Interesting the change in dynamic in the workplace. I am still working at the same place I worked Pre-T. My co-workers have been pretty good at the name change but still use female pro-nouns and never use me as an option when something heavy is needed to be lifted. ( even though I have always done crossfit and worked out ). I am not seen as male in my workplace... however, the customers see me as male now and I have noticed some differences in that area. I have noticed that women tend to smile at me more, and men smile at me less. haha Tone of voice has a slight difference to it too.. it is all very interesting.
TheSLOfox haha nope definitely can't complain there. I noticed it too if I am out running.. sometimes I wonder if it is because I am viewed as a teenage boy... lol
This is really interesting. I have been thinking a lot about this. Especially now that I pass consistently. Male privilege is different when you're experiencing it first hand for the first time.
Looking great! You can tell how happy and confident you are with your new chestly landscape! Work is such a fascinating arena of gender roles and expectations that I have no shortage of great stories. I work in mining and recently I was at proposed mine site on an UTV with a female colleague. There were many downed trees in the way on the trail we were driving on. The first one we encountered I sat in the UTV for a bit and then I realized quickly and said to myself .... "Oh, as the man I'm supposed to get out and move these trees... right... I'm on it!" Haha. I had a slight moment of panic, like what if I cannot lug these trees out of the way, but apparently I've gotten pretty strong (yay T) and it was rather effortless. The feminist in me looks down on how proud I felt at that moment. It's such an interesting thing to navigate. I can definitely relate to be treating as the "young guy" who people think need to be taught... bleh. This is especially challenging as I bill at a senior consulting rate... awkward.
I absolutely love your insights on what it's like to be experiencing these different challenges as a trans person. It's so important to get these perspectives out there. Awesome and insightful video as usual
Megan Capocci thank you so much for exploring the world around you and speaking such beautiful support. I am very thankful for your comment and that you enjoy learning new things. I'm the same way! I love hearing stories & perspective.
This video is brilliant Forest (used to follow you on my old channel manoXpiano), you have such a great and unique perspective on transition which I'm sure many of us think about but few of us put in to words. Anyway this struck a chord with me on two levels I'm transferring to another location with the company I work for and what you've mentioned about being percieved as the "young guy who needs taught about the big bad world", is something that has crossed my mind. I'm now 3 months on T so not sure if I will be read as male yet. The other level is where I currently work apart from ne its an all female staff team (that's just the way its worked out its not a rule or anything). Since they all know me from my pre T days I'm not read as male and so treated differently to male relief staff who come and go. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this other than your video has made me think about my current job and my soon to be transfer. Thanks for making me use my brain!
Logan Turner thank you Logan! I remember your old channel & I miss you!!! At 3 months reactions seem to vary, sometimes coworkers from "before transition" will slow things down. I remember in the position I had before I was sent on an assignment with a coworker & all the new people immediately read me as male, but the guy I was sent with used female pronouns-- so all the new people were embarassed & started calling me she as well... Needless to say I had to have a little talk with everyone... But you can see how complicated it was.
I am also stealth at work, and I am the new guy that lifts heavy things!! lol In a way, it feels good to be finally seen as a strong guy. Pre T, people always discarded me saying "you can get hurt, let him do the work", and it was really frustrating. But for me, being stealth feels weird. Besides work, all the people I know, knows I'm trans. It's funny because I always wanted to pass and have no one guessing about my masculinity. But having to change details about my past and having new body dysphoria, like my hands for example, are things I don't like at all. Recently I started getting really self conscious of how my crotch looks! lol I've never had the urge to buy a packer, but now I'm thinking about it. Hugs from Argentina!! :) (And btw, make a video about the new doctor's appointment!! with you, it's always interesting! I would watch you reading your grocery list lol)
Hrelja I love hearing from Argentina! The more manlier I become the more confident i feel with a good sized packer. Yes, I am sent to do the heavy & dangerous work and it's making me stronger fast. I uploaded a new video, but it's not about the doctor yet-- that will come soon.
like 12 years ago, I was volunteering at salvation army....and all the girls were sent to sort clothes, hang them and get them out on the floor. The guys would drive the trucks and pick stuff up from houses, like furniture and whatnot....and then once they got back to the store they moved the heavy stuff either into a storage place or on to the floor if there was room. I remember one day I was there and there weren't that many guys and there was a bunch of stuff "for the guys to do" I was like "I can help!" and they were reluctant to let me help...but they needed the help so they were like "help us unload this truck" they expected me to to get the small stuff...but I walked in put a queen sized box spring on my back and carried it by myself to where they store all the extra bed stuff. They all looked pretty surprised, I mean a 5 ft 3 "girl" doing all that heavy lifting? inconceivable! They all used partners to carry stuff that big. After carrying a couple of beds...and some other random furniture by myself they were pretty shocked, lol. No one there knew I wanted to be a guy, hell, no one knew....In my head though I kept wondering "could I do what guys do?" I had seen how guys are treated differently on the job, and expected to do more difficult physical tasks. So that day was really about proving to myself that I could do it. I actually seemed to do it better than some of the "real" guys. I enjoyed the work, I hate being treated like I am weak because of my gender. I've always been really strong, even though I'm fat and short....and I love using my strength. So hanging clothes was boring as hell. Unfortunately as soon as the other guys came back....it was back to hanging clothes.
rar3kainrandomness I totally relate. I HATE times like these where women are sent to do soft mindless work and men are trusted to do harder more challenging work. It's such an insult! I'm glad you got one good day in... But how insulting to all women when that is accepted as the norm! Rock on.
People tend to underestimate me in math and science stuff, even myself sometimes, but I graduated top of class in math in high school. I notice when people who are perceived as men are assumed to be great at science-y stuff and I am just skipped over.
I think tbat pre-T shaving ones head makes their feminine hairkine standout, making them look more feminine. It also seems like even after T trans men have smaller heads than cis men, so maybe when we shave our heads that makes us look more feminine.
TeeDubable yeah, it's true. Hair removal is adding more naked to naked. Even with the stand out differences I see myself-- no one else notices, so I'm all good.
lookin' great in that T-shirt, man! It's interesting to hear about your experience. I'll be having a soooort-of similar experience soon, since I'll be moving back to my hometown and starting work at new schools. It'll be interesting to experience people getting to know me as a man, instead of working with people who knew me before transition. Wow, that woman sounds super buff! Peter Pan - LOL. I get it. In some ways, it's kind of fitting or convenient to be viewed as younger than I actually am, because I missed out on the experience of growing up and being socialized as a guy, so if men think I'm a young guy and treat me as such, it's like a chance to "catch up" on some of the socialization that I missed. Just curious... in your outdoorsy job, are you ever in the situation of having to pee outdoors with people around? If so, how do you handle that?
TheSLOfox peeing out doors has been something I've had to do. I've worked with all male crews, and been one of the guys. Basically, I pretend I need to go poop in the woods, problem solved. But when we were sent to a desert-- that was wayyyy tricky. It involved looking for canyons, hillsides, ditches and saying, "don't go over there, I will be pooping." Even though I was totally peeing.
ClosetTransgender haha. That does sound tough. Those guys might think about guys like us, "dude, he poops a hell of a lot!" ha. But that's cool that it has worked out for you!
I work as dental assistant and I'm the only man at work (except my boss) and i'm kind of exotic. So many people keep asking me "why did you do that job?" and say "It's not typical for a boy to do that" .... yeah :D
I was reading an article about the difference between male skulls and female skulls the other day and my skull has over half of the features a typically male skull has. That was kinda weird for me (nice, but weird). I have a mohawk and keep my sides shaved to the skin, but I never even thought about if that would bring out any feminine features... Post-transition I've never worked in a female dominated workplace so I can't really comment on that, but I've also never been one of the guys since then. I get along with them fine, but I'm a different type of person than my current coworkers (graphic designers and copywriters). they're more bohemian and I'm more the intellectual/geeky type. A friend of mine has the same experiences as you though, and he blogs about it or we just talk about it and it's out of this world what kind of expectations people have of you depending on what they think is between your legs.
MrImportrans thank you, I very much enjoyed reading your comment-- a little glimpse into your world! It's true, some people just look better with a shaved head than others!
Out of context, but I read an article about untranslatable words and thought of you (and the vibes in some of your videos): “the German word Waldeinsamkeit means ‘the feeling of being alone in the woods.’ How typical of those woodland-loving Germans, wandering around the Black Forest enjoying oneness with nature!”
I have noticed some similarities with working at my summer job with customers and what they expect out of me compared to my female coworkers. I work at a co-op a lot of the older female customers that come in have me grab items for them, help them carry items, and put the grocery baskets away. Whereas when my female coworkers that have interactions with the same customers don't do all of that. Welcome to the world of the binary....the binary system sucks just my opinion. I believe in more fluidity and move away from the binary definitions.
This happens to me all the time now. Also because I'm tall I am chosen above every dude in the room too, to lift things. But the truth is they have decades of testosterone and are often stronger than me! So I get kinda anxious as soon as someone says "where's a strong guy to lift this" like *pls don't look at me*
The Dom I know what you mean. The saddest thing was when I was in a car with a group of women & I was flagged down by a a young woman who hit a fawn and broke 3 of its legs and everyone looked at me and said, "you're a hunter, right?" Ahhhhh
@@ClosetTransgender Dang, that would be a painful experience for me! I would love to hear you tell about that in a video. Thank you for your eye-opening videos, Forest!
I like your shirt. I've never moved so I dont have that experience except when I meet a new kid at school and I can sort of introduce myself to someone differently. Yeah my mom got mad at me cause I cut my hair short she thinks it "makes me look too much like a guy".
thelizzerd poor little Bro. You cut your hair short because you are a boy! Hopefully your mom will learn to understand. Your future is bright. And when you have more freedom to express yourself, people will see who you are.
I never got the benefit of practicing social skills early on, being trans and not knowing it until recently. I feel like I spend most of my time at work convincing people that I'm of this planet... :/ Has anyone else run into that?
Cameron Jones I HAVE RUN INTO IT!! To this day people think I am weird or random. When I was seen as an androgynous girl people ignored and dismissed me, isolating me as well. Since transition people always welcome me it seems like, and the behave as though it's great that I am a straight white man who is weird and random. It went from being odd, to being celebrated. Sure, I eat it up & feel good about myself and it adds to my confidence-- but I'm also heartbroken because I understand how superficial peoples' perceptions and treatment is
I like how the suggested video for me is "how to tune a FTm-400DR radio" Lol. I guess it thinks the videos are similar because they both have FTM in the title...but I just find it funny. I AM A RADIO NOW MAHHAHAHAH
I look like a girl so at my workplace they treat me like I'm weak and short it might be true but it kinda hurts your pride when another dude comes and says "hey let me grab that for you"
That is the worst feeling, not only is your manhood insulted, but no one even takes your manhood seriously! It's a double sense of pain. Don't worry brother, it won't always be like that.
thelizzerd you are doing a good job hanging in there. I shared some of my thoughts in your other comment, but your day will come soon and not much will stop you, just stay healthy & true to yourself, sometimes school counsellors can help. You can ask them to be an ally and help you explain more about being trans to your parents.
It sounds like they might know. You should write about it in a journal, write all the things you want to express to them, and one day you do! It's been in the news so much lately it's hard for people to ignore. Parents are just people that need time to understand and take it all in. They react in certain ways-- but it's just an initial reaction that changes overtime. There are many happy endings in the trans story.
Bro just fyi I can see you have shaved your head and I don't see any feminine features (not that it matters). But also perhaps it's more than with the hair gone all the focus is on the facial features?
Interesting the change in dynamic in the workplace. I am still working at the same place I worked Pre-T. My co-workers have been pretty good at the name change but still use female pro-nouns and never use me as an option when something heavy is needed to be lifted. ( even though I have always done crossfit and worked out ). I am not seen as male in my workplace... however, the customers see me as male now and I have noticed some differences in that area. I have noticed that women tend to smile at me more, and men smile at me less. haha Tone of voice has a slight difference to it too.. it is all very interesting.
Cody_talks I have also noticed that women smile at me more now, since I am viewed as a man. Can't complain! :)
TheSLOfox haha nope definitely can't complain there. I noticed it too if I am out running.. sometimes I wonder if it is because I am viewed as a teenage boy... lol
This is really interesting. I have been thinking a lot about this. Especially now that I pass consistently. Male privilege is different when you're experiencing it first hand for the first time.
I'm not sure how I got here but I found this so interesting. Thanks for sharing, I now must go and watch more of your videos!
Looking great! You can tell how happy and confident you are with your new chestly landscape! Work is such a fascinating arena of gender roles and expectations that I have no shortage of great stories. I work in mining and recently I was at proposed mine site on an UTV with a female colleague. There were many downed trees in the way on the trail we were driving on. The first one we encountered I sat in the UTV for a bit and then I realized quickly and said to myself .... "Oh, as the man I'm supposed to get out and move these trees... right... I'm on it!" Haha. I had a slight moment of panic, like what if I cannot lug these trees out of the way, but apparently I've gotten pretty strong (yay T) and it was rather effortless. The feminist in me looks down on how proud I felt at that moment. It's such an interesting thing to navigate. I can definitely relate to be treating as the "young guy" who people think need to be taught... bleh. This is especially challenging as I bill at a senior consulting rate... awkward.
New place? Hope we don't lose any of that amazing scenery in the background of your videos!
Rubrical Louise this next one has some brick-- but you hear birds!
Boy a miss your videos, i love the way you see life and how youvlive it.
You made me curious about your doctor visit - you own us that story now ;-)
Felix Ferdinand yeah im curious too.
me too
Yep, same here
Felix Ferdinand I will. Soon. Not yet.
I absolutely love your insights on what it's like to be experiencing these different challenges as a trans person. It's so important to get these perspectives out there. Awesome and insightful video as usual
Megan Capocci thank you so much for exploring the world around you and speaking such beautiful support. I am very thankful for your comment and that you enjoy learning new things. I'm the same way! I love hearing stories & perspective.
This video is brilliant Forest (used to follow you on my old channel manoXpiano), you have such a great and unique perspective on transition which I'm sure many of us think about but few of us put in to words. Anyway this struck a chord with me on two levels I'm transferring to another location with the company I work for and what you've mentioned about being percieved as the "young guy who needs taught about the big bad world", is something that has crossed my mind. I'm now 3 months on T so not sure if I will be read as male yet. The other level is where I currently work apart from ne its an all female staff team (that's just the way its worked out its not a rule or anything). Since they all know me from my pre T days I'm not read as male and so treated differently to male relief staff who come and go. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this other than your video has made me think about my current job and my soon to be transfer. Thanks for making me use my brain!
Logan Turner thank you Logan! I remember your old channel & I miss you!!! At 3 months reactions seem to vary, sometimes coworkers from "before transition" will slow things down. I remember in the position I had before I was sent on an assignment with a coworker & all the new people immediately read me as male, but the guy I was sent with used female pronouns-- so all the new people were embarassed & started calling me she as well... Needless to say I had to have a little talk with everyone... But you can see how complicated it was.
And yeah every day getting spoken to in that kind way like "young man let me explain life to you" haha
The Dom Yup. All the time... Which can be nice at the new job cuz they are more forgiving thinking about me being so young.
I am also stealth at work, and I am the new guy that lifts heavy things!! lol
In a way, it feels good to be finally seen as a strong guy. Pre T, people always discarded me saying "you can get hurt, let him do the work", and it was really frustrating.
But for me, being stealth feels weird. Besides work, all the people I know, knows I'm trans. It's funny because I always wanted to pass and have no one guessing about my masculinity. But having to change details about my past and having new body dysphoria, like my hands for example, are things I don't like at all.
Recently I started getting really self conscious of how my crotch looks! lol I've never had the urge to buy a packer, but now I'm thinking about it.
Hugs from Argentina!! :)
(And btw, make a video about the new doctor's appointment!! with you, it's always interesting! I would watch you reading your grocery list lol)
Hrelja I love hearing from Argentina! The more manlier I become the more confident i feel with a good sized packer. Yes, I am sent to do the heavy & dangerous work and it's making me stronger fast. I uploaded a new video, but it's not about the doctor yet-- that will come soon.
like 12 years ago, I was volunteering at salvation army....and all the girls were sent to sort clothes, hang them and get them out on the floor. The guys would drive the trucks and pick stuff up from houses, like furniture and whatnot....and then once they got back to the store they moved the heavy stuff either into a storage place or on to the floor if there was room.
I remember one day I was there and there weren't that many guys and there was a bunch of stuff "for the guys to do" I was like "I can help!" and they were reluctant to let me help...but they needed the help so they were like "help us unload this truck" they expected me to to get the small stuff...but I walked in put a queen sized box spring on my back and carried it by myself to where they store all the extra bed stuff. They all looked pretty surprised, I mean a 5 ft 3 "girl" doing all that heavy lifting? inconceivable! They all used partners to carry stuff that big.
After carrying a couple of beds...and some other random furniture by myself they were pretty shocked, lol. No one there knew I wanted to be a guy, hell, no one knew....In my head though I kept wondering "could I do what guys do?" I had seen how guys are treated differently on the job, and expected to do more difficult physical tasks. So that day was really about proving to myself that I could do it. I actually seemed to do it better than some of the "real" guys. I enjoyed the work, I hate being treated like I am weak because of my gender. I've always been really strong, even though I'm fat and short....and I love using my strength. So hanging clothes was boring as hell.
Unfortunately as soon as the other guys came back....it was back to hanging clothes.
rar3kainrandomness I totally relate. I HATE times like these where women are sent to do soft mindless work and men are trusted to do harder more challenging work. It's such an insult! I'm glad you got one good day in... But how insulting to all women when that is accepted as the norm! Rock on.
People tend to underestimate me in math and science stuff, even myself sometimes, but I graduated top of class in math in high school. I notice when people who are perceived as men are assumed to be great at science-y stuff and I am just skipped over.
Virginia Ruth yes, I hate this, it is so sexist. You must keep on rocking it!
I think tbat pre-T shaving ones head makes their feminine hairkine standout, making them look more feminine. It also seems like even after T trans men have smaller heads than cis men, so maybe when we shave our heads that makes us look more feminine.
TeeDubable yeah, it's true. Hair removal is adding more naked to naked. Even with the stand out differences I see myself-- no one else notices, so I'm all good.
lookin' great in that T-shirt, man!
It's interesting to hear about your experience. I'll be having a soooort-of similar experience soon, since I'll be moving back to my hometown and starting work at new schools. It'll be interesting to experience people getting to know me as a man, instead of working with people who knew me before transition.
Wow, that woman sounds super buff!
Peter Pan - LOL. I get it. In some ways, it's kind of fitting or convenient to be viewed as younger than I actually am, because I missed out on the experience of growing up and being socialized as a guy, so if men think I'm a young guy and treat me as such, it's like a chance to "catch up" on some of the socialization that I missed.
Just curious... in your outdoorsy job, are you ever in the situation of having to pee outdoors with people around? If so, how do you handle that?
TheSLOfox peeing out doors has been something I've had to do. I've worked with all male crews, and been one of the guys. Basically, I pretend I need to go poop in the woods, problem solved. But when we were sent to a desert-- that was wayyyy tricky. It involved looking for canyons, hillsides, ditches and saying, "don't go over there, I will be pooping." Even though I was totally peeing.
ClosetTransgender haha. That does sound tough. Those guys might think about guys like us, "dude, he poops a hell of a lot!" ha. But that's cool that it has worked out for you!
I work as dental assistant and I'm the only man at work (except my boss) and i'm kind of exotic. So many people keep asking me "why did you do that job?" and say "It's not typical for a boy to do that" .... yeah :D
Erik Kristopher very interesting...and sexist of them to say!! I would love if you were my hygienist fyi!!!
Hi Forest,you look great :)
Pelenta R. Forrest you always look great too!
I was reading an article about the difference between male skulls and female skulls the other day and my skull has over half of the features a typically male skull has. That was kinda weird for me (nice, but weird). I have a mohawk and keep my sides shaved to the skin, but I never even thought about if that would bring out any feminine features...
Post-transition I've never worked in a female dominated workplace so I can't really comment on that, but I've also never been one of the guys since then. I get along with them fine, but I'm a different type of person than my current coworkers (graphic designers and copywriters). they're more bohemian and I'm more the intellectual/geeky type. A friend of mine has the same experiences as you though, and he blogs about it or we just talk about it and it's out of this world what kind of expectations people have of you depending on what they think is between your legs.
MrImportrans thank you, I very much enjoyed reading your comment-- a little glimpse into your world! It's true, some people just look better with a shaved head than others!
Out of context, but I read an article about untranslatable words and thought of you (and the vibes in some of your videos): “the German word Waldeinsamkeit means ‘the feeling of being alone in the woods.’ How typical of those woodland-loving Germans, wandering around the Black Forest enjoying oneness with nature!”
***** that is so cool!! I am glad you shared!!
I have noticed some similarities with working at my summer job with customers and what they expect out of me compared to my female coworkers.
I work at a co-op a lot of the older female customers that come in have me grab items for them, help them carry items, and put the grocery baskets away. Whereas when my female coworkers that have interactions with the same customers don't do all of that.
Welcome to the world of the binary....the binary system sucks just my opinion. I believe in more fluidity and move away from the binary definitions.
This happens to me all the time now. Also because I'm tall I am chosen above every dude in the room too, to lift things. But the truth is they have decades of testosterone and are often stronger than me! So I get kinda anxious as soon as someone says "where's a strong guy to lift this" like *pls don't look at me*
The Dom I know what you mean. The saddest thing was when I was in a car with a group of women & I was flagged down by a a young woman who hit a fawn and broke 3 of its legs and everyone looked at me and said, "you're a hunter, right?" Ahhhhh
@@ClosetTransgender Dang, that would be a painful experience for me! I would love to hear you tell about that in a video. Thank you for your eye-opening videos, Forest!
I like your shirt. I've never moved so I dont have that experience except when I meet a new kid at school and I can sort of introduce myself to someone differently. Yeah my mom got mad at me cause I cut my hair short she thinks it "makes me look too much like a guy".
thelizzerd poor little Bro. You cut your hair short because you are a boy! Hopefully your mom will learn to understand. Your future is bright. And when you have more freedom to express yourself, people will see who you are.
What's funny is the day before I got it cut mom mentioned "She'll make a cute guy one day then she'll have to shave". Does that mean she knows??
I want to hear the doctor's story pleeeaaaase!!!
Juan emilo soon buddy! Soon!
I never got the benefit of practicing social skills early on, being trans and not knowing it until recently. I feel like I spend most of my time at work convincing people that I'm of this planet... :/ Has anyone else run into that?
Cameron Jones I HAVE RUN INTO IT!! To this day people think I am weird or random. When I was seen as an androgynous girl people ignored and dismissed me, isolating me as well. Since transition people always welcome me it seems like, and the behave as though it's great that I am a straight white man who is weird and random. It went from being odd, to being celebrated. Sure, I eat it up & feel good about myself and it adds to my confidence-- but I'm also heartbroken because I understand how superficial peoples' perceptions and treatment is
I like how the suggested video for me is "how to tune a FTm-400DR radio" Lol. I guess it thinks the videos are similar because they both have FTM in the title...but I just find it funny. I AM A RADIO NOW MAHHAHAHAH
thelizzerd lol! I've been wanting to tell you for a while-- this does make me laugh!
I look like a girl so at my workplace they treat me like I'm weak and short it might be true but it kinda hurts your pride when another dude comes and says "hey let me grab that for you"
That is the worst feeling, not only is your manhood insulted, but no one even takes your manhood seriously! It's a double sense of pain. Don't worry brother, it won't always be like that.
ClosetTransgender thanks man it's weird but nice to be called brother
Baby steps, lol. Thanks for all the supportive comments. You are moving in a good healthy direction, love your attitude, man.
How old were you when you first started on testosterone
mika orozco in my 30s.
I am 16 and being 16 sucks. I wanna be an adult so my mom stops talking to me about how i should be more girly..ugh i hate it.
thelizzerd you are doing a good job hanging in there. I shared some of my thoughts in your other comment, but your day will come soon and not much will stop you, just stay healthy & true to yourself, sometimes school counsellors can help. You can ask them to be an ally and help you explain more about being trans to your parents.
I mean I havent even told them yet and I dont think Im going to yet...
It sounds like they might know. You should write about it in a journal, write all the things you want to express to them, and one day you do! It's been in the news so much lately it's hard for people to ignore. Parents are just people that need time to understand and take it all in. They react in certain ways-- but it's just an initial reaction that changes overtime. There are many happy endings in the trans story.
Bro just fyi I can see you have shaved your head and I don't see any feminine features (not that it matters). But also perhaps it's more than with the hair gone all the focus is on the facial features?
The Dom hair gone makes naked more naked--but appreciate your observation & take it as a compliment. I love you bro!