Love how it turns into actual mediaeval tactics at 00:22:15 with both sides building fortifications on either side of the wall; the small things that makes aoe2 great
honestly Tim played really well, you wouldnt imagine that he's considered their weakest player. As a chinese canadian i was kinda split on who to cheer for but decided china bc of their unique strats and interesting characters. Also losing to two semi retired players would be kinda... Also it does make sense since they are an actual team outside of nations cup, whereas canada hera is on am, and the other 3 are solo. I feel like Yo did the douyu cup just to get practice b4 nations cup
SPOILER I don't think Canada lost Game 2 because they lost two of their home islands to Tim's raids. Most useful resources had already been extracted from the islands and Canada still had the villager advantage after the raids & controlled more space in the middle. I think one big reason why the game was lost was because of how painfully ineffective Slam's elephants were.
Yeah, the Elephants had their moments, but the Malay ones definitely aren't as strong as Khmer or Vietnamese ones. And then slam and Hera both had difficulty switching unit compositions once they lost their economies.
Adding trade early was probably important for Canada too once they had control of the land in the middle, although it's hard to say if that would have been practical or even possible on a map like this and with all the military China had. When the game was down to a trash war China just had much better civs for that situation. Maybe Canada just had to have a stronger push and end the game completely before gold ran out.
Exactly... The Dravidian Skirms attacking 25% faster is an nightmare too dealing quite well with the Genoese at times, then the elephants just never could sustain. Mostly Vietnamese & then I guess Khmer elephants can tank. The Malay ones just get eaten & it's not like he could hold so much water that he gets amazing fish-trap food income! I think basic Two handed Swordsmen would have worked best - move to an ally's island with a nearby castle (not perfect) and fish boom up a bit with a transition to mass food two handed and sling gold if needs be or use elsewhere. It's really even better since they get gambesons (skirmisher deterrent) & they don't take as much to tech into (armour upgrades) + destroy buildings equally as fast (if not more with numbers).
Losing the farm economy was absolutely devastating - that is an insane amount of food lost by losing three islands, regardless of the lack of wood, stone and gold. The elephants were weak, but the economy loss was back breaking, and was certainly what sealed the deal.
Spoilers: A group of friends in the U.K. (5 hours ahead) were coming on just as the draft finished so had to watch this later yesterday... YET I had called it from the first Spanish pick (or at least the drafting alone) - why not keep going with the Dravidians and your regular gameplans/playstyles first as they're almost a guaranteed win on migration, rather than pick Spanish which are situational & might FORCE a Re from your team. Also I've seen them do it every round this series with letting the opponent get Vietnamese & Magyars - I knew it would bite them hard, thought they had learned their lesson with the latter when it came to Chaos pit (AGAINST China too last time). I think everyone chalked it (the 1 loss before Finland) up to the Goth Sneak into the right-side corner FAR too much! The draft went too basic (my own conceptualisation which can explain if there is a request for it) here, particularly for water civs. I'm unsure if that's why I felt as if Slam had a relatively 'slow day of games'... or perhaps it was genuinely his day just was a rocky one. I'm not negative I just like to analyse & discuss, so thanks for reading it all & maybe commenting hopefully.
I feel like Canada made a few mistakes with drafting. Both not picking BF against China and with taking Spanish with the first pick, when that's a Nomad civ and they probably weren't going to win on Nomad against China anyway (I don't think any nation other than Finland can really be competitive with China on Nomad).
@@T-West Absolutely agreed. Allowing China to have both Dravidians and Vikings when both water maps are your home maps? Very strange decision. Canada opted to use throwaway civs on Nomad against China in their first set earlier in the tournament, and it worked out to win the series, so I'm not sure why they decided to change tact and go full-out with powerhouse civs on Nomad in this one. Realistically all they had to do was win their 3 home maps to win the series, since they started up 1 game, so investing so much into trying to win Nomad makes no sense from a strategical standpoint.
@@T-West One thing is since they were only playing 6 max maps instead of 7 x 8 = 48 civilisations... I would have liked the format to revert partially back to earlier where each team would ban 1 or 2 (probably not 3) civilisations. This would allow for any major upsets in terms of civ advantages to be truly put out without having to CAVE your whole draft around it. Dravidians + Portugese (team islands) or Spanish (Nomad)/Chinese (African Clearing) perhaps. The African Clearing Nomad is more than fine, I'd call it more situational (based upon map generation/starting locations - at least in the ranked map version). The Spanish pick for Nomad just 'forces' you to take a 'Re' I think rather than saving a 'Re' & as happened you don't always have the intel by 4:00 min to know if it's a good 'Re'. I think the moral of story ought to be 'if you take Spanish in a multi-nomad map tournament' take Vietnamese too! If they can't see the Spanish player they may base their 'Re' out early or something PERCEIVED yet not true or fail to 'Re' overall. Overall you get 3 chances to get them into a good position. Then for A.C. just pick to your strengths. It sounded in their call as if they had been practising quite a few different things there. So I wonder if that had a fair bit to do with the 'Missed Opportunities Draft' as I'm calling it.
Game timestamps (spoilers):
0:00:00 Introduction
0:00:36 Game 1
0:24:37 Game 2
1:11:02 Game 3
1:35:34 Game 4
2:06:13 Game 5
Love how it turns into actual mediaeval tactics at 00:22:15 with both sides building fortifications on either side of the wall; the small things that makes aoe2 great
honestly Tim played really well, you wouldnt imagine that he's considered their weakest player. As a chinese canadian i was kinda split on who to cheer for but decided china bc of their unique strats and interesting characters. Also losing to two semi retired players would be kinda... Also it does make sense since they are an actual team outside of nations cup, whereas canada hera is on am, and the other 3 are solo. I feel like Yo did the douyu cup just to get practice b4 nations cup
Crazy stuff (spoilers)
Tim and lyx be winning with that 30 some APM
13:27 IS THAT A SLAMJAM REFERENCE?!
SPOILER
I don't think Canada lost Game 2 because they lost two of their home islands to Tim's raids. Most useful resources had already been extracted from the islands and Canada still had the villager advantage after the raids & controlled more space in the middle. I think one big reason why the game was lost was because of how painfully ineffective Slam's elephants were.
Yeah, the Elephants had their moments, but the Malay ones definitely aren't as strong as Khmer or Vietnamese ones. And then slam and Hera both had difficulty switching unit compositions once they lost their economies.
Adding trade early was probably important for Canada too once they had control of the land in the middle, although it's hard to say if that would have been practical or even possible on a map like this and with all the military China had. When the game was down to a trash war China just had much better civs for that situation. Maybe Canada just had to have a stronger push and end the game completely before gold ran out.
Exactly... The Dravidian Skirms attacking 25% faster is an nightmare too dealing quite well with the Genoese at times, then the elephants just never could sustain. Mostly Vietnamese & then I guess Khmer elephants can tank. The Malay ones just get eaten & it's not like he could hold so much water that he gets amazing fish-trap food income!
I think basic Two handed Swordsmen would have worked best - move to an ally's island with a nearby castle (not perfect) and fish boom up a bit with a transition to mass food two handed and sling gold if needs be or use elsewhere. It's really even better since they get gambesons (skirmisher deterrent) & they don't take as much to tech into (armour upgrades) + destroy buildings equally as fast (if not more with numbers).
Losing the farm economy was absolutely devastating - that is an insane amount of food lost by losing three islands, regardless of the lack of wood, stone and gold. The elephants were weak, but the economy loss was back breaking, and was certainly what sealed the deal.
Very good podcaster. I hope you do more games
It’s not a podcast
I think he meant POG caster 😉
Thank you! I can't believe I missed the stream!
Lately Hera has been getting lambasted in team games on Nomad or African Clearing.
Spoilers:
A group of friends in the U.K. (5 hours ahead) were coming on just as the draft finished so had to watch this later yesterday... YET I had called it from the first Spanish pick (or at least the drafting alone) - why not keep going with the Dravidians and your regular gameplans/playstyles first as they're almost a guaranteed win on migration, rather than pick Spanish which are situational & might FORCE a Re from your team. Also I've seen them do it every round this series with letting the opponent get Vietnamese & Magyars - I knew it would bite them hard, thought they had learned their lesson with the latter when it came to Chaos pit (AGAINST China too last time). I think everyone chalked it (the 1 loss before Finland) up to the Goth Sneak into the right-side corner FAR too much!
The draft went too basic (my own conceptualisation which can explain if there is a request for it) here, particularly for water civs. I'm unsure if that's why I felt as if Slam had a relatively 'slow day of games'... or perhaps it was genuinely his day just was a rocky one.
I'm not negative I just like to analyse & discuss, so thanks for reading it all & maybe commenting hopefully.
I feel like Canada made a few mistakes with drafting. Both not picking BF against China and with taking Spanish with the first pick, when that's a Nomad civ and they probably weren't going to win on Nomad against China anyway (I don't think any nation other than Finland can really be competitive with China on Nomad).
@@T-West Absolutely agreed. Allowing China to have both Dravidians and Vikings when both water maps are your home maps? Very strange decision. Canada opted to use throwaway civs on Nomad against China in their first set earlier in the tournament, and it worked out to win the series, so I'm not sure why they decided to change tact and go full-out with powerhouse civs on Nomad in this one. Realistically all they had to do was win their 3 home maps to win the series, since they started up 1 game, so investing so much into trying to win Nomad makes no sense from a strategical standpoint.
@@T-West One thing is since they were only playing 6 max maps instead of 7 x 8 = 48 civilisations... I would have liked the format to revert partially back to earlier where each team would ban 1 or 2 (probably not 3) civilisations. This would allow for any major upsets in terms of civ advantages to be truly put out without having to CAVE your whole draft around it. Dravidians + Portugese (team islands) or Spanish (Nomad)/Chinese (African Clearing) perhaps.
The African Clearing Nomad is more than fine, I'd call it more situational (based upon map generation/starting locations - at least in the ranked map version). The Spanish pick for Nomad just 'forces' you to take a 'Re' I think rather than saving a 'Re' & as happened you don't always have the intel by 4:00 min to know if it's a good 'Re'.
I think the moral of story ought to be 'if you take Spanish in a multi-nomad map tournament' take Vietnamese too! If they can't see the Spanish player they may base their 'Re' out early or something PERCEIVED yet not true or fail to 'Re' overall. Overall you get 3 chances to get them into a good position. Then for A.C. just pick to your strengths.
It sounded in their call as if they had been practising quite a few different things there. So I wonder if that had a fair bit to do with the 'Missed Opportunities Draft' as I'm calling it.
@@Nysyarc Maybe they get overconfidence from previous games and want to overpower china on their strong suit.
Numba wan