NOOO. YOU CAN'T JUST USE THE BISON, THAT ISN'T THE META, YOU'RE MEANT TO BE USING THE BUFF BANNER SO WE CAN EFFECTIVELY KILL THE SWARM OF BOTS, NOOOOO. haha bison go bzzt
@@molda8082 widowmaker can be better, especially with crits, but that sacrifices the engineer's attention when there's probably other robots to deal with. in my experience sniper can solo most tanks, and it's usually not too much of a loss for his attention to be elsewhere
@@SimulacrumF most of the times i just leave the main sentry to deal with other robots and take my extra sentry to help with tank because widowmaker deals 10% more damage agains sentrys targets and i solo shred it, i mostly have 25-30k tank damage by the end pf the game
@@molda8082 i wish i could leave my sentry to go solo tanks, most team comps i'm in don't protect the sentry, so i usually use rescue ranger. it is pretty clever to use the disposable sentry to get that extra damage
@@SimulacrumF i would use rescue ranger too and switch to widowmaker when the tank is in the wave but i dont have it (rescue ranger) so i always use widowmaker
Not every tank has 20000HP, the health they have varies greatly between maps, with the highest health pool so far being the final tank on nightmare difficulty, which spawns with 60000HP
This test uses a fixed tank HP for testing, or else you are obliged to test said tank under EVERY POSSIBLE condition still fit for the test (Such as if you add extra players running optimal solution, more kritz medics alternating to sustain near perfect crit rates or if other auxiliary buffs are being run (Buff banner, Conchistador (move speed), disciplinary action...) As well) The case is isolated with mininal variables, HP is one as the HP Pool will only determine odds of sucess depending as you can draw the TTK by using this one as the basis for the TTK/TankHP chart.
“despite the fact that pyro is regarded aa “the tank shredded” for some reason” i mean phlog pyro pretty good at taking down tanks, and that’s especially the case when theres more than 1 pyro. also not to mention the dragons fury exists, that shit with crits + damage upgrades is insane
the dragons fury and phlog actually deal relatively similar damage against the tank with a crit canteen, it's just the fact that the phlog gets as many free crit canteens as you can get while the tank is alive once your mmmph bar turns red and you press right click. plus, if you taunt cancel by using the phlog while on top of the tank near the back end, you can get an extra second or two of mmmph crits, making it nearly 2.2x more effective than using a crit canteen, as one only lasts 5 seconds, unless its given by a canteen specialist medic in which it then lasts 8 seconds at most, but even then the medic shouldn't be staying with the pyro unless its like one of the very few waves that effectively only have tanks.
@@awerelia also isn't the Plog a bit more... User friendly? Sure, lack of airblast sucks, but DF has trash airblast anyways (1.4-1.6 seconds between airblast to either firing action of DF) and needs a STRONGLY optmized way of playing it in MvM to get close to a base Phlog run.... Phlog is the most straight "Offensive Pyro" primary you can even get, and it alone is exactly the source of headaches in PvP since none of the other styles can actually beat a decent Phlog mmph spree (Combo Pyros cannot tackle more than 2 opponents and that depends of the skill levels of them all; Flanker relies on surprise and Backburners aren't better than stock outside back attacks (which are stupidly arbitrary in Source engine coding); Deffense.... Wouldn't be trying to freakin go Scorch the enemy lands to begin with).
Haven’t seen or heard from ya in a while. I love that you are still up to you shenanigans. Plus I am digging the sound effect. It makes me feel like playing SHUMP on the NES or SNES. XD
I believe the fact that pyro is used for tank busting is because he is good enough. Soldier is probably better off doing something else since his splash damage has more impact on clusters of bots. Though there is no denying bison is just very good at tank busting. But like I said soldier is not useless on tank busting duty, just more useful else where. Great vid btw.
Fully upgraded Widow Maker is just cheap for busting tanks. Just get on top of it and keep blasting until it's dead. Never run out of ammo, never have to reload.
@@awerelia penetrating players as a projectile is literally what makes bison unique, you take that and give it to another weapon the bison becomes even shittier
@@duncanchillake8024 that doesn't even make the bison shittier, given the pomson is already on the same level of shittyness due to the fact that on both classes, every other selectable weapon in that slot is better by leagues just simply due to reliablity and/or utility.
The only scenario that matters is Phlog w/ Oomph vs Bison alone. I don't know why you're including a Kritzkrieg Medic in any of these or restricting the Phlog from using it's main feature. The only other scenario of interest would be the addition of critz canteens, but in that scenario you sorta misplayed the Pyro by using 2 crit canteens in a row rather than crit -> Oomph -> crit. I guess you thought that the tank would probably go down too quickly for the full combo of 6 crit sessions to play out, but saving money on crit canteens is pretty much the primary purpose of the Phlog. Perhaps try vs a tank with greater health than the base 20k?
restricting the phlog from using its main feature is simply as a point of comparison, as if you were using another flame thrower for example. the kritzkrieg is again another point of comparison, as generally the medic should be kritzing a tank destroying target if the tank absolutely comes first or is the last enemy anyways. i plan to make another video *eventually* in the future featuring literally every single weapon in the game that benefits any additional worth while stats/damage towards tanks (things like atomizer minicrits when airborne effectively do nothing for example, an extra 5 damage is not noteworthy especially for how inconsistent it is), plus stock weapons of course to use as a general base for every class.
@@awerelia The problem with this is that Phlog is as good of a tank busting weapon as it is entirely because it has mmmph. That's why it's the only flamethrower that's actually a good tank busting weapon. If the point is to compare these two weapons in specific, why bother adding this additional comparison at all?
good video 5 stars although i think you should have shown how powerful penetration is on tanks, phlog does not stand a chance when there is more than 1 tank out at same time.
there's only one official mvm mission which has tanks line up properly to utilize the penetration, which is only playable in boot camp anyways. in theory the bison does have effectively unlimited dps, but practically speaking is on par with phlog.
@@viket8316 that deals the same amount of damage. all that matters is that the flame hitbox is hitting the tank as soon as possible. you can do it that way, looking nearly straight up, standing atop of it and looking very slightly downward, and from the side where most weapons deal the most damage anyways since its closest to the center of the hitbox.
One thing I should note is that I see you already have the bison crit charged before the wave begins, whereas the phlog gets crit charged as soon as the wave begins, which shaves off some crit damage from the bison. I believe that, when they are equally timed, the bison would have outdamaged the phlog in the third and possibly fourth test
What do all MVM videos have in common when they claim that a weapon is better than the phlog at tank busting? They all use the Phlog incorrectly. Also Phlog only needs 2150 credits for the standart tank shred duty.
flames deal more damage the sooner they hit a hitbox. looking up, crouching when looking almost perpendicular with the tank when standing atop of it, or being right next to it makes the flames hit it almost immediately. additionally, ramp up affects the tank, where you have to be closer to the center of the hitbox to deal more damage, however as far as i'm aware only affects hitscan, and not the flamethrower as its scaling is affected by how long the flame particle has been out, which is why shooting the middle of the side of a tank with the shotgun deals the most damage.
@@awerelia The reason why looking up increases your damage output isn't because it makes the flames hit sooner, it's because the damage is calculated using the furthest particles that actually make contact. That's why shooting directly into the tank lowers your damage, because it's calculating it using the flame particles that are a full tank length's away. Shooting up at the upper corner of the tank cuts off the flame hitbox early so the last flame particles that come deal damage are still at point blank range.
having been a year and a half since i made this video both my computer and general aesthetic sounds of the games have improved. such as using galaga sounds that don't penetrate the eardrums.
I plan to make a video showcasing every single weapon that offers any actual bonus toward tank damage over stock (excluding the stock shotgun, as the panic attack offers more damage point blank) in any capacity. For example the back scatter, the liberty launcher, or the loch n load won't be tested. I'll likely just upload it in individual videos per class showcasing every weapon slot, and in cases of multiclass weapons i'll put them in the first class which they show up in as there's no difference functionally speaking. Which is really only case scenario for the panic attack anyway.
correction about the phlog and looking up, it only deals 2x more damage as opposed to looking head on
Can you pin this?
NOOO. YOU CAN'T JUST USE THE BISON, THAT ISN'T THE META, YOU'RE MEANT TO BE USING THE BUFF BANNER SO WE CAN EFFECTIVELY KILL THE SWARM OF BOTS, NOOOOO.
haha bison go bzzt
Why not use beggars?
@@agthegreat1104 Air strike go brrr
@@mrdeadflower that works too
haha bison got pew pew
cleaner's carbine + bushwacka shreds a tank too
Widowmaker is better in my opinion
@@molda8082 widowmaker can be better, especially with crits, but that sacrifices the engineer's attention when there's probably other robots to deal with. in my experience sniper can solo most tanks, and it's usually not too much of a loss for his attention to be elsewhere
@@SimulacrumF most of the times i just leave the main sentry to deal with other robots and take my extra sentry to help with tank because widowmaker deals 10% more damage agains sentrys targets and i solo shred it, i mostly have 25-30k tank damage by the end pf the game
@@molda8082 i wish i could leave my sentry to go solo tanks, most team comps i'm in don't protect the sentry, so i usually use rescue ranger. it is pretty clever to use the disposable sentry to get that extra damage
@@SimulacrumF i would use rescue ranger too and switch to widowmaker when the tank is in the wave but i dont have it (rescue ranger) so i always use widowmaker
I didn't know I needed stretched medic until I saw him thank you
Not every tank has 20000HP, the health they have varies greatly between maps, with the highest health pool so far being the final tank on nightmare difficulty, which spawns with 60000HP
This test uses a fixed tank HP for testing, or else you are obliged to test said tank under EVERY POSSIBLE condition still fit for the test (Such as if you add extra players running optimal solution, more kritz medics alternating to sustain near perfect crit rates or if other auxiliary buffs are being run (Buff banner, Conchistador (move speed), disciplinary action...) As well)
The case is isolated with mininal variables, HP is one as the HP Pool will only determine odds of sucess depending as you can draw the TTK by using this one as the basis for the TTK/TankHP chart.
@@andrehashimoto8056 Yea, this comment is only acknowledging that the statement "tanks have 20000HP" in the video is false..
Everyone still shreds it lmao
also the last one on broken parts wave 6 has 60k hp
My brother: GUN LOUD AAAAAA
syl: hehe hitsound make funny sound
I don’t understand why the phlog would not always use mmmph, isn’t that the whole reason it’s an effective tank buster?
its solely there as a point of comparison if anything
I thought the same thing
@@awerelia But the point of the video is to see which one does it’s job best. The crits help so should be used.
“despite the fact that pyro is regarded aa “the tank shredded” for some reason”
i mean phlog pyro pretty good at taking down tanks, and that’s especially the case when theres more than 1 pyro. also not to mention the dragons fury exists, that shit with crits + damage upgrades is insane
the dragons fury and phlog actually deal relatively similar damage against the tank with a crit canteen, it's just the fact that the phlog gets as many free crit canteens as you can get while the tank is alive once your mmmph bar turns red and you press right click. plus, if you taunt cancel by using the phlog while on top of the tank near the back end, you can get an extra second or two of mmmph crits, making it nearly 2.2x more effective than using a crit canteen, as one only lasts 5 seconds, unless its given by a canteen specialist medic in which it then lasts 8 seconds at most, but even then the medic shouldn't be staying with the pyro unless its like one of the very few waves that effectively only have tanks.
@@awerelia also isn't the Plog a bit more... User friendly? Sure, lack of airblast sucks, but DF has trash airblast anyways (1.4-1.6 seconds between airblast to either firing action of DF) and needs a STRONGLY optmized way of playing it in MvM to get close to a base Phlog run....
Phlog is the most straight "Offensive Pyro" primary you can even get, and it alone is exactly the source of headaches in PvP since none of the other styles can actually beat a decent Phlog mmph spree (Combo Pyros cannot tackle more than 2 opponents and that depends of the skill levels of them all; Flanker relies on surprise and Backburners aren't better than stock outside back attacks (which are stupidly arbitrary in Source engine coding); Deffense.... Wouldn't be trying to freakin go Scorch the enemy lands to begin with).
Haven’t seen or heard from ya in a while. I love that you are still up to you shenanigans. Plus I am digging the sound effect. It makes me feel like playing SHUMP on the NES or SNES. XD
i've been mainly on steam, especially considering I got a new computer which is plenty more powerful than my old laptop
I believe the fact that pyro is used for tank busting is because he is good enough. Soldier is probably better off doing something else since his splash damage has more impact on clusters of bots.
Though there is no denying bison is just very good at tank busting. But like I said soldier is not useless on tank busting duty, just more useful else where. Great vid btw.
Fully upgraded Widow Maker is just cheap for busting tanks. Just get on top of it and keep blasting until it's dead. Never run out of ammo, never have to reload.
But you miss on the rescue ranger
@@yspear_ then just be better at engineer
The rescue ranger do be a crutch for bad engies
I never would have thought the bison is actually good for something, well, guess what im using for the charity mvm tours...
you know what would have been awesome? Infinite ammo upgrade for bison
what would be more awesome is if the pomson had a penetration upgrade since it used to have a penetrating projectile like the bison
@@awerelia penetrating players as a projectile is literally what makes bison unique, you take that and give it to another weapon the bison becomes even shittier
@@duncanchillake8024 that doesn't even make the bison shittier, given the pomson is already on the same level of shittyness due to the fact that on both classes, every other selectable weapon in that slot is better by leagues just simply due to reliablity and/or utility.
Laser gun go brrr
Not allowing mmph for this comparison is very disingenuous
The only scenario that matters is Phlog w/ Oomph vs Bison alone. I don't know why you're including a Kritzkrieg Medic in any of these or restricting the Phlog from using it's main feature. The only other scenario of interest would be the addition of critz canteens, but in that scenario you sorta misplayed the Pyro by using 2 crit canteens in a row rather than crit -> Oomph -> crit. I guess you thought that the tank would probably go down too quickly for the full combo of 6 crit sessions to play out, but saving money on crit canteens is pretty much the primary purpose of the Phlog. Perhaps try vs a tank with greater health than the base 20k?
restricting the phlog from using its main feature is simply as a point of comparison, as if you were using another flame thrower for example. the kritzkrieg is again another point of comparison, as generally the medic should be kritzing a tank destroying target if the tank absolutely comes first or is the last enemy anyways. i plan to make another video *eventually* in the future featuring literally every single weapon in the game that benefits any additional worth while stats/damage towards tanks (things like atomizer minicrits when airborne effectively do nothing for example, an extra 5 damage is not noteworthy especially for how inconsistent it is), plus stock weapons of course to use as a general base for every class.
@@awerelia The problem with this is that Phlog is as good of a tank busting weapon as it is entirely because it has mmmph. That's why it's the only flamethrower that's actually a good tank busting weapon. If the point is to compare these two weapons in specific, why bother adding this additional comparison at all?
@@dispentryporter8621 why not
@@awerelia Because it effectively gives the bison an advantage against the phlog by comparing the bison with full power against the phlog without.
@@awerelia the phlog's only upside is mmmph taunting, you can't compare it to other weapons if you are gonna remove it's main function
good video 5 stars
although i think you should have shown how powerful penetration is on tanks, phlog does not stand a chance when there is more than 1 tank out at same time.
there's only one official mvm mission which has tanks line up properly to utilize the penetration, which is only playable in boot camp anyways. in theory the bison does have effectively unlimited dps, but practically speaking is on par with phlog.
What sounds of hell have you recorded for that hit sound??
I KNEW THE BISON REALLY IS OP
Yep, especially when you don't let the phlog use it's only upside (mmmph crits)
haha raygun go bzzt
I like to use the Force-A-Nature (fully upgraded damage, clip size and ammo capacity) and Crit-A-Cola (fully upgraded with fast recharge time)
Why not use soda popper? The force a natures knockback messes with teammates ngl.
@@agthegreat1104 I didn't have it at the time, plus force-a-nature does more damage
@@mechaniccccc not really, soda popper does more damage because of the lack of the knockback effect.
@@agthegreat1104 It's for the tank silly
@@mechaniccccc soda popper is also for the tank. It is much better than force a nature
"shoot angles is optimal"
process to use the phlog in a not optimal angle*
what is your optimal angle then for using the phlog that gets you a free effective double damage
@@awerelia ruclips.net/video/veq48I6B4UI/видео.html
@@viket8316 that deals the same amount of damage. all that matters is that the flame hitbox is hitting the tank as soon as possible. you can do it that way, looking nearly straight up, standing atop of it and looking very slightly downward, and from the side where most weapons deal the most damage anyways since its closest to the center of the hitbox.
its nice to see that evan the worst weapons can be op in mvm
Phlog was never bad tho?
@@vyor8837 bison
Dat hitsound tho. Where can I download it?
Bushwhacker + Cleaner's carbine is stupid powerful.
pew pew pew
One thing I should note is that I see you already have the bison crit charged before the wave begins, whereas the phlog gets crit charged as soon as the wave begins, which shaves off some crit damage from the bison. I believe that, when they are equally timed, the bison would have outdamaged the phlog in the third and possibly fourth test
On the other hand, he didn't use mmmph
Whats your hud
nice comparison but the left hand view models are so cursed
DUDE I AM WEARING HEADPHONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bison
using bison since Titanium Tank
consider that bison takes less money to fully upgrade
What do all MVM videos have in common when they claim that a weapon is better than the phlog at tank busting? They all use the Phlog incorrectly. Also Phlog only needs 2150 credits for the standart tank shred duty.
Brrr
Crit canteen fragons fury
I'm not sure that's the best position for the phlog to be used. Therefore this could've been cheating without further testing
flames deal more damage the sooner they hit a hitbox. looking up, crouching when looking almost perpendicular with the tank when standing atop of it, or being right next to it makes the flames hit it almost immediately. additionally, ramp up affects the tank, where you have to be closer to the center of the hitbox to deal more damage, however as far as i'm aware only affects hitscan, and not the flamethrower as its scaling is affected by how long the flame particle has been out, which is why shooting the middle of the side of a tank with the shotgun deals the most damage.
@@awerelia The reason why looking up increases your damage output isn't because it makes the flames hit sooner, it's because the damage is calculated using the furthest particles that actually make contact. That's why shooting directly into the tank lowers your damage, because it's calculating it using the flame particles that are a full tank length's away. Shooting up at the upper corner of the tank cuts off the flame hitbox early so the last flame particles that come deal damage are still at point blank range.
Those hitsounds are quite uh, high in volume
having been a year and a half since i made this video both my computer and general aesthetic sounds of the games have improved. such as using galaga sounds that don't penetrate the eardrums.
2:39
I sent you my bomb please respod
final verdict?
just use crits
I saw 2 bison soldier killed a tank only 10 secs
If you know what's good for you you will run!!
my ears
the next video i upload won't have the hitsounds on dont worry
I'd like to see a max beggars bazooka or a max soda popper/shortstop next, if you're willing to, of course
I plan to make a video showcasing every single weapon that offers any actual bonus toward tank damage over stock (excluding the stock shotgun, as the panic attack offers more damage point blank) in any capacity. For example the back scatter, the liberty launcher, or the loch n load won't be tested. I'll likely just upload it in individual videos per class showcasing every weapon slot, and in cases of multiclass weapons i'll put them in the first class which they show up in as there's no difference functionally speaking. Which is really only case scenario for the panic attack anyway.
@@awerelia oh nice, it'll be interesting to see how each weapon compares with each other and which weapons are truly the most viable for tank busting