Mario: The Infamous History of Level 5-2
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2023
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Music list: docs.google.com/document/d/1p...
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Music Credits:
List of all music in this video:
docs.google.com/document/d/1p...
Chris Doerksen (chrisdoerksen.bandcamp.com/)
Eagle Eyed Tiger ( / eagle-eyed-tiger )
HOME ( / home-2001 )
Overcrest ( / overcrest )
Seimuc (seimuc.bandcamp.com/)
Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Thanks to the following people for help with research! Be sure to check out their channels:
Kosmic: / kosmic
Niftski: / niftski
Bismuth: www.youtube.com/@Bismuth9/fea...
Andrewg: / andrewg
darbian: / darbian
Eden_GT: www.youtube.com/@Eden_GT/feat...
GTAce99: / gtace99
Top Supporters:
docs.google.com/document/d/10...
Video Credits:
docs.google.com/document/d/1P... 
Игры
Thanks to the following people for help with research! Be sure to check out their channels:
Kosmic: www.twitch.tv/kosmic
Niftski: www.twitch.tv/niftski
Bismuth: www.youtube.com/@Bismuth9/featured
Andrewg: www.twitch.tv/andrewg
darbian: www.twitch.tv/darbian
Eden_GT: www.youtube.com/@Eden_GT/featured
GTAce99: www.twitch.tv/gtace99
First reply
Home - We’re Finally Landing
ok
@@supersoniku No thanks! ❤
This trick should've been called "Devil's skill", not spell. It's called 悪魔の技 in Japanese.
14:33 Imagine spending tens of thousands of hours practicing every movement and mastering every skip to become one of the greatest Super Mario Bros players of all time only for some random dude on Discord to say "Bro, why are you using the slower method?"
😂💀
A story as old as the internet
especially some shit that was discoverd in 2004
Library of Alexandria strat
@RandomGameCritic everything wrong with Helluva boss season 2 episode 7 when?
As Kosmic once said "It came about the same way new tricks usually do in these games: one day we just decided we're gonna do what the TAS does"
That’s such a fire line, what a legend
When I first discovered speed running I didn't understand what TAS was, I thought it was people pulling that stuff off in real time. I guess now they actually are.
@@D-Fens_1632what is TAS?
@@DanneoYTit's a program playing a game as fast as it could, employing various game breaking strategies. Full form is Tool Assisted Speedrun.
@@DanneoYT to be specific it’s a program executing a human-crafted series of inputs frame perfectly (there are often theoretical tricks that are impractical or almost impossible for a human to execute frame perfectly with consistency). It’s not an AI, it’s like an automatic piano that plays from a roll but for a video game emulator, the piano plays itself but someone still had to write the roll
Someone called "Eden" telling everyone about a trick called "Devil's Spell" is some crazy biblical level shit.
true
😂😂😂
the spy of the garden of Eden
Satan Himself
@@skywatcher458 Thank you Satan for the time save ♥♥
The whole "Devil's Spell" thing is a good example of how a lot of things aren’t known to Western players because of the language barrier with Japanese communities. Now there is some more collaboration but in general, it still happens quite often.
If you haven't seen it, watch WaifuRuns video called "Speedrunners Uncover 20 Year Old Secrets in Devil May Cry" (not sure if I can link the video without getting comment removed): it's another perfect example of this, where Japanese players found an optimal strategy for a boss years ago, that Western players didn't know about until they watched those old speedruns
Reminds me of the Nero family from Final Fantasy IX that was hidden in a Japanese guidebook for 13 years.
FUN IS INFINITE
This happens with multiple games
yep same happened with Super Mario Kart, they had known of Long Boosting and a few other strats from about 1 year after release (1993), the rest of us found out basically when Mario Kart Super Circuit was released for GBA and we started back tracking the strats from that to SMK.
- Not exactly what happened but I was not involved in the community properly till 2017, story is well credible from Sami and KVD etc
I can’t believe this story has the three greatest speedrunners of the game in the world encountering a mysterious man named Eden who bestows upon them the Ancient Scrolls, revealing the forbidden Devil’s Spell technique.
Speedrunning has some wild lore
Knowledge isn't buried, it's just overlooked.
hahaha fr
"Why yall runnin so slow?"
Dude if you're THE @@Eden_GT then you're a legend! How did you even find it?
I really like how he realized that a lot of his viewers know whats a framerule is and was just, "Let's have a little bit of fun."
Going in I was like "If I hear about a motherfucking bus one more time I swear to god..." but he made it entertaining so it works.
"Let's have a little bit of waiting at a bus stop"
Notice this however: it's a bit of breaking the 4th wall, or self awareness, but every time creators that didn't do it started doing it, it was because they started to get bored and was the beginning of a decline in quality. So I'm hoping this will stay as a small joke, but it raises a small red flag for me.
@guillermojperea6355 are u on meth?
It's not like the bus analogy is all over the comments anytime Summoning Salt mentions it
Imagine the two fastest players in the world hanging out when they suddenly hear “I can’t understand why are you so slow”
Arguably the three fastest
Can't believe SS took 48,000 attempts at the framerule explanation just to save his viewers some time. That's why he's the goat
Haha gd reference
Meta joke
@@nikodemi.8046Gd? Geometry dash?
SS?
@@TheMisterDarknight Summoning Salt
Summoning Salt the type of guy to make 1 framerule of timesave seem like the culmination of everything humans have achieved throughout our millions of years of history
and you think that isn't the case
Dude did you even see how insane that is to hit? The practice and patience, mental resilience to literally imitate a machine at whatever frames per second SMB2 runs at? I'm so glad to be able to share this planet with such absolute beasts as niftski and all the other giants he stood on to get to where he is (Andrew G, Darbian, kosmic). NOTHING BUT MAD FUCKING RESPECT
@@ricktheweeb5382 Username checks out....bro Cold Fusion is still a pipedream after all the LHC experiments
@@Edgar193 How impressive it is isn't the same as height of accomplishment... if joking sorry and if not pick up a history book
Millions? More like 6000
imagine the absolute savage mad lad who just up and asks the worlds top mario speedrunners
"y u going so slow"
bro said MOOOOOOOOOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Eden with the Chad activity. Walks up to three speedrunners that have been training for years at least, then goes "why are you using such a slow method" and teaches them a method they missed for years.
This video has such a finality to it, with the runner literally achieving TAS level perfection. Barring a new discovery, the WR on this level will never change.
Yeaa
“Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect.” - Raymond Teller
This is just speedrunning defined. The recent Hades full heat run they said has a 0.0069% chance of completion so is impossible. When I saw that I just thought given enough people and enough time it will get done. A week later it was haha
What a quote.
also autism
Lmao@@ConanVictor
It's how the Allies cracked the Enigma code in WW2.
The Germans knew it was breakable in theory. They just reasoned that the sheer time and effort it'd take would make it implausible anyone would.
Two videos in less than a month is an unbalievable gift we will gladly appreciate
Truly unbeleighvablle
@@tvprestonh5129truly unbalavaboriele
yes i feel blessed
He's speed running content
I'd love to see him do a behind the scenes video where it's just a Speedrun of him making a short video
26:40 ...and had to go back to setting world records. Poor guy.
Such a hilarious way to put it. XD
as a 43 year old man who grew up playing Mario Bros at birthday parties from 1986, this is so goddamn amazing. I mean dont get me wrong, I still have ALL my NES and SNES games, I'm a gamer and was doing speed runs before there were speed runs, it was just my run and gun style back then. But what this has evolved into just warms my heart and amazes the hell out of me. the analyzing of pixels, subpixels and Devil's Spell and the like is just INCREDIBLE. Keep pushing the limits and thanks for this amazing video and deep dive into this history. makes me want to break out All-Stars on SNES and get after the Lost Levels.
Big fan of these smaller-in-scope videos. Spending more time on one trick makes the run easier to follow and the history more appreciable
It's what Summoning Salt is best at. I adore his long form documentary of entire games but I think a video like the 4-2 is still his best because of that.
23:30 Using the channel’s unofficial theme for a comedic bit is brilliant, you can tell he had so much fun making this one.
Fiddingly insteado fa record screech it's simply 'the audio buffer constant looping.' Same as what happens when you bump the NES and knock the cart loose.
@@singletona082 That's only partially correct. What actually happened is for each N samples of audio, repeat that group a certain amount of times. It's basically an easy way to slow audio down without changing the pitch, but it causes the sound to take on a signature metallic aspect.
The NES also did not have an audio buffer. When the cart gets knocked loose, the sound synthesizer just continues whatever notes it was already playing, which is why it doesn't take on a specific tone. GBA and Wii crashes do what you described.
HUH@@JoBot__ Today I learned.
Thank you.
I feel like the production really stepped up a level in this video. There was a lot more comedic edge. If this is a sign of the direction of the channel, I’m on board. Great work as always
Jon Bois has always been a big, obvious influence on Summoning Salt but I really do think this was the first time he (or anybody really) managed to *perfectly* replicate that intangible paradox of myth and humanity that Bois so effortlessly injects into his stuff. This story is ultimately just a silly little thing that some dudes did in a videogame but tracing every step and highlighting all of the human faces behind it and making it sound as important as the moon landing while never losing sight of the fact that this is still just some fun silly thing that fans of a game put a lot of work into really elevates it.
In short, it's Pretty Good
@@4QIceholejon bois is great
the search for the saddest punt had one of the best twists in a yt vid I've ever seen
jon bois is the goat@@4QIcehole
I was laughing my ass off when I saw AndrewG clipping into a pipe as “Hall of the Mountain King“ plays in the background
As an old head it’s funny watching this, as it opened I thought “wow those guys are fast, I used to be pretty fast too back in my day” knowing full well I wasn’t near as fast as them… but by the end I’m watching thinking “thank god I was so bad at Mario and never got hooked on it”
Then I remember how many times I got actual blisters on my thumbs from gaming all night with my baby soft little adolescent fingies.
Speed runners are really …something… yea, they’re really something.
Those old controllers were absolute murder on the thumbs.
10:07 that speedrun timer explaining the 21 framerule is genius 😂
Bro the call-out at 10:54 felt personal lmao
Education% 39.39 (WR)
and is the same explanation for the bus on processors.
Yes, its a real thing, does the same thing with data instead of mario, and has existed for decades.
And poor Bismuth got a brutal drive-by
@@hakageryu-hz7jzso that's why it's called a bus!
I like this more casual, humorous approach in the video. Don't get me wrong, a full-on 1 1/2hr SS production is always great. But the relaxed, light hearted feeling of this video was just as good and fun to watch. Thanks for making this, SS!
It's like an appetizer before the entree. I'm happy with the appy, but I sure love an entree.
I second this. I love this more casual type of video while still having the topic being interesting and having recurring characters. I also love how there’s a little bit more energy than the standard long form videos. I think whenever he does short videos like this he should have this type of energy and have the longer videos like usual for the hardcore viewers.
@@MintiesPoopinI do too / illeyez505 is a golf youtuberr,.,..
I would probably refrain from calling him "SS"
@@yungthicks nope
On the one hand, I must be aware that on the scale of real world priorities, speed running video games rates below 0. But I can't help but admire the sheer dedication, focus and determination these guys put into it and that guy's excitement when he nailed it was really satisfying.
If we put as much effort into figuring out nuclear fusion as speed runners put into lowering their time by a tenth of a second, we would probably have warp engines by now.
Between this and the recent Wave Race 64 discoveries I wonder how many records and techniques that we never realized were / are being used abroad without us knowing.
BRKsEDU here, nice!
What are you doing here? 😂
caraio é o edu
Eduuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Oii edu
“Bismuth’s got nothing on me” has to be my favorite Summoning Salt quote
Bismuth commented on this vid a few hours ago but nobody saw it. go upvote it please.
Their rivalry is what we didn't know we needed
@@LeoStaleywhich hours exactly? I scrolled through the entire 9 hours since the video was uploaded today and I cannot find Bismuth's comment.
Bismuth would make a 7 part video series about frame rules and we would love it.
That's a bit slower than SummoningSalt's strat, but Bismuth can just take the next bus.
@@SushiElemental because he doesn't need to play perfectly to get a good time, one bus later is still a damn good time
5:56 lol, "How bout I do this instead?" *breaks conventional game physics*
18:12 "Discovery" feels like how Columbus "Discovered" America, the Japanese community knew about it the whole time lol
They discovered that the knowledge was already known, so not entirely wrong
10:00 Speedrun explained speedrun, let's go!
"The game only checks for completion every 21 frames"
rip, run is DQed
How did nobody see this comment?
yoooo
Where are the upvotes for the best speedrun video maker?
This needs to be pinned, lol
replying to try to bump this comment in the Algorithm™
Several years ago, we got the history of 4-2. Now, we get 5-2. This is truly an outstanding journey we’ve been on!
Thar vidros out of date. Niftski just set the WR with the first ever tas tie to 8-4 and the final framerule was lightning 4-2
@@ilect1690 Ofc its out of date, most of the videos on this channel are probably out of date, its just the nature of speedrunning
every video which presents speedrunning can only be a snapshot of the current state of the art. @@ilect1690
@@eatingyoshi4403you are right. illeyezcobra is a good youtuberrr.,..,
my summoning salt is uploading soon radar went off
Same bro
Ten minutes in and salt clearly had a lot of fun with this one. Probably the funniest one hes made in a long time
There was a very brief funny moment early in the vid when he showed the comments on Andrew's speedrun. One of them mentioned Salt would make a video on 5-2. I love it
@@mindtrait0r879specifically said lost levels wr progression but yeah pretty much
But...Jimmypoopins!
And then the bus came in.
Hall of the Mountain King to the utter insanity of Andrew G’s skip discovery was so good, probably my favorite use of music by Salt yet
seven minutes in and I am in TEARS. Mountain King was so perfect for that.
It’s so much better when you recognize what the music is and therefore what is about to happen to the music
Comedic Editing Genius
You KNOW that you've found a good youtuber when they can make you feel exhilarated by a subject that you wouldn't normally be interested in. AWESOME JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anytime a human is able to match what a TAS is capable of, I find it astounding. To me, it's like we've matched technology.
Salt was SUPER self-aware in this episode and I AM HERE FOR IT
The use of In the Hall of the Mountain King was pretty funny, to me.
you think he's not self-aware in other episodes?
loved the little forshadowing part - it just took him 10+ years :D
what do you le' mean?
@@caesaria no.
Darbian is just a legend of speedrunning honestly, love that he is such a recurring character on the channel!
Mario: The Infamous History of Level 5-2
27:34 Kosmic somewhere: *Niftski Is too good!* xD
I just have no idea about any of this but gosh, you really do make some art with these videos. The way that you build up the story and explain all the pieces in parts without it being boring and then that final run at the end just hits home. I’ve got goosebumps.
22:16 oh hey that's me! Yeah, I showed that setup to Niftski when I first found it and he didn't believe me until he got it almost first try lmao
omg based
Hi friend. Well done!
this is a moment in history
From 420 Blazit's strats to Niftsky's pop off. I will admit... I cried a little. Thanks for summoning the salt in my eyes.
I'm sitting here waiting for another Summoning Salt video like I'm going through withdrawal.... Please bro
I originally praised the Jon Bois style of editing in the previous videos, but I have to say that it feels good to see an old school style Summoning Salt video. I feel like a mix of the two styles going forward would be great. The chart/graph style fits the longer form videos, but the old style fits the smaller bite-sized videos.
I will say that I also appreciated the faster pace and different music choices in this video. It was neat to hear the familiar tunes from Home, but the classical bit especially really spiced things up.
Overall, great job! These videos are always a treat.
Always love when andrewG gets the ball rolling in these Mario runs
ok
its rly funny to think how every optimization here was discovered between 2004-2008 and the rest of that time was just everyone catching up to that period and stringing it all together
Why did you stop using Patricia Taxxon’s music? It’s been a little over 2 years now and it was some of my favorite
Niftski's excitement is why i love watching these videos. These guys work for years on these runs and yo see a guy nail it is just impressive. Good work Salt. You have yet to disappoint us with a video.
It is impressive but at the end of the day it's just sad.
@Comment-sw5rz You must be fun at parties
@@Intrinsety 😂
190 bpm, baby!!!! Mans is a monster and I'm here for it!
watching his hands is like looking at a robot playing the piano
I love these level/map specific episodes. It's super interesting to find so much speedrunning strategy in one small section of a game, like with Choco Mountain.
6:22 man, I love old school game programming
"yeah, don't rotate the pipe. just put them pieces the other way around. it'll basically look the same, and we have one less sprite to worry about."
"gotcha, boss. say, should we worry about making sure the player enters warp zones through the right entrance?"
"Why? it's harder to program on our limited machines, and we planned the levels so there's only one per area anyway."
"oh, right. sorry, boss. it was just a thought."
new subscriber here! this is genuinely one of the most interesting & well made videos on the platform. you gained a new fan immediately, your storytelling ability, editing, and technical definitions are spot on. I have so many great videos to catch up on now
That iconic end-song fakeout was DEVIOUS, gotta love it
The most devilish lick that Salt has ever hit, and that includes the Matt Turk joke from a while back
A whole episode on a single level!? This is about to be way to complicated for me🤣
Eh, he's done it before.
Remember, though: his episode on 4-2 totally slaps. One of his best.
You say that while only watching the first minute of the video
He's an essay expert
46 likes in 4 minutes is crazy
15:59 makes me wonder how many other ground breaking strategies exist out there already discovered that we don't know about
the excitement in the end of niftski’s run :,) it was a nice editing choice to let that clip speak for itself. great video as always SS !!
Ok I love that Darbian's bus analogy is still the best way to explain the frame rule system.
BUS METAPHOR MAN!
Niftski is literally unbelievable. I’m so glad that when I started watching SMB1 speedruns he just entered the scene with his first WR and since then I’ve witnessed greatness firsthand
His runs don’t count for me since he is cheesing with keyboard but whatever
Yeah…forget being greatness
@@timf6626 Well show me another person who can “cheese” it with a keyboard like him and I’ll agree with you
@@timf6626 xD
he also took part in live races where he played on the original hardware using a controller, and he achieved very good results on the same level as when playing on the keyboard.
some people's takes are... something.
@@timf6626if it’s so easy on keyboard than go ahead and do it yourself
9:13 "you start by doing 2 bumps."
Best way to get going in the morning, better than coffee!
Speed runs bring me so much joy because of the joy of the speedrunners when they finally get it. You know they worked so hard and for so long and the triumph in their voices is just pure and happy. Good shit.
I watched Kosmic's recent video on Niftski being too good, and When SummoningSalt started explaining the TAS, I was like "Niftski is the one who does this." so much hype when he actually did it.
Same lmao
This video and other examples like the rainbow ride skip in MK64 really demonstrate how much can go undiscovered due to the amount of eyes on a game. I really wonder what cool and neat tricks in some other niche games are left undiscovered because they belong to such a small crowd. I’d love to see it.
My favorite thing about speedrunning has always been the insane glitches people are able to pull off, and nothing goes further than the mess of code that is the original Mario games. The fact that you can force your way into upside down pipe by entering it from the top to wrong warp through a vine climb, and it's all just to save 5 seconds, is insane.
bro i remember finding your channel when you had like 10k subscribers and your vids were 'episodes'. you take a while between uploads but its totally worth the wait. every video is such good quality and interesting, even for games i don't play. keep doing what you been doing good work
4:24 The sudden change from the usual synthwave to Hall Of the Mountain King just feels surreal
Yeah, that’s a little bummer for me 😅
Given “Hall of the Mountain King” evokes PEAK Gremlin energy, I wholeheartedly approve of its usage here where speedrunners cracked this game over their knee like a plywood board.
Not really for me, Grieg's music is used everywhere on the Internet, especially in memes.
Salt is like that one professor that everyone both loves AND learns a lot from. Amazing work
I absolutely love summoning salt videos like this that deep dive into the mechanics of a game and how strategies evolve around the risks and rewards. I love following the journeys of the players, but videos like this just grip me so much
cool implementation of the framerule explaining speedrun
I love how with the SMB speedrun innovations, the answers are usually right in front of their face. The TAS from '06 uses the same principle as Devil's Spell but still takes someone randomly telling them how it works 10 years later for them to try it. Great video!
Pretty much.
The love I have for summoning salt is insane. Everything I see he posted I get this unbelievably happy feeling. Thank you man
If my girl left me but summingsalt dropped a new video the day was a good day
@@pg-erk3938love is temporary, salt is eternal
@@pg-erk3938 this is the best comment I've ever seen
24:33
Excuse me
15 A presses per SECOND?
Did I hear that right? Did I understand that right? How does one even muscle spasm hard enough to get that precise?
People can get more than that
I’ve played a LOT of SMB1 in my Younger Days, but I’ve never really been into speedrunning. And yet, you really have a knack for presenting these stories in a manner that is fascinating and compelling, even though it wouldn’t typically be my kind of thing. 👍
same here. It would be fun to try speedrunning one day but it would take so much hard work and dedication for sure
How you can make an incredible video about a 30 second level in a game that 99% of people haven’t played and it still be amazing is incredible in itself, congrats.
99% people haven't played? I guess I was a lucky one
I definitely haven't haha. And watched the whole video, intrigued.
@@sleeper6548I don’t know anyone who hasn’t played it.
@@samueldavis5895a lot of people haven't but 99 is too high. It's like a 40% for has played it. A lot of people know the game tho
The state of zoomer, doesn't even know the origin of Mario
I really like this format! The longer full-game videos are great, but this more bite-sized deep dive was really excellent :) Hope you'll do more of these in the future, where it would make sense!
That's awesome! Massive Gratz to everyone involved in making this happen and especially Niftski! All you guys are awesome and so entertaining to watch what you do best. And no one does these videos better than you do them SummoningSalt.
Amazing Salt. Honestly, after knowing so much about the NES SMB games and their history, I thought this might be boring. Boy was I wrong! So much stuff I had never heard of, or at least never paid close enough attention to. It made me feel like it was my first time seeing someone play the level. Like I was on an historical journey. All these milestones are amazing to witness. Congrats to all the players and to Mr. Salt for this festival of talent. The ending had me literally cheering out loud. Thanks so much guys for all of your hard work. Cheers!
You always know the new summoning salt video will be a banger
You’re first!
@@Saturnth damn thats crazy
how did you get 25 likes within 1 minute damn!!!
@@elmallocby being first
One of the only channels I have notifications turned on for
Ah Niftski being too good... just the usual stuff... He is literally the guy about whom you can say "had to settle for just setting world records"
He’s so good that he’s been quoted by kosmic saying this about his planned future attempts of SMB1 any%: “I just hope the grind is longer this time”
One day later, he reset the world record 💀
But he uses a keyboard...
He is just as good with actual hardware. There is plenty of proof from events and such he has taken part in. Niftski is a beast! @@Sir_Adam
@@Sir_Adam yes, it is insane how he is good with both keyboard and original hardware at the same time...
@@KimParkkinen But how can you put his run in the same ranking as others who use an NES controller? Keyboards give you much easier use of your fingers depending on the layout.
That's like putting a keyboard user against a controller user in an FPS game.
"Bismuth's got nothing on me" I love you folks so much
I run your playlist for my cats everyday that i go to work.
Your welcome. Make more content please.
6:09 He called it! 😅
Technically, but it’s the history of 5-2
The consistency from Summoning Salt recently is crazy, he's on world record pace!
Then he can make a video about his world record video on world records.
And I will watch it.
I love your videos! Before, I never would have dreamed this level could have such a nuanced history.
It is crazy. it makes you wonder the amount of depth that goes into other games and levels we havent even though about
These videos shape me as a whole
Ye they are nice. illeyez505 is a good youtuberrr.,,.
@@thejacket3891fax he is good at gta
They shape my hole ..
Coems🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
"This is the history of 5-2." It's so definitive because this is one of those rare moments where history is just...complete. There's no doing better than this. Just incredible
A concept: TAS2MIDI, a tool that converts the button presses to MIDI drum sounds as an artistic aural understanding of what's happening during the run. You can compare the sounds of a true TAS against the world records over time to see the complexity in timing needed as progress was made.
Make it a reality!
Make this.
That would be awesome to hear. There is definitely overlap between performing rhythmically complex music and performing precise inputs in a game. Over time speedrunners develop an internal clock, and end up “feeling” the timing of inputs similar to how a musician would feel an odd time sig. I wonder if we’ll ever see people running games to a metronome.
@@theoppositeistrueObviously, having made this suggestion, I'm a little musically inclined. I'm come to believe that a human being tends to feel their natural rhythm in the range of 100-150, with energetic dance music feeling best in the 120-180 bpm range. If we want to translate that down to beats per second, we're looking at 2-3 beats per second. And musically, that would be for a quarter note, with music commonly breaking that down into two eighth notes, and at a more complex layer, four sixteenth notes. Only the most articulate of artistic endeavors would consider using a thirty second note or further, and only then for a deeper reason than a performance would ever present.
So, that was a long winded way of saying that humans feel good processing things musically around 2-3 beats per second, and those beats can be broken down into 2 or 4 times by most people as dense bits of data our mind is processing. If you multiply all these options together, you get 4, 6, 8, and 12 "frames" of data for the everyman, and maybe some extension for people with good rhythm. So now lets think about what video games are asking of us.
Most video game engines are processing input from the user/player/speedrunner anywhere from 30 to 60 times a second most commonly, with some going further, but sticking to the norm is best here.
This means that based on the range of "frames" per second and the range of frames per second we get from video games, can we find some reasonable comparisons to make?
While our numbers are a bit conservative for the everyman, we can still see that at the highest frame processing rate theorized still has 2.5 frames of video data happen for the lowest input rate of most games. That's why it's a learned skill. If you're not musically inclined, you may miss a lot of detail from a performed piece. Likewise, if you're not practiced with video game inputs, you may miss a lot a jumps in a Mario game. So let's think about this the other way around. What does it take to keep up with a video game if defined by beats per minute or music?
EDIT: All the math after here is bad, I'm wrong by a factor of 10. Should be 3600 times a minute.
If you're playing a 60 inputs per second game, you're requesting data to be processed and acted on 360 times a minute. I just so happen to have a way to break that into something I can have you listen to.
For my own amusement I've been working on taking the song Chattermax from the album Bluey: Dance Mode! and turning it into a "Max 300" styled step chart, calling my chart "Chatter(Max 360)", as nods to both the proper title Joff Bush gave to the track, as well as the lineage of the song charts that inspired the work. But that title I gave should have brought up a flag.
The "Max" series of songs are titled From the original Max 300, a 300 bpm song, set up the be the end boss for anyone wild enough to play of song on the hardest difficulty, and get a full combo, but on top of that, have less then like 16% of the steps be below the Perfect rating. The song regularly had you hit runs of eighth notes at a blazing 300 bpm, but there's a secret behind that.
Conceptually, 300 bpm can also be done at 150 bpm, but instead of eighth notes being the smallest note, it would be a sixteenth note. Compare that with what we said the everyman could commonly process. The everyman simply needs to learn to process one more division of beat further to be capable of processing something like Max 300. That's still a lot to ask, but now you have context.
But now, Chatter(Max 360). Yes, it plays on the screen at 360 bpm, but I was only able to set it there because Chattermax was written as a 180 bpm song and I doubled it for the game. And again, with eighth notes being the deepest it goes. BTW, if you listen to the song the rhythm of the words "Chattermax" is on the eighth notes. Chat-ter-max, one-and-two. If you can process the individual beats at that speed ad nauseum, you can be a speedrunner.
Okay, where did I go? Anyway, yes, a metronome at 180 bpm with you processing each input as a sixteenth note is what Niftski is doing speedruns of SMB1, and he should use a tool like my silly idea for practice.
Now to copy paste this out, and start recording a really badly presented video essay.
@@cliftonchurch6039 I understand the logic, but don’t know how to program the software. If you do end up creating a piece of music where each input of the SM1 TAS run = a note in the arrangement, you have to upload it!!
It doesn’t even need to be made using a program that translates the controller inputs into midi. It could theoretically be made by painstakingly writing all of the audio / midi entirely in the timeline of your DAW, where 0:00 in-game is of course 0:00 in the track. Would be even better if multiple instruments were used to make it musical, rather than just a sort of timing-map-that-uses-audio.
Reaper will let you use a gamepad as a midi controller. If someone were to have both the emulator and reaper running simultaneously, they could both play and record the midi at the same time. Would love to hear that
This topic selection is a great change of pace for your channel.
It was also very well executed.
Congrats on an earlier release than usual; lots of work and time go in to these videos so, sincere appreciation for the effort of you and your team.
I agree the production quality it great
From 27:40 onwards it's like we see the distillation of a generation's worth of trial, error and experimentation surge through Niftski's fingers with the most exquisite timing. His cry of joy was like a true scream... impossible to not be affected by.
Thanks again for incredible content.
i was sleeping... this 27
25 woke me
i could listen to you explain framerules every hour of every day for years and not get bored of it
Summoning salt discovering "in the hall of the of the mountain king" is the best thing to happen this year
When you explained how precise the TAS setup had to be, I knew that only Niftski had the power to pull it off. Sure enough, he did. Great video!
6:00 made my jaw drop. excellent music choice to underscore it too.
Andrew G deserves a Nobel Prize for his contributions to Mario speed running.
Petition to create a Nobel Prize for Speedrunning. Imagine seeing the new revolutionizing strategies explained to the swedish nobility by 420_BlazeIt
Top... gee
@@Gurrehable Imagine them announcing that 420_BlazeIt had won an award for developing the four-frame setup for the subpixels in the 5-2 Wrong Warp…
Physics & the Peace categories comes to mind...
20 years from now
"Dad, what's a bus?"
"Well, imagine a framerule..."
21:23
Mom: Come on Phil, it’s time to open presents!
Phil: Give me a couple minutes mom, I’m posting a speed run.
10:53
Actually, Bismuth is quite a fierce competitor in the advancements of framerule explanations. In his video where he explains the world record of the Legend of Zelda, he explained the framerule system without using the bus analogy. This opens up an opportunity to beat the record using a trick I'm going to call "bus skip." Another way to improve the record is "timer skip." Explaining that saving in game second generally saves a framerule is unnecessary and not very true. You can definitely improve, but you should act fast. Bismuth might beat you to it in his next video.
Bismuth commented on this vid a few hours ago but nobody saw it. go upvote it so it gets into the top comments.
15:10 i swear this part feels like an anime where 3 masters (of gaming) meet some ancient master that refers to a legendary (web)page with a technique called Devil's Spell. Great shit.
Ironically I'm way younger than them.
I just wanted to say I watch every one of your videos that comes out. I don't speed run personally, but the videos you make are always so intresting and keep me engaged the entire video. Thank you for the many years of great videos, you deserve everything you have worked so hard for!
Hes been printing out documentaries like a machine lately. Love to see it but don't overwork yourself. Pretty sure im speaking for the whole community here when i say that we are completely fine with waiting for your videos. They're 100% worth whatever time you need.
Does his work ethic frighten you as you feign empathy.
@@JoshuaKevinPerry his schedule has been MUCH faster than it used to be, it's reasonable to at least ask
I´ll guess he´s just flowing, having perfected his production/scripts/always humor should for sure have impacted his "productivity". :) go salt@@echowoods7977
@@JoshuaKevinPerrydoes empathy frighten you as you feign edge
@@aliceyuri lmao, fr tho put down the thesaurus
Thanks for posting the doc with all the music, lots of cool stuff there (: