Battlespace 'The Cardassian Border War' Battle of The Badlands
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Huge shoutout to Ryselle 3D@ Deviantart for Creating the Custom Ekoor and Kulinor Renders check out her page here: www.deviantart...
as far as i'm aware this is the only 3D model of the Ekoor out there and they are more than happy to share it if you want to put it into Mods/Games i really want to raise the profile of this Awesome warship.
here is the next episode in the series covering the Cardassian Border War. thanks to everyone for your continued support as always Enjoy.
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The Kulinor and Ekoor Renders used in this episode were made by the excellent www.deviantart.com/ryselle-3d . as far as we know this is the ONLY 3D model of the Ekoor out there. if you want to add it into mods/games or animations get in touch with them as they are more than happy to share. I would love to see the Ekoor more in Fandom :)
Great job but you’re killing with the Cheyenne. Its pronounced (shy-ann).
Dude subscribers are loving these series of yours!!!! Your numbers are rising fast...whens that Patreon coming out? LOL
I wonder any chance to see the Dominion War early moves as the unofficial war as Starships battled each other on the border and Starfleet holding its ace in the hole by RD the captured Jem'hadar ships or better the battle of Sector 001 the first battle fleet engages.
i knew somone would jump on that. my defense is- being an Englishman i'm not as familiar with american history and correct pronunciation especially since most of American English is the same as English-English. sorry.
definitely my main goal with this series is to show battles that didn't get to the screen.
Cardassians were blessed to have the Federation as neighbors. They'd be a serf class to the Klingons or the Romulans otherwise.
True!!! The Fed's fought a way through half of TNG that barely showed up as an issue. And a galaxy class easily matches 2-3 Galor class.
@@augurseer and not a Dominion war varient. The OG varient. Which is all the more pathetic.
@@ironstarofmordian7098 Dominion War Galors weren't really that impressive. They could handle Mirandas but they were basically the TIE Fighters of Starfleet during the Dominion War. The Galor we saw being hit full broadside by two Galaxy-Class Battleships went down really easily and was only firing futility.
The Cardassians fought a conflict with the Klingons over the Betreka Nebula which lasted nearly a decade. I think Dr Bashir referenced this in the DS9 episode: Way of the Warrior.
Geez, any other neighbors would suck when you think about it...
Even the Ferengi. They'd turn the Cardassiand into a company, or a brand.
Imagine being the Cardassians, you start a fight with the Galactic space hippies, and you get smacked about, infact they are so not bothered, they don't even send their flagship. The Galactic Bro's pick a fight with you, and you get crushed. The people you call to help you, then enslave you and attempt to commit genocide against you.
yeah the cardassians really have it rough.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 for a second, I almost feel sorry for them
The Cardassians? no way I could ever feel sorry for those guys. These are the guys insisted there and cried in front of the federation media and made themselves out to be the victims of the big bad bullies in Starfleet. Meanwhile they're on Bashor raping the planet and the population? I didn't even feel sorry for them at the end of the Dominion war
I might feel sorry for the cardies if you know the cruel occupation of Bajor hadn't happened...
For Cardassia Prime it was the most historic encounter to date, for the Federation, it was Tuesday...
Miranda class ships kicking ass. I love this, they are one of my favorite ship classes.
the Dominion War made them a Meme but its quite the ship in 'Wrath of Kahn'
Venom Geek Media 98 It’s funny though you look at the first episode in season 6 after Siskos fleet has been all but destroyed look at what’s left. Mostly older ships about 5 Miranda’s are seen and the Excelsior being towed. So aside from that reused cgi sequence I believe they may have fared better than most people realise.
Considering I have designed and built this class out of LEGOs, she's a favorite of my fleet. The Royal squadron segment is made all the better by the kick-ass music. Great job.
If this war was handled by an experienced and tactically minded admiral, the spoonheads would've beaten badly in no time.
This is what happens even you have a military that's not run by commanders versed in war and tactics. Even the most powerful ships with the latest weapons mean nothing if they're not used right.
well yeah, Nachayev had basically won the war already
This video fills in the details missing from the TNG episodes that covered the issues with the Cardassians perfectly. No wonder there was so much animosity. It also demonstrates the risk of armchair commanders.
It seems to me that the Cardassians managed to punch well above their weight during this conflict. By the time Admiral Nakamura was done snatching defeat from the jaws of victory they had somehow regained much of their original territory - a remarkable if perhaps fortuitous development. It occurs to me that if the Cardassians were handicapped by their technological inferiority Starfleet was hampered by political bickering within the Federation. The phrase 'lions led by donkeys' comes to mind. Thanks for your efforts Venomgeek, keep em coming!!
definitely. i think part of the problem the federation have is that they just do not understand the Cardassians and their mindset. they live in a world of plenty where want has disappeared. so they don't understand just how Desperate the Cardassians are.
@@venomgeekmedia9886
I agree. Sisko explains this point to Kira in an episode of DS9. The point is valid. Yet the question arises: despite their obvious paranoia, are the Cardassians more capable than their Federation counterparts of understanding and manipulating the enemy mindset? Or are they equally as hopeless? I don't know the answer to this. But my sense is that they understand humanity and its foibles better than humanity understands them. This is borne out to a degree during the negotiations leading to the final border settlement. I seem to recall a Jem Hadar observing that the Treaty seemed to be a 'tactical error'. Quite right: the Federation was badly outwitted at the bargaining table. Possibly the Cardassians understood that a return to hostilities would be a bigger wrench for Starfleet than it would be for them and their negotiators played on this.
@@Mayfield2024 Just more arrogant. They'd had some successes already against smaller worlds like Bajor, they were an up-and-comer in the Alpha Quadrant, and if you are a military authoritarian empire based on nationalistic pride, there's nothing you'd hold in higher disdain than a bunch of multi-cultural/species peace-loving sheep without even an actual military like the Federation. They probably planned on knocking the Feddies back hard, then wait for the Federation to come crawling to them asking for a peace treaty...and they weren't wrong.
@@Mayfield2024 The peace was forced by the Borg invasion scaring Starfleet and forcing them to wake up a bit. Kind of hard to undergo doctrinal reform when you're currently actively involved in combat and the Borg were a far bigger threat than the Cardassians.
The Miranda-Class is outdated and known to explode by looking at them.
Royal Squadron: Hold my Photon Torpedoe.
Cardassians: NOOOOOO!!! YOU CAN'T BEAT US WHEN WE OUT NUMBER YOU TEN TO ONE!!!!
Royal Squadron: Ha ha, mines go BOOM
Sorry but this honor belongs to Oberth class
I use to think of the Cardassians as space Nazis, but I more and more consider them the Imperial Japanese. Pointless charges into superior firepower and technology, relying on suicidal attacks to cause the most damage. Any analogy is flawed, but that is my 2 cents.
there is definitely a mismatch the cardassian ships much like Japanese tanks would have been fine back in the 2290s but have technologically been left behind.
I'd say something like Space Ustace. Nasty as all get out, but small fry and hangers-on to the real monsters
They are imperial Germans. The klingons are the Japanese. The romulans Soviets. IMHO
So true.
I believe there the Italians Italians were doctrinally backward and behind other powers during ww2 and I think that sums up the cardis
13:30 Captain John "Nuke-Em" Sherridan approves
From Earth's perspective, this must has seemed as important and urgent as current Afghanistan operations do today...Yet starships were burning and worlds were falling under alien guns. I wonder sometimes if all the rogue admirals and Section 31 silliness we see in the various series can be largely explained by this simple difference in perspective. Most of them were veterans of these kinds of brushfire wars. It must be hard to fight & survive out on the final frontier, then watch the people back home in paradise...not be ungrateful for your efforts, but simply not be able to comprehend them? You probably get real fired up about not seeing anymore Starfleet personnel left to die, out on a limb because the Paris government was busy debating replicator subsidies.
Well said. I always found the idea of section 31 to be a breath of fresh air and realistic.
As reprehensible as Section 31 is, I can see the need of a black ops unit in Starfleet. Maybe if there was a more decisive victory against the Cardassians, there would not been a beachhead for the Dominion years later.
@@augurseer I like the idea of Section 31 but only because there are so many badmirals that Trek writers strasight up saying they all belong to the same evil club is neater. I like them as evil cult of idiots that exist to be a useful source of tension for writers.
I love how Federation politics interfered with starfleet wining the war. Though you couple argue that without a full scale invasion. Starfleet could never hope to truely end the threat, thus the war was pointless from the start
They didnt even need to win. All they would have to do is take a picket defense with a castle defense. set up outposts and squadrons to patrol the new border. Badlands would have automated defenses as well mines to stop any Cardassian captain from getting too bold.
The reason you'd take a defensive strategy is you know your enemy is a bit too much on the bravado side and doesn't think things through. So your best attack strategy would be using your superior sensors and speed to close in on any line breaches and hit them hard. Then you'd have exclusionary forces that would push into Cardassian territory. You'd hit their shipyards and fade away.
The Federation Strategy should have been
1) Establish a new embarkation line
2) Fortify new defensive line utilizing a Picket and Castle defense strategy.
3) Operate on a raiding level, hitting targets of opportunity and fading away
4) Stress the economy of the Cardassians
5) Enter negotiation at a position of power, strike them every time they fail to not concede to your demands.
6) Win.
Remember, the Cardassian High Command wants to 'win at all costs'. So The Federation should take the opposite stance, that is to subdue them either through economic or physical means. Eventually the High Command will lose more officers than it can produce, forcing rookie captains to the front line, the Federation on the other hand can pick and choose targets, with minimal losses. The idea would be to bend, then rebound back.
Most wars are pointless.
They had to change the entire warp scale due to the advancements of the (sort of) failed transwarp drive. It was such an advancement however that the new warp 8 was exactly twice as fast as the old one. And they probably did it using the same amount of energy. I believe in their transwarp attempt, they still ended up climbing the next major step in warp propulsion technology.
very true and its a good example of how you go down certain technological branches expecting a certain result. only to discover something unexpected.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 In their transwarp attempt,They developed a more efficient warp field geometry. and had to change the scale. It wasn't just that the physical warp core was more powerful, it was the entire drive that was reworked. Some races already had it figured out , the Klingon's for example, but less advanced races, like the Bajoran's or Licians, probably never reached that level of warp technology.
Those poor Mirandas. They did all right here, but all I can think of is how they got so terribly, terribly mauled in the Dominion War rematch.
Edit: "At 1337 hours, reinforcements arrived to check out the Mirandas' m4d ski11z."
...Does anyone still use Leetspeak anymore, or am I dating myself?
im glad someone spotted it. your not alone ;)
Mirandas are such wonderful ships :3
I don't know why the Federation doesn't realize that you can be powerful militarily and not be a militant nation. Especially when you are at war. I get they wanted peace, but that doesn't mean show weakness, that's counterproductive. The Federation could easily focus more on exploration, but they need ships built for war as well.
Don't forget, it was a common wide spread belief that the federation was "Above such base instincts" as stated in the saying "every federation citizen is a diplomat". They believed that ANY aggressively motivated action violated that. Think of it as this. They followed the idea that words were stronger than actions. That if you talk enough, you reach understanding and enlightenment.
@@ThePuppywolf And then the Borg came
@@viralshadow they dont talk 😅
Can you name one country today that has a powerful military and is not a militant nation?
@@LARGO125 United Kingdom.
Kinda ironic, because that peace between the Cardassians and the Federation created the Maquis.
Again great story and work, there is no other source like you for this, keep going. And of course, subscribed.
Excellent fan fiction! Very glad I found this channel.
This isnt fan fiction at all, this is star trek cannon
In summary, nearly 100-year-old ship designs embarrass the Cardies.
Captain Jellico should've had a miniseries, i loved his TNG episode
he does have his own meme genre. google star trek jellico... they really are something...
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very informatively explained and very well executed indeed 👌...
I would pay real money for a Star Trek limited series on the cardassian border wars
A time when Miranda Class ships were actually good fighters and abbe to hold their own, unlike 30 years later when they exploded when an enemy sneezed within 90 degrees of them lol!
Loving these series and such a unique channel!!
@Shame nolan Venom Geek Media 98 is growing subscribers so dang fast!!!!
@Shame nolan absolutely!
Always a treat, live long, and prosper.
This is a story that's really well told. I admit, I came in expecting nothing except garbage... I was very presently surprised with your quality of storytelling and attention to detail. My hats off to you. ... and... that's the last time I'll second guess you... heh heh... I asked for that.
im glad to have surprised you.
I love your videos and how they provide a backstory that is generally not talked about unless you read the books. I look forward to seeing them when Discovery returns and talks about The Burn...whatever that is. Keep them up and thanks again.
This is why you don't have a coward in command when facing savages like the Cardies.
I side with the klingons on destroying those monsters abilities to fight back.
I just LOVE the smell of some red-hot, photon torpedo, starburst blast in the morning
what does it smell like?
Been waiting since Monday and it didn't disappoint. Amazing work tyvm Venom my cardi/feddie war was non existent now I avidly await the next installment.
The royal squad. Hell ya. Started Started as the lost battalion ended and the Battle of the Bulge didn't need rescue just a resupply
Thank you so much for making this video I enjoy listening to them so much.
I really enjoy these Battlespace videos
I assume the ship called majestic is the sane ship destroyed at operation return in ds9 sacrifice of angels epsiode. The seatac at the same time both miranda class refit.
5:13 slight correction, you said the Excelsior was developed in the 2380s, which should be 2280s (the TOS movie era) 2380 would be a bit late for the Cardassian War!
And I love you included the Springfield, New Orleans and Cheyenne classes, which makes a ton of sense as they were contemporary with this era.
When you say one of the Miranda’s had a sensor pod, isn’t that an Antares-class? I know it’s basically just a Miranda with extra stuff glued on, but so is the Soyuz and that’s always referred to as Soyuz not a Miranda variant?
I don't know about the Antares class, but I thought I saw the Centaur.
Loving these stories! Keep them coming!
*MIRANDA'S USING 100 PERCENT OF THEIR POWER*
Great video! Loved it during lunch just now!
Always August... Should be at least one USS LEO involved in these. :D
Uss Moggle for the win, Captain Kupo
Starfleet is not a military and it shows that you love
I would not have given Nechayev Brahams line vessel either. The woman while successful has lost sight of what Starfleet was supposed to represent. I am glad Starfleet Command stood there ground.
However I would not have sent Nakamura. I would have promoted a captain already in the field such as Maxwell or Jellico
Once again well done.
Cant wait til the next one!
Keep up the good work I love your videos.
While only a side species the cardasians seemed to hit a wall on new ships, the galor and newer keldon class were not quite as powerful as a Starfleet Galaxy or nebula class. That's not even taking the new 24th/25th century sovereign and Odyssey class.
Well, the Cardassians were working with a technology base that was considered about 40-50 years behind Federation technology, as well as a weak economic and industrial base. The fact they could keep up at all, as well as they did is impressive, but then again, Starfleet was being hamstrung at every turn by politics and public opinion
so the thing to bear in mind is that nearly everyone is caught out by the Galaxy class, the Klingons and Cardassians Prioritize medium cruisers like Vorcha and Galor, and the Romulans build the D'deridex to hunt those ships. i'll cover it in the next episode but the Galor is a solid platform.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 A good way to think of it then, was the Treaty Cruisers of the late 1920's that were being built under the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty and then when the treaty broke down, The Cruiser Killer type ships that were being built specifically to hunt and destroy them like the German Graff Spee and the American USS Alaska
LoL Cardassians are easily baited into traps. Good to know.
@Darth Revan Master Baiters? I thought they were Cunning Linguists?
This is one war that you wish that the Federation had a little more Terrain Empire in them and less Space Hippie. Why does the Federation always respond with a few ships when 300 ships would have won the war in a week.
very good job loved it
I wonder if Nechaev wanted to call it 'Operation Bagration', but it was too un-Feddie, heh....
Cyka Blyat!
Actually calling it 'Operation Uranus' would have been more accurate. She created a cauldron which trapped all the Cardassian forces but did not finish them off.
22:30 Is that a lightsaber? After studying it for about 3 min I can say the whole pic is from the star wars universe. I'm a big fan of both. Except Disney 3 movies.
IN DARTH VADERS VOICE: TOU ARE FREE TO USE ANY METHODS NECESSARY TO END THE CONFLICT, BUT NO OFFENSIVES!
Random Captain: BUT SIR THAT MAKES NO SENSE! THAT'S WHY THIS HAS GONE ON THIS LON.....GGGRLLLLL
PERHAPS YOU FEEL THE FEDERATION HAS HANDLED THIS POORLY?
lol! that genuinely cracked me up. nice one. :D
@@venomgeekmedia9886 YOU ARE PART OF THE MAQUIS ALLIANCE AND A TRAITOR!
GOOD! IT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE IF I HAD TO LEAVE... A NEGOTIATOR HERE.
Great video, this series is awesome! Do we know about any wars that Picard was involved in before enterprise?
Picard WAS in this, in part. There are small comments he made in TNG about getting jumped by Cardassian ships while commanding USS Stargazer. (though I think that was AFTER the war, now that I think about it.)
There are two videos that appear on this playlist twice.
thanks for letting me know i'll get that fixed.
Too much indecision from the federation. Too many people died because of it. Great video
If the Federation didn't get cold feet about war, they'd be the Terran Empire.
Wait, wait wait wait wait- the USS Moogle?
Is there a USS Chocobo out there too...?
Mughal as in the empire. but equally probably, or at the very least a shuttle with the name.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Okay, that makes more sense in-universe =p
A joke that any Cardassian will find funny. What do you get when you cross a 32nd century, flowering Orion female Osyraa green leaf plant with a 32nd century Andorian male Blue Splash of Life plant?
An Eggplant.
Therefore Osyraa has at last fulfilled her destiny by becoming the Egg Plant Queen of the Emerald Chain.
The federation never took the cardassians as a threat the federation was more edvas than the cardassians that's why they never really fight them
Was the crew still on that damaged ship they left behind if there wasn't no crew on it then starfly should have boarded the ship and stripped it of anything of value and then booby traffic so that when they tried to get close to it they could blow it up that's what I've done or I would have put some of my crew a little bit of crew from me ship on that ship and took control of it
So, the Cardassians send their very best forces against Starfleet’s second, maybe third string forces. Goes to show what would’ve happened if the Federation had turned it’s full focus on the war.
yeah while there are some tier 2 ships like the Ambassador, Cheyenne, and New Orleans. the Majority of the task force are Miranda Excelsior and Constellations.
This is further shown in the later stages of the Dominion war when Galaxy Class capital ships went from "oh i explode" to " Jem'Hadar go OMFG WHAT JUST HIT ME!!" titans in battle.
The excelsior was definitely not developed during the 2380s
So, they replaced an experienced badass with a noob and expected to win?
essentially... although at this point they didn't care so much about winning and more just ending the war.
Like the series but I think it's laughable that a nation as large as the Federation would commit so little of resources to an armed conflict where federation citizens were being killed. I would think it would be much more effective to come in with a strong fleet and control the situation and quickly force a settlement on your terms. This series of videos and later DS9 really show pursuing peace at all costs when you have hostile neighbours around is stupid.
true but its definitely in character for the federation.
Don't forget, the Federation at the time believed so strongly in peace by talking that they felt ANY armed conflict was worse than just saying "Ok whatever! Just don't bruise my pretty face!" so they can then laude their "diplomatic prowess" to the masses. They live in a bubble of no want, so they forget the reality of the universe.
@@ThePuppywolf I agree with you. I would have loved to see more content from a time say 10-15 years after the Dominion War. The bubble so to speak was popped and the Federation has to take a more pragmatic view of the galaxy they reside in. They still pursue the goal of peaceful coexistence with their neighbors but Starfleet acts a bit more like a military rather than a scientific and exploration service.
The Federation reliably "wins the peace". They count on slapping down attackers with very measured interventions and out-doing them over time economically, technologically, culturally, etc
They should have put Captain Frazier from The wrath of Khan time in charge of the border wars he'd been like what's this old p**** too aggressive s*** he's like you give me one of them new nebula class I'll show you too aggressive
Are there any ST novels about this conflict?
Is this the last video on the cardassian border wars ?
And I don’t wanna pressure you but I am really exited about the halo videos
One more after this... i hope. in terms of Halo it seems your in a minority, but i'll definitely do something even if its just a series of short-form videos covering units and tactics...
venom did the Galaxy class launch just after the war?
Some during. Most after.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 that’s what I thought and typical federation had them exploring instead of the front line like with the constitution class during per TOS kilingon war
Excelsior class would be 2280s not 2380s
Is this from a novel
How were these 2 groups ever at war? The battles seem so mismatched.
You could say the same thing about Imperial Japan attacking the USA in WW2. Sometimes the weaker side HAS to attack to achieve its objectives.
I'm anti-war as well. But not when you have a ruthless enemy that does not stop attacking you at every turn. Should have completely crushed the Cardassians. Then see what can be done for the poor starving civilians.
Was the Cairo's captain Jellico or is this too soon ?
it was
Of course it was. Jellico was a certifiable bad ass with chops for days. If I was going into battle from 2330 to 2370, I'd want him as my Captain. After 2370, it's The Grand Pimp, Sisko. After Sisko, Worf.
If I was going to go prevent a war, by humiliating the opposition into shutting up and going away, using nothing but tea and a short, humbling speech, I'd want Picard, hands down. That or finding new scientific anomalies and things.
I have a very specific question. At 17:18 there is a Federation ship on the top left that I don't recognize the class of. What is it?
Cheyenne class! one of the many tng-era kitbashed vessels
@@simonippo7252 Top Left, not top right.
It looks like a Niagara class ship without the 3rd nacelle
@@asteropax6469 It does, but the pylons are different.
@@jef_3006 I think I found it. The Narendra class. It’s based around Andrew Probert’s original design for what would ultimately become the Ambassador class.
USS Moogle!?
Uss Google was taken.
The Cardassians will fall before us, kupo.
Bravura as the background music? Really? Lol.
Again this shows that the lack of competence in starfleet admiraltyat this time. It also shows that starfleet lacks the will to deliver a hammer blow. These feels like there Vietnam.
the cardassians were never really a threat at all not even during the dominion war they were just trying to punch up to far
What is a Grad Gull? I have never heard that term before.
A Grand Gull is one that will steal your hot dog at the beach, instead of just your potato chips.
@@richardm3023 Those damned Cardassians took my sandwich right out of my hands once.
@@CharlesUrban Cardassians never steal! That hot dog was appropriated for the greater glory of Cardassia, who would use the hot dog more efficiently and wisely than other races!
@@MM22966 You win an Internets, good sir, and should write Cardassian propaganda professionally.
USS Moogle! Kupo!
Probably "Mughal."
UNFORTUNATELY.........
Star fleet Command to Capt Picard of the Enterprise- Your mission is to fly around the galaxy and fuck around with your bullshit adventures while the rest of us fight to the death against the Cardassians.
Source?
the game 'birth of the federation' but there are a lot of blanks to fill in.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Interesting stuff... Really not enough Cardassian related content out there, so this was cool.
Enterprise was vastly better than Cardassians. How could there even be a war?
Everytime I see the Federation fight, I realize, they are the millennials of space. Whiny, weak and unable to cope with something they don't like lol
Watch the video again. That was only the case when a "millennial" took over at the Federation. Before that, the Federation had the Cardassians surrounded and on the verge of surrender. Life lesson, keep "millennials" out of office at all costs, or prepare to pay a very high price at the hand of your enemies once the delusional "millennial" assume office.
@@marketingmajor8126 I'm a whole year late here. But I'm not changing what I said. It's still true even more true as my country itself gets weaker with " feelings" before facts.
I'm sorry, but after seeing ST: III and VI, I just have no respect for the Excelsior. I mean, its specs sound impressive, but when up against a crafty Scotsman, James Kirk, and a Bird of Prey, and it just sounds overrated. Not to mention, the Enterprise B was shit!
The Miranda Class, however, definitely lived up to what we saw from just one!
So, basically the problems started when a Democrat got elected.
uhhhh why is the particle beam from the second Cardassian ship a polaron beam? Cardassians have overcharged Phaser beams which osillate! You should play the game STO for the color of the beams and what they mean which was taken from canon.
if you are referring to the blue-white beam of the Kulinor, the artist thought that the beam was the same color as the deflector. but in this series i've always used Pink/red beams for the cardassians since it is what we first see in TNG 'the wounded' and it contrasts with starfleets orange beams.