SPOTTING THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CPTSD VS BORDERLINE PD (BPD PARENT VS CPTSD ADULT CHILD)
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- Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2020
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What might it look like if a parent had more severe BPD and their adult child had CPTSD?
This video uses the example of how a parent (who may have developed BPD from their own childhood trauma and/or genetics) might compare to the manifestation of CPTSD in their adult child --and explores the overlapping symptoms, as well as differences.
❤️❤️❤️As always, your experience of BPD or CPTSD might be reflected in some, all or none of the case study I am sharing in this video!!❤️❤️❤️❤️
BPD and CPTSD can both be very painful wounds for those diagnosed, as well as for those on the receiving end, and both are worthy of healing, support and treatment.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻💕💕💕
xo
dr kim sage
@drkimsage
www.drkimsage.com
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I was misdiagnosed with BPD before I was finally diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder and CPTSD. I found this extremely helpful in identifying the differences, thank you
That is so frustrating to deal with the misdiagnosis and constantly dealing with therapists who lack awareness of neurodivergent traits.
My entire family is on this spectrum somewhere. Ppl who grew up in a stable loving home are soooooooo lucky, wow, I can't even imagine
I feel like I have both. I fear relationships, feel inherently bad, but also have self-sabatoging behaviors and can lash out at others and then deeply regret it.
So true. I wish you the best.
Me too. Self medicated for years and now finally trying to help myself heal 😢
@@mysticgardener2704
Me too 😢
Me too😮💨 but working hard on personal growth and how I show up in my relationships💪
I honestly feel that most people with CPTSD, due to growing up with a primary care giver with BPD, have BPD (or have had BPD before personal growth). That's what they saw/taught. I think that is safe to conclude. I think that the rare exceptions are probably those that were blessed enough to somehow have the knowledge and understanding of what unhealthy and heathy personalities were and healthy and unheathy attachment styles were, at a young age. I think that some people are hurting and in denial and need to do some personal reflection.😕 Yes, I'm also the truth teller in my (generational) dysfunctional family dynamics. I have BPD and i married someone with covert narcissistic personality disorder. Just like my parents and most likely their parents etc... i realized this at age 52. After 28 years of narc abuse from my soon to be ex husband. 52 years with my parents. I knew something was wrong, but i didn't know what it was or how bad it was. I, like most, thought child abuse had to be physical abuse or obvious blatant emotional and mental abuse. I didn't know what a covert narcissist was or what codependency was. No one ever explained unheathy and healthy attachment styles to me. I never heard of any of those things bf this year on youtube. I didnt realize how damaging years of "low level" emotional and mental abuse could be. Even though I've gone to psychologists or therapist most of my adult life, including psychiatrists, religiously for the last 12 years. Idk why this stuff isn't taught in public schools K-12. Knowledge is the only way to stop this epidemic in my eyes.
I also think that "victims"/reactionary abusers need to take more ownership of the trauma and negative impact that they have caused as well. Especially for their kids' sake, in order to stop the horrible cycle. I have come to the radical acceptance (hopefully only temporarily🤞) thay I have to take the fall for any issues/flaws, in order to try to shed some light and knowledge to my kids concerning this. My 25 yr old daughter doesn't get it. The scary thing is that my husband would belittle and disrespect me right in front of our kids and I don't think that think thought much about it. So they think that is how people thay love each other treat each other. I didn't realize how damaging someone slowly chipping away at your self esteem, self worth was. It took me 52 years to figure it out. How do I expect anyone else to see it in any less time than that? I think that it will take a miracle for my narc husband to ever take any ownership or blame for anything, unfortunately. 🙁 that is the nature of that disorder😕
Me too diagnosed with c-ptsd and bpd traits
I hope in my lifetime the terrible stigma surrounding BPD is wiped out! CPTSD and BPD seem very similar. Every one deserves to heal with both diagnosis.
I totally agree. People around BPD diagnosis are too terifeid. It's like cursing. And yet CPTSD is more romantized. Still both suffer and both deserve attention and treatment.
49. Male. College educated. Had a career for over 2 decades (that I despised from the start). BPD Mother who denies having any mental illness still at age 73 and still with both of her sons having become estranged from her. Passive father who died 20 years ago in his 50s. (I believe due to chronic stress. BPD mom was emotionally cruel to all of us.) Socially isolated in early childhood. Zero friendships or trusting relationships for the first over 30 years of my life. Currently married and with my husband for 16 years but he is the last person in my life. Family has either died or been estranged due to Mom's BPD. Developed a terrible habit of dating chat in the 1990s that never let up that I finally revealed to someone (my husband) this morning in a nighttime fit of shame on my part - so my marriage may be ending soon. No friends. I literally don't know what to do. I have lost everything because of the childhood trauma and, unfortunately, didn't work out all of this until these past few unemployed years. I feel like I am mostly c-PTSD but I also feel like I have some of the unique BPD traits as well - such as self-harming behaviors (like infidelity - like denying myself things - self-isolation as a form of self-punishment...). I appear normal to the casual observer but that goes away quickly since I never had an opportunity to develop social skills. Heck, it was only a few days ago that I learned that oversharing personal information is a bad social skill. To me it was always just being open about myself. Sadly, no one tells you when you mess up socially - they just avoid you because they assumed you learned social skills when everyone else did - as a kid. I never had a time of happiness. I hated myself before I could even talk and was PETRIFIED of strangers by the time I finally met another kid that wasn't a family member at 4 years old. I tried therapy/psychiatry and was met with accusations that I was lying about my condition. Dealt with doctors who don't believe me because I am too well spoken and educated. My world has been slowly decaying since birth - but the decay has accelerated lately and I fear soon becoming homeless since my mental health has made me too scared to work for fear of losing my temper at the first sign of maltreatment or abuse at work (which might be perceived and not even real). This video did a GREAT job clarifying these two conditions - BPD and c-PTSD. It bothers me that while I think I am more on the c-PTSD side of things, I also have many BPD-unique characteristics. HOW IN THE HECK AM I EVER GOING TO SURVIVE THIS WITHOUT MONEY OR SOCIAL SUPPORT? -- I both hate myself (c-PTSD) AND fear abandonment (BPD). I would not wish the hell of an entire life of this on anyone. If there really is a physical Hell, my life is WORSE - just a chronic, life-long, slow drip of one trauma-trigger after another, day after day, decade after decade....all due to to the ways in which my growing young brain misinterpreted my emotionally crazy mother. Unaware of the cause. Miserable. ALWAYS. I don't think I have gone more than 2 days EVER without severe depression and chronic anxiety. Forever I have felt like I am in a glass box with my VERY LOUD inner critic (who drowns out any actual real world sounds), while the world goes on just outside of my reach. I want to belong but never know how to make that happen. So I run...or freeze if I can't run.
I'm just finding out about my cptsd from my bpd mother. I've always had an inner rotten critique that curses me in every situation.. Kim's videos are helping me with insights into my childhood trauma.Finally I'm learning after nearly 50 years how to deal with a lack of self-love in my mind. Never realized how much carried with me from childhood.
You are not alone and there is a way out of the spiral, first step is acknowledging your trauma and your coping mechanism, you can do it ❤❤❤
With a couple exceptions you just told my life's story. It's heart breaking and comforting all at once. No matter what happens you are not alone.
You’re not alone babe. I know it’s HARD, but let’s try to heal so we can know peace. I pray for all of us. For deep healing in our hearts. I pray for us all to have genuine self love and worthiness.
Try meditating
Okay so I've watched a million videos about this, trying to differentiate between those two and you Dr. Kim has said some brilliant things I've never heard before. After seeing too many psychologists and psychiatrists on youtube, you are the one that really put all things in order. So thank you very much, this video was so so helpful!
Thank you so much! I am so happy you found it helpful!💕🙏🏻
Ditto and she’s fantastic
Ditto. For the last couple of years I've been trying to find out what's been wrong with me for most of my life. I've looked into all sorts of things, one being autism & found that even though I have a lot of the traits, it doesn't quite sit right. There's something else or something else in addition to it. This video has explained what that something else could be. Agree, Dr Kim is brilliant.
At 64 i am so grateful that I have survived this long. I started seeking help by 15. I am so confused about the amount of diagnosis I have been given. Very little knowledge 50 years ago about Trauma. I have so much Therapy Trauma on top of having BPD AND CPTSD. Thank goodness that I have an ability to expand and somehow intuitively knew that I wasn’t what I was programmed to believe.
In my early stages of understanding, I was very suicidal with addictions. In 23 years of alcohol recovery I have progressed significantly.
I am now able to sit alone and stay present and not avoid my emotions and can be more of an Observer and can comfort my reactivity with tenderness for Self.
That's wonderful!
❤
Same
Its pretty clearly different for me because I got CPTD from having a mom with BPD. I dont see myself as being like her at all in that way.
Edit: she was one of the 10% that accidentally completed suicide. She involved me to stop her like always, but I was too late this time. I'm sharing this because it's really relevant to the dynamic described here.
Thank you for sharing - they are very different-- and it is pretty common to have CPTSD from an untreated BPD mothering experience. Please take very good care of yourself, and know you are worthy of healing and peace and well-being.🙏🏻💕
@@DrKimSage thankfully I found the best therapist who is also a Vietnam vet. A guy that really gets PTSD.
So sorry for what you have gone through. I hope you're healing.
@@DrKimSage can a partner with bpd cause QBPD or CPSTD to the other partner?
I am a survivor of repetitive violent Traumas. Most of it came from a BPD Birth Mother. The time to heal is now.
I will not let my CPTSD prevent me
from having peace and tranquility in
any department in my life today.
Therapy is a good thing.
Bravo Bill:)!!!
👏👏👏
Just on the topic of knowing who you are with CPTSD vs borderline: in some cases the parents' splitting occurs with the same person. So while one moment you are bad and horrible and awful, the next (when you're somehow meeting their needs) you are angelic, perfect, the ideal child - but you know that love is conditional and won't last. This can definitely create uncertainty for the child around their sense of self, so while shame is the dominant factor, for children of borderlines CPTSD can certainly involve some identity disturbance too. Thanks for making these videos, they're really good any very informative.
I'm in the process of disentangling my identity from my BPD mother. The biggest difference I see between us is, the vindictive behavior and when I get triggered I apologize when I come back to myself. My mother says things like "I'm sorry you're angry".
YES! "I'm sorry if what I did caused you pain." - How about, "I am sorry that I did x because it hurt you and I will try to do y in the future to try to make it not happen again." - My BPD mom - maybe yours, doesn't EVER apologize - ever - not once - for anything - but expects her children to apologize OFTEN.
I remember when I was a teen my mother loudly stating "I'm sorry. I'm not God!" That's the only "apology" I've ever gotten in my 55 years. LOL
My bpd mom never apologized and when I said I can‘t deal with her behaviour and that I want to move out she got so furious that she commanded that from now on I have to get on my knees every day and BEG for her to accept my apology. She did not let me get out, she locked me inside but some days later I just randomly escaped and ran for my life lol
Sorry, I just had to get that out of my head.
I hope you are doing better and that you have distance to your abusers so that you can concentrate on yourself. You are worth it! You are worth to be happy.
@Dinah N I don’t think it’s for bad people. I think BPD tends to look at themselves as a victim more and not accept responsibility where Cptsd thinks it’s everything is their fault (esp if growing up with BPD parents who blame others all the time)
My Mother is very damaged and was left in a home at the age of 5
She was around the house when I growing up but I was ignored or
Not given any love or attention ever, it had caused me to never feel good enough or worthy of love so I was taken advantage of in Relationships, and suffered extreme abuse
My Mother Married 3 times and always needed a Man in her life it's quite sad she cut her Family off years ago because she Married again she is very Unstable
Psychiatrist said BPD but I went to a psychologist at the same time and she said PTSD, 2 kinds of anxiety, severe depression and panic. He changed his diagnoses to hers. I recommend seeing both at the same time so you dont get the wrong diagnoses.
A psych cannot diagnose but they can write down suspected diagnoses and symptoms to get insurance to cover you. Many insurance companies often don’t cover personality disorders so therapists put what they feel covers your core issues.
CPTSD is bad… i got screwed up pretty bad in the military for not turning a blind eye to heinous crimes… combat is easy… but having my life destroyed for doing the right thing… it’s been ten years and i’m still really messed up, and its really hard.
this is literally me and my mum, i have cptsd and havent made any new friends in a long damn time as this has come to light and have left all relationships I felt unsafe in, which has left me friendless, bc with two unstable parents and no safe adults anywhere had meant I only knew how to make relationships with toxic people, ughh i hope i can find it in myself to leave my comfort zone because i LOVE talking to people and being social. thank u sm!
Because our PERSONAL BOUNDARIES are weak, we need to let go of seeking our self-worth in the judgements & opinions of others & develop own self care & self respect. For cPTSD who suffer social anxiety, it is very helpful to attend group events or join hobby or religious or political or charity groups WITH A PURPOSE. The reason for this is because instead of focusing on intense personal socializing, the group focuses on an activity. Groups working together for a purpose build relationships that are softer, more indirect, giving people with cPTSD a chance to develop HEALTHIER personal boundaries. SELF CARE is the key to healthy relationships. When we express our needs FIRST, then others wont exploit us as easily. So think about what you are interested in, then join a group & practice your interest with others. If someone says something shitty, notice it but dont engage, practice just LETTING THEM GO & keep focusing on the GROUP'S PURPOSE. Letting go of toxic people requires we become indifferent like smooth rocks that their polluted water cannot penetrate & just flows right over. Ignore the toxic people's behavior. We cannot focus on toxic people & expect them to go away, they love attention. Leave the shitty people & find better ones !So lets focus on OUR NEEDS, our creativity, our interests our own LIFE MISSION & find NEW people who SHARE our vision & interests The only way we can change is if we have a firm focus on WHERE we are going, make a PLAN & move towards your truth, your passions, your self-care!
I'm a 34 yo man, two chaotic abusive parents. Both different abuse and independently of each other. For years with no escape. I internalised alot, especially with the npd parent.
One npd for sure. Other who even knows.
How you describe cptsd. I was saying yes on every point. The first video I have come across that really explains how I feel. The why's behind the feelings, not just the symptoms.
I hope the diagnostic process I have scheduled will show this too. It's exhausting to not know and not being able to navigate out of this.
Thank you for your work :)
Thank you for posting . I had a therapist who identified me as CPTSD when I was worried I whats BPD like my mom. It was a huge step forward for me . It’s all about providing templates .
You are welcome - thank you for sharing and posting!🙏🏻🙏🏻
Yes to the templates! I feel like I need them to understand the world.
Thank you for this, I recently lost my dad this year and it opened my eyes a lot to the unworkability that this disorder brings to the home…I cannot feel anything but compassion and sadness, for myself, and especially for family members who are in the fog of my mother…how I reject and abhor everything that could have happened to her to make her this way…I know she doesn’t ‘exist’ only a figment of my imagination, but she is my birth mom and it’s so hard to see her in a clinical way but it is the only way, at least at this time in my life; that I can detach myself from her…oh mom how o wish I was there to protect you….I’m sorry I could not fix you and ..I’m happier without you I’m so sorry mom…. :(
I feel like part of the safety also comes from the absence of the parent. For example I had such an unstable and shaken foundation that I would avoid school and not go, and this snowballed to where I would have patterns of avoidance and deception at school. I would love test days not because I liked taking tests or did well, but because there were no threats from the teacher to ask me questions I didn't know the answer to (I didn't go to school or do my homework and when I was at school I wasn't ever paying attention, but doodling). I loved test days because it was quiet and I could just fill in the bubbles and make up the answers and hand in the test. It is amazing I actually even graduated high school because I didn't even understand basic concepts like studying or self discipline and basically winged everything. I thought I was stupid when in reality my life was literally chaos. That I got a bad grade didn't matter because there was no consequences at home. So a lot of the safety and scanning for threats was from the absence of my parents, where I would cope with situations I was thrown in but didn't have the tools to handle.
I had the same experience with avoidance and deception starting in 8th grade. I loved learning but I disliked getting my name called on and everything else to do with the social setting of school. I was always hyper alert and scanning for threats, which at a school with over 1500 kids can be quite exhausting. It started off with me going to the nurses’ office and developed into me walking out of school/not going at all.
Holy cow !!! You just described my experience to a T .
I have CPTSD and this has been one of the most helpful videos I’ve seen on the subject. Well done!
Same & agreed…
Thank you for these videos Dr. Sage. I love how you manage not to make BPD parents into evil perpetrators and how you give suffering CPTSD children the validation to move forward with self-healing activities despite the triggering of guilt. That was the biggest obstacle for me. I had to figure out how to not feel guilty about taking steps to improve my own mental health which of course included no longer allowing myself to be party to the crazy-making tendencies of my parents. But after I took the first step, it got easier.
👏👏👏
BPD and NPD parents are evil perpetrators .
Thank you for this comparison. I've been diagnosed with a few things for a long time, including CPTSD. But the last few years I've been working on understanding clinical narcissism and autism while not quite understanding what BPD is. You clarified essential points for me. I kinda wanted to give my mom a seemingly "lesser" degree of evil, but as far as I've ever been able to tell she doesn't worry about abandonment. She's just a vulnerable narcissist who was raised by a covert/self-righteous narcissist (who was also daily in my life), in a chain of various iterations through the maternal line. Not that it was the plan, but I was being trained to be a narcissist as well until in my tweens I developed friendships with healthy people who liked me and coached me when I needed to unlearn things. I'm grateful for the people who rescued me on time. I'm 54 and still discovering notions I harbor that come from that childhood environment.
I have been previously diagnosed with BPD and I went with it, but as time passed I felt disconnected even from the diagnosis, not in a "recovering" way but in a "I don't relate to such cluster of symptoms" way. I've always felt like a feral cat that wants to be left alone at all times for not trusting humans and lashing at the ones who do get close but suddenly move in a threatening way. I don't fear people leaving because I actually fear them getting close and I simply don't allow that to happen, no one can leave a connection that has never been made in the first place. I don't feel comfortable feeling comfortable, opening up, expressing my feelings, lowering my guard and being vulnerable. At first sign of threat I want to pack my stuff and leave, retreat back into my comfy cave of baseline depression and dissociation, not to be seen or heard of again. Although chaotic, there's still a genuine vulnerability among people with BPD that I just don't seem to have.
I really believed for a long time that I had BPD. But I think it's CPTSD. My childhood was traumatic and my adult life is spent mostly distrusting others and keeping myself protected from others but feeling like I'm bad deep down inside.
I'm confused by your statements? Is there a typo in your comment, or did you actually mean that you *are* feeling like you're bad deep down inside?
More importantly, I'm so sorry you had a traumatic upbringing, and I hope you are doing the self-care you deserve.
@@stephanier6783 no typo, yea I felt innately flawed. It's something I'm working hard to get over.
And I appreciate that, life has most definitely gotten better for me now though. I have a much better, fuller life.
@@caitlyncupples5548 I appreciate your reply. I have an older brother and sister who have BPD (our mother is a narcissist) and both have really struggled with that core feeling of "I'm bad" because that is how our perfectionistic mother treated them as little ones. Even as toddlers, she expected them to be perfect and beat them with her hand or a belt if they weren't perfect. Both used alcohol to numb those feelings of being unworthy. Both of them are genuinely kind, non-materialistic people who would give you the shirt off their backs. Our mother is the person who destroyed their lives, sadly. Both of them described their childhoods as "feeling miserable" and those miserable feelings carried on into adulthood, sadly. They both acted a lot worse in adulthood than they ever did in childhood, and it has cost them both dearly, and taken years to regroup and begin to heal from the traumas they endured.
Please just remember you are worthy of love and respect from others, and you are worthy of self-respect and self-love. Wishing you well as you continue on your path to healing.
@@stephanier6783 thank you 💗 I'm sorry to hear that about your siblings! I hope they are able to move on and live better lives!!!
@@caitlyncupples5548 Thank you
That was really brilliant and empathic. You made the differences of BPD and CPTSD, causes, symptoms and treatment very clear. I was wrongly diagnosed with BPD back in the early nineties, but it turns out I have CPTSD, have been diagnosed and am being treated for it (with EMDR which is incredibly effective). Your video has made it even clearer what I have been dealing with, and yes, it's never too late to start the healing journey (I am 61). One thing I would suggest is to slow down; it's quite deep and emotive stuff to take in, and I found my self having to stop and go back (mild dissociation perhaps??). 'Love', both for one's self and for others that have been in and shaped your life, is so much to do with understanding, exceptance and compassion.
I want to do EMDR but am having a hard time finding someone who not only does it but also that doesn't charge $300 a session! :(
Thank you so much. My mom has BPD and I worry I do, but the CPTSD definitions fit me much more accurately. Going to try and find a therapist!
You are very welcome! Therapy can be so healing - I would recommend searching for someone who specializes in trauma informed therapies:). Sending you support and strength on your journey!!
So helpful. Thank you. I experience C-PTSD from bpd parental abuse and my biggest difficulty is self-sabotage. I'm in the process of determining if I need to leave my job and begin a business doing something important to my values system. My logical brain screams "Yes, go for it! You can!" while my primal, wounded, triggery self wags a finger, reminding in a thousand insidious ways that I am bad or undeserving or an imposter, etc. It's exhausting. But, I am determined not so much to power through (as in the past), but to approach this a step at a time, leaning on DH for support and affirmation (which is difficult to accept sometimes). I should feel like an Olympian just navigating life!!! 🥴
The self actualizations I had while watching this video made me catch myself saying out loud, “OOOooh… wow… okay,” which I think implies a kind of unconscious yogic breath of release. And that’s the coolest reflection moment I’ve had in a while. Sláinte.
Hi All! I know there is so much going on right now, so I debated posting, but decided to post this video and hope you will find it helpful. Please feel free to add anything or share:). And, please take very good care of yourselves❤️🙏🏻🙏🏻.
I have part 5 (relational instability) of spotting BPD to post and then I am doing a series on:
❤️❤️❤️Relationships:❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Cheating and Affairs
Attachment and Childhood Strategies Which Can Destroy Our Relationships
What to Stop Doing In Your Relationships!
xo thank you so much for watching and posting!💕💕💕💕🙏🏻🙏🏻
I'm glad that I've lived long enough to find answers. They help. A lot.
I’m glad you’re here ❤
@@a.c.4465 Likewise.
I keep getting diagnosed with cptsd but after watching this video I really think it’s bpd… my symptoms are more suicidal and fear of abandonment, external validation…
I have cptsd and this resonates with me. I don't have a partner because I find dating and relationships very triggering. I often can't function properly if I'm dating. I've always envied people in normal stable loving relationships. One of my dreams is to find a loving partner I feel happy and at peace with.
I think defining a personality disorder as a whole will also help to tell these disorders apart. It's about the way you see the world, and yourself, and how you relate to it. Whereas in CPTSD you have PTSD over other people's behaviors and relationships in general.
I think CPTSD can trigger a BPD. I know I struggled with both and a lot of the symptoms of the BPD became so much more manageable after I took care of the trauma. But I still get dysregulated, paranoid, self-loathing, splitting, self-destructive... When the BPD is triggered.
Thank you for this! Recently made myself get a new therapist and she's leaning towards me having tendencies of both BPD & CPTSD from childhood trauma and this... Really helped me understand why she's thinking along those lines. :) I truthfully didn't even know CPTSD existed so this is super helpful.
Hey thank you! I thought I had BPD but it could just CPTSD
Same. ✌🤎
Me too!!
C-PTSD most certainly may include characteristics and traits of BPD, MDD, NPD, Bipolar Disorder, all anxiety disorders, etc.
Childhood is the time that the personality become crystalized (4-5 years of age), and our personality is built in response to our environment. So a "personality re-ordering" is almost certainly the outcome of childhood trauma which comes from our FOO's.
"Just C-PTSD" may be helpful if you're unduly blaming/shaming yourself, but the road to healing remains arduous. I wish you the best, and am glad that you are relieved by this diagnosis.
I wish my bpd mom would be open to understanding this. I can’t even approach mine about this, at this point. And I’m 50 y/o! I’m still that little girl inside. My poor mom. 💔This video is about us.
Thank you so much for clarifying. I have cptsd and I'm pretty sure my mom was bpd, but I'm not 100%. I was starting to wonder if I was bpd because of my fear of abandonment, but this clears it up. I never realized bpd had a genetic component.
Thank you so much- please know you are helping me so much. I just watch these and sob- I can’t find any therapists in my area. You have helped so much.
Thank you so much for sharing this - I am so sorry for your pain, and that the videos make you cry, but I do also hope you feel deeply validated- because you deserve to be seen and heard. Many therapists who never did online therapy before are doing so - it can matter which state you are in, so you might want to check your state rules, but perhaps you might look for someone even in another city, since so many of us are working online.🙏🏻🙏🏻
Oof... Thank you...
Good timing for me to see this right now.
I'm the child now 39 and I am currently estranging my parents... even called mother by their full first name to get them to just leave me alone and stop needling.
Glad it worked, I hope it channeled the voice of their mother...
I watched your videos on BPD first and was terribly afraid I was a hermit type BPD, turns out its C-PTSD 100%. Thank you from the depths of my soul for this video! This is absolutley what I needed so that I can continue my healing!
Same.
Do you have a video on BPD and Co-morbid Bipolar?
And how generational relationship genetics might flow from
NPD (Generation 1: Grandparent) to
BPD (Generation 2: Parent) to
C-PTSD (Third Generation: Child/Grandchild)?
My mother was always raging at us. She would hit us with kitchen utensils and or smack us around.
Brilliant - this is the first resource I have found online that frames the distinction between cptsd and bpd in terms of a relationship between people who respectively manifest one and the other. In my case my mother's bpd was the world in which I developed cptsd. I went low-2-no contact with her a long time ago; I maintain that I finally escaped from her, she maintains I abandoned her. I have subsequently become estranged (my initiative) from siblings too (we were a single parent family). The family narrative continues to construct me as bad for having "left" - that I did so out of selfishness, hate, malice, and denial of who I really am (really very bad indeed). As alluded to in Dr. Sage's talk, one of the characteristics of bpd is externalisation of intense emotions in a way that powerfully resists self-awareness, and I think in the context of parent-child/bpd-cptsd relationships it is perhaps the scapegoated child who experiences this as a chronically repetitive pattern - endless futile attempts to share some kind of insight and understanding.
Thank you so much for sharing, I am so sorry for all you've endured🙏🏻🙏🏻
I was the scapegoat. What I realized from the past is how my mother and sisters never respected me as a mature capable adult. They were always bossing me around after living on my own for many years.
Wow. You talk very fast! I was diagnosed having BPD when I was 17 and started dating would be devastated when a simple date and I longed for a relationship would end. I thought it was my fault and a couple suicide attempts (narcissistic mother that wanted me to be perfect for an image and reflection of who she wanted to present to friends). I didn't find out she was a narcissist until I was 54 years old! Then the CPTSD came in and the BPD went away because I feared relationships and isolated. So I have BOTH BPD AND CPTSD. I wish you would talk more about that instead of just comparing the differences. At 65 I am overwhelmed at all I am learning and it all makes sense now...but unfortunately, I can't go back in time and have a do over. My son won't talk to me and comes in and out of my life (only calls when he needs something) and now that I set boundaries, he hates me. 😢 I wish I knew then, what I know now. I want a do-over!!!!
I don't believe there is any healing for these disorders! I've been in therapy for decades, and I am no better off! Now, I prefer to be alone, I cannot trust anyone! My daughter doesn't want anything to do with me but I didn't have a bad relationship with her, other people talked her into not bothering with me! She was brainwashed since she was 3.
I really appreciate your videos. I am a “New Subscriber”. Everything you say in this video & all the ones I have watched it as if you are speaking to me directly. I had a tough childhood. My parents divorced when I was 8 years old. ( I do not remember them together ). My Mother was cheating on my Father. I do remember that. After She divorced my Father She moved to a different state. I am the oldest & had two younger sisters. When my Mom left, She took my middle sister & left myself & my younger 2 year old sister on my Dad’s porch, with a box of clothes. Although this was very difficult, I wanted to live with my Dad & he raised us as a single father. I feel very greatful that he was there for us as best he knew how. I am as a adult, dealing with almost everything you have mentioned in your videos. I self isolate, I have diabetes, kidney disease, I have had extreme anxiety, depression, migraines, etc……. I am in a very unhealthy marriage! Have been married for over 25 years. He is Very Controlling & Extremely critical of me & everything I do, say, don’t say, it’s just bad!! I don’t feel like a confident woman anymore. He is always “correct & things always have to be his was”. Nothing I do is good enough! Even when I feel good about something I have done. This makes him very upset & he takes that success & happiness away from me.
On March 31, 2022 my oldest daughter passed away. She was my oldest of 3 daughters. It has been so devastating to me & my life feels “out of control”. Do you have any suggestions or things that I can do to free myself from feeling like, I have failed my Daughter & myself??
Thank you so much for all your wonderful videos. 🙏 💔 😢 💫
I feel like I have both of these :/ I'm also stuck in a really longterm dissociation, chronic isolation, and I'm pretty sure I have AvPD too, heh.
same, I even have the symptoms that are conflicting with eachother somehow..
So helpful. i’ve had horrible therapist and psychiatrist and I was diagnosed with BPD after talking to a psychiatrist for 5 minutes and told to go on mood stabilizers. when I told her i didn’t believe this was case for me she dismissed me. I really think I am the CPTSD side here. I am so glad I found this. hopefully I know what to try to look for now treatment wise. It’s so sad that it’s so difficult to navigate the world of mental health and treatment. It can be so harmful for people who need help. thanks again
I know I’m not borderline, my mother loved, missed my younger, dead sister. I don’t feel I had a childhood. My mother would go,”talk about me” to any one she knew would support her. Ca
Good explainations the difference, Seems more discussions have been around Narccisim, Most dont understand BPD and Cptsd or is talked about as well. Can a Narc also be a BPD? I never felt it was may fault in my situtation. Just unstability from parents, causing trusting issues
Thank You so much Dr. Kim! You are truly one of the Good People in this sad old world, keep up your excellent, important work. I am fifty-three and just getting to confronting all of this mental clutter in my own life. Thank you for the help!
I UNDERSTAND MY WOUNDS COMPLETELY......
I GET HELP, I GET PROFESSIONAL THERAPY,
I HAVE & ALWAYS WILL GET THE BEST HELP AVAILABLE!!!!
I AM VERY SELF - AWARE!
THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO ❤❤❤
IT WAS VERY GOOD 🙏💯🤔🤔👍👍👍👍👍👍
A professor of mine suggested that PTSD from childhood traumas may always be titled as Borderline Personality Disorder while multiple traumas in adult life should be named CPTSD. Because at the core of BPD there is a bonding trauma, leading to insecure and disorganized attachment styles. There are 30% of people affected by BPD who haven't endured any kind of trauma. At least that is what statistics say but maybe those 30% just can't remember their trauma or wouldn't consider the environment in which they were raised as traumatic although it was. CPTSD on the other hand can always occur in every age and can lead to changes in personality and world view. It was at least a suggestion by him. What do you think about it?
I personally think that CPTSD is at the core of many, many disorders. Primarily Personality Disorders. I think pretty much every personality disorder stems from a complex childhood trauma in one way or another. And Borderline, Narcissism, Dependent, Obsessive Compulsive, Avoidant Personality Disorder whatever are just different ways of coping with this root trauma. Like a defence mechanism for the traumatic events. Some people react with a bloated ego, others with (self-)destructive rage, some with avoiding everything and others with being overly obsessive compulsive, neat and tidy. But they are all traumatized at the core. I'd also think that it depends on the kind of trauma. I think being shamed and ridiculed often leads to avoidance while having a feeling of losing control mostly leads to obsessive-compulsive traits. But I suppose it is also linked to your temperament how you cope with these things.
After all it is just a theory.
I agree and I think younger people studying personality disorders will do important work in creating a new psychological etymological understanding of these disorders... I am really not comfortable calling these cluster B organisations personality disorders - it seems judgement based. There are literal physiological, neurological differences.
I appreciated this comment.
I see a lot of rationale to support both these comments, and have seen similar observations posted on other sites like Schizoid Angst YT channel. I have heard references to the effect that many psychologists including Judith Herman believe that nearly all psychological problems can be explained by the CPTSD model and the DSM "reduced to the size of a thin pamphlet". It seems logical that with a few rare exceptions personality "disorders" occur on a spectrum with less severe adaptations and their respective "symptoms" differ based on genetic and epigenetic factors, temperament, and severity and specific context of attachment disruption and other environmental factors. Some have suggested that conditions such as Cluster A ( schizoid PD, schizotypal PD, and Schizophrenia) appear to occur on a spectrum and stem from a neuro-atypical physiology, similar to Autism Spectrum Disorder.
It will be interesting to see how further research influences the way the mental health profession changes in the future. In my opinion it would be most productive and humane to spend more time and resources to investigate the commonality of cause, (and the subsequent removal of social stigma) than on a continued expansion of the DSM on the basis of describing the multitude of ways a person may present the scars of abuse. Perhaps then the curse of intergenerational trauma, and so much unnecessary suffering, could finally be prevented.
I agree, I can't really believe that someone without any trauma would develop personality disorders, these are all adaptations to survive. Some people may have a higher likelihood genetically or need less severe experiences to develop it than others, but I highly doubt 30 percent have no trauma, I think they have just amnesia around it, are in denial or don't understand the emotional abuse as something that was wrong, in these cases they will have a higher likelihood to pass on their trauma....
To think that someone would have severe abandonment fears without ever having experienced early attachment woundings, at least emotional abandonment or an unsafe environment were this was a possibility growing up is pretty insane. There is always a cause.
CPTSD can also have suffer huge ababdonment wounds. I did, because my parents divorced and I was left with my NPD mum. Caretaker divorce, death, or other separation can cause a massive ababdonment wound too. But, you're right about how a bpd or cpstd handles that is different. I think there is much more severe dissociation in BPD, so much so that you could call it a case of multiple personality like NPD, where there is a "mask" state and another state (often raging and punitive to self or other). CPSTD doesn't have this much dissociation. We know who we essentially are and when we've done something wrong.
My therapist and I have been discussing borderline patterns in my parent and it's been really challenging to process, but these videos have been helping a lot. Thank you.
I can get high highs and low lows, but as soon as I feel happy I automatically feel like people prefer me sad. Like they don’t like my sense of humour, or they see that I’m happy so it’s easier to be cold to me. I don’t know I love people, I feel most happy when I’m helping someone (I work as a caregiver). But even with my residents if I feel like they like me too much I pull away and will get other staff to do their cares. I don’t like to be too vulnerable but I am fairly open. My parents were both very abusive, physically, verbally and emotionally to my sisters and I. I thought I broke the curse, but I find that I can be quite explosive at times myself.
Thank you, Dr. Sage, for this video. I have been on a healing journey over two years after an event that triggered CPTSD. It was severe enough for me to do a deep dive into why my nervous system was so affected by what happened. I really appreciate your calm demeanor and explanation. Your video is more helpful that a year of talk therapy. Thank you.
Thank you for making this ❤️
Awesome work ❤
So incredibly helpful ❤
Thank you. This helps a lot.
Thank you for posting this
This distinction really does matter and this video is very helpful!
I feel confident I suffer from CPTSD, not BPD at all.
I have a new therapist and I feel like she misunderstands me.. she seems to think I have a fear of abandonment, but when I pull away in my relationships its because of a fear of rejection/unworthiness. I struggle to feel a sense of self worth or that anyone could possibly love me.
I don't ever worry about someone leaving me; I worry they are going to change into a cruel person at the drop of a hat without any warning. I end up being the one who switches unpredictably as a way to protect myself.
I haven't experienced traumatic abandonment in my life; only experiences that lead me to believe people are generally unreliable and untrustworthy. I avoid relationships generally, but still long for intimacy. I seek connection with others, but I fear being vulnerable by expressing emotions, asking for my needs to be met, and feeling dependent on others.
Wow. This was clear cut. Thank you so much!!
This is so helpful. Thank you!
SUPER helpful, thank you!!
Excellent! Thank you.
Very perceptive and clear, thank you.
This was so helpful Dr Kim. 😍
My mom has bipolar disorder and my dad yelled at me a lot and was verbally abusive. My mom was always in the hospital and tried killing herself when I was 11. I’m 43 now and I’ve been diagnosed with C-ptsd. She isn’t very supportive emotionally neither is my dad.
❤
EXTREMELY HELPFUL. KEEP POSTING!
Your explanation is so clear thank you so much.
I feel like shit, my psychiatrist diagnosed me with quiet BPD but I don't know if I have it I don't wanna accept it, etc etc feel like I also have or I'm more likely to have CPTSD, etc I don't know my life is falling apart 😿
I’m dying laughing listening to this. Your description of cptsd (and I have a bpd mother) is so spot on for me. Very validating. Thank you.
Thank you so much, It really means a lot to me that you took the time to make this video.
U absolutely explain this better than anyone I've heard.
Thank you for this video. It helps answers so many of my questions.
I appreciate this video so much.
Thank you for this clarity. This is very helpful.
Thank you so much for this very helpful video. This was packed with so much information and it is so generous of you to put this out here. I'm going to watch it again and again because sometimes my mind wants to wonder and I have to pull it back and focus on the task. This video is beautiful! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The best explanation so far!
This has explained everything THANK YOU
Huge appreciation for this video.
This makes so much sense
Thank you. This clarified a LOT for me, which is huge. Thank you.
Very interesting thankyou Kim, love the educated information provided
Such great information-thank you for sharing your expertise.
Thank you! This differentiation was very helpful for me.
I've recognized that my dad is a covert narcissist that tries very hard to be seen as a "nice" guy. Im not sure if my mom is a narcissist or has BPD. My dad created so much anxiety in her that she took out mostly on me in order to keep up appearances to everyone else. I think both of my parents fear being seen as bad, so much that they need to always be seen as the "good" ones. Any lack of appreciation from others is seen as an attack on them.
I have a lot of the anxiety and some other characteristics that my mother has, so I have wondered if I may have BPD. Your differentiation between BPD and CPTSD help me to see that I suffer from the latter. Your descriptions of the fawn, freeze and collapse responses, in other videos, were also very helpful and very validating. Thanks again!
Thank you so much for sharing what you have learned. I found it helpful. I would have loved to hear more about the difference between a complex as is the case with CPTSD and a personality disorder. In any event though, thank you!
I cannot believe I’ve found this site. Thank you so much for your invaluable information. ❤
You explained this very difficult distinction between the two very well ! Thank you !!
This video is full of thought provoking insights! The presentation of characteristics as well as the root perspectives was very eye opening. One thing that stood out for me is the difference in the driving force ie; shame based vs fear based and their manifestions. Though subtle in nuance these distinctions make all the difference. I really appreciate what an excellent communicator you are. Thank you.
This was sn excellent discription of the differences.
Thank you for this. CPTSD describes exactly how I feel, especially with the isolation.
This was a clear video. It shows how well you know the subject. Thank you. What do you do when a patient with CPTdS withdraws and doesn’t come back?
There was a lot of information given very quickly. I'll have to listen to this a few times at a reduced speed.
For me, I'm _conscious_ of the moment when my rage turns inward. I'm conscious of the moment when the desire to lash back at my parents doing something cruel or unfair turns into "No, _I_ am the problem. I must be. I always have been", or "No, _I'm_ the one being selfish and unreasonable." And that turning inward is a survival mechanism, because I _can't_ lash out. Because my anger can't be directed at its source or I will get hurt. Because directing it at its source won't improve anything. Sometimes there _is_ no justification for turning the anger inward, I can't come up with one automatically. It just _has_ to. And those are the times the self-loathing hurts the most, that the attacks are the most direct. That they get to the "you're worthless, just die already" stage.
This is the BEST informative video differentiating CPTSD and BPD! Thank you so much Dr. Sage for showcasing these differences!
I don't want to repair any relationship with my family and frienemies. It's the worst idea to offer myself for chronic depredation.
I rather stay alone. It's not that I don't want to get along with people; I find most people incapable to have a simple and polite conversation.
I think individualism and social media have made adults see interactions like a threat, especially after the pandemic.
I see young people more natural and less robotic unless they are hooked to electric devices.
We are losing the idea of collectivities. It's all against all.
Thanks so much. You helped me understand a lot .. I was diagnosed with cpsd however was never really taught, or told the difference between certain things like you just did in this video. I have been in therapy for 16 years just watching some of your videos is helping me understand. Truly thank you from the bottom of my heart! Take care 🙏
I have both of these! I have been around all the sickest people all my life!