NEW Moza FFB Joystick ! ┃ This is Huge For Simulator Fans !
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Moza just announced a new FFB joystick AB9 Base, along with a throttle and rudder pedals. - Affiliate link ➤ mozaracing.com...
This is huge news for FFB fans and those who love realistic simulator games. I discuss some of the key points and share my first thoughts about this new joystick.
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![New Force Feedback Joystick Base by MOZA Flight [First Look]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SsZKy_dkMl4/mqdefault.jpg)
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Not the only FFB stick base announced, there were two others as well, plus another FFB yoke and rudder pedals. FFB is finally kicking off.
Seriously. FINALLY! Since having had the Microsoft sidewinder FF pro back in the days I always wondered what happened. We so freaking back boiiiissss.
What are the other ones that were announced?
As a Fanatec fanboy, I know for certain if it was them who did it, there is no way they would have used the Thrustmaster adaptor QR for the joysticks. It would have been a special Fanatec adaptor only compatible with future Fanatec joysticks to be released 😂
Good job, Moza, for not only adding an FFB base for flight simulators. Making compatible with already existing joysticks is both great for customers and their sales.
You know we all want to know the BRRRRRRTTTTT factor from this, how well can it BRRRRTTTTT.
Yeah! ...and also, I was always annoyed how even MG fire would throw the stick around, when eg. Bf-109 pilots said that even the cannon wasn't too noticeable, let alone throwing the plane around.
If I remember correctly the Sidewinder 2 FFB stick was like 2 Nm torque and this is 9 Nm. I think it will probably be around $699 - $799 for the base and $999 with the base and stick. The reason you have not seen FFB sticks, because the company that made the FFB for the Sidewinder put a patent on it that lasted 20 years.
Yah sidewinder is around 2 NM but is a bit coggy and not that dynamic , Brunner is around 4-5 or so but overheats on load , super smooth though and good dynamics.
Is the moza is legit holding of 9Nm then that's a really good amount especially for people that want to run longer sticks on it.
@@GamerMuscleVideos What I was looking at, because I use a 20cm extension.
The goggles 😂😂
I just got another pair comming today with TINTED GLASS can't wait !
Early morning ffb joystick hype
Moza's website says 9 Nm torque. This would mean in regard to the pivot point (motor shaft if "direct drive" without gears), that you get 9 Newtons of force in 1 meter distance to the pivot point. Or 18 N with 0,5 m lever or 36 N with 25 cm. This would mean, it could hold 3,6 kg (1 N roughly equals 0,1 kg) in 25 cm distance to the pivot point, if the base was laying on it's side.
Man, makes me wonder though - a steering wheel can only rotate, but a joystick could pivot into your hand/wrist? IDK shit about this stuff or how it will work, but a 1h joystick that can move in many directions versus a 2h wheel that can only move on one axis is... interesting
@@hansolo631 What do mean with "1h" and "2h"?
@@driflysh4597 1 hand, 2 hand.
@@Traumglanz thanks. Yeah, one hand is enough for many aircraft but not for all. Old fighter jets and piston engine fighters demand two hands on the stick for some moves. I myself have flown the helicopter Hughes 300 once and we had side wind. My arm was not used to this constant pulling and got strained quickly. Many general aviation aircraft up to Boeing airliners offer a yoke to be operated by two hands. Of course, there are some pretty demanding cars out there as well but it's anyway the nature of a wheel, that you can't really operate it with one hand...
@@driflysh4597 figure it out champ. think real hard
I hope you get one from moza for a test this is quite an exciting development especially if its not too expensive
. I have a sidewinder that fell off noah's arch and it still works !
You too flying a original MSFF? :D Mine is of the first models, which needed adapt-ffb-joy to get into USB era :D
Moza need to get some new wheels on the market and simhub integration
Love that they have done this. Proof that you don’t need to pay 2000 for a ffb base.
I see even more potential for the base: Realistic gear grinding and stuck gears by FFB-H-Shifter 🤯😂
The force would be quite enough to fight back! And a totally reasonable price for a gear lever xD
@@jussiollila7714 It actually is! Compared to a Pro-Sim H-Pattern Shifter for 2.129,95 EUR 😆
Loving the goggles. That alone had me hooked
Timing is very good. Moza could clean up here. Price is critical.
I also have a Falcon and a Sidewinder 2. Microsoft reliability is crazy, their hardware is rock solid. On the Sidewinder you have to put a tape on the IR to keep it working 😂
I just opened the grip on my MS SW FFB2 and removed the LED. 😊
The way they positioning it like premium product with aviation grade aluminium etc, the lack of competition on a mass market, i don't see that the price for base alone would get bellow $700-800, mb $999 on a bundle base+grip and that still be a pretty good deal coz any other options more expensive and also you will need to wait half a year if not more if we talking about ffbeast or rhino.
Check out the quality of the R5 and R9 wheel bases. 300 dollar wheel base, and still the same "Aviation Grade Aluminum Alloy" for the housing. Moza is simply building rock solid stuff. Their software might be not always perfect, but certainly they do not compromise much on materials even on their cheaper products.
I saw the thumbnail and instantly thougt "software-compatibility out of the box and price - that's what decides the future of this product". I totally agree with you - this might change the flight-FFB-landscape! If this is affordable, people will buy this and play only the games, that put nice FFB into it. So maybe all studios (DCS, MSFS, IL-2, P2D...) will eventually agree on something. DCS and MSFS would be enough for me right now. 😆Thanks for the video!
I found on the Moza website: "Our system seamlessly integrates with popular flight simulation titles like MSFS2020, X-plane 12/11/10, DCS, IL-2, War Thunder, and more, ensuring an immersive experience across a wide range of platforms." and "The MOZA AB9 active force feedback base supports third-party flight sticks with compatible mounts, demonstrating MOZA's commitment to an open and inclusive ecosystem." 🥳
I'm interested to see the compatibility of the base. It says it will be an open ecosystem for third party sticks to attach. I hope that goes further than just thrustmaster. Recently got a VKB Gladiator so would love to be able to attach it to this base.
Finally we are out of that patent swamp. For those who are more adventurous, there is the DIY route, like Laserwing miniffb
Thanks for heads-up! FFBeast is another I ran into just now, different price class & level.
The R9 9NM racing wheel base is like 400€ before tax. So I would assume that the joystick base will be a bit more expensive than that.
Oh and the Sidewinder FF 2 came out in 98.
Logitech had a full flight system, pedals, hotas, force feedback stick in 2009.
I still use my sidewinder and love it.......have winwing setup too but this looks amazing especially if I can use an extension rod to fly my ww2 era planes accurately.
Great, i still have sidewinder and its still work 20+ years, but the point that most impress me is that sidewinder have laser that activate the FFB when you hold the handle, what a technology for that years
That is cool but someone needs to produce an affordable FFB load cell brake pedal too. It's crazy that I get more feeling for what the brakes are doing with the FFB analog brake lever on Dual Sense Edge controller in GT7 than I do with Fanatec CSL Elite V2 pedals (which are great, but there's no FFB in the brake pedal).
You can Feel braking through the wheel in AC , and a DD wheel is going to be way better for brake feel than any pedal solution / I'm a real car you feel braking through body ( when it comes to forces that gives a range of g load to know slip amount )
So solution for braking feels is not with pedals but it's actually in aims doing better wheel FFB
You can get a vibration motor on it
Overall I agree with what @GamerMuscleVideos said. In my opinion vibration motor is not enough for ABS, it's way too slow to react; a tactile shaker might do it. However I was quite surprised by reviews of Simucube ActivePedal, and have to agree that at some skill/professionality level the tunability etc make sense - but that is way off from what my driving skill requires!
About bloody time, I canny wait
Hopefully Logitech start making the G940 again so I can get some modern drivers. I do also wonder if we'd ever get a direct drive wheel with push in and out for yoke support
Here i am waiting for my motion kit to arrive next week and now this.The immersion is gonna be so good. Only thing now is to wait and see what is better, Moza ab9 or Winwing cyber taurus. Hope Virpil joins the party also.👉👈
You wait literally decades for an FFB stick (not counting the commercial options) and two come along at once, WinWing have revealed the Cyber Taurus
Beside winwing will be way more expensive
Last night, I got some virpil sticks and felt good about my purchase. But after watching gamer muscle's video this morning, I feel like🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 Regardless of my poor timing purchase, this is a great video. And im really excited to see if it works out.
So, the reason we haven’t had good force feedback, especially at a reasonable price in the flight Sim world has a lot to do with patterns. The Microsoft patent got sold and the company that bought it quite a bit to license it which is why the bases partially cost as much as they do and is a result it was really only the professional side that was using those style of bases. They were prohibitively expensive Due to licensing. However, that patent has expired and licensing is no longer required. That said it’s still somewhat expensive to make the bases especially quality motors are going to be housed and not actively cooled so I really don’t think we’re going to see that base cheaper than $500. Which if it’s good you’ll see quite a few members of the DCS community I think getting it especially the people that fly the helicopters and Cold War era aircraft that aren’t FBW.
Also , Flight sim fans being super stupid and saying " FFB IS UNREALISTIC" because they can't understand that feeling what a plane is doing through a joystick is more realistic than feeling nothing at all and then just having a stiff / basic joystick. Same thing happens in simracing where people want " REALISTIC FFB" which often with many real cars = 0 dyanmics and just a largely dead wheel which in a real car is not an issue as you can feel the car through your bottom so can ballence from that , but in a sim you need dynamic range and slip info to know where the wheels are at.
Also people snubbed the novint falcon even though you could feel 3D texture with it which was amazing , also the haptic motors on VR controllers are super weak ... also most people just ignore how awsome the haptics on the ps5 controller are lots of developers hardly use it even though it feels amazing when done properly.
Essentially most people are brain dead when it comes to haptics and ffb lol.
Glider too
You forgot X-Plane 12, IL-2 Great Battles and Cliffs of Dover and Falcon BMS 4.37 in the main Sims.
If it wants to be successful those need to be supported as well.
With extended support for other sims and games being very much appreciated.
X-Plane. DCS, MSFS, IL-2 and Warthunder are listed as supported games on the Moza website.
Want one now ⚠️
It would be cool, if they would manage to create motor and pedals, that could be used for both cars and airplanes, so these devices wouldn't that niche.
Completely agree with you on FFB sticks. I had the (enormous!) Logitech Wingman Force back in the day. Me & my dad both went to a PC hardware store for different things, and he saw what I was buying at the checkout and couldn't believe a joystick could cost that much. :D I played a lot of Descent/Freespace on it and loved it. I guess joypads took over and the basic rumble was "good enough" for most people (especially vs the cost), and sofas vs desks etc., but it was such a cool thing that just vanished.
I really hope Moza can be successful here, and price it well enough to make it more mainstream, and that snowballs into more games and more hardware. I looked into FFB sticks a couple of years ago and was happy to learn there actually are really good ones now, but then sad to find out there's almost no software support, unless you play very specific games. Which is great if you do, but a lot of money to spend for someone who wants to play a range of stuff, or space sims, etc.
It's also great to see sim-racing companies make other things, because anyone successful in that business has had to make really solid hardware to stay competitive. I hope they can slowly branch out, without going crazy and screwing everything up, of course. But it's ridiculous how bad every other computing peripheral is compared to sim racing hardware (and a tiny number of flight sim things, but they seem very niche so far). Almost all keyboards, mice and joypads are cheap, plastic crap that wears within months and falls apart within years, and feels horrible to touch. You'd think such mass-market products would have some higher end options but it's steeply diminishing returns vs cost. Then you get in a sim racing rig and it's like touching a real car. Bits of it ARE from a real car.
I would like to know more about basic specifications of the new base (any that is introduced): the size, the weight and the throw distance if possible. that way we could actually begin to compare it to other options out there, including the Rhino, the FFBeast, or the over-expensive Swiss one that I do not name now. :)
Seems to be around the same amount of power as the Rhino, but where the Rhino shines is the software.
@@khaledassaf6356 agreed, but the software will likely be 'creatively borrowed from' by these slightly bigger enterprises.
@@Spelljammer1 That remains to be seen, I guess. Buttkicker's software is still nowhere near as good as Andre's Simshaker, and I assume things will be similar here. Will take a while to reach that point, if ever. Regardless, more FFB, especially mass produced solutions, are net positive for us, especially if it leads to competition and lower prices.
I think Walmis' software is open source anyway, but don't quote me on that.
I still have my sidewinder 2 ffb joystick xD. Hope moza could sell this base for less than 400
me too, still works :)
That thing was great. Mine died though. Bought it in the early 2000s I think.
really miss mine but the grip reverted to it's natural form - some sort of horrible goopy tar that made using it really unpleasant.
I love the renaissance of force feedback sticks happening! I currently have the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and VKB pedals, with the custom Warthog HOTAS mounts for my old Obutto Ozone cockpit. I would really consider getting the Moza base. Besides upgrading to force feedback, I hate the Thrustmaster software. I'm hoping I can retire my Obutto cockpit for flight sims only, and then sim racing only on my new 4080 rig.
Also, I don't see how VKB, Vipril, or WinWing are going to compete with these new force feedback bases.. At least they can sell there sticks to use on these!
This Moza FFB Base should be amazing for Cold War Jets, Helos and Warbirds! I just hope that my WinWing Stick buttons will be compatible as the WinWing HOTAS has over 32 buttons each. Which has been a problem for certain Sims.
Great summary of the Force Feedback scene, thanks! Hard to believe it's been 25 years since I was flying with the Microsoft Sidewinder.
This is amazing, wonder what the price will be ;)
"...been inspired by" 🤣🤣🤣
TBH the motor-and-one-belt configuration is pretty logical solution, and there are about 1 or 2 ways to form the box economically :D That said, I have no reason to doubt those scenarios.
Fingers crossed. Well want one of these badboys, if it's cheap enough to get WAF status.
Oh man! This is exciting! I liked your little "IL-2" popup haha, i really hope that game is supported
The first to market! I’m getting one if it’s price right!
I read years ago that the holder of the haptic feedback patent set the price for using their patent so high, that practically nobody was willing to use it - apparently they got the patent for really cheap and had no incentive to market more aggressively.
Why suddenly now somebody has purchased patent usage rights, I have no idea.
I wonder if Sim Hub might branch into FFB stick support (assuming it doesn't already; never looked for it). Doing the job of converting game telemetry into forces would be right up its street. Of course, it may depend on what the devs are interested in or have time/money to do.
Love Moza! I am glad to be a early adopter for their products and they are pretty much a company that I can say I am a fan of. Wishing them all the best for their flight sim gear. I am not a flight sim guy but with Moza's quality and experience, I might give it a try!
my VKB gunfighter ultimate was supposed to be buy once cry once lol not even 15 hours in and this gets announced 😭
With all the incoming hardware, I hope DCS gets it's shizzle together. It feels like a platform just shy of being broken continually... Error 403, error 503, module disabled-not authorized, Razbam....
I'll also expect a lot of people will have their Warthog joysticks shearing in half at the connector seeing as they are made of TM's special, secret cheese recipe.
How long are you going to take to discover Condor2?
Would be awesome if the joystick could also become an 8spd great shifter for your racing sim similar to the TH8RS.
Yah this has been an idea for 20+ years I'm sure I sore one version this as a home brew project.
I was thinking about making a video on this due to Moza also having the wheels and software for everything putting them in a unique position to actually do it.
Looks like a beast. However I’m guessing £800 plus and no one will buy it unfortunately 😢
I think you might be surprised 😊
Yes Mechwarrior with FFB joystick coming back !
Good vid. Can't wait.
I love jumping into flight sim in vr, it almost takes my breath away at times but that disconnect from the aircraft really spoils it. It’s like a racing wheel with no feedback, the immersion is lost and it’s all about immersion for me.
If Moza can release this at around £300 everyone would snap one up. Then they’ve got their foot into the market and they’ll be onto a winner! Easy.
I’d be playing flight games a lot more if I had a ffb stick!
I'd imagine it will be 499-599 minimum
@@GamerMuscleVideosyeah, so do I but if we all comment saying a nice low price they may take the feedback and adjust their prices (am I living in a dream world? 😂)
The most Joyful of Sticks.
It's crazy to think Microsoft had a FFB Joystick like 2 decades ago, and just forgot about it.
@@ChimeraLV almost 3 decades ago 😅
I hope this works with my Win Wing Orion 2 stick.
The base accepts Thrustmaster & Virpil sticks, not sure about WinWing.
@@automaton450 There are adapters to put WinWing on Virpil, which I assume would work here as well.
I hope it works with Descent 1 & 2, Overload and Forsaken Remaster :D.
I pretty much agree with your opinion.
If it is as expensive the brunner this is just another overpriced product for a VERY small number of people in a very niche market.
I'll wait till there is predecessor for the Logitech G940 which I still have. It was the most amazing FFB flight sim HOTAS+pedal bundle for around 300€
Glad it’s finally here..still not cheap Base and Stick $1100+ cnd $550usd for the base and $170usd for the stick.
Not sure what took so long, I mean why not Thrustmaster, Fanatec or Logitech? They could’ve, should’ve had something years ago. It didn’t need to be fancy…anything but rubber bands
FFB gizmos collection video when
Super exciting! Thanks for sharing. Yeah, those fkn patent a-holes.. 20 years practically ruined..
Novit falcon was the biscuits!
Really excited for this. Especially after suffering through years of the stupid spring joysticks and their TERRIBLE on-center detents.
... And a destructive announcement for wallets.
If it's truly modular and you can configure it for a lefty I'll be very pleased
Yah you will be able to use left hand sticks on it for sure
And, Flight Simulator 2024 look amazing!
Rudder pedal are a copy of the virpil pedals.Brunner have the CSL 2 now 6nm.
It’s gonna be 500 minimum. Too many people that are willing to be scammed for them to charge a penny less.
Can a VKB grip be used on a TM mount? I have a VKB Gunfighter III and, as much as it can feel a bit toy like, I love how many hats and button options it has plus the lever is an axis not a button meaning it can be used for wheelbrakes on aircraft like the Spitfire or Soviet warbirds.
How would the driver software work? Most modern flight/space Sims don't support force feedback. Does this mean i can get forcefeedback on my old logitech hotas and sidewinder?
@11:00 Err, it literally says on the graphic you're displaying 9 N m. So yeah, 9 newton meters. Also their website says 9Nm Dual Servo Motors.
Yes but how that's measured and if that's peak or holding and how that all translates to feeling when in use is another thing.
Is the time the FFB effect works limited? The Brunner FFB can only do 30 seconds, the rhino can do unlimited.
No , also brunner can do FFB constantly you might just be talking about peak output , generally you don't run FFB devices at constant peek output
@@GamerMuscleVideos Ok, that was just what someone said to me. I dont own a ffb yet, but I want one. How is this one doing during regular flight regarding heat?? And during a longer dogfight?
You likely misinterpreted it. 9NM CONSTANT, but 12NM PEAK. Have a good day!
GOD FINALLY PLZ BE affordable
@gamermusclevideos btw Winwing and Virgil make better gear than thrustmaster in the flight sim category. I have a little of all of these and personally wouldn’t buy ™ again. Now if I was sponsored that’s another story.
I don't have the money so I guess I should fly planes with fly-by-wire
where do i get mounting plates from?
Take my money
At the moment for throttles the vkb stecs is by far the best value.... I am not sure how moza will compete with that. Warthog has not been relevant for a bit now. There have been better options for a few years.
@@bouvardc.2334 i think most of us will only be buying the FFB base
@@potatopilot1699 I am talking about throttles not sticks.
Don't play with your joystick too much
U
@@2Old4Forza No U
It looks similar? What because it's a box?
Prity much identically sized box probably using same sort of motors and motor arrangement , shaft arrangement.
Compared to some industrial joysticks that are much more compact and some of the classic gaming ffb joysticks like the sidewinder or the old Logitech ffb sticks which use smaller motors and lower valtages.
🕹️😎👍
Lol the Warthog from Thrustmaster is trash. Everyone who has tried the competitors knows that.
I use the warthog stick on the Brunner , the throttle is good though but yah the warthog joystick base is terrible , ironically flight sim fans said is was really good for years when it obvously isn't as it has a ton of inconsistency to it's movement. I bought one back in 2012 or so
upvote for "gubbins"
Go to bed ! 🛏️
😉 right back atcha 0:04
This literally makes like zero sense to me. (Note, I've never piloted a damn thing IRL) As I understand it, every plane with a joystick vs a yoke is absolutely fly-by-wire and not mechanical while yoke can be either or. In my head that would mean that a FFB joystick isn't realistic in the slightest...
Once again though, I'm a sim racer and watch for that, but I just saw FFB joystick instead of a FFB yoke and thought 'Huh?!' So I commented. At the least it'll feed the machine... Now where is my tea?!
Lots of small plans the stick is effectively same as a yoke , helicopters as well also operate differently.
Even with fly by wire different sticks have different feelings and resistance deoendong on plane as well as specific stick shaker modes and other haptics.
Then just as with simulated cars you don't have to do things litrally , you can give the player information through a joystick or wheel to tell them what is going on with the physics.
Ironically given that you feel what a plane / car is doing through your body having no info / no ffb through the joystick though would be more litrally realistic when just thinking about the joystick is actually less realistic when thinking of the whole picture and what is relivent when it comes to driving and flying.
Unfortunately this degree of thinking is beyond many SIM fans and as a result ffb with both planes and cars has been rather lacking.
And???
What's it like?
This video is a whole lot of nothing for 12 minutes.
What did you expect, it's not available yet. He'll review this when he can his hands on it
@thijsazerty692 it took him 12 minutes to say that???
I hear you - ignore all this guys video's as they're all click bait, no info BS.
Thanks for the heads up.