Where it all started!!! Look how far you’ve come John. You are such a hard worker and it shows how much blood sweat and tears you’ve put into this. Don’t ever sell yourself short. You are amazing
@@Spawn303 CHRIST would call him luke warm knowing all the lies and cover ups with the LDS cult and justify staying. To say you can't find a church less flawed than this stone seers fairytales is not true. Church is for gathering in corporate worship period. It was never a all controlling institution hell bent on mind control and flessing the congregation of 10% of their gross income before taxes. People are living pay check to paycheck but 200 billion isn't enough for the 12 + 1 getting there 10%.
+M Jones Yes, you are right! Many high-ranking and "ordinary" ex-Mormons are now online, explaining (often in detail) what they found out eventually and exactly why they left the LDS church. No matter how vehemently the Mormon church tells its members not to go on the internet, I doubt many will obey! Best wishes to you.
+Kiana Gardner ... Though you might say that as a joke, Mormons get real butt hurt about the facts of the Churches very problematic history. Often RUclips Mormons make personal attacks ad hominem, or .... they claim to have done a smack down on the YT commenters who challenge their LDS fundamental beliefs.... to the avail of an imagined victory in their megalomaniacal heads. But with no success whatsoever to reconvert those of us who have awakened to knowing the church to be a fraud.
Well John, I must say I really like your presentation. I left the LDS church several years ago but I get the gist as to why you choose to stay in the church despite the fact that its not true. I'm a born again Christian and I'm much happier now. You've talked about all the issues that I struggled with (and then some) and its good to see that you are able to reach out to disaffected Mormons. Trust me, not many devout Mormons can do this. You jus keep up the good work. God Bless you.
Are you kidding yourself John, you should get it, but you don't. That you got exed and should have left, too with blaring evidence against mormonism, shame on you.
Learning about this stuff can be one of the most world-shattering things a Mormon will ever experience. Your prescription for love, acceptance, and validation meant the world to me when I first watched it a few years ago, and it means the world to me now.
I second that! I was LDS for a few years, then I left the church and never went back. I enjoy this video since the presenter cited all the prob me and many others stuggled with : Joe Smiths polygamy, treasure seeking, masonry, Book of Mormon/Abraham probs, treatment of women, blacks and church dissenters, major inconsistancies and much more. (sigh). Anyway, leaving the LDS was a fresh breath of air for me. It was a tough choice but hey... i'm out and could'nt be happier!
As a hardboiled atheist i heard through your video completely and i must say from the depth of my heart i am deeply touched for at least once hearing somebody represent all the things that i guess religion wants to achieve. If this attitude towards loving and supporting each other is the outcome it does not matter what you believe or how hilarious it may sound at times i guess. It is the fact that you believe in good that binds those who do togeter no matter what (a)theist.
I agree. Do the right things first and the theology will follow. A just deity/bhudda or universe would not complain or discriminate if that's done right.
There is no such think as an atheist with naturalist explanation for everything that exist without blind faith. Rule of logic and causality has no rule for nothingness to create everything. In the beginning there needs to be an eternal E to equal Mass x the speed of light squared. HE also needs to operated outside space\time. I'm not buying dark energy or mater with all the atributes of a GOD holding the universe together. Your god is named dark my god is what HE is named Alpha and Omega and caused everthing, holds it together before science knew some one needed to do the job.
This talk has shown me how kind you are as a person. Thankyou for that. These descriptions have indeed been my experience. This church has touted itself as being true and right authority, demanding my respect in every aspect, especially the priesthood. Then I am told yes we do make mistakes. Not good enough. You want my total allegiance, but it doesn't go both ways. It doesn't even measure up historically, and those missionaries unwittingly lied to me on so many things.(translation of the plates, first vision, book of mormon, general authorities, priesthood. etc etc) I am in grief for the 40 years I was in the church. I want nothing to do with churches any more. I talk to God the Source, myself. Also through Yesua. I don't need any more of the chicanery that any of the churches offer.
Thank you for this one! A lucid explanation of why the Church is having such retention problems. My brother left the Church pretty much along these same lines over a decade ago, and I almost followed him out... Thanks so much for explaining all this stuff.
Just finished watching this. As someone who has left the church, I am grateful for your understanding. I personally don't hold any animosity toward anyone still in the church. Thank you so much for this video.
Wonderful discussion. Thank you for having a BRAIN about this, and having COMPASSION. For some reason it feels like those two things are mutually exclusive when it comes to these kinds of issues. I suspect a lot of highly intelligent folks leave the church for exactly the reasons you describe, and out of a spirit of genuinely wanting to do right by their conscience and by God and get treated like "sinner" or "apostates" for not blindly continuing on in the face of the contridictions you bring up
I'm an active Catholic and for years I have heard the same stories you tell here, but from ex mormons who came to the Catholic church in search for answers, some were in deep depression over what they found out and the fact they they were kicked out from the Mormon church and were spiritually homeless, I'm glad that you show true humanity towards people, you behave in a more Christ like way than some of my fellow Catholics and that I admire, may god bless you.
you did a perfect description of why people like me left the church, but I wish the leaders would have your perspective, which I know for sure they don't..
I think Mormons enjoy a high degree of societal cohesion, which must be very comforting for some many. It might be worth turning a blind eye to discrepancies in order to preserve that comfort. A lot of us do that within our own belief systems. I appreciate that they open their doors to people doing family research. It is a wonderful public service.
Ive found that since I left the church devasted.. not one mormon family member, friend, or any other member of the church has asked me why. I have always wondered if I would have never asked had I'd been in thier shoes as well.
John saying that ex-mormons feel hurt, betrayed and then abandoned by their mormon friends as if the ex-mormon has leprosy?........Absolutely true. (Turning your backs on apostates used to be a part of the gospel.)
THANK YOU! You are the first Mormon that I've heard that gets it!!! I have been shunned by my family because I learned all this stuff about the church and in no way could remain a member. It is not a fun trip to have your family shun you but I feel like I had no choice if I was going to be honest with myself. I have to live with myself and I can't and/or won't compromise my integrity even if I have to get "beat up" emotionally over it. Isn't Christianity all about loving others?
This stuff turned my life upside down. A lifelong doubter but ultimately a believer who lived in guilt of my sin, to now I’m atheist. The church admitted treasurer hunting of JS was the beginning of the end for me. I cannot believe in anything supernatural. Today or in the past. Ever. All religion is folk lore. I’ve never thought that until now. At 40 years old. Now I live in truth. Guilt free.
:( I don't know how to feel right now. I've never heard any of these claims but the Lord lead me here so I know that I was supposed to see this. My whole life has been changed and I feel so alone. Pray for me please
I hope our Lord Yeshuah blessed you through your seeking. He did with us and even in leaving the church, He held our hand throughout. May He bless you throughout. Prayers!
Sallianne Hansen I am praying for you ❤️ yes, the Lord led you here to bring you to truth. Please, read your bible and get to know Christ the Lord and Savior Himself and Him crucified. Through reading and studying Gods Word, the Bible, you will come to know the truth, and He will set you free from all the deception. If you want to message me, please feel free.
Bless your heart for bringing up this subject! I was full of sadness and anger for decades. My family treated me very badly when I officially removed my name from the church rolls 42 years after discovering (on my own) that the doctrine was full of holes and twisted facts. I felt forced to go to church and continue playing the game, but I finally had to stand for the TRUTH before my grandchild turned 8 years old. The association was affecting my DNA. I stand for truth and question everything!
I just want to say that The Lord put this video today for me. I am so happy and free now. Thank you so much for making this so clear. I love the church and I rather to be there than not bring there. But I also want to live in the real truth. I don't want to sugar code this and allow anyone to wash my brain. I love when you said that we have been through that every thing is black or white. Love this day! Definitely a crucial in my life.❤️
I've been a member for 8 months, left it a few weeks ago and I still feel it was the right thing to do. There are so many things that are emberassing, heck even ridiculous quotes from current and past GAs and prophets. If I can't say without shame that I support all church standpoints, then I don't want to be part of it
They ask you to take an oath to a Freemason cult with same tokens, symbolism, aprons and "the power of Lucifer's priesthood". You refused because they don't mention the satan freemason rituals they say is for your salvation.
I am glad you brought these things to light, it is important as Christians to hold our church accountable to the truth and bring darkness to light. Always go back to the Bible which has remained unchanged and pure and use it as the measure and guide for every teaching. Remember we the believers are the body of Christ, temples of the spirit of God and in so much we have authority and a voice.
errrrmmm, the Bible has remained "unchanged and pure"? how do you figure such a ridiculous statement? why don't you ask the Jewish people how the Bible has remained "unchanged and pure"?
The Jewish people are the ones who kept the old testament that way...they have such a rigorous way for maintaining it never changes that they burn it if so much as a jot or tiddle is out of place...the dead sea scrolls shows us that at the very least its been the same for the last 2000 years. The new testament has had so many copies of each of the books therein that we know it to be true as well. Discoveries of early papyri manuscripts (the Jhon Ryland manuscrpt 130 AD the Chester Beatty Papyri AD 155, and the Bodmer Papyri II AD200) shows the new testament has gone unchanged as well. Over 20,000 ancient copies of the new testament have been found, the only comparable ancient document is the Iliad which has 643 identical ancient copies. Historically no one questions that Homer wrote the Iliad because of this...logically how much more can we trust the new testament manuscripts to be accurate to the original writings of the first apostles. Also check out Ivan Penin and the Bible code which is mathematical evidence for the authenticity of the new and old testament.
Thank you for helping those LDS who do not understand what I have been feeling for the past 2 years. I dedicated almost 40 years of my life to the LDS Church, but have since left because of what I now know about the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. I could no longer "sustain" any prophet of the LDS Church knowing that it was founded on deception by it founder. Beginning with his first vision account and the many changes through the years. Thank you for understanding me. :)
18:00 Correction: "The same peep stone he used to find treasure with" Ooops, what you should have said was "The same peep stone he claimed to be able to find treasure with but never did which was why he was sued and lost in court over it." He never actually found "treasure" with his peep stone.
charged with black magic and glass looking, even heavily criticized by famous american authors such as mark twain, and i believe even benjamin franklin criticized the practice of glass looking and treasure digging to rip people off, as it was apparently so widespread that it was bankrupting people to the point that people like JS were brought before the courts. He even came clean to his wife’s father after making off with her and eloping after her father said “absolutely not”. He tearfully admitted to his forgeries and said he would work as a farmer. Didn’t happen the first time when his family had farm land. And never happened afterwards. His mother’s influence, especially with black magic and the occult and animal blood sacrifices, drove the family to join the new religion creating movement, of which their town was especially famous for.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here. The only objection I have is with encouraging struggling members to shift their focus from what's "true" to what's "good." Eternal destinies are at stake and if the salvation doctrine of the Church is wrong, that is an insurmountable problem. What good does it do to look for what's good and focus on serving in the Church if one's understanding of how we get to heaven is still completely off? Additionally, if someone in the Church does come to understand and accept biblical salvation, why would they want to stay in a church that tries to keep them in bondage?
At 44:50, John says "Bad apologetics can injure more testimonies than anti-Mormon literature." So true! I am Mormon, and I can't stand FAIR. They make me ashamed to be a Mormon more often than not.
Enjoy listening how you present the Mormon how it is the truth in it I’m inactive Mormon some of my family are still active I agree to still love them family and friends understanding is a blessing
@@beniebee7229 Hey bro! Have you ever read the new testament of the Holy Bible? Black people weren't allowed the Melchizedek priesthood until 1978 in the Mormon church. The true Jesus Christ nailed your sins to His cross thousands of years ago. He immediately inspired His apostles with tongues (read Acts), to preach to the entire world. I can't imagine what it feels like as a black person finding this out, especially when you've probably been shown a ton of love from your family and church community on one end.
Just seeing this first podcast - 14 years later. Today - 9-22-2022 after 4 years of inactivity in mainstream Mormonism, I submitted my official letter of resignation to the membership dept by email and certified mail, and mail to branch and stake - moved here 3 years ago and never attended. Will hand deliver a copy to branch president on Sunday morning. Done!!!
The "sinners" reason is especially offensive for multiple reasons. For starters, we are all sinners according to the church doctrine. Secondly, just being active in the church proves nothing about your worthiness. Many people that are active in the church and believed to be "good" people have the biggest skeletons in their closet. Like the "most spiritual" and "insightful" teacher in my childhood ward that got caught molesting his kids for years. "Sinning" should not even be part of the discussion when someone leaves the church.
I appreciate the suggestion "forget true....consider good." After learning some of the history and facts described in this presentation the Church stories quit working for me and I left the Church. I now use other sources to help me be a good human being. However, for my parents, some family members, and friends the Church stories work well at helping them be good people. I don't consider the Church true but I can see that it can do good, maybe even for myself again one day.
It would be great if we could love each other without being conned with "one truth", coerced with "hell", indoctrinated by parents etc. Humanity, it appears, is not mature enough... yet.
Don't help them, please, let them free ! I was a member for 45 year, was born in the church, never questionned it, I was too conditionned after years of primary, young women, seminary and so forth, to think by and for myself to see the deception of it all. No, I left the church because I trained in EFL (Equine Facilited Learning), coaching with horses. In order to be in synch with the horses, which live, like all living things apart humans, in the present moment, I had to practice full awareness meditation. Awareness... that's the key word ! Mormon are so deeply immersed in doctrines, rituals and beliefs, kept so busy with church reunions and church related activities, they have lost their awareness, their ability to think, to analyse rationnaly. I suddenly saw things as they are, and i'm telling you, it's not a pretty sight when you see religions from the outside with your eyes open. Not a pretty sight at all..... Once awake, I ran away from it, litteraly.
I have to disagree with your third disclaimer. Lying "prophets" does mean that the church is false. If a prophet speaks one wrong word, he is not from God.
I love this video! I left the church almost 7 years ago. Watching this finally helped me let go of all my anger and resentment toward the church and those I love that I affected when I left. John has helped me realize that the way I acted and the way they acted was purely natural and based on emotions. If I would have seen this video while I was going through my crisis of faith, I might have stayed.
I must admit that I am wondering about myself at this point. Wasting each others time on something that will never change. You know you are right and I think I am right. Good day.
the polar opposite of mormon writings. It was like a light switch had been turned on! Everything fell into place, and previously held beliefs fell like dominoes. I felt a HUGE burden had been lifted from my shoulders, peace like I had never known flowed through me. I felt the overwhelming love and acceptance of God. I knew then that no matter what I did wrong He would not love me less, and no matter what I did right He would not love me more. It was no longer about me, it was about Jesus Christ.
Great video. Indeed, you can be a Mormon on your own terms and consider the Church as sort of social club dedicated to charity and self-perfection (and I sympathetize with that point of view), but reject all the things that do not make sense that go with it - that would include Joseph Smith being a prophet, the Book of Mormon, temples, baptisms for dead etc. I'm not sure if this approach makes sense though. What would be the point of tithing, if you know that most of it will be spent on nonsense like building temples and printing BoM? Wouldn't it make more sense to spend the money on something that is actually helpful to people like food, clothes, housing and education?
Justin Snyder I believe I did my research with an honest heart, and I'm sorry that results of my research do not agree with your beliefs. For instance, you can quickly google "wives of joseph smith" to learn more about his life and to see that what he did actually contradicted what he preached (and I mean not just polygamy, but the fact that he married women who were already married at the time with living husbands). I don't intend to change your beliefs (because if they help you in your life, then great and good for you), but rather I want to explain why I think this way.
Justin Snyder So is Todd M. Compton, Mormon historian and author of "In Sacred Loneliness", is just someone who posts stuff on internet? Is FamilySearch just some random organisation not related to LDS church? These are just a couple examples of the sources from which the information was drawn. www.mrm.org/joseph-smith-and-polygamy
Justin Snyder Wow, what an angry reaction. How am I lying exactly? I only said what information I found and explained what were the sources. I'm sorry that you are unable to keep this discussion civil.
Justin Snyder I don't see any truth in what you're saying. What you do is aggressively yelling at me and demanding me to shut up. If that's the Mormon truth, thank you, I'll pass.
A lot of what you had to say was very insightful and helpful. The BIGGEST challenge for ANYONE, including yourself is to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. I've sat through numerous unmeasurable amounts of redundant topics and lessons in the mormon church, where most imperfect people just aren't getting it! How many times does one have to sit and hear the same advice over and over again before people actually go out and put action to their words and not just hear what needs to be said?
"As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason. Delusion becomes a choice." Jim Whitefield
I would simply remind you that everyone one I know who has left the church including myself spent a long time considering your "things for them to consider". I know of no one who leaves the church lightly. Second, FARMS is not the best example of a intellectual role model for the doubter. I know several BYU students looking to FARMS for answers and assistant only to be left with more questions and placement on the "Strengthening of Members" watch-list with the threat of no diploma.
I absolutely loved this video! I’m striving to do my best to stay in the church after going through a faith crisis myself. Thanks for the work you do John
This guy John has left the church. His mormon stories web site is great. In the age of information, Ignorance is a choice. For starters, The B of Mormon has been changed so many times it's not even the same book JSmith wrote. By the way, JS plagiarized the King James bible amount other books of his time. What a con man.
Man,this guy really hits the nail on the head. Finally some REAL truth about the LDS church from a member. I can honestly say from my own experience that many of the things this guy mentions were NOT taught in church when i was a member. Every week was the same thing over and over- the church is true/perfect, Hinkley/Monson- living prophets, scriptures are here to guide us and the list goes on...( sigh). Anyway, im not against the LDS church or anything but jus more christ centered.
I would love to see you walk through the Church Essays. Some crazy things are in there such as Joseph Smith being threatened by an angel with a sword if he didn't practice polygamy. All on the church's website.
Wow! I'm impressed that your love for the church was so great that you could (1) teach early morning seminar and (2) not have lost your faith, even though you had this knowledge. It gives me empathy for other people who know a lot of objective truth and stay in. When you say you are not out to make people leave the church, you really mean it, even now. I'm curious: I just recently subscribed, so I don't know your history. How long was it after this podcast that the church wanted you out? Thanks.
I suspect that the only Mormons who now defend the faith vehemently are those on the inside, i.e. the top brass to to speak (the "apostles" and upper management) who have deeply vested personal interests, plus members who are not fully aware of the actual teachings and doctrines of the LDS organization. For example, do members know about Kolob? Or that Joseph Smith claimed the moon was inhabited; or that Brigham Young claimed the SUN was inhabited? Are they familiar with the teaching that God was once a MAN and through his behavior became God? Do they know the LDS doctrine that after death, men become founders of new universes, become Gods (gods?) themselves? Do they realize the extent to which temple rituals are based on Freemasonry? Do they know the history of Joseph Smith in detail, for example that he was deeply into the occult? Have they researched the "Book of Abraham"? (an egregious fraud, easily exposed by Egyptologists) Are they aware of the astounding similarities between the "Book of Mormon" and other books written before the BoM, relating a supposed Jewish ancestry to native Americans? And do they know that DNA analysis has proven that the American Indians' ancestors were NOT Jews, but Asians? I have no doubt that with the increasing availability of information, through the Internet, there will be a rapidly accelerating fall-off in the Mormon church --- and their missionaries will experience more and more resistance in their visitations. When my spouse and I were approached many years ago, the story of the "translation" of the "Book of Mormon" was that Joseph Smith used a "urim" and a "thumin" formed into spectacles to read the plates, but that's been changed, and now the LDS organization avers that Smith put a seer stone in his hat, stuck his head in his hat to keep light out, and DICTATED the "Book of Mormon" without looking at the metal plates! Blessings!
I love my church , I love the people in it I dont give a damn about the stuff you just recited true or not they are accepting and loving and that was what Christ was all about
The apologists actually make things worse. They are so desperate to prove something true that they rush to make an argument without considering all of the facts. Often their arguments change over time. For example, follow all the apologist arguments over the Book of Abraham since the early 1900's to today. Those arguments have changed dramatically. And the new arguments today are so desperate, that they are unbelievable within minutes of reading/listening. The best thing an unauthorized apologist could do to help the Church, is to stop.
Anyone who leaves the church and feels injured, please read the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, it has nothing to do with Mormonism, but it may explain why you feel injured and how you can overcome that injury. And everyone else, read the book because it is great life wisdom.
+kirkland meadows Many would leave because they have looked deeper into the church and what it teaches and found that it is "NOT" ok and NOT perfect, and NOT ordained by God. My wife and I moved to SLC and started to find out things and teachings that we never heard before when we lived in Calif.. When we asked questions of our Bishop here we got totally different answers then we got when we asked them from our Bishop in Calif. My wife made and posted a video of why she left here on RUclips.
If you don't believe that a church is "ordained by God" then there is no reason to stay. I do not believe that the church is ordained by God and I will not continue to go as I grow older (I'm still relatively young). If you believe that what you are doing is right and it makes you happy then more power to you!
If you do not believe the church is the "true church" then why wait till you are older. Actually the only "true church" is the one talked about in the Bible the "body of Christ" which is made up of all people who put there faith in the saving work of Jesus Christ. The LDS church teaches a different Jesus, and different gospel and a different way to be saved.
There's a reason Christ is called the King of Kings. The Church is not a democracy. Either our Prophet is Christ's mouthpiece on earth or he's not. I fully support president Monson as prophet, seer, & revelator. I fully support everyone's free agency to do according to their own will as well. I'm just saying please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
To meet the difficulties that are coming, it will be necessary for you to have a knowledge of the truth for yourselves. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess this personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got the testimony, live right and call upon the Lord and cease not till you obtain it. If you do not you will not stand ... The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within himself. If you do not have it, how can you stand? --- Harold B. Lee
I want to respond as the sister of a Mormon convert and a person who has been very angry and anti-Mormon. I highly respect this man; he clearly takes from Mormonism what I take from Christianity--guidance on how to live a Christ-like life. I don't care about rules, hell, or anything else that deters me from helping my fellow human. If you're atheist and moral, good for you! If you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish--fantastic! If you're Mormon but act in a Christian way (like this man), praise God!
I love the Gospel and it's brought me happiness and freed my mind in a way no other evidence could. I believe that the savior Jesus Christ is my personal redeemer and that no matter what type of forces try to tear that belief down, I will always know that the Lord loves and cares for me, and desires my personal salvation, and nothing but his grace is sufficient to give that to me.
First of all, I must appreciate you supporting Ron Paul. Im English and have no say in the outcome of American politics, but the owners of USA affect the whole world. I was Mormon for 16 years. Then my parents bought me a laptop and internet access for my birthday. I learnt all about the book of abraham and the papyri joseph falesy "translated".
I can't fathom how you can see the reality of the Church so clearly and still remain a member (let alone active). How do you sit in church each week listening to talks and lessons and songs that reinforce over and over again 'we KNOW, 'we TESTIFY, 'we will be missionaries and teach others these truths', knowing that it's false? How do give a priesthood blessing knowing that Joseph Smith was a liar who restored nothing, received nothing, translated nothing? There's no integrity in it.
Thanks for being the first Mormon to ever tell me that the church as not been open about its founding. Bring these issues up to most members and they will go nuts and tell you off.
And to answer your question, it does not matter which book I am left with on the deserted Island. I have read them all many times and I have them in my heart. Though I would prefer to retain them all, I could survive with any. Which would you like me to have?
I LOVE THIS!!!! This is the best presentation of why anyone should NOT be a mormon -just like you say- The fact that there are no reasonable answers to these HUGE PROBLEMS in mormonism is no where more accurately stated.
Thats why I left, when I started pointing out and asking my Bishop why we are saying verse A means such and such yet in hebrew and greek words mean something else. I did the research, asked the question, and got asked to leave the LDS church. It’s a blessing knowing I no longer have to give “pat answers” or sidestep logical questions anymore.
@TheSnoopy1750 - I was not desperate, nor gullible when I thought very clearly and argued every point and many more that were shown here, and yet with all clear thinking honest intellect, I came to the conclusion that joining the LDS church was the Right thing for me to do.
Why will the leaders not answer people's questions honestly and earnestly? Instead, I hear people are told to stop researching and blaming people saying they don't have the Holy Ghost with them. I have found that when some people leave the church they don't fall apart because they actually found Jesus and learn about God's love for them.
Anyone thinking about leaving the church, watch at least the last 7-10 minutes of the program. Interesting things to consider, while you continue to study things out on your own.
@Cheshu1 Thanks for the verse! I am a mormon and i sure do wish the Church would better address church history and use the bible more often! Thanks for your time my friend
Hi, i'm a mormon and i would like to share my story. I know that we live in such a whirlwind of tentations and sins nowadays. These days ive seen so many of these videos and idk how to feel right now. I want to believe it'd true but i want to make the right choice. This church makes me feel like im home, safe and loved. This church makes me feel happy and free but after all of this I really don't know. I don't think im old enough to make my own choices and if i talk to my parents about this i feel like they woulnt get it bc i'm at such a delicate age right now. if any of you have suggestions. Ty❤️
Hi there! I wonder where you are in your faith transition now, and how it all went with what you found out and were your parents ok about it? Rly hope you're ok! Thanks
@@weaksohyeah I advise you to tell your parents that you want to study church history ....Then present them with all the disturbing facts in this video and continue to ask them questions .....Ask for Gods help ,.....It is very wrong to believe a lie ,The bible clearly states that' '' If anyone presents you Another gospel '' .....Do not believe them or it .
Very well presented. My lineage goes way back all the way to my Great Great,Great Great (I honestly don't know how many Greats) Grandfather was John Tanner. Being born & raised in the church I was indoctrinated by so many of the false or sensationalized tales of Joseph Smith. To be taught since I was just a little kid Joseph Smith was the 2nd most virtuous man next to Jesus? He refused Alcohol as a little kid when he had painful surgery? Many of you know I could go on & on. I am so hurt and devastated not only how the church lied (and I believe not telling whole truths about our past leaders is a lie), but that I almost feel guilty for even feeling this way. I was married in the Temple and had two wonderful kids but we got divorced when they were very young. They live with their mom and they are so into church, especially my 15 year old son. How can I tell them the whole truth about the church without alienating not only them but also my relationship with their mom finally after years of getting to having a civil relationship as co-parents. How do I tell my dad these things as he is as blind as they come to the church & I would be blasphemous for even trying to show him some of these things. I still have fond memories as a youth. I did get my Eagle Scout which I'm very proud of. I didn't serve a mission but helped convert a few friends. I still believe the church Today for the most part is good. They have great teachings as far as families and service. I read some comment about how they scam people out of their money for no good. I totally disagree. They have the best welfare care for those in needs. They do have a love & genuine care for people. Unfortunately I don't think it's enough for me to ever go back and that deeply DEEPLY saddens me. I don't know about religion as a whole anymore, but I also believe that being such sniveling ass holes & judgmental ignorant rejects like many of you & your comments does no good but help keep the blanket of stupidity wrapped around your insecurities wasting your time in being disgusting and such Angry people. Don't you have better things to do like reading the bible and remembering and living the ways Jesus teaches? Seriously. I'm not talking about everyone but some of you get a freaking life & mind your own spirituality woes. Being hurt and upset is one thing, but those of you that spew judgmental & hateful words & condemnation? I'm Serious when I ask this question, What would Jesus do? Would he say some of the things a few of you self righteous people do? If you say yes, well then you aren't Christians at all. In fact you breath the very essence of evil you claim to be against. The one thing I will always respect the LDS church for is they never wasted their time trash talking any other religion or church. The only people & churches who do that both in Sunday services and even in their Youth groups are the ones who feel insecure & scared shitless wasting time bad mouthing other religions instead of focusing on the teachings of Christ. AGAIN is that what Jesus would do or would he love & be secure enough he wouldn't have to go after others with different beliefs?
Ryan, to discover lies, or feeling like you've been deceived is very hurtful, and you were a part of that, so I understand how you might feel guilty. I felt guilty leaving the Mormon church too. Think another way. You didn't leave Jesus, did you? So if you still put God and Jesus in your life, don't feel guilty about leaving A church. Also, please respect your children's views, as they have a relationship with God and Jesus; yes, even in the Mormon church. The spirit is with them, and their church too! In your comments, you defend the Mormon Church's involvement in people, and I agree with you. The Mormon Church TODAY, has become a very Godly, family oriented church, despite their origin. So, let your children stay close to the spirit. Only with your patience and love, and being a role model, they may eventually see what you see.
you are not alone ryan. the church boasts 15 mill members, however, only 9 are active, 2 on probation, and 1 in spiritual court. And the rest are slowly discovering what you have stumbled upon....the facts. I am a 5th generation mormon that to this day can not have an honest discussion with my mom because my love for her supercedes my thoughts. Yes they are great on face value...and i truly long to "shoulder to the wheel push along".... but at some point we (I) must grow spiritually alone. Hence..you are not alone.
I am blessed to be a new black convert to the LDS church,and have read several books on blacks in the church, including one written by a black member of the seventy. I grew up in the Church of Christ,but I feel good about the LDS church. One of the things I read about blacks in the church, was remember the prophet is a man, he is not Jesus, he will make mistakes, the church has made mistakes, will continue to make mistakes. I love serving others. This is excellent video,thank you compiling it.
Me and my family were born in JWs. I left 20 years ago. My gromn daughters eventually left too. My oldest daughter 29 yrs old, married a Mormon and joined 2 years ago. From what I see Mormons are happier than JWs. But I realize JWs may look happier to Mormons than themselves. I really don't know because all high control/cults look happy in public. My thing is that I don't know what she could be dealing with because she possibly can't talk openly to me just like JWs never feel right to let non JWs/Worldly people know everything less than perfect is how we showed to the World, no matter how tough life was at the time.
@lindalds Multitudes have both prayed, & using LDS source material exclusively, studied themselves out of the Mormon church into the living light & liberty of Christ, when they came to the place of thirsting more for Truth than all else & realizing that honesty is more important than loyalty. The transition is not easy, but the intimate enjoyment of the Superscendent Splendor of Jesus Christ in time & for all eternity is infinitely worth it.
pammyla66 it makes me glad! I'm a convert, I will be sharing my story publicly soon. Keep on going, there's no better system, although it is full of inpetfect people, including the general authorities, but we're all trying to learn to follow the light. It's sad that the guy that did this video had been excommunicated. He had a good understanding but got confused. Today he's not sure about an after life or that there is a God.
I came across your content from a search on RUclips music (the Ally Christiansen story) and then the Ruby Franke news. Are you still active after 15 years?
TREMENDOUS video, brother Dehlin! You may well be the man to kick-start a reformation, of sorts, within the church as it applies to the way some things are hidden; that maybe best brought into the light. While I believe you are a little off the mark on certain points, the crux of your message is very true... that we should love and support our brothers & sisters with a Christ-like love when they have doubts. If we are secure in our own testimony & faith, this shouldn't be too hard.
@Shulamitefire You have to remember when this was said, and to whom. It is NOT written about LDS vs. non-LDS, it was written about Christian vs. non-Christian.
Creed comes from the latin word credo, which means a statement of religious belief. When someone says the subscribe to a certain creed it is the same as a member of the LDS church quoting their articles of faith. Both the articles of faith and any of the orthodox Christian creeds are man made yes, but the define what they hold to be as a statement of they believe to be the most important Christian doctrines.
despite the fact that we have all experienced many different things...its sad to know how easy it is to fall...we experience life...we make choices...and we live...but to post things on here to bash on individual religion is wrong...there are many different religions with faults...but yet when a "MORMON" messes up its blown up...i am a MORMON and despite the choices i make in life...i will believe and will continue to believe that this is the only true church on the face of this earth...
This a rare, refreshingly honest variety of video regarding the Monson movement of Moroni presented by an LDS. Thanks much, John. I encourage everyone to listen to John's excellent four part interview with Grant Palmer in which Grant laments the absence of Christocentricity in the LDS faith, speaks about the Mormon church's fabrication of their history, & their misguided romanticization of Joseph Smith. Go to John's RUclips channel for the link.
This video aged well.
Where it all started!!! Look how far you’ve come John. You are such a hard worker and it shows how much blood sweat and tears you’ve put into this. Don’t ever sell yourself short. You are amazing
Working for what?
@@rickhuntling7338 Truth
@@Spawn303 CHRIST would call him luke warm knowing all the lies and cover ups with the LDS cult and justify staying. To say you can't find a church less flawed than this stone seers fairytales is not true.
Church is for gathering in corporate worship period. It was never a all controlling institution hell bent on mind control and flessing the congregation of 10% of their gross income before taxes.
People are living pay check to paycheck but 200 billion isn't enough for the 12 + 1 getting there 10%.
I think the Internet will awaken the Mormons to the truth.
+M Jones Yes, you are right! Many high-ranking and "ordinary" ex-Mormons are now online, explaining (often in detail) what they found out eventually and exactly why they left the LDS church. No matter how vehemently the Mormon church tells its members not to go on the internet, I doubt many will obey!
Best wishes to you.
They can go to hell.
+Kiana Gardner ... Though you might say that as a joke, Mormons get real butt hurt about the facts of the Churches very problematic history.
Often RUclips Mormons make personal attacks ad hominem, or .... they claim to have done a smack down on the YT commenters who challenge their LDS fundamental beliefs.... to the avail of an imagined victory in their megalomaniacal heads.
But with no success whatsoever to reconvert those of us who have awakened to knowing the church to be a fraud.
+Kiana Gardner ... If you're not joking , seek help.
cesletter.org
The day I walked out joy was restored in my life.
The path of less resistance is of course desired by many
It’s so crazy how long John has been there for us. Out stretched arm guiding us to a safe place after our long journey out of Mormonism.
I just can’t wrap my head around why he is still in the church?!
@@patriciahisoire5753 He’s not. This video is 14 years old.
Well John, I must say I really like your presentation. I left the LDS church several years ago but I get the gist as to why you choose to stay in the church despite the fact that its not true. I'm a born again Christian and I'm much happier now.
You've talked about all the issues that I struggled with (and then some) and its good to see that you are able to reach out to disaffected Mormons. Trust me, not many devout Mormons can do this. You jus keep up the good work. God Bless you.
Chris Leo. A John has now been ex'd.
Are you kidding yourself John, you should get it, but you don't. That you got exed and should have left, too with blaring evidence against mormonism, shame on you.
@@dionclark4589 but he was able to show people what the excommunication process is like.
Learning about this stuff can be one of the most world-shattering things a Mormon will ever experience. Your prescription for love, acceptance, and validation meant the world to me when I first watched it a few years ago, and it means the world to me now.
I second that! I was LDS for a few years, then I left the church and never went back. I enjoy this video since the presenter cited all the prob me and many others stuggled with : Joe Smiths polygamy, treasure seeking, masonry, Book of Mormon/Abraham probs, treatment of women, blacks and church dissenters, major inconsistancies and much more. (sigh). Anyway, leaving the LDS was a fresh breath of air for me. It was a tough choice but hey... i'm out and could'nt be happier!
As a hardboiled atheist i heard through your video completely and i must say from the depth of my heart i am deeply touched for at least once hearing somebody represent all the things that i guess religion wants to achieve. If this attitude towards loving and supporting each other is the outcome it does not matter what you believe or how hilarious it may sound at times i guess. It is the fact that you believe in good that binds those who do togeter no matter what (a)theist.
I agree. Do the right things first and the theology will follow. A just deity/bhudda or universe would not complain or discriminate if that's done right.
There is no such think as an atheist with naturalist explanation for everything that exist without blind faith. Rule of logic and causality has no rule for nothingness to create everything. In the beginning there needs to be an eternal E to equal Mass x the speed of light squared. HE also needs to operated outside space\time. I'm not buying dark energy or mater with all the atributes of a GOD holding the universe together. Your god is named dark my god is what HE is named Alpha and Omega and caused everthing, holds it together before science knew some one needed to do the job.
This talk has shown me how kind you are as a person. Thankyou for that. These descriptions have indeed been my experience. This church has touted itself as being true and right authority, demanding my respect in every aspect, especially the priesthood. Then I am told yes we do make mistakes. Not good enough. You want my total allegiance, but it doesn't go both ways. It doesn't even measure up historically, and those missionaries unwittingly lied to me on so many things.(translation of the plates, first vision, book of mormon, general authorities, priesthood. etc etc) I am in grief for the 40 years I was in the church. I want nothing to do with churches any more. I talk to God the Source, myself. Also through Yesua. I don't need any more of the chicanery that any of the churches offer.
Thank you for this one! A lucid explanation of why the Church is having such retention problems. My brother left the Church pretty much along these same lines over a decade ago, and I almost followed him out... Thanks so much for explaining all this stuff.
Why do you stay if so much is hidden from you for so long?
Just finished watching this.
As someone who has left the church, I am grateful for your understanding.
I personally don't hold any animosity toward anyone still in the church.
Thank you so much for this video.
Wonderful discussion. Thank you for having a BRAIN about this, and having COMPASSION. For some reason it feels like those two things are mutually exclusive when it comes to these kinds of issues. I suspect a lot of highly intelligent folks leave the church for exactly the reasons you describe, and out of a spirit of genuinely wanting to do right by their conscience and by God and get treated like "sinner" or "apostates" for not blindly continuing on in the face of the contridictions you bring up
I'm an active Catholic and for years I have heard the same stories you tell here, but from ex mormons who came to the Catholic church in search for answers, some were in deep depression over what they found out and the fact they they were kicked out from the Mormon church and were spiritually homeless, I'm glad that you show true humanity towards people, you behave in a more Christ like way than some of my fellow Catholics and that I admire, may god bless you.
The catholic church is also bad . Its also not of YAHUSHA.
you did a perfect description of why people like me left the church, but I wish the leaders would have your perspective, which I know for sure they don't..
I wish the leaders wouldn't slander and lie about why people leave.
I don't understand how this man can talk about all these things and still be a faithful member of the faith. The cognitive dissonance is crazy.
Word Bro! Im a black guy who recently left the church! FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!
I think Mormons enjoy a high degree of societal cohesion, which must be very comforting for some many. It might be worth turning a blind eye to discrepancies in order to preserve that comfort. A lot of us do that within our own belief systems. I appreciate that they open their doors to people doing family research. It is a wonderful public service.
Sure, Barbara. But that's pretty much the only "public service" they do, if you call opening up genealogy databases a public service
Ive found that since I left the church devasted.. not one mormon family member, friend, or any other member of the church has asked me why. I have always wondered if I would have never asked had I'd been in thier shoes as well.
Why
Brave Spice, It's been 40 years since l left , and they still don't want to talk about it. It is not your fault. Love you you.❤🌷
John saying that ex-mormons feel hurt, betrayed and then abandoned by their mormon friends as if the ex-mormon has leprosy?........Absolutely true. (Turning your backs on apostates used to be a part of the gospel.)
THANK YOU! You are the first Mormon that I've heard that gets it!!! I have been shunned by my family because I learned all this stuff about the church and in no way could remain a member. It is not a fun trip to have your family shun you but I feel like I had no choice if I was going to be honest with myself. I have to live with myself and I can't and/or won't compromise my integrity even if I have to get "beat up" emotionally over it. Isn't Christianity all about loving others?
This stuff turned my life upside down. A lifelong doubter but ultimately a believer who lived in guilt of my sin, to now I’m atheist. The church admitted treasurer hunting of JS was the beginning of the end for me. I cannot believe in anything supernatural. Today or in the past. Ever. All religion is folk lore. I’ve never thought that until now. At 40 years old. Now I live in truth. Guilt free.
Thank you for a fair and balanced discussion. You are not so common now a days. Keep up the good work.
:( I don't know how to feel right now. I've never heard any of these claims but the Lord lead me here so I know that I was supposed to see this. My whole life has been changed and I feel so alone. Pray for me please
no you need to pray , are you happy in church do you feel yourself a better human being that's what matters
I hope our Lord Yeshuah blessed you through your seeking. He did with us and even in leaving the church, He held our hand throughout. May He bless you throughout. Prayers!
Sallianne Hansen I am praying for you ❤️ yes, the Lord led you here to bring you to truth. Please, read your bible and get to know Christ the Lord and Savior Himself and Him crucified. Through reading and studying Gods Word, the Bible, you will come to know the truth, and He will set you free from all the deception. If you want to message me, please feel free.
You’re not alone. Look for the truth. And it will set you free.
@@marcyoliver3439 why trade one set of mythology for another? Makes no sense.
Bless your heart for bringing up this subject! I was full of sadness and anger for decades. My family treated me very badly when I officially removed my name from the church rolls 42 years after discovering (on my own) that the doctrine was full of holes and twisted facts. I felt forced to go to church and continue playing the game, but I finally had to stand for the TRUTH before my grandchild turned 8 years old. The association was affecting my DNA. I stand for truth and question everything!
This is a spiritually elevated point of view. Wise words for many situations.
I just want to say that The Lord put this video today for me. I am so happy and free now. Thank you so much for making this so clear. I love the church and I rather to be there than not bring there. But I also want to live in the real truth. I don't want to sugar code this and allow anyone to wash my brain. I love when you said that we have been through that every thing is black or white.
Love this day! Definitely a crucial in my life.❤️
I had fun listening to this original episode! It rings as true today as it did all those years ago.
I've been a member for 8 months, left it a few weeks ago and I still feel it was the right thing to do. There are so many things that are emberassing, heck even ridiculous quotes from current and past GAs and prophets.
If I can't say without shame that I support all church standpoints, then I don't want to be part of it
They ask you to take an oath to a Freemason cult with same tokens, symbolism, aprons and "the power of Lucifer's priesthood". You refused because they don't mention the satan freemason rituals they say is for your salvation.
I am glad you brought these things to light, it is important as Christians to hold our church accountable to the truth and bring darkness to light. Always go back to the Bible which has remained unchanged and pure and use it as the measure and guide for every teaching. Remember we the believers are the body of Christ, temples of the spirit of God and in so much we have authority and a voice.
errrrmmm, the Bible has remained "unchanged and pure"? how do you figure such a ridiculous statement? why don't you ask the Jewish people how the Bible has remained "unchanged and pure"?
The Jewish people are the ones who kept the old testament that way...they have such a rigorous way for maintaining it never changes that they burn it if so much as a jot or tiddle is out of place...the dead sea scrolls shows us that at the very least its been the same for the last 2000 years. The new testament has had so many copies of each of the books therein that we know it to be true as well. Discoveries of early papyri manuscripts (the Jhon Ryland manuscrpt 130 AD the Chester Beatty Papyri AD 155, and the Bodmer Papyri II AD200) shows the new testament has gone unchanged as well. Over 20,000 ancient copies of the new testament have been found, the only comparable ancient document is the Iliad which has 643 identical ancient copies. Historically no one questions that Homer wrote the Iliad because of this...logically how much more can we trust the new testament manuscripts to be accurate to the original writings of the first apostles.
Also check out Ivan Penin and the Bible code which is mathematical evidence for the authenticity of the new and old testament.
Thank you for helping those LDS who do not understand what I have been feeling for the past 2 years. I dedicated almost 40 years of my life to the LDS Church, but have since left because of what I now know about the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. I could no longer "sustain" any prophet of the LDS Church knowing that it was founded on deception by it founder. Beginning with his first vision account and the many changes through the years. Thank you for understanding me. :)
18:00 Correction: "The same peep stone he used to find treasure with" Ooops, what you should have said was "The same peep stone he claimed to be able to find treasure with but never did which was why he was sued and lost in court over it." He never actually found "treasure" with his peep stone.
charged with black magic and glass looking, even heavily criticized by famous american authors such as mark twain, and i believe even benjamin franklin criticized the practice of glass looking and treasure digging to rip people off, as it was apparently so widespread that it was bankrupting people to the point that people like JS were brought before the courts. He even came clean to his wife’s father after making off with her and eloping after her father said “absolutely not”. He tearfully admitted to his forgeries and said he would work as a farmer. Didn’t happen the first time when his family had farm land. And never happened afterwards. His mother’s influence, especially with black magic and the occult and animal blood sacrifices, drove the family to join the new religion creating movement, of which their town was especially famous for.
I only found this out in 2019...howyou know it 2011..??
@@user-bw3fl7fj9w reddit exmormon had the sources long ago
@@soulure oh, guess I'm behind
I appreciate what you're trying to do here. The only objection I have is with encouraging struggling members to shift their focus from what's "true" to what's "good." Eternal destinies are at stake and if the salvation doctrine of the Church is wrong, that is an insurmountable problem. What good does it do to look for what's good and focus on serving in the Church if one's understanding of how we get to heaven is still completely off? Additionally, if someone in the Church does come to understand and accept biblical salvation, why would they want to stay in a church that tries to keep them in bondage?
BRILLIANT FAIR and HONEST!! Thank you John
At 44:50, John says "Bad apologetics can injure more testimonies than anti-Mormon literature."
So true! I am Mormon, and I can't stand FAIR. They make me ashamed to be a Mormon more often than not.
You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I must ask. What keeps you in that church?
Hey Jesse! Just saw your comment now, and want to know where you are now spiritually after six years.
i left over doctrinal issues but i truely have a heart of to do my best to serve heavenly father
This is one of the best videos on the mormon religion on youtube! Very objective, great job!
Enjoy listening how you present the Mormon how it is the truth in it I’m inactive Mormon some of my family are still active I agree to still love them family and friends understanding is a blessing
If u can follow without critical thinking your "In".
Yes, when I ask questions at church they look at me as a crazy black person and an outcast. But I just want the truth
@@beniebee7229 Hey bro! Have you ever read the new testament of the Holy Bible?
Black people weren't allowed the Melchizedek priesthood until 1978 in the Mormon church. The true Jesus Christ nailed your sins to His cross thousands of years ago. He immediately inspired His apostles with tongues (read Acts), to preach to the entire world.
I can't imagine what it feels like as a black person finding this out, especially when you've probably been shown a ton of love from your family and church community on one end.
Just seeing this first podcast - 14 years later. Today - 9-22-2022 after 4 years of inactivity in mainstream Mormonism, I submitted my official letter of resignation to the membership dept by email and certified mail, and mail to branch and stake - moved here 3 years ago and never attended. Will hand deliver a copy to branch president on Sunday morning. Done!!!
I appreciate your perspective. Thank you!
I can't believe I'm only seeing this now. It's like a relic of a RUclips video and still so relevant to the Mormon life experience
The "sinners" reason is especially offensive for multiple reasons. For starters, we are all sinners according to the church doctrine. Secondly, just being active in the church proves nothing about your worthiness. Many people that are active in the church and believed to be "good" people have the biggest skeletons in their closet. Like the "most spiritual" and "insightful" teacher in my childhood ward that got caught molesting his kids for years. "Sinning" should not even be part of the discussion when someone leaves the church.
I appreciate the suggestion "forget true....consider good." After learning some of the history and facts described in this presentation the Church stories quit working for me and I left the Church. I now use other sources to help me be a good human being. However, for my parents, some family members, and friends the Church stories work well at helping them be good people. I don't consider the Church true but I can see that it can do good, maybe even for myself again one day.
you said it, and my wife is still in it. I love the people, their good people. I don't know why they don't evolve past the religion.
It would be great if we could love each other without being conned with "one truth", coerced with "hell", indoctrinated by parents etc.
Humanity, it appears, is not mature enough... yet.
Don't help them, please, let them free ! I was a member for 45 year, was born in the church, never questionned it, I was too conditionned after years of primary, young women, seminary and so forth, to think by and for myself to see the deception of it all. No, I left the church because I trained in EFL (Equine Facilited Learning), coaching with horses. In order to be in synch with the horses, which live, like all living things apart humans, in the present moment, I had to practice full awareness meditation. Awareness... that's the key word ! Mormon are so deeply immersed in doctrines, rituals and beliefs, kept so busy with church reunions and church related activities, they have lost their awareness, their ability to think, to analyse rationnaly. I suddenly saw things as they are, and i'm telling you, it's not a pretty sight when you see religions from the outside with your eyes open. Not a pretty sight at all..... Once awake, I ran away from it, litteraly.
I have to disagree with your third disclaimer. Lying "prophets" does mean that the church is false. If a prophet speaks one wrong word, he is not from God.
I love this video! I left the church almost 7 years ago. Watching this finally helped me let go of all my anger and resentment toward the church and those I love that I affected when I left. John has helped me realize that the way I acted and the way they acted was purely natural and based on emotions. If I would have seen this video while I was going through my crisis of faith, I might have stayed.
Glad I left that cult after 50 long years. But, I want them to leave my children alone and STOP brainwashing them against my will.
I must admit that I am wondering about myself at this point. Wasting each others time on something that will never change. You know you are right and I think I am right. Good day.
"There's nothing wrong with deciding you can be a Mormon on your own terms" - that's not what the Church teaches.
the polar opposite of mormon writings. It was like a light switch had been turned on! Everything fell into place, and previously held beliefs fell like dominoes. I felt a HUGE burden had been lifted from my shoulders, peace like I had never known flowed through me. I felt the overwhelming love and acceptance of God. I knew then that no matter what I did wrong He would not love me less, and no matter what I did right He would not love me more. It was no longer about me, it was about Jesus Christ.
Great video. Indeed, you can be a Mormon on your own terms and consider the Church as sort of social club dedicated to charity and self-perfection (and I sympathetize with that point of view), but reject all the things that do not make sense that go with it - that would include Joseph Smith being a prophet, the Book of Mormon, temples, baptisms for dead etc.
I'm not sure if this approach makes sense though. What would be the point of tithing, if you know that most of it will be spent on nonsense like building temples and printing BoM? Wouldn't it make more sense to spend the money on something that is actually helpful to people like food, clothes, housing and education?
Justin Snyder I believe I did my research with an honest heart, and I'm sorry that results of my research do not agree with your beliefs. For instance, you can quickly google "wives of joseph smith" to learn more about his life and to see that what he did actually contradicted what he preached (and I mean not just polygamy, but the fact that he married women who were already married at the time with living husbands).
I don't intend to change your beliefs (because if they help you in your life, then great and good for you), but rather I want to explain why I think this way.
Justin Snyder So is Todd M. Compton, Mormon historian and author of "In Sacred Loneliness", is just someone who posts stuff on internet?
Is FamilySearch just some random organisation not related to LDS church?
These are just a couple examples of the sources from which the information was drawn.
www.mrm.org/joseph-smith-and-polygamy
Justin Snyder Wow, what an angry reaction. How am I lying exactly? I only said what information I found and explained what were the sources.
I'm sorry that you are unable to keep this discussion civil.
Justin Snyder Whatever you say, tough guy. Just stop yelling at me already.
Justin Snyder I don't see any truth in what you're saying. What you do is aggressively yelling at me and demanding me to shut up. If that's the Mormon truth, thank you, I'll pass.
A lot of what you had to say was very insightful and helpful. The BIGGEST challenge for ANYONE, including yourself is to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. I've sat through numerous unmeasurable amounts of redundant topics and lessons in the mormon church, where most imperfect people just aren't getting it! How many times does one have to sit and hear the same advice over and over again before people actually go out and put action to their words and not just hear what needs to be said?
I live in Utah and stay far away from the Churches control
"As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason. Delusion becomes a choice." Jim Whitefield
I would simply remind you that everyone one I know who has left the church including myself spent a long time considering your "things for them to consider". I know of no one who leaves the church lightly.
Second, FARMS is not the best example of a intellectual role model for the doubter. I know several BYU students looking to FARMS for answers and assistant only to be left with more questions and placement on the "Strengthening of Members" watch-list with the threat of no diploma.
I absolutely loved this video! I’m striving to do my best to stay in the church after going through a faith crisis myself. Thanks for the work you do John
You look like the guy I know at my LDS church in mesa az!😎
This guy John has left the church. His mormon stories web site is great. In the age of information, Ignorance is a choice. For starters, The B of Mormon has been changed so many times it's not even the same book JSmith wrote. By the way, JS plagiarized the King James bible amount other books of his time. What a con man.
He didn't leave. He was excommunicated.
Because he dared to question the false doctrine. Information set him free.
Man,this guy really hits the nail on the head. Finally some REAL truth about the LDS church from a member. I can honestly say from my own experience that many of the things this guy mentions were NOT taught in church when i was a member. Every week was the same thing over and over- the church is true/perfect, Hinkley/Monson- living prophets, scriptures are here to guide us and the list goes on...( sigh). Anyway, im not against the LDS church or anything but jus more christ centered.
I would love to see you walk through the Church Essays. Some crazy things are in there such as Joseph Smith being threatened by an angel with a sword if he didn't practice polygamy. All on the church's website.
Check out the rest of his videos and the Mormon stories website. You’re late to the party.
Wow! I'm impressed that your love for the church was so great that you could (1) teach early morning seminar and (2) not have lost your faith, even though you had this knowledge. It gives me empathy for other people who know a lot of objective truth and stay in. When you say you are not out to make people leave the church, you really mean it, even now. I'm curious: I just recently subscribed, so I don't know your history. How long was it after this podcast that the church wanted you out? Thanks.
I suspect that the only Mormons who now defend the faith vehemently are those on the inside, i.e. the top brass to to speak (the "apostles" and upper management) who have deeply vested personal interests, plus members who are not fully aware of the actual teachings and doctrines of the LDS organization.
For example, do members know about Kolob? Or that Joseph Smith claimed the moon was inhabited; or that Brigham Young claimed the SUN was inhabited?
Are they familiar with the teaching that God was once a MAN and through his behavior became God? Do they know the LDS doctrine that after death, men become founders of new universes, become Gods (gods?) themselves? Do they realize the extent to which temple rituals are based on Freemasonry? Do they know the history of Joseph Smith in detail, for example that he was deeply into the occult?
Have they researched the "Book of Abraham"? (an egregious fraud, easily exposed by Egyptologists)
Are they aware of the astounding similarities between the "Book of Mormon" and other books written before the BoM, relating a supposed Jewish ancestry to native Americans?
And do they know that DNA analysis has proven that the American Indians' ancestors were NOT Jews, but Asians?
I have no doubt that with the increasing availability of information, through the Internet, there will be a rapidly accelerating fall-off in the Mormon church --- and their missionaries will experience more and more resistance in their visitations.
When my spouse and I were approached many years ago, the story of the "translation" of the "Book of Mormon" was that Joseph Smith used a "urim" and a "thumin" formed into spectacles to read the plates, but that's been changed, and now the LDS organization avers that Smith put a seer stone in his hat, stuck his head in his hat to keep light out, and DICTATED the "Book of Mormon" without looking at the metal plates!
Blessings!
your temple duties are luciferian and masonic. your temples have satanic pentagrams and ejyptian symbols say what you really are
I love my church , I love the people in it I dont give a damn about the stuff you just recited true or not they are accepting and loving and that was what Christ was all about
Thank you for taking a stand against racism, bigotry, and derogatory remarks.
The apologists actually make things worse. They are so desperate to prove something true that they rush to make an argument without considering all of the facts. Often their arguments change over time. For example, follow all the apologist arguments over the Book of Abraham since the early 1900's to today. Those arguments have changed dramatically. And the new arguments today are so desperate, that they are unbelievable within minutes of reading/listening. The best thing an unauthorized apologist could do to help the Church, is to stop.
Anyone who leaves the church and feels injured, please read the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, it has nothing to do with Mormonism, but it may explain why you feel injured and how you can overcome that injury. And everyone else, read the book because it is great life wisdom.
Why would anyone leave their church to join another church that's just ok and not perfect, and ordained by God.
+kirkland meadows Many would leave because they have looked deeper into the church and what it teaches and found that it is "NOT" ok and NOT perfect, and NOT ordained by God. My wife and I moved to SLC and started to find out things and teachings that we never heard before when we lived in Calif.. When we asked questions of our Bishop here we got totally different answers then we got when we asked them from our Bishop in Calif. My wife made and posted a video of why she left here on RUclips.
If you don't believe that a church is "ordained by God" then there is no reason to stay. I do not believe that the church is ordained by God and I will not continue to go as I grow older (I'm still relatively young). If you believe that what you are doing is right and it makes you happy then more power to you!
If you do not believe the church is the "true church" then why wait till you are older. Actually the only "true church" is the one talked about in the Bible the "body of Christ" which is made up of all people who put there faith in the saving work of Jesus Christ. The LDS church teaches a different Jesus, and different gospel and a different way to be saved.
I left the church because my bishop asked me to leave. He stated I was asking questions that he felt was disturbing to the church.
There's a reason Christ is called the King of Kings. The Church is not a democracy. Either our Prophet is Christ's mouthpiece on earth or he's not. I fully support president Monson as prophet, seer, & revelator. I fully support everyone's free agency to do according to their own will as well. I'm just saying please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
To meet the difficulties that are coming, it will be necessary for you to have a knowledge of the truth for yourselves. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess this personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got the testimony, live right and call upon the Lord and cease not till you obtain it.
If you do not you will not stand ... The time will come when no man or woman
will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the
light within himself. If you do not have it, how can you stand?
--- Harold B. Lee
And what has Monson prophesied??
I want to respond as the sister of a Mormon convert and a person who has been very angry and anti-Mormon. I highly respect this man; he clearly takes from Mormonism what I take from Christianity--guidance on how to live a Christ-like life. I don't care about rules, hell, or anything else that deters me from helping my fellow human. If you're atheist and moral, good for you! If you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish--fantastic! If you're Mormon but act in a Christian way (like this man), praise God!
I love the Gospel and it's brought me happiness and freed my mind in a way no other evidence could. I believe that the savior Jesus Christ is my personal redeemer and that no matter what type of forces try to tear that belief down, I will always know that the Lord loves and cares for me, and desires my personal salvation, and nothing but his grace is sufficient to give that to me.
First of all, I must appreciate you supporting Ron Paul. Im English and have no say in the outcome of American politics, but the owners of USA affect the whole world.
I was Mormon for 16 years. Then my parents bought me a laptop and internet access for my birthday. I learnt all about the book of abraham and the papyri joseph falesy "translated".
I can't fathom how you can see the reality of the Church so clearly and still remain a member (let alone active). How do you sit in church each week listening to talks and lessons and songs that reinforce over and over again 'we KNOW, 'we TESTIFY, 'we will be missionaries and teach others these truths', knowing that it's false? How do give a priesthood blessing knowing that Joseph Smith was a liar who restored nothing, received nothing, translated nothing? There's no integrity in it.
Thanks for being the first Mormon to ever tell me that the church as not been open about its founding. Bring these issues up to most members and they will go nuts and tell you off.
How about recognizing that service to the poor is more important than a shopping mall?
And to answer your question, it does not matter which book I am left with on the deserted Island. I have read them all many times and I have them in my heart. Though I would prefer to retain them all, I could survive with any. Which would you like me to have?
I LOVE THIS!!!! This is the best presentation of why anyone should NOT be a mormon -just like you say- The fact that there are no reasonable answers to these HUGE PROBLEMS in mormonism is no where more accurately stated.
I sent my letter out about a month ago. I actually stopped almost 4 years I decided to go back to school to become a Pastor. God Bless Doug
Thats why I left, when I started pointing out and asking my Bishop why we are saying verse A means such and such yet in hebrew and greek words mean something else. I did the research, asked the question, and got asked to leave the LDS church. It’s a blessing knowing I no longer have to give “pat answers” or sidestep logical questions anymore.
@TheSnoopy1750 - I was not desperate, nor gullible when I thought very clearly and argued every point and many more that were shown here, and yet with all clear thinking honest intellect, I came to the conclusion that joining the LDS church was the Right thing for me to do.
It is enlightened thought. If a person really researcher’s that church, they cannot believe.
Why will the leaders not answer people's questions honestly and earnestly? Instead, I hear people are told to stop researching and blaming people saying they don't have the Holy Ghost with them. I have found that when some people leave the church they don't fall apart because they actually found Jesus and learn about God's love for them.
Anyone thinking about leaving the church, watch at least the last 7-10 minutes of the program. Interesting things to consider, while you continue to study things out on your own.
What happened between this presentation and when you left? What changed?!
@Cheshu1 Thanks for the verse! I am a mormon and i sure do wish the Church would better address church history and use the bible more often! Thanks for your time my friend
Hi, i'm a mormon and i would like to share my story. I know that we live in such a whirlwind of tentations and sins nowadays. These days ive seen so many of these videos and idk how to feel right now. I want to believe it'd true but i want to make the right choice. This church makes me feel like im home, safe and loved. This church makes me feel happy and free but after all of this I really don't know. I don't think im old enough to make my own choices and if i talk to my parents about this i feel like they woulnt get it bc i'm at such a delicate age right now. if any of you have suggestions. Ty❤️
Hi there! I wonder where you are in your faith transition now, and how it all went with what you found out and were your parents ok about it? Rly hope you're ok! Thanks
@@weaksohyeah I advise you to tell your parents that you want to study church history ....Then present them with all the disturbing facts in this video and continue to ask them questions .....Ask for Gods help ,.....It is very wrong to believe a lie ,The bible clearly states that' '' If anyone presents you Another gospel '' .....Do not believe them or it .
Very well presented. My lineage goes way back all the way to my Great Great,Great Great (I honestly don't know how many Greats) Grandfather was John Tanner. Being born & raised in the church I was indoctrinated by so many of the false or sensationalized tales of Joseph Smith. To be taught since I was just a little kid Joseph Smith was the 2nd most virtuous man next to Jesus? He refused Alcohol as a little kid when he had painful surgery? Many of you know I could go on & on. I am so hurt and devastated not only how the church lied (and I believe not telling whole truths about our past leaders is a lie), but that I almost feel guilty for even feeling this way.
I was married in the Temple and had two wonderful kids but we got divorced when they were very young. They live with their mom and they are so into church, especially my 15 year old son. How can I tell them the whole truth about the church without alienating not only them but also my relationship with their mom finally after years of getting to having a civil relationship as co-parents.
How do I tell my dad these things as he is as blind as they come to the church & I would be blasphemous for even trying to show him some of these things.
I still have fond memories as a youth. I did get my Eagle Scout which I'm very proud of. I didn't serve a mission but helped convert a few friends. I still believe the church Today for the most part is good. They have great teachings as far as families and service. I read some comment about how they scam people out of their money for no good. I totally disagree. They have the best welfare care for those in needs. They do have a love & genuine care for people. Unfortunately I don't think it's enough for me to ever go back and that deeply DEEPLY saddens me.
I don't know about religion as a whole anymore, but I also believe that being such sniveling ass holes & judgmental ignorant rejects like many of you & your comments does no good but help keep the blanket of stupidity wrapped around your insecurities wasting your time in being disgusting and such Angry people. Don't you have better things to do like reading the bible and remembering and living the ways Jesus teaches? Seriously. I'm not talking about everyone but some of you get a freaking life & mind your own spirituality woes. Being hurt and upset is one thing, but those of you that spew judgmental & hateful words & condemnation? I'm Serious when I ask this question, What would Jesus do? Would he say some of the things a few of you self righteous people do? If you say yes, well then you aren't Christians at all. In fact you breath the very essence of evil you claim to be against.
The one thing I will always respect the LDS church for is they never wasted their time trash talking any other religion or church. The only people & churches who do that both in Sunday services and even in their Youth groups are the ones who feel insecure & scared shitless wasting time bad mouthing other religions instead of focusing on the teachings of Christ. AGAIN is that what Jesus would do or would he love & be secure enough he wouldn't have to go after others with different beliefs?
Ryan, to discover lies, or feeling like you've been deceived is very hurtful, and you were a part of that, so I understand how you might feel guilty. I felt guilty leaving the Mormon church too. Think another way. You didn't leave Jesus, did you? So if you still put God and Jesus in your life, don't feel guilty about leaving A church.
Also, please respect your children's views, as they have a relationship with God and Jesus; yes, even in the Mormon church. The spirit is with them, and their church too! In your comments, you defend the Mormon Church's involvement in people, and I agree with you. The Mormon Church TODAY, has become a very Godly, family oriented church, despite their origin. So, let your children stay close to the spirit. Only with your patience and love, and being a role model, they may eventually see what you see.
you are not alone ryan. the church boasts 15 mill members, however, only 9 are active, 2 on probation, and 1 in spiritual court. And the rest are slowly discovering what you have stumbled upon....the facts. I am a 5th generation mormon that to this day can not have an honest discussion with my mom because my love for her supercedes my thoughts. Yes they are great on face value...and i truly long to "shoulder to the wheel push along".... but at some point we (I) must grow spiritually alone. Hence..you are not alone.
For those who do see the truth with undimmed vision i thank you for your delightful video.
Really well presented John. You and Margi are such good people.
I am blessed to be a new black convert to the LDS church,and have read several books on blacks in the church, including one written by a black member of the seventy. I grew up in the Church of Christ,but I feel good about the LDS church. One of the things I read about blacks in the church, was remember the prophet is a man, he is not Jesus, he will make mistakes, the church has made mistakes, will continue to make mistakes. I love serving others. This is excellent video,thank you compiling it.
Me and my family were born in JWs. I left 20 years ago. My gromn daughters eventually left too.
My oldest daughter 29 yrs old, married a Mormon and joined 2 years ago.
From what I see Mormons are happier than JWs. But I realize JWs may look happier to Mormons than themselves. I really don't know because all high control/cults look happy in public.
My thing is that I don't know what she could be dealing with because she possibly can't talk openly to me just like JWs never feel right to let non JWs/Worldly people know everything less than perfect is how we showed to the World, no matter how tough life was at the time.
@lindalds Multitudes have both prayed, & using LDS source material exclusively, studied themselves out of the Mormon church into the living light & liberty of Christ, when they came to the place of thirsting more for Truth than all else & realizing that honesty is more important than loyalty. The transition is not easy, but the intimate enjoyment of the Superscendent Splendor of Jesus Christ in time & for all eternity is infinitely worth it.
I Am an inactive Mormon I stopped going because I moved around a lot but I am going to start going back
Are you back?
Yes I am
pammyla66 it makes me glad! I'm a convert, I will be sharing my story publicly soon. Keep on going, there's no better system, although it is full of inpetfect people, including the general authorities, but we're all trying to learn to follow the light. It's sad that the guy that did this video had been excommunicated. He had a good understanding but got confused. Today he's not sure about an after life or that there is a God.
I came across your content from a search on RUclips music (the Ally Christiansen story) and then the Ruby Franke news. Are you still active after 15 years?
TREMENDOUS video, brother Dehlin!
You may well be the man to kick-start a reformation, of sorts, within the church as it applies to the way some things are hidden; that maybe best brought into the light.
While I believe you are a little off the mark on certain points, the crux of your message is very true... that we should love and support our brothers & sisters with a Christ-like love when they have doubts. If we are secure in our own testimony & faith, this shouldn't be too hard.
Yes, I have. In fact, I've written articles about it, including criticisms of some of the fantasies some people have spun around it. How about you?
@Shulamitefire You have to remember when this was said, and to whom. It is NOT written about LDS vs. non-LDS, it was written about Christian vs. non-Christian.
Creed comes from the latin word credo, which means a statement of religious belief. When someone says the subscribe to a certain creed it is the same as a member of the LDS church quoting their articles of faith. Both the articles of faith and any of the orthodox Christian creeds are man made yes, but the define what they hold to be as a statement of they believe to be the most important Christian doctrines.
despite the fact that we have all experienced many different things...its sad to know how easy it is to fall...we experience life...we make choices...and we live...but to post things on here to bash on individual religion is wrong...there are many different religions with faults...but yet when a "MORMON" messes up its blown up...i am a MORMON and despite the choices i make in life...i will believe and will continue to believe that this is the only true church on the face of this earth...
This a rare, refreshingly honest variety of video regarding the Monson movement of Moroni presented by an LDS. Thanks much, John.
I encourage everyone to listen to John's excellent four part interview with Grant Palmer in which Grant laments the absence of Christocentricity in the LDS faith, speaks about the Mormon church's fabrication of their history, & their misguided romanticization of Joseph Smith. Go to John's RUclips channel for the link.