Yep👍🏻! It's foolish to 💭 a person with NPD can change in a healthy way.They really do get worse...Just 👀 at old washed-up narcs in their 60's+ & what nightmares they are😳.
Absolutely ! The Rage and later the physical abuse. What you don't know is they are stealing your money and hiding financial data. They are LIARS and they only get Worse over Time. Run, don't walk . The BS about forgiveness, forgive yourself for not protecting your Soul, your Body, Your Nervous System, Your Being.
As the victim of narcissistic abuse, I’ve had to change. I’ve had years of therapy, being in 12 step groups, meditation retreats and read whole sections of books from the self help section of the library. And AS SOMEONE WHO WAS THE VICTIM, it has been extremely difficult. The amount of work, healing the trauma, etc, is actual work. So, hell no I don’t think they can change. They’ve all been extremely lazy. Yeah. Not waiting around for that BS. FOH. Deuces.
Yes the irony is that it's the people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder who are the true sick ones who should be in therapy and doing the work but they end up driving their abuse victims into therapy instead and it's the victims who end up the sickest after the exposure to the narcissist and have to end up adjusting to a world that enables narcissistic abusers while punishing the victims in a type of bizarre heart breaking disturbing never ending episode of Black Mirror or Twilight Zone.
You nailed it👍🏻👍🏻.Just for NORMAL folks it's extremely difficult & time consuming to heal significant trauma like what we get from narcissistic abuse...So imagine an extremely RIGID person like a narc or even a cluster B type in general trying to genuinely heal🙄.1 of the worst aspects of Cluster B personality disorders is their very extreme rigidity, with NPD & ASPD in particular these people will be psychologically BROKEN INTO MERE DUST before ever bending into a new form.They don't bend...Just break in the "best" case scenario🙄🤦♀️.
Are narcissists extremely lazy? My general experience of narcissists is that they are driven, as greed is always a motivator for narcissists, whereas meaning can be stripped away from non narcissists by abuse, thus leaving victims broken and lacking motivation, which could look like laziness. Capitalising stuff in handwriting is a sign of psychopathy, also I've never seen anything to indicate narcissists are lazy, that is not synonymous with personality change, in fact I think the subtext of the video is that narcissists can't change, rather than won't change, also rating people as deuces, seems like a very male and narcissist thing to do, are you really who you claim to be?
@malwads1836 It wasn't intended as gaslighting. It's certainly not incencere or a deliberate attempt to skew anyone's reality on my part. I was really questioning whether it was gas lighting. Your comment on the other hand contains no analysis, or questions, it just passes judgement on me, a person you don't know, so is one hundred percent gaslighting, I suspect that it is deliberate gaslighting and almost certainly projection. Your comment is cynical, and I suspect you have no good intentions in being here.
I already knew they couldn't change. But thanks for the validation. Remember: the source of your pain can never be the source of your healing. The person hurting you can never heal you.
That's why we should all be focusing on accepting the fact that they can't/won't change and not let their childish behaviour affect us. If you don't react and just ignore their crap they'll have no reason to do it anymore. (I know it's easier said then done, and it doesn't apply to every situation). Somehow i think most narcissist actually thrive from the negative energy they create in you and if you don't give it to them they'll starve. Of course they'll try to come up with new ways but sooner or later they'll give up. Hopefully...
@@LeipuananiI’m here right now. They can promise to change. They might go to therapy to change. But he’s asking me to love him again..? To feel secure with him??? I’ve experienced too much. I don’t think it’s possible. He wants me to go to therapy to learn how to love him again. I haven’t got it in me..
Either they'll change or not its none of our business. The moment you discover who they really are, just save your self and run. There's still a lot of good people out there.
It is our business to protect ourselves from soul sucking sadistic monsters. I feel for those who share children with them as it makes is it a gazillion times more difficult to completely sever a relationship.
I think Ali means this but without children being in the situation. She can only heal herself + it doesn’t matter why her abuser won’t change. Everyone has to do what they can to heal. I’m still trying to heal + I shudder to think if I had children - and if they were even involved. I think she’d consider herself + children if she had any
In my experience, they don’t change nor take accountability. It’s awful. I expect nothing from them and keep my boundaries. I almost find the enablers worse who expect you to give narcissists never ending chances and ‘be forgiving’ no matter what they do. Prioritizing my safety and well being no matter what anyone else says. Thank you Dr Ramani❤
My ex inlaws expected me to be the good wife and do this into perpetuity. I bailed on the marriage and never regretted it for a moment---yet, they treated me as a pariah for leaving. What a bunch of wackos.
THIS ^^^ People who expect us to just put up with the narcissistic abuse forever and not walk away… they are just as guilty as the narcissist in my opinion.
Spot on we've got a son hooked up with one,she has tried to abuse the three of us and he seems to think we should cop it.we ARE NOW NO CONTACT WITH BOTH OF THEM.
@@GGVanilla .....true they're all guilty of being accomplices, certainly in my case but feel no remorse at all. It's all about their feelings, image and ego. (Btw, I love your avatar. Fellow cat fan here too.)
@@robbrewer2036 this is where I am at sadly with my brother and his wife. Hard when my family invites them to dinners and pressures me to be friendly with them no matter what abusive toxic things they do. It’s not ok. It breaks my heart but my safety and well being matter too. Thank you for sharing. 🙏
Left an abusive marriage 51 days ago with a narcissist. It’s been daily torture since I left but I feel free and I know it’s going to work out for the best
You can do it! It's probably the hardest thing to do in your life but it's definitely worth it! You'll be free and happy and full of love for yourself and you deserve all that ❤
Has he been love bombing you? Promising everything you ever wanted? Guilt tripping you? Or is he leaving you alone? Do you guys have kids? Do you sometimes want to go back?
@ohcyncyn love bombing came in the first week but he realized pretty quickly that I wasn't falling for it and then got angry. After 2 weeks, he completely cut me off all joint finances and money is not an issue for us (although it is for me now) he locked me completely out of the house and I've been broke and homeless since (I'm staying with a friend and am waiting to get into a property we own) It's been 55 days of torture - EVERY DAY! I'm staying strong and a couple steps ahead at every turn :)
My narc husband has been in therapy for nearly 2 years. His violent yelling and physical explosions have stopped, but the gaslighting and manipulation have escalated to unbelievable levels. I believe they can have the motivation to change, but they just cannot change their nature- lack of empathy, control, turning everything into their supply, the whole shebang.
So glad seeing this today as me and my boyfriend just broke up today and he kept making promises and speaking of all the changes he made. I pointed out yes he had made changes but no matter how long it takes or how well he behaves the scary man that says he will K me still pops up and he wants so much credit for simply doing the right thing. I said to him, you talk about how much you tryyyy and trrrryyyyy but you feel like you have to TRYYYY so hard just to simply do the right thing. My guy, it’s not in you. His mind nor his heart has changed, just his behavior had merely improved or more like been inhibited. This is not true change. I love him dearly, but I am letting him go.
The narcissism is a disorder of thinking you are more awesome than you are so it’s not a surprise they don’t change. Why would they change what they think is really great and awesome? It’s everyone else’s problem that we don’t like their poor behavior.
I think they have to hit serious rock bottom in order to change, and they will always backslide to what worked as a narcissist when things get overwhelming for them. I also think it's impossible if they're a sadistic narcissist, who enjoys hurting people or hurts people to make themself feel better.
They don't change as a person after rock bottom. They change tactics. Just look at all the self aware narcissists on RUclips using their disorder to "help" others. It's just a new tactic to extract supply. "You can thank me for being brave about being honest about the fact that I'm a self admitted abuser addict, now buy my course and support me belittling you for being gullible and pathetic for having no ability to end a relationship with a different narcissist."
@@BondofOblivionFor narcs sociopathy is merely a baby step for them so a LOT of them end up slipping down that slippery slope...These are the ones that derive pleasure/ amusement/satisfaction in 👀 others struggle/suffer even if they're completely innocent people that they don't know on the news for example.All the ones I've personally 👀 were like this😬.
One of the things that narcs can do that *looks* like change is to learn how to tolerate being nicer for longer and more intensely. They then use this in their transactional state of mind to compel their supply to condone the narc's other crap. "You wanted me to do x and I did it, right??? I did it nine times, right???? So you can't complain now that I'm doing y because I did x for you a whole nine times!!"
The so-called changes and apologies initiated by narcissists are all transactional, period. They expect nothing less than positive feedback and rewards after the "effort" they made FOR YOU. Yes, for you. Not for improving themselves or making themselves better human beings.
This hit home today. My Mom has said, in earnest "I'm the greatest parent that has ever lived" so when my siblings and I stopped talking to her, it shattered her mask and she hit rock bottom. In her recent campaign to win us back, I've seen all sorts of behaviours I have never seen before - a few days ago, she actually apologized (!!!!) and while the apology was nice, it was only a means to an end because she otherwise remains the same person: cruel, manipulative and entitled. These slight behaviour modifications have been extra hard because we all want so badly to believe that Mom is capable of change.
My parents both do this sort of thing. A token apology that doesn't come with change. I think they do it so they can tell the others in their life "I don't understand my son, I apologized even though it wasn't my fault to try to appease them but they still won't come around. Pray for me." Victim card to rope others into their network of abuse.
Absolutely - one insincere apology in an entire lifetime of cruelty and they are once again the great patron saint of morality and martyrdom @@TheRealMonnie
You nailed it! The significance of those slight behaviour changes. Which of course are totally calculated and manipulative. Like a love bombing. Giving little glimmers of hope. To guilt/shame ourselves..? Desperately scrambling for their scapegoat. smh🙏🕊
This is gold. Accurate description of my experience. I’m currently separated and trying to get divorced. We separated a year prior. He made some behavior modifications of which I conditionally applauded but never was able to mend what was broken. I’m just trying to heal from all the damage and finally coming out of the fog. Thank you for your videos!
So you left, and *then* he modified his behavior? Or did he modify as a last-ditch effort to keep you from separating? Just wondering about the timing, as my situation could unfold similarly at some point.
Yes, if the situation aligns to break free and or minimize contact to the absolute minimum. I’m one of those lucky people and with the help of Dr Ramani, I’m absolutely clear on not letting them back into my life. Their brains are wired in a way that change is not real change but rather some pose in their superficial world.
@bellaluce7088, and whatever you do dont appear to be too knowledgeable and steal their glory. Their pride cant take it.. They have to be the one's that know. Your are subservient to them by default.. If you fail to do so, they will surely ignore you and deem you the narcissist, Guaranteed they will come up with a convincing reason to those who are gullible.
@@Lillyflower-J88 "You're subservient to them by default" reads like a curse in my current state of mind, though I'm sure your comment was well-intentioned. This is why having nothing to do with them is the best option if possible. NO ONE should have to dim their light to make these pathetic demons feel better about themselves and avoid their retribution. Our time on this planet is precious, and we are meant for better things!
As someone that is in therapy to address my narcissistic behaviors, i want to apologize to those that have been victimized by narcissists. My wife dealt with my abuse for 10 years and has suffered mental-cognitive function, memory loss, internal health problems, heart problems, PTSD, and these are just the things I remember; all from my lying, gaslighting, insults, apathy, devaluing and invalidating her. Why not feeling bad about what I was doing when I was doing it, I feel that now I have a small sliver of understanding what I’ve done. We’ve decided on a divorce but not before it has cost her long-term health, relationships with friends, family and kids/grandkids, the ability to work and support herself. I believe myself to be a horrible person. I am seeking therapy. And I know that narcissist need a supply. I am, however, reluctant to seek validation from outside sources via this source for the fear that I may hurt someone else. Dr. is spot on with how much hurt and abuse I’ve caused her. I have also done the future-fake and other traits she’s mentioned here.
I had the most painful experience of hoping he would change. He even agreed to go to an abusive men's group and see a therapist. He would go out to his office to do his group calls and little by little he had joined more and more groups and something started to feel off. He was making friends and chatting with all these different people. Not like so and so and I are working on similar issues and supporting each other, but more like he's going to the virtual brewery and hanging out with new friends. He would come back in all happy and bouncy and had clearly been drinking. It was so awful to watch! I slowly realized he was not serious about doing any work to change, but rather had found a new way to get his supply needs met under the guise of working on this abusive behavior. The realization was soul crushing!
I feel for you. Mine went to a group therapy but it didn't help one bit. Instead, she found a new source of supply there so she could make herself look like the victim and me like the abuser. A very painful and extremely confusing experience. I thought I would go insane. My family and my therapist helped me so much, otherwise, I'd have lost touch with my reality.
@@agataK7830Im still there at the lost tough w reality bit 😢 trying not to go back but I can’t stop thinking about my ex. If he’s s true narc or just has some of the traits
I do not believe that a Narcissist can change, I however I believe that a narcissist can end up in a relationship where the partner can fulfill the correct amount or type of Supply that the narcissist needs to be happy. it can be like a cure, and in some instances even be long term.
Thank you DR. Ramani, you have been the most help for me and my children during all the stages of this process. from realizing that I needed help.. Till now 4 years latter, Divorced happy and thriving...
Thank you Dr. Ramani. It makes me feel sad to think they can't change, even with high motivation. In my experience, there might be a temporary impression they've actually improved their behaviour. It happened in my relationship and lasted several months! Unfortunately, that was caused by the presence of another person, a new supply. I almost fell for it.
It is not realistic to expect change, especially if you continually acquiesce and let the relationship take that course for so long. Once the patterns have been set, they are very hard to break up.
It's like the narcissist wants credit for change up front, rather than just letting a history of having changed let the other person trust them. It’s like they want up-front credit for changing as a condition of changing and keeping the changes. "You have to admire and appreciate that one thing I just did differently." Meanwhile, they offer no 'validation' to the other person for having put up with so much already.
My critical, demeaning narcissistic spouse "changed" almost a year ago - when I finally said that I was seriously thinking about exiting the marriage due to all of the lousy behavior. So far there has been no significant backsliding, and yet now I feel stuck in the marriage because, even with the recent "good" behavior, the net result of all of that terrible behavior on the part of my spouse over the years has left me feeling quite distant and disappointed. In other words, I'm still "there" - but emotionally I'm not.
This is exactly what I am scared of with my narc wife. She still doesn't seem to have changed despite separation. She seems to be agreeing to things to work on at a surface level, but then her true colors show. I don't know how I could ever trust her enough to go back, if all of the changes are surface level. The "being there" is a struggle , because there is no trust, and the abusive nature actually makes me scared to be around her now.
🙌 Yes! Possibility doesn’t equal probability… and though I DO believe in the human ability to grow and change, it’s an individual spiritual revelation/decision and effort in going with the grow. No human can impose change on another… we can’t love them enough, explain enough, give enough, show enough so… unconditional love NOT unconditional relationship ❤
I really needed this. My younger brother just passed in a car accident and my narcissistic mom tried to reach out to me after two years of no contact with her. Several people were pressuring me into trying to make amends, check on her, or to be the "bigger person". When she reached out I immediately knew she hadn't changed and I didn't fall into that trap again. It's good to know I am not wrong in how I feel and how I am treating the situation.
Be the bigger person, forgive & forget, she’s your mom, why do you have to be this way, what did you do to her, what did she really ever do to you. If it didn’t happen to them they think it really didn’t happen to you.
@@anthoniaekwuocha8770 she tried messaging me the other day, and immediately went into trying manipulate/gaslight me. I honestly think I'd be ok never talking to her again.
It’s funny how they cape for her and also ask you to be the better person all while some of them may have entertained her gossip of you. I just realized these people are so weak bc why do they speak to us as if they know nothing or they don’t wanna get in it or they say she has changed so much but yet they are more afraid to ask her to be the bigger person. It’s bc not so deep inside they know who the more problematic person is and they know who the more agreeable person is. Bc all the while they’ve called you this and that they still feel more comfortable to come to you than their friend ( narc mama/papa/sibling/whoever) to be the bigger person and not the one they are in regular communication with! Flying monkeys! Forgive but do not be fooled! I believe in the Bible and there is a scripture that says be as shrewd as snakes and as gentle as doves.
This video has me crying. This narc relationship I’m in cannot change. Too many crimes against me have been committed without any justice. Just a new day, no apology/acknowledgment or conversation over it. It’s so hurtful 😢
Here's my take on it: unless the narcissists has an epiphany, catharsis, that soul searching moment were they finally realize, truly realize how rotten they are to everyone in their orbit, they're probably not going to have that "I finally get it" moment. It's going to take a lot of inward retrospect and empathy.
I believe epiphanies don't work the same in narcissistic folks. My father had one when he divorced my mother and changed completely, for everyone's surprise. But now I know that he only changed the narcissistic style: went from covert to grandiouse. He's still overly selfish and superficial and he would still throw tantrums whenever he'd be out of supply. It took me so long to get it. Now I went no contact. He really tried to change his life, he just doesn't get empathy and he will never understand how fragile his ego really is.
Narcs don't even have insight in regards to how their 💩 behavior causes a problem for THEMSELVES...They only understand that they cause damage to others but don't care due to the lack of empathy.The only way to currently cure NPD is when the 🧠 matter either rots away or is 🔥 after ☠️ unfortunately.I really do wish they had the capacity to genuinely 👀 inward & start to change but it just doesn't exist for them😮💨.
I honestly don't think they can change. I think they can control their behavior to a certain extent, but that's just them doing what is good for them. I think they can feel regret about the consequences of their actions, but are incapable of feeling true remorse for the harm they do. This is why I won't ever again have a close relationship with a certain family member.
No words can articulate how much you’ve helped me and created the awareness of what I’ve gone thru for decades. And importantly provided answers to my questions. You’ve given me hope. I’m thankful that one person understands.
Lots of people here do, unfortunately. Narcissistic abuse is intentionally isolating, plus it is a strange story to tell people who have never experienced it. It's not even something most people can explain while still in the relationship, only after in hindsight. Take care, and know that you definitely are not alone. ❤
"you're not allowed to bring up the stuff in the past but they'll do it all the time". Should be part of the definition of a narcissist one of the first sentences in the paragraph.
Again, Dr. Ramani, it feels like you were witness to me conversations over the last week! As discouraging as it is to be reminded they won't change, It is so validating of my experience. Thank you
Yes, I have witnessed what a head injury can do; they got worse, much worse. Their love bombing cycle shortened while the devaluing cycle got longer. Their gaslighting, blame projecting, and rage increased by many, many times compared to what it was before their Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). After the TBI, things just got worse with the passing of each month and years.
Yes, Dr. Ramani, it is important to pay attention to the behaviour when things aren't going so well, as opposed to on a good day!! This made me scream out loud! I now see the truth!! Thank you Dr. Ramani!!❤
Radical acceptance. They are what they are. You gotta grieve these people while they’re still alive. And for the parents you deserved instead of the abusers you got.
"Poor self-reflective capacity", lolzzz.... that's a really nice way of putting it. Someone else - I think Kurt Vonnegut - once referred to someone as being "Unencumbered by self awareness". 😂
This is an eye opener. I’m the type of person who sifts out the truth and calmly gets my point across. When insults are slung I don’t react. Not even a little bit. I tried to get my point across to a narcissist and it was literally impossible. This is a very interesting topic and I’m horrified at what people are going through in their personal homes.
Thank you! Yes, amen! There are parts of me still trying to integrate this truth, because as I attempt to make new friends and chosen family, and as I attempt to improve my boundaries and self love/care, I am still finding myself giving all the benefits of the doubt fueled by the subconscious erroneous childlike mindset that everyone is eager to improve themselves and be good for other people in their lives. I now know in my head that isn't true, but I still need consistent reminders that what you see is often the BEST you'll ever get from someone else.
Thank you for saying that. The covert smiled and smiled and smiled while "just trying to help" and was pure evil underneath and beside closed doors. Much of my family is still in utter denial. "He was such a nice guy." So wasn't.
They maybe don't start that way or show it off in public. They are toxic as hell at home and in private. And likely to get more malignant and less careful about privacy as they age. 🙁
A narcissist in a relationship can be likened to a mirage in a desert. At first glance, their charm and charisma may appear like an oasis, drawing you in with the promise of fulfillment and love. However, as you get closer, you realize it’s all a deceptive illusion. Much like the mirage vanishes upon closer inspection, a narcissist’s self-centeredness and manipulation become increasingly apparent, leaving you emotionally parched and stranded in a barren emotional landscape.
No, I don't think the relationship can change. Personal experience. You either separate yourself from the narcissist and the relationship or accept what it is and realize this is your life.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for telling it like it truly is. I have been on my own now for 26 years from my marriage 20+ yrs spent with an abusive narcissist. I am still healing and still battling nightmares. Watching your channel is really helping me put more and more pieces together. It is also helping me to understand my narcissist mother. Thank You!
"The narcissistic person is nothing more than a hurtful stimulus that the other person in the relationship is almost psychologically wincing, eternally walking on eggshells." 💯
The mind, body, and spirit does not forget the damage caused by narcissistic abuse. In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether or not they change. The damage is done. It only matters that those who survive their abuse, learn to value themselves enough to refuse less than we as survivors, as humans, deserve. It is not in our best interest to continue to be in their presence, regardless of how they might change their behavior. As long as we tolerate their presence, we will be their supply, somehow, someway. That is their prime objective, and it doesn't change. That is their personality, and it doesn't change. Airtight boundaries are the only way we can truly heal and flourish. We must avoid being around narcissists as much as humanly possible. Where there is a will there is a way.
Love your new hair! When I started educating myself and standing up for myself, he tried to change for a while, but yes he needed constant reassurance and encouragement, and the resentment built up in him until he exploded
so sad, so true... How often did I fall for a promise of change? She changes just enough to keep me around. Some changes last for hours, some even for month. Breadcrumbing and future faking combined...
I always find it wild people go through so much work to try and maintain something that was broken from the start. That being said Ive never been one to "fight for a relationship". If you are broken, I toss you out. It is the 21st century. Everyone has infinite options. I don't need the newest/best thing but I do need something that works. That is a realistic expectation
I find it wild that people can say, "if it's broken, I throw it out", when talking about a person. Even if my phone or fridge is broken I try to fix it before throwing it out. I never loved those items, it's only about expense and I care more than to just throw them out. The 21st century sounds sad and cold. True love is patient and long suffering. It doesn't seek it's own. It's rare in this world. 😢
@@americawaters4257 "when talking about a person" Yes. I have my affairs in order. I expect the same from everyone else. "True love is patient and long suffering" No it isn't. That's your view but it is a sad view If you choose to spend your short life collecting and fixing broken things... that's a choice. It is not one I will make. I've got one life. Im going to make it fantastic
@@KAT-dg6el Thank you! See, I avoid all these pitfalls because your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. Turns out being self actualized is the secret sauce People pleasing is a great way to waste your life. Reminder, you don't get another one
Ohhh....6:34-7:10 of this video is pure Gold!!!! The New narcissistic supply! If they make a small change you have to spend the rest of your life praise and rewarding them for not yelling at you!! Dr. Ramani deserves an award for coming up with that analogy! 😂
It is just our wishful thinking that they might change and finally love us back and understand what value the relationship has. We don't want them to be lost. Just like God doesn't want to loose any of his children. We are wired by him. We have the desire to help and rescue that people. But they are too stubborn and maybe afraid to accept that love. And the reason why we stick it out with them for that long ist just because of our good hearts and the love and patience we have to give. We are not perfect by far, but at least we try our best.
What I find cool about these videos is that just knowing the ways of narcissists kind of brings your sanity back. At least halfway ) You can treat their words and actions like some sort of delusion of an insane person, it does not affect you as much anymore.
I finally put my foot down and called the whole thing off. He got the point and “changed”. He is moving out in 4 days and a wake-up. But for the last 3 months since i called it he has “changed” . he continues to terrorize me, threaten me, tower over me, flick lit cigarettes at me and my personal favorite spits on me. But he’ll tell you he’s changed because he hasn’t put his hands on me. According to him problem solved. 😡 Tuesday cannot come soon enough.
They can change, but it's highly difficult. A self-proclaimed narcissist has commented on this on RUclips : they can do behaviour therapy, but their brains is wired differently. They need to have hit a major rock bottom in order to do that, which rarely happens with an ecosystem of flying monkeys.
Oh he changed... For three whole weeks. It came completely out of nowhere, and frankly, it felt worse. I spent the entire time waiting for the other shoe to drop. Part of me feels like it was intentional just to hurt me more, to show me he CAN listen, take accountability, participate, so he'd have one more thing to take away. And he did, and now I'll never trust his kindness again.
My dad was able to learn management skills, and he backsides at predictable times. He's living a much healthier lifestyle and family dynamic, but the rage and control are still causing harm to the people who are closest.
Trying to be friends with a narcissitic ex, like genuine friend, no going back, shows that the dynamic does not change. I wouldn't recommend it. It's all still there, in them, under the surface. And the trauma is in the other person too. You can never let your guard down.
I'd love to hear more about your experience. I'm also at thr point of having to decide to try the friends only route or to let go completely. Would love for you to share more
I’ve just found this channel. This video hit home the most of the ones I’ve watched. It was like she was speaking directly to me. My partner of 30 years said ‘I’m working on changing and if you leave, you won’t get the benefit of the best I’ll ever be’. I hope the change comes and is sustainable but I don’t want to be around to live with it. I fled very recently. The closer it got to me leaving the more escalated it got. I spent all those years trying to balance the waves, keep the peace in the house. The last few months have been like trying to stay on a surf board in a tsunami. Not sustainable for ME. I got out before I drowned.
They don't change because nothing is their fault, so there is no need to change from their perspective. They try to change us to cater to them even more than we already did. I changed by leaving them and never going back. My sage housemate said wisely, "You will be OK as long as you don't go back." She was right. Three years later, I feel all right. My ex-narc boyfriend was in therapy when we were dating, and he said he didn't want to be mean to me, but he was, anyway.
No they can't change. And i feel bad for children with narc parents bc they're gonna give them 1 million chances they don't deserve. My FIL never apologizes. He literally acts like his tantrums and insults never happened. Then my inlaws smile and bring empty gifts. I literally hate being in this cycle.
When the narcissist tries to tell you they've changed, be especially cautious! The risk of letting them back into your is huge! All for the possibility of them changing, which is extremely low. Thanks Dr Ramani!
I believe they will never change. As a scapegoat and years under a few of these toxic souls its in their "body work" and its definitely not a bad bondo job. Bent frame and structural damage and those victims like myself....well we just move forward balancing out reactive abuse and brain fog from the years of manipulation gaslighting and triangulation and multifaceted generational games. As they say " they run in packs". Great video Dr Ramani. Thank you
I was raised by a narc mom, & was made her scapegoat, & then married a narc (42 yrs), not knowing about covert narcissism until the past 2 yrs, what troubles me most about it is,it's their personality. How, exactly, does one go about changing personality? I looked for answers, over decades, as to what was wrong. I found relief, albeit, coupled with grief, to know about narcissism & the narcissistic abuse I'd suffered all my life. I never knew to step away from what hurt me. I tried to explain until I was blue in the face, how I was being hurt & affected. Our best solution is to do what we need to do for ourselves!
I'm in my 70's, and finally distanced myself from family and friends (one of over 50 years) who took advantage of my people pleasing ways (I prefer my kindness, empathy, generosity) for decades; I had enough after being humiliated at a family gathering over a year ago, became livid and called out that particular person. Thanks for your videos which have helped so much (along with others like Dr. Ed Carter), and I'm grateful. Oh, yes, the "hoovering" began, but I've ignored them and enjoyed such wonderful peace of mind. Wish I'd known these truths years ago.
It seems from the clinical evidence that Borderline Personality Disorders can recognize and to some extent work on themselves in order to change their behavior, however the NBPD it seems, is the hardest to change along with the Histrionic NBPD. Even the Psychopath BPD can apparently make a difference in their lives, but, it seems to be a monumental task and may take 2-3 years of intense therapy to do it. They are very broken people and it is very hard putting all those broken pieces back together again. Better for us to work on OURSELVES and be there for us, not them. Never abandon ourselves.
Dr Ramani it's amazing how you shed so much light to so many of us. These videos are my therapy right now as I'm still gathering funds but I can handle alot ever since I subscribed. You are living in your calling, thank you all the way from South Africa ❤
There was a phase when my narcissistic Mom had calmed down and I was wondering if it was really real, also hoping it was real, but still asked myself to remain wary... wait and see, wait and see I told myself.. Sure enough it was all thrown away in a matter of months, at the most, a year.. I felt validated and yet it was nothing to celebrate Thank you once again Dr Ramani for covering this aspect of narcissism...
Changing your personality takes a LOT of work and I think for most (if not all) narcissists the ability to maintain those changes permanently is too great a task. I don't think it's possible long term.
😂 "thanks for not yelling at me" some of my narc mother's older enablers eagerly suggest and expect this to be my reaction towards her if she has a temper-tantrum-free 30 second phone call with me AND for that to be sufficient to "make everything back the way it was" they have no idea still how ridiculous this would be even as a one off much less a lifestyle
No and yes they change some and quickly go back to normal, to live with them you have to change, you have to make a plan to get away and stay way and never ever return. They will never change so don't think you can change them because you figured them out, run run run.
Here's another point I'd like to make. I've know some people in my life, and I'm not perfect either, BUT it seems like some of these people feel unempowered so to speak, and maybe this isn't exactly narcissism, but when they get to be an abusive person, and people allow them to get away with it, to placate the said narcissist, the narcissist says to themselves or feels "this is MY power, and by God I'm not gonna let go of it!!!"
They can change their behavior and actions since they most likely felt shame, but deep down they cannot change. You might see minor changes on the surface at best. You can't expect major and meaningful changes.
Give them a second chance they see your weak spot so yes it will get worse because they’ll use that (whatever they said they get you to go back) for more power.
I replayed this podcast several times at the 5:20 point. I'll listen to this one every day for a bit. How quickly I forget the pain. I'm insecure about my financial situation but looking forward to a new life. (pre-ordered you new book)
I was in my marriage 20+ years. I never even knew about narcissism when I made the leap and filed for divorce. It was messy and scary but OMG I am sooo thankful I did it. I was financially insecure too. He was a monster and controlled every single penny. Bottom line it was a choice between staying and my survival mentally and physically. Best wishes for a new life, you can do this!
@beverlypawsat consider your ability to forget pain , even if for a while , a blessing of sort. In some, pain is always there , 24/7, even with radical acceptance. Only some days more severe than other days
Yes, for the WORSE!
If you don't walk today, you'll have to run tomorrow.
Realize the real lies the narcissist is telling you and get out.
Yep👍🏻! It's foolish to 💭 a person with NPD can change in a healthy way.They really do get worse...Just 👀 at old washed-up narcs in their 60's+ & what nightmares they are😳.
If anyone asks, say it’s your new exercise motto.
@@arlene9480 Oh my gosh that's hilarious😂🤣👍🏻👍🏻.This really should be the new exercise craze.
Absolutely ! The Rage and later the physical abuse. What you don't know is they are stealing your money and hiding financial data. They are LIARS and they only get Worse over Time. Run, don't walk . The BS about forgiveness, forgive yourself for not protecting your Soul, your Body, Your Nervous System, Your Being.
@@malwads1836 I am going through it now. He has only worsen. He is like 64 and at his worst. He won’t let me go 😢😢😢
As the victim of narcissistic abuse, I’ve had to change. I’ve had years of therapy, being in 12 step groups, meditation retreats and read whole sections of books from the self help section of the library. And AS SOMEONE WHO WAS THE VICTIM, it has been extremely difficult. The amount of work, healing the trauma, etc, is actual work. So, hell no I don’t think they can change. They’ve all been extremely lazy. Yeah. Not waiting around for that BS. FOH. Deuces.
Yes the irony is that it's the people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder who are the true sick ones who should be in therapy and doing the work but they end up driving their abuse victims into therapy instead and it's the victims who end up the sickest after the exposure to the narcissist and have to end up adjusting to a world that enables narcissistic abusers while punishing the victims in a type of bizarre heart breaking disturbing never ending episode of Black Mirror or Twilight Zone.
You nailed it👍🏻👍🏻.Just for NORMAL folks it's extremely difficult & time consuming to heal significant trauma like what we get from narcissistic abuse...So imagine an extremely RIGID person like a narc or even a cluster B type in general trying to genuinely heal🙄.1 of the worst aspects of Cluster B personality disorders is their very extreme rigidity, with NPD & ASPD in particular these people will be psychologically BROKEN INTO MERE DUST before ever bending into a new form.They don't bend...Just break in the "best" case scenario🙄🤦♀️.
Are narcissists extremely lazy? My general experience of narcissists is that they are driven, as greed is always a motivator for narcissists, whereas meaning can be stripped away from non narcissists by abuse, thus leaving victims broken and lacking motivation, which could look like laziness. Capitalising stuff in handwriting is a sign of psychopathy, also I've never seen anything to indicate narcissists are lazy, that is not synonymous with personality change, in fact I think the subtext of the video is that narcissists can't change, rather than won't change, also rating people as deuces, seems like a very male and narcissist thing to do, are you really who you claim to be?
It 👀 like your post ticked off a gaslighter projecting type...You know you're on the right track when these types go after you😉👍🏻👍🏻.
@malwads1836 It wasn't intended as gaslighting. It's certainly not incencere or a deliberate attempt to skew anyone's reality on my part. I was really questioning whether it was gas lighting. Your comment on the other hand contains no analysis, or questions, it just passes judgement on me, a person you don't know, so is one hundred percent gaslighting, I suspect that it is deliberate gaslighting and almost certainly projection. Your comment is cynical, and I suspect you have no good intentions in being here.
I already knew they couldn't change. But thanks for the validation.
Remember: the source of your pain can never be the source of your healing. The person hurting you can never heal you.
True.
That's why we should all be focusing on accepting the fact that they can't/won't change and not let their childish behaviour affect us. If you don't react and just ignore their crap they'll have no reason to do it anymore. (I know it's easier said then done, and it doesn't apply to every situation). Somehow i think most narcissist actually thrive from the negative energy they create in you and if you don't give it to them they'll starve. Of course they'll try to come up with new ways but sooner or later they'll give up. Hopefully...
They just change their tactics to get what they want.
Facts 💯
Was about to say
Dang, this is so right on.
Exactly
😔
They change only if there is something in it for them. So the change will not last
Change or not. It changes the victim. Because the damage has been done, you can’t go back. Can’t unsee.
And you will spend a LOT of time realizing all the other ways you've changed in having to accommodate bad behavior from narcissists. 😢
@@cc1k435 💯2 years out and still seeing the changes within myself. Thank you 💕
Exactly. They can change all they want but the trauma that conditioned me to cringe at the thought of being with them again will not change.
@@LeipuananiI’m here right now. They can promise to change. They might go to therapy to change. But he’s asking me to love him again..? To feel secure with him??? I’ve experienced too much. I don’t think it’s possible. He wants me to go to therapy to learn how to love him again. I haven’t got it in me..
@BexS77 This is hoovering. Empty promises to get you back and it's all lies. Not only that, it will get worse.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them -- the first time.
"Im trying to be nice to you.... cant you give me credit for that?"
Either they'll change or not its none of our business. The moment you discover who they really are, just save your self and run. There's still a lot of good people out there.
It is our business to protect ourselves from soul sucking sadistic monsters. I feel for those who share children with them as it makes is it a gazillion times more difficult to completely sever a relationship.
Amen!
I think Ali means this but without children being in the situation. She can only heal herself + it doesn’t matter why her abuser won’t change. Everyone has to do what they can to heal. I’m still trying to heal + I shudder to think if I had children - and if they were even involved. I think she’d consider herself + children if she had any
Its like they are lizard people - animals wearing human masks.
If it was only that easy.
In my experience, they don’t change nor take accountability. It’s awful. I expect nothing from them and keep my boundaries. I almost find the enablers worse who expect you to give narcissists never ending chances and ‘be forgiving’ no matter what they do. Prioritizing my safety and well being no matter what anyone else says. Thank you Dr Ramani❤
My ex inlaws expected me to be the good wife and do this into perpetuity. I bailed on the marriage and never regretted it for a moment---yet, they treated me as a pariah for leaving. What a bunch of wackos.
THIS ^^^
People who expect us to just put up with the narcissistic abuse forever and not walk away… they are just as guilty as the narcissist in my opinion.
Spot on we've got a son hooked up with one,she has tried to abuse the three of us and he seems to think we should cop it.we ARE NOW NO CONTACT WITH BOTH OF THEM.
@@GGVanilla .....true they're all guilty of being accomplices, certainly in my case but feel no remorse at all. It's all about their feelings, image and ego. (Btw, I love your avatar. Fellow cat fan here too.)
@@robbrewer2036 this is where I am at sadly with my brother and his wife. Hard when my family invites them to dinners and pressures me to be friendly with them no matter what abusive toxic things they do. It’s not ok. It breaks my heart but my safety and well being matter too. Thank you for sharing. 🙏
Left an abusive marriage 51 days ago with a narcissist. It’s been daily torture since I left but I feel free and I know it’s going to work out for the best
Stay strong 🍀
You can do it! It's probably the hardest thing to do in your life but it's definitely worth it! You'll be free and happy and full of love for yourself and you deserve all that ❤
Has he been love bombing you? Promising everything you ever wanted? Guilt tripping you? Or is he leaving you alone? Do you guys have kids? Do you sometimes want to go back?
@ohcyncyn love bombing came in the first week but he realized pretty quickly that I wasn't falling for it and then got angry. After 2 weeks, he completely cut me off all joint finances and money is not an issue for us (although it is for me now) he locked me completely out of the house and I've been broke and homeless since (I'm staying with a friend and am waiting to get into a property we own) It's been 55 days of torture - EVERY DAY! I'm staying strong and a couple steps ahead at every turn :)
All the best... mental damage is tough to get over as it's healing from within with issues that are so complicated and intertwined
My narc husband has been in therapy for nearly 2 years. His violent yelling and physical explosions have stopped, but the gaslighting and manipulation have escalated to unbelievable levels. I believe they can have the motivation to change, but they just cannot change their nature- lack of empathy, control, turning everything into their supply, the whole shebang.
Cannot change their nature...you hit the mail on the head!
So glad seeing this today as me and my boyfriend just broke up today and he kept making promises and speaking of all the changes he made. I pointed out yes he had made changes but no matter how long it takes or how well he behaves the scary man that says he will K me still pops up and he wants so much credit for simply doing the right thing. I said to him, you talk about how much you tryyyy and trrrryyyyy but you feel like you have to TRYYYY so hard just to simply do the right thing. My guy, it’s not in you. His mind nor his heart has changed, just his behavior had merely improved or more like been inhibited. This is not true change. I love him dearly, but I am letting him go.
The narcissism is a disorder of thinking you are more awesome than you are so it’s not a surprise they don’t change. Why would they change what they think is really great and awesome? It’s everyone else’s problem that we don’t like their poor behavior.
Seek Jesus… stop going to therapy
I think they have to hit serious rock bottom in order to change, and they will always backslide to what worked as a narcissist when things get overwhelming for them. I also think it's impossible if they're a sadistic narcissist, who enjoys hurting people or hurts people to make themself feel better.
They don't change as a person after rock bottom. They change tactics. Just look at all the self aware narcissists on RUclips using their disorder to "help" others. It's just a new tactic to extract supply. "You can thank me for being brave about being honest about the fact that I'm a self admitted abuser addict, now buy my course and support me belittling you for being gullible and pathetic for having no ability to end a relationship with a different narcissist."
Is that not every narcissist?
@@BondofOblivionGood point. I believe they are all sadistic too.
@@BondofOblivionFor narcs sociopathy is merely a baby step for them so a LOT of them end up slipping down that slippery slope...These are the ones that derive pleasure/ amusement/satisfaction in 👀 others struggle/suffer even if they're completely innocent people that they don't know on the news for example.All the ones I've personally 👀 were like this😬.
Play it safe. Never allow a narcissist back into your life. Maybe a 2% chance of real change. I will never place that bet.
One of the things that narcs can do that *looks* like change is to learn how to tolerate being nicer for longer and more intensely. They then use this in their transactional state of mind to compel their supply to condone the narc's other crap.
"You wanted me to do x and I did it, right??? I did it nine times, right???? So you can't complain now that I'm doing y because I did x for you a whole nine times!!"
No,just the same cycles over and over! Get out if you can. Do not expect empathy and care! Go no contact, evil people just learn to fake better!
The so-called changes and apologies initiated by narcissists are all transactional, period. They expect nothing less than positive feedback and rewards after the "effort" they made FOR YOU. Yes, for you. Not for improving themselves or making themselves better human beings.
This hit home today. My Mom has said, in earnest "I'm the greatest parent that has ever lived" so when my siblings and I stopped talking to her, it shattered her mask and she hit rock bottom. In her recent campaign to win us back, I've seen all sorts of behaviours I have never seen before - a few days ago, she actually apologized (!!!!) and while the apology was nice, it was only a means to an end because she otherwise remains the same person: cruel, manipulative and entitled. These slight behaviour modifications have been extra hard because we all want so badly to believe that Mom is capable of change.
My parents both do this sort of thing. A token apology that doesn't come with change. I think they do it so they can tell the others in their life "I don't understand my son, I apologized even though it wasn't my fault to try to appease them but they still won't come around. Pray for me." Victim card to rope others into their network of abuse.
Absolutely - one insincere apology in an entire lifetime of cruelty and they are once again the great patron saint of morality and martyrdom @@TheRealMonnie
You nailed it! The significance of those slight behaviour changes. Which of course are totally calculated and manipulative. Like a love bombing. Giving little glimmers of hope. To guilt/shame ourselves..? Desperately scrambling for their scapegoat. smh🙏🕊
I can't imagine going back because 3 years showed me that change never stuck. Why do I want to go back to someone I can't trust? I don't!
i wish i was as strong as you!
@@memeleelove one day you’ll wake up and you’ll be tired . You will get there .
@@memeleelove same…. I do wanna go back 😩 just one time… just to say my piece and say goodbye . I hate this .
He changed, but so did his narcissistic traits, to new narcissistic tactics.
Only I can change my life.. no one can do it for me. It's a myth that they can change.
This is gold. Accurate description of my experience. I’m currently separated and trying to get divorced. We separated a year prior. He made some behavior modifications of which I conditionally applauded but never was able to mend what was broken. I’m just trying to heal from all the damage and finally coming out of the fog. Thank you for your videos!
I wish you success and healing.
So you left, and *then* he modified his behavior? Or did he modify as a last-ditch effort to keep you from separating? Just wondering about the timing, as my situation could unfold similarly at some point.
Do yourself AND the narcissist in your life a favor: be the possible catalyst for their change by leaving them!
Yes, if the situation aligns to break free and or minimize contact to the absolute minimum. I’m one of those lucky people and with the help of Dr Ramani, I’m absolutely clear on not letting them back into my life. Their brains are wired in a way that change is not real change but rather some pose in their superficial world.
@@BSharp369 I'm glad you got free! Good wishes to you! ❤
@bellaluce7088, and whatever you do dont appear to be too knowledgeable and steal their glory. Their pride cant take it..
They have to be the one's that know. Your are subservient to them by default.. If you fail to do so, they will surely ignore you and deem you the narcissist, Guaranteed they will come up with a convincing reason to those who are gullible.
@@Lillyflower-J88 "You're subservient to them by default" reads like a curse in my current state of mind, though I'm sure your comment was well-intentioned. This is why having nothing to do with them is the best option if possible. NO ONE should have to dim their light to make these pathetic demons feel better about themselves and avoid their retribution.
Our time on this planet is precious, and we are meant for better things!
As someone that is in therapy to address my narcissistic behaviors, i want to apologize to those that have been victimized by narcissists. My wife dealt with my abuse for 10 years and has suffered mental-cognitive function, memory loss, internal health problems, heart problems, PTSD, and these are just the things I remember; all from my lying, gaslighting, insults, apathy, devaluing and invalidating her. Why not feeling bad about what I was doing when I was doing it, I feel that now I have a small sliver of understanding what I’ve done. We’ve decided on a divorce but not before it has cost her long-term health, relationships with friends, family and kids/grandkids, the ability to work and support herself. I believe myself to be a horrible person. I am seeking therapy. And I know that narcissist need a supply. I am, however, reluctant to seek validation from outside sources via this source for the fear that I may hurt someone else. Dr. is spot on with how much hurt and abuse I’ve caused her. I have also done the future-fake and other traits she’s mentioned here.
I had the most painful experience of hoping he would change. He even agreed to go to an abusive men's group and see a therapist. He would go out to his office to do his group calls and little by little he had joined more and more groups and something started to feel off. He was making friends and chatting with all these different people. Not like so and so and I are working on similar issues and supporting each other, but more like he's going to the virtual brewery and hanging out with new friends. He would come back in all happy and bouncy and had clearly been drinking. It was so awful to watch! I slowly realized he was not serious about doing any work to change, but rather had found a new way to get his supply needs met under the guise of working on this abusive behavior. The realization was soul crushing!
I feel for you. Mine went to a group therapy but it didn't help one bit. Instead, she found a new source of supply there so she could make herself look like the victim and me like the abuser. A very painful and extremely confusing experience. I thought I would go insane. My family and my therapist helped me so much, otherwise, I'd have lost touch with my reality.
@@agataK7830Im still there at the lost tough w reality bit 😢 trying not to go back but I can’t stop thinking about my ex. If he’s s true narc or just has some of the traits
I do not believe that a Narcissist can change, I however I believe that a narcissist can end up in a relationship where the partner can fulfill the correct amount or type of Supply that the narcissist needs to be happy. it can be like a cure, and in some instances even be long term.
Thank you DR. Ramani, you have been the most help for me and my children during all the stages of this process. from realizing that I needed help.. Till now 4 years latter, Divorced happy and thriving...
“Thanks for not yelling at me…”. My thoughts lately , like he should be thanked for the common decency expected from anyone.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. It makes me feel sad to think they can't change, even with high motivation. In my experience, there might be a temporary impression they've actually improved their behaviour. It happened in my relationship and lasted several months! Unfortunately, that was caused by the presence of another person, a new supply. I almost fell for it.
Yep they can make TEMPORARY changes, it's usually done out of desperation to try to avoid losing a source of supply or material resources they need🤢.
Their change is a facade to get something. Remember, their motives are always self serving.
I’m sorry to hear this ❤️🩹
@@mezlandia ♥
@@ericb8413 TRUTH
I've been to the point where I don't care if they change or not in any of their life besides to stop messing with my life.
A narcissist’s definition of change is to manipulate change into more of their cruelty and that is not changeable.
It is not realistic to expect change, especially if you continually acquiesce and let the relationship take that course for so long. Once the patterns have been set, they are very hard to break up.
It’s interesting that a narcissist must always bend any aspect of their life, even therapy for narcissism, toward narcissism.
It's like the narcissist wants credit for change up front, rather than just letting a history of having changed let the other person trust them. It’s like they want up-front credit for changing as a condition of changing and keeping the changes. "You have to admire and appreciate that one thing I just did differently." Meanwhile, they offer no 'validation' to the other person for having put up with so much already.
Nailed it.
My critical, demeaning narcissistic spouse "changed" almost a year ago - when I finally said that I was seriously thinking about exiting the marriage due to all of the lousy behavior. So far there has been no significant backsliding, and yet now I feel stuck in the marriage because, even with the recent "good" behavior, the net result of all of that terrible behavior on the part of my spouse over the years has left me feeling quite distant and disappointed. In other words, I'm still "there" - but emotionally I'm not.
This is exactly what I am scared of with my narc wife. She still doesn't seem to have changed despite separation. She seems to be agreeing to things to work on at a surface level, but then her true colors show. I don't know how I could ever trust her enough to go back, if all of the changes are surface level. The "being there" is a struggle , because there is no trust, and the abusive nature actually makes me scared to be around her now.
🙌 Yes! Possibility doesn’t equal probability… and though I DO believe in the human ability to grow and change, it’s an individual spiritual revelation/decision and effort in going with the grow. No human can impose change on another… we can’t love them enough, explain enough, give enough, show enough so… unconditional love NOT unconditional relationship ❤
I really needed this. My younger brother just passed in a car accident and my narcissistic mom tried to reach out to me after two years of no contact with her. Several people were pressuring me into trying to make amends, check on her, or to be the "bigger person". When she reached out I immediately knew she hadn't changed and I didn't fall into that trap again. It's good to know I am not wrong in how I feel and how I am treating the situation.
Be the bigger person, forgive & forget, she’s your mom, why do you have to be this way, what did you do to her, what did she really ever do to you.
If it didn’t happen to them they think it really didn’t happen to you.
Thanks for sharing
Please forgive your mom. If your mother dies you will regret not talking to her for the rest of your life.
@@anthoniaekwuocha8770 she tried messaging me the other day, and immediately went into trying manipulate/gaslight me. I honestly think I'd be ok never talking to her again.
It’s funny how they cape for her and also ask you to be the better person all while some of them may have entertained her gossip of you. I just realized these people are so weak bc why do they speak to us as if they know nothing or they don’t wanna get in it or they say she has changed so much but yet they are more afraid to ask her to be the bigger person. It’s bc not so deep inside they know who the more problematic person is and they know who the more agreeable person is. Bc all the while they’ve called you this and that they still feel more comfortable to come to you than their friend ( narc mama/papa/sibling/whoever) to be the bigger person and not the one they are in regular communication with! Flying monkeys! Forgive but do not be fooled! I believe in the Bible and there is a scripture that says be as shrewd as snakes and as gentle as doves.
I don’t think they can and even if they could I don’t think I could find enough trust to believe one more promise.
This video has me crying. This narc relationship I’m in cannot change. Too many crimes against me have been committed without any justice. Just a new day, no apology/acknowledgment or conversation over it. It’s so hurtful 😢
Here's my take on it: unless the narcissists has an epiphany, catharsis, that soul searching moment were they finally realize, truly realize how rotten they are to everyone in their orbit, they're probably not going to have that "I finally get it" moment. It's going to take a lot of inward retrospect and empathy.
I believe epiphanies don't work the same in narcissistic folks. My father had one when he divorced my mother and changed completely, for everyone's surprise. But now I know that he only changed the narcissistic style: went from covert to grandiouse. He's still overly selfish and superficial and he would still throw tantrums whenever he'd be out of supply. It took me so long to get it. Now I went no contact. He really tried to change his life, he just doesn't get empathy and he will never understand how fragile his ego really is.
An epiphany can't change the way a whole personality is built. It can only change a few behavior patterns but the foundations remain the same.
Narcs don't even have insight in regards to how their 💩 behavior causes a problem for THEMSELVES...They only understand that they cause damage to others but don't care due to the lack of empathy.The only way to currently cure NPD is when the 🧠 matter either rots away or is 🔥 after ☠️ unfortunately.I really do wish they had the capacity to genuinely 👀 inward & start to change but it just doesn't exist for them😮💨.
I’m in my 60s and have never seen a narcissist change.
No soul to search 🤦♀️
I honestly don't think they can change. I think they can control their behavior to a certain extent, but that's just them doing what is good for them.
I think they can feel regret about the consequences of their actions, but are incapable of feeling true remorse for the harm they do.
This is why I won't ever again have a close relationship with a certain family member.
No words can articulate how much you’ve helped me and created the awareness of what I’ve gone thru for decades. And importantly provided answers to my questions. You’ve given me hope. I’m thankful that one person understands.
Lots of people here do, unfortunately. Narcissistic abuse is intentionally isolating, plus it is a strange story to tell people who have never experienced it. It's not even something most people can explain while still in the relationship, only after in hindsight. Take care, and know that you definitely are not alone. ❤
"you're not allowed to bring up the stuff in the past but they'll do it all the time". Should be part of the definition of a narcissist one of the first sentences in the paragraph.
Again, Dr. Ramani, it feels like you were witness to me conversations over the last week! As discouraging as it is to be reminded they won't change, It is so validating of my experience. Thank you
Dr Ramani is the GOAT! She said only a head injury could change their personality, and or behavior. EPIC!! YOU GO DOCTOR!!
It there is no guarantee that head trauma may change the behaviour for the better, it may make it worse!!
Beware of a sick narcissist !!
The whole premise of the movie Regarding Henry. 😂
Yes, I have witnessed what a head injury can do; they got worse, much worse. Their love bombing cycle shortened while the devaluing cycle got longer. Their gaslighting, blame projecting, and rage increased by many, many times compared to what it was before their Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). After the TBI, things just got worse with the passing of each month and years.
Maybe shock therapy
Mine did have a head injury, only made it worse. @@4eversearch
The truth of it is, the victims/survivors of Narcissistic Abuse are the ones who have been changed and have had to change.
Everyone and everything changes. But you can't expect a narcissist or a narcissistic relationship to change for the better.
The first part is bingo. Enabling is an enormous barrier to change.
Never think they would change -is the golden rule to protect yourself from them❤
Yes, Dr. Ramani, it is important to pay attention to the behaviour when things aren't going so well, as opposed to on a good day!! This made me scream out loud! I now see the truth!! Thank you Dr. Ramani!!❤
Radical acceptance. They are what they are. You gotta grieve these people while they’re still alive. And for the parents you deserved instead of the abusers you got.
"Poor self-reflective capacity", lolzzz.... that's a really nice way of putting it. Someone else - I think Kurt Vonnegut - once referred to someone as being "Unencumbered by self awareness". 😂
This is an eye opener. I’m the type of person who sifts out the truth and calmly gets my point across. When insults are slung I don’t react. Not even a little bit. I tried to get my point across to a narcissist and it was literally impossible. This is a very interesting topic and I’m horrified at what people are going through in their personal homes.
Thank you! Yes, amen! There are parts of me still trying to integrate this truth, because as I attempt to make new friends and chosen family, and as I attempt to improve my boundaries and self love/care, I am still finding myself giving all the benefits of the doubt fueled by the subconscious erroneous childlike mindset that everyone is eager to improve themselves and be good for other people in their lives. I now know in my head that isn't true, but I still need consistent reminders that what you see is often the BEST you'll ever get from someone else.
Coverts don’t scream….. but just as hurtful. Evil lives inside them all !!!!
Yes they do scream yell and are physically abusive too
yes they do all of those things just not as often as grandiose
Thank you for saying that. The covert smiled and smiled and smiled while "just trying to help" and was pure evil underneath and beside closed doors. Much of my family is still in utter denial. "He was such a nice guy." So wasn't.
@@mistiblu9133 YES, Absolutely 💯
They maybe don't start that way or show it off in public. They are toxic as hell at home and in private. And likely to get more malignant and less careful about privacy as they age. 🙁
My gosh, thank you soooo much for this. You added a nuance that I needed to hear. "can they change enough and/or for any length of time".
Needed this today. Mom texted me a week ago and "misses" me. It's like kriptonite.
First rule of business: The way things start is the way things go.
A narcissist in a relationship can be likened to a mirage in a desert. At first glance, their charm and charisma may appear like an oasis, drawing you in with the promise of fulfillment and love. However, as you get closer, you realize it’s all a deceptive illusion. Much like the mirage vanishes upon closer inspection, a narcissist’s self-centeredness and manipulation become increasingly apparent, leaving you emotionally parched and stranded in a barren emotional landscape.
Yes ,for the worst. They double down as they get older😢
No, I don't think the relationship can change. Personal experience. You either separate yourself from the narcissist and the relationship or accept what it is and realize this is your life.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for telling it like it truly is. I have been on my own now for 26 years from my marriage 20+ yrs spent with an abusive narcissist. I am still healing and still battling nightmares. Watching your channel is really helping me put more and more pieces together. It is also helping me to understand my narcissist mother. Thank You!
"The narcissistic person is nothing more than a hurtful stimulus that the other person in the relationship is almost psychologically wincing, eternally walking on eggshells." 💯
yea exactly right
The mind, body, and spirit does not forget the damage caused by narcissistic abuse. In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether or not they change. The damage is done. It only matters that those who survive their abuse, learn to value themselves enough to refuse less than we as survivors, as humans, deserve. It is not in our best interest to continue to be in their presence, regardless of how they might change their behavior. As long as we tolerate their presence, we will be their supply, somehow, someway. That is their prime objective, and it doesn't change. That is their personality, and it doesn't change. Airtight boundaries are the only way we can truly heal and flourish. We must avoid being around narcissists as much as humanly possible. Where there is a will there is a way.
Love your new hair!
When I started educating myself and standing up for myself, he tried to change for a while, but yes he needed constant reassurance and encouragement, and the resentment built up in him until he exploded
so sad, so true... How often did I fall for a promise of change? She changes just enough to keep me around. Some changes last for hours, some even for month. Breadcrumbing and future faking combined...
I always find it wild people go through so much work to try and maintain something that was broken from the start.
That being said Ive never been one to "fight for a relationship". If you are broken, I toss you out. It is the 21st century. Everyone has infinite options. I don't need the newest/best thing but I do need something that works. That is a realistic expectation
I find it wild that people can say, "if it's broken, I throw it out", when talking about a person. Even if my phone or fridge is broken I try to fix it before throwing it out. I never loved those items, it's only about expense and I care more than to just throw them out.
The 21st century sounds sad and cold.
True love is patient and long suffering. It doesn't seek it's own. It's rare in this world. 😢
@@americawaters4257 "when talking about a person" Yes. I have my affairs in order. I expect the same from everyone else.
"True love is patient and long suffering" No it isn't. That's your view but it is a sad view
If you choose to spend your short life collecting and fixing broken things... that's a choice. It is not one I will make. I've got one life. Im going to make it fantastic
That's how Jesus loves. ❤️
He fixed my broken life. He saved me with patient, forgiving, selfless love.
@@americawaters4257 Look how he ended up. Nailed to a cross. Not where I want to end up
@@KAT-dg6el Thank you! See, I avoid all these pitfalls because your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. Turns out being self actualized is the secret sauce
People pleasing is a great way to waste your life. Reminder, you don't get another one
Ohhh....6:34-7:10 of this video is pure Gold!!!! The New narcissistic supply!
If they make a small change you have to spend the rest of your life praise and rewarding them for not yelling at you!!
Dr. Ramani deserves an award for coming up with that analogy! 😂
It is just our wishful thinking that they might change and finally love us back and understand what value the relationship has. We don't want them to be lost. Just like God doesn't want to loose any of his children. We are wired by him. We have the desire to help and rescue that people. But they are too stubborn and maybe afraid to accept that love. And the reason why we stick it out with them for that long ist just because of our good hearts and the love and patience we have to give. We are not perfect by far, but at least we try our best.
What I find cool about these videos is that just knowing the ways of narcissists kind of brings your sanity back. At least halfway ) You can treat their words and actions like some sort of delusion of an insane person, it does not affect you as much anymore.
I finally put my foot down and called the whole thing off. He got the point and “changed”. He is moving out in 4 days and a wake-up. But for the last 3 months since i called it he has “changed” . he continues to terrorize me, threaten me, tower over me, flick lit cigarettes at me and my personal favorite spits on me. But he’ll tell you he’s changed because he hasn’t put his hands on me. According to him problem solved. 😡 Tuesday cannot come soon enough.
They can change, but it's highly difficult. A self-proclaimed narcissist has commented on this on RUclips : they can do behaviour therapy, but their brains is wired differently. They need to have hit a major rock bottom in order to do that, which rarely happens with an ecosystem of flying monkeys.
Oh he changed... For three whole weeks. It came completely out of nowhere, and frankly, it felt worse. I spent the entire time waiting for the other shoe to drop. Part of me feels like it was intentional just to hurt me more, to show me he CAN listen, take accountability, participate, so he'd have one more thing to take away. And he did, and now I'll never trust his kindness again.
They don't change.. I have lived long enough to see this for myself. Actions and Energy speak louder than words. 🙌💖
My dad was able to learn management skills, and he backsides at predictable times. He's living a much healthier lifestyle and family dynamic, but the rage and control are still causing harm to the people who are closest.
Trying to be friends with a narcissitic ex, like genuine friend, no going back, shows that the dynamic does not change. I wouldn't recommend it. It's all still there, in them, under the surface. And the trauma is in the other person too. You can never let your guard down.
I'd love to hear more about your experience. I'm also at thr point of having to decide to try the friends only route or to let go completely. Would love for you to share more
I’ve just found this channel. This video hit home the most of the ones I’ve watched. It was like she was speaking directly to me. My partner of 30 years said ‘I’m working on changing and if you leave, you won’t get the benefit of the best I’ll ever be’. I hope the change comes and is sustainable but I don’t want to be around to live with it. I fled very recently. The closer it got to me leaving the more escalated it got. I spent all those years trying to balance the waves, keep the peace in the house. The last few months have been like trying to stay on a surf board in a tsunami. Not sustainable for ME. I got out before I drowned.
They don't change because nothing is their fault, so there is no need to change from their perspective. They try to change us to cater to them even more than we already did. I changed by leaving them and never going back. My sage housemate said wisely, "You will be OK as long as you don't go back." She was right. Three years later, I feel all right. My ex-narc boyfriend was in therapy when we were dating, and he said he didn't want to be mean to me, but he was, anyway.
Yeah, it becomes emotionally draining for the recipient of the change, if at all.
No they can't change. And i feel bad for children with narc parents bc they're gonna give them 1 million chances they don't deserve. My FIL never apologizes. He literally acts like his tantrums and insults never happened. Then my inlaws smile and bring empty gifts. I literally hate being in this cycle.
After 31 years of marriage I looked at growing old with this inattentive, entitled person & it's terrifying. I'm not doing it.
timestamp 5:46 to ~ 7: 38 dr.r "...narcissisTIC folks *want alot of credit* when they *'get it right one time'...* " 😆🤣
When the narcissist tries to tell you they've changed, be especially cautious! The risk of letting them back into your is huge! All for the possibility of them changing, which is extremely low. Thanks Dr Ramani!
I believe they will never change. As a scapegoat and years under a few of these toxic souls its in their "body work" and its definitely not a bad bondo job. Bent frame and structural damage and those victims like myself....well we just move forward balancing out reactive abuse and brain fog from the years of manipulation gaslighting and triangulation and multifaceted generational games. As they say " they run in packs".
Great video Dr Ramani. Thank you
He wanted a gold medal and a trophy for remembering my birthday
And they will resent you every time they have to hold back and act like a decent person.
I was raised by a narc mom, & was made her scapegoat, & then married a narc (42 yrs), not knowing about covert narcissism until the past 2 yrs, what troubles me most about it is,it's their personality. How, exactly, does one go about changing personality? I looked for answers, over decades, as to what was wrong. I found relief, albeit, coupled with grief, to know about narcissism & the narcissistic abuse I'd suffered all my life. I never knew to step away from what hurt me. I tried to explain until I was blue in the face, how I was being hurt & affected. Our best solution is to do what we need to do for ourselves!
Mine changed…he got WORSE! Over 20 years of marriage. That’s over now thank God.
I'm in my 70's, and finally distanced myself from family and friends (one of over 50 years) who took advantage of my people pleasing ways (I prefer my kindness, empathy, generosity) for decades; I had enough after being humiliated at a family gathering over a year ago, became livid and called out that particular person. Thanks for your videos which have helped so much (along with others like Dr. Ed Carter), and I'm grateful. Oh, yes, the "hoovering" began, but I've ignored them and enjoyed such wonderful peace of mind. Wish I'd known these truths years ago.
never too late for some peace..
It seems from the clinical evidence that Borderline Personality Disorders can recognize and to some extent work on themselves in order to change their behavior, however the NBPD it seems, is the hardest to change along with the Histrionic NBPD. Even the Psychopath BPD can apparently make a difference in their lives, but, it seems to be a monumental task and may take 2-3 years of intense therapy to do it. They are very broken people and it is very hard putting all those broken pieces back together again. Better for us to work on OURSELVES and be there for us, not them. Never abandon ourselves.
Dr Ramani it's amazing how you shed so much light to so many of us. These videos are my therapy right now as I'm still gathering funds but I can handle alot ever since I subscribed. You are living in your calling, thank you all the way from South Africa ❤
There was a phase when my narcissistic Mom had calmed down and I was wondering if it was really real, also hoping it was real, but still asked myself to remain wary... wait and see, wait and see I told myself..
Sure enough it was all thrown away in a matter of months, at the most, a year..
I felt validated and yet it was nothing to celebrate
Thank you once again Dr Ramani for covering this aspect of narcissism...
Changing your personality takes a LOT of work and I think for most (if not all) narcissists the ability to maintain those changes permanently is too great a task. I don't think it's possible long term.
😂 "thanks for not yelling at me"
some of my narc mother's older enablers eagerly suggest and expect this to be my reaction towards her if she has a temper-tantrum-free 30 second phone call with me AND for that to be sufficient to "make everything back the way it was"
they have no idea still how ridiculous this would be even as a one off much less a lifestyle
No and yes they change some and quickly go back to normal, to live with them you have to change, you have to make a plan to get away and stay way and never ever return. They will never change so don't think you can change them because you figured them out, run run run.
Wow! This was a great discussion and I appreciate the feedback so much! I look forward for the movie!
It took me more than 6 and a half yrs to think normally to get over the abuse of hardly 6 yrs of narcissistic relationship
That sounds about right, since 1) no one can waste time for you like a narcissist, and 2) their "work" tends to continue long after they're gone. 🫣
Here's another point I'd like to make. I've know some people in my life, and I'm not perfect either, BUT it seems like some of these people feel unempowered so to speak, and maybe this isn't exactly narcissism, but when they get to be an abusive person, and people allow them to get away with it, to placate the said narcissist, the narcissist says to themselves or feels "this is MY power, and by God I'm not gonna let go of it!!!"
They can change their behavior and actions since they most likely felt shame, but deep down they cannot change. You might see minor changes on the surface at best. You can't expect major and meaningful changes.
If I learned anything from giving a narcissist a second chance is to don't. And they become worse and crazier so run and never look back.
Give them a second chance they see your weak spot so yes it will get worse because they’ll use that (whatever they said they get you to go back) for more power.
Speaking from experience a snake can change it's skin, but a snake will still be a snake.
I replayed this podcast several times at the 5:20 point. I'll listen to this one every day for a bit. How quickly I forget the pain. I'm insecure about my financial situation but looking forward to a new life. (pre-ordered you new book)
I was in my marriage 20+ years. I never even knew about narcissism when I made the leap and filed for divorce. It was messy and scary but OMG I am sooo thankful I did it. I was financially insecure too. He was a monster and controlled every single penny. Bottom line it was a choice between staying and my survival mentally and physically.
Best wishes for a new life, you can do this!
@beverlypawsat consider your ability to forget pain , even if for a while , a blessing of sort. In some, pain is always there , 24/7, even with radical acceptance.
Only some days more severe than other days
Absolutely not!! A narrcisst will never change!!!