Which dungeon from Twilight Princess is your favorite? (points if you can also guess mine!) Huge thanks to Mr. William for assisting me with this video, don't forget to grab the other half of the lore on his channel!
My favorite from Twilight princess is either the Oocoo dungeon or Arbiter's grounds, Hyrule Castle would be, but it doesn't feel like it has as much to it as the other two
While I do believe that the Snowpeak Ruins is the most innovative dungeon in this game, there's something really well crafted about the Arbiter's Grounds. Even if they recycle the Poe gimmick, it still feels so different. And the overbearing aura of dread is unmatched.
Dude I just did a video on the Arbiters grounds on my channel where I rank dungeons based on scores I give them on a tier list, no joke it absolutely blew me away. It's sad I did this right as they made this video
Twilight Princess has a lot of cool, lore-rich dungeons, but my favorite is just the cozy mansion of Snowpeak Ruins! Forget Zelda x Link, Yeto and Yeta’s adorkable romance is the marriage we should all pray for! They’re literally my mom and dad as yetis. Just seeing Link get SHOVED for whatever ingredients he had always made me laugh, especially after the dread of Arbiter Grounds, so it was a welcome change of atmosphere. Plus the end where Yeto and Yeta’s just hug and all the hearts start flying out…I really felt happy. Happy that there were in fact, happy endings in Twilight Princess. :]
I figured that the arbiters grounds were a gerudo temple that the hylians built over as a means of desecrating the sacred site of their enemies. This happened a lot in ancient times, as an easy way to demoralize your enemy is to take over something they deemed sacred. A few examples: The Pantheon in Rome (turned from pagan temple to catholic basilica) Hagia Sophia in Istanbul (changed from christian church to Muslim mosque) and the Acropolis in Athens which was not only occupied by invaders but repurposed as an ammunitions storage which led to the Parthenon being blown up.
That's what I always thought happened to the Spirit Temple/Gerudo Fortress of OoT. Them being destroyed or turned into the Arbiter's Grounds makes more sense when you factor in time and the events after OoT. I think the same argument can be said about BotW's current Hyrule castle being on top of an ancient underground Sheikah observatory and not on the Great Plateau with the Temple of Time.
The Templo Mayor in Tenochtitlan was torn down, and it's bricks used to build a Catholic cathedral in Mexico City has to be one of the most explicit examples of what you're describing
Another connection in regard to the Gerudo Goddess of Sand is the fact that grains of sand are used to measure the passing of time, and Hylia is the Goddess of Time. I think over the ages, she just changed to fit the dessert-dwelling peoples' views on life in the arid, unforgiving Gerudo region.
If you rotate and flip the Twilight princess map and then put OoT's castle town over the temple of time area, the map lines up fairly well. The forest takes over Zora's Domain making them move far away. The Deku Tree/Kokiri likely being the ones to overgrow the original Temple of Time.
Zeltik gave a pretty thorough examination on Yeto’s mansion and it’s possible origins, that was pretty awesome. I think I probably like the Temple of Time dungeon the best for the sake of being able to smash things with the giant statues, especially Armogohma.
Something I noticed a long time ago that I’ve never heard anyone talk about before is that if you put “a link to the past” and “twilight princess “ in a side by side comparison you will be surprised at how many things are actually exactly the same even down to the darknuts and golden pyramid / dark world that transforms you into an animal. I’d love to see a video where someone actually dives into all the similarities
Ocarina of Time reimagined a lot of elements from Zelda 2, so it's no big surprise that its spiritual successor would reimagine elements of A Link to the Past.
It would be interesting if the Forest Monkeys are the form that the Kokiri/Korok are taking, in the Age of Twilight (which was discussed in another video), and would explain the absence of the Kokiri/Korok, along with how the Monkeys seem to be familiar with the Faron Woods. Would also help to further explain the presence of the Skull Kid, in the Sacred Grove, which also serves as Twilight Princess's version of the Lost Woods.
Twilight Princess has some of the best dungeons in the series in my opinion. The only dungeon which I felt was a bit of a chore was the sky temple. Great video btw, these lore heavy vids are my fave!
I may be mistaken but I think I read that the murals were made from scratch for the HD remaster because in the original game they didn't actually look like anything. They said that they just made up images based on the Zelda races, so they aren't technically "canon" as they weren't made by the original devs or intended to signify anything, more placeholders to fit in to previously made textures that needed to be updated for the remaster
@@thehypercannon. I will admit it's very tempting to use those textures as lore and that the people who made the remaster may not have realized how in depth zelda fans look into things, but there are a lot of design choices in the series that were arbitrary that get interpreted as something deeper. It's all in good fun obviously, but it's still funny when these things happen
City in the Sky was always my most favorite in TP, and kinda my favorite in the whole series. everything from the atmosphere (no pun intended) to the creepy music to the fun of the double clawshots, the dungeon's lore, the phenomenal boss fight, and the process to get there have always been monumental for me
Something you should keep in mind regarding the various races: Hyrule is just one kingdom, not an entire planet, and it isn't even that big of a kingdom. There should be nothing stopping members of any race from moving to or from Hyrule. Any races that aren't shown in specific timelines could simply be in other lands, away from all the dangers in Hyrule.
I watched a video bout how windwaker link is that Armin lookin kid in Twilight Princess and a lot of this in this video lends more credence that the playable events in Windwaker and Twilight Princess take place at the same time just in two separate timelines. Great Video as always Bandit!
Gorons were already on the surface in Skyward Sword and I think that the Zora evolved from the octopod creatures in Faron. As for the rest... I can see the prototribe thing being the case, though I'm pretty sure the Gerudo and Ooca got the short end of the stick.
I remain 1000% convinced that the Oocas appearance is a pun on the Cocoos, these seemingly invincible chickens that summon punishment down from the sky.
The "small link" in the wall engravings are kokiri, the shield and the sword are called kokiri's shield and kokiri's sword, and Link wears green cause those are the kokiri colors, all other representations of link have been green since the to "honour the hero of time" but that was "retconned" in later games
@@fireembliam9090 Yeah? Married people can play games sometimes too! My husband prefers the Star Wars games over Zelda, but the kids like watching both. Haha.
Counterpoint: With the Gerudo seeming to be wiped out by the time of Twilight Princess (perhaps as punishment for Ganondorf's betrayal?), Arbiter's Grounds seems like an ancient Gerudo structure repurposed into a prison by the Hylians. As we saw with the Shadow Temple in OoT, the Hylian Royal Family do seem to get a kick out of turning ancient religious sites into prisons.
I always considered the two giant hollowed trees to be the Deku tree and Deku sprout. As the boss room in the back one in Twilight is very similar to the one you go into in Ocarina
Didn't a developer for the HD version not say that the mural was just something he assembled randomly without any story behind it? Heard that somewhere, think it was in a Zeltik video. 🤔
I'm enjoying and loving this video as usual but I wanna point out something: I'm 99% certain it's pretty much impossible for all humanoid races to have been one and the same back in the day, since as far as I can remember the zora (and therefore the rito) come from the parella tribe from Skyward Sword, and the goron were already present in that game. Given the fact that, iirc, the war between Hylia and Demise happened when the land of Hyrule was just recently created, I doubt both races had the chance to change so drastically. (This isn't meant to be a hate comment or an absolute truth, just my thoughts on this specifict part of the video, love your content
As far as I can tell from the video, they were just implying the Gerudo and the Hylians used to be one. Edit: I might be reading your comment wrong Edit2: just reached that part of the video where he implies all humanoids. Ignore my comment. Lol
I always thought JabuJabu was a wind fish, that he only stayed in Zora's domain because Ruto and her people made a place for him and fed/worshiped him. And part of what Ganondorf did by freezing their waters was make the shrine uninhabitable for him, not to kill him, but to force him to leave. I really would have liked to see him fly off, imagine having a massive shadow pass over you as you close in on Zora's Domain in the adult timeline, it could have been a cool moment. Unfortunately I don't think the time-frame that Gannondorf was working in would have made that event fit, as Zora's Domain was supposed to be frozen for a while before Adult Link arrives.
I always thought the Ukah WERE the loftwings. In Skyward sword, they just seem like big birds, but we know they were created by the goddess herself to protect the Hylians up in the sky. And we know that at the end of skyward sword the Loftwings decided to stay living in the sky. So, perhaps without the need to cart a bunch of Hylians around on their backs all day, they evolved to become smaller and started developing human like qualities as the needs of the Hylians changed. Their faces, while creepy, sort of resemble the face you'd see on a statue, particularly the goddess statue. The dungeon itself could easily be the ruins of Skyloft. Changed a bit, sure, but we can probably assume that the Hylians went back and forth between Skyloft and the surface for awhile. It's not like they had anything down there and even with the monsters gone it would still be pretty dangerous. And as the loftwings got smaller, they would have needed an alternative way of getting around Skyloft, hence the longshot. Until they decided to abandon Skyloft for good.
Snakes also symbolize wisdom in many mythologies so the Sand Goddess could actually be Nayru. Hylia may also be a goddess of wisdom herself since Zelda is her reincarnation and possess the triforce of wisdom.
My favorite thing to think about on my first playthrough is why each of the items were in their respective dungeons because there was a reason. Clawshot in the water temple because it fell from the sky. Spinner as key made by the warden. That kind of stuff. As for what I think: Water Temple was probably deeper and more complex than what we saw in OOT. I think there’s even reason to believe that the Zoras may have built over the grounds where the fused shadow was being kept, and what we entered was an alternate entrance to the same temple that was discovered later. To me at least, the TP water temple felt like it was designed closer to being a city than a temple. It was made to have people, large structures, and a central hub you’d use to get to places where you wanted to get but it got abandoned due to the effects of the fused shadow.
Assuming the panels in the city in the sky segment ate a passage of evolution, would the recurring link just he the reincarnated hero? Like as time has gone on, as these new cultures and races began to flourish, the hero has been constantly reappearing to help in whatever time of need has arose.
My favorite dungeons come from this game. I love how each of them actually feels like what it purports to be; the forest temple feels like a massive tree, snow peak feels like an abandoned chateau, it all works beautifully.
Ugh I just love the dungeons of Twilight Princess! I've sort of had my own theory on the TP Forest Temple. In the map of Hyrule in Ocarina of Time, the area directly south of Hyrule Field between Lake Hylia and Kokiri Forest is just empty - unmapped. In Twilight Princess Faron Woods and Ordon Village are directly south of center Hyrule. I think one could theorize that this "empty" spot is actually where Faron Woods is. I feel as if Faron is actually a much more ancient place. Perhaps the Kokiri once lived there but then fled to what became known as Kokiri Forest. Perhaps Faron used to be home to many many Deku Trees, all of which died out, survived only by the Great Deku Tree in Kokiri Forest. It would explain all of the Kokiri symbolism in Faron's Forest Temple and why it's so barren. So even though TP takes place after OoT, the location of Faron woods we explore is actually older than Kokiri Village/The Great Deku Tree in OoT. It could actually all be one connected forest, that area was just unmapped/forgotten in the time of OoT.
Thank you so much for starting with twillight princess, it was my first zelda game, and it's my favorite. Also thank you for always making your videos so enjoyable, Sorry for bad English btw
love this vid. TP was one of my favorite zelda games and still is to this day. minish cap will always be #1, but if there was a second place it would be TP.
Okay before I let you go, I've played it recently so let me weigh in: The forest temple is awesome. The way the boomerang feeds back into everything, and saving the monkeys is intuitive and rewarding in a way few dungeons are. I literally cry when the big monkey comes back to help me kill the boss. Goron mines is a great second dungeon. It has combat challenges that make you sweat, and puzzles that are less about being clever and more about courage. Failure is often met with a small but slow backtrack to really encourage you to play hard. The bow makes you strong enough for good fights, and good fights you get. The water temple is really heady. It forces you to sit back and think about what you want to do and what you can do. These things make the hookshot feel super rewarding (along with stealing the armor from those pesky enemies). The boss fight here is really epic, too. Arbiter's grounds is the dungeon where they make heavy use of your ability to change to wolf at will, and having to play around with the sand and the enemies and tracking the poes is definitely cool. The spinner puzzles are cool too, although it's one of the more underwhelming items. Snowpeak is probably my favorite. What can I say that hasn't been said - it's brutal, it's clever, it's funny, it's touching, and I love me some soup. The ball and chain is just the peak of the "feeling a little out of my league here but I think I can manage" experience, as well as the ice, the cannons, the enemies... Great dungeon. The temple of time is a funny one. It's very deliberately obnoxious on the way up, bordering on cruel, but it's all in service of the euphoric trip down, smashing everything. The way through is linear and neat and intuitive and rewarding, like Skyward Sword in a way, yet it somehow feels too long and too short at once. Outside of this temple, the dominion rod has no combat applications, and sends you off to fetch quest all those owls, so the thing sort of has tedium woven all throughout. It's so satisfying to smash this whole dungeon though... I guess that's why it's in ruins. City in the Sky gets my silver medal. It's some kind of weird horror puzzle chicken dungeon that feels like an expression of things you understand in a way you do not. You feel an aesthetic isolation like Snowpeak but with no funny yeti plot. The second hookshot is mind-blowing, makes your most powerful item even more powerful and lets you feel what is true: you can really go anywhere now. The twilight segment is awesome. Trying to walk the light orbs back is some of the best wallmaster stuff in any Zelda game I know of. The climb up is a blast, and the Zant fight is really cool. It reminds me a lot of hollow bastion. Nothing too ambitious, but very well done and very satisfying to execute. Hyrule Castle is of course huge and epic. Several punchy and memorable fights, a courtyard so big you can explore it, a hidden graveyard, some cool segments using all the items. It's lovely, but I don't know, a little hollow? Darknuts are awesome but there's something about this place that feels big and empty. Shoutouts lantern cave 2 and cave of ordeals, almost dungeons in their own right, and excellent as well.
I really like the snake goddess being a Garudo interpretation of hylia. I can very easily see groose carving statues of zelda and telling his grandkids about her being the goddess. Or maybe even elder impa and the snake was actually her hair at one point.
This is an amazing video, I did want to make a slight point out that the Roman Colosseum was hardly ever used for slaughter. There were not killed unless there was a very good reason.
Wasn’t the tapestry that displayed the rito and oocca confirmed to be non canon by one of the devs? Or was that a different carving from the OOT/MM HD versions? I really don’t recall.
Yes indeed, it was a creation by one of the devs who did the HD version of Twilight Princess. :) "Crosby explained that the original texture was based on an image of some Roman ruins. When Twilight Princess first released, this texture was low-res enough that it didn’t draw much attention, but it had to be replaced for the HD remake. Nintendo tapped Crosby for the job." He took inspiration from Zelda books and tried to make something he would like to see as a story. So Nintendo wasn't involved in this mural
Twilight Princess was my first experience with Zelda so it holds a special place in my heart. It would mean the world to me if it got ported to the Switch.
I literally just made a super in depth video on the Arbiters grounds, you should check it out! It's just sad that I posted it on the exact same day this came out 😅
Yep, kinda surprised this got into the video, the person who made the texture even said "I just added it in as set dressing because the original texture was low resolution and couldn't be upscaled" (paraphrasing)
The curse on the Deku Tree Sprout wasn't lifted in the Child Timeline as that was only remedied by completing OoT's Forest Temple. The entire first half of Twilight Princess is repeating plot beats from OoT's AT section, but as their CT counterpart.
Link does not complete the forest tepel in OoT when sent back at the end. That's why the new Deku tree doesn't grow. The whole Kokiri village overgrown and grew into the new forest temple together in TP.
Is it possible that the Arbiter's Grounds isn't a coliseum, but a panopticon? It even has a massive tower in the middle, from where you could look upon everyone else standing inside the prison.
I once saw a theory on how the Arbiter's Ground was built to punish criminals especially Gerudo. The theory says: after the Adult timeline and the defeat of Ganon, the Hyrulians took revenge on the Gerudo for bringing death and misery upon the land, cleansing them in the process. Thus no Gerudo are found in Twilight Princess.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the city in the sky just be ruins of old skyloft? It’s basic I know, but It’s not like the hyrules are ever consistent, so with the roughly 5 year gap between TP and SS release, they might’ve taken inspiration for the whole of SS, to add some more context to that dungeon after release, and with how the skyloftians were already close to goddess, it maybe makes sense that those that stayed behind evolved into the Ooca when the loft wings began to die out as they needed some mode of transportation. I feel there was enough time passed between games in the timeline to where skyloft could’ve been built up with help from hylians on the ground, and leaving behind the ruins in City in the sky after it had been built up in the past after the events of SS. Just my opinion since it’s an interesting dungeon, and might just be more straightforward?
It’s good to see the ol’ 2016 “every even number episode will be on X channel. Every odd episode will be on Y channel” -cross promotion for Let’s Play videos between creators who are friends. This is a nice way to reinvent that, and it feels wholesome and nice.
I imagine that gerudo was a later solo project by din. Kinda how modern zora are most likely the result of divine meddling. With the sand goddess being an epithet like how the greek pantheon has
I never got past Arbiters grounds as a kid (my sibling finished the game and I watched most of it… this is usually how I experience games… I’m bad at games…) (I want to try it again now that I’m older and less jumpy.. and a little better at games) but I LOVE the Lore of this game, it makes me so flipping happy. Thank you for this Lore video (idk why but I wanted to write “Bandit-Senpai”… the fuck) Edit: Also my theory on the Deku tree is whenthat the great deku tree in OoT died, only his spirit died, the tree itself lived on and continued to grow (in WW the forest is IN dead, giant tree. I think that’s the same tree. If that makes sense) along side the ones it planted, but because they were never… activated.. they never got the sentience/got a soul…
I thought it was already confirmed that gerudo’s were descendants of goose and the second you started sharing the story of city in the sky I was instantly thinking oh yeah that makes sense that some people in skyloft would stay but you didn’t follow it like that.
I believe that the forest temple just chooses not to display its sentience as to not attract too much attention. Also the monkeys are the kokiri. The boss chamber is a single dead tree. I think that's the remains of the original deku tree
I like to think the desert goddess is actually not one of the three golden goddesses or Hylia but just another goddess in the pantheon of Hyrulian lore. We actually don't know much about the religions of Hyrule beyond the creation myth told in OoT and the story of Hylia and Skyloft in SS. There could be just as many gods and goddesses with as many stories as the Greek, Norse, Egyptian, or Hindu pantheons, we just don't hear about them because they're not relevant to the story. I like to think that the desert goddess could maybe be to the Gerduo what Hylia is to the Hylians. Like, maybe after the three golden goddesses left after creating the earth Hylia became the patron deity of the people who would eventually name themselves after her while the desert goddess was the deity of the people who'd eventually become the Gerudo and the four giants became the deities of Termina. It's also possible that since Nayru is the goddess of wisdom and her sage in Oracle of Ages is the sage of time and Hylia is also associated with wisdom and time by Zelda's possession of the Triforce of Wisdom and the Ocarina of Time that Hylia may actually be Nayru's daughter. If that's true, the dessert goddess could then be Din's daughter. The desert goddess and Demise could even be brother and sister, like Ares and Athena, explaining how a male deity like Demise is connected to the all female Gerudo, who we never saw in his origin story presented in SS. Maybe just as Hylia sent her people into the sky to protect them from Demise the desert goddess tried to protect her people by making it so they could only have one male born every 100 years in order to limit and isolate Demise's ability to reincarnate himself.
In regards to the mural discussed during the Sky City explanation, I feel as though it would be more appropriate that the pictures within the mural represent a different era from its neighbours. After all, each Zelda game (with a couple of exceptions) happen in a very distinct timeframe, distinct from the others, but each has a Link - and many Links start their adventure in childhood (thinking OoT and Wind Waker here). Even in games that deviate from this timeline, I still think it's fair to say there are who knows how many versions of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf playing the same song - even in games we haven't actually encountered, or that Nintendo plan to release. After all, the official timeline tries to connect the games - but there's nothing saying that the games happen a set amount of time apart. Alternatively, the young soldiers could be more ceremonial, an acknowledgement of the child hero from ages past. Even if the story had been lost to history, traditions do have a way of sticking around. This would be more official-timeline-friendly, but strikes me as the weaker of the two outcomes.
Very awesomely interesting and intriguing inspiring video, I really loved and enjoyed it. I got a lot sparks of inspiration for the novella collection series Mysteriarch Mythos anthology I’m working on writing. I so very much love getting inspiration from the Zelda series, the lore of the legend of Zelda is so awesome and inspiring as well as interesting.
The deku tree sprout pops up right in front of the old hollowed deku tree so maybe after many years and multiple trees and sprouts they had spread out enough that the kokiri just moved in as it was safer
I would have disagreed with you, but after playing through TP for a dungeon ranking tier list video on the Arbiters grounds on my channel, I might have to agree with you there. You should check it out and tell me what you think! I'm still a new channel and your opinion would mean a ton!
For Arbitors Grounds, maybe the Hylians attacked and claimed rule over all Gerudo (blaming them for Ganondorf maybe) and built a prison inside and thru their temples as extra insult and symbolic oppression
I think the section dealing with the history of the various bird-people is flawed. The Rito as they are in Wind Waker are adult timeline people who evolved to meet the circumstances of the flooded world. TP is from the child timeline and does not take place long enough after OoT to allow for evolution of an entire race from Zora into Rito into Oocca or Hylian into Oocca. This means the Oocca are most likely an ancient race of people that either evolved into the Zora, evolved from the people who never left Skyloft, or are their own thing completely. It is likely the mural is not full of Rito, but rather the intermediate step between Oocca now and their more human bodies. Or cynically the mural was made when the Oocca design was in it's previous iteration and they didn't redo the temple decor when they updated the look. Either way, Oocca cannot be Rito as the Rito will not show up in the child timeline until the merging event that unites the timelines. That or BotW actually happens in the adult timeline and some Zora just never left the ocean and didn't get involved with WW
That and Medli the Rito is stated to be a descendant of Laruto, a Zora. Rito in Wind Waker are all but stated to be evolved versions of the Zora. My personal opinion is the Ooca are the Skyloft residents who never went to the surface. I mean, you can only have so many sky civilizations above Hyrule.
I agree that the oocca are not rito but it is technically possible for races to evolve in different timelines. One example is the monster zora which appear in both the downfall and child timelines despite evolving after the timeline split. So the rito could eventually evolve in the child timeline under the right conditions.
3:04 Having played Twilight Princess way to many times as it’s my favorite Zelda game Ive personally made the connection that Faron Wood could be the Kokiri Forest but since it’s 100 years after Ocarina and we see the ruins of the temple of time in the forest I’ve made the connection that it’s possible that Kokiri Forest started to take over most of what was older Hyrule causing them to relocate
I think 'if' as many have suspected that Groose, from Skyward Sword, was the progenitor of the Gerudo then the statue from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess is likely Goddess Hylia. Or as Groose would have seen her Zelda, the statues may even be how Groose viewed Zelda instead of the Goddess Hylia.
I always love when dungeons take real world mythos into account, so I will always like Death Sword and the Arbiter's Grounds (and the City in the Sky). Though I really love the fact that they went all out and actually gave the dungeons names instead of "forest temple, shadow temple," etc.
Hay btw, the strange mural that appears in twilight HD is non canon. Since TW HD was outsourced… I guess (A third party developed it and not exactly Nintendo, I dunno if that counts as outsourcing) the developers confirmed in twitter that they just designed that mural for fun and has no meaningful back story… I think Zeltik did a whole video about how this mysterious lore was fake
As far as your theory in the Arbiters Grounds, I completely agree that the Gerudos and Hylians became allies and built it together. If we follow both the Timeline in the Hyrule Historia and the revised Timeline in the LoZ Encyclopedia(because why would Nintendo make anything simple?) there are two games following Twilight Princess: Four Swords Adventures and Breath Of The Wild (I'm considering Nintendos' ham-fisted answer as to where BotW falls in the timeline, for reasons). In both of these games, the relationship between the Gerudo and the Hylians have improved, to the point they now associate much more openly with each other, as opposed to the usual hostility they seemed to meet each other with in Ocarina Of Time. In FSA, they're much friendlier, and in BOTW we see Gerudos and Hylians courting each other, without the assistance of imprisonment as we see in Ocarina. And I feel Ganondorf is what caused it. Humor me here. Link and Zelda team together to stop Ganondorf at the end of Ocarina when Link is sent back to his childhood. Ganondorf is taken prisoner, and the Hylian Royal Family now has some questions for the Gerudo, since Ganondorf hailed from them. The Hylians and Gerudo engage in negotiations regarding Ganondorf, with a number of Gerudo adamantly standing their ground that Ganondorf doesn't speak for all of them. We know this to be true with Nabooru, at the very least, and it's hard to imagine she'd be alone in this sentiment. Eventually the Gerudo and Hylians make a truce: Ganondorf is taken prisoner, and the two peoples will repair their relationship so this kind of thing doesn't happen again. Ganondorf isn't just your ordinary prisoner, though. He plotted to take over the entire kingdom, after all. Clearly some regular prison isn't going to cut it. So they begin constructing the Arbiters Grounds. Ganondorf becomes the prisoner of honor, and one of the first to be executed. Personally, I feel Koume and Kotake might have been awaiting execution with him, as they supported his hostile takeover of Hyrule with all their beings, but they'd eventually break out, as we see them in the true ending to the Oracle games later on, but that's for another time. But it may explain why the Arbiters Grounds has signs of both cultures in its' appearance and construction, and it's all because of Ganondorf. My head canon, at least.
A much darker theory I've heard in regards to the Arbiter's Grounds is that it was originally a Gerudo temple or city structure, possibly even an expanded Spirit Temple, but after Ganondorf was revealed to be evil and captured the Hylians turned against the Gerudo as a whole for basically raising the symbol of Evil. The royal family hastily occupied the area and built it into a prison to house the entire Gerudo population, and after the attempted execution of Ganondorf ended with the death of one of the Sages, they turned that lingering anger onto the captive Gerudo. This would explain why there are no Gerudo anywhere in Twilight Princess, as well as why there are so many skeletons and ghosts in the temple. Personally, I think that theory doesn't hold water; it has a lot of holes and a lot of things that don't match up. But it's still a decently neat theory.
Watching this again as i was trying to figure out if there was a connection to the forest temple and the Great Deku Tree. Seems like there are a lot of naysayers on the interwebz. I get it's not proof, but the kokiri symbol on the doors is a pretty good clue. Part of why I love Zelda is that they don't spell everything out for you, and you have to use your imagination or wonder about the mysteries between the games.
The Mural isn't canon, it was made by an outside team when they were tasked with up-scaling the textures, they just added in known visual events. It was not designed by Aonuma and his team, it's completely irrelevant to Zelda lore, just an easter egg.
Snowpeak is epic but my favorite is the city in the sky of which can make you feel like you're going crazy after awhile. Also City in the sky reminds me of ghostscrapers in the similar vibe.
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Which dungeon from Twilight Princess is your favorite? (points if you can also guess mine!) Huge thanks to Mr. William for assisting me with this video, don't forget to grab the other half of the lore on his channel!
Mj
First
Awesome video Bandit
My favorite from Twilight princess is either the Oocoo dungeon or Arbiter's grounds, Hyrule Castle would be, but it doesn't feel like it has as much to it as the other two
My guess is that your favorite is that one where you solve some puzzles and fight those bad guys. You know... That one.
My ACTUAL guess is Snowpeak.
While I do believe that the Snowpeak Ruins is the most innovative dungeon in this game, there's something really well crafted about the Arbiter's Grounds. Even if they recycle the Poe gimmick, it still feels so different. And the overbearing aura of dread is unmatched.
Dude I just did a video on the Arbiters grounds on my channel where I rank dungeons based on scores I give them on a tier list, no joke it absolutely blew me away. It's sad I did this right as they made this video
It’s hardly a recycle. It’s a very different process.
I played twilight princess as a 7 year old and the jumpscare scared me 💀
@@ILOVEKIRKHAMMETT911 i was young asf playin this til 3 am n it would creep me tf out 😭
@@artistonyoutube77 fr fr tho twilight princess and the minish cap are my favorite games 😭
The video turned out great Bandit! Thanks for having me on :)
It's always a great video when these two collab!
Can I have you on me plz
Twilight Princess has a lot of cool, lore-rich dungeons, but my favorite is just the cozy mansion of Snowpeak Ruins! Forget Zelda x Link, Yeto and Yeta’s adorkable romance is the marriage we should all pray for! They’re literally my mom and dad as yetis. Just seeing Link get SHOVED for whatever ingredients he had always made me laugh, especially after the dread of Arbiter Grounds, so it was a welcome change of atmosphere. Plus the end where Yeto and Yeta’s just hug and all the hearts start flying out…I really felt happy. Happy that there were in fact, happy endings in Twilight Princess. :]
Their love is so strong, it spawns hearts even in Hero Mode, being the only instance you can find hearts!
best dungeon in a zelda game
I figured that the arbiters grounds were a gerudo temple that the hylians built over as a means of desecrating the sacred site of their enemies. This happened a lot in ancient times, as an easy way to demoralize your enemy is to take over something they deemed sacred. A few examples: The Pantheon in Rome (turned from pagan temple to catholic basilica) Hagia Sophia in Istanbul (changed from christian church to Muslim mosque) and the Acropolis in Athens which was not only occupied by invaders but repurposed as an ammunitions storage which led to the Parthenon being blown up.
That's what I always thought happened to the Spirit Temple/Gerudo Fortress of OoT. Them being destroyed or turned into the Arbiter's Grounds makes more sense when you factor in time and the events after OoT. I think the same argument can be said about BotW's current Hyrule castle being on top of an ancient underground Sheikah observatory and not on the Great Plateau with the Temple of Time.
The Templo Mayor in Tenochtitlan was torn down, and it's bricks used to build a Catholic cathedral in Mexico City has to be one of the most explicit examples of what you're describing
Yeah this is more or less the theory I recently saw and It's much more likely in my mind than the one in this video.
Another connection in regard to the Gerudo Goddess of Sand is the fact that grains of sand are used to measure the passing of time, and Hylia is the Goddess of Time. I think over the ages, she just changed to fit the dessert-dwelling peoples' views on life in the arid, unforgiving Gerudo region.
And, could also be similar to how some different religions worship the same god, but with their own interpretations of said god.
@@ShadowSora8491 yeah, sorry, I thought that's what I said
@@jarrodnisly3333 All good.
maybe their interpretation is more original and the royal family changed her image...just like white jesus
If you rotate and flip the Twilight princess map and then put OoT's castle town over the temple of time area, the map lines up fairly well. The forest takes over Zora's Domain making them move far away. The Deku Tree/Kokiri likely being the ones to overgrow the original Temple of Time.
Depends. For the Wii version, yes. For the GameCube and Wii U versions, you don't have to flip the map.
Zeltik gave a pretty thorough examination on Yeto’s mansion and it’s possible origins, that was pretty awesome.
I think I probably like the Temple of Time dungeon the best for the sake of being able to smash things with the giant statues, especially Armogohma.
Wasn't expecting an in-depth lecture on Hyrule's ancient history, but it was extremely informing and enjoyable! Well done.
Something I noticed a long time ago that I’ve never heard anyone talk about before is that if you put “a link to the past” and “twilight princess “ in a side by side comparison you will be surprised at how many things are actually exactly the same even down to the darknuts and golden pyramid / dark world that transforms you into an animal. I’d love to see a video where someone actually dives into all the similarities
Ocarina of Time reimagined a lot of elements from Zelda 2, so it's no big surprise that its spiritual successor would reimagine elements of A Link to the Past.
It would be interesting if the Forest Monkeys are the form that the Kokiri/Korok are taking, in the Age of Twilight (which was discussed in another video), and would explain the absence of the Kokiri/Korok, along with how the Monkeys seem to be familiar with the Faron Woods. Would also help to further explain the presence of the Skull Kid, in the Sacred Grove, which also serves as Twilight Princess's version of the Lost Woods.
Twilight Princess has some of the best dungeons in the series in my opinion. The only dungeon which I felt was a bit of a chore was the sky temple. Great video btw, these lore heavy vids are my fave!
I may be mistaken but I think I read that the murals were made from scratch for the HD remaster because in the original game they didn't actually look like anything. They said that they just made up images based on the Zelda races, so they aren't technically "canon" as they weren't made by the original devs or intended to signify anything, more placeholders to fit in to previously made textures that needed to be updated for the remaster
This! There's a video or five out there from Zeldatubers saying the same thing
@@thehypercannon. I will admit it's very tempting to use those textures as lore and that the people who made the remaster may not have realized how in depth zelda fans look into things, but there are a lot of design choices in the series that were arbitrary that get interpreted as something deeper. It's all in good fun obviously, but it's still funny when these things happen
City in the Sky was always my most favorite in TP, and kinda my favorite in the whole series. everything from the atmosphere (no pun intended) to the creepy music to the fun of the double clawshots, the dungeon's lore, the phenomenal boss fight, and the process to get there have always been monumental for me
That’s crazy because it’s definitely at the bottom of my list. I really didn’t enjoy it. I also didn’t enjoy really the temple of time either
Something you should keep in mind regarding the various races: Hyrule is just one kingdom, not an entire planet, and it isn't even that big of a kingdom. There should be nothing stopping members of any race from moving to or from Hyrule. Any races that aren't shown in specific timelines could simply be in other lands, away from all the dangers in Hyrule.
I watched a video bout how windwaker link is that Armin lookin kid in Twilight Princess and a lot of this in this video lends more credence that the playable events in Windwaker and Twilight Princess take place at the same time just in two separate timelines. Great Video as always Bandit!
Do you have a link to the video? Sounds interesting
And I think his name was colin
@@spicysquire3521 Yeah i had to look it up but here it is ruclips.net/video/dx9ZcHUePkE/видео.html
Gorons were already on the surface in Skyward Sword and I think that the Zora evolved from the octopod creatures in Faron. As for the rest... I can see the prototribe thing being the case, though I'm pretty sure the Gerudo and Ooca got the short end of the stick.
I remain 1000% convinced that the Oocas appearance is a pun on the Cocoos, these seemingly invincible chickens that summon punishment down from the sky.
The "small link" in the wall engravings are kokiri, the shield and the sword are called kokiri's shield and kokiri's sword, and Link wears green cause those are the kokiri colors, all other representations of link have been green since the to "honour the hero of time" but that was "retconned" in later games
You have such good Zelda content that you're one of my kids' favorite creators. My 7-year-old calls you Mr. Bandit. Lol
Well thank you for being here! Please tell your little one that Mr. Bandit says hi :)
@@BanditGames He was extremely happy to see your reply! Thanks and keep up the fun work.
Your married and your kid is a gamer like you.
@@fireembliam9090 Yeah? Married people can play games sometimes too! My husband prefers the Star Wars games over Zelda, but the kids like watching both. Haha.
Counterpoint: With the Gerudo seeming to be wiped out by the time of Twilight Princess (perhaps as punishment for Ganondorf's betrayal?), Arbiter's Grounds seems like an ancient Gerudo structure repurposed into a prison by the Hylians. As we saw with the Shadow Temple in OoT, the Hylian Royal Family do seem to get a kick out of turning ancient religious sites into prisons.
I always considered the two giant hollowed trees to be the Deku tree and Deku sprout. As the boss room in the back one in Twilight is very similar to the one you go into in Ocarina
Didn't a developer for the HD version not say that the mural was just something he assembled randomly without any story behind it? Heard that somewhere, think it was in a Zeltik video. 🤔
I'm enjoying and loving this video as usual but I wanna point out something: I'm 99% certain it's pretty much impossible for all humanoid races to have been one and the same back in the day, since as far as I can remember the zora (and therefore the rito) come from the parella tribe from Skyward Sword, and the goron were already present in that game. Given the fact that, iirc, the war between Hylia and Demise happened when the land of Hyrule was just recently created, I doubt both races had the chance to change so drastically. (This isn't meant to be a hate comment or an absolute truth, just my thoughts on this specifict part of the video, love your content
As far as I can tell from the video, they were just implying the Gerudo and the Hylians used to be one.
Edit: I might be reading your comment wrong
Edit2: just reached that part of the video where he implies all humanoids. Ignore my comment. Lol
Tbh that could explain the dragon in OOT water temple.
Ive never played a Zelda game but I actually really enjoy your analysis videos 😊
My favorite dungeons are Hyrule castle (botw) the forest temple (oot) ganons Tower ( a link to the past) the shadow temple (oot) and level 9
I always thought JabuJabu was a wind fish, that he only stayed in Zora's domain because Ruto and her people made a place for him and fed/worshiped him. And part of what Ganondorf did by freezing their waters was make the shrine uninhabitable for him, not to kill him, but to force him to leave. I really would have liked to see him fly off, imagine having a massive shadow pass over you as you close in on Zora's Domain in the adult timeline, it could have been a cool moment. Unfortunately I don't think the time-frame that Gannondorf was working in would have made that event fit, as Zora's Domain was supposed to be frozen for a while before Adult Link arrives.
I always thought the Ukah WERE the loftwings. In Skyward sword, they just seem like big birds, but we know they were created by the goddess herself to protect the Hylians up in the sky. And we know that at the end of skyward sword the Loftwings decided to stay living in the sky. So, perhaps without the need to cart a bunch of Hylians around on their backs all day, they evolved to become smaller and started developing human like qualities as the needs of the Hylians changed. Their faces, while creepy, sort of resemble the face you'd see on a statue, particularly the goddess statue.
The dungeon itself could easily be the ruins of Skyloft. Changed a bit, sure, but we can probably assume that the Hylians went back and forth between Skyloft and the surface for awhile. It's not like they had anything down there and even with the monsters gone it would still be pretty dangerous. And as the loftwings got smaller, they would have needed an alternative way of getting around Skyloft, hence the longshot. Until they decided to abandon Skyloft for good.
You and NintendoBlackCrisis both dropped a Twilight Princess Lore Video the same day !
Snakes also symbolize wisdom in many mythologies so the Sand Goddess could actually be Nayru. Hylia may also be a goddess of wisdom herself since Zelda is her reincarnation and possess the triforce of wisdom.
Didn’t think about it before but there’s a similarity between the arbitrators ground and tower of gods in WW which also has an arbitrator
i just LOVE your videos! they are so engaging and every time i watch one i feel the need to start playing some zelda!
My favorite thing to think about on my first playthrough is why each of the items were in their respective dungeons because there was a reason.
Clawshot in the water temple because it fell from the sky.
Spinner as key made by the warden.
That kind of stuff.
As for what I think: Water Temple was probably deeper and more complex than what we saw in OOT. I think there’s even reason to believe that the Zoras may have built over the grounds where the fused shadow was being kept, and what we entered was an alternate entrance to the same temple that was discovered later.
To me at least, the TP water temple felt like it was designed closer to being a city than a temple. It was made to have people, large structures, and a central hub you’d use to get to places where you wanted to get but it got abandoned due to the effects of the fused shadow.
Assuming the panels in the city in the sky segment ate a passage of evolution, would the recurring link just he the reincarnated hero? Like as time has gone on, as these new cultures and races began to flourish, the hero has been constantly reappearing to help in whatever time of need has arose.
Great collaboration with NBC!
You guys dungeon explanations are great, there is a lot I didn’t every think about.
My favorite dungeons come from this game. I love how each of them actually feels like what it purports to be; the forest temple feels like a massive tree, snow peak feels like an abandoned chateau, it all works beautifully.
Ugh I just love the dungeons of Twilight Princess! I've sort of had my own theory on the TP Forest Temple. In the map of Hyrule in Ocarina of Time, the area directly south of Hyrule Field between Lake Hylia and Kokiri Forest is just empty - unmapped. In Twilight Princess Faron Woods and Ordon Village are directly south of center Hyrule. I think one could theorize that this "empty" spot is actually where Faron Woods is. I feel as if Faron is actually a much more ancient place. Perhaps the Kokiri once lived there but then fled to what became known as Kokiri Forest. Perhaps Faron used to be home to many many Deku Trees, all of which died out, survived only by the Great Deku Tree in Kokiri Forest. It would explain all of the Kokiri symbolism in Faron's Forest Temple and why it's so barren. So even though TP takes place after OoT, the location of Faron woods we explore is actually older than Kokiri Village/The Great Deku Tree in OoT. It could actually all be one connected forest, that area was just unmapped/forgotten in the time of OoT.
18:47 That headdress... that looks strangely similar to Zant's helmet!
Pointy top, round "eyes".
Thank you so much for starting with twillight princess, it was my first zelda game, and it's my favorite. Also thank you for always making your videos so enjoyable,
Sorry for bad English btw
love this vid. TP was one of my favorite zelda games and still is to this day. minish cap will always be #1, but if there was a second place it would be TP.
Using a coliseum as a prison isn't so farfetched when you remember a good chunk of gladiators were either POWs or slaves.
I didn't saw the video yet but I'm so happy to have so many Zelda for Halloween, thank you guys
Twilight Princess is hands down my favorite since the GameCube version.
Hyrule Castle was my favorite. Followed by Twilight Palace
YOOOOO I was hyped for this series when you said it was gonna be soon but I didn't think it would be THIS soon! WOOOOOO
Fine, I’ll do it myself
A Zelda game without dungeons is like spaghetti without the noodles. At that point, you’re just eating a meat pudding.
One of the reasons I don't consider botw a zelda game.
Okay before I let you go, I've played it recently so let me weigh in:
The forest temple is awesome. The way the boomerang feeds back into everything, and saving the monkeys is intuitive and rewarding in a way few dungeons are. I literally cry when the big monkey comes back to help me kill the boss.
Goron mines is a great second dungeon. It has combat challenges that make you sweat, and puzzles that are less about being clever and more about courage. Failure is often met with a small but slow backtrack to really encourage you to play hard. The bow makes you strong enough for good fights, and good fights you get.
The water temple is really heady. It forces you to sit back and think about what you want to do and what you can do. These things make the hookshot feel super rewarding (along with stealing the armor from those pesky enemies). The boss fight here is really epic, too.
Arbiter's grounds is the dungeon where they make heavy use of your ability to change to wolf at will, and having to play around with the sand and the enemies and tracking the poes is definitely cool. The spinner puzzles are cool too, although it's one of the more underwhelming items.
Snowpeak is probably my favorite. What can I say that hasn't been said - it's brutal, it's clever, it's funny, it's touching, and I love me some soup. The ball and chain is just the peak of the "feeling a little out of my league here but I think I can manage" experience, as well as the ice, the cannons, the enemies... Great dungeon.
The temple of time is a funny one. It's very deliberately obnoxious on the way up, bordering on cruel, but it's all in service of the euphoric trip down, smashing everything. The way through is linear and neat and intuitive and rewarding, like Skyward Sword in a way, yet it somehow feels too long and too short at once. Outside of this temple, the dominion rod has no combat applications, and sends you off to fetch quest all those owls, so the thing sort of has tedium woven all throughout. It's so satisfying to smash this whole dungeon though... I guess that's why it's in ruins.
City in the Sky gets my silver medal. It's some kind of weird horror puzzle chicken dungeon that feels like an expression of things you understand in a way you do not. You feel an aesthetic isolation like Snowpeak but with no funny yeti plot. The second hookshot is mind-blowing, makes your most powerful item even more powerful and lets you feel what is true: you can really go anywhere now.
The twilight segment is awesome. Trying to walk the light orbs back is some of the best wallmaster stuff in any Zelda game I know of. The climb up is a blast, and the Zant fight is really cool. It reminds me a lot of hollow bastion. Nothing too ambitious, but very well done and very satisfying to execute.
Hyrule Castle is of course huge and epic. Several punchy and memorable fights, a courtyard so big you can explore it, a hidden graveyard, some cool segments using all the items. It's lovely, but I don't know, a little hollow? Darknuts are awesome but there's something about this place that feels big and empty.
Shoutouts lantern cave 2 and cave of ordeals, almost dungeons in their own right, and excellent as well.
Shit that's not what this video is at all. Oh well lol
I absolutely love watching your videos, and I love collaboration videos, keep up the great work!
Great job! I've only ever beaten it once, and I really need to replay it. Hopefully it gets a Switch release soon!
I really like the snake goddess being a Garudo interpretation of hylia. I can very easily see groose carving statues of zelda and telling his grandkids about her being the goddess. Or maybe even elder impa and the snake was actually her hair at one point.
Ah yes it is 2:51 am what a perfect time to learn all about the dungeons of twilight princess instead of going to sleep
This is an amazing video, I did want to make a slight point out that the Roman Colosseum was hardly ever used for slaughter. There were not killed unless there was a very good reason.
When you were saying how you were interested in making a "Temple/Dungeon LORE" video, I got hyped.
Now I am really hyped! MY FAVORITE ZELDA GAME!
Cool video bro!
Nice vid! I love the tp videos, it’s the best Zelda game in my opinion.
Bruh that’s gotta be a scam
Wasn’t the tapestry that displayed the rito and oocca confirmed to be non canon by one of the devs? Or was that a different carving from the OOT/MM HD versions? I really don’t recall.
Yes indeed, it was a creation by one of the devs who did the HD version of Twilight Princess. :)
"Crosby explained that the original texture was based on an image of some Roman ruins. When Twilight Princess first released, this texture was low-res enough that it didn’t draw much attention, but it had to be replaced for the HD remake. Nintendo tapped Crosby for the job."
He took inspiration from Zelda books and tried to make something he would like to see as a story. So Nintendo wasn't involved in this mural
Twilight Princess was my first experience with Zelda so it holds a special place in my heart. It would mean the world to me if it got ported to the Switch.
My favorite dungeons in twilight princess are Arbiters Grounds and Snowpeak Ruins
I literally just made a super in depth video on the Arbiters grounds, you should check it out! It's just sad that I posted it on the exact same day this came out 😅
19:11 haven't we known for years that this mural isn't canon? It was just made by a random texture artist?
Yep, kinda surprised this got into the video, the person who made the texture even said "I just added it in as set dressing because the original texture was low resolution and couldn't be upscaled" (paraphrasing)
The curse on the Deku Tree Sprout wasn't lifted in the Child Timeline as that was only remedied by completing OoT's Forest Temple. The entire first half of Twilight Princess is repeating plot beats from OoT's AT section, but as their CT counterpart.
Patrick Warburton as Groose would be stupendous.
Link does not complete the forest tepel in OoT when sent back at the end. That's why the new Deku tree doesn't grow. The whole Kokiri village overgrown and grew into the new forest temple together in TP.
Is it possible that the Arbiter's Grounds isn't a coliseum, but a panopticon? It even has a massive tower in the middle, from where you could look upon everyone else standing inside the prison.
I once saw a theory on how the Arbiter's Ground was built to punish criminals especially Gerudo. The theory says: after the Adult timeline and the defeat of Ganon, the Hyrulians took revenge on the Gerudo for bringing death and misery upon the land, cleansing them in the process. Thus no Gerudo are found in Twilight Princess.
Ooh, that's dark
Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the city in the sky just be ruins of old skyloft? It’s basic I know, but It’s not like the hyrules are ever consistent, so with the roughly 5 year gap between TP and SS release, they might’ve taken inspiration for the whole of SS, to add some more context to that dungeon after release, and with how the skyloftians were already close to goddess, it maybe makes sense that those that stayed behind evolved into the Ooca when the loft wings began to die out as they needed some mode of transportation. I feel there was enough time passed between games in the timeline to where skyloft could’ve been built up with help from hylians on the ground, and leaving behind the ruins in City in the sky after it had been built up in the past after the events of SS. Just my opinion since it’s an interesting dungeon, and might just be more straightforward?
Why does the gameplay look so good! I don't remember it looking so great
As I‘m rather early today, I just wanted to say that I love your lore videos
I really like this lore series, it shows really cool story!
It’s good to see the ol’ 2016 “every even number episode will be on X channel. Every odd episode will be on Y channel” -cross promotion for Let’s Play videos between creators who are friends. This is a nice way to reinvent that, and it feels wholesome and nice.
you have a soothing 5 star hotel manager voice 😁
Bandit post made my day while I’m sick 👍🏼
I imagine that gerudo was a later solo project by din. Kinda how modern zora are most likely the result of divine meddling. With the sand goddess being an epithet like how the greek pantheon has
I never got past Arbiters grounds as a kid (my sibling finished the game and I watched most of it… this is usually how I experience games… I’m bad at games…) (I want to try it again now that I’m older and less jumpy.. and a little better at games) but I LOVE the Lore of this game, it makes me so flipping happy. Thank you for this Lore video (idk why but I wanted to write “Bandit-Senpai”… the fuck)
Edit: Also my theory on the Deku tree is whenthat the great deku tree in OoT died, only his spirit died, the tree itself lived on and continued to grow (in WW the forest is IN dead, giant tree. I think that’s the same tree. If that makes sense) along side the ones it planted, but because they were never… activated.. they never got the sentience/got a soul…
I thought it was already confirmed that gerudo’s were descendants of goose and the second you started sharing the story of city in the sky I was instantly thinking oh yeah that makes sense that some people in skyloft would stay but you didn’t follow it like that.
Everybody knows Groose is the forefather of the Gerudos. Just SAY it, doggone you! Hahahahaha!
The hole, gorudo and hylian relational sense. Also in that case I think that Gruse was the primary gorudo ancestor, he looks the part.
I believe that the forest temple just chooses not to display its sentience as to not attract too much attention. Also the monkeys are the kokiri.
The boss chamber is a single dead tree. I think that's the remains of the original deku tree
I like to think the desert goddess is actually not one of the three golden goddesses or Hylia but just another goddess in the pantheon of Hyrulian lore. We actually don't know much about the religions of Hyrule beyond the creation myth told in OoT and the story of Hylia and Skyloft in SS. There could be just as many gods and goddesses with as many stories as the Greek, Norse, Egyptian, or Hindu pantheons, we just don't hear about them because they're not relevant to the story. I like to think that the desert goddess could maybe be to the Gerduo what Hylia is to the Hylians. Like, maybe after the three golden goddesses left after creating the earth Hylia became the patron deity of the people who would eventually name themselves after her while the desert goddess was the deity of the people who'd eventually become the Gerudo and the four giants became the deities of Termina. It's also possible that since Nayru is the goddess of wisdom and her sage in Oracle of Ages is the sage of time and Hylia is also associated with wisdom and time by Zelda's possession of the Triforce of Wisdom and the Ocarina of Time that Hylia may actually be Nayru's daughter. If that's true, the dessert goddess could then be Din's daughter. The desert goddess and Demise could even be brother and sister, like Ares and Athena, explaining how a male deity like Demise is connected to the all female Gerudo, who we never saw in his origin story presented in SS. Maybe just as Hylia sent her people into the sky to protect them from Demise the desert goddess tried to protect her people by making it so they could only have one male born every 100 years in order to limit and isolate Demise's ability to reincarnate himself.
In regards to the mural discussed during the Sky City explanation, I feel as though it would be more appropriate that the pictures within the mural represent a different era from its neighbours. After all, each Zelda game (with a couple of exceptions) happen in a very distinct timeframe, distinct from the others, but each has a Link - and many Links start their adventure in childhood (thinking OoT and Wind Waker here). Even in games that deviate from this timeline, I still think it's fair to say there are who knows how many versions of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf playing the same song - even in games we haven't actually encountered, or that Nintendo plan to release. After all, the official timeline tries to connect the games - but there's nothing saying that the games happen a set amount of time apart.
Alternatively, the young soldiers could be more ceremonial, an acknowledgement of the child hero from ages past. Even if the story had been lost to history, traditions do have a way of sticking around. This would be more official-timeline-friendly, but strikes me as the weaker of the two outcomes.
Very awesomely interesting and intriguing inspiring video, I really loved and enjoyed it.
I got a lot sparks of inspiration for the novella collection series Mysteriarch Mythos anthology I’m working on writing.
I so very much love getting inspiration from the Zelda series, the lore of the legend of Zelda is so awesome and inspiring as well as interesting.
The deku tree sprout pops up right in front of the old hollowed deku tree so maybe after many years and multiple trees and sprouts they had spread out enough that the kokiri just moved in as it was safer
0:17 don't apologize for the truth.
Hey Bandit! Love your work! Can I please request more OCARINA videos? 🙏🏻
6:14 YEAH PANDO!!! Such a beautiful place, being from Utah, I've visited here several times, and it's so cool!
yes!! best dungeons in the series imo!!
I would have disagreed with you, but after playing through TP for a dungeon ranking tier list video on the Arbiters grounds on my channel, I might have to agree with you there. You should check it out and tell me what you think! I'm still a new channel and your opinion would mean a ton!
For Arbitors Grounds, maybe the Hylians attacked and claimed rule over all Gerudo (blaming them for Ganondorf maybe) and built a prison inside and thru their temples as extra insult and symbolic oppression
I think the section dealing with the history of the various bird-people is flawed. The Rito as they are in Wind Waker are adult timeline people who evolved to meet the circumstances of the flooded world. TP is from the child timeline and does not take place long enough after OoT to allow for evolution of an entire race from Zora into Rito into Oocca or Hylian into Oocca.
This means the Oocca are most likely an ancient race of people that either evolved into the Zora, evolved from the people who never left Skyloft, or are their own thing completely. It is likely the mural is not full of Rito, but rather the intermediate step between Oocca now and their more human bodies. Or cynically the mural was made when the Oocca design was in it's previous iteration and they didn't redo the temple decor when they updated the look.
Either way, Oocca cannot be Rito as the Rito will not show up in the child timeline until the merging event that unites the timelines. That or BotW actually happens in the adult timeline and some Zora just never left the ocean and didn't get involved with WW
That and Medli the Rito is stated to be a descendant of Laruto, a Zora. Rito in Wind Waker are all but stated to be evolved versions of the Zora.
My personal opinion is the Ooca are the Skyloft residents who never went to the surface. I mean, you can only have so many sky civilizations above Hyrule.
@@wanderingswampbeast6561 that's where my mind is at as well
I agree that the oocca are not rito but it is technically possible for races to evolve in different timelines. One example is the monster zora which appear in both the downfall and child timelines despite evolving after the timeline split. So the rito could eventually evolve in the child timeline under the right conditions.
I've been eagerly awaiting this one!!
3:04
Having played Twilight Princess way to many times as it’s my favorite Zelda game Ive personally made the connection that Faron Wood could be the Kokiri Forest but since it’s 100 years after Ocarina and we see the ruins of the temple of time in the forest I’ve made the connection that it’s possible that Kokiri Forest started to take over most of what was older Hyrule causing them to relocate
I think 'if' as many have suspected that Groose, from Skyward Sword, was the progenitor of the Gerudo then the statue from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess is likely Goddess Hylia. Or as Groose would have seen her Zelda, the statues may even be how Groose viewed Zelda instead of the Goddess Hylia.
Such a great piece of work ❤ love it
Totally need to do a Dungeon Lore Video on The original LoZ and Adventure of Link
17:20 gorons already existed back then and the zora are more likely the descendants of the parellas
I always love when dungeons take real world mythos into account, so I will always like Death Sword and the Arbiter's Grounds (and the City in the Sky). Though I really love the fact that they went all out and actually gave the dungeons names instead of "forest temple, shadow temple," etc.
Hay btw, the strange mural that appears in twilight HD is non canon. Since TW HD was outsourced… I guess (A third party developed it and not exactly Nintendo, I dunno if that counts as outsourcing) the developers confirmed in twitter that they just designed that mural for fun and has no meaningful back story… I think Zeltik did a whole video about how this mysterious lore was fake
As far as your theory in the Arbiters Grounds, I completely agree that the Gerudos and Hylians became allies and built it together. If we follow both the Timeline in the Hyrule Historia and the revised Timeline in the LoZ Encyclopedia(because why would Nintendo make anything simple?) there are two games following Twilight Princess: Four Swords Adventures and Breath Of The Wild (I'm considering Nintendos' ham-fisted answer as to where BotW falls in the timeline, for reasons). In both of these games, the relationship between the Gerudo and the Hylians have improved, to the point they now associate much more openly with each other, as opposed to the usual hostility they seemed to meet each other with in Ocarina Of Time. In FSA, they're much friendlier, and in BOTW we see Gerudos and Hylians courting each other, without the assistance of imprisonment as we see in Ocarina. And I feel Ganondorf is what caused it. Humor me here.
Link and Zelda team together to stop Ganondorf at the end of Ocarina when Link is sent back to his childhood. Ganondorf is taken prisoner, and the Hylian Royal Family now has some questions for the Gerudo, since Ganondorf hailed from them. The Hylians and Gerudo engage in negotiations regarding Ganondorf, with a number of Gerudo adamantly standing their ground that Ganondorf doesn't speak for all of them. We know this to be true with Nabooru, at the very least, and it's hard to imagine she'd be alone in this sentiment. Eventually the Gerudo and Hylians make a truce: Ganondorf is taken prisoner, and the two peoples will repair their relationship so this kind of thing doesn't happen again. Ganondorf isn't just your ordinary prisoner, though. He plotted to take over the entire kingdom, after all. Clearly some regular prison isn't going to cut it. So they begin constructing the Arbiters Grounds. Ganondorf becomes the prisoner of honor, and one of the first to be executed. Personally, I feel Koume and Kotake might have been awaiting execution with him, as they supported his hostile takeover of Hyrule with all their beings, but they'd eventually break out, as we see them in the true ending to the Oracle games later on, but that's for another time.
But it may explain why the Arbiters Grounds has signs of both cultures in its' appearance and construction, and it's all because of Ganondorf. My head canon, at least.
A much darker theory I've heard in regards to the Arbiter's Grounds is that it was originally a Gerudo temple or city structure, possibly even an expanded Spirit Temple, but after Ganondorf was revealed to be evil and captured the Hylians turned against the Gerudo as a whole for basically raising the symbol of Evil. The royal family hastily occupied the area and built it into a prison to house the entire Gerudo population, and after the attempted execution of Ganondorf ended with the death of one of the Sages, they turned that lingering anger onto the captive Gerudo. This would explain why there are no Gerudo anywhere in Twilight Princess, as well as why there are so many skeletons and ghosts in the temple. Personally, I think that theory doesn't hold water; it has a lot of holes and a lot of things that don't match up. But it's still a decently neat theory.
Watching this again as i was trying to figure out if there was a connection to the forest temple and the Great Deku Tree. Seems like there are a lot of naysayers on the interwebz. I get it's not proof, but the kokiri symbol on the doors is a pretty good clue. Part of why I love Zelda is that they don't spell everything out for you, and you have to use your imagination or wonder about the mysteries between the games.
The Mural isn't canon, it was made by an outside team when they were tasked with up-scaling the textures, they just added in known visual events.
It was not designed by Aonuma and his team, it's completely irrelevant to Zelda lore, just an easter egg.
Snowpeak is epic but my favorite is the city in the sky of which can make you feel like you're going crazy after awhile. Also City in the sky reminds me of ghostscrapers in the similar vibe.
16, if anyone is curious. 16 shots are in order. Great video, both of you!