I hope you all have a great week everyone! Once again fingers crossed for a Nintendo presence at the Game Awards 🤞 And be sure to give my friend Bandit the love he deserves: ruclips.net/video/YCerY9HHhio/видео.html
@@Semudara The Shadow Temple is definitely a disturbing place all its own, but I can't help thinking that Ganondorf must've at least helped in some way (either directly through helping to break the well's seal, and/or because his hold on the Triforce was said to directly corrupt the sacred temples). It particularly gets to me knowing that Impa, and other Sheikah before her, was apparently a frequent visitor to the place...... I mean, even if they are specially trained to operate in darkness, I do not wanna imagine a routine stroll through that hellhole if its current state actually wasn't the result of Ganondorf's (or Bongo-Bongo's) influence (plus, if the "sages are dead" theory does hold true, it would suggest that the severity of the temple had gotten to a point where even Impa could no longer handle it only shortly before Link entered it seven years later..... then again, it's also possible that Impa just died in a direct confrontation with Bongo-Bongo after its escape from the well). And then there's the jail cells...... torture chamber or not, those things would indicate that the temple served as a living space, for both prisoners and possibly guards/wardens, at least at one point (and as mentioned in the video, if it was used as a jail shortly following the civil war, it wouldn't have been that many years before the start of the game). Though, I can't help being amused at the idea that Ganondorf, being the king of darkness, actually would be the type of person who could take a casual stroll through the place (even more so than a Sheikah), possibly having a friendly chat with Bongo-Bongo over some tea. XD Of course, the Bottom of the Well being how it is even before Ganondorf's reign could lend some credence to the idea of the Shadow Temple's corruption being all-natural. However, two factors could determine this to not necessarily be the case. 1) Link's visit to the well could be non-canonical and is mostly there purely for gameplay reasons (the manga and some other media seems to hint that Link never returns to the past until Zelda sends him there; as far as the story's concerned, Link wakes up seven years in the future and he stays there until Ganondorf's defeated, while the VERY few post-Master Sword childhood events, like encountering Nabooru, are meant to be interpreted differently than their portrayal in-game). And 2) the well could've been influenced by the presence of Bongo-Bongo being sealed within it, an influence that quickly transferred to the Shadow Temple once Bongo-Bongo retreated to it (if Link entering the well actually is canon, then one mystery that always concerned me is WHERE Bongo-Bongo actually was seven years ago and why Link never encountered it back then...... like, is it sealed somewhere within the walls and floors of the dungeon as opposed to the dungeon itself being its prison?). There's also that theory about Redeads (and perhaps other undead monsters) actually being failed Sheikah experiments that were intended to guard the royal family.
The piece of heart at the bottom of Jabu's pool under where he would be when Link becomes an adult is a HUGE factor in me thinking he died as a result of either the curse or the climate change of Zora's Domain.
And think about this, even in the future Child timeline, Jabu Jabu is nowhere to be seen. It may just be (thanks to the original timeline) that characters like the Deku tree and Jabu Jabu are Fated to die when they do - and that freezing climate change is Fated to come to his pool (ala the creation of Snow Peak). We're getting into REALLY esoteric Time travel dynamics here, but I feel (like Steins;Gate) that certain events that happen once are essentially guaranteed to happen again because ultimately the world line never changed. So even though Ganondorf was stopped in the future, the Deku Tree would still die, Jabu Jabu would disappear once again, and the Characters Fated to be Sages in the Adult timeline WILL inevitably become Sages in the future Child timeline.
Thanks for making my edits look bad. Just kiddinggg (kind of) thank you for having me on sir! It's always a pleasure, and of course, congrats on once again making a beautiful video! P.S. Ocarina of Time is objectively the best Zelda ok thank you bye
I figured the Shadow Temple's current appearance is in part from the buildup of Malice therein. We already know from OoT itself that hatred spawns evil ghosts and spirits (e.g. Poes), and the rest of the series has since expanded on how negative emotions can give rise to monsters and distort creatures and even landscapes. Ergo, the torture and executions in the Shadow Temple bred a lot of Malice and restless spirits, then it was sealed off for who knows how long and left to rot, giving us the hostile complex we see. (Personally, I also think most if not all of the unfortunate undead stem from the Era of Chaos, not the Unification War.)
Your discussion of Jabu Jabu also just made me realize something: He's not in the child timeline either, as we don't see or hear about him in Twilight princess, which, if I'm not mistaken, is only 100 years after OOT? So.....maybe he did suffer the same fate as the Deku Tree, dying despite Link's efforts. Which really adds a sadness to the story. The Hero of Time couldn't save everyone, no matter how hard he tried. And maybe, with the Guardian deities gone, it made the eventual takeover of Hyrule in TP much easier for Ganon-Zant. Maybe the deaths of the Guardian deities is what tipped off Hyrule that Ganondorf was being shady, and led to the appointment of new sages, to bring Ganondorf to justice in the child timeline, setting the stage for the Twilight war
@@TheOnlyGuy69 I was born this way, shit gut and acid reflux. Not fun at all, when I was five I had a bleeding ulcer, then I had another one when I was 7. I hate my stomach.
The reason the Deku Tree may have died is because Queen Gohma may have attacked and withered its roots of the tree itself. The boss room is where the trees roots would be. The room itself is very grey and red and could of been a sign that the Tree was far too late to save.
I always thought that parasite was always there, but as soon as the curse happened it was able to take more energy from the tree therefore the tree died when the curse was lifted.. it was too late.. but I like these theories more
You know, whenever these kinds of collabs happen, it's almost weird when they DON'T give each other a hard time at some point in the script. Always love these videos, you guys!
There is a rumour concerning the great tree and the elder kikwi in skyward sword. When the elder kikwi eventually passes, his spirit is chosen to continue protecting the forest and put into the great tree. Ultimately creating the first sentient Deku tree with the spirit of someone who cares most for the forest.
I don't think Link was sent inside the Deku Tree JUST as a test. It was also to get rid of Queen Gohma before his death. In that, I assume that the great tree was keeping her inside; with his inevitable death, she would have been free to make babies and attack the Kokiri, very very close by. Link was being tested, and he thought he was saving the Deku Tree, but he was also preventing the destruction of the forest or at least the people inside of it. He had planned to starve out the Gorons, and to freeze the Zora, and it just doesn't make sense to me that Gohma would have just let the Great Deku Tree die and then leave the other people of the land known for holding one of the elemental icons necessary to open the temple of time, and which would one day host a sage.
I actually LOVE the fire temple. Its simple layout didn't cause orientation problems like other dungeons did when I was younger, as it was the first 3D Zelda game and I was feeling a bit lost all the time (Hyrule field for example, is quite small, but it looked and felt huge at the time). I loved the music (the censored version is actually much more intense than the original, especially on old TVs), and the connection between the floors where you can see a hint of what you should do to progress. Out of noastalgia, it is still my all-time favourite and I find myself listening to its music all the time.
Timestamps: 0:00 - intro 3:29 - Inside the Great Deku Tree 7:39 - Inside Jabu Jabu (aka. the most disgusting dungeon in Zelda history; Doctor Link's house visit) 11:13 - Fire Temple (the hot new place to try out our new delicacy: Gorons!) 14:29 - Shadow Temple (aka. the dungeon that might have traumatized many kids) Note on the Deku Tree: From the moment Link entered the forest, it was known by the Deku Tree (abbr. DK) that he was the chosen hero, so the foresight to make a trial is not at all ridiculous. Though the thought of making the Kokiri make a dangerous obstacle course inside him is kinda funny. "Dad? Why are we setting booby traps inside of you?" "Because son, I wanna test the hero before he goes outside the forest." The sages being dead doesn't make a lot of sense to me, for one reason: Ruto. She disappears right after you meet her in the Water Temple, and you don't see her again until the end. If at that point she was dead, it would mean that she died sometime after meeting Link, and that part confounds me. You see, Ruto asked Link to follow her; Link would, chances are, listen to her and follow, and so would be there any time a monster threatened her. So the fact she disappears (maybe dies?) right after meeting with Link, in my opinion, makes it more likely that the sages simply get pulled into the sacred realm before they could die. But that's just a theory! A not-so-dead-sage theory! Thanks for reading!
The game developers that worked on OoT already debunked the rumors that the sages are dead. They said the theory is ridiculous because it implied they had to die to be awakened and Zelda, being the 7th sage, was very much alive furthermore, the sacred realm is described as like a pocketdimension, which is how ganon was trapped in it. The sages were likely transported there before their deaths in order to not only save their lives but fulfill their purpose. Finally you see all the sages in hyrule at the end of the game making they are alive ,
Thanks! Another top notch video!! Bummer you moved your live stream videos to your Playlist only 🤔 I used to be able to watch them on the live section of your channel 😐 Now I can't watch them to sleep anymore 😕
Thank you so much for the generosity! I've been unlisting and moving my streams into the Livestream playlist since the start, because if I didn't, they would appear among my regular videos. I wanted to keep my channel clean and focussed on my regular content, and not too cluttered. But recently YT received an update with a seperate "live" section, so perhaps this is not necessary anymore. I shall look into it! If it doesn't clutter up my channel anymore then I have no reason to unlist them ^^
11:13 You kidding me? That's one of the most memorable dungeons cause you're saving the Gorons in it! In fact, it was for some players the first dungeon explored once Link grows into an adult.
That's a great point. You do not need the bow to do anything in the Fire Temple (outside of one optional door that can be opened normally from the other side). You only need the Hookshot to complete up to the point of the Megaton Hammer. Personally I always felt the Fire Temple had a terrific theme. Especially since its Spectacle Rock.
@@Semudara But whats the first thing your eyes see the second you step out of the Temple of Time as an adult? The glowing red cloud above Death Mountain. That draws some players like a magnet. And distance wise, Kakarikko (half-way to Death Mountaint) is closer to Hyrule Castle than Kokiri Forest.
* *watches any other Zelda tuber video* * Oh, hi bandit. 😂 I love the collaborations though, so it’s okay. Some of the best collars are between monster maze and hyrule gamer and zeltik. So good
The fire temple could basically be a battle arena for prisoners. The maze room with boulders have windows above which could be for spectators to view the fights of prisoners. A lot of rooms look like different arena structures such as the metal bridge where when you step on it a wall of fire follows. Plus the boss room looks like a battle arena with the don’t fall of the edge vibe. And in twilight Princess it does confirm that Gorons are into competitive fighting.
I think you’re right, which is sad. I was so aggravated when I saw what BoTW turned the Sheikah into nowadays. They lost all ninja mystery and darkness. Sigh
If they implement the unused horror creatures of the Breath of the wild Creating a Champion book into Tears of the Kingdom it's way scarier. Some of them looked like the aliens in the film Arrival.
For Darunia specifically i like to think that after entering the boss room rauru used his powers to pluck darunia away from the fire temple and into the sacred realm. It may not make sense but that's my head canon
Something Id really like to see is a temple or dungeon w/e that have thorough history haunted in a way like "oh something happened here" but not only just lore but the real architecture appears to have a practical purpose besides "This is a FIRE THEMED maze or vault!"
me seeing the video of lore of the dungeons - OoT.... clicks instinctively thinking this is another bandit video. then before the page loads the vid i see the logo for Don's channel. and sure enough after the page loads... there it is... MONSTER MAZE.... and i asked myself, surely it was bandit doing these vids and not MM.... and sure enough, not even 1 min in and there is bandit. now... i will sit back and enjoy this as two people in my circle, and whose content i enjoy greatly, give me 20 mins of what is to be one of the best Lore of the Dungeons video combining bandits cadence and voice with don's video editing... I CAN NOT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!! ok. ill watch the video now. thanks to both bandit and the monster maze for doing this collab! may you do more in the future!!!!
@@MonsterMaze dont be too modest mate. yours and charlie's accent is mesmerizing. also im glad you have grown as a creator and are doing a lot more your vids. the quality you put out is top notch! i remember how timid your voice was when you started, but look at you now! cant wait to see what you put out next!
@@patrickaycock3655 Thank you! Yeah I have a hard time watching back some of my older videos... my voice sounded incredibly forced compared to the more relaxing tone I've been able to strike nowadays. But that means there is growth, so there is that! ^^ Thanks as always for the OG support
One thing about the Fire Temple in OoT is that it is likely the future location of Ganon's Lair in the original LoZ. Both are located in/on Death Mountain. And although its not specifically named in OoT it does seem like Spectacle Rock, where Ganon's Lair is located in the original, is located inside the Death Mountain Crater directly above the Fire Temple
3:00 hough that spatial sound scared me out of my seat 'cause i thought someone had snuck into my room while i was distracted. 10/10 unintentional jumpscare, starting off the weekend before halloween just right
I suspect that the great Deku tree also desired Link to purge his body of the curse before he died despite knowing that he was doomed; it's a common theme in eastern and western folklore that dying while cursed leads to being tormented in the afterlife as well.
I’ve always loved Zelda videos that go for Watsonian (I.e. in universe logic, as in the Sherlock Holmes books are presented as real true stories as told by Watson and published in newspapers or from his personal journals and diaries) explanations for game mechanics and level design, and then contrasting them with Doyleist explanations (in reality, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was the author of the fictional Holmes stories). Zelda was always my favourite Nintendo series because of this, Mario was fun but too abstract in level design to get into this way (although 64 and galaxy definitely have some elements like that and why I love them the most, and was disappointed when Galaxy 2 ignored story and was more obstacle course focused in level design). My favourite dungeons have always been the Shadow Temple and Forest Temple in OOT, but I think they perfected it in TP, especially the second run of dungeons. In a way, it’s a proto soulsborne approach to storytelling, but even more difficult to piece together with certainty and more susceptible to reading into things that aren’t there. Love it when dungeons and bosses have that depth beyond strict gameplay, and I’d love to see them tied more into the narrative of Hyrule both in its history as well as the actual story of a game (SS sorta did that, but I think it could be done better).
As a youngster in the 90’s the thing that made me doubt about the sages faith was what Saria said to link after finishing the forest temple. But in these days it’s easy to pull parallels between the faith of the champions in botw and the sages. Think the faiths are the same. In another build of OoT the medaillons would’ve given link powers as well, just like the champions do after finishing the DB’s. So I think these resemblances are on purpose, just a thought
Oh yeah! Plus "death" doesn't always mean gone in the Zelda series. Especially for beings who have a special role to play like guardians and sages. Even if they did "die in the flesh", it's possible that they simply ascended into a new state of being. Sages have always been quite ellusive. In Twilight Princess they appear as ethereal beings compared to regular mortals.
Haha TP is amazing! My top 5 Zelda games tends to shift around quite a lot. Usually it depends on which one I played last, or played too much, etc. I don't really have a destinct favourite, since each has their own strengths and weaknesses. But I do think Majora is one of the greatest and most unique sequels ever made ^^
My favorites often shift too. Usually when I play too much of a specific Zelda game and I want to try something different. Twilight princess will probably always be my favorite, unless Nintendo absolutely nocks it out of the park with Tears of the Kingdom or any other future games. Twilight princess was the first game I played and owned, so it will always have a special place in my heart.
I mean, it's not like you get many opportunities to talk to her, and when you do meet her again it's not really the right moment for "btw my pet fish died".
Small correction: The boat in the Shadow Temple had a different appearance to it in the N64 version of the game. The reference to boatman of the river Styx wasn't added until the 3DS remake.
@@Alexandre.Moonwell Never said it wasn't canon. Just noting that the N64 version was different (likely due to software limitations at the time), and that BEFORE the 3DS remaster, the boatman wasn't there.
It sounded, to me, like they were just talking about the boat itself being a reference, since it is a boat on a river of spirits. They didn't directly reference the figurehead as the nod to the myth. Just my take away, if it helps clarify?
@@ArcaneKnight3 It doesn't clarify because you're assuming that I didn't ALREADY know that. The point is that the boat in the N64 version had a DIFFERENT APPEARANCE. That's it.
i love (and by love i mean find incredibly sad but interesting) the theory that Volvagia was a guardian spirit like the Great deku tree, but something happened and he went mad
an interesting concept that I just realized is that bongo bongo could have been a victim of an execution method called blood letting, it has all of the necessary points for it to be the case, being hung by the feet, wrists and neck slit, and all the color in the areas that seem to be cut off like the forearms is drained to a sickly color. the head of bongo bongo seems to be slightly intact except for it being split open although it looks like its just the lower head that's intact like the jaw and the esophagus.
My take on the Fire Temple was always that it was built by an ancient group of Hylians- as a lot of its architecture does not resemble that of Gorons. Maybe it was built FOR Volvagia, as a peace treaty of sorts between her and the ancient people. When they left and the Gorons settled, Volvagia was enraged at their eating of the rocks and crude destruction of her home. Makes me think Volvagia isn't even evil at all. Valoo existing in the Wind Waker implies that Volvagia may have been simply defending a nest or something. Always thought that Volvagia was a more tragic antagonist; as she was slain for reasons that were probably out of her control. Twice. Who knows, maybe the Goron's Ruby was hers??? this is why I love OoT speculation lol it never ends
That doesn't explain turning the whole site into one of the most fearsome prisons in gaming though; eating Gorons when possible (rated 'E' right Nintendo?!) and not at least attacking Ganondorf in a battle who clearly went there. Then there's the whole 'building by Hylians' you suggest in the 1st place - I mean, it's only 100+ degrees down there?!
I already mentioned this on CaptBurgerson's Dungeon Design video on the Fire Temple, but I'll go ahead and put this theory down here too, which isn't my own I may add, but I can't remember where or who exactly it came from. The theory goes like this. The Fire Temple is a place of worship for the Gorons by the time Link gets there but they WEREN'T the ones who built it. Looking at Goron made structures in OoT such as Goron City and Dodongo's Cavern, while certainly impressive they pale in comparison to the intricate and elaborate regal designs found all throughout the Fire Temple. Especially in the murals on the walls and the tiki-esque statues which don't look a whole lot like Gorons or Goron statues compared to the one we see in Darunia's room. Me personally, I believe that they look more like... the Flare Dancers. Ancient Gorons who entered the temple long ago for rock excavation purposes probably disturbed Volvagia sleeping in the Volcano and probably was at one point a guardian fire spirit much like that of The Great Deku Tree and Lord Jabu-Jabu. We even see what may as well be either a descendant or reincarnation of the dragon with Valoo in the Wind Waker. Maybe I'm putting way too much thought into this, but the Fire Temple is my favorite OoT dungeon. The original theme is also top notch too.
Agreed, It could very well have been built by other hands. A tribe seperate from them. Maybe ancient Hylians? The architecture is definitly unique and not comparable to modern Hylian architecture. It's a very old structure for sure.
You missed that there are other huge sentient trees like the Maku tree and also how the Fire Temple is seemingly built into the two smokestacks with the heart piece on them we see in the heart of death mountain crater. The map basically is two volcanic chimneys.
@0:57 Story telling through the environment didn't start with OoT but Links Awakening. Actually many thing from out were intact taken from links awakening. Fishing, trading, and actual story progression, dungeons with different music, ect
the fire temple was mad memorable, i definitely remember the music, temple rooms, and just trying to figure out how to get into certain rooms, I'll never forget it
Lord Jabu Jabu also appeared in Oracle of Ages, both as baby and as fully grown thanks to Time Travel, and since this takes place after A Link to the Past which takes place around a century after the Bad Ending of Ocarina of Time, I guess this could be the same Lord Jabu Jabu
But it's in a completly different part of the world, and if the Oracle games' intros are to be taken seriously, in another dimension as well, with that portal thing in the beginning.
I remember when this came out. I was about 13. This was and still is a gold standard for me. The story was amazing. I had played the crud out of Link to the Past, this was such a monumental leap. I bawled my eyes out at the end. I was so sad when Saria didn't come back.
My theory on why the Deku tree is how it is on the inside is for the same reason why Link is going there in the first place. The Tree needed an internal structure for people to go inside and fix anything that's broken, since we don't know if Link was the first one to help with an infestation.
@@MonsterMaze Yup. There's an Ocarina of Time manga where Link buys a caged baby Volvagia for 70 rupees. Volvagia ends up being corrupted by Ganon in the 7 year time skip, and they're forced to fight. Link cuts his head off, and Volvagia's last words are Link's name as he dies. Really twisted stuff lol
@@hctaz I'll admit, that's kind of inconsistent with the narrative, though. When did this happen? Link didn't even know what money was when he first entered Castle Town, and he never stopped there again after leaving Hyrule Castle, so how could he possibly have obtained Volvagia?
@@Wolffman109I think he got an adequate introduction to the concept of money as he was hopping around collecting rupees and buying a Deku Shield in Kokiri Forest... 😂
@@BULLTRONHERO Not in the manga, which is what we are talking about. Link made the Deku Shield from the Deku Tree's remains, and didn't need money in a forest full of children.
If anything I wish that an Ocarina of Time/ Majora's Mask combo Game existed where if you have a completed Ocarina of Time Save then you can take things that you would expect Young Link to have during Majora's Mask such as: having Epona's Song and the Song of Storms available as you as you regain the Ocarina of Time, Blessings from the Great Fairies that effect your Health and Magic, the Lens of Truth, Deku Stick and Deku Nut Upgrades, Heart Containers, Bomb Bag Upgrades, Quiver Upgrades. Having Data from OoC would also increase the Max Cap on Hearts, Magic, Deku Sticks and Nuts, Bombs and Quiver consumables and Great Fairy Upgrades.
Maybe the blind rat statues of the shadow temple represented a form of punishment/torture, maybe those uncooperative had their eyes targeted until they spoke, maybe the torturers considered the prisoners as pests hence the statues being rats. Nonetheless it's horrific.
Those elements of horror are something I'd really like to see more of in newer games. Even with the return of gibdos in TotK, Nintendo still seems to be straying away from the whole "undead" angle. Sure, it's still hinted at, but it's like they built in an escape hatch so they can always claim that they're insects and not corpses at all. Compare that to the N64 games with numerous clear references to restless spirits, tortured souls, and the living dead.
Jabu-Jabu also resembles the Catfish Maw from Link’s Awakening. Although the dungeon uses standard dungeon tiles like sand and rocks, in the original Gameboy games the head does not appear to be made of stone. It also resembles the Catfish who gives Link the Earthquake medallion in LTTP, and appears to be the dark world equivalent of King Zora
Yes! 👍 I think 'gamers' especially nowadays judge & want things to be too squeaky 'clean'. Jabu's Belly is genius simply because it's so unapologetically and purposely gross yet the theming is so so unique & novel _even_ to this day - what dungeon & and an actual full one uses the internals of a Giant magical fish??! It's concept has more than stood the test of time. It's fun to dip into and simply Epic when the situation dawns on you.
My take on Jabu Jabu is a bit more medical than I'd anticipated. But, even with the 3DS graphics you can see the white patches and the "webbing" on his insides. The ulcers, some that are clearly badly infected with the purple around them. And patches of green (gangrene) are everywhere. The monsters inside him are largely parasitic, and in my opinion, the curse isn't just a sickness, it's to suffer in sickness while he lives through his body rotting away. A lot, aside from the Lizalfos, is pointing me to this idea. He's given a waking sickness, and he dies just like the deku tree dies, but I think he has somehow made an egg at the bottom of the pond he is in. While it's not clear how the guardian spirits reproduce, the deku tree was a single tree and is gendered as Male. But leaves a seed behind that grows into the Great Deku Sapling. I think perhaps, knowing the sickness would kill him, Jabu Jabu dropped an egg to secure the existence of the guardian spirit. Many fish eggs can survive in cold water, because of the (scrapped) nearby ice dungeon, I assume the water is cold. In my opinion, I think it's highly plausible that the Lord dies, while his egg is secure at the bottom of the pond, fed by the water flowing around him, and grows up to become Jabun.
11:44 pretty sure Capcom also used the exact same stock chanting track back in the day when it was used in a battle theme in the Jungle map in Monster Hunter but when the map was remade in the latest game Sunbreak the chanting is gone
In my mind / headcanon the fire temple was a place of worshipping Volvagia himself (itself?) as the deity of death mountain. The style doesn't really look like any kind of Goron construction we've seen, and we know that in Skyward sword they were a more nomadic race. I think the Gorons probably stumbled across something far more ancient in their mining operations at Death Mountain, accidentally uncovering the temple and causing volvagia's first rampage and subsequent defeat at the hands of the ancient Goron hero.
There's some sense to that, especially since before (Eldin) and after (Valoo) there have been at least similarly classed beings from the same species of Volvagia acting as the guardians of the land. It would be interesting to think on why Volvagia turned against the people it was apparently there to protect.
The Muslim community would’ve never been offended by the music. If you look into the reaction. A vast majority of them supported it because of the idea went into it. They knew there’s no ill intent behind it. Someone just thought it was a cool chant and included, and they welcomed it.
I think it was Zeltik who had a great theory about Volvagia, that he's the guardian of the area in the same way the Deku Tree and Jabu Jabu are for their areas. Why he turned on the Gorons and had to be defeated could be that he was corrupted by an evil older than Ganondorf or because the Gorons were doing environmental damage, or some other reason. But it's a cool theory and makes sense given that Valoo is a guardian in Wind Waker as well.
Oh for sure; it's no lost theory that otherwise docile or even allies that are sentient beings have been used in the past by an evil mage to gain 'control' of them to do their bidding or just simply corrupt them. Ghirahim with Koloktos, possibly Vaati with the Gyrog Pair. Guardians of course; there are so many direct examples.
You say "turned on the Gorons" ... perhaps Gorons were the "bad guys" here? Consider in Skyward Sword we saw the Mogma on Death Mountain, and not the Gorons ... perhaps Volvagia was the guardian spirit of the Mogma, and the temple (built by Mogma, Hylians, both, or neither, doesn't really matter for this theory) was built in the dragon's honor. Now imagine the Gorons (who are shown to be nomadic/homeless in Skyward Sword and Wind Waker) decide that Death Mountain looks like a nice spot, and start to move in, and a conflict ensues with the Mogma. Volvagia, seeing the threat to the Mogma, attacks the Gorons but is defeated, and the Mogma are wiped out. History is then written by the victors, and the Gorons tell tales of their valiant heroes slaying the evil dragon terrorizing their people. Fast forward to Ocarina, and Ganondorf doesn't need to find an evil dragon, he just needs to resurrect the pissed off failed guardian deity who wants its revenge on the Gorons for what they did to its followers ...
The Shadow Temple has to be my second favorite dungeon of the series, after Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask. I actually enjoy the darker elements of Zelda. A theory I've been wanting to see discussed is the lore behind Dead Hand. That mini boss actually creeped me out way more than Bongo Bongo. I've wondered if maybe both creatures were actually created by the Sheikah, maybe through horrendous scientific experiments(we know the Sheikah are scientifically inclined, if the lore from Skyward and BOTW is any indication). Maybe the creators of the Shadow Temple created Deadhand as a way to brutally torture enemies of Hyrule. I mean, if you get locked into a room with disembodied arms and a blob-like creature with a humanistic head thay slowly devours you, you'd probably confess to just about anything.
Also, the river boat is interesting for a couple of reasons. If you look closely, the "River" is not water, but is made to look like ghosts(at leasy in the 3D remake). It makes me think of some depictions of the underworld in mythology. When the boat gets to the end of the river, Navi warns you the boat is sinking, and the boat actually falls down into an abyss, though it doesn't sink as if it's in water. This makes me think that the boat is a method of transporting people to the afterlife, not merely a watercraft. In fact it seems to run along a rail of sorts, not flowing with the current of water
Everyone loves the darker aspects of Zelda. When my youngest brother played OoT for the first time (with a hefty amount of help from me) he got really scared by Deadhand, and I had to take over that fight.
I always assumed the temples inside of the guardians were not strictly physical spaces. The scale just doesn't work, look at the size of Link in comparison to the Deku tree or the giant fish. There are so many rooms in each dungeon that accommodate a Link-sized individual, way more than could physically fit in either guardian. It always made much more sense to me that they were some sort of extra-dimensional spaces, or magical realms, conjured by the guardian. I mean, the guardians are powerful magical beings, and the space inside them could not possibly fit a whole dungeon, and there are lots of tales in fiction where you walk through a threshold and 'magic' makes a space seem impossibly big. It would also explain why there are a bunch of man-made things inside. Those things aren't actually physical objects that are man-made, they are part of the magic that has been conjured to make the space to the guardian's current interest/specifications. If someone else entered the space, at a different time, and the guardian needed a different setup, they could change it at will. It just makes sense to me.
8:26 musician here - unless there’s something I’m not hearing, there’s nothing irregular or off beat here. I think you’re hearing ghost notes or the triplet from the percussionist and thinking that’s meant to be a heartbeat? To me, the only thing I can hear is the percussionist playing a tasteful, tribal - esque beat ❤ However, I can definitely see how the particular beat pattern that he is playing might have been chosen specifically to imitate a heart that beats irregularly, symbolized by the syncopation being the way it is. The “long note, triplet, short note, repeat” pattern could absolutely signify that. Maybe i can’t hear it well enough cause the clip is short? I dunno! I could be wrong! But, even if you’re like me and you can’t hear a heartbeat, you can physically see the walls inside of Jabu Jabu “breathing” (because it’s the inside of his organs) and they definitely increase and decrease in speed from calm rooms to fighting/boss rooms if I recall correctly! It’s been a long time since I played OOT but I seem to remember that being a thing! So even if it wasn’t put into the song intentionally to symbolize Jabu’s condition, we can definitely say that, given the context, that’s what it symbolizes now! :D
I think you are right. Irregular is the wrong wording. I added that line last-minute without developing it first ^^. I do suspect they placed the second "thump" of the heartbeat slightly behind the lower precussion to make it sound a bit... off. It does follow the rythmm consitantly, so again... not irregular, but I guess I would say that it sounds a bit unconventional. Which is great btw! They could've easily gone with an easy heartbeat type of rythmm, but instead they were more creative with it and went beyond that ^^
@@MonsterMaze well hey, thanks for responding first of all - love both you and Bandit, very good video to collaborate on :) also, I could totally be wrong about the heartbeat thing; I could just not be able to easily identify/hear/pick out exactly what you’re referring to in the video. Like I said in my comment, I could be totally wrong and they DID actually put a heartbeat sound into the song. Sometimes musicians overthink / over analyze stuff too 😅 but i don’t think whether or not there is an intentionally placed heartbeat in the track affects your points in any significant way. It’s still clear regardless of the heartbeat that both the Deku Tree and Jabu Jabu are intended to be “sick” / “cursed”, there’s no arguing that ❤️🥰 again thanks for responding, have a great day!!
Nurse here! The sound isn't actually meant to mimic a heartbeat! It's actually meant to mimic bowel sounds - when you listen to someone's stomach through a stethoscope, it emits a similar pattern of noise in a similar pitch.
Here's something I don't get: why doesn't Nintendo, with all their resources in sound design, just re-compose the Fire Temple theme, this time forgoing the public domain Islamic prayers in favor of their own recorded chants that aren't part of any translatable language? Of course, the current Fire Temple theme is just a makeshift replacement they got by replacing the chants with the synthetic vocals that were already being used for the Shadow Temple theme, but you'd think they could've extended more of an effort to the 3DS remake at least (given how the game was completely remade in pretty much every other area).
Gotta go with you on this one MM-Majora’s Mask is objectively the best Zelda game 😉 and not just because your initials are the same! Great collab, love you guys and your work!
I hope you all have a great week everyone! Once again fingers crossed for a Nintendo presence at the Game Awards 🤞
And be sure to give my friend Bandit the love he deserves:
ruclips.net/video/YCerY9HHhio/видео.html
First
Awesome video
Yup
That egoraptor megaman x reference was awesome.
I hope that in tears of the kingdom will bring back dungeons inside of the deku tree
Ganondorf probably took one look at the Shadow Temple and said “I’m obviously not needed here.”
Like "damn, I couldn't make this place more evil if I tried. I'm kind of impressed! I'll just break the seal on the well and then bounce."
@@Semudara The Shadow Temple is definitely a disturbing place all its own, but I can't help thinking that Ganondorf must've at least helped in some way (either directly through helping to break the well's seal, and/or because his hold on the Triforce was said to directly corrupt the sacred temples). It particularly gets to me knowing that Impa, and other Sheikah before her, was apparently a frequent visitor to the place...... I mean, even if they are specially trained to operate in darkness, I do not wanna imagine a routine stroll through that hellhole if its current state actually wasn't the result of Ganondorf's (or Bongo-Bongo's) influence (plus, if the "sages are dead" theory does hold true, it would suggest that the severity of the temple had gotten to a point where even Impa could no longer handle it only shortly before Link entered it seven years later..... then again, it's also possible that Impa just died in a direct confrontation with Bongo-Bongo after its escape from the well). And then there's the jail cells...... torture chamber or not, those things would indicate that the temple served as a living space, for both prisoners and possibly guards/wardens, at least at one point (and as mentioned in the video, if it was used as a jail shortly following the civil war, it wouldn't have been that many years before the start of the game). Though, I can't help being amused at the idea that Ganondorf, being the king of darkness, actually would be the type of person who could take a casual stroll through the place (even more so than a Sheikah), possibly having a friendly chat with Bongo-Bongo over some tea. XD
Of course, the Bottom of the Well being how it is even before Ganondorf's reign could lend some credence to the idea of the Shadow Temple's corruption being all-natural. However, two factors could determine this to not necessarily be the case. 1) Link's visit to the well could be non-canonical and is mostly there purely for gameplay reasons (the manga and some other media seems to hint that Link never returns to the past until Zelda sends him there; as far as the story's concerned, Link wakes up seven years in the future and he stays there until Ganondorf's defeated, while the VERY few post-Master Sword childhood events, like encountering Nabooru, are meant to be interpreted differently than their portrayal in-game). And 2) the well could've been influenced by the presence of Bongo-Bongo being sealed within it, an influence that quickly transferred to the Shadow Temple once Bongo-Bongo retreated to it (if Link entering the well actually is canon, then one mystery that always concerned me is WHERE Bongo-Bongo actually was seven years ago and why Link never encountered it back then...... like, is it sealed somewhere within the walls and floors of the dungeon as opposed to the dungeon itself being its prison?). There's also that theory about Redeads (and perhaps other undead monsters) actually being failed Sheikah experiments that were intended to guard the royal family.
“Yup. Looks good. Keep at it Bongo”
Unless Ganondorf is the one that freed Bongo Bongo.
@@YamatoFukkatsu just a thought, but I like to think link set bongo-bongo free when he killed deadhand
The piece of heart at the bottom of Jabu's pool under where he would be when Link becomes an adult is a HUGE factor in me thinking he died as a result of either the curse or the climate change of Zora's Domain.
Well called! I certainly agree this to be the case. 👍
And think about this, even in the future Child timeline, Jabu Jabu is nowhere to be seen. It may just be (thanks to the original timeline) that characters like the Deku tree and Jabu Jabu are Fated to die when they do - and that freezing climate change is Fated to come to his pool (ala the creation of Snow Peak). We're getting into REALLY esoteric Time travel dynamics here, but I feel (like Steins;Gate) that certain events that happen once are essentially guaranteed to happen again because ultimately the world line never changed. So even though Ganondorf was stopped in the future, the Deku Tree would still die, Jabu Jabu would disappear once again, and the Characters Fated to be Sages in the Adult timeline WILL inevitably become Sages in the future Child timeline.
I just wanted link to hook up with the Zora girl lmao
@@nillynush4899when Link goes back to the child timeline it is already after the deku tree died.
Thanks for making my edits look bad.
Just kiddinggg (kind of) thank you for having me on sir! It's always a pleasure, and of course, congrats on once again making a beautiful video!
P.S. Ocarina of Time is objectively the best Zelda ok thank you bye
Hi
Aww you! Your edits are more fire than you realize!
Same here
💢💫👍🏰
OoT is still king!!
I figured the Shadow Temple's current appearance is in part from the buildup of Malice therein. We already know from OoT itself that hatred spawns evil ghosts and spirits (e.g. Poes), and the rest of the series has since expanded on how negative emotions can give rise to monsters and distort creatures and even landscapes. Ergo, the torture and executions in the Shadow Temple bred a lot of Malice and restless spirits, then it was sealed off for who knows how long and left to rot, giving us the hostile complex we see. (Personally, I also think most if not all of the unfortunate undead stem from the Era of Chaos, not the Unification War.)
Malice is indeed a powerful force in the Zelda series!
So Much malice, that the Boss started vibing with a gigantic bongo.
imagine if we saw the shadow temple in breath of the wild 2
I think this too, I mean torturing prisoners, when one considers the split factions of shiekah and we'll just how deep that dungeon goes I don't know
My favorite part of Jabu-Jabu was when Link pulled out a jar of Tums and instantly beat the dungeon.
That commercial was fire
My favorite part is when he destroyed his heart and probably is the reason why jabu isn't in the adult timeline
my favorite part is when I beat it and dont have to go back to it again
@@unclejesse22546yeah that dungeon was disturbing and terrifying. I couldn’t do it for about a year. I was like 12
@@Stovetopcookie my 10 yr old son is playing this game now. and he is in this dungeon now
Your discussion of Jabu Jabu also just made me realize something: He's not in the child timeline either, as we don't see or hear about him in Twilight princess, which, if I'm not mistaken, is only 100 years after OOT? So.....maybe he did suffer the same fate as the Deku Tree, dying despite Link's efforts.
Which really adds a sadness to the story. The Hero of Time couldn't save everyone, no matter how hard he tried.
And maybe, with the Guardian deities gone, it made the eventual takeover of Hyrule in TP much easier for Ganon-Zant. Maybe the deaths of the Guardian deities is what tipped off Hyrule that Ganondorf was being shady, and led to the appointment of new sages, to bring Ganondorf to justice in the child timeline, setting the stage for the Twilight war
My gut system is almost as bad as jabu jabu's
@@NEW_OG_GAMER Same dude. Same
@@nathanapodaca3456 as a kid I had bleeding olsers all the time
@@NEW_OG_GAMER thanks for sharing. Hope you’re doing ok now
@@TheOnlyGuy69 I was born this way, shit gut and acid reflux. Not fun at all, when I was five I had a bleeding ulcer, then I had another one when I was 7. I hate my stomach.
The reason the Deku Tree may have died is because Queen Gohma may have attacked and withered its roots of the tree itself. The boss room is where the trees roots would be. The room itself is very grey and red and could of been a sign that the Tree was far too late to save.
I always thought that parasite was always there, but as soon as the curse happened it was able to take more energy from the tree therefore the tree died when the curse was lifted.. it was too late.. but I like these theories more
could have*
he was like a father to link......
RIP great deku tree!!
"Could of"?? 🤔🤔
ganon cursed it
You know, whenever these kinds of collabs happen, it's almost weird when they DON'T give each other a hard time at some point in the script. Always love these videos, you guys!
There is a rumour concerning the great tree and the elder kikwi in skyward sword.
When the elder kikwi eventually passes, his spirit is chosen to continue protecting the forest and put into the great tree. Ultimately creating the first sentient Deku tree with the spirit of someone who cares most for the forest.
I don't think Link was sent inside the Deku Tree JUST as a test. It was also to get rid of Queen Gohma before his death. In that, I assume that the great tree was keeping her inside; with his inevitable death, she would have been free to make babies and attack the Kokiri, very very close by. Link was being tested, and he thought he was saving the Deku Tree, but he was also preventing the destruction of the forest or at least the people inside of it.
He had planned to starve out the Gorons, and to freeze the Zora, and it just doesn't make sense to me that Gohma would have just let the Great Deku Tree die and then leave the other people of the land known for holding one of the elemental icons necessary to open the temple of time, and which would one day host a sage.
this makes perfect sense!
I actually LOVE the fire temple. Its simple layout didn't cause orientation problems like other dungeons did when I was younger, as it was the first 3D Zelda game and I was feeling a bit lost all the time (Hyrule field for example, is quite small, but it looked and felt huge at the time). I loved the music (the censored version is actually much more intense than the original, especially on old TVs), and the connection between the floors where you can see a hint of what you should do to progress. Out of noastalgia, it is still my all-time favourite and I find myself listening to its music all the time.
That's censorship pisses me off there was literally nothing wrong with having the chanting in there
3:00 had my headphones on and almost shat myself looking around for someone on my left
Apologies! Haha ^^
Timestamps:
0:00 - intro
3:29 - Inside the Great Deku Tree
7:39 - Inside Jabu Jabu (aka. the most disgusting dungeon in Zelda history; Doctor Link's house visit)
11:13 - Fire Temple (the hot new place to try out our new delicacy: Gorons!)
14:29 - Shadow Temple (aka. the dungeon that might have traumatized many kids)
Note on the Deku Tree: From the moment Link entered the forest, it was known by the Deku Tree (abbr. DK) that he was the chosen hero, so the foresight to make a trial is not at all ridiculous. Though the thought of making the Kokiri make a dangerous obstacle course inside him is kinda funny. "Dad? Why are we setting booby traps inside of you?" "Because son, I wanna test the hero before he goes outside the forest."
The sages being dead doesn't make a lot of sense to me, for one reason: Ruto. She disappears right after you meet her in the Water Temple, and you don't see her again until the end. If at that point she was dead, it would mean that she died sometime after meeting Link, and that part confounds me.
You see, Ruto asked Link to follow her; Link would, chances are, listen to her and follow, and so would be there any time a monster threatened her. So the fact she disappears (maybe dies?) right after meeting with Link, in my opinion, makes it more likely that the sages simply get pulled into the sacred realm before they could die. But that's just a theory! A not-so-dead-sage theory! Thanks for reading!
Monster Maze and BanditGames have excellent and prodigious storytelling chemistry.😇
I always love their collaborations, can't believe I haven't subscribed yet
Agreed, I'd love to see more from them together.
The game developers that worked on OoT already debunked the rumors that the sages are dead. They said the theory is ridiculous because it implied they had to die to be awakened and Zelda, being the 7th sage, was very much alive furthermore, the sacred realm is described as like a pocketdimension, which is how ganon was trapped in it. The sages were likely transported there before their deaths in order to not only save their lives but fulfill their purpose. Finally you see all the sages in hyrule at the end of the game making they are alive ,
Can you link a source on where you heard the developers say that?
Would be interesting to have a video like that about Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks since they are rarely talked about.
Yes pls!
I shall ask the counsil of Zelda theorists if we can discuss these games and uhm... I guess I will get back to you ^^
@@MonsterMaze 👍
Yes. Indeed
Interesting, but….is there enough material? 🤔
Every time you or Bandit says "unexplained symbols" I brace myself for a Zonai mention
Thanks! Another top notch video!!
Bummer you moved your live stream videos to your Playlist only 🤔 I used to be able to watch them on the live section of your channel 😐 Now I can't watch them to sleep anymore 😕
Thank you so much for the generosity!
I've been unlisting and moving my streams into the Livestream playlist since the start, because if I didn't, they would appear among my regular videos. I wanted to keep my channel clean and focussed on my regular content, and not too cluttered. But recently YT received an update with a seperate "live" section, so perhaps this is not necessary anymore. I shall look into it! If it doesn't clutter up my channel anymore then I have no reason to unlist them ^^
Cool video, I had already figured out some of these backstorys but you put it in such a comprehensive way
11:13
You kidding me? That's one of the most memorable dungeons cause you're saving the Gorons in it!
In fact, it was for some players the first dungeon explored once Link grows into an adult.
Least memorable dungeons design lol
That's a great point. You do not need the bow to do anything in the Fire Temple (outside of one optional door that can be opened normally from the other side). You only need the Hookshot to complete up to the point of the Megaton Hammer. Personally I always felt the Fire Temple had a terrific theme.
Especially since its Spectacle Rock.
@@HighPriestFuneral And the Hookshot location is in Kakarikko which is on the way to Death Mountain.
Huh. The game points you so heavily toward the Forest and to saving Saria, it never even occurred to me to do the Fire Temple first.
@@Semudara But whats the first thing your eyes see the second you step out of the Temple of Time as an adult? The glowing red cloud above Death Mountain. That draws some players like a magnet.
And distance wise, Kakarikko (half-way to Death Mountaint) is closer to Hyrule Castle than Kokiri Forest.
* *watches any other Zelda tuber video* *
Oh, hi bandit. 😂
I love the collaborations though, so it’s okay. Some of the best collars are between monster maze and hyrule gamer and zeltik. So good
Gotta love collabs between two of my favorite Zelda tubers 😄
The fire temple could basically be a battle arena for prisoners. The maze room with boulders have windows above which could be for spectators to view the fights of prisoners. A lot of rooms look like different arena structures such as the metal bridge where when you step on it a wall of fire follows. Plus the boss room looks like a battle arena with the don’t fall of the edge vibe. And in twilight Princess it does confirm that Gorons are into competitive fighting.
Maybe it wasn't originally a prison of any sort, but a place for Goron volunteers to test their skills against each other. Like a colosseum of sorts.
I don't think we'll get anything akin to the gruesome backstory of the shadow temple ever again.
I think you’re right, which is sad. I was so aggravated when I saw what BoTW turned the Sheikah into nowadays. They lost all ninja mystery and darkness. Sigh
I went in and got out of there ad fast as i fricking could. Damn it scared the crap of my 10 yo self.
@@julianneroe6436 It's called progress.
@@julianneroe6436 Hopefully Tears of the Kingdom explores the darker side of the Sheikah.
If they implement the unused horror creatures of the Breath of the wild Creating a Champion book into Tears of the Kingdom it's way scarier. Some of them looked like the aliens in the film Arrival.
For Darunia specifically i like to think that after entering the boss room rauru used his powers to pluck darunia away from the fire temple and into the sacred realm. It may not make sense but that's my head canon
We do see something like that happen to Nabouru so it's possible.
Man you should be a logo designer. The amount of effort you put into texts on a thumbnail is incredible
Something Id really like to see is a temple or dungeon w/e that have thorough history haunted in a way like "oh something happened here" but not only just lore but the real architecture appears to have a practical purpose besides "This is a FIRE THEMED maze or vault!"
literally got jump scared at 3:00 from the audio only on the left side almost had a heart attack lmao
Its such a Crazy feeling, when the OoT Title Theme is playing. OoT Was my first Videogame ever and i played it like 1000 Times
me seeing the video of lore of the dungeons - OoT.... clicks instinctively thinking this is another bandit video. then before the page loads the vid i see the logo for Don's channel. and sure enough after the page loads... there it is... MONSTER MAZE.... and i asked myself, surely it was bandit doing these vids and not MM.... and sure enough, not even 1 min in and there is bandit. now... i will sit back and enjoy this as two people in my circle, and whose content i enjoy greatly, give me 20 mins of what is to be one of the best Lore of the Dungeons video combining bandits cadence and voice with don's video editing...
I
CAN
NOT
WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!
ok. ill watch the video now. thanks to both bandit and the monster maze for doing this collab! may you do more in the future!!!!
Our pleasure! Bandit's magnificent voice sure does bring the quality to new heights!
@@MonsterMaze dont be too modest mate. yours and charlie's accent is mesmerizing. also im glad you have grown as a creator and are doing a lot more your vids. the quality you put out is top notch! i remember how timid your voice was when you started, but look at you now! cant wait to see what you put out next!
@@patrickaycock3655 Thank you! Yeah I have a hard time watching back some of my older videos... my voice sounded incredibly forced compared to the more relaxing tone I've been able to strike nowadays. But that means there is growth, so there is that! ^^
Thanks as always for the OG support
One thing about the Fire Temple in OoT is that it is likely the future location of Ganon's Lair in the original LoZ. Both are located in/on Death Mountain. And although its not specifically named in OoT it does seem like Spectacle Rock, where Ganon's Lair is located in the original, is located inside the Death Mountain Crater directly above the Fire Temple
The Fire Temple is inside Spectacle Rock not below it though
A pair of very well made videos about my favourite subject, dungeons! Well done!
3:00 hough that spatial sound scared me out of my seat 'cause i thought someone had snuck into my room while i was distracted. 10/10 unintentional jumpscare, starting off the weekend before halloween just right
Got here through Bandit. Now I'm stayin for life. Thanks for the video!!!! I love Zelda so much!!
Welcome Paige! Zelda for life ^^
I suspect that the great Deku tree also desired Link to purge his body of the curse before he died despite knowing that he was doomed; it's a common theme in eastern and western folklore that dying while cursed leads to being tormented in the afterlife as well.
Currently 4.10 in the morning here in the uk and watched Bandits half now here for your half... and also you now have a new subscriber 😀
Thanks for joining! ^^
Love both of your videos guys, and your interactions
keep the great works
Just finished this game the other day for the first time. It was such a wonderful game in every way!
19:03 "-we might not see something close to it"
* Cuts to Mummy ganon from TOTK *
Mummy ganon is softer than warm ice cream
I’ve always loved Zelda videos that go for Watsonian (I.e. in universe logic, as in the Sherlock Holmes books are presented as real true stories as told by Watson and published in newspapers or from his personal journals and diaries) explanations for game mechanics and level design, and then contrasting them with Doyleist explanations (in reality, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was the author of the fictional Holmes stories). Zelda was always my favourite Nintendo series because of this, Mario was fun but too abstract in level design to get into this way (although 64 and galaxy definitely have some elements like that and why I love them the most, and was disappointed when Galaxy 2 ignored story and was more obstacle course focused in level design). My favourite dungeons have always been the Shadow Temple and Forest Temple in OOT, but I think they perfected it in TP, especially the second run of dungeons. In a way, it’s a proto soulsborne approach to storytelling, but even more difficult to piece together with certainty and more susceptible to reading into things that aren’t there. Love it when dungeons and bosses have that depth beyond strict gameplay, and I’d love to see them tied more into the narrative of Hyrule both in its history as well as the actual story of a game (SS sorta did that, but I think it could be done better).
To this present day this game feels so MAGICAL ✨ to me, I could only imagine how it felt playing it in the 90s.
Yep it felt like a whole different world inside a video game!
I think that Ganondorf's curse compromised Deku tree's immune system, which used to keep the parasites in check
Yep,, anyhow; We know he's the King of Ev!l. Aka: murd£ring $cumbag of Hyrule.
New Monstermaze Video? And together with BanditBames? 🥳🥳🥳 Great Video Don!
Thank you, and good day Lynx!
As a youngster in the 90’s the thing that made me doubt about the sages faith was what Saria said to link after finishing the forest temple. But in these days it’s easy to pull parallels between the faith of the champions in botw and the sages. Think the faiths are the same. In another build of OoT the medaillons would’ve given link powers as well, just like the champions do after finishing the DB’s. So I think these resemblances are on purpose, just a thought
you're looking for the word "fate", not "faith"
Oh yeah! Plus "death" doesn't always mean gone in the Zelda series. Especially for beings who have a special role to play like guardians and sages. Even if they did "die in the flesh", it's possible that they simply ascended into a new state of being. Sages have always been quite ellusive. In Twilight Princess they appear as ethereal beings compared to regular mortals.
MaskedNintendoBandit: YEAH, OCARINA OF TIME!
MonsterMaze: Uhh ok, I personally prefer Majora's Mask.
Me: *Sad and terribly awkward Twilight Princess noises*
Haha TP is amazing! My top 5 Zelda games tends to shift around quite a lot. Usually it depends on which one I played last, or played too much, etc. I don't really have a destinct favourite, since each has their own strengths and weaknesses. But I do think Majora is one of the greatest and most unique sequels ever made ^^
My favorites often shift too. Usually when I play too much of a specific Zelda game and I want to try something different.
Twilight princess will probably always be my favorite, unless Nintendo absolutely nocks it out of the park with Tears of the Kingdom or any other future games. Twilight princess was the first game I played and owned, so it will always have a special place in my heart.
boooy I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL !!! I work with drafting architecture, and your point of view is a great professional analysis!!
Snazzy new intro, really nice work man!
Isn't it strange that 7 years later, princess ruto doesn't really talk about Jabu Jabu's fate.
I mean, it's not like you get many opportunities to talk to her, and when you do meet her again it's not really the right moment for "btw my pet fish died".
Small correction: The boat in the Shadow Temple had a different appearance to it in the N64 version of the game. The reference to boatman of the river Styx wasn't added until the 3DS remake.
But the remake by Grezzo was overseen by Aonuma who even asked for some gameplay flaws to be ironed out, so it IS canon
@@Alexandre.Moonwell Never said it wasn't canon. Just noting that the N64 version was different (likely due to software limitations at the time), and that BEFORE the 3DS remaster, the boatman wasn't there.
It sounded, to me, like they were just talking about the boat itself being a reference, since it is a boat on a river of spirits. They didn't directly reference the figurehead as the nod to the myth. Just my take away, if it helps clarify?
@@ArcaneKnight3 It doesn't clarify because you're assuming that I didn't ALREADY know that. The point is that the boat in the N64 version had a DIFFERENT APPEARANCE. That's it.
@@L337M4573RK That's fair. I misread your initial comment, sorry that it came across that way.
i love (and by love i mean find incredibly sad but interesting) the theory that Volvagia was a guardian spirit like the Great deku tree, but something happened and he went mad
an interesting concept that I just realized is that bongo bongo could have been a victim of an execution method called blood letting, it has all of the necessary points for it to be the case, being hung by the feet, wrists and neck slit, and all the color in the areas that seem to be cut off like the forearms is drained to a sickly color. the head of bongo bongo seems to be slightly intact except for it being split open although it looks like its just the lower head that's intact like the jaw and the esophagus.
My take on the Fire Temple was always that it was built by an ancient group of Hylians- as a lot of its architecture does not resemble that of Gorons. Maybe it was built FOR Volvagia, as a peace treaty of sorts between her and the ancient people. When they left and the Gorons settled, Volvagia was enraged at their eating of the rocks and crude destruction of her home. Makes me think Volvagia isn't even evil at all. Valoo existing in the Wind Waker implies that Volvagia may have been simply defending a nest or something. Always thought that Volvagia was a more tragic antagonist; as she was slain for reasons that were probably out of her control. Twice. Who knows, maybe the Goron's Ruby was hers??? this is why I love OoT speculation lol it never ends
That doesn't explain turning the whole site into one of the most fearsome prisons in gaming though; eating Gorons when possible (rated 'E' right Nintendo?!) and not at least attacking Ganondorf in a battle who clearly went there.
Then there's the whole 'building by Hylians' you suggest in the 1st place - I mean, it's only 100+ degrees down there?!
I was always under the impression that Durunia was throwing the rocks in fire temple fight
I already mentioned this on CaptBurgerson's Dungeon Design video on the Fire Temple, but I'll go ahead and put this theory down here too, which isn't my own I may add, but I can't remember where or who exactly it came from.
The theory goes like this.
The Fire Temple is a place of worship for the Gorons by the time Link gets there but they WEREN'T the ones who built it. Looking at Goron made structures in OoT such as Goron City and Dodongo's Cavern, while certainly impressive they pale in comparison to the intricate and elaborate regal designs found all throughout the Fire Temple. Especially in the murals on the walls and the tiki-esque statues which don't look a whole lot like Gorons or Goron statues compared to the one we see in Darunia's room.
Me personally, I believe that they look more like... the Flare Dancers. Ancient Gorons who entered the temple long ago for rock excavation purposes probably disturbed Volvagia sleeping in the Volcano and probably was at one point a guardian fire spirit much like that of The Great Deku Tree and Lord Jabu-Jabu. We even see what may as well be either a descendant or reincarnation of the dragon with Valoo in the Wind Waker.
Maybe I'm putting way too much thought into this, but the Fire Temple is my favorite OoT dungeon. The original theme is also top notch too.
Agreed, It could very well have been built by other hands. A tribe seperate from them. Maybe ancient Hylians? The architecture is definitly unique and not comparable to modern Hylian architecture. It's a very old structure for sure.
You missed that there are other huge sentient trees like the Maku tree and also how the Fire Temple is seemingly built into the two smokestacks with the heart piece on them we see in the heart of death mountain crater.
The map basically is two volcanic chimneys.
@0:57 Story telling through the environment didn't start with OoT but Links Awakening. Actually many thing from out were intact taken from links awakening. Fishing, trading, and actual story progression, dungeons with different music, ect
the fire temple was mad memorable, i definitely remember the music, temple rooms, and just trying to figure out how to get into certain rooms, I'll never forget it
funny how Terminalmontage led me here and HOW didn't i have heard of your videos before !? amazing stuff
Lord Jabu Jabu also appeared in Oracle of Ages, both as baby and as fully grown thanks to Time Travel, and since this takes place after A Link to the Past which takes place around a century after the Bad Ending of Ocarina of Time, I guess this could be the same Lord Jabu Jabu
But it's in a completly different part of the world, and if the Oracle games' intros are to be taken seriously, in another dimension as well, with that portal thing in the beginning.
@@Abegilr_Dragonrider Eh? Not another dimension as I recall, just a faraway land (Labrynna).
Great video, also thank you so much for liking majora’s mask more than ocarina of time 😊
I remember when this came out. I was about 13. This was and still is a gold standard for me. The story was amazing. I had played the crud out of Link to the Past, this was such a monumental leap. I bawled my eyes out at the end. I was so sad when Saria didn't come back.
My theory on why the Deku tree is how it is on the inside is for the same reason why Link is going there in the first place. The Tree needed an internal structure for people to go inside and fix anything that's broken, since we don't know if Link was the first one to help with an infestation.
video starts at 2:25
Whats really sad about Volvagia is that in the comics he was link's childhood pet/friend
Wait.. really?
@@MonsterMaze
Yup. There's an Ocarina of Time manga where Link buys a caged baby Volvagia for 70 rupees. Volvagia ends up being corrupted by Ganon in the 7 year time skip, and they're forced to fight.
Link cuts his head off, and Volvagia's last words are Link's name as he dies. Really twisted stuff lol
@@hctaz I'll admit, that's kind of inconsistent with the narrative, though. When did this happen? Link didn't even know what money was when he first entered Castle Town, and he never stopped there again after leaving Hyrule Castle, so how could he possibly have obtained Volvagia?
@@Wolffman109I think he got an adequate introduction to the concept of money as he was hopping around collecting rupees and buying a Deku Shield in Kokiri Forest... 😂
@@BULLTRONHERO Not in the manga, which is what we are talking about. Link made the Deku Shield from the Deku Tree's remains, and didn't need money in a forest full of children.
Worth pointing out: the first dungeon in the first Legend of Zelda is ALSO the stump of a tree with eyes and a mouth
The shadow temple is still one of my fave temples, if not THE fave temple, to this day. Just wish it was longer.
That thumbnail though!!
The Spirit Temple is my personal favorite, everything about it, from the music to the vibe 🧘🏻 ☯️🔝
I love this game and the temples in it! Great video!
Can you imagine an Ocarina of Time Remake? I would give anything to experience this story on next generation consoles again.
If anything I wish that an Ocarina of Time/ Majora's Mask combo Game existed where if you have a completed Ocarina of Time Save then you can take things that you would expect Young Link to have during Majora's Mask such as: having Epona's Song and the Song of Storms available as you as you regain the Ocarina of Time, Blessings from the Great Fairies that effect your Health and Magic, the Lens of Truth, Deku Stick and Deku Nut Upgrades, Heart Containers, Bomb Bag Upgrades, Quiver Upgrades. Having Data from OoC would also increase the Max Cap on Hearts, Magic, Deku Sticks and Nuts, Bombs and Quiver consumables and Great Fairy Upgrades.
Maybe the blind rat statues of the shadow temple represented a form of punishment/torture, maybe those uncooperative had their eyes targeted until they spoke, maybe the torturers considered the prisoners as pests hence the statues being rats. Nonetheless it's horrific.
"Who doesn't love fighting a giant dragon?" Too true, and the explosive popularity of games like Skyrim and Dragon's Dogma are a testament to this.
Those elements of horror are something I'd really like to see more of in newer games. Even with the return of gibdos in TotK, Nintendo still seems to be straying away from the whole "undead" angle. Sure, it's still hinted at, but it's like they built in an escape hatch so they can always claim that they're insects and not corpses at all.
Compare that to the N64 games with numerous clear references to restless spirits, tortured souls, and the living dead.
I've played this game so many times and never noticed the rat statues in the Shadow Temple
"Anemanemane" and "Sea amenem-mene" are absolute comedy gold, made my day
3:15 we also know he has a siiiiiiick mustache.
The original fire temple music was so atmospheric-
I am happy I felt the exact same thing in totk when gorondia was found.
Jabu-Jabu also resembles the Catfish Maw from Link’s Awakening. Although the dungeon uses standard dungeon tiles like sand and rocks, in the original Gameboy games the head does not appear to be made of stone. It also resembles the Catfish who gives Link the Earthquake medallion in LTTP, and appears to be the dark world equivalent of King Zora
Jabu Jabu's Belly is one of my all-time favorite dungeons in the franchise, way up there with the Water Temple from the same game.
Yes! 👍 I think 'gamers' especially nowadays judge & want things to be too squeaky 'clean'.
Jabu's Belly is genius simply because it's so unapologetically and purposely gross yet the theming is so so unique & novel _even_ to this day - what dungeon & and an actual full one uses the internals of a Giant magical fish??!
It's concept has more than stood the test of time. It's fun to dip into and simply Epic when the situation dawns on you.
I love the dynamic between bandit and monster maze, like bandit is spongebob to maze's squidward.
My take on Jabu Jabu is a bit more medical than I'd anticipated. But, even with the 3DS graphics you can see the white patches and the "webbing" on his insides. The ulcers, some that are clearly badly infected with the purple around them. And patches of green (gangrene) are everywhere. The monsters inside him are largely parasitic, and in my opinion, the curse isn't just a sickness, it's to suffer in sickness while he lives through his body rotting away. A lot, aside from the Lizalfos, is pointing me to this idea. He's given a waking sickness, and he dies just like the deku tree dies, but I think he has somehow made an egg at the bottom of the pond he is in.
While it's not clear how the guardian spirits reproduce, the deku tree was a single tree and is gendered as Male. But leaves a seed behind that grows into the Great Deku Sapling. I think perhaps, knowing the sickness would kill him, Jabu Jabu dropped an egg to secure the existence of the guardian spirit. Many fish eggs can survive in cold water, because of the (scrapped) nearby ice dungeon, I assume the water is cold. In my opinion, I think it's highly plausible that the Lord dies, while his egg is secure at the bottom of the pond, fed by the water flowing around him, and grows up to become Jabun.
4:55 HA! 😅
I had to go into Jabu-Jabu's Belly over and over again to find all the gold skulltulas.
The Shadow Temple scared me... still does.
11:44 pretty sure Capcom also used the exact same stock chanting track back in the day when it was used in a battle theme in the Jungle map in Monster Hunter but when the map was remade in the latest game Sunbreak the chanting is gone
I'm hoping we'll get to see another truly dark Zelda dungeon in Tears of the Kingdom.
Maze: MM is nice.
The other guy, holding a mask: no.
The other guy holding a mask: *holds a mask*
I never got to play the version of Ocarina with the ramped up graphics. The details are really good!
Catching up with this channel, such a good videos!
In my mind / headcanon the fire temple was a place of worshipping Volvagia himself (itself?) as the deity of death mountain. The style doesn't really look like any kind of Goron construction we've seen, and we know that in Skyward sword they were a more nomadic race. I think the Gorons probably stumbled across something far more ancient in their mining operations at Death Mountain, accidentally uncovering the temple and causing volvagia's first rampage and subsequent defeat at the hands of the ancient Goron hero.
There's some sense to that, especially since before (Eldin) and after (Valoo) there have been at least similarly classed beings from the same species of Volvagia acting as the guardians of the land. It would be interesting to think on why Volvagia turned against the people it was apparently there to protect.
The Muslim community would’ve never been offended by the music. If you look into the reaction. A vast majority of them supported it because of the idea went into it. They knew there’s no ill intent behind it. Someone just thought it was a cool chant and included, and they welcomed it.
I would feel the same (if I was religious). If a chant from my religion showed up in a game I really enjoyed I would see it as a compliment ^^
The og music made that temple hit different.
Lol they weren't worried about offending the Muslims, silly.
i think the bomb that link uses was inspired by the muslims 🙃
I think it was Zeltik who had a great theory about Volvagia, that he's the guardian of the area in the same way the Deku Tree and Jabu Jabu are for their areas. Why he turned on the Gorons and had to be defeated could be that he was corrupted by an evil older than Ganondorf or because the Gorons were doing environmental damage, or some other reason. But it's a cool theory and makes sense given that Valoo is a guardian in Wind Waker as well.
Oh for sure; it's no lost theory that otherwise docile or even allies that are sentient beings have been used in the past by an evil mage to gain 'control' of them to do their bidding or just simply corrupt them.
Ghirahim with Koloktos, possibly Vaati with the Gyrog Pair. Guardians of course; there are so many direct examples.
You say "turned on the Gorons" ... perhaps Gorons were the "bad guys" here? Consider in Skyward Sword we saw the Mogma on Death Mountain, and not the Gorons ... perhaps Volvagia was the guardian spirit of the Mogma, and the temple (built by Mogma, Hylians, both, or neither, doesn't really matter for this theory) was built in the dragon's honor. Now imagine the Gorons (who are shown to be nomadic/homeless in Skyward Sword and Wind Waker) decide that Death Mountain looks like a nice spot, and start to move in, and a conflict ensues with the Mogma. Volvagia, seeing the threat to the Mogma, attacks the Gorons but is defeated, and the Mogma are wiped out. History is then written by the victors, and the Gorons tell tales of their valiant heroes slaying the evil dragon terrorizing their people. Fast forward to Ocarina, and Ganondorf doesn't need to find an evil dragon, he just needs to resurrect the pissed off failed guardian deity who wants its revenge on the Gorons for what they did to its followers ...
I love how all my favorite Zeldabrotubers collaborate, warms my hearts
The Shadow Temple has to be my second favorite dungeon of the series, after Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask. I actually enjoy the darker elements of Zelda.
A theory I've been wanting to see discussed is the lore behind Dead Hand. That mini boss actually creeped me out way more than Bongo Bongo. I've wondered if maybe both creatures were actually created by the Sheikah, maybe through horrendous scientific experiments(we know the Sheikah are scientifically inclined, if the lore from Skyward and BOTW is any indication).
Maybe the creators of the Shadow Temple created Deadhand as a way to brutally torture enemies of Hyrule. I mean, if you get locked into a room with disembodied arms and a blob-like creature with a humanistic head thay slowly devours you, you'd probably confess to just about anything.
Also, the river boat is interesting for a couple of reasons. If you look closely, the "River" is not water, but is made to look like ghosts(at leasy in the 3D remake). It makes me think of some depictions of the underworld in mythology. When the boat gets to the end of the river, Navi warns you the boat is sinking, and the boat actually falls down into an abyss, though it doesn't sink as if it's in water. This makes me think that the boat is a method of transporting people to the afterlife, not merely a watercraft. In fact it seems to run along a rail of sorts, not flowing with the current of water
Everyone loves the darker aspects of Zelda.
When my youngest brother played OoT for the first time (with a hefty amount of help from me) he got really scared by Deadhand, and I had to take over that fight.
Thanks for sharing the lore! It's always nice to watch these kind of videos.
Also, I agree that Majora's Mask is better than Ocarina of Time.
I always assumed the temples inside of the guardians were not strictly physical spaces. The scale just doesn't work, look at the size of Link in comparison to the Deku tree or the giant fish. There are so many rooms in each dungeon that accommodate a Link-sized individual, way more than could physically fit in either guardian. It always made much more sense to me that they were some sort of extra-dimensional spaces, or magical realms, conjured by the guardian.
I mean, the guardians are powerful magical beings, and the space inside them could not possibly fit a whole dungeon, and there are lots of tales in fiction where you walk through a threshold and 'magic' makes a space seem impossibly big. It would also explain why there are a bunch of man-made things inside. Those things aren't actually physical objects that are man-made, they are part of the magic that has been conjured to make the space to the guardian's current interest/specifications. If someone else entered the space, at a different time, and the guardian needed a different setup, they could change it at will.
It just makes sense to me.
8:26 musician here - unless there’s something I’m not hearing, there’s nothing irregular or off beat here. I think you’re hearing ghost notes or the triplet from the percussionist and thinking that’s meant to be a heartbeat? To me, the only thing I can hear is the percussionist playing a tasteful, tribal - esque beat ❤ However, I can definitely see how the particular beat pattern that he is playing might have been chosen specifically to imitate a heart that beats irregularly, symbolized by the syncopation being the way it is. The “long note, triplet, short note, repeat” pattern could absolutely signify that. Maybe i can’t hear it well enough cause the clip is short? I dunno! I could be wrong! But, even if you’re like me and you can’t hear a heartbeat, you can physically see the walls inside of Jabu Jabu “breathing” (because it’s the inside of his organs) and they definitely increase and decrease in speed from calm rooms to fighting/boss rooms if I recall correctly! It’s been a long time since I played OOT but I seem to remember that being a thing! So even if it wasn’t put into the song intentionally to symbolize Jabu’s condition, we can definitely say that, given the context, that’s what it symbolizes now! :D
I think you are right. Irregular is the wrong wording. I added that line last-minute without developing it first ^^.
I do suspect they placed the second "thump" of the heartbeat slightly behind the lower precussion to make it sound a bit... off. It does follow the rythmm consitantly, so again... not irregular, but I guess I would say that it sounds a bit unconventional. Which is great btw! They could've easily gone with an easy heartbeat type of rythmm, but instead they were more creative with it and went beyond that ^^
@@MonsterMaze well hey, thanks for responding first of all - love both you and Bandit, very good video to collaborate on :) also, I could totally be wrong about the heartbeat thing; I could just not be able to easily identify/hear/pick out exactly what you’re referring to in the video. Like I said in my comment, I could be totally wrong and they DID actually put a heartbeat sound into the song. Sometimes musicians overthink / over analyze stuff too 😅 but i don’t think whether or not there is an intentionally placed heartbeat in the track affects your points in any significant way. It’s still clear regardless of the heartbeat that both the Deku Tree and Jabu Jabu are intended to be “sick” / “cursed”, there’s no arguing that ❤️🥰 again thanks for responding, have a great day!!
Nurse here! The sound isn't actually meant to mimic a heartbeat! It's actually meant to mimic bowel sounds - when you listen to someone's stomach through a stethoscope, it emits a similar pattern of noise in a similar pitch.
The chanting creeped me out as a Kid. I remember playing the GameCube version later on and being confused I was like “this isn’t that creepy”.
Love these so much. It's too bad about the origional Fire Temple music - the origional track was really cool.
Here's something I don't get: why doesn't Nintendo, with all their resources in sound design, just re-compose the Fire Temple theme, this time forgoing the public domain Islamic prayers in favor of their own recorded chants that aren't part of any translatable language? Of course, the current Fire Temple theme is just a makeshift replacement they got by replacing the chants with the synthetic vocals that were already being used for the Shadow Temple theme, but you'd think they could've extended more of an effort to the 3DS remake at least (given how the game was completely remade in pretty much every other area).
Gotta go with you on this one MM-Majora’s Mask is objectively the best Zelda game 😉 and not just because your initials are the same!
Great collab, love you guys and your work!