10 Moments That Almost Killed Star Trek
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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I was very sad that they cancelled Enterprise and hated the last episode where they killed Tucker
Best and most fun year of Enterprise was the last one, until they brought back Braga to write that last episode.
In retrospect the Xendi war should have been the Earth/Romulan war whose aftermath was the Federation. They should have dropped that whole temporary cold war trope. However Braga really got accolades for his First Contact movie script, so Enterprise was completely tied to that, not TOS. Only the last season started tying to TOS.
He "fixed" that with the finale. Enterprise was again a TNG prequel.
They said season 5 was supposed to be the Romulan war, but that would have been two big war arcs in a series about exploration. Too much like Babylon 5.
It's too bad cause season 4 was definitely when Enterprise was hitting on all cylinders. Trip's death is literally worse than Tasha Yar's death which is really an accomplishment...If Enterprise had gone on I would have been interested in seeing the Romulan war. It most certainly would have been better than the Xindi, which let's be honest here, was merely a poor man's Dominion.
@@joshuaweston4489 That is WHAT, the whole show was SUPPOSED to be about:Founding of the Federation of Planets, accelerated by the Earth/Romulan war.
@@DMSProduktions Chinese phones are pretty quick on autoguess even before you get halfway through the word it has put someting lacking context. A metaphor really.
It was just a dumb comment on a dumb website for a light and sometimes entertaining show... I didn't bother checking ZTEs typing.
Oh: "Productions"
Since man stopped exploring space himself in the 70s and left it to probes, shows like Star Trek find it hard to gather an audience without a big war. Mir and the ISS/Shuttle programs were just hanging out in the nearby sky.
In the 60s people still imagined humans going and colonizing all the planets, and maybe stars. People knew little of physics and didn't think about the distances, so a show could move at the speed of plot and you find lots of human aliens out there "Where No Man Has Gone Before".
With the renewed manned deeper space efforts, kids may get interested in something besides shooting CGI model spaceships in WWII fashion.
If there's an administration change back to 2009, then all that stuff NASA/SpaceX/Blue Origin plans will be cut again.
@@STho205 Fuck me! Ok. IDK about smart phones. Never owned/used 1.
BUT I see your point!
MY spelling of my name is a cheap shot. I had no choice but to spell it that way, as it was already taken!
All good!
You failed to give due credit to Lucille Ball (of “I Love Lucy” fame) who was the person who insisted on Star Trek getting a second pilot.
Came here to post the same! Gotta give credit to her for saving Star Trek!
I used to despise the money-grabbing spate of Lucy Shows. Then I learned that they were keeping Desilu afloat and that Lucy was behind the second pilot. Thank you, Admiral Ball!
Marcus is not really a true fan of Star Trek. He is biased, ignorant and doesn't appreciate the multilayered nuance of the story telling.
R D I do get a bit of a “Less angry version of Steve Shives” vibe from many of his comments...
That’s why I really LOVE LUCY!
I have finally watched almost all of the episodes of Enterprise. I am so sorry that it didn't get a least another season to cover the Romulan War, the early years of the Federation, more of Schran, and Trip and T'Pol. I'd still like to see some version of the Romulan War.
Totally agree. I believe season 5 of Enterprise would have been really good and could have maintained the 7 season tradition
@@2ManyGoats Definitely. I didn't even know where to watch Enterprise until season 4. Once I saw it, and worked out the continuity, I found it interesting. I've since watched the whole series via streaming, and thought that once they got to the Xindi arc, things really got better. It deserved a better fate.
For me, Star Trek ended at “Enterprise.” The 2009 movie was cute, but subsequent movies didn’t cut it. The Tardigrade Lawsuit soured me on “Discovery.” I went into “Picard“ really wanting to like it, but had to stop watching about three episodes in.
It was nice to enjoy Star Trek during its long run.
Makes one wonder why they wasted so much time covering other stuff, like the Xindi war. Why do a prequel series if you don't work with the stuff people had been asking for?
@@BCWasbrough why create a series full of stuff everyone already knows?
Umm... Animated? It wasn't 10 years after the end of TOS to new Star Trek. It was 4 years.
And nothing about the Paramount/Viacom/CBS split that caused all the problems...
exactly!
Great to see Watchmojo presenters who are such big fans that they missed that completly. Look I enjoy these top 10 videos, but dont claim to be something your not.
@First Cynic
I guess not mentioning that was the only way that TrekCulture weren't going to get an "Cease and Decease" order from CBS.
Indeed its one of the reasons why they have to change the look of the Enterprise.
According to an interview with George Takei the release of Star Wars is what killed Phase 2. Paramount was concerned after Star Wars something on the small screen would get overshadowed. I bet they also got dollar signs in their eyes after seeing just how big Star Wars became.
And when The Motion Picture failed to be "2001 meets Close Encounters meets Star Wars" Paramount got pissed, and had been bitter at Star Trek ever since, no matter how much money it made for them.
Weird how you didn’t mention the Kelvin timeline movies. They almost killed the franchise because there was nothing going on for the 50th anniversary.
Disagree. The JJ films brought Trek back but not for thr better
botfan78 Oh I should clarify: They brought back the franchise big and strong, but the third one killed it off again.
Kelvin Timeline is not Star Trek.
The Kelvin timeline didn't "almost" kill Star Trek. It killed it, buried it and danced on it's grave.
@@tornadogirl9099 noooooo c'mon that's clearly not true. Picard and the Pike series are gonna be fine, and the Kelvin movies can't take any credit or blame for those two.
Star Trek IV is one of my favorites because of the whales, the hospital chase, and nuclear wessels
The ones is alameda?
@@njb1126 exactly!
"Kirks Shoes can not be filled"
Patrick Steward: "Hold my Beer."
it was funny is at first when they announced the cast most of the actors were unknown so for Patrick Steward most magazines put unknown English Shakespearian actor for his description and that what he put on the door of his room on set
I mean...you could argue about the quality of season 3, but most people who watched Enterprise Season 4 thought it was actually pretty good.
Well, as long as you ignore the godawful mess that was that final episode that at least one friend of mine refuses to acknowledge even exists
I just could not belive that they finalize the show with such a horrible episode but seson 4 was good
@@gabrielfranco1899 i agree
Season 4 was canceled almost from underneath them. They were trying to wrap up all of the missing explanations of Star Trek lore (think of the ridges on the Klingons, etc) in a few episodes. I think it should have been on Fox or another network with more of a following. Had this happened present day, it would have been picked up by Netflix or Hulu.
Season 3 was a yawn fest. The whole "temporal cold war" thing became old fast, yet they stretched that storyline for the ENTIRE SEASON.
The Xindi arc in Enterprise is one of the best in ST.
The problem I had with Discovery was all inconsistencies with canon it had.
That's been a Star Trek staple for almost 60 years now!
Star Trek has always played loose and hard with canon, like Andrew here has noted elsewhere, Uhura had her memory wiped and fully regained in the timespace of no more than a month.
Plus here are a few off the top of my head:
The Bonaventure being the first warp capable ship
Gorn appearing differently in Enterprise
Voyager giving incorrect dates for Kirk's mission
Spock having emotions in the Cage
The animated series having a scene where Kirk is talking to McCoy who is in sickbay, only to have the next shot have him standing next to the captain, then have him disappear in the subsequent shot.
If anything, Star Trek now takes MORE care with canon than it ever has. For the first time there are franchise experts being consulted for canon discrepancies, the writers are being told the ins and outs of Trek's canon etc...
Some uses of canon in Discovery include Robert April being acknowledged, a reason for Spock's emotion in the Cage, Enterprise being acknowledged, and explaining the origin behind the Tribbles.
Now if this team is willing to watch the animated series (which is something that even diehard fans refuse to accept or watch) then more than likely you don't give them enough credit for their efforts in canon
That show completely turned everything upside down based of the season story direction of Fuller. I think it may have been better if the production design wasn't so far off from the feel of Trek; of course you can update the look slightly but they threw the ascetics of TOS trek out the window. I could also have helped not redesigning the Klingons which was a huge fuckup. And the uniforms looked terrible; you can't tell the difference between gold and that rust color under the lighting! And the ships all around looked terrible starfleet and klingon. And there really was no need to create a brother/sister relationship with Spock; that sounded more like a high level executive saying "you need to get Spock connected to the show somehow, he's got mass audience appeal"
Fix all that shit and the first season would have worked. And also if you're gonna say you're at war maybe show it more instead of telling the audience all the time you're at war; without that constant reminder you wouldn't know that.
Boy Anaxar looked and feels a lot more appropriate that discovery.
So lack of any likable characters in first season didn’t both you?
@@Scottlp2 I lived through TNG and Voyager with little in the way of likable characters for a few seasons. I'm used to it
I LOVE the shuttle review of the new Enterprise in TMP. You should have been in the first audience while the shuttle circled the ship. Screaming, passionate orgasmic groaning! Constant applause and many standing Os. Everyone was cheering so much you stayed for the next showing so you might actually hear some of the lines! Just think... we had been TEN YEARS without our Star Trek! Fanzines were one thing, but this was new, original, authentic TOS!
i think the biggest problem with discovery was that it took place in the past and they weren't following continuity with the other series....their ship was way ahead of its time and they needed to think as a period piece, which obviously, they couldn't....now however...they listened to the fans and have placed them after next generation's timeline so that they can have all the gadgets and cgi they want without pissing off fans even more....
Totally agree. I don’t know why they felt the need to do prequel’s.
There is so much story to be told post nemesis
No development of Star Trek for a decade? Is Star Trek: the Animated Series a joke? D.C. Fontana would be very disappointed in you.
the animated series will always be sadly forgotten. which is painful, bc there were some great stories in it.
At STLV in the last two years it was said during one panel that the animated series was now considered cannon- took them long enough .
May Fontana rest in peace.
I was in the 7th grade when the Animated Series came out. I had gone to my first Con, the previous year. I was hooked for sure. Where else would we know Kirk's middle name was Tiberius.
There were certainly some bad episodes in TAS (some of them really bad), but there was a lot of good stuff there, too. It was really the show that got me hooked on Trek, even though I had seen a few episodes of TOS before that.
Months leading to premier of the next generation there were previews of how the new enterprise would look. On paper it stank. But on screen, very beautiful. Also Patrick Stewart was referred to as: The Love Boat Captain, old etc... But new captain and Enterprise rocked! I think because in first episode it made clear they did not replace originals. It came after. Even showed old enterprise and McCoy and mentioned Spock. Respected the past. This is way to do it.
Yes, do something new while respecting the past. This is what hurt Discovery so much. It made no attempt to respect the past. It is important to do so, as an old franchise like this is what is often referred to as a "legacy franchise", a franchise that has outlived its creator, and because of that, it needs to be proven that the new shepherds of the franchise continue that spirit and legacy, and respecting the past helps build that trust early on.
@@@crazydud3380 Also, The Next Generation proudly stated - in all the publications leading to the premier, that it takes place decades (80+ years?) after Kirk and crew. That the original crew was the reason - there is a Next Generation. The Discovery marketing campaign was different. Discovery, being a prequel emphasized that THEY came first. Accept it. They tried to correct course by the end of the first season with the Enterprise, but by then, the trust was damaged.
Picard is a huge tool. TNG would have been so much better with Riker as Captain and Data as first officer.
@Kathy Main I had to look up tool. I see no evidence that Picard as a character is a tool -"idiot or screw up, not knowing being used." Please elaborate. But yes. Riker is an outstanding character. And data as his number one would be a cool series. I thought they were going to do Riker Series after Nemesis. Oh well...
@@chrissgchriss I saw Picard as weak, always asking his crew what he should do. As a supervisor I used to do that and was criticised for it. I just think the show would have been better with Riker as captain.
CBS's animosity toward Star Trek Fan Films (Whether self inflicted or not) should be on this list! It was the fan films that filled the void during those "dark times"!
Nope. Fans have been free to make fan films for 50 years, and many have. The problem arises when people try to profit off it, which is illegal and an abuse of copyright law. You can make a fan film, but out of your own pocket. This is how it has been for every franchise in circulation today, CBS enforcing their right to shut a project down because it is their legal right to do so when the makers of the project are breaking the law is perfectly acceptable
@@Lanosrep it seems like the few unscrupulous individuals illegally profiting from Star Trek made it difficult for legitimate fan film makers. I'm all for CBS protecting themselves, just punish the guilt ones not everyone else.
They're just jealous that the fan films ...even the bad ones...are better than Disgustery & Peecard.
Say what you want about "profits" being made ... its not clear that was unequivocally proven in CBS' lawsuit, but the short Prelude to Axanar blew both pitiful shows out of the water. THAT was pure Star Trek.
@@quentinmichel7581 I don't watch the new shows, no hate behind that. I wish them both well. I prefer fan films, made by fans for fans.
CBS should instead have animosity toward the crappy Star Trek they themselves produce..
And I was one of those fans that wrote in to save TOS after the second season.
🖖🏼YOUR WELCOME 🖖🏼
Love this :D
So... "Turnabout Intruder" is _your_ fault? :-).
Thank you, from a younger fan who wouldn't have tng without you
Glory to you and your house.
I turn sixty this year. I saw the first run in the 60’s as a little kid (my brother was 11 years older) and then rewatched again and again once it was in syndication. I went to conventions in my command gold miniskirt uniform that my mother made me in the 70’s. I was part of the movement that saw it brought back as The Motion Picture and the rest is history. I proudly pay for CBS All Access in order to see all the new Trek that is available there. I continue to hope for a Pike spin off! This universe and it’s energetic and loyal fan base are one of the things that have informed and enriched my life. Thanks for this channel to celebrate it!
Really nice!
What about that "Kelvin" non-sense timeline? That killed all my interest in any new Star Trek productions.
While I passionately hate that "Kelvin-timeline" BS: you do realize, that both "Discovery" and "Picard", as well als the upcoming spin-off with Pike are "main timeline", don't you? (Nonetheless I absolutely dislike Kurtzman-Trek as well as Abrams-Trek, for having absolutely no feel for Star Trek. Discovery is less of a f*ck up than Picard IMO, though.)
@@bierkraftwerk Not when Picard is full of plot holes and retcons.
Never do a horse impression again
😂😂😂
Tom Hardy in Nemesis looked like Dr. Evil!!!
There.......I said it...
“Give that man a series!” They just did!
They better not, I don't want another prequel...prequels are garbage and ruin the established canon
Regarding that scene you said you could take or leave... I remember being around 11 in 1979 when the original movie came out... Had a huge Shatner crush... My mom got us to the theater late, and the first thing I saw upon walking in @6:47 was Kirk in that Shuttle in his new uniform in all his Glory. It took my breath away! I'll never forget that.
YES! I remember watching TMP in the theater when it came out. I actually saw it three times in the same day. When I watched the shuttle doing a fly-bye of the Enterprise, I was glued to the screen. All I could say was WOW and AWESOME! To me, that ship was a cast member.
You guys done a list about Star Trek projects that didn't quite make it?
Voyager was nearly set on a Romulan ship, they almost made a series about medieval Klingons... my favourite is the cancelled animated Final Frontier series. That looked AWESOME!
Voyager set on a Romulan ship? That would have been awesome!
I never heard about the Romulan Voyager idea before. Do you know where I can find more information about this? I'm really intrigued.
#3 on this list. I remember that. My sister was saying she won't watch it. But I looked forward to the new series that first aired in September 1987. I was impressed. It took a few months, but my sister came around, and even bought the first three seasons on VHS cassette.
Lee
I can't speak for everyone, but what killed the momentum of Star Trek was going backward in time to a pre Kirk era. Voyager should have had at least one more episode to show the aftermath of their return home, and then pass the torch onto a new crew for a new series. Just like the original crew did for TNG to DS9, to Voyager. I wanted to see what would happen next! In my opinion Enterprise didn't shake the shakiness because many people like me thought like me. I personally think it was a slap in the face.
It took 20 years for them to tie loose ends together in Star Trek Picard... and now, they are trying to pull some bulshit by going WAY OUT into left field with Seven's character by the end of Picard implying that she's a lesbo now... when she clearly had a relationship with Chakotay.
Why do you believe that Seven of Nine couldn't become the person she became in Picard? A lot can happen in 20 years.
Her sexuality cringed me a bit, too, but I just thought she was bisexual. This could still fit her character since she was certainly still trying to figure out her humanity. For me, the true irony is she was working alone rather than in a collective, as she was always accustomed to. My only logical explanation is her desire for revenge for Icheb's death.
@@brentgranger7856 - for one thing, interaction with Raffi was extremely Limited. There was nothing in the plot line at all that showed that they had any interest in each other. No obvious implications whatsoever. If they're going to do something like that... they need to develop the plot more than just a token gesture at the end of the season's finale. I call bulshit simply to appease the lgbtq.
@@thenotsurechannel7630 Thanks for the response and for not being a jerk about it.
I guess I must have missed something about Raffi and Seven, as the relationship I know of was with the woman who killed Icheb. I do remember losing interest during the final episode, and I hardly paid attention to the ending.
I agree with you that LGBT content should be connected to and built through the plot if it is to be brought up like in TNG's "The Outcast" and DS9's "Rejoined." "Picard," as a whole, was nothing spectacular except in showing how dark and vulgar the Star Trek universe could be without the watchful eyes of Gene Roddenberry and Majel Barrett.
@@brentgranger7856 - the interaction I saw with Vajazzle, (or however you spell her name) and Seven did not give me any kind of lesbo vibe. I got the "I thought you were a damn good friend and you betrayed me" vibe from their scenes together.
@@thenotsurechannel7630 I don't even remember there even being a single scene in the entire show where Raffi and Seven even spoke?
The original pilot for Star Trek was repurposed as part of the two part season one episode The Menagerie.
Why are all the green women so promiscuous? Is Star Trek racially profiling?
Which was done because the series was over budget and they needed a cheap episode
@@johnule3247 When it is a different species, it is totally different, Kermit.
@@fuzzlemacfuzz They were over budget and had no usable scripts! "The Menagerie" was an act of desperation which kept the series going.
@@johnule3247 Why are they even humanoid?
I'll never again complain about TOS's third season... If it wasn't for the third season, TOS would not have enough episodes to go to syndication, and it would have disappeared in the sands of television. We would not have the Star Trek phenomenon without Kirk being ridden like a horse, Spock having his brain stolen, or the space hippies. I'll happily rewatch those episodes in the near future...
Thank you so much for making this, amazing quality unlike the drivel I normally have to ensure when looking for this type of content.
Fans not wanting TNG has been repeated with every single show, it's hilarious how short the memories of fans are. I was a kid when TNG came out so I saw that fans didn't want DS9 because it wasn't on a ship. Fans didn't want Voyager because it was in the delta quadrant. Fans didn't want Enterprise because it was set in the past. Fast forward to now, every second complaint about Discovery and Picard proclaims that Star Trek died after Enterprise ended, completely forgetting how utterly crapped on every series was when they came out. It's sad that there's so much negativity around something that has brought so many people so much joy. If you don't like a series, don't watch it, and don't bring down other people who do. Star Trek is full of positive messages, try to take those on board.
those were initial gripes when the show started. People are still saying discovery sucks after two seasons lol
I strongly agree. I've been a Trek fan all of my life (I'm 55) and I love both Discovery and Picard. For the life of me I just can't understand what all the whining is about.
Star Trek is full of positive messages, some Star Trek on the other hand are full of crap.
Mr Waffle is missing the point. Star Trek WAS full of positive messages. What kind of positive messages does Discovery have? That part ended with Enterprise.
It is unfortuante to think back and see that I was on the DS9 hate bandwagon. I despised it and refused to give it a chance. It wasn't until a decade later that I watched through it again and saw how truly amazing it was. Now not only is it my favorite Star Trek series of all, but I look back at myself and how I acted at the time and swore that I would never be that person ever again. It is why when Enterprise came out, I sat back and waited, anticipating that like all other shows it would improve,... and it did, and I loved it. Especially its final season (which I would put up against ANY season of Voyager). I can say I supported Enterprise from the beginning, unlike so many others who bitched at it only to switch sides and say "what? No, I never had anything bad to say" about both it and TNG. I at least admit my unfair treatment of DS9, and both regret and apologize for it.
@@kingpandagodoftaste9001 Most people saying Discovery sucks are those who still refuse to even watch it. They'll even deny the show improved at all with Season 2, which is absolute BS. That being said, there were still people saying TNG sucks through its entire run. The difference is, their voice was muffled by the fact there was no internet as we know it or social media at the time. Their negativity was limited to print publications that very few people (in general) actually read. You had to actively seek them out, they don't just pop up on your timeline. The internet has a funny way of making sure you see what you want to see, and when you want to hate something, it makes sure you see more negativity of it.
10:52 "The fans bloody hated it ... it was dark, it was gritty, and many of the characters were ... not at all Starfleet."
Not quite. We've seen and accepted all those things on Star Trek before.
The real issues were more like "it was dull, it was was insulting, and many of the characters were badly written."
To say nothing about the disregard for established continuity.
Yep. The darker, grittier Trek is what we had in DS9, but that show was able to do so and still not lose the essence of the Trek, which is hope. The new series are not hopeful, they are cynical, and not condemnatory of dissenting politics. Star Trek was always political, but it mostly managed to somehow present specific political stances in ways that did not come off as partisan, lowering people's defenses and actually contributing toward societal change. The saying "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" exists for a reason.
Crazy Dud 33 Discovery pushed for political correctness too much.. should have not made it center stage and written it as part of every day life instead of a major part of the episode..
@@chuckferraris8489 This makes me think you've never watched Star Trek
Star Trek had always been PC heaven, and Discovery is way less preachy than TNG
Chuck Ferraris this is always what it boils down to with you alt-trek incels. “Star Trek doesn’t share my right wing views. It refuses to acknowledge that the reason girls won’t have sex with me is because there’s a problem with them. Therefore it’s nOt mY tReK... MAGA”
Just... stop... crying...
Nobody has taken your old trek away from you. The one you have a sentimental attachment to because “holodecks replicators and pew pew” before years of social ineptitude turned you into an alt right malcontent. It’s still there man. The message has always been the same, you just don’t like being told it now.
Discovery and Picard - Let's **** off the fans and then call them toxic when they don't like our product.
Its also what they do when everyone keeps singing praises about the jj abrahms films the idiots at Hollywood decided oh the idiots loved these lets make new sh*t also it dont matter what anybody says they wont stop making them its all gunna b garbage
I was not a big fan of Discovery Season 1. Season 2 was much more enjoyable IMO. High hopes season 3 will be even better.
@@08msteed do you think that if it pulls a TNG (shit first season, rocky second season, great afterwords) people will acknowledge that? I think nowadays theres this culture of outrage that perpetuates this idea that things are either fantastic or horribly insulting. I don't know if people would be willing to get past that to enjoy the show, or even give it a chance. Doesnt help that it's only on a streaming service and that most people interact with it THROUGH those outraged videos.
@@autumn_breeze616 Some people will, some won't. Time usually is the great equalizer in these things. I think Star Trek community has proven to be very passionate but willing to forgive if the final product meets expectations even if the path to get there was rough. Just hope Season 3 does that. I'm concerned the far in the future thing will feel very different than "traditional" star trek.
@@08msteed The problem, as I see it, is that the Trek Community wants more Star Trek, but doesn't want more Star Trek. They don't want anything new (Discovery, Picard, etc.), just like they didn't want STNG because it wasn't OT, or DS9 because it wasn't STNG, etc.. I, for one, look forward to new stories, new cast members, new ideas, etc. I thoroughly enjoyed Discovery (both seasons) and Picard, and look forward to seeing Pike and his new crew in Strange New Worlds. Just my 2 cents.
I remember my parents were initially uninterested in the very idea of Star Trek TNG. It wasn't until the second season when they began to warm up to the show. Me? I was more of a fan of the movies than the original series and I vaguely remembered watching the animated show before going to school when I was much younger. Nowadays I can't imagine my teenage and young adult years without some form of Star Trek in it.
The 90s were really treks golden times. I watched TNG, DS9 and Voyager often after school with my dad who watched the original series reruns in the 70s but also preferred the 90s version.
My dad also likes modern treck since he loves cliffhanger stories but I have my bigger issues with it. It just grew to far from what I liked about star trek. I rather like the "new strange alien of the week“ format.
For an excellent analysis Isle of why Discovery and Picard killed Star Trek, both Midnight's Edge, nerdrotic, Geeks and gamers, and a host of other RUclipsrs have thoroughly explained it. Personally I'm 58 years old and I've been watching Star Trek since I was a kid. I've seen every movie, I've watched every series, I even like the Kelvin timeline movies. I was so disgusted after the first season of Discovery I no longer watch Star Trek and there are millions like me. Believe me, it took a Herculean effort to alienate ME from Star Trek. If someone likes Discovery God bless them they have every right to like whatever they want. But don't pretend it's Star Trek. The only Star Trek being produced today ....is the Orville
This comment deserves more likes.
@@richardsmall2855 thank you.
I love that you also show Gene L. Coon's name right after you mention Roddenberry around 7:55 haha
You forgot Shatner being allowed to direct a movie.
After a string of 3 good movies, Star Trek V was an utter disaster that almost spelled out the end for Trek
I hope in discovery they keep the momentum from season 2 as it’s so much better than season 1 and they don’t just ignore the development from 2
Nine of them from Nemesis alone.
The biggest complaint i have about Discovery is that they are portraying it in the prime timeline instead of the Kelvin Timeline. Had they portrayed it as events in the Kelvin timeline the show would be way more believable to me.
the shuttle scene in TMP is one of my favorites. It goes on for 5 minutes, pure Space Opera ending with "thank you Mr. Scott - Aye Capt'n"
I'd love to catch up on the new Star Trek shows but I can't afford CBS All Access.
A once off season leading right up to pikes accident would be nice.
I gotta tell you kids - movies in 1979 were totally different than movies today. I don't mean the stories or the acting or anything like that. What I mean is the event surrounding going to see a movie. Nowadays we just scroll through the list on a streaming service and start a movie while we're looking at our phones and other distractions. In 1979, you went to a theater where it was dark and you were completely disconnected from reality. ST:TMP was an *event*. I remember being awestruck seeing Kirk inspect the Enterprise refit from the shuttle (after not seeing him for more than 10 years). The "boring" scenes you recall were quite amazing in the theater. I will agree, ST:TMP does not translate well to home viewing and does seem boring. Heck, I even remember the first time it was shown on television (on ABC in 1983) - I fell asleep because it does not translate well to the small screen. But I'll never forget the feeling of watching it for the first time in the theater.
Discovery introducing a "sister" to Spock who had never, E V E R ....been mentioned by Spock, Sarek, Amanda, or Sybok, as having been there.
Sybok was never mentioned until Star Trek V as well. And just like Burnham, he disappeared from Spock's life before the events of TOS, long before we ever met Kirk.
It has been constantly shown in Star Trek that Vulcans are notorious for not volunteering information until it becomes pertinent. And there is not a single instance of TOS or any other Star Trek series where anything involving Burham would be pertinent information to include. "Oh, by the way, I had a Human sister" - "What does that have to do with anything?" - "Nothing, just mentioning it because it happened"
We never new Picard had a brother or nephew, until he did. We never knew Kirk had a son or a dog, until he did. We never knew McCoy had a father who he pulled the plug on "to preserve his dignity" until he did.
“Give pike a series!”
You’ve gotten your wish. STW coming soon!!
What someone said. 90s were ST Renaissance.
This is the Dark Ages. Into Darkness, if you will.
Star Trek was a masterpiece every season to Picard and Voyager DS9 and the original series and Next Generation I couldn't stop watching it all
I am astounded that Lucille Ball and Desilu Studios received no mention from you regarding their role in keeping Star Trek afloat!!
I'm 53, and grew up with TOS, but my son(12 at the time) & I watched the 1st season of Discovery, which he enjoyed, so I watched it and tried to remember what it was like for me in the 70's watching Kirk, Spock and crew. Thank God I did, (Spoilers)because at the end of Season 1, that ship appears NCC 1701, the most beautiful ship ever. Then we watched Season 2 had some great Trek moments.
The problem with Discovery wasn't that it was dark and gritty, dark and gritty was one of the main reasons DS9 was so great. While I do enjoy the two new show, they do get lost in shuffle amongst the many other puzzle box shows. The stories just don't compare to the previous shows
Discovery and picard are dark and gritty i love them
I was born in 84 and grew up with TNG, DS9, and VOY. I would not be who I am today if I hadn't had Star Trek as such an important part of my childhood. TNG is the best.
Seasons 1 and 2 of TNG were touch and go for several reasons.
First, there was a massive writer's strike right at the end of season 1 that upended Maurice Hurley's intended trilogy that would've introduced the Borg (which, along with Q, is his best contribution to the franchise) after the season 1 finale, "Neutral Zone". The strike cut season 2 to 22 episodes from 24, and forced the crew to recycle a story idea from Phase II. Other than _Measure of a Man_ and a couple other episodes, season 2 was like a holding pattern for TNG, the worst example being "Shades of Grey" which was nothing more than a clip show.
Second, the writing team was utter chaos in the first 2 seasons, not just because of the strike. Then-head writer Maurice Hurley thought Gene Roddenberry's idea of a utopian future was "wacky-doodle", and as show runner forced all the other writers to adhere to the utopian vision as legalistically as possible. This really, really hurt writers' creativity, and Roddenberry himself didn't agree with Hurley on such a rigid interpretation of his vision-- there was one episode that he rewrote so extensively that Hurley had himself credited with an alias in protest. Hurley was also responsible for Gates McFadden (Dr. Crusher) getting fired at the end of season 1 because he didn't like her acting. It wasn't until Hurley left after season 2 and Michael Piller joined (ironically, at Hurley's request) that TNG truly hit its stride. There was one other guy, Leonard Maizlish, who made life unnecessarily difficult for the writers. Maizlish was Roddenberry's attorney at the time. He had no right to be in the Paramount lot, he had no right to access things like scripts or computers, but he was constantly snooping around writers' offices, even accessing their computers without permission (which would have been a federal crime)-- certainly a matter the California Bar should've taken up.
Perhaps not enough to end the series, but there were several writers, including all the writers from the TOS days, who quit because of the above. Fans never learned about this until recently, but the remaining writers and producers weren't sure if the series would continue at that rate. Piller and his character-driven stories should be credited with starting the Trek renaissance of the 1990s.
The funny thing about "Measure of a Man" is, it came about BECAUSE of the writers strike. They got a lawyer who had never written for a television show before to write the script,... and what she pulled off was absolutely amazing. Without the writers strike, we may never have gotten this diamond of an episode.
As I heard the door chirp in the beginning, I almost said 'come in' before realizing that it wasn't my door...
When Beverly’s eyes phaser Maurice Hurley out of existence. Perfection. (8:00)
Crusher is the worst Doctor of the 5 Trek series by far.
I would like to add that the phrase “growing the beard” came from the correlation between Riker growing his beard and season 2 reviving Star Trek TNG. Jonathan Frakes even admitted in a Q&A panel that he was aware of the phrase and was honored by it.
I for one am very hopeful for Trek's future on streaming or TV (in the future). Discovery found it's footing I feel, and is going where it should have actually started..the FUTURE of the canonical timeline in Season 3. While not perfect, I enjoyed Picard. Really liked Captain Rios and his back story. And I'm also really excited for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds telling the stories of Pike, Spock, and even Number #1. So bring on the Trek CBS! I'm fine without Trek in theaters for a while. Especially in our current times.
I think Disco's smartest move was to go into the distant future with season 3. A lot easier to run amok with new ideas when the old shows are distant memories. Kinda how Bioware did their games thousands of years before the Star Wars movies to avoid toe-steppage.
Fun fact! The original pilot (with pike and company) is listed as the first episode on Netflix! At least it is in Canada I don’t know about other places
As an avid Trekker, I hate Discovery (thanks to Paramount not giving one shit what we thought and wanted), love TOS and Voyager, and am anxiously awaiting Axanar! 🤓🖖
I am as big an Axanar supporter as one can get, and yet I still find things to like in Discovery. Especially its second season. Anson Mount as Pike was amazing, and I would love to see more. Not at all a fan of Voyager though. I will admit there were some good, even great episodes,... but after DS9 showed how good a Star Trek show could be with a degree of serialization (not to mention Babylon 5 and Stargate SG-1), only to have Voyager utterly abandon that idea while trying too hard to be TNG-lite... its like the whole thing feels like a giant missed opportunity with so much wasted potential.
Yes, the beginning of Discovery is plagued by it clearly trying its damnedest to make sure everything about Axanar is de-canonized. Star Trek Picard also takes clear inspiration from Star Trek Renegades. The new Pike series will likely take a bunch from Pacific 201. But Deep Space Nine was equally a ripoff of Babylon 5, yet it is some of the best Star Trek ever written. We just needed to give it the chance to build and grow. The chance we refused to give Enterprise, just as it was getting really good. We should take a lesson from our own past and not only welcome new ideas (IDIC) but not judge things too early. Imagine if TNG was judged by just its first four episodes....
That's odd, as an avid Trekker, I loved Discovery and was bored to tears with Voyager. Imagine that.
@@k1productions87 *" Imagine if TNG was judged by just its first four episodes."*
Actually, it was. lol.
I distinctly remember arguing (rather heartily) with other Trek fans who hated TNG early on because "Picard was nothing like Kirk!", etc. which, I tried to point out without much success, was the entire point.
We just have to accept that these fans simply want a continuation of their favorite previous show, and nothing more. On the other hand, the same friends, years later, tried to claim they "loved" TNG from the start. lol.
@@michaeldobson107 Ditto. I mean, there are plenty of things I would change, or would have done differently. I suppose the better way of putting it is to say I don't hate it. But I do also see clear improvement in season 2, to an even greater degree than TNG's season 2 improvement (save for a couple specific episodes)
@@k1productions87 Can't fault that, but can't this be said of any show or movie? No one makes the "perfect" series or film that garners 100% approval in every aspect.
However, as a whole, and looking at this as simply escapism entertainment, I think they've done as good a job as with any previous series.
And as you've pointed out, it is still early on in the series, with much room for improvement available.
Anson Mount's portrayal of Captain Pike and Ethan Peck's portrayal of Spock were certainly high points in my estimation.
Looking forward to "Strange New Worlds" with great apprehension. lol.
"I figured we would get cancelled for sure after that" Brent Spiner speaking of "A Matter Of Honor".
Do you mean "Code of Honour"?
Discovery works if you imagine it takes place in a parallel continuity, similar to the Kelvin Timeline. There are so many possibilities to make that canon, so hopefully the powers-that-be can make it so!
Discovery is a prequel to Andromeda. It even looks like the same bridge.
The biggest red flag for Mr was the way true characters acted in S1 of Discovery. The only crewperson who even tried to get along with everybody was Tilly... Everyone else seemed to actively hate each other. I even started to think that D1 was completely set in then mirror unibrtse, which would also explain why all the tech was so different.
Thank God for Tilly... She was one of my biggest reasons to keep watching.
@ 4:21 I used to come home from school and watch re-runs.
You know what Star Trek could use right about now? A proper, Mass Effect-caliber (the first two) video game. It doesn't even have to be a shooter, could just be you managing a network of starbases and diplomatic relations with the other alien species while making contacts with new ones. Man, to be in the shoes of Mr. Spock, or Captain Picard or - if you're feeling a little adventurous - Commander Riker...
Definitely wanna see a good Star Trek game. I mean, some of the indie stuff we have comes kinda close, like FTL, Artemis and Pulsar: Lost Colony, but outside of that, there doesn't seem to be a game that truly captures the essence of Trek.
Star Trek Online
Is there something missing at #5? Seems to me like the point was announced and then it just cut to the last sentence of it...
Well done. I like this.
I'm trying to understand something, so the ratings tank and the show is set up to be canceled, the fans write a bunch of letters and keep the show going but still the ratings tank .
It is a conundrum that something could be considered so popular yet no one wanted to watch it in enough viewership as to keep it from getting canceled !
Don't forget that Discovery has only had about 1 seasons worth of episodes to find it's footing.... and it did.
It's been a long road getting from there to here....
I was one of those misguided fans who didn't like TNG when it first came out because it "paled" in comparison to Kirk and crew. The turning point for me was the death of Tasha Yar. These days I know the truth behind the decision, but back then I thought it was the gutsiest move I'd ever seen. Redshirts had died all the time, but TOS never had the balls to murder a member of the bridge crew! I remember thinking, "Oh yeah, the doc will bring her back." But then there was a funeral and the next episode she was gone-gone. At that point I had every confidence in the new show and was a fan from then on out.
Fair play mate. Knocking them out!
Another thing that wasn't mentioned when talking about the power of Trekkies; Star Trek Fans got NASA to name the first prototype space shuttle "Enterprise". Now THAT is a powerfull Fandom at work.
There's actually an explanation about the Captain Pike piolet episode. My dad told me, given he grew up with the original series, that the actor's wife didn't want him to be a TV actor but a movie actor, and the type of wife he had back then, that poor boy was whipped until there were only bones left...no pun intended. I think she was also a gold-digger if I remember the story correctly. Feel free to add or fix if I got something wrong or missing.
You missed the Animated Series in your timeline.
Also, Star Trek Beyond should be in there somewhere because, atm we are still without any solid plans for another Kelvin Timeline film.
Yeah, Beyond performed well under the previous two films. Not fully clear as to why. I think a lot of people were hoping they would shake things up with the 3rd movie (I was), but when they played it safe for a third time in a row, it just made it far less interesting to people.
Beyond was a good movie IMO
Let’s be honest… most of the people that don’t/didn’t like Discovery because of the Captain. We’re all aware of how a particular group of people will get mad every time they see someone like her in command, or maybe it was just a coincidence that the 1st Star Trek show I heard people getting upset about was Deep Space 9.
_The Motionless Picture_
I've heard it called _The Slow-Motion Picture_ myself.
Star Trek the Motionless Picture. Good one. My personal take on the first Star Trek movie was that it was a good 1 hour star trek t v episode crammed into a 2 hour movie.
#11: Star Trek Fleet Command mobile ad I got at the start
If it wasn't for Lucille Ball we wouldn't have Star Trek. The actress and her studio helped bring The Original Series to life.
2:33 foreshadowing
Star Trek was not doing well after its first season, that it nearly got cancelled even then. But the one who kept it on the air was of all people... Lucile Ball. The show was shot at DesiLu Studios after all.
Star Trek has been dead since Enterprise ended.
The francise is now in the hands of people that don't give a damn about the show.
Been a Trek fan from age 5. I'm 40 now. I feel ya man. I feel ya. The name "Star Trek" lives on, but its soul is gone.
@@Spotcats cheers man. My dad grew up watching TOS. I grew up watching TNG which has shaped who I am. I now have a young son who has been denied that same experience.
However, we still have those originals, they can't be taken away.
I still watch them and will introduce them to my lad when he's old enough.
i actually grew up watching the original series when it first aired...and each subsequent series after, up thru enterprise...and i couldn't agree more....
Watch the fan shows on RUclips such as Star Trek continues, and obviously Orville
@@vdkotecha Star Trek Continues has great production value, however, the writing tended to be VERY sanctimonious. A little to preachy for my taste. Also.. chick with big boobs gets the job. lol If you've seen them, you know what I'm talkin about. :D
can u made one about 10 moments that saved Star Trek?
I didn't liked Discovery in the beginning, but changed my opinion during the show course. Now i really appreciate. Picard is opposite, i had high hopes in the beginning, and first few episodes seemed to deliver, then all came crashing down.
Please be Clery, please be Clery, please by Clery.......... dang it
Hahahahha was just thinking the same thing...
Wait, you failed to mention the moment when Kurtzman took over Star Trek and pretty much ran it into the ground.
And they announce Strange New Worlds practically the minute this goes up.
A very clear moment that almost destroyed Star Trek was the launch of Voyager back in 1995. Fans were outraged over the dire quality of this series and remained that way for most (if not all) of its run. A dramatic decline in ratings underscored the feelings of aborrence inspired by Star Trek: Voyager. And unlike what is often claimed regarding the addition of Jeri Ryan's character Seven Of Nine to the crew, this only led to a temporary resurgence of interest. The ratings decline soon continued and the show remained a dismal failure for the rest of its undeserved runtime. During those years (1995-2001) literally 70-80% of the fanbase that Star Trek: The Next Generation had upon its finale in 1994 turned their backs on Star Trek.
Did you forget Majel Barret later to become Gene Roddenberry's wife who starred as number one in the Cage nurse Chapel in the original TV series doctor Chapel in a movie. Luaxana Troi in TNG and DS9 and the computers voice in TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
Her character in the pilot never reappears. It was then brought back for Discovery.. sort of, but she never played that character again.
"Luckily... Gene Roddenberry really loved Star Trek and just couldn't let it lie." Gene Roddenberry had abandoned the show after Season 2 and had gone on to other projects. It was just a TV show to him; it didn't become his "vision for the future" until commentators dubbed it that after the fact, and he bought into the hype.
Also, the show went into reruns because a distributor had committed to it before its run was over. Had that syndicator not done so, Star Trek's 79 episodes would have been too few for syndication (the standard minimum number was 100 episodes) and Trek would have disappeared forever.
As for Enterprise never losing "it's wobbliness," the show had found its way by the third season. It was canceled because Leslie Moonves, the president of CBS, hated science fiction and wanted it canceled.
Correction: the future of Star Trek was NOT in doubt after The Motion Picture. Pacing and art direction criticisms aside, the film was a major commercial success for Paramount, earning millions, and guaranteed the future of the franchise. If it weren't for The Motion Picture, there wouldn't have been a Wrath of Khan, Next Generation, or any other films and shows.
Didn't mentions JJ Abrams trashing the mythos; STAR TREK discovery carrying on with his mistakes (Klingon make-up, spacious spaceships)
Dude!Five commercial breaks in 12 minutes is killing us!I love your work but that's waaaay TOO MUCH!I can't subscribe under these considerations!Nothing but love for you brother!
Enterprise improved for season three and four and in fact ratings were better for season four but the network system basically caused the series to end. It sounded like they were cancellling Enterprise no matter what at the end of season four, even though ratings improved.
The first movie is my favorite. It's not plodding or motionless, it's cerebral. A good thing...
"In season 2 Discovery became Star Trek"....nahhhh.
No, I tend to agree. In S2 it got much better, and in S3 a bit better still.
We must be allowed to change, allowed to fail, allowed to try new things. Anything less is indistinguishable from the death of self.
I remember how I heard about Discovery. I ran across a RUclips comment saying the new show was terrible and a betrayal of the 'true' fans in favour of SJWs. This was before any cast had been announced.
It was the same shit I heard about voyager and DS9. The lead wasn't a white guy? It's pandering g to the PC brigade!
Every Trek has added something new and it takes several episodes, even a few seasons, for the foundations to set in place and greatness to begin.
@@AnonEyeMouse That's bunk. I remember the development of DS9 and Voyager, and watched both series as they aired -- there wasn't any "PC" talk -- except now, from people trying to claim there was PC talk that never actually happened. No one objected to Sisko being black or Janeway being a woman; far from it, both shows were praised for breaking new ground.
The problems with Discovery are so multifarious as to boggle the mind, but the PC elements of the show are ridiculously overwrought. Alex Kurtzman has admitted openly that the storytelling is a mere vehicle for advancing a social agenda, something that Star Trek never was meant to be. Add to that the reliance on cheap melodrama, the show being basically The Michael Burnham Drama Hour -- she cries two to three times in virtually every episode -- and the retconning of the franchise canon, and you end up with the pile of dreck that is Discovery. The writing alone is laughably bad, not to mention Sonequa Martin-Green's histrionic acting. The only thing the show has going for it are the visuals and the name of Star Trek.
The idea that Enterprise took place on the holodeck was sheer laziness.
It took me a long time to get used to the characters in TNG.
My issue with Discovery isn’t so much it being “gritty”, but rather because it’s just constant drama trying desperately to tug at your heart strings that could be part of any generic franchise (or soap opera for that matter) and all that made it Trek was the visual effects. Just like the Kelvin timeline reboot of the movies. It’s just an action adventure that happens to be in space.
Star Trek: Picard, however, is a completely different ball game. Not sure if I’m going to bother with any further series of Discovery, but I will definitely watch the next series of Picard.
I feel like Discovery series 1 was written with it failing to launch a second in mind, plot seemed to be very epic, cram a lot of plot lines in and didn't do a huge amount of character development outside of Michael Burnham. You can see with series 2 they tried to do more to set up where the show would be going, Saru becoming more assertive, Tilly being fully recognised for her genius, bringing back Doctor Culber, then of course the massive retcon at the end, and how could I forget giving the bridge crew a little expansion. I liked series 2 better, at least it was something a bit different instead of Klingons again, and hopefully the 3rd will carry this trend.
Basically all the new trek shows you said should be number 1-4