Fret Leveling - Please view updated videos - links in Description:
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2024
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Fret Leveling - the hard way Vs the new easy way
This might be the best explanation and best engineered yet common sense idea I’ve seen in a long time. Love it
I own a number of vintage 7.25" Fenders and they always have issues with buzzing and dead spots. Because these are old instruments, it's hard to tell if these are really a fret level issues, fretboard level issues, or a mix. Two questions: For fret cloning to produce buzz-free operation, we're assuming a perfectly level board, right? Second question: we're also assuming there is variation in fret height from prior "old school" leveling techniques, where some frets are lower than others - so that we can clone to the lowest fret, right? Meaning, if you're doing a refret with new wire from the factory, what's the tolerance on that wire? If it's near-zero, then in theory the frets are already cloned and Maestro-ing shouldn't be necessary. Unless we're talking about height differences due to tiny variations in installation from fret to fret. In which case, you really aren't cloning any more - you're actually un-cloning them! If I'm understanding this correctly.
If the frets are off, means nothing to FretMaestro. If your necks are dried out or have been soggy in the past, you'll need to take a very close exam... look for parting line between fretboard and neck, delamination. If the neck is twisted, it's dead. So, all the death blows to fretboards and necks are not fixable with FretMaestro.
But, these death blows are not at all common. You are likely in good shape.
Where to buy:
sixstringers.com/#FretMaestro%20Prices
reverb.com/shop/guitar-picks-sixstringers-wild-plectrums
My question exactly- this is assuming you have a PERFECTLY flat and radiused fretboard, which is almost impossible for a guitar with a wooden fretboard.. The wood being organic and porous, even if sealed is still affected by temperature and humidity, causing very slight swelling and/or twisting along the board, which traditional fret leveling/crowning techniques are meant to correct. We're actually planing the fret crowns, not leveling them. If each fret is an exact clone of its neighboring frets in height, if there is any deviation in the fretboard at that spot, you will still end up with a high/low fret. Traditional leveling with flat beams corrects for these imperfections and changes in the board by sanding all the fret crowns down to the same plane. If you have a guitar that requires .020'' be taken off any fret, you have bigger problems and would need to remove all frets, re-radius the board, and install new frets. Even then, after fret install 99 times out of 100 you will still have to do some beam planing.. If I'm completely missing the mark here, someone please tell me. I mean no offence.
This makes more sense to me than anything I have seen on fret work. This guy knows what he is talking about for sure. Has it figured out. We are seeing the difference between craftsman versus technician.
I’m no luthier but years of mechanical and engineering experience and I’m getting ready to fix up my tele neck, a lot of flat frets decades of use. And the technologies and processes I’ve been researching make no sense to me, this is a precision instrument, we need precision tools. I believe this man has hit the nail directly on its head and drove it all the way home. Each fret needs to be delicately precision honed to clone every other fret to be “good” I’ll be saving up for this product and do it right the first time! Thank you six stringers! You’re a beast!
Man has built a hand plek. Better than radius blocks ..all in one ..Right on Man. THIS man knows what's up with frets ..
Looks good. The only 2 scenarios I can see this not working is on compound radius necks or multiscale necks where you'd have to have several of these to match the fretboard radius.
FretMaestro can do conical fretboard frets. For example 10-12-14, measure the neck from nut (fretboard side) to outside last fret, divide by 3, so for example 21" /3 = 7 then measure 7 inches put down tape, write on tape which fret changes to the next radius, then measure the next 7 inches and repeat, etc. Yes, this does require 3 FretMaestros, but that has not deterred people from taking control of their conical radius level, radius and crown jobs instead of paying for the only other option, PLEK.
Doing conical radiuses freehand is IFFY at best.
There are two types, those that every fret is different, and those where the three radiuses are stepped. In either case the difference between a 10" and 12" radius is very subtle and the goal of achieving more accurate string action is still achieved by the stepping method. For the absolute purest, go with PLEK.
I've been doing guitar repair for over 35 years, This is significant! it totally makes sense!
Thank you
Except that it's going to leave you with a fretjob that still needs to be levelled and dressed in the conventional manner if you are chasing low action....as in, Gibson's standards for action from the factory, which isn't really all that LOW.
Luthiers inventor of the decade award, I am buying one before SM buys you out , then charges like a randy bull. For anyone with GAS , this is a brilliant device. Congrats and thanku
So, since I have 4 different radius levels, it will cost me over $500 for just the basics to work on my 7 different guitars?
Or about $300 per guitar for fret level done right... so $2,100 for 7 guitars, and you still don't have the tools to do it really right on your own the next time.
i dont pretend to be a luthier, but taught guitar in a luthier;s shop for 2x years and picked up a bunch of tricks on set-ups. This really speaks to me as legit.
You'll get several more fret levels with FretMaestro as it removes the minimum material to get he job done better than ever. So it will be some longer time before having to replace the frets... $$$$
Agree. Stumbled on this yesterday after changing strings on my Strat and noticing some pretty bad fret wear. Have since investigated options over a wide range of prices. The best reviewed local luthier charges nearly $300 for fret job and setup and after further inspection I find I have several more guitars in need of the same treatment. On the subject of the minimum amount to be removed from frets for a perfect job, am I correct in thinking all frets need to be cut back to the height of the lowest point on the lowest fret? The spot with the most wear? I have decided to buy a basic set-up measuring set to establish radius on not only various guitars, but also various frets on a compound radius neck. I saw in another comment somewhere a question I shared about this being a new, and therefore unreviewed product. I think there may be a "chicken and the egg" component to this. If it is as good as it looks, it will get those reviews and by then it may well be too late and I may find myself at the wrong end of a long supply chain issue. FWIT I have contacted Steven with a few questions and he has been very helpful and quick in replying. Added to a system which will service all my guitars is the advantage, as he mentioned below, that I will get more fret job due to reduced removal of material. Not to mention the fact that I will be more likely to do them in the first place therefore keeping my guitars in better condition. Fret work has been the main thing stopping me from doing my own set-ups in the first place and this sounds idiot proof. I should be the ultimate test of that.
@@Jazman342 So I guess you might be what they call "heavy handed"? I am too, & I've learned to lighten my touch in a lot of areas, but how the hell do you lighten your touch with tremolo? You've got to dig in to get a clean vibrato with some staying power, so how do you do that with a light hand? I destroyed a poor MIM neck in less than two years. The poor thing looked like it had been targeted by a sharpshooter w/a BBgun. Any advice would be much appreciated, although you might be just as perplexed as me lmao. -Cheers
@@JeighNeither I still have my first guitar. Got it new, and the frets have dents in them now 😅 I have learned to play a lot lighter though
Thank you for passing along your knowledge. It's invaluable. I started working on my guitars out of necessity; I was too poor to pay anyone, & I wanted the best set-up I could get. Then I started designing partscasters & got into building pickguards & learning about soldering & wiring. The final step though is neck work. Your neck really is your instrument on a Strat. Your body wood will change the tone of the guitar, especially when you go w/a lightweight wood like Paulownia (added resonance), but an amazing set of pickups can negate most negatives you might pressive. Anyway, I digress, hearing from an old school maestro who has found a new way of doing things really is priceless.
I have been repairing Guitars for a living for 35 years, , I will be purchasing some of these.
good presentation , as I have no questions ,... like any tool, my questions will all be answered as I put them through their paces. Cheers !
So many of our customers are like you, they've have been working on guitars for decades. That speaks volumes.
Brilliant idea, precision engineering - all put together with a tall glass of common sense. Good job sir
I have 5 Fenders with 7.5” radius necks and all they need is the touch up they couldn’t do at the factory to play amazing, this looks like my answer.
I just did my first fret leveling job a few months ago. I wish I would have seen your video first. I'll be purchasing a FretMaestro for the next one. Coming from an auto body, and also saw filer background, FretMaestro makes perfect sense. Cheers!
I too came from the auto body business and was horrified at the process undertaken for fret leveling, thinking there has to be a better way.
That was also my first reaction when I saw how the old school tools and rules were used. I had paid for a fret level, it was not cheap, the results were acceptable in that the guitar played again without fret buzz, but I never wanted to pay for that again, especially because my frets were then a lot shorter and it was unlikely I could get another level on them using the old school tools and rules. That was the beginning of FretMaestro because today we have the ability to make better tools... that no one else did it before now I attribute to either stubborn pride or stuck inside the box blindness.
Took a while but i found them for sale on Reverb. I'm an engineer and work in thousandths every day. He's right about a few thousandths making a huge difference. Three days to straighten a neck is a bit ridiculous though... A guitar with excellent action no fret buzz has frets that are all within 0.004" or less.
Hmmm, FretMaestros are sold on Reverb, and you can also order direct and save a bit.
Actually wood moves as the grain settles to the truss tension, and since we're referring to using a sanding beam here, and you are aware of the value of thousandths, be very sure that the neck will move in thousandths until it completely settles after several small incremental truss adjustments along the way. Putting a straight rule on the neck right after adjusting the rod is a momentary read, the wood has not yet settled. You use the straight edge a few hours later to see if the true is still there, and of course the climate and humidity conditions cannot fluctuate too much. But whatever, because now we assume that the sanding beam is dead on and the sticky paper is a perfect gauge and so on... so many variables that if they are all leaning the wrong way adds up to trouble, or perhaps they all lean the right way, what luck. All of this is eliminated when you do one fret at a time, the width of the FretMaestro is .5" so will there be a bow or arch in any given .5" segment of the overall length of the neck... NO. As for fret buzz... fret wire is a .002" tolerance out of the extruder, and since the manufacturer does not say if this is +/- it is fair to assume that it is, hence a .004" variance is possible... so even a new guitar needs things cleaned up, which is why some sellers push for PLEK on new guitars. Ahhh, but that leaves the top of the frets flat. There is no absolute perfect... always some trade off... so if one is aware of all of the variables and trade offs and can measure those to their personal preferences then they can say with certainty that they are dialed in for themselves, but not for the next guy.
TIME AND PRESSURE OR TIME AND RELIEF. It's ABSOLUTELY true . The neck will move SLOWLY ...ITS not a baby birch limb. Imagine the Bows that were built in days of old ..they bent those OVER TIME ...
And then there are truss rods. Today's truss rods are excellent. Old guitars, depending how old, no truss rod, and the first truss rods were just okay.
2.5 million guitars sold per year in the USA... what percentage of guitars out there are not stable? Very few. The exceptions do not make the rule. FretMaestro works on 99% of the guitars out there today, the rule, not the exception.
2 questions: 1.What about a e.g. 10-14" compound-radius fretboard? It seems your product is only suitable for straightradius-fretboards?
2. You say you don't have to straighten the neck before. But you need a flat neck anyways, otherwise you couldn't measure, which frets are high or low.
Use a digital gauge to measure fret height, no need to flatten the neck. But yes, it is best to make sure the neck can be made flat before doing any fret work.
Conical Radius fretboard... FretMaestro OMNI Pro is made for this.
I've been doing fret leveling for a little while now, apparently the "old skool" way, and having some success, but as an engineer I've wondered about the design of those tools. I just stumbled on this today, and your claims make perfect sense - shaping a curved part using a flat tool isn't efficient nor is it repeatable. It looks like I'm going to have to become a Fret Maestro...
Yes. The compound radius file does it all at one time, level radius & crown. The OMNI Pro does also because of the controlled depth of cut, but as a straight file it is slower because only a small bit of the file contacts the fret at a time whereas the radius file once the true radius is established on the fret the contact is 100%. Other than a CNC fret level machine there is no other way to achieve the true symmetrical fret radius and crown. You are welcome to call with any questions - our contact page on our website: SixStringers.com
Thank you for your honest insight.
you absolutely can buy blocks of wood that are radiused to match the fretboard curve and put some sandpaper on it, easy peasy
@@SixStringersyou absolutely can buy blocks of wood that are radiused to match the curve of the fretboard
Yes, but the reason they are not widely used is that if the radius beam is not used perfectly straight, the frets are quick toast. While it is logical to use a radius beam, the reality is that it really must be on a guide to keep inline straight, the slightest variance and its a very sad day.
Flat beams are far more forgiving.
But all beams share the common issue of a fulcrum fret that see-saws the beam resulting in taller to shorter frets from the fulcrum to the low fret at the opposite end the beam will find to balance on. You see this more than you would think from shops... and for the newbie... it's almost guaranteed. And the frets originating from the fulcrum are progressively shorter in both directions. And the things is, we're talking about fret leveling, meaning the frets are different heights, otherwise we'd be talking about crowning.... so by definition of leveling it means there will always be a fulcrum fret. This is easily handled only when you know to look for the problem and to make two far enough apart taller frets uniform for the beam to balance upon without the see-saw before using the beam.
What if the tongue has a substantial rise that is resistant to a heat press and you need to wipe out a large portion of the last 4 or 5 frets to get a usable level?
Well think about that FretMaestro is a cutting file that also will give you the radius and crown... So... use it to address the fall off. It's not rocket science. And of course the word substantial is misleading... whereas using a number instead of generality provides a clearer understanding of what you are referring to. Also... it is possible that one might have to deal with the 15th fret upward, not only the last 4 or 5. No matter... if a sanding beam and a straight file can fix this, then FretMaestro can and does too, because again, it is a cutting file, with the bonus that you get a perfectly symmetrical radius and crown at the same time.
Amazing looking tools. Nice job.
Thanks 👍
I just want to say that I think you are really nice guy, a gentleman, I'm sorry people on other channels have said bad things about you brother
I forgot to ask about using them on Stainless Steel. Do they work? How long do they last compared to using them on regular frets? Thanks
How long does a diamond file last? How hard to you press the file?-- which you should not do.
Stainless Steel is not very hard actually. Diamonds are. No Contest.
This sounds great.....love the whole set up...!!!
Cheers
BEST ADVICE ON YOU TUBE ! THE OLD SCHOOL WAY IS HISTORY AND PAINSTAKING - FRET MAESTRO IS THE WAY TO GO IN 2024................THANK YOU FOR SHARING , ITS A GREAT INVENTION SIR AND MANY LUTHIERS AGREE ! 😎
Good to hear.
Cool tool😎👍
When will the Fret Maestro be available to guitarists wanting to service their own guitars?
😎✌👍❤🖖
Yes, for sure. Available January 12. Please use the contact form:
sixstringers.com/contact
We will let you know the when... on our Reverb Store.
reverb.com/shop/guitar-picks-sixstringers-wild-plectrums
This is awesome and your presentation is fantastic. Those diagrams are truly illuminating - thanks for putting in the work to create them. So much better than have someone explain this just with spoken words! Tell AND show - too rare these days! THANK YOU for this really sensible and eye-opening video!
Is it Available in the uk?
i Just stumbled on this ... sadly, i just finished my first stainless fret job, but definitely see the reasoning here.
i do my own fret jobs, because i would rather buy tools and do it myself .... i could still use something like that to get my action lower, so i am looking into it, Thanks.
to me, it's more about the job cleaning up with the frets higher.
Some one mentioned the material it forget what it is called and JI don't know is we can still buy it. I used it myself to make something back in the 1980's. It can be worked to close tolereces. One thing with tools is we have to learn how to use them. was made of. It looks loke a cloth resin combination similar to fibreglass that was used a lot in engineering in the forties and fifties. I
Phenolic is extremely tough and non abrasive, excellent machining tolerances. The only issue with it is the dust from machining it, terrible.
Changing to aluminum and precision laser cutting vs mill cut eliminated the dust concerns, and ensured material saving consistent tolerances at the same time.
I gotta say, this is brilliant.
I was planning on buying a fret levelling beam, after seeing this video that makes no sense to me. What a fantastic tool.
How about necks with a compound fretboard radius ? My guitar has a compound radius of 300 - 400 mm (11.81" - 15.75")
Would it be fine to file down each fret to a radius of 15"? Or maybe something like 14".
OMNI Pro is for all radius, we designed it specifically for Conical Radius Frets.
See on Reverb:
reverb.com/item/83068834-sixstringers-fretmaestro-omni-pro-fret-level-for-all-radius-frets
I would never make the frets the same radius on a Conical Neck Radius... that would be a disaster.
Isaw this months ago, and the reviews. The claim was that guitars are made on cnc so the finger boards are very level. I recently bought two buitars of the same model cnc made. One came with dressed and level frets and one came with frets that had kust been put in and they had sharp edges, but they did not need levelling, so lots of meat on them. the finger boards are indian laurel. it is a lot smoother than the rosewood finger boards i have. i have re fretted guitars before, but only once have put new frets in and not needed to level them. that tool looks like it can save a lot of time.
You were lucky not having to level new frets.
Indian Laurel Vs Rosewood smoothness has no bearing on how FretMaestro works. It goes across the grain, following and bridging the fretboard radius, ⅛" on both sides of the fret where there is no finger or string wear, this radius area is kept to original factory form, and being CNC made, excellent precision.
The claim that guitar necks and fretboards are CNC made these days is not a claim, it is fact. And they are very true and level such as is the nature of CNC machining results.
As for real reviews by people who actually have used FretMaestro, Vs those that have never seen let alone used it, see FretMaestro on Reverb for real reviews Vs naysayer malicious behavior.
It looks like a fun tool. I, however, wouldn't be able to use them due to the cost. I'm pretty good at leveling frets though so there is that, but I do like the tool and I really like the presentation.
Well, one guitar at a time. You will save lots of fret material which means buying more time before having to replace the frets. Replacing frets is not cheap thing.
This is great, but what about a compound radius??
Yes, but this require 3 to 4 radiuses. Will address this in a coming video.
The idea behind this product is brilliant. Simply potentially worldchanging for luthiers. I have not tried it so I can not judge at all how good it is. The tolerances etc.
Yes... and for now the FretMaestro looks like it is 50 years old out of the box... we don't make them to look like jewelry, we make them to do the job. The tolerances are vital. Cosmetics... nah... there are plenty of fret tools that glitter and shine like a diamond ring or such, like putting lipstick on a pig. Our central concern is that every fret is the same radius and height... those tolerances must be consistent. And that anyone can do it... no special skills or experience needed.
Now this is a great idea. One question, for *ideal* results on compound radius necks, like Jacksons (typically 12"-16") , you'd need 24 maestros....?
Not really. You have two choices - PLEK ,and get flat top frets, and the tolerance is .001" no better, and of course that is excellent. Or like other Conical necks that do not change every fret because that makes ownership a nightmare for fret work, if not impossible... step the radiuses and get not exactly the same but really the same benefits of the conical incremental steps.
Realize this... who is going to ever be able to level those without Plek or Maestro? No one, but I am sure many will claim the contrary. Good luck with that. So if you don't mind having to pay forever and ever for PLEK, because I don't see a another honest way of than Maestro, then sure. Replacing your frets that way, and that day will come... how much do you think for that and the PLEK to make the radiuses?
If you put a link in the video description I could have bought it faster. Can’t wait for it to come!
I'll look into that. Thank you.
This is bordering on a Divine Intervention! This is the Answer to the Prayers of guitar players everywhere! Every so often you come across a level of Human ingenuity that makes you extremely Grateful to your fellow Man's diligent efforts and makes you think, "Oh, Yes! Thank You God!" like when the first G-Shock watches hit the market. Well, this Genius level example of truly Fine tool instrument makes me feel truly relieved. Whew!
I have an old Les Paul with a twisted neck. As you get to the higher frets (14+), I get buzz, then eventually (17+) a very muted note. Wondering if this could help. Thoughts?
Fret level does not fix twisted neck. My view is that it is time for a new neck. As I understand it there is no real cure for twisted necks.
What would be the process involved to do a perfect compound radius...say 9.5 to 12? This adds a degree of difficulty to the whole thing. Typically takes me 2-3 hours for a single radius re-fret job and I've often wondered why the frets weren't pretty much dead on after installing brand new frets but even with a home made (pretty decent) neck jig station, there is almost always a couple of frets that have much more material loss. I now get praised for my fretwork but it took years of practice but I still need to rely on the PERFECT straightness of the neck. My second question would be do you offer a grouping price for all 11 tools? I am just now going to your website. I do admire problem solvers so I thank you!
The Pro 11 saves you $385.00
Fret wire is +/- .002" tolerance out of the extruder. So unless it was leveled right from the seller... it needs to be done. Yes, we offer the Pro 11 that saves you $385 overall.
sixstringers.com/call-to-order/
I’m impressed. I’ve always been concerned about keeping the radius in fret leveling.
Me too. I know better than to think I can carve 22 symmetrical frets with a straight file and zero guides for precision control. And I don't think anyone can, no matter what they claim. No one is a robot.
A fantastic, well-reasoned and executed product. It's still going to get expensive for anyone trying to work with compound radius fretboards, though, and I know of one Fender guitar with a 15.75" radius, so, although for most use-cases this is the perfect tool, there are some instances where, it seems, there are no easy solutions.
On that Fender 15.75 I would not hesitate to use a 15... you put a 15 and 16 side by side, if they are not labelled in production the only way to differentiate is to mic them, you would have a really tough time seeing the difference by eye.
Conical radius, (there is no such thing as a compound radius fretboard, I know it is common to call them that, but it is incorrect)... the cost of sending that out to get it done is more than 3 FretMaestros.
Oops - I see you've answered this question in previous comments 😉
Looks great....what's your thought on this tool when it comes to wide vs narrow frets?
Using the crown narrowing file... get what you like.
I would imagine you would want to check to make sure the frets were completely seated by the manufacturer also when you start the flattening process.
Yes, no doubt about that.
Use multiple Maestros for a neck with a compound radius (i.e. 10-16")?
Yes, know what your radiuses are and use those FretMaestros. Sometimes a weird one such as 11.25" which I would use the 11.5" FretMaestro for, but that's me. No way freehand filing is going make it that good. People are buying FretMaestros for this application choosing this listing:
reverb.com/item/78054296-fret-level-file-fretmaestro-any-4-ideal-for-compound-radius-frets
I was going to ask the same question! I have a few Fender Ultra guitars which all have 10” - 14” compound radius necks.
Yes, multiple Radius FretMaestros, and do not make the up scale frets shorter as so many think has to be... the compound radius combined with the fan of the string line already does that. for 10-14 the 10+12+14 is excellent... save some bucks and get the ANY 4 Set, if you play acoustic as well, add the 16" to that, you're set.
I am making a video for Compound Radius Fretboards, hope to have it up this weekend.
@@stoneglad
Yeah, get the 10+12+14 add in the 16 for acoustics, good to go. I am making a video for this subject, will be up this weekend.
How to know where to use what radius... yes, the makers do not reveal this relevant nugget of wisdom, but 3 radiuses, divide neck into three zones... by equal distance - check the 3 FretMaestro to the Fretboard, use a flashlight to peep light to see the gap if any, likely in most case there will be a very slight difference between Maestro radius and actual radius as the fretboard is CNC machined... select the closet Maestro, locate the change of radius key frets. mark them... and take notes for future reference and tuck away in the Maestro Box or in the guitar case. Anyhow, more on this in the upcoming video.
@@stoneglad
Nice. I was sold almost from the very beginning. I look forward to trying these.
Very knowledgeable person. Thanks for this educational video.
Would you try to hammer the frets in first before you file them?
Hmmm.... I prefer a fret press if the fret needs seating.
Somewhere in your video you mentioned tape? Do you tape all the wood? Do you measure with the fret guage, with or w/o the tape on?
Blue painter's tape... .005" gauge is the common. That is factored into the depth of cut. Use the gauge before tape. No need to tape everything. I tape for one fret, pick up the tape and move to the next, when not sticky enough then new tape. But.... you must first make sure on the 1st 3 maybe 4 frets that you found the dialed in depth of cut that will then work for all of the rest of the frets... then you are off and running.
Thanks. Very logical adding the .005" after original depth is decided Thanks, Great ivention..@@SixStringers
I have always wondered if there was a better way and here it is. Will be purchasing one soon.
I think this is brilliant and I love it.. thank you for changing the game and saving us time and money..!
That's the plan... get rid of old carpentry tools being used for compound radius frets.
What happens when you get up on to the body in the higher frets? You mentioned this at the start of the video but conveniently didn't show how this tool performs with this issue? Will you have enough room to rock it far enough without scratching the body? My gut feeling says "no" and I don't want to drop that much money to find out. I'd love to see a followup video showing this part of the process.
Do the same thing but take the last few frets down .003". As for guitar body, non issue. Fret Maestro is 4" long Does not get obstructed by the body of the guitar.
congratulations mate, i think you have sucessfully made your millions.
I get to make people happy... we guitarist no longer have to fret taking the guitar in for this and worrying if the guy is going screw it up or not, and then have to pay for that as insult added to injury. Been there done that... really did not like that at all. And either would anyone, but it happens all the the time.
I like the video, but "compound radius" means something entirely different. It is not related to the frets having "2 radii", 1 for following the fretboard contour and 1 for the actual crown radius, somehow "compounding" these 2 radii. Compound radius means that the fretboard starts off with 1 radius at one end (e. g. 12" at the nut) and gradually changes along the way, until it reaches another radius at the other end (16" at the last fret), thus having an overall compound radius, which is ever-so shifting. I get what you were trying to say, but that terminology is already taken for decades now. The best for your case is saying "2 radii". Keep the videos coming!
No.. what you describe as a compound radius on the fretboard is not that at all, you are actually describing a Conical Radius.
Frets are Compound Radius. Most fretboards are cylindrical radius, and then some are Conical (root word cone) radius.
@@SixStringers I do agree with you on how things *should have been* named, I myself raised that tipic as well in the past. However, my point was that when you say "compound radius" in 2024, you'll send out the wrong expectation, as everybody knows it for what a conical radius should be. Other than that, you are right.
No argument from me except that we really need to use the correct terminology in order for our minds to more readily and correctly grasp the concepts. I taught English for 8 years... this does not mean I do not use some words inappropriately, we all make mistakes, but words Do Matter. But just because the majority is wrong does not mean the rest of us must buy into that. Better we try to correct the wrong and make the world a better place.
@@SixStringers Absolutely agree, we should try to enforce correct terminology through the power of example, else nothing will change, and it's already a very steep climb. It makes me laugh a bit cause there are certain words that *always* make me go bananas when people use them for what they're NOT and I tend to be a bit agressive in my attempts to correct that in them (I even dedicate small portions of my seminars to that) so, I think I really see eye to eye with you on this one, nothing else to say other than *correct*!
@@SixStringerssomeone should tell all the guitar manufacturers who refer to their necks as having a a compound radius.
Ernie Ball Music Man Sting Ray Bass…
11 radius…
Thoughts?
11.5" - I would use... it is next to impossible to measure that on a fret... stack an 11.5 next to a 12 you cannot be sure which is which. Requires machine shop instruments. Up to you.
I have 24 quitars. Everything from electric, classical, acoustic, ukulele. How do I know which ones I need?
They do not all need work at the same time unless you are fixing them to sell. What's the deal ?
@@SixStringers
Right. Fret leveling needed on a Tele, Gibson LP, and a Strat. Everything else is good. Thank you!
Great explanation, I can see these being a massive time-saver 👍
Brilliant...! The longer I watched, the more amazed I became!
Thank you
I have a 12inch, a 10 inch and a 9.5 inch. Do I need go buy all there radiused tools at 3 x 80 dollars?
FretMaestro is not $80. The $80 is for the Dble side "V" Crown Narrowing File.
In a couple of week we will have a FretMaestro Omni, universal frets. It is not as fast working as the radius FretMaestro but it does all frets. We designed it for Conical Radius fret boards. It comes with 3 diamond files, 150 grit for the heavy Leveling work, + 300 grit for finish + 240 grit "V" Crown Narrowing File that does not cut off the top, only the sides to narrow the crown because leveling frets widens frets, changes play feel and intonation. $200
When you consider that Big Luthier Tool seller sells 3 bent straight files designed only for crowning, for $385 .... FretMaestro is a bargain. The game of numerous different tools for leveling frets adds up fast.
if youre a startup and looking to get going thre are outlets for that. kickstarter etc. dont try to fund production with preorders.
I think you are not following what is going on here. We are not taking preorders, we are in production and shipping, but we are swamped so the shipping is delayed. We have some radiuses sold out, customers want to prepay, we do not do that because we do not want to lose an order and not ship it. Meanwhile we are already upgrading machinery. But hey, thanks for the input.
Maybe next time ask instead of stating something you do not know as a fact.
Do you have a tool or technique for filing fret sprouts on the edge of the neck?
Not at the moment.
A needle file from any hardware store. I've done fret ends numerous times with the same needle file. Tape the fret board to protect it and gently file and round the ends. You don't need a fancy tool to do this, just a good eye.
@@AnthonyMonaghan Key word "Gently"
Would help with a fancy tool to get bullet round edges quicker, especially when it comes to stainless where commonly sold needle files will have a short life.
Yes, stainless is tough on diamond files... cannot press into it, must use the weight of the file.
Stainless does not clog as the grit particulates into hard granules whereas nickel is soft and the grit melds together.
Pressing hard on SS frets knocks the grit out of the nickel plating that occludes the grit to the substrate.
The torque digging into SS is greater than the torque needed to dismount the diamond from the file.
So once again... use the weight of. the file instead of digging in.
Just brilliant! Absolutely convincing.
Can i use this on stainless steel frets or would that ruin the fret maestro?
Lots of people asked this... these are diamond files, much harder than the stainless steel. Use the weight of the file... do not jam it to the fret... then no issues as is true with all quality diamond files.
Great invention. What is the tolerance on the depth of cut?!? 0.001"?, 0.002"?
Good question. That depends on the starting height of the fret to the depth of cut of the FretMaestro. Say you have a divot that is .007" - and the fret height is .053" so you set FretMaestro to .051" which is a setting #3, you would be removing .002" material which in this example is .0013" more than the divot ... extrapolate form here. Basically you are looking at .0015" average gross tolerance in this regard. Did I understand your question correctly?
GENIUS! Thank you!
You bet!
Defiantly picking up one or two of these! One is half the price of one fret dress in my area. Plus the months long wait! So glad I don't have variable radius necks or Id need 21 lol. My favorite Strat needs work and I was just going to pull them and put on EVO frets. I still may, but this will also help my builds be even better. Thanks.
Ive always thought this but no one ever mentions it
I think you mean the unavoidable destruction the sanding beam does to frets.. is that correct?
Most tools have evolved over time to make the work not only easier, but also with superior precision results.
Innovations in tooling and tools have brought us most of the things we greatly appreciate today that would not otherwise be possible.
But until FretMaestro, Fret Leveling tools have not evolved, having been stuck in 19th century limitations long after the technology to innovate has been available. It's strange, but true.
And as is true Vs all disruptive innovations, the defenders of the 19th century fret leveling tools and rules are screaming as loud as they can from their trenches for no other reason than to keep everyone stuck in their game so that the rest of us will still have to pay them to use those archaic sanding beams and free-hand files.
Ultimately, innovation prevails. And that's very good for everyone, even for those that rebel against it in the beginning.
Well done, at-last the right tool for the right job. You have given us "New" made to measure tool which should be like a Swiss army knife to every Guitar player. Thanks! BTW, excellent design, it keeps your hand closer to the fret so you are able to feel what the Fret-Maestro is doing.
Thank you
compound radius? didnthear much about that. so im sue you have done the math. how many radius are generally needed?
Typically 3
I was just wondering, but what about compound radius fret boards?
I get that question a lot. You would need 3-4 FretMaestros. Or you would need PLEK. I would never consider freehand methods.
What do you do if your fret board radius is 12" to 16" like my Warmoth neck ?
The difference between 12" and 16" appears large until you put them next to each other, put a 14" in between and you must look very carefully, and I mean very carefully to see the steps from 12 to 14 to 16. This is so subtle that free hand filing has no chance with it. So that leaves two choices... a PLEK, or 3 FretMaestros.
I will make a video showing these and another series of radiuses stacked together and you can decide what is best for you. Customers are getting a set of three FretMaestro radiuses to do their compound radiuses.
warwick spec for my bass is 26" radius
got one of those in the works by any chance?
No problem, use the OMNI Pro universal FretMaestro for all radii.
See on Reverb.
I have about 10 guitars and no idea what radius. Whats that gonna cost. I can probably measure radius but not fret hight
Check manufacturer specs, or but Radius gauges and check, be careful, use a flashlight to show gap is any, the difference between 10 and 12 inches is very subtle, the flash light will reveal that.
Coming from a background of building custom percussion instruments, I appreciate the attention to choosing specific tools made for the precise purpose of designing a surface with compound radii or any specifically precise and consistent curve. Though the application to guitar frets is somewhat different than what I’ve done, the logic is very similar. I think your explanation is very clear and you covered the logic behind the various considerations very well. I’m much more inclined to try setting up my own fretted instruments after seeing this, so thank you very much! I’m not sure yet about how the radius differs between guitars to basses, ukuleles, octave mandolins etc and whether those tools work for those instruments, but I bet there is a best tool for each case that works in this way of working on one fret at a time and removing minimal amounts of material, without the absurd “flat tool on a round fret” problem.
Love this!
My guitar claims to be 12”-16” radius so would I have to buy two?
Sounds like you have a conical radius fret board. We have a new version coming out for that we call FretMaestro Omni. It handles all radiuses but is not as fast. That said, you will have perfectly symmetrical frets for peak play and tone. Contact us: sixstringers.com/contact/ and will let you know when available, we expect next week or the one after.
You're definitely a talented toolmaker
The first time I saw flat beams and straight files with only eyeballing and guess work as the way to level , radius, and crown frets I was appalled. This is 2024, not 1924... we have the capabilities to make far better and far more logical tools today than to continue suffering using wood working tools, which is all that was available way back when, adapted for compound radius frets (long radius + crown radius), and yet it had not been done except for a $250,000 CNC fret machine. We use shaper blades and bits for everything else these days to produce precision shapes and dimensions, why not for frets. FretMaestro.
Good video, man. The 2 things I don't do are frets and nuts. I'd rather give my guitar to a person who has real experience in these areas because I want it done well, seems like if I were close to you, you'd be that guy!
Don't fret the level, Maestro your frets. Anyone can do it better than a shop using old school tools and rules.
Would this tool work with stainless steel frets?
Yes, diamond files are much harder than stainless, and stainless is friendlier to the file than soft nickel that clogs a file file much easier.
how would you use this,or could you use this on a scallop neck?
You cannot use it to level those, but you can perfect the radius and crown by being deliberate and careful.
I will get around to making a video on this subject.
@@SixStringers Cool. Thanks..
I think we all have, at a certain moment, thought about this: there's something that doesn't make sense in the traditional system. Some people have even tried things like using radiused wood sanding blocks, but it's impossible to make them run over the frets perfectly parallel. And you end up with less material, whatever you do. We need another way. I've paused the video, I don't know what he is going to propose. I have been thinking of a possible way, let's see if it's similar. The video runs again.
Yes, one would think the radius sanding beam is ideal, but as you said, a tough proposition to run it straight so as not to completely whack out the frets.
Flat sanding beams suffer the same flaw albeit more forgiving, except now the fret radius is angular in a random way making it necessary to attempt reforming the fret radius with a straight file, which is counter intuitive for a compound radius fret. And eyeballing it is the only way, guess work, meaning that one will never get one symmetrical fret let alone 22 consecutive symmetrical frets. And straight filing has no depth of cut control and so it changes the fret height cut by the sanding beam. No matter what anyone says, flat beam and straight files are only good for getting so-so results. Geometry is the math; the math does not lie.
And yes, the old school tools and rules that have been in play for far too long are adaptations of wood working tools for working frets... back in the day that was what they could do, and getting close enough to eliminate fret buzz was accepted because that was as good as it got.
I think everyone knows, admit it or not, that perfectly symmetrical frets are the only way to maximize the guitar set up which in turn makes it truly possible to optimize play and intonation.
Asymmetrical frets work, no doubt, have been from the beginning, but the tradeoff comes at the price of not getting optimized play and intonation.
It really depends upon what one is looking to get from their guitar. The success of the PLEK is testament that there are enough players who do care.
On a neck and fret board that are not damaged, and are machine made vs handmade... it is easy for anyone to Maestro their own frets to absolute precision symmetry, hence making it possible to maximize the setup and hence optimize the play and intonation. (Handmade fret boards made by a competent luthier are also consistent without bumps and rolling highs and lows the length of the fret board.)
FretMaestro takes off the bare minimum amount of fret material to extend the life of the frets many times over.
The naysayers claim that fret boards are bumpy, so that the only way to get same height frets is with a flat beam. Hmmm, the only bumpy fret boards I have ever seen are weather damaged by either too much or too little humidity.
Finger wear on the fret board is a different story; FretMaestro bridges over them, they have no influence on how FretMaestro makes perfect symmetry of the fret. Also, finger wear never exists right next to the fret because the string angle off the fret makes that impossible, such that on either side of the fret there will always be at least .125" without finger wear, and the FretMaestro fits within the non-wear boundary.
Necks on older guitars without a truss rod... that is why the string tension simulator was made.
Guitars with truss rods; if the truss rod is not damaged it should be no problem to flatten the neck, albeit patiently. If the neck cannot be made flat, what happens when using a sanding beam? Trouble!!! In this understanding it is also understood that the sanding beam on a flat neck is also measuring to the fret board for fret height, even though the beam itself does not register off the fret board the way FretMaestro does, and unlike FretMaestro, a sanding beam destroys the crown and the radius of the fret while at once creating random fret height by the imperfect angular strokes that is the inherent nature of a flat sanding beam on a compound radius fret.
Twisted neck... not a conversation... replace the neck.
Dreaded "S" Curve - can be and has been successfully handled by FretMaestro. Impossible to do with a sanding beam. Customer Video entitled "FretMaestro to the Rescue" explains this. Not all "S" curves are fixable by fret work... more often replacing the neck is the only fix, or stripping off the fret board, replacing the damaged truss rod, and so on.
Today there are only two ways to achieve perfectly symmetrical frets: pay for a PLEK service, or do it yourself with FretMaestro. FretMaestro cost much less, and you can use it time and again Vs paying again and again each time for a PLEK service.
@@jordimateubartroli951 if you think about it though, when you add sandpaper to a radius block, you’ve already changed the radius.
Yeah, do the math... the fret height adds to the fretboard radius, the nature of concentric circles.
You are grasping at straws here.
What do you do if your neck is compound radius?
ruclips.net/video/6pw8bTyae10/видео.html
Watch our video on OMNI Pro.
What's your take on the concept of fall-away on the upper register?
Pretty simple, set FretMaestro to the next depth of cut and take off .003" at most when the Maestro bottoms out.
Or gauge it by sense to go less than .003". These are not the frets many people play, but if you do... you've been around long enough to know how to handle it with FretMaestro.
Very interesting. I have to check this out. It sounds like the sort of tool that would fit nicely into my workflow.
If your sliding back and forth to level, even if it has the proper radius, wouldn’t the lower part of the file always touch the fret?
You need to watch more carefully. Depth off cut means all part of file, hence all parts of file contact at the same depth no matter what. Geometry and Physics. Even if the file is straight and has depth of cut limit, this is true.
Heck yeah! Well done.
Very Illuminating. I doff my hat to you sir.
Bravo, brother, may you reap rich rewards for inventing this. This is what capitalism intended - that the better idea wins the day. I'll be ordering.
How do you compensate for string pull without a Jig?
No need. We are only work a .47" width of the fretboard... there is no bow or arch in .47" length of the fretboard. If you have that, your guitar is shot.
I don’t fix the guitar myself but this tool can help understand Fretwork. Good on you and my respect for you. Do you play guitar well? Looks like you do!!!
I have never considered myself an accomplished player, there are so many who are so much better than I will ever be. It is one of those things in life I wish I had a greater gift for, but then the trade could be that I did not have the gift to work out FretMaestro. That's life.
Thank you Sir
Very important info... definitely gona order these tools ...👍
Can I buy one bro I'm a luthier in school we used a fret by fret system this could really work for me cuz I take the absolute least material off frets as possible
Yes, for sure. Available January 12. Please use the contact form:
sixstringers.com/contact/
looks like a hand held plek machine.. nice process.. but what about the shredders with 12-16 compound radius guitars?..would need at minimum 12, 14 and 16 radius.. ?? will one set do both SUPER JUMBOS and vintage high narrow?..
The files will do the fret sizes... and use the V Narrow Crown file to dial in.
For Conical Radius Fretboard, yep, you need 3... but would you really want to try and use guess work using flat beam and straight files. And what would it cost to tale it to a shop? Do the math.
Oh my. I have compound radius fretboards.
No problem: FretMaestro Universal OMNI Pro is specifically made for Conical Radii.
ruclips.net/video/FpcVn6wv060/видео.html
Where can I buy this?
Thanks
sixstringers.com/call-to-order/
Save when you buy direct. And we can talk and cover any questions you may have.
Ingenious!
Thank you
Well done. For a second I thought the dials were rollers for bending fret wire! And I thought “my God”. But then you explained it, and I thought: “my God”. I build necks btw.
You have an interesting sense of humor.
So, you build necks. So many naysayers here say that necks are never flat, that they have highs and lows like a sort of roller coaster along the length of the neck. They also say the neck radius is not consistent. I know CNC made necks are as close to perfect as perfect gets, but they ignore that.
What do you say? What sort of tolerance would there be?
6:06 This is why I use a thinner flat sanding beam, this way I can go with the angle of the radius, starting from left to right folowing the fretboard radius to reduce ending with flat frets likes the one you show in the video.
Thinner flat you say... makes no difference at all because it is a flat on a radius, no matter how wide or thin/narrow the flat, the exact same amount of flat surface area contacts the radius surface. Basic geometry.
@@SixStringersWhile I understand there’s a downside with using a curved sanding block (difficult to maintain an even sanding motion & pressure, & unintentionally sanding some frets more than others), do you find this to be the best approach for fret leveling outside of using your Fret Maestro device (assuming the radius of the sanding block matches the fret radius)?
I’d love to purchase your product but unfortunately ongoing health issues have prevented me from working much, & I can’t afford it.
While I understand & agree with your mentions about the flaws with the traditional sanding beam & block methods, & that your device remedies these problems, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the next best option for fret leveling, outside of using the Fret Maestro.
While not an ideal solution like the Fret Maestro, would you suggest a curved sanding block as the next best solution for fret leveling? Again, I understand this method doesn’t solve the issues your device does, before you created the Fret Maestro what tool did you find offered the least amount of fret damage & produced the ‘best’ results?
I’d appreciate any advice you could provide. Currently my guitars are unplayable (need few leveling), so I need an inexpensive solution that will do the least amount of damage. Thank you.
Next best.... PLEK.
Sanding beams destroy the fret shape, so then guesswork hand filing to reconstruct... but of course no one is a robot, so the reconstruction will be helter-skelter, hence the setup will be compromised. It is simply the nature of free hand work with tools that were not designed for the task... old school tools were adapted from old woodworking tools.
Interestingly, woodworkers left those tools behind long ago, imagine if they had not.
@@SixStringers Thanks for the reply. I wish I’d known about your product before I purchased a sanding beam & files. I also think I screwed up the frets on my Squire Tele because I failed to properly address the neck relief beforehand, on top of the excessive amount of metal that gets shaven off. I’ve since then had to quit working due to health issues & can’t afford to purchase any thing else or send my guitar in for a Plek job. That’s what I get for trying to do the leveling myself, based on a half assed video tutorial that failed to mention that step.
Sorry to hear your plight. You have lots and lots of company in that.
Those 19th century tools sell a lot online... the budget kind and the ridiculous $129 price for a beam from you know who... and those newbies ruin their frets quick. But, few, unlike you, have the salt to admit it. I would love to hear from everyone who has trashed their guitars with those archaic tools and methods.
I have seen plenty who lie, oh yeah, sorted my frets in 30 minutes using a beam and files, absolutely perfect awesome... uh huh, that is such rubbish, but you know, you hear it a lot, and no doubt this gave you false confidence.
Sanding Beams and free-hand files require extreme practice to get a handle on... those that manage it charge a lot of money for half baked results and get away with it because they know that to try and do it as an unpracticed DIY results in disaster most of the time, if not always.
19th century tools that were never intended for the job of leveling frets, but it creates a niche specialized market that those who make their living from are now screaming loud and louder to defend from 21st century FretMaestro, after all, when you really can level, radius, and crown your own frets to CNC precision with in the palm of your hand CNC Precision FretMaestro... you won't be paying them.
By definition, this makes FretMaestro a Disruptive Innovation, and disruptive innovations are always met with stubborn opposition from those that stand to lose income because of it.
Fret Leveling represents about 70% of guitar repair work/income... so yeah, they don't like FretMaestro.
Will this cut stainless steel frets?
Of course. It is diamond, it will cut titanium.
I have never leveled and crowned frets on a guitar. My Stratocaster frets are starting to look rough, I think it’s time for a level and crown so I watched several tutorials on doing this and could not believe the neck had to be flattened. The correct relief is hard enough to achieve, and now I have to flatten the neck? I don’t think so. Also, some of the leveling beams were flat (some are radiused). How in the world would a flat beam work with a radiused neck? I was confused, I thought I was completely missing the boat on this. Today I watched this video, and now it all makes sense. Thank you Steve for the video! I know how I will level and crown my strat!
This thing looks great! Eliminates so much of the excess material removal.
Heighth is not a word tho. “Length, Width and Height”. Sorry, yeah I’m being THAT douche right now.