Engine Management P-47D
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2018
- A guide on the engine management and keybinds of the P-47D. Since so many people asked.
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Игры
Howdy. I read through the P47 manual and can shed some light on a couple things. First off, turbo ahead of throttle. This is bad because if that condition is met, the turbo produces a lot of boost whereas the throttle plate is closed, building up pressure on the outlet side of the turbo and causing internal damage.
Second off, full rich is NOT best for power, in the game it might be, but in real life (in case you were wondering about it) auto rich is best power, full rich is an emergency setting in the event of auto mixture control unit failure.
As far as coupling, the turbo is not to be used for takeoff, however, above the altitude where your throttle begins losing the ability to make full manifold pressure, the turbo lever can be used as a second throttle. ALTERNATIVELY, if you couple them, it acts as one throttle but you must keep an eye on not exceeding max manifold pressure, and not exceeding turbo rpm limits. In the real manual, this was often stated as to be used by pilot preference and/or to be used in making maintaining formation easier.
Though Il-2 players should be familiar with the idea of constant speed props, a warning that running the manifold pressure too much in advance of the RPM (limits vary in every case so experiment) the engine will eat itself. Never forget to increase rpm in addition increasing throttle and mixture if you’re ever jumped by enemies while cruising in an economy setting.
In case anyone is curious water injection is actually a water alcohol mix, and the reason it adds power is it provides additional cooling and allows for cooler intake air temps (power gain), extra manifold pressure due to said cooler temps (power gain), and I believe it also has an effect on the actual pressure produced in the cylinder during combustion... not sure though. The alternative to water injection is making the mixture richer but that is a far less effective method and does not lead to nearly as much gain. Rich mixes are usually just used if the engine needs a smidge of extra cooling.
The authentic manual for this aircraft is available for free online as a PDF, some of this knowledge just comes from my own experience.
Well explained. I can well imagine that the turbocharger must not get into the compressor pump (surge mode) if the throttle is suddenly reduced. Maybe a additional reason for Turbo ahead of throttle? A bypass (wastegate) could maybe solve the problem? Greetings from Germany.
I love the idiot marks on American aircraft gauges as it makes getting the status of your engine so much easy at a glance. Its something that I definitely notice that is missing (in my eyes) in Soviet and many of the German aircraft. I have to fight the urge to get my green and red paint pens and try to mark the engine limitations on the monitor :)
Many german pilots marked the engine regimes on their dashboards with a pen of some sort :D
@@SheriffsSimShack not to mention the number of autonomous systems in place for German aircraft made blowing the engine a little harder as well
There was a pretty distinct looking mid/late war manifold pressure gauge for LW-planes that did have coloured markings for different engine-settings. IIRC, the original IL-2 used that instrument in some of its LW planes ... I don't think I've ever seen it in IL-2 BoX though.
Here's a picture:
www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Ladedruckmesser-Fl.20555.jpg
The labels read (from left to right): Continuous - climb/combat - take-off/emergency.
Other LW instruments also had hash-marks "built in" that would indicate the "safe zone" ... like on certain oil or fuel pressure gauges.
Related the Huey has one of its gauges mounted sideways so that the needle is the same direction as the others so the pilot can quick scan and just needs to see all needles at the same orientation.
@@SheriffsSimShack Ah, yes. Good old radium glow-in-the-dark paint. One of my friends at work had a grandpa that somehow had a can of radium paint he used for gauges. He said his Dad got into it and painted the underneath of his car so it would glow at nighttime. His grandpa made his Dad work off the cost of the paint for several months because it was super expensive and only supposed to be used on gauge increments and needles. (He did have a kickass looking car at nighttime though!)
Gonna watch the whole thing. I hopped in the P-47 and holy smokes is the engine management complex.
WoW Sheriff, I feel like a Jug ace already. Thank You.
This made a huge difference, I'm pretty new to il-2 and for the most part I've been learning planes with a quick glance of something online then figuring the rest out in a single player career. But with the p-47 the plane just felt like a complete brick and without proper engine management it was so slow I could barely keep it in the air during turns.
I just shot down a few K-4s with settings similar to this, so it definitely works!
very useful, i bought IL2-BOBP and i just bought it for P-47 and P-51.so video is nice!
The Thunderbolt was a well known “busy cockpit” in reality. Good stuff.
Speaking of the P47 cockpit, have you ever heard this joke? The P47 was so large that evasive action consisted of undoing your straps & running around the cockpit.
I'm so glad I bought the Logitech throttle quadrant controller. It's priced pretty good and I now have 3 levers that I can dedicate to mixture, RPM, flaps, to free up my joystick bindings. It's neat having an actual lever to control instead of the keyboard or running out of joystick bindings. I've also found out how convenient 'custom profile' setup is for each aircraft.
I was waiting for a video like this one!
Sheriff, I love you! :D
A very much needed tutorial, thanks sheriff :D
Thank you Sheriff. Great video.
Excellent video, I was getting frustrated with this plane. Always enjoy your videos.
Great info, very useful. Thanks, Sheriff!
Very useful as always. Thanks for the tips!!!
Thank you much for this video,with the new plane set that came out recently things have gotten more complex.
Ive been playing Sturmovik since the very early 2000's in just about every incantation made,very early on i bought a trackir so that freed up many buttons for me on my keyboard, i absolutely despise the "shift2, alt h, ctrl8" kind of bindings, anytime i get a new game i erase all the default bindings and just make my own,i much prefer a single key for everything , "G,H,J,K,L" and things like that,makes it much easier to play, i would love to find someone that plays that way like i do and check out some of their bindings and compared them to mine,i might learn a new trick or 2,lol
I have not read the manual yet so thanks for this tutorial.
Just a heads up max continuous turbo rpm is 20,000. If you zoom down on the gauge the green ark runs to 20k. 22k is max 15 minute rpm. Also I’ve seen a manual state link turbo and throttle with the exception of takeoff in certain conditions, keep throttle and turbo linked until the critical alt of 23,000 is achieved or when Mp cannot be maintained by the throttle then unlink turbo keeping its rpm at 20k
Please go over how you would use all of these settings in a sortie/fight. Knowing all of this is well and good, but knowing when and how to use these settings in a fight is a whole different beast
Great tutorial video man!
Glad you liked it!
Nice video mate!
Nice one Sheriff.
Any chance you can do a combat How to video with the P-47D in a fight with an enemy. Example like what to do and not to do with engine management...I think a lot of pilots would benefit from it.
This. Please someone do this. I always see tutorials set in ideal conditions but never practical application tutorials.
Great vid. Thanks!
Thank you!!!
It seems like mixture has been modeled the way you describe it, but it was not supposed to be used that way according to manuals. Full rich was ONLY if the mixture was malfunctioning, otherwise you should only use either Auto Rich or Auto Lean.
I noticed it always says that on every planes specification that used manual mixture in this game,when i say manual i mean that we need to adjust every so often, was it common for the mixture lever or the mixture itself to malfunction in those days? im sure it would because if it wouldn't they wouldn't have modeled that.
Good demonstration, just what I needed
Not gonna lie, when i first flew the plane i was like wow this plane is garbage, i cant even get over 250 and the thing flies like a brick, then i linked my RPM, turbo, and throttle to the same axis, and it unlocked a totally different experience for me. The P-47 is a pure joy to fly
Captain Hecker aren’t they linked already on some flight settings?
Excellent
Sheriff, the "auto rich" mixture setting is perfectly fine for later american aircraft, even at full power.. The "Full Rich" setting is only for emergency situations in which your engine has been damaged in some way and/or your carburetor isn't working properly. This is in contrast to earlier aircraft using the Allison engines, in which "full rich" was to be used during W.E.P.
I was talking about the game and there it adds a few mph.
Which key bindings for the fuel mixture please...
with thanks sir for your briefing ))
The turbo is maneged with also a valve on the fuselage.. It get more or less air from.the exaust system! The red light next to the turbo presure dial is blinking when your presure is good. !! When its fully on its spinning to fast..!! Thats easy to see for a pilot.. !! 👍 good luck all maneging this big bird.!!! Greets Klu_peete.. Or Acg_peete
I think if you dropped the throttle while the turbo was still providing full boost the cylinders would begin "detonation" due to lean fuel mixture which is when the fuel air mix combusts spontaneously and not as a result of the spark plug ignitiong
I'm a little late here but when you showed your bindings you had the oil radiator and inlet cowl shutters on the same binding but were controlling them independently, how did you do that?
I bound the inlet also to another button. I did that back then because I was often flying the La5 which just required to fully open both. Hence why I just used one button to do that.
The most suprising thing for me after spending time df-ing on berloga is how stable it is in turns and how mutch more effective is with flaps down in turns or even climbe turns.
Murican planes gotta use flaps
I would be reeeeaaaally thankful if you could make a video on the IL-2. I have trouble flying it without overheating just by following the squadron. Obviously I'm missing something, and of course, searching for IL-2 overheating on Google when it's the name of the game isn't working in my favor...
Oil and water radiators wide open, mixture full, RPM and throttle 90%. I think that should run the Il2 fine.
Iam asking this question to you ,may be you can help me ,ok i have a problem with this simulator when i look around with trackir or hatswitch on any map there is a invisible line across the map is very annoying everywhere i look the invisible line will follow i dont know what happen ,do you remember the movie predator with Arnold ,when the girl say looks like the jungle came alive talking about the invisible alien that's why i see in the map hope you can help me sorry to ask .i have try everything install, uninstall ,cinematic on off ,thank you in advance very weird problem.
Maybe you mean forest rendering distance? Game draws forest just only to some few km distance and after it just draws simple landscape without forest. Sometimes it looks like a line. Could this be what you mean?
Is it possible to controll the mixture if I have it binded to an axis?
sure
My guess is that a closed throttle with a full rpm turbo could damage the turbo, because you have blocked off the normal intakes which might over rev the turbo.
Most likely engine detonation or turbine damage. P-38 had same issue. See www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html
Wanted to say cool video and make it 100 comments :P @sheriff's Sim Shack
Thank you for this, I have most of my flight gear set up ... just waiting on a better FCS and HOTAS but going through the set up just for the A20/HE111/JU88/Duck took me 2-3 hours just to get comfortable with it..... anyway how does anyone land a JU88 anyway??? The pilots view is obstructed forward !?
Anyway love your videos keep up the good work.
Practice. Or someone guiding you from the bombardier's position.
Ju 88... Keep your speed up and maintain a gentle sink rate... You need to use your instruments.
(Not so) quick guide....
FTFY... ;)
And that is why I still prefer to fly LW-planes. With my current HOTAS setup I would probably need a second throttle to map all that stuff... :D
It may not matter as far as the game is concerned, but it was my understanding that the turbocharger cowl at the rear of the plane was to be closed in highspeed dives to prevent structural damage. I say this only because you said that they can be set to 50% all the time. Do you know anything about this?
I can hardly imagine that and havent heard of that issue,
Furthermore I would surpirse me since the intercooler inlet flap is outside of the slipstream at 50%. I would say damage is less likely.
But whats your source?
50% is in game good in all alts and dives, only at 10000m or higher i noticed 70% give me more speed in strait speed. On High alt 100% mix gives you also most speed, like low. 2550rpm gives you better level speed up to 7km, abow 2700rpm works better, like he said. You can also turn on manual rpm at high alt and go higher rpm to get more speed but not for long, i was going 2min on 2900rpm and gained good more speed like that but boost timer is not 5mn after it,and you risk braking engine ( abow 3300 rpm instant kill of engine).
Is this helpfull? ruclips.net/video/_NWaHlnI_LQ/видео.html
@@SheriffsSimShack I'm at work now. I will see if I can find it again when I get home.
Why is a lower RPM needed for more top speed?
the propeller has a higher efficiency at that RPM.
the engine outlet doesn't seem to work for me
Can you test all planes like that?
Of course
Hi, is it possible to turn this text messsages/helpers on the right side of the screen off as server admin like in i.e. DCS? I tried to find this option but i couldn't find it. I was able to disable them only for myself.
It is the only thing which reminds me it's only a game.
Nice channel.
Not possible as a admin. Only possible for the user.
@@SheriffsSimShack It's a shame, that seems to be the only unrealistic part of the game. Thanks for the replay.
As someone with only one throttle axis, disabling the helpers would put me at a significant disadvantage, especially mid fight, since I can't glance at the controls in-cockpit.
I personally dont mind them as well. If somebody wants to turn them off he can do that.
@Falos imbalos so how do you play DCS?
There is no animated compass or text helpers in DCS.
i damage the charger w/o high temps and very low percentages and must keep throttle at like 88% to avoid the 7k rpm limit
even if i dont damage the charger i lose manifold pressure down to the 20 and the needle sputters
with engine damage on would be interesting :(
That sounds like bad engine management
@@SheriffsSimShack it was and is lol thx
i was damaging the charger ect w/prop % leading to too high rpm along with cooling too much
appreciate the video!
@@SheriffsSimShack DUDE whats crazy is i was in war thunder and i got it purring w/ur video lol thx
I tested it for myself too. :P Maybe not in the way, which leads to overheating engine. Looks like it is slow plane at low altitudes - Spitfire Mk IX is much faster. Especially acceleration. K-4 is way, way faster.
I wonder in which world the Spitfire is faster. Maybe in acceleration. Tho at top speed the P-47 is 40kph faster!
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301637712962781184/522920647572062208/unknown.png
Think I’ll stick to the 109
you know that things are getting serious, when someone have joy5 input;) 6 controllers, that is crazy:)
Joystick, Throttle, Paddles and a gamepad. Dunno where the game finds the 5th. maybe a device is counted as two (maybe the gamepad sticks)
I dont know.
@Agustin Moscoso Exactly. You can clean the input devices file in the game folders if you want to get rid of old numbers.
@@cbz3237 i dont know why I would need this
Hold that thought in mind when applying it to DCS's full cockpit control I currently have two modded Thrustmaster throttle quadrants joined together to handle most loads combined with two joysticks one being the Thrusmast the other MFFB which i mainly use for il2 as well as rudder pedals ,extra screens for maps ect As i'm still waiting for a Rift to come out with the next model If at all that i hope will live up to my expectations ! there not there yet by a long shot having all the VR models and hardware to suit .
@@SheriffsSimShack What do you use the gamepad for?
Dont have Il2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad because I didn't think it had American planes.
besides the P-40(Battle of Moscow) and the P-39(Battle of Kuban) which both were added in lend lease versions new american planes get added in Battle of Bodenplatte.
Which is in early access stage at the moment.
Unfortunately with the conservative by the manual engine settings getting to any of these speeds in a multiplayer server is impossible, she's actually quite the dog with only 5 minutes of boost and it eating into the combat mode.
you make good shit.. gute bratwurst kanal :)
The jug is a big girl....and I love the big girls.
I did all these things in IL2 and can't get past 315mph
you most certainly miss something (or you test in non standard atmosphere)
80 or 12 liters a minute can't be right... Or... thats a lot...
I still think Jug is huge disappointment and now I totally get why Russians did not like it. It lacks of acceleration, agility and even speed is not so impressive. The only strong points are the armanent and durability which make it probably quite nice attack fighter (still I don't think it can beat Fw 190 in this role; as a fighter even oldie, but goldie A-3 eats Jug alive on low-mid alt). Anyway, nice video as always.
The plane is much better at very high altitudes, but I do agree it's quite the dog down low. Especially with the extremely conservative engine limits. If we had access to longer boost times it'd be much better, it just doesn't get moving anywhere very quickly. It does carry more than 3x the fuel the 109 does and weighs significantly more. But it's also got a massive motor in it. The big benefit is something we don't get to use much online being the high alt performance. It actually outclimbs even the k4 above 7k from the graphs I've seen. With the introduction of the new map and other high alt fighters maybe we will see an increase in altitude online. Right now most of the fighters do much better down low especially the russian planes, which is a big reason why most fights tend to be lower. That and the need to see bombers.
So many people are ignorant of the 56FG which gives the impression that the P-47 was mo good as a fighter.
@@DSRT888 Can you please evolve this?
@@sunrrrise The 56th Fighter Group flew P-47 until the end of the war and was one of the most succesful units of the USAAF in World War 2, in aerial victories and number of aces it produced.
so is this video completely irrelevant ( haven't watched it all yet. ) i was scrolling through the comment, a guy named Johnny made a handful of corrections ?
This video is 100% relevant
If you read carefully its anecdotes and from the real manual.