Hey I just found the video, just wanted to say that I went in thinking it'd be a smash cut of streamers and etc reacting but the little Linux bubbles explaining it further for the Non-Linux using Layman was super neat. Really well done!
i was about to say the same, i was like the dude who made this video have my total respect, I'm watching this and learning, since I'm new to Linux (i use mint cinnamon) I'm entertained and learning things at the same time, and the video is well put together, really useful since the only experience i had with Linux was trough WSL on windows for a software engineering course I'm on, that's what made confident enough to switch to Linux, Sir thank you for the educating bubbles and the good video, I'm definitely subscribing!
VRR should already be available, iirc. I don't have a vrr monitor, so idk how it works, but I know that there is also a page in the arch wiki about it. Maybe someone who knows more than me about it could tell us :)
That's 90% of literally any technical support board. Go build a time machine and travel your ass back to the official Bethesda support forums in November of 2011 and you tell me 90% of the fuckwits on there weren't going "You must be playing the game wrong, Skyrim works perfectly for me."
@@Omnizoalike that’s such bs. Same thing when you have a broken iPhone and someone else say they never had an issue thus, whatever problem you having isn’t real.😂
The difference is that everything they said that to was 100% user error. If they took the time to read documentation then it wouldn't have been that hard in the first place.
@@austinm8823if you have to read a bunch of documentation to play a video game on one system and no documentation to play it on another, which system do you think the average person is going to choose?
The best thing I heard in this video was at the end. "We hard core linux users need to take a step back and listen to what the new users are saying to us. Like Lainus and Luke.". For this - respect.
@Slukke yeah bud? Most people won’t entirely read, much less fully understand, an error message their computer throws. They’ll assume it’s telling them to do something to help them accomplish their goal, so they’ll scan to the part where it says “type *this* to keep going”. There’s no world in which someone should have a suspicion that the official app they’re downloading from their official “App Store” has a chance of bricking their machine. People don’t see it as a warning, but as a series of hoops to jump through, since the OS holds their hand through doing it.
@Slukke I am a software engineer. I use Fedora every day. Most people would not understand the consequences those messages portray. MacOS and Windows simply will not allow you to delete or end processes that will brick your machine. This is good design. It’s also good that OSes exist where you CAN do that. Most Linux distros are those. They will not fill the same role and, therefore, not have the same adoption as MacOS or Windows. It’s been a month bud give it a rest
That kinda was the point, showing that it is not as straightforward of a process as it could be. As a result a lot of work has been done on various fronts to (at least imo) make the appropriate steps to make it more accessible.
@@angrycharizard For gaming, the biggest change is Proton and Wine have improved by leaps and bounds since the Steam Deck shipped. If a game runs from Steam, there is a pretty good chance it will run without tinkering. Anti-cheat adoption is better, but is still a problem for more than a few games. Non-Steam games are better than they were, but some require tinkering if they are not very popular. It is still not a no compromises experience, but is getting closer and closer.
Sadly i have to agree there is a mentality on the Linux community of "you should've have known better" when the correct mindset for every dev out there should be "how can i make it easier" Im a dev myself and in my line of work i always have to write idiot-proof software because they interface with heavy duty machinery. It's utterly unacceptable that if we have an accident because the worker entered nonsense into a field to blame the operator, the field should be data validated and should be as friendly as possible. I see Linux stuck between wanting to be adopted, but at the same time they don't want to lose their indentity as an exclusive club that had to work hard for their achievements😅
Millions of people use Linux as a daily driver OS. You only hear the annoying, loud minority when things like this happen. The vast majority of users just go about their lives and don’t treat Linux like some sort of Holy Grail of being a nerd. It’s an OS, and a tool, nothing more. It has things I like more than Windows, so I use it. But I keep Windows around just in case, which is one of the most popular ways to use it.
@SlukkeLinux users will be told that in no uncertain detail next time they miss a harmful phrase in a EULA they didn't fully read. Information overload and poor signalling is bad design.
@Slukke Thing is that Linus comes from a windows background and we are all used to not reading error messages because usually that means at worst, the thing we are trying to do, doesn't work but there will be no consequences to the OS by doing so. What the Pop OS devs should've done is make the important parts be written in big and bold letters so that only the biggest idiot would ignore it (which they did afterwards from what I've understand). Yes, Linus was at fault but he wouldn't have been the only one making that mistake and it's important for the devs to tell the users more clearly that they are about to make a huge mistake.
What the Linux community (which I am a part of) really need to stop doing is blaming the end user for not using the software right. If Linux should ever hope to become mainstream then it needs to work with idiots who have no idea what they are doing. I see so many times people point criticism against a problem in Linux and getting the answer "Well why would you do it like that?" or "Well that is how it is supposed to work." Stop it.
I feel like open source software (including Linux) suffers from a major UI/UX design mistreatment. Even stuff like KDE has a weird and intuitíve UI, and the more niece the application gets, the worse its UI. Some of it has to do with Linux devs weird fascination of the terminal, which in some cases is fine, but the terminal is no the be all end all of using a computer and there is a reason Apple sells their products and part of it is intuitive UI/UX.
@@putzakBased. But this is changing tho. Like the New COSMIC desktop seems to have a pretty cool UI, GNOME is also ok looking. But yeah I totally see your point there
It is impossible to design software that everyone is able to use, especially as Linus showed, some people are unable to read brightly highlighted instructions written in plain English. It's folly to even try. There are tons of grannies out there who are unable to use Windows, which is already dumbed down to the point of near-uselessness for advanced users.
I don't think that's the point. Nobody shits on Windows for having a low skill floor. Nobody. We all shit on it for the lack of complex tools to do complex tasks (so the low skill ceiling). They are critizising the skill floor which might be too high on Linux compared to Windows. This is valid criticism and it's reflected by the small userbase we have. Ideally we want a low skill floor so my mom can use it for simple tasks, and a high skill cealing so devs and sysadmins can create automated tools for super complex tasks.
Linux gaming was basically NOTHING just a few years ago. Only Valve Proton, Wine, DXVK, etc getting to the stage they have gotten to *recently* have opened up the Windows gaming world to Linux users. This has exposed other areas where the Linux gaming environment suffers (looking at you, nVidia) and there will be increased focus on improving those things. Give it some time and it will be amazing. Already is, to an extent.
As someone who very recently switched to Daily Driving Linux (Mint, specifically), I've had almost no issues transitioning over from Windows, aside from some workarounds with some games. It's been damn near painless
Well it would seem Nvidia is finally seeing where the winds is blowing and have decided to improve support soooooo…eh. Better times next year, hopefully.
@@liesdamnlies3372 As a long time Linux user I can tell you that Nvidia still sucks when using Wayland and X11 still has a few issues. Their last two major driver releases, 535 and 545 have been an absolute S show. They really need to start taking the platform seriously. If the driver mess over the last 12 months was on Windows Nvidia would have gone bankrupt by now.
Linux users: "Why haven't you transitioned to linux yet? You'll be glad to finally leave Windows" Also Linux users: "Why are you having a problem? Are you too stupid to figure it out on your own?"
@@Tuxedosam. they need to make AI support for linux. that it will help with all the "stupid" question. Because like linus showed people are not the same way smart.
@@ALFABETAS999 this is actually a brilliant solution for actually useful AI integration - have a truly intelligent chatbot that runs on your hardware natively in the background which has full knowledge of the distro and can help you troubleshoot your way through things when you have no access to a network, for example.
@@Tuxedosam. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you Google a problem and the first result is the manual, why the heck would you opt to ask somewhere else? Someone already went through the trouble of writing it down, it's just lazy to repeat the same ask over and over again. The exception are threads where the person says they've already tried multiple things and nothing helped, otherwise it's completely legit to suggest the manual. If nothing else, the user might learn what the things are called and how they interact, allowing them to formulate their question better.
In the second part of the reaction, some Linux reactors started saying "It's obvious! Duh!" sort of argument not understanding that Linus was just behaving exactly like a normal end user would behave: every software I am running easily on windows can be run on Linux distro.
they also were just... wrong in some cases. the github thing for example, when you do this on windows, you get the file (i just checked this to make sure) so no, this wasn't microsoft's fault. Microsoft gives you the file you were asking for. They also keep trying to hand wave the GoXLR thing away, one of them even tries to call it esoteric, and it's like ...no GoXLR is probably the most popular piece of hardware used in the streaming/podcasting ecosystem, other than maybe corsair's streamdeck. It's weird in the first video they were a lot more understanding and in the second video it's like the first one never happened, or there was some hurt feelings in the community so the content creator's felt they had to be tougher on him? Not sure there.
I get that. It's just frustrating when linux distros get points docked off for not being obvious, when windows gets a pass since everything windows does is inherently obvious because most of the population has used windows since early childhood. In a lot of cases "it's not obvious" just boils down to "it's not like windows".
@@ashleydavis3318 I beg to differ. I as a child could use windows 20 years back as an 8 year old without having to learn windows. It was never possible for me to use Linux until college CSE. So, it's a bad UX/UI or that Linux was never meant for the masses!?
>they also were just... wrong in some cases. the github thing for example, when you do this on windows, you get the file (i just checked this to make sure) so no, this wasn't microsoft's fault. Microsoft gives you the file you were asking for. @@ExarchGaming So firefox behaves differently depending on operating system? I don't think so!
The biggest enemy to Linux adoption is the community IMO. Everyday you run into people who tell you "It's easy to switch" and "It functions the same as Windows" and "It's as simple as a couple clicks"(which I've seen some Linux RUclipsrs being guilty of as well) and people who believe them give Linux a try and run into problems and have a horrible impression of Linux because it was obviously not what they were promised. You should never lure people in with the promise of perfection, because this isn't an ideal world and a perfect product does not exist (even Windows, while definitely more straightforward and unified than Linux, has some issues), and when people give you a chance and it was not exactly the same as you promised, they will have a bad impression of the product and will never give you a second chance to sell them the product.
Yeah, linux is many things but a windows clone is not one of them. Switching to linux means the user must change how they use a computer (to some extent) and learn the ecosystem
I'm fairly computer literate and work in a technical field, and sometimes my kubuntu install pisses me off with some wildly unintuitive nonsense or a strange and difficult to research error Like, I'm not at all hating, I love using Linux, but the way people act as if you can install Ubuntu (or whatever) and transition smoothly immediately from Windows is insane - if all you do is use a web browser and listen to music, sure, that's the case
@@Anonymous4045community is definitely the problem. Which is the reason i switched back to Windows 2 years ago. I would love to use Linux, since i use my Steam Deck a lot
I personally switched to Linux randomly because Windows pissed me off and it actually works great. Sure, there are some minor and major annoyances but overall i am super happy and with the really great customization you can make it feel almost like windows. Not in every way of cause but common tasks are pretty similar
Funny enough, after installing Garuda and looking at it's aliases, I've found an alias for apt get that tells Ubuntu users that that's not how things work on Arch. I suspect Linus wasn't the first or last one to try.🤣
@@linuxrant Sure, but Garuda (and other distros probably) come pre-configured out of the box. I'm not sure if that particular alias was a default or (as I suspect) added by Garuda, thus I named the distro specifically.
@@Xaito its added by the garuda team. If you look at the file you will see a comment line that says "aliases that make things easier for user" or something like that. Its one of the reasons i love garuda. Its one of the few distros that goes out of the way to make it a REAL it just works system. You start it and boom. game runs, discord starts, obs functions, devises are configured 90% of the time. Its like a bunch of people went...huu....linux is great...but using it sucks. BING! I have an idea, lets fix that. I have been singing the praises of garuda since it dropped. love it. and im glad others are too.
@@Johndoe-176 Yes, I find it to be one of the best - if not the best - distro to get into desktop Linux. It does good stuff out of the box that a new user wouldn't even know he needed. For example I probably wouldn't gave tried using fish shell on my own, but I really appreciate it now.
I can translate it: Adults with adult friends. They have wife / husband, kids, maybe dogs, cats and who knows what. They are not playing PC games anymore. Sorry that you had to hear it from me first. :P
@dreaper5813 That's an extremely elitist attitude dude. And very warped. Someone with their phone in their face doesn't equate to someone who has a lot of friends online. Someone in our DnD group had to move away due to an emergency, so we moved to Discord to keep him included. One other person doesn't have a car, and another travels for work. So it's difficult to plan a way for all of us to meet up in person outside of our DnD sessions. We keep in touch through text in between sessions. If you're lucky enough to keep in touch with your friends and loved ones in person that's great, but it's an uncommon situation. I also met a couple people through online groups that I became pen pals with, and a few others I just talk to every now and then, on and off. Also the people who "have their phone in their face" and "are the most miserable" may have anxiety or depressive issues. It's not the phone making them depressed or anxious, they're on the phone to avoid talking/interacting with people like you. 😂
Wdum, steam and valve is one of the best large companies. They practically open sourced hammer with how much documentation it has, and they let you make your own mods and stuff.
I once bricked an Ubuntu system while trying to watch Netflix. That was like day two of me trying out a Linux distribution. I didn’t give up that easily, but I had to erase my system every time as issue came up because, as a noob, I didn’t know what else to do.
I tried to get the finger print on my touchpad working but I somehow locked myself out of my system in like 4 hours of installing. So I reinstalled lmao
Oh man, I got locked out of sudo and couldn't install ANYTHING, had to reinstall got the same problem and somehow learned about init=/bin/bash in grub and edited the GOD DAMN sudoers file somehow. It was pretty painful.
As someone who isnt really interested in getting into linux, I found this whole video great, seeing a bunch of real users react and understand what certain problems where and even critiquing some simple mistakes that were made was really interesting!!
I feel like some of the linux reactors in this video are missing the forest for the trees when saying things like "it's not linux's fault" that nvidia or github aren't well supported/intuitive: the challenge is about how easy it [was, at the time of the video] for a windows user to switch over to linux without preexisting knowledge or connections to give them a hand. Its not about assigning blame, its about taking a look at what sorts of problems and obstacles a new user might expect to encounter. Similarly, the goxlr thing: sure, maybe the device or software or whatever doesn't support linux, and it is unreasonable to expect the linux devs to make everything under the sun work for their system... but if someone already _has_ that device or software that works fine on their current setup, it still presents a legitimate obstacle to switching. It's not linux's fault, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem for the people who use it on windows and are considering switching operating systems. To use an (admittedly rather dark) analogy: it's not South Korea's fault that North Korea will shoot anyone who tries to cross the border because they would much rather live there, but that doesn't make the issue suddenly disappear, and it'd be irresponsible to try to convince someone to attempt the move without informing them of that issue
While what you say is true, the issue is that Linus and most people should not expect two different OS's to support all the same stuff, they are different by nature, Linux should have reaserch about all hid necessay Softwares and hardware compability before-hand and tell people to do the same because it's a basic concept to grasp. Linux is different, therefore I should research about it.
@@murillodaniel9208 This is a good approach for a "tech-y" user to make, but I don't think it's reflective of the real world situation for most Windows users. They come from an ecosystem where they can expect basically every PC software they've ever heard of to run fine on their version of Windows, provided its not decades old and they click on the correct download link, they can expect basically every PC gadget they came across to be more or less plug-and-play (maybe requiring a software download, but again, that's just following the provided URL and running an installer), etc etc. You say that "its a basic concept to grasp. Linux is different, therefore I should research about it", but for the average Windows user that just uses a browser, file system, the office suite and whatever specific applications they use for work or leisure, that's not really the case. One of the major selling points of the OS is that you don't _need_ to do much if any research for the most part, since Windows has a big enough market share that its rarer for a user to encounter something that _doesn't_ work fine with Windows (unless it has prominent apple branding and whatnot). The equivalent of skimming through the instruction manual on a new appliance, following the standard patterns of other software, and learning as you go based on UI prompts/options is fine for the majority of users most of the time for most of the hard/software they want to use. It all comes down to what people are used to, and ATM, Windows users enjoy the privilege of not really having to worry about things not being compatible (unless they're looking at more esoteric things, in which case they're more likely to be an advanced user and more comfortable with researching and troubleshooting and whatnot), so switching to an OS where you _do_ need to mindful of such things presents a legitimate barrier to entry. Again, none of that is in any way Linux's fault, and you could argue that such a mindset is unfair or whatever, but it's still the way things currently are for Windows users, and the video is about how hard it would be for them to switch operating systems, so it is still entirely valid for the context of the video. Plus, even if Linus had done the research and discovered his hardware was incompatible, it would still be a valid concern, because having to spend time and money on replacement hardware is still a potential pain point for prospective pilgrims
@@Zeppongola The point is, some things aren't really fixable... We should put the blame where it belongs, the companies that make these products. An incredible amount of stuff is already reverse engineered. We should inform users that it doesn't work, but also why it doesn't work. Yes, saying that's it's not the fault of Linux doesn't help the end user, but if we never start pressuring these companies to make products with Linux in mind, the end user simply won't be helped. The only way to do that is for people who want to use Linux to be aware of where to direct their anger to. It literally doesn't work differently between MacOS and Windows. And yeah, if you run very expensive hardware that simply doesn't work on the other thing you want to use, you're bound to have to make a compromise. Not using Linux could be that. I can't tow a trailer with my car, it doesn't have a hitch and it's like tiny. I don't have the money to buy anything else, so it'll have to make do as is.
@@break1146 But that _isn't_ the point; that's a _separate_ point, born from a stance that- while perfectly valid in general -doesn't match the content they were reviewing. It's a video discussing their experience switching over, what they found easy and the barriers to entry involved, not a call to arms or a criticism against Linux. If you want to argue that the video _should have been_ a call to arms or pointing out where the blame lies, go ahead, but that's a separate discussion; as things are, the video is "thinking of switching to Linux? Here are some things to be aware of" rather than "Here's some things Linux isn't able to do well because of _these_ companies; if you want to use Linux in the future, make your voices heard". Even if the reviewers have the same stance you're championing, they need to separate that from their review, otherwise they're not discussing the points the authors make in the right context. It would be like a vegetarian watching a video where somebody rates a bunch of dishes, and acts like the reviewer is talking gibberish whenever they give a meat dish a nonzero score
It’s not enough to replicate the existing experience, Lindows already tried that. There has to be something to draw people in **and** it has to do what they already want. Privacy and freedom aren’t the answer otherwise people wouldn’t be using Google software and you, comment reader, wouldn’t be using RUclips.
I’ve never seen a format exactly like this before, at least not this well done. It’s cool to see the live reactions and then hear consensus from several people. Makes me more confident about the conclusions
Thanks for this video it was fun to see the different takes all mashed together. I didnt do a reaction to the 4th video of the challenge now I wish I had so you could have included it here 😎
I really liked your take on the whole mess. I went back and looked over your entire set of videos. I enjoy your channel a lot--well worth a follow for sure!
Heya, new to this channel and just wanted to compliment your supercut style! I'd seen some other channels do reactions by just smashing together all reactors playing at once in various corners where they're constantly talking over each other in a chaos of emotions. The extra effort you put into curating the best points being made goes a long way; this was an excellent vid.
What they need to understand is that when Linus makes a point that seems in bad faith or incorrect, it is often to illustrate that most normies would probably come to that conclusion, therefore proving that it is unfit for mainstream use.
Yeah, that's what really struck me, is how hostile people got when he did something wrong, because I can totally see someone, even L2 Helpdesk level, make that mistake in a blink, because they don't read the documentation fully, and don't expect stuff to break that easily. Working in a Windows enviroment, you have to work pretty fucking hard to break the OS as catastrophically as you can easily do in Linux (Though sometimes Microsoft does it for you instead, how nice of them)
Pretty much. I'm no dunce myself but i tried to get linux to work for me on existing hardware I had but in order to try and get it working in my work environment requried more work. It wasted my time again and again. It's not that I couldn't eventually figure it out or that x or y product wasn't supported it was that if it takes me 5 days to figure out how to get PaperCut to work because it needs java and installing java is a nightmare because there are 7 different possible java posibilities and they don't all work with my distro and my version of papercut only to find after ive spent that amount of time and papercut doesnt want to play ball with the work servers because the login authentication or whatever the hell the difference is aaaaand thats when you give up. Linus is showing that if you don't find the puzzle fun, forcing someone to operate a puzzle when they want to make a document and print it is going to put people off.
Yeah, Linus was going from a "follow the advice you keep seeing online of stop using windows and switch to Linux" and because the people giving that advice are so enthusiastic and will shut down any arguments to the opposite, the fact that a common refrain was "don't use Nvidia" was in the video, shows that it's not helpful advice when Nvidia is like 80% of the dGPU market. He also used tutorials online, and most tutorials assume you're on Debian or Ubuntu and are using the terminal, probably why he went to the terminal in part 2 straight away, as that's probably the guide he found online.
Honestly, I think File manager developers should just add another prompt telling you the progress of the operation instead of hiding it somewhere in the app like a moving icon. Having a visible floating progress bar makes it easier to see if the file is still copying, compressing, etc.
KDE is a nightmare with this stuff. It's a powerful DE and very customizable, but the refresh button thing alone... these people telling you how to add a refresh button to the window... the moment you have to explain that? You've already lost.
@@spell105 funny thing is that they claimed that due to the exposure of Windows user since childhood, linux became hard to use for the average folks. Let me get this clear, I never studied Windows, I started using it with games when local Lan cafes became the norm. I never studied it but understood it. Maybe there's just the UX that is better to understand and made everything obvious to a newbie. Like for example, in Lan cafes, you usually just double click the shortcut in the desktop to start your game. That's just how it was since then. In Linux and most distros, you can't easily add shortcut in the desktop. Especially after installing a software. You either have to dig in some app drawer and find your app there or your app has a weird name like handbrake or GIMP instead of photo something or image something or video converter.
@@LynxxLancer People can whine about Windows all they want, and it is a mess - but Microsoft spends billions - and always has - on testing their shit against average consumers for ages, with proper testing methodology. Fact is that Windows is easy as hell to use, they literally make it that way. Only Apple takes this to greater extremes.
"he can do this advanced thing but couldn't figure it this simple thing earlier..." Yeah, they literally just said it was 3 weeks later, he's had time to practice and study. You make fun of him for not paying attention then you don't pay attention immediately after.
@nnnik3595 Not necessarily. Given how little knowledge Linus and Luke would retain from playing with a distro for 1 month out of 2 years and the ongoing march of technology changing the game during that amount of time anyway doing the exact same challenge every two years would be a huge benefit to the gaming community I think. I already see comments here along the lines of 'if only they did this 1 year later'. Hopefully they revisit the topic when Windows 12 launches at the very least.
@@tzuyd Well, since I often forget how to program after like 10 days without using a specific language I think they could do it every year or two and just forget everything they did.
I'am a old time linux user and I found this video very funny. It's not easy to leave your comfort zone. The Nicco's face when the guy have realized manjaro didn't use apt package manager was a very funny part. 👍
Yeah I'm still waiting for the package manager. Not one of them but THE package manager for linux which is part of the kernel and understands both kernel-space and user-space and cannot be replaced with any kind of homemade yet an other bullshit manager.
@@manuelrivera6778The last time I looked in his channel, I believe it was a hyprland+arch setup(Fair warning: If you're new to linux, don't go with this). Hope it helps
The thing with discord is that there *is* a flatpak, but discord's website only will offer you a deb and a tarball and no inexperienced linux user like Linus is going think to check for that separately This comes up again with OBS, yes it's in the graphical package manager, but OBS's site gives command line instructions using apt.
almost every set of instructions I've found for installing Anything is 'enter this into the command line'. Not least because they don't start with 'download this thing using your package manager' but 'download this thing from our website using this link right next to the instruction'.
That's true and it's a issue, I wish most distros would come with a warning, telling the user to search for their apps on the store before trying to install through anywhere else.
@@murillodaniel9208People will read and understand that like they read and understand an HTTPS certificate error They click the continue button until something works or breaks
I don't like the guy who showed up 3rd. While learning Linux I bricked my laptop 3 times and corrupted my project even more. It was a process and learning had to happen all throughout it. Mistakes and misconceptions are normal for beginners. That guy didn't seem to get it and seemed to think Linus was supposed to know everything right from the start
Totally agree, whilst they all start off understanding they get into the mindset of its a user problem, not understanding that's the Linux problem currently
@dreaper5813most people who today are interested in tinkering are already sold on Linux. The problem is that Windows has an iron grip on users who want to do the damn thing they want to do instead of troubleshoot or configure. I know people who have a nintendo switch and a laptop where they just play games on their switch and they just watch videos and stuff on their laptop because all of it just works out of the box, configuration ends at setting a password.
@dreaper5813maybe back then but today is different. For the vast majority of new Windows or MacOS users, the experience is really plug it in, turn it on, and go.
Many Linux users are like ninjas and we make ourselves invisible online. Which is bad, since when companies take numbers, we're not there and it seems only 2% of people use Linux and other 3% are "unknown" and another 1% are not even noticed.
We do show up in bug reports though. Which is good when a developer wants to develop their software and bad when they want to release a MVP and forget about it.
You should not expect a complete different OS to work like another OS, same thing about Windows and MacOS. Changing OS is a big vhange and you should make your proper research, is that simple.
@@murillodaniel9208the point of the challenge was to assess if Linux was posed to push out Windows for gamers. That ultimately means appeal, and if the experience of migrating is not appealing, the answer is no.
And that's exactly the point Linus is trying make. He's just showing his experience on his transition to Linux. No one expect Linux to be an exact clone of Windows.
I mean, idk about you but I feel like most adults don't have a friend group of people who play video games. The little free time I do have to play games I would never be able to coordinate with all my friends to get on at the same time.
@@jamess.2491 Well as an adult with a friend group who do still hang out with each other and play games when we can't physically be around, I'm sorry but your situation isn't "most adults". At least anecdotally. We're all in our 30s, have careers and relationships, and still have time to game. To each their own.
good editing. this gave me another perspective even though i watched the LTT videos and some of the reactions already because this supercut adds even more context and the reactions are well-placed and informational.
@19:32 aaaaaand he missed the point of the challenge and decided to get defensive over it I think it is completely fair to have that expectation and is the reason why linux isnt so big, theres not enough support, its not fair to hold that against linux but... its the ecosystem we live in so it is fair to expect a solid experience similar to windows.
@@dreaper5813 LOL, too weak for change. Thanks for showing us the perfect example of why some Linux users are so tiring to deal with. You're just contributing to the reason why Linux desktop will never go mainstream.
@@lindenreaper8683 Another overuse of the word 'cope'. Are you people this lacking in imagination or are you @dreaper5813's alt account. You talk exactly as stupid as he does. "And like I care about mainstream." You're watching a video relating to LTT showing the experience a mainstream user would have switching to Linux. If you didn't care about the mainstream, why are you watching such videos? Do you just love torturing yourself by watching videos that you do not care about? "I'm not whining. But slaves to Microsoft are. LOL" You sure are whining a lot about Microsoft for someone not whining and not caring about the mainstream.
Месяц назад
@@stephen01king Good, at least we won't have to deal with absolutely fucking illiterate morons.
I see your point, but I disagree that this is Linux's fault and so does Linus (see: his critique of Nvidia in this same video). As said, if you are trying to do something only a Mac can do and Windows fails at it, then that is not an indictment against Windows. If it's an indictment against anyone it's against developers not adding compatibility which is up to them personally. And I wouldn't even say this is an indictment. This is kind of an issue where the lack of compatibility pairs up with the lack of adoption which is because of a lack of compatibility. A big issue with Linux, but there is nothing Linux can do other than offer workarounds until developers adapt their software. But the fact that Linux even has workaround solutions is actually a compliment to Linux, if something like this failed on Windows/Mac there is a good chance you would have no way of getting it to work. That Linux offers such solutions should be enough to draw people to use Linux for many usage cases. With a little bit of elbow grease you can get so many things to work fine on Linux, and this is not elitism either. I am genuine when I say that it's usually very simple, as with Wine for example. I think the reason that more people don't adopt Linux is less about compatibility and more because people are used to the system they have and don't want to change it as doing so is a hassle, even if whatever they do can work on another system just fine. The evidence of this is how Windows users are even reluctant to 'upgrade' to a new version of Windows, and I also think this is perfectly understandable.
The zip file extension thing happens with a lot of conversions of files in windows explorer too, not a linux exclusive issue, just based on how files are generated.
Color me shocked that, after not reading a single word on the screen other than "Yes, do as I say!" and bricking his desktop, impatience was a problem for Linus.
difference between linux and windows in this case being: windows pops up a big box saying it's doing something, while KDE puts it in the corner. not every DE is like this, but that's kinda the issue isn't it?
Windows hides these files in a seperate temp folder, because obviously if they didn't users would try to open the temp files. It's a clear open goal, blindingly obvious potential problem. Other fixes might be hiding the temp file, or just having a progress bar to show the compression is still happening. These are UX bugs that should be fixed, simple as that
Collecting a whole bunch of reactions, and especially the most valuable and insightful ones, and then adding some context notes to this makes this a really good and interesting watch. Also very funny.
@@LUIGIMAN309 With the introduction of Vanguard on League, I'd have to say that multiplayer games are on their way to work less and less on Linux unless the devs finally get their shit together and actually allow Linux players to play.
@@LUIGIMAN309most games that require anti cheat, work like crap or not at all. This is most popular multiplayer games. Whatever you political opinion on anticheat or you personal opinion on what games are good, it is a fact a *lot* people play games with anti cheat.
The classic Linux community response! 😂 "How do I play COD Warzone with my freinds? It's a hugely popular free battle royale all my friends play" "You don't!"
Yeah, if you're used to Linux and knwo the default is to ask for "y", that might raise an eyebrow, but it was literally the first thing he installed, he didn't really have much of a reason to read everything the terminal put out.
@@iurigrangWell, the actual GUI did prevent him from bricking his system and explained why. If he'd used apt (rather than the automation tool apt-get) he would have gotten significantly fancier syntax highlighting and different messages.
Honestly while i guess poeple not used to computers might not pick up on that... if a comand prompt asks for such a specific answer i would double and tripple check just what on earth i am doing. Linus should have absolutely noticed that something was not gonna be right. After all to get to that point he had to A: go into the comand prompt because the software center/pakage manager didnt allow the installation B: Specifically type a phrase WITH special characters in it. While I agree with the point made by the reactors that the warning should stand out, I also think someone like Linus should know better than to just blindly follow the prompt given to him without reading the warning.
@@sonicfan1693I think he was kinda role playing as a more average user, rather than the super user he actually is. I found finding solutions to problems I had in Linux to be tedious, as a lot of answers required using the command prompt. To the point that it seemed like using the command prompt would be the main way to install many programs. It was about two years ago that I last tried it, around the time of the LTT Linux videos, so maybe I should give it a try again.
What I like about Linux gaming is how you can configure tons of stuff for each game. Even if you do it through Lutris, to make the process much more simple. In modern Windows you either hope an old game would properly work and/or someone did fan patches for it, or maybe use emulators, which is not a great solution for anything past DOS games. Example - I installed Midtown Madness 2 on my modern Windows machine (it's a Win98 era game basically). It launches, but 3d doesn't work properly and even in the menu it has terrible fps. Because it uses a very old directx or directdraw (I don't remember which at this point). In Linux Lutris I just chose an option to install this game "for an old system". So basically it just configured some important stuff in wine for me. And everything worked. However of course Linux gaming isn't perfect. And another thing also is making mods work for some games too. Mods can use different tricks to work, they are not all just resources in override folder. Also I use an AMD gpu and a single monitor, so I definitely dodged some potential problems as well. However even with AMD it is very sad that there is no Adrenalin for Linux. I'm quite casually using Linux at home, not doing much, so another good thing about it is the customization options. Windows is awfully boring. Also I've been using it for like ~25 years. Not saying I quit Windows, I have both. However I will never use Win11 at home I think, so staying on Win10 as much as possible.
This is just a great example of being an IT tech and working around users. "You need to read what the commands are telling you before you do them!" That's not what people do. People skim stuff and then when they allow it, get confused when it breaks something
To me this is the bigger issue Linux has if it ever wants to be adopted by the mainstream Yes it’s wonderful to have the higher skill ceiling and to have more privacy and security, but the general end user is never going to switch if such basic shit can devolve into such a mess
its really irritating when the youtubers who are reacting give advice to luke and linus that involves the terminal when these tasks can just as easily be done with a gui
Love some of these guys... "yeah so you just type these 4 commands everyone knows and you can solve your problem. Don't be such an idiot" I know, i know... Linux is great. But you have to have a way above average understanding of computers to even have it stay alive, not to mention doing more complex tasks. And yes, i know the "Linux experience" is better now, but it's still not there.
@@kurostyx9124 I think a more apt analogy is a normal everyday car, and a helicopter with all the instructions and labels in Swahili. It will get you where you want to go quicker, but you need to learn a different language to do it, and it's a lot more complicated to drive. But once you learned all that, you are cool, and you can go anywhere. But the car will get you there too, much easier, but slower.
Although I'm not the target audience, I do hope there is a distro that specifically focuses on mass adoption rather than being real good so that we can atleast point new users to that first
@@hypermiraclepositivegirl2415 there are already "Linux" flavours who just do that: Android, ChromeOS and SteamOS. Oh, did you mean non-cooperate ones? Sorry, no luck there, the only ones who have worried about making the user friendly "Linux" versions have been big ass corporations like Valve and Google and I really doubt that there will ever be a Linux variation as user friendly as ChromeOS or Android developed by the "Linux Community" rather than a corporate overlord.
Месяц назад
@@misterlobsterman You're talking about learning a different language when literally all Windows gives you for an error is a hex code.
We just watched 47 minutes of nerds discussing an OS, your attention span isn’t fried lmao. You’d need a pharmacy’s worth of adderall to watch all these videos
The one thinf i thought was hilarious was it took me over an hour to get my sister's HP printer setup, then to get her MacBook, her tablet, and my windows machine to find it. Then a qeek later I blew the dust off an old laptop, installed LMDE to test it out, and it immediately found and swtup that printer on its own. Linux just works better than Windows with network items and its sad.
It was really cool to hear from other Linux users who have experience. Watched the whole ting and learned a lot of points of interest. Thanks for the video.
Wow, I just learned something new from watching this video. I've been running Fedora KDE comfortably for the past 6 months but I wasn't aware of adding in refresh into the dolphin toolbar lol
you get better with time. you start out struggling, having to look up how to do basic things, and then with time you just know most of them off the top of your head and dont really need to have references.
@@goos42 yeah but if the point is to advertise linux to the mainstream windows/new users (which is the whole point of this challenge) then you can not expect the users to keep struggling to try and solve something as simple as installing a game.
22:00 I'm surprised how many were quick to defend Linux here. This is still a byproduct of the Linux experience, even if GitHub itself is not a Linux problem.
yeah. if you wanted to install something on windows or mac its always an exe or a dmg file. you rarely ever have to go into github to download a script and run it unless you are an enthusiast. but expecting common people to go to github to get basic programs working is not a user error
This challenge was a great thing for the Linux community. I'm also proud of how reasonable people have been watching them make mistakes, it's important to understand how high the barrier to entry is and how historically uh.... Difficult, the community can be, especially to new users.
Linux community has a fatal flaw of: "If you don't know what you are doing, you aren't welcome". I'm a god damn mechanical engineering who needs to go through thick bricks of complicated technical text, and I can't even bother to try to wrap my head around the bullshit of Linux using. I do some basic things, but anything beyond that comes crashing down when I will hit face first a brick wall of something being: "Oh yeah that is a bug/problem community has known about 10 years but it hasn't been fixed, so everyone just uses this complicated work around.". Also at 32:35 oh yeah! Such an intuitive and easy way to do! Anyone who doesn't know that this is the way you should do it just stupid and shouldn't complain until they learn to use linux and command prompts. Compare this to installing a font on Windows? Drop the file in to the folder and you are done. Honestly that time stamp is the reason people would rather not bother than turn to linux. I can't even read that command. It isn't human readable. The UI/UX perspective is just shit (as is the case with everything Linux in my opinion). It is one thing to have crypictic mess like that. If the command prompt was text rich like: "Copy FileName to FolderName. Thanks". And this isn't even unusal, there are machines and software that actually act like this. Particularly German designed. Where instead of enter you have "Bitte" or "Thanks". Like GrandMA light control systems, on the physical controls and software "if something doesn't work, you haven't been polite enough". Some german CNC and NC systems work like this too. I have programmed industrial automation from the remote controller and the interface is bascially: "Move to (point) with (Movement type) at (movement speed) and (Movement precision)" then next line can be "Wait 5 seconds. Call (device)"; "Do (action)". Now why would anyone want to code industrial automation with such "ineffcient" language? Because it is meant to be programmed by Danny the Welder, Jane the Technician and Bob the Engineer, without more than day or two of training in the use of the interface. If Linux wants to "become maintstream" the collective community needs to choose one distro to develop to be the "Windows of Linux", pour money and time to UI/UX and then make it usable as easily as your basic industrial systems.
All I'll say here is that there ARE commercially supported and heavily funded versions of Linux. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, and RedHat all have a lot of money invested in their respective projects, and those projects do cross-develop resources they share, such as the Linux Kernel. The main issue I think you'll find is that Linux is marketed first and foremost as a server solution, not a consumer-grade desktop OS. Development and popularization of the Linux desktop is largely down to enthusiasts, many of which are coming to Linux from that experience they have with using it as a server.
I think you gave the wrong timestamp. As for the font point: Here on my system you just doubleclick the font, it shows you a preview of the font and then you click install. The UX might be shit on some Desktop Enviroments but on Plasma (which conveniently one of the developers was shown reacting to the LTT challenge), it is just as intuitive as Windows. And for your third paragraph @Omnizoa has already addressed it but I'd like to include SteamOS into the mix, it's not out* yet (officially) for hardware other than the Steam Deck but it's there.
To be honest, I admit that most of what you have written is right. But on some things I have a different opinion: You write that the example with installing a font was too complicated. Well, yes, if you do it the complicated way that Luke chose, it is. But did you see how easy it was for Linus? So your example is flawed... Then you want a "mainstream" windows-linux. This is complete the opposite of what should or will happen! And for many, many good reasons. Why don't all car manufacturers collectively build one car? There are different needs, even a single manufacturer builds many types of cars - there is no one-fits-all in cars, neither is there for operating systems, graphical interfaces or even pdf viewers. You want that somebody pours money and time into UI/UX into Linux and makes it usable ... Yes. That's right, this is what Redhat, OpenSUSE and Canonical are doing. And if you look closely, many of their systems are already quite good, I would argue that they're much better than Windows or MacOS. And yes, I mostly work with Windows and Linux, both. For me the most user-friendly system to date is Fedora Silverblue, closely followed by a ton of other linux distributions, then Windows, other linux-distributions and very far at the end - MacOS. I'm not used to it and it drives me crazy.
@nathank-jw7uv and nobody should have to do that these days unless you're doing something *weird*, or *you're* weird. I use command line for stuff all the time, I'm used to it. But for just simple tasks it's way too much hassle for my specific case. And for installing a font? That's lunacy. It was lunacy back in 1995.
I enjoyed this cute stitching of comments from the peanut galleries to Linus' mess. Realistically he's probably above average in the group, "average people installing Linux." I'm really not sure any "average person" from Windows, trying to get Linux working, would have done differently on Pop_OS catastrophe. If the issue was the install needed a full update after install, then the install should have brought this up when the GUI was loaded and said so, telling the newbie user this. "I require a full update. Click "Continue" to update now...." But it doesn't, does it? Of course not. It's NOT user friendly. Windows has huge issues, surface and sub-surface. MacOS? Yep, really distasteful issues. But then there is Linux. I remember when it came out. We ("Unix people") HOPED it was going to save the world. Be the new "best thing" from Kernel 2.0 up. And it did a lot of that. but, here we are, with me looking at my 3.5" floppy Linux install wondering WHY still today a 4GB or 9GB .iso install doesn't work 100% of the time, OR GIVE A DECENT ERROR. Not dumping this on you, just mentioning that we need more than GUIs. We need GUIs that give ERRORS which anyone--grandma, the dude across the street who wants a working laptop, this kid down the road--can install an OS which is 33 years old and it just works. And the "Linux websites," holy moly they really are bad. I guess my issues is I still remember how bad, yet good, Unix was. How BSD was going to save us all (well, okay, it really did, but....), how Solaris going to x86 was the golden calf. And how Red Hat Linux v7 was the best thing since sliced bread. Well VMWARE sure liked it since it was based on it. Perhaps in another 33 years.....
maybe something like chatgpt 5 can automate things to work more. that you can only write/say to it "install x" and it will do it properly for you in linux, including all required pre updates before it, including driver updates etc.
Месяц назад
You do realize there are hundreds of Linux distributions, right?
thank you so much for splicing all these clips together so wonderfully
8 месяцев назад+6
Excelent editing, from all of my preferred Linux youtubers. Gaming on LInux has come a long way, (specially if you think about the steam deck experience), but I have tried it and get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff necessary to configure some games (when available)... Wine, Lutris with a thousand possible configurations... that is exactly the opposite of console gaming, that in the end, is what the regular user wants...
Pipewire and Flatpak/XDG Desktop portals have made Linux way more useable since I started using Linux in 2018. Also pipewire isn't just for audio, it's also for video streams.
I love to start with things from the earliest point to see how they evolve but not with Linux lol. I began using it this year full time for most of the year. Sure there was some bumps in the road and at times wanted to go back to windows but was really liking things about Linux already. I'm glad I started now when things are so much simpler than ages ago.
I'm an old man now, and started using PCs with Win95. I can attest that learning to computer with Windows and learning to computer with (many versions of) Linux, simply as an end user, have been two utterly different experiences. And let me tell you, Windows wasn't the one that completely confounded me every friggin time. Twice, over the last three decades, I have resolutely decided to permanently install a Linux distro ... once lasting 6 months, and the other lasting over 2 years. (Plus a few other lesser attempts.) I cannot emphasize enough, the sentiment expressed to the Linux community over and over, truly - it just needs to work. I know because I've been there. I love you; I want you; but I just can't have you.
I like how in almost every circumstance the response is to open with 'yeah I can see how a new user might think that' or 'this is a bug' or 'this is a UX problem' and then criticise the resulting train of logic trying to get around each problem by blaming the user. Gardiner was the most tolerable. "GitHub is MS, so you should be blaming MS" No, because as a Windows user he never felt like he needed to resort to using GitHub to solve an entry level issue. "That's not a Linux problem, that's a problem with PulseAudio" Weird how Luke never had this PulseAudio problem on Windows then. "Lukes problem is that he doesn't want to go for a drive to the store" Because Windows never required it to get this working. "You don't need mp3s, convert all your mp3s to oggs" This is the core mentality in the Linux community that never got a bug fix.
These criticisms suck. 1.) The lack of an intuitive interface on GitHub isn't a mark against Linux just because a user on GitHub happens to offers a script a Linux user might want. 2.) Gardiner didn't say "That's not a Linux problem", he said "That's not an OBS problem". 3.) He's talking about using a device he doesn't normally use. He'd need the cable regardless of the operating system on the PC he's connecting it to. 4.) That concerns the topic of standardizing FOSS software which was only briefly referenced once in the original videos and only brought up here to point out that Linux is much easier now than it was then.
And here, once again, we see my point demonstrated immediately without a hint of self realisation. For the average person, Linux is a fun toy if you want to use it for printing and word documents and other things a $50 tablet is good for. The people around it are a-holes and because they're the ones responsible for making it better, it will never replace anything.
@@tzuyd Look, man. Blaming linux for your github ui issues is about as nonsensical as blaming the Federal Highway Administration when the McDonalds drive-thru doesn't serve icecream.
@@tzuyd I acknowledge that a lot of the issues raised are completely valid, but everyone seems stuck in a windows mindset where the full extent of the user experience is the sole reponsibility of a single entity; the Microsoft Corporation. Most of the pieces that make up any one of the infinite versions of the 'linux desktop' are managed by completely unaffiliated groups of devs. You can and should criticize the individual parts, or possibly the desktop environment if the package comes preinstalled, but blaming 'linux' as a whole is just incorrect.
Nobody blamed Linux for Guthubs UI problems, and even bringing that up shows great dishonesty in engagement. The complaint was clearly about Linux functionality, for which a fix was posted on Guthub. Your reply proves my point yet again.
@@spaceghostmiideh fuck em, theyre basically proprietary spyware, full on RATs even that people voluntarily install for the sake of not running into cheaters when all of that couldeve been done serverside the whole time
@@spaceghostmiid Well, they all said they hadn't encountered those issues because they don't play multiplayer games, not that they don't play multiplayer games because of those issues.
@@godminnette2 from experience most multiplayer games are a no-go on linux without a lot of tweaking. anything with battleye, EAC, or other kernel level anticheat does not work on linux (unless the developer specifically added linux support)
@@OmnisArchives thanks for including me! I'll admit its pretty strange to be presented as an equal to the likes of Brody and Muta. But I'm appreciative regardless :)
L take. Linux community is the best part of problem solving on linux. Any time you run into an issue, someone has already posted about it and has already answered and solved the problem. The only time anyone ever has issues is if you ask dumb questions. Its like if I go into a car meet with a knife in my tire screaming that I need to fix my alternator because I refused to spend 30 seconds to read. After this you go around spouting how this car sucks and is unintuitive, and how much you hate this car, and that a bicycle would just be so much better. And everyone at the car meet is just annoyed by your presence, but deal with it anyways. THEN, 30 other people also walk into the meet for equally dumb reasons. The people will roll their eyes and just stop helping. If you spam forums that you ignored the terminals advice and proceeded to uninstall something, people will roll their eyes. AND THEN, taylor swift comes out and says "yeah man this car really sucks, in order to drive the car, you have to turn on all of these knobs labeled "AC" and you HAVE to have cold air blowing in order for the car to move at all." or other factually incorrect statements, but said with confidence to her VERY large audience, and its like wow, she is wrong and now all of these people believe her, and now also hate it. This culture exists in every. single. community. If I go play a video game, failing to understand the actual mechanics of the game, then blaming the game for my faults, thats annoying to listen to. Its like if you search up a recipe, dont follow the recipe, then proceed to claim the recipe was bad. /r/ididnthaveeggs "I didn't have potatoes, so I substituted rice. I didn't have paprika, so I used another spice. I didn't have tomato sauce, I used tomato paste' A whole can, not a half a can--I do not like to waste. A friend gave me the recipe, she said you couldn't beat it! There must be something wrong with her --I couldn't even eat it."
@@SamTuffmanSurely you're smart enough to realize that your comment is gatekeeping. Linux DOES need better behavior for noob users, and even if people "ask dumb questions", that's no excuse to be condescending in support forums. Windows doesn't need a manual, why are you blaming people for not reading Linux documentation?
@@OrchidAlloy The only reason you understand how to use Windows is because you have used it for years. A BRAND new user who has never touched the operating system before struggles to do anything. For example, my father who has never touched a windows machine, and only used OSX all his life, has zero idea how to make file, name a file, even install a program, or do basically anything, and he has to ask me for help, or.................consult the forums and help pages pre-written. Amazing. Im sorry to break the news, buddy. If you type help in the windows search bar, there is an entire app for helping new users. Just as there is for linux. There are microsoft support pages, just as there is for linux. The problem is not that its "unfriendly", but its that you refuse to relearn things you already know, which is okay! Its difficult and frustrating to rewire your brain for things you already know. The point of my comment was not to discredit new users, but to draw parallels between the thousands of other niche, enthusiastic communities, that linux is NOT as unfriendly as people think. I am all for people learning, there are tools for that. But people just have a refusal to learn. Even despite all that, I have asked dumb questions before, we all have, and generally people will just ignore you, or ask you questions like, "Did you bother googling this before posting" or "Did you read the man and/or wiki page first" as these things have already been explained dozens of times. The only time I have ever seen blowback, is if you proudly say something is wrong, which has happened in **literally every community ever that has existed**, which is what I was saying in the previous comment. There is nothing stopping you from downloading Ubuntu, or even mint or manjaro, and using that without any issues, other than the refusal to learn. "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
@@SamTuffman, You are just confirmation of these words
Месяц назад
@@OrchidAlloy Windows doesn't need a manual, because the way people troubleshoot it are: 1) It's broken, I won't use it. 2) Reinstall and hope it fixes itself. 3) Get the computer to a service shop.
When I saw the title, I wasn't familiar with the phrase "daily driver", and thought that for the challenge they'd write a Linux device driver each day.
Thank you for the supercut, I had watched parts of mutahar’s video, but seeing other views and opinions is helpful cause I likely wouldn’t have searched much more beyond my common yt sphere to find them otherwise
I think the biggest problem with the Linux community is that they vastly overestimate how much time the average (or even 99th percentile) person spends, or is willing to spend, on a desktop computer.
Windows has stayed alive because of it. Most people have an end goal for using a computer, they want to do that pretty much immediately upon having installed their OS. With AI however I foresee a lot of people like me who don't even see using windows as an alternative anymore and suddenly the incentive to learn a bit more about Linux is there.
It was less "I dont have any friends" and more "I myself dont really play any multiplayer games because i prefer single player". I myself have a couple friends but i rarely play any multiplayer games with them because i quite frankly dont find much enjoyment in those. The ones i do have interest in are either local only or dont have an anticheat in place that blocks linux.
I most definitely do have friends, and I do use Arch (BTW). It's mainly that most multiplayer games are too violent for my tastes, but TF2 with sillygibs works amazingly on Linux (sillygibs isn't required :p)
The vibe I'm getting from the end part and the comment section is "if this was only one more year later" or "I wish this would be a yearly thing". Which is amazing, it's a signal from the type of people that take constructive criticism and build beautifully on top of it. In that sense, it'd be really neat to see an alliance form to iron out all these kinks. Dunno, call it something like "1MY" short for "1 more year" or something. I believe in you, boys! PS: Never tried Linux outside some very narrow usecases before but I'd be so down to port my rig onto it if only video editing & gaming were a smooth experience
I think both are perfectly acceptable. DaVinci Resolve runs natively on Linux. ProtonDB gets more and more games every week. I've heard people say those things for around 8 years now, and there have been absolute massive improvements between then and now. But people don't like discomfort and will keep using every excuse to not move over. I scrolled down just a little bit on this comments section and somebody literally explicitly commended their experience on Linux being painless in regards to gaming on Steam.
afaik Resolve (my preferred tool as well) has some codec limitations but yeah, it's great to hear that BlackMagic actually dug into Linux, kudos to them@@Cobalt985
Gaming on linux is basically perfect now thanks to Proton. Video editing is possible with certain software, like Olive, OpenShot, Pitivi, etc. Even Blender can do video editing, though it has a hard learning curve to use for that stuff.
16:57 "This is proposing a command that does nothing except tell the user not to use it" While that's an accurate description, I would *still* argue it's a good feature Like it or not Linux is viewed as a monolith by non users and having two entirely separate ways to get basic stuff like installing done is not intuitive to new-comers... (yes they can go research which to use, no that's not really a solution, it just moves the roadblock to a different place and the more hurdles you have to jump the less inviting it all feels)
I find it bothersome that the same people who keep an elitist air around them for using Linux over Windows, would become hostile once you do make the switch and ask for help, as if you're supposed to know everything. I've done this in 2021 and the community is just crazy. I still occasionally use Linux but only on some cloud machines. I do hope one day we'll get to the point where Nvidia works just as good as AMD on Linux, because I'm sure as hell not jumping ship just for the operating system.
@@dreaper5813 Well, enjoy your struggles, then. Other people have more important things in life to focus on than what hardware is compatible with their specific selection of distro, or what distro is more suitable for their workflow. You go ahead and be the toxic Linux fanboy you clearly aspire to be, and everyone else will just continue using actual mainstream OSes that they don't have to think about while they do their work.
The amount of times someone in this video said something like “well why would you do it like that?” Because most users just don’t know. For the most part, Windows works without a hitch almost every time. So users need little to no tech knowledge to use it So when someone tries to learn Linux don’t blame the user for not knowing
@@anomic-crno but when you get a massive wall of text for everything you do you start to ignore massive walls of text. It's called alarm fatigue. When the 7th massive unformated wall of text suddenly has very important information it is easy to see why someone would do that. Like the person in the video said, there are tools that developers can use to bring attention to text and it is a failing that they didn't.
@@Tuxedosam. it also honestly feels to me like its a failure that it could even ever get this far, like how the fuck in a very normal very standard install attempt (at least if youre coming from outside of lixus) going to end in the os deleting major parts of itself
I used Ubuntu about 10 years ago as a school Technician, it wasn't a great experience, but trying it again during lockdown, it was so much better. I'm sure there's some Improvements that have been made in response to this challenge. And that's a good thing.
@16:57 I find it hilarious that the things Linus is talking about with the Linux community is perfectly demonstrated in the next 30 seconds. "You're wrong!" "That doesn't happen!" "That's not what that means!" etc, etc, etc. Discounting someones direct experiences just because you haven't encountered them is a massive detriment to adoption of Linux with the wider audience. I personally try Linux every 3-5 years to see how it's progressing, and I'm overdue at this point. But the last time I tried was just before the pandemic, and I've never had as many crashes or freezes and lockups in my life, then with Linux. Tried multiple distros etc. The community responses were pretty much what you would expect, toxic, no patience, lots of insults and passive aggressive replies to questions. When we read a message or prompt and misunderstand it's meaning, then it's worded wrong. Saying that Linus is not understanding the meaning behind words in regards to Linux is not his fault, it's a lack of experience.
> Discounting someones direct experiences just because you haven't encountered them is a massive detriment to adoption of Linux with the wider audience. Correcting someone's blatant misinterpretation of provided information is hardly what I'd call detrimental. Linus sees "Unofficial", reads it as "Unsupported", and interprets that as "Doesn't work on my distro", when it actually means that that version isn't explicitly maintained by the developers. It's not the most unreasonable mistake to make, but it also isn't the most reasonable mistake to make either. Even in software terms, "support" has more than one meaning, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for OBS to be providing instructions for how to run the software if it wasn't supposed to work.
@@Omnizoathe point still stands that correcting it on a stream or video misses the point that the language used to communicate that idea is failing if someone is reading it and getting the wrong impression. For Windows users, "Unofficial" might as well say "Stay away" because a lot of these projects end up kind of just sucking compared to official projects.
@@Omnizoa "Linus sees "Unofficial", reads it as "Unsupported", and interprets that as "Doesn't work on my distro", when it actually means that that version isn't explicitly maintained by the developers." So Linus was actually right, as if he had an issue with the unofficial version he couldn't get support from the developers...which to most people would mean it is unsupported. At that point is it worth trying the unofficial version when if you have a problem you can't get help with it?
@@Omnizoa You're using a different meaning of the word "unsupported". You mean "it won't work". Linus meant "it might work but it might not and there's nobody to help me if it doesn't". He's not too stupid to realize that the command for his distro would not even be mentioned on the site if it just plain old didn't work ever.
"Empathetic for Linus" Linus: *doesn't know how to refresh* Meanwhile the reacters: "THE REFRESH BUTTON IS THERE! YOU ONLY NEED TO NAVIGATE THROUGH THIS 4 SIMPLE STEPS"
The part about the hardware with all the linux fans going "Oh no, don't use Goxlr and nvidia gpus, you should buy this and that" made me cringe very badly. If anyone thinks people have the money to replace their extremely expensive components for their "open source perfection" they should take a look how much these products cost and what is the average income, because no one will spend 500$+ to replace their perfectly functional setup on windows.
@@Omnizoawindows and Mac are different hardware. This is just running another OS on the same hardware. The Linux community don't want adoption, it's the last thing they want
telling me i should change from nvidia to amd would just make me stop bothering to install linux and revisit it if i ever switch to amd for an unrelated reason. such useless advice
Then ask Nvidia, the actual company that makes the driver to do a better job. If i lose access to my canon printer on a new windows os version, it's not the fault of MS. That's on the Canon corporation.
I've been patiently waiting for at least 10 years now to have a really easy and nice user experience on Linux while not having to sacrifice all of my games. I'll try again this year to see how it goes
I get second hand embarrassment from these reactions. A lot of these Linux content creators blame Linus (the new user) for not immediately knowing the ins and outs of Linux, and making mistakes, and the entire purpose of the challenge was to show real world usage of popular Linux distros at the hands of newcomers. This LTT challenge is better than the highly controlled environment Linux tubers create when reviewing a distro. It creates this feedback loop that prevents desktop Linux from being truly user friendly.
The thing is, when you change your os, you don't just immediately do it, you research before. While I don't blame him for the pop os bug (pop os is really bad since system 76 started cosmic) the apt vs pacman issue is really stupid.
The problem is that many of the problems he encountered would not have happened if he did some small research before switching. What beginner goes into a different os blind?@@H-Lambda-
I don't think I would actually😅. Windows is the standard, I know how it works. If it wasn't I would probably have a very hard time installing and uninstalling software. It is so intuitive under linux (to me) but using a browser just feels wrong to me.@@H-Lambda-
I guess it just comes down to this, Do you think Linux should eventually become a Windows replacement or a badge of office for computer nerds, it's one or the other
Like hey as a hobbies tool or a dev only thing sure random modern hardware not working isn’t a deal breaker but if it ever wants to be the windows replacement so many fucking people seem to want it to be then it needs to do better
Oh yeah, sure. Just like it doesn't happen on Windows where you can lose access to your hardware because drivers are not updated to a new version of the OS (looking at you Canon printers). But yeah sure let's blame the linux community when it's the hardware company at fault. There are many old quirks and attitudes that can be problematic in the Linux community but hardware support that's not. That's the elephant in the room.
Well, it's worded quite badly. But in essence the issue *does* lie with the hardware manufacturer not providing software for an OS that is not Windows. Since then, the community has actually put in the effort to make GoXLR work on Linux. That is to say without any support from TC-Helicon.
that's what the releases section is for, the developer is supposed to provide a build for end users to download. if you're trying to download source code either you're doing it wrong or the developer didn't do their job, or it's a python/shellscript.
The Linux community needs big-time normies to make videos like these. So many Linux users have no idea how normal people use computers. The KDE dev not realizing the refresh button was way too hidden in dolphin or not realizing people with large monitors can't see many UI elements in plasma until Linus pointed it out shows how large a Linux dev's blindspot can be on usability for normal people. The fact he took the criticism well and understood it at least gives me hope. "Well I do some esoteric commands in CLI I read on a forum 5 years ago and it works for me" is not an acceptable answer for a guy who just wants his computer to work, so hopefully the strides Linux has made in the past couple years continues on the right path.
When they say "obs-studio has a flatpak and snap" what they really meant was that the desktop environment's app store is going to have them with a little download button, the same way Luke was able to install obs, not necessarily that you need to know what flatpak or snap is or means.
@@ryanstewart531but you need to understand their jargon to understand what they mean. Saying "just install it this easy way" in some indecipherable jargon that says anything but that is neither easy nor helping.
@@tobylegion6913Yeah I quit trying Linux (Pop!_OS) because whenever I ran into an issue and I searched for a solution, I had to do even more research to understand that solution. And when it wouldn’t work I had no idea whether I did something wrong, whether the solution offered was wrong, or if there simply was no solution (e.g. hardware not being compatible). It’s like having to learn a new language, and while I’m pretty eager to learn new languages, I don’t want to have to do that just to use my computer comfortably.
I like that the answer to most of the problems is "He has the wrong hardware" So if you want to switch from Windows to Linux step 1 is pick distro and step 2 is buy the correct hardware for it? Sure you can't blame Linux or its developers or the community for proprietary hardware/software but buy different computer is NOT a solution. If you own the right computer Linux is user friendly but if you have the wrong computer Linux is for developers only MEANS Linux is for developers only.
They're talking about external audio devices here, not the computer itself (aside from maybe the AMD/Nvidia GPU option, but to be fair both of those work for most things).
@@LewisCostin still while thats fair, if linux ever wants to be this open source widly used tool it needs to have less random ass issues that force people to change hardware. Give windows shit, it deserves it, but I can use the same sound card in windows 98 to 11 with few to any bugs, im able to use this massive range of stuff
@@SkyTreeStudio not true, I know of hardware that no longer works on any modern OS, but thats not even Microsofts fault. Plenty of software too that wont work unless you run the ancient OS in a VM. And also, Linux doesnt need to be a popular platform. It's not asking for money.
@@LewisCostin I mean I never said everything works did I? Yeah plenty of old shit doesn’t work anymore and while I’m glad Linux supports some stuff it doesn’t support others And I’m not saying it has to be big, but the community on large seems to want it to be as big if not bigger than windows and if they want that there are fatal issues with Linux that it would need to fix long before that could happen
For everyone who is new to Linux and mainly wants to play Games, all i can say i am running Nobara 39 with KDE Desktop and i f*ing love it, just installed it, Nvidia driver worked out of the box, Steam was already installed, login to steam, download game and you are ready to go. I am having better FPS and i also can stream my Gameplay without any Problems. And my System is old. (i7 6700k, RTX2060, 32GB DDR4-2133)
As I am learning Linux on Raspberry Pi400, this is the most valuable video I have seen recently. My point is not to put down Linuss challange in any way, but this video response compilation ended up so much more valuable. From many little things like different package managers apt and pacman, more explanation about why nvidia has issues, to just plainly giving a list to Linux youtubers. I have installed Ubuntu Linux for older people before, who just need to access Gmail and Facebook, but never used it as my own daily driver. Windows has many benefits like large software base targeted to Windows systems, but its becoming a growing privacy nightmare. Last but not least for a long time I thought that driver support for obscure hardware is one of Linux benefits, but the story seems to be more complicated.
This noob-shaming is a big reason why a lot of enthusiast will never switch to linux. Anything that requires a hack/workaround for it to just match windows/mac os functionality is simply not good enough. I understand that support for linux has grown immensely and will grow with the steamdeck as well but it’s still an incomplete experience.
Like sure… go your way and use whatever you want. No one is pointing gun to your head. But if linus put himself to challenge but then not accepting the challenging aspect of the said challenge, then why even slander unnecessarily? Like with PopOS, one time he got error in gui, then he got a blazing warning where he had to write whole sentence to go forward. Even if at that point people don’t get a simple idea to google before nuking themselves, then sometimes criticism is valid. People didn’t born with Linux knowledge, that MEANS there is a healthy and helpful community out there
@@thecompanioncube4211 yeah linux is hard to use, that's why I don't use it. But Linus is a money-hungry, dishonest, gifting soyboy that doesn't deliver anything of value to the tech world except misinformation wrapped up in "entertainment value". Screw him and his company. Only some of his staff have any redemptive value.
The snarky comments and the blaming of the end user (Linus) in this video from some of the people reacting just show why Linux still see as not user friendly, Linus basically acts like the normal day-to-day user that has no experience with Linux and was willing to try it, even if he did some questionable things there most of his concerns or mistakes was something that, from my perspective, a normal user could and probably would do, having bad UX/UI design has nothing to do with the user.
Hey I just found the video, just wanted to say that I went in thinking it'd be a smash cut of streamers and etc reacting but the little Linux bubbles explaining it further for the Non-Linux using Layman was super neat. Really well done!
Agreed, this is a really well done mash up.
I was about to write a comment saying basically thing. This is how you do a supercut.
Totally agreed, this was so well done!!
i was about to say the same, i was like the dude who made this video have my total respect, I'm watching this and learning, since I'm new to Linux (i use mint cinnamon) I'm entertained and learning things at the same time, and the video is well put together, really useful since the only experience i had with Linux was trough WSL on windows for a software engineering course I'm on, that's what made confident enough to switch to Linux, Sir thank you for the educating bubbles and the good video, I'm definitely subscribing!
"maybe in the future we'll have HDR support"
*me, with plasma 6 beta and a tear in my eye*: we finally have it, guys 😭
:')
What about VRR?
VRR should already be available, iirc.
I don't have a vrr monitor, so idk how it works, but I know that there is also a page in the arch wiki about it.
Maybe someone who knows more than me about it could tell us :)
@@_marvix_1088 VRR is here on Plasma, Gnome haven't merged it yet
@@tablettablete186vrr is supported in wlroots and kwin for Wayland. Gnome is... Being gnome though
I just love how the immediate reaction to "it is not working" from 90% of the linux community is "it works fine for me"
That's 90% of literally any technical support board. Go build a time machine and travel your ass back to the official Bethesda support forums in November of 2011 and you tell me 90% of the fuckwits on there weren't going "You must be playing the game wrong, Skyrim works perfectly for me."
@@Omnizoalike that’s such bs. Same thing when you have a broken iPhone and someone else say they never had an issue thus, whatever problem you having isn’t real.😂
EVEN about friends and online gaming, lmao
"You have friends that you want to play with?"
"Works fine for me"
The difference is that everything they said that to was 100% user error. If they took the time to read documentation then it wouldn't have been that hard in the first place.
@@austinm8823if you have to read a bunch of documentation to play a video game on one system and no documentation to play it on another, which system do you think the average person is going to choose?
The best thing I heard in this video was at the end. "We hard core linux users need to take a step back and listen to what the new users are saying to us. Like Lainus and Luke.". For this - respect.
Trying to install Steam and accidentally uninstalling your entire desktop and renderer is too perfect
@Slukke yeah bud? Most people won’t entirely read, much less fully understand, an error message their computer throws. They’ll assume it’s telling them to do something to help them accomplish their goal, so they’ll scan to the part where it says “type *this* to keep going”. There’s no world in which someone should have a suspicion that the official app they’re downloading from their official “App Store” has a chance of bricking their machine. People don’t see it as a warning, but as a series of hoops to jump through, since the OS holds their hand through doing it.
It's a pop os issue. I don't get why people say pop is good, it's really bad. It's meant to be for beginners but it breaks waaay too easily.@@zgrb
@Slukke I am a software engineer. I use Fedora every day. Most people would not understand the consequences those messages portray. MacOS and Windows simply will not allow you to delete or end processes that will brick your machine. This is good design. It’s also good that OSes exist where you CAN do that. Most Linux distros are those. They will not fill the same role and, therefore, not have the same adoption as MacOS or Windows. It’s been a month bud give it a rest
@Slukke
Please give me a shout when Steam uninstalls Windows Explorer or Finder
Like damn how does that even happen?
The crazy thing is how much easier this would be just a year later.
That kinda was the point, showing that it is not as straightforward of a process as it could be. As a result a lot of work has been done on various fronts to (at least imo) make the appropriate steps to make it more accessible.
Linux... always a year away from better.
As a non-Linux user, I'm genuinely curious: what's changed since Linus made these videos?
@@angrycharizard For gaming, the biggest change is Proton and Wine have improved by leaps and bounds since the Steam Deck shipped. If a game runs from Steam, there is a pretty good chance it will run without tinkering. Anti-cheat adoption is better, but is still a problem for more than a few games. Non-Steam games are better than they were, but some require tinkering if they are not very popular.
It is still not a no compromises experience, but is getting closer and closer.
Printer setup wouldn't be much different honestly. And I think their troublesome hardware still requires weird workarounds or "random github repos".
Sadly i have to agree there is a mentality on the Linux community of "you should've have known better" when the correct mindset for every dev out there should be "how can i make it easier"
Im a dev myself and in my line of work i always have to write idiot-proof software because they interface with heavy duty machinery. It's utterly unacceptable that if we have an accident because the worker entered nonsense into a field to blame the operator, the field should be data validated and should be as friendly as possible.
I see Linux stuck between wanting to be adopted, but at the same time they don't want to lose their indentity as an exclusive club that had to work hard for their achievements😅
@Slukkelinux users are wrong
Millions of people use Linux as a daily driver OS. You only hear the annoying, loud minority when things like this happen. The vast majority of users just go about their lives and don’t treat Linux like some sort of Holy Grail of being a nerd. It’s an OS, and a tool, nothing more. It has things I like more than Windows, so I use it. But I keep Windows around just in case, which is one of the most popular ways to use it.
@SlukkeLinux users will be told that in no uncertain detail next time they miss a harmful phrase in a EULA they didn't fully read. Information overload and poor signalling is bad design.
@Slukke Keep being irrelevant with that attitude or change.
@Slukke Thing is that Linus comes from a windows background and we are all used to not reading error messages because usually that means at worst, the thing we are trying to do, doesn't work but there will be no consequences to the OS by doing so. What the Pop OS devs should've done is make the important parts be written in big and bold letters so that only the biggest idiot would ignore it (which they did afterwards from what I've understand). Yes, Linus was at fault but he wouldn't have been the only one making that mistake and it's important for the devs to tell the users more clearly that they are about to make a huge mistake.
What the Linux community (which I am a part of) really need to stop doing is blaming the end user for not using the software right. If Linux should ever hope to become mainstream then it needs to work with idiots who have no idea what they are doing. I see so many times people point criticism against a problem in Linux and getting the answer "Well why would you do it like that?" or "Well that is how it is supposed to work."
Stop it.
I think becoming mainstream may actually be the worst nightmare to the Linux community.
I feel like open source software (including Linux) suffers from a major UI/UX design mistreatment. Even stuff like KDE has a weird and intuitíve UI, and the more niece the application gets, the worse its UI.
Some of it has to do with Linux devs weird fascination of the terminal, which in some cases is fine, but the terminal is no the be all end all of using a computer and there is a reason Apple sells their products and part of it is intuitive UI/UX.
@@putzakBased. But this is changing tho. Like the New COSMIC desktop seems to have a pretty cool UI, GNOME is also ok looking. But yeah I totally see your point there
It is impossible to design software that everyone is able to use, especially as Linus showed, some people are unable to read brightly highlighted instructions written in plain English. It's folly to even try. There are tons of grannies out there who are unable to use Windows, which is already dumbed down to the point of near-uselessness for advanced users.
I don't think that's the point. Nobody shits on Windows for having a low skill floor. Nobody. We all shit on it for the lack of complex tools to do complex tasks (so the low skill ceiling). They are critizising the skill floor which might be too high on Linux compared to Windows. This is valid criticism and it's reflected by the small userbase we have. Ideally we want a low skill floor so my mom can use it for simple tasks, and a high skill cealing so devs and sysadmins can create automated tools for super complex tasks.
Linux gaming was basically NOTHING just a few years ago. Only Valve Proton, Wine, DXVK, etc getting to the stage they have gotten to *recently* have opened up the Windows gaming world to Linux users. This has exposed other areas where the Linux gaming environment suffers (looking at you, nVidia) and there will be increased focus on improving those things.
Give it some time and it will be amazing. Already is, to an extent.
"Fuck nvidia..." Torvalds, Linus
@@edR_mcdWell not anymore
As someone who very recently switched to Daily Driving Linux (Mint, specifically), I've had almost no issues transitioning over from Windows, aside from some workarounds with some games. It's been damn near painless
Well it would seem Nvidia is finally seeing where the winds is blowing and have decided to improve support soooooo…eh. Better times next year, hopefully.
@@liesdamnlies3372 As a long time Linux user I can tell you that Nvidia still sucks when using Wayland and X11 still has a few issues. Their last two major driver releases, 535 and 545 have been an absolute S show. They really need to start taking the platform seriously. If the driver mess over the last 12 months was on Windows Nvidia would have gone bankrupt by now.
Linux users: "Why haven't you transitioned to linux yet? You'll be glad to finally leave Windows"
Also Linux users: "Why are you having a problem? Are you too stupid to figure it out on your own?"
Stack overflow question: How do I do this thing?
Answer: Read the manual
@@Tuxedosam. they need to make AI support for linux. that it will help with all the "stupid" question. Because like linus showed people are not the same way smart.
oh so true
@@ALFABETAS999 this is actually a brilliant solution for actually useful AI integration - have a truly intelligent chatbot that runs on your hardware natively in the background which has full knowledge of the distro and can help you troubleshoot your way through things when you have no access to a network, for example.
@@Tuxedosam. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you Google a problem and the first result is the manual, why the heck would you opt to ask somewhere else? Someone already went through the trouble of writing it down, it's just lazy to repeat the same ask over and over again. The exception are threads where the person says they've already tried multiple things and nothing helped, otherwise it's completely legit to suggest the manual. If nothing else, the user might learn what the things are called and how they interact, allowing them to formulate their question better.
In the second part of the reaction, some Linux reactors started saying "It's obvious! Duh!" sort of argument not understanding that Linus was just behaving exactly like a normal end user would behave: every software I am running easily on windows can be run on Linux distro.
they also were just... wrong in some cases. the github thing for example, when you do this on windows, you get the file (i just checked this to make sure) so no, this wasn't microsoft's fault. Microsoft gives you the file you were asking for.
They also keep trying to hand wave the GoXLR thing away, one of them even tries to call it esoteric, and it's like ...no GoXLR is probably the most popular piece of hardware used in the streaming/podcasting ecosystem, other than maybe corsair's streamdeck.
It's weird in the first video they were a lot more understanding and in the second video it's like the first one never happened, or there was some hurt feelings in the community so the content creator's felt they had to be tougher on him? Not sure there.
I get that. It's just frustrating when linux distros get points docked off for not being obvious, when windows gets a pass since everything windows does is inherently obvious because most of the population has used windows since early childhood.
In a lot of cases "it's not obvious" just boils down to "it's not like windows".
@@ashleydavis3318 I beg to differ. I as a child could use windows 20 years back as an 8 year old without having to learn windows. It was never possible for me to use Linux until college CSE. So, it's a bad UX/UI or that Linux was never meant for the masses!?
@@codedusting bruh
>they also were just... wrong in some cases. the github thing for example, when you do this on windows, you get the file (i just checked this to make sure) so no, this wasn't microsoft's fault. Microsoft gives you the file you were asking for.
@@ExarchGaming
So firefox behaves differently depending on operating system? I don't think so!
I just loved the point in LTTs video when he confirmed "Yes" and wiped out the system. Absolutely beautiful.
The biggest enemy to Linux adoption is the community IMO. Everyday you run into people who tell you "It's easy to switch" and "It functions the same as Windows" and "It's as simple as a couple clicks"(which I've seen some Linux RUclipsrs being guilty of as well) and people who believe them give Linux a try and run into problems and have a horrible impression of Linux because it was obviously not what they were promised.
You should never lure people in with the promise of perfection, because this isn't an ideal world and a perfect product does not exist (even Windows, while definitely more straightforward and unified than Linux, has some issues), and when people give you a chance and it was not exactly the same as you promised, they will have a bad impression of the product and will never give you a second chance to sell them the product.
Yeah, linux is many things but a windows clone is not one of them. Switching to linux means the user must change how they use a computer (to some extent) and learn the ecosystem
@@Anonymous4045true, the community is the problem.
I'm fairly computer literate and work in a technical field, and sometimes my kubuntu install pisses me off with some wildly unintuitive nonsense or a strange and difficult to research error
Like, I'm not at all hating, I love using Linux, but the way people act as if you can install Ubuntu (or whatever) and transition smoothly immediately from Windows is insane - if all you do is use a web browser and listen to music, sure, that's the case
@@Anonymous4045community is definitely the problem. Which is the reason i switched back to Windows 2 years ago. I would love to use Linux, since i use my Steam Deck a lot
I personally switched to Linux randomly because Windows pissed me off and it actually works great. Sure, there are some minor and major annoyances but overall i am super happy and with the really great customization you can make it feel almost like windows. Not in every way of cause but common tasks are pretty similar
Funny enough, after installing Garuda and looking at it's aliases, I've found an alias for apt get that tells Ubuntu users that that's not how things work on Arch. I suspect Linus wasn't the first or last one to try.🤣
Ah, I forgot about command aliases. Thanks for reminding me.
Garuda aliases? every linux shell has aliases, what are you talking about? :)
@@linuxrant Sure, but Garuda (and other distros probably) come pre-configured out of the box. I'm not sure if that particular alias was a default or (as I suspect) added by Garuda, thus I named the distro specifically.
@@Xaito its added by the garuda team. If you look at the file you will see a comment line that says "aliases that make things easier for user" or something like that. Its one of the reasons i love garuda. Its one of the few distros that goes out of the way to make it a REAL it just works system. You start it and boom. game runs, discord starts, obs functions, devises are configured 90% of the time. Its like a bunch of people went...huu....linux is great...but using it sucks. BING! I have an idea, lets fix that. I have been singing the praises of garuda since it dropped. love it. and im glad others are too.
@@Johndoe-176 Yes, I find it to be one of the best - if not the best - distro to get into desktop Linux. It does good stuff out of the box that a new user wouldn't even know he needed. For example I probably wouldn't gave tried using fish shell on my own, but I really appreciate it now.
"I don't have a friend group to play games with" - AVERAGE LINUX USER
I can translate it: Adults with adult friends. They have wife / husband, kids, maybe dogs, cats and who knows what. They are not playing PC games anymore. Sorry that you had to hear it from me first. :P
@@temp50 What are you yapping about
@dreaper5813 That's definitely not the "Average Linux user" lol
@dreaper5813
And what if you move away from those friends and still want to play games with them? 🙄
@dreaper5813
That's an extremely elitist attitude dude. And very warped. Someone with their phone in their face doesn't equate to someone who has a lot of friends online. Someone in our DnD group had to move away due to an emergency, so we moved to Discord to keep him included. One other person doesn't have a car, and another travels for work. So it's difficult to plan a way for all of us to meet up in person outside of our DnD sessions. We keep in touch through text in between sessions. If you're lucky enough to keep in touch with your friends and loved ones in person that's great, but it's an uncommon situation.
I also met a couple people through online groups that I became pen pals with, and a few others I just talk to every now and then, on and off.
Also the people who "have their phone in their face" and "are the most miserable" may have anxiety or depressive issues. It's not the phone making them depressed or anxious, they're on the phone to avoid talking/interacting with people like you. 😂
"well actually ☝️🤓" - Linux Tubers
🤓 true
Btw love ur vids
User: Pop_OS, install Steam.
Pop_OS: I'd rather rip my face off than become a toy.
Finally, an OS with principles.
Wdum, steam and valve is one of the best large companies. They practically open sourced hammer with how much documentation it has, and they let you make your own mods and stuff.
I once bricked an Ubuntu system while trying to watch Netflix. That was like day two of me trying out a Linux distribution.
I didn’t give up that easily, but I had to erase my system every time as issue came up because, as a noob, I didn’t know what else to do.
Don’t feel bad. I’m not a noob but I too resort to the nuclear option sometimes. Rarely, but it happens.
I tried to get the finger print on my touchpad working but I somehow locked myself out of my system in like 4 hours of installing. So I reinstalled lmao
Oh man, I got locked out of sudo and couldn't install ANYTHING, had to reinstall got the same problem and somehow learned about init=/bin/bash in grub and edited the GOD DAMN sudoers file somehow. It was pretty painful.
@@RenderingUser I did that before, biometrics is notoriously fucky to get working
Nuclear option is always the best option when you don't even know what the system should look like unbroken.
good job adding the context pop ups, its gonna help alot of people.
As someone who isnt really interested in getting into linux, I found this whole video great, seeing a bunch of real users react and understand what certain problems where and even critiquing some simple mistakes that were made was really interesting!!
I feel like some of the linux reactors in this video are missing the forest for the trees when saying things like "it's not linux's fault" that nvidia or github aren't well supported/intuitive: the challenge is about how easy it [was, at the time of the video] for a windows user to switch over to linux without preexisting knowledge or connections to give them a hand. Its not about assigning blame, its about taking a look at what sorts of problems and obstacles a new user might expect to encounter.
Similarly, the goxlr thing: sure, maybe the device or software or whatever doesn't support linux, and it is unreasonable to expect the linux devs to make everything under the sun work for their system... but if someone already _has_ that device or software that works fine on their current setup, it still presents a legitimate obstacle to switching. It's not linux's fault, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem for the people who use it on windows and are considering switching operating systems.
To use an (admittedly rather dark) analogy: it's not South Korea's fault that North Korea will shoot anyone who tries to cross the border because they would much rather live there, but that doesn't make the issue suddenly disappear, and it'd be irresponsible to try to convince someone to attempt the move without informing them of that issue
While what you say is true, the issue is that Linus and most people should not expect two different OS's to support all the same stuff, they are different by nature, Linux should have reaserch about all hid necessay Softwares and hardware compability before-hand and tell people to do the same because it's a basic concept to grasp. Linux is different, therefore I should research about it.
@@murillodaniel9208 This is a good approach for a "tech-y" user to make, but I don't think it's reflective of the real world situation for most Windows users. They come from an ecosystem where they can expect basically every PC software they've ever heard of to run fine on their version of Windows, provided its not decades old and they click on the correct download link, they can expect basically every PC gadget they came across to be more or less plug-and-play (maybe requiring a software download, but again, that's just following the provided URL and running an installer), etc etc.
You say that "its a basic concept to grasp. Linux is different, therefore I should research about it", but for the average Windows user that just uses a browser, file system, the office suite and whatever specific applications they use for work or leisure, that's not really the case.
One of the major selling points of the OS is that you don't _need_ to do much if any research for the most part, since Windows has a big enough market share that its rarer for a user to encounter something that _doesn't_ work fine with Windows (unless it has prominent apple branding and whatnot). The equivalent of skimming through the instruction manual on a new appliance, following the standard patterns of other software, and learning as you go based on UI prompts/options is fine for the majority of users most of the time for most of the hard/software they want to use.
It all comes down to what people are used to, and ATM, Windows users enjoy the privilege of not really having to worry about things not being compatible (unless they're looking at more esoteric things, in which case they're more likely to be an advanced user and more comfortable with researching and troubleshooting and whatnot), so switching to an OS where you _do_ need to mindful of such things presents a legitimate barrier to entry.
Again, none of that is in any way Linux's fault, and you could argue that such a mindset is unfair or whatever, but it's still the way things currently are for Windows users, and the video is about how hard it would be for them to switch operating systems, so it is still entirely valid for the context of the video. Plus, even if Linus had done the research and discovered his hardware was incompatible, it would still be a valid concern, because having to spend time and money on replacement hardware is still a potential pain point for prospective pilgrims
@@Zeppongola The point is, some things aren't really fixable... We should put the blame where it belongs, the companies that make these products. An incredible amount of stuff is already reverse engineered. We should inform users that it doesn't work, but also why it doesn't work. Yes, saying that's it's not the fault of Linux doesn't help the end user, but if we never start pressuring these companies to make products with Linux in mind, the end user simply won't be helped. The only way to do that is for people who want to use Linux to be aware of where to direct their anger to.
It literally doesn't work differently between MacOS and Windows.
And yeah, if you run very expensive hardware that simply doesn't work on the other thing you want to use, you're bound to have to make a compromise. Not using Linux could be that. I can't tow a trailer with my car, it doesn't have a hitch and it's like tiny. I don't have the money to buy anything else, so it'll have to make do as is.
@@break1146 But that _isn't_ the point; that's a _separate_ point, born from a stance that- while perfectly valid in general -doesn't match the content they were reviewing. It's a video discussing their experience switching over, what they found easy and the barriers to entry involved, not a call to arms or a criticism against Linux. If you want to argue that the video _should have been_ a call to arms or pointing out where the blame lies, go ahead, but that's a separate discussion; as things are, the video is "thinking of switching to Linux? Here are some things to be aware of" rather than "Here's some things Linux isn't able to do well because of _these_ companies; if you want to use Linux in the future, make your voices heard".
Even if the reviewers have the same stance you're championing, they need to separate that from their review, otherwise they're not discussing the points the authors make in the right context. It would be like a vegetarian watching a video where somebody rates a bunch of dishes, and acts like the reviewer is talking gibberish whenever they give a meat dish a nonzero score
It’s not enough to replicate the existing experience, Lindows already tried that.
There has to be something to draw people in **and** it has to do what they already want.
Privacy and freedom aren’t the answer otherwise people wouldn’t be using Google software and you, comment reader, wouldn’t be using RUclips.
I’ve never seen a format exactly like this before, at least not this well done. It’s cool to see the live reactions and then hear consensus from several people. Makes me more confident about the conclusions
Thanks for this video it was fun to see the different takes all mashed together. I didnt do a reaction to the 4th video of the challenge now I wish I had so you could have included it here 😎
Thanks for doing what you did!
I really liked your take on the whole mess. I went back and looked over your entire set of videos. I enjoy your channel a lot--well worth a follow for sure!
thanks@@Doesntcompute2k! I really appreciate the feedback and thanks for subscribing
Heya, new to this channel and just wanted to compliment your supercut style! I'd seen some other channels do reactions by just smashing together all reactors playing at once in various corners where they're constantly talking over each other in a chaos of emotions. The extra effort you put into curating the best points being made goes a long way; this was an excellent vid.
Thanks for the comment!
26:40 it's worth noting that the last of the mp3 patents expired in the late 2010s. This is why mp3s support is only just becoming a thing.
What they need to understand is that when Linus makes a point that seems in bad faith or incorrect, it is often to illustrate that most normies would probably come to that conclusion, therefore proving that it is unfit for mainstream use.
Yup and Linus is not a normie Windows user he's a smart cookie.
Yeah, that's what really struck me, is how hostile people got when he did something wrong, because I can totally see someone, even L2 Helpdesk level, make that mistake in a blink, because they don't read the documentation fully, and don't expect stuff to break that easily. Working in a Windows enviroment, you have to work pretty fucking hard to break the OS as catastrophically as you can easily do in Linux (Though sometimes Microsoft does it for you instead, how nice of them)
Pretty much. I'm no dunce myself but i tried to get linux to work for me on existing hardware I had but in order to try and get it working in my work environment requried more work. It wasted my time again and again. It's not that I couldn't eventually figure it out or that x or y product wasn't supported it was that if it takes me 5 days to figure out how to get PaperCut to work because it needs java and installing java is a nightmare because there are 7 different possible java posibilities and they don't all work with my distro and my version of papercut only to find after ive spent that amount of time and papercut doesnt want to play ball with the work servers because the login authentication or whatever the hell the difference is aaaaand thats when you give up.
Linus is showing that if you don't find the puzzle fun, forcing someone to operate a puzzle when they want to make a document and print it is going to put people off.
And ofc they blame it on the user(linus), not surprised lol
Yeah, Linus was going from a "follow the advice you keep seeing online of stop using windows and switch to Linux" and because the people giving that advice are so enthusiastic and will shut down any arguments to the opposite, the fact that a common refrain was "don't use Nvidia" was in the video, shows that it's not helpful advice when Nvidia is like 80% of the dGPU market.
He also used tutorials online, and most tutorials assume you're on Debian or Ubuntu and are using the terminal, probably why he went to the terminal in part 2 straight away, as that's probably the guide he found online.
Honestly, I think File manager developers should just add another prompt telling you the progress of the operation instead of hiding it somewhere in the app like a moving icon. Having a visible floating progress bar makes it easier to see if the file is still copying, compressing, etc.
KDE is a nightmare with this stuff. It's a powerful DE and very customizable, but the refresh button thing alone... these people telling you how to add a refresh button to the window... the moment you have to explain that? You've already lost.
@@spell105 funny thing is that they claimed that due to the exposure of Windows user since childhood, linux became hard to use for the average folks. Let me get this clear, I never studied Windows, I started using it with games when local Lan cafes became the norm. I never studied it but understood it. Maybe there's just the UX that is better to understand and made everything obvious to a newbie. Like for example, in Lan cafes, you usually just double click the shortcut in the desktop to start your game. That's just how it was since then. In Linux and most distros, you can't easily add shortcut in the desktop. Especially after installing a software. You either have to dig in some app drawer and find your app there or your app has a weird name like handbrake or GIMP instead of photo something or image something or video converter.
@@LynxxLancer People can whine about Windows all they want, and it is a mess - but Microsoft spends billions - and always has - on testing their shit against average consumers for ages, with proper testing methodology.
Fact is that Windows is easy as hell to use, they literally make it that way. Only Apple takes this to greater extremes.
They often do. Nemo does that.
Nautilus now does this in gnome 46. Also they finally let you click the directory you're in to edit the path as a string
"he can do this advanced thing but couldn't figure it this simple thing earlier..." Yeah, they literally just said it was 3 weeks later, he's had time to practice and study. You make fun of him for not paying attention then you don't pay attention immediately after.
also setting up a vm with gnome boxes or similar software can be easy
These reactions of "experts" explaining "that's not how that works. You just have to..." just shows how difficult onboarding can be.
They aren't experts; they're influencers like linus
The experts likely aren't making youtube videos
@@CaptainSunFlare bro Nicco (the blonde tips accent guy) is literally a KDE developer
@@rockifythis wich isnt the same as being distro developer...
If you're facing a user has never used Windows/MacOS before, you'll have the same reaction.
@@brlinThis is false. Children learn to use MacOS/Windows all the time in schools with no problems.
I wish this was an every 2 years challenge
Need new people every time though
@nnnik3595 Not necessarily. Given how little knowledge Linus and Luke would retain from playing with a distro for 1 month out of 2 years and the ongoing march of technology changing the game during that amount of time anyway doing the exact same challenge every two years would be a huge benefit to the gaming community I think. I already see comments here along the lines of 'if only they did this 1 year later'.
Hopefully they revisit the topic when Windows 12 launches at the very least.
@@tzuyd Well, since I often forget how to program after like 10 days without using a specific language I think they could do it every year or two and just forget everything they did.
I Wish That LTT Chalenge me on a Cage Fight
@@JuanGarcia-qd8igbut you still know how programming works
I'am a old time linux user and I found this video very funny. It's not easy to leave your comfort zone. The Nicco's face when the guy have realized manjaro didn't use apt package manager was a very funny part. 👍
I loved every bit of Nicco's reactions whenever he rejoiced or saddened at the look of KDE's (mis)use.
Yeah I'm still waiting for the package manager. Not one of them but THE package manager for linux which is part of the kernel and understands both kernel-space and user-space and cannot be replaced with any kind of homemade yet an other bullshit manager.
What a random time to upload this
To be honest, Linux was holding me back a while.
@BrodieRobertson just curious here, what Linux Distro do you prefer as a daily driver?
@@manuelrivera6778 I run Arch personally but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to everyone
@@OmnizoaLOL
@@manuelrivera6778The last time I looked in his channel, I believe it was a hyprland+arch setup(Fair warning: If you're new to linux, don't go with this). Hope it helps
That was a lot effort. Good job!
Thanks!
Lmao Muta calling "video editing" and "playing new games" a niche use case at the end is so delightfully out of touch. Like the whole Linux community.
Video editing is very niche, more people probably use photoshop than edit videos on their computers and actually using photoshop is also pretty niche.
@@DantesGrillmost students (in US and capitals of countries) nowadays are expected to know how to edit a video on their own. It is not niche.
i love Muta, but at the end of the day, he’s human
@@WingMaster562 Well then. That's another thing my CS classes didn’t teach me...
@@mix3k818 same here. They just commanded us to "figure it out", which is both good and bad
The thing with discord is that there *is* a flatpak, but discord's website only will offer you a deb and a tarball and no inexperienced linux user like Linus is going think to check for that separately
This comes up again with OBS, yes it's in the graphical package manager, but OBS's site gives command line instructions using apt.
almost every set of instructions I've found for installing Anything is 'enter this into the command line'. Not least because they don't start with 'download this thing using your package manager' but 'download this thing from our website using this link right next to the instruction'.
Will the Linux noob appreciate the usability avoidance system (sandbox) of flatbloat?
That's true and it's a issue, I wish most distros would come with a warning, telling the user to search for their apps on the store before trying to install through anywhere else.
@@murillodaniel9208People will read and understand that like they read and understand an HTTPS certificate error
They click the continue button until something works or breaks
I don't like the guy who showed up 3rd. While learning Linux I bricked my laptop 3 times and corrupted my project even more. It was a process and learning had to happen all throughout it. Mistakes and misconceptions are normal for beginners. That guy didn't seem to get it and seemed to think Linus was supposed to know everything right from the start
Totally agree, whilst they all start off understanding they get into the mindset of its a user problem, not understanding that's the Linux problem currently
@dreaper5813most people who today are interested in tinkering are already sold on Linux. The problem is that Windows has an iron grip on users who want to do the damn thing they want to do instead of troubleshoot or configure. I know people who have a nintendo switch and a laptop where they just play games on their switch and they just watch videos and stuff on their laptop because all of it just works out of the box, configuration ends at setting a password.
@dreaper5813maybe back then but today is different. For the vast majority of new Windows or MacOS users, the experience is really plug it in, turn it on, and go.
You can't brick something 3 times.
Many Linux users are like ninjas and we make ourselves invisible online. Which is bad, since when companies take numbers, we're not there and it seems only 2% of people use Linux and other 3% are "unknown" and another 1% are not even noticed.
We do show up in bug reports though. Which is good when a developer wants to develop their software and bad when they want to release a MVP and forget about it.
19:34 - well yeah that’s what people who don’t know anything about Linux expect. Which is the whole point of this challenge
You should not expect a complete different OS to work like another OS, same thing about Windows and MacOS. Changing OS is a big vhange and you should make your proper research, is that simple.
@@murillodaniel9208the point of the challenge was to assess if Linux was posed to push out Windows for gamers. That ultimately means appeal, and if the experience of migrating is not appealing, the answer is no.
And that's exactly the point Linus is trying make. He's just showing his experience on his transition to Linux. No one expect Linux to be an exact clone of Windows.
The compilation of all the Linux guys talking about not having a friend group is really funny 40:19
FR...
I mean, idk about you but I feel like most adults don't have a friend group of people who play video games. The little free time I do have to play games I would never be able to coordinate with all my friends to get on at the same time.
@@jamess.2491 Well as an adult with a friend group who do still hang out with each other and play games when we can't physically be around, I'm sorry but your situation isn't "most adults". At least anecdotally. We're all in our 30s, have careers and relationships, and still have time to game.
To each their own.
@@jamess.2491u can just find friends through playing games 👁 👄 👁
Haha yeah noticed that 😂
good editing. this gave me another perspective even though i watched the LTT videos and some of the reactions already because this supercut adds even more context and the reactions are well-placed and informational.
@19:32 aaaaaand he missed the point of the challenge and decided to get defensive over it
I think it is completely fair to have that expectation and is the reason why linux isnt so big, theres not enough support, its not fair to hold that against linux but... its the ecosystem we live in so it is fair to expect a solid experience similar to windows.
@@dreaper5813 LOL, too weak for change. Thanks for showing us the perfect example of why some Linux users are so tiring to deal with. You're just contributing to the reason why Linux desktop will never go mainstream.
@@lindenreaper8683 Another overuse of the word 'cope'. Are you people this lacking in imagination or are you @dreaper5813's alt account. You talk exactly as stupid as he does.
"And like I care about mainstream."
You're watching a video relating to LTT showing the experience a mainstream user would have switching to Linux. If you didn't care about the mainstream, why are you watching such videos? Do you just love torturing yourself by watching videos that you do not care about?
"I'm not whining. But slaves to Microsoft are. LOL"
You sure are whining a lot about Microsoft for someone not whining and not caring about the mainstream.
@@stephen01king Good, at least we won't have to deal with absolutely fucking illiterate morons.
I see your point, but I disagree that this is Linux's fault and so does Linus (see: his critique of Nvidia in this same video). As said, if you are trying to do something only a Mac can do and Windows fails at it, then that is not an indictment against Windows. If it's an indictment against anyone it's against developers not adding compatibility which is up to them personally. And I wouldn't even say this is an indictment. This is kind of an issue where the lack of compatibility pairs up with the lack of adoption which is because of a lack of compatibility. A big issue with Linux, but there is nothing Linux can do other than offer workarounds until developers adapt their software.
But the fact that Linux even has workaround solutions is actually a compliment to Linux, if something like this failed on Windows/Mac there is a good chance you would have no way of getting it to work. That Linux offers such solutions should be enough to draw people to use Linux for many usage cases. With a little bit of elbow grease you can get so many things to work fine on Linux, and this is not elitism either. I am genuine when I say that it's usually very simple, as with Wine for example.
I think the reason that more people don't adopt Linux is less about compatibility and more because people are used to the system they have and don't want to change it as doing so is a hassle, even if whatever they do can work on another system just fine. The evidence of this is how Windows users are even reluctant to 'upgrade' to a new version of Windows, and I also think this is perfectly understandable.
yeah that guy was really annoying to listen to
The zip file extension thing happens with a lot of conversions of files in windows explorer too, not a linux exclusive issue, just based on how files are generated.
Nope. I'm pretty sure Windows is using %TEMP% for such operations and not the very same folder where the packing is happening.
Color me shocked that, after not reading a single word on the screen other than "Yes, do as I say!" and bricking his desktop, impatience was a problem for Linus.
difference between linux and windows in this case being: windows pops up a big box saying it's doing something, while KDE puts it in the corner.
not every DE is like this, but that's kinda the issue isn't it?
cope corner
Windows hides these files in a seperate temp folder, because obviously if they didn't users would try to open the temp files. It's a clear open goal, blindingly obvious potential problem. Other fixes might be hiding the temp file, or just having a progress bar to show the compression is still happening. These are UX bugs that should be fixed, simple as that
This feels like Crowbcat but like, positive and on a nicher and nerdier topic. Amazing editing job and great presentation!
oh yeah, I was wondering what this format reminded me of
Wouldn't have guessed that from the comment section lol, just an absolute bloodbath lmao
Or like that Verge supercut
Collecting a whole bunch of reactions, and especially the most valuable and insightful ones, and then adding some context notes to this makes this a really good and interesting watch. Also very funny.
39:39 this part was very telling that all these people don't play multiplayer games lol.
most multiplayer games work fine, all we can really say is dont play dogshit games like cod
@@LUIGIMAN309 With the introduction of Vanguard on League, I'd have to say that multiplayer games are on their way to work less and less on Linux unless the devs finally get their shit together and actually allow Linux players to play.
@@LUIGIMAN309most games that require anti cheat, work like crap or not at all. This is most popular multiplayer games. Whatever you political opinion on anticheat or you personal opinion on what games are good, it is a fact a *lot* people play games with anti cheat.
The classic Linux community response! 😂
"How do I play COD Warzone with my freinds? It's a hugely popular free battle royale all my friends play"
"You don't!"
@@IAMSEYMOURMUSIC Really shouldn't install OS-es when you're 12.
“Yes do as I say!” should probably be something like “Remove desktop environment” instead
Yeah, if you're used to Linux and knwo the default is to ask for "y", that might raise an eyebrow, but it was literally the first thing he installed, he didn't really have much of a reason to read everything the terminal put out.
@@iurigrangWell, the actual GUI did prevent him from bricking his system and explained why. If he'd used apt (rather than the automation tool apt-get) he would have gotten significantly fancier syntax highlighting and different messages.
Honestly while i guess poeple not used to computers might not pick up on that... if a comand prompt asks for such a specific answer i would double and tripple check just what on earth i am doing. Linus should have absolutely noticed that something was not gonna be right.
After all to get to that point he had to
A: go into the comand prompt because the software center/pakage manager didnt allow the installation
B: Specifically type a phrase WITH special characters in it.
While I agree with the point made by the reactors that the warning should stand out, I also think someone like Linus should know better than to just blindly follow the prompt given to him without reading the warning.
@@sonicfan1693I think he was kinda role playing as a more average user, rather than the super user he actually is. I found finding solutions to problems I had in Linux to be tedious, as a lot of answers required using the command prompt. To the point that it seemed like using the command prompt would be the main way to install many programs. It was about two years ago that I last tried it, around the time of the LTT Linux videos, so maybe I should give it a try again.
@@c99kfm why are those separate? if apt-get is supposed to be more user friendly it needs to be clearer
What I like about Linux gaming is how you can configure tons of stuff for each game. Even if you do it through Lutris, to make the process much more simple.
In modern Windows you either hope an old game would properly work and/or someone did fan patches for it, or maybe use emulators, which is not a great solution for anything past DOS games.
Example - I installed Midtown Madness 2 on my modern Windows machine (it's a Win98 era game basically). It launches, but 3d doesn't work properly and even in the menu it has terrible fps. Because it uses a very old directx or directdraw (I don't remember which at this point).
In Linux Lutris I just chose an option to install this game "for an old system". So basically it just configured some important stuff in wine for me. And everything worked.
However of course Linux gaming isn't perfect. And another thing also is making mods work for some games too. Mods can use different tricks to work, they are not all just resources in override folder.
Also I use an AMD gpu and a single monitor, so I definitely dodged some potential problems as well. However even with AMD it is very sad that there is no Adrenalin for Linux.
I'm quite casually using Linux at home, not doing much, so another good thing about it is the customization options. Windows is awfully boring. Also I've been using it for like ~25 years.
Not saying I quit Windows, I have both. However I will never use Win11 at home I think, so staying on Win10 as much as possible.
This is just a great example of being an IT tech and working around users. "You need to read what the commands are telling you before you do them!"
That's not what people do. People skim stuff and then when they allow it, get confused when it breaks something
To me this is the bigger issue Linux has if it ever wants to be adopted by the mainstream
Yes it’s wonderful to have the higher skill ceiling and to have more privacy and security, but the general end user is never going to switch if such basic shit can devolve into such a mess
its really irritating when the youtubers who are reacting give advice to luke and linus that involves the terminal when these tasks can just as easily be done with a gui
That's actually what they were saying throughout the video - why was Linus using the terminal to install obs for example.
Love some of these guys... "yeah so you just type these 4 commands everyone knows and you can solve your problem. Don't be such an idiot"
I know, i know... Linux is great. But you have to have a way above average understanding of computers to even have it stay alive, not to mention doing more complex tasks. And yes, i know the "Linux experience" is better now, but it's still not there.
its like being an engineer of your own car
@@kurostyx9124 I think a more apt analogy is a normal everyday car, and a helicopter with all the instructions and labels in Swahili. It will get you where you want to go quicker, but you need to learn a different language to do it, and it's a lot more complicated to drive. But once you learned all that, you are cool, and you can go anywhere. But the car will get you there too, much easier, but slower.
Although I'm not the target audience, I do hope there is a distro that specifically focuses on mass adoption rather than being real good so that we can atleast point new users to that first
@@hypermiraclepositivegirl2415 there are already "Linux" flavours who just do that: Android, ChromeOS and SteamOS.
Oh, did you mean non-cooperate ones?
Sorry, no luck there, the only ones who have worried about making the user friendly "Linux" versions have been big ass corporations like Valve and Google and I really doubt that there will ever be a Linux variation as user friendly as ChromeOS or Android developed by the "Linux Community" rather than a corporate overlord.
@@misterlobsterman You're talking about learning a different language when literally all Windows gives you for an error is a hex code.
These supercuts are awesome for my rotted attention span. Loving it and looking forward to whatever else you spin up!
We just watched 47 minutes of nerds discussing an OS, your attention span isn’t fried lmao. You’d need a pharmacy’s worth of adderall to watch all these videos
The one thinf i thought was hilarious was it took me over an hour to get my sister's HP printer setup, then to get her MacBook, her tablet, and my windows machine to find it. Then a qeek later I blew the dust off an old laptop, installed LMDE to test it out, and it immediately found and swtup that printer on its own. Linux just works better than Windows with network items and its sad.
It was really cool to hear from other Linux users who have experience. Watched the whole ting and learned a lot of points of interest. Thanks for the video.
Wow, I just learned something new from watching this video. I've been running Fedora KDE comfortably for the past 6 months but I wasn't aware of adding in refresh into the dolphin toolbar lol
“Well actually all you need to do is....” YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT: how is he meant to know those things?
you get better with time. you start out struggling, having to look up how to do basic things, and then with time you just know most of them off the top of your head and dont really need to have references.
@@goos42 yeah but if the point is to advertise linux to the mainstream windows/new users (which is the whole point of this challenge) then you can not expect the users to keep struggling to try and solve something as simple as installing a game.
Same way you get stuff done on windows. I don't know how to do stuff in the control panel without looking it up.
@@QuarkeeBut in some cases Linus made statements that was straight up false.
He also just made some strange decisions at times.
22:00 I'm surprised how many were quick to defend Linux here. This is still a byproduct of the Linux experience, even if GitHub itself is not a Linux problem.
yeah. if you wanted to install something on windows or mac its always an exe or a dmg file. you rarely ever have to go into github to download a script and run it unless you are an enthusiast. but expecting common people to go to github to get basic programs working is not a user error
This challenge was a great thing for the Linux community. I'm also proud of how reasonable people have been watching them make mistakes, it's important to understand how high the barrier to entry is and how historically uh.... Difficult, the community can be, especially to new users.
Linux community has a fatal flaw of: "If you don't know what you are doing, you aren't welcome". I'm a god damn mechanical engineering who needs to go through thick bricks of complicated technical text, and I can't even bother to try to wrap my head around the bullshit of Linux using. I do some basic things, but anything beyond that comes crashing down when I will hit face first a brick wall of something being: "Oh yeah that is a bug/problem community has known about 10 years but it hasn't been fixed, so everyone just uses this complicated work around.".
Also at 32:35 oh yeah! Such an intuitive and easy way to do! Anyone who doesn't know that this is the way you should do it just stupid and shouldn't complain until they learn to use linux and command prompts. Compare this to installing a font on Windows? Drop the file in to the folder and you are done. Honestly that time stamp is the reason people would rather not bother than turn to linux. I can't even read that command. It isn't human readable. The UI/UX perspective is just shit (as is the case with everything Linux in my opinion). It is one thing to have crypictic mess like that. If the command prompt was text rich like: "Copy FileName to FolderName. Thanks". And this isn't even unusal, there are machines and software that actually act like this. Particularly German designed. Where instead of enter you have "Bitte" or "Thanks". Like GrandMA light control systems, on the physical controls and software "if something doesn't work, you haven't been polite enough". Some german CNC and NC systems work like this too. I have programmed industrial automation from the remote controller and the interface is bascially: "Move to (point) with (Movement type) at (movement speed) and (Movement precision)" then next line can be "Wait 5 seconds. Call (device)"; "Do (action)". Now why would anyone want to code industrial automation with such "ineffcient" language? Because it is meant to be programmed by Danny the Welder, Jane the Technician and Bob the Engineer, without more than day or two of training in the use of the interface.
If Linux wants to "become maintstream" the collective community needs to choose one distro to develop to be the "Windows of Linux", pour money and time to UI/UX and then make it usable as easily as your basic industrial systems.
All I'll say here is that there ARE commercially supported and heavily funded versions of Linux. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, and RedHat all have a lot of money invested in their respective projects, and those projects do cross-develop resources they share, such as the Linux Kernel.
The main issue I think you'll find is that Linux is marketed first and foremost as a server solution, not a consumer-grade desktop OS. Development and popularization of the Linux desktop is largely down to enthusiasts, many of which are coming to Linux from that experience they have with using it as a server.
I think you gave the wrong timestamp.
As for the font point: Here on my system you just doubleclick the font, it shows you a preview of the font and then you click install.
The UX might be shit on some Desktop Enviroments but on Plasma (which conveniently one of the developers was shown reacting to the LTT challenge), it is just as intuitive as Windows.
And for your third paragraph @Omnizoa has already addressed it but I'd like to include SteamOS into the mix, it's not out* yet (officially) for hardware other than the Steam Deck but it's there.
To be honest, I admit that most of what you have written is right. But on some things I have a different opinion:
You write that the example with installing a font was too complicated. Well, yes, if you do it the complicated way that Luke chose, it is. But did you see how easy it was for Linus? So your example is flawed...
Then you want a "mainstream" windows-linux. This is complete the opposite of what should or will happen! And for many, many good reasons. Why don't all car manufacturers collectively build one car? There are different needs, even a single manufacturer builds many types of cars - there is no one-fits-all in cars, neither is there for operating systems, graphical interfaces or even pdf viewers.
You want that somebody pours money and time into UI/UX into Linux and makes it usable ... Yes. That's right, this is what Redhat, OpenSUSE and Canonical are doing. And if you look closely, many of their systems are already quite good, I would argue that they're much better than Windows or MacOS. And yes, I mostly work with Windows and Linux, both. For me the most user-friendly system to date is Fedora Silverblue, closely followed by a ton of other linux distributions, then Windows, other linux-distributions and very far at the end - MacOS. I'm not used to it and it drives me crazy.
Copy filename to foldername is essentially what cp /path/to/file /path/to/dir/ is
@nathank-jw7uv and nobody should have to do that these days unless you're doing something *weird*, or *you're* weird. I use command line for stuff all the time, I'm used to it. But for just simple tasks it's way too much hassle for my specific case. And for installing a font? That's lunacy. It was lunacy back in 1995.
I enjoyed this cute stitching of comments from the peanut galleries to Linus' mess. Realistically he's probably above average in the group, "average people installing Linux." I'm really not sure any "average person" from Windows, trying to get Linux working, would have done differently on Pop_OS catastrophe. If the issue was the install needed a full update after install, then the install should have brought this up when the GUI was loaded and said so, telling the newbie user this. "I require a full update. Click "Continue" to update now...." But it doesn't, does it? Of course not. It's NOT user friendly.
Windows has huge issues, surface and sub-surface. MacOS? Yep, really distasteful issues. But then there is Linux. I remember when it came out. We ("Unix people") HOPED it was going to save the world. Be the new "best thing" from Kernel 2.0 up. And it did a lot of that. but, here we are, with me looking at my 3.5" floppy Linux install wondering WHY still today a 4GB or 9GB .iso install doesn't work 100% of the time, OR GIVE A DECENT ERROR. Not dumping this on you, just mentioning that we need more than GUIs. We need GUIs that give ERRORS which anyone--grandma, the dude across the street who wants a working laptop, this kid down the road--can install an OS which is 33 years old and it just works. And the "Linux websites," holy moly they really are bad. I guess my issues is I still remember how bad, yet good, Unix was. How BSD was going to save us all (well, okay, it really did, but....), how Solaris going to x86 was the golden calf. And how Red Hat Linux v7 was the best thing since sliced bread. Well VMWARE sure liked it since it was based on it. Perhaps in another 33 years.....
maybe something like chatgpt 5 can automate things to work more. that you can only write/say to it "install x" and it will do it properly for you in linux, including all required pre updates before it, including driver updates etc.
You do realize there are hundreds of Linux distributions, right?
thank you so much for splicing all these clips together so wonderfully
Excelent editing, from all of my preferred Linux youtubers. Gaming on LInux has come a long way, (specially if you think about the steam deck experience), but I have tried it and get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff necessary to configure some games (when available)... Wine, Lutris with a thousand possible configurations... that is exactly the opposite of console gaming, that in the end, is what the regular user wants...
Pipewire and Flatpak/XDG Desktop portals have made Linux way more useable since I started using Linux in 2018. Also pipewire isn't just for audio, it's also for video streams.
I love to start with things from the earliest point to see how they evolve but not with Linux lol. I began using it this year full time for most of the year. Sure there was some bumps in the road and at times wanted to go back to windows but was really liking things about Linux already. I'm glad I started now when things are so much simpler than ages ago.
It’s funny to read someone write that because everywhere else I frequent absolutely dumps on flatpack and cousins
Distros that don't ship with Pipewire and Wayland by default simply shouldn't be recommended ever for a desktop system in 2024.
I'm an old man now, and started using PCs with Win95. I can attest that learning to computer with Windows and learning to computer with (many versions of) Linux, simply as an end user, have been two utterly different experiences. And let me tell you, Windows wasn't the one that completely confounded me every friggin time. Twice, over the last three decades, I have resolutely decided to permanently install a Linux distro ... once lasting 6 months, and the other lasting over 2 years. (Plus a few other lesser attempts.) I cannot emphasize enough, the sentiment expressed to the Linux community over and over, truly - it just needs to work. I know because I've been there. I love you; I want you; but I just can't have you.
I like how in almost every circumstance the response is to open with 'yeah I can see how a new user might think that' or 'this is a bug' or 'this is a UX problem' and then criticise the resulting train of logic trying to get around each problem by blaming the user.
Gardiner was the most tolerable.
"GitHub is MS, so you should be blaming MS"
No, because as a Windows user he never felt like he needed to resort to using GitHub to solve an entry level issue.
"That's not a Linux problem, that's a problem with PulseAudio"
Weird how Luke never had this PulseAudio problem on Windows then.
"Lukes problem is that he doesn't want to go for a drive to the store"
Because Windows never required it to get this working.
"You don't need mp3s, convert all your mp3s to oggs"
This is the core mentality in the Linux community that never got a bug fix.
These criticisms suck.
1.) The lack of an intuitive interface on GitHub isn't a mark against Linux just because a user on GitHub happens to offers a script a Linux user might want.
2.) Gardiner didn't say "That's not a Linux problem", he said "That's not an OBS problem".
3.) He's talking about using a device he doesn't normally use. He'd need the cable regardless of the operating system on the PC he's connecting it to.
4.) That concerns the topic of standardizing FOSS software which was only briefly referenced once in the original videos and only brought up here to point out that Linux is much easier now than it was then.
And here, once again, we see my point demonstrated immediately without a hint of self realisation.
For the average person, Linux is a fun toy if you want to use it for printing and word documents and other things a $50 tablet is good for. The people around it are a-holes and because they're the ones responsible for making it better, it will never replace anything.
@@tzuyd Look, man. Blaming linux for your github ui issues is about as nonsensical as blaming the Federal Highway Administration when the McDonalds drive-thru doesn't serve icecream.
@@tzuyd I acknowledge that a lot of the issues raised are completely valid, but everyone seems stuck in a windows mindset where the full extent of the user experience is the sole reponsibility of a single entity; the Microsoft Corporation. Most of the pieces that make up any one of the infinite versions of the 'linux desktop' are managed by completely unaffiliated groups of devs. You can and should criticize the individual parts, or possibly the desktop environment if the package comes preinstalled, but blaming 'linux' as a whole is just incorrect.
Nobody blamed Linux for Guthubs UI problems, and even bringing that up shows great dishonesty in engagement.
The complaint was clearly about Linux functionality, for which a fix was posted on Guthub. Your reply proves my point yet again.
Linux gamers play singleplayer games. That somehow talks a lot about how we loners love Linux lol
i'd say it more shows the state of anticheat compatibility on linux lol
@@spaceghostmiideh fuck em, theyre basically proprietary spyware, full on RATs even that people voluntarily install for the sake of not running into cheaters when all of that couldeve been done serverside the whole time
@@spaceghostmiid Well, they all said they hadn't encountered those issues because they don't play multiplayer games, not that they don't play multiplayer games because of those issues.
@@godminnette2 from experience most multiplayer games are a no-go on linux without a lot of tweaking. anything with battleye, EAC, or other kernel level anticheat does not work on linux (unless the developer specifically added linux support)
@@spaceghostmiid I'm aware
Why do all the linux users look exactly like i would expect linux users to look like
and how do they look like?
@@5fr4ewq like virgins.
@@spell105 ur projecting your own insecurities, then
@@spell105 Lmfaoooo
@@5fr4ewqtakes one to know one
Hey, that's me!
Thanks for making the videos!
@@OmnisArchives thanks for including me! I'll admit its pretty strange to be presented as an equal to the likes of Brody and Muta. But I'm appreciative regardless :)
That was actually a really good mega cut. I don't normally sit through long videos like this but tbag was enjoyable.
This video is actually... Intensely good. I love this. I would like to see more of this.
Like others, I walked in thinking this would be smash cuts. The editing on this is fantastic. It was clearly done with love. Great job.
The main reason why Linux will very likely never replace Windows as Desktop-OS for most people is the Linux-Community itself
L take. Linux community is the best part of problem solving on linux. Any time you run into an issue, someone has already posted about it and has already answered and solved the problem.
The only time anyone ever has issues is if you ask dumb questions. Its like if I go into a car meet with a knife in my tire screaming that I need to fix my alternator because I refused to spend 30 seconds to read. After this you go around spouting how this car sucks and is unintuitive, and how much you hate this car, and that a bicycle would just be so much better. And everyone at the car meet is just annoyed by your presence, but deal with it anyways.
THEN, 30 other people also walk into the meet for equally dumb reasons. The people will roll their eyes and just stop helping. If you spam forums that you ignored the terminals advice and proceeded to uninstall something, people will roll their eyes.
AND THEN, taylor swift comes out and says "yeah man this car really sucks, in order to drive the car, you have to turn on all of these knobs labeled "AC" and you HAVE to have cold air blowing in order for the car to move at all." or other factually incorrect statements, but said with confidence to her VERY large audience, and its like wow, she is wrong and now all of these people believe her, and now also hate it.
This culture exists in every. single. community. If I go play a video game, failing to understand the actual mechanics of the game, then blaming the game for my faults, thats annoying to listen to.
Its like if you search up a recipe, dont follow the recipe, then proceed to claim the recipe was bad. /r/ididnthaveeggs
"I didn't have potatoes, so I substituted rice.
I didn't have paprika, so I used another spice.
I didn't have tomato sauce, I used tomato paste'
A whole can, not a half a can--I do not like to waste.
A friend gave me the recipe, she said you couldn't beat it!
There must be something wrong with her
--I couldn't even eat it."
@@SamTuffmanSurely you're smart enough to realize that your comment is gatekeeping. Linux DOES need better behavior for noob users, and even if people "ask dumb questions", that's no excuse to be condescending in support forums. Windows doesn't need a manual, why are you blaming people for not reading Linux documentation?
@@OrchidAlloy The only reason you understand how to use Windows is because you have used it for years. A BRAND new user who has never touched the operating system before struggles to do anything. For example, my father who has never touched a windows machine, and only used OSX all his life, has zero idea how to make file, name a file, even install a program, or do basically anything, and he has to ask me for help, or.................consult the forums and help pages pre-written. Amazing.
Im sorry to break the news, buddy. If you type help in the windows search bar, there is an entire app for helping new users. Just as there is for linux. There are microsoft support pages, just as there is for linux. The problem is not that its "unfriendly", but its that you refuse to relearn things you already know, which is okay! Its difficult and frustrating to rewire your brain for things you already know.
The point of my comment was not to discredit new users, but to draw parallels between the thousands of other niche, enthusiastic communities, that linux is NOT as unfriendly as people think. I am all for people learning, there are tools for that. But people just have a refusal to learn.
Even despite all that, I have asked dumb questions before, we all have, and generally people will just ignore you, or ask you questions like, "Did you bother googling this before posting" or "Did you read the man and/or wiki page first" as these things have already been explained dozens of times.
The only time I have ever seen blowback, is if you proudly say something is wrong, which has happened in **literally every community ever that has existed**, which is what I was saying in the previous comment.
There is nothing stopping you from downloading Ubuntu, or even mint or manjaro, and using that without any issues, other than the refusal to learn.
"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
@@SamTuffman, You are just confirmation of these words
@@OrchidAlloy Windows doesn't need a manual, because the way people troubleshoot it are: 1) It's broken, I won't use it. 2) Reinstall and hope it fixes itself. 3) Get the computer to a service shop.
When I saw the title, I wasn't familiar with the phrase "daily driver", and thought that for the challenge they'd write a Linux device driver each day.
Thank you for the supercut, I had watched parts of mutahar’s video, but seeing other views and opinions is helpful cause I likely wouldn’t have searched much more beyond my common yt sphere to find them otherwise
I think the biggest problem with the Linux community is that they vastly overestimate how much time the average (or even 99th percentile) person spends, or is willing to spend, on a desktop computer.
Normies use computers to do a job. The computer shouldn't BE the job
Windows has stayed alive because of it.
Most people have an end goal for using a computer, they want to do that pretty much immediately upon having installed their OS.
With AI however I foresee a lot of people like me who don't even see using windows as an alternative anymore and suddenly the incentive to learn a bit more about Linux is there.
I watched the video when it came out, tried to watch 1 reaction, but it wasn't well edited, but this.... this is a great video! well done :)
" it wasn't well edited"
That's because they Linux guys couldn't get their video editing software to work correctly. 🤭
All these Linux users about multiplayer: "I don't have any friends" 💀
?
Huh
It was less "I dont have any friends" and more "I myself dont really play any multiplayer games because i prefer single player". I myself have a couple friends but i rarely play any multiplayer games with them because i quite frankly dont find much enjoyment in those. The ones i do have interest in are either local only or dont have an anticheat in place that blocks linux.
i got lucky, the only multiplayer games i play run on linux thankfully.
I most definitely do have friends, and I do use Arch (BTW). It's mainly that most multiplayer games are too violent for my tastes, but TF2 with sillygibs works amazingly on Linux (sillygibs isn't required :p)
The vibe I'm getting from the end part and the comment section is "if this was only one more year later" or "I wish this would be a yearly thing".
Which is amazing, it's a signal from the type of people that take constructive criticism and build beautifully on top of it.
In that sense, it'd be really neat to see an alliance form to iron out all these kinks. Dunno, call it something like "1MY" short for "1 more year" or something. I believe in you, boys!
PS: Never tried Linux outside some very narrow usecases before but I'd be so down to port my rig onto it if only video editing & gaming were a smooth experience
I think both are perfectly acceptable. DaVinci Resolve runs natively on Linux. ProtonDB gets more and more games every week. I've heard people say those things for around 8 years now, and there have been absolute massive improvements between then and now. But people don't like discomfort and will keep using every excuse to not move over. I scrolled down just a little bit on this comments section and somebody literally explicitly commended their experience on Linux being painless in regards to gaming on Steam.
afaik Resolve (my preferred tool as well) has some codec limitations but yeah, it's great to hear that BlackMagic actually dug into Linux, kudos to them@@Cobalt985
Gaming on linux is basically perfect now thanks to Proton. Video editing is possible with certain software, like Olive, OpenShot, Pitivi, etc. Even Blender can do video editing, though it has a hard learning curve to use for that stuff.
@@NezumiiroGraydoes perfect include not being able to play game with anti cheat?
@@automator24 anti-cheat rarely causes problems
This was a good video. The supercut is perfect for this important topic of making more people considering a distro pull the trigger.
16:57 "This is proposing a command that does nothing except tell the user not to use it" While that's an accurate description, I would *still* argue it's a good feature
Like it or not Linux is viewed as a monolith by non users and having two entirely separate ways to get basic stuff like installing done is not intuitive to new-comers... (yes they can go research which to use, no that's not really a solution, it just moves the roadblock to a different place and the more hurdles you have to jump the less inviting it all feels)
Yo another super cut! I can expect the dame quality from the last.
I find it bothersome that the same people who keep an elitist air around them for using Linux over Windows, would become hostile once you do make the switch and ask for help, as if you're supposed to know everything. I've done this in 2021 and the community is just crazy. I still occasionally use Linux but only on some cloud machines. I do hope one day we'll get to the point where Nvidia works just as good as AMD on Linux, because I'm sure as hell not jumping ship just for the operating system.
@@dreaper5813 Well, enjoy your struggles, then. Other people have more important things in life to focus on than what hardware is compatible with their specific selection of distro, or what distro is more suitable for their workflow. You go ahead and be the toxic Linux fanboy you clearly aspire to be, and everyone else will just continue using actual mainstream OSes that they don't have to think about while they do their work.
The amount of times someone in this video said something like “well why would you do it like that?”
Because most users just don’t know. For the most part, Windows works without a hitch almost every time. So users need little to no tech knowledge to use it
So when someone tries to learn Linux don’t blame the user for not knowing
is asking you to read English too much?
@@anomic-crno but when you get a massive wall of text for everything you do you start to ignore massive walls of text. It's called alarm fatigue. When the 7th massive unformated wall of text suddenly has very important information it is easy to see why someone would do that. Like the person in the video said, there are tools that developers can use to bring attention to text and it is a failing that they didn't.
@@Tuxedosam. it also honestly feels to me like its a failure that it could even ever get this far, like how the fuck in a very normal very standard install attempt (at least if youre coming from outside of lixus) going to end in the os deleting major parts of itself
I used Ubuntu about 10 years ago as a school Technician, it wasn't a great experience, but trying it again during lockdown, it was so much better.
I'm sure there's some Improvements that have been made in response to this challenge. And that's a good thing.
@16:57 I find it hilarious that the things Linus is talking about with the Linux community is perfectly demonstrated in the next 30 seconds.
"You're wrong!"
"That doesn't happen!"
"That's not what that means!"
etc, etc, etc.
Discounting someones direct experiences just because you haven't encountered them is a massive detriment to adoption of Linux with the wider audience.
I personally try Linux every 3-5 years to see how it's progressing, and I'm overdue at this point. But the last time I tried was just before the pandemic, and I've never had as many crashes or freezes and lockups in my life, then with Linux.
Tried multiple distros etc.
The community responses were pretty much what you would expect, toxic, no patience, lots of insults and passive aggressive replies to questions.
When we read a message or prompt and misunderstand it's meaning, then it's worded wrong. Saying that Linus is not understanding the meaning behind words in regards to Linux is not his fault, it's a lack of experience.
> Discounting someones direct experiences just because you haven't encountered them is a massive detriment to adoption of Linux with the wider audience.
Correcting someone's blatant misinterpretation of provided information is hardly what I'd call detrimental. Linus sees "Unofficial", reads it as "Unsupported", and interprets that as "Doesn't work on my distro", when it actually means that that version isn't explicitly maintained by the developers.
It's not the most unreasonable mistake to make, but it also isn't the most reasonable mistake to make either. Even in software terms, "support" has more than one meaning, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for OBS to be providing instructions for how to run the software if it wasn't supposed to work.
@@Omnizoathe point still stands that correcting it on a stream or video misses the point that the language used to communicate that idea is failing if someone is reading it and getting the wrong impression. For Windows users, "Unofficial" might as well say "Stay away" because a lot of these projects end up kind of just sucking compared to official projects.
@@Omnizoa "Linus sees "Unofficial", reads it as "Unsupported", and interprets that as "Doesn't work on my distro", when it actually means that that version isn't explicitly maintained by the developers."
So Linus was actually right, as if he had an issue with the unofficial version he couldn't get support from the developers...which to most people would mean it is unsupported. At that point is it worth trying the unofficial version when if you have a problem you can't get help with it?
@@Omnizoa You're using a different meaning of the word "unsupported". You mean "it won't work". Linus meant "it might work but it might not and there's nobody to help me if it doesn't". He's not too stupid to realize that the command for his distro would not even be mentioned on the site if it just plain old didn't work ever.
most of these: "It should work, it works for me"
This is classic linux
It's not dismissive of the actual issues Linus experienced, which I think makes the difference.
that's not what they said tho, most of them were actually pretty empathetic of the issues Linus was having.
"Empathetic for Linus"
Linus: *doesn't know how to refresh*
Meanwhile the reacters: "THE REFRESH BUTTON IS THERE! YOU ONLY NEED TO NAVIGATE THROUGH THIS 4 SIMPLE STEPS"
The part about the hardware with all the linux fans going "Oh no, don't use Goxlr and nvidia gpus, you should buy this and that" made me cringe very badly. If anyone thinks people have the money to replace their extremely expensive components for their "open source perfection" they should take a look how much these products cost and what is the average income, because no one will spend 500$+ to replace their perfectly functional setup on windows.
There's nothing cringey about it. Windows users will tell Mac users the same shit.
@@Omnizoawindows and Mac are different hardware. This is just running another OS on the same hardware. The Linux community don't want adoption, it's the last thing they want
telling me i should change from nvidia to amd would just make me stop bothering to install linux and revisit it if i ever switch to amd for an unrelated reason. such useless advice
Then ask Nvidia, the actual company that makes the driver to do a better job. If i lose access to my canon printer on a new windows os version, it's not the fault of MS. That's on the Canon corporation.
What is your solution then? You can't blame the Linux community for companies not supporting Linux or not providing open-source code.
I've been patiently waiting for at least 10 years now to have a really easy and nice user experience on Linux while not having to sacrifice all of my games. I'll try again this year to see how it goes
I get second hand embarrassment from these reactions. A lot of these Linux content creators blame Linus (the new user) for not immediately knowing the ins and outs of Linux, and making mistakes, and the entire purpose of the challenge was to show real world usage of popular Linux distros at the hands of newcomers.
This LTT challenge is better than the highly controlled environment Linux tubers create when reviewing a distro. It creates this feedback loop that prevents desktop Linux from being truly user friendly.
The thing is, when you change your os, you don't just immediately do it, you research before. While I don't blame him for the pop os bug (pop os is really bad since system 76 started cosmic) the apt vs pacman issue is really stupid.
The problem is that many of the problems he encountered would not have happened if he did some small research before switching. What beginner goes into a different os blind?@@H-Lambda-
I don't think I would actually😅. Windows is the standard, I know how it works. If it wasn't I would probably have a very hard time installing and uninstalling software. It is so intuitive under linux (to me) but using a browser just feels wrong to me.@@H-Lambda-
I guess it just comes down to this,
Do you think Linux should eventually become a Windows replacement or a badge of office for computer nerds, it's one or the other
My god the guy who just says 'dont have your hardware' with linus's GoXLR is everything wrong with the linux community.
Like hey as a hobbies tool or a dev only thing sure random modern hardware not working isn’t a deal breaker but if it ever wants to be the windows replacement so many fucking people seem to want it to be then it needs to do better
Oh yeah, sure. Just like it doesn't happen on Windows where you can lose access to your hardware because drivers are not updated to a new version of the OS (looking at you Canon printers). But yeah sure let's blame the linux community when it's the hardware company at fault. There are many old quirks and attitudes that can be problematic in the Linux community but hardware support that's not. That's the elephant in the room.
Well, it's worded quite badly. But in essence the issue *does* lie with the hardware manufacturer not providing software for an OS that is not Windows. Since then, the community has actually put in the effort to make GoXLR work on Linux. That is to say without any support from TC-Helicon.
Everytime I go on github I forget how to actualy download the thing like why is it hidden behind code
that's what the releases section is for, the developer is supposed to provide a build for end users to download.
if you're trying to download source code either you're doing it wrong or the developer didn't do their job, or it's a python/shellscript.
The Linux community needs big-time normies to make videos like these. So many Linux users have no idea how normal people use computers. The KDE dev not realizing the refresh button was way too hidden in dolphin or not realizing people with large monitors can't see many UI elements in plasma until Linus pointed it out shows how large a Linux dev's blindspot can be on usability for normal people. The fact he took the criticism well and understood it at least gives me hope. "Well I do some esoteric commands in CLI I read on a forum 5 years ago and it works for me" is not an acceptable answer for a guy who just wants his computer to work, so hopefully the strides Linux has made in the past couple years continues on the right path.
"using discord is easy" proceeds to use a shit ton of jargon and refuses to elaborate further
One day people will differentiate easy for me and easy for others 😂
When they say "obs-studio has a flatpak and snap" what they really meant was that the desktop environment's app store is going to have them with a little download button, the same way Luke was able to install obs, not necessarily that you need to know what flatpak or snap is or means.
@@ryanstewart531but you need to understand their jargon to understand what they mean. Saying "just install it this easy way" in some indecipherable jargon that says anything but that is neither easy nor helping.
While that’s what he said, on the screen he showed exactly what to do. Open the gui software store and search for it.
@@tobylegion6913Yeah I quit trying Linux (Pop!_OS) because whenever I ran into an issue and I searched for a solution, I had to do even more research to understand that solution. And when it wouldn’t work I had no idea whether I did something wrong, whether the solution offered was wrong, or if there simply was no solution (e.g. hardware not being compatible). It’s like having to learn a new language, and while I’m pretty eager to learn new languages, I don’t want to have to do that just to use my computer comfortably.
This was a great cut and watch haha. Seeing all these reactions has me laughing
This is a phenomenal edit. Thank you so much!
Great job making this video , not only i got to see the Their experience but also counter points and different opinions
I like that the answer to most of the problems is "He has the wrong hardware" So if you want to switch from Windows to Linux step 1 is pick distro and step 2 is buy the correct hardware for it? Sure you can't blame Linux or its developers or the community for proprietary hardware/software but buy different computer is NOT a solution. If you own the right computer Linux is user friendly but if you have the wrong computer Linux is for developers only MEANS Linux is for developers only.
They're talking about external audio devices here, not the computer itself (aside from maybe the AMD/Nvidia GPU option, but to be fair both of those work for most things).
@@LewisCostin still while thats fair, if linux ever wants to be this open source widly used tool it needs to have less random ass issues that force people to change hardware.
Give windows shit, it deserves it, but I can use the same sound card in windows 98 to 11 with few to any bugs, im able to use this massive range of stuff
@@SkyTreeStudio not true, I know of hardware that no longer works on any modern OS, but thats not even Microsofts fault. Plenty of software too that wont work unless you run the ancient OS in a VM. And also, Linux doesnt need to be a popular platform. It's not asking for money.
@@LewisCostin I mean I never said everything works did I? Yeah plenty of old shit doesn’t work anymore and while I’m glad Linux supports some stuff it doesn’t support others
And I’m not saying it has to be big, but the community on large seems to want it to be as big if not bigger than windows and if they want that there are fatal issues with Linux that it would need to fix long before that could happen
For everyone who is new to Linux and mainly wants to play Games, all i can say i am running Nobara 39 with KDE Desktop and i f*ing love it, just installed it, Nvidia driver worked out of the box, Steam was already installed, login to steam, download game and you are ready to go.
I am having better FPS and i also can stream my Gameplay without any Problems. And my System is old. (i7 6700k, RTX2060, 32GB DDR4-2133)
Only your CPU is old, but now modern CPUs (Im on 9nth gen i7) aren't that different
As I am learning Linux on Raspberry Pi400, this is the most valuable video I have seen recently. My point is not to put down Linuss challange in any way, but this video response compilation ended up so much more valuable. From many little things like different package managers apt and pacman, more explanation about why nvidia has issues, to just plainly giving a list to Linux youtubers.
I have installed Ubuntu Linux for older people before, who just need to access Gmail and Facebook, but never used it as my own daily driver.
Windows has many benefits like large software base targeted to Windows systems, but its becoming a growing privacy nightmare.
Last but not least for a long time I thought that driver support for obscure hardware is one of Linux benefits, but the story seems to be more complicated.
This noob-shaming is a big reason why a lot of enthusiast will never switch to linux. Anything that requires a hack/workaround for it to just match windows/mac os functionality is simply not good enough. I understand that support for linux has grown immensely and will grow with the steamdeck as well but it’s still an incomplete experience.
I think shaming someone that depicts himself as an expert is fine. LTT is an embarrassment to the tech world.
@@renjithjoseph7135 Thanks for proving my point
@@kennyP105 I don't use Linux, I just hate LTT 😂
Like sure… go your way and use whatever you want. No one is pointing gun to your head. But if linus put himself to challenge but then not accepting the challenging aspect of the said challenge, then why even slander unnecessarily? Like with PopOS, one time he got error in gui, then he got a blazing warning where he had to write whole sentence to go forward. Even if at that point people don’t get a simple idea to google before nuking themselves, then sometimes criticism is valid. People didn’t born with Linux knowledge, that MEANS there is a healthy and helpful community out there
@@thecompanioncube4211 yeah linux is hard to use, that's why I don't use it. But Linus is a money-hungry, dishonest, gifting soyboy that doesn't deliver anything of value to the tech world except misinformation wrapped up in "entertainment value". Screw him and his company. Only some of his staff have any redemptive value.
The snarky comments and the blaming of the end user (Linus) in this video from some of the people reacting just show why Linux still see as not user friendly, Linus basically acts like the normal day-to-day user that has no experience with Linux and was willing to try it, even if he did some questionable things there most of his concerns or mistakes was something that, from my perspective, a normal user could and probably would do, having bad UX/UI design has nothing to do with the user.