Please note that the relic books are just an example in the video. Also it is a controversial topic but please keep the conversation respectful! Let us know what you think!
10 часов назад
keep up the good work, nice quality! very educational. thx for the hard work
I really don't think that gold transfer between rosters is against the TOS (like you are suggesting 8:40) when I open Lost Ark, I can choose to play on multiple servers - not against TOS - do you agree? when I wanna sell an item at any price I want - not against TOS - do you agree? is multiple rosters a problem for the eco - sure but not against TOS imho
We were talking about this on stream as well. We know that one player got banned last week for transferring gold between Rosters. This was also what I thought the whole time. Alt Rosters yes, but transferring gold no. But it seems not really clear what the exact rules are here.
@Couplemas As they crack down on RMT, these alt roster transfers become more risky. Once the bot situation is dealt with, it'll be safer to transfer gold from one roster to another.
@@illusivespecter8124 Take it slow! Wanting to catch up is not going to make you happy. We regularily help out newer/returning players and organize learning partys. Feel free to join our discord or catch us on twitch if you want (if you play in EUC)
What the community can do is stop taking busses. It's a two-sided transaction. It hurts everyone and it can be addressed from either side. Of course, that is also unrealistic, there will be always passengers that want to take the shortcuts. But if a large enough number of players refuse to give their gold in that way, the bussing rates will drop. It won't solve the problem, but it will be a step in the right direction.
Yeah but unfortunately it is actually a large community that'd rather take a bus than get jailed on their alts. Especially since big portion of playerbase has jobs/ other responsibilities so bussing is essential to a large portion of the population. Some people spend more time in game, some people swipe. Everyone values things differently and it is what it is at the end of the day. Just a game that people enjoy differently.
There's a large amount of people who are not "playing" their roster but just bussing to make money. Most busses give more gold than the payment to take the bus. Therefore it won't stop because this is a profit making scheme for these people. The mokoko bootcamp showed that it's basically people who bus themselves to double dip their gold earn when they do raids. The only way for this to be solved is for AGS to hold a better stance against preventing bussing.
Yeah the game by design is inducing fomo and a lack of supply at the same time, while offering you a solution for the problem they caused, in the Cash Shop.
The biggest problem is the rmters are also the same peopme spending in the cash shop. You are also ignoring the fact that players gain from selling these relic books. If you get an adrenaline drop thats 400k. You dont mention people swiping through the cash shop. If they want to fix the economy dont let oeople buy gold period. Not just g2g but also through the cash shop.
I would be happy if the cash shop would not have any option to buy gold. However, if you would remove the Gold shop in Lost Ark the impact of RMT and Bussing would even get bigger as more people would try to speed up progress through other means. On the other hand (let`s live in a unicorn and rainbow world for a second) if RMT/Bussing/ Alt Rosters would not exist the Cash Shop would not explode to the same extent as you would need to spend like 5 times the money compared to RMT. In terms of players gaining gold from buying Relic books. The point I make in the video is that the book is 400k, so of course if you get it you get a big chunk of money, but due to the inflation of gold the 400k gold is only worth 300k gold (as an example). But if there would be no or little inflation and the relic book would be 300k instead the value you get out of it would be similar. The only argument you can make here is if you exclusively only hone your characters and dont interact with the market at all, but that seems a bit farfetched. As I also said in a previous response to a comment I agree that the Cash Shop has a similar effect to the market situation. I just believe it is much smaller compared to the other issues I pointed out in the video.
Honestly I'd rather pick up shifts or work overtime and swipe than spend those hours in game. I'd rather spend my off days going out rather than sitting and grinding the whole day on an alt account.
@Couplemas they would need to fix the game. No bots only gold from players. If someone wants to buy gold a player made then let that be it. These gold farmers make gold from playing the game but if you removed bussing they would make significantly less. Price of gold would be very expensive and it would still regulate the market more than it is now. If you want to remove rmt then remove it all together dont half ass it as we know that doesn't work.
the most things are destroying the economy is bots but you were not mention it. And the gold raid reward need adjust too.Raids are too easy now so a 1640 char can easily make almost 60k gold in 1 week only with raid, but 1680+ char only can earn like 65k, it's not fair
I am talking about the gold raid reward in the video and stating Thaemine G4 as an example. Thaemine specifically needs a nerf. In regards to Bots, I´m not mentioning them, but they are the main cause for gold available to RMT, but in my opinion it didnt add any additional value to the topic I wanted to discuss.
Raids being easy decreases the wealth gap because people that have lower/average networth make the same amount of money from raids (bussing excluded) as highend players. Nerfing Thaemine only increases that gap even further. Bots mainly gather materials nowadays, since almost everything would only lead to bound gold as far as I know. Therefore they do not pump currency/gold into the economy, but mainly materials. If anything they lower our material costs and are not the cause for inflation.
Thanks for bringing more attention to this most important topic. Ive been saying this and complaining about it for years already. The problem is only amplyfied since release of T4. Im a Veteran with almost no Day missed since release and about 800 € spend. I have not bought any Relic Books (except Ether Predator when it was cheap in the beginning) and i dont have any of the new Gems (T4 9/10). Almost all of my Ancient Accessories are self rolled or sniped from the market from someone that misstyped or doesnt know theire value. I have been struggling to progress with honing aswell since i did not have Advanced Honing done on my Alts. I am currently sitting with 1x 1693, 1x1680 and 4x 1660. I pumped all my ressources into them to reach Aegir so i can at least have some progression weekly through new Aegir Pieces and unlocking Ark Passive. My 1680 also needed some additional equipment to keep up with the standards of pug Matchmaking since i do not have a Static. If this continues i dont think i will be able to keep up with the ever increasing requirements for new raids. I will be forced to abandone my Alts and keep them where they are for Months/Years without making any progress on them and only using them to generate gold for my Mains. Im at the Point where any progress i want to make costs me Weeks, if not even Months of grinding. TLDR: I play way too much and Books/Gems/Advanced Honing/Normal Honing and Accessories are all still to expensive for me. I cant even imagine how other people feel that have less. We need a clear statement from AGS/SG against Bussing, against RMT and against Alt Rosters with severe Punishments like Permabans to get this problem solved. Otherwise i dont see myself beeing able to keep sustaining my Roster and having to leave them behind one by one. (Playing 6 Characters every Day of the Week should let you get 1 Main on latest HM content, 1 Semi Main on latest NM content and 4 Alts 1 HM or NM Content behind.
I watched Strylander yesterday and he was talking about how streamers (and other players) are promoting images of unhealthy rosters. With the Roster you have you are probably somewhere in the top 10-20% of the game. I think it`s most important that we remind ourselves why we are playing a game which should be the fun of it. If you feel too stressed about it my advice would be to turn it down a notch and maybe just focus on your main. Wanting to have all your characters on the newest content (not HM but NM) is going to make you very unhappy in the long run or you gotta take out your credit card and be willing to spend quite a lot of money.
RMT, Bussing AND buying rc to convert into gold (be it skins, buying gold or just the material packs) have the exact same negative impact on the player base. Streamers can jump behind their "oh we are keeping the game alive" excuse all they want but when you look at it on a playerbase level, they are all the same thing. I have not bussed since the akkan days mostly cuz im too lazy to sit on lobbies, but I find ppl calling out p2p rmt and busses silly when they just turn around buy 10 skin packs and sell them. Its the same shit lol
It`s quite clear we are paying a p2w/p2progress game however you wanna call it. That`s why the general message of big spenders are keeping the game alive has merit. However, the point you are making is also true, it has a similar effect to the economy compared to RMT & Bussing. I will say though that the material packs are actually taking gold out of the economy, because of the honing costs that follow. It takes months to have a RoI from Honing a character up if you even reach it all.
Despite alt roster having a inflation impact on the game, this is the only weapon a free2play as to keep up with this pay2win game. unfortunately i have a bad feeling, i can very well see a future where they block all alt roster imposing a high roster limitation for trade or maybe force people to shop in game to unlocky the AH. while bus are more hard to combat since you can always organize yourself in discord... and just start the lobby in secret with no in game title lobby WTS i honestly don't know if i would keep playing lost ark if they remove alt roster, i'm not ok with the base speed progression the game is too pay2win and unfair to be played normaly.
The mentality of wanting to keep up is going to be your own downfall. Imagine a world where you have people who swipe as the game is monetized, but noone busses/RMT`s or has an Alt Roster. In that world you have let`s say 5% of the playerbase being juiced and the rest is more or less on the same level. But as many players take these ways to increase the income the playerbase which is "more casual" (if you even can describe any lost ark player as casual) is close to extinction.
You take a bus or you are bussing so you can play other games? Both seems a bit counterintuitive to me. One is saying I wanna be faster done which indicates you dont enjoy playing the game and the other one would take you even more time to play.
I disagree with the Bussing part. As it is not generating the gold from nothing, just shifting it from players to players, it should not ruin the economy/inflation. Same for RMT if it does not include bots. So in my opinion most important thing would be to ban the Bots again as the numbers of bots is rising again for like 2-3 weeks AGS needs to step in fast.
They are causing inflation because the market need to account for how much gold they earn when setting prices for thing relic books being the prime example
Bussing is not generating the gold from nothing, however it is distributing gold to "wealthier" players in the game which then have more available gold to buy specific items (books, accs) and due to the increased gold they keep the market prices on a level which are not affordable for other players. They are not a reason for gold inflation, but doesn`t mean it`s good for the overall economy. Same for RMT that doesn`t involve bots. We agree though that bots need to be removed as fast as possible :P. It`s a never ending war
@Couplemas Usually people RMT to afford the bus in the first place. Example: 4mil+ gold Eclipse busses etc. Bussing the latest content on release is essentially just bussing RMTers who want to get carried week 1 for extremely high prices. If RMT was punished harders, bus prices would come down as well. Therefore, bus drivers directly benefit from RMT.
@@bigzzz2611 If we talk about the most extreme form for sure. I´ve also talked to some bussers who say that quite a good bunch of their customers are swiping to afford bus or progressing their characters afterwards.
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Please note that the relic books are just an example in the video. Also it is a controversial topic but please keep the conversation respectful! Let us know what you think!
keep up the good work, nice quality! very educational. thx for the hard work
Weird how the economy in like Warframe is fine even with Plat buyers but this p2w shit korean game doesnt because it promotes fomo
part of the business model :P
This video is a great showcase on the issues of capitalism! Using Lost Ark as an example makes it really easy to understand
It is not a good example of capitalism.
banger video. I hope you keep making loa content
i like your English with german accent . good video!
I really don't think that gold transfer between rosters is against the TOS (like you are suggesting 8:40)
when I open Lost Ark, I can choose to play on multiple servers - not against TOS - do you agree?
when I wanna sell an item at any price I want - not against TOS - do you agree?
is multiple rosters a problem for the eco - sure but not against TOS imho
We were talking about this on stream as well. We know that one player got banned last week for transferring gold between Rosters. This was also what I thought the whole time. Alt Rosters yes, but transferring gold no. But it seems not really clear what the exact rules are here.
@Couplemas As they crack down on RMT, these alt roster transfers become more risky. Once the bot situation is dealt with, it'll be safer to transfer gold from one roster to another.
6 characters running aegir o.o like damn
life of a veteran no lifer in Lost (which includes wife and me xD)
@Couplemas I barely have one.i can't keep up with this game x.x
@@illusivespecter8124 Take it slow! Wanting to catch up is not going to make you happy. We regularily help out newer/returning players and organize learning partys. Feel free to join our discord or catch us on twitch if you want (if you play in EUC)
What the community can do is stop taking busses. It's a two-sided transaction. It hurts everyone and it can be addressed from either side. Of course, that is also unrealistic, there will be always passengers that want to take the shortcuts. But if a large enough number of players refuse to give their gold in that way, the bussing rates will drop. It won't solve the problem, but it will be a step in the right direction.
Yeah but unfortunately it is actually a large community that'd rather take a bus than get jailed on their alts. Especially since big portion of playerbase has jobs/ other responsibilities so bussing is essential to a large portion of the population. Some people spend more time in game, some people swipe. Everyone values things differently and it is what it is at the end of the day. Just a game that people enjoy differently.
There's a large amount of people who are not "playing" their roster but just bussing to make money. Most busses give more gold than the payment to take the bus. Therefore it won't stop because this is a profit making scheme for these people. The mokoko bootcamp showed that it's basically people who bus themselves to double dip their gold earn when they do raids. The only way for this to be solved is for AGS to hold a better stance against preventing bussing.
relic books, accessories and lv10 gems are not for f2p players
lack of supply is the biggest issue here. its by design to force players into the cash shop to speed up their progression
Yeah the game by design is inducing fomo and a lack of supply at the same time, while offering you a solution for the problem they caused, in the Cash Shop.
False, relic books will stay expensive because RMT'ers and Veteran bus/rmt'ers will buy them at that price.
Not sure if I misunderstand, but thats exactly what I´m pointing out in the video
Good video but now waiting for stoopz version
If the face of Lost Ark watches the video I´d be honored xD
The biggest problem is the rmters are also the same peopme spending in the cash shop.
You are also ignoring the fact that players gain from selling these relic books. If you get an adrenaline drop thats 400k.
You dont mention people swiping through the cash shop. If they want to fix the economy dont let oeople buy gold period. Not just g2g but also through the cash shop.
I would be happy if the cash shop would not have any option to buy gold. However, if you would remove the Gold shop in Lost Ark the impact of RMT and Bussing would even get bigger as more people would try to speed up progress through other means. On the other hand (let`s live in a unicorn and rainbow world for a second) if RMT/Bussing/ Alt Rosters would not exist the Cash Shop would not explode to the same extent as you would need to spend like 5 times the money compared to RMT.
In terms of players gaining gold from buying Relic books. The point I make in the video is that the book is 400k, so of course if you get it you get a big chunk of money, but due to the inflation of gold the 400k gold is only worth 300k gold (as an example). But if there would be no or little inflation and the relic book would be 300k instead the value you get out of it would be similar. The only argument you can make here is if you exclusively only hone your characters and dont interact with the market at all, but that seems a bit farfetched.
As I also said in a previous response to a comment I agree that the Cash Shop has a similar effect to the market situation. I just believe it is much smaller compared to the other issues I pointed out in the video.
Honestly I'd rather pick up shifts or work overtime and swipe than spend those hours in game. I'd rather spend my off days going out rather than sitting and grinding the whole day on an alt account.
@Couplemas they would need to fix the game. No bots only gold from players. If someone wants to buy gold a player made then let that be it. These gold farmers make gold from playing the game but if you removed bussing they would make significantly less. Price of gold would be very expensive and it would still regulate the market more than it is now. If you want to remove rmt then remove it all together dont half ass it as we know that doesn't work.
the most things are destroying the economy is bots but you were not mention it. And the gold raid reward need adjust too.Raids are too easy now so a 1640 char can easily make almost 60k gold in 1 week only with raid, but 1680+ char only can earn like 65k, it's not fair
I am talking about the gold raid reward in the video and stating Thaemine G4 as an example. Thaemine specifically needs a nerf. In regards to Bots, I´m not mentioning them, but they are the main cause for gold available to RMT, but in my opinion it didnt add any additional value to the topic I wanted to discuss.
@Couplemas it is a pay to win game RMT is not g2g its real money transaction where you can get it even from ingame wich doesnt really help the eco
Raids being easy decreases the wealth gap because people that have lower/average networth make the same amount of money from raids (bussing excluded) as highend players. Nerfing Thaemine only increases that gap even further.
Bots mainly gather materials nowadays, since almost everything would only lead to bound gold as far as I know. Therefore they do not pump currency/gold into the economy, but mainly materials. If anything they lower our material costs and are not the cause for inflation.
Thanks for bringing more attention to this most important topic. Ive been saying this and complaining about it for years already. The problem is only amplyfied since release of T4. Im a Veteran with almost no Day missed since release and about 800 € spend. I have not bought any Relic Books (except Ether Predator when it was cheap in the beginning) and i dont have any of the new Gems (T4 9/10). Almost all of my Ancient Accessories are self rolled or sniped from the market from someone that misstyped or doesnt know theire value. I have been struggling to progress with honing aswell since i did not have Advanced Honing done on my Alts. I am currently sitting with 1x 1693, 1x1680 and 4x 1660. I pumped all my ressources into them to reach Aegir so i can at least have some progression weekly through new Aegir Pieces and unlocking Ark Passive. My 1680 also needed some additional equipment to keep up with the standards of pug Matchmaking since i do not have a Static. If this continues i dont think i will be able to keep up with the ever increasing requirements for new raids. I will be forced to abandone my Alts and keep them where they are for Months/Years without making any progress on them and only using them to generate gold for my Mains. Im at the Point where any progress i want to make costs me Weeks, if not even Months of grinding.
TLDR: I play way too much and Books/Gems/Advanced Honing/Normal Honing and Accessories are all still to expensive for me. I cant even imagine how other people feel that have less.
We need a clear statement from AGS/SG against Bussing, against RMT and against Alt Rosters with severe Punishments like Permabans to get this problem solved.
Otherwise i dont see myself beeing able to keep sustaining my Roster and having to leave them behind one by one. (Playing 6 Characters every Day of the Week should let you get 1 Main on latest HM content, 1 Semi Main on latest NM content and 4 Alts 1 HM or NM Content behind.
I watched Strylander yesterday and he was talking about how streamers (and other players) are promoting images of unhealthy rosters. With the Roster you have you are probably somewhere in the top 10-20% of the game. I think it`s most important that we remind ourselves why we are playing a game which should be the fun of it. If you feel too stressed about it my advice would be to turn it down a notch and maybe just focus on your main. Wanting to have all your characters on the newest content (not HM but NM) is going to make you very unhappy in the long run or you gotta take out your credit card and be willing to spend quite a lot of money.
RMT, Bussing AND buying rc to convert into gold (be it skins, buying gold or just the material packs) have the exact same negative impact on the player base. Streamers can jump behind their "oh we are keeping the game alive" excuse all they want but when you look at it on a playerbase level, they are all the same thing. I have not bussed since the akkan days mostly cuz im too lazy to sit on lobbies, but I find ppl calling out p2p rmt and busses silly when they just turn around buy 10 skin packs and sell them. Its the same shit lol
It`s quite clear we are paying a p2w/p2progress game however you wanna call it. That`s why the general message of big spenders are keeping the game alive has merit. However, the point you are making is also true, it has a similar effect to the economy compared to RMT & Bussing.
I will say though that the material packs are actually taking gold out of the economy, because of the honing costs that follow. It takes months to have a RoI from Honing a character up if you even reach it all.
Despite alt roster having a inflation impact on the game, this is the only weapon a free2play as to keep up with this pay2win game.
unfortunately i have a bad feeling,
i can very well see a future where they block all alt roster imposing a high roster limitation for trade or maybe force people to shop in game to unlocky the AH.
while bus are more hard to combat since you can always organize yourself in discord... and just start the lobby in secret with no in game title lobby WTS
i honestly don't know if i would keep playing lost ark if they remove alt roster, i'm not ok with the base speed progression the game is too pay2win and unfair to be played normaly.
The mentality of wanting to keep up is going to be your own downfall. Imagine a world where you have people who swipe as the game is monetized, but noone busses/RMT`s or has an Alt Roster. In that world you have let`s say 5% of the playerbase being juiced and the rest is more or less on the same level. But as many players take these ways to increase the income the playerbase which is "more casual" (if you even can describe any lost ark player as casual) is close to extinction.
Just dont use AH, and dont fomo! Simple! Also dont carry "Alt rosters/ veteran alts", simple!
Imagine the times when we tried to get 5 engravings and take the Auction House away, sounds like a nightmare to me ;)
Or You can just ignore all of them and have fun with the game as "casual game" and not competitive player
Always the best option to ignore existing problems and not talk about them at all
I bus so I can play other games
You take a bus or you are bussing so you can play other games? Both seems a bit counterintuitive to me. One is saying I wanna be faster done which indicates you dont enjoy playing the game and the other one would take you even more time to play.
I disagree with the Bussing part. As it is not generating the gold from nothing, just shifting it from players to players, it should not ruin the economy/inflation. Same for RMT if it does not include bots. So in my opinion most important thing would be to ban the Bots again as the numbers of bots is rising again for like 2-3 weeks AGS needs to step in fast.
They are causing inflation because the market need to account for how much gold they earn when setting prices for thing relic books being the prime example
Bussing is not generating the gold from nothing, however it is distributing gold to "wealthier" players in the game which then have more available gold to buy specific items (books, accs) and due to the increased gold they keep the market prices on a level which are not affordable for other players. They are not a reason for gold inflation, but doesn`t mean it`s good for the overall economy. Same for RMT that doesn`t involve bots.
We agree though that bots need to be removed as fast as possible :P. It`s a never ending war
@Couplemas Usually people RMT to afford the bus in the first place. Example: 4mil+ gold Eclipse busses etc. Bussing the latest content on release is essentially just bussing RMTers who want to get carried week 1 for extremely high prices. If RMT was punished harders, bus prices would come down as well. Therefore, bus drivers directly benefit from RMT.
@@bigzzz2611 If we talk about the most extreme form for sure. I´ve also talked to some bussers who say that quite a good bunch of their customers are swiping to afford bus or progressing their characters afterwards.
@Couplemas The legit swipers who swipe to buy bus are the newer players sadly.