What's inside a compact Type A Hager RCBO
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- Опубликовано: 12 апр 2020
- Total teardown of a Hager 20A Type A compact RCBO. Sent in by JP Electrical, / jpelectrical4
This is a combined device, with a circuit breaker section to trip on overload or short circuit, and a Type A 30mA RCD section which reacts to AC and pulsed DC waveforms.
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Наука
15R resistor is to protect the MOV from surges, and then the black wire through the coil is there to enable the unit to trip safely off when the MOV conducts enough, either from an over voltage event ( loss of neutral in system) or sistained high spikes from arcing cables in the system. Thus provides protection against overvoltage for both the load and the breaker at the same time.
The red PTC thermistor looks like it does the test trip, starting at a current that will trip, then heating up so it passes a constant current irrespective of mains voltage, though it probably also will go open at some higher temperature to prevent burning out if the test button is left pressed.
The trip element is the black coated unit by the coil, likely a triac that shorts the coil across the mains, operating till it trips the breaker, and probably using the PTC unit to limit the current as well.
The current in the black wire is subtracted as the live feed for the electronics is via the red wire and resistor. The yellow is the test wire.
I use pretty much only these when doing consumer unit changes now, they are excellent. Very reliable.
If the black wire didn't go through the sense coil there would be an inbalance as the circuit board takes it's power from the red/brown wire. It's probably only a very small amount used on the sense circuit, but may be enough to trip.
Weeble Wobble You don’t want the PCB supply taken from the output side. So putting the thin wire thru cancels it out.
Circuit draws a tiny current, probably under 10mA, so a lot less than the trip current. However you want the blue VDR to pass current on high mains, so that the breaker trips, so you pass the black wire through the coil so the higher imbalanced current will trip it when that happens, same with the test wire, which also passes current through.. Likely there is a slight difference in sensitivity on each half cycle, but likely that is compensated in the trip circuit anyway.
Cheers John, informative as always. You need a trip to Hagers factory in Obernai France. You can watch MCBs RCBOs being made. It has an excellent visitors center.
Those pegs are presumably called stakes because when something is secured closed like that it is referred to as having been ‘heat staked’ closed.
At first, i read the title of this video as "ROBO TEARDOWN", and thought "John Ward and robots, how cool!"
Thank you John, very informative as usual.
Nice breakdown John!
excellent job John !! keep the good videos
Love your videos John. Learn lots. Keep it up.
Excellent breakdown cracking video.👍
Love this breakdown.
The amazing thing is that every single component and item of this MCB has been designed by somebody which has involved design, drawings, prototype, man hours, etc. I wonder how many parts came from different countries into one factory to be assembled.
Interestingly, I note that the writing on the PCB is in English, however, isn't Hagar a German company???
Keep 'em coming JW.
Check out www.hagergroup.com/en/company/history/1024-6063.htm
I thought they were
a French company
@@Ivorbiggin I did too but surprised to find its a German company, I googled it
What I would be really interested in, would be a similar/comparable teardown of other much cheaper RCBOs like those from NOARK, XCB or YQWL, where the pricing in relation to Hager is like 1:3 - to see what could possibly explain this difference and explain if the price of Hager is justified and/or those other vendors compromise reliability/function.
intrigued to see a double pole one
You can see the arc if you look up at the bar terminal while pressing the button
So this requires that there is a working neutral cable, or how is the electronics powered? In Finland electronic RCDs are banned.That is they need to be voltage independent.
So glad I found this channel John, this is really going to help me study. I left a question in a vid form about 5 years ago, should I ask it here?
No, new comments on old videos show up anyway.
However replies to old comments don't, they only appear with the original video. RUclips comments are generally not suitable for multiple replies, other systems such as Twitter, Facebook, etc. are better for that. Links to those on the channel page here: ruclips.net/user/jjwardabout
Dear JW again a nice teardown. If you have another of those small RCBs would you test them how they can be de-sensified by applying a non pulsed DC current through e. g. the blue wire and check at which AC current they will break then... Maybe draw a curve of break AC or pulsed DC leak current versus different DC currents applied. I think this an interesting topic. Kind regards The Solderman
+John Ward
+The Solderman
I wondered that too -- I'd like to see:-
a) Standby current on the RCBO
b) AC-rcd-test tripping test on the rcbo with an injected constant DC current present.
c) AC-rcd-test tripping-test on the rcbo with John's-heater in series with diode present.
[and, of course, control test first].
How do these compact versions get away with not using it’s own earth connection (or why do the other type need them)?
i understand theres an issue with these devices running hot, esp at higher currents. could this be an issue?
Does JW know he has such dry humour ! 😂 SBR. The more expensive and best quality PVA as waterproof. Accident in the van ? Surely no one mistook the CU for a thing that needed tiling over
What inductance do these things present if they are being used to protect the DNO main fuse from an SPD fault where the SPD fails permanently 'short circuit'? And would a simple MCB present a similar inductance? I'm thinking about the 50cm cable length advice.
It's minimal - although the MCB / RCBO has a coil of wire in the L path, it's only a few turns for higher ratings like 32A and above.
No difference between and MCB and RCBO, the MCB part is identical for both.
SPDs fail open, they have a device inside which disconnects when it overheats, that's also what operates the 'fault' indicator on the front.
@@jwflame Thanks John
Probably the only instance where unleaded solder is the better choice :D
Hello JW, hope you and your's are well. ;o)
@16:42 I think that reads 146EK, can't find a data sheet for it though. They do insist on putting these miniscule anonymous things in there.
Interesting teardown. The various parts all look uncomfortably squished into the space available.
Can you confirm if this is voltage independent or voltage dependent RCBO…also why is there so much electronics? Is it more because same RCBO can be used for AC as well as DC?
Voltage dependent. The electronics are mostly an amplifier so a much smaller sense coil can be used and the whole thing can be made into the compact size. Some of it will be for the pulsed DC detection.
Ymmm teardown :)
Omg that amount of times you identify something and just say "right there" is unbelievable great vocabulary
Why are they so bloody expensive though.
I now realise why these things are so expensive
John, mumbling is becoming our signature in videos and makes it hard to follow anything.
Dont now anything about these....
Why you are so serious, smile a litle
He *is* smiling. He looks very scary when he's serious.
Do you know BONEGA? RCBO and circuit breaker in one module. But unlike all the others (except the news from NOARK) it has a continuous N conductor. You simply connect the L and N busbar on one side and the circuit on the other. So it has a disconnection of N (1 + N)
Manufactures a version with Electronic or magnetic RCBO.
Look what it looks like inside.
elektrika.cz/obr/12_bonega_jistic_02v.jpg
elektrika.cz/obr/12_bonega_jistic_03v.jpg