Jake, Im ignorant of electrical but have a couple of questions. 1.Do you recommend leaving room for expansion of the homes electrical? 2.If one wanted to add solar down the road,is there something further one would want to put in now while while everything is accessible? Thanx Jake!! Tim.,
+ScootOverMan It's never a bad idea to have some head-room in any system, especially electrical. If you install just enough for what you need, you've built yourself into a corner for the future. We hope to have some solar in the future and what we've done is left an empty conduit that is accessible from outside, and leads into our control-panel area... we will show more detail in the next few episodes.
The only plug you have working mounted wit the ground prong at the bottom just the opposite of what you said you were going to do . . . just used to doing it that way.
Ha yeah, I think we had an extension cord on there that was a 90-degree end which favoured the orientation you saw here... and in fact, that receptacle is still oriented with the ground prong at the bottom because the power-bar I'm using for my PC has that kind of 90-degree end. We've customized the orientations to suit their uses.
+L. D Hyatt It hasn't tripped with a halogen work-light, vacuum, and saw all going at once... but that could also mean that the breaker is junk... that is known to happen with some brands of breakers *cough* FPE *cough*
I might need to email you about this, but maybe you'll see it here: Could you just wire the extension cord into both the black and red hots of the tiny house at the same time? Would the two legs of the system simply "share" the power of the single leg coming in, making them both just regular 120v 12 amp? Obviously you'd lose a lot of overall capacity, because you're just running the whole house off a single household outlet, basically... but yeah... I ask because they make these adapters that go from nema 14-50 to nema 15-5... Will that work with your tiny house? Bridging the hots, or something??? Another thought: could you wire a second extension cord, from a different circuit, into the other hot line, and share the neutral/ground out of the tiny house?
In short, yes I could have theoretically done that with the extension cord, but that would have been a modification to the intended use of an electrical device (the panel), which is a very slippery slope, because everything down the line needs to account for that, including any humans that may interact with it at any point in the future... so it's highly inadvisable in most situations. In my case, I have wiring that absolutely requires both legs to be present, and bridging them like you've described could lead to the neutral on particular circuits to by overloaded by double their ampacity, which is an extreme fire hazard. You wouldn't want to share a neutral from independent circuits, because yes it would function, but if you shut off one of the circuits, its neutral could still have current flowing on it from the other interconnected circuit that is still energized, creating an unexpected source of harmful power. There is a very standardized way of wiring so that everything operates safely and as expected... in some rare situations it can be safe to make a slight tweak to something, mostly if it's temporary, but it should be avoided at all costs, and never done by someone who is not deeply and intimately familiar with electrical systems.
That actually all makes sense... I must be learning things! I need to look into how these "dog bone" adapters work... I've wired my tiny up the same way you did, with the 2 legs of the system each getting 120v, and have a 4-prong 50 amp plug ready to receive a 240v outlet, but it would be swell to have the flexibility to plug into a simple 15 amp plug in a pinch, if only to run the fridge. Thanks for the detailed reply!
You could always just energize the leg that contains the fridge breaker (leaving the other leg unenergized). That way, there is no risk of the effects of interconnecting the legs.
You have the best electrical videos for a THOws. I Am ultimately going totally off grid but am starting with 50 amp. Two questions : I bound 100 amp box kit that takes standard D breakers but the box I bought is huge & heavy. Is it worth the weight and space to pack it up & pay to ship it back for a mor petite version (yours is anoint 1/3 the size of what I have). Second question : does one need to use an extension for cut and reassembled or is there another standard method like installing a 50ampservicw wire to the circuit box and run that to a female receptical outlet on extererior where one would’ve have there pug in safely tucked away (but would have to spice, on a male plug. I am familiar with all sorts I’d step down attachments to accommodate diff plug & power requirements . Alternatively am I better just installing a 50 amp cord to supply and create a safe place to tuck up? Perhaps I’m just way over powering and should go your route. Any feedback welcome if gentle.
The size of the panel depends on how many breakers you think you will need... many tiny houses can get away with as few as 4 breakers, but we have a more elaborate setup with electric cooking so our panel is quite large for a tiny house... if yours is 3x the size of ours, then I would say that it's probably a lot bigger than you need. A good way to connect power would be to start with a proper cable run between the main panel and the undercarriage (like we did) then convert it to a short length of flexible cable with a male connector on it... this can dangle (or tuck away) until you connect it to an extension cord that runs over to the source of your power (a house or RV receptacle). Hopefully this helps... it's a bit hard to describe all this in text, so if in doubt, get some help in-person. Always be safe when working on electrical. And make sure every part of the system (the panel, the cables, the connectors, the extension cord, etc) are sized to match or exceed the amount of power that they could be required to transmit.
You could always use a connector through a blank cover to terminate one end of a 240V-50A extension cord... if that makes sense... so you'd have a little 1ft inlet cable dangling out instead of an inlet device inside the box like you described. Kinda like this: www.theelectricbrewery.com/images/parts/50A-4-conductor-stove-power-cord.jpg
Tiny Nest yes I was thinking about that also. After much searching I ended up finding one. Have to look under a 50 amp generator plug in. With a weather tight twist lock. Then a length of cord with a female 50 amp twist lock will do.
I'm confused. I watched you connect the black wire to the extension cord & cap off the red. You went inside & said the red wire was energized. I even rolled back the video to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. Was this a test to see if we were paying attention? What did I win? I've always wanted to visit Hawaii (hint hint).
+Bryant Ford WE HAVE A WINNER! lol, no actually I had filmed things in an order that was convenient while still completing the work... so by the time I shot the interior bit, I had already tested the black line and switched the outside connection to the red. Nice catch ;) ah the miracle of editing.
Is it only 2 phases in Canada, not 3 ?? I'm from Russia, here is 220 is single phase voltage, and 3 phases have 380v between phases (shifted by 120 deg)
+SashNone Residential services are all single-phase, while apartments and businesses are usually 3-phase 120/208... then industrial is 347/600 or 480 etc.
Bond? That must be a Canadian thing; Americans just call it The Ground, so you're good to just call it that. ;-) (added) You said "there's nobody around.." and I thought "to pick you up from being laid on the ground (from an electrical shock)" LOL! I know that it will only give a bite, but I have been grabbed by a wire (when I was young) and in Avionics (radar) I had friends who couldn't let go of a hot wire. Great episodes; thanks guys.
+Dustin O Yeah the Canadian code has adopted it in the last decade or so, and it's a good change in my opinion. The few times I've touched 120V it's just like an uncomfortable buzz, but if you are barefoot or touching something else that's bonded (see what I did there ;D) then it can definitely hurt you. Best practice is simply to never handle anything that is live. It should only ever be exposed to you when you need to test it with a multi-meter, and that's it. Thanks for watching :)
No sir! Well... almost... the reason to use "bond" instead of "ground" is to differentiate between the wire that actually links the system to the earth (buried plate or rod) and all the other wires that interconnect everything to that "ground" wire... those are called "bonding" wires.
I love this series. I've watched every single episode its so interesting. Thank you so much for documenting your build, it probably takes a lot of work but we appreciate it. Can't wait till you guys finish :) much luv from Toronto
I try to keep up, but you guys just drone on and on, I always lose track of what you are talking about....lol. When the time comes, I will be using the pause play a lot to absorb it in smaller pieces. haha Keep up the great job.
+per sebra I (Jake) am know for this... but "droning" is a little harsh, we prefer to call it the jibba-jab.... lol, yeah this technical stuff can get a little wordy :P
Tiny Nest It wasn't meant in a harsh way! I am world famous for my inability to focus. yuck, yuck! Anyhoo, I am sure all your followers appreciates your gift for detailed explanations.
My tiny house has a very similar setup, and I am wondering about 3 prong 220v extension chords. I know there is a drop in power over distance, but the house I hope to park near is around 200' away from my tiny house , is there a exterior 220v extension chord you might recommend? Also curious what the different is between a 3 prong and a 4 prong? two ground one for each side? Thanks a ton!!
The thinner the cord is + the more current you are pulling -> the more chance you have of voltage drop. If you are only drawing a small amount of power, it shouldn't be a problem. A 3-prong 240V cable would only provide you with 240V to use (not 120V which almost all regular household stuff uses in North-America) since the 3rd prong/conductor would be the bond/ground. The 4th prong/conductor would be the neutral, which would provide two 120V legs (with 240V between them). It's very important to have these things straightened out to avoid ending up with something that can't do what you need, or worse: create a safety hazard :P Thanks for watching!
Hey Jake, I have a quick question for you! Since you have 2 phases, and later on you supply temporary power to the system with only one phase connected... Why didnt you use 1 phase instead again? If you are drawing 50 amps from your location does it matter to have the load split into two phases? I am thinking of doing a #8 3 wire into my 125A 120/240V circuit panel 1 phase - if i hook up to a 50amp (meaning there are two HOT wires coming in) wont it just energize my whole phase for 50 amp use, and if i can only use 30 amps im still covered for 30 amp total usage... Is there a limit to this system compaired to 2 phases? - (do i only recieve 50 amps at 120V (or 240V) instead of your 100amp because i only have one phase?) PS. I have spent hours watching your building series.... we am well on my way to completing our dream home! you guys are easily the most thorough and in depth channel! thank you so much for your efforts, it has made this possible for us!
We've been in touch via email, but just to put the answer out there: the main benefit of a 240V (both legs) supply is that you can effectively double the amount of power you receive from the supply while using the same size of cabling (instead of requiring a cable that is double the size, you require a cable with one more conductor of the same size)... power is voltage multiplied by amperage, so 240 vs 120 doubles it even if the amperage limit stays the same. The main drawback of this is that the system becomes more complicated and must be configured correctly or else there can be huge safety hazards... it also means that you are committed to requiring a 240V supply (you can't just run a regular extension cord). It's hard to explain the concept of the AC phase and how the two legs are split and can share a neutral etc... I recommend researching electrical theory in order to understand this, and if it doesn't click (and I mean really click) then do not attempt to work on or install electrical materials yourself.
Nice
+Blane Imhoff (Hoof) :)
Good job! Safety first!
+pieter zeeuwen Indeed!
Jake,
Im ignorant of electrical but have a couple of questions.
1.Do you recommend leaving room for expansion of the homes electrical?
2.If one wanted to add solar down the road,is there something further one would want to put in now while while everything is accessible?
Thanx Jake!!
Tim.,
+ScootOverMan It's never a bad idea to have some head-room in any system, especially electrical. If you install just enough for what you need, you've built yourself into a corner for the future.
We hope to have some solar in the future and what we've done is left an empty conduit that is accessible from outside, and leads into our control-panel area... we will show more detail in the next few episodes.
The only plug you have working mounted wit the ground prong at the bottom just the opposite of what you said you were going to do . . . just used to doing it that way.
Ha yeah, I think we had an extension cord on there that was a 90-degree end which favoured the orientation you saw here... and in fact, that receptacle is still oriented with the ground prong at the bottom because the power-bar I'm using for my PC has that kind of 90-degree end. We've customized the orientations to suit their uses.
looking good
+Edward Wilcox :)
LOL! Jake and his wires!!!
+Eric Rider Oh there are moar coming!
Good job bro
thanks bruh :D
hey guys just wondering how many outlets and lights can you run off that one drop cord temp power.
+L. D Hyatt It hasn't tripped with a halogen work-light, vacuum, and saw all going at once... but that could also mean that the breaker is junk... that is known to happen with some brands of breakers *cough* FPE *cough*
I might need to email you about this, but maybe you'll see it here:
Could you just wire the extension cord into both the black and red hots of the tiny house at the same time? Would the two legs of the system simply "share" the power of the single leg coming in, making them both just regular 120v 12 amp? Obviously you'd lose a lot of overall capacity, because you're just running the whole house off a single household outlet, basically... but yeah...
I ask because they make these adapters that go from nema 14-50 to nema 15-5... Will that work with your tiny house? Bridging the hots, or something???
Another thought: could you wire a second extension cord, from a different circuit, into the other hot line, and share the neutral/ground out of the tiny house?
In short, yes I could have theoretically done that with the extension cord, but that would have been a modification to the intended use of an electrical device (the panel), which is a very slippery slope, because everything down the line needs to account for that, including any humans that may interact with it at any point in the future... so it's highly inadvisable in most situations. In my case, I have wiring that absolutely requires both legs to be present, and bridging them like you've described could lead to the neutral on particular circuits to by overloaded by double their ampacity, which is an extreme fire hazard.
You wouldn't want to share a neutral from independent circuits, because yes it would function, but if you shut off one of the circuits, its neutral could still have current flowing on it from the other interconnected circuit that is still energized, creating an unexpected source of harmful power.
There is a very standardized way of wiring so that everything operates safely and as expected... in some rare situations it can be safe to make a slight tweak to something, mostly if it's temporary, but it should be avoided at all costs, and never done by someone who is not deeply and intimately familiar with electrical systems.
That actually all makes sense... I must be learning things! I need to look into how these "dog bone" adapters work... I've wired my tiny up the same way you did, with the 2 legs of the system each getting 120v, and have a 4-prong 50 amp plug ready to receive a 240v outlet, but it would be swell to have the flexibility to plug into a simple 15 amp plug in a pinch, if only to run the fridge.
Thanks for the detailed reply!
You could always just energize the leg that contains the fridge breaker (leaving the other leg unenergized). That way, there is no risk of the effects of interconnecting the legs.
You have the best electrical videos for a THOws. I Am ultimately going totally off grid but am starting with 50 amp. Two questions : I bound 100 amp box kit that takes standard D breakers but the box I bought is huge & heavy. Is it worth the weight and space to pack it up & pay to ship it back for a mor petite version (yours is anoint 1/3 the size of what I have). Second question : does one need to use an extension for cut and reassembled or is there another standard method like installing a 50ampservicw wire to the circuit box and run that to a female receptical outlet on extererior where one would’ve have there pug in safely tucked away (but would have to spice, on a male plug. I am familiar with all sorts I’d step down attachments to accommodate diff plug & power requirements . Alternatively am I better just installing a 50 amp cord to supply and create a safe place to tuck up? Perhaps I’m just way over powering and should go your route. Any feedback welcome if gentle.
The size of the panel depends on how many breakers you think you will need... many tiny houses can get away with as few as 4 breakers, but we have a more elaborate setup with electric cooking so our panel is quite large for a tiny house... if yours is 3x the size of ours, then I would say that it's probably a lot bigger than you need.
A good way to connect power would be to start with a proper cable run between the main panel and the undercarriage (like we did) then convert it to a short length of flexible cable with a male connector on it... this can dangle (or tuck away) until you connect it to an extension cord that runs over to the source of your power (a house or RV receptacle).
Hopefully this helps... it's a bit hard to describe all this in text, so if in doubt, get some help in-person. Always be safe when working on electrical. And make sure every part of the system (the panel, the cables, the connectors, the extension cord, etc) are sized to match or exceed the amount of power that they could be required to transmit.
I've yet to find a 240 volt 50amp male inlet that fits inside of a receptacle box. Any luck finding one? It's either that or a suicide cord lol
You could always use a connector through a blank cover to terminate one end of a 240V-50A extension cord... if that makes sense... so you'd have a little 1ft inlet cable dangling out instead of an inlet device inside the box like you described. Kinda like this: www.theelectricbrewery.com/images/parts/50A-4-conductor-stove-power-cord.jpg
Tiny Nest yes I was thinking about that also. After much searching I ended up finding one. Have to look under a 50 amp generator plug in. With a weather tight twist lock. Then a length of cord with a female 50 amp twist lock will do.
That's the first time I've heard of a 'Zap Strap.' Funny stuff.
+John Norris
Zip-Tie
Tye-Wrap
Zip-Strip
Cable Tie
How did u do ur main breaker
We don't have a main, but we could reconfigure it in the future.
I'm confused. I watched you connect the black wire to the extension cord & cap off the red. You went inside & said the red wire was energized. I even rolled back the video to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.
Was this a test to see if we were paying attention? What did I win? I've always wanted to visit Hawaii (hint hint).
+Bryant Ford WE HAVE A WINNER! lol, no actually I had filmed things in an order that was convenient while still completing the work... so by the time I shot the interior bit, I had already tested the black line and switched the outside connection to the red. Nice catch ;) ah the miracle of editing.
+Tiny Nest lol i noticed that too and i figured you did that...hahah it was trippy tho
Is it only 2 phases in Canada, not 3 ?? I'm from Russia, here is 220 is single phase voltage, and 3 phases have 380v between phases (shifted by 120 deg)
+SashNone Residential services are all single-phase, while apartments and businesses are usually 3-phase 120/208... then industrial is 347/600 or 480 etc.
Bond? That must be a Canadian thing; Americans just call it The Ground, so you're good to just call it that. ;-)
(added) You said "there's nobody around.." and I thought "to pick you up from being laid on the ground (from an electrical shock)" LOL! I know that it will only give a bite, but I have been grabbed by a wire (when I was young) and in Avionics (radar) I had friends who couldn't let go of a hot wire.
Great episodes; thanks guys.
+Dustin O Yeah the Canadian code has adopted it in the last decade or so, and it's a good change in my opinion.
The few times I've touched 120V it's just like an uncomfortable buzz, but if you are barefoot or touching something else that's bonded (see what I did there ;D) then it can definitely hurt you. Best practice is simply to never handle anything that is live. It should only ever be exposed to you when you need to test it with a multi-meter, and that's it.
Thanks for watching :)
what kind of panel do you use ?
It's a small Eaton brand panel.
Bond is ground sir, i am right sir?
No sir!
Well... almost... the reason to use "bond" instead of "ground" is to differentiate between the wire that actually links the system to the earth (buried plate or rod) and all the other wires that interconnect everything to that "ground" wire... those are called "bonding" wires.
I love this series. I've watched every single episode its so interesting. Thank you so much for documenting your build, it probably takes a lot of work but we appreciate it. Can't wait till you guys finish :) much luv from Toronto
+Y. Danino Thanks!!
cool deal wish y'all the best
+Scott Tyndall :D
I try to keep up, but you guys just drone on and on, I always lose track of what you are talking about....lol. When the time comes, I will be using the pause play a lot to absorb it in smaller pieces. haha
Keep up the great job.
+per sebra I (Jake) am know for this... but "droning" is a little harsh, we prefer to call it the jibba-jab.... lol, yeah this technical stuff can get a little wordy :P
Tiny Nest It wasn't meant in a harsh way! I am world famous for my inability to focus. yuck, yuck!
Anyhoo, I am sure all your followers appreciates your gift for detailed explanations.
+per sebra lol just giving you a hard time ;)
My tiny house has a very similar setup, and I am wondering about 3 prong 220v extension chords. I know there is a drop in power over distance, but the house I hope to park near is around 200' away from my tiny house , is there a exterior 220v extension chord you might recommend? Also curious what the different is between a 3 prong and a 4 prong? two ground one for each side?
Thanks a ton!!
The thinner the cord is + the more current you are pulling -> the more chance you have of voltage drop. If you are only drawing a small amount of power, it shouldn't be a problem.
A 3-prong 240V cable would only provide you with 240V to use (not 120V which almost all regular household stuff uses in North-America) since the 3rd prong/conductor would be the bond/ground. The 4th prong/conductor would be the neutral, which would provide two 120V legs (with 240V between them). It's very important to have these things straightened out to avoid ending up with something that can't do what you need, or worse: create a safety hazard :P
Thanks for watching!
I have been meaning to ask , what is the end game are you guys down sizing or is this going to be a get away house
+Scott Tyndall We intend to move into this tiny house as our home :)
Wow way over my head I'll hire someone and have them watch the video first to be sure they understand the fine art of tiny house wiring (bonding)
+Holly Laughter As long as it gets done well ;)... thanks for watching
Hey Jake, I have a quick question for you!
Since you have 2 phases, and later on you supply temporary power to the system with only one phase connected... Why didnt you use 1 phase instead again? If you are drawing 50 amps from your location does it matter to have the load split into two phases?
I am thinking of doing a #8 3 wire into my 125A 120/240V circuit panel 1 phase - if i hook up to a 50amp (meaning there are two HOT wires coming in) wont it just energize my whole phase for 50 amp use, and if i can only use 30 amps im still covered for 30 amp total usage... Is there a limit to this system compaired to 2 phases? - (do i only recieve 50 amps at 120V (or 240V) instead of your 100amp because i only have one phase?)
PS. I have spent hours watching your building series.... we am well on my way to completing our dream home! you guys are easily the most thorough and in depth channel! thank you so much for your efforts, it has made this possible for us!
We've been in touch via email, but just to put the answer out there: the main benefit of a 240V (both legs) supply is that you can effectively double the amount of power you receive from the supply while using the same size of cabling (instead of requiring a cable that is double the size, you require a cable with one more conductor of the same size)... power is voltage multiplied by amperage, so 240 vs 120 doubles it even if the amperage limit stays the same. The main drawback of this is that the system becomes more complicated and must be configured correctly or else there can be huge safety hazards... it also means that you are committed to requiring a 240V supply (you can't just run a regular extension cord). It's hard to explain the concept of the AC phase and how the two legs are split and can share a neutral etc... I recommend researching electrical theory in order to understand this, and if it doesn't click (and I mean really click) then do not attempt to work on or install electrical materials yourself.
Am I the first one to suggest a ground (BOND) drinking game?
+MakeMeThinkAgain Only if the drinks are all vodka martinis.
6:20 6:25 Hilarious!
+Rayn Gryphon ;)