3D models of vases made during three experiments: disk.yandex.ru/d/71rKssBQLPEZcw We thank Pavel Krasnov for the 3D scans. 🗿 Want to support our fight against pseudoscience? Then consider becoming a patron: www.patreon.com/join/antropogenez_world Detailed article by Oleg Kruglyakov about experiments in making stone vases: vk.com/@chtomoglidrevnie-brekchiya-ot-nakada-i-i-2018-goda
if by eye observation you dont see the wonkines of your vase and you call your work even supirior to the egiptian even when you present numbers rang of ---0,7-1 on your uper part when the egiptian is 1,6-1,7 --------you dont sound scientific at all and your clame for even better centraticity is not beliveable when the video is showing a lot of mistakes of 0.5-1 mm in centraticity on defrant hight ------so well done and all the respect for your efort but you made a replica of new kindom stone work -not even close to the pre dinastic stone vases like unchartered x meaured this year that i as they recognize as modern lathe work and just think ---even if like you think god knows why that neolithic hunter gatherer worked for years making his lets say -death bed vase and lets say his technic was better then yours -how could he measured it to know that he is maintaining the same wall thiknnes when because of the negativ angels of the real vase not yours wich is nearly strate like a cilinder -he couldent even put his finger insid to feel the thiknnes and the real qwestion are -how come inteligent people can see a neolithic grave with crud artifacts from bone and flint arow heads and perfect vase like it came from a modern shop and dont recognise it imidiatly as an out of place artifact when in an iq test of spot the exeption qwestions they will preform good? it is the preconsetion -it is the sugestia ------its not by useing rational thinking what is your and the rest of the scientific world problem with the posibility of a civilasation befor us-100000 years ago in the last worm period -homo saphians existed for 100000-200000 years allready and he could developed farming and make a civilasation without any segnifisent deferant then oures my segestion for your next experiments is not to bother with hard stones -hardness is not the real isue ----acuratcy is the issue -----so copy the vase better with big negative angels and make it from soft lime stone so it will take much shorter time and without measuring through the proses only at the end and show as you can make it look like it came from a lathe-----then if you get it right you will have a proof
@@nirprizant4228 How was it determined when the pre-dynastic vases were made? Was a mainstream archaeological method used to establish that they were really pre-dynastic?
I work in ceramics, today i came back from my studio being frustrated about how steps in my projects can go wrong and how long everything takes. This video puts things in perspective.
Exactly. Having an entire industry around it as well. These guys had to not only brainstorm how to make the equipment but also how use it. Doing all of that from scratch is pretty insane.
Just purely happy to get to see this done. I work with stone and knew this to be possible and just a matter of time and effort! Great work from the crafters and the team to get all the funds and materials needed. I am sure that if you would have had the optimal materials and unlimited funds, you would have made a few of these in this time you managed to make this! I bow my head and tip my hat for you all!
Well done. It's probably also worth noting that people making these sorts of things a couple thousand years ago were possibly lifetime craftspeople who had practiced a learned technique for years and years. They weren't learning on the fly about how these processes function There is also a survival bias for the archaeological remains. Poorly crafted items are probably less likely to stand the test of time than well crafted items.
Not "possibly". They were as you alluded to representative of "professional guilds" who as indicated learned their trade starting when they were young and improved upon it over time = to pass that along to the next generation. After a few generations that level of expertise would become highly adept so long as the information is not lost and resources to perform the craft remain. Moral: the Egyptian civilization existed = for 3 millennia. While it had its' ups & downs undergoing periods of plenty and want = demand for such objects was continuous. Thus the same as today as long as someone desires a thing - someone will provide. p.s. - as a historical aside. By the time of the Persian invasion of Egypt the renown of Egyptian stonemasons was such that Darius sent Egyptian masons to help build his new capital city of Persepolis. Enjoy your day.
in ancient times we know for a fact they used lathes with electricity with super fast spinning drill bits we know this because we can see the marks that the lathes theft behind. when u do make a vase the way u made it wont have those markings disproving the very thing u are trying to prove. but still it is cool to see u can make a similar vase with really hard tools and a a lot of elbow grease...
@@unraveling-the-truth lol. I'm sorry you've been lied to by charlatans, cons, and general all around grifters. It's okay to admit that you got duped by neat sounding fantasy ideas.
Can you show the interior of the vase? Is this vase just a straight drill hole inside? The thing that amazes me about the ancient examples is the complex interior shape, contouring exactly the outer dimensions. I find it a bit odd you don't show the inside which is clearly the most astounding effect of the ancient vessels. Thanks
Why would that be the case......... The purpose of the demonstration was to show the tools/techniques employed by ancient peoples like the Egyptians worked. The aesthetic quality of what is produced however is a subjective variable as it depends upon the time and resources expended for the project as well as the relative skill level of the craftsman. Suffice to say the Egyptian craftsmen probably started as children creating these types of things so that for some by the time they were adults they would be viewed as _"master craftsmen"_ not unlike today. p.s. - consider this. If you wish to make a vase with a given shape you can approach it two ways. You can first create the outside shape and try to hollow that out. Doing this however risks fracture if your interior is intended to represent thin walls. The alternative would be to first core out what will become a vase. That way your block material stabilizes the interior shape reducing the chances of it fracturing. Then you can carefully remove material from the outside until you obtain your desired shape = and polish that to final thickness/aesthetics. This is likely the way the Egyptians did it. They removed "some" stone to obtain a semblance of the final shape while leaving enough to core out the interior without fracturing it = to then work on finalizing the exterior shape around that core.
@@varyolla435 this experiment proves that this method doesn't work, where's the precision? where's the accuracy? why aren't they attempting to carve inside? where's the consistency in wall thickness? you're basically simping for the woman who did the experiment.
@@George_Washington_ One leaves ------> another one shows us with the same inane argument....... 🙄🥱 Why not simply say you are ignorant of science and leave it at that. Apparently even a proof of concept demonstration is beyond you.
Congratulations on such a long and difficult project. I have suggestions for other experiments (hopefully easier and cheaper) - let me know if you’d like to discuss further.
I would like to see two lathe pivot points carved out of a single solid stone first ( even using modern methods to save time or a in natural stone outcropping) Then some real precision vases could be achieved.
@HistoryforGRANITE kinda disappointed, thought you’d be more objective and call this thing out for what it is…a huge waste of time that proves nothing 😂
Brilliant result, I am so impressed! The way you conducted the process, with everything carefully documented makes this an important experiment. Congratulations to all involved - I really did not think this was possible 👍🏼
Awesome You guys should send that vase to Christopher Dunn and Ben van Kerkwyk so they can analyze it and compare with their expensive metrological tools. And if they don't show a comparison, you can call it a win and expose them as frauds!
Well done, you have proven our ancestors were More than capable of working with stone. Personally I already knew they did because my culture still occasionally uses some of the techniques you've used, but it's good that you did this experiment to prove it.
Thank you so much for all of the wonderful research and dedication! We have promoted your channel in our videos and will continue to follow your wonderful reaearch ❤
Olga! You did it! Amazing! Definitely took a lot of help and a lot of effort, but you did it! Congratulations! I know you must be thankful to be done! You and your team just did something that hasnt been done in many lifetimes! You should all be proud of this accomplishment! Well done!
Where’s the precision?? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence… yall need to scan this and see if it’s as precise as original ones. Making a case proves nothing🤣🤣
Just after the 17 min point of the video they showed the comparison they did with the museum pieces. I guess you bailed out of the video b4 then because of your armchair bias
@@manbearpig710First, people said it isn’t even possible to carve into diorite or get a right angle or a circle, then they said it’s not possible to make a vase, she keeps proving these speculations wrong, one after another. Now it has to be precise on the first try? She isn’t an ancient stone mason with generations of knowledge and industry. She’s just proving that it can be done by humans with simple tech, no need for lasers. Next you’ll say it doesn’t count unless she does the whole thing again by candlelight wearing a loincloth!
Absolutely fantastic piece of experimental archeology. I'm stunned at the dedication and commitment needed to undertake and complete the work. Congratulations!
Incredible 🙌! What great dedication, patience and skill the 2 artisans had! And still, this is just guesswork to show how you don't need metal or modern tools to work diorite. The original craftspeople probably had all sorts of lost skills that we may never uncover, plus a greater workforce too. They may have been able to make the same vase in about a year or even less. But your experiment has shown what IS possible and the results are amazing!
This is super impressive. Long ago people passed down the knowledge of how to do this stuff. You had to reinvent it. Well done. Your tools and machinery is amazing.
Probably should have polished it. Alternative history people are obsessed with the smoothness of artifacts--like they don't believe in manual sanding or something.
@@nalinux However, a high speed is needed for a mirror like shine. Also the measurements they make, show how inaccurate the vase is. Give it to be CT scanned
@@7337-y2f High speed is not necessary. I've polished a lot of things just by hand, even made of iron. We have no idea where X vase comes from. Not even it's a real egyptian vase. And no vase is polished like a mirror. They just say "from a private collection".
AMAZING! I applaud you! 👏👏👏Such a monumental task. As for something i would like to see next, as you asked; A polygonal masonry experiment, in the way they did at places like Sacsayhuaman, with the techniques Vincent Lee proposes. Of course i wouldn't expect a full scale experiment, (for the sake that it would take so many hours and human lives last only so long) but maybe on a small scale to prove the concept. That would be wildly interesting!
If anything, this experiment has convinced me that this was not the way these vases were produced. I absolutely admire your dedication and patience, but your result does not even look close to the perfection of some of these ancient vases. 👍
If you were tasked with cutting down a giant redwood tree and processing it to usable lumber and then building a three story house using circa 1880 technology I suspect that the results at every level would be far from perfect. If you were tasked with replicating a Ming vase I suspect the results would be far from perfect. Big difference between what a modern experimenter can do in a proof of concept exercise and what ancient expert craftsmen could do. 6:
@Docrock-z9k I still find it very unlikely that someone would go to so much time and effort to produce so many perfect vases unless the accuracy was essential to their use. My conclusion is that the only reason they are so accurately made is because they have been produced on a machine, however unlikely. It is the only logical explanation for the consistency of the work. Accurately cut timber is produced in a mill and ming vases on a wheel.
@toomanyradsin2019 I'm unaware of any legit research that demonstrates a clear trend of perfection or even evidence of mass machine production of identical vessels. At least as it involves some sort of complex LAHT as advocated by some of the videos that have probably influenced you. If one decides to cherry pick from a vast number of vessels made over thousands of years, some of whose provenance is unclear, they will undoubtedly find a number of awe inspiring works. Besides, even now people strive for perfection all the time with things whose only use is to look perfect. Jewelry, sculpture, paintings and even things like decorative vases or bowls that people wouldn't even think of trying to use to hold something. I know some Amish carpenters who would disagree that it takes a mill, in the modern sense, and various other modern technologies to accurately work lumber and produce incredibly well done furniture or enormous barns and houses.
@@toomanyradsin2019I think you underestimate the precision that can be achieved using hardwood bearings such as the ones made of lignum vitae used in historic windmills and around marine propeller shafts. They are still used today in fact. There are simple techniques to make the bearings self-center, it's not that difficult.
Exciting. You should scan it and publish the stl file for all to see. That's the only thing missing. Considering all that work, an actual scan to make a direct comparison would be the last obvious step.
I am leaving a comment in hopes that it helps get the video more views. We need videos like this to get more views than the fictional ancient advanced technology videos.
I'm not saying you are using insulting language here in your comment but I do wonder why do people use language that will isolate people that are also seeking the truth on these things? We know that in other industries this type of language has been used to harass good Scientists and other responsible people. I got my PhD in genetic/gene therapy in Organic Chemistry and I did not want to work in the Pharma industry because it's so incredibly corrupt, with documented gigantic fines for psychopathic practices. They are easily searchable on the internet. We also see other industries such as the finance industry in 2008 that was corrupt beyond belief. Why are people using language that castigates people that ask questions? It's bizarre to me. This is the language that corrupt or dominating people use to silence people that are trying to learn. Whenever someone does this it just sows even more distrust. I'm in a profession now where I love that people ask questions. “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard P. Feynman
Is your assumption that our mainstream view of history is absolutely correct and will never change? Or is it constantly changing and pretty much been rewritten the last 30 years? Because you seem to be trying to claim some ultimate truth in a field that can completely change over night. What makes you so certain you know what has happened and what hasn’t? Honestly curious
I mean it was a valiant attempt… but I’m curious as to how the predynatic Egyptians were able to cement their workstation in place to allow them to achieve even the slightest level of precision? That’s a massive part of why she was able to do what she did… and they don’t even mention that the whole work station is cemented in place😂
@@boagski Nooo absolutely not! This is the entire point of science! We're welcoming all new discoveries. On the other hand, your theory is suggesting that Ancient Humans we're not capable of being expert craftsmen. If your people actually come to us with actual scientific work, have it peer reviewed we will gladly look into it. As of right now, all they have is a misunderstanding of history and a story.
Nice work. Are you planning on measuring the accuracy of this vase with lazer scanner tech like unchartedX did? Those comparisons would really be needed to compare and measure as accurately as they did.
Not really. Ben just needs to show multiple vases with the exact same level of precision with identical measurements as one would naturally expect if his vase was truly the product of mechanized mass-production. Otherwise, this, and other work produced by SAM, clearly demonstrates that creating these artifacts by hand is far from impossible. It is logical to conclude that by hand is most likely, IMO.
The very earliest Eygptians must have encountered all these problems and used there ingenuity and then hundreds (and thousands) of years to perfect their techniques. We may have lost how to do it over time but these experiments show how it must have been at the start.
In between catching fish, grinding grain, raising children and turning out diorite vases to order, women have carried humanity well it seems ;) Thank you all and especially Olga and Yulia for tenacity and completion. This is one excellent video and not one alien in sight!
I think it's important for perspective to note that in ancient times Egyptian stone masons WERE using cutting edge technology. Previously diorite vases were an impossibility! Putting in a lot of time and effort into making the previously impossible....possible would be a profitable venture. I suspect they could have made one of these in 6 months but of course with a team of people each handling multiple stages the production times would improve. The profits would flow and all the masters of their craft would be happy to spend the time and effort on such things.
The Sabu disk! I suspect its been carved as a plug to make a milti piece mould for making a part for a simple rope spinning machine...would be a quick project shist not being so hard to carve...I love what you do. very important for humanity debunking conmen. thanks
THANK YOU! I can now simply direct people to this video instead of me hopelessly trying to explain that no late is needed, it's simply human determination.
Important point to remember. Whatever the time factor involved in this demonstration is reflects the work = of 2 artisans - who did everything themselves. Now imagine ancient Egyptian artisans working - not individually = but in groups. Moral: the Egyptian society was organized and contained what we today call = "guilds." So whereas these women did everything themselves there was probably a workshop in ancient Egypt containing multiple people doing various tasks. So say the "apprentices" would be busy fabricating the tools perhaps from stone - or obtaining bronze tools from some local supplier - as the master craftsman focused upon their work. What we see in ancient Egypt would not be the work of some rando in a mud hut working alone. Egyptologists have in places excavated what showed to be = multi-room structures dedicated to making things - jewelry as an example. This video shows what 1 or 2 dedicated people could accomplish with the time and resources = now think about an entire civilization at work........ Enjoy your day folks.
Doesn’t discredit they were using different technics or methods to achieve these masterpieces that take almost a year to do 1. There is thousands sitting around in Egypt that blow this one away. They were either professional at what they were doing and these people are juveniles or they were able to make them from a method we are unaware of. I personally do not see groups of people 6,000 years ago sitting around day and night to make one single piece lol. And then repeat it again and again and again.
@@MichaelPK03 It does not matter what you "do not see". All that matters = is what was. Ergo there is historical evidence to indicate that the Pharaohs and temples - and likely others - employed professional castes of craftsmen. So these people were not just "sitting around" = they were paid to do exactly this. They were the equivalent of "salary workers" who received as payment food and a place to live and who could then focus only the job at hand,.
You do realize that only one person at a time could work on a vase, and the rate of material removal can only go so fast, right? At most you could speed this up by three times if you had someone working on it twenty-four hours a day.
🎯 These craftsmen were not some rando working in a mud hut. They often reflected as you noted = guilds - who passed down the knowledge and improved upon it with time. I watched a doco some time back which showed a potter in Egypt's western desert working. He had done it since he was a child and could simply by eyeballing and without tools quickly turn out "precise" pieces. He lamented how the new generation had no interest in learning the trade which required as you said apprenticeship beginning as a youth. Thus his generation was likely to be the last. Moral: these skills are inconceivable to some because of the fast-paced, "quick reward" = _"me.......me........me......"_ generation which has no patience nor desire to learn these trades anymore. They are too busy being distracted by social media and their smartphones. 🤦🤷
The first part really is the answer, and I'd ostensibly ask that of anyone from now on even before _bothering_ to engage them with technical and scientific arguments. "How much time, patience, 'grit', and _teamwork_ do you think the ancient people you talk about could have brought to bear against a project? Like, could you imagine an ancient worker working tirelessly day in and day out on a single piece for months, perhaps even years?" Nothing else. Just that. And if they say "Yikes", I say " ... yup. That's exactly what I contest they had. Time, patience, grit, and teamwork, in spades, to put into projects we hardly ever can do so on today on because our economic system is different, and is far from the only viable economic system to ever exist. But above all else - they had _love._ They had the bottomless well of drive that can only ever come from one place - the human heart and soul, revelling in the joy of creation, maximally aligned with and on Fire for its craft."
Yes an experiment I would like to see is the production of a more sophisticated lathing system. I can imagine the Egyptians used something perhaps with self-centering lignum vitae (or local equivalent) bearings and methods of powering it very strongly. A little ingenuity could even produce a back-and-forth rotary motion for lathing in between the handles. The bearings used in old windmills and in marine propellor shafts might provide insights. I believe that people who would be spending many hours a day for years on end - generations in fact - working lathes would come up with very effective equipment. Your efforts here only reinforce that. Fantastic!
Magnificent work! Too bad there always will be some who will srceam 'aliens' and other stupidity of that scale, despite thousands of hours of the hard work put in this incredible experiment. Once again, magnificent work!
Fantastic work! 👏👏👏 I first came across one of these vases in the Archeological Museum in Athens and was completely mesmerized! When I asked the museum’s guard “how?”, she just said, “we’re not sure”. Lately I’ve been binging the videos from UnchartedX (which are quite entertaining) but doesn’t really answer any questions, and doesn’t seem to be particularly scientific. Thanks for clearing my mind!
Are there any metrology results about the accuracy and tolerance on the vase? The incredible accuracy was the most interesting point in measuring the authentic vases.
Accuracy is relative really. If you measure an Egyptian vase thousands of years after the fact based upon a measurement system unknown to the Egyptian craftsmen = what have you supposedly proven - beyond a certain object has certain dimensions. Have you proven the craftsman sought to arrive at that dimensional outcome - no. Have you linked your measurements to any specific known technique reflected by the historical record - no. Then all you have achieved is to measure a vase = and make a lot of conjecture-based declarations....... - think about it. Ben's argument is premised upon a flawed approach. It is as alluded to by others nothing more than an incredulity-based argument premised upon flawed assumptions for his part. It is perfectly plausible for a master craftsmen to fashion an object which later reveals to have certain dimensions then unknown to the craftsman who worked based upon aesthetics rather than achieving specific dimensional outcomes. This means whatever the dimensions is what they are = that being happenstance.
@@forrfuun8470 Incapable of reading then I see....... Typical of course for the Ben fanboy club. p.s. - have Ben turn over his vase = to an outside independent evaluator....... Then you can at least say the measurements were done properly - though you will still have the problem I noted. Moral: measuring a vase only gives you = measurements....... - not supposed origin or not.
@@varyolla435 What ? This is response to me? Dude you resoning is floved. You conflicting precision with measurement type. And completely misunderstood Ben's and other arguments. I reposnded to you absurd claim and you projecting crazy shit on me. Wow.
Its fucking ridiculous that these people think you could possibly replicate the work of people who dedicated their lives to the craft. This wasnt the work of some person in a sand dune. they we're master craftsmen. Very well done. Love the content.
Two years and two months for a master craftswomen to create one small vase, amazing. I wonder what knowledge the crafters from 4000+ years ago would think of her work, it is fascinating to think about how much time they committed to the hundreds if not thousands of stone vases we have found, they must have had very well perfected techniques to do so.
Pre-dynastic Egyptians made the vases from the hardest stone. What do you think the population was at that point, and is there any evidence for an industry of vase making? Why spend months polishing the insides like we see on many pre-dynastic vases? Why spend even 3 months working on one vase 6,000 years ago? How did they have the time to survive, as well as make tens of thousands of vases? People seem to think that ancient people had endless time to devote to artistic pursuits. Those people have no idea how much effort goes into procuring enough resources to survive today, let alone 6000 years ago.
Like it or not, this is how it is done. I mean the process of testing hypotheses and experimenting with materials and methods. The fact that a drill made of bone or antler along with a sand slurry containing quartz, corundum, etc. can bore a hole in granite, is something I never would have thought. Thanks SAM!!!
Thank you so much for this labor, that’s real science. The vase is absolutely beautiful. Will support the next experiment. Is there a merch store to support in the meantime?
So no critical thinking then........ - got it. Also that confirmation bias is a bytch is it not. Moral: you apparently view yourself as the supposed center of the Universe deciding what is fact from fiction = good luck with that delusion.......... I assure you however facts will remain facts regardless. _"You are entitled to your own opinions = _*_NOT_*_ your own supposed facts"......_
You’re doing exactly what those that came after the pre dynastic Egyptians did. They tried to emulate and resulted in cases that just don’t compare quality wise. For starters, you wall is more than cm thick while some of the vases measured were in the MM under. The bases ask had a round core while yours seems to be a cylinder, … It’s a good a tempt, no one will argue that with enough time and enough sand you can sculpt whatever out of anything. The problem is time of production. The older intime you look, the better the craftsmanship was with the stone vases. I love these experiments bc it just shows that we don’t know the whole picture.
You appear to believe that the Egyotians did not have great quality work throughout their history. You are also ignoring the fact that this experiment was performed by novices instead of masters who had many years of experience in a stone working industry.
@@Eyes_Open wrong. What I’m trying to say is that the older we look the better the craftsmanship and quality of the stone work becomes. UnchartedX has shown examples of high quality hieroglyphs being over written by more “recent” ancient Egyptians and the quality of work is vastly inferior. The problem here seems to be that you think that lost tech must imply aliens when in reality, people who do stone work (like me) just have a difficult time understanding how they were able to make such vases with such precision and finish. It’s not a matter of time bc if that was the case then anything is possible. Time is the same excuse writers in movies come up with to solve bad writing. These people had better way to cut, grind and polish hard stones. Its upsetting that Modern archaeologists think that the most there people could come up with was sand and rope , flint and pounding stones.
@@I_like_science Again, you are saying older is better (general paraphrase) because UX points at certain objects or areas. Study the complete picture and see the reality. See the amazing craftsmanship in evidence throughout dynastic Egypt and take into account the societal and economic downtimes and subsequent rises. Using the argument of precision vases based on objects of unproven authenticity is anti-scientific in the extreme. Remember, UX himself told you that he quit a full time job to devote himself to his version of ancient history study. He does not demonstrate supported evidence or claims. How does he fund his activities?
🤦 You've shown us you can 🦜- but not that you can actually "think"....... Also pointing to Ben's comical claims does not lend validity to your non-argument. Consider the following. Michelangelo created both the Tondo Pitti and the Pieta. One is a visual masterpiece whereas the other is a "so-so" sculpture........ = why?? Answer: the Tondo Pitti was a "quickie" piece to be sold whereas the Pieta was created for a wealthy cardinal's tomb. Hence the Pieta saw more effort and resources brought to bear in its' creation. Moral: you get what you pay for = then as now....... So Egypt existed directly for about 3 millennia and continued under foreign occupation. During those centuries it underwent periods of "plenty" and periods of "want". Thus like with Michelangelo craftsmen having time and ample resources might create aesthetically stunning work - while at other times having less of these things they create "so-so" work consistent with what their patron could afford. This video simply showed the tools/techniques = work - and it accomplished that. These artisans however likely do not create Egyptian style art for a living - unlike ancient Egyptian craftsmen. Further they would not from the time they were children learn their craft employing tools and techniques developed over = generations........ These 2 did everything themselves while the Egyptians worked within guilds who were supported by various entities. Pharaohs or wealthy temples etc. maintained their own workforce. p.s. - give us a specific artifact reflecting high quality work mixed with "lower quality hieroglyphs" and we can discuss what we see. As with all things each much be considered on its' own evidence. Be warned however not to assume the same craftsmen who created a thing also did the writing upon it as that was not necessarily the case.
@@varyolla435 How are people so bad at reasoning? Your explanation would be plausible if we saw a rise and fall of quality throughout the ages. However, the best quality work is _only_ found in older epochs. Now, because I know you'll think it, that does not mean that every old artifact is of high quality. It just means that the pre-dynastic Egyptians, 6000 years ago, achieved feats that even the height of the dynastic era couldn't/didn't replicate. Technology doesn't progress in a smooth, linear manner, but neither does it regress across spans of thousands of years. The boxes in the Osiris shaft are an example of lower quality hieroglyphs essentially scratched into a much higher quality work. It's interesting that you say that the craftsman who made an artifact isn't necessarily who wrote on the artifact, because that's what we've been saying for a long time. Writing is not a reliable method to date the construction of an object or building. Yet that is exactly what is used to date many artifacts and constructions. The Great Pyramid was dated using one piece of writing on a wall in a void above the king's chamber, and a document showing the delivery of casing stones. Until they found a piece of wood in an undisturbed place inside the pyramid semi recently. When it was carbon dated it returned a date at least 500 years earlier than the accepted timeline of construction. Did you even know that the official timeline was pushed back at least 500 years? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't. It's not the kind of thing that Egyptologists shout from the mountaintops, even though they probably should. Even that doesn't necessarily show a construction date, just the date of the earliest known habitation.
I think it would be a better technique to FIRST drill the hole through the block, as the block is then at its strongest and easiest to keep stable, and if it breaks or imperfections are noted within, it is probably always going to break or be unusable. Then, with the hole drilled, fill it with a wooden shaft and glue it in place throughout providing support to the piece. Then turn it on the lathe as you did horizontally using the axil as the center point. I dont know if that is how they did it, but with my experience in carpentry, that is how i would do it. This way digging the shaft hole isn't endangered by already thin walls from cutting vase shape, the glued-in shaft supports the stone around the delicate parts when being reduced to the vase size, and using the shaft as the center helps with gaining symmetry when lathing the vase.
🎯 Better to remove some exterior material so as to achieve a rough outline of what you want to then core out the center. That way as you say the thicker walls will stabilize the block allowing you to remove material from the center with less chance of cracking the walls. Then you can carefully remove material to form the final wall dimensions - your interior already having been formed.
The amount of fanboys getting triggered by you guys doing the experiment was indeed glorious, especially since uncharted x was crying for people to replicate dynastic vessels.
Yeah he’s looking for precision I’m not seeing it here. All of us on the alternative side said u CAN make these by hand but u can’t get the precise measurements the real ones have… yall don’t pay attention at all…. Keep up
@@manbearpig710 You must be new to the grift of lost high tech. I do remember quite vividly when people were arguing the Egyptians couldn't work granite and diorite, then it changed to - they surely can't make stone vessels, now it changed to - we never denied they can't make vessels. It's a constant movement of goal posts, typical of the fringe community. In all honesty ask yourself this, would it be a surprise if the first experiment in diorite was not as good as the best diorite vessel from the entire Egyptian history?
@@MrAchile13 you must be new to mainstream… see I can do the same thing. I used to be mainstream until the cases came out cuz I’m a cnc operator. Plz go to school for CNC then come back and talk to me friend
@@MrAchile13 also no surprise at all besides the scans that show it was made on a lathe lol or parts of it were. Pretty sure Egyptians didn’t have the wheel. See mainstream is wrong they had the wheel obviously
Unfortunately, I doubt this will change many minds at this point. Detractors will simply say the results are not 'precise' enough. They find it easier to believe that there were high tech power tools provided by Atlantis rather than a thriving industry of highly skilled craftsman. It's insane but that's humanity for you.
Hi, this is a really interesting and impressive experiment, and I love the finished product! I have a question about ancient stone carving though. I'm trying to replicate carving granite with flint. I am using a wooden mallet and have tried numerous techniques, such as striking with different strengths, holding the flint at different angles, and using different flint shapes, but no matter what I try, I can't seem to carve the stone without the flint completely shattering. Do you have any tips on how to successfully carve granite with flint? Also, have you tried using other stones such as dolerite to make chisels? I don't have any dolerite and would love to see if a dolerite chisel would cut granite, and if so, how effectively it would work compared to flint.
Maybe you are too impatient and work with too much force. I think with granite it is not so much cutting away, as it is slowly pulverizing a fraction of a millimeter at a time. At least, that is what it looked like when I saw a video of guys making a granite temple in India. They were using metal tools, but they were beating super softly, you didn't see them chipping away rock with every stroke.
These experiments is to answer the first demand: the claim that it is impossible to make a vase in granite or diorite because the stones are too hard to carve into with the known primitive techniques. She has proven that it IS possible to make a vase in the same style and with even more primitive tools. With generations of knowledge and methods, and decades of experience, her vases would be absolutely perfect. ALSO, we do not know if the ancient Egyptian vases were symmetrical or perfectly precise, since none have ever been measured to have perfect perimeters. There have been private vases measured that claim to be the real things, but with no proof of their origin except "trust me" we cannot say these are official ancient Egyptian vases. Especially because fraudulent replicas are common in private collections. If the vases that have perfect parameters are proven to be authentic (though we don't have any proof they're authentic), then it would mean they had some amazing craftsmen among them capable of jaw dropping talent in stone. Every society has a few artists capable of things others can't do. The only way to prove that there was some impossible feat, would be if all or even most of the vases were perfectly precise and symmetrical. But 1 or 2 perfect ones among 40,000 imprecise ones? That doesn't prove anything.
@@davidcryer2226 Maybe we wouldn't have this particular video but we'd still asked the same questions and figured out the answers. I could live without this video if it meant those nutjobs didn't get Netflix specials.
@@CASTSTONE No one was interested in this testing until people like Ben made claims that it was impossible to make without "high-tech". No one would have been funding without the allure of proving him wrong. Even the origins of things like double-blind testing have their origin in testing mesmerism and homeopathy. As much as you want to rubbish it, real advances are made because of the existence of "pseudoscience"
@@davidcryer2226 So what, this vase didn't need to be made, anybody with a brain realizes that if you can cut a tiny bit of dorite then you can cut a lot, you don't need to actually do it to know it is possible if you have somewhat of a brain. But that is not the world we are living in, unfortunately.
gotta be kidding right...🤣🤣🤣 Their "measurements" were done with a pencil case they took from Olgas 8 year old daughter.. a god damn green ruler and some tweezer thing with tape on it. Not a single parameter that they measured was applied to Uncharded x vase. Not one lol. "side diameter with handles" Bogus arbitrary measurements that don't mean anything. If someone forged a toyota door in a fire and hammered it out in their garage does that mean toyota makes their doors in a fire with hammer in their garage? Lidar scan that thing, its mangled 100000000 % and has nothing in common with the vases scanned. Poor woman, ground that thing for years. Fucking madness. The first vase in human history that was made this way. 🤣🤣🤣
@@postholer . All you need is some random numbers written out. And the conclusion at the end. "we did it! we debunked it!" Science for the mentally challenged. 🤣🤣🤣
I would like you to make a primitive lathe out of a solid piece of stone to hold the work firm. Then make a vase using flint and arsenic bronze tube drills
This was an impressive experiment. I was really interested in the turning machines you had to create. Also I wanted to know if you compared the mathematical maps shown on the real Egyptian vases with the vase you crafted? I am referring to the study made by unsigned io showing the golden number, sphere, radians and triangles.
Hardly - have you actually seen some of those statues? the sheer perfection of facial features both in detail and symmetry and don't forget the size of them too where imperfections would show up. How about the vases where the material is so thin you can shine a light through it? Please explain the saw cut that went off line by several inches - was it just a really fast chiseller? Striations on surfaces obviously caused by a circular saw of some kind. Flinders Petrie documented all of this before RUclipsrs saw a revenue stream. I could go on and on but it's probably pointless.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 Craftsmanship is like magic to some people. The vases that are transparent have to do with the type of stone and power of the light lol. I know exactly the nonsense you're talking about. Nevertheless, SGD made a dish of *granite* so thin it was transparent enough to see light through it. You need to stop drinking the woo-woo kool-aid bud.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 The bunk argument about the striated lines has been debunked by SGD as well. I reckon you'd get a lot out of the documentary Ancient Presence did. It was about the Serapeum but they showcase SGD and this channels experiments. You also don't use a chisel to cut lines like that. Use some common sense lol. You'd use a saw.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 SGD also made a *Granite* dish so thin you can see light shine through it. No woo-woo magical nonsense required. Many of the pseudoscience narratives also talk about stones with natural transparency. Moot point.
I don't understand. Did you think that people like me were claiming that ancient people couldn't work hard stones like this? The claim is that they couldn't have made a vase with the precision and accuracy we see on many pre-dynastic Egyptian vases, or objects like the schist disk.
There are many people saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a vase with the known tools. They say even a poorly made one is not possible. Ben from Uncharted X has said this, he has said copper cannot cut into granite. Precision is another topic. Which vases have been proven to be perfect? None of the official ones. A couple from a private collection with no proof that they are not replicas made recently. Most of the 40,000 vases found buried have obvious asymmetry and flaws. The schist disk for example is not even visibly perfect, each hole is a different size, it is a simplistic tool. The thickness varies around the disk, and the folds are different sizes.
the way youve just bored a hole in the top is just hialrious, the actual vases follow the contour of the vase. Clearly those walls arent as thin as the others and no where near as accurate.
Actually the vases come in all sorts of thicknesses. The claim tested here, which was once a very vocal claim, was that you can't sculpt diorite without diamond. That has been proven false.
@@danielfallu5716 I haven't heard one person claim that you can't sculpt diorite without diamond. I have literally not even seen one person write that down until I read your words. I've been into this topic since 2009. Did people claim this in the 90s or 00s? Seems like a massive waste of time.
Fantastic work 👏 congrats to all, amazing effort 👌 just ignore the haters there any jealous and probably mentally challenged 😅 I can't wait to whatever ideas you come up with, I suppose a pyramid might be a little big 😅😅😅 anyway I loved the show I loved all your work thank you God Bless 🙏🙏🙏🦘
Incredible endeavour,amazing work,,would be interesting to concider what crystals/sand were available to these ancient craftsmen ie,diamond ,corrundum,topaz,or garner.i think the drills could have been whole corrundum crystals
in my opinion, why it does look somewhat alike your vase does not infact hold exact wall thickness all the way around or display see trough properties from being this enough to do so. all in all while this is somewhat cool it does not conclusively prove anything, if anything it proves you cannot make vases and other stuff as found from ancient egypt by hand
This was there first try. Give them generations of knowledge, a lifetime of working the craft, that good good Pharoah money, and about a hundred failed vases and a few would be perfect. Multiple this by a hundred workers and there you go.
@@SockAccount111 Oh, you absolute fuckwit. Why must you lie, and say that people are claiming it was aliens? You are just a liar, nothing more. Your word is worthless.
Another thing you guys might try out. The 12 angle stone in Cusco is also diorite. There's an excellent paper written on it called "On the reddish, glittery mud the Inca used for perfecting their stone masonry" I assume you might have already seen/read it. It involves a special chemical treatment that might have been used. The author of the paper indicates experimental archeology should be performed. To be honest, I think he's on to something. Might be more than just the Inca. Definitely worth a shot. Do be careful though!
The amount of work you guys did just to explain to dumb people something is a bit sad... But glorious ! You actively fight against pseudo-science. That's noble. Thank you !!
This experiment shows that the ancient society must have been well structured to allow artisan craftspeople to allow them the time to focus on the project.
Impressive work. The unexplained aspects of the predynastic vase Uncharted scanned is that all radii can be collapsed to a single equation [R(n) = (sqrt (6)/2)^n] across twelve powers, the collinearity of the holes, alignment of separated planes (e.g. top and bottom), etc... Without going through the final step of structured light scanning and finding the deviation between primitive shapes and this final vase there's no conclusion to be drawn, other than it's possible to make a granite vase with primitive tools if given enough time. I'd be grateful if someone can provide the link for the 3D models referenced at the very end of the video, I'll happily download them and check these measurements for myself in Fusion 360 (and what instrument was used to scan them?)
@@swirvinbirds1971 Not really. It's similar to the how people think of pareidolia. People think the dispute is wether the cloud looks like a rabbit or not, but thats not the actual dispute. The cloud does look like a rabbit. The dispute is wether that shape is the result of intention or mindless forces. Similar thing here. Those patterns do exist, but were they put there intentionally, or is it just a coincidence?
@@spracketskooch has nothing to do with seeing shapes in the clouds. Of course the vase is a result of intention as it was made to look that way. Again Ben is playing math games and him and his 'team' have been very shady about the whole thing even to the point of blatant lies about the vases.
Wow finally! I've been waiting for this for so long. Well done, this proves a lot. So so glad that you guys went as far as to measure the real thing and compare, and that the results were even more accurate! That's huge. Now the question is that did they really spend this much time on one item? Did they have lot more sophisticated setup? Maybe weighted drills operated by camels? Was this a mass production industry or was this very exclusive and expensive, made to order for the richest people that lived at the time?
This is very misleading. The aspect of the vases that is still not explained is the geometric continuity of the surfaces. I don't think anyone argued the dimensions could not be replicated by hand.
You are starting with the assumption that UnchartedX has vases that should be considered as a reference point for any further discussion of this topic. He has claims and needs to frame his claims against the reference of authentic artifacts. This channel showed that it is possible to make a vase with simple tools and methods by self taught individuals.
@@Eyes_Open if anything they proved that replicating the continuity is not possible by hand. Everyone already knew you could make a vase like this by hand, the whole experiment is a strawman.
@@mikestaub The original claims were that everything was impossible. Then the fraudulent claims had to be walked back because they were so obviously false. Now the claim has changed to make people think that there are objects with mystical level precision which are impossible to recreate with known methods. No proof of authenticity, no proof of the negative claim of impossibility. This channel easily shows otherwise.
@@NinjaMonkeyPrime If his sculptures also had G2 Continuity then yes I would say it was also machined. Humans simply cannot manually carve that level of accuracy with our nervous systems, it requires precision machines.
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3D models of vases made during three experiments: disk.yandex.ru/d/71rKssBQLPEZcw
We thank Pavel Krasnov for the 3D scans.
🗿 Want to support our fight against pseudoscience? Then consider becoming a patron: www.patreon.com/join/antropogenez_world
Detailed article by Oleg Kruglyakov about experiments in making stone vases: vk.com/@chtomoglidrevnie-brekchiya-ot-nakada-i-i-2018-goda
please pin this comment
What was the precision of these vases compared with the OG vase? 🤡
if by eye observation you dont see the wonkines of your vase and you call your work even supirior to the egiptian even when you present numbers rang of ---0,7-1 on your uper part when the egiptian is 1,6-1,7 --------you dont sound scientific at all and your clame for even better centraticity is not beliveable when the video is showing a lot of mistakes of 0.5-1 mm in centraticity on defrant hight ------so well done and all the respect for your efort but you made a replica of new kindom stone work -not even close to the pre dinastic stone vases like unchartered x meaured this year that i as they recognize as modern lathe work
and just think ---even if like you think god knows why that neolithic hunter gatherer worked for years making his lets say -death bed vase and lets say his technic was better then yours -how could he measured it to know that he is maintaining the same wall thiknnes when because of the negativ angels of the real vase not yours wich is nearly strate like a cilinder -he couldent even put his finger insid to feel the thiknnes
and the real qwestion are -how come inteligent people can see a neolithic grave with crud artifacts from bone and flint arow heads and perfect vase like it came from a modern shop and dont recognise it imidiatly as an out of place artifact when in an iq test of spot the exeption qwestions they will preform good?
it is the preconsetion -it is the sugestia ------its not by useing rational thinking
what is your and the rest of the scientific world problem with the posibility of a civilasation befor us-100000 years ago in the last worm period -homo saphians existed for 100000-200000 years allready and he could developed farming and make a civilasation without any segnifisent deferant then oures
my segestion for your next experiments is not to bother with hard stones -hardness is not the real isue ----acuratcy is the issue -----so copy the vase better with big negative angels and make it from soft lime stone so it will take much shorter time and without measuring through the proses only at the end and show as you can make it look like it came from a lathe-----then if you get it right you will have a proof
@@nirprizant4228 How was it determined when the pre-dynastic vases were made? Was a mainstream archaeological method used to establish that they were really pre-dynastic?
@@russellmillar7132yes -and some were found in neolithic graves ---- and the ones that are presice like they came out of a lathe are the issue
I work in ceramics, today i came back from my studio being frustrated about how steps in my projects can go wrong and how long everything takes. This video puts things in perspective.
lol surely.
Being able to cement your workstation into place is a big first step that they just so happen to not mention😂 seems a little bit dishonest to me
Imagine how much faster you could have done this if your parents and grandparents were stonemasons and had perfected techniques
Exactly. Having an entire industry around it as well. These guys had to not only brainstorm how to make the equipment but also how use it. Doing all of that from scratch is pretty insane.
and if you had a team taking care of all the tool manufacturing
and working shifts round the clock
That's a pretty good compliment for these people in the video.
I'd like to see how they made the Schist disc.
Just purely happy to get to see this done. I work with stone and knew this to be possible and just a matter of time and effort! Great work from the crafters and the team to get all the funds and materials needed. I am sure that if you would have had the optimal materials and unlimited funds, you would have made a few of these in this time you managed to make this!
I bow my head and tip my hat for you all!
Thanks!
If Pharaohs could be resurrected, and shown what you have sacrificed and accomplished, they would bow to you in humility.
From Egypt, I bow to you.
lol no
Well done.
It's probably also worth noting that people making these sorts of things a couple thousand years ago were possibly lifetime craftspeople who had practiced a learned technique for years and years.
They weren't learning on the fly about how these processes function
There is also a survival bias for the archaeological remains. Poorly crafted items are probably less likely to stand the test of time than well crafted items.
Not "possibly". They were as you alluded to representative of "professional guilds" who as indicated learned their trade starting when they were young and improved upon it over time = to pass that along to the next generation. After a few generations that level of expertise would become highly adept so long as the information is not lost and resources to perform the craft remain.
Moral: the Egyptian civilization existed = for 3 millennia. While it had its' ups & downs undergoing periods of plenty and want = demand for such objects was continuous. Thus the same as today as long as someone desires a thing - someone will provide.
p.s. - as a historical aside. By the time of the Persian invasion of Egypt the renown of Egyptian stonemasons was such that Darius sent Egyptian masons to help build his new capital city of Persepolis. Enjoy your day.
in ancient times we know for a fact they used lathes with electricity with super fast spinning drill bits we know this because we can see the marks that the lathes theft behind. when u do make a vase the way u made it wont have those markings disproving the very thing u are trying to prove. but still it is cool to see u can make a similar vase with really hard tools and a a lot of elbow grease...
@@unraveling-the-truth lol. I'm sorry you've been lied to by charlatans, cons, and general all around grifters.
It's okay to admit that you got duped by neat sounding fantasy ideas.
@@unraveling-the-truth there is no such markings, and no that is not a fact thats is a lie
those vases were found in hunter gatherer tumbs -----no real craft men existed yet usualy everybody new to make everything in the culture
Can you show the interior of the vase? Is this vase just a straight drill hole inside? The thing that amazes me about the ancient examples is the complex interior shape, contouring exactly the outer dimensions. I find it a bit odd you don't show the inside which is clearly the most astounding effect of the ancient vessels. Thanks
Why would that be the case......... The purpose of the demonstration was to show the tools/techniques employed by ancient peoples like the Egyptians worked. The aesthetic quality of what is produced however is a subjective variable as it depends upon the time and resources expended for the project as well as the relative skill level of the craftsman.
Suffice to say the Egyptian craftsmen probably started as children creating these types of things so that for some by the time they were adults they would be viewed as _"master craftsmen"_ not unlike today.
p.s. - consider this. If you wish to make a vase with a given shape you can approach it two ways. You can first create the outside shape and try to hollow that out. Doing this however risks fracture if your interior is intended to represent thin walls.
The alternative would be to first core out what will become a vase. That way your block material stabilizes the interior shape reducing the chances of it fracturing. Then you can carefully remove material from the outside until you obtain your desired shape = and polish that to final thickness/aesthetics.
This is likely the way the Egyptians did it. They removed "some" stone to obtain a semblance of the final shape while leaving enough to core out the interior without fracturing it = to then work on finalizing the exterior shape around that core.
@@varyolla435 okay shill
@@pondlakes Yet what am I = supposedly shilling...... Stick to your video games kid. 🤭
@@varyolla435 this experiment proves that this method doesn't work, where's the precision? where's the accuracy? why aren't they attempting to carve inside? where's the consistency in wall thickness?
you're basically simping for the woman who did the experiment.
@@George_Washington_ One leaves ------> another one shows us with the same inane argument....... 🙄🥱 Why not simply say you are ignorant of science and leave it at that. Apparently even a proof of concept demonstration is beyond you.
Congratulations on such a long and difficult project. I have suggestions for other experiments (hopefully easier and cheaper) - let me know if you’d like to discuss further.
I think for the next project they should build the great pyramid 😂
I would like to see two lathe pivot points carved out of a single solid stone first ( even using modern methods to save time or a in natural stone outcropping) Then some real precision vases could be achieved.
@@Saiphs will you be paying for it? Lmao
@HistoryforGRANITE kinda disappointed, thought you’d be more objective and call this thing out for what it is…a huge waste of time that proves nothing 😂
This is awesome! So nice to see the final result, as well as all the effort/processes/techniques you all put into making this vase a reality.
Brilliant result, I am so impressed!
The way you conducted the process, with everything carefully documented makes this an important experiment.
Congratulations to all involved - I really did not think this was possible 👍🏼
Congratulations to all involved, especially the two lady artists!
Thanks
I hope your vase ends up in a museum alongside historical artifacts, as well as an explanation of the experiment.
since Ben and Dunn popularised the vases the price went up alot. What is the price?
Absolutely!
Awesome
You guys should send that vase to Christopher Dunn and Ben van Kerkwyk so they can analyze it and compare with their expensive metrological tools. And if they don't show a comparison, you can call it a win and expose them as frauds!
Well done, you have proven our ancestors were More than capable of working with stone.
Personally I already knew they did because my culture still occasionally uses some of the techniques you've used, but it's good that you did this experiment to prove it.
Incredible! Very well done, thank you for showing the truth. 👍👍
Wellcome!
Amazing work, thank you so much for your hard work and showing what can be done with enough time and motivation!
Experimental archeology is awesome!
A large thank you! Amazing work. Can't wait to share this video 😊
Thank you so much for all of the wonderful research and dedication! We have promoted your channel in our videos and will continue to follow your wonderful reaearch ❤
Wellcome!
Olga! You did it! Amazing! Definitely took a lot of help and a lot of effort, but you did it! Congratulations! I know you must be thankful to be done!
You and your team just did something that hasnt been done in many lifetimes! You should all be proud of this accomplishment!
Well done!
Thanks!
Where’s the precision?? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence… yall need to scan this and see if it’s as precise as original ones. Making a case proves nothing🤣🤣
Just after the 17 min point of the video they showed the comparison they did with the museum pieces.
I guess you bailed out of the video b4 then because of your armchair bias
@@stephenhealey5528 yeah it was nowhere as accurate
@@manbearpig710First, people said it isn’t even possible to carve into diorite or get a right angle or a circle, then they said it’s not possible to make a vase, she keeps proving these speculations wrong, one after another. Now it has to be precise on the first try? She isn’t an ancient stone mason with generations of knowledge and industry. She’s just proving that it can be done by humans with simple tech, no need for lasers.
Next you’ll say it doesn’t count unless she does the whole thing again by candlelight wearing a loincloth!
Absolutely fantastic piece of experimental archeology. I'm stunned at the dedication and commitment needed to undertake and complete the work. Congratulations!
Thanks!
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise that the diorite cracked in half. A larger vase might have taken much longer to finish? Thank you for doing this!
I was totally buying into the ancient advanced tech and I'm a physics major. It's waaaay cooler to think this was done by hand. That's real magic
It was not done by hand…
@bilgzmcr7035 you actually don't know anything, noone does
Incredible 🙌! What great dedication, patience and skill the 2 artisans had! And still, this is just guesswork to show how you don't need metal or modern tools to work diorite. The original craftspeople probably had all sorts of lost skills that we may never uncover, plus a greater workforce too. They may have been able to make the same vase in about a year or even less. But your experiment has shown what IS possible and the results are amazing!
This is super impressive. Long ago people passed down the knowledge of how to do this stuff. You had to reinvent it. Well done. Your tools and machinery is amazing.
I read dorito vase and I'm not proud of it
Doritos are triangles...thus clearly lost ancient high technology....it's understandable
There's no way they could make Doritos with copper chisels! They must come from Atlantis!
Once you pop you cant stop.
Probably should have polished it. Alternative history people are obsessed with the smoothness of artifacts--like they don't believe in manual sanding or something.
Same idea.
Polishing is not difficult, it just takes time.
@@nalinux However, a high speed is needed for a mirror like shine. Also the measurements they make, show how inaccurate the vase is. Give it to be CT scanned
@@7337-y2f High speed is not necessary.
I've polished a lot of things just by hand, even made of iron.
We have no idea where X vase comes from. Not even it's a real egyptian vase.
And no vase is polished like a mirror.
They just say "from a private collection".
Hpw do you explain the one that stands on end like a boiled egg spinning? @nalinux
Or the shist disk?
AMAZING! I applaud you! 👏👏👏Such a monumental task.
As for something i would like to see next, as you asked;
A polygonal masonry experiment, in the way they did at places like Sacsayhuaman, with the techniques Vincent Lee proposes. Of course i wouldn't expect a full scale experiment, (for the sake that it would take so many hours and human lives last only so long) but maybe on a small scale to prove the concept. That would be wildly interesting!
Great suggestion. I'd love to see that too.
If anything, this experiment has convinced me that this was not the way these vases were produced.
I absolutely admire your dedication and patience, but your result does not even look close to the perfection of some of these ancient vases. 👍
If you were tasked with cutting down a giant redwood tree and processing it to usable lumber and then building a three story house using circa 1880 technology I suspect that the results at every level would be far from perfect. If you were tasked with replicating a Ming vase I suspect the results would be far from perfect. Big difference between what a modern experimenter can do in a proof of concept exercise and what ancient expert craftsmen could do.
6:
@Docrock-z9k I still find it very unlikely that someone would go to so much time and effort to produce so many perfect vases unless the accuracy was essential to their use. My conclusion is that the only reason they are so accurately made is because they have been produced on a machine, however unlikely. It is the only logical explanation for the consistency of the work. Accurately cut timber is produced in a mill and ming vases on a wheel.
@toomanyradsin2019 I'm unaware of any legit research that demonstrates a clear trend of perfection or even evidence of mass machine production of identical vessels. At least as it involves some sort of complex LAHT as advocated by some of the videos that have probably influenced you. If one decides to cherry pick from a vast number of vessels made over thousands of years, some of whose provenance is unclear, they will undoubtedly find a number of awe inspiring works. Besides, even now people strive for perfection all the time with things whose only use is to look perfect. Jewelry, sculpture, paintings and even things like decorative vases or bowls that people wouldn't even think of trying to use to hold something.
I know some Amish carpenters who would disagree that it takes a mill, in the modern sense, and various other modern technologies to accurately work lumber and produce incredibly well done furniture or enormous barns and houses.
@@toomanyradsin2019I think you underestimate the precision that can be achieved using hardwood bearings such as the ones made of lignum vitae used in historic windmills and around marine propeller shafts. They are still used today in fact. There are simple techniques to make the bearings self-center, it's not that difficult.
I'm an avid fan of ancient tech and architecture. Your work is very interesting. TY 😊😊😊
thank you for conducting such important expiraments!
Wellcome!
Exciting. You should scan it and publish the stl file for all to see. That's the only thing missing. Considering all that work, an actual scan to make a direct comparison would be the last obvious step.
We are very recent modest supporters and are so delighted that you have such a professional attitude and commitment! Best of luck!
I am leaving a comment in hopes that it helps get the video more views. We need videos like this to get more views than the fictional ancient advanced technology videos.
SAM throws another pile of salt on the Woologist movement with actual documented science and experiments rather than biased speculation.
I'm not saying you are using insulting language here in your comment but I do wonder why do people use language that will isolate people that are also seeking the truth on these things? We know that in other industries this type of language has been used to harass good Scientists and other responsible people. I got my PhD in genetic/gene therapy in Organic Chemistry and I did not want to work in the Pharma industry because it's so incredibly corrupt, with documented gigantic fines for psychopathic practices. They are easily searchable on the internet. We also see other industries such as the finance industry in 2008 that was corrupt beyond belief. Why are people using language that castigates people that ask questions? It's bizarre to me. This is the language that corrupt or dominating people use to silence people that are trying to learn. Whenever someone does this it just sows even more distrust. I'm in a profession now where I love that people ask questions. “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard P. Feynman
Is your assumption that our mainstream view of history is absolutely correct and will never change? Or is it constantly changing and pretty much been rewritten the last 30 years? Because you seem to be trying to claim some ultimate truth in a field that can completely change over night. What makes you so certain you know what has happened and what hasn’t? Honestly curious
I mean it was a valiant attempt… but I’m curious as to how the predynatic Egyptians were able to cement their workstation in place to allow them to achieve even the slightest level of precision? That’s a massive part of why she was able to do what she did… and they don’t even mention that the whole work station is cemented in place😂
@@boagski Nooo absolutely not! This is the entire point of science! We're welcoming all new discoveries. On the other hand, your theory is suggesting that Ancient Humans we're not capable of being expert craftsmen. If your people actually come to us with actual scientific work, have it peer reviewed we will gladly look into it. As of right now, all they have is a misunderstanding of history and a story.
@@cleanpiecington2319 you wanted them to drill the floor of the workshop? Or to travel to egypt to bring back a lime stone block?
To upset a normal person, tell them a lie.
To upset a LAHT person, tell them the truth.
True lol
😂 great comment 👍
What is LAHT?
@@Jensen1234 "Lost Ancient Hyper-Technology" IIRC
Nice work. Are you planning on measuring the accuracy of this vase with lazer scanner tech like unchartedX did? Those comparisons would really be needed to compare and measure as accurately as they did.
Yes! 3D models of vases made during three experiments: disk.yandex.ru/d/71rKssBQLPEZcw
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths How does this vase compare in accuracy with the Unchartered X one ? How close are the close in accuracy and precision ?
@@thatotheruniverse No response, there's your answer...
@@TheObscuran they shat out a crude lidar scan with an iphone and call it a day lmao
Not really. Ben just needs to show multiple vases with the exact same level of precision with identical measurements as one would naturally expect if his vase was truly the product of mechanized mass-production. Otherwise, this, and other work produced by SAM, clearly demonstrates that creating these artifacts by hand is far from impossible. It is logical to conclude that by hand is most likely, IMO.
The very earliest Eygptians must have encountered all these problems and used there ingenuity and then hundreds (and thousands) of years to perfect their techniques.
We may have lost how to do it over time but these experiments show how it must have been at the start.
What a great experiment. Thanks for publishing this.
Wellcome
In between catching fish, grinding grain, raising children and turning out diorite vases to order, women have carried humanity well it seems ;) Thank you all and especially Olga and Yulia for tenacity and completion. This is one excellent video and not one alien in sight!
I think it's important for perspective to note that in ancient times Egyptian stone masons WERE using cutting edge technology. Previously diorite vases were an impossibility! Putting in a lot of time and effort into making the previously impossible....possible would be a profitable venture. I suspect they could have made one of these in 6 months but of course with a team of people each handling multiple stages the production times would improve. The profits would flow and all the masters of their craft would be happy to spend the time and effort on such things.
The Sabu disk!
I suspect its been carved as a plug to make a milti piece mould for making a part for a simple rope spinning machine...would be a quick project shist not being so hard to carve...I love what you do. very important for humanity debunking conmen. thanks
THANK YOU! I can now simply direct people to this video instead of me hopelessly trying to explain that no late is needed, it's simply human determination.
Important point to remember. Whatever the time factor involved in this demonstration is reflects the work = of 2 artisans - who did everything themselves. Now imagine ancient Egyptian artisans working - not individually = but in groups.
Moral: the Egyptian society was organized and contained what we today call = "guilds." So whereas these women did everything themselves there was probably a workshop in ancient Egypt containing multiple people doing various tasks.
So say the "apprentices" would be busy fabricating the tools perhaps from stone - or obtaining bronze tools from some local supplier - as the master craftsman focused upon their work. What we see in ancient Egypt would not be the work of some rando in a mud hut working alone.
Egyptologists have in places excavated what showed to be = multi-room structures dedicated to making things - jewelry as an example. This video shows what 1 or 2 dedicated people could accomplish with the time and resources = now think about an entire civilization at work........ Enjoy your day folks.
Doesn’t discredit they were using different technics or methods to achieve these masterpieces that take almost a year to do 1. There is thousands sitting around in Egypt that blow this one away. They were either professional at what they were doing and these people are juveniles or they were able to make them from a method we are unaware of. I personally do not see groups of people 6,000 years ago sitting around day and night to make one single piece lol. And then repeat it again and again and again.
@@MichaelPK03 It does not matter what you "do not see". All that matters = is what was. Ergo there is historical evidence to indicate that the Pharaohs and temples - and likely others - employed professional castes of craftsmen.
So these people were not just "sitting around" = they were paid to do exactly this. They were the equivalent of "salary workers" who received as payment food and a place to live and who could then focus only the job at hand,.
You do realize that only one person at a time could work on a vase, and the rate of material removal can only go so fast, right? At most you could speed this up by three times if you had someone working on it twenty-four hours a day.
These experiments are EXTREMELY valuable. Good job.
Excellent. Thank you for this video.
Wellcome!
Very nice. I appreciate the amount of documentation you have
Imagine what could be achieved if this was your sole job and you were taught from young by a master who was taught by Another master.
🎯 These craftsmen were not some rando working in a mud hut. They often reflected as you noted = guilds - who passed down the knowledge and improved upon it with time.
I watched a doco some time back which showed a potter in Egypt's western desert working. He had done it since he was a child and could simply by eyeballing and without tools quickly turn out "precise" pieces.
He lamented how the new generation had no interest in learning the trade which required as you said apprenticeship beginning as a youth. Thus his generation was likely to be the last.
Moral: these skills are inconceivable to some because of the fast-paced, "quick reward" = _"me.......me........me......"_ generation which has no patience nor desire to learn these trades anymore. They are too busy being distracted by social media and their smartphones. 🤦🤷
God that thing hurts my eyes… you couldn’t even polish it? Lol
No that probably requires another 2 years with an unfinished internal structure 😂😂😂
The first part really is the answer, and I'd ostensibly ask that of anyone from now on even before _bothering_ to engage them with technical and scientific arguments. "How much time, patience, 'grit', and _teamwork_ do you think the ancient people you talk about could have brought to bear against a project? Like, could you imagine an ancient worker working tirelessly day in and day out on a single piece for months, perhaps even years?"
Nothing else. Just that.
And if they say "Yikes", I say " ... yup. That's exactly what I contest they had. Time, patience, grit, and teamwork, in spades, to put into projects we hardly ever can do so on today on because our economic system is different, and is far from the only viable economic system to ever exist. But above all else - they had _love._ They had the bottomless well of drive that can only ever come from one place - the human heart and soul, revelling in the joy of creation, maximally aligned with and on Fire for its craft."
I won't believe anything until the mouse is proven to be an authentic ancient Egyptian mouse
Yes an experiment I would like to see is the production of a more sophisticated lathing system. I can imagine the Egyptians used something perhaps with self-centering lignum vitae (or local equivalent) bearings and methods of powering it very strongly. A little ingenuity could even produce a back-and-forth rotary motion for lathing in between the handles. The bearings used in old windmills and in marine propellor shafts might provide insights.
I believe that people who would be spending many hours a day for years on end - generations in fact - working lathes would come up with very effective equipment. Your efforts here only reinforce that. Fantastic!
Thanks a lot for this long work , very appreciated
Magnificent work! Too bad there always will be some who will srceam 'aliens' and other stupidity of that scale, despite thousands of hours of the hard work put in this incredible experiment. Once again, magnificent work!
Thanks!
Congratulations to this team of artists/researchers. I, for one, never doubted you!
I hope somebody shows this to Joe Rogan, lol.
Fantastic work! 👏👏👏 I first came across one of these vases in the Archeological Museum in Athens and was completely mesmerized! When I asked the museum’s guard “how?”, she just said, “we’re not sure”.
Lately I’ve been binging the videos from UnchartedX (which are quite entertaining) but doesn’t really answer any questions, and doesn’t seem to be particularly scientific.
Thanks for clearing my mind!
Are there any metrology results about the accuracy and tolerance on the vase? The incredible accuracy was the most interesting point in measuring the authentic vases.
The issue is that there are objects which are being claimed as authentic and which have certain measurements which are then used to make other claims.
Accuracy is relative really. If you measure an Egyptian vase thousands of years after the fact based upon a measurement system unknown to the Egyptian craftsmen = what have you supposedly proven - beyond a certain object has certain dimensions.
Have you proven the craftsman sought to arrive at that dimensional outcome - no. Have you linked your measurements to any specific known technique reflected by the historical record - no. Then all you have achieved is to measure a vase = and make a lot of conjecture-based declarations....... - think about it.
Ben's argument is premised upon a flawed approach. It is as alluded to by others nothing more than an incredulity-based argument premised upon flawed assumptions for his part. It is perfectly plausible for a master craftsmen to fashion an object which later reveals to have certain dimensions then unknown to the craftsman who worked based upon aesthetics rather than achieving specific dimensional outcomes. This means whatever the dimensions is what they are = that being happenstance.
@@varyolla435 What? Accuracy is relative? What?.... What? Measure system have nothing to do with precision of an item.
@@forrfuun8470 Incapable of reading then I see....... Typical of course for the Ben fanboy club.
p.s. - have Ben turn over his vase = to an outside independent evaluator....... Then you can at least say the measurements were done properly - though you will still have the problem I noted.
Moral: measuring a vase only gives you = measurements....... - not supposed origin or not.
@@varyolla435 What ? This is response to me? Dude you resoning is floved. You conflicting precision with measurement type. And completely misunderstood Ben's and other arguments. I reposnded to you absurd claim and you projecting crazy shit on me. Wow.
Outstanding! Doubting and minimizing the intelligence and problem solving abilities of our ancesters shows the ignorance of the observer!
Congratulations 🎉 im really impressed 👏👏👏
Its fucking ridiculous that these people think you could possibly replicate the work of people who dedicated their lives to the craft. This wasnt the work of some person in a sand dune. they we're master craftsmen.
Very well done. Love the content.
Just popped in my feed.
Incredible work.
Please keep doing what you are doing!
I have an idea about next experiment ... great pyramid :P ... :D
Are you financing the project?
@@emilspec1227 no, but I will give mental support
You guys are awesome - glad to see the channel growing.
Amazing!!! I thought about how this experiment was going just today!
Two years and two months for a master craftswomen to create one small vase, amazing. I wonder what knowledge the crafters from 4000+ years ago would think of her work, it is fascinating to think about how much time they committed to the hundreds if not thousands of stone vases we have found, they must have had very well perfected techniques to do so.
Pre-dynastic Egyptians made the vases from the hardest stone. What do you think the population was at that point, and is there any evidence for an industry of vase making? Why spend months polishing the insides like we see on many pre-dynastic vases? Why spend even 3 months working on one vase 6,000 years ago? How did they have the time to survive, as well as make tens of thousands of vases? People seem to think that ancient people had endless time to devote to artistic pursuits. Those people have no idea how much effort goes into procuring enough resources to survive today, let alone 6000 years ago.
Like it or not, this is how it is done. I mean the process of testing hypotheses and experimenting with materials and methods. The fact that a drill made of bone or antler along with a sand slurry containing quartz, corundum, etc. can bore a hole in granite, is something I never would have thought. Thanks SAM!!!
dummy
@@Kitties-of-Doom Doomy
Thank you so much for this labor, that’s real science. The vase is absolutely beautiful. Will support the next experiment. Is there a merch store to support in the meantime?
They won't be convinced even if you built a whole bloody pyramid
Because they can't
Thank you for proving that this is not how the pre-dynastic vases were made.
So no critical thinking then........ - got it. Also that confirmation bias is a bytch is it not.
Moral: you apparently view yourself as the supposed center of the Universe deciding what is fact from fiction = good luck with that delusion.......... I assure you however facts will remain facts regardless.
_"You are entitled to your own opinions = _*_NOT_*_ your own supposed facts"......_
You’re doing exactly what those that came after the pre dynastic Egyptians did. They tried to emulate and resulted in cases that just don’t compare quality wise.
For starters, you wall is more than cm thick while some of the vases measured were in the MM under. The bases ask had a round core while yours seems to be a cylinder, …
It’s a good a tempt, no one will argue that with enough time and enough sand you can sculpt whatever out of anything. The problem is time of production. The older intime you look, the better the craftsmanship was with the stone vases.
I love these experiments bc it just shows that we don’t know the whole picture.
You appear to believe that the Egyotians did not have great quality work throughout their history. You are also ignoring the fact that this experiment was performed by novices instead of masters who had many years of experience in a stone working industry.
@@Eyes_Open wrong. What I’m trying to say is that the older we look the better the craftsmanship and quality of the stone work becomes. UnchartedX has shown examples of high quality hieroglyphs being over written by more “recent” ancient Egyptians and the quality of work is vastly inferior.
The problem here seems to be that you think that lost tech must imply aliens when in reality, people who do stone work (like me) just have a difficult time understanding how they were able to make such vases with such precision and finish.
It’s not a matter of time bc if that was the case then anything is possible. Time is the same excuse writers in movies come up with to solve bad writing. These people had better way to cut, grind and polish hard stones. Its upsetting that Modern archaeologists think that the most there people could come up with was sand and rope , flint and pounding stones.
@@I_like_science Again, you are saying older is better (general paraphrase) because UX points at certain objects or areas. Study the complete picture and see the reality. See the amazing craftsmanship in evidence throughout dynastic Egypt and take into account the societal and economic downtimes and subsequent rises. Using the argument of precision vases based on objects of unproven authenticity is anti-scientific in the extreme. Remember, UX himself told you that he quit a full time job to devote himself to his version of ancient history study. He does not demonstrate supported evidence or claims. How does he fund his activities?
🤦 You've shown us you can 🦜- but not that you can actually "think"....... Also pointing to Ben's comical claims does not lend validity to your non-argument. Consider the following. Michelangelo created both the Tondo Pitti and the Pieta. One is a visual masterpiece whereas the other is a "so-so" sculpture........ = why??
Answer: the Tondo Pitti was a "quickie" piece to be sold whereas the Pieta was created for a wealthy cardinal's tomb. Hence the Pieta saw more effort and resources brought to bear in its' creation.
Moral: you get what you pay for = then as now.......
So Egypt existed directly for about 3 millennia and continued under foreign occupation. During those centuries it underwent periods of "plenty" and periods of "want". Thus like with Michelangelo craftsmen having time and ample resources might create aesthetically stunning work - while at other times having less of these things they create "so-so" work consistent with what their patron could afford.
This video simply showed the tools/techniques = work - and it accomplished that. These artisans however likely do not create Egyptian style art for a living - unlike ancient Egyptian craftsmen. Further they would not from the time they were children learn their craft employing tools and techniques developed over = generations........ These 2 did everything themselves while the Egyptians worked within guilds who were supported by various entities. Pharaohs or wealthy temples etc. maintained their own workforce.
p.s. - give us a specific artifact reflecting high quality work mixed with "lower quality hieroglyphs" and we can discuss what we see. As with all things each much be considered on its' own evidence. Be warned however not to assume the same craftsmen who created a thing also did the writing upon it as that was not necessarily the case.
@@varyolla435 How are people so bad at reasoning? Your explanation would be plausible if we saw a rise and fall of quality throughout the ages. However, the best quality work is _only_ found in older epochs. Now, because I know you'll think it, that does not mean that every old artifact is of high quality. It just means that the pre-dynastic Egyptians, 6000 years ago, achieved feats that even the height of the dynastic era couldn't/didn't replicate. Technology doesn't progress in a smooth, linear manner, but neither does it regress across spans of thousands of years.
The boxes in the Osiris shaft are an example of lower quality hieroglyphs essentially scratched into a much higher quality work. It's interesting that you say that the craftsman who made an artifact isn't necessarily who wrote on the artifact, because that's what we've been saying for a long time. Writing is not a reliable method to date the construction of an object or building. Yet that is exactly what is used to date many artifacts and constructions.
The Great Pyramid was dated using one piece of writing on a wall in a void above the king's chamber, and a document showing the delivery of casing stones. Until they found a piece of wood in an undisturbed place inside the pyramid semi recently. When it was carbon dated it returned a date at least 500 years earlier than the accepted timeline of construction. Did you even know that the official timeline was pushed back at least 500 years? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't. It's not the kind of thing that Egyptologists shout from the mountaintops, even though they probably should. Even that doesn't necessarily show a construction date, just the date of the earliest known habitation.
I think it would be a better technique to FIRST drill the hole through the block, as the block is then at its strongest and easiest to keep stable, and if it breaks or imperfections are noted within, it is probably always going to break or be unusable. Then, with the hole drilled, fill it with a wooden shaft and glue it in place throughout providing support to the piece. Then turn it on the lathe as you did horizontally using the axil as the center point.
I dont know if that is how they did it, but with my experience in carpentry, that is how i would do it. This way digging the shaft hole isn't endangered by already thin walls from cutting vase shape, the glued-in shaft supports the stone around the delicate parts when being reduced to the vase size, and using the shaft as the center helps with gaining symmetry when lathing the vase.
🎯 Better to remove some exterior material so as to achieve a rough outline of what you want to then core out the center. That way as you say the thicker walls will stabilize the block allowing you to remove material from the center with less chance of cracking the walls.
Then you can carefully remove material to form the final wall dimensions - your interior already having been formed.
Amazing!
Fantastic work and collaboration guys!
The amount of fanboys getting triggered by you guys doing the experiment was indeed glorious, especially since uncharted x was crying for people to replicate dynastic vessels.
Yeah he’s looking for precision I’m not seeing it here. All of us on the alternative side said u CAN make these by hand but u can’t get the precise measurements the real ones have… yall don’t pay attention at all…. Keep up
Unchartedx is looking for a tolerance of at least 5000 microns… is it here, in this vase? No it’s not. Does it look turned on a lathe? No it does not.
@@manbearpig710 You must be new to the grift of lost high tech. I do remember quite vividly when people were arguing the Egyptians couldn't work granite and diorite, then it changed to - they surely can't make stone vessels, now it changed to - we never denied they can't make vessels.
It's a constant movement of goal posts, typical of the fringe community.
In all honesty ask yourself this, would it be a surprise if the first experiment in diorite was not as good as the best diorite vessel from the entire Egyptian history?
@@MrAchile13 you must be new to mainstream… see I can do the same thing. I used to be mainstream until the cases came out cuz I’m a cnc operator. Plz go to school for CNC then come back and talk to me friend
@@MrAchile13 also no surprise at all besides the scans that show it was made on a lathe lol or parts of it were. Pretty sure Egyptians didn’t have the wheel. See mainstream is wrong they had the wheel obviously
another fine piece of experimental archeology.you guys rock-pun intended 😀
Unfortunately, I doubt this will change many minds at this point. Detractors will simply say the results are not 'precise' enough. They find it easier to believe that there were high tech power tools provided by Atlantis rather than a thriving industry of highly skilled craftsman. It's insane but that's humanity for you.
Hi, this is a really interesting and impressive experiment, and I love the finished product! I have a question about ancient stone carving though. I'm trying to replicate carving granite with flint. I am using a wooden mallet and have tried numerous techniques, such as striking with different strengths, holding the flint at different angles, and using different flint shapes, but no matter what I try, I can't seem to carve the stone without the flint completely shattering. Do you have any tips on how to successfully carve granite with flint? Also, have you tried using other stones such as dolerite to make chisels? I don't have any dolerite and would love to see if a dolerite chisel would cut granite, and if so, how effectively it would work compared to flint.
Maybe you are too impatient and work with too much force. I think with granite it is not so much cutting away, as it is slowly pulverizing a fraction of a millimeter at a time. At least, that is what it looked like when I saw a video of guys making a granite temple in India. They were using metal tools, but they were beating super softly, you didn't see them chipping away rock with every stroke.
Nice vase but sufficient evidence, that a precision higher than in ancient Egypt was achieved, was not provided, in any way.
These experiments is to answer the first demand: the claim that it is impossible to make a vase in granite or diorite because the stones are too hard to carve into with the known primitive techniques. She has proven that it IS possible to make a vase in the same style and with even more primitive tools. With generations of knowledge and methods, and decades of experience, her vases would be absolutely perfect. ALSO, we do not know if the ancient Egyptian vases were symmetrical or perfectly precise, since none have ever been measured to have perfect perimeters. There have been private vases measured that claim to be the real things, but with no proof of their origin except "trust me" we cannot say these are official ancient Egyptian vases. Especially because fraudulent replicas are common in private collections. If the vases that have perfect parameters are proven to be authentic (though we don't have any proof they're authentic), then it would mean they had some amazing craftsmen among them capable of jaw dropping talent in stone. Every society has a few artists capable of things others can't do. The only way to prove that there was some impossible feat, would be if all or even most of the vases were perfectly precise and symmetrical. But 1 or 2 perfect ones among 40,000 imprecise ones? That doesn't prove anything.
Amazing work and dedication, cool stuff
The sad truth is, no amount of evidence will convince those people. They're beyond reasoning. Still, what you're doing is great.
If it weren't for "those people", then this would not have happened
@@davidcryer2226 Maybe we wouldn't have this particular video but we'd still asked the same questions and figured out the answers. I could live without this video if it meant those nutjobs didn't get Netflix specials.
@@CASTSTONE No one was interested in this testing until people like Ben made claims that it was impossible to make without "high-tech". No one would have been funding without the allure of proving him wrong.
Even the origins of things like double-blind testing have their origin in testing mesmerism and homeopathy. As much as you want to rubbish it, real advances are made because of the existence of "pseudoscience"
As a nut job myself and thanks to this video I am now rethinking how the ancients made these. Never stop learning. @@CASTSTONE
@@davidcryer2226 So what, this vase didn't need to be made, anybody with a brain realizes that if you can cut a tiny bit of dorite then you can cut a lot, you don't need to actually do it to know it is possible if you have somewhat of a brain. But that is not the world we are living in, unfortunately.
This is incredible work.
The goal post will always be moved and more excuses from the LAHT crowd will follow.
Well, it is over right? I expect mass retraction/apology videos from all the ancient technologists any time now.
gotta be kidding right...🤣🤣🤣 Their "measurements" were done with a pencil case they took from Olgas 8 year old daughter.. a god damn green ruler and some tweezer thing with tape on it. Not a single parameter that they measured was applied to Uncharded x vase. Not one lol. "side diameter with handles" Bogus arbitrary measurements that don't mean anything. If someone forged a toyota door in a fire and hammered it out in their garage does that mean toyota makes their doors in a fire with hammer in their garage? Lidar scan that thing, its mangled 100000000 % and has nothing in common with the vases scanned. Poor woman, ground that thing for years. Fucking madness. The first vase in human history that was made this way. 🤣🤣🤣
@@Kitties-of-Doom Cope harder loser.
@@Kitties-of-Doomseems to really hurt to get your beliefs crushed ;) coping hard
@@postholer . All you need is some random numbers written out. And the conclusion at the end. "we did it! we debunked it!" Science for the mentally challenged. 🤣🤣🤣
@@Kitties-of-Doom still more convincing than pointing at a rock and going like "I can't imagine how they did that, so therefor magic".
Great work guys!
I would like you to make a primitive lathe out of a solid piece of stone to hold the work firm. Then make a vase using flint and arsenic bronze tube drills
This was an impressive experiment. I was really interested in the turning machines you had to create. Also I wanted to know if you compared the mathematical maps shown on the real Egyptian vases with the vase you crafted? I am referring to the study made by unsigned io showing the golden number, sphere, radians and triangles.
Oh look! The smoking gun destroying the lost high technology nonsense! 😂 good job guys. That's amazing.
Hardly - have you actually seen some of those statues? the sheer perfection of facial features both in detail and symmetry and don't forget the size of them too where imperfections would show up.
How about the vases where the material is so thin you can shine a light through it?
Please explain the saw cut that went off line by several inches - was it just a really fast chiseller? Striations on surfaces obviously caused by a circular saw of some kind.
Flinders Petrie documented all of this before RUclipsrs saw a revenue stream.
I could go on and on but it's probably pointless.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 Craftsmanship is like magic to some people. The vases that are transparent have to do with the type of stone and power of the light lol.
I know exactly the nonsense you're talking about. Nevertheless, SGD made a dish of *granite* so thin it was transparent enough to see light through it. You need to stop drinking the woo-woo kool-aid bud.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 The bunk argument about the striated lines has been debunked by SGD as well. I reckon you'd get a lot out of the documentary Ancient Presence did. It was about the Serapeum but they showcase SGD and this channels experiments.
You also don't use a chisel to cut lines like that. Use some common sense lol. You'd use a saw.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 SGD also made a *Granite* dish so thin you can see light shine through it. No woo-woo magical nonsense required.
Many of the pseudoscience narratives also talk about stones with natural transparency. Moot point.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 I think my comment got deleted.
Craftsmanship is like magic to some people. Symmetry is easier than realism. Simple fact.
I don't understand. Did you think that people like me were claiming that ancient people couldn't work hard stones like this? The claim is that they couldn't have made a vase with the precision and accuracy we see on many pre-dynastic Egyptian vases, or objects like the schist disk.
There are many people saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a vase with the known tools. They say even a poorly made one is not possible. Ben from Uncharted X has said this, he has said copper cannot cut into granite.
Precision is another topic. Which vases have been proven to be perfect? None of the official ones. A couple from a private collection with no proof that they are not replicas made recently. Most of the 40,000 vases found buried have obvious asymmetry and flaws. The schist disk for example is not even visibly perfect, each hole is a different size, it is a simplistic tool. The thickness varies around the disk, and the folds are different sizes.
the way youve just bored a hole in the top is just hialrious, the actual vases follow the contour of the vase. Clearly those walls arent as thin as the others and no where near as accurate.
You don't seem to fully comprehend the topic.
Actually the vases come in all sorts of thicknesses. The claim tested here, which was once a very vocal claim, was that you can't sculpt diorite without diamond. That has been proven false.
@@danielfallu5716 I haven't heard one person claim that you can't sculpt diorite without diamond. I have literally not even seen one person write that down until I read your words. I've been into this topic since 2009. Did people claim this in the 90s or 00s? Seems like a massive waste of time.
I'm impressed 👏 😎 👌 this channel needs more views and subscribers, this debunks "alien" intervention.
Fantastic work 👏 congrats to all, amazing effort 👌 just ignore the haters there any jealous and probably mentally challenged 😅 I can't wait to whatever ideas you come up with, I suppose a pyramid might be a little big 😅😅😅 anyway I loved the show I loved all your work thank you God Bless 🙏🙏🙏🦘
Incredible endeavour,amazing work,,would be interesting to concider what crystals/sand were available to these ancient craftsmen ie,diamond ,corrundum,topaz,or garner.i think the drills could have been whole corrundum crystals
please make sure to do precise measurements to check if your vase actually is as precise as the measured pre-dynastic Egyptian vases
in my opinion, why it does look somewhat alike your vase does not infact hold exact wall thickness all the way around or display see trough properties from being this enough to do so.
all in all while this is somewhat cool it does not conclusively prove anything, if anything it proves you cannot make vases and other stuff as found from ancient egypt by hand
What vases were measured as you indicate?
This was there first try. Give them generations of knowledge, a lifetime of working the craft, that good good Pharoah money, and about a hundred failed vases and a few would be perfect. Multiple this by a hundred workers and there you go.
@@Michael-ex1rz nooooooo da aliumz did it in preflood times
@@SockAccount111 Oh, you absolute fuckwit. Why must you lie, and say that people are claiming it was aliens? You are just a liar, nothing more. Your word is worthless.
Just came across your video from 4 years ago, how the comments have changed. Well done. ❤
Another thing you guys might try out. The 12 angle stone in Cusco is also diorite. There's an excellent paper written on it called "On the reddish, glittery mud the Inca used for perfecting their stone masonry" I assume you might have already seen/read it.
It involves a special chemical treatment that might have been used. The author of the paper indicates experimental archeology should be performed. To be honest, I think he's on to something. Might be more than just the Inca. Definitely worth a shot. Do be careful though!
The amount of work you guys did just to explain to dumb people something is a bit sad... But glorious ! You actively fight against pseudo-science. That's noble. Thank you !!
Wellcome!
This experiment shows that the ancient society must have been well structured to allow artisan craftspeople to allow them the time to focus on the project.
Impressive work. The unexplained aspects of the predynastic vase Uncharted scanned is that all radii can be collapsed to a single equation [R(n) = (sqrt (6)/2)^n] across twelve powers, the collinearity of the holes, alignment of separated planes (e.g. top and bottom), etc... Without going through the final step of structured light scanning and finding the deviation between primitive shapes and this final vase there's no conclusion to be drawn, other than it's possible to make a granite vase with primitive tools if given enough time. I'd be grateful if someone can provide the link for the 3D models referenced at the very end of the video, I'll happily download them and check these measurements for myself in Fusion 360 (and what instrument was used to scan them?)
He's playing math games. Night Scarab does a good job debunking much of Ben's claims.
@@swirvinbirds1971 Not really. It's similar to the how people think of pareidolia. People think the dispute is wether the cloud looks like a rabbit or not, but thats not the actual dispute. The cloud does look like a rabbit. The dispute is wether that shape is the result of intention or mindless forces. Similar thing here. Those patterns do exist, but were they put there intentionally, or is it just a coincidence?
@@spracketskooch has nothing to do with seeing shapes in the clouds. Of course the vase is a result of intention as it was made to look that way.
Again Ben is playing math games and him and his 'team' have been very shady about the whole thing even to the point of blatant lies about the vases.
Awesome video
I’m still not seeing accuracy?
Wow finally! I've been waiting for this for so long. Well done, this proves a lot. So so glad that you guys went as far as to measure the real thing and compare, and that the results were even more accurate! That's huge. Now the question is that did they really spend this much time on one item? Did they have lot more sophisticated setup? Maybe weighted drills operated by camels? Was this a mass production industry or was this very exclusive and expensive, made to order for the richest people that lived at the time?
This is very misleading. The aspect of the vases that is still not explained is the geometric continuity of the surfaces. I don't think anyone argued the dimensions could not be replicated by hand.
You are starting with the assumption that UnchartedX has vases that should be considered as a reference point for any further discussion of this topic. He has claims and needs to frame his claims against the reference of authentic artifacts. This channel showed that it is possible to make a vase with simple tools and methods by self taught individuals.
@@Eyes_Open if anything they proved that replicating the continuity is not possible by hand. Everyone already knew you could make a vase like this by hand, the whole experiment is a strawman.
@@mikestaub The original claims were that everything was impossible. Then the fraudulent claims had to be walked back because they were so obviously false. Now the claim has changed to make people think that there are objects with mystical level precision which are impossible to recreate with known methods. No proof of authenticity, no proof of the negative claim of impossibility. This channel easily shows otherwise.
@@mikestaubSo you're saying that if you can't recreate the statue of David then Michaelangelo never existed?
@@NinjaMonkeyPrime If his sculptures also had G2 Continuity then yes I would say it was also machined. Humans simply cannot manually carve that level of accuracy with our nervous systems, it requires precision machines.