The line of dialogue in "Sharpe's Eagle" was the "ability to fire 3 rounds a minute in all weather". Private Dobbs manages to fire 4 rounds but then collapses. Sharpe also instructs the South Essex in the way of "tap loading" and not use the ramrod. However in "Sharpe's Battle" he teaches the Irish Company how to load and fire muskets the traditional way.
Yes I remember the line in the series by Sharpe's character. I never read the books. I can consistently load 3 a minute give or take 5 seconds with cartridge....traditionally loaded with returned rammer. I have done 4 a few times, however that fast is perfect weather, and fresh flint. Tap loading only works if you discard the paper, and drop the bullet (roundball or buckshot) naked. With the paper it is too tight a fit. Rifles can't be tap loaded as the ball must fit hard and be driven into the groves...or patched where the patch does that.
The most without misfire for me was 36 rounds in a competition. I came in 2nd. The winner has 39. Now we were both using Miroku replica 1763 French muskets...that were manufactured in the 1970s. Both well cared for having shot thousands of blank and live rounds. I don't think we could replicate that reliability in 21st century replica imports.
I have shot muskets for over 30 years and I have couple of observations. The flint - it matters where it was from. In the 1800's and before the flints were all from Suffolk and mined from the area around Grimes Graves. These flints are about as good as can be obtained. I knap my own gunflints from flint purchased from there. It is not unusual to get 120 + shots from one flint. Commercial flints (often black in colour) tend to be heat treated to allow easier knapping (thus increasing production). I would be lucky to get 30 shots from one of these commercial flints. So getting the authentic flints makes a big difference. Firing ball means things also slow down a bit - getting it rammed home through the fouling takes a few moments more to make certain it is seated. There is no going off the aim if there is delay or hangfire - you have to take normal safety precautions, hold it in the shoulder and give it a bit longer in case it cooks off a live round. Firing blank is one thing, firing ball is another.
Read the book. Start with a loaded and prime musket. First shot fired #1 second. 50 plus seconds remaining for three more shots. Cromwell states only the best could accomplish this. The made for TV series is complete crap.
I’ve tried similar tests with a replica French model 1777. Sustained and accurate fire at this rate is not possible. After six or so shots, the barrel gets too hot to touch. After several shots, especially in humid weather, the barrel is too fouled to fire accurately. There was tests performed in France during the wars and they had to be ended because the barrels became so hot that they risked igniting the powder while loading.
Yes, barrel heating is definitely a thing. I took to wearing a wool glove on my left hand during battle reenactments to protect from getting burned. Barrel fouling is an issue, but this was mitigated by using undersized bullets. For example, the British Land Pattern muskets, aka the Brown Bess, had a .75 caliber bore, but the round ball caliber was. 72 to .73, which allows loading with a fouled barrel. Also, keep in mind a musket is basically a spear that can shoot. They are inaccurate, and initial engagement ranges were relatively close in most cases so the number of shots was limited before you engaged with the bayonet. In the reenactment, we did where we were assaulting enemy troops in a fixed fortification I could get off ten shots with some luck before it went hand to hand. This event is what led to wearing the glove.
Ramming is the key to consistant firing of more than 10 shots. Its definitely possible and fore me demonstrable to fire more than 5 shots tap loading in a minute. Ramming I can and have done 4 using a 1777ix infantry
@@patwarner397 Interesting. I lost count of how many rounds we went through, but we must have managed c.15+ over the course of the day, and didn't sluice the barrel. We did use two muskets though, so that would probably explain it.
Paper Cartridges also has done this, he got 4 shots per minute using something roughly like the proper way. The spit tap method was more like 2-3 rounds per minute. He started with an unloaded musket, but he was not bringing it to the shoulder and pausing before going to the firing position. He also goes into some depth about why the spit tap method is bad, and why the cartridges were constructed the way they were.
Yeah, our experiment was really focused on whether it can be done by sticking exactly to the drill manual. You can definitely manage more by cutting corners on the drill.
@@thenapoleonicwars Well, that's interesting. It kinda flies in the face of my above comments premise but, in the beginning of the video it really sounded like you were testing the Sharpe's method. If that's not the case, the introduction is rather misleading.
Sharpe taught his men that bits of doctrine could be skipped in a real fight, in cornwells Starbucks novels the ram rod was not returned but leant against the body for easy access saving time.
Don't shoulder the musket between loading and firing and you'll save 6-10 seconds in the sequence. Also, the ramrod can be stuck in the ground rather than replacing in the stock. Not typical practice but can save a lot of fumbling in a stationary engagement.
Yeah, part of the point of the exercise (which we didn't explain in the video because it would have made the narration tedious) is that we did everything in line with the drill manual, hence why we didn't cut corners. Tbh I think even I could have done 4 rounds with the ramrod in the ground.
Any sergeant would have been "upset" seeing a ramrod stuck in the ground, and would have made his displeasure known to the offender. The musket is pretty much useless without the ramrod. yes, one could possibly have tap loaded a couple of rounds, but bear in mind the drill was designed for battalion sized elements firing in a line formation. The idea was that everyone does the same thing at the same time, so that the battalion can fire a volley at the enemy.
@Rob-e8w A "flash in the pan" is usually due to an obstructed touchhole which is a hole in the barrel leading from the pan where the priming charge is to the breach area of the musket. One of the tools you would carry and have readily available in a vent pick for cleaning the touchhole.
"flash in the pan": someone who is all show with a lot of noise and fury...... but with no substantial result, i.e. the tribal medicine man in _F Troop_ . What is referred to as a doghead I always heard called the cock ( kinda looks like one), hence the term "going off half-cocked".
@@stuartjarman4930 For attacking an opposing line or position yes. But not always. Defending positions wouldn't bayonet charge out fortifications. There are plenty of scenarios where extended firefights took place.
@@stuartjarman4930 That's not true, during the Napoleonic wars British troops would often do extended platoon fire against French columns during defensive battles like Talevera and Busaco as in most battles of the Peninsula the British were outnumbered.
A continuous rate of 3 rounds per minute could imply that in the first minute of fire that 4 rounds were fired, because the musket would probably arrive within rage already loaded.
I used to shoot as a member of the Vintage Arms Association. Rifle shooting at Purfleet Ranges, Gravesend, UK. Brown Bess flintlock musket. .75 cal. Best I could do was 3 rounds per minute. If it was warm and dry.
Just fyi, the phrase "lock and load" came from the way one loaded a flintlock musket from a cartridge: first priming the pan(the "lock"), then pouring the rest of the powder and the bullet down the barrel(load)
Priming the pan was not the lock. The lock was literally locking the hammer back prior to priming the pan. The loading of the shot had to precede the priming of the pan on a muzzle loading musket or rifle, lest the priming powder fall out of the pan while ramming home the shot. The modern use of "lock and load" is nonsensical. It is used in TV shows and copycats in the military where the phrase "weapons free" should be used. When actually performing a "lock and load," the safety is locked in place prior to loading a magazine into the receiver and charging the bolt. This prevents the firing pin from being triggered and striking the round in the chamber. In the movies, a firearm is ready to fire after a "lock and load" but in the real world the safety is disengaged upon a command of "weapons free". Anyone having a live weapon after only hearing "lock and load" is a danger to himself and those around him.
@@gaiustacitus4242 Number one, I wasn't talking about "modern" firearms Number two, the reason one doesn't prime the pan of a flintlock before loading(these days, at least) is for safety reasons, i.e. having the gun go off unexpectedly When a British soldier loaded his weapon, he used a paper cartridge containing both powder and ball. A pinch of powder was first put in the priming pan, and the frizzen(or "hammer", as it was called then) closed over the pan. The only way the priming could have fallen out was if the frizzen didn't close all the way, which would be a mechanical defect, and could have rendered the musket unfireable. I suggest you consult the British manual of arms for loading a flintlock musket. By the way, I've fired flintlocks for many years, and I've NEVER had the priming fall out once the frizzen was down on the pan
@@gaiustacitus4242I've never heard this expression been used in sense you've mentioned. Probably 'cos I never watched that kind of shows. But I had heard it in meaning "I'm ready" or something like that. And I always thought that it's only normal and logical meaning of that expression
Nice work. This is the only other demonstration of the correct footwork I have seen. I wouldn't hasten to put too much weight on this, modern experience regarding misfires though... Reproduction muskets may have poorly harden hammers, or bad flints may shatter... Misfires certainly are a factor in the case of general flintlock practice, but "conclusive" observations based on a somewhat flawed foundation need to be taken with the necessary grain of salt. Of course, we don't see the larger picture of how his firelock functions 'normally' and this might have been a case of the muzzleloading gods being cantankerous.... It wasn't shown in the video, but was the flint knapped once it ceased to function properly? It's hard to tell, but is the flint held in leather or lead?
Thanks for the comment, I’m a huge fan of your work and have used it a lot in training. It was the first time firing this firelock so it was taking some time to get used to its nuances, it is an Indian made reproduction. The muzzleloading gods have since become much less fickle when using it. The flint was indeed knapped but it didn’t want to spark at all. The hammer itself was newly hardened. The flint was in leather, although I’ve toyed with the thought of using lead I haven’t yet. What’s your experience of the difference, if any?
@@LiamTelfer1985 glad to hear the gods’ fickleness was fleeting! I use leather for the flint and never had issue to change. What did you use to harden the hammer? Great to see a well put together demo with good turn out and soldierly handling of the weapon! If you haven’t already had a chance to fire live, make all possible arrangements to do so! Even more take aways! Great job.
The hammer was hardened for me by the gunsmith Peter Dyson and now that I rectified the flint issue sparks very well indeed. Thanks again for the feedback, as you know it’s a lot of commitment to build a solid impression and praise from someone I hold in such high regard is greatly appreciated.
Hi Rob and Liam, all interesting stuff. I'm interested, Rob, in the suggestion here that reproduction muskets are less reliable than the originals. What I took, possibly erroneously, from your videos on firing the Brown Bess was that reproductions - and crucially with modern black powder - were probably more reliable and consistent than the originals. Certainly, I was impressed at your ability to land all of the musket balls on a No4 target at 100 yards. Even as a (latter day) light infantryman, I didn't think that was possible. As far as 4 rounds per minute, I think that even Cornwell suggested that that was possible only when you started with a loaded musket. And in any case, if you were skirmishing, you would wish to take your time. If, on the other hand, you were in the line at close range, the object was to land a couple of good volleys and charge. High rate of fire close quarter volleying just got all of your guys killed. So delivering the second volley before the other side delivered theirs was hopefully all you needed to do.
Not read the books or seen the TV, but my dad was a fan. He said Sharpe was a 'rifleman' hence the green jacket. The rife was loaded and fired carfully to engage long range targets accurately from cover ...the greenjackets were akin to today's snipers and recon units. They only fired twice a minute at most...half the rate of a musketeer.
Absolutely right. The leather-wrapped ball was harder to ram down the barrel due to the rifling. In the scene we refer to though, Sharpe fires off four rounds while using a smoothbore musket, which is why we did the exercise this way.
It depended on how they were deployed and what they were doing. Riflemen could be expected to 'stand the line', at which point the expectation was the same three rounds a minute of a musket. Similarly if called upon to form square they'd be looking for three rounds per minute. They were actually issued two separate types of ammunition for just such occurrences - the loose leather wrapped bullets for skirmishing or sharpshooting work, and regular paper cartridges for line work. It's one of the inaccuracies in the Sharpe TV show that the men are always seen using the paper cartridges.
Interesting stuff- thanks. It backs up my experience with trying to get 4 live rounds off in a minute. I only ever managed 3, but that was starting with an unloaded musket. Adding the musket ball slows it down even further, especially after the barrel starts to foul.
Wasn't one of the tricks used in the book "Sharpe's Eagle" was that Sharpe started with a loaded musket, and the clock started when he fired? Only need to reload in 30 sec for 3 shots/min (20 sec for 4 shots/min)
@richardhubbard540 - best I managed with someone timing me was 3 shots in 1 minute and 5 seconds starting unloaded. It's very difficult, any slip or fumble ruins the attempt. Also didn't feel 100% safe. I used a 12 gauge doglock and a belly box for the cartridges. The cartridges had a 695 ball and the whole lot went down the barrel with the exception of the priming charge as per manual of arms
Reading Sharpe a long time ago I calculated that a thousand musketeers firing 3 rounds per minute would rain down 50 shots per second on the enemy. Ever heard that buzzing from a neon light fitting? That's 50 cycles per second. Same rate. Imagine the damage that can do, 50 balls per second raining down, they wouldn't even have to aim.
Sharpe Got off 5 in the book in his demonstration run (having loaded first). Apparently Sir John Moore himself was recorded as having fired 5 rounds a minute impressing his men as a young officer. I suspect 3 was the ideal.
This was great. I have no doubt professional soldiers at the time were able to accomplish things that we today would think of as impossible. With dedicated practice incredible feats can be achieved, especially when your life depends upon it. Just look how insanely fast modern gun enthusiasts in the USA can shoot - for anyone who doesn’t regularly do that activity you would genuinely think some of the modern speeds are impossible if you couldn’t see it with your own eyes. Obviously not saying that wellington had an army of John Wicks 😂 but logically the same principle applies to historians and reenactment enthusiasts trying to compete on the same level as professionals. Just as the same logic applies to amateur/professional athletes.
@@Ettrick8 Afaik Muskets were not exactly precision weapons. The damage was done by firing volleys into the enemy formation (a fairly large target) at relatively close range. Also, one does not need to kill to reduce the enemy's ability to fight back. In fact 'only' injuring the opposing soldiers is more harmful to morale and the soldier in question is out of the fight regardless. It also is a burden on a strategic level as wounded soldiers need to be collected from the battlefield, be tended to and fed, without pulling their weight in the next fight (if they were able to fight again at all).
@@oliturner4710 the Duke of Wellington in 1811 in London organised a test. During this test, the Brown Bess muskets were fired at a wooden shield representing an infantry or cavalry line. The results were as follows: At a distance of 100 yards (91 meters), 53% of the shots hit the target. At 200 yards (180 meters), 30% of the shots hit. At 300 yards (270 meters), 23% of the shots hit. These results highlighted the musket’s effectiveness at shorter ranges, which was typical for smoothbore muskets of that era
Good demonstration of why the order "Fix bayonets!" wasn't usually given before it was time for a bayonet charge. You'd cut yourself loading the bloody musket in such a hurry. I've fired a Hawken .50 cal. rifle a few times; the greased patch & rifling demands more effort with the ram rod, so more accurate but slower...
Rapidly of fire wasn't everything. General Wolfe of Quebec fame was more concerned that his troops properly loaded their muskets rather than rapidly of fire. It was also common practice to have the first rank of a three rank line which was kneeling reserve their fire for emergencies while ranks two and three performed the platoon exercise (fired by platoons). I know British infantry in the Napoleon's wars normally formed in two ranks but fire in three ranks was commonly used in the earlier 18th century. There were those who say that Frederick the Great's Prussians could fire five times a minute but this was only on the parade ground using blank cartridges. One other thing to keep in mind is that the balls historically used were smaller in relation to the bore. British troops using the Land Pattern musket with a bore of about .753 were using balls of about .685. This is based on the archeological report at Fort Necessity in Pennsylvania
Black powder leaves a residue in the barrel on each shot.. after several shots (depending on actual bore diameter and quality of the powder) it becomes harder and harder to get the ball down the barrel. Eventually the barrel has to be cleaned. My experience was about 13 shots was the max for a .45 cal rifle with patched ball. With a smaller caliber rifle you should get fewer shots. With the larger military calibers and unpatched balls you should get a few more shots. Most of the 1700s era cartridge boxes had wood blocks with holes for 14-18 cartridges. I've always suspected this was about the max. number of rounds you could get off before powder fouling restricted or stopped your firing.
I've always thought that biting into the paper satchels of gunpowder for a whole battle would have left the the most horrible taste in your mouth by the end of the day.
It's more than possible to fire four rounds a minute even without the weapon being already loaded. Most reenactors simply don't have the practice to do it. I worked at a Historic Site for many years where we trained people for 2 months of the summer every day on and off to fire the musket and every single member of our staff could do a 15 second load after 2 months of practice. I've seen people who can do it in 10 seconds at least for a single shot and I've seen many people do 4 rounds continuously in a minute. They grab the wood of the stock to avoid the barrel heat and power through round after round. A better knapped flint would also severely reduce his misfires.
0:22 "this is what the British were doing to beat the French in the Napoleonic wars" I think people forget the Napoleonic wars is more than just Waterloo, and that Waterloo was not vs the Grande Armée
Keeping the ramrod permanently out and sticking it into your belt instead of returning it to the gun would help, but of course would have been against regulations. A concerted volley would have been impossible anyway if every soldier works at his limits. Wait until 80% have loaded, then fire the volley. Those who lag behind will join the next volley.
Or if not in line and required to move you can keep the rammer hooked between your fingers, or propped up against something. As Srgt Harper does in the first episode, your last shot you can always send the rammer too.
@@ronvaughan4600 Today that part is known as the frizzen. Historically it was called the hammer. Frizzen is a more modern term. At the time, they would have referred to that part of the musket as the hammer. That's why we called it that in the video - believe me, we've done our research on this 👍
@@ronvaughan4600 That is what I was referring to. What you are calling the hammer I think was referred to as the cock. @thenapoleonicwars enlightened me as to the old and new terminology for the frizzen. Perhaps he can tell us what the contemporary term was for the cock/dog, if different. I think the modern term for the hammer probably came about when percussion caps were invented.
Fantastic effort and very smartly done. I made a similar video but did not have the period correct uniform and accountrements, and therefore had to set the cartridges on a bench, and everyone commented to say I couldn't do it when loading from the actual cartridge box. This video proves that it was indeed quite possible to be done, loading from the cartridge box and using the period drill, without any special Sharpe fictional inventions like spit-loading or butt-thumping. Excellent job!
From what I remember in the TV series, his emphasis was from not being loaded to use that quick Pace and to be able to get off three rounds in a minute. The TV show seemed to abandon this four rounds per minute concept and concentrate on fully loading and discharging three rounds per minute.
Instead of bringing the musket up to the left shoulder after loading. What if you imminently made ready and fired.. that would save a few seconds each time.
@@michaelwright4456Not at all. A 71st HLI private shot 5 in a minute using tap loading in the Penninsula. But that was in action, using live ammo, not pretending or fooling yourself at reenactment!
@@markus000karkus Yes you can tap load for about 10 shots then your muzzle becomes to fouled to shoot Ramming the cartridge paper down partly cleans the barrel with each shot. if you are firing live rounds expect less than 10 round before its too fouled to get a ball down ...From the voice of much experience live and blank firing.
My father had a flint lock, and it seemed to be 6 foot long to me as a kid. Later on we all bought the kits that made a cap and ball. Even with the cap and ball there was a short hesitation between the pulling of the trigger and it going off. But even those would foul out as where the cap sit would clog up from the residue. But fun times.
I think if other shortcuts were taken it could be possible but I wouldn't be certain on reliability. For example, tapping the butt of the musket on the ground instead of using the ramrod (or at the very least just staking it in the ground rather than putting it away after each use. Skipping the shoulder arms stage after the load would shave a couple of seconds off per cycle too.
I was surprised how little of a kick there is when firing black powder rifles. It's more of a push then a kick. I have introduced a few people to black powder, and they all say the same thing: "58 / 69 caliber? That thing's gotta kick like a mule!" Then they try it. "It doesn't kick!" and the smile is wonderful and they can't wait to do it again.
Out of interest though, are you firing with or without the ball loaded? Our conversations with those who have done both indicates that the musket has quite a kick to it with the lead bullet loaded?
@@thenapoleonicwars I don't think I've ever intentionally fired without a loaded bullet. Maybe it seems so unkicky because I was used to WW II battle rifles. I once walked around an unofficial shooting field with a Mosin Nagant carbine, the one with the folding bayonet, plinking at every leftover can and shutgun shell. About half an hour, maybe 50-60 shots. The wooden furniture got so hot I had to hold it by the sling only, but it never felt like it kicked too hard. On the other hand, I hate shooting .357 magnum, but .38+P+ is fine. My favorite black powder long arms are a smooth bore .69 1842 Springfield replica and a rifled .58 1861 Springfield replica, and they are so heavy, that helps tame them too.
One thing that people often forget is if the two sides are equal in terms of accuracy and boots if one side can do 3 shots in a minute and the other can do 4 shots in 70 seconds, they're still ahead of things. The volleys are based on uniformity of everyone being the same standard which has pros and cons in of itself.
Yes, shooting in the Sharpe series was in a perfect TV/movie world. Can 4 rounds per minute be done, yes, if everything goes perfectly. Did it always go perfectly, no. But that doesn't mean it didn't all work almost perfectly most of the time. The men of Wellington's army had one thing over their enemies. The practiced and practiced and practiced. Mr. Telfer, I'm guessing, hasn't fired hundreds of rounds with a musket and needed to clear a musket with his life at risk if he doesn't. (I am not disparaging his military service, just putting into perspective.)
Yeah, what reenactors don't seem to realize is that a professional soldier would have fired hundreds or thousands of bullets in practice. A reenactor might fire a couple dozen a year. The level of experience makes a huge difference so could a Napoleonic era British regular do four a minute normally? Probably. Did they? No. Their doctrine was to fire sustained three rounds a minute, at which point after around 12 minutes the musket would be too hot to use which was nice since they would also have fired off most of the readily accessible bullets they carried on their person. A fictional story isn't a good reference source while the actual manuals they used at the time are wonderful.
You're definitely not disparaging his service. Last I checked, the Brown Bess isn't the main weapon of the British anymore. Give him the weapon he used in the service vs a normal chap and see who works it better!
I noticed some powder being wasted when tearing open the cartridge. This combined with the imprecision of priming the pan makes me wonder how much the great uncertainty of how much powder actually ends up in the barrel contributes to the inaccuracy of any given rifleman.
Fantastic observation. It probably wouldn't have affected accuracy (precision came from the quarter turn of rifling in the Baker rifle - Liam is using a smoothbore musket, which was the more common firearm of the time). But it would certainly have affected range.
I'm a big Cornwell fan, but I wondered at the 4-per-minute claim. I really had a hard time believing in spitting the ball down the barrel. 1. It might not make it all the way to the bottom and thus, cause a rupture in the barrel. 2. There would also be no wadding between the powder and ball, resulting in some loss of power and accuracy. I had also heard that the French would average @ 2 shots per minute while the Brits were doing closer to 3. I own a replica Hawken rifle with a cap/nipple instead of a flint lock. It can be a pain to remove sometimes. But thanks to your in depth explanation, I now see why it's more dependable than flint.
I’ve done this once with a pedersoli ( brand new in the white) using priming powder and spit wads . One once balls 4 fired in 1 minute 3vseconds. The next time the flint failed after 2 shots. It worked lose. I don’t think it’s impossible just hard to keep up for more than a few dozen shots. Powder fouling and flint quality. Maybe the guys knew how to work their muskets better than we do
I really liked the use of the brush to clean the priming pan and the picker to clear any burnt powder in the touchhole. The small chains (sometimes leather thongs) were, I believe, attached to a button in the centre of the tunic. 🇬🇧👍
Absolutely right! Liam is very careful to make sure that his kit is precisely accurate with the regulations of the period, and even has different kit arrangements depending on which regulations were in force during different points in the war - he's a seasoned pro with this stuff - its why we love working with him!
I saw a guy manage 5 once (cheated a couple of seconds I think, and yes the first was preloaded), but he was shooting blanks and cutting corners. Notably, he kept the ramrod in his hand the whole time, and pointed out that if he were in a dense line he'd be whipping the poor dude next to him. He said he did something to his cartages, too (perforated the tear maybe?), and had some comments on how infeasible that would have been that I don't recall. I think it would have been unsafe or much harder with a ball. Still fun for a demo, though.
Very correct explaining on firing a napoleonic musket. I am a reeanctor myself and my record is 0.58 starting with empty musket. So yeah, 4 shots is only possible with the musket already loaded.
I imagine it was possible for some exceptionally skilled individuals in good conditions to load and fire four shots in a minute, but I'm sure there weren't any armies doing it.
The quality of the lock is vital to good performance on a flintlock, as is a good quality of flint. Both English and French flints are usually excellent if properly knapped. I doubt that the locks of infantry were 'tuned' to the degree that they can be with a bit of work, or as well made as they can be, so the performance vis a vis good reliable ignition would have been at best variable. Placement of the touch hole relative to the pan is critical, and helps when the pan is over primed (much more common than the reverse) which fouls up the flint and frizzen; I would posit that vents were pretty large on military muskets to help avoid blockages. Another factor was the very variable quality of the powder available. I have no experience with smooth bores, having only owned flintlock rifles, which are slower to load... 2 rounds a minute (starting empty) is doing well, but then effective range is doubled... roundabouts and swings.... Love my flinter..... it is surprisingly accurate and can launch a .490" ball at around 2000 fps with a full charge, although for most purposes I run it at about 60%....
@@thenapoleonicwars Depends on the type of bow. Longbows actually had a better effective range than muskets against unarmoured targets (rifles can match them, though the longbow still fires faster). Of course you could train a musketman to the point of being useful in a month or so, while a longbowman was something like 15 years (rough guess, assuming the guy started training with lesser bows in his early teens or younger), minimum.
I'm 74 years old now and in my younger years I hunted with and shot for competition a .50 cal. flintlock. After one particular match in hot, humid weather I had two epiphanies. One epiphany was that there was a reason that our forefathers developed smokeless powder and the other was you don't have to take your compound bow apart and clean it everytime that you shoot it. Mada my life so much easier.
Liam also takes the ridiculous measure, part of reenactment, of standing to attention before volleys. Adds 2-4 seconds each shot. Guess what you are not doing when a french cavalrymen is charging you?
If a cavalryman is charging you and you're in square you're firing on command, not at will. So standing with arms shouldered is the sign that you are ready to present. You would therefore absolutely be standing to attention as per the drill. If you're in line, you're either running or forming square. So Liam's method absolutely stands. Its not a 'ridiculous measure', its doing things according to the drill manual, which is how the men were trained.
@thenapoleonicwars ... I don't even know where to start. When the battle starts you are at stance. When the first command to fire is given, with enemies still approaching, NO, you would not return to attention. You would probably be flogged or sent to latrine duty for being the dumbest sort, if you lived. You are going to keep firing until given the order to cease, unless firing in ranks.
I can tell you that loading and firing blank cartridges (without a lead ball) is completely different than live ammunition. Blank charges have much less pressure at the breech and allow the touch hole to foul more readily and really crud up the bottom of the flint. Firing live rounds from a 'Bess leaves things much cleaner, for relative values of "clean", anyway. Also after half a dozen full charge live rounds from a Brown Bess your shoulder can really tell. That .75 bullet and the powder you push up the barrel under it (as ignition comes from the back) really translates to a wallop to the buttstock and the Brown Bess butt plate is no picnic being slightly domed out in the center and of solid brass.
It seems to me (former Napoleonic reenactor, 14th cuirasier) that it might be the hardness of the frizzen ( the part that's hit by the flint) can be the issue. My former flintlock pistol never misfired... the sparks come from the steel fragments and ignited by the flint... too soft steel makes no sparks.
You'll see that Liam has comment on this on another commenter's query, but his hammer (frizzen - we just use the period-appropriate word) has been through the necessary treatment to ensure it was hard enough. He's since managed to get the musket into a better place, but as we say in the voice over, we had issues with both muskets.
When firing at will in rapid succession, though (which is what this drill is meant to replicate), you wouldn't keep going back to "shoulder arms" every time. Go straight from "withdraw ramrod" to "make ready," and you'll shave off a couple seconds per shot. Also, if you place in the shot pouch a wooden block with holes drilled in it to hold the cartridges upright, you'll spend less time fumbling about. Another observation: When Liam was racing the clock (look at 9:42 - 9:44 played back slowly, then again at 10:03-10:04), as he bit off the end of the cartridge, he actually wasted quite a bit of powder as he pulled the cartridge away from his mouth and spilled the powder into the air. Those times, it worked out, but I wonder if, when he was having trouble with misfires, some of it might have been due to undercharging either the pan or the barrel.
Interesting observation on the powder wastage. Bear in mind that Liam primes the pan first, so the wastage would have more impact on the charge that goes down the barrel, rather than the powder in the pan. The issue was that there was no spark - definitely a flint issue, as there was no ignition in the pan. A few folks have mentioned the bringing up to the shoulder 'wastage'. Ultimately soldiers were taught to fire on command, rather than fire at will, so whilst it is possible to shave the time off, as you say, it's not representative of the manoeuvres at the time. 👍
The 95th Rifles used the Baker rifle, which had better range but was slower to reload than a standard musket rifle due to the need to wrap the ball in greased linen. That limited them to 2 shots a minute.
Indeed. Although the scene in question where the idea springs from involves Sharpe training a light company equipped with muskets rather than rifles. 👍
i've been a re-enactor for 30 years and have three comments.- the smoke from the musket itself can form a coating on the pan meaning you can't get a spark, he did all those practice shots and that didn't help, it also clogs the touch hole. If i was seeing this while walking behind the firing line I'd be saying "Wipe them down!"and "Check your touch holes!" A flash in the pan is when it does go off in the pan but doesn't connect through the touch hole to set off the gun, see comment above "Clean 'em out!" Lastly you do NOT rest your musket but on the ground. You hold it just above it, among other things you put it down on mud and then hold it firmly to your shoulder you will discolour your regimental. I catch any on my men with it on the ground after a warning of "get it off the ground" and the next time it will be more personal "Are you so infirm you can't hold a musket in one arm? This is the british army, are you trying to be like the french?"
So I am curious. I grew up learning a musket was smoothbore and a weapon with rifling was a rifle. And when I read Sharpe's rifles years ago I thought he was in the 95th Rifles regiment. So please explain to me how a discussion about how muskets firing rates addresses the topic at hand? Or what am I missing.
No worries, so I suspect you have not read Sharpe's Eagle, where Sharpe is promoted to Captain and attached to a regiment of redcoats. He is tasked with bringing the redcoats up to scratch, and as they are all equipped with muskets, instead of the Baker Rifle, he has to get them firing faster, and demonstrates that he can fire four rounds of musketry in a minute. 👍
Ive never seen Sharpe, but its definitely on my list of shows to watch. That being said, ive never ever heard of "4 shots a minute" with a muzzle loading musket. The saying ive always heard is: "A good infantryman should be to fire 3 shots per minute."
Frederick the Great's Prussians were allegedly trained to fire up to 6 rounds a minute, but it is highly unlikely they could do so in anything except ideal parade ground conditions.
Yeah, I think that's one of the big challenges with the whole exercise - you can't recreate what it was like to be in a battle with all the stresses and carnage.
I am a War of 1812 (US vs Britain in North America) reenactor of some 12 years experience. Some observations, your flint appears to have no sheath. Flints are usually held in the jaws of the dog by a leather or lead wrap. I secures the flit tighter and helps to prevent shattering. Also here in NA we don't ram our paper as it can start fires on the field in dry weather. This slows us down a bit but as we have to pour the charge down the barrel. We also don't ram as a safety measure (a ram rod launched can kill). In the balance I think the timing evens out. I can regularly get 3, 4 or some times even 5 rounds off per minute. One other thing, you referred to the hammer when you meant the frizzen/pan cover.
Seems like a bad idea to put your mouth directly over the muzzle of a loaded and primed firearm, especially considering that there are sparks and burning powder flying around from everyone else in the line.
The British army did a study around this time and discovered that in any one volley, 15% of the muskets would not go off. Good job on following the manual and showing how it was supposed to be done. I read somewhere that the standard for Washington's Continental Army was four rounds in 75 seconds. This seems doable with a simplified drill. Rate of fire is over emphasized nowadays. A battalion of muskets creates an instant smokescreen. Except at close range, rapid fire is wasting ammunition.
In many occasions the British army faced larger numbers of French troops. By being able to fire three times to the French two it evened the odds. Despite the smoke if you are getting twice as many shots away in the general direction of your enemy as they are getting in your direction then you are doing some good. The same principal applied to British ships who could fire faster than the French ships. This meant that during a battle the total amount of metal they shot was larger than the enemy even with smaller cannon and ships.
@@unclekevin5094 As I understand it, the French tended to fight in columns, which meant only the front and side of the column could fire. Several well directed volleys could disrupt the attack of the column. Another point that everyone seems to overlook is that the troops did not carry unlimited ammunition. Controlled volley fire was more effective. Yes at close range, when the enemy is closing, the ability to fire rapidly was crucial, but that wasn't sustainable for a long period of time.
I’ve seen arguments that the British tended to wait until the enemy was close before delivering the first volley. They would take some casualties from enemy fire, but the concentrated volley from thirty yards, from clean barrels and fresh flints - apparently was so much more effective that it was worthwhile.
@@jaydunno8266 Generally if you're in a column the intent is not to exchange fire with the enemy but to charge him. The emphasis on speed is because by the 19th century they'd moved away from volley to platoon fire, which requires every man is capable of firing and reloading at a regular rate in order to keep up continuous fire from the unit.
Count Alexander Suvorov's approach ("The bullet's a fool, the bayonet's a fine lad") makes more sense when you consider these low rates of fire. He wrote in "Train Hard, Fight Easy" about the emphasis on training, accurate fire, and speed. Although they never met in battle, Suvorov is considered by many historians to have been Napoleon's peer as a military leader and perhaps better than Napoleon in terms of logistics.
I don't own a flintlock but occassionaly have a go at the range on a club firearm. Percussion caps were a great invention!! The hang fire and indeed the slow fire of a perfectly functioning firearm makes it hard to get off shots. And do it in the rain? That is why Sharpe is all about 3 shots in all weathers, but there are episodes in Cornwell's books where Sharpe wins a fight without firing, because the powder is rain soaked.
It makes perfect sense that the rifle would be loaded as the timer starts. The soldiers would load as they near the Battlefield, in case of ambush or sudden call to action
Marshal Maurice de Saxe wrote: "Light infantry should be able to fire 6 shots a minute, but under the stress of battle 4 should be allowed for." It's difficult to see how this could be accomplished, but there are period claims to that effect.
Light infantry who aren't formed up in line for company or battalion scale vollies can take a lot of shortcuts with the drill and have it matter due to not needing to coordinate on such a large scale. And supposedly particularly well trained line units could manage 4 a minute under decent conditions (presumably by way of their officers incorporating some of the more suitable shortcuts into the entire battalion's drill... or just having done the drill that many times.)
I always thought it was silly that they properly replaced the ramrod each time into that small slot. It would be much quicker so simply hold it alongside the length of the musket after each ram.
4 a minute was the 1st set of firings only. A soldier marched with a loaded musket or rifle. Most modern interpreters do not. They load on the line at 2PM just as the show starts....or in firing competition, as soon as the safety officer says commence.
@@petercollingwood522 are you confusing soldiers with reenactors or actual actors. If soldiers are marching in column or patrol in country, they are armed and ready, same as today. When put on guard duty. Even behind lines as it was part of the readiness. Battles don't just start at 2pm when the paying crowd is behind the viewing line. Yes they had muskets and rifles already loaded. So did settlers on wagon trains and hunters.
@@STho205 No. I'm not. I'm asking where you read that Napoleonic soldiers in column of march would have their muskets loaded while shouldered or slung? Seems like a particularly stupid thing to do to me. So just curious as to your source given that these events occured over two centuries ago and modern practices, or peoples guesses about them are long removed from the time in question.
@petercollingwood522 it was a custom of practice to load after morning colors. It is in most CoP volumes of the era from 1800 through the muzzle era in most armies in Europe and America. Loading 1st time after you are confronted is ludicrous. Yes if the musket had to be unloaded in bivouac or garrison, they pulled the bullet with a punch then the cartridge with a worm. That is why those tools exist...not for cleaning as blank fire reenactors use them.
Three rounds a minute was considered standard if I remember correctly. What Sharpe is doing is relying on a technique where you don't actually ram the bullet down the barrel, but tap the butt on the ground and hope to God that the bullet goes down. By the time you've fired a number of rounds, the fouling would be so bad as to prevent the bullet from descending the barrel with a simple tap of the rifle butt. This could lead to bad things happening, but would certainly reduce the velocity of the ball significantly. I don't think it was a technique that was used regularly in the British Army, and certainly was rarely if ever used with a dirty barrel. Black powder fouling is pretty massive, and after you've fired 20 rounds also even if you're ramming, it's difficult to get the bullet to seat and eventually it becomes too hard - barrel then needs cleaning before you resume firing. I know this because I have shot black powder firearms a fair bit, and came across the problem myself.
Yup agreed. Our aim was to show that you don't need to cut corners like Sharpe does in order to achieve the same effect. We didn't have fouling issues while shooting this, but then we used two muskets.
Brilliant video very enjoyable and I would urge anyone who hasn’t read the Richard shop books is give them a try. They are brilliant sharp always argues you should be over to 53 shots a minute but to do it properly you need to be over to do four, hence why he was trying to show up Simson who he didn’t like because he was a flogger. From what I hear in the British army we had the muskets which were a standard weapon then we had the green jacket to use the rifles. Napoleon didn’t like rifles because he thought they were waste of time because they took too long to load and fire. 11:06
In the Shape books, Richard tells the story of going out and practicing for hours as a raw recruit, after his first experience in battle show him how bad he was. In the “Yankee Pasha” book and movie a big deal is made of firing a rifle two times a minute in a real fire fight, which was considered impossible on the Barbary Coast.
I have a flintlock rifle that I have hunted with in all weathers. It's a little different from the musket you are talking about in that it is rifled and that loading is much slower. You are lucky in a hunting situation to get off one round a minute. There are speedloaders which, like paper cartridges, help speed up the process but still, you basically come into your hunt with one shot and one shot only. Getting the gun to fire is also a challenge. The whole flint striking metal thing seems incredibly primitive when you think about it. I have experienced the flint getting dull to where it won't fire. What you need, in a hunting situation, or a combat situation, it a presteen sharp flint. I also had little nails in my bag which had little notches filed into the nail. I would hook a notch into the edge of the flint and tap the nail with a rock or whatever. That would chip a piece from the flint and extend the life of the flint. I would save that sort of thing for the range. I always started a hunt with a fresh flint. Moisture is also an enemy of flintlocks. I have hunted in wet weather. The thing I did was keep a small wad of toilet paper in the pan to soak up moisture as it entered that area. When I felt a shot was close, I would throw away the toilet paper and prime the pan. If that moment passed without a shot, I would wipe away the powder from the pan and put a new piece of toilet paper in the pan. Flintlocks are a challenge all of their own and hunting with those challenges was a pretty cool experience. You are thinking about how people hunted or fought 250 years ago.
am curious, is he also shooting ball as well or just blanks, i have done 4 live rounds a minute tap loading with my 1766 Charliville during a compitition stake shoot.
Hi there, producer here - I can confirm that these were blank rounds. For one thing this was shot in the UK where the laws on ammunition and gun control are very strict. This was not shot at a range where live ammunition might have been feasible. As others have said, there are major dangers associated with using live ammunition in reproduction muskets - they generally aren’t treated to withstand the increased pressures. And finally there is absolutely no way I’d expose my team to the associated risks of live firing. You’re right, there is a small recoil, but that’s just the reality of using black powder. The recoil would be much worse with live ammunition. Hope that helps. 👍
@@thenapoleonicwars I've used our club repro 'Bess with round ball and the recoil wasn't actually that bad - more of a surge than a shoulder breaker. I couldn't swear to using an historical full charge, but with my own .50 BP carbine the main effect of doubling the charge was an increase in the number of complaints about air pollution... 😁
I read once that the soldier would close their eyes because of the 'explosion' in the pan. We moderns don't think about that. Does this flash actually present a problem? Did they close their eyes or keep them open?
If you watch one of the 'over the shoulder' slow-mos really carefully, you'll see Liam squeeze his eye shut for exactly this reason. He has also come away with powder burns from re-enactment shows, so it is definitely a thing. Great question. 👍
It really shouldn’t be a big subject . Ignition from pan fails to reach the charge in the barrel ! Flash typically result of touch hole blockage through previous fire action / powder slurry through damp or other non discharge .Re-prime after cleaning pan and touch hole , cleaning frizzen in process ( whilst observing safety protocols )
It was 3 shots a minute. Sharpe fired four, but he started with a loaded musket. Accuracy was not a concern as the weapons weren't accurate in the best of circumstances. Also, they were not expected to keep it up indefinitely. After a few rounds, they would fix bayonets and charge.
What happens if you get a misfire, and in the heat of battle you load another round on top of the one already loaded? Would they both go off simultaneously, would the barrel explode or what?
Great question. Firstly, you'd know it had misfired, so you would be unlikely to make this mistake, and there was a tool that you could attach to the end of the ramrod to effectively drill the bullet out, and then you could tip the powder out. If you did double load, a lot would depend on why you misfired. If the flint had gone, then it would be unlikely to fire on a second attempt, but if it was a lack of priming, then a double charge had the power to potentially explode the barrel.
As an American, with my smoothbore TVM fowler I can do it with no wadding and premade paper cartridges, if I start with a loaded gun. But with my TVM rifle with patch and ball loader from horn and measure I can only get 2 .
You have to consider the men during this time period would have been much more experienced with these weapons, doing this in much harsher conditions, amped up on adrenaline, with disorienting and deafening sounds going off around them (not to mention the more horrific sounds of people screaming in pain). I can imagine some very well trained soldiers doing these movements with extreme efficiency and speed... not to cut down on the guy in the video or anything, especially since he was successful, but he's from a different time.
Completely fair point. Liam himself acknowledges he does this for fun, and we actually did a follow up interview just for patrons, where we acknowledge this point. You can't replicate a battle of the period, no matter how hard reenactors try.
It seems like the shoulder arms step is superfluous in an actual combat situation. Seems like it takes at least a couple of seconds during each firing sequence that could be eliminated.
Great video. I did reenactment for the US National Park Service for a few years, firing muskets almost every day, and I have been able to fire 4 shots in a minute, but only a few times and everything has to go perfectly as you showed. 3 shots per minute is a more realistic rate of fire, and, of course, this is not in an actual battle. If it's a fire at will situation, your well trained and battle experienced troops could probably maintain 3 shots per minute, but in a fire on command situation you are at the mercy of your slowest individual. Again, excellent video.
> I would suppose that a trained soldier would have practiced the loading and firing operations hundred ----perhaps thousands of times. You note that your daily practice made a significant difference. Such practice is just what armies do to become competent.
I've read accounts of how Americans in the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 often suffered from a shortage of flint, and the flint they had only lasted 20 - 40 shots.
In the film the Patriot, which is the American Revolution, I noticed that when British Soldiers firing their muskets would turn their heads and look away when firing. I noticed it in the Battle of Camden scene. Is that a normal thing?
Looking away not so much (you need to keep the gun pointing at the target), but if you watch Liam carefully in the slow motion shots (especially the super-slow-mo over the shoulder shot), you can see him squeeze his right eye shut because of the risk of powder burns.
First rule in firing a musket like Sharpe is to take your shirt off when the camera's on you or when there's a young woman about.
Can't believe we missed this fundamental rule 😆
Now that's soldiering
Second rule is to say ‘bastard’ on a regular basis.
Seems reasonable
Made more hilarious by the fact a suggested video underneath this one, has "Sharpe teaching how to fire" with no shirt on!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The line of dialogue in "Sharpe's Eagle" was the "ability to fire 3 rounds a minute in all weather". Private Dobbs manages to fire 4 rounds but then collapses. Sharpe also instructs the South Essex in the way of "tap loading" and not use the ramrod. However in "Sharpe's Battle" he teaches the Irish Company how to load and fire muskets the traditional way.
I thought it was 3/minute, not 4. 3 is a much more realistic goal. I'm glad you pointed this out. Saved me having to go hunt down the scene.
Thank you for your sharp(es) observation.
Different script writers for these episodes?
Yes I remember the line in the series by Sharpe's character. I never read the books.
I can consistently load 3 a minute give or take 5 seconds with cartridge....traditionally loaded with returned rammer.
I have done 4 a few times, however that fast is perfect weather, and fresh flint.
Tap loading only works if you discard the paper, and drop the bullet (roundball or buckshot) naked. With the paper it is too tight a fit.
Rifles can't be tap loaded as the ball must fit hard and be driven into the groves...or patched where the patch does that.
The most without misfire for me was 36 rounds in a competition. I came in 2nd. The winner has 39.
Now we were both using Miroku replica 1763 French muskets...that were manufactured in the 1970s. Both well cared for having shot thousands of blank and live rounds.
I don't think we could replicate that reliability in 21st century replica imports.
I have shot muskets for over 30 years and I have couple of observations. The flint - it matters where it was from. In the 1800's and before the flints were all from Suffolk and mined from the area around Grimes Graves. These flints are about as good as can be obtained. I knap my own gunflints from flint purchased from there. It is not unusual to get 120 + shots from one flint. Commercial flints (often black in colour) tend to be heat treated to allow easier knapping (thus increasing production). I would be lucky to get 30 shots from one of these commercial flints. So getting the authentic flints makes a big difference.
Firing ball means things also slow down a bit - getting it rammed home through the fouling takes a few moments more to make certain it is seated. There is no going off the aim if there is delay or hangfire - you have to take normal safety precautions, hold it in the shoulder and give it a bit longer in case it cooks off a live round. Firing blank is one thing, firing ball is another.
@jasonb1776 Hello Jason. Could I ask please where do you order these flints from Grimes Graves? Thank you very much.
Dido on the hang fire.
@@jasonb1776 Hello Jason….. where can I order Grimes Graves flint from? Thank you
Read the book. Start with a loaded and prime musket. First shot fired #1 second. 50 plus seconds remaining for three more shots. Cromwell states only the best could accomplish this. The made for TV series is complete crap.
Very interesting about the flints, thank you
I’ve tried similar tests with a replica French model 1777. Sustained and accurate fire at this rate is not possible. After six or so shots, the barrel gets too hot to touch. After several shots, especially in humid weather, the barrel is too fouled to fire accurately.
There was tests performed in France during the wars and they had to be ended because the barrels became so hot that they risked igniting the powder while loading.
Really interesting, thanks Mark.
Yes, barrel heating is definitely a thing. I took to wearing a wool glove on my left hand during battle reenactments to protect from getting burned. Barrel fouling is an issue, but this was mitigated by using undersized bullets. For example, the British Land Pattern muskets, aka the Brown Bess, had a .75 caliber bore, but the round ball caliber was. 72 to .73, which allows loading with a fouled barrel. Also, keep in mind a musket is basically a spear that can shoot. They are inaccurate, and initial engagement ranges were relatively close in most cases so the number of shots was limited before you engaged with the bayonet. In the reenactment, we did where we were assaulting enemy troops in a fixed fortification I could get off ten shots with some luck before it went hand to hand. This event is what led to wearing the glove.
Ramming is the key to consistant firing of more than 10 shots. Its definitely possible and fore me demonstrable to fire more than 5 shots tap loading in a minute. Ramming I can and have done 4 using a 1777ix infantry
Eight to ten rounds before fouling took hold, in a Brown Bess and a Charleville, when my re-enacting group tried it.
@@patwarner397 Interesting. I lost count of how many rounds we went through, but we must have managed c.15+ over the course of the day, and didn't sluice the barrel. We did use two muskets though, so that would probably explain it.
Sharpe asked for _three_ rounds, no "four."
Well Sharpe did technically cheat. He started with a loaded musket then only needed to reload 3 times
Sean Bean asked for nothing more than his actor's pay!🤣🤣🤣🤣
sharp had a rifle not a musket
@phililpb These are the comments I am hear for.
Harper: _"What is it Mr Sharpe says makes a good soldier?"_
Sigh, the line was "three rounds a minute in any weather". If you're going to bust a myth, then at least get the myth right first.
Paper Cartridges also has done this, he got 4 shots per minute using something roughly like the proper way. The spit tap method was more like 2-3 rounds per minute. He started with an unloaded musket, but he was not bringing it to the shoulder and pausing before going to the firing position. He also goes into some depth about why the spit tap method is bad, and why the cartridges were constructed the way they were.
Yeah, our experiment was really focused on whether it can be done by sticking exactly to the drill manual. You can definitely manage more by cutting corners on the drill.
@@thenapoleonicwars Well, that's interesting. It kinda flies in the face of my above comments premise but, in the beginning of the video it really sounded like you were testing the Sharpe's method. If that's not the case, the introduction is rather misleading.
Sharpe taught his men that bits of doctrine could be skipped in a real fight, in cornwells Starbucks novels the ram rod was not returned but leant against the body for easy access saving time.
Don't shoulder the musket between loading and firing and you'll save 6-10 seconds in the sequence. Also, the ramrod can be stuck in the ground rather than replacing in the stock. Not typical practice but can save a lot of fumbling in a stationary engagement.
Yeah, part of the point of the exercise (which we didn't explain in the video because it would have made the narration tedious) is that we did everything in line with the drill manual, hence why we didn't cut corners. Tbh I think even I could have done 4 rounds with the ramrod in the ground.
fumbling ramrod is avoided with right technique
Ramrod in the ground frowned upon, even a slight change of position and you’re in danger of leaving it behind.
@@thenapoleonicwars The first thing any soldier does in the heat of battle is throw the drill manual away!
Any sergeant would have been "upset" seeing a ramrod stuck in the ground, and would have made his displeasure known to the offender. The musket is pretty much useless without the ramrod. yes, one could possibly have tap loaded a couple of rounds, but bear in mind the drill was designed for battalion sized elements firing in a line formation. The idea was that everyone does the same thing at the same time, so that the battalion can fire a volley at the enemy.
2:28 I thought that the phrase `a flash in the pan` referred to the powder in the pan failing to ignite the charge in the barrel.
Correct 👍🏻
It kind of is. You can get the flash, but for whatever reason, with no boom from the gun itself.
@Rob-e8w A "flash in the pan" is usually due to an obstructed touchhole which is a hole in the barrel leading from the pan where the priming charge is to the breach area of the musket. One of the tools you would carry and have readily available in a vent pick for cleaning the touchhole.
I think the phrase is usually used in the context of “just a flash in the pan”, meaning the main charge failed to ignite.
"flash in the pan": someone who is all show with a lot of noise and fury...... but with no substantial result, i.e. the tribal medicine man in _F Troop_ . What is referred to as a doghead I always heard called the cock ( kinda looks like one), hence the term "going off half-cocked".
I thought it was 3 rounds a minute in Sharpe not 4?
Either way, it is nonsense as British doctrine was a single volley followed up with the bayonet, not extended firefights
@@stuartjarman4930 For attacking an opposing line or position yes. But not always. Defending positions wouldn't bayonet charge out fortifications. There are plenty of scenarios where extended firefights took place.
@@stuartjarman4930 not always, platoon fire decimated the French at Waterloo
@@stuartjarman4930 That's not true, during the Napoleonic wars British troops would often do extended platoon fire against French columns during defensive battles like Talevera and Busaco as in most battles of the Peninsula the British were outnumbered.
A continuous rate of 3 rounds per minute could imply that in the first minute of fire that 4 rounds were fired, because the musket would probably arrive within rage already loaded.
I used to shoot as a member of the Vintage Arms Association. Rifle shooting at Purfleet Ranges, Gravesend, UK. Brown Bess flintlock musket. .75 cal. Best I could do was 3 rounds per minute. If it was warm and dry.
Just fyi, the phrase "lock and load" came from the way one loaded a flintlock musket from a cartridge: first priming the pan(the "lock"), then pouring the rest of the powder and the bullet down the barrel(load)
Thank you, I've wondered about that expression.
Priming the pan was not the lock. The lock was literally locking the hammer back prior to priming the pan. The loading of the shot had to precede the priming of the pan on a muzzle loading musket or rifle, lest the priming powder fall out of the pan while ramming home the shot.
The modern use of "lock and load" is nonsensical. It is used in TV shows and copycats in the military where the phrase "weapons free" should be used.
When actually performing a "lock and load," the safety is locked in place prior to loading a magazine into the receiver and charging the bolt. This prevents the firing pin from being triggered and striking the round in the chamber.
In the movies, a firearm is ready to fire after a "lock and load" but in the real world the safety is disengaged upon a command of "weapons free". Anyone having a live weapon after only hearing "lock and load" is a danger to himself and those around him.
@@gaiustacitus4242 Number one, I wasn't talking about "modern" firearms
Number two, the reason one doesn't prime the pan of a flintlock before loading(these days, at least) is for safety reasons, i.e. having the gun go off unexpectedly
When a British soldier loaded his weapon, he used a paper cartridge containing both powder and ball. A pinch of powder was first put in the priming pan, and the frizzen(or "hammer", as it was called then) closed over the pan. The only way the priming could have fallen out was if the frizzen didn't close all the way, which would be a mechanical defect, and could have rendered the musket unfireable.
I suggest you consult the British manual of arms for loading a flintlock musket.
By the way, I've fired flintlocks for many years, and I've NEVER had the priming fall out once the frizzen was down on the pan
@@gaiustacitus4242I've never heard this expression been used in sense you've mentioned. Probably 'cos I never watched that kind of shows. But I had heard it in meaning "I'm ready" or something like that. And I always thought that it's only normal and logical meaning of that expression
Wow I've wondered what that meant since hearing it used on the tv show Tour Of Duty in the 80's! Thank you
Nice work. This is the only other demonstration of the correct footwork I have seen. I wouldn't hasten to put too much weight on this, modern experience regarding misfires though... Reproduction muskets may have poorly harden hammers, or bad flints may shatter... Misfires certainly are a factor in the case of general flintlock practice, but "conclusive" observations based on a somewhat flawed foundation need to be taken with the necessary grain of salt. Of course, we don't see the larger picture of how his firelock functions 'normally' and this might have been a case of the muzzleloading gods being cantankerous.... It wasn't shown in the video, but was the flint knapped once it ceased to function properly? It's hard to tell, but is the flint held in leather or lead?
Thanks for the comment, I’m a huge fan of your work and have used it a lot in training. It was the first time firing this firelock so it was taking some time to get used to its nuances, it is an Indian made reproduction. The muzzleloading gods have since become much less fickle when using it. The flint was indeed knapped but it didn’t want to spark at all. The hammer itself was newly hardened. The flint was in leather, although I’ve toyed with the thought of using lead I haven’t yet. What’s your experience of the difference, if any?
@@LiamTelfer1985 glad to hear the gods’ fickleness was fleeting! I use leather for the flint and never had issue to change. What did you use to harden the hammer? Great to see a well put together demo with good turn out and soldierly handling of the weapon! If you haven’t already had a chance to fire live, make all possible arrangements to do so! Even more take aways! Great job.
The hammer was hardened for me by the gunsmith Peter Dyson and now that I rectified the flint issue sparks very well indeed. Thanks again for the feedback, as you know it’s a lot of commitment to build a solid impression and praise from someone I hold in such high regard is greatly appreciated.
@@LiamTelfer1985 Glad to hear things worked out. Don't mind me though, I'm just some silly plonk who likes shooting.....
Hi Rob and Liam, all interesting stuff. I'm interested, Rob, in the suggestion here that reproduction muskets are less reliable than the originals. What I took, possibly erroneously, from your videos on firing the Brown Bess was that reproductions - and crucially with modern black powder - were probably more reliable and consistent than the originals. Certainly, I was impressed at your ability to land all of the musket balls on a No4 target at 100 yards. Even as a (latter day) light infantryman, I didn't think that was possible.
As far as 4 rounds per minute, I think that even Cornwell suggested that that was possible only when you started with a loaded musket. And in any case, if you were skirmishing, you would wish to take your time. If, on the other hand, you were in the line at close range, the object was to land a couple of good volleys and charge. High rate of fire close quarter volleying just got all of your guys killed. So delivering the second volley before the other side delivered theirs was hopefully all you needed to do.
Sharpe must be one of the few tv series/films where Sean Bean actually survives. He seems to die at a frightful rate no matter what he is in.
Not Ronin. He just gets the sack. 🙂
In The Martian he also gets fired.
Well he has to make up for a lot of situations, Sharpe survived everything no matter the odds.
Not read the books or seen the TV, but my dad was a fan.
He said Sharpe was a 'rifleman' hence the green jacket.
The rife was loaded and fired carfully to engage long range targets accurately from cover ...the greenjackets were akin to today's snipers and recon units.
They only fired twice a minute at most...half the rate of a musketeer.
Absolutely right. The leather-wrapped ball was harder to ram down the barrel due to the rifling. In the scene we refer to though, Sharpe fires off four rounds while using a smoothbore musket, which is why we did the exercise this way.
Even with preloaded powder charges, it is a challenge to get three shots off per minute with a rifled bore
It depended on how they were deployed and what they were doing. Riflemen could be expected to 'stand the line', at which point the expectation was the same three rounds a minute of a musket. Similarly if called upon to form square they'd be looking for three rounds per minute. They were actually issued two separate types of ammunition for just such occurrences - the loose leather wrapped bullets for skirmishing or sharpshooting work, and regular paper cartridges for line work. It's one of the inaccuracies in the Sharpe TV show that the men are always seen using the paper cartridges.
Interesting stuff- thanks. It backs up my experience with trying to get 4 live rounds off in a minute. I only ever managed 3, but that was starting with an unloaded musket. Adding the musket ball slows it down even further, especially after the barrel starts to foul.
Got twenty off in under a minute,(well under actually), but then I was using an SLR
Wasn't one of the tricks used in the book "Sharpe's Eagle" was that Sharpe started with a loaded musket, and the clock started when he fired? Only need to reload in 30 sec for 3 shots/min (20 sec for 4 shots/min)
@richardhubbard540 - best I managed with someone timing me was 3 shots in 1 minute and 5 seconds starting unloaded. It's very difficult, any slip or fumble ruins the attempt. Also didn't feel 100% safe. I used a 12 gauge doglock and a belly box for the cartridges. The cartridges had a 695 ball and the whole lot went down the barrel with the exception of the priming charge as per manual of arms
That last attempt was actually a nail-biter. Crazy impressive.
Reading Sharpe a long time ago I calculated that a thousand musketeers firing 3 rounds per minute would rain down 50 shots per second on the enemy. Ever heard that buzzing from a neon light fitting? That's 50 cycles per second. Same rate. Imagine the damage that can do, 50 balls per second raining down, they wouldn't even have to aim.
Sharpe Got off 5 in the book in his demonstration run (having loaded first). Apparently Sir John Moore himself was recorded as having fired 5 rounds a minute impressing his men as a young officer. I suspect 3 was the ideal.
This was great. I have no doubt professional soldiers at the time were able to accomplish things that we today would think of as impossible. With dedicated practice incredible feats can be achieved, especially when your life depends upon it. Just look how insanely fast modern gun enthusiasts in the USA can shoot - for anyone who doesn’t regularly do that activity you would genuinely think some of the modern speeds are impossible if you couldn’t see it with your own eyes. Obviously not saying that wellington had an army of John Wicks 😂 but logically the same principle applies to historians and reenactment enthusiasts trying to compete on the same level as professionals. Just as the same logic applies to amateur/professional athletes.
Exactly. I guess most soldiers were slow but few elite could fire really fast.
They may be fast but do they hit anything?
@@Ettrick8 Afaik Muskets were not exactly precision weapons. The damage was done by firing volleys into the enemy formation (a fairly large target) at relatively close range. Also, one does not need to kill to reduce the enemy's ability to fight back. In fact 'only' injuring the opposing soldiers is more harmful to morale and the soldier in question is out of the fight regardless. It also is a burden on a strategic level as wounded soldiers need to be collected from the battlefield, be tended to and fed, without pulling their weight in the next fight (if they were able to fight again at all).
@@oliturner4710 the Duke of Wellington in 1811 in London organised a test. During this test, the Brown Bess muskets were fired at a wooden shield representing an infantry or cavalry line. The results were as follows:
At a distance of 100 yards (91 meters), 53% of the shots hit the target.
At 200 yards (180 meters), 30% of the shots hit.
At 300 yards (270 meters), 23% of the shots hit.
These results highlighted the musket’s effectiveness at shorter ranges, which was typical for smoothbore muskets of that era
@@sksaddrakk5183 what was more important was everyone firing volleys simultaneously and leaving Sharpe to skirmish
Good demonstration of why the order "Fix bayonets!" wasn't usually given before it was time for a bayonet charge. You'd cut yourself loading the bloody musket in such a hurry. I've fired a Hawken .50 cal. rifle a few times; the greased patch & rifling demands more effort with the ram rod, so more accurate but slower...
Rapidly of fire wasn't everything. General Wolfe of Quebec fame was more concerned that his troops properly loaded their muskets rather than rapidly of fire. It was also common practice to have the first rank of a three rank line which was kneeling reserve their fire for emergencies while ranks two and three performed the platoon exercise (fired by platoons). I know British infantry in the Napoleon's wars normally formed in two ranks but fire in three ranks was commonly used in the earlier 18th century. There were those who say that Frederick the Great's Prussians could fire five times a minute but this was only on the parade ground using blank cartridges. One other thing to keep in mind is that the balls historically used were smaller in relation to the bore. British troops using the Land Pattern musket with a bore of about .753 were using balls of about .685. This is based on the archeological report at Fort Necessity in Pennsylvania
Four rounds a minute? Now, that's soldiering!
Shouldering the weapon after reloading may have been omitted in combat that would've saved maybe 10 seconds
You shoulder the weapon because you cannot fire until ordered to do it. These men fired volleys.
Black powder leaves a residue in the barrel on each shot.. after several shots (depending on actual bore diameter and quality of the powder) it becomes harder and harder to get the ball down the barrel.
Eventually the barrel has to be cleaned. My experience was about 13 shots was the max for a .45 cal rifle with patched ball. With a smaller caliber rifle you should get fewer shots. With the larger military calibers and unpatched balls you should get a few more shots. Most of the 1700s era cartridge boxes had wood blocks with holes for 14-18 cartridges. I've always suspected this was about the max. number of rounds you could get off before powder fouling restricted or stopped your firing.
I've always thought that biting into the paper satchels of gunpowder for a whole battle would have left the the most horrible taste in your mouth by the end of the day.
It's more than possible to fire four rounds a minute even without the weapon being already loaded. Most reenactors simply don't have the practice to do it. I worked at a Historic Site for many years where we trained people for 2 months of the summer every day on and off to fire the musket and every single member of our staff could do a 15 second load after 2 months of practice. I've seen people who can do it in 10 seconds at least for a single shot and I've seen many people do 4 rounds continuously in a minute. They grab the wood of the stock to avoid the barrel heat and power through round after round. A better knapped flint would also severely reduce his misfires.
0:22 "this is what the British were doing to beat the French in the Napoleonic wars" I think people forget the Napoleonic wars is more than just Waterloo, and that Waterloo was not vs the Grande Armée
We run an entire podcast on exactly this point. 👍
Keeping the ramrod permanently out and sticking it into your belt instead of returning it to the gun would help, but of course would have been against regulations. A concerted volley would have been impossible anyway if every soldier works at his limits. Wait until 80% have loaded, then fire the volley. Those who lag behind will join the next volley.
Or if not in line and required to move you can keep the rammer hooked between your fingers, or propped up against something. As Srgt Harper does in the first episode, your last shot you can always send the rammer too.
Really nice work on this. Good idea with slo-mo to show each step.
Glad you liked it!
I’ve always heard what you call the hammer as the frizzen.
Thanks for the comment. Frizzen is a more modern term. We're particularly careful about things like this for obvious reasons.
And what is referred to as a doghead I've always heard called the cock. Thus 'half cocked'.
No the frizzen is the vertical item that the hammer/dog head strikes
@@ronvaughan4600 Today that part is known as the frizzen. Historically it was called the hammer. Frizzen is a more modern term. At the time, they would have referred to that part of the musket as the hammer. That's why we called it that in the video - believe me, we've done our research on this 👍
@@ronvaughan4600 That is what I was referring to. What you are calling the hammer I think was referred to as the cock. @thenapoleonicwars enlightened me as to the old and new terminology for the frizzen. Perhaps he can tell us what the contemporary term was for the cock/dog, if different. I think the modern term for the hammer probably came about when percussion caps were invented.
Fantastic effort and very smartly done. I made a similar video but did not have the period correct uniform and accountrements, and therefore had to set the cartridges on a bench, and everyone commented to say I couldn't do it when loading from the actual cartridge box. This video proves that it was indeed quite possible to be done, loading from the cartridge box and using the period drill, without any special Sharpe fictional inventions like spit-loading or butt-thumping. Excellent job!
From what I remember in the TV series, his emphasis was from not being loaded to use that quick Pace and to be able to get off three rounds in a minute. The TV show seemed to abandon this four rounds per minute concept and concentrate on fully loading and discharging three rounds per minute.
Instead of bringing the musket up to the left shoulder after loading. What if you imminently made ready and fired.. that would save a few seconds each time.
Have shot 4 in a minute with a Brown Bess. Started loaded and tap loaded in Light Infantry style at a show in Dumbarton
do it with a ram rod or your fooling your self. Use the correct technique and its not hard.
@@michaelwright4456Not at all. A 71st HLI private shot 5 in a minute using tap loading in the Penninsula. But that was in action, using live ammo, not pretending or fooling yourself at reenactment!
@@markus000karkus Yes you can tap load for about 10 shots then your muzzle becomes to fouled to shoot Ramming the cartridge paper down partly cleans the barrel with each shot. if you are firing live rounds expect less than 10 round before its too fouled to get a ball down
...From the voice of much experience live and blank firing.
@@michaelwright4456 not so in my experience and as I say, in a real battle, 10 shots could be the difference between surviving or dying!
My father had a flint lock, and it seemed to be 6 foot long to me as a kid. Later on we all bought the kits that made a cap and ball. Even with the cap and ball there was a short hesitation between the pulling of the trigger and it going off. But even those would foul out as where the cap sit would clog up from the residue. But fun times.
I think if other shortcuts were taken it could be possible but I wouldn't be certain on reliability. For example, tapping the butt of the musket on the ground instead of using the ramrod (or at the very least just staking it in the ground rather than putting it away after each use. Skipping the shoulder arms stage after the load would shave a couple of seconds off per cycle too.
3 is easy, and a few things can go wrong before you get good enough for 4.
Excellent video Zack
I was surprised how little of a kick there is when firing black powder rifles. It's more of a push then a kick. I have introduced a few people to black powder, and they all say the same thing: "58 / 69 caliber? That thing's gotta kick like a mule!" Then they try it. "It doesn't kick!" and the smile is wonderful and they can't wait to do it again.
Out of interest though, are you firing with or without the ball loaded? Our conversations with those who have done both indicates that the musket has quite a kick to it with the lead bullet loaded?
@@thenapoleonicwars I don't think I've ever intentionally fired without a loaded bullet. Maybe it seems so unkicky because I was used to WW II battle rifles. I once walked around an unofficial shooting field with a Mosin Nagant carbine, the one with the folding bayonet, plinking at every leftover can and shutgun shell. About half an hour, maybe 50-60 shots. The wooden furniture got so hot I had to hold it by the sling only, but it never felt like it kicked too hard. On the other hand, I hate shooting .357 magnum, but .38+P+ is fine. My favorite black powder long arms are a smooth bore .69 1842 Springfield replica and a rifled .58 1861 Springfield replica, and they are so heavy, that helps tame them too.
Brilliant - nice to see the full firing sequence broken down and explained - great slow motion work as well.
Cheers Craig. Glad you enjoyed it!
One thing that people often forget is if the two sides are equal in terms of accuracy and boots if one side can do 3 shots in a minute and the other can do 4 shots in 70 seconds, they're still ahead of things. The volleys are based on uniformity of everyone being the same standard which has pros and cons in of itself.
Yes, shooting in the Sharpe series was in a perfect TV/movie world. Can 4 rounds per minute be done, yes, if everything goes perfectly. Did it always go perfectly, no. But that doesn't mean it didn't all work almost perfectly most of the time. The men of Wellington's army had one thing over their enemies. The practiced and practiced and practiced. Mr. Telfer, I'm guessing, hasn't fired hundreds of rounds with a musket and needed to clear a musket with his life at risk if he doesn't. (I am not disparaging his military service, just putting into perspective.)
Yeah, what reenactors don't seem to realize is that a professional soldier would have fired hundreds or thousands of bullets in practice. A reenactor might fire a couple dozen a year. The level of experience makes a huge difference so could a Napoleonic era British regular do four a minute normally? Probably. Did they? No. Their doctrine was to fire sustained three rounds a minute, at which point after around 12 minutes the musket would be too hot to use which was nice since they would also have fired off most of the readily accessible bullets they carried on their person.
A fictional story isn't a good reference source while the actual manuals they used at the time are wonderful.
You're definitely not disparaging his service. Last I checked, the Brown Bess isn't the main weapon of the British anymore. Give him the weapon he used in the service vs a normal chap and see who works it better!
"...in any weather".
What impressed us was that Liam got through this without calling anyone a 'BASTARD!'
@@thenapoleonicwars Should have told him that if he couldn't do it he'd be flogged. I hear that's a motivator.
@@onehairybuddha Tbh though, he was the one with the gun, so he had more leverage! 🤣
I noticed some powder being wasted when tearing open the cartridge. This combined with the imprecision of priming the pan makes me wonder how much the great uncertainty of how much powder actually ends up in the barrel contributes to the inaccuracy of any given rifleman.
Fantastic observation. It probably wouldn't have affected accuracy (precision came from the quarter turn of rifling in the Baker rifle - Liam is using a smoothbore musket, which was the more common firearm of the time). But it would certainly have affected range.
I'm a big Cornwell fan, but I wondered at the 4-per-minute claim. I really had a hard time believing in spitting the ball down the barrel. 1. It might not make it all the way to the bottom and thus, cause a rupture in the barrel. 2. There would also be no wadding between the powder and ball, resulting in some loss of power and accuracy.
I had also heard that the French would average @ 2 shots per minute while the Brits were doing closer to 3.
I own a replica Hawken rifle with a cap/nipple instead of a flint lock. It can be a pain to remove sometimes. But thanks to your in depth explanation, I now see why it's more dependable than flint.
Glad you found the video enjoyable and useful 👍
I’ve done this once with a pedersoli ( brand new in the white) using priming powder and spit wads . One once balls 4 fired in 1 minute 3vseconds. The next time the flint failed after 2 shots. It worked lose. I don’t think it’s impossible just hard to keep up for more than a few dozen shots. Powder fouling and flint quality. Maybe the guys knew how to work their muskets better than we do
when l see a sharpe clickbait headline, l press play..that's my style sir
That's RUclips-watch-manship, Mr Pullings! By God that's RUclips-watch-manship!
I really liked the use of the brush to clean the priming pan and the picker to clear any burnt powder in the touchhole. The small chains (sometimes leather thongs) were, I believe, attached to a button in the centre of the tunic. 🇬🇧👍
Absolutely right! Liam is very careful to make sure that his kit is precisely accurate with the regulations of the period, and even has different kit arrangements depending on which regulations were in force during different points in the war - he's a seasoned pro with this stuff - its why we love working with him!
I saw a guy manage 5 once (cheated a couple of seconds I think, and yes the first was preloaded), but he was shooting blanks and cutting corners. Notably, he kept the ramrod in his hand the whole time, and pointed out that if he were in a dense line he'd be whipping the poor dude next to him. He said he did something to his cartages, too (perforated the tear maybe?), and had some comments on how infeasible that would have been that I don't recall. I think it would have been unsafe or much harder with a ball. Still fun for a demo, though.
Very correct explaining on firing a napoleonic musket. I am a reeanctor myself and my record is 0.58 starting with empty musket. So yeah, 4 shots is only possible with the musket already loaded.
I imagine it was possible for some exceptionally skilled individuals in good conditions to load and fire four shots in a minute, but I'm sure there weren't any armies doing it.
The quality of the lock is vital to good performance on a flintlock, as is a good quality of flint. Both English and French flints are usually excellent if properly knapped. I doubt that the locks of infantry were 'tuned' to the degree that they can be with a bit of work, or as well made as they can be, so the performance vis a vis good reliable ignition would have been at best variable.
Placement of the touch hole relative to the pan is critical, and helps when the pan is over primed (much more common than the reverse) which fouls up the flint and frizzen; I would posit that vents were pretty large on military muskets to help avoid blockages. Another factor was the very variable quality of the powder available.
I have no experience with smooth bores, having only owned flintlock rifles, which are slower to load... 2 rounds a minute (starting empty) is doing well, but then effective range is doubled... roundabouts and swings....
Love my flinter..... it is surprisingly accurate and can launch a .490" ball at around 2000 fps with a full charge, although for most purposes I run it at about 60%....
Sorry can I just say how incredibly vivid your description of the process is! Very cool
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Brilliant to see a modern service man show the way thanks lads great show
Appreciate the positivity - more like this coming soon!
And this is why archers continued to be used in China along with guns, 20 arrows a minute is not joke to underestimate
Genuine curiosity here: what's the effective range of a bow and arrow? (ie you'll hit something with lethal force, not just hitting what you aim at)
@@thenapoleonicwars Depends on the type of bow. Longbows actually had a better effective range than muskets against unarmoured targets (rifles can match them, though the longbow still fires faster). Of course you could train a musketman to the point of being useful in a month or so, while a longbowman was something like 15 years (rough guess, assuming the guy started training with lesser bows in his early teens or younger), minimum.
Note:
The British army could do this as they were the only European army that actually practiced regularly with hugely expensive LIVE AMMUNITION!
I'm 74 years old now and in my younger years I hunted with and shot for competition a .50 cal. flintlock. After one particular match in hot, humid weather I had two epiphanies. One epiphany was that there was a reason that our forefathers developed smokeless powder and the other was you don't have to take your compound bow apart and clean it everytime that you shoot it. Mada my life so much easier.
Liam also takes the ridiculous measure, part of reenactment, of standing to attention before volleys. Adds 2-4 seconds each shot. Guess what you are not doing when a french cavalrymen is charging you?
If a cavalryman is charging you and you're in square you're firing on command, not at will. So standing with arms shouldered is the sign that you are ready to present. You would therefore absolutely be standing to attention as per the drill. If you're in line, you're either running or forming square. So Liam's method absolutely stands. Its not a 'ridiculous measure', its doing things according to the drill manual, which is how the men were trained.
@thenapoleonicwars ... I don't even know where to start. When the battle starts you are at stance. When the first command to fire is given, with enemies still approaching, NO, you would not return to attention. You would probably be flogged or sent to latrine duty for being the dumbest sort, if you lived.
You are going to keep firing until given the order to cease, unless firing in ranks.
I can tell you that loading and firing blank cartridges (without a lead ball) is completely different than live ammunition. Blank charges have much less pressure at the breech and allow the touch hole to foul more readily and really crud up the bottom of the flint. Firing live rounds from a 'Bess leaves things much cleaner, for relative values of "clean", anyway. Also after half a dozen full charge live rounds from a Brown Bess your shoulder can really tell. That .75 bullet and the powder you push up the barrel under it (as ignition comes from the back) really translates to a wallop to the buttstock and the Brown Bess butt plate is no picnic being slightly domed out in the center and of solid brass.
It seems to me (former Napoleonic reenactor, 14th cuirasier) that it might be the hardness of the frizzen ( the part that's hit by the flint) can be the issue. My former flintlock pistol never misfired... the sparks come from the steel fragments and ignited by the flint... too soft steel makes no sparks.
You'll see that Liam has comment on this on another commenter's query, but his hammer (frizzen - we just use the period-appropriate word) has been through the necessary treatment to ensure it was hard enough. He's since managed to get the musket into a better place, but as we say in the voice over, we had issues with both muskets.
it would be faster to keep the ramrod out, and go straight from loading to firing instead of doing the shoulder rest in between
When firing at will in rapid succession, though (which is what this drill is meant to replicate), you wouldn't keep going back to "shoulder arms" every time. Go straight from "withdraw ramrod" to "make ready," and you'll shave off a couple seconds per shot. Also, if you place in the shot pouch a wooden block with holes drilled in it to hold the cartridges upright, you'll spend less time fumbling about.
Another observation: When Liam was racing the clock (look at 9:42 - 9:44 played back slowly, then again at 10:03-10:04), as he bit off the end of the cartridge, he actually wasted quite a bit of powder as he pulled the cartridge away from his mouth and spilled the powder into the air. Those times, it worked out, but I wonder if, when he was having trouble with misfires, some of it might have been due to undercharging either the pan or the barrel.
Interesting observation on the powder wastage. Bear in mind that Liam primes the pan first, so the wastage would have more impact on the charge that goes down the barrel, rather than the powder in the pan. The issue was that there was no spark - definitely a flint issue, as there was no ignition in the pan. A few folks have mentioned the bringing up to the shoulder 'wastage'. Ultimately soldiers were taught to fire on command, rather than fire at will, so whilst it is possible to shave the time off, as you say, it's not representative of the manoeuvres at the time. 👍
The 95th Rifles used the Baker rifle, which had better range but was slower to reload than a standard musket rifle due to the need to wrap the ball in greased linen. That limited them to 2 shots a minute.
Indeed. Although the scene in question where the idea springs from involves Sharpe training a light company equipped with muskets rather than rifles. 👍
i've been a re-enactor for 30 years and have three comments.- the smoke from the musket itself can form a coating on the pan meaning you can't get a spark, he did all those practice shots and that didn't help, it also clogs the touch hole. If i was seeing this while walking behind the firing line I'd be saying "Wipe them down!"and "Check your touch holes!" A flash in the pan is when it does go off in the pan but doesn't connect through the touch hole to set off the gun, see comment above "Clean 'em out!" Lastly you do NOT rest your musket but on the ground. You hold it just above it, among other things you put it down on mud and then hold it firmly to your shoulder you will discolour your regimental. I catch any on my men with it on the ground after a warning of "get it off the ground" and the next time it will be more personal "Are you so infirm you can't hold a musket in one arm? This is the british army, are you trying to be like the french?"
Liam's manoeuvres are literally done according to the drill manual that they used to train guys at the time.
So I am curious. I grew up learning a musket was smoothbore and a weapon with rifling was a rifle. And when I read Sharpe's rifles years ago I thought he was in the 95th Rifles regiment. So please explain to me how a discussion about how muskets firing rates addresses the topic at hand? Or what am I missing.
No worries, so I suspect you have not read Sharpe's Eagle, where Sharpe is promoted to Captain and attached to a regiment of redcoats. He is tasked with bringing the redcoats up to scratch, and as they are all equipped with muskets, instead of the Baker Rifle, he has to get them firing faster, and demonstrates that he can fire four rounds of musketry in a minute. 👍
@@thenapoleonicwars That must be the case. Thanks for the clarification.
Ive never seen Sharpe, but its definitely on my list of shows to watch. That being said, ive never ever heard of "4 shots a minute" with a muzzle loading musket. The saying ive always heard is: "A good infantryman should be to fire 3 shots per minute."
I think the misfires might have been managed by having more than one soldier firing at a time. Those guys seemed to fire in lines.
Frederick the Great's Prussians were allegedly trained to fire up to 6 rounds a minute, but it is highly unlikely they could do so in anything except ideal parade ground conditions.
Yeah, I think that's one of the big challenges with the whole exercise - you can't recreate what it was like to be in a battle with all the stresses and carnage.
Sharpe: "The ability to fire three rounds a minute in any weather, sir"
I am a War of 1812 (US vs Britain in North America) reenactor of some 12 years experience. Some observations, your flint appears to have no sheath. Flints are usually held in the jaws of the dog by a leather or lead wrap. I secures the flit tighter and helps to prevent shattering. Also here in NA we don't ram our paper as it can start fires on the field in dry weather. This slows us down a bit but as we have to pour the charge down the barrel. We also don't ram as a safety measure (a ram rod launched can kill). In the balance I think the timing evens out. I can regularly get 3, 4 or some times even 5 rounds off per minute. One other thing, you referred to the hammer when you meant the frizzen/pan cover.
Seems like a bad idea to put your mouth directly over the muzzle of a loaded and primed firearm, especially considering that there are sparks and burning powder flying around from everyone else in the line.
The British army did a study around this time and discovered that in any one volley, 15% of the muskets would not go off. Good job on following the manual and showing how it was supposed to be done.
I read somewhere that the standard for Washington's Continental Army was four rounds in 75 seconds. This seems doable with a simplified drill. Rate of fire is over emphasized nowadays. A battalion of muskets creates an instant smokescreen. Except at close range, rapid fire is wasting ammunition.
In many occasions the British army faced larger numbers of French troops. By being able to fire three times to the French two it evened the odds. Despite the smoke if you are getting twice as many shots away in the general direction of your enemy as they are getting in your direction then you are doing some good. The same principal applied to British ships who could fire faster than the French ships. This meant that during a battle the total amount of metal they shot was larger than the enemy even with smaller cannon and ships.
@@unclekevin5094 As I understand it, the French tended to fight in columns, which meant only the front and side of the column could fire. Several well directed volleys could disrupt the attack of the column. Another point that everyone seems to overlook is that the troops did not carry unlimited ammunition. Controlled volley fire was more effective. Yes at close range, when the enemy is closing, the ability to fire rapidly was crucial, but that wasn't sustainable for a long period of time.
I’ve seen arguments that the British tended to wait until the enemy was close before delivering the first volley. They would take some casualties from enemy fire, but the concentrated volley from thirty yards, from clean barrels and fresh flints - apparently was so much more effective that it was worthwhile.
@@jaydunno8266 Generally if you're in a column the intent is not to exchange fire with the enemy but to charge him. The emphasis on speed is because by the 19th century they'd moved away from volley to platoon fire, which requires every man is capable of firing and reloading at a regular rate in order to keep up continuous fire from the unit.
Fed up of reading about unrealistic rates of fire. In a battle, I imagine that even two a minute would be unlikely.
Rate of fire is going to depend on so many things - fouling, flints, nerves, training, officers, etc
Count Alexander Suvorov's approach ("The bullet's a fool, the bayonet's a fine lad") makes more sense when you consider these low rates of fire. He wrote in "Train Hard, Fight Easy" about the emphasis on training, accurate fire, and speed. Although they never met in battle, Suvorov is considered by many historians to have been Napoleon's peer as a military leader and perhaps better than Napoleon in terms of logistics.
I don't own a flintlock but occassionaly have a go at the range on a club firearm. Percussion caps were a great invention!!
The hang fire and indeed the slow fire of a perfectly functioning firearm makes it hard to get off shots. And do it in the rain? That is why Sharpe is all about 3 shots in all weathers, but there are episodes in Cornwell's books where Sharpe wins a fight without firing, because the powder is rain soaked.
No idea how the heck I ended up here, but that was great. Sharpe is one of my favourite shows and its great to see that this is actually possible.
Cheers Anthony, glad you enjoyed the video!
God damn he looks Sharpe AF!!
It makes perfect sense that the rifle would be loaded as the timer starts. The soldiers would load as they near the Battlefield, in case of ambush or sudden call to action
Really good point, actually. Thanks for sharing Steve 👍
Marshal Maurice de Saxe wrote: "Light infantry should be able to fire 6 shots a minute, but under the stress of battle 4 should be allowed for."
It's difficult to see how this could be accomplished, but there are period claims to that effect.
Light infantry who aren't formed up in line for company or battalion scale vollies can take a lot of shortcuts with the drill and have it matter due to not needing to coordinate on such a large scale. And supposedly particularly well trained line units could manage 4 a minute under decent conditions (presumably by way of their officers incorporating some of the more suitable shortcuts into the entire battalion's drill... or just having done the drill that many times.)
I always thought it was silly that they properly replaced the ramrod each time into that small slot. It would be much quicker so simply hold it alongside the length of the musket after each ram.
4 a minute was the 1st set of firings only. A soldier marched with a loaded musket or rifle. Most modern interpreters do not. They load on the line at 2PM just as the show starts....or in firing competition, as soon as the safety officer says commence.
Good conclusion
Where do you find reference to soldiers marching with loaded muskets?
@@petercollingwood522 are you confusing soldiers with reenactors or actual actors.
If soldiers are marching in column or patrol in country, they are armed and ready, same as today. When put on guard duty. Even behind lines as it was part of the readiness. Battles don't just start at 2pm when the paying crowd is behind the viewing line.
Yes they had muskets and rifles already loaded. So did settlers on wagon trains and hunters.
@@STho205 No. I'm not. I'm asking where you read that Napoleonic soldiers in column of march would have their muskets loaded while shouldered or slung? Seems like a particularly stupid thing to do to me. So just curious as to your source given that these events occured over two centuries ago and modern practices, or peoples guesses about them are long removed from the time in question.
@petercollingwood522 it was a custom of practice to load after morning colors. It is in most CoP volumes of the era from 1800 through the muzzle era in most armies in Europe and America. Loading 1st time after you are confronted is ludicrous.
Yes if the musket had to be unloaded in bivouac or garrison, they pulled the bullet with a punch then the cartridge with a worm. That is why those tools exist...not for cleaning as blank fire reenactors use them.
Three rounds a minute was considered standard if I remember correctly. What Sharpe is doing is relying on a technique where you don't actually ram the bullet down the barrel, but tap the butt on the ground and hope to God that the bullet goes down. By the time you've fired a number of rounds, the fouling would be so bad as to prevent the bullet from descending the barrel with a simple tap of the rifle butt. This could lead to bad things happening, but would certainly reduce the velocity of the ball significantly. I don't think it was a technique that was used regularly in the British Army, and certainly was rarely if ever used with a dirty barrel. Black powder fouling is pretty massive, and after you've fired 20 rounds also even if you're ramming, it's difficult to get the bullet to seat and eventually it becomes too hard - barrel then needs cleaning before you resume firing. I know this because I have shot black powder firearms a fair bit, and came across the problem myself.
Yup agreed. Our aim was to show that you don't need to cut corners like Sharpe does in order to achieve the same effect. We didn't have fouling issues while shooting this, but then we used two muskets.
Brilliant video very enjoyable and I would urge anyone who hasn’t read the Richard shop books is give them a try. They are brilliant sharp always argues you should be over to 53 shots a minute but to do it properly you need to be over to do four, hence why he was trying to show up Simson who he didn’t like because he was a flogger. From what I hear in the British army we had the muskets which were a standard weapon then we had the green jacket to use the rifles. Napoleon didn’t like rifles because he thought they were waste of time because they took too long to load and fire. 11:06
In the Shape books, Richard tells the story of going out and practicing for hours as a raw recruit, after his first experience in battle show him how bad he was. In the “Yankee Pasha” book and movie a big deal is made of firing a rifle two times a minute in a real fire fight, which was considered impossible on the Barbary Coast.
I have a flintlock rifle that I have hunted with in all weathers. It's a little different from the musket you are talking about in that it is rifled and that loading is much slower. You are lucky in a hunting situation to get off one round a minute. There are speedloaders which, like paper cartridges, help speed up the process but still, you basically come into your hunt with one shot and one shot only.
Getting the gun to fire is also a challenge. The whole flint striking metal thing seems incredibly primitive when you think about it. I have experienced the flint getting dull to where it won't fire. What you need, in a hunting situation, or a combat situation, it a presteen sharp flint. I also had little nails in my bag which had little notches filed into the nail. I would hook a notch into the edge of the flint and tap the nail with a rock or whatever. That would chip a piece from the flint and extend the life of the flint. I would save that sort of thing for the range. I always started a hunt with a fresh flint.
Moisture is also an enemy of flintlocks. I have hunted in wet weather. The thing I did was keep a small wad of toilet paper in the pan to soak up moisture as it entered that area. When I felt a shot was close, I would throw away the toilet paper and prime the pan. If that moment passed without a shot, I would wipe away the powder from the pan and put a new piece of toilet paper in the pan.
Flintlocks are a challenge all of their own and hunting with those challenges was a pretty cool experience. You are thinking about how people hunted or fought 250 years ago.
Love the detailed commentary here. Thanks for sharing.
am curious, is he also shooting ball as well or just blanks, i have done 4 live rounds a minute tap loading with my 1766 Charliville during a compitition stake shoot.
Incredibly unsafe and foolish as it can cause a burst barrel. As a qualified NRA Range Officer I would not allow it.
As you can see the musket recoiling, the rounds fired were live
Hi there, producer here - I can confirm that these were blank rounds. For one thing this was shot in the UK where the laws on ammunition and gun control are very strict. This was not shot at a range where live ammunition might have been feasible. As others have said, there are major dangers associated with using live ammunition in reproduction muskets - they generally aren’t treated to withstand the increased pressures. And finally there is absolutely no way I’d expose my team to the associated risks of live firing. You’re right, there is a small recoil, but that’s just the reality of using black powder. The recoil would be much worse with live ammunition. Hope that helps. 👍
@@thenapoleonicwars I've used our club repro 'Bess with round ball and the recoil wasn't actually that bad - more of a surge than a shoulder breaker. I couldn't swear to using an historical full charge, but with my own .50 BP carbine the main effect of doubling the charge was an increase in the number of complaints about air pollution... 😁
Nice video, also brilliant soldiering from both of ya 😂 Subbed!
Cheer bud - appreciate the positivity! 👍
I read once that the soldier would close their eyes because of the 'explosion' in the pan. We moderns don't think about that. Does this flash actually present a problem? Did they close their eyes or keep them open?
If you watch one of the 'over the shoulder' slow-mos really carefully, you'll see Liam squeeze his eye shut for exactly this reason. He has also come away with powder burns from re-enactment shows, so it is definitely a thing. Great question. 👍
It really shouldn’t be a big subject . Ignition from pan fails to reach the charge in the barrel ! Flash typically result of touch hole blockage through previous fire action / powder slurry through damp or other non discharge .Re-prime after cleaning pan and touch hole , cleaning frizzen in process ( whilst observing safety protocols )
Yeah, funnily enough we tried all of that. We think it was a flint problem.
I just found your channel so I subscribed I would like to thank Liam for his service and you for the channel. Keep up the good work 👍🐺🏴🏴
Cheers Wolf. Appreciate the positivity.
It was 3 shots a minute. Sharpe fired four, but he started with a loaded musket. Accuracy was not a concern as the weapons weren't accurate in the best of circumstances. Also, they were not expected to keep it up indefinitely. After a few rounds, they would fix bayonets and charge.
What happens if you get a misfire, and in the heat of battle you load another round on top of the one already loaded? Would they both go off simultaneously, would the barrel explode or what?
Great question. Firstly, you'd know it had misfired, so you would be unlikely to make this mistake, and there was a tool that you could attach to the end of the ramrod to effectively drill the bullet out, and then you could tip the powder out. If you did double load, a lot would depend on why you misfired. If the flint had gone, then it would be unlikely to fire on a second attempt, but if it was a lack of priming, then a double charge had the power to potentially explode the barrel.
As an American, with my smoothbore TVM fowler I can do it with no wadding and premade paper cartridges, if I start with a loaded gun. But with my TVM rifle with patch and ball loader from horn and measure I can only get 2 .
I seem to remember they didn't use the ram rod always but tapped the stock on the hard ground.
You have to consider the men during this time period would have been much more experienced with these weapons, doing this in much harsher conditions, amped up on adrenaline, with disorienting and deafening sounds going off around them (not to mention the more horrific sounds of people screaming in pain). I can imagine some very well trained soldiers doing these movements with extreme efficiency and speed... not to cut down on the guy in the video or anything, especially since he was successful, but he's from a different time.
Completely fair point. Liam himself acknowledges he does this for fun, and we actually did a follow up interview just for patrons, where we acknowledge this point. You can't replicate a battle of the period, no matter how hard reenactors try.
It seems like the shoulder arms step is superfluous in an actual combat situation. Seems like it takes at least a couple of seconds during each firing sequence that could be eliminated.
Giga Chad move if you can load and fire 4 in a minute. I absolutely could not, I don’t know if that’s possible but worth a go!
Great video. I did reenactment for the US National Park Service for a few years, firing muskets almost every day, and I have been able to fire 4 shots in a minute, but only a few times and everything has to go perfectly as you showed. 3 shots per minute is a more realistic rate of fire, and, of course, this is not in an actual battle. If it's a fire at will situation, your well trained and battle experienced troops could probably maintain 3 shots per minute, but in a fire on command situation you are at the mercy of your slowest individual. Again, excellent video.
Cheers, Allen! Really appreciate the kind words and you sharing your experiences.
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I would suppose that a trained soldier would have practiced the loading and firing operations hundred ----perhaps thousands of times. You note that your daily practice made a significant difference. Such practice is just what armies do to become competent.
I've read accounts of how Americans in the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 often suffered from a shortage of flint, and the flint they had only lasted 20 - 40 shots.
In the film the Patriot, which is the American Revolution, I noticed that when British Soldiers firing their muskets would turn their heads and look away when firing. I noticed it in the Battle of Camden scene. Is that a normal thing?
Looking away not so much (you need to keep the gun pointing at the target), but if you watch Liam carefully in the slow motion shots (especially the super-slow-mo over the shoulder shot), you can see him squeeze his right eye shut because of the risk of powder burns.