet kune Do was certainly written by Bruce Lee.
I have met and have had a private conversation with both Dan Inosanto and Ted Wong. About a number of things. And They both confirmed that what’s in the book was certainly Bruce Lee’s thoughts
It’s 98% other sources (they are his notes after all, based on the books he was reading). I can point the original source material and show you where he verbatim copied these things in his notes. They were not meant for public release, that was just unfortunately done after his death. James Bishop is an expert in this topic and he’s done more than just talk to a few people who knew Bruce Lee. You can actually trace the origin of these notes to the books Lee was reading at the time. I’ve bought a large portion of these books in the same edition Bruce Lee would’ve owned at great expense and can show you where he just copied and word for word into his notes or occasionally changed Zen to JKD or similar.
And this has been known for many many years, it’s not a matter of opinion anymore. The consensus of scholars is that the T of JKD are notes from other books.
I like almost off of what James Bishop said and while Bruce own process become closed when he died, but his art is designed to be an open system. so name should stay the same. The trouble is when people just mix arts and add bits to their main art and call it jkd
I’ve always felt the same regarding Tao originality; however many people can quote, but few have the totality of embodiment as Bruce Lee did. That’s is the difference between Bruce and most everyone else.
Did not expect to hear about Eric Hoffer on the KFG Podcast on a JKD topic. Very pleasantly surprised.
Maybe on the next episode, you can discuss Milton Friedman’s opinion on how the free market in Hong Kong should be the standard for the world😊
Isn't that the beauty of making these discoveries public? It leads the person who learns about them to a great many other amazing minds.
Great Episode, Great Interview. Thanks for posting.
Yes ....I'm really enjoying this ! Im a musician who started discovering.the connection btw martial arts and musicianship....
Glad you enjoy it!
Good video. Thanks. It's interesting knowing an academic is focusing on Bruce Lee . It is interesting hearing his approach to his writings, his research methods, and his conclusions. I suspect Dr. Bishop enjoyed your conversation given your interest in the subject, your own research and knowledge, and your openness in learning Bruce Lee beyond the myth. Now off to his web site. Thanks again.
I did enjoy it. It is refreshing to have a conversation with a fan of Bruce Lee who can approach the subject objectively.
I’ve watched this three times. James super cool to have you on the KFG. Also appreciate your meaningful many occupations and the impact you make. Really interesting details.
Thank you for the kind words. It was a pleasure to be a guest on the show.
@@jamesbishop3595 olá, torcendo pela versão digital do livro em 2023 🙏🏻
@@2024Dolcezza there will be one, for sure.
To be honest, these issues extend to religion. People still debate the thoughts of Jesus, Muhammad and Buddha
Absolutely, the parallels are clear.
Which is exactly what Krishnamurti railed against. While simplified, Bruce basically took a lot of Krishnamurti's quotes about religion, politics, nationality, etc, and applied them to martial arts.
And I have explored those parallels in previous writings, including in my 2004 book on Bruce Lee, "Dynamic Becoming". Seeing the way that Bruce's ideas and martial art were promoted by his direct students, and the manner in which they came to conflicting interpretations of those teachings, and their arguments that different sects may represent some form of apostasy, can teach us a little about early Christianity.
Kfg u need to get John little back again
The interview videos are always good. Keep it up. Great interesting topic.
Oh shh.. just got home. Gonna peep dis fam. ❤
This is the good stuff. Very informative and educational. I don’t have a dog in the JKD fight so look at it differently than some of the others one here. Love it.
7:14 This is heated. I’m listening on the edge of my seat. I bet LINDA is on. ✅🐉
Hello Alex my name is Alex as well, love your channel and love the accurate information you take the time to gather especially about Bruce Lee, im nor master of martial arts but ive studied for a small time and bruce was my first motivator when I was 9 im now 53, what I want to say is I hold Sifu Lee in the highest regards and what he contributed to the martial arts and with that being said I knew and have always know that be quoted many many upon many sayings from other philosophies and different cultures I for one never though everything that came out of his mouth was or wer his own words but what I want everyone to understand is that bruce gave those quotes much more meaning and he reached millions of millions even to this day, he was and is an Incredible human being but like all of us with flaws. Have a great day KFG looking forward tl being a patreon thanks for your continued work in the martial arts world
Thank you! Much appreciated!
“One day I’ll be the father of mixed martial arts” - Lee Jun-Fan
Haha
Dr Bishop has written the most important book on Bruce Lee since Matthew Polly’s Lee biography. Those two are unparalleled and definitive works.
If only Polly could update his book to include the drug letters
@@TheKungFuGenius and James’ work too.
Very well done KFG! Very interesting topic and yes, all put together clearing lots of questions about JKD in general. I cannot wait to read Dr. Bishop's book. As you noted, at this base and direct level -- this observation can be applied to most arenas in life. Crystalized state happens at end of life. No one, no other living being just takes over for another like a football pitch and continue it as THE Way... In fact, even if the original being is still alive, I feel you cannot do that either. Everyone, is unique in their ways, their expressions, interpretations, there... everything. To talk for others is fallacy. One can be inspired by, then once consumed by the self -- it takes on that person's properties period. As much as the ways of JKD have and are a big part of me, I call what I do Reactive Force to not miscredit or credit incorrectly. On spot points here and this direct level of questioning 'Source' applies to so much and most of life. I feel any source is the seed of inspiration and one's own understanding, and it grows from there. And in terms of "concepts" is not any thought ingested, then becomes one's concept... Peace KFG and thank you again for great insight.
Thank you, Byron.
There is another youtube channel called Viking Samurai and focuses on things martial arts and primarily martial arts movies. Great channel. Ever thing of interviewing Viking Samurai or being interviewed by him. You guys would definitely hit it off. Both great channels and hosts.
I know him, we chat on IG!
Great video!!
Nice episode, I still remember how dedicated I was when I first started training. I lived, breathed and bleed kung fu. So I picked up every book I could and would write down every wing tsun movement as well as learning about the history and lineage. Interesting, I gained a bit of insight from reading tao of kung fu while training, but felt a disconnect with tao of jeet kun do.
James Bishop is one of the most prominent writers in the field of Bruce Lee’s thought and with good reason: he has a profound grasp of the depth of Bruce Lee’s ideas, and what they mean, into a spectrum that extends beyond the martial arts. - John Little
“Many have written about Bruce Lee, but few as eloquently as James Bishop. James not only espouses the principles of Bruce Lee’s philosophy, he extols them in his actions.” - Andrew Kimura
@@axelstone3131 Mr Bishop s homepage. But of course you have to chance to ask Little himself about it. He has a channel here on YT. Type in the searchbox "Bruce Lee Game of Death Story" and you find his channel.
@@axelstone3131 Sure i know what you mean. Its no problem. But at least the quote from Little seems to be true. Ive found an other video of Bishop here on YT, and you can hear LIttle's voice in the beginning. So it seems they are cool with each other.
@@axelstone3131 I agree with you; Bishop seems like a real jerk.
Super interesting discussion!
Great show. Love this content. I have a question for your next Q&A if it hasn't been answered before but I'm curious what your thoughts as an instructor are on what type of people should consider learning wing chun physically or that you would politely discourage or refuse. Is there an age or size (i get anyone with the heart or drive to learn is going to be the real decider) but say a 40 year old or 450lb guy walks in interested in being trained, do you treat them like any potential student or is there a limit where you get real and tell them it's probably not going to work or be possible for them and refer them maybe to a different art for self defense/health/etc? Thanks!
Great interview Alex, very interesting.
Great show!
A very enjoyable episode lots of info.No hot nonsense,funny really no Dre either.Is there a link..........?
Again ..for the real adult Bruce nurds so good stuff ...
YO SIFU, THE LINK I SENT U TO WATCH WAS NONE OTHER THAN DR. JAMES BISHOP! I WAS LIKE TRUST ME, THIS MAN'S INSIGHT WAS NEXT LEVEL AND TO MY SURPRISE U HAVE HIM AS YOUR GUEST, LOL. UR AS MUCH OF A BRUCE LEE FAN AS I AM, IT'S WHY RECOMMENDED DR. BISHOP TO U, OR ELSE I WOULDN'T BOTHER, HE BOUGHT IN A NEW WRINKLE TO THE GAME THAT'S DEFINITIVE ON WHAT JKD IS ONCE AND FOR ALL. THE TRUTH JUST IS, ACCEPT IT AND WE ALL STEAL KNOWLEDGE IN SOME FORM OR ANOTHER AND NOTHING CHANGES HOW I VIEW BRUCE LEE. AT THE END OF THE DAY BRUCE LEE WAS A BAD ASS AND REAL MARTIAL ARTISTS TOOK HIM SERIOUSLY OF THE DAY AND I AM A JKD GUY AND OF COURSE, I HAVE MY OWN WAY. NEXT TIME SIFU, WATCH MY VIDEOS, I WON'T BULLSHIT U, I WAS TRYING TO PUT U ON TO DR. JAMES BISHOP.
I didn’t see your link because you posted it as a response to another comment and I don’t get notifications. Second, I generally don’t rush to watch videos people post in comments, and WRITING COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS LESSENS CREDIBILITY. I get bombarded with people asking me to watch stuff every day, if I did that, I would have no time to do any work.
@@TheKungFuGenius I kno, that's what u told me on the live chat on ya pre recorded vid, U KNO SIFU I HAD EXPLAINED TO U ABOUT MY INFAMOUS CAPITAL LETTERS, I GET A KICK OUT OF PPLS REACTIONS ON SOCIAL MEDIA LOL, they think I'm yelling when I'm actually WHISPERING 🤔
Thank you for the kind words.
I got to get that book!!
Awesome episode as always KFG crew
How does this book relate to the other half of his notes published jeet kune do bruce comments on the martial way?
As I have already begun my research into "Commentaries on the Martial Way", I can tell you it is fairing no better. Even the poetry at the end of the book is plagiarized.
@@jamesbishop3595
Thanks for the the reply
I honestly believe u have to view Bruce's notes as a message just get the message
18:14 No.. that’s not why. It is an OPEN SYSTEM. The curriculum is there if you need to draw from it. But honestly, we strip a lot of that down. It’s all about SMART TOOLS. Bruce always believed in the individual. So little details wouldn’t matter to him. He’d wanna see what you can do in real combat.
Great and interesting discussion. Talking about Bruce lee can lead to many ways...and i'm not talking about any letters. 😇👍🏼
PS: There was no need for dr dryson.😂
21:10 Again.. it isn’t an art that’s like “OK WE HAVE 10 moves n here’s how we block. Or the arts that have too much stuff. It is a method of timing. There are principles. Very smart tact. That’s JKD. Not what actual technique you use. We have methods. ❤
I really like the idea of this book. However, I wanted to add some context to your guest’s remark about Bruce ‘committing plagiarism’ while at University…
Happy Thanksgiving! Very interesting hearing Dr. Bishop's thoughts about properly attributing martial arts techniques to their source styles. As you know, most (if not all martial arts) are a synthesis/modification of other, existing styles (Wing Chun and Karate being derived from White Crane, Hung Gar from Tiger & Crane, Choy Li Fut from 3 different styles, and everyone from Long Fist, etc.) Do you have any supplemental thoughts about when a technique can start to be known as fully-integrated into the corpus of a style?
Separately, while many critiques of Bruce Lee (or of JKD or Kung Fu) are absolutely provided in good-faith, I'm also noticing a bit of more cavalier, "Team America" style Sinophobia as well due to geopolitics or personal prejudice. Have you noticed this on your end also, and is this something you've seen the Kung Fu community addressing/calling out?
A technique can be fully-integrated into the corpus of a style, in my opinion, when it can be demonstrated to be effective and congruent with the overall philosophy of a style. That does not address, however, the question of who is authorized to make changes to a style. For me the question is not whether these things I have investigated are incorporated into Jeet Kune Do; I accept that they are. The issue I take is with the practice of giving Bruce Lee credit for other people's work. You can incorporate and acknowledge at the same time - there is no reason why you shouldn't.
I have seen sinophobia in criticisms of Bruce Lee, absolutely. I feel that Tarantino's perspective on Bruce Lee, for instance, smacked of racism. I think some of the criticisms of Bruce Lee leveled by his California peers in his lifetime also could be seen as racist.
@@jamesbishop3595 thank you for your thoughtful response, Dr. Bishop!
It is the most beautiful style the Praying Mantis in my opinion!!especially the TAM TUI SYSTEM! In would have been nice to see it in GAME OF DEATH!!
I still have my copy, ordered in 1975, from O'Hara Publications in Burbank California. I visited their store once, and they had older Black Belt Magazine, Karate Iluustrated issues and lots of books for sale...back then a magazine was what??? $1.25 or $1.75???? Books were $5-$7...
By the way, KFG... I have the Wing Chun Illustrated with you on the cover...
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
You 2 better sleep with one eye open for now on 😂
Watching this made me realize that Bruce is the Robin Williams of martial arts. Wait…what? Here’s the thing: From what I’ve heard, Williams was a notorious joke thief, where comics would refuse to go on for fear of him stealing their shit or he’d write them checks after his set for having just stolen their shit. They said he didn’t do it maliciously or for lack of talent; it was because his unstructured, rapid-fire approach necessitated him pulling stuff out of his ass, not all of it original and improvised as most people believe. Yet unlike known plagiarists like Carlos Mencia or Dane Cook, you don’t hear a lot of shade, if any, being thrown his way. Why? Because, like Bruce, people LOVE Robin Williams. Because, like Bruce, he made the stuff he “borrowed” seem like his own. Because, like Bruce, if you start talking what is perceived as smack by others they make YOU look bad. So am I surprised or disappointed that 90% or more of Bruce’s writing can be attributed to other sources? Not at all. The fact that he was able to pull quotes and passages from such a wide variety of books, many of them unrelated to martial arts, then unify and modify them into an approach to fighting, training, and thinking that continues to resonate today and really does seem to come from the mind of one man is, to me, remarkable. It would be like handing someone a bunch of books on cooking, agriculture, architecture, and business and telling them to come up with a chain of restaurants and schools with a revolutionary approach to fusion cooking. Easier said than done.
As for Tarantino, what a dog he is forging fake drug letters on Bruce, LOL. Awesome rumor. As for Linda perjuring herself to get insurance money? Hey, contrary to what one might think given his success, her husband didn’t have a lot of money in the bank and she had two kids to raise on her own-I’D have lied too to take care of them, and I’m pretty sure she’s not the first person to do that. Hell, given the amount of TMZ-level bad press he got from the media, Linda coming clean about his drug use and abuse might have “tainted” his image early on and we wouldn’t be talking about him like we are today. Who knows? For myself, the information provides the final piece in the puzzle of his death and makes the Little Dragon that much more human to me. Does it make me admire him less? No. If anything, knowing what he achieved in spite of his drug use makes me admire him even more.
I think to compare Bruce to Williams and Mencia is a stretch too far.
@@TheKungFuGenius Goddammit, Alex, I made what I thought what was an interesting, insightful, original analogy and you shit all over it with one sentence. I…I…I’m gonna go crawl under my bedsheets and cry now…bye.
@@randalwung8715 that is actually not a bad analogy. Notice what can be learned from the comparison, specifically, that people don't like their work being lifted uncredited by another person.
Also, I can't help but to think of the common excuse-making by Bruce Lee fans for these misattributed quotes. I frequently see fallacious arguments like, "Nothing is original anyway" or "the original authors should be excited that Bruce Lee gave their ideas exposure." I could see the same arguments being made to defend Williams and Mencia.
Isn’t the Tao of Jeet Kune Do a book that was put together using several of Bruce’s personal notes?, so therefore Bruce really didn’t write the book! I feel if he really wrote it, it would have been a different book because it would have been more personal!
The book was originally sold as being Bruce Lee’s original writings when it first came out in the mid 70s. The estate has barely cleared the record since.
Thank you Sifu Ush! I have been a martial artist since 1962 I was 7 years old at the time and I have kept at ever since. I have been a Bruce Lee fan since he first appeared on the Green Hornet, I have also trained with Dan Inosanto and Larry Hartsell when they came to New Jersey to give seminars, I really enjoy watching your RUclips channel you really know your stuff! Much love and respect! I wish you and your family a very merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
And this is a message for all JKD instructors which is also a question:
I have a copy of Bruces personal note about his fight with Nakachi Yoichi. Sifu Alex, you once stated in the podcast with John Little it was 1961. Bruce noted in his diary the fight took place on November 1st, 1960, a tuesday. But this is no critic on you i just wanted to mention it.
November 1st, 1960, YMCA in Seattle:
Bruce LEE Jun fan:
Age: 19 (almost 20)
Style: Wing Chun / Ving Tsun (teached by Yip Man and Wong Shun leung)
NAKACHI Yoichi:
Age: 27 or 28, most probably 28 because the fight was very late in the year, and he was born 1932.
Style: Judo and Karate, Lee wrote in his diary he was black belt Karate and 2nd degree black belt Judo.
Result:
Lee defeated him in 11 seconds, fractured his skull and the guy was out for a while.
Witnesses: 1) Lee; 2) Nakachi; 3) Ed Hart; 4) Jesse Glover; 5) Howard Hall, 6) Masafusa Kimura (japanese exchange student); 7) an other japanese exchange student but his name is unknown.
7 people from which 6 are identified by name.
If Bruce s fighting style which was based at that time only on Wing Chun an a bit of fencing footwork, and if it was so useless like JKD people always claim, how was it possible he defeated Nakachi so fast and so devastating?
PS:
Linda Lee Cadwell was exposed now many times as PATHOLOGIGAL LIAR!!! She lied so often, and only becasue she and the Estate claimed Bruce found the whole WC not good after his fight in late 1964 against this coward Wong Jack man, the runner who run away like Speey Gonzalz or the Road Runner while Bruce was the Coyotee, doesnt make it true!
Fact is: There was one witness of the Jack man fight who never gets reported. James Lee (chinese name: Lee Yimm).
And contrary to the Estate s version, Yimm never made any claims that Bruce was so done after the Jack man fight, he was primary disappointed that his stamina was so lowsy, so he began to go running etc., make his cardio vascular better, and of course added Boxing punches and hooks.
But this doesnt mean he threw WC completely in the trash can. WC isnt just trapping or chain punching.
Is the quote Using no way as way from Bruce Lee?
“Using no way as a way, having no limitation as limitation.” ― Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune Do
As you know it was Gilbert Johnson that put it together
Yes, and, in my book, I have a biography on Gilbert Johnson and the story of how he came to edit the Tao of Jeet Kune Do.
Fuhok Bruce Lee! "BUTT, Body Undeniably Thy Temple, be like Wood, Earth, Metal and Fire cause I am Water."
Is it just me or does it seem like the author didn’t really understand the martial art? (In regards to the death of JKD)
Not sure what you mean, but it’s a standard cognitive bias to assume that people with a different viewpoint than ourselves don’t understand something. Maybe we are the one’s missing something or (more likely) filtering everything through our narrow worldview. Remove the judgement and you might learn something.
In other words, the world is not obligated to agree with us.
Well, we all get inspiration from somewhere. 2 cooks can have the same spices and ingredients available. But one dish can be bad, and the other dish wonderful.
It's not about plagiarism.
Absorb what is useful and discard what is not, and finally make it your own.
@@axelstone3131 The truth is out there, just pick and choose 😅
When an estate takes personal notes (not meant for publication) from the deceased and turns them into a publication for sale without quoting sources and claiming it as an original work then… it’s textbook plagiarism. Don’t confuse the inspiration Bruce took (and gave) with the law.
@@TheKungFuGenius the Lee estate probably didn't know about it, maybe a foreword in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do explaining that Bruce took inspiration from diverse unknown sources would have helped. And also this was released almost 50 years ago and they probably won't bother with an updated or revised edition.
Soon we can plug a cable in our necks and say.... I know Kung Fu like in the matrix 🤣 and nobody will ever know what the source material is at all.
@@axelstone3131 no, Mao Tse Tung said it. Bruce Lee found it quoted on page 55 of his copy of the Samuel B. Griffith translation of Sun Tzu's "Art of War".
@@raywongchi If you read my book you will learn that they were made aware of it, how they were made aware of it, and how they chose to ignore it when it became clear that it was a big problem.
KFG always bringing it with the questions that old school heads like me -I’m 50) wanna know. You’re the SOURCE brother.
Thank you!
Hope you'll do a feature on this new theory that drinking to much water was behind Bruce Lee's death
It’s a bogus theory
@@TheKungFuGenius Yeah seems pretty ludicrous tbh !
@@TheKungFuGenius the only credence I will give to this theory is that it was developed by actual medical professionals with the training and experience to legitimately make those assessments, and not the work of amateurs with no legitimate training to be making such judgments. But I also don't agree with their conclusions.
They found a compound in the asperin he took thag was really common use in his time. (Not the asperin itself) That was the cause of his death. The claim was on that national geographic episode exploring bruce lees death that had robert lee in it.
Oh, and yeah they also explored popular ones
A video on how to say we've studied Bruce Lee and JKD history but, don't understand Bruce Lee and JKD. I don't think I've ever heard 2 people talk with speech of so much understanding but still dance around actually understanding. Mind you I've studied multiple different arts, not had a master to instruct into core JKD but self study and research into JKD and Bruce Lee however still objective and open. Just wow it's really simple guys it's not that hard
As a non-JKD guy, I’m struggling to care when someone misses the point of a video and decides to insert the message they would’ve said no matter what the video was about.
@TheKungFuGenius I'm not specifically a JKD guy, however understanding Bruce's meaning behind what he did and his philosophy is not hard. I understood both sides of the from the discussion. I will even say I don't believe the people between those on the core side of JKD and the Concept side are right in the spirit of what he intended just for the sheer argument. But, I will say some of you and your guests finalizing statements on certain topics did certainly show pretty good misunderstanding. I understand your response, hecklers can be troublesome, but my critique is backed up by more than what a heckler would provide. No single martial artist is a master or knows all, only option is to keep studying.
@oni_takeo3547 I pray to Vishnu to have your omniscience on a topic that I am “not really” into. I wonder why JKD practitioners the world over argue about the nature of JKD when they could just ask you. Problem solved guys!
@TheKungFuGenius it's not omniscience, more just common ground sense. Bruce explains it plain as day. Problem is people try to add extra to a simple topic like always. Appreciate the insult know it all though. Very much appreciated sir, best endeavors of your studies as a martial artist.
@oni_takeo3547 i thought as you did, when i was 18. Then I read all the unpublished notes, had multiple conversations with a number of his students, and translated his Chinese notes. The more you learn, the less sure you are of anything. The more you’re confident you know, the more ignorant you generally are on a topic. See Dunning-Kruger effect.
As Aristotle is quoted: "The more you know, the more you know you don't know."
Or Bukowski (not calling YOU stupid FYI): The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
Or to put it another way: your default setting on your personal confidence in the understanding of the internal thoughts, motivations, and intentions of an American born, Hong Kong-raised Chinese man that you’ve never met, based on what he wrote in his publicly published notes (which were mostly quotes from other books) should be agnosticism or at the very least doubt.
But like I said, I’ll refer Bruce’s remaining living students to consult “oni_takeo3537” on RUclips because he got it!
I don’t think we should be too hard on Bruce. He was simply applying philosophical ideologies to the art of fighting. Who cares if he adopted or adapted a few quotes and pictures from others along the way? Afterall, there’s very little truly original (just about every great rock song is based on the same music principles for example). I have to agree with the ridiculous amount of quotes on the internet wrongly attributed to Bruce, though. Madness! But as Bruce himself once said “Man who goes to bed with itchy bottom, wakes up with stinky finger” (or was that Confucius)?
“A few quotes or pictures”? 😂 90% of “Bruce Lee” material is other people’s content.
Hi sifu Alex didn’t the Estate, get threaten with legal action over it ?
I found no concrete evidence about that. It is possible. But my book does cover how this problem was first discovered and addressed.
At first I believe James Lee , called it a style , when I met bill Wallace in 85 I think he said they , were teaching j k d , as a style
10:44
Looking forward to this one.Ive got very high hopes!Don't let me down Mr KFG!
I hope you enjoyed it.
@@jamesbishop3595 I really did 🙏
All type of knowledge becomes "self " knowledge...
It is not easy being FAMOUS!! Drugs can ease the pain but the price!! You pay!!
55:01 You know.. that’s one way of looking at it. “It would have been nice if he had a chance to straighten up before he died. 😂depressing. Yikes. Then it was, “Linda Lee frauded 50 years ago.” 😮woah! Amazing !! 😂lol. Then it was “Bruce was on heavy drugs in his later days. “ another way of looking at it would be. ✅🐉What he was able to accomplish after passing away tragically was amazing. To be known n loved plus inspire all over the world ❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏💥💥💥
thats the most amount of times ive seen someone comment and not on a reply.... maybe u should be on the podcast
Just because you call it JKD doesn't make it JKD, nor is the case when one does not call it JKD although it's JKD. JKD is not a name or curriculum like "kung fu" is not limited to martial art or describes a quality.
Something that can be defined as anything, means nothing. This is how JKD people play tennis without the net.
@@TheKungFuGenius tennis without a net is not tennis. A better example is a poet that arrange words for it meaning, sound, and rhythm. The writing is a poem but the poet is the author. JKD is not the poem, it is the poet. If you take JKD out and we speak of self esteem. And I gave you numerous unrelated examples of my self esteem and how martial arts has impacted my self esteem. I am not talking about "self esteem", I am talking about "me". I hope that helps. Thank you for sharing the video.
Great episode, I learned so much, the truth shall set us free!
9:32 I’m not in any way close to Shannon Lee or any of the family. But I do have one source. I won’t name. But the person is believable. They were there. And they say that they went through a pain staking process to decide what to put in it. ❤🐉💥
Hell Sifu Alex, great interview. Question about the comments from Dr. James Bishop, If JKD is a dead art because Bruce Lee is dead does that now mean that Judo is dead? Gracie Jiu Jitsu is dead? Wing Chun is dead? To me this makes no sense. All arts are open arts, JKD is not dead, it continues to evolve.
The question is not whether JKD is dead, it’s the nature of whether it is an open or closed system. According to the writings of the founder, it seems pretty clear that it was most likely an open system for himself and a closed system for everyone else, but then again, he contradicts himself multiple times in his own writing. The Poteet letter is the clearest indication that he was not happy with “change” and mixing.
@@TheKungFuGenius Yes, during his lifetime only he would be able to change anything due to it being his way. Since he allowed 3 people to teach on his behalf and he never said (to my knowledge) stop teaching upon my death, shouldn’t the practitioners continue evolving under the guidance of his sanctioned instructors and theirs?
I know I’m beating a dead horse here but it’s fun to discuss this stuff.
As @TheKungFuGenius commented, I did not say that the art was dead. Far from it, it is very much alive. I said it unavoidably crystallized upon Bruce Lee's death. That doesn't mean there is no evolution, just that it shouldn't be called Jeet Kune Do because Bruce Lee is not here to make that judgment. And remember, that is just my opinion on the matter.
- Axel- Why would I spend an second of my life trying to convince someone I don’t know or care about? Let people have their opinions, there’s no harm in that.
Don't listen to those Brice Lee quotes from those who didn't actually hear him. In the late 50s, I met Bruce Lee on a ship heading to America. He was always moving, punching at any hard metal walls he can find on the ship. He was already so strong. This is what he told me then, "The man with $100 in his pocket can worth more than the man with $100 millions".
So just out of curiosity, do you know you’re lying and you’re just saying this because you find it entertaining? Or are you so far gone that you actually believe the story really happened? Asking for a friend.
And since this whole thing here is about sources:
“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”
Bruce haters from the MMA community:
"He stole that quote from Miyamoto Musashi."
Wrong! The original water quote comes from Laozi aka Lao Tze aka Lau Tzu s writing "Tao Te Ching".
Both Musashi and Bruce took it from him.
"The principle of Judo is like the nature of water. Water flows to a balanced level. It has no shape of its own but moulds itself to the receptacle that contains it. Its surge is irresistible and it permeates everything. It has existed and will exist as long as time and space. When heated to the state of steam it is invisible, but has enough power to split the earth itself. When frozen it crystallizes into a mighty rock. Its services are boundless and its uses endless. First it is turbulent like the Niagara Falls, and then calm like a still pond, fearful like a torrent, and refreshing like a spring on a hot summer's day. So is the principle of Judo." - G. Koizumi, from the foreword to M. Feldenkrais' "Higher Judo: Ground Work", page vii.
@@jamesbishop3595 So besides Bruce and Musashi, Gunji took it too. But the original source for it is still Laozi (real name Li Er, Laozi means Old Master)
@@chrisbach1533 Yes, you are correct. The basic ideas of it are taken from the Tao Te Ching. But the quote I gave you is the model for Bruce Lee's statement.
First, I found this video podcast so interesting, and it was needed. Thank you for sharing this knowledge. All scientific discoveries hardly added 10% of knowledge to prior knowledge. It is a staircase principle. I am writing a book at this moment presenting my martial arts principles. Of course, I am a Bruce Lee fan and was greatly influenced by JKD principles, so I suggest people to read the Tao of JKD in my book. I knew about plagiarism before knowing about mister James Bishop work. This is why I feel it such an important analysis he made. Also, I did not want to be accused of plagiarism in my book, so I reference a lot. BUT let us be serious. Does a doctor in medicine cite his sources when he poses a diagnostic? No! Does a dancer cite his resources when he performs a ballet, even if many dancers were behind his or her dancing movements. Does Dr. Michio Kaku, Nobel Prize in theoretical physics, mention his sources when he gives a conference? No! But when you write a research paper or make a thesis in your master degree, you have to source, at least to a certain point when it is necessary not to confuse your ideas with what has been done. So, Bruce work is in between a university paper and a published book for entertainment and education. He did not need to quote all the time. But I truly believe you should give credit. I wrote my book in French first, and I still have about 100 pages out of 270 to translate in English. I am not a writer, so I do this in my free time. Furthermore, I will now mention Dr. James Bishop in my book, but also the reality I just spoke about. Again good podcast Kung Fu Genius and a great guest.
Thank you!
You are suggesting a false analogy; a diagnosis is not authorship, it is an assessment. And, in fact, to arrive at a diagnosis, they have to "cite" the specific diagnosis that is listed in the International Classification of Diseases (or ICD). They don't make up their own diagnosis; they match the symptomatology to the the description of a disease. So, a cancerous stomach tumor might be classified as "C16.2 Malignant Neoplasm of Body of Stomach". The medical doctor does not create that diagnosis - he cites it from the ICD. If you are to compare a doctor in medicine to Bruce Lee, the comparison would be in published work. When a medical doctor publishes, whether it is in an academic journal or in a technical book, I guarantee you they will be VERY DILIGENT in citing their sources. They will see that as a professional necessity and an ethical and moral imperative. They are, after all, professionals.
@@jamesbishop3595 I don't think so. Because if I recall, I said exactly what you just said, using other words. Read my comment again. I see no false analogies. Bruce was not making a scientific book destined to be under the scrutiny of a board of Doctorates or to be used by engineers, astrophysicists or biologists to increased scientific knowledge. But he did increase knowledge. And this compendium of ideas taken left and right was not done before him. Not until MMA came into play. And even MMA pretty much gave u on philosophy. I said Bruce's work was in between. A martial art is also an art form. If I make a sculpture, I don't need to mention all those that have influenced me in my work. Also, Bruce did not intend his work for academics, but for public use. I absolutely admit that he should have quoted his sources, at least the most influential one. With my University training, I have learned this. But doing a paper for a master degree is not the same as making an essay. An essay can go without much sourcing. But still, You may have been inspired by many in your chain of thought when writing that essay. An essay is much more of a free style of writing. In any cases, I think we agree that it is important to references as much as possible. Should it be only to respect authorship.
@@francoismorin8721 I don't think the sculpting analogy was a very good one, either. And having been a professional sculptor prior to becoming a psychotherapist and psychologist, I don't recall taking someone else's clay to make my own sculptures. In your analogy, it would be like taking the nose off of another sculptors piece of work to finish your own. Still seems wrong to me.
@@jamesbishop3595 See, I like your comparison better now of taking someone else's clay to finish your own work of art. A stronger image. There is something unethical about this. So can we feel there was something unethical about the way the Tao of Jeet Kune Do was published as an original work. But again, we must see how most intellectual construction are built. If am a USER of a smartphone, I do not really care about every inventor, science and engineers that made it possible for my phone to exist, I just want the coolest badass working cellphone that won't let me down. There is something similar with martial arts and technical knowledge in any field. Every day, we see the wonders of industrialized glass, but who knows which human discovered the process to begin with. When you go into any training, you attend school under the expertise of a teacher, you learn many things, and then receive a diploma saying to society that you should be competent. In research and high level of schooling, we do ask for reference to further the research, but mostly to prove that your thesis subject is something new that hasn't already been done somewhere else. Like discovering the lightbulb a second time. Bruce Lee was in the process of learning when he was reading his many books, He absorbed what was useful for his construction. The final result was JKD. So I do not believe he had to mention every teacher that inspired him, like when you go into a Dojo or Kwoon and learn from many different teachers, you do not have to mention all your sources to your students once you open your own school. Though, most people will mention the teachers that influenced them the most. For a final word, what bothers me the most and that came to light after your own work on the Tao of Jeet Kune DO, is that sometimes Bruce looked real smart, but that in fact he was just paraphrasing someone else. But when Bruce Lee goes into the explanation of who muscles and the nervous system act together, I know he learned that somewhere. In the book I am working on, when I go into a more scientific subject, I reference mostly to show what I am saying has been studied by legitimate sources. Like you said yourself, we do not know what the Tao of JKD would have looked like if Bruce Lee had published it himself. If he did publish like so, I believe we would have needed someone like you to point out to him his ethical mistake of not referencing or pretending to be his quotes without much even digesting them to make them his own in his own words. Because, after all, knowledge is always like digesting data to incorporate it to yourself to make it into an original expression.
You better have a Bloody good reason for making trouble or we will have to stop shipping apple bananas to NYC 🍌🍌🍌
It's Monday and KFG TIME!!! So, what am I supposed to do with this. I've never read TOJKD but it appears it was released at a time when there was this groundswell after Bruce Lee died to find whatever was relatable to Bruce Lee. Ok, this guy is saying Bruce plagiarized a lot of his "notes" in his writings. My question is does it diminish anything in his legacy?? I think not, so again what are we supposed to do with this and at the end of the day, if I can use your own words Sifu, "who gives a sh--"! LOL!! That's not plagiarism because I asked permission to use your phrase. Because it doesn't diminish who he was and what he accomplished and that's where my inspiration comes from in relation to Bruce Lee other than the martial arts and his movies. I mean no disrespect just thoughts on this. Great episode Alex!!
It shouldn't diminish his accomplishments, but it should diminish the belief that he is the source of all of these quotes, which is terribly unfair to the actual authors.
@@jamesbishop3595 ...but my other question is...did he say he ever say or is there proof he said was the author of those quotes or is he quoting quotes he used as inspirations for his philosophies??
@32:00 "Noooo...I got Passion(ate) mind from somewhere else completely" ....Now who's plagiarizing? 😏😏😉
Whataboutism at its finest
Apparently you missed the part where I made it clear that the name of "the Passionate Mind Institute" was in no way inspired by the title of Eric Hoffer's book, "A Passionate State of Mind". Also, you don't seem to have any real grasp on what constitutes plagiarism.
The soccer fans are worse than the Bruce lee fans !! They lose a game they can stampede you before you leave the stadium 🏟!
👍✌️
I agree with him!! But I do not want to beat a dead horse!! With the jkd world! It never ends!!
42:38 I teach JKD. We teach a pragmatic self defense version that gave up on Bruce Lee ways way back when I started. Using the GUA CHOY back of the hand is one. Another would be entering with the strong arm in the front. We shift in Wing Chun. No need to ever take a hard side stance. We face forward just about. What I meant by gave up on his stuff is. He wouldn’t want us doing traps and moves from the 60’s n 70’s. 😂trust me. I use and teach the stuff DAN INOSANTO and JERRY POTEET say are important. 💯
@@axelstone3131 because JEET KUNE DO isn't being Bruce Lee. Now there.
I enjoyed this one and it’s great this book will be out there soon. We’ll done Alex. I too, do admire Bruce Lee; for me, in ‘action’ as an entertainer and movie star, which is what he really was. Sad to say, there was nothing original about JKD other than the fact it was one man’s investigation into martial arts and philosophy born out of curiosity which he then used to create the perception of something new. JKD is a business now as is Bruce Lee.
Book is out now.
" for me, in ‘action’ as an entertainer and movie star, which is what he really was".
Well, of course you have the right on your own opinion. But i cant stop laughing how the Wing Chun community always tries to put down JKD or Lee himself. Even if i agree with you there are many lies in JKD and from JKD instructors.
An entertainer and movie star would never have been able to beat a High School Champ Boxer like Gary Elms in Boxing, a Black Belt in Karate and Judo like Nakachi Yoichi in a street fight, and a Northern Shaolin master like Wong Jack-man aka Huang Zemin in a street fight.
But wait a minute, sure the WC masters like Yip Man, Wong Shun-leung, Lo Man-kam, Chan Wah-shun, and Leung Ting would all have whiped the floor with Yoichi and Jack man in 5 seconds instead of Bruce defeated Nakachi in 11 seconds.
Lee sparred Point Karate Champion Louis Delgado multiple times, Delgado held victorires over Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis and Mike Stone in Point Karate (wins and losses, he fought them mulitple times), and Mr Delgado told the Black Belt Magazine to sparr Mr Lee was a humble experience, he coudnt do anything against him.
I mean nobody is unbeatable, but these comments like "he was only an entertainer and movie star, not a martial artist, couldnt fight in the street, nothing" from Wing Chun are strange.
Without Bruce Lee, Wing Chun woulndt be so popular today like it is. Like it or hate it.
Even Matt Polly in his bio BL A Life watered down some of Lee's myths and martial arts skills (if he could beat the Incredible Hulk), but even he stated Lee was a "deadly street fighter". That means a lot coming from him because he even made it out like more or less there is no prove Bruce was better as the Point Karate Champions. I mean he stated this in several podcasts in the past years, or let s say didndt say it, but didnt disagree with ppl who claimed it.
This is a conclusion from Polly i respectfull disagree with, becacuse Black Belt Magazine founder Mito Uyehara knew all of them, and he told John Little not one of them was on Lee s level. Plus the accounts of ppl like Delgado or Skipper Mullins (also a Point Karate fighter).
PS: But in totality Pollys bio is amazing and he cant get enough credit for it!
But of course i respect any viewpoint, and i am not here to change people s opinions!
But i can definately tell you an entertainer and movie star only, a guy like Pat "Mr Miyagi" Morita, who was never a martial artist, or this fake amateurish David "Kung Fu" Carradine, to compare Lee with such people is beyond ridicolous.
Not one of the two would ever defeated Elms, Yoichi, Jackman, or sparred with Delgado and getting such a praise from him, because Morita and Carradine were only actors and entertainers.
I respect your opinion too. Thanks for sharing.
@jpssteveshanahan I get your point. But so or so its always a bit critical to judge someone properly you never saw with your own eyes. I go primary with the things what ppl said who actually knew and saw him, and some of them werent even his friends.
You knwo which has the biggest weight to me about how good of a street fighter he was?
Professional Boxer Joey Orbillo. This man fought Jerry Quarry in 1966. Quarry is a legendary Boxer from the golden era, he fought Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Earnie Shavers, and many others, and even if he lost to Ali and Frazier, he knocked Shavers out in one round.
Shavers is credited by Ali and Larry Holmes as the hardest puncher they have ever faced.
Ali could compare his power to George Foreman, Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier, and Holmes with Mike Tyson and Gerry Cooney.
And both men Ali and Holmes said Shavers was the hardest puncher...and Quarry beat him in one round.
Orbillo was able to go the full distance with Quarry. He also sparred Kickboxing and Ponit Karate Champion Joe Lewis, Bruces trainings buddy.
Orbillo knocked Lewis out with a kidney punch. And when John Little talked with Orbillo, he told hiim he sparred Bruce too, and Bruce was on an other level as the others. Orbillo said Lee came in and out, in and out, popped him a bit, and Orbillo couldnt do anything which impressed him very much.
And what many people forget or dont even know:
In the late 80s Orbillo threadned Bob Wall to punch his face in if he ever spread lies about Lee.
Wall spoke with this scandal journalist Albert Goldman who made a living in put ViPs down. He also wrote BS about Elvis and tried to make him a pervert and bad man.
The Lee Estates lawyer Adrian Marshall then came into Walls office and put a business card of Orbillo on Walls desk.
With the card was a message from Orbillo to Wall with a thread to hurt him. Wall was scared and even denied he spoke with Goldman, telling Marshall he was ski driving during that weekend.
But Goldman had Wall s sign in his article. So Walls lie was exposed.
So words from Orbillo, but also many other martial artists and even some sport fighters from that day, who actually saw and met Lee, mean to me more then words from other people, be it Polly, J. Little, David Tadman, or former biograhpers like Alex Ben Block or Bruce Thomas, or anyone else. They have the right to give their opinions, but in the Orbillo-Wall case, it was former Lee historian George Tan who brought this to daylight.
You also have to remember: Not all Lee historians etc. are interested about any aspect of his life. Some are more interested in his martial arts, street fights etc like Little, others are more interested in his privat gossip, his movies, and other subjects.
So not any Lee historian has the knowledge about any field. Little for example is imo the best when it comes to his martial arts, training and street fights, but absolutely not when it coms to the private man. His job was never to reasearch the privat man so he never did. But he really seems to believe in this "Saint Bruce" image what his Estate portrayed over the past decades, while someone like Polly was more interested to find out more about the private man. Besides some chinese Lee biographers, he really went into his private life. Bruce Thomas did it too, but not in this dept like Polly did.
But, from a "technical" or "scientific" standpoint, nobody explained better in a couple words why Lee was so special then Little did:
"He was not a normal martial artist, not a normal man. His muscular system, his neuromuscular system, and his nervous system was wired in a way that ours typically arent. He had this delivery system in get in out before people could react. And when i say people, i mean professionals in martial arts and/or combat sports."
Not just Pro Boxer Orbillo had this "in and out" experience, but same reports came frome Karate Point Champoins like Jim Kelly, Louis Delgado and Skipper Mullins, but also from Pan Am Goldmedal Judo Champion Hayward Nishioka.
They all said the same. Lee came in and out, he would hit you, and be out of range again before you could do anything. And their statemtens are all the same.
Of course Ego ppl like Norris, Wall and others would never admit this too, but Lewis at least did indirectly. He said when Lee was at 100%, he called his Alpha State Of Concentration, nobody was able to touch him.
Dan Inosanto and Richard Bustillo stated both they saw Lee sparr with Norris and Lewis, and both were on lost ground, they could never touch him since his moving speed was so abnormal. But of course Lewis and Norris never confirmed it.
Type in the searchbox here on RUclips
Bruce Lee fastest kicks ever seen by the world
In this video you see how fast he was able to move his legs when he really gave 100%. Slow the video down to 0.25 speed. There are no frames missing, it just looks like that since its so damn fast. And there you can see with your own eyes this unique speed matches all the descritpions i just mentioned.
But yeah this was much text. I only wanted to explain things in detail. Polly did an amazing job in totality and about Bruces life from A to Z (even if i dont agree with anything he wrotes, or at least i have doubts, be it the heatstroke or some other small things, but in totality its great!), but like the Nr. 1 Hong Kong movie expert is still Bey Logan when it comes to Lee, Little is the 1 when it comes to his martial arts, street fights, training methods and actual abilites. In this subject Polly didnt do such a great research, while Little never did it about Lee's roots or how the private man really was, not a philosophical guru but more like a drug using hippy.
Finally you only have to take Lee s fight with Nakachi Yoichi as example:
Bruce was 19 years old, almost 20. Yoichi was 27 or 28, most probably 28.
Bruce did Wing Chun and a bit of other styles during that time;
Yoichi was a black belt in Karate and a 2nd degree black belt in Judo.
Result: Lee defeated Nakachi in 11 seconds, the guy ended out could on the floor with a fractured skull. He was out for a while.
To beat a guy who held two black belts in two stlyes, Karate and Judo, is an amazing feat.
@@Bartron_Flat_Earth JKD like most things was built on concepts, techniques and principles of other martial arts. Even the philosophy was built on Lee’s study and words of others. He took those ideas (did not invent himself) and created a name or label JKD, which he said was a new style, martial art or his personal expression that he encouraged in his students. In essence, the new concept or martial art he’s talking about is a merging or blending of arts which nobody was doing at that time. That’s possibly the original thing but Gene LeBell was already thinking like that and could possibly be the godfather of MMA. I must also stress that while I thank Bruce Lee for doing so much for the WC community, martial arts and respect that he was a hard worker - he was an intermediate level in WC having not completed the system. Had he completed the art, or been better at it, it’s possible he would have thought very differently about WC and the martial arts, as we all do when we accumulate more experience and knowledge. In my opinion, Bruce was a ‘vicarious’ learner from others. He learnt mostly ‘second-hand’ (from books) with the odd teaching from talented teachers, but never studied the arts he choose in great depth or great detail. I’m 30 years in and still learning, changing and growing with no fixed ideas. Taking into account Lee’s background and experience in martial arts, would anybody listen to him if he wasn’t the movie star he became? I wouldn’t…but that’s just me. I don’t worship people for their accomplishments. Hope you can accept my response and thank you once again for the engagement on this channel. I also want to thank THE KFG team for such great content!
51:29 THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. My goodness. Are we bringing up something from 50 years ago. And acting as if we’re passionately UP IN ARMS about it? 😂I find that weird. ✅💯
You do realize that EVERYTHING about Bruce Lee is 50 years old, don't you?
@@jamesbishop3595 I do.. but I noticed ALEX made it perfectly clear that he wasn’t throwing gas on it. Other people were. Not you. 😎🤛
48:32 He wasn’t using HEAVY DRUGS. Pot n hash are the same thing just about. COCAINE? It was the 70’s. 😂Cocaine was required at that time period. 😆🤛
27:16 😂omgoodness. It’s a way to use your WING CHUN. Jeez. Lol
50:58 So what if it is fraud. Why is this guy so interested in pinning fraud on LINDA? This is old hat. They did what they needed to do in those days. Why are we judging? I hope he doesn’t have any stuff he lied about kicking around? I just don’t understand the NEED to bring it up again n again. 😉🙏
23:44 INTERCEPTION GUYS. He’s forgetting. It’s not an art like KARATE with a certain amount of this or that. We have methods and principles.
51:11 I get it.. He probably needed something. Linda wasn’t nice, or didn’t cooperate. Now he’s bringing up the life insurance again.. ok.. 😂
Very funny but not true. I have never asked Linda Lee Cadwell for anything, other than information when I was writing my first book on Bruce Lee in 1999. At that time, I sent her a letter outlining my book project and seeking information. A month later I went to the 1999 JFJKD Nucleus seminar in Seattle to gather information for the book. She recognized my name on my tag and approached me. After a brief talk, she offered to make the Lee family archive of photos available to me; an offer I declined. I declined it because I wanted to remain objective and not beholden to the Lee family, and I had the intuition that accepting would come with certain "strings" attached. (And over time, I have witnessed those "strings" being pulled with a heavy hand when tethered to certain Bruce Lee collectors and JKD instructors who were dependent on the remaining in the Lee's good graces, so I believe my concern was justified.) Instead, I spent thousands of dollars of my own money to license the photos that were in the book. A year later, when I won an award for my philosophical writing on Bruce Lee given to me by the Nucleus at the 2000 Nucleus event in Las Vegas, I was presented with my award by Shannon Lee, and then Linda Lee Cadwell came to the podium and publicly praised my recently-released book. And that evening was the last time I have seen or spoken to them, nor have I attempted to do so at any time since. I have never had a personally negative experience with them. I don't have an axe to grind with Shannon Lee or Linda Lee Cadwell other than their continued and willful misappropriation of other people's words. And I know with a certainty that they are fully aware of the problem.
As for the insurance subject, I only addressed the issue of the life insurance in this interview because Sifu Richter brought up the subject of the drug letters. It's called analysis.
@@jamesbishop3595 ya.. but I noticed you seemed to have a “My hairs on fire look” trying to sell it as a way to say her n Bruce we’re crooked. I can tell by what I said, and then scat you said.. that i think I’m gonna just state the obvious. Who cares? It was 50 years ago? So why paint her as something we know not .. people have reasons. She’s a mother. First and foremost she needed to protect those kids. She was bereaved, and there wasn’t exactly mad money probably floating around in those days. SIFU RICHTER went out of his way to not only report the new information. But he also made sure to not make a big deal out of it. It was said in a way as to not HARP on it. 💥🐉SON TSI MERIT MASTER KUNG FU.
@@jamesbishop3595 by the way.. it seemed like that to me.. and it’s a free country. My opinion is valuable. People listen to me. I don’t know why a person would harp on an issue that could hurt Bruce Lee’s people. That’s all.
The only person more misquoted than Bruce Lee is The Buddha 😅
Excellent episode! Now let's get the popcorn ready for the backlash 🤭
@jpssteveshanahan9572 interesting take. Is it possible that Jesus' students and their students, and the future generations that followed, saw fit to make changes to his teachings in the spirit of "continuing to evolve", and now it is questionable about whether we have the authentic teachings of Jesus? Hmmmm.
I do not understand the point of James Bishop's book, apart from raising the copyright issue of the original authors.
It is absolutely normal to realise that the Tao of Jeet Kune Do has 90 percent taken from other sources because - and someone who says he studied JKD Concept should know this - in every jkd gym you can find written: "research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own." This is one of the fundamental principles that are repeated over and over again in JKD because it tells us how jeet kune do works and what distinguishes it from other martial arts (is also the "creative" process used by Bruce Lee). But for James Bishop this all seems to reduce to 'plagiarism'.
It’s simply because the book was published without citing any of its sources, which has much less to do with Bruce Lee than his estate in 1975. It’s only fair that those authors and their works get the credit they deserve in inspiring Bruce Lee.
Tommy carruthers best example of jkd out ther
I know, even the great Donnie Yen is afraid of him.