STRONG Female Warrior Revealed in New Lord of the Rings Movie
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Our first glimpse of the War of the Rohirrim anime film (released in December 2024) shows us the hero, Hera... a character Tolkien never named, with a role Tolkien certainly never intended.
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Some of you seem confused. The point I'm making with Shieldmaidens is that OTHER THAN EOWYN, there is no mention of any group of shieldmaidens--or ANY OTHER PERSON that's a shieldmaiden--in Middle-earth.
As per the usual in today's time, they're making up "modern audience" things in Tolkien's already defined story.
I believe the shield maidens were thus called because the only way one could procreate with them was to cover their face with a shield. Occasionally one or a few together would migrate to the Druadan forest since Dru men and women lived separately from each other during their daily lives, only coming together once a year for ritualistic purposes.
@@garicb9271 Do you know which book that's in? Couldn't find it in any of the Histories books available on Kindle, Letters, or the Reader's guide.
There's also no particular reason to believe that Eowyn coined the term. So we can infer that there was likely some kind of shieldmaiden tradition among the Rohirrim--if only rarely seen.
@@otaku-sempai2197 agreed. It’s clear that she didn’t have to explain herself when she used the term
Quote from Phillipa Boyens:
“We know Helm has a daughter, and we know that she was central to the conflict that happened. But myself, and especially screenwriter Phoebe Gittins, were drawn to her. We could feel the weight of being that unnamed daughter, which immediately piqued our interest: Who was she? How did she live?”
The arrogance of this quote is breathtaking. The state of mind on display here is literally the antithesis of the one Peter Jackson had when making LOTR. They’ve basically stated here that Hera is a self insert for the writers.
Which just shows how far Phillipa has gone from the days of working with Jackson.. Sad really
Did we really need the quote though? That's all they can do is "self insert."
I get your point though. It adds weight to it and brings life to the realization as opposed to "That's just, like, your opinion man!"
They just can't help themselves, can they.
Took the words out of my mouth. No they really can't. They ruin everything!
I just watched the trailer with my 13 year old daughter. Afterwards, she rolled her eyes and said "great...more 'girl power'" Even teens are sick of these sad attempts at entertainment.
I'm female and I do like Anime, Miyazake style. But...
I have enough of "strong female characters" fighting in Tolkiens world.
Tolkiens world did not have this characters on every corner. Eowyns story is unique. If Hera did any of this her deeds would be legendary in the 3rd age.
It takes away from Eowyn.
SAD
I suspect Hera not being legendary is part of the story - The patriarchy suppressed it. Sadly I am not kidding. lol.
@@kahinaloren Considering Rohan is not known for its written sources and so the only other ways this strong girlboss' story could have been disseminated is through bards who apparently never sing songs of this mighty shiledmaiden, as per Éowyn 's own admission, one has to wonder where Éowyn heard the story from to begin with. Did Héra's ghost whisper it in her ear?
Even Eowyn going to war is meant to be a bad thing.
Tolkien had strong women...and they were very feminine.
NOT something current politics would care.
you're so different!!
"Not only would it feature Hèra as the main protagonist, but according to Slashfilm there is a scene that “shows the politics at play in Edoras, with a lord of Rohan wanting to erase the history of a group of female warriors and banner women to the king, a prelude of things to come.”"
No thanks.
"The film’s producer Philippa Boyens defended the decision to have the film feature Hèra as the main protagonist saying, “Everyone else dies! And before you start complaining, this is already in the text, and also the story takes place centuries before the movies.”
Did she not read "The Children of Húrin"? The protagonists die there too... They are still the protagonists...
Also, what does the story takes place centuries before the movies has got to do with it? such rubbish...
This is how you know they are already lying through their teeth. Boyens could have been remembered as the prime example of "how to do a faithful adaptation", but no, she just HAD to join the cult...
And these are the things we KNEW about a year ago. It' was bloody obvious where this was going.
Although the first clue should have been that it was being made.
But people nowadays are so weak that they still can't see the pr0paganda industry for what it is.
I knew 1 year ago already that people would fall for this. And I knew that they justification for it would be that ROP put the bar low and somehow, that redeems something that's a bit less HORRID.
People will never learn, and then they will ask for the 9999999999999999999999999999999999th time "why do they keep feeding us this stuff?"
I mean really this is a masterclass of grasping at straws to invent a girlboss.
As far as the accuracy of the "shield-maiden" term, it IS a term used when describing Eowyn, but nowhere else that I recall. Shield-maidens, if we examine the Anglo-Saxon culture that Rohan is based upon, would have been women who were trained with swords, shields, and other weapons, to defend their homes in cases where the male armies were defeated and dead, and the enemy came to the literal doorstep of the citizens of Rohan. They were NOT career soldiers, there were no women in the King's Riders or army. They were the last line of defense who would stand and protect the home, the children, etc, if the men of their homeland were slain and their villages were invaded. They were, I'm sure, proud, strong, fearless women. But they did not go around carrying swords or fencing on a regular basis, they were wives and mothers.
Thanks for the details!
Shield-maiden is a literal translation, or calque, of Old Norse "skjaldmær". It does not exist in the scanty remains of Old English literature (as far as I know), but it is abundantly attested in Norse. Old Norse and Old English are different if related traditions. (I live near the river Lea, once the boundary of the Danelaw, I should know). Anyway Tolkien is plainly drawing on the Norse tradition of the shieldmaidens, which has some foundation in archaeology. And (a little) in Tacitus's Germania and his account of Boudica's rebellion
@@pwmiles56 When you say foundation do you by chance refer to the fact that there have been female skeletons found buried with grave goods in the form of weaponry?
@@BrokenFireMaiden I do indeed. At Birka in Sweden and also on Bryher in the isles of Scilly.
@@pwmiles56 I will look those up. But just as a general sort of question; what stops these grave goods from being mere status symbols? I do not have the sources on me so I apologise for it, but I have previously read of female skeletons found with knives and arrowheads (presumably remnants of actual arrows), but whose mortal remains showed no sign of violence one might associate with battlefield activities. My point with this is, how do we know it's not merely a matter of asserting an individual's important status or even something to do with the transfer of status or even to do with beliefs regarding the afterlife?
In Return of the King, Eowyn called herself a shield maiden. The first time was when talking to Aragorn before he left for the Paths of the Dead.
‘But am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse?"
Three times are in the Return of the King when she was talking to Faramir.
'I am a shieldmaiden and my hand is ungentle.'
'I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying.'
‘‘There goes a lord who tamed a wild shieldmaiden of the North!"
That being said, the idea that there is an unknown group of warrior women wandering about Rohan is rather fanciful.
Agree, the concept is not unknown. It may work if carefully presented and written.
Hera is an ancient Greek name. How does that fit into Tolkien's secondary world of Middle Earth? What is wrong with all these writers? Can't they for once respect an author's vision?! Obviously she is blatantly non canon. Hollywood ruins every IP they get their hands on.
Phillipa Boyens has said its not the Greek Hera, but Germanic Herá.
Is it really Germanic? Because I can’t find it anywhere
@@miriel7662 Yeah I have never heard of Hera being a Germanic name as well. I know it's a name from Greek Mythology. Hera was a goddess on Mt. Olympus.
The leader, shorter than the others by a head, looked at them suspiciously through twin monocles and brandished a battlemop. It was then that the company realized that the leader was a woman, a woman whose ample breastplate hinted at a figure of some heft.
"Vere ist you going und vat are you doing here vhen you are not to being here in der first place vhere you ist?" the leader demanded in rather garbled everybody-talk.
"I ist Eorache, daughter of Eorlobe, Captain of der Rubbermark und Thane of Chowder. Dot means you ist nice to me or you ist nothing to nobody no more," said the ruddy faced warrior.
She’s already there in all her Germanic glory. It’s Canon FFS albeit Harvard Lampoon style.
@@miriel7662 Because there isn't. The explanation given is that Héra is a variant spelling of híra (meaning one who obeys). However, híra is nowhere used as a given name, let alone a female given name.
'calling on the power of a long-lost tribe of female warriors'
smh
What can anyone do against such reckless hate?
“Ride out with me. Ride out and meet them.”
“For death and glory!”
“For Rohan. For your people.”
So it begins...
The female elf in the hobbit was one thing to learn from not to do that again not to do it again and again. Not going to bother with this thing enough is enough
Oh, for freak's sake. As a lifelong Tolkien fan, MASSIVE Rohan lore fan, and incredibly independent woman in my own right... I am sick to death of this forced "strong female" bullcrap! I have no problem at all with someone adapting a strong female character from source material IF SHE ALREADY EXISTED WITHIN IT AS THE AUTHOR WROTE IT. I love the character of Eowyn! We all love Eowyn! But stop shoving in these fake female characters (or embellishing their stories to make them entirely something they are not) in order to seem "woke" and just kissing the ass of all the social justice warriors out there.
Darn, I had some hope... Helm's story would have been fascinating to see, not his un-named daughter...
Why give her a Greek name and not something Anglo-Saxon?
Oh dear, this sounds worse than I feared. Even the name Hera is irksome, honestly. I understand that they want to keep the alliteration, but there are plenty of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic names beginning with H that they could have chosen 😠
From one book alone I have found twenty six source attested Anglo-Saxon female names (with the potential to create even more as the basic elements with meanings are provided in the work) along with several variants of each name. The people working on this project simply do not care about the integrity of their fictional world. They think a mere accent marker solves the issue of their lack of ability and pure laziness.
No thanks. I'm done with girl bosses.
Diverging from the lore of ideological reasons is getting tiresome at this stage but we'll have to see how well written she is. So long as they don't turn her into Rd Sonja it might work.
So the anime aesthetic is the least of the problems with WOTR,then?
They’re so creatively bankrupt that they can’t even come up with a better name than HERa.
I like anime-western animation fusion: I have zero problems with the art style. I do have a very strong preference for grounded and gritty fight choreography over typical anime screaming powerups.
It’s sad that they apparently are planning to waste one of the coolest characters Tolkien came up with and bench him in order to play a girlboss protagonist instead.
Helm Hammerfist could have been this larger-than-life, almost supernatural figure. Towering and scary and mythical, like a Beorn without the warmth and humour, or he could be laughing and drinking and not altogether sane like Beowulf.
And the focus could still be on his children! What is it like to have a father or uncle like that? What does it do to your sense of self or perceived worth living in the shadow of a superpowerer titan? And somebody still have to keep everything together when he’s gone doing his Hulk impersonation. He can’t be everywhere, but the enemies can. What’s it like to fight a small band of orcs or raiders when you _don’t_ have special powers? How do you lead a troop of housecarls against a single snow troll, knowing that half of them are probably going to die even if you win?
But no, he’s going to be Theoden sitting on his arse without Gandalf, and the protagonist is going to be Eowyn but without uncertainties or weaknesses.
God I hope I’m wrong.
Cheers
Hollywood today is getting to the point to where evetually all characters in any entertainment will be female and its really getting annoying. This anime is definely leaning towards that direction by adding a character that never exisited in the books this show is supposed to be based on.
What's wrong with a female lead?
@@StardogChampion06 Nothing is wrong with it. But nowadays men have been getting cast aside to the point where there will be very few male roles in any sorts of entertainment. I've already seen it in the Acolyte. I mean when they explained the twin girls' origins, they said twins came from two women, not a man and a woman. In the main cast alone, there are two, maybe three male roles, all the other characters are female. Now, I have nothing against the actors or actresses in the Acolyte. They're probably nice people. But the bulk of the women of our modern culture are trying to overthrow the men so they can be the ones who are superior.
As a big fan of Rohan and Eorlingas this news is discouraging.
As a woman, I just want well written characters...which Tolkien gave us. I don't want a StRoNg FeMaLe LeAd forced where she doesn't belong.
I think the anime style CAN work if supervised carefully - even the Bass-Rankin shows had STRONG anime leanings, more so than you might remember (think Eowyn, Bard, Aragorn…. and the motion or long swaths of lack-thereof). This story divergence though….. for crying out loud, just make your own non-Tolkien story about a fantasy medieval group of female warriors… you’d get more people enjoying it, including most of the Tolkien fans if written well (without the aid of plagiarism)
The Ranking/Bass movies which were *animated* in Japan, are faaaaar more anime than whatever this thing is supposed to be!! 😒
@@gustyko8668 Ah yes - back in the glory days of anime (at least mine!) - Robotech, Voltron… love em!
I'm so glad I found your channel as I'm currently reading The Hobbit on my channel, and I'm eager to learn ALL of deep lore of Middle Earth! Thanks for everything that you do!
Glad you found us too! We'll be starting our read through of the hobbit on our "Exploring Tolkien" podcast in 2 episodes--hope you follow along!
Arwen replacing Glorfindel was the only thing I didn't like about Fellowship. But, at the same time there were valid reasons to do it for the film adaptation. They needed to better build the dynamic and relationship between Arwen and Aragorn, so that we could buy the relationship. There's no reason, other than "whamen need to be strong", to do this with a beloved tale.
Arwen was inserted in the movies so they could attract more female viewers.
Shove in that romance.
I doubt most men could care less if she was there or not.
That being said the deleted helms deep scenes with her should've been added on to the extras content.
I always felt like they did Merry kinda dirty in the films, too.
They were like "Tolkien did her such injustice by not giving her an important role, we gonna reverse that and make her the lead of the story and the main hero!"
Oh well. They did warn us about this in interviews 2 or 3 years ago, so Im not really suprised.
Oh Jonathan! I am truly scared now after seeing the pictures and the article you read. Will this be another failed project? I thought it would be about the warriors of Rohan, about Helm Hammerhand and his life, his story, not a made up female warrior. I remember when they were making the hobbit trilogy movies and back then, Peter Jackson fought the studio not to have Tauriel as a character and especially not have her as a love interest for Kili. I am getting a sick sensation in my stomach, they are adapting the movie for modern audiences and check the boxes. I hope Freya will not be at the front of the story. I was confident that Philippa Boyens would helm the project with the same passion she had with the lord of the rings trilogy. Sigh...
It always amazes me how many people in hollywood have sold their souls. I'm guessing that when they make the Hunt of Golum movie there will be some unknown female warrior that does most of the hunting and Aragorn would be simply lost with out her. My interest in this movie has plummeted down to zero.
Eorlingas with fades!
Éowyn's usage of the term 'shieldmaiden' in the book does seem to imply that there is some kind of tradition among the Eorlingas that allows for the rare female warrior. I think you are worrying too much--maybe overthinking this. There is the legitimate concern that Hera could overshadow the role of her cousin Frialaf, but I'll cross that bridge when we get to it!
In the times we live in, nothing surprises me anymore, another movie that I won't go see at the cinema at all :(
They saw how beloved a character Tauriel was so wanted to replicate that 😊
Lol
It’s also interesting how they recently added Jackson as an executive producer - I was hopeful until these recent events and reveals
I mean, Jackson and his writers were responsible for Tauriel and superhero Galadriel in The Hobbit films. He seems to be all in on this types of feminist revisions.
I've seen Héra before, and there's Hèra, again. These reporters and maybe even the film makers can't make up their mind, can they?
A princess of Rohan is supposed to have an Anglo-Saxon name. Héra is no sound choice - it can't be héra "a servant, masculine". I can only wish it's not GREEK. Now Hèra is just nonsense.
That said, I have zero problem with a real strong female lead, as long as it's a well written, self-consistent story, unlike RoP.
Main problems:
1. To quote one of producers its "an anime adaptation". As seen in the picture Hera looks like typical big eyed anime monstrosity, young guy (far right) is androgynous - a trope so much at home in anime, but NOT in LOTR.
But this is "anime adaptation" so they'll put as many anime tropes as possible to cash in on anime audience
QUOTE:
[BOYENS] explains, “I immediately felt that it would work for anime because it's so character-based and also contained within its own world. It speaks to certain things that work really well with Japanese storytelling.”
"It would work for anime".. not even the other way round...XD
2. Its an "anime adaptation" of... 1000 words subpart to appendix to LOTR. And even then it focuses on NONEXISTING CHARACTER AND HER MADE UP STORY. So a nonxisting part of subapppendix.
Wouldnt you want to focus on adapting the existing material? No? Oh, you really want to write your own stories and use Tolkien's name to get more audience?
I think I know the answer...
3. it reeks of zeitgeist feminism and wokism
- Blame on the old male: “This is the story of the most powerful king in Rohan's history, someone who defeated his enemies with his bare fists,” Kamiyama tells EW. “Why did his lineage have to end with him? I think there is a lesson in hubris there and also for a need for responsibility and awareness in their power."
- story about especially made up a female character named... HER(A) - rofl.jpg Oh BTW its you guessed it "first time a female leads LOTR story". #firsttime #herewego
- the chosen lead character is mentioned only ONCE: when Helm is asked for her hand to give to some guy...I WONDER WHAT WOKE TROPE WOULD that be?
Oppressive marriage incoming. Males just doing everything to ruin girl boss live incoming. Oh and apparrently all-female magical warrior sisterhood incoming. Im sure the lessons Kamiyama has for us, males would be worth the watch.
I am 100000% with you! There is not a way to top Tolkien!!! Why do they do this?????? There are so many incredible female characters in Tolkiens works.. use those! Don’t make crap up!
Anime allows for stories to be told that are impossible to make live action. WETA spent a little time looking at making Neon Genesis Evangelion. They had some amazing concept art. In the end they realized almost the whole movie would be CGI.
Anime pushes boundaries. A live action took Grave of the Fireflies would be hard for anyone to watch because of content. Anything with action that pushes limits cannot be done outside of anime.
The anime in worlds where it is a huge production to make it happen. Goes for fantasy, scifi, supernatural, and anything with imagination. A few sneak through and give insight. Ghost in the Shell, Battle Angel Alita. Even those fall short for what the original anime did and they did it in the 90’s.
As a woman, I'm seriously sick of this crap.
I want the story of Helm, not his nameless daughter!!!
They don't care about Tolkien anymore at all.
It's just so stupid.
What a surprise.
I'll try to explain. If you ask yourself why this always happens with existing, well-running Frenchaises instead of developing your own Frenchaise in which you implement all these feminist things, you come to a relatively good explanation of what all this nonsense is about.
It was never about expanding a good story with something meaningful, but rather about forcing feminist ideology into the brains of as many people as possible.
So if you develop a completely new Frenchaise in which you put the concentrated feminist ideology into it, then the risk is far too high that it will become a niche product that no one watches.
The conclusion that can be drawn from the question posed at the beginning is that it is not about producing a good film, game or something similar, but about using films, games and all possible levers to infiltrate people ideologically.
For me, this explanation makes the most sense because it answers all the questions quite well. So the bottom line is that it's about ideologization with the help of art and culture, not about entertaining people.
Not surprising really.
Didn't they also say in last years press release that one of hera's male relatives erases the other shield maidens from history?
At least theyre not ruining an exosting character. This is open and obvious fan-fic, so im not too put off by it.
I don’t her name is ever mentioned in the book also Hera is a Greek name.
was anyone surprised lol...? its gonna be girl boss woke bullshit
Too many are still surprised, thats the problem
Even George R Martin, the man who made his money deconstructing a lot of Tolkien's themes, understands the truth about this BS. If they are not doing a Tolkien story they shouldn't place it in his Middle Earth setting.
I don't like that they went with Japanese anime style. It's doesn't fit the source material.
it's two worlds uggily colliding
Not durch about that.
I don't mind the style, though I think a Ghibli style would work better than this one particular style. I love seeing the story through the lense of different arts and styles.
Moving pictures don't fit the source material.
I mean, it's not as though western-style 2D animators are around much anymore and 3D (or worse, claymation) would be downright horrific.
Purely on a design level, Héra (ha! this embarrassement of a name) is already made annoying in the insistence that she stand apart from her family. Are we sure she's not related to Tauriel by chance with that specific colouring? Would it have killed them to make her hair a strawberry blonde if it was too difficult to have her resemble the rest of her family? In addition to that, what is going on with her clothing? Look at the level of detail on the men's garb and then look at her. This is not hand-drawn, so was texture and a little detailing beyond the power of the animators/the design team to achieve? Moving slightly on, why is this woman out there fighting in dress and a circlet adorned with spiky elements one slip away from poking an eye out? The image seems to suggest she found at least gloves to protect her hands - so they could have us believe she took the time to find gear for her hands but nothing for her torso and head? Even Éowyn required actual armour to be effective in battle. This just tells me Héra (ha!) is going to be one of those characters...profoundly idiotic and likely to ruin what might have otherwise been a very nice experience. This insistence that a woman is only valuable insofar as she succcessfully fulfils a man's role has become beyond trite.
I have commented before that it might have been very interesting to see this conflict through the eyes of Helm's daughter, to get her thoughts and feelings as more and more consequences pile up. They could have gone the route of her initially agreeing with her father's rejection of the suitor, but ultimately wishing she had convinced him otherwise for the sake of her people. Alternatively, they could have had her willing to marry Wulf and seeking to reconcile the parties but ultimately failing. To see a woman haunted by her own powerlessness as her losses accumulate and she is to some degree being viewed as one of the factors that led to such an outcome would have been interesting. Had they contrived to have her end up as Fréaláf's wife with a legacy of guilt, telling of her father's misfortune to her son as counsel, that would have made sense.
Instead this is being framed as some sort of legend/song that gets passed on despite no one speaking about it/singing it. This show is rotten to its core and no amount of good-looking animation can save it for anyone who requires their entertainment to have anything approaching logic behind it.
I think the problem is they don’t have the rights to any of those stories that are outside The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. So by default there are a lot of limitations on what they can do if you want to do a story with a strong female lead. Even Peter Jackson had to insert Arwen into the story where she technically didn’t belong. Maybe they should take that route instead where the story is really about Helm and he’s the main character but Hera can still be a strong character, but just one of the supporting cast like Arwen or Eowyn.
Watch the sword play look akin to some castlevania shenanigans.
So that whole arc Eowyn went through about having to deal with the hyper chauvinistic Rohan culture that would not allow her or any woman to fight, the whole plight she went through to fight and prove herself, and the disguise she had to take on in order to participate and ultimately accomplish greatness...was pointless? Considering this takes place BEFORE Eowyn, long before, it really makes no sense to have female Rohan warriors as lore CLEARLY established that's NOT a thing until Eowyn makes it a thing. In fact, it's the very venue through which Tolkien chose to explore sexism. Nobody should be for this if Eowyn's feminism moment resonated with you. It's contradictory. Cue the cuck activists who'll call anyone who doesn't like it "sexist," but the truth is that all you have to do is watch or read The Two Towers and Return of the King without falling asleep to see...this makes ZERO sense in lore and completely undermines Eowyn's struggle and great achievements. The ultimate irony here: It's being done because "girl power," but through not making sense in lore, all they've actually done is completely devalue one of the greatest organic "girl power" moments in fiction. It's no longer special because, ah, apparently Rohan always had female warriors? Since when?! The lore literally makes the opposite clear. They actually just harmed the very message they're trying to send.
Having a female character like Eowyn will be fine. Having a female character like rop guyladriel, this will be a complete turd.
Eowyn does say
"Am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse?"
-- The Passing of the Grey Company
There are quite a lot of female warriors in the Norse sagas. Then there is the grave of a warrior at Birka in Sweden, recently shown to be a woman, and a similar one in the Isles of Scilly. So the trope does have some basis. Within the story it would make sense for the women of Rohan to fight at Helm's deep, as a last resort, but I guess we can forget any such attempt at plausibility. The character design looks very generic and uninspired.
Yes. Right. You didn't watch the whole video. There is NO OTHER MENTION of shieldmaidens of Rohan ANYWHERE.
@@TheOneRingcom Apologies!
@@TheOneRingcom Just to add, Appendix A does mention "many fair and valiant women" in the songs of the Rohirrim. Possibly reflecting the Norse literary tradition I mentioned. That said, Tolkien's ideas about "amazons" and also matriarchy (see Letter 214) do seem to reflect the obsolete and discredited "original matriarchy" theory of Johann Bachofen -- very influential via works such as Frazer's Golden Bough.
I don't like how they made Helm a side character in his own story!!!! Not to mention he is made to look similar to Theoden! WHY?! Sure Helm died when he was what 68 (Theoden died being 71, few years older) but why does it need to look the same!?Ughh...if it wasn't yet another girl boss fanfic like the garbage of amazon tv show.....I may have given this a chance....not anymore! Enough is enough....hell they want to push that modern narrative everywhere....sure there were female warriors in Tolkien works....Haleth, her bodyguard as Tolkien puts
"One of the strange practices spoken of was that many of their warriors were women, though few of these went abroad to fight in the great battles. This custom was evidently ancient; for their chieftainess Haleth was a renowned Amazon with a picked bodyguard of women."
There are other cases:
"At last so desperate was the case of Barahir that Emeldir the Manhearted his wife (whose mind was rather to fight beside her son and her husband than to flee) gathered together all the women and children that were left, and gave arms to those that would bear them; and she led them into the mountains that lay behind"
...
"The revolt planned and assisted by Marhwini had indeed broken out; desperate outlaws coming out of the Forest had roused the slaves, and together had succeeded in burning many of the dwellings of the Wainriders, and their storehouses, and their fortified camps of wagons. But most of them had perished in the attempt; for they were ill-armed, and the enemy had not left their homes undefended: their youths and old men were aided by the younger women, who in that people were also trained in arms and fought fiercely in defence of their homes and their children. Thus in the end Marhwini was obliged to retire again to his land beside the Anduin, and the Northmen of his race never again returned to their former homes."
Hell Helm's sister Hild would be more important to the story as was her son, but the unnamed daughter is not as vital for the story, of course she setsi it up but she is just an excuse! Freca's conflict with the king, comes more of his rebellious nature and haughty attitude!
HELM is the real protagonist, they could have done such an amazing film with him, as tragic figure, heroic but flawed...hell I would have taken it even if they made it in this cringe style CGI-animation like that Beowulf movie!!!
The Eowyn refernce to her being the 'shieldmaiden' and not a dry nurse....probably the only reference to such...Eowyn indeed receives armor and so on and is charged with leading her people in king's absence.
The only other reference to other shieldmaidens is in the early drafts of the story so not exactly the published work but something that Tolkien played with early on while writing the Lord of the Rings!
“women must ride now, as they did in a like evil time in the days of Brego […], when the wild men of the East came from the Inland Sea to the Eastemnet”
Female warriors are rare in Tolkien works!
Anime is a great medium, but it doesn't fit this setting. "Shieldmaiden" may have been a title, or a name to refer to women from Rohan, but the rest is ridiculous. Helm's story is a great story in its own right. All they needed to do was flesh out the bare bones available to them. This is like adding an extra arm and swapping out the head.
Jackson kept the worst of Boyens feminist crap in check. We get to see girl power unleashed.
cant have strong white male characters in mordern day tv
In what book is the story of Helm Hammerhand? Thanks!
Return of the King Appendix a.ii. This channel focus on whining about woke culture and strong women in Tolkien adaptations. If you want thoughtful Tolkien content without the right wing politics there are many other better Tolkien channels.
@@ZephyrOptional Hey, thanks! I'll look it up.
@@ZephyrOptional If you dislike this channel why are you here commenting so much? Perhaps you should stick to the non "right wing" channels you say you prefer.
@@SGABlencathra you mean like 98% of the quality Tolkien channels out there? I do. I just get spammed by woke whining click bait trash every now and then and will respond to where needed. Tolkien despised right & left politics. He was a self described anarchist & communalist. I don’t need to explain myself to super sensitive right wing snowflakes that Tolkien loved strong, heroic, and powerful women, his writings speak for themselves. In Nature of Middle Earth he writes about Melian being “Chief” of the original Istari! But that’s too girl boss for you fools, isn’t it?
@@ZephyrOptional Don't patronise me, troll. I know my lore far better than you do. Now trot off and go bother other channels. You aren't wanted here.
Animation looks good.. However im up to my ears with the Guuurl warrior bossbabe trope.. Why would anyone want more of this crap?
Female warrior protagonist? No thanks, not watching this.
Of all the names they could've chosen......they chose hera......and shieldmaiden, so they're turning rohirrim into vikings
The rohirrim were already based on the vikings
@@hyperguyver2 inspired by yes but they're not vikings nor do they have basic cliche viking names.
Shieldmaiden is a term used in Anglo Saxon literature.
To be fair Hera is more of a Greek name but it does go with Helm’s lineage of H names for his named sons.
Either way, the Rohirrim are based on Anglo-Saxons, even their language is just old English with a twist
@@Maryland2 I am aware 🙏, but my point is they could've just said she's a rohirrim or the daughter of the king. As there aren't any women warriors of Rohan normally. And she's not supposed to be the main character of the story or even fight I don't think 🤔
And so now coining her a shield maiden is clearly the makers attempt to get viking fans to watch.
And yes it's even more sad that they used hera, a name from the wrong culture lol.
Plus she looks just like red sonja
Correction, she doesn't even exist in the story, the main characters are helm, and his sons and nephew freyaloff
@@brentarellano46 Red sonja in a plain gown.
That'll sell...
It Jackson … Remember Elves at Helms Deep? Remember Arwen taking a nearly incapacitated Fodo across the ford instead of him bravely resisting to the end? Remember the cave troll bursting through the door instead of Fodo being the only one to be able to fend it off with Sting? And the kicker remember, in the Hobbit, the love triangle between Legolas, Tauriel and Killi (barf) because “If I didn’t include her the movie would have looked like a tale for 11 year old boys.” Well duh it was Jackson! So why are we shocked now? Yes I would have loved if instead of “The Wongs of Powwwerrr” we had a series that went through the LoTR verse by verse however Hollywood feels it must play to the “modern audience” that doesn’t really exist or exist in an insufficient quantity to fund the massive dollars to appeal to them … whoever and wherever they are.
This just further proves that Jackson saying "we didn't want to put any of our messaging in these movies, we wanted Tolkien's message" was always just a shallow attempt (and lie) to placate the fans who were concerned about the authenticity of the adaptation….only for us to find out that they just want to position it for greater media attention as well as protect it from any negative criticism (like KK preemptively saying the fans are bigoted if they don't like Acolyte)
I dislike anime so I was only planning to watch this if it was good. I'm sick to death of the over used girl boss rubbish, so that's now a definite pass from me. Disappointing but not unexpected.
Something I am excited about is the new LotR book box set with additional new paintings and drawings by Alan Lee. I'm looking forward to that!
There's a lot of red flags but people's comments on this are so canned and forced 'girlboss' we literally only have three screenshots and like, two sentences of comments. Calm down. People are so addicted to being haters in every way, it's so pathetic.
"Éowyn says that women must ride now, as they did in a like evil time in the days of Brego son of [mark showing name omitted] Eorl’s son, when the wild men of the East came from the Inland Sea into the Eastemnet." from History of Middle-Earth VIII. I hope this is what they mean by 'call on the power of a seemingly long-lost tribe of female warriors', not an actual tribe but the SPIRIT/legend of them. I think she'll work fine as a POV character. There's a lot red flags honestly but I'm willing to go in with an open mind. If it's completely off the mark (I don't have a lot of faith in modern works lol) I'll say it but going into something with a hater mindset is sad.
And just like that any little interest I had is gone in this, not that this netflix artstyle is any good anyway kinda remembers me at the castlevania which I disliked a lot.
I think the anime style would be cool for Tolkiens universe but yeah am worried about them saying she is the "hero" of the story. That’s not true
Not a big fan of this aesthetic, to be honest 😢
When they said Boyens, I didn't trust this movie anymore. Not after what she did in The Hobbit with Tauriel. And now this empowered redhead comes out, I was right, she's another stereotypical self incert Boyens character.
I agree, but atleast shes a redhead.
No gingerside there.
No forced diversity *yet*
Girls get it done 😂
I have nothing againts anime style animation. I am far more sceptical towards this feminist todays fashion of "strong, independent female characters" and we all know what this means. Although there is stil some hope. I went to see Furiosa agains my expectations and I was positively surprised.
I’ll never watch this garbage. I don’t even know where it’s streaming and don’t wanna know because I canceled my Amazon, Disney and Netflix subscriptions two years ago and improved on my book collection. If everyone else did the same thing it would make a positive difference and put an end to this crap
Phillipa Boyens actually said she didn't want it to be a typical warrior princess thing. Hera will have struggles and doubts etc. The interviews she has done fills me with more confidence.
That's nice and all, but it's immaterial to the fact that Helm Hammerhand and Fréaláf seem to be supplanted in what should be largely their own story - as per Éowyn's opening monologue this is to be Hera's story. Most of us would much rather see what Tolkien wrote depicted - especially in animation where it would be far easier to be faithful to the source material.
@@BrokenFireMaiden of course, but I'll reserve judgement until I see more. Maybe just a fools hope!
"Not only would it feature Hèra as the main protagonist, but according to Slashfilm there is a scene that “shows the politics at play in Edoras, with a lord of Rohan wanting to erase the history of a group of female warriors and banner women to the king, a prelude of things to come.”"
No thanks.
"The film’s producer Philippa Boyens defended the decision to have the film feature Hèra as the main protagonist saying, “Everyone else dies! And before you start complaining, this is already in the text, and also the story takes place centuries before the movies.”
Which of these fills you with "confidence?
I love it
Just read the books. The story is in the books, not the movies.
“Shieldmaiden is never! There is no shieldmaidens anywhere!” you say while holding up multiple books of Tolkien. The last of the volumes you held up talks of the bodyguard of Haleth, which you mentioned. Let’s talk about that, too…
On the possible existence of “shieldmaidens” among the Rohirrim, it is useful to examine the following texts by Tolkien. Of Éowyn it is written in TLOTR (page citations according to the original hardcovers):
“…strong she seemed and stern as steel, a daughter of kings. -TTT p.119
This implies, it seems to me, that a daughter of kings can normally be expected to be “strong…and stern as steel”.
The words of Háma “…she is fearless and high-hearted. All love her. Let her be as lord to the Eorlingas, while we are gone.
‘It shall be so,’ said Théoden. ‘Let the heralds announce to the folk that the Lady Éowyn will lead them!’-TTT p. 128
Here it is seen that although it hasn’t occurred to Theoden to designate Éowyn as leader in his absence, Háma finds nothing strange in it and believes the people will accept her. Theoden accepts Háma’s suggestion immediately and without question.
Soon after, Theoden presents Éowyn with a sword and corslet, and the description of her as he left Meduseld: “…the sword was upright before her, and her hands were laid upon the hilt. She was clad now in mail and shone like silver in the sun.” --TTT p. 128
If no one there thinks it strange to leave an armored maiden in charge of the Golden Hall, isn't it possible there had been other shieldmaidens before?
And now the use of the word in quetsion:
“…am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse?” words of Éowyn, -TROTK p. 57
This is spoken as a point of argument, as if it is a known thing that a woman of the House Eorl would be a shieldmaiden.
“But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield a blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.’ -TROTK p. 58
Here again it seems she can stand on the notion that it isn’t unusual for a woman of the House of Eorl to be a fearless rider who can wield a blade.
When Aragorn refuses to allow her to join him in his quest for the Paths of the Dead, he does not say that it’s because she is a woman and but instead because of the duty that had been laid upon her by the king and that this would be true also for any captain or marshal who had received such a charge.
Now let's get back to what Tolkien wrote in the 1960s about the people of Haleth, one of the Three Houses of the Edain in the First Age:
“One of the strange practices spoken of was that many of their warriors were women, though few of these went abroad to fight in the great battles. This custom was evidently ancient; for their chieftainess Haleth had been a renowned amazon with a picked bodyguard of women.” -“Of Dwarves and Men” The Peoples of Middle-earth p. 309
This proves two things: First, that the other houses of the Atani did not have female warriors, while the Third House (of Haleth) did, and second, that Tolkien as an author was not averse to depicting the existence of female warriors as a usual practice among at least some of the Edain.
It is apparently a fact within the Legendarium that the people Rohan were directly related to the ancient people of Hador and not to the people of Haleth. Interestingly enough, by the way, the Dunlendings were descended from the people of Haleth. So, I don’t suggest that the possible existence of shiedlmaidens among the Rohirrim was a tradition handed down from the ancient people of Haleth.
But the quote from “Of Dwarves and Men” can throw some light on the quotations from TTT and TROTK and to many people, I think, when taken all together they may suggest that it is not unreasonable that “shieldmaiden” could refer to something more or less normal for noble women of the house of Eorl.
This all being said, I’m not pre-endorsing by any means what they are doing in this new animated film. But maybe let's not pre-judge it either?
The way I see it, in Tolkien’s latest writing we can read in THOME, there was a clear trend of increasing the role of females in many places of the mythology. If he had been granted a Numenorean span of life and were still alive today, who can say what he’d now be thinking now? I’m not so sure he’d agree with you at every point.
Oh no no no....
As a fan of Tolkien’s writings I cannot watch these new PC movies/series at all. It is so sad and disrespectful!
Also, why did they include these stylish “Viking” undercut hairstyles? Because it looks modern and cool?
😮💨
I’m not looking forward to this cartoon anymore; Also, not a fan of the anime style artwork for this story. It doesn’t work for Middle Earth IMO 🤦🏻♀️
Anime style? Welp, I'm checked out.
It's become a bait and switch... instead of being about Hammerhand... its becomes about his girlboss feminist daughter. Hard pass for me.
Please Gourd No
I am disappointed with this trailer, mainly because I don’t like the animation style; it looks weird and unnatural. Another issue is that once again we have a 'girl-boss' character. I am tired of these female characters appearing in every possible universe. I can't relate at all to a warrior woman who defeats men twice her size; it makes no sense and ruins the atmosphere. I wish the project all the best, but for me, as a long-time fan of Tolkien, the books, and the movies, this vision doesn’t interest me at all. Moreover, I find it surprising that after seeing what a mess Rings of Power turned out to be, Jackson decides to make changes to the lore and introduces yet another invented character, as if Tolkien didn’t know what was important in his own story
Oh man this is going to suck
The anime artwork looks boring, plain, and cheap. I expected at least something of the quality like blue eyed samurai
I like LOTR, I like anime, I won't like this one....
I'm out!
As soon as I saw this was going to be anime I lost any interest. It just doesn't fit. Middle earth is not fucking robotech. At this point, all we're ever going to get are girl bosses. Whatever...
At least she’s hot…
No thanks.
If you want to write a story about strong warrior women, why do you want to use an IP for it that lends itself so badly to that trope? LotR does have a lot of interesting characters, but few warrior women, because Tolkien lived in an age where you were still allowed to recognize physical differences between men and women, and in that reality warrior women make no sense, which is also why they were so rare in the real world.
So instead of adding warrior women like Galadriel, this Hera, Arwen in Jackson's trilogy, and the made up character of Tauriel, why not just be content with Eowyn and leave it at that? And if you want stories about strong female warriors somehow holding their own to the strongest male warriors of the world, why not write your own story?
It's just getting tiresome at this point, as if every story that gets written nowadays has to be essentially the same story as dictated by the dominant Hollywood ideology, regardless of the material you're adapting.
Eowyn, shieldmaiden of Rohan... Its staying within Jackson's LOTR.
Dude, no way, this sounds worse than Rings of Power, what the hell, someone MUST be joking with that recap of the story.
Its nothing like ROP trash
You know they can't do the Haleth story because they don't have the rights to do the Haleth story, so why even mention it?
I don't think Tolkien was generally opposed to it. One of his drafts includes this bit:
"Éowyn says that women must ride now, as they did in a like evil time in the days of Brego son of [mark showing name omitted] Eorl's son, when the wild men of the East came from the Inland Sea into the Eastemnet."
Because it IS the story Tolkien wrote. If they can't tell the story he actually wrote, then don't tell the story he DIDN'T write.
The idea of a lost tribe of Shieldmaidens is laughable and ridiculous. Pure 21st century nonsense infiltrating Tolkien.
If all these female warriors are wearing conan armour it MIGHT be tolerable.
😆
I’m out.
Tolkien wrote Galadriel as a “strong woman” her original name means “manmadien”. She was athletically equal to males and fought to defend her mother’s people in the first kin slaying. You will not hear accurate lore on this channel. Tolkien also writes about a tribe of warrior women and the head of the house of Halith was a bad ass woman warrior in the first age. Don’t forget Tolkien (Eru) created men and women as equals, not some sinful piece of a rib. Tolkien’s IP is fine for this subject.
He does mention the tribe of warrior women in this video so that means you didn’t watch it. You sir, are a contrarian.
Then why didn't they make the movie about one of the women you actually mentioned instead of this nonsense based on a character so irrelevant that Tolkien didn't bother naming her?
@@Supermanfan99 respectfully, why don’t you make some Tolkien inspired art and let everyone tear it apart because it doesn’t match their personal vision? I have a whole sketchbook full of Tolkien art and much of it is not “lore” accurate. I draw hobbits on adventure without boots and I draw Aragorn with a bread and I know both are wrong per Tolkien himself, but I still have my minds eye vision and I know it’s different than Tolkiens, yours, and everyone else but NO ONE can question my love for this literature or my ability to enjoy artistic adaptions for what they are worth. I don’t want RUclips “gate keepers” filtering my Tolkien art before I get a chance to experience it for myself. Why not hold on the criticism until it’s out? They could make a whole film on Turin’s mother in mourning with all original characters and I’d probably still love it.
@@ZephyrOptional Fan art is not equal to Hollywood yet again thinking they can improve on someone else’s stories
"Tolkien wrote Galadriel as a “strong woman” her original name means “manmadien”. "
Ah, THAT lie again.
She was called man-maiden because of her HEIGHT. Stop making stuff up.
sad, sad, sad. I hope it fails.
Cope harder