I'd actually argue that A Hat In Time pushes the 3D Platformer in a few of the same directions Mario Odyssey does. Like Mario Odyssey it made the collectables into currency with intrinsic value, which Kaerlev said in an interview was very intentional, as forced collectables for progress can get frustrating. Also like Mario Odyssey, it incorporates the ability to chain jumps in the air. This is important, because it increases the skill cap in the genre, as you now must not only be aware of your timing on the ground, but also your timing midair, such that you chain your jumps with perfect timing.
Collectathon = Banjo Kazooie, Yooka Laylee, Mario Odyssey (to a lesser extent) 3D Platformer = Lucky's Tale, A Hat In Time, Mario 64/Sunshine I have to make this distinction because I do not like Collectathons, but I love 3D Platformers.
You showed up in my youtube recommendation list, and I'm so glad you did! I really have enjoyed marathoning some of your videos and hearing your analysis! As someone who wants to do game analysis videos too, I can see how I can continue to refine what I say. I hope your channel continues to grow! Keep up the awesome work. :)
It's funny hearing you and then Snoman talk in this video, you have a great voice, but Snoman sounds a lot more energetic. It didn't bother me that you talk more laid-back. In fact, I do kind of like your style. Thank you for your perspective on modern collectathon-entrys. I subscribed to your channel and will be back for other interesting topics. Until then, have a great day!
In the Yooka-Laylee segment, I'm missing a lot of context on how the game works, because I didn't play it, and you didn't provide it. It would have been helpful if you explained what "expanding the world" meant, and why there's an obligation to do them a certain way. The section on notes vs quills is a good observation. It would have been helpful if you explained the resource meter on the roll. Is it a stamina meter? Do you need to pick things up to refill it? How much gets refilled? Is there possibly a purpose for it being a resource? Remember that people watching your videos may not have played all the games in question. I think it's weird to say that snakepass is the next step forward, it seems like a niche. Also think your explanation of it is lacking in detail and is just vague praise. For that matter, in all the games you talked about here, you didn't talk about their design much. You didn't explain how the mechanics worked in any of them, you didn't talk about their level design, and you didn't build from those an idea of how the game plays or what it does differently from the others. Hat in Time, Yooka Laylee, and Mario Odyssey might well be practically identical just going by this video. Saying, "Every mission feels special and unique" about hatgirl is probably the most filler sentence you can possibly add to a video. You could probably explain twice as much as this video in half the time if you cut out all the filler. Try actually talking about the design rather than the circumstances under which these games came out, how charming they are, what bold innovations they are. Point out something I (and your viewers) don't know already. Point out something that conveys that you actually played these games instead of just watching a lets play of them, because honestly, you could have done the mario odyssey section in the same amount of detail as the others by watching a lets play. AGH, SNOMAN. Okay, quit the video, reported for terrorism.
I do agree, when it comes to more modern games, even if they are a year old, there really should be a better explanation for those who haven't played it. I get that sometimes a youtuber expects you to have seen their previous videos. But any video could be a viewer's first.
JAKZILLASAURUS See that red ball over there? And when I say red I actually mean yellow. See it? It's red. Look for the red thing. Why would this ever be confusing or annoying?
@JAKZILLASAURAS Calling MAJOR BULLSHIT on your last claim. The vast majority of 3D platformers are not collectathons. Every 3D Sonic of the past decade and most before then, Mario 3D World and Land, every Crash Bandicoot, arguably Mario Galaxy (especially 2), Mirror's Edge, Blinx, Croc, Chameleon Twist, even some of the Bomberman games, and the list goes on. You can count the number of 3D collectathons on your fingers and toes. The purest form of 3D platformer should resemble the purest form of 2D platformer, but 3D. Ergo stuff like 3D World. It's a platformer with 3D in the title. Can't get much more 3D platformer than that. Think of it this way. Platformers are fruit, collectathons are apples. Apples are definitely fruit, but saying the vast majority of fruit are apples, or that only apples are fruit is just plain incorrect.
Okay, but that's still wrong though. First, most of my examples were from around the so called golden age of collectathons, aka the fifth console generation, for a reason. Even back then the more linear 3D platformers out numbered the collectathons, in number of titles and sum total sales of those titles. There were like five collectathons back then and dozens of other 3D platformers. Of the collectathons only SM64 (successor to then best-selling-game-of-all-time SMB) was able to outsell any of the three main series Crash games; Banjo and DK couldn't even come close. Second, that's not how history works. You can't ignore things because you don't like them or weren't previously aware of them. It doesn't matter if we think most of the 3D Sonics sucked. They were still platformers. They still count. Dude, you were objectively wrong about some stuff and I called you out on it. Just admit it. The only time collectathons could be considered the majority of 3D platformers was in the late '90s if you ignore the majority of the console market and only look at the N64. And even then I doubt that's true when we're just talking number of titles. Because you referred to it as the 64bit era, I assume you were an N64 kid, or at least are getting your info from N64 kids. I know it feels like collectathons were the whole world back then, but the data doesn't back that up. That's nostalgia. So stop using the term fruit to exclusively talk about apples. It's confusing. And it disrespects all the other fruits like oranges and bananas. P.S. The 64bit era just started, back then it was still the 32bit era. There's a reason the convention is to refer to console generations and not bits. Bits were a marketing gimmick started by Sega. The N64 wasn't actually 64bit, and neither was the Atari Jaguar despite what the ads said.
First Person Explorer/Walker is a term you can use to descrive them, though it doesn't cover all these games and isn't a popular term. But yes, it's really annoying than a genre this good has a completely derogatory name invented by people who barely played one of these game. Not only that but as Jelani says a Walking Simulator is rarely a game about walking, in fact most of the action games have a "deeper" walking mechanics than for example Gone Home, it makes more sense to call Mario a "Jumping Simulator", all the games is built around the mechanic of jumping (most of them) than calling Proteus a "Walking Simulator". Just to clarify, with that I don't mean that I want Mario games (or other platformers) to be called Jumping Simulators, I just want people to stop mocking genres they don't like.
Ciber I completely agree! Just like if someone called Nioh DarkSoulsEsque, as a descriptive term, it's fair and useful. But if someone described Cuphead as DarkSoulsEsque, it's useless and lazy.
Honestly A Hat in Time blows the pants off Mario odyssey, for me at least. I honestly have forgotten most parts of odyssey and I only played it a few months ago. I played A Hat in Time years ago and I remember almost everything. Also it just feels great to play.
There's one 3D platformer that you miss(not that improves The genre i was Just expecting a mention) Sonic Forces: and The Fact that fãs humiliate a big company
"Odyssey is a wild ride with no sign of slowing down?" No way. Odyssey is a boring, often tedious game where you spend over a literal hour watching the same animation (ruclips.net/video/wmDs_fuVi2c/видео.html), and whose level design is inferior to every other 3d mario. Joseph Anderson did a great video pointing out how really uninspired so much of Odyssey is: ruclips.net/video/kYJx5xt2cB0/видео.html
While this might be outside the scope of the video, what annoyed me about Odyssey is how refined 3D Mario became to almost the point of boredom. After my fifteen hours with the main story were finished with a grin on my face, I've just been left underwhelmed since. In comparison to BotW which turned the Zelda formula upside-down, Odyssey really is 64 with modern flourishes. I've never seen Nintendo capitalize on nostalgia in a way it takes advantage of after the end of game, but I feel like it's the only way Nintendo was able to make it peak past previous Mario entries. While I'd like to see a reimagining of Mario like with BotW, I'm afraid that Mario being so established means that Nintendo is going to make the series burn out. Or, there's always the possibility that my tastes lead me elsewhere.
I'd love to see someone build upon what Kingdom Hearts 1 did, an action-rpg with expansive sandbox platforming environments that has all but gone away with future KH games.
Unfortunately, tying growth movement abilities to leveling Drive forms in KH2 spelled the end of environments designed to utilize those abilities as they were all optional. Regular Pat, a KH content creator here on YT, had a suggestion instead to give the player the first level of all the abilities and design around *that* like in KH2 Final Mix's Cave of Remembrance, with the upgrades being optional and obviously making the platforming easier if invested in.
That would be awesome! I really enjoyed KH1 and was disappointed with some of the changes made in KH2 despite how beloved it is. Action RPG sandbox 3D platformer sounds like my dream genre lol.
I wholeheartedly agree with modding support being a major plus rather than a relatively minor one like it is in a lot of games. Even if we were to limit the discussion to mods that add Death Wish challenges (which would ignore a plethora of level, aesthetic, and functionality mods), it's still a very long list! I've actually compiled the mods with Death Wishes on a Steam Forum Page, simply titled Death Wish Mods. Wouldn't have nearly as much if others haven't been alerting me to new mods to add to the list though! Heck, some of the contributors actually made their OWN mods!
Let's be honest. Platforming is a natural extension of what a person from a 3D world would want to do inside of a virtual 3D world. In real life, we want to run, jump, and scale all the things around us, but are afraid of the consequences of making a mistake. Platformers, when implemented with smooth camera and controls offer us that freedom. Platformers will only get better as time goes on, and as Snake Pass and Mario Odyssey display, there are all different kinds of platforming methods. This will no doubt get more interesting and deep as time goes on. The important take-away though, we don't want to run and jump to collect stuff. We want to run and jump because it is fun. Collectathons will not necessarily be a primary element of future platformers. Movement and the experience it gives... now that is what we truly want.
I feel like the Mirror's Edge games(mostly the first) showed the potential of those kind of 3D Platformers, but seem to be missing something I can't quite put my finger on...
A platformer with no jumping is unorthodox, but Bionic Commando pulled it off in 2D back in the day. Also: Hat Girl? Isn't she usually called Hat *Kid*?
Disagree about hat in time. I really wanted to play it a few years ago because there were no 3d platformers. This year it came out right after yooka laylee and snake pass so I didn't really want to play another one.
If you haven't played it yet, I would heavily advise doing so. It is much better than Yooka Laylee, and in my opinion better than Odyssey as well. It is a decent amount shorter than those two, but in being that way it keeps everything fresh, memorable, and unique.
@@TheShangryLlamas if it didn't have mods I.... Well I would still barely rank it over mario odyssey without mods, but with mods Hat in Time wins for me, no competition
This may be stupid but like games like Ratchet and Clank (the earlier ones) and Spyro. They aren’t collectathons - they have collecting aspects, but they are still 3D platformers right?
I know I'm gonna get sass for this but where are Crash and Sonic? You jump, run around and collect things in a 3D space and they're in the platformer genre.
And 3D platformer was synonymous with collectathon when it's 1999 and you only own an N64. Which is apparently where HeavyEyed and a ton of commenters are stuck.
Gosh, this year was just amazing for 3D platformers, although I would say Odyssey is mediocre, sorry snowmaN ;) You did a great job brushing over each game, although talking about 4 games within a 12 minute time slot doesn't really allow for any sort of expounding on ideas, views, reasons, etc. Although I am hoping Snake Pass goes on a good sale at some point so I can grab it.
I'm actually working on explaining myself, which will take a few hours of video to do so, so I'm afraid talking about it here wouldn't do it justice, especially given how seemingly unconventional my views are.
I really enjoyed this vid. Good idea to look at all the 3D platformer games that came out this year! I will say I think you could've spent more time talking about Hat in Time, but it was still great despite that!
Crash is alright, but it's the same games that were released 20 years ago when the genre was in its infancy. Warts and all. Not really a good topic for a video titled "MODERN design of 3D Platformers". There's nothing Super Lucky Tale did that could be compared to Mario 3D/Land World years ago. It's not bad but it doesn't innovate either. Sonic Forces is an inferior take on the same concept of a game released six years before it. And roughly 70% of the game is 2D anyway.
@@HeavyEyed I just found your channel. I thought I'd watch all your videos since I enjoyed one of them. If I didn't, I might miss out on some good content.
@HeavyEyed & @Snoman Gaming: Great video! There's only one thing that I don't like and that is the change in style for Super Mario Odyssey. Sure, different people have different styles and that's fair, but Snoman didn't name a single criticism of Odyssey, whole HeavyEyed provided a deeper analysis and comparison for every other game with pros and cons. How about having so many Moons just lying around or given for ground pounding a glowing part, that a Moon doesn't feel rewarding anymore? There's no challenge to overcome, so the prize is flawed. Which doesn't make sense, when you already have 2 different currencies that are just lying around to be picked up when passing by. Compare that to older Mario games where collectables where distinct from one another, hidden behind challenges and therefore more valuable. Like (starting from easiest to hardest) having regular coins, colored or dragon coins, one ups and finally stars. Or criticize how one dimensional most 'cap-tures', which are just a fancier version of regular transformation power-ups to begin with, actually are, because of their very limited movement system and the things you can actually do with them. Or how bland the world design is for the most, especially when compared with a game like A Hat In Time. For a game that's so heavily praised for it's creativity, I would argue that creativity and challenge is actually what's missing from Super Mario Odyssey. And I'm not talking about difficulty here, I mean just challenge in general. Especially the movement system and camera is amazing and it's a good foundation for a hopefully better second part.
Ok, here's a thought... What about a collect-o-thon platformer where you don't actually collect anything (with the possible exception of "breadcrumbs" like Banjo's music notes and Spyro's gems) and with very few actual platforms, but the gameplay still revolves around maneuverability and navigation in other ways? It's on my to-do list. I'm currently taking Unreal Engine tutorials to serve this very purpose.
I bought Yooka on release day, and within 2 hours I was back on steam requesting a refund. The game had a terrible start with stupid annoying characters forcing a non-existent story, then when I finally got to play, the wobble flop camera with a mind of its own was unplayable. Mario odyssey is pretty good, but a bit over hyped. Mario is a true joy to control, but I felt the levels were a bit hit or miss. I've only just started A Hat in Time, but so far it's been good.
I wanted a refund before I even started playing because it was said I could change the edition of my game for free once they released the console versions (I kickstarted it with the PC Deluxe Edition) but as soon as they let you switch it would have cost me an extra $10. So now I'm stuck with a DIGITAL ART BOOK. They were very strict on not giving refunds for any reason though. This compounded even more when my friend and I tried to play the $200,000 stretch goal co-op mode and it turned out he was just flying a bunch of bees around and could barely do anything. That's all they could come up with for $200,000. Not to mention the JonTron fiasco.
I'd actually argue that A Hat In Time pushes the 3D Platformer in a few of the same directions Mario Odyssey does.
Like Mario Odyssey it made the collectables into currency with intrinsic value, which Kaerlev said in an interview was very intentional, as forced collectables for progress can get frustrating.
Also like Mario Odyssey, it incorporates the ability to chain jumps in the air. This is important, because it increases the skill cap in the genre, as you now must not only be aware of your timing on the ground, but also your timing midair, such that you chain your jumps with perfect timing.
Yooka laylees controls are fun gimme more 3d platformers please I love them
Collectathon = Banjo Kazooie, Yooka Laylee, Mario Odyssey (to a lesser extent)
3D Platformer = Lucky's Tale, A Hat In Time, Mario 64/Sunshine
I have to make this distinction because I do not like Collectathons, but I love 3D Platformers.
Snake pass has one power up that makes noodle the snake longer
You showed up in my youtube recommendation list, and I'm so glad you did! I really have enjoyed marathoning some of your videos and hearing your analysis! As someone who wants to do game analysis videos too, I can see how I can continue to refine what I say. I hope your channel continues to grow! Keep up the awesome work. :)
Thanks so much for the kind words! I hope your journey into game analysis goes well
It's funny hearing you and then Snoman talk in this video, you have a great voice, but Snoman sounds a lot more energetic. It didn't bother me that you talk more laid-back. In fact, I do kind of like your style. Thank you for your perspective on modern collectathon-entrys. I subscribed to your channel and will be back for other interesting topics. Until then, have a great day!
"So I'll let my friend Snowman talk about it.." "HI I'M AMERICAN BWARRRGGHHHH"
Excellent work as always. Guess I need to play A Hat in Time.
Just because Nintendo skipped making a collectathon Mario for 1 generation doesnt mean that the genre died in that time.
Mario 64 is considered a collectathon game.
Excellent video Mitch. I really need to get Hat In Time and Snake Pass sometime soon.
Snake Pass really looks cool! I think I will get it.
In the Yooka-Laylee segment, I'm missing a lot of context on how the game works, because I didn't play it, and you didn't provide it. It would have been helpful if you explained what "expanding the world" meant, and why there's an obligation to do them a certain way. The section on notes vs quills is a good observation. It would have been helpful if you explained the resource meter on the roll. Is it a stamina meter? Do you need to pick things up to refill it? How much gets refilled? Is there possibly a purpose for it being a resource?
Remember that people watching your videos may not have played all the games in question.
I think it's weird to say that snakepass is the next step forward, it seems like a niche. Also think your explanation of it is lacking in detail and is just vague praise. For that matter, in all the games you talked about here, you didn't talk about their design much. You didn't explain how the mechanics worked in any of them, you didn't talk about their level design, and you didn't build from those an idea of how the game plays or what it does differently from the others. Hat in Time, Yooka Laylee, and Mario Odyssey might well be practically identical just going by this video.
Saying, "Every mission feels special and unique" about hatgirl is probably the most filler sentence you can possibly add to a video. You could probably explain twice as much as this video in half the time if you cut out all the filler. Try actually talking about the design rather than the circumstances under which these games came out, how charming they are, what bold innovations they are. Point out something I (and your viewers) don't know already. Point out something that conveys that you actually played these games instead of just watching a lets play of them, because honestly, you could have done the mario odyssey section in the same amount of detail as the others by watching a lets play.
AGH, SNOMAN. Okay, quit the video, reported for terrorism.
I do agree, when it comes to more modern games, even if they are a year old, there really should be a better explanation for those who haven't played it.
I get that sometimes a youtuber expects you to have seen their previous videos. But any video could be a viewer's first.
Okay
If it weren't for nier automata existing a hat in time would be my game of the year
Really enjoyed the video!
People call these games "collectathons"?
Are you serious?
JAKZILLASAURUS See that red ball over there? And when I say red I actually mean yellow. See it? It's red. Look for the red thing. Why would this ever be confusing or annoying?
@JAKZILLASAURAS Calling MAJOR BULLSHIT on your last claim.
The vast majority of 3D platformers are not collectathons. Every 3D Sonic of the past decade and most before then, Mario 3D World and Land, every Crash Bandicoot, arguably Mario Galaxy (especially 2), Mirror's Edge, Blinx, Croc, Chameleon Twist, even some of the Bomberman games, and the list goes on. You can count the number of 3D collectathons on your fingers and toes. The purest form of 3D platformer should resemble the purest form of 2D platformer, but 3D. Ergo stuff like 3D World. It's a platformer with 3D in the title. Can't get much more 3D platformer than that.
Think of it this way. Platformers are fruit, collectathons are apples. Apples are definitely fruit, but saying the vast majority of fruit are apples, or that only apples are fruit is just plain incorrect.
Okay, but that's still wrong though.
First, most of my examples were from around the so called golden age of collectathons, aka the fifth console generation, for a reason. Even back then the more linear 3D platformers out numbered the collectathons, in number of titles and sum total sales of those titles. There were like five collectathons back then and dozens of other 3D platformers. Of the collectathons only SM64 (successor to then best-selling-game-of-all-time SMB) was able to outsell any of the three main series Crash games; Banjo and DK couldn't even come close. Second, that's not how history works. You can't ignore things because you don't like them or weren't previously aware of them. It doesn't matter if we think most of the 3D Sonics sucked. They were still platformers. They still count.
Dude, you were objectively wrong about some stuff and I called you out on it. Just admit it.
The only time collectathons could be considered the majority of 3D platformers was in the late '90s if you ignore the majority of the console market and only look at the N64. And even then I doubt that's true when we're just talking number of titles. Because you referred to it as the 64bit era, I assume you were an N64 kid, or at least are getting your info from N64 kids. I know it feels like collectathons were the whole world back then, but the data doesn't back that up. That's nostalgia.
So stop using the term fruit to exclusively talk about apples. It's confusing. And it disrespects all the other fruits like oranges and bananas.
P.S. The 64bit era just started, back then it was still the 32bit era. There's a reason the convention is to refer to console generations and not bits. Bits were a marketing gimmick started by Sega. The N64 wasn't actually 64bit, and neither was the Atari Jaguar despite what the ads said.
thanks_for_the_video
Unrelated, but; The only video game classification that annoys me is 'walking simulator', as I feel it is seems to disregard a genre I love so much.
Tori Ko especially since those games are about everything except movement
Jelani Stowers agreed!
First Person Explorer/Walker is a term you can use to descrive them, though it doesn't cover all these games and isn't a popular term.
But yes, it's really annoying than a genre this good has a completely derogatory name invented by people who barely played one of these game.
Not only that but as Jelani says a Walking Simulator is rarely a game about walking, in fact most of the action games have a "deeper" walking mechanics than for example Gone Home, it makes more sense to call Mario a "Jumping Simulator", all the games is built around the mechanic of jumping (most of them) than calling Proteus a "Walking Simulator".
Just to clarify, with that I don't mean that I want Mario games (or other platformers) to be called Jumping Simulators, I just want people to stop mocking genres they don't like.
Ciber I completely agree! Just like if someone called Nioh DarkSoulsEsque, as a descriptive term, it's fair and useful. But if someone described Cuphead as DarkSoulsEsque, it's useless and lazy.
Anyone else here from Joseph Anderson?
I loved Yooka laylee. I thought it was a good spiritual successorx
Honestly A Hat in Time blows the pants off Mario odyssey, for me at least. I honestly have forgotten most parts of odyssey and I only played it a few months ago. I played A Hat in Time years ago and I remember almost everything. Also it just feels great to play.
I remember every World and character in Mario Odyssey. Probably because I have the art book of Mario Odyssey. I haven’t played Hat in Time though.
But you‘re right… Collectathons don‘t have to be platformers, let alone 3D. Collectathons are just games where you collect (for example BotW)
Once I become a Gaming Developer,I am thinking of making a 3d platformer.
Start now or it'll never happen.
A hat in time look ugly in your video. Low quality settings?
Psychonauts is better
There's one 3D platformer that you miss(not that improves The genre i was Just expecting a mention) Sonic Forces: and The Fact that fãs humiliate a big company
it not really a 3D platformer
Pixel Productions why????
Cause all the Platforming is 2D
"Odyssey is a wild ride with no sign of slowing down?" No way. Odyssey is a boring, often tedious game where you spend over a literal hour watching the same animation (ruclips.net/video/wmDs_fuVi2c/видео.html), and whose level design is inferior to every other 3d mario. Joseph Anderson did a great video pointing out how really uninspired so much of Odyssey is: ruclips.net/video/kYJx5xt2cB0/видео.html
Honestly I disagree with Joseph Andrew.
@@traviscunningham7062 My opinion on him has somewhat evolved in the last three literal years. I don't know how well that point holds up today.
While this might be outside the scope of the video, what annoyed me about Odyssey is how refined 3D Mario became to almost the point of boredom. After my fifteen hours with the main story were finished with a grin on my face, I've just been left underwhelmed since. In comparison to BotW which turned the Zelda formula upside-down, Odyssey really is 64 with modern flourishes. I've never seen Nintendo capitalize on nostalgia in a way it takes advantage of after the end of game, but I feel like it's the only way Nintendo was able to make it peak past previous Mario entries. While I'd like to see a reimagining of Mario like with BotW, I'm afraid that Mario being so established means that Nintendo is going to make the series burn out. Or, there's always the possibility that my tastes lead me elsewhere.
I'd love to see someone build upon what Kingdom Hearts 1 did, an action-rpg with expansive sandbox platforming environments that has all but gone away with future KH games.
Unfortunately, tying growth movement abilities to leveling Drive forms in KH2 spelled the end of environments designed to utilize those abilities as they were all optional. Regular Pat, a KH content creator here on YT, had a suggestion instead to give the player the first level of all the abilities and design around *that* like in KH2 Final Mix's Cave of Remembrance, with the upgrades being optional and obviously making the platforming easier if invested in.
That would be awesome! I really enjoyed KH1 and was disappointed with some of the changes made in KH2 despite how beloved it is. Action RPG sandbox 3D platformer sounds like my dream genre lol.
A Hat in Time is the best one because of modding support on PC. People including myself are making great content with the useful engine provided c:
FlameLFH i haven't made it very far in the game because ive been distracted by all the mods
Ok you just convinced me to get the game
I wholeheartedly agree with modding support being a major plus rather than a relatively minor one like it is in a lot of games. Even if we were to limit the discussion to mods that add Death Wish challenges (which would ignore a plethora of level, aesthetic, and functionality mods), it's still a very long list!
I've actually compiled the mods with Death Wishes on a Steam Forum Page, simply titled Death Wish Mods. Wouldn't have nearly as much if others haven't been alerting me to new mods to add to the list though! Heck, some of the contributors actually made their OWN mods!
Oh it's you again
@@ShadwSonic I should check that out, thank you!
Wouldn't 2017 be "the year of the return of 3D platformers" it would make more sense.
Let's be honest. Platforming is a natural extension of what a person from a 3D world would want to do inside of a virtual 3D world. In real life, we want to run, jump, and scale all the things around us, but are afraid of the consequences of making a mistake. Platformers, when implemented with smooth camera and controls offer us that freedom. Platformers will only get better as time goes on, and as Snake Pass and Mario Odyssey display, there are all different kinds of platforming methods. This will no doubt get more interesting and deep as time goes on.
The important take-away though, we don't want to run and jump to collect stuff. We want to run and jump because it is fun. Collectathons will not necessarily be a primary element of future platformers. Movement and the experience it gives... now that is what we truly want.
I feel like the Mirror's Edge games(mostly the first) showed the potential of those kind of 3D Platformers, but seem to be missing something I can't quite put my finger on...
snake pass is very very underrated :(
Super Lucky's tale just didn't make the list.
Jelani Stowers That game would be good if they let us move the camera.
Man... someone should make a Hat in Time vs. Mario Odyssey style video.
They both are collectathons
They both center around hats
They were both released in 2017
A platformer with no jumping is unorthodox, but Bionic Commando pulled it off in 2D back in the day.
Also: Hat Girl? Isn't she usually called Hat *Kid*?
well, i've only ever seen her get called 𝘏𝘢𝘵 𝘎𝘪𝘳𝘭
Hard disagree that every game needs innovation. Polish is far more important.
I’m gonna be honest. You can’t do a video on modern 3D platformer design if you haven’t played Super Mario Odyssey.
r/gatekeeping
@@ohnoknux4163 R/IHaveReddit
Green Cappy looking back I fucking was a redditor lmao I'm pathetic
Well, you know, that’s just like, your opinion, man.
Yay more praise for the 750 copy paste moon with the rest being ok- ok that was kinda cool. Btw why are the walljumps almost useless?
Yeah, what a useless piece of criticism
I'd really like to hear your thoughts on Odyssey when you get to play it!
Disagree about hat in time. I really wanted to play it a few years ago because there were no 3d platformers. This year it came out right after yooka laylee and snake pass so I didn't really want to play another one.
I agree, it's unfortunate that it came out so close to (arguably) better games like Mario Odyssey and Yooka Laylee
If you haven't played it yet, I would heavily advise doing so. It is much better than Yooka Laylee, and in my opinion better than Odyssey as well. It is a decent amount shorter than those two, but in being that way it keeps everything fresh, memorable, and unique.
@@TheShangryLlamas if it didn't have mods I.... Well I would still barely rank it over mario odyssey without mods, but with mods Hat in Time wins for me, no competition
This may be stupid but like games like Ratchet and Clank (the earlier ones) and Spyro. They aren’t collectathons - they have collecting aspects, but they are still 3D platformers right?
Those are more like Action Adventure games because platforming isn't the main focus, it's the action.
I know I'm gonna get sass for this but where are Crash and Sonic? You jump, run around and collect things in a 3D space and they're in the platformer genre.
Whitney Asante They’re more pure 3D platformers. These are collectathons. Well, Sonic isn’t really a platformer, it’s kind of an action platformer.
Sonic is more of a 3D platformer than any collectathon. He uses the wrong terminology and it's irritating. Like calling Pluto a planet.
But Pluto was a planet until it started talking smack about Neptune and Uranus and it got ditched by the other planets.
And 3D platformer was synonymous with collectathon when it's 1999 and you only own an N64. Which is apparently where HeavyEyed and a ton of commenters are stuck.
Gosh, this year was just amazing for 3D platformers, although I would say Odyssey is mediocre, sorry snowmaN ;)
You did a great job brushing over each game, although talking about 4 games within a 12 minute time slot doesn't really allow for any sort of expounding on ideas, views, reasons, etc. Although I am hoping Snake Pass goes on a good sale at some point so I can grab it.
Corvus Analyzes Why do you think mario odyssey is so mediocre. I know a lot of the bosses are pretty easy but I can't think of anything else.
I'm actually working on explaining myself, which will take a few hours of video to do so, so I'm afraid talking about it here wouldn't do it justice, especially given how seemingly unconventional my views are.
I'm interested to hear why you think Odyssey is mediocre since it's become one of my favorites
Same here, I like it but a lot of the moons just seem like filler
@@gunceler7535 Mario Galaxy had filler as well like the galaxies that only had one star.
I really enjoyed this vid. Good idea to look at all the 3D platformer games that came out this year! I will say I think you could've spent more time talking about Hat in Time, but it was still great despite that!
What is the soundtrack used in a hat in time segment.
*Yookaa Laylee
what about Super Luckys Tale, Crash Bandicoot, and Sonic Forces?
They're kinda lame.
Crash is alright, but it's the same games that were released 20 years ago when the genre was in its infancy. Warts and all. Not really a good topic for a video titled "MODERN design of 3D Platformers".
There's nothing Super Lucky Tale did that could be compared to Mario 3D/Land World years ago. It's not bad but it doesn't innovate either.
Sonic Forces is an inferior take on the same concept of a game released six years before it. And roughly 70% of the game is 2D anyway.
Wow! snake pass looks amazing!
Her name is Hat Kid not Hat Girl.
i just wanted to say, thanks for all your free views and engagement on all my videos these last two days Aidan Or
@@HeavyEyed I just found your channel. I thought I'd watch all your videos since I enjoyed one of them. If I didn't, I might miss out on some good content.
@HeavyEyed & @Snoman Gaming: Great video! There's only one thing that I don't like and that is the change in style for Super Mario Odyssey. Sure, different people have different styles and that's fair, but Snoman didn't name a single criticism of Odyssey, whole HeavyEyed provided a deeper analysis and comparison for every other game with pros and cons. How about having so many Moons just lying around or given for ground pounding a glowing part, that a Moon doesn't feel rewarding anymore? There's no challenge to overcome, so the prize is flawed. Which doesn't make sense, when you already have 2 different currencies that are just lying around to be picked up when passing by. Compare that to older Mario games where collectables where distinct from one another, hidden behind challenges and therefore more valuable. Like (starting from easiest to hardest) having regular coins, colored or dragon coins, one ups and finally stars.
Or criticize how one dimensional most 'cap-tures', which are just a fancier version of regular transformation power-ups to begin with, actually are, because of their very limited movement system and the things you can actually do with them. Or how bland the world design is for the most, especially when compared with a game like A Hat In Time. For a game that's so heavily praised for it's creativity, I would argue that creativity and challenge is actually what's missing from Super Mario Odyssey. And I'm not talking about difficulty here, I mean just challenge in general. Especially the movement system and camera is amazing and it's a good foundation for a hopefully better second part.
A Hat in Time isn't that good I don't think. P.S. Just play Psychonauts, so excited for the second one as well!
Psychonauts is the best platformer of all time and psychonauts 2 is going to be awesome.
Ok, here's a thought... What about a collect-o-thon platformer where you don't actually collect anything (with the possible exception of "breadcrumbs" like Banjo's music notes and Spyro's gems) and with very few actual platforms, but the gameplay still revolves around maneuverability and navigation in other ways?
It's on my to-do list. I'm currently taking Unreal Engine tutorials to serve this very purpose.
A Hat In Time is clearly better than Yooka Laylee for one reason, and it comes in the form of a bird that's a receptionist.
Can you make video about the problem with 3d sonic games
I bought Yooka on release day, and within 2 hours I was back on steam requesting a refund. The game had a terrible start with stupid annoying characters forcing a non-existent story, then when I finally got to play, the wobble flop camera with a mind of its own was unplayable. Mario odyssey is pretty good, but a bit over hyped. Mario is a true joy to control, but I felt the levels were a bit hit or miss. I've only just started A Hat in Time, but so far it's been good.
I wanted a refund before I even started playing because it was said I could change the edition of my game for free once they released the console versions (I kickstarted it with the PC Deluxe Edition) but as soon as they let you switch it would have cost me an extra $10. So now I'm stuck with a DIGITAL ART BOOK. They were very strict on not giving refunds for any reason though. This compounded even more when my friend and I tried to play the $200,000 stretch goal co-op mode and it turned out he was just flying a bunch of bees around and could barely do anything. That's all they could come up with for $200,000. Not to mention the JonTron fiasco.