STRANGEST Rotary Engine!? -Birotary Piston
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- The birotary engine is a three cylinder block, with cylinders arranged in a “star” at 120-degree angles; 6, 9 or 12-Very short stroke and large bore to reduce engine’s dimensions and increase the maximum RPMs. It has innovative combustion chamber sealing, which is patented Water and oil cooling: oil cools the cylinder block and pistons and water cools the cylinder head. In the future, an oil-only cooling system can further reduce the number of engine accessories required.
/ @knobgear
They combined an old airplane rotary engine with a wankle rotary.
Now they need more pistons, and bigger bore, longer stroke, make it breathe fire. Make it faster than a Hellcat, and people will want it.
Not everyone wants a pinche cabrza Hellcat! @@CrazyBear65
Old ideas coupled with the issues related to rotary valves and head (without the gasket) leaks.
@@CrazyBear65
No, that's not what happened.
I am aware of about 20 types of internal combustion engines, yet, the industry is still mass producing the 2 old designs from the late 1800's. Oldies, but goldies!
It isnt, modern engines are often double overhead cam variable cam Timing with turbos.
@@deadprivacy - The way I see it, the cams and the air supply were improved, but the concept is still the same (the shape and the moving of the cylinder, crank, shaft etc.)
@@FlorinSutu cycle is essentially variable and different though.
Rhe atkins otto amd miller cycle emgine concepts have all become one.
Spark ignition and gasoline itself were dofferemt from the forst diesels too.
But yeah youre kinda right.
But the dofferemce between not having amd having a spark plug is quite a big difference.
But the same logic of motive pistons and crank?
Engines havent changed from the steam days.
@@deadprivacy They are still reciprocating four stroke piston engines, irrespective of the small changes in the thermodynamic cycle.
@Turnipstalk id say the spark plug and gasoline are something of a significant difference.
That is the strangest engine noise I have ever heard.
Have you ever heard a 5 cylinder 😂😂
Sounds kinda like a chainsaw to me
Sounds like a weedwacker
It sounds just like an old Lawnboy 2 stroke mower.
@@mr.dudley5637they sound great, no fucking clue what you saying. Audi's 5 cylinder cars sound insane with an exhaust
I used to be the guy who analyzed all the new engine proposals for our Detroit based Advanced R&D lab before they got passed up the "food chain" to corporate. Plus time working for Roush Racing developing the Mustang engine, Mastercraft marine, Harley, Saturn etc.
3 basic tests I always used (and after years of working wirh Rotary engines).
1) How much combustion sealing is done...(can you imagine a system with more "piston ring" and sealing area than this with its annular ring?)
2) How well is it cooled? There is no apparent direct "water jacket" on the cylinders... this is very concerning.
3) What would happen if you "ran rich" or for a long time and inevitably filled the engine with a ton of sticky carbon buildup. See all those little seals and bearings... they become a solid lump of gunk.
Think small block chevy connecting rods, minimal piston rings, clunky push rod, single cam, and rocker. Simple brute force and ignorance...
I ran one of those for 22 miles at ZERO oil pressure after a pump failure at 200k miles recently. Can you imagine that level of reliability with this marginally cooled delicate design...? hmmmm
There.. now you are an engine expert.
100% thinking the same as you. Running on low carbon fuel like LPG might be the fuel of choice for this design. I had high hopes for the Revetec engine, but........ nope. I think it is still viable with a couple design changes if possible.
The fact that you didn’t see the radiator or coolant lines on the running engine portion of the video, tells us how much of an expert you are. 🤦♂️
@unicornadrian1358 @unicornadrian1358 I Don't care about hoses. Where are the cylinders? Where is the water? Are they touching inside the engine? No. This is a problem. There is a rock somewhere with your address on it. Return there.
@@experimentmagnet 😂 No point having a cooling system if there is nowhere for the coolant to go. 🤦♂️ Just say you don’t understand how it works and move on. Or you could have a look at their channel and learn a bit more before making asinine comments.
@unicornadrian1358 Q: does the cooling water touch the cylinders?
I think the spinning block eliminates valves.
And introduces a whole pile of sealing and lubrication issues that will never be resolved.
@@ferrumignis True. It might make sense for a kamakazi drone, fewer parts and a very short lifespan.
@@JCAtkeson3 for that kind of application, electric motors make the most sense for cheap, short-range, low-payload drones, and rocket motors make the most sense for long range/high payload drones (missiles, if you will).
Since gas engines are very complex and incredibly expensive, and suited for hundreds of hours of continuous, moderate-output use, they don't really have a niche here
@@JCAtkeson3 the spot is taken by 2 stroke engines & electric ones
That’s just what rotary valves do but with even worse sealing issues
“Let’s resurrect the rotary engine, but we’ve got to market it better than the last Wankle”
“Let’s call it Knob”
Yeah… hooray for someone having a sense of humour, but…yeah…
I want to think that there’s probably an aversion to calling the engine to transmission side of the engine the “bell end”
Large friction area to keep compression over the head of the piston meaning lubrication is the key to eliminate the heat and friction
I can't wait for a D4A review!
Same 😂
First thing that came to mind 😅😅😅
Didn't came out😭
A new version of rotary engine with more possible proplems.
When they used these types of engines in early aircraft, they unintentionally made the pilots super predictable because due to the rotation of the block the planes could turn better in one direction than another depending which way the engine spun.
that's because of the prop not the engine itself. a plane with a single exposed prop will have bad handling compared to a shrouded or twin prop.
@@xxzenonionnex7658- No, there is more to it than that it involves precession of a spinning object. Try grabbing the light bulb side of a ceiling fan fixture and moving that around in a circle while the fan spins. You will see that the forced precession is much easier in one direction than the other.
@YodaWhat idk but I remember some planes had tilted or off set props because the planes on the prop would pull in whatever direction they turned because of the way it distorted airflow. Only other things I can think of Is that you're talking about is torque on the frame during acceleration. Because you're describing gyro effect and that wouldn't effect it's handling in the way you're talking about.
@@xxzenonionnex7658Torque load from the engine always takes place due to friction of the crankshaft connecting it to the frame. Does not only occur during acceleration, it's all the time.
@@murmenaattori6 and that torque load comes from air friction on the propeller.
If you're still using Pistons, what's the point of the block spinning?
Space usage probably
I think it eliminates valves. Each cylinder slides across an intake door and an exhaust door at the right time.
Oh that's for this really boss thing. Extra moving mass to keep those horses tamed. The wanker was a stupid bugger of an engine, I'm sure this one is just as bad
eliminating moving parts, valve in this case, but you create one tho so idk if this is a good idea or just a way to moove the problem
@fayrebrand1402 I can tell you that this moving mass weighs a lot more than a few valves.
I'd like to see that engine evolve as a stationary generator, which could make use of the high rotational mass and low torque
Unfortunately this engine will never make torque without a gearbox. The distance from combustion to crank centerline is way too short. Any bigger the gyro effect will tear if from the mounts. Proof... take a 4" angle grinder to speed... then twist it around in your hand. Hang on tight.
@@experimentmagnet Oh, I believe you. This model wouldn't do anything well, but it can be improved.
I know of this as a "Clifford radial" engine. I read about in 1998 in an Australian motorbike magazine.
100% Aussies know their engineering and know this is a radial motor
Rotating the engine block instead of the crank just hasn't convinced me it's a viable design
The gyroscopic properties might cause some control issues on small aircraft. During WW I there was some aircraft with this type of engine so the gyroscopic properties did cause some control problems.
well it's not worse than a rotary in that regard. if there's a gearbox anyway to get the rotation to right speed might just as well have it in different orientation. anyway the entire engine rotated on the sopwith camel, the engine was quite heavy compared to the rest of the aircraft and this has a countermass rotating different direction on the illustration.
There are counter-rotating components. The crank rotates counter clockwise; the block rotates clockwise. (Or vice versa. Depending on which side you're looking at it).
The lighter crank rotates at twice the rate of the heavier block.
Get the weights right, and the net gyroscopic forces will be eliminated.
You could run two rotors in opposite directions. That would offset the torque steer.
Gigantic sealing surfaces! How could that not be failure prone?
Maybe it doesn't need to seal that well. They did say low v.e. so I'm assuming very low compression. Which does sound like a job for a turbo. If the lost gasses are sent to exhaust that might be a lotta fun. Especially if they are burnt along the way. Turbo would be screaming .instant spool . By the way that looks like the inside of a pneumatic tool.
I can see a wear problem, because as pistons travel to and from rotation axis in a rotating block they are pushed to the side (was it Coriolis Force?).
I did some quick math and at 20cm radius (~8 inches), 25% of that as piston travel distance and 300rpm, the force that the piston in pushed into the side of the piston well is 6.5 g. This is at rather low RPM, at "high RPM" as video mentions, the force can be very significant. It might not matter while parts are new and well oiled, but with some wear over time the friction might straight up melt the pistons.
Have they solved the seal and lubrication problem of the Wankel engine block to rotating mass and sealing problem on this engine?
Extremely unlikely. This has been a constant problem in all of these valveless four stroke engines e.g. rotary valves, slide valves, wankel, "liquid piston" etc.
This isn't a rotar it's a 3 cylinder radial motor. It has no rotars therefore no apex seals. This is therefore a piston engine and has none of the sealing issues that older Mazda rotary engines used to be plagued with?
@@ferrumignisthis has no seals is not a rotary motor and it uses pistons with rings for sealing instead apex seals. There is no apexes on no rotara = not rotary
@@jameshatton4211 The piston rings form a seal between the combustion chamber and the crankcase, but what about the seal between the cylinder block and the housing in which the cylinder block rotates (which is equivalent to the cylinder head in a conventional ICE)?
That looks easy to repair after something goes wrong.
Ya, because if something goes sideways it will be all over the place.
"let's put more moving parts inside the moving part!"
I understand your point, but it does not change my analysis of the fundamental problem.
That's similar to old rotary airplane engines, and will probably have the same issue: as the piston moves up an down, the rotational inertia is changing as the radius to the piston changes.
The craziest thing about humanity is that if you sit on an invention and never even talk about it others will still create it. Almost as if there is nothing holding humanity back from progression
While this removes the need for valves it suffers from the same problems as all rotary engines, sealing the combustion camber and lubrication as it spins.
THAT IS SO LEWD ❤ AND I LOVE IT!!!!
Because what would be the block on an ordinary internal engine, acting like a fly wheel, it would probably work great set up as a diesel engine.
Let's make the stroke and bore much more massive and add sum boost via turbo since it has 2 exhaust per revolution
The tops of the cylinders need to be sealed, but there needs to be sufficient clearance between the rotating crank and the outer casing to allow expansion, and avoid seizing.
Agreed, great option for light aircraft with counter rotation eliminating gyroscopic forces.
This is truly unique, as well as a 6 stroke engine which never made it past prototype stage.
Brilliant design!
A single engine plane has trim tab on the rudder for any torque steer from the spinning prop.
It doesn't need reductor, hence it is an ideal engine for aircraft applications.
Sounds like my old 2004 transit van... best engine I've ever owned. Shame the van disintegrated
I wonder what the centrifugal forces exerted on the pistons are at 6000 RPM in the amount of energy needed to counteract and bring the piston down from TDC!
id expect some very asymmetric wear on the pistons and cylinders. How dos it scavenge crankcase oil?
Interesting, smooth too!😊😊
Sounds and looks cool!
The vw coolant bottle is wild... 😂😂 So official.
Sounds smooth.
So you just made a modern radial engine. Congratulations
As far as putting this in a light aircraft goes. We learned with the "Rotary" piston (not wankel) design... when you spin that much mass, you create one HELL of a gyroscope. The light aircraft will NOT turn left or really land straight. All control forces will receive a large inertial "push" 90deg from the commanded direction. Count me out, thanks.
And again... the cylinder walls aren't thermally connected to the cooling system.
Show me 75% to 100% power for 3 hours... then we can talk. It won't make it.
Novel idea. Looks cool... kudos. Don't put it in the air.
What if the combine to of theses together spinning opposite directions would that balance the engine out?
How do they separate the cylinders, without losing compression?
And does it need a film of oil?
Maybe it uses kerosene like diesel but thinner as lube?
I would love to put one of these in a go kart maybe scaled down a bit though 😂
How many meters per second will those outer seals be doing? Crazy Idea. It'll have to run on 16:1 two stroke mix too.
Can I ask, what's the advantage of this design over a conventional, straight design
The friction +gyrating movement
This is a perfect and simple way to build a 4-stroke engine with only 3 cylinders every 180° kW ignition distance to create a quasi 4-cylinder engine cost-effectively for flying drones. This is also the preliminary stage for the next step in realizing the Deckers double cycle engine and comparing it one-to-one on the test bench.
wasn't having a spinning mass mounted on the aircraft like a big issue for control and stuff?
Imagine opening the hood and seeing the entire engine revolving. Nope.
What is the company's name that built this engine?
Knobgear www.youtube.com/@KNOBGEAR
It doesn't solve the reciprocating mass problem of using pistons. However it's a creative way to engineer a different solution to camshafts.
Why in the world could you not scale this up to some serious horsepower
"200 HP"
oh wow, neat!
"...and 60 ft-lb of torque"
oh
Like to see a machinist face when you asked him to deck it.
The leaky coolant ball off a VW, or Saab, is a nice touch for the dyno
Even has the Volkswagen radiator overflow tank 😂
What is the linear velocity of those pistons?? Full 4 strokes per rev!!
You said it had low volumetric efficiency correct. I think I see two exhaust pipes in close proximity to the inlet. Maybe these things should be turbocharged
It's like a radial and a rotary made a child
Let's just talk about simplicity
Still sounds just like the original internal combustion engine tho
it sounds like a lawnmower after a couple lines of blow and a case of whipits..
🎉😂
The entire cylinder block rotating at such great speed must mean a highly variable inertial momentum sitting right at the front of the aircraft, or wherever the engine is located. That may make the job of control surfaces more difficult.
The crank rotates in the opposite direction of the block, and at twice the RPM. The gyroscopic forces of the two will counteract each other. Get the spinning masses right, and this could have virtually zero net gyroscopic force.
@@rivalarrival I understand your point, but it does not change my analysis of the fundamental problem.
Unfortunately this engine will never make torque without a gearbox. The distance from combustion to crank centerline is way too short. Any bigger the gyro effect will tear if from the mounts. Proof... take a 4" angle grinder to speed... then twist it around in your hand. Hang on tight.
This would be great at charging a hybrid battery system.
Beautiful sound
Amazing how the pistons are part of the rotating mass, but it only has 30 torque per 100 hp.
Torque has nothing to do with rotating mass, ffs 🤡
@@Ozsmallbore Is so. Thats why more pistons, given the same displacement, has more torque. More rotational mass. Rotational mass contributes to the rotation around an axis. Its not the only definition. But it is what you see in reality.
Using a VW coolant ball nice
Can't wait to never hear about this again like other new types of rotary
It's just like every other new engine technology, it's never going to catch on outside of niche tasks
The torque is low but if you can get it to spin fast enough then you can gear it down for more torque to the desired output. 🤔 Seems pretty neat.
Or you just can integrate an electric engine, to this.
But to be honest, this look like the worst rotary engine of all. The balance problem of pistons, resolve with mass, still there😂
Kinda reminds me of the old OX2 engine concept.
Rotary recip?😳
Better make a small radial engine
Looks like a vw coolant bottle
A LOT of friction to overcome.
200hp at 60 foot pounds of torque doesn't seem like much at all. Considering 200 horsepower, I would have figured at least 120 foot pound of torque
A Volkswagen coolant reservoir, is the lifespan as short?
Can the fuel efficiency of this rotary engine compete with that of a normal four-stroke engine?
200hp and (1?)60lb ft? I wonder how much it’d make if you tossed some boost at it. Or added more pistons. Or stacked a few of these together. Or all of the above for the ultimate combo, could be pretty powerful
Perfect for true hybrid vehicles.
Due to block rotating counter the crank shaft makes the cycles strokes twice than the crankshat rpms, thia alliws a rpm reduction in power and eliminating the head valves,
Crankshat… 😂
Lol
The oil on the perimeter may get used quickly.
Interesting design, I'd think the question mark might be rotational inertia could be high. Whether that's bad or not for aircraft use I don't know.
Where does one find a good mechanic for that when needed?
Perfect for a 20 ft workhorse Boat
And good pump engine
The early "rotary" aircraft engines also had a very detrimental issue and that is they could not be throttled, so once started they ran at full speed. The only way thar they could control the engine rpm's was experimenting with different pitches of the propeller.
So basically once they were started they ran at full power until damaged by enemy fire, pilot crashed, ran out of fuel, pilot shut off the magneto. 🤔
It would probably be a good design for running a generator for a hybred car. I wonder how it would be set up as a diesel engine.
It sounds so cool 😅
200hp but only 60ftlbs torque. Interesting to see the power curves
Would be very good as a range extender for an electric car.
Magnetic rotary would be cool.
So.....
An old AC Delco "pancake" air conditioner compressor.
It'll be smooth, I'll give it that!
The largest issue i could see being the case with this engine is gyroscopics.
Great for aircraft that don't need to turn left?
What is the max RPM?
That seams like it would combine issues from wankles and piston engines . I would guss being a rotating tripple it would have strange harmonic properties that could be an issue .
Sounds like my old saturn
sounds like a angry lawnmower