Everyone knows Steve Nash robbed Kobe back to back.. Shaq was in Miami playing backup behind Wade. Stop lying on national TV. But Shaq got Robbed and Kobe was what# Westbrook MVP
I think its safe to say now, the coast is clear.... I think. Skip may have touched on this previously. Many people don't realise how bad of a player Kobe was as no 8. Meaning one dimensional, little to no defensive effort, immature court vision, non existent passing and NO intangibles. Shaq was a phenom, but Shaq also outweighed his opponent by 60+ pounds. As good as he was. Shannon sees the game only on face value without realising the depths of the game and what really wins games and championships. Like when Skip says that Giniobili was a generational innovator that Kobe learned from. Real 5 on 5 basketball. Not dribble/dribble.......... fade away- drive to the net(oh he fouled me) type of play. Kobe I am sure was a Manchurian candidate in this regard. You see his play(awful) as no 8 and you must think a high scorer on a three peat team is the best guard ever. Yet, Skip may order me to do 8 count push ups if I said this. I don't think Jordan was the goat either because he played in an era where this evolved play was less frequent. Before Manu, how many players utilised the hammer pass for instance. Or elite passing at all? Manu wasn't the best passer ever, but he was an OG in this regard because the game evolved from that style. A style that LeBron even had to learn and has become quite adept at. Scoring is scoring, but it is that it is one aspect of the game. A great scorer is a play finisher, not a playmaker per say.
@@Jeazzy24 Kobe ahead of lebron is a insult to common sense. The only reason he has so many finals elimination is that he can carry trash teams to the finals unlike Kobe or Jordan.
@@DestroyerOff trash teams. Lebron has played with more Hof and all stars then anyone. Get out the comment section with the nonsense cuz u don't like facts. 6 Ls eliminate u from top 3 PERIOD
It's over appreciated. That's a ridiculous prerequisite. Tim Duncan doesn't have remotely the same peak as Shaq and does not deserve to be higher than him. I don't care if Shaq played for 10 teams, that should not devalue anyone's career.
Shaq last to 3peat, his average in the NBA finals during the 3peat: 38.0, 33.0 and then his third 36.3. Shaq in his day absolutely unstoppable, commands a doubleteam every posession, and a lot of opposite defenders are in foul trouble. Shaq killed Tim Duncan on multiple occasions, and Duncan is a top6 player in my books. Curry is top ten player, but Shaq is not the guy you bump out.
No one wants to say it but tbh the guy who should get bumped is Bird. His injuries ruined his longevity which has to come into play in the all-time lists and between him and Magic I have Magic still there.
@@logandraper6271 Bird’s prime was enough to keep him on the list. 3 straight MVPs, for those years it was undisputed who the best player in the world was
@@logandraper6271 If anyons bumped its between Bird and Wilt. Wilt only has 2 chips and 4 mvps and Bird has 3 chips and 3 mvps, so it's between those two. And id personally take off Wilt before Bird cause of time Bird played in. Wilt dominated cause of his size and height but Bill was 3 inches shorter playing the same position with more rings obviously and mvps. So it really should be Wilt.
Brah Wilt Chamberlain caused the mt.everest shift in the 🏀 world. Rules change x5 to limit his dominance. He didnt dominate based off his size. He limited based on his size. He couldn't bulldoze like Shaq or Lebron. It was a charge back then. Dude athleticism is greatest prolly ever. Bill Russell/Wilt won the same mvps when both of them were in the league. Wilt owns the record book for Playoffs and regular season. Let not even get into who Did Shaq play in the finals when he won. Washed up players who were bums. Teams was bums. Refs handed them titles. Wilt Chamberlain is top 2 With Michael. The 🏀 world goes out of it way to suppress the real GOAT. In Wilt. The debate in the 90s and 80s was who the GOAT. WILT OR JORDAN. Even those two among all of thr players argued about it. Everyone else was bystanders
Once I saw Shannon’s top ten on the screen I just start spamming the fast forward button to see where skip was gonna have lebron on his list 😂😂😂 I mean I knew it was gonna be low but 9???? He must be trolling us at this point 😂😂😂😂
Brons floor is 3, but honestly he isn’t first. Even if they played the same game with the same stats they have id still put Jordan first, but when Jordan played it was SO much harder to score, stack stats. The foul and ref system back then made it so much harder on offense
@@elijahsimms2992 Not true, 2000s were much harder to score due to the rule on double teams. MJ could get in isos way easier and zone defense was banned in the 90s. You either had to commit to the double or play man to man. No funneling allowed.
In Jordan’s era jersey checking was legal and every time someone would go up for a shot they were allowed to yank you down by your Jersey mid shot and it wasn’t a foul. That’s mainly why I’m saying it was harder. Also people back then took more 2s, which usually translates into less points scored but that was bc Steph wasn’t in the league yet. Mainly the Jersey checking. I see what u mean though about the plays
True. Skip doesn’t like new players though. Is biased for retired players so he has lebron at I think it was 9th? And curry isn’t even over Kobe in his list. Kobe only had 1 mvp
I love Shaq but putting him top 3 greatest of all time is absolutely crazy Edit: Being the best in your prime or having a unstoppable dominance in your prime doesn't make you great. It's like Skip when he tries make his case for Baker with that 11 game stretch, QBR 91 scale 0-100, 4th highest rated QB spiel. You have to take TOTAL BODY OF WORK not just their greatest hits/career highlights hence why Shaq can never be a top 3 greatest all time. He's not even a top 3 center all time (Kareem, Wilt, Bill)
if you watch the best game in the peak of every great, shaq is the best, thats why they call him the most dominant ever, he was literally unstopable, but he had bad longevity so I wouldnt put him in top3, but I understand why someone else would
So Skip lists off Shaq accolades to make a point of why he's all time over Steph but what would he say if you did the same thing with LeBron? Having him 9th with all he's accomplished, accolades, and records with Shaq as your 3rd all time is the most blatant form of hating and contradiction I've seen.
The thing about these lists is that everyone has different metrics. One of the biggest bring individual success vs Team Success. How great were you vs how often did you win. Wilt and Russell capture that to the extreme.
@@doesntmatter6453 No, he didn't LMAO. Wilt averaged Wilt Chamberlain averaged 28.0 rebounds, 25.7 points and 4.1 assists in 49 games in the playoffs versus Bill Russell If someone is getting 25 and 28 on you, you ain't clamping him down. Not to mention, that the 55 rebound game was against Russell. Even scored 61 on him at one point
I mean, in theory Wilt and Russell embody that. If you're under 70, though, you really never saw Wilt and Bill play. There just isn't enough footage to go back and really see how it was. Some counter-intuitive things may very well be true. There's an argument that Wilt was just putting up useless numbers early on, but when he reduced his scoring it could be arguable Wilt was actually "better" than when he was averaging 50 (in a year with the highest pace of all time and playing 48 minutes a game). I'll never know, though, because the footage is scanty to say the least.
Instead of attacking who is and isn't top 10, we need to increase the value and emphasize the importance of the top 15 or 20, the difference between 4-15 is often where the debate lies because the passage of time will add more and more great players of comparable success and talent. Everyone top 10 order is different but 90% of everyone's top 15 have the same players which is actually where the value lies.
You're completely right. It's so subjective between 4-15. Do you value longevity? Higher peak? Do you value defense and rebounding? Or the ability to make teammates better? The ability to orchestrate an offense? Do you value athleticism or sheer physical dominance? The ability to switch 1-5? Do you value having the clutch gene? Accolades? There are so many factors, it comes down to personal preference. I personally don't have Curry top 10. 3 of his 4 rings were easy and heavily favored to win, and he also didn't peak until around age 26 so he doesn't have a crazy long peak compared to a lot of other players. He's also lacking athleticism and strength so he can't defend or dunk at an elite level. There is nothing wrong with saying Curry is top 12-14 and still going, that's still an unbelievable feat but ppl act like it's slandering him. He made it to top 15 while being serviceable on defense at best and peaking late, which just goes to show great his offense is. You're right that most ppl have the same top 15 and it's like splitting hairs trying to make a top 10. A lot of ppl underrate Oscar, Hakeem, Russell, Jerry West (30ppg player with elite defense), even KD could be argued considering he was superstar by age 19 so he has longevity on his side.
Unc too funny “Now run tell that, you see that list, look list right there” 😂.. He makes tha show better frfr, whether it’s a serious segment/topic or a comical one, Unc always got that edge.
I disagree a lot with both of their lists. As for Shannon, I didn’t rl hear an argument as to why he had Steph over shaq, he jus said shaq underachieved. And skip having Bron at 9…
Agreed. Shaq shouldn't be punished for underachieving. His resume is great. 3 fmvps, 1 mvp, scoring title. 8th all time in blocks. Top 10 in scoring and per. He should be a mainstay.
there’s a lot of bias on who they’d have in there top 10, but shannon gave a clear and real explanation as to why his list is the way it is, i respect his decisions in putting players in the spots he did even if i don’t 100% agree with them
Can we keep it real here? As a Lakers fan during the Kobe-Shaq run, and as someone who had to sit through the loss in 2004, I am 100% with Shannon about Shaq. Was Shaq all-time TALENTED? Of course! We haven't seen anybody like him since Wilt, and they dominated in different ways. But let's not forget, Shaq was a massive liability at the free throw line. They even named a strategy after him, "hack-a-Shaq". You COULD NOT HAVE HIM ON THE FLOOR IN THE 4TH QUARTER OF CLOSE GAMES IF YOU WANTED TO WIN. Come on, do we say that about Curry? We can argue defense all day but it's clear (to me at least) that Steph has become a credible enough defender so that teams can't blatantly exploit him on that end of the floor like they exploited Shaq's weakness. Steph is still a bad individual defender but you have to worry about him in the passing lanes and he picks people's pocket on a regular basis (highest steals average per game in the 2022 Finals). On top of that, Shannon's absolutely right. Shaq's ability fell off a cliff after he left the Lakers. Shaq did NOT have Kobe's work ethic and was famously quoted saying stupid (for a pro athlete) things like "I got hurt on company time, I'll get better on company time." OK, maybe if you want to be mediocre this makes sense, but if you want to be AMONG THE BEST IN THE WORLD this isn't quite a killer mentality. And yeah, we can argue they should have given the regular season MVP to Shaq instead of Steve Nash, but we also argue that Steph should have gotten the Finals MVP the year Iggy won it. Overall, I think Steph has had a bigger impact on the game, was the first unanimous regular season MVP, and has shown he can win without a top tier superstar next to him. Shaq never won anything without Kobe or D Wade, both all-time great shooting guards. And Steph did this not ONCE, but TWICE without KD. So let's not pretend it's all about Shaq being bad or anything like that. No, Shaq is an all-time great player. But like Shannon said, it gets ticky-tacky as time goes on for a top 10 because there are always going to be new great players in the game, and therefore it gets more and more crowded on these all-time lists when it comes to making a case for different players. But I think Curry over Shaq isn't that hard. Yes, they couldn't stop Shaq in his era, but can anybody stop Curry in this one? In Game 6 of the Finals, wasn't Steph stepping on the logo draining 3's to close out the series? To my eyes, the only one that stops Steph on any given night is Steph (because he's cold shooting). And oh right, to stop Shaq all we have to do is foul him.
Shaq is the youngest player ever to make NBA top 50 greatest players that saying alot about Shaq how great he really was Kobe even said out his own mouth that Shaq was the most dominant player he's ever seen and played with facts
You said you were a lakers fan during their run but you say all you have to do to stop Shaq is to foul him? Obviously you weren’t really a fan if thats what you really think….
@@vinnyl264 I'm being facetious to some degree, but obviously I mean "stop him in the 4th quarter". You can't keep Shaq on the floor late in games because he's going to be fouled repeatedly and the other team will just keep taking free throws. OBVIOUSLY Shaq is one of the all-time greats, a force of nature, and nobody could keep Shaq from going where he wanted to go on the court, including the rim. (Well, a couple of guys gave Shaq some trouble, like Yao Ming for example)
@@Qichar it’s become more and more obvious you never watched the lakers lol. They were never pulling Shaq in the 4th quarter of big time games… especially on the lakers. If you didn’t watch, just say it.
@Qichar you should have this comment published as a book. It's certainly long enough. And it's accurate. Some of the things you mentioned I had totally forgotten about. Shaq was a monster but it didn't last long enough for him to be top 10 all time. Shannons argument is well thought out while skip is using shock value. The debate is not even close.
@Trendy way Idc if he only had 1 mvp, Guy has 15 all nba selections, 9 of em being first team, and was also 9 times first team all defense, 12 selections. He above bird and Duncan.
@Trendy way nah it had everything to do with that case and everyone knows Nash didnt deserve those. Kobe and Shaq should've got 1 each of those. This is also why you can't go by stats alone to know who was actually nice like that on the court. One of those seasons Kobe avg like 35 a game and had an insane run of like a month plus of scoring 60 and 50 every damn game! Insane numbers that Nash didnt even come close to.
I agree with both of them. Shaq is fosho higher than 10 just not quite 3 and like Shannon said, Lebron is 3 at worst. Its always interesting to see where people put Wilt and Russell. Plus personally, if Curry wins another championship he goes from 11 to 7 on my list. If he wins two more it really starts to get interesting. And I think he’ll play another 6-8 years and the Warriors have a smart front office, definitely possible.
So are you judging by the amount of championships players have,well if so Bill is number 1.Everyone has their own list so its all about opinions.I would say Wilt is most underrated and so is Dr.J and Karl Malone
@@glenroybrathwaite1531 Rings have like 50% influence in rankings. So Steph's ranking will always rise every time he wins a championship. But rings arent everything that's why no one thinks Robert horry was one of the greatest. Also Bill Russel's championships should be valued less since it was in an 8 team league.
My Picks.. 1. Michael Jordan 2. LeBron James 3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar 4. Wilt Chamberlain 5. Bill Russell 6. Magic Johnson 7. Larry Bird 8. Kobe Bryant 9. Tim Duncan 10. Hakeem Olajuwon 11. Shaquille O’Neal 12. Stephen Curry
Curry is amongst top 10 who changed nba rules and style Along with wilt and the goaltending Shaq and the 3second rules Jordan and bad(boy) flagrant fouls Lebron and the zone defense Now chef curry pull up from halfcourt with the small ball era so the nba gonna need a 4points line and count fullcourt shots for 5points Final score 230 - 88
“Steph didn’t destroy anybody in the playoffs”. Really Skip? James Harden, KD, Russ, and Dame still have nightmares about GS in the playoffs. The man is 6-0 in the WCF.
@@semionjohnson1351 Chuck was a straight choker as well in the postseason but y'all worshipped Jordan for beating him. Another easily caught on double standard bro
The GOAT debate will always be between Jordan and Lebron, everyone knows that. Skip is letting his hatred for Lebron influence his placing. Lebron is top 3, if not top 2, in EVERYONE’S ranking
@Kizzle B LMAO then I guess Kobe was horrible bc he's got 29% on go ahead shots and bron averages 29pts, 10rb, 8as, 3stls, 1block on 50% shooting in finals
To be fair Shannon does make good points I mean the closest player we have to shaq today is Giannis and he already is showing he has the drive and work ethic to keep improving his game so just imagine what shaq woulda been if he had that same drive and will to be the best I think by the time Giannis ends his career he will be looked at as the most dominant player to grace the game cuz by then he should have a more then decent 3 pt shot a good mid range game to go along with his just absolutely monster game in the paint🤷🏽♂️
That’s the thing, shaq knew what he excelled at. He knew if 3s would’ve been a bigger factor back then he would’ve practiced that. But it was just a different era where 3s weren’t really a big factor like now.
Everything that Skip says about Wilt and Russell is wrong, and he overrates Kobe and Shaq, they both had 1 MVP, and had a couple seasons where they were the league's best player, they haven't broken any NBA individual records I'm aware of neither. And, lol! I love how everyone over rates Bill Russell..Never once led his team in scoring, no finals MVP although the damn award is named after him and you would think someone with the same physical advantage over players in that era that supposedly Wilt is accused of one would assume he could atleast come close to the same success offense. Truth is he was a sh!tty offensive player..11 rings?...Never led his team in scoring? Just no. Top 10 of all time? Really? Oh but wait, we're told he locked Wilt down, but after checking that stats Wilt averaged 30 a game against him with a high of 52 points, over 40 rebounds..WTH is going on? Why do people sh!t on Wilt? Obviously these lists are media driven. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem and Lebron are the greatest NBA players to have ever laced shoes..All the other remaining 71 players on the anniversary team are about the same level..
@@colinforsecs3393 not disagreeing with you, but keep in mind those Celtics didn't win until Bill got there. They continued to Win after Cousy left. They kept winning win Bill Sharman left. If I'm not mistaken they won one more when Sam Jones left. As soon as Russell is gone they didn't even make the finals for 5 years
Every all-time great has always had other great players with them. To win rings you have to have some serious talent on the roster. Jordan had Rodman/Pippen, Lebron had Wade/Kyrie/Davis, Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq/Gasol, Curry had Klay/Green/KD. Everyone has talent with them, but the only difference now is that players have way more of a say in team building. The problem is the ever-shifting criteria. If its rings, its Russell not Jordan.
This is the worst team curry has ever been on talent based tho. Klay wasn’t even on the team for most of the year injured. But they fit together so they worked
Shaq stats 92- 23.4pts 13.9 rbs 93- 29.3pts 13.2 rbs 94- 29.3pts 11.4 rbs 95- 26.6pts 11.0 rbs 96- 26.2pts 12.5 rbs 97- 28.3pts 11.4 rbs Those are his 1st 6yrs Shaq came into the league top 5
@@HolyRan187 12?? Nah he cant shoot and he would be put in pick n rolls all game on defense and hed have to guard on the perimeter with he wouldnt be geat at! Mayb his first 5 years hed be good but not them LA years
Shaq was rookie of the year, 7th, not top 5 in mvp voting and dint even make All NBA 3rd team, made 3rd team his second year.. Tim Duncan was rookie of the year, top in 5 mvp voting, top 5 all defense voting and All NBA first team since he was a rookie. There are levels to this... I know Shaq was a beast, but he was only all defense 3 times compared to Duncans 15x... If anything Shaq underperformed based on his size and physical ability. Shaq is still in my top 10 though...
@@aaronuthayakumar1967 preach, I’m the biggest curry fan and putting magic ahead of him although I wouldn’t, it’s a respectable take but saying curry didn’t change the game it’s just hate for no reason.
The arguments Shannon is saying for Kareem and Wilt over Shaq is the same for Jordan over Lebronm more MVPs, Finals MVPs, scoring titles, steals titles, memorable moments, etc. Lebron only has MJ in longevity stats like Mailman.
I’ve read every 1 of ur comments and all of them are spot on. At this point skip is just a biased current superstar hater he doesn’t like players who are still in the league being in the top 10
We're in that dreaded time of year when the first block of the show for the next two months are going to be some version of Jordan versus Lebron. Where we hear the same stories and arguments over who is better.
I think the hugest difference between Skip's and Shannon's list is that Skip is largely basing his list off of those intangibles (i.e. clutchness or dominance) vs. Shannon is a bit of both, leaning towards stats (i.e. number of MVPS, longevity accolades). Both got their points and everyone's top 10 is going to be different. Shannon's right, at some point you gotta be nitpicking to make this list.
I like the players in skip’s list, I just don’t agree with the order. At the end of the day it’s personal preference. Stop calling Kobe the closest thing to Jordan then rank him low. Wilt is more dominant than Jordan. Jordan just had better team success because of the era he played in. Shaq definitely shouldn’t be above any of these guys as I think he kinda underachieved what should’ve been a wilt like career
@@demetriusreynolds8178 I really do wonder what Shaq’s career would look like if he stayed in his Orlando Magic shape. I really don’t see why he couldn’t have Atleast 6 rings especially with Wade as his sidekick at one point. Heck even if there was beef with Kobe imagine.
@@tielaser if he put in the same work Kobe did they should’ve never lost or at least had as many as Kareem and magic had together. Waiting for shaq to play his way into shape by playoffs was gonna catch up to him eventually.
Shannon is right about nitpicking, but he’s DEAD WRONG knocking Shaq off, especially for the reason being his lack of longevity. Shaq’s prime was more dominant than most of the people on Shannon’s list.
Shannon is right about nitpicking, but he’s DEAD WRONG knocking Shaq off, especially for the reason being his lack of longevity. Shaq’s prime was more dominant than most of the people on Shannon’s list.
Lol got ‘em. These bronsexuals don’t know what to say anymore. Remember when LeBron only had 2 rings and they were saying “if Lebron James wins one more ring then he’s already better then Jordan” 5 mins later…rings don’t matter, it’s a team achievement lmao
I get all the championships Russel has but if we’re talking about actual player skills I wouldn’t put him in the top 10. He has the hardware and I know he was more defensive than offensive but his stats just don’t hold up to everyone else. He played with a lot of HOF players in a league that was a lot weaker overall.
You do have a point. Bill Russell did play with other HOF players, but there were some HOF players already there before he got there and couldn’t win, and when Russell retired, it took like 4-5 years for Boston to win another championship with HOFs on the roster like John Havlicek and Jo Jo White. They had other great talent also.
I agree and in the same breath I can’t really put wilt ahead of him because his hardware doesn’t match the anomaly of his statistics as great as they were. I think it’s just hard to put these guys in this conversation because of the time they played. I do think they would both still be all time great players today I just don’t have a legit evaluation of the players they are compared to other greats so I respectfully have to leave them out of my top 10.
Yeah, really hard to evaluate players that far back in comparison to today’s NBA. Same goes for Wilt. He had unbelievable numbers we aren’t likely to ever see again, but the overall talent levels in the league during his time were much lower than they are today. The league is so much more athletic now, and the shooting accuracy and range is at levels I don’t think anyone in that era could have imagined. Makes it really difficult to evaluate the greats of 5+ decades ago.
He need to take Kobe off. I love Kobe but man is top 15 at best. Kobe wasn’t even the best when he played. In the early 2000s it was Shaq, mid 2000s it was Tim Duncan, and late 2000 it was a Lebron James. Ima get hate for this but it’s true
If he was a dominant player, how come he had to go team to teams to join good players to get him JUST four rings. If he was that a dominant player then he should have at least ten rings lmao
I like Shannon's list more, I can't put Shaq in the top 5 ever, he was insanely dominant for a few years, but the league created a meme strategy that took him out of the game late in games, hack a Shaq. Plus I struggle to put him ahead of the all time leader in blocks that Shaq himself even said was the greatest center of all time
And here's what I'm thinking: what's skip gonna say if Steph gets number 5? If Steph has 5, with the MVPs, the scoring titles, all that, I mean, there's gonna be talks that he'll surpass Magic. Then what? Also, you watch Steph Curry live, and let me tell you, Steph hits threes that make you feel just as helpless as shaq's physicality. I saw a game in Oracle against the sixers where Steph had 45, and deadass, he would hit a three over a double team, and both the guys guarding him would turn to their coach FURIOUS. Like, "what are we supposed to do with this? How could we possibly stop THAT?" I mean, c'mon, this is ridiculous. Steph literally just destroyed the Celtics! And he destroyed the Mavericks before that! I mean, heck, he swept the blazers in 2019 WITHOUT Kevin Durant!
@@IceMicko my god that was in 2016 the man just redeemed himself this year proving he could be the lead guy and you’re still bringing this up. Every great player besides Jordan has had a disappointing finals performance but the great ones always bounce back and that’s what Steph did, give him some credit.
When Shannon is talking about Kobe only having one MVP everybody knows that he got robbed for about two other ones because of what happened in colorado! Let's be clear one of Steve Nash's MVPs belongs to Kobe and one of Steve Nash's MVP's belongs to Shaq
@@RKO859You need to share whatever you're smoking with everyone else. Nash had no business winning either of those two MVPs. Most NBA historians even say it was a fallacy for Nash to win those two.
@@RKO859 there is no way you can be more valuable if you weren't the better player that year. By a mile. For instance you can legitimately make a case that Michael Jordan should have won MVP every year in Chicago with the exception of his second year. When he broke his damn foot. Another example... Joel embiid was clearly the MVP of the League this past year and Nikola jokic got it. The years that they gave a 16 point average player the MVP was clearly a popularity contest. The year that Shaq won MVP everybody knows that he should have been the unanimous MVP and one reporter just didn't like Shaq.
Nah...Duncan higher. He would have 6 is ray didn't make a prayer. Bill Russell is out...only avg 16 and played with all Allstars with only 8 league team.
Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest force ever.. rebounding 👑 scoring 👑 blocking 👑 greatest athlete ever.. strongest player ever.. he will always be top 5 !!!
@@asdfghjkl4384 no against basketball players you clown. Only reason they had real jobs back then is because the game wasn't popular and in order to provide for their family they had to work as we as play and practice. Wilt played against the best players at the time and destroyed his competition. Calling them plumbers is so ignorant and disrespectful. Only reason bron and mj ain't plumbers is because of us fans giving them our money. Don't be a fool. If we all quit watching they'd be plumbers too. Wouldn't discredit how good they are. It's like small sports. Like axe throwing. Dudes are unbelievable at what they do but guess what they are plumbers because ain't no money in that sport. You a clown bro
If u actually look at the average height back then, it was the same as it is now. The only difference is that players back then had less size due to nutrition and sports science not being as advanced as it is now. Wilt was on the same playing field in terms of access to training and nutrition. Yes he's a genetic freak, but he also worked alot harder than most of the nba players playing at the time. So you cant just say he "played against plumbers" stupid argument haha
@@adamskai321 sorry, you’re right. We forgot to add mailmen, ice cream truck drivers, and cashiers. Thank you Wilt for dominating the best era of basketball 🙏
Shannon was a workout warrior. The fact that Shaq was the most physically dominant player ever and was as great as he was considering his poor work ethic (relative to other nba legends) bothers him. Edit: now that I think about it, if we’re penalizing players for not maximizing their careers, logically we have to give players who did maximize their careers more credit. So is Steve Nash now a borderline top 10 player because he was a massive overachiever?
surely that should make his goat argument stronger because unlike everyone else on that list, he was no where near his potential greatness. prime universe shaq would be undisputed 10 ring winner
@@karaokekingskingdom I think it hurts it cause you think "what could've been" instead of what actually happened. Looking back and being like "Shaq could've done more" makes me feel less about him
It should bother everyone. It’s heart breaking that everyone saw that him and Kobe if they both were at their physical peaks could’ve and should’ve won double MJ’s ring count. No one expected Shaq to be as obsessively dedicated to training as Kobe (because no one was and ever will be that obsessed. Not even Jordan) but if he cared a bit more about his training, his breakup with the lakers might’ve never happened.
@@vinnythewebsurfer I guarantee you no matter how great Shaq took care of himself, they wouldn’t “double MJs ring count” with Shaq being in his late 20s by the time they 3 peated.
That logic doesn’t actually track. Something being true doesn’t the reverse of it is also true. That’s a logical fallacy. For example, “you can’t be a good NBA player without natural talent,” using your thought process every player who has natural talent should be a good NBA player. I also wouldn’t call Steve Nash an overachiever. He was just really smart. He wasn’t the most skilled and it wasn’t about his talent. He was good at running an offense because of how he studied the game.
Let's say Steph wins another MVP. He's +1300. That ties him with Magic, Larry, and Moses. Then he wins another ring and Finals MVP. Steph could leapfrog to top 5 next year! Hard to argue with that.
@@marcuscarpenter7230 I mean; in the Finals had a 4-point game, 2 5-point games; 2 8-point games; 3 12-point games and 2 13-point games. Imagine if there was First Take; Undisputed or even First things First back then and he just scored 5 in the Finals. 😂😂
Shaq is the greatest football player/tank the NBA has ever seen. Basketball player to me means elite skills in passing, shooting, dribbling, movement without the ball, court vision, leadership to make others better and determination to get the W. Steph took his pound for pound greatness and surpassed the heavyweights. Did what Iverson couldn't and won 4 rings while changing the game. Steph belongs in the top 10. Some may need time and distance to see his greatness, but we are witnessing it first hand and close up. Period.
How the non player media always puts Kobe Bryant outside the top 5 is beyond me. Most who played the game give him proper respect, especially those who played against him.
@@quintaviousanderson2897 an obvious troll, why even give him acknowledgment? His parents obviously did a terrible job raising him to have a brain wave above the level of a potato
MY TOP 10 1:Mj (class of his own) 2-5:Kareem, Kobe, Bron, Magic (all interchangeable) 6-12: Hakeem, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Wilt, Russell (all interchangeable)
@@Kdsmoovedab Nah it’s MJ and everybody else. Almost every single traditional and advance analytics says so and the eye test says so. Kobe top 5 in when comes accomplishments, longevity, eye test, and is one of the best winners of all time despite facing prolly the tuffest comp.
@@quiara25 ye I feel like even if they got an all time great pg in Steph they need another great playmaker. Undoubtedly MJ is a decent passer but I don't wanna leave it up to chance. LeBron's gravity gon be better than KD
I have him top 5 center all time. I just think the way those 5 would play together would be unbeatable, not necessarily who's better then the other but how team ball would be played.
In case anyone was curious as to what these two lists average out as: 1. MJ 2 MAGIC 3. KAREEM 4. BRON 5. DUNCAN T6. BIRD T6. RUSSEL T6. SHAQ 9. WILT 10. KOBE 11. CURRY
@@leultrainstinct406 better ball handler, better shooter, better passer. Steph just wasnt born as a 7ft and 280lbs player, if that what you means "better", then yeah.
@@tigera6 don’t respond he’s always everywhere in the comments hating on curry as soon as they lose a regular seasson game starts spammming and then when they win he stays quite
It's only disrespectufl because Curry doesn't feel like a top 10 player for many people. We WANT him to be there. But he only has 4 all nba first teams. Only 2 MVPs and only 1 finals MVP. Mediocre career stats and poor defense. Putting him in the top 10 just feels unright unless he changes that.
bron bron ditched his own city to pair up with a league top 3 NBA finals MVP to finally get his ring. This cowardly move alone excludes him from being on mt. rushmore. An opportunist should never be celebrated, it's bad for the sport
If Shaq was in his prime rn I'm pretty shur everyone in the NBA would rather have Shaq on there team over Steph,it wouldn't even be close,c'mon bruh let's be real,Shaq was scary
You are right. You put him in any era in his prime he wouid easily be the best player in the league too. Shaq in his apex is the greatest of alltime there's no debate on that. The fact he underachieved is the reason he's not.
Shaq is ALL TIME and my favourite centre of them all. But with the game as it is today? Shaq would get rinsed on the perimeter and modern bigs have to be good out there or the likes of Steph will just torch them. Also Shaq developed his game in an era where more contact was permitted. Players have an era and today's is Stephs and players like him.
@@Daz5Daz naw bruh, Shaq was on a whole different level even before his prime, he would do the same in this era. However I agree with Shannon on this, Shaq did not maximize his potential for a long duration of hid career. He should probably be 4 time mvp with 6 or 7 championships. Steph right now near the end of his prime but still playing at a very high level while maximizing his ability on and off the court with his conditioning.
If Kobe was still here, Shannon would of taken Kobe out the top 10 instead of Shaq for Steph & said more Kobe slander... Most LeBron fans/ Bronsexuals (not all but most) rank Kobe as low as possible or not on the list at all to make LeBron look good smh
@@MrGenexxx nah i think most lebron fans don’t really care about kobe it’s lebron vs mj kobe is mj but inefficient kobe is not top 5 meanwhile lebron is either 1st or 2nd the advanced stats show it mj is first in almost everything and lebron is right behind and the margin is not that much meanwhile kobe is way down the list
Bro I don’t understand the logic, for me Mj is #1 and Kobe is the closest thing to him so that’ll make him #2 all time that’s how my list start they wanna award Lebron for all them finals trip but don’t bring up jerry west with the same argument every one who I have before bron won more with less and in less time
@@raymondvankenie3106 he pass Kobe coming back 3-1 against a 73 win team you causal ,Kobe had a dominant Shaq in his prime on his team Lebron carry bums /old people yall looking like haters
skips kobe placement is the most reasonable, but honestly to me kobe is right behind MJ. Kobe beat the most 50win teams for his 2 rings, did it without shaq, second place in all nba defensive first teams.
Kobe Bryant beat more 50+ Win Teams in the Playoffs than any player in NBA HISTORY and went to 3 straight finals TWICE while winning at least 2 rings each time (only MJ has done that). 1. MJ 2. Kobe 3. Kareem 4. Magic 5. Russell 6. Duncan 7. Shaq 8. Bird 9. Lebron 10. Curry
The biggest slight to Curry is longevity and every year at 35,36 years old he has some of the best old man seasons of all time increasing that argument. Solidifying his goat case. 2 elite seasons since this came out.
You know what….I think I agree with Shannon on getting Shaq out of the top 10. Makes sense to me. He had amazing potential but he didn’t keep up sadly. At his apex nobody could beat him but maaan that decline wasn’t supposed to be THAT bad😬
Yeah he’s decline was bad. Shaq got way too comfortable making all that money, eating way too much. Man physique was scary when he was in Orlando, then when he got to the lakers it all went downhill.
I'll take Shaq at his peak vs Steph at his. Shaq didn't have the longevity but during his prime he was unstoppable. His Laker teams were the last to 3-peat in large part because of him.
@@jerrybutler4460 that’s my thing. Stephs Longevity is still going Shaq made the conscious decision to not take care of himself this shortening his NBA lifespan significantly. Shaq realistically has GOAT potential but at least for me I can’t go off what you COULDVE been otherwise people like (RIP) Len Bias should be Top 10 cause people said he was essentially better than Jordan and was going to be someone to rival him potentially it’s not the same as actually having done it. Shaqs peak was scary but you only get 3-4 years of that or 8-9 maybe 10 or more of Steph? I’ll take Steph
Honestly, in any order Shaq can never ranked higher than Kobe when he proved two without him, with him leaving getting one. Plus, how Shaq got Robbed of the MVP when Miami was wade team. Everyone knows Kobe got Robbed twice and the one he got he had to finish first in team winning in both east and west. Media always been a Kobe killer
I think they peaked at different times, Kobe wasn't as good in the first three chips as he was in the last two he won, Shaq was absolutely dominant in those three chips, and obviously Wade was the man on Shaqs fourth ring, but I think they are neck and neck on the all time list and probably towards nine and ten
Iverson was a better guard that year, he carried his no name team to the finals against Kobe, he didn't have Shaq on his team, in fact he had a bunch of mediocre talent, Iverson was straight fire that year
Shannon's Real Top 10 (off-camera) 1. Michael Jordan 2. LeBron James (admitted LeBron was #2) 3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 4. Magic Johnson 5. Wilt Chamberlain 6. Larry Bird 7. Tim Duncan 8. Bill Russell 9. Kobe Bryant 10. Steph Curry
Imo I think with in the next 20 years, I think this will be the top 8 nba players of all time (no order) and I’m basing it off of impact to the nba, and rings and championships and personal accolades throughout their career. (No order) 1. MJ 2.Kobe 3. Lebron 4. Kareem 5.steph 6. Magic 7. Bill Russell 8. Wilt
Steph has accomplishments over Shaq offensively such as breaking the record for most 3s in his career. You can consistently stop Shaq offensively with fouls forcing free throws for example or late in his career due to his out of shape state he was less effective; but Curry offensively is much more difficult to consistently stop considering he can launch a 3 from half court and nail it. Shaq has the defense over curry. Something to consider too is what Shannon said curry has changed overall how basketball is looked at 3s are far more valuable younger players are becoming sharpshooters as good as having a big man is 3 points > 2 points. Curry will always be the better offensive asset but Shaq will give more defensive value; due to Currys influence on basketball overall with pure skill not being born a 7ft1 beast like Shaq that's enough to make him worth the top 10 spot over Shaq. My opinion feel free to disagree
I disagree respectfully, people can say whatever they want about Steph he is the best shooter of all time, however he didn’t change the game how people claim at least in my eyes, when Shaq started in this league there weren’t any 3-second violations offenses didn’t really “space” the floor the way modern offenses do on every set therefore big men weren’t aloud to shoot within the offense they played down low and since there weren’t any violations for being in the paint guys like Shaq Ewing Hakeem. Could defend the basket and never be forced away from the rim and same thing offenseively. The game was CATERED to a big man post style of basketball… the biggest difference is the change of rules big guys are no longer aloud to stand right under the rim therefore it’s more be focal for them to shoot and that mixed with the fact 3’s are worth more than 2s changed the league into a more shooter centric let if fly league, if you shot a 32 foot jumper in the 90s you weren’t gonna leave the bench for a couple weeks now it’s par for the course to pull up from anywhere becuase the LEAUGE and OFFENSES changed guys are now told they need to work on their jumper regardless of size and they are taught if you have a good look let it fly now I’m not trying to diminish curry this was the perfect time in history for his skill set to be highlighted and he took every bit of that advantage the greatest shooter I’ve seen but I don’t think he changed the game other then to casual fans who began rooting for the Dubs just becuase it was “trendy”
I'll put him over Shaq but I wouldn't take Shaq out I really believe Steph got a goat argument Shaq also too I would've took out Russell 8 other hof's wilt gotta be over Russell he only had Jerry west with him going against 9 hof's all together they couldn't win that team vs 2 players
I don’t agree with either list, but Shannon’s is a lot closer to what I would have. Skip doesn’t even divulge where he has Steph. Last time round Steph wasn’t even in his top 20 because he had not shown up in the finals. Now that he has, he doesn’t say where he is now, because he had crazy stuff like Harden at 18 and Bill Walton at 15 or 16. Also Dr J and The Admiral in like 11 and 12. basically a manifesto of insanity and spite!
@@PvtShiznit Hakeem was better than Robinson. Dr. J was legitimately regarded as the BEST basketball player of the 70s and several basketball historians have him in their top 10 list so that isn't crazy. David Robinson is a top 20 player I could see, but he is DEFINITELY NOT better than Hakeem.
1. MJ 2. Bron 3. Kareem 4. Magic 5. Duncan 6. Bird 7. Kobe 8. Shaq 9. Wilt 10. Steph 11. Russel 12. Hakeem 13. KD 14. Big O 15. West Would be my top 15, but honestly at this point so long as you have MJ/Bron at 1~2, Kareem/Magic/Bird/Duncan somewhere in there your list is gucchi in my book. Not everyone values the same things in a player but I believe those 6 I mentioned shouldn't be left out no matter what, currently. As for Steph, I think he earned the right to at least be in the conversation for Top 10, as in some people will put him in there, some people won't, but definitely an improvement because I don't think anyone but his most fanatic supporters put him in there before. And Skip having Bron at 9 still gives me mild stomach pain.
@@TheMplsboy The way I see it, MJ Bron and Kareem are a notch above the rest and you'd need a serious argument not to have them as your top 3, but it's a lot more lax/interchangeable and up to personal bias for the rest, so I can't get mad at putting Kobe in the top 5, it's fair enough. What your list look like man ?
When Shannon said he didn't have Shaq in the top 10 I was like he crazy 😳. Then he said his reason why. I can't argue with that it's true if Shaq really put in the work ethic he could have had 7 or 6 rings.
That's why I got Steph at 11. I had him at 13 behind Hakeem and KD, but who can you really take out of the top 10. If he wins another he's top 6 easily
You gotta really be on something to put Tim Duncan ahead of Kobe and Lebron over MJ. If you ask me Mike and Kobe are the greatest I've ever seen with my own eyes. F what everyone else says.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Listen to Out of Character: sprtspod.fox/OOC
Jordan or LeBron in their prime? Case closed! MJ’s the GOAT.
Top 10 of the Modern Era (creation of 3pt shot, expansion of teams) 1979-Current
Jordan
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Curry
Bird
Hakeem
MICHAEL JORDAN NUMBER 1 KOBE NUMBER 2 FACTS
@@Orlando1106 is still
Everyone knows Steve Nash robbed Kobe back to back.. Shaq was in Miami playing backup behind Wade. Stop lying on national TV. But Shaq got Robbed and Kobe was what# Westbrook MVP
Shannon’s face when Skip said he had Shaq at 3rd 😭
I felt the same frfr
he had him at 2 a couple of years ago
😂 I love skip hilarious way of saying things
I think its safe to say now, the coast is clear.... I think.
Skip may have touched on this previously. Many people don't realise how bad of a player Kobe was as no 8. Meaning one dimensional, little to no defensive effort, immature court vision, non existent passing and NO intangibles. Shaq was a phenom, but Shaq also outweighed his opponent by 60+ pounds. As good as he was. Shannon sees the game only on face value without realising the depths of the game and what really wins games and championships. Like when Skip says that Giniobili was a generational innovator that Kobe learned from. Real 5 on 5 basketball. Not dribble/dribble.......... fade away- drive to the net(oh he fouled me) type of play. Kobe I am sure was a Manchurian candidate in this regard. You see his play(awful) as no 8 and you must think a high scorer on a three peat team is the best guard ever. Yet, Skip may order me to do 8 count push ups if I said this. I don't think Jordan was the goat either because he played in an era where this evolved play was less frequent.
Before Manu, how many players utilised the hammer pass for instance. Or elite passing at all? Manu wasn't the best passer ever, but he was an OG in this regard because the game evolved from that style. A style that LeBron even had to learn and has become quite adept at. Scoring is scoring, but it is that it is one aspect of the game. A great scorer is a play finisher, not a playmaker per say.
Shaq at 3? LeBron at 9?….Skips list makes me have a near heart attack every time he reads it.
Shaq at 3 is too much but lebron at 5 is a good spot behind mj and Kobe. 6 final losses eliminate him from top 3
@@Jeazzy24 Kobe ahead of lebron is a insult to common sense. The only reason he has so many finals elimination is that he can carry trash teams to the finals unlike Kobe or Jordan.
@@DestroyerOff trash teams. Lebron has played with more Hof and all stars then anyone. Get out the comment section with the nonsense cuz u don't like facts. 6 Ls eliminate u from top 3 PERIOD
@@Jeazzy24 bruh kobe wasn’t even the best performer on his team 😂😂😂dude had shaq
@@gerry9773 yet Kobe got more rings 😂😂😂😂 make it make sense. How many rings Shaq had before he got Kobe. Don't worry I'll wait 😂😂😂😂😂
I think Steph staying on the same team his whole career is under appreciated
Yup, same with Tim Duncan.
Where is he supposed to go, he had the perfect team, all star teammates amazing front office and coach, not everyone has that luxury
Magic , Kobe , Timmy, and Bird did the same thing
@@TribekaGaming Everyone says the same thing but you can say the same thing about Duncan, Jordan, Kobe, Bird and any other top player
It's over appreciated. That's a ridiculous prerequisite. Tim Duncan doesn't have remotely the same peak as Shaq and does not deserve to be higher than him. I don't care if Shaq played for 10 teams, that should not devalue anyone's career.
Shaq last to 3peat, his average in the NBA finals during the 3peat: 38.0, 33.0 and then his third 36.3. Shaq in his day absolutely unstoppable, commands a doubleteam every posession, and a lot of opposite defenders are in foul trouble. Shaq killed Tim Duncan on multiple occasions, and Duncan is a top6 player in my books. Curry is top ten player, but Shaq is not the guy you bump out.
Finally someone with SENSE. Shaq is undisputed Top 5 and he isn’t 5
No one wants to say it but tbh the guy who should get bumped is Bird. His injuries ruined his longevity which has to come into play in the all-time lists and between him and Magic I have Magic still there.
@@logandraper6271 Bird’s prime was enough to keep him on the list. 3 straight MVPs, for those years it was undisputed who the best player in the world was
@@logandraper6271 If anyons bumped its between Bird and Wilt. Wilt only has 2 chips and 4 mvps and Bird has 3 chips and 3 mvps, so it's between those two. And id personally take off Wilt before Bird cause of time Bird played in. Wilt dominated cause of his size and height but Bill was 3 inches shorter playing the same position with more rings obviously and mvps. So it really should be Wilt.
Brah Wilt Chamberlain caused the mt.everest shift in the 🏀 world. Rules change x5 to limit his dominance. He didnt dominate based off his size. He limited based on his size. He couldn't bulldoze like Shaq or Lebron. It was a charge back then. Dude athleticism is greatest prolly ever.
Bill Russell/Wilt won the same mvps when both of them were in the league. Wilt owns the record book for Playoffs and regular season. Let not even get into who Did Shaq play in the finals when he won. Washed up players who were bums. Teams was bums. Refs handed them titles.
Wilt Chamberlain is top 2
With Michael. The 🏀 world goes out of it way to suppress the real GOAT. In Wilt. The debate in the 90s and 80s was who the GOAT. WILT OR JORDAN. Even those two among all of thr players argued about it. Everyone else was bystanders
Shaq’s longevity is underrated, he averaged 20+ for 14 straight years and was an all star caliber player for a few more
So does Lebron for 19 seasons straight. He deserves a spot near Jordan
jordan lebron kareem shaq magic td kobe hakeem steph bird
thats my list
ShaQ is underrated and Kobe is overrated
@@henry7765 fr
Once I saw Shannon’s top ten on the screen I just start spamming the fast forward button to see where skip was gonna have lebron on his list 😂😂😂 I mean I knew it was gonna be low but 9???? He must be trolling us at this point 😂😂😂😂
Brons floor is 3, but honestly he isn’t first. Even if they played the same game with the same stats they have id still put Jordan first, but when Jordan played it was SO much harder to score, stack stats. The foul and ref system back then made it so much harder on offense
@@elijahsimms2992 Not true, 2000s were much harder to score due to the rule on double teams. MJ could get in isos way easier and zone defense was banned in the 90s. You either had to commit to the double or play man to man. No funneling allowed.
Skip is just speaking facts it’s Shannon That’s the problem bruh
In Jordan’s era jersey checking was legal and every time someone would go up for a shot they were allowed to yank you down by your Jersey mid shot and it wasn’t a foul. That’s mainly why I’m saying it was harder. Also people back then took more 2s, which usually translates into less points scored but that was bc Steph wasn’t in the league yet. Mainly the Jersey checking. I see what u mean though about the plays
True. Skip doesn’t like new players though. Is biased for retired players so he has lebron at I think it was 9th? And curry isn’t even over Kobe in his list. Kobe only had 1 mvp
I love Shaq but putting him top 3 greatest of all time is absolutely crazy
Edit: Being the best in your prime or having a unstoppable dominance in your prime doesn't make you great. It's like Skip when he tries make his case for Baker with that 11 game stretch, QBR 91 scale 0-100, 4th highest rated QB spiel. You have to take TOTAL BODY OF WORK not just their greatest hits/career highlights hence why Shaq can never be a top 3 greatest all time. He's not even a top 3 center all time (Kareem, Wilt, Bill)
How
4 chips 3 fmvps
It’s not, all this is subjective
@@coreyhiggins6890 1 regular season MVP tho
if you watch the best game in the peak of every great, shaq is the best, thats why they call him the most dominant ever, he was literally unstopable, but he had bad longevity so I wouldnt put him in top3, but I understand why someone else would
anytime skip talks about steph they should just cut his mic
Lmao 🤣 Fr though
stephs garabge
@@TheTonytone77 nice english
So Skip lists off Shaq accolades to make a point of why he's all time over Steph but what would he say if you did the same thing with LeBron? Having him 9th with all he's accomplished, accolades, and records with Shaq as your 3rd all time is the most blatant form of hating and contradiction I've seen.
prime shaq was unstoppable
@@moosakashif115 Shaq got sweep ALOT with penny hardway explain to me how is that possible?
@@Hi-vh5oj I don’t care mate those 5 years in the early 2000s there’s been nothing like that since wilt
Bron is def top 5 wherever you put him. I have him 3rd but I agree. Shaq is on the list just farther down. I say wilt is off now.
on top of his takes against giannis, shaq is the king of poor free throws
The thing about these lists is that everyone has different metrics. One of the biggest bring individual success vs Team Success. How great were you vs how often did you win. Wilt and Russell capture that to the extreme.
And Lebron and MJ are kinda the best of both worlds (include Kareem if you wanna) that's why they considered GOATS
Wilt only had 2 tho. He has crazy stats but Russell put the clamps in him when they met.
@@doesntmatter6453 No, he didn't LMAO. Wilt averaged Wilt Chamberlain averaged 28.0 rebounds, 25.7 points and 4.1 assists in 49 games in the playoffs versus Bill Russell
If someone is getting 25 and 28 on you, you ain't clamping him down. Not to mention, that the 55 rebound game was against Russell. Even scored 61 on him at one point
I mean, in theory Wilt and Russell embody that. If you're under 70, though, you really never saw Wilt and Bill play. There just isn't enough footage to go back and really see how it was.
Some counter-intuitive things may very well be true. There's an argument that Wilt was just putting up useless numbers early on, but when he reduced his scoring it could be arguable Wilt was actually "better" than when he was averaging 50 (in a year with the highest pace of all time and playing 48 minutes a game). I'll never know, though, because the footage is scanty to say the least.
Nowadays, simply going to the Finals is counted as an "accomplishment." Winning a title literally means nothing today unless you're Lebron.
Instead of attacking who is and isn't top 10, we need to increase the value and emphasize the importance of the top 15 or 20, the difference between 4-15 is often where the debate lies because the passage of time will add more and more great players of comparable success and talent. Everyone top 10 order is different but 90% of everyone's top 15 have the same players which is actually where the value lies.
There's ZERO consensus on 1 - 4.
ACTUAL players don't rate Lebron as highly as fans do.
@@feynmanschwingere_mc2270 and who are the many players who have backed up your claim?
You're completely right. It's so subjective between 4-15. Do you value longevity? Higher peak? Do you value defense and rebounding? Or the ability to make teammates better? The ability to orchestrate an offense? Do you value athleticism or sheer physical dominance? The ability to switch 1-5? Do you value having the clutch gene? Accolades? There are so many factors, it comes down to personal preference.
I personally don't have Curry top 10. 3 of his 4 rings were easy and heavily favored to win, and he also didn't peak until around age 26 so he doesn't have a crazy long peak compared to a lot of other players. He's also lacking athleticism and strength so he can't defend or dunk at an elite level. There is nothing wrong with saying Curry is top 12-14 and still going, that's still an unbelievable feat but ppl act like it's slandering him. He made it to top 15 while being serviceable on defense at best and peaking late, which just goes to show great his offense is. You're right that most ppl have the same top 15 and it's like splitting hairs trying to make a top 10. A lot of ppl underrate Oscar, Hakeem, Russell, Jerry West (30ppg player with elite defense), even KD could be argued considering he was superstar by age 19 so he has longevity on his side.
@@feynmanschwingere_mc2270 LeBron has a rep not easy to work with. However, LeBron can pretty much win with any very good team.
Thats why Im beginning to hate Mount Rushmores because it becomes a discussion of Who are you leaving off of it
Unc too funny “Now run tell that, you see that list, look list right there” 😂.. He makes tha show better frfr, whether it’s a serious segment/topic or a comical one, Unc always got that edge.
that's a fact
@@mybrotha8144 RIGHT? Unc too much fr lol.. Thanks Unc, a much needed laugh!! @mybrotha81 have a great day, God Bless 🙏🏽
I disagree a lot with both of their lists. As for Shannon, I didn’t rl hear an argument as to why he had Steph over shaq, he jus said shaq underachieved. And skip having Bron at 9…
Agreed. Shaq shouldn't be punished for underachieving. His resume is great. 3 fmvps, 1 mvp, scoring title. 8th all time in blocks. Top 10 in scoring and per. He should be a mainstay.
Shaq got sweep ALOT with penny hardway explain to me how is that possible?
@@Hi-vh5oj and Curry choked a 3-1 lead, Choked in 2018 what’s your point?
Thank God he rode on kobe and d wayde
@@somregularguy and Lebron chocked against Dirk when he had bosh and wade Ur Point?
there’s a lot of bias on who they’d have in there top 10, but shannon gave a clear and real explanation as to why his list is the way it is, i respect his decisions in putting players in the spots he did even if i don’t 100% agree with them
Exactly like Shannon’s top 10 was more understandable than Skips 💯
true but shaq not bein top 10 is still insane
@@kiddtiko yea but skip had em 3rd based on 4 years😂😂😂.
Skip is just a funny dude. You can’t help but to laugh when you hear him talk.
Lebron at 9 on his list lmaooo 💀
He has discredited LeBron for his poor freethrow shooting so much, but has Shaq third all time. What the f?
This list changes every year.
Steph is already better than me. He won 4 with the same team. I had to hop to Superteams to win 4 rings.
@@LarsRR right 😂😂😂😂
Can we keep it real here? As a Lakers fan during the Kobe-Shaq run, and as someone who had to sit through the loss in 2004, I am 100% with Shannon about Shaq. Was Shaq all-time TALENTED? Of course! We haven't seen anybody like him since Wilt, and they dominated in different ways. But let's not forget, Shaq was a massive liability at the free throw line. They even named a strategy after him, "hack-a-Shaq". You COULD NOT HAVE HIM ON THE FLOOR IN THE 4TH QUARTER OF CLOSE GAMES IF YOU WANTED TO WIN. Come on, do we say that about Curry? We can argue defense all day but it's clear (to me at least) that Steph has become a credible enough defender so that teams can't blatantly exploit him on that end of the floor like they exploited Shaq's weakness. Steph is still a bad individual defender but you have to worry about him in the passing lanes and he picks people's pocket on a regular basis (highest steals average per game in the 2022 Finals).
On top of that, Shannon's absolutely right. Shaq's ability fell off a cliff after he left the Lakers. Shaq did NOT have Kobe's work ethic and was famously quoted saying stupid (for a pro athlete) things like "I got hurt on company time, I'll get better on company time." OK, maybe if you want to be mediocre this makes sense, but if you want to be AMONG THE BEST IN THE WORLD this isn't quite a killer mentality. And yeah, we can argue they should have given the regular season MVP to Shaq instead of Steve Nash, but we also argue that Steph should have gotten the Finals MVP the year Iggy won it.
Overall, I think Steph has had a bigger impact on the game, was the first unanimous regular season MVP, and has shown he can win without a top tier superstar next to him. Shaq never won anything without Kobe or D Wade, both all-time great shooting guards. And Steph did this not ONCE, but TWICE without KD. So let's not pretend it's all about Shaq being bad or anything like that. No, Shaq is an all-time great player. But like Shannon said, it gets ticky-tacky as time goes on for a top 10 because there are always going to be new great players in the game, and therefore it gets more and more crowded on these all-time lists when it comes to making a case for different players. But I think Curry over Shaq isn't that hard. Yes, they couldn't stop Shaq in his era, but can anybody stop Curry in this one? In Game 6 of the Finals, wasn't Steph stepping on the logo draining 3's to close out the series? To my eyes, the only one that stops Steph on any given night is Steph (because he's cold shooting). And oh right, to stop Shaq all we have to do is foul him.
Shaq is the youngest player ever to make NBA top 50 greatest players that saying alot about Shaq how great he really was Kobe even said out his own mouth that Shaq was the most dominant player he's ever seen and played with facts
You said you were a lakers fan during their run but you say all you have to do to stop Shaq is to foul him? Obviously you weren’t really a fan if thats what you really think….
@@vinnyl264 I'm being facetious to some degree, but obviously I mean "stop him in the 4th quarter". You can't keep Shaq on the floor late in games because he's going to be fouled repeatedly and the other team will just keep taking free throws.
OBVIOUSLY Shaq is one of the all-time greats, a force of nature, and nobody could keep Shaq from going where he wanted to go on the court, including the rim. (Well, a couple of guys gave Shaq some trouble, like Yao Ming for example)
@@Qichar it’s become more and more obvious you never watched the lakers lol. They were never pulling Shaq in the 4th quarter of big time games… especially on the lakers. If you didn’t watch, just say it.
@Qichar you should have this comment published as a book. It's certainly long enough. And it's accurate. Some of the things you mentioned I had totally forgotten about. Shaq was a monster but it didn't last long enough for him to be top 10 all time. Shannons argument is well thought out while skip is using shock value. The debate is not even close.
Skip casually says Steph “underperformed in games 3, 4, 5, 6” when he played a 47 8 7 gem of a game 3 and a great game 5 where he forced a game 6
A game 6 were he played like absolute trash
Because Klay went down. It was his game. Obviously Steph had nothing left after that catastrophe.
@@beastmry injuries part of the game
If a 47 8 7 game is underperforming for a player with more than 1 mvp they’re UNARGUABLY top 10 😂
@@beastmry he had like 14 points before klay went down
Bruh Shannon’s face at 3:26 killed me 😂😂😂
😂 🤣
😂😂😂😂
😭😭😭😭 Skip hit him with some nonsense
@@buddyjaydubb you mean knowledge 😆
Shannon sharpe just stupid
Kobe at 9 is crazy, no bias
@Trendy way Because of those **** allegations lol
@Trendy way Idc if he only had 1 mvp, Guy has 15 all nba selections, 9 of em being first team, and was also 9 times first team all defense, 12 selections. He above bird and Duncan.
@Trendy way nah it had everything to do with that case and everyone knows Nash didnt deserve those. Kobe and Shaq should've got 1 each of those. This is also why you can't go by stats alone to know who was actually nice like that on the court. One of those seasons Kobe avg like 35 a game and had an insane run of like a month plus of scoring 60 and 50 every damn game! Insane numbers that Nash didnt even come close to.
@@ilyasaden2900 he's definitely above bird but Duncan? Nah
@Trendy way Why you talking to me about curry, I said kobe over duncan my guy.
I agree with both of them. Shaq is fosho higher than 10 just not quite 3 and like Shannon said, Lebron is 3 at worst. Its always interesting to see where people put Wilt and Russell. Plus personally, if Curry wins another championship he goes from 11 to 7 on my list. If he wins two more it really starts to get interesting. And I think he’ll play another 6-8 years and the Warriors have a smart front office, definitely possible.
So are you judging by the amount of championships players have,well if so Bill is number 1.Everyone has their own list so its all about opinions.I would say Wilt is most underrated and so is Dr.J and Karl Malone
@@glenroybrathwaite1531 Rings have like 50% influence in rankings. So Steph's ranking will always rise every time he wins a championship. But rings arent everything that's why no one thinks Robert horry was one of the greatest. Also Bill Russel's championships should be valued less since it was in an 8 team league.
This is one of the only sports talk shows I still watch. Love these two.
They are horrendous. Kobe Bryant #10 and Shaq not even top 10? What a joke!
@@nighthawk9915 it’s accurate tbh
@@virokami5469 guess that 3peat they had means nothing
Shannon: "You a hater."
Lmaoooo the way he just stops trying to reason with Skip has me rolling.
That’s what I’ve been trying to tell people Shannon sharpe is crazy
My Picks..
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Shaquille O’Neal
12. Stephen Curry
Just list is pretty accurate 👌
List solid asf
Shaq and steph should be in the 10
Excellent list
Bruhh how you got Bill at 5?💀💀💀
Curry is amongst top 10 who changed nba rules and style
Along with wilt and the goaltending
Shaq and the 3second rules
Jordan and bad(boy) flagrant fouls
Lebron and the zone defense
Now chef curry pull up from halfcourt with the small ball era so the nba gonna need a 4points line and count fullcourt shots for 5points
Final score 230 - 88
You forgot Wilt. Many rules were changed to stop him from dominating even more.
Lebron didn’t changed how the game is played
“Steph didn’t destroy anybody in the playoffs”. Really Skip? James Harden, KD, Russ, and Dame still have nightmares about GS in the playoffs. The man is 6-0 in the WCF.
All those players besides KD are choke artists in the playoffs so those feats aren’t as impressive as you make it seem
@@semionjohnson1351 Chuck was a straight choker as well in the postseason but y'all worshipped Jordan for beating him. Another easily caught on double standard bro
kd destroy james harden and steph didn't destroy kd wesbrook was wack
Steph always choked before this year.. Learn basketball
"Judy Clarkson" nah chick wasn't a choke artist
Skip got the most bs top 10 list I ever saw he's talking about Steph not over Shaq due to achievements but this man got Lebron at 9 🤦🏾♂️
@Kizzle B the biggest hater stat I have seen in my life
The GOAT debate will always be between Jordan and Lebron, everyone knows that. Skip is letting his hatred for Lebron influence his placing. Lebron is top 3, if not top 2, in EVERYONE’S ranking
Top 3 not top 2
@Kizzle B LMAO then I guess Kobe was horrible bc he's got 29% on go ahead shots and bron averages 29pts, 10rb, 8as, 3stls, 1block on 50% shooting in finals
Shannon takes out Shaq and has Jordan at #2 but you're complaining about skips list? Lol gtfoh.
To be fair Shannon does make good points I mean the closest player we have to shaq today is Giannis and he already is showing he has the drive and work ethic to keep improving his game so just imagine what shaq woulda been if he had that same drive and will to be the best I think by the time Giannis ends his career he will be looked at as the most dominant player to grace the game cuz by then he should have a more then decent 3 pt shot a good mid range game to go along with his just absolutely monster game in the paint🤷🏽♂️
Nothing alike
Steph is 11-15
That’s the thing, shaq knew what he excelled at. He knew if 3s would’ve been a bigger factor back then he would’ve practiced that. But it was just a different era where 3s weren’t really a big factor like now.
Everything that Skip says about Wilt and Russell is wrong, and he overrates Kobe and Shaq, they both had 1 MVP, and had a couple seasons where they were the league's best player, they haven't broken any NBA individual records I'm aware of neither. And, lol! I love how everyone over rates Bill Russell..Never once led his team in scoring, no finals MVP although the damn award is named after him and you would think someone with the same physical advantage over players in that era that supposedly Wilt is accused of one would assume he could atleast come close to the same success offense. Truth is he was a sh!tty offensive player..11 rings?...Never led his team in scoring? Just no. Top 10 of all time? Really? Oh but wait, we're told he locked Wilt down, but after checking that stats Wilt averaged 30 a game against him with a high of 52 points, over 40 rebounds..WTH is going on? Why do people sh!t on Wilt? Obviously these lists are media driven. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem and Lebron are the greatest NBA players to have ever laced shoes..All the other remaining 71 players on the anniversary team are about the same level..
@@colinforsecs3393 not disagreeing with you, but keep in mind those Celtics didn't win until Bill got there. They continued to Win after Cousy left. They kept winning win Bill Sharman left. If I'm not mistaken they won one more when Sam Jones left. As soon as Russell is gone they didn't even make the finals for 5 years
Every all-time great has always had other great players with them. To win rings you have to have some serious talent on the roster. Jordan had Rodman/Pippen, Lebron had Wade/Kyrie/Davis, Shaq had Kobe, Kobe had Shaq/Gasol, Curry had Klay/Green/KD. Everyone has talent with them, but the only difference now is that players have way more of a say in team building.
The problem is the ever-shifting criteria. If its rings, its Russell not Jordan.
No one ever said it was rings. It’s a balance of everything and Jordan had the best balance.
Those are the only star players LeBron had? 😂😂😂
@@lordaizen2192 just about unless you trying to mention Bosh. I dont consider Kevin Love a real star tbh
This is the worst team curry has ever been on talent based tho. Klay wasn’t even on the team for most of the year injured. But they fit together so they worked
@@elijahsimms2992 I feel like this was the year where the future was on display while Curry still lead the team.
Shaq stats
92- 23.4pts 13.9 rbs
93- 29.3pts 13.2 rbs
94- 29.3pts 11.4 rbs
95- 26.6pts 11.0 rbs
96- 26.2pts 12.5 rbs
97- 28.3pts 11.4 rbs
Those are his 1st 6yrs
Shaq came into the league top 5
If he played in todays game you can add 12 more points for every year
Hakeem still gave him them buckets
But he folded against the rockets when Jordan left
@@HolyRan187 12?? Nah he cant shoot and he would be put in pick n rolls all game on defense and hed have to guard on the perimeter with he wouldnt be geat at! Mayb his first 5 years hed be good but not them LA years
Shaq was rookie of the year, 7th, not top 5 in mvp voting and dint even make All NBA 3rd team, made 3rd team his second year..
Tim Duncan was rookie of the year, top in 5 mvp voting, top 5 all defense voting and All NBA first team since he was a rookie. There are levels to this... I know Shaq was a beast, but he was only all defense 3 times compared to Duncans 15x... If anything Shaq underperformed based on his size and physical ability. Shaq is still in my top 10 though...
I'd say Hakeem is top 10. His back to back chips with a lackluster supporting cast is too underrated
I love the dream but we all know that if Michael wasn't forced into retirement Houston would have gotten denied
1995 Rockets had Drexler, who was 2nd in MVP voting in 1992
@@Stevenirons lol then he would never have won 8 straight. I can guarantee you that
@@Stevenirons that's not something completely certain. Besides if you quit/retire than that's on you.
@@vincetaliaferro2777 he didn't quite or retire he was forced out because of his gambling problem
Really interesting take on Shaq by Shannon. But it's funny how Steph not only changed the game, he's changing the requirements to be in the Top 10.
Funny how steph hasnt actually done any of those things
No hes not.. meat licker
@@deangeloj4349 you dont think he changed the game? just say you dont know ball
@@aaronuthayakumar1967 preach, I’m the biggest curry fan and putting magic ahead of him although I wouldn’t, it’s a respectable take but saying curry didn’t change the game it’s just hate for no reason.
Looking back I find it kinda ironic how the best 1-2 combo are really maybe the only 2 you have to choose from to take out of the top 10.
The arguments Shannon is saying for Kareem and Wilt over Shaq is the same for Jordan over Lebronm more MVPs, Finals MVPs, scoring titles, steals titles, memorable moments, etc. Lebron only has MJ in longevity stats like Mailman.
I’ve read every 1 of ur comments and all of them are spot on. At this point skip is just a biased current superstar hater he doesn’t like players who are still in the league being in the top 10
Shannon really the only 1 who makes sense on this show
Not when it comes to his Brady hate or Jordan hate
James has more RPG, more APG, more BPG, higher 3P%, etc
@@SagaTheFunniest You mean you read him spamming for likes?
We're in that dreaded time of year when the first block of the show for the next two months are going to be some version of Jordan versus Lebron. Where we hear the same stories and arguments over who is better.
Yea because headasses like Shannon putting Bron over the GOAT
Lebron at #9 is incomprehensible. There's no way he's anything but top 2-3.
has that Peyton Manning syndrome
He has 2 chip
He is more like between 3 and 6
#4 for me
2nd
Give Kobe some damn respect
Top 5. He’s better than magic, bird and Duncan.
@@thegreat195kobe is not better then Tim Duncan or Bird
@@tayshaunmoney4621 he is absolutely better than both of them.
@@thegreat195 no he's not not all time
yes he is. Kobe used to destroy Duncan in the playoffs.@@tayshaunmoney4621
I think the hugest difference between Skip's and Shannon's list is that Skip is largely basing his list off of those intangibles (i.e. clutchness or dominance) vs. Shannon is a bit of both, leaning towards stats (i.e. number of MVPS, longevity accolades).
Both got their points and everyone's top 10 is going to be different. Shannon's right, at some point you gotta be nitpicking to make this list.
I like the players in skip’s list, I just don’t agree with the order. At the end of the day it’s personal preference. Stop calling Kobe the closest thing to Jordan then rank him low. Wilt is more dominant than Jordan. Jordan just had better team success because of the era he played in. Shaq definitely shouldn’t be above any of these guys as I think he kinda underachieved what should’ve been a wilt like career
@@demetriusreynolds8178 I really do wonder what Shaq’s career would look like if he stayed in his Orlando Magic shape. I really don’t see why he couldn’t have Atleast 6 rings especially with Wade as his sidekick at one point. Heck even if there was beef with Kobe imagine.
@@tielaser if he put in the same work Kobe did they should’ve never lost or at least had as many as Kareem and magic had together. Waiting for shaq to play his way into shape by playoffs was gonna catch up to him eventually.
Shannon is right about nitpicking, but he’s DEAD WRONG knocking Shaq off, especially for the reason being his lack of longevity. Shaq’s prime was more dominant than most of the people on Shannon’s list.
Shannon is right about nitpicking, but he’s DEAD WRONG knocking Shaq off, especially for the reason being his lack of longevity. Shaq’s prime was more dominant than most of the people on Shannon’s list.
Going off of shannon's logic, jordan should be 1. He has more awards
Lol got ‘em. These bronsexuals don’t know what to say anymore. Remember when LeBron only had 2 rings and they were saying “if Lebron James wins one more ring then he’s already better then Jordan” 5 mins later…rings don’t matter, it’s a team achievement lmao
@@ramonfernandez9902 keep crying lmao
@@POKEFAN023 what’s your top 10
@@POKEFAN023 your a causal Lebron carry bums and broken/olds people
@@LYDD. my list
MJ
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Russell
Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Steph
Shaq got bump off my list
3:13 skips usage of “all-time” along with Shannon’s face is all-time comedy
I get all the championships Russel has but if we’re talking about actual player skills I wouldn’t put him in the top 10. He has the hardware and I know he was more defensive than offensive but his stats just don’t hold up to everyone else. He played with a lot of HOF players in a league that was a lot weaker overall.
facts alot of people don't realize that
You do have a point. Bill Russell did play with other HOF players, but there were some HOF players already there before he got there and couldn’t win, and when Russell retired, it took like 4-5 years for Boston to win another championship with HOFs on the roster like John Havlicek and Jo Jo White. They had other great talent also.
I agree
I agree and in the same breath I can’t really put wilt ahead of him because his hardware doesn’t match the anomaly of his statistics as great as they were. I think it’s just hard to put these guys in this conversation because of the time they played. I do think they would both still be all time great players today I just don’t have a legit evaluation of the players they are compared to other greats so I respectfully have to leave them out of my top 10.
Yeah, really hard to evaluate players that far back in comparison to today’s NBA. Same goes for Wilt. He had unbelievable numbers we aren’t likely to ever see again, but the overall talent levels in the league during his time were much lower than they are today. The league is so much more athletic now, and the shooting accuracy and range is at levels I don’t think anyone in that era could have imagined. Makes it really difficult to evaluate the greats of 5+ decades ago.
Shannon got Shaq to low and Skip got him to high smh... I got him in like 7-8
I mean, it's aubjective so I'll at least respect their lists.
I agree with you since 2003 Shaq's been between 7-10
I get why Shannon puts Lebron at #1. That's his guy, but bumping Shaq out of the top 10 is blasphemous
Who are you taking out of Shannon's top 10?
I would take Larry bird out for shaq
@@MrDetectiveCraig what….
@@MrDetectiveCraig the disrespect continues smh
He need to take Kobe off. I love Kobe but man is top 15 at best. Kobe wasn’t even the best when he played. In the early 2000s it was Shaq, mid 2000s it was Tim Duncan, and late 2000 it was a Lebron James. Ima get hate for this but it’s true
This one of them segments we’ll be seeing in our recommendations for years to come
I like the respect for bird one of my favorite players of all time
So what
@@Ratchetface bird had numerous games scoring under double digits in the finals. He's a choker
I do too, but LeBron is the best SF ever, that puts him above Bird
@@Chr1ShawnKPD yeah but I like bird more because of his trash talking
@@maliprince8703 yea but he never went 0 for 9 from 3 & he never went crying for help after losing to Magic.
Steph knocking Shaq out the top 10 is ridiculous. 3 FMVPS and 4 Rings, most dominant big man ever.
Facts
Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant big man ever, the numbers tell you that. Shaq was great, but not as dominant as Wilt.
@@jlv3x Wilt did this in an era where he had no equal though. But one could say the same during his dominant run in the early 2000s
@@jlv3x The higher wilt scored the worse his team performed the less shot volume he had the more team success he had that should say enough
If he was a dominant player, how come he had to go team to teams to join good players to get him JUST four rings. If he was that a dominant player then he should have at least ten rings lmao
2 small mistakes by Shannon- Steph is 34, not 32 and Curry is II not Jr
Wait. There’s a difference between the ll and a Jr.?
@@kev792 yep, Gary Payton II is on the warriors whereas Gary Payton jr isn’t
@@hr5935 feel good schooling dummies huh ?
@@kev792 it means exactly the same thing, exactly. It's a matter of preference
Jr means the second .
I like Shannon's list more, I can't put Shaq in the top 5 ever, he was insanely dominant for a few years, but the league created a meme strategy that took him out of the game late in games, hack a Shaq. Plus I struggle to put him ahead of the all time leader in blocks that Shaq himself even said was the greatest center of all time
Let's get top 25 from now on. Its too many great players.
And here's what I'm thinking: what's skip gonna say if Steph gets number 5? If Steph has 5, with the MVPs, the scoring titles, all that, I mean, there's gonna be talks that he'll surpass Magic. Then what?
Also, you watch Steph Curry live, and let me tell you, Steph hits threes that make you feel just as helpless as shaq's physicality. I saw a game in Oracle against the sixers where Steph had 45, and deadass, he would hit a three over a double team, and both the guys guarding him would turn to their coach FURIOUS. Like, "what are we supposed to do with this? How could we possibly stop THAT?" I mean, c'mon, this is ridiculous. Steph literally just destroyed the Celtics! And he destroyed the Mavericks before that! I mean, heck, he swept the blazers in 2019 WITHOUT Kevin Durant!
Steph still get no love. They just turn a blind eye to greatness
And he managed to drop 3:1 lead while playing in the team that went 73:9 in RS.
KD joined a team that was already gonna win the finals facts
@@IceMicko my god that was in 2016 the man just redeemed himself this year proving he could be the lead guy and you’re still bringing this up. Every great player besides Jordan has had a disappointing finals performance but the great ones always bounce back and that’s what Steph did, give him some credit.
@@Capb25 MJ never hat that bad performance in 3 consecutive games at all, let alone 3 consecutive games in finals
Who wants to bet in this segment skip will say "It's unlike anything I've seen before"
When Shannon is talking about Kobe only having one MVP everybody knows that he got robbed for about two other ones because of what happened in colorado! Let's be clear one of Steve Nash's MVPs belongs to Kobe and one of Steve Nash's MVP's belongs to Shaq
Cry more. Should of would of. Nash was clearly more valuable to his team than Shaq and Kobe.
@@RKO859You need to share whatever you're smoking with everyone else. Nash had no business winning either of those two MVPs. Most NBA historians even say it was a fallacy for Nash to win those two.
@@RKO859 cry more lebron has 6 finals losses. 😂💀
@@RKO859 🤡
@@RKO859 there is no way you can be more valuable if you weren't the better player that year. By a mile. For instance you can legitimately make a case that Michael Jordan should have won MVP every year in Chicago with the exception of his second year. When he broke his damn foot. Another example... Joel embiid was clearly the MVP of the League this past year and Nikola jokic got it. The years that they gave a 16 point average player the MVP was clearly a popularity contest. The year that Shaq won MVP everybody knows that he should have been the unanimous MVP and one reporter just didn't like Shaq.
My top 10
1 MJ
2 Lebron
3 Kareem
4 Wilt
5 Magic
6 Kobe
7 Curry
8 Russell
9 Duncan
10 Bird
Nah...Duncan higher. He would have 6 is ray didn't make a prayer. Bill Russell is out...only avg 16 and played with all Allstars with only 8 league team.
My top 10
1 MJ
2 Lebron
3 Kareem
4 Duncan
5 Kobe
6 Bird
7 Curry
8 Magic
9 Russell
10 Shaq
Timmy gotta be higher then Kobe and Curry fs
Horrible list😂
U have wilt over magic kobe curry shaq duncan lmao
Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest force ever.. rebounding 👑 scoring 👑 blocking 👑 greatest athlete ever.. strongest player ever.. he will always be top 5 !!!
🤡🤡
Against plumbers 😂😂😂
@@asdfghjkl4384 no against basketball players you clown. Only reason they had real jobs back then is because the game wasn't popular and in order to provide for their family they had to work as we as play and practice. Wilt played against the best players at the time and destroyed his competition. Calling them plumbers is so ignorant and disrespectful. Only reason bron and mj ain't plumbers is because of us fans giving them our money. Don't be a fool. If we all quit watching they'd be plumbers too. Wouldn't discredit how good they are. It's like small sports. Like axe throwing. Dudes are unbelievable at what they do but guess what they are plumbers because ain't no money in that sport. You a clown bro
If u actually look at the average height back then, it was the same as it is now. The only difference is that players back then had less size due to nutrition and sports science not being as advanced as it is now. Wilt was on the same playing field in terms of access to training and nutrition. Yes he's a genetic freak, but he also worked alot harder than most of the nba players playing at the time. So you cant just say he "played against plumbers" stupid argument haha
@@adamskai321 sorry, you’re right. We forgot to add mailmen, ice cream truck drivers, and cashiers. Thank you Wilt for dominating the best era of basketball 🙏
3:26 Shannon's face 😭😭
18:46 "But ol goat, there's somethin' about ol goat" 😆
Shannon was a workout warrior. The fact that Shaq was the most physically dominant player ever and was as great as he was considering his poor work ethic (relative to other nba legends) bothers him.
Edit: now that I think about it, if we’re penalizing players for not maximizing their careers, logically we have to give players who did maximize their careers more credit. So is Steve Nash now a borderline top 10 player because he was a massive overachiever?
surely that should make his goat argument stronger because unlike everyone else on that list, he was no where near his potential greatness. prime universe shaq would be undisputed 10 ring winner
@@karaokekingskingdom I think it hurts it cause you think "what could've been" instead of what actually happened. Looking back and being like "Shaq could've done more" makes me feel less about him
It should bother everyone. It’s heart breaking that everyone saw that him and Kobe if they both were at their physical peaks could’ve and should’ve won double MJ’s ring count. No one expected Shaq to be as obsessively dedicated to training as Kobe (because no one was and ever will be that obsessed. Not even Jordan) but if he cared a bit more about his training, his breakup with the lakers might’ve never happened.
@@vinnythewebsurfer I guarantee you no matter how great Shaq took care of himself, they wouldn’t “double MJs ring count” with Shaq being in his late 20s by the time they 3 peated.
That logic doesn’t actually track. Something being true doesn’t the reverse of it is also true. That’s a logical fallacy.
For example, “you can’t be a good NBA player without natural talent,” using your thought process every player who has natural talent should be a good NBA player.
I also wouldn’t call Steve Nash an overachiever. He was just really smart. He wasn’t the most skilled and it wasn’t about his talent. He was good at running an offense because of how he studied the game.
Let's say Steph wins another MVP. He's +1300. That ties him with Magic, Larry, and Moses. Then he wins another ring and Finals MVP. Steph could leapfrog to top 5 next year! Hard to argue with that.
Durant won him 2 rings. Just how it hurt Durants legacy , it also hurts Curry.
@@eefdatalk kobe, bird, magic, kareem, duncan, shaq etc. all have titles in which another player outperformed them
jesus christ stop it
@@eefdatalk no he didn’t
Go to Basketball reference for the series statistics
Yup if that happens he leaping passes Duncan , bird and wilt on my list if he achieve this
Shannon’s list is pretty fair imo. Only thing i’d change is swapping MJ and Lebron for 1 and 2 and Bill and Wilt for 5 and 8.
Yeah... about right
I agree tho you but I don’t think wilt top 10 he not a good finals performer
And move up Steph to 9 and Kobe to 10.
Prime Hakeem Olajuwon gets no respect.
@@marcuscarpenter7230 I mean; in the Finals had a 4-point game, 2 5-point games; 2 8-point games; 3 12-point games and 2 13-point games. Imagine if there was First Take; Undisputed or even First things First back then and he just scored 5 in the Finals. 😂😂
Shaq is the greatest football player/tank the NBA has ever seen. Basketball player to me means elite skills in passing, shooting, dribbling, movement without the ball, court vision, leadership to make others better and determination to get the W. Steph took his pound for pound greatness and surpassed the heavyweights. Did what Iverson couldn't and won 4 rings while changing the game. Steph belongs in the top 10. Some may need time and distance to see his greatness, but we are witnessing it first hand and close up. Period.
Did Iverson have KD, Iggy and Klay?
How the non player media always puts Kobe Bryant outside the top 5 is beyond me. Most who played the game give him proper respect, especially those who played against him.
He’s #4 on my list.
Hes not evem top 20 stop talking
@@alexmotts Who not top 20
@@quintaviousanderson2897 an obvious troll, why even give him acknowledgment? His parents obviously did a terrible job raising him to have a brain wave above the level of a potato
@@quintaviousanderson2897
His mom clearly 😂
Skip face when he said he bumped Shaq out 😂
MY TOP 10
1:Mj (class of his own)
2-5:Kareem, Kobe, Bron, Magic (all interchangeable)
6-12: Hakeem, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Wilt, Russell (all interchangeable)
Best list better to put them in teirs
Tier 1 is Lebron and MJ
And Kobe is not top 5
@@Kdsmoovedab Nah it’s MJ and everybody else. Almost every single traditional and advance analytics says so and the eye test says so. Kobe top 5 in when comes accomplishments, longevity, eye test, and is one of the best winners of all time despite facing prolly the tuffest comp.
@@isaacsmith3901 maybe every scoring stat. If we talking overall statistics LeBron is in a class of his own.
@@isaacsmith3901 That's just false the advanced stats are pretty even with some favoring Bron
Shaq was dominant player for 10 years, from 1993 to 2003 he was a superstar
Best starting five ever, would never lose
Steph
Mj
Kd
Duncan
Hakeem
Imagine steph getting picked up at half court leaving KD and MJ to roam free
KD over Bron? This sounds emotional…
@Jajajaja Jajajaja Then won 3 NBA championships and won finals MVP
Say you just started watching the NBA without saying it 😂
@@quiara25 ye I feel like even if they got an all time great pg in Steph they need another great playmaker. Undoubtedly MJ is a decent passer but I don't wanna leave it up to chance. LeBron's gravity gon be better than KD
I have him top 5 center all time. I just think the way those 5 would play together would be unbeatable, not necessarily who's better then the other but how team ball would be played.
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Wilt
9. Bill Russell
10. Curry
I don’t have a problem with Kareem above LeBron. I like your top 3.
I respect this list
Yo list trash. Kobe and Tim Duncan not in no top 5 stop it
@@KellsLaFlare my list is pretty accurate. Who would you replace for both of them? I’m curious on your take 🤨
Bird over Shaq
In case anyone was curious as to what these two lists average out as:
1. MJ
2 MAGIC
3. KAREEM
4. BRON
5. DUNCAN
T6. BIRD
T6. RUSSEL
T6. SHAQ
9. WILT
10. KOBE
11. CURRY
Really hard for me to compare Steph to Hakeem/Shaq, just totally different positions and players
Ain’t no way curry is better than either💀💀
@@leultrainstinct406 better ball handler, better shooter, better passer. Steph just wasnt born as a 7ft and 280lbs player, if that what you means "better", then yeah.
@@tigera6 don’t respond he’s always everywhere in the comments hating on curry as soon as they lose a regular seasson game starts spammming and then when they win he stays quite
@@cursin he’s been doing this for awhile now huhh still doing it these playoffs 🤣🤣
@@willjohnwick6911he a Steph hater
At the end of the day no matter who gets moved out the top 10 someone is getting disrespected. That’s why it’s hard to do these list.
It's only disrespectufl because Curry doesn't feel like a top 10 player for many people. We WANT him to be there. But he only has 4 all nba first teams. Only 2 MVPs and only 1 finals MVP. Mediocre career stats and poor defense. Putting him in the top 10 just feels unright unless he changes that.
@@x-man9473 cap
@@jcupgif You clearly don't even know what the definition of cap is. lol
Lbj at 9th is crazy 🤣
He is nr 1
bron bron ditched his own city to pair up with a league top 3 NBA finals MVP to finally get his ring. This cowardly move alone excludes him from being on mt. rushmore. An opportunist should never be celebrated, it's bad for the sport
If Shaq was in his prime rn I'm pretty shur everyone in the NBA would rather have Shaq on there team over Steph,it wouldn't even be close,c'mon bruh let's be real,Shaq was scary
You are right. You put him in any era in his prime he wouid easily be the best player in the league too. Shaq in his apex is the greatest of alltime there's no debate on that. The fact he underachieved is the reason he's not.
Shaq is ALL TIME and my favourite centre of them all. But with the game as it is today? Shaq would get rinsed on the perimeter and modern bigs have to be good out there or the likes of Steph will just torch them. Also Shaq developed his game in an era where more contact was permitted.
Players have an era and today's is Stephs and players like him.
@@Daz5Daz give me prime shaq ill destroy your small ball
@@Daz5Daz naw bruh, Shaq was on a whole different level even before his prime, he would do the same in this era. However I agree with Shannon on this, Shaq did not maximize his potential for a long duration of hid career. He should probably be 4 time mvp with 6 or 7 championships. Steph right now near the end of his prime but still playing at a very high level while maximizing his ability on and off the court with his conditioning.
Anyone who picks curry over shaq to build around is just stupid. Plain and simple. Shaq was arguably most dominant player ever
One of the greatest segments ever😭😭
Shannon’s list 🤦♂️Lebron at 1 and Kobe at 9 is crazy.
If Kobe was still here, Shannon would of taken Kobe out the top 10 instead of Shaq for Steph & said more Kobe slander...
Most LeBron fans/ Bronsexuals (not all but most) rank Kobe as low as possible or not on the list at all to make LeBron look good smh
They insecure cause deep down they know Kobe better than Lebron.
@@MrGenexxx nah i think most lebron fans don’t really care about kobe it’s lebron vs mj kobe is mj but inefficient kobe is not top 5 meanwhile lebron is either 1st or 2nd the advanced stats show it mj is first in almost everything and lebron is right behind and the margin is not that much meanwhile kobe is way down the list
Bro I don’t understand the logic, for me Mj is #1 and Kobe is the closest thing to him so that’ll make him #2 all time that’s how my list start they wanna award Lebron for all them finals trip but don’t bring up jerry west with the same argument every one who I have before bron won more with less and in less time
Bruh the media leapfrogged Lebron over kobe to boost the mj debate when in fact he ain’t past kobe yet all time
@@raymondvankenie3106 he pass Kobe coming back 3-1 against a 73 win team you causal ,Kobe had a dominant Shaq in his prime on his team Lebron carry bums /old people yall looking like haters
If anything Curry should replace Bird on that list, but also be at #10. How do you leave out Shaq from the top 10 Shannon? Wtf 😑
Wilt
Regular season player
Are you dumb? Bird was an alpha dog. Curry is a wimp compared to Larry. Larry is curry if he had a killer mentality
Bird is not coming out anytime soon. The 9-season stretch he was healthy was better than the careers of 99.9999% of players including Hall of Famers.
skips kobe placement is the most reasonable, but honestly to me kobe is right behind MJ. Kobe beat the most 50win teams for his 2 rings, did it without shaq, second place in all nba defensive first teams.
Steph is 34, not 32 - that's a big difference in terms of what he might accomplish in the future.
Kobe Bryant beat more 50+ Win Teams in the Playoffs than any player in NBA HISTORY and went to 3 straight finals TWICE while winning at least 2 rings each time (only MJ has done that).
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Lebron
10. Curry
They don’t know wanna talk about Kobe like that. They have to have have their own narrative for their golden boy
I second It
Your list sucks and it's in q ridiculous order
Huge fan of Shannon but sometimes I’m embarrassed for him when it comes to his Lebron bias. 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
FACTS 💯 Bro
💯💯💯💯
Bro he’s just a fan of him lol.
Better to have Lebron at 1 than at 9
Lebron at 1 isn’t crazy he has a legit case he’s at 2 for me but 9 is even crazier
The biggest slight to Curry is longevity and every year at 35,36 years old he has some of the best old man seasons of all time increasing that argument. Solidifying his goat case. 2 elite seasons since this came out.
Bro these lists be killing me with Kobe anything above 3 , did y’all forget that soon?
You know what….I think I agree with Shannon on getting Shaq out of the top 10. Makes sense to me. He had amazing potential but he didn’t keep up sadly. At his apex nobody could beat him but maaan that decline wasn’t supposed to be THAT bad😬
Yeah he’s decline was bad. Shaq got way too comfortable making all that money, eating way too much. Man physique was scary when he was in Orlando, then when he got to the lakers it all went downhill.
I'll take Shaq at his peak vs Steph at his. Shaq didn't have the longevity but during his prime he was unstoppable. His Laker teams were the last to 3-peat in large part because of him.
@@jerrybutler4460 that’s my thing. Stephs Longevity is still going Shaq made the conscious decision to not take care of himself this shortening his NBA lifespan significantly. Shaq realistically has GOAT potential but at least for me I can’t go off what you COULDVE been otherwise people like (RIP) Len Bias should be Top 10 cause people said he was essentially better than Jordan and was going to be someone to rival him potentially it’s not the same as actually having done it. Shaqs peak was scary but you only get 3-4 years of that or 8-9 maybe 10 or more of Steph? I’ll take Steph
He 3 peated with Kobe. No way he should ever be out of the top 10.
Shaq is the most dominate player of the modern era. He's top ten easy.
Skip cherry picks so much 😂. “Steph finally got a finals MVP but he really blew game one”
2:09, Curry won it at 34 not 32 but that just strengthens his point
Skip must be paid to troll, he is outrageous
Honestly, in any order Shaq can never ranked higher than Kobe when he proved two without him, with him leaving getting one. Plus, how Shaq got Robbed of the MVP when Miami was wade team. Everyone knows Kobe got Robbed twice and the one he got he had to finish first in team winning in both east and west. Media always been a Kobe killer
True
I think they peaked at different times, Kobe wasn't as good in the first three chips as he was in the last two he won, Shaq was absolutely dominant in those three chips, and obviously Wade was the man on Shaqs fourth ring, but I think they are neck and neck on the all time list and probably towards nine and ten
@@jweezy5490 during his first thee chips, in the NBA name a better 2 guard. Plus during the hack a Shaq, who kept the team a float.
@@jasoncollie1731 Shaq was the best player on that team, Kobe was good but so was their entire bench
Iverson was a better guard that year, he carried his no name team to the finals against Kobe, he didn't have Shaq on his team, in fact he had a bunch of mediocre talent, Iverson was straight fire that year
Shannon's Real Top 10 (off-camera)
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James (admitted LeBron was #2)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
8. Bill Russell
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Steph Curry
you can't change his list
Imo I think with in the next 20 years, I think this will be the top 8 nba players of all time (no order) and I’m basing it off of impact to the nba, and rings and championships and personal accolades throughout their career. (No order)
1. MJ
2.Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Kareem
5.steph
6. Magic
7. Bill Russell
8. Wilt
Steph has accomplishments over Shaq offensively such as breaking the record for most 3s in his career. You can consistently stop Shaq offensively with fouls forcing free throws for example or late in his career due to his out of shape state he was less effective; but Curry offensively is much more difficult to consistently stop considering he can launch a 3 from half court and nail it. Shaq has the defense over curry.
Something to consider too is what Shannon said curry has changed overall how basketball is looked at 3s are far more valuable younger players are becoming sharpshooters as good as having a big man is 3 points > 2 points. Curry will always be the better offensive asset but Shaq will give more defensive value; due to Currys influence on basketball overall with pure skill not being born a 7ft1 beast like Shaq that's enough to make him worth the top 10 spot over Shaq. My opinion feel free to disagree
I disagree respectfully, people can say whatever they want about Steph he is the best shooter of all time, however he didn’t change the game how people claim at least in my eyes, when Shaq started in this league there weren’t any 3-second violations offenses didn’t really “space” the floor the way modern offenses do on every set therefore big men weren’t aloud to shoot within the offense they played down low and since there weren’t any violations for being in the paint guys like Shaq Ewing Hakeem. Could defend the basket and never be forced away from the rim and same thing offenseively. The game was CATERED to a big man post style of basketball… the biggest difference is the change of rules big guys are no longer aloud to stand right under the rim therefore it’s more be focal for them to shoot and that mixed with the fact 3’s are worth more than 2s changed the league into a more shooter centric let if fly league, if you shot a 32 foot jumper in the 90s you weren’t gonna leave the bench for a couple weeks now it’s par for the course to pull up from anywhere becuase the LEAUGE and OFFENSES changed guys are now told they need to work on their jumper regardless of size and they are taught if you have a good look let it fly now I’m not trying to diminish curry this was the perfect time in history for his skill set to be highlighted and he took every bit of that advantage the greatest shooter I’ve seen but I don’t think he changed the game other then to casual fans who began rooting for the Dubs just becuase it was “trendy”
I'll put him over Shaq but I wouldn't take Shaq out I really believe Steph got a goat argument Shaq also too I would've took out Russell 8 other hof's wilt gotta be over Russell he only had Jerry west with him going against 9 hof's all together they couldn't win that team vs 2 players
I disagree
You weird
@@bryceferguson8409 for me I would put curry in the top 10 to remove wilt or rusewl
As long as the list has Jordan Lebron Kobe Kareem and Magic on it I’m good.
kobe is top 10
@@jaffarkrismakavel4878 duh, he has more points than Tim Duncan and Larry bird
Shannon is tripping with Curry over Shaq and Skip is tripping with Shaq over Kareem
Skip is pure comedy. His face when he said "you bumped Shaquille O'Neal out of your top 10" LMFAOOOO
how can Kobe go from being the 🐐 to number 9 on Shannon list 😂 funny asf
Funny asl bro... they disrespect Kobe do much
@@LuciusKimbleJr media never liked Kobe
Kobe ain’t never been the Goat lil peon
@@carolinablueblood9462 neither have lebron 😂 but anyways I said this because in 2011 Kobe was Shannon sharp 🐐 go look it up my guy
@@carolinablueblood9462 😂 every player who played against them both pick Kobe
I don’t agree with either list, but Shannon’s is a lot closer to what I would have.
Skip doesn’t even divulge where he has Steph. Last time round Steph wasn’t even in his top 20 because he had not shown up in the finals. Now that he has, he doesn’t say where he is now, because he had crazy stuff like Harden at 18 and Bill Walton at 15 or 16.
Also Dr J and The Admiral in like 11 and 12. basically a manifesto of insanity and spite!
If he has the admiral at 12 it really questions his intelligence. That would mean he would have Hakeem criminally low.
@@PvtShiznit Hakeem was better than Robinson.
Dr. J was legitimately regarded as the BEST basketball player of the 70s and several basketball historians have him in their top 10 list so that isn't crazy.
David Robinson is a top 20 player I could see, but he is DEFINITELY NOT better than Hakeem.
Steph is, at lowest, 11 or 12th imo.
I have him 10th.
The lack of ALL NBA DEFENSES Award is a demerit.
1. MJ
2. Bron
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Duncan
6. Bird
7. Kobe
8. Shaq
9. Wilt
10. Steph
11. Russel
12. Hakeem
13. KD
14. Big O
15. West
Would be my top 15, but honestly at this point so long as you have MJ/Bron at 1~2, Kareem/Magic/Bird/Duncan somewhere in there your list is gucchi in my book. Not everyone values the same things in a player but I believe those 6 I mentioned shouldn't be left out no matter what, currently.
As for Steph, I think he earned the right to at least be in the conversation for Top 10, as in some people will put him in there, some people won't, but definitely an improvement because I don't think anyone but his most fanatic supporters put him in there before.
And Skip having Bron at 9 still gives me mild stomach pain.
I agree with your list slightly but u gotta have Kobe at least in the top 5 man
@@TheMplsboy The way I see it, MJ Bron and Kareem are a notch above the rest and you'd need a serious argument not to have them as your top 3, but it's a lot more lax/interchangeable and up to personal bias for the rest, so I can't get mad at putting Kobe in the top 5, it's fair enough.
What your list look like man ?
Shannon’s face when skip said shaq is third is priceless
When Shannon said he didn't have Shaq in the top 10 I was like he crazy 😳. Then he said his reason why. I can't argue with that it's true if Shaq really put in the work ethic he could have had 7 or 6 rings.
shannon kicking Shaq out of his top 10 is absolutely insane.
That's why I got Steph at 11. I had him at 13 behind Hakeem and KD, but who can you really take out of the top 10. If he wins another he's top 6 easily
You gotta really be on something to put Tim Duncan ahead of Kobe and Lebron over MJ. If you ask me Mike and Kobe are the greatest I've ever seen with my own eyes. F what everyone else says.
Tim > kobe kobe is either not top 10 or barely top 10
@@Elijah.OnRUclips You’re clearly like 5 years old. No one will take you serious with a take like that.
Top 10 lists are always fun 😀😇My list is 1)MJ 2)Bron 3)Bird 4)Magic 5)Kareem 6)Shaq 7)Duncan 8)Russell 9)Kobe, 10)Wilt
(I Have Steph currently at 12 )