Narcissists *might* be able to change, BUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WON'T
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Yes, for the WORSE!
If you don't walk today, you'll have to run tomorrow.
Realize the real lies the narcissist is telling you and get out.
Yep👍🏻! It's foolish to 💭 a person with NPD can change in a healthy way.They really do get worse...Just 👀 at old washed-up narcs in their 60's+ & what nightmares they are😳.
If anyone asks, say it’s your new exercise motto.
@@arlene9480 Oh my gosh that's hilarious😂🤣👍🏻👍🏻.This really should be the new exercise craze.
Absolutely ! The Rage and later the physical abuse. What you don't know is they are stealing your money and hiding financial data. They are LIARS and they only get Worse over Time. Run, don't walk . The BS about forgiveness, forgive yourself for not protecting your Soul, your Body, Your Nervous System, Your Being.
@@malwads1836 I am going through it now. He has only worsen. He is like 64 and at his worst. He won’t let me go 😢😢😢
When things have gotten so toxic, the only positive change is to get out. And stay out. Forever.
Narcissistic change is very much like starting a fitness-health journey: Success can only be obtained and maintained if you are doing it for YOU and no one else. Any positive behavioral change on their part, even if it was 100% their genuine attempt to be a better person, a kinder spouse, and fairer boss, will always eventually fail because they aren't making those changes for themselves, they're making them to hold onto supply, just like how losing weight to save a marriage with a cheating spouse doesn't work.
I finally put my foot down and called the whole thing off. He got the point and “changed”. He is moving out in 4 days and a wake-up. But for the last 3 months since i called it he has “changed” . he continues to terrorize me, threaten me, tower over me, flick lit cigarettes at me and my personal favorite spits on me. But he’ll tell you he’s changed because he hasn’t put his hands on me. According to him problem solved. 😡 Tuesday cannot come soon enough.
Right on point. Recently my wife started yelling at me, started abusing me simply because i had lost my job because of budget cuts and i was looking at her to get the health insurance thru her employer. I supported her and two kids for 25 plus years and this was the first time in married life that i was looking at her to do something.
He changed, but so did his narcissistic traits, to new narcissistic tactics.
They can change their behavior and actions since they most likely felt shame, but deep down they cannot change. You might see minor changes on the surface at best. You can't expect major and meaningful changes.
After nearly 6 years on and off together - nothing ever changed.
Devine Intervention requires self reflection...
Lol ‘life is not a feel good Oscar nominated movie’ 😂
But they def told me it was!!!
One may have a key, but without a keyhole to receive it, it can not do much.
Beautiful. Thank you so much for this 🫶😞
Narcissists don't always yell.
The narcissist I know lowers his voice so I have to strain to hear.
It's like he wants all of my attention to be directly focused on him.
A wise counsellor (30 years ago) once told the narcissist that he might have to spend a lifetime of making up for the damage he had done in our very new relationship. And, that he would never be able to stop apologizing. And, that those things will probably never make the relationship right.
Of course the narcissist disregarded those things out of hand, and still does the, "look at me - I did this once - I deserve a cookie" routine.
Exactly !!!
@@shinykazzadragonYep, it's like they get younger as they age, but not in a good way. 😂
love you Dr. Ramani ❤
I am at this very spot in my life. My wife seems to change. I am asking myself how I can heal from the abuse. Everything she does, I can't help and see in the context of the past.
She started to change after I almost divorced her.
Thank you. Needed to hear this.
Even if he would have started to change or if he does in the future our relationship is over. Almost 30 years was more than enough for me. I’m now having to heal from all of it. If he changes I’m glad for him. It won’t make me want to be with him one more day though. He is nowhere near even realizing he needs to change though. Even after losing his wife and children. It all of our faults, not his.
Wether they are changing for the good or not, the focus will always be on THEM and you’ll unfortunately continue to feel exhausted and depleted.
I wish I could talk to Dr. Ramani -I feel like I need that and that there are not psychologists near me that will get what I’m going through.
I am PRAYING he will change but I am not expecting it, I am not hoping for it either. He's no longer part of my life. My kind ♥️ heart wishes for a better life FOR HIM. I know He's miserable
My narcissist ex had an affair with a young woman in year three of our marriage and returned to her 15 years later for a second affair. He actually said out loud, "Don't I get any credit for staying away from her for 15 years?!" I'm dead.😂😭😱
Destination happiness is a real and life killing concept. That is one thing narcissists are able to give. a painted picture of a bright sunny future but it's still under the illusion they portray.
We have to think about how hard it is to change ourselves, even smaller things. Like maybe exercising or cleaning up our diet or staying more on top of chores. It's hard! so we have to accept where we meet people in life is where they're at NOW. And us trying to change or aid them will only change us.
It's not really going to happen. It's up to the victim's of a narcissist to walk away.
I can tell u as a victim the minute they seek out therapy you are in for some serious hurt. They'll resent you are asking them to seek out therapy. They'll never change
Last Time i checked ...I dont take no Disrespect
Lyric from Movado
Disrespect
I think mine is part psychopath, really, they can act better than Anyone on TV, btw I don't do tv, it's called PROGRAMMING for a Reason!!
No I don’t think they can
no change,it doesn't happen,it's like trying to grow a tree in reverse,not possible,gravity dictates it.
your new hair suits you
I'm not going to believe this a bit. Anyone can change. This is absolutely preposterous.
Thoughts regarding positive change, how can a narcissistic person be satisfied singularly with the devotion, love and attention their current partner offers? Can this type of person be satisfied without needing (secretive?) validation from other people?
I think so. Long story short, my ex BF changed, but now interested in 2 other women. He thinks I've been the one who changed the most, but I don't see it that way. Those other women don't know what goes on behind closed doors
@@cherylu9716 my ex bf managed to get me back with a lot of romcom hoovering.I betrayed my instincts and gave him another chance. . He offered “ to move in with me “ so that he could prove to me how committed he was to our relationship after we had been broken up for a year and a half. Day one we are back together💕, day two I clearly explain to him that his ex wife’s new social media presence made me uncomfortable because even though they had been divorced for six years she made a new site devoted to their courtship, their engagement and the first few years of their 25 year marriage. He assured me that they are not friends on Facebook and he has no interest in what she posts. Fast forward 14 months of him living in my house (and yes the relationship had returned to the dysfunctional dynamic it was but this time it was harder for me because he’s actually living in my house) … After 14 months of him living in my home supposedly in a committed and monogamous relationship, I find out that for the past 14 months he has been text messaging SFW photographs of himself and his adventures to her and to two other women. He goes on to tell me that “it’s unfair it is for me to feel betrayed “ because I knew he was friends with his ex-wife as she is the mother of their children. Lastly, he explained to me with a large dose of vitriol that he has every right to nurture his relationships in any way that suits [him]” . We broke up shortly there after not so much for his apparent secretive need for validation about his looks (handsome) but for his insistence that my feelings towards his lack of transparency and betrayal were unfair to him; he didn’t deserve my expressing of my hurt. When he came to get his things from my house with the moving van he texted me and called me repeatedly asking me to make up with him. Fortunately, I had witnesses and friends in my house watching him move everything out whilst I stayed locked away in my bedroom and I haven’t seen him cents. My friends also taught me how to block him on Facebook. Thank you so much for your input. I won’t be getting back together with him but if he can change I would be happy for him and his future girlfriends.
I already knew they couldn't change. But thanks for the validation.
Remember: the source of your pain can never be the source of your healing. The person hurting you can never heal you.
True.
That's why we should all be focusing on accepting the fact that they can't/won't change and not let their childish behaviour affect us. If you don't react and just ignore their crap they'll have no reason to do it anymore. (I know it's easier said then done, and it doesn't apply to every situation). Somehow i think most narcissist actually thrive from the negative energy they create in you and if you don't give it to them they'll starve. Of course they'll try to come up with new ways but sooner or later they'll give up. Hopefully...
As the victim of narcissistic abuse, I’ve had to change. I’ve had years of therapy, being in 12 step groups, meditation retreats and read whole sections of books from the self help section of the library. And AS SOMEONE WHO WAS THE VICTIM, it has been extremely difficult. The amount of work, healing the trauma, etc, is actual work. So, hell no I don’t think they can change. They’ve all been extremely lazy. Yeah. Not waiting around for that BS. FOH. Deuces.
Yes the irony is that it's the people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder who are the true sick ones who should be in therapy and doing the work but they end up driving their abuse victims into therapy instead and it's the victims who end up the sickest after the exposure to the narcissist and have to end up adjusting to a world that enables narcissistic abusers while punishing the victims in a type of bizarre heart breaking disturbing never ending episode of Black Mirror or Twilight Zone.
You nailed it👍🏻👍🏻.Just for NORMAL folks it's extremely difficult & time consuming to heal significant trauma like what we get from narcissistic abuse...So imagine an extremely RIGID person like a narc or even a cluster B type in general trying to genuinely heal🙄.1 of the worst aspects of Cluster B personality disorders is their very extreme rigidity, with NPD & ASPD in particular these people will be psychologically BROKEN INTO MERE DUST before ever bending into a new form.They don't bend...Just break in the "best" case scenario🙄🤦♀️.
Are narcissists extremely lazy? My general experience of narcissists is that they are driven, as greed is always a motivator for narcissists, whereas meaning can be stripped away from non narcissists by abuse, thus leaving victims broken and lacking motivation, which could look like laziness. Capitalising stuff in handwriting is a sign of psychopathy, also I've never seen anything to indicate narcissists are lazy, that is not synonymous with personality change, in fact I think the subtext of the video is that narcissists can't change, rather than won't change, also rating people as deuces, seems like a very male and narcissist thing to do, are you really who you claim to be?
It 👀 like your post ticked off a gaslighter projecting type...You know you're on the right track when these types go after you😉👍🏻👍🏻.
@malwads1836 It wasn't intended as gaslighting. It's certainly not incencere or a deliberate attempt to skew anyone's reality on my part. I was really questioning whether it was gas lighting. Your comment on the other hand contains no analysis, or questions, it just passes judgement on me, a person you don't know, so is one hundred percent gaslighting, I suspect that it is deliberate gaslighting and almost certainly projection. Your comment is cynical, and I suspect you have no good intentions in being here.
They change only if there is something in it for them. So the change will not last
They just change their tactics to get what they want.
Facts 💯
Was about to say
Dang, this is so right on.
Exactly
😔
Change or not. It changes the victim. Because the damage has been done, you can’t go back. Can’t unsee.
And you will spend a LOT of time realizing all the other ways you've changed in having to accommodate bad behavior from narcissists. 😢
@@cc1k435 💯2 years out and still seeing the changes within myself. Thank you 💕
Exactly. They can change all they want but the trauma that conditioned me to cringe at the thought of being with them again will not change.
@@LeipuananiI’m here right now. They can promise to change. They might go to therapy to change. But he’s asking me to love him again..? To feel secure with him??? I’ve experienced too much. I don’t think it’s possible. He wants me to go to therapy to learn how to love him again. I haven’t got it in me..
@BexS77 This is hoovering. Empty promises to get you back and it's all lies. Not only that, it will get worse.
In my experience, they don’t change nor take accountability. It’s awful. I expect nothing from them and keep my boundaries. I almost find the enablers worse who expect you to give narcissists never ending chances and ‘be forgiving’ no matter what they do. Prioritizing my safety and well being no matter what anyone else says. Thank you Dr Ramani❤
My ex inlaws expected me to be the good wife and do this into perpetuity. I bailed on the marriage and never regretted it for a moment---yet, they treated me as a pariah for leaving. What a bunch of wackos.
THIS ^^^
People who expect us to just put up with the narcissistic abuse forever and not walk away… they are just as guilty as the narcissist in my opinion.
Spot on we've got a son hooked up with one,she has tried to abuse the three of us and he seems to think we should cop it.we ARE NOW NO CONTACT WITH BOTH OF THEM.
@@GGVanilla .....true they're all guilty of being accomplices, certainly in my case but feel no remorse at all. It's all about their feelings, image and ego. (Btw, I love your avatar. Fellow cat fan here too.)
@@robbrewer2036 this is where I am at sadly with my brother and his wife. Hard when my family invites them to dinners and pressures me to be friendly with them no matter what abusive toxic things they do. It’s not ok. It breaks my heart but my safety and well being matter too. Thank you for sharing. 🙏
The so-called changes and apologies initiated by narcissists are all transactional, period. They expect nothing less than positive feedback and rewards after the "effort" they made FOR YOU. Yes, for you. Not for improving themselves or making themselves better human beings.
Either they'll change or not its none of our business. The moment you discover who they really are, just save your self and run. There's still a lot of good people out there.
It is our business to protect ourselves from soul sucking sadistic monsters. I feel for those who share children with them as it makes is it a gazillion times more difficult to completely sever a relationship.
Amen!
I think Ali means this but without children being in the situation. She can only heal herself + it doesn’t matter why her abuser won’t change. Everyone has to do what they can to heal. I’m still trying to heal + I shudder to think if I had children - and if they were even involved. I think she’d consider herself + children if she had any
Its like they are lizard people - animals wearing human masks.
If it was only that easy.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them -- the first time.
No,just the same cycles over and over! Get out if you can. Do not expect empathy and care! Go no contact, evil people just learn to fake better!
Can you win the Powerball or Mega Millions? It happens all the time and is 100% possible. But........
I think they have to hit serious rock bottom in order to change, and they will always backslide to what worked as a narcissist when things get overwhelming for them. I also think it's impossible if they're a sadistic narcissist, who enjoys hurting people or hurts people to make themself feel better.
They don't change as a person after rock bottom. They change tactics. Just look at all the self aware narcissists on RUclips using their disorder to "help" others. It's just a new tactic to extract supply. "You can thank me for being brave about being honest about the fact that I'm a self admitted abuser addict, now buy my course and support me belittling you for being gullible and pathetic for having no ability to end a relationship with a different narcissist."
Is that not every narcissist?
@@BondofOblivionGood point. I believe they are all sadistic too.
@@BondofOblivionFor narcs sociopathy is merely a baby step for them so a LOT of them end up slipping down that slippery slope...These are the ones that derive pleasure/ amusement/satisfaction in 👀 others struggle/suffer even if they're completely innocent people that they don't know on the news for example.All the ones I've personally 👀 were like this😬.
Play it safe. Never allow a narcissist back into your life. Maybe a 2% chance of real change. I will never place that bet.
Once the trust and respect is gone, you can't undo what they've done to us mentally and physically to our mental health. Hurt. Hurts.
Amen.
Spot on
Left an abusive marriage 51 days ago with a narcissist. It’s been daily torture since I left but I feel free and I know it’s going to work out for the best
Stay strong 🍀
You can do it! It's probably the hardest thing to do in your life but it's definitely worth it! You'll be free and happy and full of love for yourself and you deserve all that ❤
Has he been love bombing you? Promising everything you ever wanted? Guilt tripping you? Or is he leaving you alone? Do you guys have kids? Do you sometimes want to go back?
@ohcyncyn love bombing came in the first week but he realized pretty quickly that I wasn't falling for it and then got angry. After 2 weeks, he completely cut me off all joint finances and money is not an issue for us (although it is for me now) he locked me completely out of the house and I've been broke and homeless since (I'm staying with a friend and am waiting to get into a property we own) It's been 55 days of torture - EVERY DAY! I'm staying strong and a couple steps ahead at every turn :)
All the best... mental damage is tough to get over as it's healing from within with issues that are so complicated and intertwined
I do not believe that a Narcissist can change, I however I believe that a narcissist can end up in a relationship where the partner can fulfill the correct amount or type of Supply that the narcissist needs to be happy. it can be like a cure, and in some instances even be long term.
Thank you DR. Ramani, you have been the most help for me and my children during all the stages of this process. from realizing that I needed help.. Till now 4 years latter, Divorced happy and thriving...
🙌 Yes! Possibility doesn’t equal probability… and though I DO believe in the human ability to grow and change, it’s an individual spiritual revelation/decision and effort in going with the grow. No human can impose change on another… we can’t love them enough, explain enough, give enough, show enough so… unconditional love NOT unconditional relationship ❤
Coverts don’t scream….. but just as hurtful. Evil lives inside them all !!!!
Yes they do scream yell and are physically abusive too
yes they do all of those things just not as often as grandiose
Thank you for saying that. The covert smiled and smiled and smiled while "just trying to help" and was pure evil underneath and beside closed doors. Much of my family is still in utter denial. "He was such a nice guy." So wasn't.
@@mistiblu9133 YES, Absolutely 💯
They maybe don't start that way or show it off in public. They are toxic as hell at home and in private. And likely to get more malignant and less careful about privacy as they age. 🙁
Only I can change my life.. no one can do it for me. It's a myth that they can change.
Do yourself AND the narcissist in your life a favor: be the possible catalyst for their change by leaving them!
Yes, if the situation aligns to break free and or minimize contact to the absolute minimum. I’m one of those lucky people and with the help of Dr Ramani, I’m absolutely clear on not letting them back into my life. Their brains are wired in a way that change is not real change but rather some pose in their superficial world.
@@BSharp369 I'm glad you got free! Good wishes to you! ❤
@bellaluce7088, and whatever you do dont appear to be too knowledgeable and steal their glory. Their pride cant take it..
They have to be the one's that know. Your are subservient to them by default.. If you fail to do so, they will surely ignore you and deem you the narcissist, Guaranteed they will come up with a convincing reason to those who are gullible.
@@LillianGreenHiLilly "You're subservient to them by default" reads like a curse in my current state of mind, though I'm sure your comment was well-intentioned. This is why having nothing to do with them is the best option if possible. NO ONE should have to dim their light to make these pathetic demons feel better about themselves and avoid their retribution.
Our time on this planet is precious, and we are meant for better things!
I don’t think they can and even if they could I don’t think I could find enough trust to believe one more promise.
I honestly don't think they can change. I think they can control their behavior to a certain extent, but that's just them doing what is good for them.
I think they can feel regret about the consequences of their actions, but are incapable of feeling true remorse for the harm they do.
This is why I won't ever again have a close relationship with a certain family member.
It is not realistic to expect change, especially if you continually acquiesce and let the relationship take that course for so long. Once the patterns have been set, they are very hard to break up.
No they can't change. And i feel bad for children with narc parents bc they're gonna give them 1 million chances they don't deserve. My FIL never apologizes. He literally acts like his tantrums and insults never happened. Then my inlaws smile and bring empty gifts. I literally hate being in this cycle.
This hit home today. My Mom has said, in earnest "I'm the greatest parent that has ever lived" so when my siblings and I stopped talking to her, it shattered her mask and she hit rock bottom. In her recent campaign to win us back, I've seen all sorts of behaviours I have never seen before - a few days ago, she actually apologized (!!!!) and while the apology was nice, it was only a means to an end because she otherwise remains the same person: cruel, manipulative and entitled. These slight behaviour modifications have been extra hard because we all want so badly to believe that Mom is capable of change.
My parents both do this sort of thing. A token apology that doesn't come with change. I think they do it so they can tell the others in their life "I don't understand my son, I apologized even though it wasn't my fault to try to appease them but they still won't come around. Pray for me." Victim card to rope others into their network of abuse.
Absolutely - one insincere apology in an entire lifetime of cruelty and they are once again the great patron saint of morality and martyrdom @@TheRealMonnie
You nailed it! The significance of those slight behaviour changes. Which of course are totally calculated and manipulative. Like a love bombing. Giving little glimmers of hope. To guilt/shame ourselves..? Desperately scrambling for their scapegoat. smh🙏🕊
One of the things that narcs can do that *looks* like change is to learn how to tolerate being nicer for longer and more intensely. They then use this in their transactional state of mind to compel their supply to condone the narc's other crap.
"You wanted me to do x and I did it, right??? I did it nine times, right???? So you can't complain now that I'm doing y because I did x for you a whole nine times!!"
This is gold. Accurate description of my experience. I’m currently separated and trying to get divorced. We separated a year prior. He made some behavior modifications of which I conditionally applauded but never was able to mend what was broken. I’m just trying to heal from all the damage and finally coming out of the fog. Thank you for your videos!
I wish you success and healing.
So you left, and *then* he modified his behavior? Or did he modify as a last-ditch effort to keep you from separating? Just wondering about the timing, as my situation could unfold similarly at some point.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. It makes me feel sad to think they can't change, even with high motivation. In my experience, there might be a temporary impression they've actually improved their behaviour. It happened in my relationship and lasted several months! Unfortunately, that was caused by the presence of another person, a new supply. I almost fell for it.
Yep they can make TEMPORARY changes, it's usually done out of desperation to try to avoid losing a source of supply or material resources they need🤢.
Their change is a facade to get something. Remember, their motives are always self serving.
I’m sorry to hear this ❤️🩹
@@mezlandia ♥
@@ericb8413 TRUTH
No, I don't think the relationship can change. Personal experience. You either separate yourself from the narcissist and the relationship or accept what it is and realize this is your life.
I can't imagine going back because 3 years showed me that change never stuck. Why do I want to go back to someone I can't trust? I don't!
i wish i was as strong as you!
@@memeleelove one day you’ll wake up and you’ll be tired . You will get there .
@@memeleelove same…. I do wanna go back 😩 just one time… just to say my piece and say goodbye . I hate this .
A narcissist’s definition of change is to manipulate change into more of their cruelty and that is not changeable.
Here's my take on it: unless the narcissists has an epiphany, catharsis, that soul searching moment were they finally realize, truly realize how rotten they are to everyone in their orbit, they're probably not going to have that "I finally get it" moment. It's going to take a lot of inward retrospect and empathy.
I believe epiphanies don't work the same in narcissistic folks. My father had one when he divorced my mother and changed completely, for everyone's surprise. But now I know that he only changed the narcissistic style: went from covert to grandiouse. He's still overly selfish and superficial and he would still throw tantrums whenever he'd be out of supply. It took me so long to get it. Now I went no contact. He really tried to change his life, he just doesn't get empathy and he will never understand how fragile his ego really is.
An epiphany can't change the way a whole personality is built. It can only change a few behavior patterns but the foundations remain the same.
Narcs don't even have insight in regards to how their 💩 behavior causes a problem for THEMSELVES...They only understand that they cause damage to others but don't care due to the lack of empathy.The only way to currently cure NPD is when the 🧠 matter either rots away or is 🔥 after ☠️ unfortunately.I really do wish they had the capacity to genuinely 👀 inward & start to change but it just doesn't exist for them😮💨.
I’m in my 60s and have never seen a narcissist change.
No soul to search 🤦♀️
If the changes for the better can't hold ground on a bad day, in the face of making mistakes, and in the face of people not always accepting apologies, etc. then yeah, how exactly have narcissists changed? If they can't dust themselves off and carry on even when no one is there to cheer them on and give them supply, I wouldn't call that change. If they can't accept that those they've hurt may not want anything to do with them after all the horrible treatment, and say, "OK, well, I'm going to keep trying to do better and be better anyway" then...have narcissists actually changed?
My narc husband has been in therapy for nearly 2 years. His violent yelling and physical explosions have stopped, but the gaslighting and manipulation have escalated to unbelievable levels. I believe they can have the motivation to change, but they just cannot change their nature- lack of empathy, control, turning everything into their supply, the whole shebang.
Cannot change their nature...you hit the mail on the head!
So glad seeing this today as me and my boyfriend just broke up today and he kept making promises and speaking of all the changes he made. I pointed out yes he had made changes but no matter how long it takes or how well he behaves the scary man that says he will K me still pops up and he wants so much credit for simply doing the right thing. I said to him, you talk about how much you tryyyy and trrrryyyyy but you feel like you have to TRYYYY so hard just to simply do the right thing. My guy, it’s not in you. His mind nor his heart has changed, just his behavior had merely improved or more like been inhibited. This is not true change. I love him dearly, but I am letting him go.
The narcissism is a disorder of thinking you are more awesome than you are so it’s not a surprise they don’t change. Why would they change what they think is really great and awesome? It’s everyone else’s problem that we don’t like their poor behavior.
Seek Jesus… stop going to therapy
Again, Dr. Ramani, it feels like you were witness to me conversations over the last week! As discouraging as it is to be reminded they won't change, It is so validating of my experience. Thank you
I replayed this podcast several times at the 5:20 point. I'll listen to this one every day for a bit. How quickly I forget the pain. I'm insecure about my financial situation but looking forward to a new life. (pre-ordered you new book)
I was in my marriage 20+ years. I never even knew about narcissism when I made the leap and filed for divorce. It was messy and scary but OMG I am sooo thankful I did it. I was financially insecure too. He was a monster and controlled every single penny. Bottom line it was a choice between staying and my survival mentally and physically.
Best wishes for a new life, you can do this!
@beverlypawsat consider your ability to forget pain , even if for a while , a blessing of sort. In some, pain is always there , 24/7, even with radical acceptance.
Only some days more severe than other days
It is just our wishful thinking that they might change and finally love us back and understand what value the relationship has. We don't want them to be lost. Just like God doesn't want to loose any of his children. We are wired by him. We have the desire to help and rescue that people. But they are too stubborn and maybe afraid to accept that love. And the reason why we stick it out with them for that long ist just because of our good hearts and the love and patience we have to give. We are not perfect by far, but at least we try our best.
I've been to the point where I don't care if they change or not in any of their life besides to stop messing with my life.
It seems from the clinical evidence that Borderline Personality Disorders can recognize and to some extent work on themselves in order to change their behavior, however the NBPD it seems, is the hardest to change along with the Histrionic NBPD. Even the Psychopath BPD can apparently make a difference in their lives, but, it seems to be a monumental task and may take 2-3 years of intense therapy to do it. They are very broken people and it is very hard putting all those broken pieces back together again. Better for us to work on OURSELVES and be there for us, not them. Never abandon ourselves.
No words can articulate how much you’ve helped me and created the awareness of what I’ve gone thru for decades. And importantly provided answers to my questions. You’ve given me hope. I’m thankful that one person understands.
Lots of people here do, unfortunately. Narcissistic abuse is intentionally isolating, plus it is a strange story to tell people who have never experienced it. It's not even something most people can explain while still in the relationship, only after in hindsight. Take care, and know that you definitely are not alone. ❤
I had the most painful experience of hoping he would change. He even agreed to go to an abusive men's group and see a therapist. He would go out to his office to do his group calls and little by little he had joined more and more groups and something started to feel off. He was making friends and chatting with all these different people. Not like so and so and I are working on similar issues and supporting each other, but more like he's going to the virtual brewery and hanging out with new friends. He would come back in all happy and bouncy and had clearly been drinking. It was so awful to watch! I slowly realized he was not serious about doing any work to change, but rather had found a new way to get his supply needs met under the guise of working on this abusive behavior. The realization was soul crushing!
I feel for you. Mine went to a group therapy but it didn't help one bit. Instead, she found a new source of supply there so she could make herself look like the victim and me like the abuser. A very painful and extremely confusing experience. I thought I would go insane. My family and my therapist helped me so much, otherwise, I'd have lost touch with my reality.
@@agataK7830Im still there at the lost tough w reality bit 😢 trying not to go back but I can’t stop thinking about my ex. If he’s s true narc or just has some of the traits
Everyone and everything changes. But you can't expect a narcissist or a narcissistic relationship to change for the better.
The first part is bingo. Enabling is an enormous barrier to change.
Wow! This was a great discussion and I appreciate the feedback so much! I look forward for the movie!
Trying to be friends with a narcissitic ex, like genuine friend, no going back, shows that the dynamic does not change. I wouldn't recommend it. It's all still there, in them, under the surface. And the trauma is in the other person too. You can never let your guard down.
"you're not allowed to bring up the stuff in the past but they'll do it all the time". Should be part of the definition of a narcissist one of the first sentences in the paragraph.
I think any change a narcissist makes would be done to adjust to a new supply and not to improve your relationship with them.
It's really hard to get past betrayal..... I suggest you not expect better from them; family relationships don't survive all this crap. Forgive..... Wish them well.....and get out.
Or mindfully don't forgive, wish them justice, and move on with your life.
@@phoenixrising5338This. "Forgiveness" is not required, and I wish the culture would quit beating survivors over the head with it. We don't need that to be well.
@phoenixrising5338 Sometimes forgiveness amounts to not going to give them any more energy and consideration, they are obviously frozen in whatever hell they choose to reside in. Doesn't mean I forget, just means moving on without them, lesson learned. ❤
@@cc1k435Agreed. Our forgiving them is more for our well being than it is for them.
@cc1k435 Yeah, that's not the typical definition. Nor is it the practical application in most cultures on earth. No matter how people say they define it, what it really ends up resulting in is no consequences for the abusers and a lot of things for the survivors they should never be pushed into. Abusers view forgiveness as complete legitimization of their behavior and a free pass to keep on doing it. I don't think we ever want to be sending that message
A narcissist in a relationship can be likened to a mirage in a desert. At first glance, their charm and charisma may appear like an oasis, drawing you in with the promise of fulfillment and love. However, as you get closer, you realize it’s all a deceptive illusion. Much like the mirage vanishes upon closer inspection, a narcissist’s self-centeredness and manipulation become increasingly apparent, leaving you emotionally parched and stranded in a barren emotional landscape.
It’s interesting that a narcissist must always bend any aspect of their life, even therapy for narcissism, toward narcissism.
so sad, so true... How often did I fall for a promise of change? She changes just enough to keep me around. Some changes last for hours, some even for month. Breadcrumbing and future faking combined...
When my ex was grasping at straws to get me back and said things that seemed to show he was finally understanding stuff I'd been trying to tell him for months or years, it gave me pause... Maybe it was future faking, maybe something truly dawned on him, I don't know. He was probably not a full blown NPD, but quite immature. We were young and fresh out of teenagerhood, he probably had room to mature - and based on what little news I have from him today, maybe he did somewhat... But still. After a lot of thinking I eventually concluded he had done too much harm and *it shouldn't have taken me reaching my suffering threshold and walking out on him* . Even if the current crisis could have been resolved, was every problem down the road going to cost me that much? I couldn't do this every time, and change doesn't hapen overnight, I knew even if I gave it a shot it would still be an uphill battle. I had already given more than I had in me, and he waited until I was gone to have his eureka moment... One could argue the actual trigger for change was actually because me walking out was a loss for him, so far he hadn't cared for *my* losses and suffering in the relationship. Anyway, even if I was willing to believe him sincere, no matter how I looked at it, my final verdict was really that : *it shouldn't have taken me walking out* . Maybe he wasn't a lost cause, who knows really, but our relationship was, you're absolutely right.
Narcissists/toxic people will tell you what you want to hear. A moment later, they will return to their bad behavior. It doesn't matter how many times you have discussed issues with them. You are talking to a bottomless pit, it is endless. Nothing is going to change with them.
You're both right, there's no trusting blindly what he said. What I meant to point out, most of all, is that EVEN if we were to believe they did have some kind of realization, because a lot of survivors struggle with hypothetical thinking, benefit of the doubt and second guessing, like I did years ago... if you think it through, it STILL doesn't make it the right choice to go back, and that may be helpful to remember when part of you is trying to convince you to do so. Cheers!
"Im trying to be nice to you.... cant you give me credit for that?"
I am 70 and my mother is 89 I ve been waiting for her to change in spite of myself. Thinking that as she gets closer to the end maybe but no. She has managed to hurt me even now. But what can I do? I've reduced my contact with her and I've not even said ouch just let it go but I want it to be over. Soon
They can change, but it's highly difficult. A self-proclaimed narcissist has commented on this on RUclips : they can do behaviour therapy, but their brains is wired differently. They need to have hit a major rock bottom in order to do that, which rarely happens with an ecosystem of flying monkeys.
I don’t trust any narcissist.
I dont even care to know if they can change or not…all i know i have paid too much for therapy to go back..so no thank you..if they change good for them..but stay away from me
My critical, demeaning narcissistic spouse "changed" almost a year ago - when I finally said that I was seriously thinking about exiting the marriage due to all of the lousy behavior. So far there has been no significant backsliding, and yet now I feel stuck in the marriage because, even with the recent "good" behavior, the net result of all of that terrible behavior on the part of my spouse over the years has left me feeling quite distant and disappointed. In other words, I'm still "there" - but emotionally I'm not.
Love your new hair!
When I started educating myself and standing up for myself, he tried to change for a while, but yes he needed constant reassurance and encouragement, and the resentment built up in him until he exploded
Numerous times over the years I asked my late husband why he kept saying things he couldn't take back. He never once answered or stopped. For me narcissists are no different than alcoholics. They won't change unless they want to and then its probably not going to happen because they can't admit they aren't perfect. I think alcoholics would have a better success rate if they aren't a narcissist.
There is a LOT of overlap, to be sure. All a 12 step group would do for a narcissist, though, is introduce them to more narcissists. 😂
I bet alcoholics change way more than narcissists....
“Thanks for not yelling at me…”. My thoughts lately , like he should be thanked for the common decency expected from anyone.
Mine changed…he got WORSE! Over 20 years of marriage. That’s over now thank God.
23 1/2 yrs in with my Covert/Neglectful Narc, and I can attest that even with my Heyoka Spirit and INFJ personality type, I haven't been able to "help" him change in any significant or meaningful, nor lasting way. The ONLY thing I did "help" him in, was learning more ways to manipulate others, by trying new "pretend behavior techniques" (that he actually practices behind closed doors), which causes everyone "in his circle" to believe him more and believe my abuse and suffering even less!!!!
I did EVERYTHING Dr Ramani says NOT TO DO, calling him out, to himself and others, and basically educating him on how he may be seen or experienced by others; so then he would "tweak" his behaviors and responses in public, yet remain the same selfish, inconsiderate, deceitful, angry person he truly is, in private, JUST FOR ME!!!
So much more to the story, but there always is, isn't there? ;-)
No real change, and it's not worth any of energy, love, & precious time bestowed upon them!
It's like the narcissist wants credit for change up front, rather than just letting a history of having changed let the other person trust them. It’s like they want up-front credit for changing as a condition of changing and keeping the changes. "You have to admire and appreciate that one thing I just did differently." Meanwhile, they offer no 'validation' to the other person for having put up with so much already.
Nailed it.
Dr Ramani is the GOAT! She said only a head injury could change their personality, and or behavior. EPIC!! YOU GO DOCTOR!!
It there is no guarantee that head trauma may change the behaviour for the better, it may make it worse!!
Beware of a sick narcissist !!
The whole premise of the movie Regarding Henry. 😂
Yes, I have witnessed what a head injury can do; they got worse, much worse. Their love bombing cycle shortened while the devaluing cycle got longer. Their gaslighting, blame projecting, and rage increased by many, many times compared to what it was before their Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). After the TBI, things just got worse with the passing of each month and years.
Maybe shock therapy
Mine did have a head injury, only made it worse. @@4eversearch
Speaking from experience a snake can change it's skin, but a snake will still be a snake.
❣️🙌🏽❣️Thank you so so much dr.for reminding me every time..where I stand.He,and I’m sure,will never ever change.But I will ❣️🙌🏽❣️
I agree. I feel the same with my relationship.
My wife soon to be ex is a complete and utter narcissist, your videos have helped me so much thank you, worst she refuses to apologise after physically attacking me in front of friends, worst still her friends excuse the behaviour and enable her appalling behaviour as "being drunk" I'm rational and treated her with love, I walked away last week and now filing for divorce as these people are abhorrent and fake, play up and always claim victimhood.
I clicked so fast 😅
I’ve just found this channel. This video hit home the most of the ones I’ve watched. It was like she was speaking directly to me. My partner of 30 years said ‘I’m working on changing and if you leave, you won’t get the benefit of the best I’ll ever be’. I hope the change comes and is sustainable but I don’t want to be around to live with it. I fled very recently. The closer it got to me leaving the more escalated it got. I spent all those years trying to balance the waves, keep the peace in the house. The last few months have been like trying to stay on a surf board in a tsunami. Not sustainable for ME. I got out before I drowned.
My dad was able to learn management skills, and he backsides at predictable times. He's living a much healthier lifestyle and family dynamic, but the rage and control are still causing harm to the people who are closest.
It took me more than 6 and a half yrs to think normally to get over the abuse of hardly 6 yrs of narcissistic relationship
That sounds about right, since 1) no one can waste time for you like a narcissist, and 2) their "work" tends to continue long after they're gone. 🫣