An Action-RPG in which Creatures Adapt and Evolve: "Where Beasts Were Born" DevLog 3
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2023
- Third DevLog, explaining how I plan to add the evolution loop into the game.
Try out the generator! where-beasts-were-born.com/
Steam Page: store.steampowered.com/app/25...
Support on Patreon: / where_beasts_were_born
Discord: / discord
Cool evolution simulation games:
Adapt: store.steampowered.com/app/88...
The Bibites: thebibites.itch.io/the-bibites
The Sapling: store.steampowered.com/app/99...
Planetary Life: store.steampowered.com/app/24...
Evolution image by vectorpouch on Freepik: www.freepik.com/free-vector/h... 
Игры
Enemies that respond to your play style and continuously challenge you is what everyone wants from a video game. You could use this technology in so many genres, looking forward to what you're able to make with it.
Absolutely! I wonder if creatures that evolve based off the entire playerbase rather than just one player will be harder or easier to fight. If they evolve to counter specifically one players strategy, that player will have to adapt. If they evolve to deal with an entire playerbase of strategies.. can they be that smart? or would they become a 'jack of all trades' then?
Perhaps have both implementations in the final game? Have certain evolution stragegies per cave you enter.
@@DaveRune
You would have meta's and niche's. Would be a lot of fun, I'd love to see it in MMO's in a variety of manners from world mobs to raid bosses.
Really? Everyone wants this?
😰 Guess I should plan on putting something like this in the engine itself...
@@rmt3589 Everyone on the video for an evolution game wants evolution in their games. Sample bias is a thing
@@gearandalthefirst7027 True. Forgot about that, ngl.
A pet companion that you can feed certain enemies to guide its evolution the way you want could be pretty cool
maybe different categories even, like one's on behaviour while the other gains and uses traits ( just spit balling )
A little like Kirby?
i would be great in farm animals, like "cows" so you make the best breed. if the player eat creatures and has a way to carry them this beheavor can be created by the players without having to code it directly
Maybe if he develops a class based around that. Otherwise it may be too strong.
@@ShankarSivarajan no, more like domestication
you know it's a good day when a devlog of this game gets released
This comment convinced me to subscribe.
@@TiananmenSquare89Well now you do, welcome
Yo! Following and showing to my buddies
@@RepentandbelieveinJesusChrist5nah
I still love how the monsters are not even trying to be realistic. Give the game such a cool style.
This game concept is honestly fascinating, there's something incredibly haunting about seeing such creepy creatures evolving in response to the environment and player! It's an entirely separate system to your procedural creature creator, but I would love to see more of the behavioural evolution and possibly even learning through neural network representation and reinforcement learning (as demonstrated in the creatures evolution video by davidrandallmiller)
That's the plan!
In fact, behaviour adaptation/learning over time is one of the main goals I have for this project. But yes, it'll be a different system, and encoding the current (very dynamic and 3D) surrounding of the creature into something the brain can work with is not trivial. But I have some ideas, and hope to get started on this soon!
@@Germanunkol when I read the title of this game I thought you were also a creature that can just roam the world and evolves but I now realize that’s not the case
Bro being modest about his evolution program while not only that alone is super impressive, also the creatures AI looks amazing, the way they move and how they use their limbs its super impressive.
You are incredibly talented mate, and your game prototype looks like it actually has lot of future as a game rather than just a funny interesting project. RPGs always work and if you keep true to the evolutions your game could be a diamond amongst the sea of rpg; very similar to rain world, both with a incredibly innovative enviroment.
I love this concept and I have a couple ideas to complete the game loop for the single client solution
1. Instead of turrets what if you're creating tribe members that fight for you
2. In order to upgrade your tribe and subsequently your tribe mates you'd need to gather some basic point resource from hunting the creatures (This encourages combat)
3. Instead of killing all enemies to finish the round you and your tribe have to survive as many days as possible with a day and night cycle (To avoid the feeling of grinding)
4. In the daytime you could have defensive "herbivores" who are negatively reinforced for not surviving and compete for plants with the player character
in the nighttime you could have aggressive "predators" at night that are negatively reinforced when other creatures survive the night and positively reinforced for how many tribe mates and herbivores they kill. (This would lead to different styles of enemies instead of one optimal one)
Good work so far can't wait to see more in the future
The time of creature generation between each round could be used by players to change/update specs and status, get gear and have a time to prepare for the next "Raid" the time of creature generation could even be display on the top as the time until the next raid
Yeah, make it part of the gameplay, push the player to make their choices before time runs out.
@RepentandbelieveinJesusChrist5Oh fools of the for the endless nine, ignorance buried with tenfolds of soil. We do not believe in such past time believes, we praise only reviewbruh. The report of the week, and unchanged form. Now do you feel like a arse or do we need another review-chant?
What’s interesting about a game with evolving enemies like this is that by adding more mechanical depth to the characters, you change how the player can play, which influences how the creatures can evolve, in turn, adding more mechanical depth. So character design and balance will be integral to the game.
Maybe rather then a class system allow the player to select skills they wish to use or have a random option for the ambitious. That way characters wouldn't always be the same either.
This is the first time I've seen an indie game with an idea that is out there, but I actually think is amazing. Honestly, I'm waiting in anticipation to see the final product, however long it will take.
"Rujik the Comatose" game is the exact same idea but its really pretty 2D sprites.
It has a lot of similarities, yes. But if I understand his plans correctly, his game will be more pokemon-like. Also, he merges the bodies directly and doesn't seem to have the underlying DNA structure.
But definitely a very cool project! :)
@@ironmaiden12369 I'm pretty sure those aren't sprites, but 3d models and shader that makes them look like pixelart
initial gut feeling is that this is gonna be huge in the future
Its gonna go the Rain Wirld royute. Pretty niche in its first few years and then suddenly explode in popularity.
@@gusfring96 never heard of that game.
@@haven6455try it out its a great game were it feels like you arent the central point of the game.
It’s called “rain world” he was just having a stroke
I'm not game dev but I had a similar idea though the way it is different but I'm soooo glad someone has an idea like this, I wish you immense fortune on this project!
ok this look genuinly amazing, it's rare to see so much potential in an idea.
biomes, pack hunting and group behavior, like and dislike, with the idea of a "fast evolving" creature there are so many thing that could be applied to the playable character too like introducing weapon based on dead creature body parts and so on.
PLEASE POST MORE OFTEN this game has the biggest potential I have seen out of hundreds of devlogs from different creators!!!
It would be cool if you added some type of foliage that could act as a hide/stealth mechanic. Monsters could still find you but they would have to search. Think of a bunny running away from a dog into tall grass.
I like this. It fits into my thoughts about having a living environment for the player as well. (Early No Man's Sky being the opposite.)
Also, it allows for another vector of evolution through the environment.
I really like how the creatures evolved. A giant super tanky, slow but high damaging creature and the other became a small, fast and hard to hit and annoying creature
Awesome to get a new devlog so soon!
Love this idea! For the creature generation times, I can also imagine a survival mode using a day/night cycle à la Kingdom, or tower defence.
An evolving menace that comes at night, learning based on how you survived the night before would be a harrowing experience! It would also provide the system and the player(s) time to generate, organize, repair, and explore.
Absolutely fascinated by your process!
This is one of my favorite projects to follow! It is such a great idea. I hope you make the game as good as it deserves to be!
Sincerely lately the only devvlog I'm interested in
One of favorite things is games that continue to make you think out of the box and change your play style to overcome new enemies. This is a great take on that idea and would be amazing to see fully fleshed out
I like the "Single client solution" the most because the player can see how the creatures react to his choices and it forces the player to choose some new tactics to kill new enemies
only been a viewer for like 30 minutes and I'm already completely invested, can't wait for the next devlog, game is looking awesome!
Very cool to see some actual gameplay, even if it is a prototype! It looks a lot more high-paced than I expected, but I think that's a good thing :D
Finally. Someone woke up and decided he has a working imagination which can actually develop interesting games. About time.
This game looks sooooo promising! I think it could be very cool to have lots of ways to interact with the creatures and depending on their evolution, some of them don't work (like the light spell not working on creature with the light resistance trait). I wish listed it on steam immediately.
I'll follow this closely!
This seriously has potential.
When this game is released it's gonna be a banger
This is turning out really interesting! I especially like the idea of building traps and managing the creature movement with the bright light.
Perhaps the creatures could also have certain likes and hates, so some fear the light and some blind creatures don't mind at all. Senses could play a lot into this, managing e.g. player visibility and noise.
Also baits? Bring a pile of meat or mushrooms and wait for the creatures to come to feast.
Maybe most creatures are more standard, but then you'd get these more challenging "hunts".
I really liked your idea, I've mentioned it in the idea I've also posted here. maybe check it out and give your opinion on it?
I love the games art design, I hope it wont change much. It feels like a stop motion film, great job.
This is absolutely amazing. I've always thought it was incredibly interesting to have a game where the player had an effect on the world around them. It's definitely very hard to implicate into games, but the thought of having every game be different than the last is what I think makes it fun. I'm very excited to see where this game goes.
This looks really cool! Wishlisted and can't wait to see what you got planned next
This game is so interesting! I'm excited to see how it evolves...
This concept is absolute gold! And it seams like you can pull it off, can't wait
We all know what time it is.
Time to create a different evolution for boss monster (which can be lore for the "king" of monsters or "mother" and perhaps even have the first evolution. The boss is huge and randomly generated each run which makes games unique and the game replayable!
I enjoy watching these dev-logs and i hope this game will come out soon!❤
A great update 😀
So cool that you could already see two different species coexisting with your current play style.
bro ngl this looks very fun to play, a system that "learns" with the actions of each player and adapts to his play style is incredible, sounds like a never ending challenge for real.
usually what sticks me to a game is the variety of weapons available, would be cool if that was the case of WBWB, a game with THIS kind of variety of monsters and gameplay, with a great variety of weapons would be a game i would play for thousands of hours no cap.
Good job with the game! very excited to try it out
I love this so much, I've been thinking of making a similar game but kept running into the wall of "what if the game made a perfect enemy?"
Depending on how flexible you can make the performance load of creature generation, it might be possible to speculatively pre-generate new creatures during a run.
Also, depending on the topology (esp. smoothness) of the possible genomes, it might be possible to accelerate evolution using gradient estimation and/or a small neural network that can estimate the expected fitness of a given genome against a given player.
ive watched a lot of evolution simulator type videos on youtube, and these creatures are some of the best looking ones ive seen.
This concept is super interesting, I can imagine it translating well to many different genres! Best of luck to you man, can't wait to see where you go with this :)
It’s easy to make suggestions when your not the one making the game, but here are some ideas I had.
Recording player actions to generate and score multiple generations at once against, but this would only work with something like a tower defense where player actions are less influenced by specific situations and monsters, and maybe not even then.
Since creature generation time seems to be getting in the way of some of your ideas working on that bottleneck might be important. But having a random person on the internet tell you “make this part faster” doesn’t help much.
My terrible ideas aside this is shaping up to be very cool!
Maybe there can be some interesting down time to give the game some time like...monster part selling or.......npc talking....or...... weapon tuning.
Dancing...music making...fis....no ..not that one.
Firework watching ,clothes making....
Painting like in armored core six,
Magic tuning...😡 100 push up, 100situp, and a ten kilometer run! Do each and every time you loose or succeed at killing every monster!
Make like biomes where monsters also have to adapt to diferent things, like a cold wheter taht makes monster have to go for food and some kind of heat fount
This seems to have a great start! Excited to see where it goes!
This test-play and demonstration is very encouraging and interesting! Well done.
You know what would be such a cool feature? The ability to name the various creatures you discover throughout your own journey
I love the idea of a special game mode where each day there is a new generation of beasts for players to attempt, but I see this as more of a daily challenge than main gameplay
Yeah, I agree!
I think this would work well as a separate game mode. I hadn't thought of it as a "daily challenge" so far - that's a new perspective that I like, might adapt that, thanks!
This is pretty exciting. I wanted to pursue this idea a while back but never figured out how to do the animation. its cool to see someone else has!
Give this man a whole staff and studio, and at least half a million of budget! I'd like to see this shine in the future.
I hope Curious Archive talks about this, or mentions it, in a future video. This is right up his alley.
I actually kinda want to see something similar in Deep Rock Galactic's Deep Dives. Not so much rapid evolution, but different tactics based on how the dwarves dealt with the previous cave.
Would love a mention from Curious Archive of course - feel free to tell them about me :D
Might be too early at this point though - maybe when there's a demo?
you HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION WITH RPG AND EVOLUTION HOLY CROW
I love the claymation/stop motion look/vibe this game has. :)
This is some seriously cool stuff, I just found your channel and already can’t wait for your next upload. I was already addicted to games like the sapling and bibites but yours is different and in a very good way. I think I would definitely chose the single client version
Great stuff, it already looks fun 😊although it's good that multiple strategies are naturally evolving, maybe you could make some body parts that encourage categories of monsters like claws for digging, wings for flight or camouflage. Another idea I had would be a monster that can call for others, attracting nearby ones, and you would have to try to damage the organ to stop the noise. That would probably have to be nerfed 😅
Cool ideas! I have already planned to add creature communication - but I don't want to hard-code it, I want the creatures to be able to make noises and react to them in a dynamic ("learned") way. So they could call for help, but they could also use it to tell others to run away or go heal or attack the healer.
It's actually one of the systems I want to tackle soon-ish... :)
@@Germanunkol It could also be cool to possibly have creatures try to "trick" the player with sound, for example if a creature usually makes a distress sound when on low health it could "learn" to make that sound when the player is low health (and more likely to run to a health mushroom) to keep the player fighting it with the futile hope that they can quickly kill it. Or if you ever add noises to items in the map (like the mushrooms), maybe the creatures could learn to mimic those noises to try and ambush the player when they come to investigate the sound. Don't know how complicated any of that would be to implement though. but on another note, this looks amazing and I always look forward to new updates!
@@Germanunkol
So are you going to make it t like roug legacy. Every time you die you get a new character? Would that be frustrating in this type of game...they evolve you never know if you have the right man for the job because you never played them.
No, there'll probably be some sort of respawn system. Not sure of the details yet, but I don't think I'll use permadeath, or maybe have it optional.
Man with awesome logic like this I would love to see a Fantasy MMO RPG where all NPC creatures can adapt behaviorally to the actions of players. Perhaps leading to one of them becoming a world boss down the line where a quest could be made to attempt to slay such a legend.
I like the 3rd idea the best. It will make evolution go throughout the time the game is live. Players can develop a meta and so do the enemies.
You should include a size and ecosystem stat where levels can support a certain amount of energy (difficulty.) Some levels might have large, elite units and others might have hordes.
It's a good way to direct evolution. Enemies will outgrow the player without player progression, energy will improve pacing and difficulty.
thats a good idea, maybe check the one I've posted here? it certainly would be a good integration to yours
The random mutation idea is a good way to force players into a new way of playing. They wont be able to play the same safe stategy if there suddenly is something brand new to face. If it benefits the monsters quite a lot, and affect the evolution big time, then it will demand a whole new play style for the rest of the campaign.
Really cool game, will be watching the progress with great enthusiasm!
Love to see it finally in action for a game view, keep up the amazing stuff!
These are some very cool systems. I can't wait to give this game a shot. It also seems like it could naturally spinoff into an evo sim style sequel
This profoundly interesting I’ve rarely felt awe when looking at something 5:05 and it’s this gross monster your amazing work gave me a flash of all the eldritch horrors I’ve enjoyed and I will be buying your game I hope you keep the medieval theme and I think a rogue like RPG system with you customizing your characters based of the creatures would make every run feel like a new journey filled with horrors for and underground kingdom
Huge fan of evolutionary gaming. Thanks for sharing this epic update! 😁
honestly, a evolution simulator is freakin cool
the rate of their adaptation is both frightening and enthralling. It looks like this game could sit in a perfect little niche blend of Devil Daggers, Spore-likes, and... idk, rogue-likes maybe. I was so impressed how you combod player abilities into one another to counter the beasts. Even if the beasts are the focus, I look forward to seeing other character concepts too
I'm still unsure about the character abilities (and the magic system) - so this feedback was great to hear! Very glad to see I'm on the right track, thank you! :)
@@Germanunkolsomething you're probably already considering or thinking about is convergent evolution. There are very recognizable archetypes of animals, even if the finer details are always changing.
For example: Marsupial versions of dogs and cats. Mammals trying to become fish as dolphins. Bats learning to fly like birds.
I think one of the risks with this game is that "technically" all the monsters are totally open ended and you never know what you will get. However "practically" we can almost guarantee that archetypes will grow out of the woodwork. Once players start cataloguing these archetypes, the "mystique of being open ended" might die a little.
It's for this reason I think you shouldn't be afraid to just throw tons of complexity into "the space of possibilities". Evolution can sort out the finer details on the beasts. Players can sort out the finer details on the RPG side. As the developer, your biggest concern will be providing enough variety, not optimization or balancing. So when it comes to magic systems or tools or whatever, if it is on the simpler/easier side to add, err on the side of adding it instead of leaving it.
This is one of the coolest ideas I've seen* thank you
Dude casually drops the best game of 2023 and thought we wouldn't notice
Fantastic project, I love when people add some fresh air to the gaming, unlike A+++ gaming which consists of reheating the same old cutlets without really adding anything innovative. Can't wait for you to release the game on steam so I can buy it!
Ahhh, i was thinking about this the othee day, glad to see youre still working on it
It may be possible to address three issues at once. Firstly you're relying upon a mesh morphing approach to change their appearence but it may be better to actually use a kitbashed approach with genes adding or removing parts as they pass certain thresholds and then simply having those individual parts grow or shrink. Along with this approach you could have the type of locomotion reflect how fast they are. Critters with no legs are slow, those with legs are average and the fastest hover using wings. This helps to telegraph traits to the player much earlier to set expectation. Other distinct phyiscal charactertistics could also be used for other stats too.
Stumbled upon your channel, and oh my goodness I'm so glad I did! This honestly looks so interesting
Holymoly this looks interesting. Jade Cocoon, Spore, Niche a genetic survival game, Rain World and Phoenix Point have done similar stuff with dna, genes, biomes (&creature behavior even during off screen) and evolution but this is like next level. Insta sub and will be looking closely at this project.
Y'know, I'd be hyped to see a good evolution simulator for a Spore-like game
Crowdsource/distribute the processing to aid the evolutionary arms race
i love the central server option! Imagine finally beating something, that stumped most other players. The Beasts will evolve with the players.
that's my dream game, and I'm happy someone great is doing it
I like to support natural selection based video games and have bought many of them.
There are a few common problems games like these can run into.
1. If your fitness function is: how much damage the creature deals to the player. This will definitely work and the creatures will become very strong very fast, but that is not always fun for the player. I think it's good to do a fitness function that's also takes into account the fun the player is having.
2. If all creatures use a single fitness function then it's common that one species will dominate leading to the player only fighting a single creature type. This can be quite boring for the player because the game leads variety. Using a server to download creatures would solve this problem.
I'm very excited to see where this project goes and will be watching!
Totally agree with your points. I currently plan on not having the target function fixed, so users could adopt it before playing... maybe with a few sensible defaults to choose from. That should keep things entertaining for a while!
Really like the idea, maybe to guarantee some interesting encounters there could be archetypes creatures strive towards evoluting to : Fleeing, hit & run, tanky. Traps that could immobilise foes for a limited time could allow the limb damaging aspect and for turrets to at least get some shots out
Looking forward to see this game evolve over time (get it)
the fitness parameters can change from time to time, this can stimulate the monsters to keep changing as the game progresses
a plus: different species have different parameters also, this can help creatures staying different
Great job! You should add a way for a player to tame a creature! Maybe with a timid behavior that can be breed into the creatures. Making it more likely to retreat/not fight.
I can't wait for more updates man keep these up please!
Would be cool to have central server and make seasons. So that each season everyone is playing against a new evolution chain. My only worry is about convergent evolution, where the best enemy mutations end up being the same. You could avoid this by adding some more environmental effects to the fitness. For example maybe acid pools, the creatures could evolve to navigate around them, jump over them, or gain acid resistance. Then by changing the density of the pools in the map you’d end up with different preferences in each biome.
I'm so glad this video released! I'm actually loving this series, and it's quite different to other evolution games. Keep up the good work man! I've already wishlisted it on steam, by the way ;)
Awesome! I think this system fits so well to roguelites/procedural genres. Specially the "casual" ones.
Imagine a roguelite game where your goal is to cross a giant cave or reach it's deepest levels. Each run could be divided in some levels, like "floors" of the cave. When you start a level, the creatures are randomly created in a "weak version". You combat them through the level and collect resources. When you finish each level, the stats of the battle are used to compute and generate the new versions of the creatures, and also generate new ones. In the next level, the stronger versions of the same creatures spawns along with new creatures. And this loop repeat on and on until the final level. There could also be some boss fight or something similar.
This ideia could actually be used not only between different levels of the same run, but also across different runs. Data could also be shared to a server to create a database of DNA vs Difficulty. The levels could be procedurally generated once, but saved to revist on a new run, but having new creatures or stronger versions of the previous ones.
Man, there are so many ways to use this incredible system! Congrats.
100% downloading the game when full release comes!
Ive got a ton of ideas!
Pretty much in summary I think yo should:
Make the game slightly more survival focused, adding items that you can hold in your hands (like rainworld) don't add an inventory, but then you can pick up things like monster meat, and eat it, or use it as bait. Also small rocks that you could throw to get there attention, or if you pile up some sticks and rocks it might make a trap, maybe you could also add the abbility to drop certain items and create a barricade.
For other classes you could add a spear carrier, who can pull themselves toward enemies with a rope on there spear, lasoo and immobilise enemies
Also I still think you should add armour plating and organs.
For co-evolution and player gameplay interactions, it could be cool to allow certain creatures to evolve bioluminescence, signifying that the player would get some sort of reward for defeating that monster. This would allow certain monsters to evolve in such a way to naturally draw attention away from other creatures, and perhaps become fast, mostly fleeing variants, that give rewards for being sought out. Love the work you're doing, and can't wait to see more!
That idea is just insane
This concept looks amazing! I'm really looking forward to see how this project evolves! 😄
love your devlogs, keep it up
I'm personally really fond of the "single client" solution for evolution, I think the direct evolution is really nice and valuable.
I'll likely keep this game mode, at least as an option!
It would be so cool in a MMO. The meta changes everyday. Every day the dungeon grows.
this us my first exoerince to this game and it gives me the chills. also nice work.
Glad to see your still working on it
Looking great! Huge development every half a year!
You might remove a couple of cons if you approach it from a single player mode perspective.
Say, a player - Influencing the NPCs and their fellow adventurers in the area. And each AI adventurer has their own playstyle. Helping kill the creatures and thereby speeding up creature evolution.
That's just one example. Just a thought, hoping to give you some ideas.
Perhaps you could have multiple of the same species alive but use the second method. You could collect data half way through and start generating a new species before they move on.
How cool would it be if you can grab monster eggs and breed your own monster ....for a monster tamer class or something... that's part support part de-Buffer.
That looks goddamn amazing. Also as a osrs fan the retro artstyle is really appealing to my, love it!
dude ur doing amazing, keep up the great work
I haven’t been so excited for a game since Elden Ring
The prototype already looks very fun
The breeding based on fitness score is cool, but just their behavior in general and the way the body affects the score is what I believe a lot of fun will be coming from, even if you don't realize that a player has affected the evolution. That's why I personally find the third option more appealing. If there is a system logging all the scores and evolution, it would be very cool if there is a history players can look at.
I wish I could support you more, but I can't afford much as a student myself. I originally only wanted to follow some devlogs, to be inspired and motivated for my own projects but you easily got me hooked and hyped for the game. I hope the promotion goes well for you!
I kind of want to add this kind of evolution mechanic for the dungeon adventures in my game,I think that would be terrifying if the boss was being changed and adapted to your play style throughout the dungeon and you have to fight what the game would think is your hardest match
Single Client would probably be the most fun, since it would be a tailored experience for each player, but a bit of Central server could fit well. It would be interesting to have a central database ,like Spore, that the game "suggests" a few creatures from the central to the game, those creatures would be some high scores from other players game. That way you can have an unique tailored experience but also adding a bigger variation pool to the game.
Just found your channel; love the unique idea