TUNING WITH ROTTWEILER - KTM 890 DUKE R (2022+)
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- They nicknamed the KTM DUKE the scalpel, but how well can it cut through a Dyno? Today, we are going to show you all of the ways to unlock hidden horsepower from this beautiful middleweight beast, and get this blade razor sharp. We will walk through what we have learned about the KTM 890 DUKE R / DUKE after putting it through it’s paces in the Dyno, including: What modifications will affect your horsepower, How we get horsepower out of the bike with those modifications, How the bike responds at different throttle ranges, What Open & Closed Loop are, What the best bang for your buck is with regard to dollar per horsepower, and finally wrap up with our recommendations for the ultimate performance. Check all of that out now!
PRODUCT LINKS
PRO EDITION INTAKE SYSTEM: www.rottweilerperformance.com...
RACE EDITION INTAKE SYSTEM: www.rottweilerperformance.com...
DYNOJET POWER COMMANDER 6: www.rottweilerperformance.com...
EXHAUST SYSTEMS: www.rottweilerperformance.com...
CHAPTERS:
0:00 (TEASER)
0:10 (INTRO)
0:35 (OVERVIEW)
2:29 (PART 1 - WHAT AIR/FUEL RATIO WE SHOOT FOR USING A PC AND WHY)
4:49 (PART 2 - WHAT IS OPEN & CLOSED LOOP AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ME?)
9:14 (PART 3 - WHAT IS A STREET MAP VS A RACE MAP?)
11:51 (PART 4 - RESULTS FOR A DYNOJET PC WITH MAPPING, STOCK EXHAUST & INTAKE)
14:40 (PART 5 - RESULTS FOR PC WITH MAPPING, STOCK INTAKE, DECAT & OPEN MUFFLER)
20:27 (PART 6 - WHAT IS IGNITION TIMING AND WHAT THAT MEANS TO ME WITH A PC?)
23:35 (PART 7 - RESULTS FOR RP INTAKE, PC WITH MAPPING & STOCK MUFFLER)
26:55 (PART 8 - WHAT IS THE BEST BANG FOR MY BUCK WITH REGARD TO HORSEPOWER?)
28:54 (PART 9 - RESULTS FOR RP INTAKE, PC WITH MAPPING, DECAT & OPEN MUFFLER)
31:00 (PART 10 - RESULTS FOR MAX HORSEPOWER MAPS)
35:00 (PART 11 - STACKING THE GRADUATION OF MODIFICATIONS)37:12 (OUTRO)
38:06 (NEXT VIDEO) 
Авто/Мото
These are great bikes we do SO many. Chris video is super helpful for you street guys. We will share this when guys ask these same questions daily. Also they’re super fun when you get them over 130 rwhp! We have a few built to that & yep we actually use the RW power plate on all our builds. Rumor is we are building a 140+ Hp “950” DukeR 😮 😉 👍🏼
I was in to the 890 but cannot cope with that little horsepower. I will look for your 1290 video!
Excellent video!!!! Just found your channel. Thanks for the content. Enlightening as all get out!!!
Hey Rottweiler, I love to see such a well done video with discussion of all factors involved, throws me back to my IC engines coursework. I was building a turned-up street spec out of my ‘20 Duke R before I got hurt last year but still managed to pick up a little following on the channel. I heard about your development a long time ago and have been looking forward to seeing your intake come out. Though I’m still battling with some health/injury stuff these results have me excited to get back to my build later this summer. I’ve got a full exhaust (only slip-on installed currently) but hope to implement your map and intake when I have the means to do so. Again, amazing video and great discussion. Thanks for the support of this awesome platform.
This is awesome! Hope you heal up quickly Alejandro and are able to get back on the horse. Looking forward to serving you in the future. And we appreciate you checking out our channel!
Great, Great, Great....Explanation. Thank you I learned some stuff. You're captivating towatch and listen to. You're a natural. 👍
Chris, your video persona has really blossomed - nice work!
Ha! thank you. 13 years of making videos and I've gotten just a little better than just dry LOL. Thanks for noticing.
Outstanding work! Loving this bike and the fattened midrange from y’all’s work has made it that much better. Appreciate all the educational videos as well, great stuff.
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching Steve.
Superb explanation, brilliant 👏
Very good walk-through
Wauw, finally an approach that does not only do wot on a dynojet, which is useless in my opinion, doesn't give you any clue about the map except for 100% throttle while it's way more important how it behaves in normal accelerations.
For mx bikes we used the dyno as well, but just to create a base map (GET ecu) and the rest is done at the track, the real world determines what creates the best rideability. One of the problems we can easily eliminate there is the crap quality pump gas, it's 95 with 10% ethanol or 98 with 5% ethanol, it fires relatively slow and creates a lot of heat. So race gas for the mx bikes, but if you have a road bike it's pretty hard to get around fuelling at a gas station.
Just a wot hp figure on a chart is just for ego, a super crisp and rideable bike is worth much more. Have seen loads of bikes (twostroke mx) that had plenty of power but were unrideable drama bikes. You go fast on a smooth bike that gives you confidence. Saves your bones as well ;)
It's surprising how many 'tuners' just do wide open throttle and nothing more. We work really hard on the entire map from bottom to top, and then go into the corners to find more. We do this for KTM's Adventure line, Moto line, Enduro line and Street. All the same procedures and have the likes of Chris Birch trusting in our maps when it comes to tuning.
Thanks for this great video - you guys rock
No, no! You rock for subscribing. Thanks for the encouragement!
I don’t even own a KTM (yet) but this is excellent info!!
Thank you Warren's Adventures! Glad it helped.
Bada$$ video. Super informational and answers like 80% of my questions!
Boom!!
@@RottweilerPerformance are intake kits different other than carbon or mold between the 400 and 650 prices?
@@habitualangler Fundamentally they perform the same. One is plastic and the other is Akrapovic quality carbon fiber.
wow...thank you so much for taking the time to share such valuable information,to the guy below watch the actual video
Thank you and so glad it helped!
Well now I know what we need to do when I pick up a 890 for next year race season!!
You'll be smoking all of the competition who don't already have a Rottweiler Performance air intake system! The ones who do, well then your skill as a rider will start to become more important!
Amazing 🤩🤩🤩
Next up, the new SMT!!
As soon as we get one we are all over it.
Cant wait!
That was such an imformative video. Tnx.
@@markreynolds8630 Honestly the video about the SMT will be identical to this so you are already way ahead of the curve. All of the science we speak of here is fairly universal and we don't see that engine changing much to that bike other than CC's, in which case it will be the exact same results, just with more power.
Right.
Apart from it being the slightly different tune of the 890 adv bike or very similar.
@@markreynolds8630 More of what we mean is how the exhaust and intake affect the power curves. That will be almost identical regardless of tune because the effect that exhaust and intake have don't really change with a tune. That is intake and combustion theory that plays a constant.
Hi, can I get the intake and the PC map in the UK? Great no-nonsense format, love it
honestly just came to see the upgrade to a new air-filter and a before and after dyno run ... admittedly this was much better :)
Gracias por el video! En una duke 890, con la cola arrow, decat y filtro kn. Sin ningun mapa, puede ser perjudicial para la moto a largo plazo? Un saludo!
❤ the all in one video of the possible changes and results.
Your methodology starting with a base line at std and working through the changes is a breath of fresh air.
When compared to your avg. Punter on their soap box trying to make claims without any data!
This video has given me the reassurance that my experiences and knowledge in tuning is on the money.
Oddly you try and tell the av. Joe, they just don't want to listen!
There is one step I would like to have seen covered, (just how far would you take it 🤔)
At some stage (as im not suggesting at every dyno run from std to max) of your process. Introducing exhaust length changes? And results?
I have never worried about fuel mileage on any bike I have had for 50 years! Have a 13 SMT with your goodies and kick all these new bikes up in NC mountains!
Love it!!
Awesome video, thank you! Would love to see the same on the 1290 SDR.
We will certainly be adding more, and that bike is on the list for sure!
Thank for this! Got a question. When you say decat and open muffler, are you saying decat and a slip on? Like aftermarket? I’m asking because i have the arrow decat on my 2021 duke 890r and everything else is stock. My friend has a Akro slip on he is willing to sell me cheap (looks cool, sounds good). Do i need to refuel (PC or whatever) or is the closed loop going to retune for me enough and I shouldn’t worry about it being too lean? Because after the pre muffler and decat it doesn’t matter? Eventually, I’d like to get your intake and a PC with your maps. But, I work in the film/TV industry and we are not working right now. :( thank you. I buy all your stuff. I have a stage 4 kit on my 1190 and its amazing! -Spencer
For 27:25, the red curve , is it stock exhaust with cat ? There is not much reason to decat if air filter is the key to regain loss mid range torque
Do you have dyno results from an intake with no map? Intake only.
Does the bike run to lean if you decat without a power commander? Cheers.
@ 26:30, your intake and map only vs stock, is that with a race map or street map? It looks like a race map as the entire rpm range is fueled correctly
Can we get pops and bangs with Intake + PC6 + Akra full titanium?
Love to know what interface/harness you are using to map the ECU as KTM are very closed on mapping ECU's
Is all this mapping with the engine light on? Most intereseted in the olny modified intake map. Best video ever on this topic 👌
This video is showing the most power that can be gained for each mod and the only way to do that in regards to a Power Commander is pull the stock O2's which does cause an engine light. It's harmless unless it bothers you, but you have the option to keep them in, have no light, retain cruise control and just have a bit less power. Not a big deal. Still lots to gain with ignition advance on a PC6 and mapping in open loop.
‘ be interesting to compare the tank range with a map switch 😊
Wow really nice detailed video, thanks for the session! I am running AK exhaust and aftermarket rearsets on my 790. Do you guys every see an issue where the right foot heel gets blocked by the exhaust heat shield (the carbon looking piece on the slipon) once rearsets are in lifted positon? It makes me doing reverse duck stance on the pedal and bothers me a lot on right turn on track when I try to turn my knee out... If you also have seen the issue what would be a good solution?
I'm not sure off hand what sits low, I'm more into the tuning these days and don't know off hand, but you can always reach out to our tech guys and they can help at info@rottweilerperformance.com. You can also contact a fabricator who might be able to lower the muffler for you. (We used to do things like that but not anymore). Or, just shop for the lower slung mufflers on that bike. Start on our site and if you can't find any just do a search and there should be some hooligan stuff available. We typically don't sell hooligan stuff because they generally lose power unfortunately and that's hard to stand behind as a company.
Great Video! I'm curious if your shop has experienced many 790/890 with the high wear on the camshaft lobes, if so what do you see as the problem on these camshafts?
One theory is that these cams are used with different grinds in different models. Most specifically, the Duke and Adventure which have different cams that probably come from the same blank. Those blanks are heat treated which only penetrate 'X' amount of depth into the metal material. The reason Duke's don't seem to have the problem and the Adventure bikes DO have this problem could be that the Duke have a higher lift, therefore less material is removed from the blank to create that cam. The adventure has less lift, which means more material has been removed. It could be that the adventure grind removes more material than the heat treat has penetrated, and this is why the surfaces are soft and failing, but only on some. If these were traceable back to the heat treat tanks, this may explain some things.
That was awesome, like a Dynojet bible. Wish I could send my MT-09! You guys work on it?
Unfortunately no, but if we keep growing like we are who knows, maybe we will in the future!
Thanks for the video! I'm running the Akra with the welded dbkiller, I will go decat, is there any of yours map I can use?
Do yours maps developed on US bikes work also with Euro5 EU 2023 KTM?
We have maps for just that no problem, and yes, the US maps are used on EU bikes with great success. They aren't different enough to make that much of a difference in the ride.
So, three families of Maps? 1:Street 2:Race and 3:Max or Ultimate? Is the Max HP Map used with the stock 02 sensors connected.?
In a nutshell. When we can, we like to make an 'ultimate' map that is simply hard focused on power and nothing else for racing. The ratio of fuel to horsepower goes way up, but if you are racing none of that matters very much unless it's endurance.
Awesome! Thank you for the detailed video. How is the throttling at the mid point? Does it suffer at all with the added fuel?
Not at all. That's where we make the most and best power is right in the middle. If you go with the full kit, you will be blown away at how much more mid we have added.
PLEASSE do the same for SDK R. Learnt so much from this
Assuming you mean Super Duke, we certainly plan to and have this in our list!
Going to need a standalone system here for racing soon. Wondered if a PC6 map would be corrected by the stock ECU or not.
In the video we explain that you have full control without the issue of the stock system 'undoing' the tune so long as you are running RACE MAPS and have the O2's unplugged. If you are racing, you don't care about cruise control or an engine light, so the RACE MAPS would be the way to go.
Question, Arrows exhaust or Akrapovik what I should consider? Or should be same thing on both and it’s matter of brand and cost?
Honestly, we love them both, but Arrow gives you some great bang for the buck. Couple of reasons: Akrapovic, because they are part of KTM's Power Parts catalog is welding the DB killer on most of their mufflers for KTM. This sucks, and Arrow doesn't do that. Arrow also has made some great strides lately on fit, finish and quality. Their parts have gotten a big boost in quality and craftmanship that is getting them closer and closer to Akrapovic. For quality, Akrapovic is king. Their parts are definitely beautiful, but bang for your buck the Arrow will be less expensive and allow more tunability by allowing you to remove the stuffers in the rear.
great vid and very interesting, im just wondering what would happen if bike was completly stock, no power commander, but just removing the cat pipe only and keeping standard exhaust and how that would affect the bike ?
Riders do that all the time with no issues at all. Taking a cat out only makes the engine think the exhaust is longer because the pulse waves start to return to the head a bit later because they basically cancel out at the mid pipe stock (where the cat lives), and when a full decat is installed the pulse waves cancel out much further back, simply changing where the bikes makes power which in this case adds a bit in the low to mid and takes much less from the top to do it so better out of the corners type of thing. Fueling wise stock with a decat is just fine, but you are missing out on a good amount of power without the Power Commander. That's about it.
Often people believe closed loop FI systems are there to provide the best air/fuel ratios and if someone modifies the exhaust in some way, the ECU has their back.
Not so.
They are tuned to meet targets the manufacturer set to appease the bureaucracies.
I noticed these are horsepower graphs, but is the midrange dip that we feel because of the dip in the torque graph? I feel a weakness in acceleration in that midrange dip between 4-5k. Do these horsepower graphs impact that as much as the torque graphs?
The Torque numbers are generated by a mathematical equation in the software so whatever percentage you see in the HP you will see the exact same percentage in the Torque so no difference. At the time we made this video we did not have a separate torque load cell affixed to the dyno which would split HP and Torque into separately measured reports, but as of 2023 we have one but you still wouldn't see much difference as typically the curves effected by changes to the exhaust would effect both about equally. We mostly use the torque load cell to measure increases in ignition advances live.
Can you guys do another video where you equate exhaust sound to the tweaks to show performance increase for us lower intellects!
Hey Chris - Any insight into the start, stall, running on one cylinder at startup issue that seems to be pretty common? I have that on my '19 790 Adv and '23 890 Adv. Both seem to come and go and I have read a lot of supposition about the issue, but have not seen any scientific/data driven explanations of what is actually happening or how to fix it. My '22 Norden 901 doesn't seem to have the issue. Love your products, have used them on my '15 1290 SA and just got an Arrow de-cat for the 890 to try to get rid of some heat. Thanks! -Rob
We have it on strong authority that even KTM doesn't know what is going on there. The Dukes don't seem to do it, so we think that maybe it's because the fuel has to travel so far upward. Working on some solutions that we will be testing so get back to us in a couple months. If you want to be a guinea pig, reach out to info@rottweilerperformance.com and ask someone to ask Chris about it.
@@RottweilerPerformance Awesome! Thanks!
With any of these tune set ups. Did you ever think of changing the front/back sprockets, or maybe both?
Some people drop the front for more 'city power', but that won't change the outputs shown in this video. This is all based on throttle position and RPM so gearing won't have much effect on what's reported here. It can make for some fun though!
Well explained. Can I buy a kit here in Australia & just fit to bike?
We have a great dealer in Australia called 'Motorcycle Adventure Products' that does very well with our parts, but they are Adventure oriented and may not stock much for street. Shoot them a call and see if they can get one on a future order for you.
Is it just me or do these stock O2 sensors look a lot like the same wideband o2 sensors you get with the Dynojet AT200/300?
It's just you. They aren't even close. Stock are 12mm narrow band O2's that are quite small and the Wideband stuff which is primarily Bosch are 18mm and much larger in size.
Does the factory Akra remap shoot for the same 14.7 AFR? I’ve already had the dealer flash the remap so I’m wondering if the PC5 is still necessary or worth it, & if the PC5 tunes will play nice considering the bike was already remapped. Thanks for any info you guys can provide!
I was about to ask the e question!! Im getting the Full Akrapovic Evolution line that comes eith the bike as a factory option.
The Akra map is a blanket map that is sent to everyone around the world and is not bad or great. If you were to add a PC6 you would need to flash back to stock because you would be 'double mapping' as the values set in our maps are modifications of the stock signals to the injectors. If you have the Akra map, I would say leave it if you are happy. If not, a PC6 offers more customer tunability, map switches, lots of accessories and so on. The differences between the two would be Akra flash: no extra parts on the bike but no tunability. PC6, extra parts on the bike, but lots of options. That's really how to look at it.
@@RottweilerPerformanceokay this is the part where i say why don you guy tap into Woolich Racing Hardware. Very Serious question because being extremely honest the idea of a map switch when i already have all these options is a serious drawback. I would ultimately loose two maps which is senseless. Let me know if you guys can Tune WR software on a Dyno. That would be the best solution to retain all the functionality.
We can tune stock ECUs on the dyno yes. The Woolich Racing flash is just that, a flash, so it can be rewritten or 'overwritten' by us on the dyno no problem. @@DR-hw9js
What is comparasment of standard bike,standard map compare to rott intake and standard map..?
Thanks a lot..
4-6 HP in the midrange is typical on the 790. Similar for the 890. We don't have a video of that, because every time we do one of these people start asking for every combination in the book and we just can't do that, but those numbers have been our experience.
I took the cat off my 890 beside that i hear backfire too. I want to ask is backfire normal on these bike? I dont have any tune or fuel mapping.
Backfiring is usually a lean or over rich condition within the exhaust system. There are other factors that can cause backfiring as well like an air leak into the exhaust from a slip fit allowing air to be pulled into the header but this is probably not your case. This is not typical on a Duke from simply removing the cat so you may have other things going on that would be difficult to determine remotely. It’s worth it to note that on deceleration your bike cuts all fuel until it rolls down to about 5000 RPM at which time fuel is reintroduced, sometimes causing a backfire right when the motor starts igniting fuel again. Listen to the bike carefully upon deceleration and you’ll hear a change around that RPM. If that’s where it is happening that may be why and things are normal. A little trick you can try is modifying the clutch switch temporarily with tape or a zip tie to fool the engine into thinking your clutch is always pulled in. This will stop the ECU from cutting fuel on deceleration and help you A/B test what’s causing the problem. Don’t keep the bike this way though because it uses that to determine when you are idling in gear and raises the RPM about 200 to help ‘put’ you along at idle instead of chugging and stalling.
If the popping is substantial your bike may be lean for other reasons like a clogged fuel pump or injector. If a Power Commander is within your future at some point, it may be worthwhile to try that to see if the popping goes away with proper fueling. They work wonders for even stock bikes but we wouldn’t want to tell you that one would be ‘the fix’ and it turns out you have other issues going on. Just something to consider if it’s definitely in your future regardless.
Here is an article that may help as well: noobnorm.com/motorcycle-backfire-causes/
Excellent video!!! Same for 1290 adv?
The theories talked about here are basically the same, but we'll be testing all of that once we get the tuning down for the new 1290 Adv models. They reject fueling dongles in the same way that the 790 and 890 models do, but we don't feel that losing cruise control on that bike will be a popular option for what consumers are using them for so we are looking into flash tuning the stock ECU which we have the capabilities of and are working on that eco system to make the most of modifications as of this typing. Stay tuned!
Would this information happened to apply to the 2023 KTM duke 790 as well?
Pretty much word for word. While as of this comment we have not had a chance to dyno one yet, all the rules should still apply as to what parts of the power curves are affected by those same mods.
So because of the 02 sensor, I could get an exhaust and intake, and the computer will adjust it appropriately?
100% correct. Is it better with a tune? Absolutely, but NOT mandatory. Its stock target air fuel ratio is 14.7 which is safe, but doesn’t make good strong power like 13.2 does. That’s about it! But you can do both those mods, including a decat without any issues at all. 1,000’s of people have done what you want to do. 👍🏻
@RottweilerPerformance Thank you! I'm still strongly considering one of your power commanders though, definitely ideal!
Part 6 Ignition timing. What grade/octane fuel do you have to have at minimum to be able to get those gains with advanced ignition timing?
This was CA pump gas 91 octane. When running any advanced ignition it’s always a good idea to run a map switch and load a second map that is identical to the other, but with no ignition advance. This way you can switch it off at a moments notice for any reason.
@@RottweilerPerformance So should be no issues to run it full time with minimum of 95 octane on every station here in Europe?
@@turkkaturunen2809 As long as your 95 is equal to or better octane rating as our 91, you are golden.
@@turkkaturunen2809- The UK rating for octane is very different than the US rating. You’ll need to research the difference
In your opinion, what's the restriction that seems to cap all of these at 110hp to the wheels?
Cubic centimeters really. We are sure there is more to be had with some internal porting work and so on, but that's about what this engine is capable of without major reworking which eliminates about 99.9% of consumer buyers. We love that kind of work, but very few people are willing to go to that extent. Making power easily and affordably with consumer capable mods are what we are known for but that doesn't mean we aren't always looking for more to service the serious racer.
Does anyone know the quick shifter will work with the race map?
It absolutely does. There is no changes other than what is mentioned in the video. You are good.
Yes, dyno the old powerplate with KN filter vs new intake please.
We'll be honest here. Every time we release one of these videos people start asking us for all kinds of custom videos for all kinds of things. We love it, and we wish we had the time to do that, but these videos are the biproduct of simply building the maps we need to make to offer our customers and what we learned along the way with that particular session. We get a good bang for the buck because we have the maps to offer, and a video that we can make out of it, but sometimes we just have to tell people that we can't do every test known to man LOL. We want to, but if we tried we guarantee there would be someone out there asking why we didn't do a dyno pull with a banana in the tailpipe and what kind of power that made. Trust us...
@@RottweilerPerformance probably get a little more low end grunt with the banana ;-p
Did you guys find any loss of power at part throttle with no map and decat / open muffler? Thanks
Not really, just a shift to the mid from top. It’s a larger increase to the mid than the pull from top, so we are happy with that outcome seeing that you spend 99% of your time in the mid. Same type of results, just less power without the Power Commander.
How about intake, and sc project sc1 but still keeping the cat
That’s roughly the same as the intake alone section of this video. Mufflers alone without decatting dont change a whole lot in terms of power, especially when the cat is still present. What they are great at is sound, looks and weight loss.
Do you only do power commander maps or full on ecu flashes?
For now Power Commander, but ecu is coming.
How about a decat with slip on for a 2022 Duke 890 standard model? Will it see the results in the decat only section of the video with no tune?
These videos are done at random and when we can. We get requests all the time but can only make them when we have one on a bike really. You will see results without a tune. The decat just makes your exhaust thing it's longer, which adds more low to mid end power.
@@RottweilerPerformance thanks. Does it matter that I’m using the lv-10 dual exhaust? Does it make it even longer?
@@MC-qj2zd Not really. It has mostly to do with how far the exhaust pulses have to travel before they dissipate and become reverse pulses. With the stock cat, they dissipate there as they expand in the chamber that houses it which is a very short distance from the head and valves, so this tends to create more top end centered power. When a decat is installed the pulse waves are able to travel further before the dissipate and return which typically makes better low to mid, sometimes effecting the top but much less than the gains in the low to mid. For example, you might gain 3 in the middle and lose 1 at the top. Seeing that you spend 99% of your time in the middle, this is an acceptable compromise unless you are at 100% throttle 100% of the time, which hopefully you are not.
Why not add in velocity stacks to all of this amazing information? I developed a velocity stack for the duke, but it just has not been tested.
We would certainly be interested to see those, but the only thing you can really do on this model is run 790 stacks which are a bit longer than the 890, which will only add bottom end and remove some top. It certainly would have been good to see that and maybe we'll do another one just showing that. If you want to communicate with us on what you have made, you can email info@rottweilerperformance.com and we'd be happy to test them but without some fairly expensive investments in rubber casting molds there isn't a whole lot of change in the power curve that we believe would warrant the expense being that you would only be shifting power and not really creating any.
@@RottweilerPerformance what about 3d printed stacks, let's say in TPU or something?
@@HarrowedDreams You could, but we have seen enough evidence trying 890 stacks on a 790 and vice versa that we know what happens. You can go shorter for more top end using 890 stacks on a 790 and you can go longer with more mid range punch using 790 stacks on an 890. Any variation would just be a measurement between those two and not particularly worth the expense to make them when you can get close enough with what exists already.
Have you been able to try the Kramer camshaft?
Not yet but will as soon as we can get our hands on one. We have one in the works too but it was shelved for a while when some other things rose up the chain.
Can you use a "map switch" between 2 maps ... one being your street tune and the other being your race tune??
Great question, and unfortunately not really. To switch between the two you would also need to switch on and off the narrow band O2's. This is possible to do, but we tried it and it didn't work out like we had hoped. We are working on getting more control internally within the ECU's of those bikes so we can accomplish more things, and that is coming at some point, but being Bosch units (vs Kehin on most other models), they are not as friendly when it comes to getting inside them.
@Rottweiler Performance what's not as nice?? Is the ecu locked still? Or is like... when you touch something the ecu screams and then bricks on you?
@@HarrowedDreams You can get into them, but they are much more work than a Kehin computer which is why it's hard to find ways to do it. Working on it though.
Hello from Spain! Great video! I have a 2020 Duke 890r, I put Leo Vince catalyst suppressor and Leo Vince LV One Evo tailpipe, could I damage the engine if I don't map the bike? They recommend that I use the KTM Akrapovic map, but I don't know what you think about it. all the best
The Akropovic map is certainly better, but not mandatory. These bikes have a safe target AFR of 14.7 which while not ideal for best power output, is completely safe and whatever you install on this bike it will adjust to with that target AFR. Will you be happier with the Akropovic map? Absolutely, and keep your eyes on us for mapping on these bikes in the near future, but stock is just fine too. You won't find anyone on the internet that has done damage to their motors doing what you are doing. Ride with confidence.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thank you very much for answering! I knew about the closed circuit and that the AFR regulates itself, my question is whether when accelerating to 100% and entering the open circuit the gasoline will not be very dry and there could be some damage to the engine or valves. That's why I said about mapping so that it is richer in gasoline. I'm right?
@@diego.tns.5176 I'm thinking of doing the same setup this spring on my 890 R. Did you notice any power loss after removing the cat and fitting the slipon?
Does anybody show if the official Akra remap that comes from KTM is good enough or there's much more to be had?
Good question. I’m about tu buy one and I have the same doubt. I’m assuming it’s just to adjust air and gas to be more linear and that’s.
The Akra remap is only included with the decatted exhaust, had it on my 790 Duke, it was still on the lean side. There's much more, especially when you include ignition timing. Adding the Akra map to any other exhaust just to get it a bit richer is just guessing, not optimal.
@@wernerxldata in the dealership they told me they will charge me extra for the remap. Like it’s something additional to the full system 😨
@@jesusamaroreyes4269 I had to pay for the 'work' as well, the map itself is free as far as I know but you need the KTM user setting tool aka UST to upload it, I don't own the needed cable.
So I bought the exhaust, mounted it myself and got back for the remap. Wasn't expensive since it was less than 15 minutes work.
Akra remaps are just okay. They are so bound that they are usually on the leaner side and in the Super Duke's case make it so it goes into limp modes if the turn signals are plugged in and then there is yet another work around for that too. We are working on solutions for the 7/890 for the ECU but it's a slow going process with Bosch stuff.
Why didn't you show the comparison between the power plate and the intake? I want to know if tossing out the old for the new is worth it.
This is my situation as I assume many others. Hope Rottweiler will do this comparison, if they don't it may be telling. My 790 is decatted and custom tuned as well. Id like to know if its worth ditching for the new version.
These videos are a biproduct of things we happen to be working on at the time and the Power Plate wasn't part of this session because this was a 'new intake' focused video. That being said, here is a link to an image that we just built for you from our Winpep 8 dyno software (and anyone else who wants to know) that shows the varying amounts of power between stock, stock mapped, stock mapped with a Power Plate and stock mapped with a full intake system on a 790 Duke. The power characteristics are about the same for an 890, just a bit more HP. This should help! www.dropbox.com/s/so389wcw6p5ihg3/Duke%20790%20Power%20Chart.png?dl=0
@@RottweilerPerformanceThank you. So the peak power loss is pretty significant, would you say this is more a symptom of the decat, or the new intake design over the stock box/w power plate? I have a fully tuned 790 de catted with power plate as mentioned, but making 101whp/60trq, with my hp curve still climbing at redline contrary to your green de cat graph. I am trying to decide if ditching the power plate for the new intake is going to sacrifice the top end power I am currently enjoying. Its not worth the sacrifice for some additional mid range, personally. Be great to just have the apples to apples tuned Duke with new intake vs old powerplate dyno comparison. Cat or decat, as long as apples to apples.
@@chriswalden798 If you look at the full boat combo at 36:50 (RP intake, Decat, PC6 with RP tune) you actually gain the slight loss on the top back. The change in power is from two things. The decat which returns pulse waves at a later time, creating more low end, and the full intake that adds a TON of midrange because it is shaped like a longer velocity stack, which on paper typically focuses on midrange where most people ride the bike. So, if you go with that combo, you'll have the best of both worlds. On tracks, the Dukes with the RP intake and decats are still producing faster lap times because of the speeds out of the corners and the ability to short shift up to speeds faster. Check out this Motorcycle.com article that talks about the benefits of the intake. www.motorcycle.com/products/mo-tested-rottweiler-performance-intake-system-for-the-ktm-790-890-duke-review
@@RottweilerPerformance firstly, thanks for the great video! The dropbox link doesn't work anymore, could you please update it? I want to try the Power Plate, but curious on the result.
But will this make damage to the engine ultrafast?
Not in the slightest. It’s actually healthier for the engine to fuel it correctly. It will run cooler and be much happier.
can you guys make an intake for the ktm 1290 sdr 🤞
We have them for up to 2019 and are working on the new models. The business has grown so much over the last couple of years that we have had a hard time keeping up with the models we need to service, but we have hired a number of new and exciting technicians that are helping us cover the models we are currently missing.
@@RottweilerPerformance that's awesome to hear, once the 2020 sdr products are ready I'll be ordering a full package with power commander
Do you offer ECU flashing instead of using a Power Commander?
Not for the Bosch controlled units >yet
@@RottweilerPerformance, does the 2020 890 Duke R have a Kehin or Bosch ECU?
@@K-Mac_Racing_55 Bosch, which is not friendly and probably why the government loves them. We'll break them.
@@RottweilerPerformance Reminds me of the late ZH2 and Hayabusa, took forever for the usual tuners to get inside those. I doubt Japan changed ECU brands but they are more sophisticated than ever.
You specify 2022 plus. Is there an issue with a 2021?
Can you be more descriptive as to what you are asking so we can better understand the question?
@@RottweilerPerformance the video title and your tuning discussion seems to relate to 2022 or later ECUs. Was there a change to the bike that is relevant? I have a 2021, does all the performance tuning described still apply?
@@RoyClendaniel Pretty much. Closed loop seems to move ever larger and larger to redline in later models, but it seems the earlier the better in terms of fueling. That being said, later models are making more and more power so we think they are adding a bit of ignition advance to later models to compensate. We know the less fuel isn't doing it that's for sure. You can take the same info for your 2021. It's real close.
Everyone has ECU flashes for Japanese bikes, BMW, Ducati, Aprilia, and so on. How come there's such a lack of ECU flashing services for KTM bikes?
There is and there isn't. Couple things, most people who flash focus on street bikes that are popular. This is typically Yamaha R1 and the like so they don't want to step over dollars to pick up quarters. That being said, there are some exciting things coming down the pike from Rottweiler in this regard for models we don't have a solution for like late model 1290 anything so stay tuned for something there.
In regards to the 7/890 offerings, they are run by Bosch and the people who write the definitions to read/write to the ECU HATE Bosch, so finding solutions for this is tough. We are working on it though so again, stay tuned.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks very much for the information!
Probably cause they know it'll have more of a chance of going wrong with their shitty reliability issues.
Would be so much better if Woolich would get access to these ECU's and we could ditch the piggyback stuff once and for all.
Would be easier to build custom ECU and firmware with wire harness to replace all these EPA fart systems.
So , you are saying that ktm technicians set wrong Air flow ratio on their bike …
?
If you mean 'Air Fuel Ratio', and not 'Air Flow Ratio', then the answer is 'sort of'. They HAVE to set the AFR to 14.7 according to most counties regulations. This doesn't make power and isn't your friend. So we are showing you how to get the power back.
@@RottweilerPerformance thanks for
The clarification. I’m new to the bike world. I’m looking around to buy my first bike and the 890 r 2023 got me.
Wanted to go with the SD 1290 r but all my friends told me to start with a 890 as I’m a beginner.
Thanks for you video
@@RottweilerPerformance Three questions: 1. Running richer like this, what does it do to the fuel efficiency of the bike? 2. Because its richer, are you seeing lower exhaust temperatures (with just the map, not a decat also) 3. Have you done a dyno to a completely stock bike with only your intake? (no maps, no adv timing etc)
@@cryptobangbang5532😊
890 is definitely not a beginner bike. @@cryptobangbang5532
1290 ADV please.
Working on that too. This is a brand new line of videos that have been a hit with customers so we will certainly be doing more of them as time goes on! Thanks for loving it.
@@RottweilerPerformance Please start to flash the ecu's.
We are many that whant to get rid off all restrictions beside an plug in unit.
@@johanalden7316 Actually working on that as I type. Lot's of MAJOR things coming in that direction. Especially with the new bikes.
@@johanalden7316 Working on that, but we have to get the people that write the definitions for us to do so really hate the Bosch systems and it's hard to get them to help us is really what it comes down to.