Dude I stumbled on this video looking at .410 ammo online, I have been looking for a video testing the .410 shockwave like this for weeks and youtube never showed me this one or maybe I just assumed it would be the judge/governor testing. Maybe add shockwave in the title or thumbnail. But I appreciate you none the less!
Excellent video! This evaluation of the .410 Shockwave is long overdue. Thanks for the work! When I visited the Winchester booth at the 2013 SHOT Show, I asked them why they added the BB shot to the PDX load when the discs worked well on their own. Their response...."Sizzle". I was polite enough not to respond "BS". Since then, I've considered the PDX .410 round as trash ammo and avoided it at all cost. I hope you revisit this topic with the Federal Handgun .410 rounds using 000Buck and #4 shot. I also hope you look at the .410 slug rounds from the Shockwave as well. I know it may not be as accurate as a rifled pistol, but seeing the results in this testing method would be groundbreaking. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the video. This helped me decide to go with the 3" 000 5 pellet for my 410 home defense shotgun. Solid group at 25 ft. Would love to see this tested on a Paul Harrell meat target. Great job.
*BOTTOM LINE:* 1) skip unrifled slugs in CQB. 2) 3-ball/2.5" versus 5-ball/3" should go with 3-balls, as the balls track closely and the last two will not pave new ground, whereas having an extra round available ("Yay!!") could be a life-saver.
Excellent video! If you haven’t already, you should try the Kel-tec KSG410. Also, you should test 410 vs. building materials such as sheet rock and brick for over penetration in the interior home defense scenario.
I admit to watching this for the gel test with the 3" 410 OOO Buck 5 pellets. I'm interested for pistol use. I know it's not practical but out of a Bond Arms Rowdy XL derringer is a lot of fun. I do have the Mossberg Shockwave in 12GA using Buckshot Minishell 1 3/4 in. | 5/8 Oz | 4B (7p) 1B (4p) . I believe a 12GA using Minishells in the Shockwave makes more sense for close quarters because you DON'T have to aim so precisely as the 410 but still has manageable recoil.
Although I am late to this party, last year I tested multiple .410 buck shot loads and the PDX1. My results were very similar. The buck shot were my favored all around loads. The PDX1 was somewhat inconsistent in patern and penetration, but, could be effective at closer ranges of 3 to 6-7 yards. Great video. Sorry I didn't see it before I bought two boxes of the Critical Defence last month.
Crimson Trace laser saddle. Green. Also, now I want to see the Critical Defense out a Governor. Great vid though. Unexpected topic and very informative.
Look for someone testing the 4 pellet 000 buckshot out of the Federal 410 2 1/2 at 10-12 feet..Or better yet, look for the youtube test Jerry Miculek did with it...That's the best CQB load for the Governor. Mine goes out with 3 in the front backed up by 3 .45 Colt..
One thing I think gets overlooked is that .410 indoors isn't going to be as harsh and disorienting as 12 gauge. Not hearing safe but probably won't delete your ear drums either.
My .410 shockwave had to go back for warranty service to get the left extractor functional. They cut the chamber groove for the extractor deeper and it now extracts perfectly. The chamber step does hang up on the odd shot with 2.5" shells. 3" feed perfectly and thats what I would use for serious purposes. I've been experimenting with my .410 shells and had similarly good results with 3" Buckshot. Herters, Winchester and Federal all patterned extremely well. And I have confidence in 5 pellets of 000 to have adequate terminal ballistics. Shorter shells with less pellets or smaller pellets not so much. One issue I ran into was that the gun shot quite high with the plain bead. Luckily the scoup mount hole pattern is the same on the .410 model as the 12 gauge guns and a scope rail is cheap. I'll be mounting a red dot to mine and expect it will be a lot easier to shoot and zero.
@@sh1529 I bought the gun last year and it had extraction issues out of the box. Like I said the relief cut for the extractor wasnt cut deep enough from the factory. I tested it after warranty service and it works fine now. The warranty service included cutting the relief cut deeper so that was definitely the problem as I had diagnosed.
"Unique to the Critical Defense 410, the 41 caliber FTX slug actually engages the gun's rifling and contacts the target nose-on, enabling the patented Hornady Flex Tip technology to assist in expansion for greatly enhanced terminal performance." Does your shockwave barrel have rifling? It would make a difference to test this particular ammunition in a rifled barrel to be a fair comparison.
A mutual friend of ours had a Mossy .410 SBSed and loaded with the 3-pellet 000 stuff, specifically for family members who lacked the size and strength to run a 12ga. For that specific context it made sense, and gave good service. Having the buttstock on it made a huge difference over a shockwave, though I do think the .410 in particular would go well with Rhett's cheeky breeky technique.
000 buckshot would be the best bet if you're gonna use .410 for defense, that's just my personal opinion. A .410 3 inch shell with 000 buck is 5 .36 caliber pellets, like being hit with two .45 ACPs at once.
@@MrRevolver Yeah. I carry a .38 Special myself. I keep +P JHP in my gun (Federal Punch to be exact). I know +P has higher recoil and can increase wear over time, but I just feel more comfortable with the fact that the bullet moves a little faster and hits a little harder.
The judge 2 and 3 inch versions hit with the same amount of pellets and the 2 inch barrel does 18 inches in gel. Too much spread? Not for its intended use its not. The spread is only 3 inches at 7 yards.
Great video! I use my .380 mold (for my 61 Navy) to make buckshot. They won't fit in plastic hulls well, but do just fine in magtech. Shoots well through full choke (.395) guns and hits like a sledgehammer using 3 pellets over 15 g h110. Just a way to get more milage out of an existing mold
I really expected there to be a lot more interest in this subject than the number of views indicated so far. To me the 410 Shockwave and Henry Axe (despite Axe only handling 2 1/2 inch shells) are much better options than the Judge and Governor for those looking at 410 options despite your almost kind comments regarding the Judge. Frankly it's kind of a surprise the 410 Shockwave is not more popular. My best guess is most of the people buying the 12 guage Shockwave aren't really shooting them that much. The 20 guage is often touted as a good Shockwave option, but it's lighter so you lose some of recoil benefit and there are just fewer ammo options for 20 guage these days than 12 offers. I have an old single shot 410 that has a grooved notch in top of the receiver that lines up with the front bead which allows you to almost aim it more like a rifle than a shotgun if needed. This leads me to believe most 410s would benefit from a red dot sight since as Caleb pointed out 410s require more skill and work than their larger guage relatives.
For home defense, there's not much loss. Even the 2 inch barrel judge does 18 inches in gel with multiple wound channels per trigger pull and you have less chance of someone meeting you in a doorway with that longer barrel.
Hard to say in terms of recoil, but I'd definitely prefer the ballistics from the 410 over the mini-shells. Plus the 410 is probably going to be more reliable
@@MrRevolverI've put probably 350 rounds of mini shells through my 12 ga shockwave and it runs flawlessly and kicks like a 410. I can one hand shoot it easily. Plus it holds like 9 rounds total.
Back when Saigas were available and cheap, I often entertained the idea of picking up one in .410. Lighter recoil and higher capacity in a semi shotgun intrigued me. Never did it though.
The Mossberg 510 Bantam or 505 Youth model .410 shotguns work very well and are in the same price range as the Shockwave. The buttstock is very short but allows you to shoulder the weapon and get a good sight picture. It is also just long enough to put a rifle butt cuff on it to hold 9 extra .410 shells.
Thinking with the PDX1 ammo. I would feel more sorry for the surgeon that has to find and remove all the bb's from an attackers guts than I would for the attacker. He would probably need a colostomy bag after that.
I always kind of thought the Shockwave would be good, say, inside an RV where there is very limited Mobility I'm not sure it would be worth it over a pistol in 410 however
Ok i normally like your content but this one isn’t just long, it’s unbearably long. There’s A LOT of dead time you could cut out and even more rambling(this is something you do in every video but the others are 7-10m and it’s bearable in those) 36:20 is where you actually get to the point of the vid. I put it on 1.5x speed at the start and still skipped from minute 7 to 35. Clicked through the middle section but none of it seemed worth the time investment. I think all the shot spreads and stuff is still worth showing, but in a much more abreviated way. We don’t even need to see you shoot the target unless you do something weird like between your legs. Anyways, don’t let me get you down, there’s people that will watch this entire thing all the way through. I’m just not one of them.
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Dude I stumbled on this video looking at .410 ammo online, I have been looking for a video testing the .410 shockwave like this for weeks and youtube never showed me this one or maybe I just assumed it would be the judge/governor testing. Maybe add shockwave in the title or thumbnail. But I appreciate you none the less!
Excellent video! This evaluation of the .410 Shockwave is long overdue. Thanks for the work!
When I visited the Winchester booth at the 2013 SHOT Show, I asked them why they added the BB shot to the PDX load when the discs worked well on their own. Their response...."Sizzle". I was polite enough not to respond "BS". Since then, I've considered the PDX .410 round as trash ammo and avoided it at all cost.
I hope you revisit this topic with the Federal Handgun .410 rounds using 000Buck and #4 shot. I also hope you look at the .410 slug rounds from the Shockwave as well. I know it may not be as accurate as a rifled pistol, but seeing the results in this testing method would be groundbreaking.
Keep up the good work!
I think the PDX load would be good IF they dropped the BB shot and doubled the number of discs.
(Even if they had to reduce the velocity a little.)
Thanks for the video. This helped me decide to go with the 3" 000 5 pellet for my 410 home defense shotgun. Solid group at 25 ft. Would love to see this tested on a Paul Harrell meat target. Great job.
*BOTTOM LINE:* 1) skip unrifled slugs in CQB. 2) 3-ball/2.5" versus 5-ball/3" should go with 3-balls, as the balls track closely and the last two will not pave new ground, whereas having an extra round available ("Yay!!") could be a life-saver.
Excellent video!
If you haven’t already, you should try the Kel-tec KSG410. Also, you should test 410 vs. building materials such as sheet rock and brick for over penetration in the interior home defense scenario.
My Governor likes the Federal 410 2 1/2 000. At 10- 12 feet in a room setting.. those 4 pellets stay together like The Blue Angels..
I admit to watching this for the gel test with the 3" 410 OOO Buck 5 pellets. I'm interested for pistol use. I know it's not practical but out of a Bond Arms Rowdy XL derringer is a lot of fun. I do have the Mossberg Shockwave in 12GA using Buckshot Minishell 1 3/4 in. | 5/8 Oz | 4B (7p) 1B (4p) . I believe a 12GA using Minishells in the Shockwave makes more sense for close quarters because you DON'T have to aim so precisely as the 410 but still has manageable recoil.
Excellent comparison of popular 410 rounds with analysis of concerns a homeowner would have in using these. Thanks for the thoroughness
Although I am late to this party, last year I tested multiple .410 buck shot loads and the PDX1. My results were very similar. The buck shot were my favored all around loads. The PDX1 was somewhat inconsistent in patern and penetration, but, could be effective at closer ranges of 3 to 6-7 yards. Great video. Sorry I didn't see it before I bought two boxes of the Critical Defence last month.
Crimson Trace laser saddle. Green.
Also, now I want to see the Critical Defense out a Governor.
Great vid though. Unexpected topic and very informative.
Look for someone testing the 4 pellet 000 buckshot out of the Federal 410 2 1/2 at 10-12 feet..Or better yet, look for the youtube test Jerry Miculek did with it...That's the best CQB load for the Governor. Mine goes out with 3 in the front backed up by 3 .45 Colt..
One thing I think gets overlooked is that .410 indoors isn't going to be as harsh and disorienting as 12 gauge. Not hearing safe but probably won't delete your ear drums either.
My .410 shockwave had to go back for warranty service to get the left extractor functional. They cut the chamber groove for the extractor deeper and it now extracts perfectly. The chamber step does hang up on the odd shot with 2.5" shells. 3" feed perfectly and thats what I would use for serious purposes.
I've been experimenting with my .410 shells and had similarly good results with 3" Buckshot. Herters, Winchester and Federal all patterned extremely well. And I have confidence in 5 pellets of 000 to have adequate terminal ballistics. Shorter shells with less pellets or smaller pellets not so much.
One issue I ran into was that the gun shot quite high with the plain bead. Luckily the scoup mount hole pattern is the same on the .410 model as the 12 gauge guns and a scope rail is cheap. I'll be mounting a red dot to mine and expect it will be a lot easier to shoot and zero.
oooh, a compact dot like an Aimpoint ACRO on this would be pretty tight, right?
I know someone who just purchased the .410 Shockwave. Can you say how long ago the problem with the extractor occurred?
@@sh1529 I bought the gun last year and it had extraction issues out of the box. Like I said the relief cut for the extractor wasnt cut deep enough from the factory. I tested it after warranty service and it works fine now. The warranty service included cutting the relief cut deeper so that was definitely the problem as I had diagnosed.
"Unique to the Critical Defense 410, the 41 caliber FTX slug actually engages the gun's rifling and contacts the target nose-on, enabling the patented Hornady Flex Tip technology to assist in expansion for greatly enhanced terminal performance." Does your shockwave barrel have rifling? It would make a difference to test this particular ammunition in a rifled barrel to be a fair comparison.
At least for 45 cal barrels like the Judge, it does not engage the rifling like it’s supposed to
A mutual friend of ours had a Mossy .410 SBSed and loaded with the 3-pellet 000 stuff, specifically for family members who lacked the size and strength to run a 12ga. For that specific context it made sense, and gave good service. Having the buttstock on it made a huge difference over a shockwave, though I do think the .410 in particular would go well with Rhett's cheeky breeky technique.
Yeah, if I was going to seriously use this I’d definitely try that cheek weld
You could havd got a 12ga shockwave designed for mini shells. They kick exactly like a 410 and you get a lot more rounds because they are so short.
Demonstrated Concepts can help with the shockwave aiming me thinks
Very interesting. Maybe try the cheek weld method Rhett uses.
Its more likely that the pellets flatten while being compressed together during firing in the chamber and bore.
Especially because they stack on top of eachother. In 12 gauge they offset so the corners flatten
000 buckshot would be the best bet if you're gonna use .410 for defense, that's just my personal opinion. A .410 3 inch shell with 000 buck is 5 .36 caliber pellets, like being hit with two .45 ACPs at once.
Based on the test, I agree. If I had to carry this gun for fighting, I'd rock the three inch 000 buck 5 pellet load.
@@MrRevolver Yeah. I carry a .38 Special myself. I keep +P JHP in my gun (Federal Punch to be exact). I know +P has higher recoil and can increase wear over time, but I just feel more comfortable with the fact that the bullet moves a little faster and hits a little harder.
The judge 2 and 3 inch versions hit with the same amount of pellets and the 2 inch barrel does 18 inches in gel. Too much spread? Not for its intended use its not. The spread is only 3 inches at 7 yards.
Great video! I use my .380 mold (for my 61 Navy) to make buckshot. They won't fit in plastic hulls well, but do just fine in magtech. Shoots well through full choke (.395) guns and hits like a sledgehammer using 3 pellets over 15 g h110. Just a way to get more milage out of an existing mold
I really expected there to be a lot more interest in this subject than the number of views indicated so far. To me the 410 Shockwave and Henry Axe (despite Axe only handling 2 1/2 inch shells) are much better options than the Judge and Governor for those looking at 410 options despite your almost kind comments regarding the Judge. Frankly it's kind of a surprise the 410 Shockwave is not more popular. My best guess is most of the people buying the 12 guage Shockwave aren't really shooting them that much. The 20 guage is often touted as a good Shockwave option, but it's lighter so you lose some of recoil benefit and there are just fewer ammo options for 20 guage these days than 12 offers. I have an old single shot 410 that has a grooved notch in top of the receiver that lines up with the front bead which allows you to almost aim it more like a rifle than a shotgun if needed. This leads me to believe most 410s would benefit from a red dot sight since as Caleb pointed out 410s require more skill and work than their larger guage relatives.
For home defense, there's not much loss. Even the 2 inch barrel judge does 18 inches in gel with multiple wound channels per trigger pull and you have less chance of someone meeting you in a doorway with that longer barrel.
The 20g shockwave is only 4.8 oz lighter. I dont think that this makes a difference in recoil.
How do you think the .410 compares with 12-gauge mini-shells on the Shockwave?
Hard to say in terms of recoil, but I'd definitely prefer the ballistics from the 410 over the mini-shells. Plus the 410 is probably going to be more reliable
@@MrRevolver Just saw a review of a 590 18.5 inch rifle version in .410. It jammed a lot.
@@MrRevolverI've put probably 350 rounds of mini shells through my 12 ga shockwave and it runs flawlessly and kicks like a 410. I can one hand shoot it easily. Plus it holds like 9 rounds total.
Back when Saigas were available and cheap, I often entertained the idea of picking up one in .410. Lighter recoil and higher capacity in a semi shotgun intrigued me. Never did it though.
The Mossberg 510 Bantam or 505 Youth model .410 shotguns work very well and are in the same price range as the Shockwave. The buttstock is very short but allows you to shoulder the weapon and get a good sight picture. It is also just long enough to put a rifle butt cuff on it to hold 9 extra .410 shells.
Thinking with the PDX1 ammo. I would feel more sorry for the surgeon that has to find and remove all the bb's from an attackers guts than I would for the attacker. He would probably need a colostomy bag after that.
Rather have three more Discs.Thank You.
I wouldn't poopoo the Governor with Federal 410 000 buck. I'd say look at Gun Sam's recent review.
The 3 & 5 pellet buck shot does well out of a rossi tuffy. Will definitely get the job done as far as home defense goes.
What about a laser on the shockwave?
There is an affordable one on Amazon.
Are we still in the military, i.e. the longer hair and beard or are we on a 30 day vacation?
I'm still in, but since I came back from Europe I've been off duty so I don't need to shave, which is nice
It would be curious to see a slug fired for control. I wonder about penetration differences between slugs and buckshot acting like a slug.
Federal 410 000 is the best. Apparently, you can't get them anymore 😮
I always kind of thought the Shockwave would be good, say, inside an RV where there is very limited Mobility
I'm not sure it would be worth it over a pistol in 410 however
Ok i normally like your content but this one isn’t just long, it’s unbearably long. There’s A LOT of dead time you could cut out and even more rambling(this is something you do in every video but the others are 7-10m and it’s bearable in those)
36:20 is where you actually get to the point of the vid. I put it on 1.5x speed at the start and still skipped from minute 7 to 35. Clicked through the middle section but none of it seemed worth the time investment.
I think all the shot spreads and stuff is still worth showing, but in a much more abreviated way. We don’t even need to see you shoot the target unless you do something weird like between your legs.
Anyways, don’t let me get you down, there’s people that will watch this entire thing all the way through. I’m just not one of them.
The pellet spread will vary, even from same manufacturer and model.
Rifles,shotguns,pistols in that order for home defense.
Yes, the .41 cal. Was definitely designed for rifling. Great for the 6.5" Judge. The PDX1 would be better with just 3 disks and forget the BBs.
Too much yammering, not enough shooting. Stopped watching after 5 minutes.🥱