Glider pilot flys through wall of rain, twice!! 💦
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Can gliders fly through rain? How much rain? What are the things to think about when flying in rain? We have a look at soaring along ridges and through rain showers or squall lines.
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00:00 Flying through squall line #1
01:58 Dangers of flying through rain
03:22 Decision time
04:48 Flying through squall line #2
06:51 Conclusions 
Наука
What is not mentioned: The vintage gliders built out of wood, often used casein-based glue - which is water soluble. With those, you do not fly in rain...
First guy to figure that out probably a heck of a surprise
I'm guessing the reason for that is not that the glider will immediately fall to pieces but that getting it wet is not good for the glue long term? I say this because I'm pretty sure I've seen K6s and Skylarks (for example) regularly out on the airfield when a heavy rain shower is passing. They don't want that to happen obviously, but in the UK it does!
@@mikeonb4c K6 was not built with Casein glue. Don't know about skylarks. I think Grunau-Baby did use Casein.
@@ronaldgadget Yes I recall hearing that (I had a share in a K6cr years ago) but the point I was trying to question was - having seen wooden gliders being rained on - whether it mattered if wooden gliders (with the kind of glues used to put them together) flew through rain, or whether it was prolonged exposure to damp that was harmful to these types of glues. Although not put together with casein glue, the glue used in K6s does appear not to like damp.
www.gliding.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/04/1430312213_042-07-2004-issue-4.pdf
You also don't outland in paddocks with horses and leave it unattended, because while you are away the horses will try to eat it.
Brings back memories of flying into a rainstorm 30 years ago. No horizon, rain so heavy water was coming into the cockpit, golf ball size hailstones battering the canopy. Luckily I was over the airfield so I was able to make a safe landing. Quite an experience.
In Germany we say „richtig knorke, schöne Aufnahmen und Moderation.“ The Vario Sound „hat sich in mein Hirn gebrannt“ since 27years… keep on, „eine Bereicherung“!
I went into rain just last weekend and 20 mins later I was standing in a field in Austria! Still trying to work out exactly what happened. I'm a pro at finding sink!
Yeah we've all done that I'm sure! Bit different on a ridge day
As the driver of a PIK20, I had shivers running up my back as you entered both of the rain showers.
Former PIK 20B driver (and Nimbus 2C which had basically the same airfoil). I know what you mean.
:)
I once landed a PIK 20E in heavy rain.. The shower was right over the airport. I think I had 150 km/h on final and it settled onto the runway at 130.. No need for airbrakes, the vario needle was trying to bend itself against the negative stop without using any..
You also need to watchout for water in your pitot tube so you can lose speed and vario meter readings, also very often you find much sink or just dead air as you pass through an area where it had rained so regaining altutude can be tough and climbing maximum before is a smart choice!
Another great point! Cheers
@@PureGlide sigh, I replied with a link to a WeGlide flight but RUclips seems to have removed the reply...
Watch out for dark gloomy grey hills that look like dark gloomy grey clouds that look like dark gloomy grey rainy sky !🤪
Hi Tim, good use of the Rain Radar. Also your comment of knowing when to turn back and land is very good advice.
Thanks Norm! 👍
Also a light silicone wax buffed into the perspex helps get the rain off the outside very quick even at low speeds.
Thanks for the ride Tim... fun as always 🙂
Cheers!
No need to clean the aircraft after landing - smart play!
Haha
Great idea to discuss this in this good video. Thanks!
No worries!
So immediately after making a video about the mortality rate of glider pilots, he makes a video where he . . . . deliberately flies into a rain storm.
Well it was squall lines, rather than rain storms, but I get your point! But which is safer: talking about these more risky things or not? Anyone flying on ridges will likely encounter these scenarios at some stage.
Amazing pilot
Thank you!
That was cool! I particularly like your comment - "Visibility is going to get bit shit". LOL
Haha yes :)
In the UK, its quite common for a front to be followed by a secondary trough.
The met guys here say that whatever the weather is on the front, it will be worse at the trough!
In europe, there are rules about being outside the cloud vertically and horizontally. One could argue that this was on the edge where is hard to judge where the cloud starts and stops.......
Hi yeah the rain looks similar to cloud especially on the video, but in real life I could easily see the cloud base above. In NZ we are allowed to fly up to cloud base as long as we are below 3000 feet,or 1000 feet above terrain, and maintain visible contact with the ground, which I had at all times.
@@PureGlide Well I am paragliding, but I keep my self a bit on cowardly side I do not like the idea of playing "Marco-Polo" with friends. The part between ~ 0:50-1:30 looks a bit sketchy :) Not because of rain but visibility. Very nice flight any way.
thank you tim, very cool
Cheers John
Took an ASH-25 through a very, very heavy shower at the end of a competition task out of Husbos, UK. lost 3000ft alt in 10km, rain, hail and lightning. Probably the worst flying experience I've had. Emerged on the far side at 500ft agl, 1 swift (and very small) field later. Lucky (and it was pure luck) that there was no damage or injuries...
Yeah thunderstorm showers are a whole other ball game!
Free bugwash!! 😂
When the rain is really coming down - beware - even though you can see through it - the splattering rain reduces the visibility by about 2/3 of what is reported. I just did a takeoff in Newark, NJ at work at the reported visibility was 2400'(800m?) and when we hit the water the actual visibility reduced to literally one runway centerline stripe ahead. Noted. Rain visibility is not the same as fog or cloud visibility. You might see through it when the rain isnt dousing the windshield or canopy. Light stuff is fine. But again, if its even remotely heavy looking - it could make a film on the canopy that makes it impossible to see. Keep the AHRS up when traversing low visibility.
Finally - big masses of rain are more safe, actually. Little rain showers are worse. They usually have a downdraft in them. Ask me how I've checked this. 😅 So a line of rain is more ok. A circle of rain - stay away! I've been hit in the Airbus and lost a lot of speed and altitude passing through tiny little rain showers. The big ones that look super scary and heavy rain everywhere were fine. The key for those big ones is virga or blown trees ir water on lakes with white caps. Avoid those! Thats a microburst. Do not rely on dust clouds to identify the downdraft. If its raining.... There isn't dust.
Good points! Cheers
@@PureGlide cheers buddy. Just observations I've made over the years in airliners.
Here's a few more. The time of the day matters. If it's early morning isolated showers - they are almost all downdraft. Around 11am~ - there's lift and sink in it. Around 1pm there's almost no sink to be found in the rain. Around 4pm and it's a crap shoot - maybe 50/50 up or down. Hahaha yes I've nerded out since taking up soaring.
Lightning starts when the tops reach freezing level.
Yesterday we saw a doozy thermal wave. Nice big Lenny on top... Just have to figure out how to get to FL500 😂 🤪🤣😂
Man... Florida soaring stinks. It's so hot! I don't know what to do. I literally can't even go up for more than an hour. It's so hot. I don't know how they do it out west in Minden, etc. At least it's dry. But here in Florida: I'd estimate on my last flight the average cockpit temp was 120°F. I drank all the water I could. It just didn't help! So I started spitting the water out and let it soak my shirt. What can I do man? There are a few days each summer with decent chance of reduced overdevelopment and XC is possible. But it's still hot! Matter of fact it's hotter without the storms giving shade.
I've reasoned that I just can't go XC in the summer. Any suggestions?
I'm about ready to hang it up. I've listed the DG for sale. I want to go flying year round here in Florida. So I'm thinking a normal airplane will make me happier, because I can climb above the clouds to get cool.
I hope you're having a wonderful day and I hope you are getting to soar to your heart's content.
Another great video and a clean glider result. Also if squally the wind can change direction so pay attention to the windsock as I've had a 180 degree change.
Yeah great point, cheers
Cool vid of rain on canopy....nice
Thanks!
You forgot to mention the sound of rain on your canopy, it can get quite loud.
It can!
If the field is too wet. You have the benefit that you do not need any wing support any more for taking the airplane apart! Just had it stuck in the ground, and it remained level even without the wings on. That was my first land out of this year. Luckily no damage, but there was plenty of cleaning to do.
Blimey!
Just press the blue button and woof straight through it ahahaha.. I got caught once in my LSA plane where I had 10 miles of vis and then two seconds later I couldn;t see my prop. Autopilot was awesome then but I have been more careful about flying along under black clouds since then, turns out my plane is not incredibly watertight and being rained on was quite confronting inside the plane..
Without an attitude indicator, this seems like an awful lot of faith to place in what you hope the vis will be.
Hi I had an artificial horizon, I activated and mentioned it in the video. Cheers!
Ah, I see it now. It probably deserves a more explicit mention when you say "yes, you can fly through rain" :). I know your videos are not meant to be a substitute for instruction from a CFI, but still, I think an abundance of caution is in order.
Just had this experience and can safely tell you that a ASK21 has the L/D of a nicely rounded brick in the rain.Not fun losing your horizon an knowing that a power plane could come out of nowhere.
Yeah, you really want an attitude indicator for this kind of exploits. I learnt to fly powered plane in a trainer with just a turn indicator, and boy, we were careful not to get into a cloud. Can't imagine doing that in a glider with no gyros at all.
As a paragliding pilot, these clouds/rain make me nervous
What are the risks of getting caught in massive sink in such conditions?
Yeah fair enough!
@@PureGlide is a totally different beast
The main risk of getting dumped in the rain, is not having good visibility for choosing a good outlanding field. We obviously need a bit more space to land than a paraglider, so making a good field selection is critical. And time to choose one. But on the other hand the gliders do glide a long way and faster, so we're not usually in sink for TOO long...
Stop paragliding then, start doing real gliding :-)
WoW ..!!.. anyway , it all worked … good reasoning throughout … something I try to be aware of is that IF the turn back becomes necessary , that may well be a difficult manoeuvre. For a number of reasons . One being that the clear-ish horizon may only be available out to the side ….. hmmmm ….. another is that we as humans tend to think of things being linear . ie . that the intensity of the rain will remain consistent or constant …. maybe . Kindest regards . sTu
I was flying at whenuapai the other day hoping for a coast day, ended up getting the glider ready and then canceling due to some doubts, then found out the 2 showers I was worried about formed a huge line, saved me from landing on the sand haha
haha lucky
Cool vid
Thanks!
While being a risk factor the ridge also did provide you some safety with lifting you up. If thermals would had been the only option to climb you would have experienced massive sink in the rain propably.
Yeah I wish I had made that clearer, that this really is for ridge flying. Cheers!
You must also be able to see the ground. If you can’t see the ground or horizon then you will not know up from down. And this can result in loss of control of the aircraft. And possibly even death.
Yeah great point, cheers
It's kind of trippy to watch in higher playback speed. You can really see the wind drift like that!
Yeah looks awesome eh!
wow some rain ! phew , where was that by the way? nice flying and good video Tim.
Thanks! The first one was just south of the Waterfall, just after joining the ridge. The second was the Paeroa gap, heading South. Fun times!
@@PureGlide thanks Tim .fun times indeed!
Wow.
WTF! Even by watching your flight my blood pressure skyrockets. Well done, Tim! In German we would say: Du bist eine coole Socke/You're a cool sock :)
We call Tim some other names 😅😅
@@bungee7503 Haha, oh tell me all his bad bad names :-D
Didn’t know gliders were IFR. Capable. Breaking rules and then putting it on YT. Smart.
The video doesn't give the true view of what was happening.
If Tim was within 1,000ft of the ground (likely if he was ridge soaring) he has to be clear of cloud and in sight of the ground and have 5km horizontal visibility.
The video looking out the side shows marginal visibility, but if you look down you can see the ground. If you can see the ground 5km ahead you are still legal VFR. So although it can get sketchy, it can be valid VFR flight.
Not to be done casually, but if you're careful it can be done.
Until it turns to bite you, then not so much.
Exactly right, what @philplane3181 said, I was flying well inside the New Zealand cloud flying rules, with visibility of the ground and surrounding area at all times, and under the 3000' required for cloud clearance.
You don't are afraid to be hit by a lightning since Rain means also tunderstroms ?
Luckily these weren't that big! Otherwise I wouldn't go under it :)
I never flew in mountains but that looks far too close to comfort for what I would have been fine with. Mind I didn't rack up too many hours until real life meant I had to give this up. I'm sure you had it all under control.
At 2:05 you mention that the wings stall speed will increase .. this is technically correct, i.e. the wing will stall at a higher speed - but it might be (dangerously) confusing … you are saying that the aircraft will stall a lower speed than it normally would.
yeah you're right, it can be confusing. But as you say, the wing will stall at a higher speed i.e. sooner, so I don't know how else to say it!
This video made me very nervous. All this 'I think I can get through it' stuff was over unlandable terrain and where it would be imperative to be able to see the (varying height of the) ground at all times. And there is a huge dependency on the electronic stuff working and no time to think the problem through if it fails. I t is totally true that you can get caught out with rain showers and have to make a judgement on whether the risk of flying through them is less than the risk of not doing so. But whilst I think the video should stress that it is showing how to handle that situation if/when it should happen and can't be avoided (in order that pilots see it is doable and what to evaluate in making the decision to do it), what the video should not do is allow people to think (or the casual viewing public to believe) is that this is all part of what a glider pilot should normally be getting up to. So, for example, more demonstrating (as suggested in the video) how to park yourself on a safe ridge and wait for the squall line to pass, would be helpful and give reassurance to less confident pilots. I remember some years ago that a UK pilot was killed after making the mistake of trying to fly through a squall that had cut him off from a hilltop airfield. It was hilly country, the route was I suspect over the into wind slope, but he underestimated the density of the rain (and cloud) he would be entering, lost control in IMC and was killed.
Hi great points, thanks for mentioning. If it helps at all I did have good safe landings at all times out to my right. But that might not be obvious from the video. Thanks again
@@PureGlide No worries and I know you did, excellent piloting within your considerable capabilities and local knowledge. I always think the problem comes when a pilot feels compelled to get somewhere. Buying time to think, ease pilot workload and to see how things develop is a strategy always to keep in mind, especially if over unfamiliar territory. You make that point before the second flight through rain. That rain was getting fairly interesting and it was your cool head and reasoning that counted. Not all pilots will necessarily have thought through eventualities as well as you did (you can tell I'm a cautious and inexperienced pilot but rather that than gung ho!)
Nothing wrong with that attitude at all!!
Maybe the rain wasn't that bad for you. I remember rain hitting the canopy and sounding like hail hitting a car windshield.
Yeah that wasn't the most extreme heavy rain possible! I try and avoid flying through that...
great video. i was always told that gliding in rain is called a coffin
Well, like anything it certainly can be dangerous if you're not careful. Being caught out by a thunderstorm for example could be very bad! Squall lines on a ridge day like this are manageable, but still have to be careful. Cheers
no - not that bad...
It really depends on what you're flying and your skills, experience and currency.
Nice video as always, Tim. I thought about the effect of rain on the engine. Would you start it in a shower, or just land out?
Well, not sure, all I can say is Theo landed out once because he didn't want to run the engine in the rain...
@@PureGlide It's not recommended to run the engine in the rain, since the propeller takes quite a beating from the rain drops. And with that turbo engine you have no throttle either, to at least run at only low RPM. It always runs at very high RPM.
greetings from germany 😊
Hello there! Thanks for watching :)
Do modern avionics tell you where the thermals are located? Or is it done “old school,” by reading the weather/terrain conditions?
No fancy gadgets for thermals, gotta look out the window. Luckily there are these 'cloud' things that give away their locations (sometimes...)
Really choppy in the rainy ridge, heavy rain must have been interesting 😅
Yes it was!
I'm wondering about your van. How well did it tow your glider and what size engine did it have, or does it have??
Hi it's a standard Transit 2.3L turbo diesel they sell in NZ. It tows the trailer very well, barely notice it on the back except a bit of extra weight on acceleration. Now just figuring out how to switch to an electric version...
@@PureGlide How's it go towing up a hill on the highway [ 110kph]? There was/is a company in Brisbane that had a lot of aftermarket electric options for established vehicles a few years ago, I'll get you a link if you want one, but you can get a lot of diesel for the cost, nothing recharges much when it's overcast etc and is yours a front wheel drive?
Tows fine, I’m NZ limited to 90kph, don’t go much faster than that with a trailer. All transits are rear wheel drive, sounds interesting, cheers!
Hello Tim, when you land do you towel off the entire glider before putting them in the trailer? Any areas around the joiners or connectors that can get wet? What apps or hone work best while flying? Reading the forums in California the like Samsung screens better than apple- but I am just curious.
Hi yeah we always dry off the gliders before putting them in the hangar or trailer. We don't want water sitting on them, although in theory mine is just car paint, so if a car can handle it, so can the glider...
As for apps, I recommend SeeYou Navigator. A lot of phones overhead, especially in the sun. My iPhone 12 suffers from that, the later ones are meant to handle it better.
Hey what app were you guys using to track one another?
Hi I'm using PureTrack.io, a tracking system I made so we can keep track of all the gliders, no matter which tracking system they are using.. It works worldwide, and is free to use with a paid upgrade available for more features. Feel free to try it out!
@@PureGlide looks awesome I’ll have to try it
Has anyone applied RainX to the wings and canopy to both reduce drag and maintain visibility through the canopy if rain is anticipated or a possibility ?
RainX is designed for glass, so not sure that's a great idea. I stick to Plexus plastic cleaner for the canopy, it beads up the water well too! Annoyingly I couldn't find it just before this flight...
@@PureGlide Ski and snowboard enthusiasts have reported good results when coating their gear, including the bottoms of their boots. We will await your next video with RainX coated wings aloft 🙂.
Can you use the engine in rain?
I never have, just to avoid it getting wet, but I guess no reason not to?
How can you fly through that stuff VFR?!
I made a video about NZ's VFR rules here! ruclips.net/video/Kpwrdyvjy3M/видео.html
Also keep in mind I can see better out the window that it might look on that video. The camera doesn't show sideways very well and is very wide angle which can distort things a lot.
Why don't you have an artificial horizon? You never know when the air might condense and you are enveloped in a cloud.
I do, I turned it on in the video and mentioned it :)
Looks like one bottom right on panel. In UK I think cloud flying in a glider is maybe even legal? I did feel a ton better seeing you had an AH going :) A few risk factors coming together in this kind of situation - height above ground is lower, unsettled air with possible sink or turbulence possible, wind speed / direction changes possible sometimes, visibility can go to garbage, rain can affect glider performance, risks of some disorientation if vis goes to garbage. I worked in a unrelated field affected by all these factors. 90% of the time no issues, but a few times was very glad I was always fully prepped even for what looked like a simple poke through. That said, in my field it was 3-5 of these a day so a lot more frequent. One situation I avoided like the plague was dealing with these at night because we did have some limited night operations.
Question: You recommended to slow down, due to increased drag caused by water on the wings. But if you have altitude to work with, would a bit of higher speed not help to clear the water drops off the wings more quickly?
Good question, that might depend how waxed your wings are! And also are you clear of the rain yet or not. Once clear then yes a high speed run might speed up clearing the water.