100% agree. And I actually 100% agree with the story-wise list too. I really did not like what they did to Saeko, it is the same shit that they pulled with Hoshino in Lost Judgment (downgrading certain characters to uplift others in a copout manner). The worst part is that I worry that RGG will sweep the whole love affair under the rug, returning to Nagoshi's bad tendencies of not having coherent sequels that flow from one game to another. They would have to find the say to sail that ship away from the iceberg, which sounds harsh, but they kinda have to since they did the oopsie themselves.
@@shadowmamba95 I didn’t care much about Saeko in 7 so it didn’t really bother me. But yeah I hope they don’t like not mention Ichi and Saeko at all in 9 because that’s definitely something that would happen in the old games
@@shadowmamba95 Considering nagoshi is neither at RGG anymore nor has he been the main writer ever, I find that a little hard to believe. They already sailed that ship in the ending of this game so they have no reason to pretend it didn't happen.
Creator of the Job tierlist here, thank you so much for using it! I've actually been thinking about making a tierlist of every single substory in the series too, if that's something else you're interested in
Thank you for making the list! I've been asked multiple times either as a joke or for real, to make a substory tier list which I always am afraid of because there must be like a thousand of them now. If you do actually go for it and make it, I might just do it. I don't know how, but I will. Maybe multi part stream?
zhao being the lowest gameplay wise is INSANE. only real problem is the lack of a grapple, but you can supplement that with an inheritance slot. his damage output is bonkers, especially once you get his best weapon, which ignores all resistances. pair that with some attack buff skills, and he does like 4k dmg per turn. he carried so hard during the last long battle for me.
Yeah Zhao, other than being my favorite member of Ichiban's crew(other than Ichiban himself), is always in my party even if he joins late because he's like you said, a really good DPS + he has good support skills like the Dim Sum abilities and add in skill inheritance and he can cover a far better range than how he was in 7. I always had it Kiryu, Nanba, Seonhee and Zhao once he joined. Not that Saeko is bad by any means, just that one had to sit out. 🤷♂️
All the party members are very much viable like I said in the vid, it's just that he has less variety compared to other party members, at least when it comes to his default job skills.
@devilleon7 Yeah I just figured out that you didn't include skill inheritance cause that would cover most of, if not all of the flaws each character has when it comes to their default class. I do agree that the lack of a grapple and mostly blunt and blade moves lacks variety/utility. It kind of makes up for it in damage/debuffing utility imo but I feel his dim sum abilities are kind of underrated because yes, healing over time is not as great as instant heal but I feel it would be too OP if it was because you add in the status ailment resistance to an instant heal(or if they wanted to make it really OP, an instant heal with removing status ailments) and it would help bump up his rank a bit. But yes I miss his Beast Kiwami move as well and sad that his ladder one got nerfed a bit. Also for me personally, Zhao usually got a turn in before Nanba on my playthrough so I either think he's on par or just above Nanba when it comes to agility cause the other 3 always got turns in before he did.
I've been building him towards blades damage, during the Big Swell S3 boss fight, I got him to do a massive 15k damage to one of the bosses. Needless to say, he's insane
@@herusetiawan5399 My bad then. The Detective job was so subpar in 7 that I barely gave it any thoughts. It wasn't worth keeping him in the job when Enforcer did pretty much everything better for him. The Inheritance mechanic really changed the game.
Do you know what id love to see this i was hoping that Awakara was goint to be a party member in 8 when i first played 7 for obvious reasons that idea went out the window but i just thought it would have been a cool dynamic to have a characters father figure be not only still around but also very present in there life.
I'll put Zhao higher in battle capability since he has the Dumpling that gives your party health regen with status resist. Really helps when I was fighting Amons at the end of Yokohama haunt.
Only just began watching the VOD, I have a funny story to share about Knockout Combo and the Yokohama Dungeon final boss. (Spoilers for those who haven't beaten it) . . So you know how one of the Amons uses Fight Night buff (I think it's Jiro Amon) and gives everyone a level 3 attack buff? I had been debuffing all of them throughout the fight AND had Relentless Dragon's Dance up for Ichiban. Took my shot at Jo Amon, lined up that Knockout Combo and took off 40% of his HP at level 57, only two above the Amons. That was it for dear old Jo. He never stood a chance lmao. Love this game's combat so, so much.
Damn, now that you mention it, I do realize that Joon-gi had a bit more to do with the plot overall than Zhao despite being the last one to join. Zhao's literally just being a bro(which all of them are tbh) and tagging along.
Shoutout to the blessed leviathan for being the vore boss of the yakuza series that they didn't have to make and yet they did. I am kinda 50/50 on him honestly yeah it's a cool fight but the acid hurting you every turn without you being able to do anything against it fucking sucks.
Adachi really is the bro I had a newfound appreciation for him and Nanba in this game when they came in clutch in Hawaii. Didn’t quite feel the same attachment to them in 7
Things I've found in this game is Zhao's heal is actually pretty good iirc it helps protect against status ailments and prevention is always better than cure as they say. Aquanaut was alright but does fall off mid to late game once you get the elec skill, Tomizawa is such a goat though no matter his class.
In terms of the story, yeah I do not know why they try to destroy Saeko's character like that. It is the exact same thing they did with Hoshino in Lost Judgment and it pisses me off because RGG is trying to uplift other characters like Chitose, Shirosaki, Seonhee, etc. But they take the lazy route by downgrading other characters, which is just a copout that nobody asked. As for Saeko herself, I think Ichiban and Saeko being in a relationship would work, but RGG executed it so poorly that I worry that they will try to walk it back as if that did not happen (I like to call this the Nagoshi character curse, you can thank SnowiestAngeman for that one). Also, I have something to ask to RGG, “If Kaito out of all people can have a happy ending, why can't Ichiban have one too, considering that he has shit thrown at him in all sorts of angles?”
Ichiban had a happy ending, what do you mean? What, he got beat up for someone else and you think that makes his ending bad or unfortunate? He saved everyone he cared about and got a step closer to actually handling a relationship. His ending in this game wasn't as happy as Kaito's but to say it's him 'getting shit thrown at him' is kind of ridiculous. I really don't think you understand any of it if you think this is about "uplifting vs. downgrading characters", my guy. There's nothing lazy about prioritizing character writing between games.
This is what bothered me the most after finishing Infinite Wealth like they really did Saeko dirty there and she's my favorite in 7 then 8 happened and now Chitose is my top favorite alongside Seonhee and Tomizawa. Its like what the hell happened to the lovely Saeko from 7 to become what she was in 8 like ghosting Ichiban for a year just because of a proposal went too far but she has known Ichiban much longer than the CEO customer of her club. Imagine being with Ichiban fighting the likes of the Liumang, Mabuchi to the Omi with Ishioda, Sawashiro and Tendo just to get to Masato to act shitty and treated Ichiban as if he's just another customer of her club. Reminds me of how Saeko brought up Chitose to Kiryu and Ichiban's moment with Chitose at the beach where she teased Ichiban that he sounded like he's going to propose and she tried to cheer him up after getting depressed about the proposal. Gotta love that complete bond bingo photo of Chitose there with the final walk & talk moment.
@@TovarishTony maybe I am misremembering but I don't think Saeko even once took that CEO guy seriously. I wouldn't even say that they were "dating". He was just a customer that tried to take things to another level but I don't really think Saeko was serious about him for even a moment. It also shows in her final bonding quest that she absolutely dumped that CEO without a second thought when as for ichiban she was just pissed but it wasn't even close to the same level. Sure her development was still bad in y8 but if anything her bond questline was good and gave her good development.
@@kd_92Yeah the CEO bothered her enough that ended up telling Kiryu in the process besides how she's caring on Kiryu's welfare. Bringing up Chitose in the drink link really triggered her is funny. Despite the terrible development for Saeko in 8, atleast she got her Four Shine moment.
@@kd_92 like i mean same type of writing flaws but to a lesser extent. Both games try to force emotional moments out of kiryu and ichi and challenge them but most of the time it falls flat. In y4 kiryu feels to wise and too perfect, the only real struggle i connected with is daido. I think ichi suffers from those flaws but nowhere near as bad as in y4. He had way more emotional moments but the game never flat out challenges his world view expect for the chapter 9 eiji moment but that doesn't really involve into an arc imo. It feels like its building towards a y2 kiryu smoking type moment but they don't, rest of the game doesn't have any situations where ichi fucks up. Unlike kiryu in this game key example being just everyday going on with the jimas. I still enjoy ichi in this game way more than kiryu since the getting a second chance stuff hits hard for me, plus his feelings towards akane is fun and like y0 this game gives ichi his depth through his relations to other rather than the man himself. Like tomi and chitose. Still i wish the game went harder on ichi trusting eiji being a flaw
Forgot to mention a good example of ichi going through shit and fucking up in y7 is where he went way to far on thar guy and kiryu brought him back to reality
2:16:06 more ruthless??!? We had to fight him multiple times, and we saw that his member literally skewered a random dude 😭😭😭 i’d call that pretty ruthless
Havent watched your stuff in 2 weeks. (Mainly cause I am not into Ace Attorney just yet). Tuning in though cause I find your Yakuza passions like comfort food. I personally would love you to see you stream Persona but this could be copium cause I tried Persona 3 Reload, finished it and loved it, and was my first ever Persona game, was surprised how much I loved it. I am going through Persona 4 but knowing how these are 2 or 3× longer than Yakuza games, yeah I am doing try not to get burned out challenge so now I am chilling watching you do this as I read this sick manga called Berserk in hardcover. Man soo good so far.
The tier list was straight fire. Being a longtime yakuza fan though i do disagree with the localization thing. In NO WAY is it worse than NG+ being paid but that doesn't mean deliberate censorship isn't any less of an issue. It's not as bad right now but it's a slippery slope. One day it will be and we'll look back with regret. Keep it up though man!
When I ended up having Chi-chan as part of the main team even in premium adventure and Big Swell besides the inheritance system where I can just give her miraculous voice from idol. I had so much fun abusing Seonhee's stentorian whip ever since I get to Ijincho as Kiryu to the point that I ended up being around 10 levels higher than Ichiban on my first playthrough and has became a mainstay since then its like the new Divine Shot on the first turn. Having Saeko as idol just for old times sake from 7 but I might use Nanba over Saeko instead on Legend while Chitose is much more flexible which is why she and Seonhee being in my Big Swell lineup(Mine was Ichi, Chi-chan, Seonhee and Kiryu).
I grinded sujimancer to max (both in terms of job levels and the legendary sujimon) and i just found it really dull to use after a while. Sleep's not a great condition compared to fear or charm bc it breaks when the enemy's attacked, and i dislike how the instaheal is the only one in the game that doesn’t heal the user. If the other elemental attacks could apply status ailments i'd rate it a lot higher
Nanba is definitely the most improved character in this game, I was actually super surprised about how much I came to like him
100% agree. And I actually 100% agree with the story-wise list too. I really did not like what they did to Saeko, it is the same shit that they pulled with Hoshino in Lost Judgment (downgrading certain characters to uplift others in a copout manner). The worst part is that I worry that RGG will sweep the whole love affair under the rug, returning to Nagoshi's bad tendencies of not having coherent sequels that flow from one game to another. They would have to find the say to sail that ship away from the iceberg, which sounds harsh, but they kinda have to since they did the oopsie themselves.
@@shadowmamba95 I didn’t care much about Saeko in 7 so it didn’t really bother me. But yeah I hope they don’t like not mention Ichi and Saeko at all in 9 because that’s definitely something that would happen in the old games
@@shadowmamba95 Considering nagoshi is neither at RGG anymore nor has he been the main writer ever, I find that a little hard to believe. They already sailed that ship in the ending of this game so they have no reason to pretend it didn't happen.
Creator of the Job tierlist here, thank you so much for using it! I've actually been thinking about making a tierlist of every single substory in the series too, if that's something else you're interested in
Tier list of every sujimon 💀
Tier list of every dondoko island prop
@@nni2769Toilet S tier
Thank you for making the list! I've been asked multiple times either as a joke or for real, to make a substory tier list which I always am afraid of because there must be like a thousand of them now. If you do actually go for it and make it, I might just do it. I don't know how, but I will. Maybe multi part stream?
zhao being the lowest gameplay wise is INSANE. only real problem is the lack of a grapple, but you can supplement that with an inheritance slot. his damage output is bonkers, especially once you get his best weapon, which ignores all resistances. pair that with some attack buff skills, and he does like 4k dmg per turn. he carried so hard during the last long battle for me.
Cool story, but I subbed him out the moment he came in, so there's that.
Yeah Zhao, other than being my favorite member of Ichiban's crew(other than Ichiban himself), is always in my party even if he joins late because he's like you said, a really good DPS + he has good support skills like the Dim Sum abilities and add in skill inheritance and he can cover a far better range than how he was in 7. I always had it Kiryu, Nanba, Seonhee and Zhao once he joined. Not that Saeko is bad by any means, just that one had to sit out. 🤷♂️
All the party members are very much viable like I said in the vid, it's just that he has less variety compared to other party members, at least when it comes to his default job skills.
@devilleon7 Yeah I just figured out that you didn't include skill inheritance cause that would cover most of, if not all of the flaws each character has when it comes to their default class. I do agree that the lack of a grapple and mostly blunt and blade moves lacks variety/utility. It kind of makes up for it in damage/debuffing utility imo but I feel his dim sum abilities are kind of underrated because yes, healing over time is not as great as instant heal but I feel it would be too OP if it was because you add in the status ailment resistance to an instant heal(or if they wanted to make it really OP, an instant heal with removing status ailments) and it would help bump up his rank a bit. But yes I miss his Beast Kiwami move as well and sad that his ladder one got nerfed a bit. Also for me personally, Zhao usually got a turn in before Nanba on my playthrough so I either think he's on par or just above Nanba when it comes to agility cause the other 3 always got turns in before he did.
I've been building him towards blades damage, during the Big Swell S3 boss fight, I got him to do a massive 15k damage to one of the bosses. Needless to say, he's insane
They gave Adachi his own Peerless Resolve which I don't believe he had in 7. Adachi with Linebacker job is amazing.
Yes he had. And it was the same name too. It's non-inheritable, though. So that's maybe why you forgot about it.
@@herusetiawan5399 My bad then. The Detective job was so subpar in 7 that I barely gave it any thoughts. It wasn't worth keeping him in the job when Enforcer did pretty much everything better for him. The Inheritance mechanic really changed the game.
Imagine Sawashiro and Ichiban being together in the next game
Do you know what id love to see this i was hoping that Awakara was goint to be a party member in 8 when i first played 7 for obvious reasons that idea went out the window but i just thought it would have been a cool dynamic to have a characters father figure be not only still around but also very present in there life.
Wouldn't be a bad idea at all. Sawashiro is a pretty ambiguous character, you don't really know where you have him.
@@franciscor390 kinda redeemed after 8
@@gazover_ Somewhat.
I'll put Zhao higher in battle capability since he has the Dumpling that gives your party health regen with status resist. Really helps when I was fighting Amons at the end of Yokohama haunt.
I'd say Tomi's Cabbie class akin to a Red Mage to Nanba's Black Mage
I was under the impression from my first play through that Zhao was crazy good, was surprised to see him so low.
He is! He just has less tools compared to the others imo.
Only just began watching the VOD, I have a funny story to share about Knockout Combo and the Yokohama Dungeon final boss. (Spoilers for those who haven't beaten it)
.
.
So you know how one of the Amons uses Fight Night buff (I think it's Jiro Amon) and gives everyone a level 3 attack buff? I had been debuffing all of them throughout the fight AND had Relentless Dragon's Dance up for Ichiban. Took my shot at Jo Amon, lined up that Knockout Combo and took off 40% of his HP at level 57, only two above the Amons.
That was it for dear old Jo. He never stood a chance lmao. Love this game's combat so, so much.
Damn, now that you mention it, I do realize that Joon-gi had a bit more to do with the plot overall than Zhao despite being the last one to join. Zhao's literally just being a bro(which all of them are tbh) and tagging along.
Shoutout to the blessed leviathan for being the vore boss of the yakuza series that they didn't have to make and yet they did.
I am kinda 50/50 on him honestly yeah it's a cool fight but the acid hurting you every turn without you being able to do anything against it fucking sucks.
Adachi really is the bro I had a newfound appreciation for him and Nanba in this game when they came in clutch in Hawaii. Didn’t quite feel the same attachment to them in 7
Things I've found in this game is Zhao's heal is actually pretty good iirc it helps protect against status ailments and prevention is always better than cure as they say. Aquanaut was alright but does fall off mid to late game once you get the elec skill, Tomizawa is such a goat though no matter his class.
In terms of the story, yeah I do not know why they try to destroy Saeko's character like that. It is the exact same thing they did with Hoshino in Lost Judgment and it pisses me off because RGG is trying to uplift other characters like Chitose, Shirosaki, Seonhee, etc. But they take the lazy route by downgrading other characters, which is just a copout that nobody asked.
As for Saeko herself, I think Ichiban and Saeko being in a relationship would work, but RGG executed it so poorly that I worry that they will try to walk it back as if that did not happen (I like to call this the Nagoshi character curse, you can thank SnowiestAngeman for that one).
Also, I have something to ask to RGG, “If Kaito out of all people can have a happy ending, why can't Ichiban have one too, considering that he has shit thrown at him in all sorts of angles?”
Ichiban had a happy ending, what do you mean? What, he got beat up for someone else and you think that makes his ending bad or unfortunate? He saved everyone he cared about and got a step closer to actually handling a relationship. His ending in this game wasn't as happy as Kaito's but to say it's him 'getting shit thrown at him' is kind of ridiculous.
I really don't think you understand any of it if you think this is about "uplifting vs. downgrading characters", my guy. There's nothing lazy about prioritizing character writing between games.
This is what bothered me the most after finishing Infinite Wealth like they really did Saeko dirty there and she's my favorite in 7 then 8 happened and now Chitose is my top favorite alongside Seonhee and Tomizawa. Its like what the hell happened to the lovely Saeko from 7 to become what she was in 8 like ghosting Ichiban for a year just because of a proposal went too far but she has known Ichiban much longer than the CEO customer of her club. Imagine being with Ichiban fighting the likes of the Liumang, Mabuchi to the Omi with Ishioda, Sawashiro and Tendo just to get to Masato to act shitty and treated Ichiban as if he's just another customer of her club.
Reminds me of how Saeko brought up Chitose to Kiryu and Ichiban's moment with Chitose at the beach where she teased Ichiban that he sounded like he's going to propose and she tried to cheer him up after getting depressed about the proposal. Gotta love that complete bond bingo photo of Chitose there with the final walk & talk moment.
@@TovarishTony You really forgot how saeko acts in 7, huh?
@@TovarishTony maybe I am misremembering but I don't think Saeko even once took that CEO guy seriously. I wouldn't even say that they were "dating". He was just a customer that tried to take things to another level but I don't really think Saeko was serious about him for even a moment. It also shows in her final bonding quest that she absolutely dumped that CEO without a second thought when as for ichiban she was just pissed but it wasn't even close to the same level. Sure her development was still bad in y8 but if anything her bond questline was good and gave her good development.
@@kd_92Yeah the CEO bothered her enough that ended up telling Kiryu in the process besides how she's caring on Kiryu's welfare. Bringing up Chitose in the drink link really triggered her is funny. Despite the terrible development for Saeko in 8, atleast she got her Four Shine moment.
Ichiban in this game kinda feels like kiryu in yakuza 4
how so?
Hm? Got me curious. I am also not big fan of ichibans' story in y8 but to put him in kiryu y4 tier? Care to elaborate?
@@kd_92 like i mean same type of writing flaws but to a lesser extent. Both games try to force emotional moments out of kiryu and ichi and challenge them but most of the time it falls flat. In y4 kiryu feels to wise and too perfect, the only real struggle i connected with is daido. I think ichi suffers from those flaws but nowhere near as bad as in y4. He had way more emotional moments but the game never flat out challenges his world view expect for the chapter 9 eiji moment but that doesn't really involve into an arc imo. It feels like its building towards a y2 kiryu smoking type moment but they don't, rest of the game doesn't have any situations where ichi fucks up. Unlike kiryu in this game key example being just everyday going on with the jimas. I still enjoy ichi in this game way more than kiryu since the getting a second chance stuff hits hard for me, plus his feelings towards akane is fun and like y0 this game gives ichi his depth through his relations to other rather than the man himself. Like tomi and chitose. Still i wish the game went harder on ichi trusting eiji being a flaw
Forgot to mention a good example of ichi going through shit and fucking up in y7 is where he went way to far on thar guy and kiryu brought him back to reality
kuwoman
2:16:06 more ruthless??!? We had to fight him multiple times, and we saw that his member literally skewered a random dude 😭😭😭 i’d call that pretty ruthless
Havent watched your stuff in 2 weeks. (Mainly cause I am not into Ace Attorney just yet). Tuning in though cause I find your Yakuza passions like comfort food. I personally would love you to see you stream Persona but this could be copium cause I tried Persona 3 Reload, finished it and loved it, and was my first ever Persona game, was surprised how much I loved it. I am going through Persona 4 but knowing how these are 2 or 3× longer than Yakuza games, yeah I am doing try not to get burned out challenge so now I am chilling watching you do this as I read this sick manga called Berserk in hardcover. Man soo good so far.
The tier list was straight fire. Being a longtime yakuza fan though i do disagree with the localization thing. In NO WAY is it worse than NG+ being paid but that doesn't mean deliberate censorship isn't any less of an issue.
It's not as bad right now but it's a slippery slope. One day it will be and we'll look back with regret. Keep it up though man!
Agreed with this tierlist. Tomi and Seonhee is sooo broken.
Love watching these videos, my only nitpick being sometimes I feel you're being too kind or not critical enough
When I ended up having Chi-chan as part of the main team even in premium adventure and Big Swell besides the inheritance system where I can just give her miraculous voice from idol. I had so much fun abusing Seonhee's stentorian whip ever since I get to Ijincho as Kiryu to the point that I ended up being around 10 levels higher than Ichiban on my first playthrough and has became a mainstay since then its like the new Divine Shot on the first turn.
Having Saeko as idol just for old times sake from 7 but I might use Nanba over Saeko instead on Legend while Chitose is much more flexible which is why she and Seonhee being in my Big Swell lineup(Mine was Ichi, Chi-chan, Seonhee and Kiryu).
Most people probably had icchi the 2 good girls and kiryu
Cool Tier list
Leon, talk about Yakusa V.
It's V. It's a comment for the algorithms.
Night queen with best weapon is op
is cabbie really that good
Not good, but very versatile
I grinded sujimancer to max (both in terms of job levels and the legendary sujimon) and i just found it really dull to use after a while. Sleep's not a great condition compared to fear or charm bc it breaks when the enemy's attacked, and i dislike how the instaheal is the only one in the game that doesn’t heal the user. If the other elemental attacks could apply status ailments i'd rate it a lot higher