How to use Amp Sims with a Real Guitar Speaker Cabinet
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
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🔵 Website: garyhiebner.com
In this video I take a look at how you can use your Amp sims that you have been collection with a real guitar speaker cabinet. For example maybe you want to use some of your Amp Sims in a live performance. Whats the best way to do this? In this video I take a look at the gear you can use to achieve this
0:00 - Introduction
0:28 - Is this an Amp Sim or Real Amp?
0:50 - Is this an Amp Sim or Real Amp? (Isolated Guitar)
2:12 - Gear Needed for Setup
3:24 - Software Setup & Routing
6:16 - Amp Sim & Cab Examples
8:31 - Guitar Full Playthrough
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• Pedal Sized Amps: Mooe...
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Tuning: Drop A#
Amp Sim: ML Soundlab: StevieT, SuperDuper, ML5, ML800
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I think this might be the only video on RUclips on this subject. Slightly hard to find.
It's been years, but finally I setup my "Mesa/Boogie 50/50 power amp" and my "Mesa 2x12". No more apartment life for me.
Awesome. Glad you found the video helpful
Really cool how well that works! Baby Bomb will come in handy with your HXStomp too. Thanks for the shoutout too :)
Haha, yeah can't wait to try that think. Those Baby Bombs are great. Can't belive how loud they are
That demo riff is dope! Very melodic and heavy.
Thanks very much!
Thanks mate, just need the pedal for my neural setup 😁👍
Great Video!!! That is something I always wanted to know.
Thanks. Glad you found the video helpful
Thank you SO much. My and my buddy were like, I wonder if we can connect our laptop/plugin to a speaker cab. And viola! Found your video!
Awesome. Glad the video was helpful
sweet!! gotta try it when i get myself an Audio Interface :D
Go for it!
Excellent! Thank you!
Thanks so much
Just learned about and tried NAM and it is awesome! But still it’s a bit weird to play guitar through a pair of monitor speakers because it doesn’t sound like amps
It cannot sound like an amp, because in principle it is the sound of a mic'ed amp. Some profiles are full rigs. But more likely you have an amp-only profile and actually with the right IR it is quite fun to play even through monitors.
Thanks for the video. Dont u need a reamp before the power amp pedal?
For audio interfaces with a L/R output, should I run it into a 1/4 inch adapter and then run it into my poweramp?
Can you use like a mesa 2:90 or different tube power amps?
Thanks for the video, its very nice!
I am trying to do this myself, one of my concerns is how high should the output volume be from the computer, should it be maxed out ?
leaving a commment so ill be notified if u ever get an answer
It depends on your poweramp! Some Master knobs on amps adjust the volume. But many amps have a poweramp that is always on full volume. So, you can actually blast your ears if you are not cautious or accidentally hover and click accidentally with your mouse to full volume of your computer!
what cable should i use? instrument cable or speaker cable for audio interface output and poweramp output?
I just used an instrument cable. I'm sure its not the most correct way. But it worked.
Would a scarlett solo work for this? it has a L and R line output in the back
Yes, it will work.
Thank you. I’m just starting. Where is the Mac in that chain?
The Amp Sims are on the Mac. The Mac goes out to the audio device. And the audio is sent out the outputs on the audio device into the power amp pedal connected to the speaker cab. If you want to place any pedals before the amp sim then you connected your guitar to the pedals. And then from the pedals into the input of your audio device.
so say you have a real amp, but you want to use the amp sims through it just to have different sounds available... would I just go guitar > interface >effects loop send > amp speaker output > speaker cabinet?
Yeah, that's correct. So bypassing the preamp stage of your amp.
Great video, all that I am concered about is the cable coming out of audio interface into the poweramp. I guess that you should use a TRS cable, that carries a balanced line level signal (that it supposed to go to you monitors), but the power amp si expecting to recieve a simple TS instrument cable that carries an unbalanced instrument level signal. Wouldn't that cause any problems? Or it doesn't matter which cable you use?
The TS cable didn't seem to be a problem at all. Seemed to work fine with no deteriorating of the audio signal.
@@GaryHiebner I would be more concerned about the power amp itself, that is recieving stronger signal that it should, than the audio quality. I guess the solid state Baby Bomb should be ok, but I probably wouldn't risk damaging some other tube poweramp (for example going from audio interface into a fx return on a tube amp)
@@adamulc Usually you can switch an audio-interface to unbalanced since there are many monitors which don't support balanced operation. The Return of an amp usually works well with preamps. Preamps send out a line level signal. My JetCity 22H's FX loop runs at line level. Other amps might run at instrument level! Yes, then this could be a problem, true. Depends on the amp, I would say.
Wow beautifully done! Would you say playing through the speaker gives it a bigger sound than just using amp sims in your daw?
The difference is hard to describe and sometimes hard to hear. Modern ampsims like neural and tonehub are really really good. Just the whole ir cabinet simulator thing isn't quite 100 percent there. The way I can describe it best is simulated cabinets sound like artificially "clean" and can kind of stick out in a mix Like photo shopping a person into a photograph that was taken in different lighting and then retouching them to make their lighting look more natural within that picture vs that person actually being there for real. Most people wouldn't really be able to notice the difference but a well recorded cab seamlessly blends into the mix and creates a nice sense of space with minimal work and an ir usually requires some mixing wizard trickery to accomplish the same task. Ampsims are really good. Its the cabinet section where real speakers stand apart vs irs
@@corym8374 Awesome man... thanks for your thoughts.
Hypothetically, could I run a cable on the headphones jack from my laptop into the auxiliary input on my amp designed for music playback through the speaker, and ALSO use the guitar's input from an actual guitar.
The amp is a Laney LX15, and the interface is a Guitarport.
I understand that latency COULD be an issue.
I DO THIS! The latency isn't the biggest issue, the high and low frequencies sound less prominent and the tone sounds muddy compared to what i hear when i plug the heaphones in for example
Hi, it's a good set up but these power amp pedals like the Mooer are 30watt transistor (like a home transistor amp). Maybe I'm missing something but it seams weak for gigging with a full band (and real tube amps). Does the size of the cab changes something in the volume ?
Size of cab will definitely have a big bearing on the sound. I just used a small 1 x 12 cab
@@GaryHiebner Is it enough loud on a 2x12 without being miced up when playing heavy music in a full band ?
Yeah with the Baby Bomb it will be way loud enough. I only had it dialed in on the volume at about 8 'o clock. That 30w Mooer is super loud. You could definitely crank that up quite a bit to use in a full band mix
I'd like to know if the amp sim would work with a combo amplifier.
If you can bypass the preamp stage on your combo amp and only use the power amp stage, then yes you can.
Would this work with a BOSS TM-7 guitar monitor since it has an onboard amp sim ?
I'm not too sure. If you can bypass any amp or preamps and just use the cab simulation then am sure it can work
do I need a reamp box before the power amp? to get the signal from balanced to unbalanced ??
No, I didn't need a Reamp box. Worked fine going straight out my interface into the power amp
Awesome.....nice job, Thanks !
Could I use a powered pa head on top of my guitar amp cab or do I need a power amp ? Also lets say I wanted to run to font of house aka to a mixer then to pa speakers id assume this would work but, with the sim cab's on ? Any help with this would be amazing so thanks!
A PA-Amp (whats inside your powered mixer-head) won't work with a guitar cab. There is a reason why guitar amps exists. ;)
If you want to go upfront you have to create two tracks in your DAW - both set to the same input but different outputs. One for the guitar power amp and cab combo without an IR and the other that goes into the mixer with a loaded IR. You also need to route your monitors to the seperate outputs.
@@SixStringViolence Sounds great thanks! Yeah I have this old Peavey pa head that is like 30 years old or something like that no idea how old it is. It does not even have XLR inputs there all 1/4 and its 130 watts vary close to that 120watts a lot of guitar amps have. On the front there is a "Graphic Input" So it seems to by pass everything on the mixer but, the 7 band EQ. The name of the Mixer is XR-500. Kind of cool there is a real spring reverb tank inside of it. It sounds ok when I play out of it in my room with the IR off but, think ima try to get that pedal or what not that you have as that would be the way to go. You know more about this then I do. I just did not know if the head would be a good power source or not.
Wait a minute. I'm a bit confused with the instruction at 3:48. So are you saying that the signal chain is: guitar>audio interface input>interface output to power amp input>power amp output back INTO audio interface>second audio interface output to speaker cab? Just want to be clear so I don't blow my speakers.
It goes guitar>audio interface input>interface output to power amp>power amp output to guitar speaker cabinet input. Then mic up the guitar speaker cabinet. And then this mic to the audio interface input so that you can record the signal coming out of the speaker.
Hey, Gary. Thanks for the video. A few years ago, I laughed at amp sims and swore I'd never use them. Then I ate my words after my friend turned me on to Guitar Rig. It's all I use in my recordings now. I'd like to hook up a live setup like this. My only outputs on my PreSonus are IL and 2R. Don't I need to run those into 2 separate inputs in the power amp? (Really want my old power amp, the Peavey 120/120 with 6L6 tubes)!
Yeah amp sims have got so good that you can use them with a real rig
@@GaryHiebner for real. So, do I need to run my 2 outputs from my audio interface into 2 separate inputs on the power amp? I guess I'm not clear on that part.
Is the baby bomb loud enough thru a 4x12 cab to play over a heavy hitting drummer? I’ve got to shrink the size of my rig now because our practice spot is way farther away now…and if I can use these amp sims with their effects and such I won’t have to lug all my gear to practice. I’ll buy WHATEVER I need to still get my sound there without lugging my rig and the 1600 watt pa just to play over our drummer.
That Baby Bomb is super loud. I had it like barely 1 and it was loud in a small room. You could definitely crank the gain up to be lpud enough over a hard hitting drummer.
@@GaryHiebner thanks for the reply…just sent in my order!!!
This would work with any sim, like pod farm2.5 ?
Yes, just bypass the speaker section on the amp sim
For those asking if it works in live situation : I just come back from a technical rehearsal day with my band and was plugged like this, I'll try to be precise.
The other guitarist plays with a Orange Th30 head and a fender 2x12 cab.
I was plugged in my Focusrite 2i2 -> FX Loop return of my Jet City 100H head -> 2x12 cab
I use Neural DSP plugins (some of the best ones today). I usually use my EHX 44 Magnum (power amp pedal) for this technique but this way I'm able to use my amp head as a backup if my pc shuts down (but it is not a great amp at all). My Jet City head have only one 12AX7 valve for the loop, it may be important to know for the test.
At a very low level it's kind of cool but a bit unnatural, like very compressed. That's not the sound of an amp, but the amp of, lets say, an mp3 file through my cab. Our sound guy spent the day trying to go through my presets and eq-ing to reduce the super harshness of my sound. Our guitarist had to finally play very low, so did the rest of the band. The fact is that I'm totally crushed under my bandmates sound, even after non stop eq-ing. Not a lot of air even with my cab...
After concidering bying a better power amp pedal (like a Seymour Duncan Power amp), I begin to think to go back to a simple real (and good!) valve head. Because we play a kind of post hardcore/heavy shoegaze sound (Deftones/Nothing), I m asking you :
Is it worth to always buy a better interface, better computer, better power amp... and not really know if it's gonna sound gold because nobody really does it ?
Let's be honest : the reason we want to do this is because it enables to play all these damn good quality and unafordable amps (like Neural DSP simulates) without spending a lot.
At the end of the day I will spend more than in a good quality high gain head and I can still encounter many eq/volume/definition problemes I dont knpw about yet.
If you had other experiences, good or bad, please write ;)
Sorry to hear about this. In my limited test with the gear that I used in the video it sounded fine to me, and obviously the benefit like you mentioned is being able to used the Amps Sims we like in our studio in a live context. From my side I want jamming at super high volumes because I was testing it out in a small room. So maybe when pushed louder there is a different tone coming through. I'd say if you can maybe try test the setup through another power amp/pedal and see if it makes a difference. And yes also the audio interface you're using will make a difference. Don't try it out with the built in output on your computer rather use a dedicated audio interface. let us know if you have any luck.
I think part of the problem is your signal path becomes quite different from a real amp. A real valve amp has the power section interacting directly with the speaker/load (which has a significant effect on the tone and feel). Signal would go preamp > poweramp > speaker.
When you run an amp sim into a real amp's fx return, it goes virtual preamp > virtual power amp (without a load to interact with) > valve power amp > speaker.
That "virtual power amp without a load" is going to colour the sound and probably get more noticeable as you turn up the real amp when it clashes with the real amp's power section.
The way around it would be to use an amp sim thar allows you to not only disable the IR/speaker sim, but also the power section part (turning it into a preamp) - old amplitube, bias fx and revalver let you do this.
Alternatively, ditch the real guitar amp and go through a monitor with cab sim turned on.
One thing I'm going to try is capture an IR of my Torpedo Captor load box to simulate the load on a power amp, but without the speaker frequency filtering. In theory, putting that between a virtual amp sim (w/o speaker sim) and a SS amp/real guitar cab should sound more convincing.
Hope this nerd rambling is useful.
So, the output on the audio interface has the signal from the amp sim? Wouldn't it just be a "dry" signal?
It will be the preamp tone of the amp sim. So it can be a clean or overdriven tone depending on what channel is chosen from the respective amp sim
@@GaryHiebner Gotcha. Thanks man, I subbed.
What happens when you run the amp sim out the interface, through a reamp box, and in the front of your tube amp, i.e. it's preamp section?
Can you run it into the Sends and Return on your amp? Or else it will be a preamp going into another preamp. So you want to try bypass your preamp by going into the poweramp section of your amp.
@@GaryHiebner Mine has the effects loop, and their is a return. So, I could send the track through in through the effects return. The track I want to reamp was recorded with a boss br 1600 distorted amp setting. There's no clean DI. This is before cab sim/IRs. And I wonder how much the signal is analogous to a guitar with a distortion pedal between it and the front of the amp. The hard drives on the br 1600 are known to fail, so I d like to figure things out with a minimum of experimentation on my part.
For live situation, I really care about latency, how much would you spend on a laptop ? How do you reduce it to minimum ?
Thank you :)
Yeah this all depends on the spec of your machine. I'm using a MacBook Pro and Studio One and I'm able to reduce the latency to where its barely even noticeable. There will always be a degree of latency. But with a super high spec machine with a fast SSD drive, lots of RAM and a low buffer setting and you should be fine.
Buy the fastest cpu and ram you can afford.
@@56brever latency has more to do with the interface than the computer. I have a basic i5 laptop and I get the exact same roundtrip latency as my friend who has the same interface but an i7 gaming machine
You need a good fast interface and computer. RME babyface pro or something
On a semi decent computer/interface, latency shouldn't be worse than speed of sound standing a few feet from your amp.
Why no reamp box?
What power amp u using?
I'm using a Mooer BabyBomb Power amp pedal.
Thanks for the video, I have a question though.....For example I have an orange pedal baby, which is a power amp i use with my GT 1000. The input of the orange power amp expects an instrument cable, but the output of a soundcard expects a TRS cable for monitors.....So there is a problem here, really. How come you plug an instrument cabçe to a soundcard interface, or an audio trs cable to the input of a poweramp? It s not the same thing....There should be something wrong here.....Excuse my non enlightment on the subject. Thank you ;)
Hi Gib Son, I didn't go into my interface with an instrument cable. I mic-ed up my cabinet. And then took the microphone cable into my audio interface.
@@GaryHiebner Hi man...Thanks for your answer....But how do you go from your amp sim into the power amp? that s what i meant sorry....You are feeding the power amp from the computer amp sim, right? how?...Like I said, the output of audio interface expects an audio trs cable whereas the power amp input expects a instrument cable, which is an unshielded ts cable kind of thing....
Ok, yeah so from my audio interface I am using the unbalanced outputs from my audio interface into the preamps. So from my understanding TS are unbalanced connections. Where TRS are balanced connections (correct me if I'm wrong). But if you connect a TS cable to a TRS output you still getting an unbalanced signal cos the cable is unbalanced. It's not the most desirable solution. But it still works.
@@GaryHiebner Right. I get it. Thanks for being so kind. Keep up the good work. Cheers ;)
Nice video! Exactly what I wanted to know; because I am fed up on playing through headphones :). Is the poweramp needed to get enough volume from your guitarspeaker?
Yeah, my speaker isn't powered so I need the power amp pedal to provide a power amp section to it. The amp sums acts as the preamp
Well, it's usually like this in live situations.
A- The state already has an amp + a cab, I'd just plug the audio out into the fx-loop in.
B- The place doesn't have an amp and 99% of the times in this case they don't have a guitar cab. But they have a speaker system of some sort, I'd just use IR's and then plug it directly as line in.
Other than that I don't really see why I'd want to do something like this for practicing since with IR's any sort of home speakers can sound the way your guitar speaker does except for free unless it's absolutely the worst. But anyways cool tip. Thanks I guess.
sound the same, yes. feel the same, no. playing through a set of 12 inch speakers moving air definitely hits different than through smaller monitors. all I have are cheap 3" multimedia speakers that just do not sound or feel all that great playing my amp sims through.
@@kmw5100 Yeah gotta admit that I agree with the speaker size point.
The idea is to make a fake amp feel more real. If you’re happy to play through your Logitech speakers that’s up to you. Also if you want to buy a valve amp and use the FX loop for a fake amp, you really don’t get it.
@@illgottengains1314 I really do get it and you do not, the sound I generate is the same sound as the sound I generate with adam speakers. The diffefrence only occurs when you are trying tto mitigate bass and sax and shit. Whatever you input gets in the stupid mix that's the basic logic and it works, get over it..., It does not fucking matter if you have a tube amp or not in the fucking mix. And I have a peavey 5505 and it is fucking worse than anything I can play with plugins... Just try googlin "vst distortion" I'm sure it'll change your life dude :)
@@fy7589 calm down baby. If you want the best solution, stick a celestion F12-X200 in a decent guitar cab. It’s a full range speaker. Sound on Sound gave it a rave review for use on stage with modelling including cab IRs.
Shouldn’t you also use a reamp box?
Yeah a reamp box helps if you go from the balanced outputs on your audio interface into the unbalanced input of the guitar amp. Vut if you dont have a reamp box you can mstill do it without it. You might just have more noise in the signal chain going from balanced to an unbalanced signal
I request, how to Bass sound like Fieldy Korn, & Guitar sound like a Bryan Head & Munky Korn, specialy korn song "Here to stay", the sound guitar in "here to stay" so cool & crazy booom i like it.
Bytheway im making song in Cubase +Vst Guitarig & Pod Farm.
My guitar Esp LTd V401 with active pickup Emg drop A, but i need a korn sound like "here to stay"
Thx broo. Keep Numetal 🤘
Thanks for the suggestion. I did do a 'How to sound Nu Metal' video where there are some sort of Korn parts there. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/WRvdsgAQYNQ/видео.html
does it feel like an amp?
Feels pretty close
I tried this setup many times, but I can't make it sound and feel like a real guitar amp. Every time it just sounds very flabby and muffled, with no definition and no attack.
My cab sim is disabled, there is no clipping, but it still sounds very cheap... It feels like playing a guitar on a neck pickup with a tone knob set to 0. I can make it somewhat usable by enabling overdrive in the plugin and cutting some flabbiness with a eq, but it still sounds quite bad.
I am using scarlett focusrite solo 3rd gen and a solid custom made 212 v30 cab.
My joyo zombie amp, or boss katana head sounds 100 times better than any Neural DSP sim going into my cab... I really wanna make it sound good, but maybe impedance is the problem?
What are you using between your interface output and the cab? What power amp are you using? First check your input gain going into the Neural plugin is high enough as well. This an make quite a difference if its too low
@@GaryHiebner between my interface output and the cab there is only a poweramp. I have tested it with SD Powerstage, Boss katana mk2 head "power amp in", and even tried plugging to my full tube jcm 800 clone amp. Every time it just sounds very flat and basic :/
My input gain is perfectly adjusted.
pretty much same situation here. also have the joyo. and it sounds amazing for bedroom volume. the attack and feel is good. one tip from my side: i like to use just the preamps from helix native. i think the lack of definition and attack comes from the poweramp sim from the vst. preamps only is much better results
@@christianhuber8461 Hmm... I have tried to run a preamp only vst into my poweramp and it sounded just as bad, so I don't think it's caused by a poweramp simulation going into a "real" poweramp.
I feel like bad tone is caused by a wrong impedance, right now I have a few modellers including helix running into my sd powerstage and if I set input impedance very low in the helix it sounds kinda the same as vst from my pc going into a poweramp - muddy, muffled, undetailed.
I belive that you need a DI Box to make it sound good, but I gave up and just ended up using a "real" modelers + poweramp.
Also full amp block sounds much better when you run it into a neutral, clean poweramp, if you go into the real amp preamp may be a better option :)
interesting! i am using neural dsp plugins. especially fortin cali suite is amazing. i run it without cab sim and go into my harley benton low cost poweramp , without cabsim, and then into my cab. sound is amazing. as expected, not 100% dynamics from tube amps, but sound is awesome
@@cursedbyzen9510
i tried this with the Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 into the Nu-X Solid Studio. It works but i'm having trouble with the volume being incredibly low, and i can't seem to find a way to turn up the volume?
I don't know that device too well, but are you saying if you push the volume up to the max you not getting enough level? And are your tracks in your DAW at unity gain?
Where you from dawg? unique accent
South African
studio one is just disaster of a DAW xD
oh yeah, been playing all those years without an audio device...
To hell with any apple product