I accidentally misspoke a couple times and I'm sure you guys will catch those parts so my apologies! I also forgot to mention that if we happen to see Jessie's father in Zacks world then that pretty much confirms it. Remember how Jessie felt like her dad was "stuck" in a place and hasn't fully returned to the planet? I believe this could be exactly what Zack and the others are experiencing. Hope you enjoy and thank you for watching!! Edit: Man this comment section tells me some people didn't even bother watching the video haha. Some of those points are addressed in the video and I literally say within the first 30 seconds that some points can be explained by the two timeline theory. I also mentioned that I don't have a firm stance on either theory. I created this video to see how plausible a single timeline would be. I couldn't care less about being correct lol
I welcome all theories and have fun discussing them with everyone but I think the issue with this theory is that you've constructed it so that it can never be disproven in a way while simultaneously suggesting that if we see certain things like Jessie's dad then that helps prove or even confirms its validity. A big component to why people think this isn't a situation where Zack and Biggs are dead in this prosed lifestream world is because we see Elmyra and Kyrie (besides Marlene). Your solution to this issue is that they appear because they are memories of Biggs (who could have met them) which in turn contributes to a shared dream for everyone in this world seeing these characters in this world of dead people even if they are alive in the main living world. Then you suggest that if we see Jessie's father in Zack's world then that confirms they are dead but at the same time if we see him it could also just be a memory of him according to your rules of this theory. So the way you constructed this anything can either be proof of them being dead in this lifestream world or that if they're not dead then they could just be a memory in this lifestream world. So no matter what we see with the way you've construed this your theory can never be disproven. Likewise, this idea that Jessie and Wedge being "dead" in Zack's world because they are alive in the other one becomes sort of irrelevant if they can be seen as alive through being a memory of Biggs in this shared consciousness lifestream world. The earlier points you made to explain Elmyra and Kyrie contradict the whole point of devising rules of characters being dead in one and alive in the other. We're all just having good non serious fun here, I'm just pointing a few things that I think are large issues with this theory.
Getting this out there before I watch to see how many points you hit on. It's always been a single timeline. In the ultimanias for remake -- you need to combine info from both on this topic-- look at the entries for Edge of Creation. In the scene concept, the pain in the start is described as Cloud forcing himself to move in a space where it seems time has stopped. 7 seconds to the end is written as referring to when the planet will die, once time resumes. And what is Sephiroth doing here? He is manipulating memories on a planetary scale; the planet's memories, the lifestream's memories. If you alter memory, you alter reality for an individual. If you alter the memories of a planet... you alter reality, history. If we look at the chronology, the first change to the timeline in what we see in remake is in fact making Zack survive. From there, everything changes. Zack is absent from every post-death scene that he speaks to Cloud in the OG, according to Nomura's Ultimania Omega for the OG, written after Before Crisis was made and into the ongoing compilation's development. Even in that, there's suggestions that winds are strong whenever the cries of the planet are heard. (In remake, when the whispers cry out before the final battles, Aerith refers to them as the cries of the planet.) In the recent rebirth trailer in Japanese, instead of Zack saying "I'm feeling every bullet..." (note the dot dot dot), he says "It was really windy." In both cases, you barely see a whisper flying into the path of the bullets. Zack's death/surviving event is September 17th. Cloud needs to get the buster sword and be abandoned at the sector 7 train station before October 5th, for all the events to still be exactly the same as OG or Remake in terms of Cloud. As for the significance, in Before Crisis, half of what forever dooms the planet is killed by the Turks when a bad man and Avalanche second in command named Fuhito summons the Zirconiade, also known as the World Ender. This World Ender appears in the sky during its formation as a large gray/blue cloud/fog/storm, and it is fan translated in the literal sense as the appearance of a "Pocket Dimension." More effectively localized, this would be called a "Singularity"... Like the one that appeared in Dirge... like the one that appeared in Remake... This happens when moving to fight a super-reality planetary system. Zirconiade, Omega Weapon, The Arbiters of Fate. With the destruction of the Zirconiade, the ability to forcefully reunite the global lifestream is lost, potentially dooming the planet. With the destruction of Omega Weapon, the ability to send the lifestream across the universe to a new lifeless rock to save itself, in a cycle described in Dirge as Rebirth, is lost and the planet will in fact permanently die at some point regardless of what the heroes do. This happens to be the point in which the planetary weapon we know as Genesis was activated, and Genesis referred to this as the "Start of the final act"... It's worth noting that the DLC for Remake is specifically referred to as Intermission... and hilarious that Sephiroth has repeatedly paraphrased Loveless to Cloud in remake and few have noticed... But speaking of Genesis, the animation for Rebirth is Genesis's limit break. ----- Going into what's going on.. on September 17th, Zack survives due to the intervention of four whispers. Throughout remake, exactly four whispers are constantly acting against the original game's course of events. As it happens, these four are depicted in Sephiroth's key art. These four emerge from Sephiroth's chest during the very last attacks of the final fight's cinematic before the Edge of Creation. These four are in the room with Cloud in the scene where Sephiroth's voice actors is the voice of the whisper that tells Cloud to sleep in *every* *single* *language.* When fighting them, one of these four will become the Enigmatic Spectre. You will always defeat the Enigmatic spectre four times. There are four whispers that make sure Wedge stands exactly where he needs to in order to survive, and four that finish him off when he is no longer necessary. Whenever the ultimanias describe the whispers and what they are doing, the four and their intention is never referred to, or included in what the rest are doing. It's almost as if they are separate... Barret splits from the sector 5 Avalanche sect completely in October, specifically October 3rd. Tensions were high and he separated before, but they cut him off completely on October 3rd. Whenever he goes to see them, he often brought Marlene with him and left her to play at the orphanage with the other kids. This is why Marlene is there. Also, Marlene has known Cloud for months before the first scene with her in remake. It's December; December 12th specifically going on December 13th. It happens to be a Friday in chapter 3. School is in season. It's a Saturday on the day of the Sector 5 bombing, no classes. A Sunday while roaming Sector 5, which is why school is out at the leaf. Monday+ during platefall; Yuffie can see classes taking place in Sector 7. The scene where Zack is talking to Biggs is sometime after December 18th. In Before Crisis when the World Ender is defeated by the Turks including Cissinei, those turks who became the turks in exile were blasted from the singularity and appeared randomly all over the world. If Zack happens to be there, he, too, will be launched away and appear somewhere other than Midgar. As for weapons activating early, Jade Weapon is activated October 3rd. It is destroyed December 12th, the night of the first reactor bombing. Zack will likely have seen it first hand, as it hunts for those that defeat/handle the Zirconiade. Also fun: Sometime between September and the 1st of October is the day Cissinei goes to the church intent to break the news that Zack is dead, but hoping he's still alive. Aerith is not there, or even in Sector 5 at this time. But, Cissinei and the player turk are attacked by an avalanche anti-soldier unit called Raven, kickstarting the avalanche civil war. On October the 2nd, the leader of avalanche, who happened to be in sector 5 at the time and Barret happened to be wanting to propose his plans to actually do something to Shinra, is attacked and used to summon the Zirconiade. Kicking off the biggest event of Before Crisis...except Zack is now alive to see it.
Alternative: all the people we see in Zack’s timeline are people Cloud has met/interacted with. Elmyra. Marlene. Biggs. Even Kyrie. It’s CLOUD’S memories that are being altered to form Zack’s new reality.
Thank you!! Been saying this for years! Could also be Sephiroth screwing around and tainting the lifestream too due to him being inside of it. I’m no purist but come on, multiple timelines and multiverse stuff is completely overdone and risk free. This whole lifestream theory makes the most sense in the world of FF7. Plus according to the devs this trilogy will tie into Advent Children. Hopefully they don’t retcon it.
Alternative: all so-called timelines / world / realities are just shards of Cloud's memories. Saving the world = saving Cloud. After that Cloud wakes up in a hospital somewhere on Earth...
Going with your theory of Marlene being from Biggs' memory in the lifestream, theres an explanation for Elmyra also being Biggs' memory. Spoilers for Traces of two Pasts. Theres a character in Aeritj's story called X. He was a childhood friend of Aerith's and lived at the orphanage. Towards the end of Aerith's story, she and Tifa talk about X, and realise X might actually be Biggs
If you replay chapter 4 of remake, Jessie had a theory about her father's spirit being stuck in the heart of the planet. Maybe that's what's happening in Rebirth?
“We will be changing everything about ourselves “ probably means changing their fate. Their fate was predetermined before and was set on course by the whispers. But since they won the battle, they are now different and will become people that is unknown by fate itself.
yep also if red told everyone after that vision from the whispers that if they failed this fight this is their fate. So the story will change. Which i like. Technically two versions of ff7 remake. A what if scenario. I am interested how it goes on in february
Its really all just metaphorical, a lot of FFVII lore always was. A lot of this is simply going to be Sephiroth-Jenova mind fuckery, way more enhanced from the original.
The main reason I can't get behind the 'one timeline and Zack is in the lifestream' theory is that in the original and Crisis Core, Zack didn't die immediately on the battlefield, he had time to crawl along a bit, lie down a bit, talk for quite a long time to Cloud, and give him the buster sword. If this theory is true, and this is how the lifestream works here, Zack would have had to totally forget that last part of his life for no apparent reason? Plus how could he be interacting with characters like Kyrie who he simultaneously seems to not recognize/have never met before, and also exists in the real world? In fact, Kyrie is only 17 in FF7R ~ If he met her before, it would have been at least 5 years ago and she would have been 12... And why would Midgar be glowing/exploding in the real world AND in the lifestream at a totally different point in time? And then there's the different Stamp for seemingly no reason. Sephiroth saying "The reunion. The merging of worlds" in the trailer. And why would Elmyra be talking about the end of the world? Why would Elmyra, Kyrie, and Marlene even be there? There are just way too many holes in this and hoops to need to jump through (which make more sense and could be way more easily explained with the multiple timelines idea) for me to get on board with it. Although the points in the video are fairly compelling, its mostly based on (often contradictory) personal interpretations of certain developer comments which have all been translated (at least once ~ I remember some developer interviews were conducted with Italian publications, which means they have probably been translated from Japanese to Italian, and then from Italian to English). Words here and there have almost certainly been mistranslated or inaccurately translated, so I don't think they can be treated as gospel. Great video though, definite food for thought! Oh and the "What is fact and what is fiction?" line could very simply be referring to Sephiroth messing with Cloud and trying to imply that Tifa died and this Tifa is an imposter.
What's so exciting about FF7 remake compilation is that it raises these kinds of questions and creates these debates. It drives the desire to play the game even more because of the uncertainty.
Yes this is actually the exact reason part 1 ended like it did, said by Kitase himself. The og game's director. They wanted people to consistently speculate, theorize and talk about what was possible for Rebirth and beyond, once the party left Midgar. "The unknown journey will continue" doesn't mean that this just isn't FFVII anymore, only that we have no idea how they'll subvert our expectations for what we already know. Same thing for new fans, except they already know nothing haha
@@zerosolis6664except they are going out of their way to make sure new players know all the twists from the OG...re-releasing crisis core and advent children.
I am new to ff and remake was my goty 2020. Having the whole timelines and alternate universe is really bloated by now. I wish we just had a simple remake so a newcomer can enjoy a wonderful story.
I think it all comes down to execution. I’m not against two timelines, but if we have different timelines/alt universes it really depends on how well they tell the story. I hope it actually makes sense and doesn’t become too convoluted. I’m excited either way though!
Exactly - the way I see it, the devs didn't write up an entire plot device (the Whispers) and say a bunch of heavy handed language and themes on changing fate/destiny/the unknown adventure continues etc to end up not actually changing anything in the end. What's the point of setting the story up to defy fate then go "sorry we didn't mean HER fate though lolz." Doesn't make sense. If they set up the entire remake to shove the concept of defying predestination down our throats, you better believe that applies to Aerith's death, too. Aerith's death is one of the most iconic moments in gaming history.. what's the one thing everyone wants to see in terms of changing fate/destiny? Aeriths death. The heroes defeated Sephiroth (ish) and saved the world. There's absolutely no reason to back to change fate and remake the entire story where the heroes already won if not to save the person whose death traumatized an entire generation. I just cannot fathom a reason for all this fate/destiny plot device shit just to rehash the heroes' win in the original/advent children. I think they created these plot devices to give themselves and us an opportunity to ACTUALLY change things - namely, saving her. At least I think that'd be the best outcome. The story will feel so much more epic, mysterious, fresh, exciting, and meaningful if we defied destiny/fate to save her, and she helps save the world again. That seems like a much better use of the remake to me.
So, I think the dead bodies of tifa and friends, is just a another way to show us its a different place. Just like how they slow down on the flyer of the dog. We, as the audience, can use that to tell its not the same place as the main games story.
I think that Sephiroth and Aerith travel back in time from the original game timeline to the Remake timeline via the Life stream and they are working against each other throughout the remake.
I can see that! I kind of did another video with a similar thought process but I get pretty wild with it haha. They clearly have knowledge of the original events
I like the Lifestream timeline idea otherwise the quantum theory many worlds multiverse vibes would indicate there are between 1 billion and infinite timelines so let's pray it's a Lifestream timeline only lol !!!!!!
I think the story will be exactly as the developers say it will be and not change the OG at all. They are just adding elements to give extra context to what happened in OG and also expanding on existing things. I think the whole Zack story in the end will explain how the planet was able to stop meteor. I think Sephiroth and Aerith dont know any more than what they knew in the OG but developers are just fleshing them out so the player can really see that they're in touch with the lifestream. The whole whispers thing is just to show all the bs Sephiroth has to go through in order to come back, just as he did in the 1st game.
@@SilverSisu I hope so, and it seems that way. But thats exactly what they want, to keep a balance of creating doubt and anticipation while also not pissing off the OG fans
@@Alvin-xs7db i have seen all interviews from devs. This is not going to be 1:1 game. Not even close. Nomura stated that there will be 3 parallel worlds that form the plot. Kitase and Hamaguchi promises a surprising turn of an even on Aerith's scene in forgotten Capital and Motomu Toriyama stated that Rebirth's story will diverge heavily from og story. The devs were asked why the name Rebirth? They said that name Rebirth symbolizes "a myriad of fates being rebirthed anew." Trust me things are going to be different. The core plot may stay the same but outcomes will probably be atleast somewhat different.
its literally listed as a "reimaging" of ff7 which means its open to have the story altered. the planet didn't stop meteor did it, you can clearly see it hitting the earth. the ending the culminated in red and his offspring ONLY alive in a barren dead world! Why are people so certain that the OG ended well for cloud? xD we have zero confirmation of that
think about it, its totally something square would do as well, leave a game open to interpretation for decades only to come in with a reason later on and all the signs of been there this whole time
As for the the crew being dead in the trailer, that can be explained because like in OG Shinra claimed Avalanche destroyed the pillar and were killed by Shinra. So that media showing their dead bodies is a fake story to make everyone think Shinra protected them.
The crew is dead in (Zacks) timeline and I'm willing to bet Zack will have to go to the Shinra Building and get Aeriths body's and bring it back ! That's why he has Elmyra (and Marlene lol) watch Clouds body as well
@@JMartini810 I guess that could be the case for rebirth but it doesn't change the fact that an OG shinra faked the deaths of avalanche after the pillars we're destroyed. So they could be making a version where it is true that they really did die but like I said going back to the OG stuff when they showed the videos people were wondering how are they dead it's because most people don't know or don't remember or don't care that in the OG version shinra faked their death.
I think zacks world isnt really a timeline its more like a different reality i saw a really cool theory vid yesterday and it got me thinking what if zacks world is actually the world that sephiroth wants to create? A world where everything that happened in the original ff7 doesn't happen. I dont know exactly how it would work but i dont know i think it could be really cool.
That’s similar to a theory I did for my very first two videos! Basically Sephiroth is deceiving the party in a ‘false world’ born from the memories of the Lifestream based on the events of OGFF7, and Zacks world is the “true” world and the world where Sephiroths plan can come to fruition. Only I get a little batshit crazy with my theory haha.
Im cool with anything either its a multiple timeline or only single one, i saw this vids suggesting one timeline about a stagnant lifestream i think it has similarities with op theory ruclips.net/video/jmgAZU3PRSY/видео.htmlsi=Gb6RaKrhQjFHjlxR
@@EikonicGamer maybe thats why they are in a coma state it could make sense. Aerith will die in one reality just to wake up in the other and also aeriths mom said in one of the trailers that "the world is ending" so my guess is that we will have to make it so that fate corrects itself and everything that happens in the og actually happens. So by saying we can defy fate they are just giving us false hope cause in the end the og timeline must occur for the planet to be saved. Thats my theory, A game theory. 🤣
@@ignacio1887 part of me thinks it’s Cloud replaying the amnesia sequence we see later on in the OG FF7 and he is trying to put back together his memories.
@@ignacio1887woahhhh this even brings to mind actually creating something out of "the Promised Land"! Holy fuck your theory is badass. That would do nothing but enhance the original story from something thats already present. Sephiroth could even be portrayed to have deep regret for letting go of his humanity, and wanting to create his "new world" in a way to atone for all he's done and create a new paradise. Maybe we are stretching, but theorizing is fun! Just don't let it disappoint y'all when none of this is true lmao
Marlene is a Barrett's adopted daughter bigg was a member of avalanche so he interacted with her means Biggs is dead and is in a life stream his memories are add to li
This is a really well-articulated theory. Obviously the "lifestream" theory has been around for a bit but I've never given it much credence until now. I still have niggling doubts but it makes a lot of sense as well. I think the main issue I would have with this is that it kind of goes against the motif of defying fate/destiny - if everything eventually runs the same path it's essentially saying "No, tough luck, destiny/fate is immutable", which tbh, I would find a little underwhelming. That being said, it's what the Devs are alluding to with all the talk of not changing the core FF7 story, although I'm not 100% convinced that we can take at face value what they're saying at this point.
For your ending doubts, Sephiroth wants to leak his corrupted Lifestream Matrix into the real world somehow and merging it into one freak show zombie reality possibly. You know what there might be a enhanced Zack or Zack and Aerith vs Sephiroth boss to beat lifestream Sephiroth and ban him from entering again.
I find people's fixation on Zack to keep being dead is weird. The two timeline, and this one timeline + one lifestream theory of yours, clearly made with fixation over seeing dead Zack...it's filled with things that you only see as makes sense due to confirmation bias. Here's the fact, Whispers lore says that they're entities that transcends time and space, Whisper Croceo and its two other companions in game lore says that they travel back from the future to fight off anyone who tried to change destiny. In the OG lore, the Avalanche trio are all dead, you can't have one one or two end up alive due to their seemingly forced by whispers fate being undone after beating Whisper...either all three keep being dead along with Zack, or all three alive along with Zack. Everything in the game Remake, and everything shown so far the trailer for the upcoming Rebirth, shows that there is only one timeline AND Zack along with everyone who dies in the OG during Midgar section does come out alive again. The different dog snack logo is quite honestly the dumbest most brain dead argument point for two timeline. It's like you never see Chitatos with more than one variations of packaging art...do we even exist in the same real world here? As for the crossed vs not crossed wanted poster, that can simply shows different timeframe... it's a Final Fantasy game trailer after all, when did we ever see the whole context of them in an orderly manner? When talking about analysing Final Fantasy trailers, the simplest answer more often than not is the truth. Just because the title is Final Fantasy, doesn't means that the story will be fantastically complicated. They did always keep it scientifically logical though...so stay scientifically logical, if the time traveling fate enforcer are beaten, what will happen? Yes, everything it's ever done in the timeline is undone, and the timeline history will revert back to its free course. Just like when you destroy a dam, the river flow will be as free as it's naturally meant to be. Sure, there will still be some "staying" changes from its natural state due to existing rubbles of the destroyed dam, it's not going to go back to dam-less state unless all rubbles are removed. Sephiroth and Aerith with their OG memories will still be there, and affecting the free course of the history of the timeline going further... they're the rubbles of the dam.
I'd say that the only legit question will be how they're going to deal with the fact that Barret being stabbed by Sephiroth and get the wound being undone by whisper. If I'm to guess, he'll probably be saved from the undoing of whisper intervention effect by the fact that he's one of the group who beat the whisper and caused the destruction of the "timeline dam". It's similar to the memory retaining aspect of the hero who changes history.
And yes, of course it will still add up or linked to Advent Children l. It's a sequel with Sephiroth having memory after Advent Children after all. Sephiroth in the Remake is either time traveling from after Advent Children or after Dirge of Cerberus, it's the same Sephiroth as the OG one. So far he's the only one that's shown to be the exact same person as in the OG instead of past life version of the OG FF7 Advent Children characters.
Anyway, what I think will happen based on existing lores and teaser trailers is as follow.... We will get to play two protagonists on different timeframes (not different timeline) in the history of the timeline. It could be all within a single complete game, or could also be Zack in a DLC like Yuffie was with Integrade. First, we will play Zack during the 6 months timeframes between Crisis Core and the beginning of OG/Remake, then during the timeframe of Remake outside of Midgar, and after the downfall of the plate disaster. There will be timeskips similar to how the story of Crisis Core presented. During 6 months before Remake period, we will see Zack meeting and cooperating with Avalanche members in hiding, since he's pretty much a wanted Ex-SOLDIER after what happens in Crisis Core. Then we will see Zack adventure outside of Midgar, after Cloud wakes up from his state of delirium. Zack possibly following Avalanche outside of Midgar. After a bit of timeskip, Zack will hear about what happen in Midgar and decided to return to Midgar to make sure everyone's safety. The scene where we see Zack talking to Marlene and Biggs, and the scene where we see Marlene's dad talking with Barret, that could be in the timeframe before Remake or after. What Marlene and Biggs says to Zack didn't actually specify the context of who they're talking about. That to say, I also lean toward Zack talking with Marlene and Biggs after the plate disaster. I'm guessing the possibility that Cloud party is actually the one that's having a comatose dream within the lifestream. After all, Cloud party was the one that went into the Lifestream to confront Sephiroth and Whisper Harbinger at the final hour of Remake. In hindsight, it doesn't really makes much sense for them to come out on top of a hill outside of Midgar. In liklihood, they left their real body in comatose, and that's what we see on the trailer where Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Red XIII are hauled into a Shinra chopper. Noticed there is no Cloud's body there? It explains that Cloud's body is already taken by Zack before Shinra arrived on the scene. The Clpud behind Zack and Marlene there possibly the one after Remake, not the one after Crisis Core. So, in the immediate timeframe after Remake ending, we'll probably plays Zack accompanied by Biggs, and possibly also Yuffie, to take back comatose bodies of the Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Red XIII...wih the help of main Avalanche troops. We might also see Zack fending off Roche during the recovery effret. Anyway, Marlene saying "When she wakes up, the bad guy will kill her" probably alluding to Aerith being killed by Sephiroth in the OG. Just like Red XIII, Marlene was being given OG memories by Aerith in the Remake. As for Cloud's Rebirth gameplays, major part of it probably within the dream while he's being comatose, and ended with them waking up, which signify the title of Rebirth. There is a possibility that what we'll see in the dream is the party reliving parts of the OGFF7 story. Either that or they simply wake up after their body recovered, and we see them doing all those adventures seen in the trailer lol
Have you read The Maiden Who Travels the Planet? It's about Aerith traversing the lifestream from the end of disk 1 up until the final cutscene Being a Cetra she can maintain herself there as she wishes and she can pull back souls that are disolving into the lifestream to speak to them Zack is one of them iirc, it has been ages since I've read it
I wouldn't mind Zack being in the timeline. That'd make sense. The only thing kinda infuriating in that case is: why the f did they create the whole very confusing and unnecessary Whispers plot point if the events of the main story don't change in the slightest and if Zack's involvment is just there to explain why the lifestream came to save the planet from Meteor after Holy failed ? 😅😢
The whispers seem to be what help to dissolve souls back into the heart of the planet. They carry souls to their fate. And they also carry the planet to its inevitable fate too. So they are essential in understanding how Sephiroth survived the lifestream. How Aerith survives the lifestream. And how Zack survived the lifestream. Their will to live overpowers the winds of fate. And when their fate (oblivion at the heart of the planet) is broken, they can persist in the lifestream. Sephiroth of course has been doing this for nefarious purposes ever since he fell into the reactor at Nibelheim at the hands of Cloud. The Whispers showing up appear to be a portrayal of how Sephiroth is resisting the will of the lifestream, causing the fate of the planet to change. The music at the start of the game also shifts and turns ominous as you see his black feather fall.
@@ash_yt0 sure but it makes the story of the whole remake trilogy needlessly over-bloated, especially for newcomers. 😒 You can just explain later with a sentence that Sephiroth had the willpower to survive inside the lifestream without adding an epic kaiju battle in an "upside down" version of Midgar at the end the first game. The point is, if nothing changes in the end and if everything was done only to tremple people's expectations by making them believe unrequired story modifications were coming anyway, then the addition was dubious at best.
@@Oleus(long comment incoming because I'm trying to be as detailed as possible) Bro...its definitely not that serious. "The unknown journey will continue" is metaphorical for both old fans and new players. Just because this is a remake, doesn't mean you automatically are prepared for and know everything thats gonna happen. As an example, of course Wall Market was the exact same, but cranked up to fucking 50 and had so many new quirky and weird characters, which is super true to FFVII. Its been "an unknown journey" since you pressed New Game on part 1. The Whispers, just like Red already said, are basically "guardians of time", they are just another layer of the Planet's defenses like the Weapons. They are playing with the fact of the Planet being a sentient being and adding more nuance to the Lifestream. What more could you want? Its also a bit of dramatic irony in the sense that they're showing the party their "fate" and what awaits at (what old fans know is) the end of FFVII. Why? Because they're gonna change it and make it wild. I've always thought much of FFVII became underwhelming as shit as the years went by and gaming evolved. Been wanting a remake for fucking forever. Its already amazing and Rebirth is taking it to the next level. Sephiroth still wants the Black Materia, he's still gonna fuck with Cloud and the gang. Cloud is still not really Cloud. Etc. What is really going to change is the sequence of events, subverting how we think many things will happen, along with brand new additions and perhaps brand new ending. I could even see this other reality that Zack is supposedly in becoming a key point. The Whispers are not unnecessary by any means and aren't "plot ghosts" either (stupidest surface level take I've ever seen from the internet, shouldn't have ever gotten widespread). Ever wonder why Aerith would say something like "I could see them ever since I was a child." "Every time the Whispers touch me, I lose something. A part of myself."? Come on man, think a bit. Why were they visible in the PAST when Zack was fighting his last stand, when he had nothing to do with them? They are omnipresent! When the party "fought" them, they were also wreaking havoc in Midgar in the past. Thats my theory on that. But why all of this? Because they are a part of the LIFESTREAM. Aerith is a CETRA. She can commune with the Planet and connect with the Lifestream. Every time the Whispers "touch" her, she probably "loses a part of herself" because she's being in contact with the Lifestream, perhaps even being told more of what events are to come. Aerith has always seemed...different, like she always knew more than she let on even in the original game. That was insanely hard to show in the 1990s storytelling though, so they only really did just before she went into the Temple. She knew what she was doing and what would happen, 100%. Then again, its possible that some instances of the Whispers are Sephiroth-Jenova mind fuckery, just like the og game was full of. Anyway, Bugenhagen will tell us a LOT when we get to Cosmo Canyon you can be sure
I so much hope you’re right, what you describe here would be infinitely better than timelines and the overused plot device they are and fit FFVII loads better (and I would have to give the devs extra special kudos for the stamp bag red herring and keeping us on the edge of our seats for years too).
I guess we’ll see! Personally I’m excited for whatever direction they go. There are some discrepancies with this theory, but perhaps it’s because we don’t really have the full picture yet so it’s hard for it to fully make sense. At the end of the day my only hope is the game at least makes sense, and it has a solid ending to part 3.
Okay something i just remembered and while i dont know if it adds to much it make me think twice about "alternate timelines or multiple at the same time" At the end when they go to confront "sephiroth" they get visions of, as red 13 says "vision of the future if we fail here today" If this is all still meant to link up with Advent Children it would mean that ultimately, we are being told they do fail and nothing changes. This kind of goes in with a bland theory i had of the whispers/fate not actually being defeated. But leading everyone to feel that they have broken away from their "original fates" and now have complete freedom. I dunno id have to go back and find what i wrote down.. it was bland af but.. i definitely preferred that over a multiverse trashfest
I would rather they not retcon the original game. I'm fine with them changing things up for the remake, and acknowledging such with the Whispers, but I would rather they not go too far off the rails and start changing all sorts of stuff just for the sake of it. If it's an interesting change, that can be cool. They don't need to start killing random characters though. Aerith's death had major relevance to the events that followed and is part of Cloud's character development arc. Killing more people is pointless, and they need a good reason for bringing Zack back to life considering that his death in the original was also a large plot element for Cloud.
Aerith dying is completely fine but then again her surviving and changing the world so 400-500 years later imagine Nanaki telling the tales of his youth and an Aerith clean energy company making humanity boom! Well that would a twist for another time lol. EDIT: this would also make defeating the Whispers (at least the big one as maybe defeating all Whispers is impossible) and overcoming planet's fate with Aerith keeping herself and the planet alive more sweeter.
I agree, there is only 1 timeline and all scene with dead characters are happening in the lifestream. But I believe that when people return to the lifestream, they dont have active consciousness, it's more like a dream state where they are experiencing it individually but have no control over what's going on. It is only the Cetra, and those strong with the lifestream, that are able to regain consciousness in there. That's why Aerith died first before he was able to manipulate the lifestream. This ability is the same with Jenova and Sephiroth, they too can retain consciousness in the lifestream and able to manipulate it. I believe this is how to corrupt thise passive consciousness, giving them despair, and eventually becomes a whisper, and control them. Those scene with the dead characters, I predict it will be getting darker later due to despair, an indicator that Jenova a.k.a Harbinger is succeeding. One thing to note as well, although they died, they came to the lifestream on a different time. Zack is probably able to retain consciousness and so he can at least visits Biggs dream state, probably. But he is not as strong as Sephiroth or Aerith to manipulate the lifestream. They will need Aerith's help to trully regain consciousness
I like this theory! Perhaps even more than the two-timeline theory. Rather than convoluted time manipulation stuff, which has been overdone in stories imo, have the lifestream play a key role into it. That feels more true to the spirit of FF7.
Before I watch the video, I was already tracking this from FFVII Remake. There is one timeline however as we see in the first one Sephiroth has access to the memories of the life stream and because of that he can project him self into his past self. The concept has been around recently in Manga and other media but yeah its straight forward Idea of altering the timeline in what appears like time travel. Like in AoT the way Eren alters the past by projecting memories into the past and future. FYI not being a dick, just stating what I already gathered from Remake. I am about to watch your video in a few min.
Body explanation. Single timeline. Nojima gave a post written from Cloud's perspective. The party went into the portal, fought the whispers, they appeared in a white space. Then they were outside midgar. Cloud remembers it all. But to them, Cloud just appeared after, out of nowhere. What if you just move the bodies and dump them outside to see what happens, because Rufus. In before crisis when entering the singularity, its implied they just fell over on the other side despite all they remembered.
Lifestream is the collective subconciousness of everything that’s ever lived, so it has everyone in there from past present and future. I’m almost 99% sure there’s no separate timelines, Zack is in the life stream. The story is going to be largely the same as the OG.
That "future" part is really doubtful. I don't think it's logical to think that Sephiroth knew exactly when, how and where will Cloud, Aerith and the others die and yet he still decided to follow this stupid "fate" of his to his ultimate defeat. Though it would have sense if Remake really is a sequel and in the end Seph would win but first of all it's still retcon and secondly Square would never leave any of them win once and for all at this point.
one of the bitg questions if you listen to the developers is why does sephiroth keep losing on purpose? they said he only ever used 50% of his full power which means he not only held back everytime against cloud but he is actualy twice a sstrong as what we have seen. he is after something,and if you keep losing to someone on purpose it means you have plans for them in youre future.@@persona3rulez
@@Marcustheseer I'm pretty sure they've been speaking about Remake continuity only. Which would be logical if Remake continuity happens like in a parallel universe with the original Sephiroth who knows the future or something but if he knew the future even in the original continuity then it's just hilarious that he lost on purpose only for the planet apparently MAAAAAAYBE kill all the humanity anyway.
thing is you should listen to what sephiroth actualy says,he litteraly says "i wil not end nor wil i have you end" so he is clear he doesnt want cloud to die. it seems he wants to train cloud or convince him to team up with him and since sephiroth knows he wil not die in the lifestream he has as much time as he needs to get coud to his side. only question remains is wil cloud eventualy see his reason and does sephiroth know something we dont that can save the planet? and if cloud never comes arround wil sephiroth eventualy stop going easy on him and kill him. its funny how people overlook some things that even the developers gave hints to,the biggest villain of this story has also been overlooked and that jenovah,sephiroth is strong with her cells in him so how strong is she realy when she is 100% full of that power. by all means she should be even stronger then him,and it always felt like she was manipulating him,eventualy the writters wil make the story but i do feel its a huge missed chance not to look at these things.@@persona3rulez
For me a single timeline is the only thing that can save this for me. Remake broke my heart how much they changed. They did the hard part (characterisation etc) then they shit all over it with timelines, plot ghosts, no shinra HQ blood ruining scenes using the whispers and splitting the games so they dont feel like 1 cohesive experience. When they announced a remake, not one fan wanted timelines etc. A single timeline is the closest thing to keeping the OG for me.
Technically I think EVERYTHING in FF7 takes place in the lifestream. The lifestream is what gives shape to reality. But I think Zack's departure from the rest of the crew is down to his existence being free from the Whispers. They can no longer evaporate him with the winds of fate so he can dissolve into the lifestream. Which also mirrors Sephiroth who defied fate and survived dissolving the lifestream. And the consequences of this is that Zack and Sephiroth have their own worlds of existence separate to the main story of Cloud. But I agree that there is one PLANET (i.e. one story / timeline) where all these events are unfolding in parallel and intersecting.
I would honestly prefer it if was just one timeline UNLESS they have a really good plot relevant reason for their to BE two timelines. If there IS just one timeline, given what we have seen from the trailers so far, I think it would be along the lines of: When the party defeated fate the explosion altered not just the present but the past, however they, being in the epicenter were 'protected' from the changes. As a result the 'beagle' FF7 crew is now in the remade 'terrier' world. in said world Cloud and Zack arrive in midgar, Barrett, Tifa, Jessie, Wedge are presumably dead as a result of said changes to the world and meanwhile the crew from the OG universe is going on unaware of the changes that occured. The only thing that makes me doubt this is Yuffie and her story continuing despite still while being tied to the events of FF7 remake despite her not being near said fate explosion.
I am replaying the game again, and I noticed while going through the chapter with Jesse. There are clues into what’s going on with Jesse’s father, in the theory that Jesse has, that he is caught between some purgatory type of dimension. Biggs actually explains this to Cloud, while him, Biggs, and Wedge are walking towards the Shinra industrial plant. Also, the developers said in interviews leading up to the remake that there were certain type of premises that they were unable to express in the original game due to the hardware limitations of the PS1. So this dynamic between the lifestream and reality is actually their original plan for the game.
Btw. That scene where Biggs explains this to Cloud is unavoidable, non-cinematic dialogue. You have to listen to Biggs say that before you continue with the game. That means to developers wanted you to see this.
If you’ve completed Rebirth I really hope you put together another video of this theory because not only do I agree with you 100% but after completing Rebirth, I believe your theory is going to become 100% canon and I love it! What a way to retell the story :)
Haha I actually finished Rebirth yesterday and loved it! Rebirth revealed a lot of new things regarding timelines/worlds. I’m curious where they’re going with it in part 3. There’s a ton of new elements in Rebirth to dig into but I hope to get a video out soon! I’m playing it again right now haha
So they took the original story which already has a huge sprawling story that can get complicated, and now added 2 other timelines that changes certain events making it even more convoluted. And... people... think this is good lmfao
It has been confirmed that Zack is alive which means the events can't have taken place in the life stream so that can't be a 'theory' since it's confirmed. This also means that the three games are an alternate version of events from the original e.g.: a second time line.
It has also been confirmed Cloud used to be a First Class Soldier in his official character description😉 but believe me I’m aware of what’s been confirmed and what hasn’t. This is merely speculation and I don’t have a firm stance on any theory at this point to be honest lol
@@EikonicGamerhahaha I see what you did there (SPOILER WARNING) Cloud being a First Class with the wink because he was never a SOLIDER to begin with. God what a game this is gonna be. Can't wait for this shit
here's a thing, right now there's 2 timelines, which Sephiroth s hinted to merge, not because he want everyone to be happy, but because he wants to obtain something that can be obtained from both, could be the black materia or take something from Cloud and Zack, but as it is now, there's not a single time only. Your theory about what Zack's experience here is sounding close to Squall is Dead Theory, you know the dying dream, and also that Link is Dead Theory, A GAME THEORY!
Temporal paradox that has more than one version of the characters who were in the singularity at the end of remake. It's not multiple timelines it's not even parallel worlds. It's a single timeline that is experiencing temporal paradoxes, that's why you have small changes, like Stamp, and big changes like Zack being alive, and the party either dead or in a coma. When we step through the barrier of whispers-which Aerith manipulates beforehand the game make sure that the player knows we are inside of a singularity. The whispers combine into the harbinger, to try and protect the natural flow of time but we defeat them, and Sepherioth -who absorbs them, and the party comes out of the singularity outside of Midgar unaware that time was altered. Being inside the singularity means that they were unaffected by the time alterations. Zack's fight against the Shinra arm is the point at which time changed but our party from the events leading up to and including the singularity still exists. The whispers tried to kill us so that there would not be two versions of the party existing in the single altered timeline.
An explanation for the party on the stretchers is that its Shira’s propaganda. If you look at Barrett, he’s missing his tattoo. They did the same thing and the OG when they captured Barrett and Tifa they told everyone that they had captured and killed them all when they hadn’t.
I can personally see the tattoo. The lighting makes it difficult but it’s definitely there. But regardless of the tattoo are you suggesting that scene takes place in Clouds world and not Zacks? What do you think is going on with Zack? Thank you for commenting by the way!
I think that Zack is in the lifestream , and that his timeline is the lifestream with all the memories , In TOTP elmyras husband clay does something similar. Faking the deaths could have happened either from Zack’s point of view in his “world” or possibly the parties. it’s very fitting with what they did in the OG. I don’t know how I could be missing Barrett’s tattoo. That’s his non-gun arm and it’s supposed to be a skull with the red flames going all the way up. I’ll watch again maybe it’s because everyone’s all dirty. But yeah, going with the developers interviews. We really don’t know how the lifestream works and they are going to use Zack to explain it. I also think they are going to use this time to show Zack and Aeriths lifestream reunion their POV of how they end up together in the lifestream by AC and their POV of them using the live stream to stop meteor. I’m very excited no matter which way they they go with it.
The "timeline" can't be lifestream. It simply doesn't make any sense at all. There is no point that makes sense. People living in the lifestream while also living in clouds "timeline". It also means that the "lifestream" team got killed/beaten by someone or something before Zack and Cloud ever met anyone. That means they went on their usual way against Shinra without Zack or Cloud. Which also doesn't make sense. And about them being dead or not; it could easily be shinra being a propaganda machine by saying their are dead or imprisoned (it's shinras poster after all). I still may be wrong but nothing really points towards this theory.
I'm so conflicted on what outcome for the fates of the different characters I expect or even hope for at this point(god I cant wait for the game release aaaaa). Honestly, if we get Aerith and Cloud going down the same paths as the original, Hollow and No Promises are going to feel like two of the cruelest troll songs lol
My problem with making the story basically the same as the OG makes the whisper plot feel so pointless. They defy fate and introduce ambiguity just to have the story be the exact same? Seems so pointless. Why not just remake the game the exact same without this new seemingly unnecessary plot point.
I had to laugh when you mentioned the devs saying that we're all overthinking this, lol. There is no way anyone would catch on to all of this by just playing the game. It's fun and interesting to discuss, but a lot of this is getting to a place of pretty complex storytelling. I personally follow the two timeline theory, mostly because it just explains things in a cleaner way. For it to be a single timeline, things get a bit uncomfortable. But im not completely wed to any of the theories no matter how compelling they seem to be. It's like a few guesses to what will happen in Rebirth, and im gonna enjoy finding out how many were right and how completely wrong they were, lol.
I’m really starting to think that all the new Zack stuff that we can’t explain yet is just Square’s version of Wht he’s up to in a Limbo state. Almost like he’s waiting for Aerith and maybe we can see what Aerith will be up to after she dies. Like how she helps with Holy at the end. Maybe it has something to do with the end of Advent Children where Aerith and Zack kind of give a goodbye to Cloud. Maybe that’s another place? Definitely wouldnt mess with the Integrity of the original plot just some extra story from the “other side” 🤔
Pretty good breakdown however if you sticking to 1 timeline then the dead bodies in the trailer are just unconscious and it happens right after they leave singularity or later in story. and Seph merging of world is just his plan for part 3. or if you really want to go out there my Final Fantasy VII: Reincarnation Theory puts ff7 lore in on package
So, I'm no expert on this, but I'll give what I've thought since Remake: I think it's a single timeline and Zack's destiny was changed. When the party kills the whispers they're outside of time, killing them removes their influence on the events of this pivotal moment in time. It erases "destiny". Their influence extends at least as far back as Zack and his death is part of it. So that death is subverted and he lives on. This would mean either he is alive somewhere and the party just hasn't met him yet or that when they step back into the timeline it's been *changed* so that he is *now* alive somewhere out there. Provided he didn't die some other way between then and now. The STAMP thing I think is explained by this difference in times, the event we see where Zack lives is in the past. The mascot has just changed by the time of remake. If there's anything wrong with that let me know The trailers certainly throw some wrenches into things, just in general. I think they're inconclusive enough to just note and set aside for now because we don't really know what the red exes mean or if the instance of Barret, Tifa and Red XIII being on stretchers has anything to do with the plate fall or not. The scene of Zack trying to go to the church and finding it full of what seems to be plate survivers makes me wonder too, but it's hard to say. Could be that he's going there after the plate crash as we saw it in remake, where everyone was saved instead of the original where everyone died
There are actually 3 timelines, OG, Remake and the Dead Party, here is my reasoning and evidence. OG timeline - This is what happened in ff7 from 1997. Planet is saved, and 500 years later humans may not be alive. Remake Timeline - This is the OG timeline where the planet has created Whispers to funnel all timelines into one outcome. Any action that leads to a different conclusion where the planet dies is corrected. The Main game of Rebirth will follow this Timeline. Biggs and Jessie are dead, Wedge may still be alive he may also have died after the whispers grab him end of chapter 17 since he is not shown again. This timeline features signature Beagle and black feathers. Zack, Biggs, Jessie (and maybe wedge as explained) are dead. This story will run on like the OG game expect no major changes. Alternate Dead Party Timeline - The Remake party crosses over the crossroads of destiny into another Midgar where they fight the Whispers/Arbiter of fate. After this fight Midgar is heavily destroyed by Sephiroth. The party wins the fight but something happens, my best speculation is there are now 2 parties. One that exits Midgar and continues the journey, Cloud clutching a black feather, and another party which remains in broken post-Sephiroth Midgar and most of them die or are captured. The main party with the exception of a rescued Biggs and Aerith all seem to be dead or are missing/captured (2nd Rebirth trailer shows them on stretchers in a heavily damaged Midgar - Cloud is not seen though so maybe the party did everything without his involvement) In this reality Terrier timeline Zack and Cloud both survive the Shinra ambush and walk into a heavily damaged Midgar as white feathers are seen. Zak visits Aeriths house with Cloud, Elmyra probably does not know where Aerith is and agrees to look after Cloud. Zack then goes to the church (end of Intermission cutscene) and finds out Aerith is now in a coma or captured. Later we know Aerith to be back home in a Coma and Marlene who is also being looked after. This timeline features the Terrier, white feathers, golden whispy flakes. Everyone apart from Crisis Core Zack and Cloud, Biggs and Aerith are dead or at least captured. When the whispers died in Terrier Timeline there was an explosion which knocks Zack to the ground. This explosion rains down golden whispy flakes, which can be seen outside Biggs window at the Orphanage, the rebuilding of Sector 7 and Marlenes Window. This signifies to me Biggs is only alive here in this timeline. Jessie is definitely dead in both timelines, there is confusion as she appears in the Golden Saucer show in the last trailer. However reading the SquareEnix official page reveals that the backing dancers in the show were all VR performers, so Jessie is a pre-recorded dancer that will no doubt be recognised but not coming back. Feel free to reply, ive played the games to death and noticed a lot of things.
I think you can basically disregard OG FF7 as being canon in this Compilation version of FF7. So this is a new telling of the story. A reboot and separate from FF7 (although obviously will remain faithful to its story.) I don't think the Whispers are trying to save the planet, I think they're trying to ensure the planet follows its natural course toward the edge of creation. So the whispers are trying to ensure there are no unnatural interventions (like Sephiroth) which interrupt the planet's lifecycle. Sephiroth shows Cloud the end of the world, explains the planet will die, and says he doesn't want them to die and asks Cloud to defy destiny with him. So I think it's clear the Whispers are moving the planet toward its destruction. I think the lifecycle of the planet is to be born, and then slowly die. I think Cloud's 7 seconds to make a decision will lead to him in essence defying the Whispers and the fate of the planet. He causes the planet to survive Meteorfall, perhaps because Sephiroth plans to usurp the death of the planet to absorb the lifestream into himself and become a god. Basically the main thing I'd contend with your post, is the Whispers aren't trying to save the "original timeline" they are not plot ghosts. They are trying to preserve the planet's inevitable death. They are shaped like the grim reaper for a reason. They carried souls to their oblivion, and they guide the planet to its own oblivion also. The Whisper Harbinger is also the same colour as Jenova which could indicate both represent the apocalypse
@@ash_yt0 Its my understanding that the planet simply does what it needs to survive. And that would mean preventing Seph/Jenova winning in any other reality and achieving Godlike ability to transcend timelines to defeat the planets obvious timeline controls. Bugenhagen says that humans may or not be part of the planets future plan and 500 YL scene hints that it may be the case that humans will be taken away. The Edge of creation was not really explained, it could be the point of new timelines opening up where Sephiroth simply wants to make Cloud and his clones part of his future where he becomes a God. It just made sense to me that the timeline of OG>Remake>Advent which is canon according to the producers at least who said remake directly ties them all together (hence we now know no major plot changes that disqualify Advent will take place). Obviously this is all fiction, and we can only speculate and thats just my thoughts and reasons!
All the stuff people think is split timelines is just visions. Cloud thinks he’s Zack but we already know that so they have to hide that somehow, and Sephiroth can show visions to cloud bc he does it to show him nibelheim flash back. It’s just Sephiroth fucking with cloud. Ppl are nerds to much and overthink it, multi verse parallel verse multiple charcter etc etc…craziness and illogical
Thank you. THANK YOU. I was extremely disappointed/angry in the way I thought this might be heading but you've given me a little bit more hope in what this may actually turn out to be. I'm more excited now and you showed me things that I didn't see or hear about myself.
I've got to be honest, IF you're right.... You would have revitalized my interest in the remake. You're saying it's a game about dead people reliving their lives.... But they're dead. It's an interesting concept. I'm not too opposed to the series after hearing this theory anymore. I just hope you're right...
I think Sephiroth created a Matrix inside the Lifestream that's why Biggs and Zack are feeling alive and living their best life. Maybe it favours the ones who enter it and are reborn there.
One thing i understand is if AC is canon so whatever happens to those timeline aerith and zach are still dead in the planet where cloud,tifa and the group are alive.... so that's means in the end they can't be together so that what it is,,,,,or maybe there's a way to save them, i wish there was......
Honestly I will be curious to see how they fit zacks timeline in alongside the already massive story they are telling in the main one. Personally I think zacks timeline should be a whole other game, like a what if story, and keep this game focused on the main timeline. Because if there's anything that can potentially ruin this game it will be trying to tell both storys at the same time and doing a bad job of it. But still I am so looking forward to this game and to see what it has in store for us.
I think we’ll just get some cutscenes sprinkled in here and there and maybe some gameplay similar to FF8’s Laguna segments. I could be wrong but if we don’t get to play as Zack in Rebirth I think there’s a chance we’ll get segments playing as Zack and Aerith in part 3
In my blunt opinion. The Zack is in the lifestream theory is cope so people can believe that Zack died when he's actually alive. There are just way too many holes at this point and I think the evidence for it now crosses the threshold to where it is unprovable. If it's all a dream world from the planets memory, then who is to say that it's the main party that's dead and Zack is alive and in the real world? We saw their deaths, but we didn't see Zack die, so there is technically more evidence to support that. AFIAC, if these are worlds where people can live and die then there is no narrative purpose to call one the lifestream and the other reality.
The only totally brand new chapter included in FF7 Remake, was the one involving Jessie's dad, where he is in a coma much like the party members are in Zack's world. And it is explained by Wedge that he is trapped between his body and the heart of the planet in a type of limbo. Notice that Wedge doesn't say his mind is in another timeline or that he's a time-traveller, because none of that has ever been a part of FF7 lore. It has to do with the lifestream because the lifestream is the absolute core of the FF7 universe. So how exactly is it cope? They included a totally new chapter specifically to introduce this one idea.
@@ash_yt0 He has mako poisoning. And that's been a thing since the OG. It's what Cloud has just before the lifestream sequence. What hasn't been a thing since the OG are Whispers, Future Sephiroth, and Zack being alive.
In my humble opinion if we all remember the first encounter between cloud and Sefiroth in the remake the only one who saw him was cloud like a ghost if I can say to a certain level in the game and after that, all the characters can see him ( when the two worlds emerge ) I think the game wants to tell us there is a certain level cloud and other characters can see zack in the game in their perspective till the final revel to zack when can cloud see zack in his physical form to change the fate.
God damn it why are they giving so much of the story away? I don't want to hear about the story.. but I cant not watch some of these videos.. I try to instantly close the video as soon as they start talking about the story because why would anyone want to know anything about the story before even playing the game?
No point in buying this game data doesn’t transfer from ff7 remake to rebirth so just wait till the third stand alone game! Square has dropped the ball
no, the chips packet is displaying the butterfly effect. No the white feather is Angeal - and the black feather is Jenova, Only an Ancient can retain ones self in the lifestream, Jenova is not an ancient - no one in soldier can retain their self. Lucretica could be partially Cetra as to why Sephiroth can retain some of him self in the life stream. Jenova's regenerative abilities give soldiers the ability to not die in the mako. The problem is Advent children failed to keep true to the lore of FF7 - so did crisis core. Even the books are riddled with incorrect lore. This remake is to reset all of the lore and make it correct - that is why Crisis Core & Advent children are being remastered. Don't get me wrong I liked the video keep up your theory crafting it was good. *edit* Also when reading what the developers are saying you need to put it into context. They say In Final Fantasy VII Remake ( That is the first game this game is called Final Fantasy VII Rebirth ) The 3 people talking are often miss directing the audience. Nomura - is often refering to Ever Crisis, Or original. Kitase - Is often refering to original FF7, or Remake. Hamaguchi - Is often talking about Remake, they are not the new project FF7: Rebirth. They are being sneaky - and playing a 3 monkeys game. I very much enjoy what they are doing, it has created so much positive engagement - I am concerned that hearts maybe crushed when their favourite theory is not the outcome, but the original story is about loss so I guess it is fitting that people need to lose their presupposition of guessing the future - and - They need to Live in the moment of journey. Peace.
Not watching this, not reading comments. I have been able to avoid trailers, spoilers, and tons of online reaction videos to Rebirth... yeah me.... sob :( But I saw the above headline, and wanted to chime in.... I knew this, (single time line) after playing Remake to the end. I knew it was a sequel, and how Sephiroth comes back with knowledge of the past - OG game-. Cannot wait, just a month or so left !!
Its definitely not a sequel. They would have already said this, it is just a remake with added sauce because at this point FFVII is not one game it is a wider universe that got a lot added to it after 1997. This is just tying it all in a bow and realizing a lot of old concepts the devs had but could never fully use in the old hardware. They said this themselves
@@zerosolis6664 Nomura's has said it is a single time line. I am not wanting to spoil this for you. Jenova was able to create a singularity sending a simple thought back in time, to Sephiroth, allowing him to change his destiny. Events in OG, Advent Children, and remake set a new course at Zack's survival time point. Following Back to the Future, Groundhog day, whatever time travel, you have a single time line ... You have Crisis core, FF7OG, advent children, FF7remake -with remake being a sequel to FF7OG.
Not necessarily because it could just be the planets memories of them. There are definitely inconsistencies but I’m pretty much just trying to make sense of one timeline in this video
Your answer to why they didn't return to the live stream as they were destined to do and become part of the planet it said that when souls or spirits on the other side have a hard time dealing with the deaths they refused to join with the live stream energy and this has a tendency to happen is also referred to in final fantasy children's adventure but sometimes the dead have a hard letting go of regret remorse and hatred and it stays stuck in the life stream time does the refuse to move and for some reason Zach continues to relive the battle he died in and this is why I believe Biggs woke up in the orphanage because it was the last place he remembered before he died and the live stream we created this please see a flash of white light you often refers to the life stream
I don't think zach is in the lifestream because he wouldn't be all messed up and dirty if he died. Same with Biggs waking up with bandages on all over him. It would be messed up if you die, only to wake up still all beat up and have to limp your way through the afterlife. But hey, this game might go there.
Whatever the case, I still don't understand why they had to butcher the coherent OG story in favor of this fanfic anime trope overloaded retelling. I can't even show a spark of interest for the new story. It seems so unsalvageable to me, already after just pt1. Still going to love the gameplay though, they at least nailed that one.
You are aware there are actually 2 LifeStream's right ? there is the Normal Green one and the Jenova Lifestream which is corrupted. I agree with you on the whole its they are all dead in the lifestream though.
Joining the worlds as in merging reality with the world Sephiroth created? I don't know, you wanted a simple explanation so that is one, didn't he also say the world will end but I will not. Could be possible that Sephiroth wanted to create an alternate reality from his basement with all his veins jacked up in the matrix.
Nah bro. If zack is in lifestream. Everyone who's dead should be alive in lifestream. Because the memory doesn't die. And what about the worlds merge? We know that there is two or three wotlds from developers and the driving force of any world is time. So two world means two spaces and two times.
In FF7, souls dissolve into the lifestream when they die. The exception so far seems to only be Zack/Biggs and Sephiroth. Zack will not be able to visit any souls who have dissolved into the lifestream because their consciousness would no longer be part of the lifestream. The lifestream remembers them but that's exactly what they are, a memory, not a current manifestation within the present as Zack is. Also there are multiple "worlds" but only one planet. Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth are all within the same Planet, but they have their own world of existence. I would imagine the 7 seconds til the end will be a 3-way tug of war between Sephiroth's world, Cloud/Tifa's world and Zack/Aerith's world. And Sephiroth is trying to get Cloud to let Sephiroth's world win.
@@ash_yt0 souls can reject lifestream due they hatred. This is confirmed in the maiden who travels the planet. But only cetras or Sephiroth can be separate from it and act as their own will. If the lifestream can be considered another world (within the same planet) it does have the same timeline as the surface of the planet. I can't see how these two play out! Zack can't act in the lifestream or maybe they can give this ability to him considering he has jenova cells. But that way any other person who has the jenova cells would be able to do so including nearly a hundred clones of Sephiroth. I think we just need to see what will happen. Till that we don't know a damn thing really
@@aazhmaan Aerith turned the portal white after Sephiroth cut a black hole in the whispers. Which could mean she is the one who saved Zack's consciousness with that spell. I would view each soul as being its own world and story, but these worlds connect to each other through interactions. But the whispers are no longer guiding Zack and Sephiroth's interactions, which allows them to create new experiences of their own volition.
I agree that aerith saved zack and I didn't say that multiple worlds mean multiple planets. I believe there is ff7 original world with cloud and the party but the whispers can no longer intervene in this world. As nanaki said in the recap trailer. In same planet but different world is the zack messed up world that I don't know what is zack story in it. And there is a third world that Sephiroth wants to create or wants to complete the world he is already created. And I strongly believe that Sephiroth doesn't know that zack is still alive and zack gonna catch Sephiroth off guard in the end.
you need to play 13/2/3. i feel it will help you a lot. its canon that 13 10 and 7 are all linked. at the end of 13 saga the life stream is created. in 13-2 its confirmed that chaining the future has the Consequence of changing the past,the effects ripple up and down the timeline. you also see that the souls retain their memories in the life steam at the end of 13-3, also chaos is the negative lifestream the two were mixed before but now they are not from this its as if Sephiroth has control of the negative lifestream aka the chaos now its very interesting.
I have played the 13 series. It’s actually one of my favorites! However do you have a source from developers stating FF13 is canon to FF7? All FFs borrow some elements from each other but to say that FF13 is canon to FF7 is something I’ve never heard the developers mention. I know developers have made the connection with FF10 and FF7, but if they’ve never mentioned FF7 and FF13 are linked then it’s not canon and it’s merely speculation.
I'm leaning more towards Zack existing in the life stream and being blocked by Jenova from returning to the planet, which is actually in the original compilation.
Haha thank you for your kind words! But come on dude this is nothing compared to other creators far more talented than me. I’d probably put Maximilian dood to sleep lol. Your words really mean a lot to me though and motivate me to continue improving
This is pretty good. Kyrie literally doesn't know anybody though really and she is alive and well in both worlds. Also, the sleeping Cloud in Zack's world, which you didn't touch on at all for some reason, could be the same Cloud we see saying, "Re..ui...nion." in one of the early trailers. This in itself could lead to some crazy theories lol. I really urge you to watch the 1 hour time travel theory video that is making the rounds. The amount of evidence from the OG to support this theory, as well the Remake, is incredibly detailed and compelling. I really do think "Future" Sephiroth is trying to make a "Purgatory" world, Zack's world, where life and death do not exist. A world without the life streams influence so he can rule as a god. He is going to do things differently this time, most likely and including, not killing Aerith at the Forgotten Capital, although I do think she dies somewhere. I also think that Aerith had something to do with Zack's perceived survival, to combat Sephiroth in his "reality", as Sephiroth keeping Zack alive makes no sense as he's probably the 2nd strongest SOLDIER to ever exist, unless he can somehow activate the Jenova cells in Zack and turn him into his instrument, which is a whole other theory I have lol. So many moving parts to every theory though. This is why I like that it's not a true 1 to 1. Otherwise, there would be no hype really, and nothing to talk about. And, this is one of the main reasons that I can comfortably say that this is my most hyped game ever.
Thanks for commenting dude! And I actually touch on Cloud in a separate video and you're correct its a wild theory lol. I didn't specifically talk about him in this video though because I focused on the wanted posters to compare the two worlds and he's absent from them. But when I refer to everyone being "dead" in Zacks world, that of course includes Cloud, Aerith, and Red XIII. And I'm gonna be honest man I don't know if I have an hour to spare to watch that lol. I hardly watch youtube videos as it is simply because I don't have the time. But link it anyways in case I get around to it! Perhaps I can watch it in chunks while I'm on lunch break or something. It sounds kind of similar to my very first two videos I did. Basically that the world we see Zack in is "true" world that Sephiroth created, and where his plan can come to fruition, while the world Cloud is in is basically a distraction so Sephiroth can succeed. I also touch on how Zack may have been an oversight to Sephiroths plan and may be the reason his plan fails in the end. I have to agree with you on this not being a 1 to 1 Remake! You're absolutely right. If it was 1 to 1 really the only thing we could discuss are moments we're looking forward to, but now we get to discuss so much more!
@@EikonicGamer Yeah man! My bad, didn’t know you already went over, let’s call him, Alt-Cloud, which to me, may even be more interesting than Zack haha. Regardless of what happens, I think we can agree that this game is about to be a journey.
God you get it. Im not sure what they're going to go for in the end just yet, I can't wait to be on this wild ride but there is def not some crazy multiple timelines thing going on. Kitase himself explained that the main reason for part 1's ending was to create hype and buzz surrounding the game and to keep consistent discussion and speculation happening so that the fandom wouldn't lose steam when Rebirth finally came out. Its been 4 years, if there was nothing to theorize for old fans, new fans would eventually be stuck like okay wtf what happens next, and the only thing keeping the excitement alive would be "ahhhh what a nice nostalgia trip that was....anyway moving on" which would not only have been disappointing and boring for many old fans by the time the next part came, but also for the devs!! In the end they are also doing this remake for their own enjoyment. Instead, new players seeing the characters be shown that some horrible destiny/future awaits them, and they don't accept it (alluding to them having a whole new endgame in store for us that surpasses the original, easily), not only creates excitement for what comes next, but gives more concrete reason for the characters to go around the world chasing Sephiroth to stop him and doing everything else along the way, along with some new stuff! In the original, you don't know jack shit about the real threat of the game or even who tf Sephiroth even is by the time you leave Midgar. Nowadays that would be incredibly weak writing and storytelling and I will not let nostalgia allow me to think otherwise. Now I know exactly how much of a looming, mindfuckery threat Sephiroth and Jenova are, and the Nibelheim flashback is going to humanize him a bit to new players as well, showing them HOW he got to this twisted version of himself. Its genius!
![BAK Jay - Find Out (For Your Love) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/10FJO_XBCvY/mqdefault.jpg)
I accidentally misspoke a couple times and I'm sure you guys will catch those parts so my apologies! I also forgot to mention that if we happen to see Jessie's father in Zacks world then that pretty much confirms it. Remember how Jessie felt like her dad was "stuck" in a place and hasn't fully returned to the planet? I believe this could be exactly what Zack and the others are experiencing. Hope you enjoy and thank you for watching!!
Edit: Man this comment section tells me some people didn't even bother watching the video haha. Some of those points are addressed in the video and I literally say within the first 30 seconds that some points can be explained by the two timeline theory. I also mentioned that I don't have a firm stance on either theory. I created this video to see how plausible a single timeline would be. I couldn't care less about being correct lol
Great point on Jessi’s dad
I welcome all theories and have fun discussing them with everyone but I think the issue with this theory is that you've constructed it so that it can never be disproven in a way while simultaneously suggesting that if we see certain things like Jessie's dad then that helps prove or even confirms its validity.
A big component to why people think this isn't a situation where Zack and Biggs are dead in this prosed lifestream world is because we see Elmyra and Kyrie (besides Marlene). Your solution to this issue is that they appear because they are memories of Biggs (who could have met them) which in turn contributes to a shared dream for everyone in this world seeing these characters in this world of dead people even if they are alive in the main living world.
Then you suggest that if we see Jessie's father in Zack's world then that confirms they are dead but at the same time if we see him it could also just be a memory of him according to your rules of this theory. So the way you constructed this anything can either be proof of them being dead in this lifestream world or that if they're not dead then they could just be a memory in this lifestream world. So no matter what we see with the way you've construed this your theory can never be disproven.
Likewise, this idea that Jessie and Wedge being "dead" in Zack's world because they are alive in the other one becomes sort of irrelevant if they can be seen as alive through being a memory of Biggs in this shared consciousness lifestream world. The earlier points you made to explain Elmyra and Kyrie contradict the whole point of devising rules of characters being dead in one and alive in the other.
We're all just having good non serious fun here, I'm just pointing a few things that I think are large issues with this theory.
Getting this out there before I watch to see how many points you hit on. It's always been a single timeline. In the ultimanias for remake -- you need to combine info from both on this topic-- look at the entries for Edge of Creation. In the scene concept, the pain in the start is described as Cloud forcing himself to move in a space where it seems time has stopped. 7 seconds to the end is written as referring to when the planet will die, once time resumes. And what is Sephiroth doing here? He is manipulating memories on a planetary scale; the planet's memories, the lifestream's memories. If you alter memory, you alter reality for an individual. If you alter the memories of a planet... you alter reality, history.
If we look at the chronology, the first change to the timeline in what we see in remake is in fact making Zack survive. From there, everything changes. Zack is absent from every post-death scene that he speaks to Cloud in the OG, according to Nomura's Ultimania Omega for the OG, written after Before Crisis was made and into the ongoing compilation's development. Even in that, there's suggestions that winds are strong whenever the cries of the planet are heard. (In remake, when the whispers cry out before the final battles, Aerith refers to them as the cries of the planet.)
In the recent rebirth trailer in Japanese, instead of Zack saying "I'm feeling every bullet..." (note the dot dot dot), he says "It was really windy." In both cases, you barely see a whisper flying into the path of the bullets.
Zack's death/surviving event is September 17th. Cloud needs to get the buster sword and be abandoned at the sector 7 train station before October 5th, for all the events to still be exactly the same as OG or Remake in terms of Cloud.
As for the significance, in Before Crisis, half of what forever dooms the planet is killed by the Turks when a bad man and Avalanche second in command named Fuhito summons the Zirconiade, also known as the World Ender. This World Ender appears in the sky during its formation as a large gray/blue cloud/fog/storm, and it is fan translated in the literal sense as the appearance of a "Pocket Dimension." More effectively localized, this would be called a "Singularity"... Like the one that appeared in Dirge... like the one that appeared in Remake... This happens when moving to fight a super-reality planetary system. Zirconiade, Omega Weapon, The Arbiters of Fate.
With the destruction of the Zirconiade, the ability to forcefully reunite the global lifestream is lost, potentially dooming the planet. With the destruction of Omega Weapon, the ability to send the lifestream across the universe to a new lifeless rock to save itself, in a cycle described in Dirge as Rebirth, is lost and the planet will in fact permanently die at some point regardless of what the heroes do. This happens to be the point in which the planetary weapon we know as Genesis was activated, and Genesis referred to this as the "Start of the final act"... It's worth noting that the DLC for Remake is specifically referred to as Intermission... and hilarious that Sephiroth has repeatedly paraphrased Loveless to Cloud in remake and few have noticed... But speaking of Genesis, the animation for Rebirth is Genesis's limit break.
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Going into what's going on.. on September 17th, Zack survives due to the intervention of four whispers. Throughout remake, exactly four whispers are constantly acting against the original game's course of events. As it happens, these four are depicted in Sephiroth's key art. These four emerge from Sephiroth's chest during the very last attacks of the final fight's cinematic before the Edge of Creation. These four are in the room with Cloud in the scene where Sephiroth's voice actors is the voice of the whisper that tells Cloud to sleep in *every* *single* *language.*
When fighting them, one of these four will become the Enigmatic Spectre. You will always defeat the Enigmatic spectre four times. There are four whispers that make sure Wedge stands exactly where he needs to in order to survive, and four that finish him off when he is no longer necessary.
Whenever the ultimanias describe the whispers and what they are doing, the four and their intention is never referred to, or included in what the rest are doing. It's almost as if they are separate...
Barret splits from the sector 5 Avalanche sect completely in October, specifically October 3rd. Tensions were high and he separated before, but they cut him off completely on October 3rd. Whenever he goes to see them, he often brought Marlene with him and left her to play at the orphanage with the other kids. This is why Marlene is there. Also, Marlene has known Cloud for months before the first scene with her in remake. It's December; December 12th specifically going on December 13th. It happens to be a Friday in chapter 3. School is in season. It's a Saturday on the day of the Sector 5 bombing, no classes. A Sunday while roaming Sector 5, which is why school is out at the leaf. Monday+ during platefall; Yuffie can see classes taking place in Sector 7.
The scene where Zack is talking to Biggs is sometime after December 18th.
In Before Crisis when the World Ender is defeated by the Turks including Cissinei, those turks who became the turks in exile were blasted from the singularity and appeared randomly all over the world. If Zack happens to be there, he, too, will be launched away and appear somewhere other than Midgar.
As for weapons activating early, Jade Weapon is activated October 3rd. It is destroyed December 12th, the night of the first reactor bombing. Zack will likely have seen it first hand, as it hunts for those that defeat/handle the Zirconiade.
Also fun: Sometime between September and the 1st of October is the day Cissinei goes to the church intent to break the news that Zack is dead, but hoping he's still alive. Aerith is not there, or even in Sector 5 at this time. But, Cissinei and the player turk are attacked by an avalanche anti-soldier unit called Raven, kickstarting the avalanche civil war. On October the 2nd, the leader of avalanche, who happened to be in sector 5 at the time and Barret happened to be wanting to propose his plans to actually do something to Shinra, is attacked and used to summon the Zirconiade. Kicking off the biggest event of Before Crisis...except Zack is now alive to see it.
@@ryanharrison3118 Thank you for the feedback! I’ll try to remember this going forward
The quickest support I can give, is to look up the dev mention that they wanted to incorporate before crisis into rebirth.
Alternative: all the people we see in Zack’s timeline are people Cloud has met/interacted with. Elmyra. Marlene. Biggs. Even Kyrie. It’s CLOUD’S memories that are being altered to form Zack’s new reality.
shit. this is more big brains than multi-verse timeline theory! thanks bud
Which is ironic, because Cloud's memories were based on a blend of his and Zack's.
Thank you!! Been saying this for years! Could also be Sephiroth screwing around and tainting the lifestream too due to him being inside of it. I’m no purist but come on, multiple timelines and multiverse stuff is completely overdone and risk free. This whole lifestream theory makes the most sense in the world of FF7. Plus according to the devs this trilogy will tie into Advent Children. Hopefully they don’t retcon it.
Alternative: all so-called timelines / world / realities are just shards of Cloud's memories. Saving the world = saving Cloud. After that Cloud wakes up in a hospital somewhere on Earth...
Going with your theory of Marlene being from Biggs' memory in the lifestream, theres an explanation for Elmyra also being Biggs' memory.
Spoilers for Traces of two Pasts.
Theres a character in Aeritj's story called X. He was a childhood friend of Aerith's and lived at the orphanage.
Towards the end of Aerith's story, she and Tifa talk about X, and realise X might actually be Biggs
If you replay chapter 4 of remake, Jessie had a theory about her father's spirit being stuck in the heart of the planet. Maybe that's what's happening in Rebirth?
Yooooooooo
“We will be changing everything about ourselves “ probably means changing their fate. Their fate was predetermined before and was set on course by the whispers. But since they won the battle, they are now different and will become people that is unknown by fate itself.
yep also if red told everyone after that vision from the whispers that if they failed this fight this is their fate. So the story will change. Which i like. Technically two versions of ff7 remake. A what if scenario. I am interested how it goes on in february
Its really all just metaphorical, a lot of FFVII lore always was. A lot of this is simply going to be Sephiroth-Jenova mind fuckery, way more enhanced from the original.
The main reason I can't get behind the 'one timeline and Zack is in the lifestream' theory is that in the original and Crisis Core, Zack didn't die immediately on the battlefield, he had time to crawl along a bit, lie down a bit, talk for quite a long time to Cloud, and give him the buster sword. If this theory is true, and this is how the lifestream works here, Zack would have had to totally forget that last part of his life for no apparent reason?
Plus how could he be interacting with characters like Kyrie who he simultaneously seems to not recognize/have never met before, and also exists in the real world? In fact, Kyrie is only 17 in FF7R ~ If he met her before, it would have been at least 5 years ago and she would have been 12...
And why would Midgar be glowing/exploding in the real world AND in the lifestream at a totally different point in time? And then there's the different Stamp for seemingly no reason. Sephiroth saying "The reunion. The merging of worlds" in the trailer. And why would Elmyra be talking about the end of the world? Why would Elmyra, Kyrie, and Marlene even be there? There are just way too many holes in this and hoops to need to jump through (which make more sense and could be way more easily explained with the multiple timelines idea) for me to get on board with it.
Although the points in the video are fairly compelling, its mostly based on (often contradictory) personal interpretations of certain developer comments which have all been translated (at least once ~ I remember some developer interviews were conducted with Italian publications, which means they have probably been translated from Japanese to Italian, and then from Italian to English). Words here and there have almost certainly been mistranslated or inaccurately translated, so I don't think they can be treated as gospel. Great video though, definite food for thought!
Oh and the "What is fact and what is fiction?" line could very simply be referring to Sephiroth messing with Cloud and trying to imply that Tifa died and this Tifa is an imposter.
What's so exciting about FF7 remake compilation is that it raises these kinds of questions and creates these debates. It drives the desire to play the game even more because of the uncertainty.
Yes this is actually the exact reason part 1 ended like it did, said by Kitase himself. The og game's director. They wanted people to consistently speculate, theorize and talk about what was possible for Rebirth and beyond, once the party left Midgar. "The unknown journey will continue" doesn't mean that this just isn't FFVII anymore, only that we have no idea how they'll subvert our expectations for what we already know. Same thing for new fans, except they already know nothing haha
Like Matrix, and battlestar galactica, it is purposefully ambiguous. I like that. ( just don`t make it Kingdom hearts convoluted plz )
@@zerosolis6664except they are going out of their way to make sure new players know all the twists from the OG...re-releasing crisis core and advent children.
This is fantastic. It would still honor the OG story yet give us something new. Perfect
I am new to ff and remake was my goty 2020. Having the whole timelines and alternate universe is really bloated by now. I wish we just had a simple remake so a newcomer can enjoy a wonderful story.
I think it all comes down to execution. I’m not against two timelines, but if we have different timelines/alt universes it really depends on how well they tell the story. I hope it actually makes sense and doesn’t become too convoluted. I’m excited either way though!
I think I really like this theory a lot more than the two timelines theory
🤣🤣😂😂
I think Cloud is trying to change the outcome of losing Aerith.
Exactly - the way I see it, the devs didn't write up an entire plot device (the Whispers) and say a bunch of heavy handed language and themes on changing fate/destiny/the unknown adventure continues etc to end up not actually changing anything in the end. What's the point of setting the story up to defy fate then go "sorry we didn't mean HER fate though lolz." Doesn't make sense. If they set up the entire remake to shove the concept of defying predestination down our throats, you better believe that applies to Aerith's death, too. Aerith's death is one of the most iconic moments in gaming history.. what's the one thing everyone wants to see in terms of changing fate/destiny? Aeriths death. The heroes defeated Sephiroth (ish) and saved the world. There's absolutely no reason to back to change fate and remake the entire story where the heroes already won if not to save the person whose death traumatized an entire generation. I just cannot fathom a reason for all this fate/destiny plot device shit just to rehash the heroes' win in the original/advent children. I think they created these plot devices to give themselves and us an opportunity to ACTUALLY change things - namely, saving her. At least I think that'd be the best outcome. The story will feel so much more epic, mysterious, fresh, exciting, and meaningful if we defied destiny/fate to save her, and she helps save the world again. That seems like a much better use of the remake to me.
@@CQC2112 After seeing Biggs second fate… I have a feeling that they might do the same thing to Aerith, but only the next part will tell
So, I think the dead bodies of tifa and friends, is just a another way to show us its a different place. Just like how they slow down on the flyer of the dog. We, as the audience, can use that to tell its not the same place as the main games story.
I think that Sephiroth and Aerith travel back in time from the original game timeline to the Remake timeline via the Life stream and they are working against each other throughout the remake.
I can see that! I kind of did another video with a similar thought process but I get pretty wild with it haha. They clearly have knowledge of the original events
I swear to god, if they do another timeline story..... I'm so over every studio doing a timeline story
I like the Lifestream timeline idea otherwise the quantum theory many worlds multiverse vibes would indicate there are between 1 billion and infinite timelines so let's pray it's a Lifestream timeline only lol !!!!!!
Honestly, I hope this is the case. It'll make sense for Aerith and Cloud to die and then get their "rebirth" in their other body.
that cheapens their deaths
An unreliable narrator is a CORE part of the FF7 experience. I would not take the things we are shown at face value.
Awesome video! The thing that sticks out here (unless I am going crazy) is Cloud being the only one alive in both timelines/existences.
I think the story will be exactly as the developers say it will be and not change the OG at all. They are just adding elements to give extra context to what happened in OG and also expanding on existing things. I think the whole Zack story in the end will explain how the planet was able to stop meteor. I think Sephiroth and Aerith dont know any more than what they knew in the OG but developers are just fleshing them out so the player can really see that they're in touch with the lifestream. The whole whispers thing is just to show all the bs Sephiroth has to go through in order to come back, just as he did in the 1st game.
Oh it will be different. You can bet on that.
@@SilverSisu I hope so, and it seems that way. But thats exactly what they want, to keep a balance of creating doubt and anticipation while also not pissing off the OG fans
@@Alvin-xs7db i have seen all interviews from devs. This is not going to be 1:1 game. Not even close. Nomura stated that there will be 3 parallel worlds that form the plot. Kitase and Hamaguchi promises a surprising turn of an even on Aerith's scene in forgotten Capital and Motomu Toriyama stated that Rebirth's story will diverge heavily from og story.
The devs were asked why the name Rebirth? They said that name Rebirth symbolizes "a myriad of fates being rebirthed anew."
Trust me things are going to be different. The core plot may stay the same but outcomes will probably be atleast somewhat different.
its literally listed as a "reimaging" of ff7 which means its open to have the story altered. the planet didn't stop meteor did it, you can clearly see it hitting the earth. the ending the culminated in red and his offspring ONLY alive in a barren dead world! Why are people so certain that the OG ended well for cloud? xD we have zero confirmation of that
think about it, its totally something square would do as well, leave a game open to interpretation for decades only to come in with a reason later on and all the signs of been there this whole time
Great video and pretty much is how I feel where the story of the remake is going!
As for the the crew being dead in the trailer, that can be explained because like in OG Shinra claimed Avalanche destroyed the pillar and were killed by Shinra. So that media showing their dead bodies is a fake story to make everyone think Shinra protected them.
The crew is dead in (Zacks) timeline and I'm willing to bet Zack will have to go to the Shinra Building and get Aeriths body's and bring it back ! That's why he has Elmyra (and Marlene lol) watch Clouds body as well
Does that really seem like the simplest explana--- OKAY WTF at your name dude? Yeah, that's not true and not cool.
@@GrimJackal it's true, and your right. It's not cool what they stand for.
@@JMartini810 I guess that could be the case for rebirth but it doesn't change the fact that an OG shinra faked the deaths of avalanche after the pillars we're destroyed. So they could be making a version where it is true that they really did die but like I said going back to the OG stuff when they showed the videos people were wondering how are they dead it's because most people don't know or don't remember or don't care that in the OG version shinra faked their death.
Can`t take anything you say serious with that name.
I think zacks world isnt really a timeline its more like a different reality i saw a really cool theory vid yesterday and it got me thinking what if zacks world is actually the world that sephiroth wants to create? A world where everything that happened in the original ff7 doesn't happen. I dont know exactly how it would work but i dont know i think it could be really cool.
That’s similar to a theory I did for my very first two videos! Basically Sephiroth is deceiving the party in a ‘false world’ born from the memories of the Lifestream based on the events of OGFF7, and Zacks world is the “true” world and the world where Sephiroths plan can come to fruition. Only I get a little batshit crazy with my theory haha.
Im cool with anything either its a multiple timeline or only single one, i saw this vids suggesting one timeline about a stagnant lifestream i think it has similarities with op theory
ruclips.net/video/jmgAZU3PRSY/видео.htmlsi=Gb6RaKrhQjFHjlxR
@@EikonicGamer maybe thats why they are in a coma state it could make sense. Aerith will die in one reality just to wake up in the other and also aeriths mom said in one of the trailers that "the world is ending" so my guess is that we will have to make it so that fate corrects itself and everything that happens in the og actually happens. So by saying we can defy fate they are just giving us false hope cause in the end the og timeline must occur for the planet to be saved. Thats my theory, A game theory. 🤣
@@ignacio1887 part of me thinks it’s Cloud replaying the amnesia sequence we see later on in the OG FF7 and he is trying to put back together his memories.
@@ignacio1887woahhhh this even brings to mind actually creating something out of "the Promised Land"! Holy fuck your theory is badass. That would do nothing but enhance the original story from something thats already present. Sephiroth could even be portrayed to have deep regret for letting go of his humanity, and wanting to create his "new world" in a way to atone for all he's done and create a new paradise. Maybe we are stretching, but theorizing is fun! Just don't let it disappoint y'all when none of this is true lmao
Marlene is a Barrett's adopted daughter bigg was a member of avalanche so he interacted with her means Biggs is dead and is in a life stream his memories are add to li
This is a really well-articulated theory. Obviously the "lifestream" theory has been around for a bit but I've never given it much credence until now. I still have niggling doubts but it makes a lot of sense as well. I think the main issue I would have with this is that it kind of goes against the motif of defying fate/destiny - if everything eventually runs the same path it's essentially saying "No, tough luck, destiny/fate is immutable", which tbh, I would find a little underwhelming. That being said, it's what the Devs are alluding to with all the talk of not changing the core FF7 story, although I'm not 100% convinced that we can take at face value what they're saying at this point.
For your ending doubts, Sephiroth wants to leak his corrupted Lifestream Matrix into the real world somehow and merging it into one freak show zombie reality possibly. You know what there might be a enhanced Zack or Zack and Aerith vs Sephiroth boss to beat lifestream Sephiroth and ban him from entering again.
I find people's fixation on Zack to keep being dead is weird. The two timeline, and this one timeline + one lifestream theory of yours, clearly made with fixation over seeing dead Zack...it's filled with things that you only see as makes sense due to confirmation bias.
Here's the fact, Whispers lore says that they're entities that transcends time and space, Whisper Croceo and its two other companions in game lore says that they travel back from the future to fight off anyone who tried to change destiny. In the OG lore, the Avalanche trio are all dead, you can't have one one or two end up alive due to their seemingly forced by whispers fate being undone after beating Whisper...either all three keep being dead along with Zack, or all three alive along with Zack.
Everything in the game Remake, and everything shown so far the trailer for the upcoming Rebirth, shows that there is only one timeline AND Zack along with everyone who dies in the OG during Midgar section does come out alive again.
The different dog snack logo is quite honestly the dumbest most brain dead argument point for two timeline. It's like you never see Chitatos with more than one variations of packaging art...do we even exist in the same real world here?
As for the crossed vs not crossed wanted poster, that can simply shows different timeframe... it's a Final Fantasy game trailer after all, when did we ever see the whole context of them in an orderly manner?
When talking about analysing Final Fantasy trailers, the simplest answer more often than not is the truth. Just because the title is Final Fantasy, doesn't means that the story will be fantastically complicated. They did always keep it scientifically logical though...so stay scientifically logical, if the time traveling fate enforcer are beaten, what will happen? Yes, everything it's ever done in the timeline is undone, and the timeline history will revert back to its free course. Just like when you destroy a dam, the river flow will be as free as it's naturally meant to be. Sure, there will still be some "staying" changes from its natural state due to existing rubbles of the destroyed dam, it's not going to go back to dam-less state unless all rubbles are removed.
Sephiroth and Aerith with their OG memories will still be there, and affecting the free course of the history of the timeline going further... they're the rubbles of the dam.
I'd say that the only legit question will be how they're going to deal with the fact that Barret being stabbed by Sephiroth and get the wound being undone by whisper. If I'm to guess, he'll probably be saved from the undoing of whisper intervention effect by the fact that he's one of the group who beat the whisper and caused the destruction of the "timeline dam". It's similar to the memory retaining aspect of the hero who changes history.
And yes, of course it will still add up or linked to Advent Children l. It's a sequel with Sephiroth having memory after Advent Children after all. Sephiroth in the Remake is either time traveling from after Advent Children or after Dirge of Cerberus, it's the same Sephiroth as the OG one. So far he's the only one that's shown to be the exact same person as in the OG instead of past life version of the OG FF7 Advent Children characters.
Anyway, what I think will happen based on existing lores and teaser trailers is as follow....
We will get to play two protagonists on different timeframes (not different timeline) in the history of the timeline. It could be all within a single complete game, or could also be Zack in a DLC like Yuffie was with Integrade.
First, we will play Zack during the 6 months timeframes between Crisis Core and the beginning of OG/Remake, then during the timeframe of Remake outside of Midgar, and after the downfall of the plate disaster. There will be timeskips similar to how the story of Crisis Core presented.
During 6 months before Remake period, we will see Zack meeting and cooperating with Avalanche members in hiding, since he's pretty much a wanted Ex-SOLDIER after what happens in Crisis Core. Then we will see Zack adventure outside of Midgar, after Cloud wakes up from his state of delirium. Zack possibly following Avalanche outside of Midgar. After a bit of timeskip, Zack will hear about what happen in Midgar and decided to return to Midgar to make sure everyone's safety.
The scene where we see Zack talking to Marlene and Biggs, and the scene where we see Marlene's dad talking with Barret, that could be in the timeframe before Remake or after. What Marlene and Biggs says to Zack didn't actually specify the context of who they're talking about. That to say, I also lean toward Zack talking with Marlene and Biggs after the plate disaster.
I'm guessing the possibility that Cloud party is actually the one that's having a comatose dream within the lifestream. After all, Cloud party was the one that went into the Lifestream to confront Sephiroth and Whisper Harbinger at the final hour of Remake. In hindsight, it doesn't really makes much sense for them to come out on top of a hill outside of Midgar. In liklihood, they left their real body in comatose, and that's what we see on the trailer where Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Red XIII are hauled into a Shinra chopper. Noticed there is no Cloud's body there? It explains that Cloud's body is already taken by Zack before Shinra arrived on the scene. The Clpud behind Zack and Marlene there possibly the one after Remake, not the one after Crisis Core.
So, in the immediate timeframe after Remake ending, we'll probably plays Zack accompanied by Biggs, and possibly also Yuffie, to take back comatose bodies of the Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Red XIII...wih the help of main Avalanche troops. We might also see Zack fending off Roche during the recovery effret.
Anyway, Marlene saying "When she wakes up, the bad guy will kill her" probably alluding to Aerith being killed by Sephiroth in the OG. Just like Red XIII, Marlene was being given OG memories by Aerith in the Remake.
As for Cloud's Rebirth gameplays, major part of it probably within the dream while he's being comatose, and ended with them waking up, which signify the title of Rebirth. There is a possibility that what we'll see in the dream is the party reliving parts of the OGFF7 story. Either that or they simply wake up after their body recovered, and we see them doing all those adventures seen in the trailer lol
I literally never even considered this as a theory but now it makes the most sense to me.
Have you read The Maiden Who Travels the Planet? It's about Aerith traversing the lifestream from the end of disk 1 up until the final cutscene
Being a Cetra she can maintain herself there as she wishes and she can pull back souls that are disolving into the lifestream to speak to them
Zack is one of them iirc, it has been ages since I've read it
Yeah I talk about it in the video haha
lol Maybe I should watch everything before commenting
I wouldn't mind Zack being in the timeline. That'd make sense.
The only thing kinda infuriating in that case is: why the f did they create the whole very confusing and unnecessary Whispers plot point if the events of the main story don't change in the slightest and if Zack's involvment is just there to explain why the lifestream came to save the planet from Meteor after Holy failed ? 😅😢
The whispers seem to be what help to dissolve souls back into the heart of the planet. They carry souls to their fate. And they also carry the planet to its inevitable fate too.
So they are essential in understanding how Sephiroth survived the lifestream. How Aerith survives the lifestream. And how Zack survived the lifestream. Their will to live overpowers the winds of fate. And when their fate (oblivion at the heart of the planet) is broken, they can persist in the lifestream.
Sephiroth of course has been doing this for nefarious purposes ever since he fell into the reactor at Nibelheim at the hands of Cloud. The Whispers showing up appear to be a portrayal of how Sephiroth is resisting the will of the lifestream, causing the fate of the planet to change. The music at the start of the game also shifts and turns ominous as you see his black feather fall.
@@ash_yt0 sure but it makes the story of the whole remake trilogy needlessly over-bloated, especially for newcomers. 😒
You can just explain later with a sentence that Sephiroth had the willpower to survive inside the lifestream without adding an epic kaiju battle in an "upside down" version of Midgar at the end the first game. The point is, if nothing changes in the end and if everything was done only to tremple people's expectations by making them believe unrequired story modifications were coming anyway, then the addition was dubious at best.
@@Oleus(long comment incoming because I'm trying to be as detailed as possible) Bro...its definitely not that serious. "The unknown journey will continue" is metaphorical for both old fans and new players. Just because this is a remake, doesn't mean you automatically are prepared for and know everything thats gonna happen. As an example, of course Wall Market was the exact same, but cranked up to fucking 50 and had so many new quirky and weird characters, which is super true to FFVII. Its been "an unknown journey" since you pressed New Game on part 1. The Whispers, just like Red already said, are basically "guardians of time", they are just another layer of the Planet's defenses like the Weapons. They are playing with the fact of the Planet being a sentient being and adding more nuance to the Lifestream. What more could you want? Its also a bit of dramatic irony in the sense that they're showing the party their "fate" and what awaits at (what old fans know is) the end of FFVII. Why? Because they're gonna change it and make it wild. I've always thought much of FFVII became underwhelming as shit as the years went by and gaming evolved. Been wanting a remake for fucking forever. Its already amazing and Rebirth is taking it to the next level. Sephiroth still wants the Black Materia, he's still gonna fuck with Cloud and the gang. Cloud is still not really Cloud. Etc. What is really going to change is the sequence of events, subverting how we think many things will happen, along with brand new additions and perhaps brand new ending. I could even see this other reality that Zack is supposedly in becoming a key point. The Whispers are not unnecessary by any means and aren't "plot ghosts" either (stupidest surface level take I've ever seen from the internet, shouldn't have ever gotten widespread). Ever wonder why Aerith would say something like "I could see them ever since I was a child." "Every time the Whispers touch me, I lose something. A part of myself."? Come on man, think a bit. Why were they visible in the PAST when Zack was fighting his last stand, when he had nothing to do with them? They are omnipresent! When the party "fought" them, they were also wreaking havoc in Midgar in the past. Thats my theory on that. But why all of this? Because they are a part of the LIFESTREAM. Aerith is a CETRA. She can commune with the Planet and connect with the Lifestream. Every time the Whispers "touch" her, she probably "loses a part of herself" because she's being in contact with the Lifestream, perhaps even being told more of what events are to come. Aerith has always seemed...different, like she always knew more than she let on even in the original game. That was insanely hard to show in the 1990s storytelling though, so they only really did just before she went into the Temple. She knew what she was doing and what would happen, 100%. Then again, its possible that some instances of the Whispers are Sephiroth-Jenova mind fuckery, just like the og game was full of. Anyway, Bugenhagen will tell us a LOT when we get to Cosmo Canyon you can be sure
I so much hope you’re right, what you describe here would be infinitely better than timelines and the overused plot device they are and fit FFVII loads better (and I would have to give the devs extra special kudos for the stamp bag red herring and keeping us on the edge of our seats for years too).
I guess we’ll see! Personally I’m excited for whatever direction they go. There are some discrepancies with this theory, but perhaps it’s because we don’t really have the full picture yet so it’s hard for it to fully make sense.
At the end of the day my only hope is the game at least makes sense, and it has a solid ending to part 3.
does one cover a body like that if the person is dead? no, either it'd be body bag, fully covered, or no blanket at all.
Okay something i just remembered and while i dont know if it adds to much it make me think twice about "alternate timelines or multiple at the same time"
At the end when they go to confront "sephiroth" they get visions of, as red 13 says "vision of the future if we fail here today"
If this is all still meant to link up with Advent Children it would mean that ultimately, we are being told they do fail and nothing changes.
This kind of goes in with a bland theory i had of the whispers/fate not actually being defeated. But leading everyone to feel that they have broken away from their "original fates" and now have complete freedom.
I dunno id have to go back and find what i wrote down.. it was bland af but.. i definitely preferred that over a multiverse trashfest
I would rather they not retcon the original game. I'm fine with them changing things up for the remake, and acknowledging such with the Whispers, but I would rather they not go too far off the rails and start changing all sorts of stuff just for the sake of it. If it's an interesting change, that can be cool.
They don't need to start killing random characters though. Aerith's death had major relevance to the events that followed and is part of Cloud's character development arc. Killing more people is pointless, and they need a good reason for bringing Zack back to life considering that his death in the original was also a large plot element for Cloud.
Aerith dying is completely fine but then again her surviving and changing the world so 400-500 years later imagine Nanaki telling the tales of his youth and an Aerith clean energy company making humanity boom! Well that would a twist for another time lol. EDIT: this would also make defeating the Whispers (at least the big one as maybe defeating all Whispers is impossible) and overcoming planet's fate with Aerith keeping herself and the planet alive more sweeter.
I agree, there is only 1 timeline and all scene with dead characters are happening in the lifestream. But I believe that when people return to the lifestream, they dont have active consciousness, it's more like a dream state where they are experiencing it individually but have no control over what's going on. It is only the Cetra, and those strong with the lifestream, that are able to regain consciousness in there. That's why Aerith died first before he was able to manipulate the lifestream.
This ability is the same with Jenova and Sephiroth, they too can retain consciousness in the lifestream and able to manipulate it. I believe this is how to corrupt thise passive consciousness, giving them despair, and eventually becomes a whisper, and control them.
Those scene with the dead characters, I predict it will be getting darker later due to despair, an indicator that Jenova a.k.a Harbinger is succeeding.
One thing to note as well, although they died, they came to the lifestream on a different time.
Zack is probably able to retain consciousness and so he can at least visits Biggs dream state, probably. But he is not as strong as Sephiroth or Aerith to manipulate the lifestream.
They will need Aerith's help to trully regain consciousness
I like this theory! Perhaps even more than the two-timeline theory. Rather than convoluted time manipulation stuff, which has been overdone in stories imo, have the lifestream play a key role into it. That feels more true to the spirit of FF7.
Before I watch the video, I was already tracking this from FFVII Remake. There is one timeline however as we see in the first one Sephiroth has access to the memories of the life stream and because of that he can project him self into his past self. The concept has been around recently in Manga and other media but yeah its straight forward Idea of altering the timeline in what appears like time travel. Like in AoT the way Eren alters the past by projecting memories into the past and future.
FYI not being a dick, just stating what I already gathered from Remake. I am about to watch your video in a few min.
Body explanation. Single timeline. Nojima gave a post written from Cloud's perspective. The party went into the portal, fought the whispers, they appeared in a white space. Then they were outside midgar. Cloud remembers it all. But to them, Cloud just appeared after, out of nowhere.
What if you just move the bodies and dump them outside to see what happens, because Rufus. In before crisis when entering the singularity, its implied they just fell over on the other side despite all they remembered.
Lifestream is the collective subconciousness of everything that’s ever lived, so it has everyone in there from past present and future. I’m almost 99% sure there’s no separate timelines, Zack is in the life stream. The story is going to be largely the same as the OG.
what do you mean? you think zack is fantasising about his experience in the lifestream? because i doubt that.
That "future" part is really doubtful. I don't think it's logical to think that Sephiroth knew exactly when, how and where will Cloud, Aerith and the others die and yet he still decided to follow this stupid "fate" of his to his ultimate defeat. Though it would have sense if Remake really is a sequel and in the end Seph would win but first of all it's still retcon and secondly Square would never leave any of them win once and for all at this point.
one of the bitg questions if you listen to the developers is why does sephiroth keep losing on purpose? they said he only ever used 50% of his full power which means he not only held back everytime against cloud but he is actualy twice a sstrong as what we have seen.
he is after something,and if you keep losing to someone on purpose it means you have plans for them in youre future.@@persona3rulez
@@Marcustheseer I'm pretty sure they've been speaking about Remake continuity only. Which would be logical if Remake continuity happens like in a parallel universe with the original Sephiroth who knows the future or something but if he knew the future even in the original continuity then it's just hilarious that he lost on purpose only for the planet apparently MAAAAAAYBE kill all the humanity anyway.
thing is you should listen to what sephiroth actualy says,he litteraly says "i wil not end nor wil i have you end" so he is clear he doesnt want cloud to die.
it seems he wants to train cloud or convince him to team up with him and since sephiroth knows he wil not die in the lifestream he has as much time as he needs to get coud to his side.
only question remains is wil cloud eventualy see his reason and does sephiroth know something we dont that can save the planet? and if cloud never comes arround wil sephiroth eventualy stop going easy on him and kill him.
its funny how people overlook some things that even the developers gave hints to,the biggest villain of this story has also been overlooked and that jenovah,sephiroth is strong with her cells in him so how strong is she realy when she is 100% full of that power.
by all means she should be even stronger then him,and it always felt like she was manipulating him,eventualy the writters wil make the story but i do feel its a huge missed chance not to look at these things.@@persona3rulez
For me a single timeline is the only thing that can save this for me. Remake broke my heart how much they changed. They did the hard part (characterisation etc) then they shit all over it with timelines, plot ghosts, no shinra HQ blood ruining scenes using the whispers and splitting the games so they dont feel like 1 cohesive experience. When they announced a remake, not one fan wanted timelines etc. A single timeline is the closest thing to keeping the OG for me.
Technically I think EVERYTHING in FF7 takes place in the lifestream. The lifestream is what gives shape to reality. But I think Zack's departure from the rest of the crew is down to his existence being free from the Whispers. They can no longer evaporate him with the winds of fate so he can dissolve into the lifestream. Which also mirrors Sephiroth who defied fate and survived dissolving the lifestream. And the consequences of this is that Zack and Sephiroth have their own worlds of existence separate to the main story of Cloud. But I agree that there is one PLANET (i.e. one story / timeline) where all these events are unfolding in parallel and intersecting.
You are wrong. Theyre doing this multiverse BS. They are already showing it in Ever Crysis. So disappointing
I would honestly prefer it if was just one timeline UNLESS they have a really good plot relevant reason for their to BE two timelines. If there IS just one timeline, given what we have seen from the trailers so far, I think it would be along the lines of: When the party defeated fate the explosion altered not just the present but the past, however they, being in the epicenter were 'protected' from the changes. As a result the 'beagle' FF7 crew is now in the remade 'terrier' world. in said world Cloud and Zack arrive in midgar, Barrett, Tifa, Jessie, Wedge are presumably dead as a result of said changes to the world and meanwhile the crew from the OG universe is going on unaware of the changes that occured. The only thing that makes me doubt this is Yuffie and her story continuing despite still while being tied to the events of FF7 remake despite her not being near said fate explosion.
I just think sephiroth created a new plane of existence
Yeah that’s pretty much what I said in my very first theory but I got a little wild with it lol. Sometimes the simple answer is often the correct one
I really hope Jessie lived when she was around I feel like it was some of the best parts of part 1
Well we are all going to find out soon and im so fucking hyped
I am replaying the game again, and I noticed while going through the chapter with Jesse. There are clues into what’s going on with Jesse’s father, in the theory that Jesse has, that he is caught between some purgatory type of dimension. Biggs actually explains this to Cloud, while him, Biggs, and Wedge are walking towards the Shinra industrial plant. Also, the developers said in interviews leading up to the remake that there were certain type of premises that they were unable to express in the original game due to the hardware limitations of the PS1. So this dynamic between the lifestream and reality is actually their original plan for the game.
Btw. That scene where Biggs explains this to Cloud is unavoidable, non-cinematic dialogue. You have to listen to Biggs say that before you continue with the game. That means to developers wanted you to see this.
Oh my god this makes so much sense
If you’ve completed Rebirth I really hope you put together another video of this theory because not only do I agree with you 100% but after completing Rebirth, I believe your theory is going to become 100% canon and I love it! What a way to retell the story :)
Haha I actually finished Rebirth yesterday and loved it! Rebirth revealed a lot of new things regarding timelines/worlds. I’m curious where they’re going with it in part 3. There’s a ton of new elements in Rebirth to dig into but I hope to get a video out soon! I’m playing it again right now haha
@@EikonicGamer outstanding! You’ve earned another subscriber! I can’t wait till you put it up because I’m looking forward to it!
So they took the original story which already has a huge sprawling story that can get complicated, and now added 2 other timelines that changes certain events making it even more convoluted. And... people... think this is good lmfao
It has been confirmed that Zack is alive which means the events can't have taken place in the life stream so that can't be a 'theory' since it's confirmed. This also means that the three games are an alternate version of events from the original e.g.: a second time line.
It has also been confirmed Cloud used to be a First Class Soldier in his official character description😉 but believe me I’m aware of what’s been confirmed and what hasn’t. This is merely speculation and I don’t have a firm stance on any theory at this point to be honest lol
@@EikonicGamerhahaha I see what you did there (SPOILER WARNING)
Cloud being a First Class with the wink because he was never a SOLIDER to begin with. God what a game this is gonna be. Can't wait for this shit
The footage of their bodies is probably propaganda that shinra put out after the plate dropped
here's a thing, right now there's 2 timelines, which Sephiroth s hinted to merge, not because he want everyone to be happy, but because he wants to obtain something that can be obtained from both, could be the black materia or take something from Cloud and Zack, but as it is now, there's not a single time only. Your theory about what Zack's experience here is sounding close to Squall is Dead Theory, you know the dying dream, and also that Link is Dead Theory, A GAME THEORY!
Temporal paradox that has more than one version of the characters who were in the singularity at the end of remake. It's not multiple timelines it's not even parallel worlds. It's a single timeline that is experiencing temporal paradoxes, that's why you have small changes, like Stamp, and big changes like Zack being alive, and the party either dead or in a coma. When we step through the barrier of whispers-which Aerith manipulates beforehand the game make sure that the player knows we are inside of a singularity. The whispers combine into the harbinger, to try and protect the natural flow of time but we defeat them, and Sepherioth -who absorbs them, and the party comes out of the singularity outside of Midgar unaware that time was altered. Being inside the singularity means that they were unaffected by the time alterations. Zack's fight against the Shinra arm is the point at which time changed but our party from the events leading up to and including the singularity still exists. The whispers tried to kill us so that there would not be two versions of the party existing in the single altered timeline.
An explanation for the party on the stretchers is that its Shira’s propaganda. If you look at Barrett, he’s missing his tattoo. They did the same thing and the OG when they captured Barrett and Tifa they told everyone that they had captured and killed them all when they hadn’t.
I can personally see the tattoo. The lighting makes it difficult but it’s definitely there. But regardless of the tattoo are you suggesting that scene takes place in Clouds world and not Zacks?
What do you think is going on with Zack?
Thank you for commenting by the way!
I think that Zack is in the lifestream , and that his timeline is the lifestream with all the memories , In TOTP elmyras husband clay does something similar. Faking the deaths could have happened either from Zack’s point of view in his “world” or possibly the parties. it’s very fitting with what they did in the OG. I don’t know how I could be missing Barrett’s tattoo. That’s his non-gun arm and it’s supposed to be a skull with the red flames going all the way up. I’ll watch again maybe it’s because everyone’s all dirty. But yeah, going with the developers interviews. We really don’t know how the lifestream works and they are going to use Zack to explain it. I also think they are going to use this time to show Zack and Aeriths lifestream reunion their POV of how they end up together in the lifestream by AC and their POV of them using the live stream to stop meteor. I’m very excited no matter which way they they go with it.
What if this is the remnants of geostigma corroding the lifestream like sephiroth stated in Advent Children 😮
The "timeline" can't be lifestream. It simply doesn't make any sense at all. There is no point that makes sense. People living in the lifestream while also living in clouds "timeline". It also means that the "lifestream" team got killed/beaten by someone or something before Zack and Cloud ever met anyone. That means they went on their usual way against Shinra without Zack or Cloud. Which also doesn't make sense. And about them being dead or not; it could easily be shinra being a propaganda machine by saying their are dead or imprisoned (it's shinras poster after all).
I still may be wrong but nothing really points towards this theory.
So you're saying Nomura is pulling an 'unreality' move again?
I’ve seen countless theories about Rebirth this one is the best one yet
I'm so conflicted on what outcome for the fates of the different characters I expect or even hope for at this point(god I cant wait for the game release aaaaa). Honestly, if we get Aerith and Cloud going down the same paths as the original, Hollow and No Promises are going to feel like two of the cruelest troll songs lol
Hate to be the wet blanket but the maiden who travels a planet is not Cannon.
My problem with making the story basically the same as the OG makes the whisper plot feel so pointless. They defy fate and introduce ambiguity just to have the story be the exact same?
Seems so pointless. Why not just remake the game the exact same without this new seemingly unnecessary plot point.
I had to laugh when you mentioned the devs saying that we're all overthinking this, lol. There is no way anyone would catch on to all of this by just playing the game. It's fun and interesting to discuss, but a lot of this is getting to a place of pretty complex storytelling.
I personally follow the two timeline theory, mostly because it just explains things in a cleaner way. For it to be a single timeline, things get a bit uncomfortable. But im not completely wed to any of the theories no matter how compelling they seem to be. It's like a few guesses to what will happen in Rebirth, and im gonna enjoy finding out how many were right and how completely wrong they were, lol.
I’m really starting to think that all the new Zack stuff that we can’t explain yet is just Square’s version of Wht he’s up to in a Limbo state. Almost like he’s waiting for Aerith and maybe we can see what Aerith will be up to after she dies. Like how she helps with Holy at the end. Maybe it has something to do with the end of Advent Children where Aerith and Zack kind of give a goodbye to Cloud. Maybe that’s another place? Definitely wouldnt mess with the Integrity of the original plot just some extra story from the “other side” 🤔
Pretty good breakdown however if you sticking to 1 timeline then the dead bodies in the trailer are just unconscious and it happens right after they leave singularity or later in story. and Seph merging of world is just his plan for part 3. or if you really want to go out there my Final Fantasy VII: Reincarnation Theory puts ff7 lore in on package
i guess this time we gotta beat Sephi in both real life and life stream to get rid of him
That's saying who's timelinespecifically cause there's multiple characters Final fantasy that are considered stars
Dude, in games and movies and series, if you don't see a definite end of someone who has a story, even a little bit, he is not KIA.
Are you referring to Zack at the end of Crisis Core? Because I feel like that’s for sure a definite ending lol
So, I'm no expert on this, but I'll give what I've thought since Remake:
I think it's a single timeline and Zack's destiny was changed. When the party kills the whispers they're outside of time, killing them removes their influence on the events of this pivotal moment in time. It erases "destiny". Their influence extends at least as far back as Zack and his death is part of it. So that death is subverted and he lives on. This would mean either he is alive somewhere and the party just hasn't met him yet or that when they step back into the timeline it's been *changed* so that he is *now* alive somewhere out there. Provided he didn't die some other way between then and now. The STAMP thing I think is explained by this difference in times, the event we see where Zack lives is in the past. The mascot has just changed by the time of remake. If there's anything wrong with that let me know
The trailers certainly throw some wrenches into things, just in general. I think they're inconclusive enough to just note and set aside for now because we don't really know what the red exes mean or if the instance of Barret, Tifa and Red XIII being on stretchers has anything to do with the plate fall or not. The scene of Zack trying to go to the church and finding it full of what seems to be plate survivers makes me wonder too, but it's hard to say. Could be that he's going there after the plate crash as we saw it in remake, where everyone was saved instead of the original where everyone died
I just thought stamp looked like a pup with zack, because its in the past. Not a different breed
There are actually 3 timelines, OG, Remake and the Dead Party, here is my reasoning and evidence.
OG timeline - This is what happened in ff7 from 1997. Planet is saved, and 500 years later humans may not be alive.
Remake Timeline - This is the OG timeline where the planet has created Whispers to funnel all timelines into one outcome. Any action that leads to a different conclusion where the planet dies is corrected. The Main game of Rebirth will follow this Timeline. Biggs and Jessie are dead, Wedge may still be alive he may also have died after the whispers grab him end of chapter 17 since he is not shown again.
This timeline features signature Beagle and black feathers.
Zack, Biggs, Jessie (and maybe wedge as explained) are dead.
This story will run on like the OG game expect no major changes.
Alternate Dead Party Timeline - The Remake party crosses over the crossroads of destiny into another Midgar where they fight the Whispers/Arbiter of fate.
After this fight Midgar is heavily destroyed by Sephiroth. The party wins the fight but something happens, my best speculation is there are now 2 parties. One that exits Midgar and continues the journey, Cloud clutching a black feather, and another party which remains in broken post-Sephiroth Midgar and most of them die or are captured.
The main party with the exception of a rescued Biggs and Aerith all seem to be dead or are missing/captured (2nd Rebirth trailer shows them on stretchers in a heavily damaged Midgar - Cloud is not seen though so maybe the party did everything without his involvement)
In this reality Terrier timeline Zack and Cloud both survive the Shinra ambush and walk into a heavily damaged Midgar as white feathers are seen. Zak visits Aeriths house with Cloud, Elmyra probably does not know where Aerith is and agrees to look after Cloud. Zack then goes to the church (end of Intermission cutscene) and finds out Aerith is now in a coma or captured.
Later we know Aerith to be back home in a Coma and Marlene who is also being looked after.
This timeline features the Terrier, white feathers, golden whispy flakes.
Everyone apart from Crisis Core Zack and Cloud, Biggs and Aerith are dead or at least captured.
When the whispers died in Terrier Timeline there was an explosion which knocks Zack to the ground. This explosion rains down golden whispy flakes, which can be seen outside Biggs window at the Orphanage, the rebuilding of Sector 7 and Marlenes Window. This signifies to me Biggs is only alive here in this timeline.
Jessie is definitely dead in both timelines, there is confusion as she appears in the Golden Saucer show in the last trailer. However reading the SquareEnix official page reveals that the backing dancers in the show were all VR performers, so Jessie is a pre-recorded dancer that will no doubt be recognised but not coming back.
Feel free to reply, ive played the games to death and noticed a lot of things.
I think you can basically disregard OG FF7 as being canon in this Compilation version of FF7. So this is a new telling of the story. A reboot and separate from FF7 (although obviously will remain faithful to its story.)
I don't think the Whispers are trying to save the planet, I think they're trying to ensure the planet follows its natural course toward the edge of creation. So the whispers are trying to ensure there are no unnatural interventions (like Sephiroth) which interrupt the planet's lifecycle. Sephiroth shows Cloud the end of the world, explains the planet will die, and says he doesn't want them to die and asks Cloud to defy destiny with him. So I think it's clear the Whispers are moving the planet toward its destruction.
I think the lifecycle of the planet is to be born, and then slowly die. I think Cloud's 7 seconds to make a decision will lead to him in essence defying the Whispers and the fate of the planet. He causes the planet to survive Meteorfall, perhaps because Sephiroth plans to usurp the death of the planet to absorb the lifestream into himself and become a god.
Basically the main thing I'd contend with your post, is the Whispers aren't trying to save the "original timeline" they are not plot ghosts. They are trying to preserve the planet's inevitable death. They are shaped like the grim reaper for a reason. They carried souls to their oblivion, and they guide the planet to its own oblivion also. The Whisper Harbinger is also the same colour as Jenova which could indicate both represent the apocalypse
@@ash_yt0 Its my understanding that the planet simply does what it needs to survive.
And that would mean preventing Seph/Jenova winning in any other reality and achieving Godlike ability to transcend timelines to defeat the planets obvious timeline controls.
Bugenhagen says that humans may or not be part of the planets future plan and 500 YL scene hints that it may be the case that humans will be taken away.
The Edge of creation was not really explained, it could be the point of new timelines opening up where Sephiroth simply wants to make Cloud and his clones part of his future where he becomes a God.
It just made sense to me that the timeline of OG>Remake>Advent which is canon according to the producers at least who said remake directly ties them all together (hence we now know no major plot changes that disqualify Advent will take place).
Obviously this is all fiction, and we can only speculate and thats just my thoughts and reasons!
All the stuff people think is split timelines is just visions. Cloud thinks he’s Zack but we already know that so they have to hide that somehow, and Sephiroth can show visions to cloud bc he does it to show him nibelheim flash back. It’s just Sephiroth fucking with cloud. Ppl are nerds to much and overthink it, multi verse parallel verse multiple charcter etc etc…craziness and illogical
Thank you. THANK YOU. I was extremely disappointed/angry in the way I thought this might be heading but you've given me a little bit more hope in what this may actually turn out to be. I'm more excited now and you showed me things that I didn't see or hear about myself.
I've got to be honest, IF you're right.... You would have revitalized my interest in the remake. You're saying it's a game about dead people reliving their lives.... But they're dead. It's an interesting concept. I'm not too opposed to the series after hearing this theory anymore. I just hope you're right...
its kingdom hearts all over again....
Zack will prevent cloud to reach his goal because it will result in the death of aerith. 😂
That is a Holo of Jessie has already been confirmed
I think Sephiroth created a Matrix inside the Lifestream that's why Biggs and Zack are feeling alive and living their best life. Maybe it favours the ones who enter it and are reborn there.
One thing i understand is if AC is canon so whatever happens to those timeline aerith and zach are still dead in the planet where cloud,tifa and the group are alive.... so that's means in the end they can't be together so that what it is,,,,,or maybe there's a way to save them, i wish there was......
Honestly I will be curious to see how they fit zacks timeline in alongside the already massive story they are telling in the main one. Personally I think zacks timeline should be a whole other game, like a what if story, and keep this game focused on the main timeline. Because if there's anything that can potentially ruin this game it will be trying to tell both storys at the same time and doing a bad job of it. But still I am so looking forward to this game and to see what it has in store for us.
I think we’ll just get some cutscenes sprinkled in here and there and maybe some gameplay similar to FF8’s Laguna segments.
I could be wrong but if we don’t get to play as Zack in Rebirth I think there’s a chance we’ll get segments playing as Zack and Aerith in part 3
sigh. here we go again
In my blunt opinion. The Zack is in the lifestream theory is cope so people can believe that Zack died when he's actually alive. There are just way too many holes at this point and I think the evidence for it now crosses the threshold to where it is unprovable. If it's all a dream world from the planets memory, then who is to say that it's the main party that's dead and Zack is alive and in the real world? We saw their deaths, but we didn't see Zack die, so there is technically more evidence to support that.
AFIAC, if these are worlds where people can live and die then there is no narrative purpose to call one the lifestream and the other reality.
The only totally brand new chapter included in FF7 Remake, was the one involving Jessie's dad, where he is in a coma much like the party members are in Zack's world. And it is explained by Wedge that he is trapped between his body and the heart of the planet in a type of limbo. Notice that Wedge doesn't say his mind is in another timeline or that he's a time-traveller, because none of that has ever been a part of FF7 lore. It has to do with the lifestream because the lifestream is the absolute core of the FF7 universe. So how exactly is it cope? They included a totally new chapter specifically to introduce this one idea.
@@ash_yt0 He has mako poisoning. And that's been a thing since the OG. It's what Cloud has just before the lifestream sequence.
What hasn't been a thing since the OG are Whispers, Future Sephiroth, and Zack being alive.
Please let this be the case, I'll take anything that can save the game from a two timelines bullshit
In my humble opinion if we all remember the first encounter between cloud and Sefiroth in the remake the only one who saw him was cloud like a ghost if I can say to a certain level in the game and after that, all the characters can see him ( when the two worlds emerge ) I think the game wants to tell us there is a certain level cloud and other characters can see zack in the game in their perspective till the final revel to zack when can cloud see zack in his physical form to change the fate.
God damn it why are they giving so much of the story away? I don't want to hear about the story.. but I cant not watch some of these videos.. I try to instantly close the video as soon as they start talking about the story because why would anyone want to know anything about the story before even playing the game?
There is no 1 timeline theory. There is 3
No point in buying this game data doesn’t transfer from ff7 remake to rebirth so just wait till the third stand alone game! Square has dropped the ball
no, the chips packet is displaying the butterfly effect.
No the white feather is Angeal - and the black feather is Jenova,
Only an Ancient can retain ones self in the lifestream, Jenova is not an ancient - no one in soldier can retain their self.
Lucretica could be partially Cetra as to why Sephiroth can retain some of him self in the life stream.
Jenova's regenerative abilities give soldiers the ability to not die in the mako.
The problem is Advent children failed to keep true to the lore of FF7 - so did crisis core. Even the books are riddled with incorrect lore.
This remake is to reset all of the lore and make it correct - that is why Crisis Core & Advent children are being remastered.
Don't get me wrong I liked the video keep up your theory crafting it was good.
*edit*
Also when reading what the developers are saying you need to put it into context.
They say In Final Fantasy VII Remake ( That is the first game this game is called Final Fantasy VII Rebirth )
The 3 people talking are often miss directing the audience.
Nomura - is often refering to Ever Crisis, Or original.
Kitase - Is often refering to original FF7, or Remake.
Hamaguchi - Is often talking about Remake, they are not the new project FF7: Rebirth.
They are being sneaky - and playing a 3 monkeys game.
I very much enjoy what they are doing, it has created so much positive engagement - I am concerned that hearts maybe crushed when their favourite theory is not the outcome, but the original story is about loss so I guess it is fitting that people need to lose their presupposition of guessing the future - and -
They need to Live in the moment of journey.
Peace.
Not watching this, not reading comments. I have been able to avoid trailers, spoilers, and tons of online reaction videos to Rebirth... yeah me.... sob :(
But I saw the above headline, and wanted to chime in.... I knew this, (single time line) after playing Remake to the end. I knew it was a sequel, and how Sephiroth comes back with knowledge of the past - OG game-.
Cannot wait, just a month or so left !!
Its definitely not a sequel. They would have already said this, it is just a remake with added sauce because at this point FFVII is not one game it is a wider universe that got a lot added to it after 1997. This is just tying it all in a bow and realizing a lot of old concepts the devs had but could never fully use in the old hardware. They said this themselves
@@zerosolis6664 Nomura's has said it is a single time line.
I am not wanting to spoil this for you.
Jenova was able to create a singularity sending a simple thought back in time, to Sephiroth, allowing him to change his destiny. Events in OG, Advent Children, and remake set a new course at Zack's survival time point.
Following Back to the Future, Groundhog day, whatever time travel, you have a single time line ...
You have Crisis core, FF7OG, advent children, FF7remake -with remake being a sequel to FF7OG.
Cool theory, but does this mean Elmyra, Kyrie and the other characters seen interacting with Zack are dead as well?
Not necessarily because it could just be the planets memories of them. There are definitely inconsistencies but I’m pretty much just trying to make sense of one timeline in this video
Developer bring back Zack, I hope that allowed fans to change the fate of Aeris...
Your answer to why they didn't return to the live stream as they were destined to do and become part of the planet it said that when souls or spirits on the other side have a hard time dealing with the deaths they refused to join with the live stream energy and this has a tendency to happen is also referred to in final fantasy children's adventure but sometimes the dead have a hard letting go of regret remorse and hatred and it stays stuck in the life stream time does the refuse to move and for some reason Zach continues to relive the battle he died in and this is why I believe Biggs woke up in the orphanage because it was the last place he remembered before he died and the live stream we created this please see a flash of white light you often refers to the life stream
I don't think zach is in the lifestream because he wouldn't be all messed up and dirty if he died. Same with Biggs waking up with bandages on all over him. It would be messed up if you die, only to wake up still all beat up and have to limp your way through the afterlife. But hey, this game might go there.
Whatever the case, I still don't understand why they had to butcher the coherent OG story in favor of this fanfic anime trope overloaded retelling. I can't even show a spark of interest for the new story. It seems so unsalvageable to me, already after just pt1. Still going to love the gameplay though, they at least nailed that one.
You are aware there are actually 2 LifeStream's right ? there is the Normal Green one and the Jenova Lifestream which is corrupted. I agree with you on the whole its they are all dead in the lifestream though.
Yeah that’s kind of what I was getting at when I mentioned the corrupted Lifestream
Joining the worlds as in merging reality with the world Sephiroth created? I don't know, you wanted a simple explanation so that is one, didn't he also say the world will end but I will not. Could be possible that Sephiroth wanted to create an alternate reality from his basement with all his veins jacked up in the matrix.
Nah bro. If zack is in lifestream. Everyone who's dead should be alive in lifestream. Because the memory doesn't die. And what about the worlds merge? We know that there is two or three wotlds from developers and the driving force of any world is time. So two world means two spaces and two times.
In FF7, souls dissolve into the lifestream when they die. The exception so far seems to only be Zack/Biggs and Sephiroth.
Zack will not be able to visit any souls who have dissolved into the lifestream because their consciousness would no longer be part of the lifestream. The lifestream remembers them but that's exactly what they are, a memory, not a current manifestation within the present as Zack is.
Also there are multiple "worlds" but only one planet. Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth are all within the same Planet, but they have their own world of existence. I would imagine the 7 seconds til the end will be a 3-way tug of war between Sephiroth's world, Cloud/Tifa's world and Zack/Aerith's world. And Sephiroth is trying to get Cloud to let Sephiroth's world win.
@@ash_yt0 souls can reject lifestream due they hatred. This is confirmed in the maiden who travels the planet. But only cetras or Sephiroth can be separate from it and act as their own will. If the lifestream can be considered another world (within the same planet) it does have the same timeline as the surface of the planet. I can't see how these two play out!
Zack can't act in the lifestream or maybe they can give this ability to him considering he has jenova cells. But that way any other person who has the jenova cells would be able to do so including nearly a hundred clones of Sephiroth.
I think we just need to see what will happen. Till that we don't know a damn thing really
@@aazhmaan Aerith turned the portal white after Sephiroth cut a black hole in the whispers. Which could mean she is the one who saved Zack's consciousness with that spell.
I would view each soul as being its own world and story, but these worlds connect to each other through interactions. But the whispers are no longer guiding Zack and Sephiroth's interactions, which allows them to create new experiences of their own volition.
I agree that aerith saved zack and I didn't say that multiple worlds mean multiple planets.
I believe there is ff7 original world with cloud and the party but the whispers can no longer intervene in this world. As nanaki said in the recap trailer.
In same planet but different world is the zack messed up world that I don't know what is zack story in it.
And there is a third world that Sephiroth wants to create or wants to complete the world he is already created.
And I strongly believe that Sephiroth doesn't know that zack is still alive and zack gonna catch Sephiroth off guard in the end.
you need to play 13/2/3. i feel it will help you a lot. its canon that 13 10 and 7 are all linked. at the end of 13 saga the life stream is created. in 13-2 its confirmed that chaining the future has the Consequence of changing the past,the effects ripple up and down the timeline. you also see that the souls retain their memories in the life steam at the end of 13-3, also chaos is the negative lifestream the two were mixed before but now they are not from this its as if Sephiroth has control of the negative lifestream aka the chaos now its very interesting.
I have played the 13 series. It’s actually one of my favorites! However do you have a source from developers stating FF13 is canon to FF7? All FFs borrow some elements from each other but to say that FF13 is canon to FF7 is something I’ve never heard the developers mention. I know developers have made the connection with FF10 and FF7, but if they’ve never mentioned FF7 and FF13 are linked then it’s not canon and it’s merely speculation.
I'm leaning more towards Zack existing in the life stream and being blocked by Jenova from returning to the planet, which is actually in the original compilation.
Oh! Nice theory and great vid
Wow damn good video I hope Maximilian dood gets to see this
Haha thank you for your kind words! But come on dude this is nothing compared to other creators far more talented than me. I’d probably put Maximilian dood to sleep lol. Your words really mean a lot to me though and motivate me to continue improving
This is pretty good.
Kyrie literally doesn't know anybody though really and she is alive and well in both worlds.
Also, the sleeping Cloud in Zack's world, which you didn't touch on at all for some reason, could be the same Cloud we see saying, "Re..ui...nion." in one of the early trailers. This in itself could lead to some crazy theories lol.
I really urge you to watch the 1 hour time travel theory video that is making the rounds.
The amount of evidence from the OG to support this theory, as well the Remake, is incredibly detailed and compelling.
I really do think "Future" Sephiroth is trying to make a "Purgatory" world, Zack's world, where life and death do not exist.
A world without the life streams influence so he can rule as a god.
He is going to do things differently this time, most likely and including, not killing Aerith at the Forgotten Capital, although I do think she dies somewhere.
I also think that Aerith had something to do with Zack's perceived survival, to combat Sephiroth in his "reality", as Sephiroth keeping Zack alive makes no sense as he's probably the 2nd strongest SOLDIER to ever exist, unless he can somehow activate the Jenova cells in Zack and turn him into his instrument, which is a whole other theory I have lol.
So many moving parts to every theory though.
This is why I like that it's not a true 1 to 1.
Otherwise, there would be no hype really, and nothing to talk about.
And, this is one of the main reasons that I can comfortably say that this is my most hyped game ever.
Thanks for commenting dude! And I actually touch on Cloud in a separate video and you're correct its a wild theory lol. I didn't specifically talk about him in this video though because I focused on the wanted posters to compare the two worlds and he's absent from them. But when I refer to everyone being "dead" in Zacks world, that of course includes Cloud, Aerith, and Red XIII.
And I'm gonna be honest man I don't know if I have an hour to spare to watch that lol. I hardly watch youtube videos as it is simply because I don't have the time. But link it anyways in case I get around to it! Perhaps I can watch it in chunks while I'm on lunch break or something.
It sounds kind of similar to my very first two videos I did. Basically that the world we see Zack in is "true" world that Sephiroth created, and where his plan can come to fruition, while the world Cloud is in is basically a distraction so Sephiroth can succeed. I also touch on how Zack may have been an oversight to Sephiroths plan and may be the reason his plan fails in the end.
I have to agree with you on this not being a 1 to 1 Remake! You're absolutely right. If it was 1 to 1 really the only thing we could discuss are moments we're looking forward to, but now we get to discuss so much more!
@@EikonicGamer Yeah man! My bad, didn’t know you already went over, let’s call him, Alt-Cloud, which to me, may even be more interesting than Zack haha.
Regardless of what happens, I think we can agree that this game is about to be a journey.
God you get it. Im not sure what they're going to go for in the end just yet, I can't wait to be on this wild ride but there is def not some crazy multiple timelines thing going on. Kitase himself explained that the main reason for part 1's ending was to create hype and buzz surrounding the game and to keep consistent discussion and speculation happening so that the fandom wouldn't lose steam when Rebirth finally came out. Its been 4 years, if there was nothing to theorize for old fans, new fans would eventually be stuck like okay wtf what happens next, and the only thing keeping the excitement alive would be "ahhhh what a nice nostalgia trip that was....anyway moving on" which would not only have been disappointing and boring for many old fans by the time the next part came, but also for the devs!! In the end they are also doing this remake for their own enjoyment.
Instead, new players seeing the characters be shown that some horrible destiny/future awaits them, and they don't accept it (alluding to them having a whole new endgame in store for us that surpasses the original, easily), not only creates excitement for what comes next, but gives more concrete reason for the characters to go around the world chasing Sephiroth to stop him and doing everything else along the way, along with some new stuff! In the original, you don't know jack shit about the real threat of the game or even who tf Sephiroth even is by the time you leave Midgar. Nowadays that would be incredibly weak writing and storytelling and I will not let nostalgia allow me to think otherwise. Now I know exactly how much of a looming, mindfuckery threat Sephiroth and Jenova are, and the Nibelheim flashback is going to humanize him a bit to new players as well, showing them HOW he got to this twisted version of himself. Its genius!