Was Peter Parker ACTUALLY NERFED In Marvels Spider-Man 2??
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Insomniacs Interpretation Of Peter Parker AKA Spider-Man Is One Of My Favourite Versions Of The Character In Recent Memory.
However With The Recent Release Of Marvels Spider-Man 2, A Few Questions Have Been Raised As To Whether He Is Being Intentionally Nerfed Or Weakened In An Attempt To Secure Miles Moralis As The Main Spider-Man For The INSOMNIAC Universe.
Let's Take Some Time To Critique Both Games And How They Both Handle Peter Parker, To See If They Really Are Weakening Our Favourite Wall Crawler!!!
Timestamps
Intro 00:00
Who Is Peter Parker? 00:18
Kingpin 01:01
Advanced Suit 01:22
Villains Old&New 01:56
Doc Ock/Anti Ock Suit 04:15
New Advanced Suit 05:38
Sandman 06:22
The Black Suit 07:13
Sequels Major Fights 07:59
Miles VS Peter 10:02
Scream 11:06
Anti Venom 12:03
Venom 12:54
Conclusion 13:59
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No way, somebody actually providing a reasonable claim and supporting it with good evidence? That's a first on the internet.
The first of many hopefully as i had a lot of fun researching and scripting this video
Hopefully tomorrows video is just as good
“Could Anti Venom beat the sinister six?”
Do that, I want that
@@dontroastmeyoucantroasttrash it’s already made!! In addition to a full Peter VS Miles breakdown!!! You can find it on my channel
@@TheGamingRift11 The Anti-Venom suit is interesting because yes it does allow Peter to keep up with Miles power-wise but on a narrative level it also validates that Peter is weaker than Miles and requires a power up. For many traditional Spiderman fans, they find it difficult to take in because they are used to Peter using his traditional powers and gadgetry win fights
They also argue that it seems unearned unlike say the Anti-Ock suit which he developed using his own resources which showcases his ingenuity and resourcefulness.
Yeah
The main thing is, Peter is always pulling his punches, if you mess with him badly then that man can literally murder his entire villain gallery..
Yeah, in superior spider man(SPOILERS) when Doc Ock has control of Peter's body, he literally punches Scorpion's jaw off with a single hit. Everybody knows that Peter is holding back, but they don't know to what extent.
@@Sir_TigerShark Peter has also beaten up Norman Osborn bonded with carnage with pure willpower alone which is actually more impressive than beating Cletus with carnage
Fights venom with the anti venom suit and still loses but he's "stronger"? Ok
@@Zyecko- He was holding back more than usual because he isn’t trying to kill harry he’s trying to save harry and get through to him he would have killed venom easily with anti venom if he was actually trying to kill him but he doesn’t want to kill his childhood best friend and you forget that venom only knocked peter out once because peter was kinda letting venom win and letting venom take control of him essentially because he’s trying to get through to harry but after venom almost kills miles and mj saves him and Peter gets his rematch with venom Peter was gaining the upper hand over venom because he was beating the shit out of venom by himself and after venom grabbed him and threw him into a fuel tank it barely phased Peter and Peter slammed and pinned him into the ground and he did much better than miles did against Venom and that’s without using the anti venom symbiote’s burning ability and after he pinned venom to the ground he used anti venom’s burning ability and it was burning the symbiote off pretty easily and that’s the reason harry got back control of the symbiote because of Peter burning the venom symbiote with anti venom and he was trying to save harry he wasn’t trying to kill him if he was trying to kill him by using the anti venom symbiote’s full power venom would’ve died much easier
Honestly dude, I was under the impression he was nerfed this game. However when you drew points/examples from the first game of how his base form isn’t any stronger than it is in the 2nd (if not, he’s stronger in the 2nd game in base form like you pointed out with the scream fight) as shown from the encounters and circumstances with the villains in the first game. Awesome video!
Thank you!!! It’s nice seeing positive feedback when this video took a lot of time to research and make
@@ultamatejoker8282 I’m trying to find a way of responding to that but I’m struggling 😂
The video shows context behind the fights where he “loses” but you also admit he wins fights with the symbiotes…. Which isn’t exactly a disqualification as Peter permanently has anti venom…..which Peter states he’s never felt anything like that suit before…. I don’t see what the problem is
Exactly. Spider-man power and resistance is something that changes a lot of times on a lot of different medias and adaptations… changing a bit from game to game is ok in my opinion
What they didn’t had done right in my opinion is showing us the real strength of the black suit or antivenom in comparison to base spiderman
Its interesting as essentially though peter is experienced, most peoples backlash comes from them comparing 616 peters experience to this insomniacs peters, in ehich its way different since basically insomniac didnt get all his big bads until he was almost 30, and 616 peter was boxin them since he was a teenager, however because insomniacs peter is older people think he should just man handle his rogues gallery. How do they expect a baby to run if it just started walking
Accurate
Insomniac peter is only 26 in spiderman 2
@@uzzi3760 true
Cause the baby was running in the 1st game, lol. It's all to push Miles as THE Spider-Man
@@uzzi3760 Actually he’s 25. He said it in the intro(when he’s talking to Miles about a college essay).
He spent like 10 whole seconds under o fcking fridge. Story wise he was nerfed in order to get the plot twists coming
I guess you ignored the dialogue before that - and also that he got pinned for far longer in the PS4 game 🤷♂️
@@TheGamingRift11 what dialogue? Il give it to you i havent played sp2 yet soo but either way i would like you to tell me in what ocasion was peter pinned down for longer in sp1
11:05 mark of this video
At the start of the scream time stamp In a call with Doctor Conner’s, Peter states he has emotional pain and fatigue
11:24 - gets pinned down by the terminals for far longer after taking a blast from Mr Negative in the first game
Alright man you got me i am fckin stupid for commenting before watching the whole vid😅. And your work kinda releives my doubts about peter s strengh
Keep up the good work
I agree. It is also implied that Peter wasn't at his prime during the game, since he is still dealing with the loss of May.
Pretty much
@@TheGamingRift11 may died like 6 months before this so idk what to tell you.
@@whenallelsfails21 2 years not 6 months…. Not that it matters 🤷♂️
@@TheGamingRift11 so he hasnt gotten over her death after 2 years? I mean cmon now thats even worse. He didnt seem that broken by her being gone in miles's game. He went on vacation and came back more washed up lol.
@@whenallelsfails21 not really
People who endure trauma usually don’t show it for all to see. Buried beneath the surface behind a brave face… but it’s still there
The only reason he was railed by a fridge was because he was fatigued and weakened from the symbiote being removed from him
Exactly - and even then it’s all of 10 seconds and he yeets the thing 😅
Still though, even if he removed the symbiote, he shouldn't still be as fatigued because the symbiote energizes the host. so after removal, the host shouldn't feel too bad, maybe a bit of energy drop, but nothing too significant. Either way, it was an excuse for MJ to get the 19 inches
@@kurimiko it’s explained in dialogue with Doctor Conner’s that in the Insomniac universe, symbiotes don’t fully leave the host when seperated as Venom left residue in Peter which is what is later turned into the Anti Venom symbiote with help from Martin Li and Miles
Symptoms included muscle soreness/fatigue etc
@@kurimikoI think that it makes sense that after removing de symbiote Peter loses tons of energy and stamina because the symbiote made him resist against Kraven and then fight against Miles , so without the symbiote all the extra help he had just vanish . And we have Peter without the symbiote that he just took too much for his regular form . So he did the extra work with help and now suffers de consequences of that extra work without the healing factor of the symbiote
@@TheGamingRift11yeah it makes more since why he was weakened and stuff but even still why did Mj have faster reaction time then Peter 😭 at least that’s what it looked like in the scene
I never understood why people thought Peter was nerfed in the second game. I think people ignore Peter getting beat up in the first game for the fact he was fighting his rogues gallery with "14 broken bones what a badass." Even though he got beat up by Kingpin, Scorpion, even got hit by Silver Sable. Also people don't understand how Spider sense works, it's not ultra instinct, it simply tells him there's danger nearby with him having to figure out where its coming from.
I think the reason people say "Peter got nerfed," is because they didn't like the story and had high expectations. Because of this people dogpile the game saying "It's mid", "This is woke", or "Miles isn't Spider-man." Like if you don't like the story just say you don't like the story.
Pretty much
And also, in the first game he was fighting by himself. Now he has miles there to help. People are just ridiculous and think Peter has to fight all these battles by himself 🤦🏾♂️
He defeated kingpin and was off guarded by the later two also the spider sense warned him of a bomb threat a solid minute before hand
The story i enjoy but there is a lot wrong with that
@@tjperkins7750No more so the problem is that he seems in capable of even handling any major villain without Miles and Miles is more so carrying the fight
This is definitely one of the best videos I’ve seen regarding the “was Peter nerfed” debate. I didn’t even know how much it happened in the game because, from a lot of Spider-Man media I’ve seen, Spider-Man gets thrown around and beaten up A LOT so I didn’t see it as much of a problem. And, as you pointed out, the villains are a lot stronger in the second game than they were in first. And a lot of the fights that Peter partakes in the game, he did end up winning.
I was always in the “No. He wasn’t nerfed” camp, and this video pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Great video.
Thank you so much! It means a lot that a video I put a tonne of research and effort into is recieved so positively…. Onwards to Spider-Man 3
About time someone addressed this. I didn't really remember Peter being this weak in Spider Man 1, but I do know he was significantly stronger and better in Spider Man 2. Also it's really stupid to believe that anyway, because there's zero chance that Pete would not learn from his mistakes in the gap from the 1st game to the 2nd game. And yes, you're right on Spider Man getting his ass kicked being part of his character. He's just your average nerd. He's smart, but he's not perfect. Also he's a street-level superhero because he's holding back all the time. Either people overestimate him, like how people think he was nerfed in the 2nd game, or he's underestimated, because he get's his ass kicked, failed to save Gwen Stacey etc.. People either never heard or have forgotten that Spider Man is powerful enough to knock off Scorpions Jaw (Superior Spider Man saga), and even hypothetically become an Avenger's level threat with the Symbiote or if he never held back.
Thank you!! I have a few more spiderman videos in the works
When Kraven was hitting the bell in church i was desperately hoping Kravin would become venom.
That would’ve been……bad 😅
@@TheGamingRift11Yeah that would be really bad
I feel like Peter really started doubting himself after the first game and felt he needed something to help him like the arms and stuff. And yeah the scorpion thing is valid since if scorpion wanted to kill him right then he would have. The only complaint I have storywise is that Harry didn't die, like it would have hit so much harder if we didn't see toothpaste revive him.
Toothpaste? 😂
@TheGamingRift11 he means Miles because people call him colgate due to his suit
@@Troy_309 I won’t lie, that evolved suit is the stuff of nightmares
Even though he's Spider-Man, he's still a Man. He can get beaten up.
Yeah, people tend to forget about the Man in his name, Spider-Man. Even as powerful as he is, he's still human.
@@conradibekwe3824he’s not human level tho his powers are magical in nature and his powers come from a magical spider god
Yuri’s Peter Is A lot more Mature Which is Very Different compared to Other interpretations, I find that is when the true character comes out
Agreed!!
IMO people are probably saying he got nerfed because hes getting hit with things miles can escape or dodge. And we ALL know that stab had to have something to do with scorpion for peter to literally DIE to it. I feel like instead of miles beating peter he should’ve instead talked to peter during the fight and gotten beat, before peter would take off the suit after what miles said to him, spessifically because base peter OBVIOUSLY should clear base miles, and i also think it would’ve been a little cool if they didn’t make new suits and had peter and miles fight venom in their normal suits inside of the web of shadows style city, you chase venom to spessific locations and fight him at each one before finally defeating the symbiote on the football feild in the end.
Base miles should clear base peter tbh… although miles literally does talk to peter in that fight with peter overpowering him at multiple instances when he wasn’t conflicted 🤷♂️
@@TheGamingRift11aint no way base miles beats base peter, its just not happening unless Miles gets lucky like he does in the comics ( for info Peter beats him but creates a web to stop Miles fall, an then Miles uses venom) plus this peter has the arms and stuff.
@@NotMe-vx4vl that’s comics and not insom
Shoot, literally everything in this video makes sense and explains the many characters strength in both games. Great video
You are welcome
Okay now do “how Mary Jane did not get Overpowered in the game” I’d like to see the loops you make to justify her abilities if this new villain was actually so powerful.
MJ was overpowered, the directors of the game stated they had a clear vision in mind for her, and quote “if that vision makes her overpowered then so be it” 🤷♂️
Either way, she’s armed the symbiotes main weakness 🤷♂️not really overpowered in any case aside from being a support side character to Peter and miles
Also what classifies as “loopholes” in this video?
@@TheGamingRift11first you say she’s over powered the devs even say it then say she’s not over powered she had the symbiotes direct weakness. Which is it man? Lol
also she’s not overpowered cause she used a direct weakness, she’s over powered because she was severely out numbered and would’ve had to be Ellie or John wick to get out that situation even with a sound gun, not to mention her stealthing around and defeating trained hunters like she’s splinter cell. Come on man it was there vision and they sacrificed sense for it.
@@TheGamingRift11 I hate when people complain about MJ being OP because like
Weren't we complaining about her being super weak in the first game? Why is it bad that she's OP now? It makes her missions more fun to play (in my opinion at least)
@@pifontofr6053 I agree
@@pifontofr6053 bruh it's possible to have a balance or just not have MJ missions. Either way he's right she absolutely did get OP rather you agree with the decision to make her OP or not.
This is why Arkham Batman would easily beat Spider-Wuss because he defeated his foes easily in every Arkham game compared to Spider-Wuss who constantly got beaten, or given a heavily difficult fight against opponents he's faced countless times before Arkham Batman would kill Spider-Wuss before he knew what hit him because Spider-Wuss is a pathetic punching bag while Arkham Batman is a giga chad who wins every fight easily because HE'S BATMAN.
PS: I'm only kidding
Batman solos Goku
This didn’t age well 💀
@@bandermaster6461
Cause of Suicide Squad?
He got stronger. Idk why people pretend like spiderman never gets beat up when it happens all the time. Same with batman, people pretend like he’s some invincible man who always has a plan, but forget he got his back broken by some guy on steroids. These 2 heroes in particular are meant to be more grounded heroes yet people wanna act like they’re superman with no weaknesses
I liked this video alot. You’ve changed my rather strong stance on the topic. Im hoping they expand on anti venom in sm3 and make peter much stronger and aggressive, similar to web of shadows.
As far as I’m concerned, there’s no greater compliment than what you just gave…..
I understand it’s a controversial topic with a lot, and I mean A LOT of videos on YT saying he’s been nerfed into the ground, and I’m glad I can prove that isn’t the case.
I’m interested to see where they take things with Anti Venom especially with miles and Cindy moon coming on the scene
@@TheGamingRift11 peter gonna give Cindy 19 inches of anti-venom >:)
@@uzzi3760I don’t think they’re the same age in this universe pretty sure she’s supposed to be closer to miles age
@@Kingcrimson_1456 womp womp
Love the theme in the back What a throwback 😍
Such a good theme, only beaten by the Raimi Theme IMO
So glad I’m not the only one thinking this.
People seem to keep viewing these encounters in a “Death Battle” sense where everyone’s at their peak form with no prior context or fatigue as well as whatever psychological factors are at play. It’s been well documented that Peter’s powers can “glitch out” if his head isn’t in the right place. And then there’s the people who act like his spider sense makes him untouchable when it’s just not the case.
And when Kraven stabbed him, he was worried about MJ being in immediate danger with hunters and the lizard surrounding her, and he did grab Kraven’s hand with the knife. So he did sense the danger, he reacted, but didn’t react fast/strong enough because he didn’t know how strong Kraven really was. He’s always holding back to the point he makes things more difficult for himself. And that’s with enemies where he knows their strength. He only had the footage of Kraven killing Scorpion to go off of, and that seemed to primarily be strategy and a resistance to Scorpion’s toxins that he already studied and prepared for
Pretty much!! I agree
11:26 One thing, there is still negative affects under the terminal while Peter is pinned by it, making it harder to get up and he only does when it goes away, explaining why he was under there longer than a fridge.
Mr. Negative was even tired from how much power he used to try and knock down Peter
Given that he’s stronger than Mr Negative even whilst holding back - broke free from Li’s Realm, I doubt it would’ve made a difference
@@TheGamingRift11Nono probably didn’t affect his mind because his eyes didn’t close meaning he was in the negative thing, so it must have weakened his body making it harder to get up and break free.
@@superbed02 tbh even if the energy did weaken Peter to some extent in that moment, it really wouldn’t matter
He breaks free in both scenarios so idk why people are losing their minds over the fridge one specifically
@@TheGamingRift11 They are losing their minds to the fridge one because hes a Spiderman who’s taken much worse + the fact MJ even tried to tank some of the hit. If Peter is able to look over and see venom giving 19 inches to MJ instead of almost immediately pushing up and flinging the fridge off his back.
@@superbed02he’s also a spiderman who was exhausted in that specific situation against a venom who didnt want to kill any of them…. He could’ve killed Peter/MJ/Miles etc multiple times in the story (and we see with Kraven that he clearly has 0 issues with killing) Venom actively holds back against Peter especially
You definitely made a lot of good points in this video. I couldn’t agree with you more
Thank you! This took a lot of research
I think that it makes sense that after removing de symbiote Peter loses tons of energy and stamina because the symbiote made him resist against Kraven and then fight against Miles , so without the symbiote all the extra help he had just vanish . And we have Peter without the symbiote that he just took too much for his regular form . So he did the extra work with help and now suffers de consequences of that extra work without the healing factor of the symbiote. That could explain the fridge incident although there are many different ways to show the same
I agree tbh. It left him drained and still infected
@@TheGamingRift11yeah like aids
He was also mental fatigued xD and we know with spiderman his mental state is his power
I think what people overlooked, is that yes, he isn't exactly nerfed. He is as strong as when he was first introduced and made stronger in the second game as you said.
But something you didn't put into perspective is that in reality, its really the writing that puts Peter in these scenarios that he shouldn't be in the first place. The fridge scene's, how he went up against Sandman, the instant kill from Kraven, the roller coaster scene's, and even the Miles fight. In my personal opinion, these set pieces moments, showcase Peter in either in an odd way, or even to the point like he gotten nerfed when it's just the way the events played out. If Peter focused more on Sandman's weakness then outright trying to go toe to toe with him, then he'll be more competent and not rely too much on Miles. If Peter was able to save the roller coaster on his own, but had failed to some people, then it would still show him competent person yet he couldn't save everyone as he wanted too. If Peter had a moment to fight Kraven, not just one scene of him getting stab where he SHOULD, have a spider sense going off since it tells him where and when an attack coming, then it would again show him be more competent as he should be. If the game showcase Peter at his lowest point, taking down an injured Miles since he SHOULD, be way more injured to fight a symboite Spider-Man, then it'll show him a far more experience, competent Spider-Man then Miles. And regardless of the fridge scene being in place, Peter is high on adrenaline, MJ is in danger once again, there's no way he should let MJ take that attack SINCE, the game still has Peter spider sense going off against venom, even when he had the symboite on him.
The problem with each of those specific scene's, and alot more in the game, is that they made Peter an incompetent person for other characters to shine in their scene. The right move the writers should've done is to treat every, single, character with their own respect, and not let one another shine over the other. Instead, let everyone have their moments to shine in the sun. That's why Peter looks nerf in this game when he shouldn't be, he shouldn't be in half of those situation, but this is how the writers constructed these events for the story sake.
I couldn’t disagree more tbh… as each of those scenes is backed up with context and in universe evidence explaining why they went that way
The only outlier being the Roller coaster example but even then, this is the same guy who struggled to lift trucks in the PS4 game… so holding up a ferris wheel with 1 hand is still crazy
(Struggles to lift a roughly 30 tonne or 55K pounds truck with both hands vs supporting a 22K pounds ferris wheel with 1 hand for a while whilst lifting the coaster cars with the people involved)
@@TheGamingRift11 Yet imo, those context and in universe explanation still makes Peter incompetent in a way. There's not really a lot of moments where the game outright explains how mentally drain Peter is from the 10 years of doing this, a good portion of things that could explain why Peter was in this state its more of a poor excuse then anything, and you can't deny the fact that some scenes made other characters to look better then Peter.
I'mma be real, the game tells, more then it shows. I don't think I would have much of a problem if the game shows the more negative aspect of why Peter is not as capable as he should be.
To be fair, Peter can lift up something like that when push come's to shove, but the game doesn't lean to his more outrages strength that comics showcase in these certain moments. Since they don't, yeah I'll have to agree with you on that part, but I feel it still made him look incompetent for him to just...Give up. Regardless the circumstance, Peter never gives up to save someone, always trying no matter how hard it can be.
It made sick to hear him say that he was sorry he wouldn't be able to save someone. And I get it, he's human, he can't save everyone, but Peter no matter what, wouldn't give up. I'm going little off topic so apologize on that, but I also disagree on your stand point.
He didn't get nerfed physically, he got dumber and his spidey-sense is worthless. Jumps head first at Sandman, knifed by Kraven (which we can argue his stealth skills is so good that he went undetected but we seen better detect the bombers in a crowd in the first game), he never tries to replicate the saber tech in MJ's gun since she can 5 shot Riot like it's nothing while Miles and Peter has to do 25 combos to down normal symbiotes, in the first game the moment he found a piece of tech useful he would craft a gagdet out of it. There has to be more instances where he was the dumbest person in the room that I can't remember right now. If we wanna go into the sweaty ass world of power scaling, this version of Peter (spiderman1) is the strongest adaptation of Spider-man outside the comics in terms of reaction time and strength, He was dodging Lightning from electro (if we count the comics on the Ps4 spiderman he had a reaction time strong enough to stop crime in the velocity suit that made him a speedster), holding a crane and stopping a train. Here he can't dodge sandman's slowass or lift the train off him during the Cletus Kassidy monologue.
I appreciate the length of the comment…. I just wished there was a based take in it..
@@TheGamingRift11 He does have some merit though. Peter was definitely made dumber in this game. I'm not gonna say he was nerfed or anything, man is just dealing with a LOT of issues on top of a decade of burnout, but in Spiderman 1 Peter was not arrogant enough to jump headfirst at the obvious head honcho without a plan and get stabbed for it.
In regards to his Spider-Sense I'm willing to let it slide because it might be on the fritz because of his emotional problems, but god dang was it suffering erectile dysfunction throughout the entire game. I don't really care that Peter got pinned by a fridge, what gets me is that like Haux said, Peter is capable of dodging lightning bolts, yet in this game MJ has better reflexes than fucking SPIDERMAN.
sandman was huge and he was busy thinking about how to stop sandman, though i will admit he did get slightly nerfed in that boss. peter was knifed by kraven because he was rushed, and had to avoid getting a lizard problem on top of that.
@@venusstar2963Agreed. Spider-Man is suppose to be a tank. These writers need to do a little more research or read some more Spiderman comics.
@@TheGamingRift11 i didnt know you were completely full of shit until this comment lol
He wasn't nerfed by age, he was nerfed by the plot.
Clearly wasn’t
My twins molecular structure was nerfed
@@alexmal9021 🫡
@@TheGamingRift11I mean his spider-sense didn’t work for like half the game at least 😅
@@notkarmaaa just like the first game then… so it’s consistent
Anti-Venom is strong as hell
Indeed
Comic spider-man: one punches scorpions jaw off (under control of doc oc) insomniac spider-man: nearly dies to his poison
……okay??
Comics hulk obliterates Abomination… MCU hulk has trouble dealing with him?
Since we are making statements that don’t hold any weight?
Problem with that is Peter knows how to control his strength Otto does not also I don’t think Peter is immune to poison
@@TheGamingRift11even though, it's stated in the comics abomination is actually stronger than hulk, certainly at base level at least
@@user-jl9hn5lf1v I’m guessing you haven’t kept up with comics hulk then?
short answer; no
long answer; no. he’s been spider-man nonstop for 10 years and his tiredness is finally kicking in. that is why he trusts and believes miles will be just fine by himself
pretty much
Gets knocked by a fridge...... nah he is good
Yeah he is given the context
My whole thing is that one small knife almost killed him when, before, as mj put it from the first game, Kingpin cut him open like a pork sausage it almost killed him them but it was much worse than one knife
I think the difference with that situation is that Kraven is almost certainly a much better fighter than kingpin and also had prior knowledge in that specific encounter - meanwhile Peter almost certainly underestimated Kraven.
Peter was likely far less experienced (and weaker) when kingpin cut him up - and since Peter has the anti venom now, injuries like that shouldn’t be an issue for present Peter
Also, this version of kraven has been amped right up, compared to the comic version. His strength and reflexes etc have never been anywhere near Spiderman's level in the comics. His hunting prowess and weaponry/hunting skills are what made him such a formidable foe. But we all know there's many differences between the games and the comics all round. Regardless of the differences, I love these games 👌🏽
@@user-jl9hn5lf1v the sooner you stop comparing this version of Spiderman and by extension his villains, to their comic counterparts
The sooner your points improve 🤷♂️ it’s pretty obvious there are notable differences between the 2 verses
I've never considered Spider-Man (Peter) to be nerfed or weakened. While I definitely didn't do a deep (and amazing) analysis like you, my opinion still remains the same. I loved the first Spider-Man game on ps4, and it will always be one of my favourites. The Anti-Venom suit is the pinnacle of all suits, and is a great addition to the game.
great video
Thank you!!!
For yall who dont know and dont feel like watching the whole video of theories
He wasnt really NERFED but his powers were weakened and this is because of aunt mays death
Yes.
She died over a year ago but Peters still grieving heavily and most of the time whenever a spider mans mental health plummets their powers do the same thing
This also kinda explains why Miles was able to get Peter to get the symbiote off.
It was because he literally has a mental breakdown during the fight and you all know how it played out afterwards
This also further explains why *Spoiler* Peter is temporarily retiring as spider man
yes. obviously for the emily May foundation and Harry but its likely its so he can get his mental health in check and be better than ever in suppose in spider man 3
Pretty much
His powers getting weakened IS A NERF. Do you not know what the word nerf means? Doesn't matter if it makes logical sense in-game IT. IS. STILL. A. NERF.
@@redram6080 except he never got weaker? 🤔 and you are incorrect
If it makes logical sense in the canon then it isn’t a nerf
@@TheGamingRift11 "He never got NERFED but his powers did get weakened. This is because of Aunt May's death."
Your response to this was "Pretty much".
So which was it? Did he get weaker due to his powers being tied to his emotional state or not?
A nerf simply means that a character got weakened. Again it doesn't matter if it makes in universe sense for him to get weakened. If he did then he got nerfed. You can argue that it's not a bad thing but I think it's silly to argue that it's not a nerf at all
@@redram6080 the pretty much was in response to the final 2 comments about Peter temporarily retiring to focus on mental health
And no it’s not a nerf, the villains were just far stronger in the second game. Especially given that Anti Venom exists which is now a part of Peters biology and is an undeniable amp to anything he could achieve in base.
Especially since Peter when debatably as physically weak as he could be in the second game due to the hive mind symptoms and holding back, still held his own against Scream and outlasted her just likes Miles had outlasted Symbiote Peter 🤷♂️
A lot of people keep talking about him drowning in sand and not being able to handle himself which yes i understand the frustration but Peter literally saved miles from flying into sandman's mouth, So I think people really forget It is *GREATER TOGETHER* is the whole point
I hope you guys enjoyed!!!!🎉
Really awesome points.
I think I got hit with a bit of the rage early on where I thought Peter was downplayed. Whilst I still think they could make him a li’l less of a punching bag at times, it is still consistent.
My major issues at the end of the day with this game come from the story-writing itself, namely the pacing was rushed after the first half and I think they played it way too safe with Miles, so many opportunities to explore Miles making mistakes and he just held off every time and had these really optimal outcomes
Good points back to you!
8:15 theres a sort of doc ock parrallel with Peter and the symbiote. Just that scene reminded me so much of Doc Ock. idk the formal terms and all that but yeah. not something ive heard people mention before.
The Black suit is so Op Kraven was lying on the roof knocked out
Are you referring to Venom? 🤔 I’m assuming you are
@@TheGamingRift11 No, I mean in his fight with Harry. Before he gave the suit to Peter
@@lk_profi4752 oh right.. yeah true, forgot about that :)
I do believe Peter was nerfed, but in the mechanical sense. His gadget options being reduced is a nerf, but it's a nerf to the player, not the character. We trade all the handy gadgets for a selection of gadgets andd symbiote powers. Don't get me wrong, what we got is awesome, but I did like the difference between Miles and Peter being Miles having some of the gadgets but also his unique powers to differentiate himself, while Peter had all the tricks and tools.
I do miss some of the old gadgets
It’s not felt as much in combat, considering we have gadgets and powers now, but in stealth their absence is much more noticeable.
I mean, it isn't really a nerf, so much as it's really just a change to the combat style. Sure, Peter doesn't have most of his gadgets anymore, but you said so yourself, he makes up for that with his new arms and symbiote abilities. It's not like the devs shrugged, threw their hands up in the air and said, "Welp, guess Pete's out of luck!" And left him with nothing and you had to just work with his four gadgets alone.
Also, I'd argue both Peter AND Miles took a hit when it came to stealth, mostly because stealth was never really all that focused on in the sequel. Though, to be fair, stealth was never really all that good in EITHER games. (Didn't play too much of Miles to critique it fairly.)
i like this real type of scaling dude really good
Thank you!! Although there’s always room for improvement 🫡
I love how you addressed everything
But I think why people think Peter is nerft is based on the fact that
They want base Peter to be capable of fighting say miles or even kraven in a fight
As some people believe With out the black suit peter loses
As people think if Peter needs a as symbote to fight them otherwise he is fodder
It’s that fear base Peter will be stomped by miles or kraven
And why people think he is nerft
Personally I think base peter could beat kraven but he would have to go all out and rely more on outsmarting and outs skilling kraven rather then being brute force as he was with the symbote
Similar to how base peter beats kraven in the comics
ruclips.net/video/uDjUXXKyHZc/видео.htmlsi=6RAW1mmgGGzaUILU
As he doesn’t beat kraven via just brute force alone but being more ruthless cunning and more skilled
As people don’t want peter to rely on a power amp to beat people who he should deem as equal
As Peter in base has always held back and to subconscious level he does so still on the black suit
Implying if base Peter or black suit Spider-Man wanted to go all out they fodderise villains that he otherwise would struggle with while holding back
And possibly beat other he couldn’t if he did holding back
Same with miles as i don’t think its impossible for base peter to beat miles
As miles relies on his bio electrify to give him an edge as there is no fight he is in where he can’t technically win the fight without it
As Peter would even things out if he develops something to cancel out miles bio eclectic powers
And it more or less be 2 different Spider-Men with the same power set and who wins comes down to skill rather then raw power
And I think that’s what people are really wanting to see from base peter
That he is capable of defeating people like mikes or kraven 1v1 without the need of a symbote
As the saying goes “if your nothing without this suit your shouldn’t have it”
Pretty much
@@TheGamingRift11 do you think they will address base peter being say able to beat miles or kraven, as I think if insonaic say he could even if he is say objectively weaker
Then everyone would
Stop saying he is nerft as much as despite being the weakest he is still capable of contending and beating them via means beyond being say the strongest
@@ATalesTruth- I’ve no idea - time will tell!!
It seems he was nerfed especially because of Miles.
Sure Miles has all of those extra powers but the fact that Peter cant keep up with Miles on their common powers is ridiculous.
Peter and Miles should have more less the same strengh in base for example but when Peter had the black suit Miles was still able to keep up even when Peter should be waaaay stronger physically.
And they did this from the beggining to the end, Miles always able to keep up and even suprassing Peter no matter what power up Peter got.
I know there are other factors but Miles is barely affected by them while Peter (who mentally should be way stronger than Miles) is really affected
I’d recommend my Miles VS Peter video then - hopefully that will offer another perspective
He was punching kravens goons, humans, so Peter was punching at human level relatively, kraven is far stronger than a human so Peter’s punch was nothing to him. Which is why he was probably disappointed, if Peter had thrown a full forced punch it probably would’ve broken kravens arm.
I doubt that
@@TheGamingRift11 which part, that Peter was holding back or that it would’ve broken kravens arm, because it probably wouldn’t have broken kravens arm but Peter was for a fact holding back considering he was killing kravens hunters.
Spider-Man 2 is my personal GoTY for 2023, maybe in my personal top ten games ever. Just my opinion tho
Respect!! I can’t wait to replay it when it comes to PC in June
@@TheGamingRift11 lol I bought my PS5 just so I could play it lmao, hope you love it too!
@@J.A.R.L. I hope so too!!
Yeah man same here. It’s my game of the year for 2023. Spider-Man or that Zelda game(really wanna play that).
He was do to his PTSD from SM1. Just like from SM 2002 to SM2
Pretty much, especially with the scream boss
@@legoalityfilms7606Peter defeated ock before may died because ock had the cure for the virus
Not to brag nor do I mean to chew you out or whatever, but the Spidey in your thumbnail is the render I made and posted on my Deviantart page.
Just pointing that out.
It’s a damn good render!! ⚡️
10:15 lets not forget that immediately after his encounter with Li, he had to solo the hunters before getting bodied by Kraven (at least implied by the scene of Kraven giving Peter "motivation" to break the box). And i agree, the Miles V Peter fight is PEAK of the games so far.
Agreed - if miles didn’t have access to the bioelectric abilities / the bell, he would’ve certainly lost that fight - but regardless that fight was hype
@@TheGamingRift11 Fr
I think they sort of made him feel weaker so that we can feel the significant difference when we use the symbiote suit (with symbiote surge)
I didn’t even think Peter was nerfed in Spider-Man 2. Instead he was going up other villains who were much more powerful than him. And with the Kraven fight, look at the size of that blade! He wasn’t just stabbed, but the knife was lodged in him and looked very poisonous. Overall, I agree with everything in this video. You brought up excellent points with great evidence and reasoning
I don't think its the fact that people say that miles is better than peter in every way as you explained. I think its the fact that people (including me) realize that peter NEEDS the symbiote to be stronger than miles
Even then he still isn't stronger
About the whole scream vs spiderman thing wouldn't that make spidey stronger than kraven? Harry without experience and in a blind rage beat the brakes off of kraven without much answer from kraven, but spiderman was handling his own against scream and is in the upperhand against scream(although its one of venom's spawns) whilst holding back even more. Imo, i think spiderman in a fair fight would be a victor of the fight against kraven its just peter underestimated him, hell he even stated it after obtaining the symbiote.
Not really…. Scream is still comparable to Spiderman debatably stronger although she has almost no combat experience whatsoever
And tbh you could honestly argue Kraven is better across the board
insomniac proved that you don't need to weaken someone to nerf them. just put them with a guy who you've made extremely strong with plot armour, who breezes through the same situations with ease that peter somehow has a hard time dealing with.
Miles didn’t have plot armour 😂
What scenarios did Miles "breeze through" exactly, if you don't mind me asking? Because from what I've seen of him, Miles screws up and gets his ass kicked quite a lot in this universe. Not to mention he also doesn't deal with most of the big bads that Peter has to deal with (Kraven and Lizard, for example) and when he does, he either loses or needs to be saved in the end.
@@Joker-dn5xs
Miles can still handle himself tho.
@@dylansharp8471
Without a doubt, he can. My point was that, like Peter, he's not invincible and can still lose his battles.
Yea the way they treated Peter in the second game was disgusting in favor of miles. I wanted to play spiderman but got nerf man. Each attack knocked him down. Horrible way to treat him insomniac.
Idk how how people arrive at that conclusion given that it’s in fact the polar opposite
If people are so concerned that Peter was nerfed then they are forgetting who exactly the two big bads are in this game. While I hope everybody already knows that Venom is one of his most fiercest enemies (thanks to having added strength and speed and being invisible to the spider-sense), I think a lot of people have forgotten that historically Kraven has never been a push over either. This is the same man that buried Peter alive after tranquillizing him in Kraven’s Last Hunt. Hell, his family was even able to kill Kaine Parker, a more brutish and kinda overpowered version of Peter. The fridge shouldn’t even be that big of a deal since he’s been pinned down by heavy stuff before and only really for a moment. (That scene in Homecoming should come to mind)
Just because Peter struggles doesn’t mean he’s any more weaker, it means he’s facing more deadlier threats and being overwhelmed. From a narrative standpoint, it’s meant to raise the stakes and making Peter too overpowered might’ve dampened the story’s tension.
You forget that Peter easily killed Kraven’s family the same ones that killed kaine Parker lmao
@@Spiderman2910 That’s beside the point. SM2’s version of Kraven is heavily implied to be a mystical wild man whose is more calculated and beefed up compared to his comic counterpart. People complaining how he posed a significant threat to Peter ought to recall those important details.
@@jackdaw1190 kraven still loses to base Peter ok base Peter scales to 616 and base Peter held his own against scream who would wipe the floor with Kraven and Peter’s performance against scream is as good as his performance against his villains in the 1st game and he defeated his villains pretty easily including mister negative and mister negative is confirmed by the director of insomniac games to be more powerful in the 1st game than he was in Marvel’s spider man 2 and Peter defeated mister negative faster and easier than miles did
i dont know what youre on about but kraven is no match for peter. the man can lift 2 tons at most, peter hurls tanks
@@gsomslayer This specific version of Kraven shatter stone with his bare fists while trading blows with an enraged Agent Venom. Safe to say he is a match for Peter in this game at least.
My problem with the "nerfing" is with the reaction time with spider sense was worse than MJ's for the infamous fridge scene. I am fine with Peter being weak but his reaction time should far surpass the average joe. There are moments in the first game with these but it's much more evident in the 2nd one.
In the fridge scene if you slow the scene down. Peter is clearly focusing on MJ concerned for her safety than his own… he does react in time but he isn’t focusing on the attack itself but instead the wellbeing of the love of his life
@@TheGamingRift11 I can see that but why didn't peter take the hit then? Maybe I missed something but it just doesn't make sense to me.
I would’ve been okay with venom webbing him up because I’d understand the struggle there. A half empty fridge though, no. He momentarily held up a falling crane in the first installation.
I don’t see the issue… when he comes to, he tosses the fridge with no issue
@@TheGamingRift11it sounds silly, but why did it take him 12 seconds (roughly, yes I counted lol).
@@-A-M probably cause he took a hit from venom and was stunned or dazed or whatever
Not sure why MJ endured it as well as she did but the developed did intend for her to be a bit overpowered 🤷♂️ it’s a bit dumb but at least there’s some justification
Dude your video should have a LOT more views. You did a great job giving the facts about Peter’s strength from the Spider-Man insomniac games. Yeah I was always confused about the overreaction surrounding peters strength. Actually the only thing that was really “Nerfed” was the spider sense(in both games). Sadly that ability has always been inconsistent. Obviously I’m cool with constructive criticism but the nitpicking surrounding Spider-Man 2 has been ridiculous.
I mean 12K views and counting!! That’s phenomenal for my channels standards
But thank you it means a lot!! Any suggestions for me to improve my projects??
I’d recommend the newer videos I made and seeing what you think to those
@@TheGamingRift11 Yeah man! I’m glad your views are going up 😎👍🏼. Also I do have one idea for a video: “Is Spiderman 2 a safe sequel?”. I’ve seen some videos and comments saying the story is safe but I disagree. Venom going on a brutal rampage in Oscorp and killing Kraven like that isn’t safe. Actually I’m surprised Insomniac got away with that for a Rated T game. Plus having an epic Miles vs Peter fight felt pretty bold as well.
@@Steel-101 thanks dude!! Maybe join the discord server if you like!!!
That might be a great video topic!!
Tbh i think the reason he is more weaker is bc of aunt may death and the 14 broken bones and dont forget the trip to Europe in spider man miles Morales ps4/ps5
How would the broken bones be a factor??🤔 even the most severe of breaks take like 6 months maximum to heal for a normal human being
Spiderman is obviously superhuman and 2 years take place between PS4 and SM2
Also how would the trip make a difference?? It’s again a few weeks maximum compared to the 8 years of experience Peter already has??
@@TheGamingRift11 he was nerfed bc i think the developers are focusing on miles Morales or not ngl i don't watch like theory's or anything
@@Blazegamingss again there’s no proof that he is nerfed, it’s just headcannon as the developers never said that they would intentionally nerf Peter just to boost Miles
Literally the only thing they’ve done was make Peter temporarily retire which I think is more than fair given all the shit that man has gone through in verse
@@TheGamingRift11 he gets picked up/saved by miles 7 times in this game and peter indirectly saves miles 1 time. The bias of the writers is beyond evident here man.
@@whenallelsfails21 okay? They have good teamwork and they save each other??
If it was the other way around you wouldn’t bat an eyelid 🥱
He Clearly Wasn't Weaker WTF??
Good video man
Appreciate it!! I think it was more than worth the effort
About the fridge idk why Peter didn’t took the hit for MJ, maybe this is how the story goes
I get that, although it would’ve made no difference whatsoever
Story wise: Only when the plot needed him to be
Gameplay wise: No
Durability Wise: Yes
He’s been Spider-Man for 10 long ass years. People are always bringing up the fridge scene and his durability being weakened. I think the main reason why is just because compared to Miles(Without the symbiote) Peter just feels like Miles but he’s less powerful.
The fridge being explained why he was struggling, so it’s not an issue
I really hope he didn't die in marvel spider man 3 and plus i want peter to join avenger's and also i want peter vs ock and green Goblin solo no miles seriously
Anti venom vs Goblin and Ock would be a great fight (although I doubt they would team up anyways)
I doubt they are gunna do that, especially if Silk and especially miles are on the scene…
Also Peter was not going all out on kraven in either fight
He did go all out immediately prior to the miles fight choking Kraven
he gets beat up lots of times in the first and in the second game, but the difference is that in the second one they make Peter look like a chump most of the times, incapable of doing stuff by his own. he lacks attitude and the same vibe that he had in the first game. i don’t think the issue is a nerf, but a writing one
Brought down to badass is the reason
I don't feel like he was nerfed from how he was in the first game, but especially during the final boss, he just wasn't as strong as he should have been. Harry Osborn was a regular guy who bonded with the Venom symbiote and became Venom. Peter Parker, who was already incredibly strong(I mean, he was Spider-Man, so yeah), bonded with the same symbiote, except it had been turned into the perfect weapon for killing the Venom symbiote. I just think that Anti-Venom Peter was incredibly weakened by the plot, as based on how strong he was before, and that he now possessed the same symbiote, which happened to be altered into the antidote for Venom, he wasn't as strong during the endgame as he should've been. I do think they did this in order to drive home the game's theme that the two need to work together, but it didn't sit right with me when Peter was out of the fight so soon. I fully agree with everything you said though.
If anything that should just show how much of a boost Symbiotes actually are
@@TheGamingRift11 That's exactly the issue. Both Peter and Harry used symbiotes at the end. Peter's simply didn't attempt to take over his mind. I just think that with Peter's base strength much higher than Harry's, and them both using a symbiote, the fight should've gone differently.
I think the notion that peter was nerfed comes from how the fights play out. When I saw peter get one tapped by kraven, effortlessly, with the guy almost dying by a simple stab when he had previously endured a whole katana going through his chest (as stated within the memories/observations of MJ in the fisk museum), Idk, that just did not sit right with me. The same can be said about when peter just blindly rushed towards sandman without any proper planning or observation in the start of the game (b4 you switch to miles). He seems less competent, in a way. And, in some cases, actually less resistent.
This could be due to the loss of Aunt May and the burning out of the gig we see throughout the 3 games in the series, but it still isn't convincing to me. That isn't even explored in the game like a subplot, alike to the one in Raimi's SM2 where peter loses his powers because of burn out. It just doesn't feel right.
Plus, most of the time where peter is actually stronger, it's because the has he symbiote, the anti-symbiote or bad writing. IF peter was holding back more than ever with scream, then why did he perform better than in a situation where he had no intention/reasons to do so? And why is anti-venom so inefficient in this game, as compared to its comic and pretty much any counterparts? He's too easily beaten, no matter the circumstance, and that goes for miles too, though to a lesser extent, as he does grab Ws on his own, without Anti/Venom buffs.
In sumary, while peter did get beat up to a pulp in the first game, he took it like a champ back then. Now, he legit just fell off, and need symbiotes to back himself up, as opposed to miles, which evolves his own powers and abilities a lot more. Sorry for any grammar problems and mistakes, I am brazillian and am also, first and foremost, human, unlike the Spider-Men, which are superhuman. Have a great day! :D
Fisk didn’t stab Peter just slashed him pretty badly. also,kraven is a hunter, so he probably knows where it’s best to actually kill someone and why complain about Peter having the black suit that’s the point of the game
@@Kingcrimson_1456 ok? doesnt make it any less lame lol. Hes not complaining about the black suit existing hes complaining about peter NEEDING the suit to cop any solo w's in this game bc without it he doesnt. Hell when he has the black suit hes STILL winning by the skin of his teeth
@@whenallelsfails21 so Peter, having the black suit is lame and his enemies being black suit level is also lame?
@@Kingcrimson_1456 yeah? wtf kinda question is this man? Why would i want a sick ass power up as a superhero that comes with major downsides if all it did was barely level out the playing field? The symbiote should make peter op, not bring him up to snuff with everyone else.
@@whenallelsfails21 You aware that Peter was holding back in all of his encounters when he had the black suit
I don’t really agree with this, like he tough sandman when he was young and won in the first game and they never really say how powerful sandman was or how big so it seems like an assumption for that part like I think they nerfed Peter mentally after what happened in the first game. Like when he was fighting sandman he said he had a plan and rush punched him in the face, didn’t seem like something an experienced Peter would do. I think Pete was just very broken mentally plus the fights he had the most trouble with were people closer to him. He easily fought rhino and scorpion, and fought electro and vulture, but with Lee and Otto it was more of a challenge it wasn’t even a more cinematic fight. When Peter fought Otto again yeah he was losing til he found out he knew and that pissed him off and he immediately broke the arm which clearly he could have done before but he held back so much. Honestly the people he struggled with the most were people closest because I think he held back way more, miles, ock, venom/harry, Martin Lee. I think his mental shifted so much because when he fought rhino in the first games he was able to take rhino and scorpion with broken bones but in miles he needed miles help which to me felt like a clear indication that he lost some of what he was fighting for ….aunt may. I see people talk so much about his physical strength being nerfed but I think it was just a peter with a weaker mental state meaning he needed the break which he gets and miles takes the mantle I think in the future we will see a more usual peter
I agree with some of the comments but other stuff is just taken out of context or exaggerated
I think you keep forgetting this Symbiote doesn’t actually improve Peters Pure Strength it only gives him tendril Strength no where does it say show Peters Pure strength is upgraded it’s why his moveset is the same, in the spider man 3 game the rami black suit does improve his pure strength bully Maguire He literally grabs and tosses a giant Kaju lizard into generators and the SM3 Kaju Lizard is bigger than the Marvel SM2 One.
Also Miles did beat Peter it isn’t really even comparable, saying he helped Peter free himself is bs the objective literally says “Remove the Symbiote from Peter” but when you fight Scream it’s say “Help MJ free herself from the Symbiote” and miles did most of the work anyway.
But... The SM3 game ALSO doesn't state that it improves his strength. For all we know, it simply removes his inhibitions and makes him more unwilling to hold back his strength (hence the rage mode).
Also, dude, Peter LITERALLY removed the suit himself with the help of Miles. So what if the objective was "remove the symbiote from Peter". Like, did you ACTUALLY, unironically think that would give your point more merit? Because -- newsflash -- it doesn't... Like, at all. Also yeah, Miles did most of the work... Much like Peter did most of the work with dealing with Scream and saving MJ, so what's your point?
It should be noted not all Spider-Men hold back people should stop trying to to say because he holding back against everyone. It’s only mentioned by taskmaster However it should be noted that we don’t know by how much it could be killer instinct for all we know or maybe strength but by how much is unquantifiable. So stop with the he’s holds back and none of his villains scale to him also that part of lore is new usually his villains always scale to or above him in the comics. So yeah insomniac Spider-Man isn’t nerfed his villains are just stronger. Plus sandman likely held back in their previous encounters as he isn’t a killer he’s just a down on his luck man.
So…. Peter does hold back then as it’s confirmed in the game?
It’s also stated by Kraven multiple times even when he has the black suit. Pretty sure he holds back
@@TheGamingRift11 in terms of killing intent yes he’s holding back because he doesn’t want to kill but you don’t gotta try to kill someone to go all out in terms of strength/punching someone and in terms of skill cmon he’s got some martial arts skill but nothing in comparison to a average goon where he gets folded by a kraven goon if he ain’t got no powers in straight hands . Taskmaster is the only one confirmed he held back on which most likely was intent to kill as with kraven he struggled immensely and he legit could have lost but kraven stated he’s holding back as he didn’t want to kill him so yes He holds back but it’s not in terms of power it’s just finishing the job. Kraven and taskmaster view mercy as weak so of course they would admonish him for “ holding back” as he doesn’t want to end them. I mean kraven had his whole family get killed in an attempt for one of them to possibly kill him of course he’s gonna call out Spider-Man for not wanting to murder.
@@user-cf7gt1ne8k I mean you could give a lot of examples if that was the case including
Mr Negative
Shocker
Mr Negative
Doc Ock
Scream
Sandman
Lizard
Hell even Venom to an extent
He would still be holding back and it’s no surprise Peter wouldn’t wanna kill people as it would be out of character
Insomniac wouldn’t have included the line that he isn’t trying to kill taskmaster, or the multiple examples in the Kraven fight
You can still knock people out without going all out, which is what Peter does against Fisk’s men, the demons, sables militia etc.
@@TheGamingRift11 against sandman and venom he’s getting folded no matter what venom legit shrugged and off anti Spider-Man attacks and had him dead to rights venom was weakened while Spider-Man was knocked out and thrown also venom was nerfed by harry so both are nerfed and venom still won and sandman he’s useless against him he’ll get stuck like he did when he first attacked him symbiote or not as black suited Spider-Man is not venom he can’t cover sandman plus he can easily escape the tentacle hold he’s sand after all and he can’t do infections so he just dies or loses against him plus can his tentacles even cover sandman giant body in the first place ? That’s actually a genuine question because venom only did it because of the meteor and he’s not amped by it and his tentacles only covered a small arena 🤷. Anyways bloodlust won’t magically make him dodge faster or have them getting speed blitzed by his attacks especially those venom and sandman, lizard more so as he needed his tentacles to overpower him explicitly so red suited or normal Spider-Man might get killed by amped lizard in the game. Tombstone was said that he can take Spider-Man blows for days and not get harmed and he’s hella strong so he legitimately can’t pull punches against him. Rhino is literally stronger than him it’s shown throughout the games he needs to stun him with objects and can’t contend in a straight up fight as when they ran through the plant Spider-Man was knocked out meanwhile rhino was unhurt so yes rhino is more physically stronger than him. Scorpion is said to rival Spider-Man in power and nothing contradicts this he overpowers both Spider-Men with his tail and beats them in an instant with his poison but he’s contentious . So what I’m pretty much saying is base form Spider-Man no symbiote Amps was not nerfed he actually got buffs in the game to not make him completely irrelevant to miles. So I’m saying he can’t just one shot his villains like I see people say anytime he’s bought up cause they mistake comic Spider-Man for insomniac and other spidermen and just say all of them pull their punches.
@@TheGamingRift11 yeah he holds back against mooks cause cmon they’re mooks no arguing there
The downplay on miles is crazy
When?
Hey man I was wondering if I could use the Miles vs Peter section in the video to try and prove a point, I’ll give credit and everything
What’s the video about if you don’t mind me asking??
@@TheGamingRift11 I’m making a response video too another video called Peter objectively got nerfed in Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2 you actually commented on it funnily enough it’s from Ultamate Joker
@@krispykrb7081 yeah that video was god awful 😂 and judging by the response of those guys, it’s pretty obvious they don’t know their arse from their elbow
Yeah sure!! I don’t mind you giving me credit but more importantly, please notify me in some way when the video is finished as I like hearing other peoples opinions on the matter
@@TheGamingRift11 Haha, I gotchu. The points in that video are pretty bad that’s why I wanna make a video about it
@@krispykrb7081 didn’t he compare Insom to Tobey and stuff or some dumb shit 🤣
GOku has his fair share of getting his ass kicked. He just comes back stronger.
I don’t like how people try to say that he’s the weak because of the fridge if it just hit them on the chest, then maybe it would be him being NERFED but he got hit in the head anytime anyone’s ever been hit in the head in any superhero thing they’ve always been knocked out
He gets thrown through buildings and explosions in miles game and his own and is perfectly fine but a fridge hitting him on the head is going to stun him yeah no way this is either a nerf or bad writing.
@@spideyboy2358 in the first game he gets hit on the head from the crane and is knocked out for a couple seconds. Miles gets beat and punched in the second game. His game is taken by prowler.
@@spideyboy2358 in Miles game Peter also got beat by just rhino himself without miles he would’ve been dead
@@Derekmilewski a crane and a fridge do not compare one is 160 tons to 300 pounds so using the crane is bad example plus he received from the crane faster then the fridge.
@@Derekmilewski Peter was trying to save people from rhino and minimize property damage that is why he lost he also took at lot damage when both miles and peter went throw the huge tank miles got flunked off when Peter stayed going through explosion and buildings so he was all ready hurt no wonder he lost the fight .
Where in ps4 he was in a isolated area with nobody but rhino and scorpion and he beat both. He Beat rhino and did not even need venom power to beat rhino unlike miles who can’t even hurt rhino without his venom and when rhino got a suit that nullified venom he got knocked out by one slam compared to peter who took massive hits before going out rhino even created a shock wave from one of is his punch that hit peter so hard it knocked miles off the platform.
Thank you for making this video. I can't believe how dumb some people are, especially in these comments, with many literally inventing up source material to try and defend a completely invalid point. Everything you have said here and in response to others is so completely correct and I wish this was seen by the entire 'fan'-base. It seems people just conveniently forget all those times Pete had weaker moments in the other games haha.
Very welcome! I had fun making it
I think Peter was mentally making himself weaker, I think he psychologically doesn’t want to be Spider-Man anymore and it’s affecting him in the daily life. You can notice how his abilities go abit off
I think he just needs a break for a while
I think everyone complaining about spider-man in the second game are just powerscalers who think
Stronger character=Better character
Either that or they have their own interpretations of how every version of Peter should act based on his comic counterpart
If pete never held back hé might have stood a chance against kraven and he would’ve easely beaten Scorpion
He really wouldn’t have stood a chance
4:00 you forgot to mention that Peter fought this battle with broken ribs. The fact that he won with both electro and culture holding back is not an L on his part.
The point of that segment was that it was more or less a 1v1 as vulture was close to useless
@@TheGamingRift11 I don't believe that. Vulture isn't a major threat but he is no one to not take seriously. Peter is also A LOT dumber in Spider-man 2 and sometimes just gets hit for no reason. He got hit by lightning twice in the opening segment, his spider sense didn't go off for the lizard despite the fact that he had enhanced senses due to the symbiote.
He is bitch made in Spider-man 2.
@@Tharja-iBW miles also gets tagged by that lightning multiple times, almost as if Sandman is more than a match for both of them 🤷♂️
And again his spider sense doesn’t go off for many of the villains in the PS5 game, almost as if all of them are too fast for him and can blitz his senses
It’s not impossible to neg the spider sense, plenty of characters do it in the first game 🤷♂️
@@TheGamingRift11 Yeah he gets tagged and walks it off. Peter needs help from Miles in order to recover from it.
also there is nothing that Spider-man's spider sense can't warn him of unless it is moving at light speed, the dude can sense danger before it happens and can dodge automatic gun fire. There is no reason he shouldn't be able to sense the Lizard or Kraven, it makes zero narrative sense. it's called Pre-cognition for a reason.
and while it's possible to still surpass the spider sense his spider-sense doesn't never just not work like it did with the Lizard and Kraven. Both instances being with the symbiote.
@@Tharja-iBW it’s never once established that his spider sense requires light speed attacks to overwhelm it 🤷♂️ idk where you got that from
You seem to have a romanticised version of spiderman in your head which is different to insomniac spiderman
Silver sable overcame his spider sense and I doubt she’s anywhere close to light speed
Yuri throwing the restraining tech at him didn’t trigger the sense
Otto didn’t trigger the sense at multiple points in that encounter
Martin li didn’t trigger the sense in his encounter
The spider sense didn’t stop shocker from punching Peter through a bank door
Or help Peter evade attacks from kingpin - or successfully let him dodge the multiple toxin stabs from scorpion he got from the story
It’s pretty consistent for the spider sense to be overwhelmed in this series 🤷♂️
Here's the obvious thing IMO, Peter is absolutely stronger than he was in the game. He's at the peak of his powers but with the writing that he was given, he looked weak because he was written like he was somewhat of an incompetent guy. Not to mention that Miles was more competent than him in the game.
Given his trauma and that the villains were stronger than the first games villains (and also that Peter had 0 experience with some of them) I think it’s no surprise things turned out the way they did
@@TheGamingRift11 my biggest takeaway from the game is that he's mentally exhausted. His convo with Miles on the water tank on a rooftop showed us that Peter is mentally exhausted and the hero gig took too much from him. My only gripe from the story that made Peter look incompetent is how they made Miles into almost a Gary Stu character. I think they need to find a balance in that part of their writing in the next game.
In a weird way I think Peter being nerfed before gaining the symbiote powers made sense. That’s why he was so reluctant to lose it, hence his quote “it makes me a better spiderman” I think he was supposed to be burnt out and past his prime. Kind of seems like that’s what the writers intended.
I feel like the whole “past his prime” thing doesn’t work given that he’s only 25 🤷♂️ - although I do agree he’s likely burned out to an extent and wanting to settle down and live a more normal life with a healthy balance of hero and family time
@@TheGamingRift11 Maybe not physically, but mentally for sure. They definitely hint at him being past his prime for sure though. You can sometimes hear Yuri poking fun at him for “slowing down” after teaming up with her for random crimes around the city. At this point he’s been spiderman for like a decade so eventually he’s got to start slowing down a bit.
The villains did not hold back they’r strength they just didn’t want to kill him
Please re read your comment
“They didn’t hold back but they didn’t want to kill him”
Surely if they DIDN’T want to kill him, they’d be holding back? 🤣
As Spider-man myself I personally will say that I wasn't nerfed in my own game
You seemed to have entirely neglected the heart of the criticism, which is that Peter consistently does stupid things and is far more susceptible to being knocked out and just being all around a lot less self reliant.
Compared to what??
Also why is being susceptible to being knocked out a problem
I don’t want to be that one guy, and while you made some valid points, I don’t think that if Peter was as strong as you say that he would have his arm shattered by a villain he faced before, rocked by Venom, Miles, and Kraven all while buffed, and having Venoms direct weaknesses, and losing every major fight that Miles is present for. The two shouldn’t be on par in when peter gets the anti-venom yet they both do the exact same against Venom.
The Miles and Kraven examples are terrible as Peter would’ve won both of those had he actually not been holding back or at a disadvantage compared to Miles
And against Venom…. He could’ve killed both at multiple points in the fight 🤷♂️ Venom didn’t want to kill either of them
@@TheGamingRift11 how much can the holding back argument be made before it turns into coping? By your logic Peter was holding back during every single fight with Kraven.
And if Venom has both of them beaten, Peter being incapacitated and then knocked out, Miles just knocked, wouldn’t that out the two spidermen on relatively even ground?
@@kingdomcome4192 it isn’t coping at all and yes Peter did hold back in every fight with Kraven with the symbiote
At the church he got the serum to cure Connor’s before leaving the fight
In the final encounterThe symbiote urged Peter throughout the day and the boss fight to kill Kraven yet he didn’t - with Kraven himself remarking that Peter was still holding back….. there’s plenty of evidence supporting that Peter wasn’t going all out against Miles or Kraven…
@@kingdomcome4192 and no, given that the Anti Venom >> Symbiote Suit, which would already beat Miles if he wasn’t ridiculously nerfed
I’d recommend my Peter VS Miles vid where I broke it down in more detail
@@TheGamingRift11 this counter argument is valid, all the other points that you made for the most part are all super logical, the fridge and scream was super obvious symbiote fatigue, and him being iffy about hurting Miles also makes sense. Thank you for the breakdown man.
So I do personally think Peter got nerfed, and I’ll pinpoint every moment possible, starting from the Sandman fight in this comment.
Okay, it’s fine Peter launched himself at Marko the first time and he got stuck. A learning curve. Him getting hit by the fist after throwing the civilian at Miles was kinda off, as well as being grabbed by Marko… what REALLY bugged me was when he tried launching himself at Marko again. What was it going to achieve? Even brushing aside him not being able to move out of the way of his hand in mid air, why would he try launching himself at his face knowing he got stuck last time, which was a few minutes ago? Third, the small little tornado. Okay, bro had plenty of time to move, even Miles got out of there quick, that’s just ridiculous. And the THIRD time he tried launching himself at Marko after installing his web wings, WHY DOES BRO KEEP TRYING IT? I’m not gonna bring up the lightning cause that was unexpected, but bro, you’re trying the same moves and it’s clearly not working so do something else.
To his credit, Miles got thrown, tagged and almost sucked up, but least with those he quickly recovered and/or didn’t get in those situations because he was trying a technique that was clearly not working.
Tbh that likely worked in the past against a weaker Sandman, as the fight goes on they adapt and try different more effective Strats
I dont care which Spider-Man is stronger or weaker. But what I hate and cannot forgive, is for them to go with the "retired" Spider-Man Route. Peter "I can never look the other way again" Parker would never give up being Spider-Man. That goes against EVERYTHING his character stands for and his Uncle died for. To use this, to make Miles the main Spider-Man is an insulting to the character in my opinion. Also an insult towards Miles, because now he is only the "Main" Spider-Man because Peter doesnt want to be the main anymore.
Fuck Insomniac for that
…. There’s really no issue with that as Peter retires in a lot of SM media and it’s really not Imsons fault
- Steve Ditko run he retires
- SM2 Tobey retires
- TASM2 Andrew retires for all of 8 min of screentime
- TNAS Peter retires
- MCU Peter wants to give up etc
It’s really not an issue
@@TheGamingRift11 What you fail to mention is, that in the same stories, Peter realizes that he cant retire. That is the entire point of that Story element. And this time its not the case. Because Insomniac already stated that Miles is now the Main Spider-Man, as Peter is retiring for now.
@@1001pierre ….okay and Peter will almost certainly come to that realisation in SM3? 🤷♂️ or hell maybe we won’t have to wait that long
Maybe that’ll be the case in SM2 DLC 🤷♂️ don’t judge before it’s come out
@@1001pierreI think we didn't understand the scene in the same way because so many things is stating that Peter is retiring temporarily and that ofc he's gonna come "You can be Peter Parker for a while now" Yes the persona of Spider-Man is still important. I'm absolutely not denying, but there's still a man under this mask with his responsibilities and with a life to reorganize so, is that really suprising that he's taking a break for a while ? Also you guys keep forgetting that he's not gonna take them just to play around but he's also recreating the Emily-May foundation so he can help people on the long term, he's still being responsible. That's really why I can't take seriously people who sees this as problem when it makes perfect sense. MSM2 might have story problems, but this is not one them
No. You’re wrong. Spider-Man is suppose to be a literal tank. Insomniac doesn’t know shit about Spider-Man screw these writers. The real Spiderman wouldn’t have let some humans pour gasoline on him while he’s under a train. Maybe lift it up since you’re able to? And his spider sense bruh. Is was almost absent the whole game.
I mean….that is a take
Insomniac spider man is just too weak tbh😭😭😭😭
Most versions of spider man still beat their foe’s and don’t just het absolutely destroyed
Ultimate spider man fought the sinsiter six while being shot and HE WAS LITERALLY 15😭
Peter in this universe still beat the majority of his foes and it’s normal for Spiderman to get their asses kicked so idk what the issue is
Something Intresting about Shocker's death is that Kraven log's that he was the closest to defeating him. So Peter struggling to catch Herman in the previous game really doesn't seem that far fetched anymore. Peter was NOT nerfed. Glad you made a video about this stupid argument because I was going insane arguing with idiots saying he was nerfed. Loved this video man.
I forgot that audio log but you are right!! It’s also implied by Kraven that Shocker was trying to escape and not actually fighting!! - crazy stuff all round
Thank you for the positive feedback!! This was a fun (albeit time consuming) video to make 😂
@@TheGamingRift11 No problem. I loved this video. It was entertaining, engaging, intresting, factual and well edited.
The story about Spider-Man was never one about being the strongest. He is the one who stands up for the little guy. I think his legend became muddled due to the Spiderverse,MCU and to much use of tech. Underneath it all Peter Parkers powers are restrained only by his good nature. A spider by nature is not a creature that feels or shows emotion. And this is at the core of it. If Spider-Man should ever lose his good nature like shown in this story and becomes Evil not even Miles could ever hope to stop him as it will magnify his powers drastically. Peter Parkers care for the world,family and friends and his desire to make the world better and do good are basically his Achilles Heel. Admirable ofcourse but also a line of suffering for him as the guy deals with alot of loss along the way trying to push him off that path. And should he ever leave it he is potentially the most Evil Villain in the Marvel Universe. Forsaking Mind for Power.
I agree with this comment more than your other one
And that is ok is it not? I am a long time fan of Spider-Man and then i mean very long. I have seen so many variations come and go of the friendly neighbourhood Spider. Miles however for me is alot more new and recent. I see him more as a Jack of all trades. Parker the more focussed One. A fight between these 2 depends alot on the circumstances that would make them fight in the first place. And on that note i think either could win or lose. But for me personally if both Peter and Miles are in a levelheaded headspace simply fighting for who would win i just believe Peter would be the victor not even using his Symbiote form. That said i cannot see these two as they are in the game fight eachother unless it is to improve or help eachother. Never going fullout. For that to happen you either need another Spider-Verse or something pretty serious happened for them to go into a full out Spidey Battle. And you could argue that in this game Miles was not willing and Peter was not even fighting as himself. Not really with Venom on the background trapping his mind.
@@martywittenberg1427 yeah it’s all good. The Pete vs Mike’s comment was what I disagree with but it’s all good
I don’t think he was actually nerfed but Insomiac did overdo his beat down in Spider-Man 2 like making him do dumb things like try to punch sandman multiple times
Dumb things like trying to attack? 🤔 huh….
@@TheGamingRift11 nah not that but he tried to punch sandman a few times which he knows won’t work all that did was get him hurt
@@bobross2251 I mean yeah punching a skyscraper sized villain ain’t gunna achieve much unless you have miles abilities for example
Although I’m not sure how he was dumb in that fight when it was his plan which led to a victory
@@TheGamingRift11 I guess eventually they won yeah so it all worked out
This guy gets it!
Thanks bud
Simple, he's fighting MUCH STRONGER VILLANS
I am super confused if anyone who played Spider-Man 2 played Spider-Man 1. And I don't know if any of the negative reviewers even have a brain with their claims or if they're doing it for the sake of doing it or not. The whole "Peter's nerfed" argument was boosh to me from the start and i'm glad you covered it.
Thanks!! I’m glad you enjoyed the video
@@TheGamingRift11
No, thank *you* for giving me ammunition
@@brovideogaming9447 lock and load I guess 😇
Any suggestions for video topics?
@@TheGamingRift11
Not really, tbh. Even then this is the first video I watched from you, so I would have to check out your other content to see if a video idea wasn't already done.
Honestly I was more on the side of Peter being nerfed but not really as much as people claimed him to be
But you actually made me think otherwise that he got ever so slightly stronger in the second game!
The only "criticism" I would have is that the reason some people complain about miles is being stronger is that Miles is naturally better because of the electricity while the Anti Venom is kind of an add on for Peter
Although I guess your argument that Anti-Venom is integrated into Peter's biology so technically he is Naturally as strong as well now
Sooo yeah you're video was pretty good :D
Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it