What I've noticed with with a lot of these Wing Chun 'experts' is once there is any semblance of a semi-real, anything goes fight against other styles, most of their Wing Chun footwork and stance goes, and minus perhaps their signature chain punches, they fight increasingly like (messy) boxers/kickboxers/streetfighters/brawlers.
I met one at a young center. I got my ass handed to me, and the sifu was not even putting in effort. I only trained in muay thai and wrestling for a year, so my skills are average at best. But I seen my friend who trained muay thai for 10 plus years, have difficulty against the wing chun sifu. The sifu does indeed charge for his classes.
Smooth Bee I agree. They always claim to be of a certain style but it always devolves into bad kickboxing or MMA. I could claim my style as shio jiang fu or whatever and I could make all these pretty movements in the air but if you but some boxing or MMA gloves me and have me spar, I'm going to revert to boxing or kickboxing. If we end up in the clinch it's going to look like wrestling or BJJ. It's not because I chose to but because physics makes all the other crap impossible.
Bee Nice yes for real it's true, it's why human fighting is the way human fighting simply is, once the opponent is continuously moving, most of them fail to reach the opponents, then they have to do boxing instead...honestly people who use wing chun to win is moving and defending the way a boxer would do, which is supposed to be like that or they become a punching bag for the opponent...
I mainly rely on boxing but I use wing tsun too to add variety to my fighting style. It's good to have a variety of options because fights can get messy.
It's all boils down to the basic foundation of every martial arts. It all begins with proper stances. Without proper stances one cannot achieve proper footwork. Without proper footwork, there's no proper distance. And without proper distance there can never be the proper timing. You remove the foundation of your art then you remove its essence. You remove its essence then you remove its effectiveness.
Well that has nothing to do with it. He should be able to make contact and close the distance. Staying far away gives the advantage to the tall guy not the short guy. He also dropped his hands.
Yeah except when you get attacked you wont BE in a proper stance, you will he just standing or sitting . If you cant explode with a couple of decisive strikes out of stance then its not really martial arts .
@@mightymeatmonsta redirection is a massive myth. I heard that so many times over the years across a handful of martial arts, but really it came down to boring old what you would expect, using your force against them, not the other way around. The exemption is striking somebody as they step forward onto your punch . Redirection, oh please.
Bruce Lee found this out long time ago, a brazilian jkd instructor showed this in one of his videos; that when a wing chun practitioner does a straight blast, they are vulnerable from being hit with an overhand, a boxer can simply step out and do an overhand punch.
+Rommel Cruz Sager that's why you never do a straight blast for real. It's too predictable. Only inexperienced Sifus teach this approach to real fighting. The problem is not the art but the approach to training it.
+Fight SCIENCE Why did this vid imply boxers don`t ever use straight punches? Bad boxers throw haymakers. Along with hooks jabs and straight rear hand punches are thrown plus Ali was the master at controlling distance so what was wing chun meant to bring to the table?
Right, which is why it doesn't work on anyone but the extremely inexperienced! You don't do chain punching unless you make contact FIRST, close the distance PROPERLY (using an angled step and body rotation towards the attack to move away from the attack and close the distance), and trap the arm and leg (hopefully). THEN you can use chain punching properly.
like Bruce said, this is easy to do against a dummy or punching bag, but your partner move! He is moving constantly and will certainly not let you get inside your comfo distance that easy. in here, you see that the boxer have a clear advantage of lengh and the only chance the sifu have is to close the distance fast and get inside range, which, of course the boxer try and succeed at making him miss. WC was created to fight close range, not sidestepping around a boxer.
So wing chun has to adapt to the modern and effective fighting style by adding in footwork, timing and distancing, right? I am not saying that it is not a good thing to do so, but at the end of the day when you incorporate those things to make your wing chun effective you will realize that you are fighting in the exact same Boxing way - So why don't just start off with Boxing then to save all those unnecessary "journey" lol. You are just re-inventing the wheel!
No, it already HAS that in the traditional form. It is also COMPLETE in the traditional form, and is INCOMPLETE in the modified system. This is why you have to learn the complete traditional system, which has all the aspects needed, like grappling, stand up, weapons, and multiple opponent training, which is missing in any sports-oriented martial arts and in modified wc also.
No, because traditional wing chun is soft/hard system and runs on concepts, and has no initial flaws, and boxing is a hard system, runs on techniques, and is extremely flawed!! To improve your wing chun, you must learn the wing chun footwork (the circle inside the triangle), which includes the angled step to the outside of the attacking arm, and the body rotation towards the attack, to see it coming , and also pull you away for the attack as well. It is far superior to boxing!
I studied Wing Chun, and I can tell the King Fu guy abandoned all footwork. He made the mistake many kung fu practitioners make, their footwork fails and they try to match the opponent. He also tries to attack head on, completely forgetting the 45 degree 📐 angles of attack.
The largest factor seems to be the style of training. You can master all forms and techniques within any given style but without training your arts application within sparing, matches or street fights, its next to impossible to contend with a seasoned fighter. Boxing gyms have a huge focus on matches and sparring, distance and reflex is drilled into a boxer but not all schools/dojos have the same focus.
Fast forward to 1:40 if you want to skip the author speaking without actually conveying any message. "The right move at the wrong time, is the wrong move." Very astute observation. Does this also mean the right answer is actually the wrong answer, if applied at the wrong question/problem? Who would've ever guessed that, absolutely brilliant thinking my man!
This man has it correct, distance, timing, and foot work, and accuracy are essential to winning a fight. Too bad wc does not teach you any of the above.
Okay I train WC. Every time I see someone fight online using WC all they do is try to chain punch. His footwork was off, His balance was off, His center was off, His pressure was off, ect. Why does no one use gan sao? Notice a lot of people because they train this way do one move then stop and pose. Instead of reacting to next move or just continuing in to finish. Now I do the same thing from time to time from repetition. But looks like a bunch of posing positions than actual technique. People need to train for reality! When you train punch with real intent or you will learn absolutely nothing.
You have a phone with a camera right? Put on some gloves on and spar someone, upload and show us how many gan sao you can do in that fight. If you train for reality this should not be hard
One important key factor not mentioned in this video, is the fact the boxer has a very long reach advantage with his lead hand. He pretty much used his jab as both a measuring tool as well as a way to stop the Wing Chun guy's forward momentum the whole fight. Trying to rush forward against a tall, experienced boxer with good footwork is a sure way to constantly get countered too. The main reason the Wing Chun guy got KO'd at 2:31 is due to the fact he rushed forward with a lazy punch, leaving his chin exposed, and also the fact he became predictable with the same approach a few times before, creating a perfect reading signal for the boxer to "feel" and eventually capitalize on that opening. They say against a tall-boxer-puncher, you should cut off the ring on them. In this case though, I feel strongly that the boxer is just too experienced. It would take many years of learning proper boxing technique, with lots and lots of sparring to be able to do that. A few weeks would not cut it.
Peter Liakakos I say you are mostly correct. however, in your own statement you still boil it down to proper application of technique/ strategy. in my opinion, it was a very bad strategy. his height is not the issue, as a good fighter would easily neutralize that strength and even turn it into a weekness
True. A good smaller fighter who knows how to correctly "cut off the ring" on the taller boxer, while being defensively responsible enough not to get countered in the process is what will work.
they like to advertise wing chun as an art that is for the smaller person to defeat the bigger person.. hope they realize that its all bullshit now.. most of the time, the bigger will always defeat the smaller..
Even a skilled smaller fighter can have problems against an equally skilled taller fighter. Sometimes it boils down to situation, whoever has the right mindset during that particular day or night, and of course will power/psychology/emotions/fitness/timing/etc
Wing-chun is made for the trapping range. Trapping range lets you utilize all your tools for example: knees, elbows puches and kicks. Boxing range just lets you use punches and kicks and kicking range just allows kicks. These are facts. Being able to stay in a certain range you fight well in or being able to switch between them is a skill every fighter will need. The boxer in this video stayed in boxing range and made he wing-chun "master" stay out of his preffered range hence the boxer won this "fight". The only difference is that wing-chun is made for the street once boxers get in trapping range they clinch(grappling range) until the fight gets restarted by the refferee. MMA/UFC is a good example for fighting in all the ranges and shows us you must be comfortable in all ranges to win. BUT in a street fight most of the times someone doesnt want to fight and just wants to go home and live his life. Maybe they can't show bruses on their work or they just generally don't want to fight. In MMA, boxing or this "fight" they wanted to fight eachother. In a real fight if one doesnt want to fight the other will close the gap from boxing to trapping range .Since you can probably run away from kicking range and kicks make you fall easily most of the attacks will be wild punches from boxing to trapping range. Wing-chun intercepts in this moment with a faster punch structured so that it allows force from the opponent to go into the ground. Any force from the opponent that is not aimed towards your own center will not be faught against to use less energy. By shifting your body weight into a punch, having good structure, protecting your vitals, having faster reactions due to chi sao and not using as much energy you can see why it makes the game more even for smaller, weaker practitioners. BUT only with not kidding yourself, realistic practice and control over distance and timing wing chun will work for you on the street. one year of training cannot by definition make you better than a boxer whos trained one year in his sport, cause they might train more realistic and develop better timing and distance control. Fighting is al relative it's the fighter his opponent and everything else that can dictate the outcome.
I'm a grappler (BJJ) so I don't really favor one style over the other which makes me a bit more objective. I don't all that much about Wing Chun but it seems like this video is a very unfair portrayal of WC. The boxer is just so much taller and also seems a lot more experienced in fighting as well as tougher! This might sounds weird coming from a BJJ guy but all those constant comparisons of different fighting leads us absolutely nowhere! If you're naturally a good boxer than do boxing, if you're a WC-guy do that instead, if you're a grappler do Judo or BJJ or wrestling! An athletic individual that can do any of those arts is going to be able to defend themselves to a certain extent against a guy, and that's really all you can hope for realistically!!
WC makes the claim that it is effective against much bigger opponents. Pound per pound boxers hit much harder than than most of not all the martial arts. I agree with your observation that the WC guy was at a disadvantage using gloves because he couldn't grapple and trap. That being said boxers counter punch much more effectively and are not limited to straight line punching. Also boxers are taught to circle while WC tends to walk in a straight line through their opponents. Also the WC was following boxing rules and was not able to use his feet to enter the Boxers space or use low kicks... this is not a good example of either discipline. The WC was clearly at a disadvantage if this was a street fight the outcome might have been very different
The Background of this fight...The WC teacher (yes he ran a school) challenged the Boxer who was the Hong Kong Amateur Boxing Champion to a bout after he made comments about how the WC system will defeat Boxing etc and boxers were skeptical. In a separate fight at the same place, a WC student who disparaged karate on a blog was also knocked out by a karate guy who challenged him. The WC master here picked his opponent and said size and reach didn't matter....
I think someone who has no real fighting experience whether this be against other styles of martial arts or within his own style, this is a flaw in their training principle.. wing chun or tsun has a fatal floor.. that is it doesn't work and when you get a pissing contest between 2 martial arts and the only why both boxing and karate beat wing chun in this case is neither the student nor master have combat skill and once you get the shit knocked out of you, find how practically useless your martial arts is when you never compete against the same style or another style in this case.. this video shows you the wing chun master is full of bullshit and can't fight out of a wet paper bag no matter of qualification the master has.. sometimes bragging that you are better sometimes lands you knee deep in shit because you aren't a fighter to begin with and it shows when you hit the deck due to a TKO Sad to say it pays no to run your mouth up at a fighter with in ring experience vs someone that doesn't no matter the sill you have in teaching if you NO EXPERIENCE IN THE RING you are going to get the shit knocked out of you everytime you fight because you aren't a fighter to begin with and you end up loosing your student base because you ran your mouth and lost not once but twice, though in this situation i think we can safely say several times.. Pointless doing a pissing contest calling out other martial arts systems when you can't fight worth a damn.. and your actions cause disharmony in the martial arts community as you end up putting the style into disrepute due to your own incompetency... best not to brag when you can't exactly fight yourself.. A straight punch may work if you land a hit, though looking at the reach advantage the boxer you were never going to WIN the fight to begin with because the other fighter had A. reach advantage B. had more combat experience than you.. C. running mouth Claiming you're better when you have no proof D. you are not spreading what is best about your martial arts when you openly challenge people only to find out how useless of a fighter you really are and disrespect whatever the teaching you received because you can not fight when you challenge someone.. don't let your dick do the talking because you are going to loose everytime you issue a challenge
Unfair advantage ?You have to be ready to defend yourself regardless of size weight speed or strength in the streets you don't get to choose .SHIT happens and you have to be aware of your surroundings.
You being in BJJ should know size and height mean absolutely nothing. Fighting a taller guy you close the distance, shorter guy jab or leg to keep him off. Experience and practice show you how to measure up with each.
I love this...I have been training for years in Wing Chun and try to improve my techniques with whomever but....l hate when people or instructors try to prove their art is more effective than other art...I train to fight, protect my family...friends...maybe a citizen...not put down boxing...mma...jujitsu.. karate...Thai...or any training style. No ONE style is better than all others...it's your training that better prepares you for an ambush or attack. No disrespect but all this nonsense is based on getting more students and money...the problem with martial artist...we all THINK we can kick someone else's ass...Until...✊💥👊😪
Zebrak Ying Well you're probably right. Cause I don't box...but my survival skills are what l try to improve every day. My Chun is effective, I know, my Thai, and judo are also. But that has nothing with why people think one fighter can beat another just off of paper. It's still the person and their skill set....you must be young. No offense to young people...I'm not concerned whether a boxer can beat me...more concerned about getting home safe.
vrcdragan : well I can't spar you to see if what you say is correct...sooooo I guess all this keyboard sparring is useless. Hope what you do protects you and your family, mine does and have...my useless wing chun that is. Have a great week.
vrcdragan... great chatting with you sir. I am an officer and in my 50s. I have been training for over 35yrs...I have trained and sparred with my Chun with other disciplines. Saved me from street conflicts countless times. I learned how to apply the principles of wing chun in my attacks and defense. Not all techniques work in real time but most do. Throw in some other training just in case I end up in something chun doesn't work well. I love the art of fighting and survival...doing WHATEVER you have to do to live, not to look flashy or to say my art is better than another cause that is not true. Thanks for your words and have a great week. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
that's bollocks, dude. a proficient WC practitioner would have a good chance IMO. You just probably have never seen any real wing chun being used. these sorts of martial arts take decades to master at 1 lesson a week and even then it is nothing like a true master using it. You only have to look at shaolin monks to really understand real kung fu and proper training regiments. pressure points, eye gouges, nut shots. how is boxer going to defend from a kick straight to the nuts? they don't even train to defend against bellow the belt blows. and for the record I don't train in wing chun, I train in 7 star mantis boxing. a 7 star mantis adept is fucking lethal though, it's the original mixed martial art. They can rip your throat out with their bare hands. the arm lock techniques are perfect against someone throwing straight jabs. I do agree however boxing is great to learn something fast that works. Sambo is also sick. I want to do some Muay Thai as well at some point, but need to get my fitness back up as I'm getting pretty old now. I think MMA gives people a bad impression of what real kung fu can do as so much of it is simply not possible in MMA. I also box (western) I did judo and free style karate when I was a kid as well. at the end of the day though my friend, it;s more down to the fighter than the style in my honest and humble opinion. No style is better, you just have better fighters,.
It has not much time since I subscribed to this channel, but I've been learning a lot here, that is not only teaching me how to be a better martial arts practitioner, but also to act and be more masculine.
This video illustrates the point of range: Wing Chun fighters need to get in to be effective and stay in rather than in and out. A boxer is further away and can comfortably pick you off with little effort as we saw but that's not to say that boxers are not comfortable at hooking and uppercut range.
They need to remove the rules like no elbows, no kicks, no close range leg locks, no hand gripping (wearing boxing gloves). Being an art of control, Wingchun is so useless when u implement rules that limits its potential.
Time after time , I see WingChun fighters make the same mistake, they advance and retreat. Wing Chun is effective at close range so retreating makes no sense . It is NOT meant for and should never be used to spar at the arms length range. At that range, you kick his balls / knee caps / toes with a low straight front kick . This 'master' deserved what he got.
So a WC master doesn't even know what range he effective at in a fight? Also if close range is where WC is so good then why dont we ever see a video of someone using WC to actually win a fight against a boxer who is also operating at the same range? Hell why don't we ever see a WC person win ANY kind of striking fight or street fight, all striking fights spent time in this range at some point or another.
@@driver3899 watch Qi Lala against a kickboxer, he only does Wing Chun but trains like a boxer or kickboxer, this will help the question: "Hell why don't we ever see a WC person win ANY kind of striking fight or street fight..." have an amazing day.
@@driver3899 I see you might have seen the fight, if you want I can also show you a video of a WC guy against a karate practicioner in a karate school but maybe you have already seen it and the WC guy is good but not Qi Lala level so yeah your choice.(and I think even another one)Unless you think it's not needed than God bless you and have an amazing day.
Wing Chun couldn't be used in an actual street fight in terms of getting into the stance etc, as you wouldn't have time, people would find it odd. However..during your scuffle, certain blocks/counter-attacks can be utilised if used correctly, they can work, so it is good for straight-on close-quarters, but only briefly/subtly, and incorporated into your scuffle....Most guys these days all think they're boxers, so they're really predictable getting into a boxing stance and dancing over to you, they don't think of kicking, just trying to go for the knock-out, or grab u and throw you about. Real fights are animal-instinct, lip-pulling, eye-gouging etc, and if you can get them manoeuvres in, even boxing goes out of the window in the real world....
WC does not teach distance control.. most schools only teach you chi sao.. thats why it fails.. distance control is the basics in boxing/kickboxing/mma. .thats why these styles win wc ALL THE TIME.. im sure sometimes a wing chun guy can beat a boxer.. but usuallty it doenst look like wc at all..
+CombatFitness actually I would agree and yet disagree to a point. There are long range strategies in Wing Chun. You only have to look at the weapons forms and methods of training to understand the control of distance exists in Wing Chun. In fact, it is key to control distance when fighting with weapons generally. Perhaps the point you hit on is more the method of training. Agreed many Wing Chun schools (not all) focus primarily on Chi Sao which is often static in location. In my opinion, this is lazy training, but understandable when you are teaching middle aged people. The problem is in the approach to training to fight not the martial art. Thanks for watching. Have a great day.
then how come a master of wing chun was unable to demonstate the range and distance control in this video? anybody can be a master in wing chun now adays? and also why practice chi sao if you're not going to use it.. i didnt see the wing chun master do any hand trapping in this video.. notice how in wing chun you trap a hand and counter, and then they teach you multiple ways to do it, yet when the fight starts it disappears.. do you know that even bruce lee later on in his years moved away from trapping cause he realized it was kinda useless.. i mean using it as a principal is fine, but for it to be a drill in wing chun is stupid and a waste of time. how you fight is how you train. if in traning you end up doing these hand trapping stuff, and in your fight you cant even pull it off, its better to disregard it
CombatFitness I'm not experienced in Wing Chun, but I have a kung fu brother who swears by trapping and uses it all the time in fights. he says, and I'd agree, that it's all about proper training. Wing Chun wouldn't make such a big deal out of it if it wasn't effective. Bruce may have just decided his time was better spent on training something else; that's just personal preference, not a measure of effectiveness. How long did Bruce study Wing Chun, anyway? just a few years, right?
bruce lee was all about doing what worked and discarding what didnt.. during the first ufc event, wing chun masters also took part.. so far 2 of them took part in it and got demolished in the first round.. there was also jason deluca who was a shaolin animal stylist.. he got beaten up easily and then he discarded shaolin. and here are some of the reason why ' MULTIPLE trapping' doesnt work. please listen and tell me whether you agree. 1) to trap a punch means you are able to predict the punch that is coming. in boxing/kickboxing/mma, one may throw a jab and yes that is easy to trap(pak sao) and counter.. but then once the boxer fakes the jab and throws the left hook , it gets hard to trap already. because every move is done in a split second. what you thought was a jab to parry ended being a hook.. and to stop a hook, you have to move your hand in an outward direction.. while to stop the jab, its more of an inward direction. 2) wing chun teaches you to parry the right cross, there is no high guard in wing chun or blocking.. its more of deflecting the force away from you. when you aim to parry the straight right, it might end up as a hooping punch. and trust me, boxers are able to be very deceptive with these motions.. 3) boxers who throw jabs to the body and then feinting it as a left hook up at your face will confuse the fuck out of any wing chun guy.. because now if you drop your hands to parry that body jab, then the boxer can land his right hand on your face.. but if you block the body jab using your elbows, you'll realise that you're essentially doing a basic boxing guard, which is not taught in wing chun. 4) punches fly out so fast that there is too little time to trap. the whole point of trapping is to trap and counter.. but how are you going to trap if you dont know the intention of the boxer.. is he going to body jab me? or is he going to punch me up high? what if he hits high then low? or low then high? or will it be low and low? that is why trapping is useless. FIGHT SCIENCE, i would like you to respond to this as well..
Again, I'm not that familiar with Wing Chun, but the guy I train with has about 45 years of training and fighting and he loves to trap. He also has experience in several martial arts, so I can't tell you whether outer not he is using "pure" Wing Chun. Also, much of his experience comes from JKD. You don't have time to think in a fight, that is what proper training is all about. Ask a Navy SEAL. Or some other professional fighter. It is likely they will say the same thing. So "predicting" what your opponent is going to do will almost never work. You know, our Fight Science sifu (with respect, sir), has some awesome videos on the subject around here somewhere...
locking in to the linear center line can't work with out options of angled retreat and attack. I have faced this. And in every martial art, there are holes you can either benefit or fall into.
I wouldn't call that a wing chun master, he doesn't use the Wing Chun footwork. That boxer has no respect for that guy (rightfully so) because he's a BOXER who not even keep his hands up, that's just how little he thinks of the guy, confirmed later @2:04. This vid is less about boxing vs wing chun and more about who would win; a tall guy or a shorter guy.
You are right. He is modified and does not know the proper footwork. No, it's about how wing chun DOES NOT WORK in its modified form(except for Wong Shun Leung's system, which does!)! It only works in the traditional form, with the complete footwork, angled step and body rotation towards the attack.
No, it's about an incomplete modified system that sucks and not the traditional system, which is complete! A TWC guy would DESTROY any boxer, muay thai clown, karate guy, jiu jitsu idiot, or any other boxing derivative because it has all the elements needed for the streets and boxing derivatives do not!!!
@@mightymeatmonsta yeah ok 👌 It seems that you have completely missed the point of the video. Do yourself a favor and keep posting your dumbass comments on the internet. It makes it easier for those of us who know amd understand the fundamentals and principles he speaks about in this video to spot a poser who doesn't know shit from apple butter, and only thinks he can fight. Be well.
Not for nothing Sifu- but it seems odd to me that there's a sort of alienation between boxers and WC. This is the wrong approach completely, I say they should be natural brothers not feuding neighbors. A boxer can take anything from WC that he finds helpful or useful, likewise a WC man can improve by picking up whatever boxing he can use. Why limit ourselves? I will not rule out any technique in a real street fight. Boxing is very instinctive, lots of gross (large muscle) motor movements and is proven effective in many situations. WC is very efficient, is a great starting point and absorbs other arts well. At the very advanced levels WC works, I have seen it. I've heard of one Sifu that likes to mix his WC with Pak Mei, if he has to use it that will be a very short fight guaranteed.
Wrong! You do not want to mix wing chun with any crappy, second-rate system! It ruins the wing chun! You want to learn the WHOLE TRADITIONAL SYSTEM, WHICH IS COMPLETE! Then you don't have to mix it with any other system because it is the best system out there.
if you do some research there's a undefeated miltary boxer who is now a wing chun master and studied under bruce lee. wong shun leung bruce less wing chun teacher was a undefeated fighter in hong kong he started out as a boxer then he learned wing chun. boxers learn wing chun not the other way around. i have not heard of have wing chun masters switch and start teaching boxing. i'm not saying there's nothing learn from boxing. the one thing i willl give boxing is footwork as wsl probably put in boxing footwork . but statements like mix it up implies the art is lacking in some area when it simply isn't. wing chun is a complete fighting system.
Why do people keep saying that??? Boxing uses LINEAR movement for the most part, which sucks!! Come on now, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY GET HIT SO MUCH??? Use your damn head! CORRECT! It is a complete system in it's traditional form! Hey Jet, how is Spike, Faye, Edward and Ein?
I'm not trolling. All the information is correct and has been thoroughly researched over time. It comes from masters, sifus and grandmasters with many years, sometimes decades, of experience.
Sorry, i disagree. You cannot add ANYTHING to wing chun. It destroys the wing chun and makes it even crappier, stiff and rigid and limits it's responses to an attack!
I like you a lot sifu ( sub'd because of your fair and honest approach which is a rarity among tradtional style instructors today )....because you dont sugar coat the fact that some things just are gonna have a different outcome, especially in mixed style match ups. Id like to also add my humble opinion to your reasons list if I may. This comes from former experience in Jeet Kune Do which, as you may well know has origins in Wing Chun & Western Boxing techniques ( especially the early Jun Fan Gung Fu ). My reasons combine scientific theory with traditional reasons from the Wing Chun system ( apologies for LONG POST INCOMING in advance : 1. The boxer was a lot bigger than the instructor which also means a superior reach as well as weight. In a fight where strikes are concerned even a system weak to another systems attack, this can be offset by the size of the person using the "weaker" technique at the moment. No disrespect to sifu Moore in this video and while he DOES show proper technique and knowledge, watch as he using the same theory in essence of center punching vs round style attacks, he easily bowls over this karate black belt. He is able to do this not so much due to technique, but because of his size and weight which constitutes to a larger person pushing forward with more mass : ruclips.net/video/PhnnRYK9JNc/видео.html 2. Limiting of techniques : As above with the smaller person being at a disadvantage due to wearing gloves and size / weight ( this is why there are weight classes in combat sports for that very reason ) the sifu was limiting because of the test he was attempting and could not, trap, lock, sweep and especially KICK. Wing Chun is known for having distracting low kicks to set up the legendary hand speed with punches. In addition the boxer was wearing slip on foot wraps which leads me to believe he has experience with and / or against kicking techniques below the waist. 2. ( con't ) :This is apparent when a kick is attempted and the boxer "takes" it on the thigh. He "bucks" his thigh INTO the kick to check it. Sometimes called a half check as we used to call it in kickboxing. you raise the foot of the checking leg, but not off the ground and it nullifies a lot of the power of the incoming kick. You wouldnt always want to check low kicks this way, but the boxer kept the sifu off balance enough like this and dissuaded such attacks. 3. Stamina : Boxers usually have a strict diet, do LOTS of cardio, and do a ton of conditioning exercises.They are taught to "keep moving forward" even when in PAIN or losing. These are all qualities to win a fight which, let's be honest has well over the amount of rounds an AVERAGE person would be winded even martial artists. Id also like to point out that Bruce Lee who as we know started in Wing Chun and mastered its three forms in THREE nights ( a natural master ) said that he preferred the physical fitness of boxing styles over much more traditional training for such fitness. Remember boxing wasnt always a sport with so many rules either. 3. ( con't ) : Ancient Greeks would take two guys with crude cloth or leather wrappings and then two more men would grab two staves and "box" them in by putting the staves around them and keeping them in this primitive mobile cage until one of the two boxers ko'd the other one. Fighters were often crippled with blunt force trauma to the head for life or worse, killed by being punched to death. Boxing matches, even in the later centuries in the 1800's often showed the fighters headbutting, pulling hair, and even stomping on downed opponents much like the early UFC fights back in the 1990's! This is why the Marquis of Queensberry rules were introduced in the late 1800's and didn't even come to the US into the 1870's.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_Rules 4. Contact : Once again most traditional martial artist's rarely do FULL contact sparring while boxers rarely do the opposite ( light contact sparring ). This can clearly be scene by the times the sifu DOES score some hits and the boxer seems unfazed by them ( in addition to the above reasons ). Once again great breakdown video and sorry for the ton of text! I tried to make it easy on the eyes with paragraphs.
i dare you to fight a professional boxer (who's your same hight and weight class) and beat him to prove your point there is a bunch of good boxers on youtube just talk to one of them and back up everything you say
what I'm trying to say is you look like a pretty good "Wing Chun" master, and I like the content that you provide. that said, I don't think this style of fighting would beat boxing (under boxing rules). if you think otherwise then just prove me wrong and fight a skilled boxer (within your weight class) and beat him
Let's face it. Wing Chun has a lot of elements in it which were only made up for entertaining purposes while boxing is focused on effectiveness in a fist fight. Thus I think that the boxer would win most of the times even if it was a freefight.
@@Nostromo-Br you can only punch certain areas. If you punch the forehead or cheek you're hitting bone and it will hurt and might break your hand. That's why real martial arts aims for the nose, ears, neck, etc.
The core pro (1)/cons(9) of wc are- 1. Range, they try for sticky hands/trapping and lose to hugs, double legs, and clench. 2. Power, they simply do not rotate or extend enough to generate knockout punches (bruce lee was MMA not pure WC). Power only means something if there is followthrough, which wc lacks. 3. Reach, they have a square stance which limits their reach. When fighting an opponent with a longer reach, one needs either the blade stance or great gap closers (tyson bob/weave or tackles) 4. Mindset, they foolishly limit themselves to primarily straight punches, which makes them too predictable. 5. Balance, they tend to statically lean on their back foot which limits backwards footwork and makes forward footwork too obvious. 6. Challange, they simply do not push themselves hard enough compared to competitive athletes. 7. Tradition, they are too obsessed with training based on what some guy under yip man did, nevermind that WCs most famous student totally disregarded tradition. 8. Touch, since the focus on trapping is so developed, they are often blind to punches from opponents that dont maintain touch (ie, boxers). 9. Movement, the wc dummy is too stationary, as are most wc practioners. They often 'plant' and trap. Pro's Sticky hands is good tactile training for grappling, however instead on focusing on weak punches, it should focus more on elbows, headbutts, throws, trips, and takedowns. Also a ground version of this could be great in bjj. Out of place, but..maybe WC would work with weapons. The linear movement and stabbing motions might make this style blend well with shield wearing, gladius wearing, ranks of dense legionares. Too bad it's useless now.
If you want to be able to fight you have to work out against those who train in boxing and MMA which has no forms or stylized system. Its all about good conditioning. Being able to take a punch. Knowing what to do against a take down and being able to fight on the ground. Pro boxers spar all the time. Most martial art school have sparing at the end of class. Board breaking, complex forms and impractical techniques are taught.
This was not a wing chun practitioner. Sorry that's just fact. The first key this poster mentioned is EVERYTHING in wing chun. A wing chun practitioner would have remained; for the most part, motionless with a balanced stance and arms extended pointing at opponent. He would not dance around and keep his hands down at his waist. He would have closed the gap and not retreated more than one step backwards. ESPECIALLY since his opponent was taller than him; he would have got in as close as he could and would have used redirection and counterstrikes. He did none of this.
Libs Hate Montesquieu Wing Chun is not an invincible art and yes it can be beaten. There is no unbeatable form of fighting. I am not defending the guys that lost on here; what I'm saying is that they are using what looks standard low level martial arts moves they learned watching movies and not using wing chun. Too many videos on here say "wing chun vs."; and i watch them and its nothing like the art
when you are a master you know ,"take nothing for granted ".in a fight everything counts and you must expect the unexpected. because in a fight where life could be on the line ,you don't want it to be yours.
Excellent break down. If its WC vs Boxing. both systems need to use all their tools. Meaning WC will defiantly not want to play in the boxers range and game with nothing but his hands unless hes trained for it which is usually not the case.
As usual, here we can see the series of comments of "experts" judging the whole Wing Chun-system as "useless" from their comfortable couch, while they watch a single sparring session between two people, of whom they totally ignore the background. This approach to martial arts, which divides them in "useful" and "useless", says something not on the validity of martial arts, but only on this horrible consumerist society, which hopefully will disappear one day.
it took me 4 years to get the sensitivity and timing to become a proficient wing chun practitioner. It took me about 6 months to be proficient at boxing. what a lot of wc practitioners fail to realise is that it's a concept martial art that can be applied at any angle with simultaneous blocking and striking. when applying a solid foundation of wc to boxing it really does work well in the ring. it helps you to counter before the opponent has a chance to move. wc is a counterattacking defensive martial art and only effective when used as such. use boxing offensively and wc defensively.
I am a Wing Chun Sifu. And I must be honest. I am so tired of seeing such pathetic displays of Wing Chun by practitioners that give it such a bad display of what its actual true capabilities are able to achieve in a real combative situation. Pathetic really. So sad
Good commentary. Practiced Judo for years and appreciate the skills that i learned but they are still a set of skills that can only be applied at certain times with certain attackers. However it can be effective
Right. Judo IS good, but only in certain instances like you so aptly said! That is why you need to supplement judo with other systems, including stand up and grappling, to complete it.
Lord Duck, maybe they are fake certified martial arts experts, but you are a true certified Couch-Fu and MTA (Mixed Tongue Arts) master! Respect, from brave people like you, all of us have only to learn ;)...
This guy here only knows the crappy modified and is no where near to being a master. No one in his right mind would stand right in front of a boxer. It's just too dangerous! If this were a REAL traditional wc guy, that guy would have been unconscious in a minute because we know the proper footwork and use an angled step and body rotation towards the attack to see it coming. This guy doesn't even know how to make and maintain contact, which is what you are supposed to do, and then move in to close the distance. He is fighting the boxer's fight because he is staying at mid range, and not closing in to close combat range, which is the wing chun strong point!
@@mightymeatmonsta Yes, but it is quite easy to comment such situations, when you are not there fighting against your opponent. If you ever made sparring in your life, you would know that it happens all the time that people get stiff, inhibited and not able anymore to control the distance or even their own movements. It can happen also to professionals. The boxer in the video is simply more self-confident than the WC-guy. Not therefore I am ready to define someone "fake master", as the true Couch-fu master above.
Eric Talbot ,that "limitation" was in his cardio and conditioning, and prompted him to do more workouts. He won the fight, but was dismayed by how mucb energy it took. Therefore, IMO, wing chun isn't the problem, but a lack of fitness and athleticism often is.
Eric Talbot And then he found flaws in every fighting style he studied so he made his own martial art. He discarded what was useless, added what was useful and what worked for him. After all not everything will work for everyone and Bruce knew it. After all im a short guy and if i was to fight a tall guy i better work on a way to get inside or i would get knocked the f***k out!
Wong Jack Man was a well-respected and seasoned Shaolin Kung Fu master in Chinatown. Bruce Lee was relatively unknown at that time. Bruce Lee had only learnt 2/3rds of the standard Wing Chun system under Ip Man and Wong Shun Leung before moving from Hong Kong to USA. Shaolin Kung Fu emphasizes a lot of strength, stamina, toughness, etc., training and conditioning, and is a lot more broader and well-rounded martial art than Wing Chun. Wing Chun excels in stand up striking, blocking and countering at close range. Outside its optimum range, Wing Chun no longer dominates. That's one major reason why skilled grapplers, kickers, ground fighters (and in the video above, a boxer with a longer reach) are able to defeat Wing Chun in MMA matches. I've read and heard of Bruce Lee's and Wong Jack Man's accounts of their fight. Having read and heard both sides of the story, it sounded more like a draw/stalemate rather than Bruce Lee easily beating Wong Jack Man. Sure, Bruce Lee had very fast and powerful kicks and punches, probably moreso than Wong Jack Man. Fast punching is where Wing Chun excels. However, once Wong Jack Man got Bruce Lee into a lock, Bruce Lee was immobilised and could have had his joints and bones broken, yet Bruce Lee refused to concede defeat. Wong Jack Man said Bruce Lee was stubborn but Wong didn't want to break Lee's joints and bones just to prove his point. [Not every martial artist would injure, maim, cripple, kill, etc., their opponent just to win a fighting match which is based on ego rather than life or death necessity. I know this serious injuring and killing for ego rather than preserving life is against true Shaolin (Buddhist) principles or any martial art that has a strong spiritual, ethical, moral aspect to it. Unfortunately, this concept has been lost in most martial arts, particularly in the West, where teachers will teach anyone who will use martial arts for any purpose provided they pay money to them. My Chinese kung fu master was against this too.] It's because of this stubborness there was some doubt as to who won. When Wong Jack Man openly challenged Bruce Lee a second time, Bruce Lee did not take up the challenge. [I've come across some people like this before, interestingly, mostly western Wing Chun practitioners. I wasn't going to throw them hard onto concrete, etc., when I had good opportunity to do so, just to prove my point. However, because they were acting nonsensically, I did throw them about a bit on a softer floor later.]
No, that's because Wong Jack Man was a master of Shaolin and Lee was a SIFU AT BEST, who know only about 2/3rds of the crappy MODIFIED system, which in itself, is incomplete! Without the entire system, it becomes very difficult to fight someone who is more experienced than you. This is what happened to Bruce Lee. The incompleteness of his system, BOTH systems, actually (modified wc and JKD), start to show after time. What should have been a quick fight, was turned into a brawl.
@@integratedfightingarts No, not true. Wing chun was designed to be the most efficient system on the planet, AND IT IS! The first concept is ECONOMY OF MOTION, which means to streamline any techniques to take out unnecessary movements to make it quicker, and it also means to end the fight as quickly as possible as well! On that note, it uses way less energy because of the system design and the use of ten concepts, which not only dictate proper response in an attack, but also take out ALL INITIAL FLAWS FOUND IN ALL BOXING DERIVATIVE SYSTEMS!! Since the system was not made to fight for 30 minutes, and was made to end the fight within minutes or less, fitness isn't as much of a problem as actually KNOWING THE WHOLE SYSTEM, AND KNOWING HOW TO USE IT PROPERLY IN A REAL FIGHT SITUATION! We don't use force on force, so we expend much less energy, instead, we rely on the techniques, which work extremely well with positioning and angling, to deflect energy, redirecting it, and causing an opening that we can exploit. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick!! No matter how much you say each is different, it isn't! Unless you have another arm coming out of your forehead, or your cock grows to be enormous and grows a foot, ALL PUNCHES AND KICKS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME, EXCEPT FOR SLIGHT CHANGES IN ANGLE WHICH CAN BE ADDRESSED BY FOOTWORK!! So, in that light, you cannot update something that cannot be changed. This is why traditional wing chun works so well. It has been tested for well over 400 years in wars and in the streets of HONG KONG, thanks to William Cheung and Bruce Lee! It was tested on the rooftops and in the alleyways in Hong Kong as well.
Boxing and wrestling are the oldest styles on earth from kemet martial arts 5-6 thousand years ago ..they are the styles all others styles come from...this wing chun man was never gonna beat a boxer with superior hand techniques ,more speed and a tested chin... Its just a way more superior style of tested fighting
China has written records from 1500+ years ago (as old as ancient Rome and ancient Greece) and they already were doing martial arts. And western boxing is not a martial art because it doesn't have intellectual and spiritual components.
@ David Hutchinson. You're right. Actually it was his lack of conditioning AND his thick attachment to Wing Chun. After that, he dissected his pre existing art of Wing Chun while adding other elements into his art
Distance is not about controlling the center of the ring... It's about being on your most practical range of motion, your distance is a tool to either be out of your opponent's range while being able to keep landing punches yourself or to make his footwork and power deminish by cutting the distance between your punches and his (if he's a tall person fighting at close range tends to be really akward for example). But there's way more to distance control than just "control the center of the ring".
I've watched many of your videos and really liked your analysis and advice. But what you say here is a bunch of jargon laced garbage. The bottom line is that it isn't Wing Chun vs Boxing at issue, it's a good figther versus a lousy figher. The style has no bearing whatsover. The taller guy was a much better, much more disciplined fighter. The shorter guy lacked discipline, lacked skills and was plain and simply incompotent as a fighter. He also had the advantage of being able to use kicks - hell, he could even have used elbows and kneeds - yet he still got knocked out. Does this mean Boxing is "better" than Wing Chun? Hell no. It means the better fighter wins most of the time. And in this instance, the Wing Chun dummy got made a dummy of
+James Pak Actually I thought that is what I said? The better fighter won, based on the ability to control distance, timing and of course footwork. Attributes that I said defined a fighter regardless of style. This video was not a style vs style analysis rather a skills vs skills. Skills that are simply universal regardless of what martial arts you practice. Perhaps you were to stuck on the title of the video? Anyway, thank you very much for watching. Enjoy your day my friend.
bahahahahaha, right. Let's see now, Randy Couture kicked James Toney's ass in, what, a few seconds? Toney was a world class boxer. Couture a wrestler and an MMA artist. Hmm, using ONLY one's fists to strike when humans have elbows, knees, feet, and can hold, choke, even poke in the eye. Yup, boxing is superior alright. Make sure the next time you get into a street fight that your opponent knows he is "not allowed" to kick, elbow, head butt or punch below the waist. See how that works out for you
james, this is my argument for why its style vs style.. because in the ufc, we have seen that different arts have won against diff arts so.. but when have you seen wing chun winning at the highest level of competition? if wing chun is so good, where's the countless videos of wing chun beating other styles? you can easily find a video to show boxing ko-ing somene, kickboxing ko-ing someone, where's the wing chun?
Zohan The Dizaster That's nothing my friend let me use his meat locker where I punch frozen cow carcasses and break their ribs like a champ yooo Adrian!!, I did it!
another point is. you can practice wing chun become a black sash and never have fought anyone. you cant become a skilled boxer without fighting anyone. my first day of boxing, i sparred with someone. we sparred every class.
redfern playa Traditional martial arts are frowned upon now-a-days. Mostly because of youtube. These young kids believe everything they see on here. And that unfortunately means that if a video claims that its Wing Chun then they believe it is without ever having knowing anything about the real art nor how its supposed to be applied. They see "wing chun" getting beat and say its useless. Just ignorance
Fight Science guy narrating this video, too much apologetics. You sound like a religious person defending his beliefs. Wingchun is ineffective altogether. The slapping techniques simply do not work in a real combat situation.
Yes, what I saw is that when the WC guy would close, strikes were exchanged and then he would back off. He should stay in and press forward if need be, until the fight is finished. Instead he let the boxer be at the range that a boxer loves to be in... Also, the reach on the boxer... Good god! That makes staying inside all the more important.
"dirt" arts? are you referring to the fact krav/jkd have dirty tactics that are banned in mma? tactics that are crucial in a street fight/survival? because if this is what you're saying I'm surprised you're able to attempt to construct a placid yet mildly coherent sentence
Gangstarji Well said, besides, those self defence techniques very rarely work. Trying to kick someone in the balls or poke their eyes is not easy. There are also no special one punch secrets that you only learn in kung fool. The reality is Muay Thai, Judo and Jujitsu will Fuck up those "Reality" practitioners because we actually train by fighting.
i practiced Wing Chung in the past to keep me physically and mentally in shape. I know what this martial art is capable of and anyone believes that you can apply this art in MMA is dillusional.
I took wing chun and philipino martial(escrima) arts for years. Unless someone really goes thru all the forms up to the wooden dummy...it's incomplete. WC is highly conceptual and philosophical also. I love it and have learned alot more than just fighting skills. I'm not a badass at all but the awareness it created and new thought processes are highly valuable. It opened doors to taichi...healing...qigong....meditation/visualization and just overall fulfilling interactions.
No, it doesn't suck, this fight sucked. Not to mention how much more reach and height advantage the other guy had. Also, there is alot of grabs in kung fu, and you can't grab someone with those big gloves on. It works in the street.
A proper hook , upon impact, absolutely is a straight punch, people don't understand the difference between a looping haymaker and a cross/hook. A hook is basically a straight punch ending up at a 90 degree , driving/displacing the head in a straight line sideways.
If that guy is a master then Wing Chun is BS and I wouldn't bother learning it. I do appreciate many aspects of Wing Chun but I don't think its really useful in real fights.
Coming from a LOSER who does muay thai?? Are you serious? Wing chun will DESTROY muay thai in less than one minute, as is proven in this video here: ruclips.net/video/jU8B6eNm2zs/видео.html Notice how EASY it is to beat this clown!!! This guy is a wing chun BEGINNER also! So imagine how easy it is to beat you if the wing chun guy has experience! Muay thai is crap and a total waste of time! It is ineffective in real fights outside and is incomplete, unlike TRADITIONAL wing chun, which is!!
put on some gloves and see if you punch slower. I have boxing gloves collecting dust they say how much they weigh for a reason. ignorance is one thing, stupidity another.
mightymeatmonsta omg if u think wing chun beats muay thai then your deluded. Wing chun is bs, this channel is bs, there's always that one idiot who tries to defend wing chun and that's you.
What's funny is that no matter what discipline you may follow, you all end up resorting to boxing during any confrontation. Why you may ask? Boxing and kickboxing is the essence and basics OF ALL MARTIAL SCIENCES! It's our primal caveman instinct to just throw punches when need be. Our survival instinct to survive and when our adrenaline kicks in we tend to just throw straights and rounds whether they be hooks or uppercuts. So why make it look pretty? Boxing is extremely powerful, to the point and requires less thinking just quick simple reaction combined with your trained reflexes it's enough to get the job done on the streets. So why add to it if it works? No disrespect to other martial sciences but they looking awesome in movies and of late, the only strikes used in the MMA scene. Whether it be boxing or what ever martial art you may follow, each to their own, but why try to make excuses for your martial art failing to boxing. Boxing as a martial science is simple trained basics. The fact that all martial sciences, generally the stand up martial art types, will 90% of the time succumb to boxing. ✌️ NO OFFENSE TO THE AUTHOR OF THIS VIDEO. CHEERS
wing chun sucks and is not effective. it's only effective against other wc fighters who use the same style. LOL. against mma, wing chun ain't shit. i train mma moderately and i bet i could beat up a wc master.
The wing chun guy was clearly an amateur. If he learned, or at least properly learned more of the system. Traditional, not modified, teaches essential things, take for example, the third form, Bil Jee, it is a lot about footwork, the second form, Chum Kiu, it's about balance, the first form, Siu Lim Tao, it's all about structure. The style doesn't really matter. What does is timing and how you train and learn from that.
That's the reason why there's no wing chun in the UFC, Bellator, One Championship, EFC. Because wing chun is so limited, even Bruce Lee said it, that's why he trained in other styles like boxing and wrestling.
wing chun is a deadly martial art. it's meant to destroy. I hate when people watch this and say wing chun sucks. 1st they have gloves on. 2nd the wing chun guy doesn't look to experienced. boxers use gloves. wing chun isn't designed to use gloves, how did you think it was gonna end.
he is using mma gloves. look just find someone who trains mma boxing or anything that has real sparring and go a few rounds with them an see what happens. Every martial arts is useless without sparring
mk star Anything a Wing Chun guy can do when not wearing gloves, an MMA, or hell, pretty much any guy, can also do. Wing Chun guys always give us the same bullshit, about how in Wing Chun, you are supposed to hit them before they know what's going on, and go for the eyes, groin, neck, etc. So basically, Wing Chun teaches you to sucker punch and fight dirty. I got news for you, ANYONE can do that. No one needs training for that.
mk star so how do you prove it works When has a wing chun fighter killed someone. Did the maker study how to kill? He or she would probably be arrested for all the people killed in his or her studies. It’s about efficiently and speedily getting in some hits to alter the outcome of the fight, and in context it has worked You just need to know what you’re doing And normally the only way to do that is by sparring which wing chun normally won’t teach You gotta get out and try to fight, idc if it’s sparring with pads, sparring with gloves, or sparring bare knuckle with a friend at a park and explaining that to the cops. You gotta fight to learn to fight, and you gotta fight against people with drastically different styles. Boxing vs Muay Thai. The boxer loses. You don’t hear a boxer say “boxing as I study it was designed to be used as a gentleman’s way of settling agreements. Those kicks and knees are not something my art allows, my art is still better” The boxer will look at how HE failed, he will improve HIMSELF, and maybe adapt and train with some techniques he saw the other dude use and he becomes a better fighter What some wing chun people like you do is they get into a fight after sparring twice, they lose against a Brazilian Jiujitsu guy. “Of course he wins here because wing chun isn’t designed to be used here but how can he handle 3 guys with swords! CHECKMATE” What he should have done was looked at his loss, took a look at some techniques that he struggled to counter, incorporate them into training, and then actually get some sparring reps in using that
wing chun moving is shit(i think), because of lack of speed. I am training wing chun and that stance on heels is driving me crazy. Its nice for power but i cant move that well like on toes.
I saw only 1 mistake! he studied the wrong art! I respect him for putting his money where his mouth is though! all the mistakes you mentioned are what happens to people when they're ineffective! when you start getting tagged, you panic and start making shit up! guys it's never too late to change to something that woks! I don't know why people are so emotionally invested!
I will throw my two knuckles in the ring for all the knucklehead boxers out there who will inevitably make ignorant comments to prove their cojones. Take the gloves off and boxing fails in the street quickly, and this is the reason why managers will never let their fighters get into fight with a streetfighter The main two reasons are: 1. no big gloves to turtle behind. 2. it's knock out system not a point accumulation system. So a different strategy is required. It is overcommitment of power to finish it quickly, and knuckles are not the weapon of choice. As for supposed Wing Chun master the boxer was mocking him and he deserved it.
Shannon Lodge Boxing fails in the street? Boxing has been used more successfully in the streets than Wing Chun has. More evidence of it being used also.
Go to respected boxing gyms who have trained champions. Offer an open challenge to all boxers. Get the boxers to show us their credentials. Video the fights. Upload it onto RUclips. P.S. I'm not a boxer, although I'm learning boxing right now. I've studied many martial arts and intend to study more. Kung Fu is my favourite so far. However, I am not so ignorant, arrogant or closed-minded to knock other good martial arts.
Go to respected boxing gyms who have trained champions. Offer an open challenge to all boxers. Get the boxers to show us their credentials. Video the fights. Upload it onto RUclips. P.S. I'm not a boxer, although I'm learning boxing right now. I've studied many martial arts and intend to study more. Kung Fu is my favourite so far. However, I am not so ignorant, arrogant or closed-minded to knock other good martial arts.
wing chun is real, I seen a wing chun master who was legitimately super strong, fast, and had programmed wing chun moves so well its automatic yet in full control. However, this weird phenomenon of wing chun trying to be used in sparring is dumb. Its just a super rigid and formulaic way to move instead of just keeping your hands up and being loose. Real wing chun really cant be used for sparring, which I know is a common cop-out, but its tr00. It would have no 'wing chun stance' where you move a step at a time with flat feet, reach out to block punches, and reach out to throw 'chain punches' which are just shitty kung fu styled boxing punches. It would be more like a flurry combination to a single movement, and if that fails, it devolves to the same schoolyard clinch tactics of any untrained person in a fight, if you suck. It would be over in seconds, either win or lose and flailing pussy.
There are a lot of nice and useful techniques in the Wing Chun, which can be useful for boxers. such as liding direct after overlapping of the opponents hands, a hand that slips into a blow after paring, etc... Jeet Kune Do is the best!
The room should be made small by wing chun foot work. Then attack at close quarter because the adversary has no room to move. Punch parallel to the floor and don't head hunt. If you head hunt it make you stand up to reach the opponents head and takes you out of wing chun structure. Most important cut the ring off.
I'm Asian myself and grew up learning Wing Chun myself but seriously, it would lose to boxing anyday or even Wrestling or Jiu Jitsu. Wing Chung has no ground game and it most likely attack to the body. Boxing has a lot of footwork and they box from the outside and all around. Wing Chun don't possess those technique and it fight grounded in one position. If you watch a lot of Wing Chun fight tournament, it wouldn't even compete with Karate, Muay Thai, Jiu Jistsu, Wrestling or Boxing. Wing Chung only looks good against Wing Chun but against MMA you will lose miserably if you have no ground game. Bruce Lee even said it himself that any Chinese martial artist who have train for 20 years would lose to wrestling and boxing who has only train within a year.
That's why Bruce Lee created Jeet Kune Do to fuse Western fighting style with Chinese fighting style, which is all about quick hit to the pressure points with Boxing footwork.
In my eyes the reason why wing tsun creates the false the believe of being bad is because its not made for random fights like these shown here. Its created in war and meant to be lethal and at that as fast as possible.It´s main strength is to kill the opponent or unable them as quick as possible. Breaking arms, blinding eyes with fingers and so on. Is that allowed in a tournament? I bet not... so its simply not meant for these fights. Some basic techniques are grab+holding hands and breaking them in the same motion. Also not viable in fun-fights....
To me it's it's all about individual, never about the style or how hard you train some people are just simply good at fighting or any other thing and some are not, the one born for the purpose is greater than the one who tries to achieve it, some men are natural born warriors.
So this "master" wing chun vs a random boxer. The master lost. Does this not tell you everything you need to know? That wing chun is inferior in a real fight. The wing chun here couldn't hold the centre, because if the boxer pushes forward with aggression, his style can't handle the power of the hits, so the boxer controls it because of his advantage right away. The boxer does not fear the wing chun counter because it's the equivalent to a jab. The wing chun however got knocked down by the boxing counter. How confident will you be to throw a punch, when a boxer is trained to fire back and hits harder? Hence he becomes timid. Boxers learn timing, even amateurs, so it's not that the wing chun had bad timing, it's that the boxer uses this to counter. Bottom line, what would wing chun have to do to win? I'm not sure. KO power isn't there against a moving target. You can't swarm a guy that is composed and waiting for an opening to rip a big right or tight hook that will floor you. There's many ways the boxer wins, however the wing chun? I can't see a clear line they can use. BJJ + Judo you can at least make the case that if they can take a hit or two and get in close they have a chance to keep it there and win through technique outside striking. Muay Thai you can argue has good enough power leg kicks to disrupt a boxer. Wing chun? You might as well be slapping a buffalo expecting to win.
The Cardboard Lord He's bad because he lost. However nobody can show me someone good at wing chun when faced vs what's regarded as a real combat art. We have had Muay Thai people occasionally dominate combat sports, Kickboxing stood up for a good time, boxing clearly had a huge advantage over wing chun purely because your training for a fight that will actually happen. Not just a silly spar with no meaning. This man was a master and all would look the same. There is a reason why people don't use this in real MMA fighting. The same as I said above is true, wing chun isn't used in MMA because it was disregarded, people likely tried to use it and found no practical application and it went extinct. Boxing, BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo etc all had elements that's you could use or even set a foundation from, Muay Thai just isn't practical.
I think it takes years to be truly considered "good enough in a street fight" for wing chun, because that's how long it takes to get through the 3 basic forms. I love that you said muay thai wasn't practical. I don't like the amount of amatuer wing chun practitioners on RUclips though. This somewhat reminds me of all of those "bs martial art master" videos. Those are quite funny.
The Cardboard Lord I said Muay Thai had practical uses and some things can be learned from. Wing Chun I just see as a weak art, against a boxer or other art it suffers from not having enough power. The real problem with arts like these is that since the 80's and 90's there has been a huge surge in martial arts due to movies. Many kids go, adults practice etc. The world is not short of martial arts practitioners both skilled and not. However if you have been in and around or witnessed or even watched online, real fights or street fights - or videos of for instance a boxer and wing chun. We don't see the ancient martial arts being used and when tried failed on every occasion I can think of. This isn't random chance that every practitioner is bad. The problem is that a wing chun man (one my friends who I did a similar spar with to this video - boxing vs wing chun) suffers from a total lack of power and not great movement. Chin is too open and exposed for angle shots, so if I hook left and step left and follow up, it opens up the wing chun the same as a boxer - however in boxing you train for this with position of lead foot etc --- wing chun lacks this also. Boxers train to knock you out, and the difference is they get tested. Fight someone full of adrenaline and means to hurt you, who has a little experience and you will realise the wing chun slaps although seem powerful in the dojo and feel good. Don't work. Solid punching and aggression does.
Of course Muay Thai has practical uses, pretty much all styles do. *but it's still kinda funny you said that.* So how long has your friend been doing wing chun and is it modified or traditional. I don't really wanna argue too much though since I'm semi tired and people can be stubborn, myself included.
This is ONE toxic corner of the internet! Man guys I think I need to get antibiotics when I want to stay longer here. @Mr Fight SCIENCE: Good job detailing those points. A lot of the people of the internet don't realize the worth of the content you are providing!
The wing chun guy was tiny and the boxer was quite tall. He easily had a 6 inch reach advantage that meant he could often punch the wing chun guy with impunity.
the most powerful puncher are the boxers, they are trained to punch fast and accurate and not to mention powerful punch which is twice the weight of the boxer, wing chun can parry punches of a boxer but the thing is the weight of the power which the boxer releases when punching, i suggest the wing chun guy should avoid punch rather the parrying them and then counter with the wing chun punch when you have an opening.
you cannot expect to control the centerline from the outside if the other guy is that much bigger. you have to hit hard enough to stop your opponent, or at least interrupt his movement. you can't use wing chun with your hands down. you control the center gate, OR the left gate, OR the right gate. each can give you opportunity to hit without being hit, but the center gate is the hardest to use, particularly when your opponent has longer reach. Wing chun needs bagua circle walk to complete it.
No matter what art you're studying, when fighting a boxer don't drop your guard and lean your face into his lead hand! Even some with no training know better instinctively.
You can say that the Win chun guy didnt represent the martial art, As a 4 year amateur boxer i can tell you that the boxer having his arms down 90% of the fight and messing up his basic stance by crossing his legs doesnt represent most boxers either.
the term sifu and master are often used wrongly, two fighters of equal weight age height and skill level should be used in any kind of test to prove that one style is superior to another, my experience has been that an open mind and the flexibility to admit that certain moves from other styles may be superior to your own will make you a better fighter
In my humble opinion this had less to do with the martial arts and more to do with the type of fighters. I know nothing of WC, but have liked boxing for a while, so from my perspective: the WC guy doesn't fight as if you would against a taller opponent - you need a lot of fakes to cover up your movement, you need to get past the guard by throwing punches from off-angles and even just punching their hands out of the way sometimes and if allowed, you have to mix in punches to the body: it's closer to you and he'll have to defend more targets. Meanwhile, while not masterful, the taller boxer is doing what would be expected - he's keeping the distance with footwork, using straight punches and throwing power and pivoting away if it gets too close. Also, notice, he was keeping an eye on the ever-changing stance of the WC guy - he used the basic strategies for fighting a southpaw or orthodox depending on how the WC guy engaged... I'm not even sure the WC guy was aware of his own ever-changing stance. Conditioning might have something to do with it - they both ate a few punches, but the WC guy looked wobbly just before he went down, in fact that last "combo" didn't really make sense for any martial art - he threw a jab from orthodox, switch-stepped and tried to throw a jab from southpaw, but got caught with the right hand counter... not only did he make himself the perfect target for that moment, but he wasn't gaining anything from it, strategically.
Sifu can you do a live fight and show us right I never see any videos of showing the right way to apply it's always pointing out what some1 else did wrong
![Wing Chun vs Anyone ● Old School Wing Chun Fighting Format 1989 [Fight Science Breakdown]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s3xTxyb58j4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Wing Chun vs Anyone ● Old School Wing Chun Fighting Format 1989 [Fight Science Breakdown]](/img/tr.png)
![Chinese Martial Arts FAILS Again... Why Does This Happen? [Kung Fu vs MMA]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w1aDTFeCl-w/mqdefault.jpg)
What I've noticed with with a lot of these Wing Chun 'experts' is once there is any semblance of a semi-real, anything goes fight against other styles, most of their Wing Chun footwork and stance goes, and minus perhaps their signature chain punches, they fight increasingly like (messy) boxers/kickboxers/streetfighters/brawlers.
I met one at a young center. I got my ass handed to me, and the sifu was not even putting in effort. I only trained in muay thai and wrestling for a year, so my skills are average at best. But I seen my friend who trained muay thai for 10 plus years, have difficulty against the wing chun sifu. The sifu does indeed charge for his classes.
Smooth Bee
I agree. They always claim to be of a certain style but it always devolves into bad kickboxing or MMA. I could claim my style as shio jiang fu or whatever and I could make all these pretty movements in the air but if you but some boxing or MMA gloves me and have me spar, I'm going to revert to boxing or kickboxing. If we end up in the clinch it's going to look like wrestling or BJJ. It's not because I chose to but because physics makes all the other crap impossible.
Any martial art that isn't Muay Thai/Kickboxing/Boxing ends up looking like sloppy kickboxing/sloppy crappling due to not sparring effectively.
+Cole Cuntingham Exactly. Any traditional system coming from China is bullshit made to take away gullible people's money. It's literally only that.
Bee Nice yes for real it's true, it's why human fighting is the way human fighting simply is, once the opponent is continuously moving, most of them fail to reach the opponents, then they have to do boxing instead...honestly people who use wing chun to win is moving and defending the way a boxer would do, which is supposed to be like that or they become a punching bag for the opponent...
I mainly rely on boxing but I use wing tsun too to add variety to my fighting style. It's good to have a variety of options because fights can get messy.
It's all boils down to the basic foundation of every martial arts. It all begins with proper stances. Without proper stances one cannot achieve proper footwork. Without proper footwork, there's no proper distance. And without proper distance there can never be the proper timing. You remove the foundation of your art then you remove its essence. You remove its essence then you remove its effectiveness.
Right. This is EXTREMELY important in wing chun especially since wing chun is set up to use redirection and not force on force like other systems do.
And also the fact the boxer is a heads span taller
Well that has nothing to do with it. He should be able to make contact and close the distance. Staying far away gives the advantage to the tall guy not the short guy. He also dropped his hands.
Yeah except when you get attacked you wont BE in a proper stance, you will he just standing or sitting . If you cant explode with a couple of decisive strikes out of stance then its not really martial arts .
@@mightymeatmonsta redirection is a massive myth. I heard that so many times over the years across a handful of martial arts, but really it came down to boring old what you would expect, using your force against them, not the other way around. The exemption is striking somebody as they step forward onto your punch . Redirection, oh please.
Bruce Lee found this out long time ago, a brazilian jkd instructor showed this in one of his videos; that when a wing chun practitioner does a straight blast, they are vulnerable from being hit with an overhand, a boxer can simply step out and do an overhand punch.
+Rommel Cruz Sager that's why you never do a straight blast for real. It's too predictable. Only inexperienced Sifus teach this approach to real fighting. The problem is not the art but the approach to training it.
+Fight SCIENCE Why did this vid imply boxers don`t ever use straight punches? Bad boxers throw haymakers. Along with hooks jabs and straight rear hand punches are thrown plus Ali was the master at controlling distance so what was wing chun meant to bring to the table?
Right, which is why it doesn't work on anyone but the extremely inexperienced! You don't do chain punching unless you make contact FIRST, close the distance PROPERLY (using an angled step and body rotation towards the attack to move away from the attack and close the distance), and trap the arm and leg (hopefully). THEN you can use chain punching properly.
like Bruce said, this is easy to do against a dummy or punching bag, but your partner move! He is moving constantly and will certainly not let you get inside your comfo distance that easy. in here, you see that the boxer have a clear advantage of lengh and the only chance the sifu have is to close the distance fast and get inside range, which, of course the boxer try and succeed at making him miss. WC was created to fight close range, not sidestepping around a boxer.
Rommel Cruz Sager boxers cant throw overhands correctly
So wing chun has to adapt to the modern and effective fighting style by adding in footwork, timing and distancing, right? I am not saying that it is not a good thing to do so, but at the end of the day when you incorporate those things to make your wing chun effective you will realize that you are fighting in the exact same Boxing way - So why don't just start off with Boxing then to save all those unnecessary "journey" lol. You are just re-inventing the wheel!
to go in the ring, yes. full contact kung fu basically evolved into san da/san shou.
No, it already HAS that in the traditional form. It is also COMPLETE in the traditional form, and is INCOMPLETE in the modified system. This is why you have to learn the complete traditional system, which has all the aspects needed, like grappling, stand up, weapons, and multiple opponent training, which is missing in any sports-oriented martial arts and in modified wc also.
No, because traditional wing chun is soft/hard system and runs on concepts, and has no initial flaws, and boxing is a hard system, runs on techniques, and is extremely flawed!! To improve your wing chun, you must learn the wing chun footwork (the circle inside the triangle), which includes the angled step to the outside of the attacking arm, and the body rotation towards the attack, to see it coming , and also pull you away for the attack as well. It is far superior to boxing!
@ikcjjt Garbage systems! TWC is much, much better and made for the real streets!!
@ikcjjt but in order to do that, you would have to study wing chun. You can't mix it if you haven't learned it, bro.
I studied Wing Chun, and I can tell the King Fu guy abandoned all footwork.
He made the mistake many kung fu practitioners make, their footwork fails and they try to match the opponent.
He also tries to attack head on, completely forgetting the 45 degree 📐 angles of attack.
The largest factor seems to be the style of training. You can master all forms and techniques within any given style but without training your arts application within sparing, matches or street fights, its next to impossible to contend with a seasoned fighter. Boxing gyms have a huge focus on matches and sparring, distance and reflex is drilled into a boxer but not all schools/dojos have the same focus.
Fast forward to 1:40 if you want to skip the author speaking without actually conveying any message. "The right move at the wrong time, is the wrong move." Very astute observation. Does this also mean the right answer is actually the wrong answer, if applied at the wrong question/problem? Who would've ever guessed that, absolutely brilliant thinking my man!
This man has it correct, distance, timing, and foot work, and accuracy are essential to winning a fight. Too bad wc does not teach you any of the above.
Okay I train WC. Every time I see someone fight online using WC all they do is try to chain punch. His footwork was off, His balance was off, His center was off, His pressure was off, ect. Why does no one use gan sao? Notice a lot of people because they train this way do one move then stop and pose. Instead of reacting to next move or just continuing in to finish. Now I do the same thing from time to time from repetition. But looks like a bunch of posing positions than actual technique. People need to train for reality! When you train punch with real intent or you will learn absolutely nothing.
You have a phone with a camera right? Put on some gloves on and spar someone, upload and show us how many gan sao you can do in that fight. If you train for reality this should not be hard
One important key factor not mentioned in this video, is the fact the boxer has a very long reach advantage with his lead hand.
He pretty much used his jab as both a measuring tool as well as a way to stop the Wing Chun guy's forward momentum the whole fight.
Trying to rush forward against a tall, experienced boxer with good footwork is a sure way to constantly get countered too.
The main reason the Wing Chun guy got KO'd at 2:31 is due to the fact he rushed forward with a lazy punch, leaving his chin exposed, and also the fact he became predictable with the same approach a few times before, creating a perfect reading signal for the boxer to "feel" and eventually capitalize on that opening.
They say against a tall-boxer-puncher, you should cut off the ring on them.
In this case though, I feel strongly that the boxer is just too experienced.
It would take many years of learning proper boxing technique, with lots and lots of sparring to be able to do that.
A few weeks would not cut it.
Peter Liakakos I say you are mostly correct. however, in your own statement you still boil it down to proper application of technique/ strategy. in my opinion, it was a very bad strategy. his height is not the issue, as a good fighter would easily neutralize that strength and even turn it into a weekness
True.
A good smaller fighter who knows how to correctly "cut off the ring" on the taller boxer, while being defensively responsible enough not to get countered in the process is what will work.
they like to advertise wing chun as an art that is for the smaller person to defeat the bigger person.. hope they realize that its all bullshit now.. most of the time, the bigger will always defeat the smaller..
Even a skilled smaller fighter can have problems against an equally skilled taller fighter.
Sometimes it boils down to situation, whoever has the right mindset during that particular day or night, and of course will power/psychology/emotions/fitness/timing/etc
Wing-chun is made for the trapping range. Trapping range lets you utilize all your tools for example: knees, elbows puches and kicks. Boxing range just lets you use punches and kicks and kicking range just allows kicks. These are facts. Being able to stay in a certain range you fight well in or being able to switch between them is a skill every fighter will need. The boxer in this video stayed in boxing range and made he wing-chun "master" stay out of his preffered range hence the boxer won this "fight". The only difference is that wing-chun is made for the street once boxers get in trapping range they clinch(grappling range) until the fight gets restarted by the refferee. MMA/UFC is a good example for fighting in all the ranges and shows us you must be comfortable in all ranges to win. BUT in a street fight most of the times someone doesnt want to fight and just wants to go home and live his life. Maybe they can't show bruses on their work or they just generally don't want to fight. In MMA, boxing or this "fight" they wanted to fight eachother. In a real fight if one doesnt want to fight the other will close the gap from boxing to trapping range .Since you can probably run away from kicking range and kicks make you fall easily most of the attacks will be wild punches from boxing to trapping range. Wing-chun intercepts in this moment with a faster punch structured so that it allows force from the opponent to go into the ground. Any force from the opponent that is not aimed towards your own center will not be faught against to use less energy. By shifting your body weight into a punch, having good structure, protecting your vitals, having faster reactions due to chi sao and not using as much energy you can see why it makes the game more even for smaller, weaker practitioners. BUT only with not kidding yourself, realistic practice and control over distance and timing wing chun will work for you on the street. one year of training cannot by definition make you better than a boxer whos trained one year in his sport, cause they might train more realistic and develop better timing and distance control. Fighting is al relative it's the fighter his opponent and everything else that can dictate the outcome.
I'm a grappler (BJJ) so I don't really favor one style over the other which makes me a bit more objective. I don't all that much about Wing Chun but it seems like this video is a very unfair portrayal of WC. The boxer is just so much taller and also seems a lot more experienced in fighting as well as tougher! This might sounds weird coming from a BJJ guy but all those constant comparisons of different fighting leads us absolutely nowhere! If you're naturally a good boxer than do boxing, if you're a WC-guy do that instead, if you're a grappler do Judo or BJJ or wrestling! An athletic individual that can do any of those arts is going to be able to defend themselves to a certain extent against a guy, and that's really all you can hope for realistically!!
WC makes the claim that it is effective against much bigger opponents. Pound per pound boxers hit much harder than than most of not all the martial arts. I agree with your observation that the WC guy was at a disadvantage using gloves because he couldn't grapple and trap. That being said boxers counter punch much more effectively and are not limited to straight line punching. Also boxers are taught to circle while WC tends to walk in a straight line through their opponents. Also the WC was following boxing rules and was not able to use his feet to enter the Boxers space or use low kicks... this is not a good example of either discipline. The WC was clearly at a disadvantage if this was a street fight the outcome might have been very different
The Background of this fight...The WC teacher (yes he ran a school) challenged the Boxer who was the Hong Kong Amateur Boxing Champion to a bout after he made comments about how the WC system will defeat Boxing etc and boxers were skeptical. In a separate fight at the same place, a WC student who disparaged karate on a blog was also knocked out by a karate guy who challenged him. The WC master here picked his opponent and said size and reach didn't matter....
I think someone who has no real fighting experience whether this be against other styles of martial arts or within his own style, this is a flaw in their training principle..
wing chun or tsun has a fatal floor.. that is it doesn't work and when you get a pissing contest between 2 martial arts and the only why both boxing and karate beat wing chun in this case is neither the student nor master have combat skill and once you get the shit knocked out of you, find how practically useless your martial arts is when you never compete against the same style or another style in this case..
this video shows you the wing chun master is full of bullshit and can't fight out of a wet paper bag no matter of qualification the master has..
sometimes bragging that you are better sometimes lands you knee deep in shit because you aren't a fighter to begin with and it shows when you hit the deck due to a TKO
Sad to say it pays no to run your mouth up at a fighter with in ring experience vs someone that doesn't no matter the sill you have in teaching if you NO EXPERIENCE IN THE RING you are going to get the shit knocked out of you everytime you fight because you aren't a fighter to begin with and you end up loosing your student base because you ran your mouth and lost not once but twice, though in this situation i think we can safely say several times..
Pointless doing a pissing contest calling out other martial arts systems when you can't fight worth a damn.. and your actions cause disharmony in the martial arts community as you end up putting the style into disrepute due to your own incompetency...
best not to brag when you can't exactly fight yourself..
A straight punch may work if you land a hit, though looking at the reach advantage the boxer you were never going to WIN the fight to begin with because the other fighter had
A. reach advantage
B. had more combat experience than you..
C. running mouth Claiming you're better when you have no proof
D. you are not spreading what is best about your martial arts when you openly challenge people only to find out how useless of a fighter you really are and disrespect whatever the teaching you received because you can not fight when you challenge someone..
don't let your dick do the talking because you are going to loose everytime you issue a challenge
Unfair advantage ?You have to be ready to defend yourself regardless of size weight speed or strength in the streets you don't get to choose .SHIT happens and you have to be aware of your surroundings.
You being in BJJ should know size and height mean absolutely nothing. Fighting a taller guy you close the distance, shorter guy jab or leg to keep him off. Experience and practice show you how to measure up with each.
I love this...I have been training for years in Wing Chun and try to improve my techniques with whomever but....l hate when people or instructors try to prove their art is more effective than other art...I train to fight, protect my family...friends...maybe a citizen...not put down boxing...mma...jujitsu..
karate...Thai...or any training style. No ONE style is better than all others...it's your training that better prepares you for an ambush or attack. No disrespect but all this nonsense is based on getting more students and money...the problem with martial artist...we all THINK we can kick someone else's ass...Until...✊💥👊😪
dude if a good boxer fight you you will get smashed , wing chun isnt efective its only made for big screen xD
Zebrak Ying Well you're probably right. Cause I don't box...but my survival skills are what l try to improve every day. My Chun is effective, I know, my Thai, and judo are also. But that has nothing with why people think one fighter can beat another just off of paper. It's still the person and their skill set....you must be young. No offense to young people...I'm not concerned whether a boxer can beat me...more concerned about getting home safe.
vrcdragan : well I can't spar you to see if what you say is correct...sooooo I guess all this keyboard sparring is useless. Hope what you do protects you and your family, mine does and have...my useless wing chun that is. Have a great week.
vrcdragan... great chatting with you sir. I am an officer and in my 50s. I have been training for over 35yrs...I have trained and sparred with my Chun with other disciplines. Saved me from street conflicts countless times. I learned how to apply the principles of wing chun in my attacks and defense. Not all techniques work in real time but most do. Throw in some other training just in case I end up in something chun doesn't work well. I love the art of fighting and survival...doing WHATEVER you have to do to live, not to look flashy or to say my art is better than another cause that is not true. Thanks for your words and have a great week. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
that's bollocks, dude. a proficient WC practitioner would have a good chance IMO. You just probably have never seen any real wing chun being used. these sorts of martial arts take decades to master at 1 lesson a week and even then it is nothing like a true master using it.
You only have to look at shaolin monks to really understand real kung fu and proper training regiments.
pressure points, eye gouges, nut shots. how is boxer going to defend from a kick straight to the nuts? they don't even train to defend against bellow the belt blows.
and for the record I don't train in wing chun, I train in 7 star mantis boxing. a 7 star mantis adept is fucking lethal though, it's the original mixed martial art. They can rip your throat out with their bare hands. the arm lock techniques are perfect against someone throwing straight jabs.
I do agree however boxing is great to learn something fast that works. Sambo is also sick. I want to do some Muay Thai as well at some point, but need to get my fitness back up as I'm getting pretty old now.
I think MMA gives people a bad impression of what real kung fu can do as so much of it is simply not possible in MMA.
I also box (western) I did judo and free style karate when I was a kid as well.
at the end of the day though my friend, it;s more down to the fighter than the style in my honest and humble opinion. No style is better, you just have better fighters,.
I mean the boxer is about a feet taller and has a longer reach. Would be interested in seeing two similarly built fighters with different styles.
Even that psycho Charlie Zelenov could beat any wing chun masters.
Hahahha
agentofchaos1 damn that guy is nuts. His eyes are lost.
agentofchaos1 You too
to be fair charlie z is the goat and beats literally everyone he fights i mean he mollywopped deontay wilder
So he can beat Bruce Lee
It has not much time since I subscribed to this channel, but I've been learning a lot here, that is not only teaching me how to be a better martial arts practitioner, but also to act and be more masculine.
This video illustrates the point of range: Wing Chun fighters need to get in to be effective and stay in rather than in and out. A boxer is further away and can comfortably pick you off with little effort as we saw but that's not to say that boxers are not comfortable at hooking and uppercut range.
Nick Holbrook Or mabe its just the size not the ma
They need to remove the rules like no elbows, no kicks, no close range leg locks, no hand gripping (wearing boxing gloves). Being an art of control, Wingchun is so useless when u implement rules that limits its potential.
@@sc9433 well the groin strike eye gouged and throat strike from WC could over power a boxer.
"There are universal principles of fighting", thank you very much for saying this.
Time after time , I see WingChun fighters make the same mistake, they advance and retreat. Wing Chun is effective at close range so retreating makes no sense .
It is NOT meant for and should never be used to spar at the arms length range. At that range, you kick his balls / knee caps / toes with a low straight front kick . This 'master' deserved what he got.
Raj Ray the best coment of all.i think exactly the same.
So a WC master doesn't even know what range he effective at in a fight? Also if close range is where WC is so good then why dont we ever see a video of someone using WC to actually win a fight against a boxer who is also operating at the same range? Hell why don't we ever see a WC person win ANY kind of striking fight or street fight, all striking fights spent time in this range at some point or another.
@@driver3899 watch Qi Lala against a kickboxer, he only does Wing Chun but trains like a boxer or kickboxer, this will help the question: "Hell why don't we ever see a WC person win ANY kind of striking fight or street fight..." have an amazing day.
@@efrainderuyck6181 Thanks, you have a great day too Efrain
@@driver3899 I see you might have seen the fight, if you want I can also show you a video of a WC guy against a karate practicioner in a karate school but maybe you have already seen it and the WC guy is good but not Qi Lala level so yeah your choice.(and I think even another one)Unless you think it's not needed than God bless you and have an amazing day.
Wing Chun couldn't be used in an actual street fight in terms of getting into the stance etc, as you wouldn't have time, people would find it odd. However..during your scuffle, certain blocks/counter-attacks can be utilised if used correctly, they can work, so it is good for straight-on close-quarters, but only briefly/subtly, and incorporated into your scuffle....Most guys these days all think they're boxers, so they're really predictable getting into a boxing stance and dancing over to you, they don't think of kicking, just trying to go for the knock-out, or grab u and throw you about. Real fights are animal-instinct, lip-pulling, eye-gouging etc, and if you can get them manoeuvres in, even boxing goes out of the window in the real world....
Agree...you should watch some James demile videos. He says basically the sane thing.
He was one of Bruce's first student and a boxer.
WC does not teach distance control.. most schools only teach you chi sao.. thats why it fails.. distance control is the basics in boxing/kickboxing/mma. .thats why these styles win wc ALL THE TIME.. im sure sometimes a wing chun guy can beat a boxer.. but usuallty it doenst look like wc at all..
+CombatFitness actually I would agree and yet disagree to a point. There are long range strategies in Wing Chun. You only have to look at the weapons forms and methods of training to understand the control of distance exists in Wing Chun. In fact, it is key to control distance when fighting with weapons generally. Perhaps the point you hit on is more the method of training. Agreed many Wing Chun schools (not all) focus primarily on Chi Sao which is often static in location. In my opinion, this is lazy training, but understandable when you are teaching middle aged people. The problem is in the approach to training to fight not the martial art. Thanks for watching. Have a great day.
then how come a master of wing chun was unable to demonstate the range and distance control in this video? anybody can be a master in wing chun now adays? and also why practice chi sao if you're not going to use it.. i didnt see the wing chun master do any hand trapping in this video.. notice how in wing chun you trap a hand and counter, and then they teach you multiple ways to do it, yet when the fight starts it disappears.. do you know that even bruce lee later on in his years moved away from trapping cause he realized it was kinda useless.. i mean using it as a principal is fine, but for it to be a drill in wing chun is stupid and a waste of time. how you fight is how you train. if in traning you end up doing these hand trapping stuff, and in your fight you cant even pull it off, its better to disregard it
CombatFitness I'm not experienced in Wing Chun, but I have a kung fu brother who swears by trapping and uses it all the time in fights. he says, and I'd agree, that it's all about proper training. Wing Chun wouldn't make such a big deal out of it if it wasn't effective. Bruce may have just decided his time was better spent on training something else; that's just personal preference, not a measure of effectiveness. How long did Bruce study Wing Chun, anyway? just a few years, right?
bruce lee was all about doing what worked and discarding what didnt.. during the first ufc event, wing chun masters also took part.. so far 2 of them took part in it and got demolished in the first round.. there was also jason deluca who was a shaolin animal stylist.. he got beaten up easily and then he discarded shaolin. and here are some of the reason why ' MULTIPLE trapping' doesnt work. please listen and tell me whether you agree. 1) to trap a punch means you are able to predict the punch that is coming. in boxing/kickboxing/mma, one may throw a jab and yes that is easy to trap(pak sao) and counter.. but then once the boxer fakes the jab and throws the left hook , it gets hard to trap already. because every move is done in a split second. what you thought was a jab to parry ended being a hook.. and to stop a hook, you have to move your hand in an outward direction.. while to stop the jab, its more of an inward direction. 2) wing chun teaches you to parry the right cross, there is no high guard in wing chun or blocking.. its more of deflecting the force away from you. when you aim to parry the straight right, it might end up as a hooping punch. and trust me, boxers are able to be very deceptive with these motions.. 3) boxers who throw jabs to the body and then feinting it as a left hook up at your face will confuse the fuck out of any wing chun guy.. because now if you drop your hands to parry that body jab, then the boxer can land his right hand on your face.. but if you block the body jab using your elbows, you'll realise that you're essentially doing a basic boxing guard, which is not taught in wing chun. 4) punches fly out so fast that there is too little time to trap. the whole point of trapping is to trap and counter.. but how are you going to trap if you dont know the intention of the boxer.. is he going to body jab me? or is he going to punch me up high? what if he hits high then low? or low then high? or will it be low and low? that is why trapping is useless. FIGHT SCIENCE, i would like you to respond to this as well..
Again, I'm not that familiar with Wing Chun, but the guy I train with has about 45 years of training and fighting and he loves to trap. He also has experience in several martial arts, so I can't tell you whether outer not he is using "pure" Wing Chun. Also, much of his experience comes from JKD.
You don't have time to think in a fight, that is what proper training is all about. Ask a Navy SEAL. Or some other professional fighter. It is likely they will say the same thing. So "predicting" what your opponent is going to do will almost never work.
You know, our Fight Science sifu (with respect, sir), has some awesome videos on the subject around here somewhere...
distance control footwork & timing applies to all fighting art I think. Your point is solid sir
locking in to the linear center line can't work with out options of angled retreat and attack. I have faced this. And in every martial art, there are holes you can either benefit or fall into.
I wouldn't call that a wing chun master, he doesn't use the Wing Chun footwork.
That boxer has no respect for that guy (rightfully so) because he's a BOXER who not even keep his hands up, that's just how little he thinks of the guy, confirmed later @2:04.
This vid is less about boxing vs wing chun and more about who would win; a tall guy or a shorter guy.
If the short guy was the boxer and the tall guy the wing chun guy the short guy would've won
hands down is his style
You are right. He is modified and does not know the proper footwork. No, it's about how wing chun DOES NOT WORK in its modified form(except for Wong Shun Leung's system, which does!)! It only works in the traditional form, with the complete footwork, angled step and body rotation towards the attack.
No, it's about an incomplete modified system that sucks and not the traditional system, which is complete! A TWC guy would DESTROY any boxer, muay thai clown, karate guy, jiu jitsu idiot, or any other boxing derivative because it has all the elements needed for the streets and boxing derivatives do not!!!
@@mightymeatmonsta yeah ok 👌 It seems that you have completely missed the point of the video. Do yourself a favor and keep posting your dumbass comments on the internet. It makes it easier for those of us who know amd understand the fundamentals and principles he speaks about in this video to spot a poser who doesn't know shit from apple butter, and only thinks he can fight. Be well.
Not for nothing Sifu- but it seems odd to me that there's a sort of alienation between boxers and WC. This is the wrong approach completely, I say they should be natural brothers not feuding neighbors. A boxer can take anything from WC that he finds helpful or useful, likewise a WC man can improve by picking up whatever boxing he can use. Why limit ourselves? I will not rule out any technique in a real street fight. Boxing is very instinctive, lots of gross (large muscle) motor movements and is proven effective in many situations. WC is very efficient, is a great starting point and absorbs other arts well. At the very advanced levels WC works, I have seen it. I've heard of one Sifu that likes to mix his WC with Pak Mei, if he has to use it that will be a very short fight guaranteed.
Wrong! You do not want to mix wing chun with any crappy, second-rate system! It ruins the wing chun! You want to learn the WHOLE TRADITIONAL SYSTEM, WHICH IS COMPLETE! Then you don't have to mix it with any other system because it is the best system out there.
if you do some research there's a undefeated miltary boxer who is now a wing chun master and studied under bruce lee. wong shun leung bruce less wing chun teacher was a undefeated fighter in hong kong he started out as a boxer then he learned wing chun. boxers learn wing chun not the other way around. i have not heard of have wing chun masters switch and start teaching boxing. i'm not saying there's nothing learn from boxing. the one thing i willl give boxing is footwork as wsl probably put in boxing footwork . but statements like mix it up implies the art is lacking in some area when it simply isn't. wing chun is a complete fighting system.
Why do people keep saying that??? Boxing uses LINEAR movement for the most part, which sucks!! Come on now, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY GET HIT SO MUCH??? Use your damn head! CORRECT! It is a complete system in it's traditional form! Hey Jet, how is Spike, Faye, Edward and Ein?
I'm not trolling. All the information is correct and has been thoroughly researched over time. It comes from masters, sifus and grandmasters with many years, sometimes decades, of experience.
Sorry, i disagree. You cannot add ANYTHING to wing chun. It destroys the wing chun and makes it even crappier, stiff and rigid and limits it's responses to an attack!
I like you a lot sifu ( sub'd because of your fair and honest approach which is a rarity among tradtional style instructors today )....because you dont sugar coat the fact that some things just are gonna have a different outcome, especially in mixed style match ups. Id like to also add my humble opinion to your reasons list if I may. This comes from former experience in Jeet Kune Do which, as you may well know has origins in Wing Chun & Western Boxing techniques ( especially the early Jun Fan Gung Fu ). My reasons combine scientific theory with traditional reasons from the Wing Chun system ( apologies for LONG POST INCOMING in advance :
1. The boxer was a lot bigger than the instructor which also means a superior reach as well as weight. In a fight where strikes are concerned even a system weak to another systems attack, this can be offset by the size of the person using the "weaker" technique at the moment. No disrespect to sifu Moore in this video and while he DOES show proper technique and knowledge, watch as he using the same theory in essence of center punching vs round style attacks, he easily bowls over this karate black belt. He is able to do this not so much due to technique, but because of his size and weight which constitutes to a larger person pushing forward with more mass : ruclips.net/video/PhnnRYK9JNc/видео.html
2. Limiting of techniques : As above with the smaller person being at a disadvantage due to wearing gloves and size / weight ( this is why there are weight classes in combat sports for that very reason ) the sifu was limiting because of the test he was attempting and could not, trap, lock, sweep and especially KICK. Wing Chun is known for having distracting low kicks to set up the legendary hand speed with punches. In addition the boxer was wearing slip on foot wraps which leads me to believe he has experience with and / or against kicking techniques below the waist.
2. ( con't ) :This is apparent when a kick is attempted and the boxer "takes" it on the thigh. He "bucks" his thigh INTO the kick to check it. Sometimes called a half check as we used to call it in kickboxing. you raise the foot of the checking leg, but not off the ground and it nullifies a lot of the power of the incoming kick. You wouldnt always want to check low kicks this way, but the boxer kept the sifu off balance enough like this and dissuaded such attacks.
3. Stamina : Boxers usually have a strict diet, do LOTS of cardio, and do a ton of conditioning exercises.They are taught to "keep moving forward" even when in PAIN or losing. These are all qualities to win a fight which, let's be honest has well over the amount of rounds an AVERAGE person would be winded even martial artists. Id also like to point out that Bruce Lee who as we know started in Wing Chun and mastered its three forms in THREE nights ( a natural master ) said that he preferred the physical fitness of boxing styles over much more traditional training for such fitness. Remember boxing wasnt always a sport with so many rules either.
3. ( con't ) : Ancient Greeks would take two guys with crude cloth or leather wrappings and then two more men would grab two staves and "box" them in by putting the staves around them and keeping them in this primitive mobile cage until one of the two boxers ko'd the other one. Fighters were often crippled with blunt force trauma to the head for life or worse, killed by being punched to death. Boxing matches, even in the later centuries in the 1800's often showed the fighters headbutting, pulling hair, and even stomping on downed opponents much like the early UFC fights back in the 1990's! This is why the Marquis of Queensberry rules were introduced in the late 1800's and didn't even come to the US into the 1870's.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_Rules
4. Contact : Once again most traditional martial artist's rarely do FULL contact sparring while boxers rarely do the opposite ( light contact sparring ). This can clearly be scene by the times the sifu DOES score some hits and the boxer seems unfazed by them ( in addition to the above reasons ).
Once again great breakdown video and sorry for the ton of text! I tried to make it easy on the eyes with paragraphs.
i dare you to fight a professional boxer (who's your same hight and weight class) and beat him to prove your point
there is a bunch of good boxers on youtube just talk to one of them and back up everything you say
+Adam zoabi who's this aimed at? I'm confused. Did you watch the end of the video?
what I'm trying to say is
you look like a pretty good "Wing Chun" master, and I like the content that you provide.
that said, I don't think this style of fighting would beat boxing (under boxing rules).
if you think otherwise then just prove me wrong and fight a skilled boxer (within your weight class) and beat him
what i meant is in a fists only fight
i knew some smartass was gonna say that lol
Let's face it. Wing Chun has a lot of elements in it which were only made up for entertaining purposes while boxing is focused on effectiveness in a fist fight. Thus I think that the boxer would win most of the times even if it was a freefight.
Are you really trying to tell me that the snake is realistic? Are chain punches realistic? Have you ever seen just one in any street fight?
Nice, very clear explanation.
By the way, could you speak about fighting against a grappler? Thanks for these videos, man.
What is your opinion on punching rocks , flat metal peace or wooden planks after years of punching heavy bags?
Arthritis.
@@Nostromo-Br you can only punch certain areas. If you punch the forehead or cheek you're hitting bone and it will hurt and might break your hand. That's why real martial arts aims for the nose, ears, neck, etc.
The core pro (1)/cons(9) of wc are-
1. Range, they try for sticky hands/trapping and lose to hugs, double legs, and clench.
2. Power, they simply do not rotate or extend enough to generate knockout punches (bruce lee was MMA not pure WC). Power only means something if there is followthrough, which wc lacks.
3. Reach, they have a square stance which limits their reach. When fighting an opponent with a longer reach, one needs either the blade stance or great gap closers (tyson bob/weave or tackles)
4. Mindset, they foolishly limit themselves to primarily straight punches, which makes them too predictable.
5. Balance, they tend to statically lean on their back foot which limits backwards footwork and makes forward footwork too obvious.
6. Challange, they simply do not push themselves hard enough compared to competitive athletes.
7. Tradition, they are too obsessed with training based on what some guy under yip man did, nevermind that WCs most famous student totally disregarded tradition.
8. Touch, since the focus on trapping is so developed, they are often blind to punches from opponents that dont maintain touch (ie, boxers).
9. Movement, the wc dummy is too stationary, as are most wc practioners. They often 'plant' and trap.
Pro's
Sticky hands is good tactile training for grappling, however instead on focusing on weak punches, it should focus more on elbows, headbutts, throws, trips, and takedowns. Also a ground version of this could be great in bjj.
Out of place, but..maybe WC would work with weapons. The linear movement and stabbing motions might make this style blend well with shield wearing, gladius wearing, ranks of dense legionares. Too bad it's useless now.
best words ive ever heard which no-one listens to - "keep your hands up and move well!"
cuz they're too stoopid arguing about wing chun. the final line WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE VIDEO.
YES! EXACTLY! Its amazing how many of internet experts have completely missed the point of this video!
If you want to be able to fight you have to work out against those who train in boxing and MMA which has no forms or stylized system. Its all about good conditioning. Being able to take a punch. Knowing what to do against a take down and being able to fight on the ground. Pro boxers spar all the time. Most martial art school have sparing at the end of class. Board breaking, complex forms and impractical techniques are taught.
This was not a wing chun practitioner. Sorry that's just fact.
The first key this poster mentioned is EVERYTHING in wing chun. A wing chun practitioner would have remained; for the most part, motionless with a balanced stance and arms extended pointing at opponent. He would not dance around and keep his hands down at his waist. He would have closed the gap and not retreated more than one step backwards. ESPECIALLY since his opponent was taller than him; he would have got in as close as he could and would have used redirection and counterstrikes. He did none of this.
Libs Hate Montesquieu Wing Chun is not an invincible art and yes it can be beaten. There is no unbeatable form of fighting. I am not defending the guys that lost on here; what I'm saying is that they are using what looks standard low level martial arts moves they learned watching movies and not using wing chun. Too many videos on here say "wing chun vs."; and i watch them and its nothing like the art
But the techniques he used is WC!!!!
what? ive never heard of anyone who never takes a back step LOL..
Lol weakchumps and their excuses
This video is what it looks like when a wing chun guy realizes his stuff don't work.
when you are a master you know ,"take nothing for granted ".in a fight everything counts and you must expect the unexpected. because in a fight where life could be on the line ,you don't want it to be yours.
didnt see a style here all i saw was an amature vs a taller boxer?
Excellent break down. If its WC vs Boxing. both systems need to use all their tools. Meaning WC will defiantly not want to play in the boxers range and game with nothing but his hands unless hes trained for it which is usually not the case.
As usual, here we can see the series of comments of "experts" judging the whole Wing Chun-system as "useless" from their comfortable couch, while they watch a single sparring session between two people, of whom they totally ignore the background. This approach to martial arts, which divides them in "useful" and "useless", says something not on the validity of martial arts, but only on this horrible consumerist society, which hopefully will disappear one day.
it took me 4 years to get the sensitivity and timing to become a proficient wing chun practitioner. It took me about 6 months to be proficient at boxing. what a lot of wc practitioners fail to realise is that it's a concept martial art that can be applied at any angle with simultaneous blocking and striking. when applying a solid foundation of wc to boxing it really does work well in the ring. it helps you to counter before the opponent has a chance to move. wc is a counterattacking defensive martial art and only effective when used as such. use boxing offensively and wc defensively.
"I Learn Boxing then use a gun to frighten my Opponent". :P
.... it Works. :D
I am a Wing Chun Sifu. And I must be honest. I am so tired of seeing such pathetic displays of Wing Chun by practitioners that give it such a bad display of what its actual true capabilities are able to achieve in a real combative situation. Pathetic really. So sad
don't forget the boxer had more reach, his arms are creepily long like slendermans
that was a low level amateur boxer against a so called master lol
Low low level boxer. Maybe a Muay Thai fighter that is just using his hands.
Also don't forget that the boxer not only won but basically beat the shit out of the kung fu guy.
sgt7 😂👍
With such contempt that he didn't even bother to keep his hands up - and this was an everyman boxer against a wing chun "Master".
Good commentary. Practiced Judo for years and appreciate the skills that i learned but they are still a set of skills that can only be applied at certain times with certain attackers. However it can be effective
Right. Judo IS good, but only in certain instances like you so aptly said! That is why you need to supplement judo with other systems, including stand up and grappling, to complete it.
This channel should be called “delusional self certified fake martial arts expert”
Hahahaha
Yes, he is a fake master, but not all are. Traditional wc is the system that works, not the modified.
Lord Duck, maybe they are fake certified martial arts experts, but you are a true certified Couch-Fu and MTA (Mixed Tongue Arts) master! Respect, from brave people like you, all of us have only to learn ;)...
This guy here only knows the crappy modified and is no where near to being a master. No one in his right mind would stand right in front of a boxer. It's just too dangerous! If this were a REAL traditional wc guy, that guy would have been unconscious in a minute because we know the proper footwork and use an angled step and body rotation towards the attack to see it coming. This guy doesn't even know how to make and maintain contact, which is what you are supposed to do, and then move in to close the distance. He is fighting the boxer's fight because he is staying at mid range, and not closing in to close combat range, which is the wing chun strong point!
@@mightymeatmonsta Yes, but it is quite easy to comment such situations, when you are not there fighting against your opponent. If you ever made sparring in your life, you would know that it happens all the time that people get stiff, inhibited and not able anymore to control the distance or even their own movements. It can happen also to professionals. The boxer in the video is simply more self-confident than the WC-guy. Not therefore I am ready to define someone "fake master", as the true Couch-fu master above.
I like the way you explain martial arts even though I don't practice it, I wish to in the future. You have me as a subscriber.
Bruce Lee saw the limitation of Wing Chun when he got into a fight with Wong Jack Man
Eric Talbot ,that "limitation" was in his cardio and conditioning, and prompted him to do more workouts. He won the fight, but was dismayed by how mucb energy it took. Therefore, IMO, wing chun isn't the problem, but a lack of fitness and athleticism often is.
Eric Talbot And then he found flaws in every fighting style he studied so he made his own martial art. He discarded what was useless, added what was useful and what worked for him. After all not everything will work for everyone and Bruce knew it. After all im a short guy and if i was to fight a tall guy i better work on a way to get inside or i would get knocked the f***k out!
Wong Jack Man was a well-respected and seasoned Shaolin Kung Fu master in Chinatown.
Bruce Lee was relatively unknown at that time. Bruce Lee had only learnt 2/3rds of the standard Wing Chun system under Ip Man and Wong Shun Leung before moving from Hong Kong to USA.
Shaolin Kung Fu emphasizes a lot of strength, stamina, toughness, etc., training and conditioning, and is a lot more broader and well-rounded martial art than Wing Chun.
Wing Chun excels in stand up striking, blocking and countering at close range.
Outside its optimum range, Wing Chun no longer dominates. That's one major reason why skilled grapplers, kickers, ground fighters (and in the video above, a boxer with a longer reach) are able to defeat Wing Chun in MMA matches.
I've read and heard of Bruce Lee's and Wong Jack Man's accounts of their fight. Having read and heard both sides of the story, it sounded more like a draw/stalemate rather than Bruce Lee easily beating Wong Jack Man.
Sure, Bruce Lee had very fast and powerful kicks and punches, probably moreso than Wong Jack Man. Fast punching is where Wing Chun excels. However, once Wong Jack Man got Bruce Lee into a lock, Bruce Lee was immobilised and could have had his joints and bones broken, yet Bruce Lee refused to concede defeat. Wong Jack Man said Bruce Lee was stubborn but Wong didn't want to break Lee's joints and bones just to prove his point.
[Not every martial artist would injure, maim, cripple, kill, etc., their opponent just to win a fighting match which is based on ego rather than life or death necessity. I know this serious injuring and killing for ego rather than preserving life is against true Shaolin (Buddhist) principles or any martial art that has a strong spiritual, ethical, moral aspect to it. Unfortunately, this concept has been lost in most martial arts, particularly in the West, where teachers will teach anyone who will use martial arts for any purpose provided they pay money to them. My Chinese kung fu master was against this too.]
It's because of this stubborness there was some doubt as to who won.
When Wong Jack Man openly challenged Bruce Lee a second time, Bruce Lee did not take up the challenge.
[I've come across some people like this before, interestingly, mostly western Wing Chun practitioners. I wasn't going to throw them hard onto concrete, etc., when I had good opportunity to do so, just to prove my point. However, because they were acting nonsensically, I did throw them about a bit on a softer floor later.]
No, that's because Wong Jack Man was a master of Shaolin and Lee was a SIFU AT BEST, who know only about 2/3rds of the crappy MODIFIED system, which in itself, is incomplete! Without the entire system, it becomes very difficult to fight someone who is more experienced than you. This is what happened to Bruce Lee. The incompleteness of his system, BOTH systems, actually (modified wc and JKD), start to show after time. What should have been a quick fight, was turned into a brawl.
@@integratedfightingarts No, not true. Wing chun was designed to be the most efficient system on the planet, AND IT IS! The first concept is ECONOMY OF MOTION, which means to streamline any techniques to take out unnecessary movements to make it quicker, and it also means to end the fight as quickly as possible as well! On that note, it uses way less energy because of the system design and the use of ten concepts, which not only dictate proper response in an attack, but also take out ALL INITIAL FLAWS FOUND IN ALL BOXING DERIVATIVE SYSTEMS!! Since the system was not made to fight for 30 minutes, and was made to end the fight within minutes or less, fitness isn't as much of a problem as actually KNOWING THE WHOLE SYSTEM, AND KNOWING HOW TO USE IT PROPERLY IN A REAL FIGHT SITUATION! We don't use force on force, so we expend much less energy, instead, we rely on the techniques, which work extremely well with positioning and angling, to deflect energy, redirecting it, and causing an opening that we can exploit. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick!! No matter how much you say each is different, it isn't! Unless you have another arm coming out of your forehead, or your cock grows to be enormous and grows a foot, ALL PUNCHES AND KICKS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME, EXCEPT FOR SLIGHT CHANGES IN ANGLE WHICH CAN BE ADDRESSED BY FOOTWORK!! So, in that light, you cannot update something that cannot be changed. This is why traditional wing chun works so well. It has been tested for well over 400 years in wars and in the streets of HONG KONG, thanks to William Cheung and Bruce Lee! It was tested on the rooftops and in the alleyways in Hong Kong as well.
Absolutely right. Genius analysis and commentary.
Boxing and wrestling are the oldest styles on earth from kemet martial arts 5-6 thousand years ago ..they are the styles all others styles come from...this wing chun man was never gonna beat a boxer with superior hand techniques ,more speed and a tested chin... Its just a way more superior style of tested fighting
China has written records from 1500+ years ago (as old as ancient Rome and ancient Greece) and they already were doing martial arts.
And western boxing is not a martial art because it doesn't have intellectual and spiritual components.
@ David Hutchinson. You're right. Actually it was his lack of conditioning AND his thick attachment to Wing Chun. After that, he dissected his pre existing art of Wing Chun while adding other elements into his art
Its easy as 1,2,3:
1.Sparing
2. Sparing
3. Sparing.
Distance is not about controlling the center of the ring... It's about being on your most practical range of motion, your distance is a tool to either be out of your opponent's range while being able to keep landing punches yourself or to make his footwork and power deminish by cutting the distance between your punches and his (if he's a tall person fighting at close range tends to be really akward for example). But there's way more to distance control than just "control the center of the ring".
I've watched many of your videos and really liked your analysis and advice. But what you say here is a bunch of jargon laced garbage. The bottom line is that it isn't Wing Chun vs Boxing at issue, it's a good figther versus a lousy figher. The style has no bearing whatsover. The taller guy was a much better, much more disciplined fighter. The shorter guy lacked discipline, lacked skills and was plain and simply incompotent as a fighter. He also had the advantage of being able to use kicks - hell, he could even have used elbows and kneeds - yet he still got knocked out. Does this mean Boxing is "better" than Wing Chun? Hell no. It means the better fighter wins most of the time. And in this instance, the Wing Chun dummy got made a dummy of
+James Pak Actually I thought that is what I said? The better fighter won, based on the ability to control distance, timing and of course footwork. Attributes that I said defined a fighter regardless of style. This video was not a style vs style analysis rather a skills vs skills. Skills that are simply universal regardless of what martial arts you practice. Perhaps you were to stuck on the title of the video? Anyway, thank you very much for watching. Enjoy your day my friend.
agreed, and thank you for taking the time to respond
bahahahahaha, right. Let's see now, Randy Couture kicked James Toney's ass in, what, a few seconds? Toney was a world class boxer. Couture a wrestler and an MMA artist. Hmm, using ONLY one's fists to strike when humans have elbows, knees, feet, and can hold, choke, even poke in the eye. Yup, boxing is superior alright. Make sure the next time you get into a street fight that your opponent knows he is "not allowed" to kick, elbow, head butt or punch below the waist. See how that works out for you
james, this is my argument for why its style vs style.. because in the ufc, we have seen that different arts have won against diff arts so.. but when have you seen wing chun winning at the highest level of competition? if wing chun is so good, where's the countless videos of wing chun beating other styles? you can easily find a video to show boxing ko-ing somene, kickboxing ko-ing someone, where's the wing chun?
There a couple of videos of wing chun beating other arts though. I don't understand why people put wing chun on a level with aikido
Fair analysis. I would also argue that the reach advantage played its part
i punch the wall hard repeatedly everyday i get a chance,so when i get into a fight,its an automatic one punch knockout
Zohan The Dizaster That's nothing my friend let me use his meat locker where I punch frozen cow carcasses and break their ribs like a champ yooo Adrian!!, I did it!
i say try both.
you are an idiot
another point is. you can practice wing chun become a black sash and never have fought anyone. you cant become a skilled boxer without fighting anyone. my first day of boxing, i sparred with someone. we sparred every class.
He is not a wing chun master, and amateur at best
Eric G Marsh lol you'd hope he's not a master..
The boxer was also not a champion or even a pro boxer, the boxer is wearing Amerture boxing cloths
Any wing chung practitioner is an amateur. Wing chung masters call themselves boxers
Nick S but real boxers ( pro boxers ) don’t take wing Chung seriously
redfern playa Traditional martial arts are frowned upon now-a-days.
Mostly because of youtube. These young kids believe everything they see on here. And that unfortunately means that if a video claims that its Wing Chun then they believe it is without ever having knowing anything about the real art nor how its supposed to be applied. They see "wing chun" getting beat and say its useless. Just ignorance
Right , timing is key to win no matter the style
Fight Science guy narrating this video, too much apologetics. You sound like a religious person defending his beliefs.
Wingchun is ineffective altogether. The slapping techniques simply do not work in a real combat situation.
Yes, in the traditional system, it does work and work extremely well!
Yes, what I saw is that when the WC guy would close, strikes were exchanged and then he would back off. He should stay in and press forward if need be, until the fight is finished. Instead he let the boxer be at the range that a boxer loves to be in... Also, the reach on the boxer... Good god! That makes staying inside all the more important.
This is comical that people still debate style vs style . Bruce Lee's JKD, MMA, Krav Maga. All of these arts have proven the value of cross training.
They're all mixed martial artists sooo all of them...
"dirt" arts? are you referring to the fact krav/jkd have dirty tactics that are banned in mma? tactics that are crucial in a street fight/survival?
because if this is what you're saying I'm surprised you're able to attempt to construct a placid yet mildly coherent sentence
Gangstarji
Well said, besides, those self defence techniques very rarely work. Trying to kick someone in the balls or poke their eyes is not easy. There are also no special one punch secrets that you only learn in kung fool. The reality is Muay Thai, Judo and Jujitsu will Fuck up those "Reality" practitioners because we actually train by fighting.
i practiced Wing Chung in the past to keep me physically and mentally in shape. I know what this martial art is capable of and anyone believes that you can apply this art in MMA is dillusional.
Your better off mixing wing chun with BJJ’ Muay Thai and boxing to make it better.
What's the best martial art to defend myself from a homosexual?
ZBasic64 kick his balls
ZBasic64 bjj because grappling
Ok, should I do doggie style(rear mount), missionary (guard), or 69(north south position)?
I took wing chun and philipino martial(escrima) arts for years.
Unless someone really goes thru all the forms up to the wooden dummy...it's incomplete.
WC is highly conceptual and philosophical also.
I love it and have learned alot more than just fighting skills. I'm not a badass at all but the awareness it created and new thought processes are highly valuable.
It opened doors to taichi...healing...qigong....meditation/visualization and just overall fulfilling interactions.
Wing Chun sucks. Bottom line.
this is a generalization
No, it doesn't suck, this fight sucked. Not to mention how much more reach and height advantage the other guy had. Also, there is alot of grabs in kung fu, and you can't grab someone with those big gloves on. It works in the street.
Wing chun is for movies. End of discussion
King Benosa No it aint. End of discussion.
bruce lee realized that wing chun is useless in an actual fight....and then came JetKunDo
A proper hook , upon impact, absolutely is a straight punch, people don't understand the difference between a looping haymaker and a cross/hook. A hook is basically a straight punch ending up at a 90 degree , driving/displacing the head in a straight line sideways.
If that guy is a master then Wing Chun is BS and I wouldn't bother learning it. I do appreciate many aspects of Wing Chun but I don't think its really useful in real fights.
he isn't
1) In real fights you don't use gloves. 2) WC techniques are far less effective with gloves on.
Coming from a LOSER who does muay thai?? Are you serious? Wing chun will DESTROY muay thai in less than one minute, as is proven in this video here:
ruclips.net/video/jU8B6eNm2zs/видео.html
Notice how EASY it is to beat this clown!!! This guy is a wing chun BEGINNER also! So imagine how easy it is to beat you if the wing chun guy has experience! Muay thai is crap and a total waste of time! It is ineffective in real fights outside and is incomplete, unlike TRADITIONAL wing chun, which is!!
put on some gloves and see if you punch slower. I have boxing gloves collecting dust they say how much they weigh for a reason. ignorance is one thing, stupidity another.
mightymeatmonsta omg if u think wing chun beats muay thai then your deluded. Wing chun is bs, this channel is bs, there's always that one idiot who tries to defend wing chun and that's you.
What's funny is that no matter what discipline you may follow, you all end up resorting to boxing during any confrontation. Why you may ask? Boxing and kickboxing is the essence and basics OF ALL MARTIAL SCIENCES!
It's our primal caveman instinct to just throw punches when need be. Our survival instinct to survive and when our adrenaline kicks in we tend to just throw straights and rounds whether they be hooks or uppercuts. So why make it look pretty? Boxing is extremely powerful, to the point and requires less thinking just quick simple reaction combined with your trained reflexes it's enough to get the job done on the streets. So why add to it if it works? No disrespect to other martial sciences but they looking awesome in movies and of late, the only strikes used in the MMA scene.
Whether it be boxing or what ever martial art you may follow, each to their own, but why try to make excuses for your martial art failing to boxing. Boxing as a martial science is simple trained basics. The fact that all martial sciences, generally the stand up martial art types, will 90% of the time succumb to boxing. ✌️
NO OFFENSE TO THE AUTHOR OF THIS VIDEO. CHEERS
wing chun sucks and is not effective. it's only effective against other wc fighters who use the same style. LOL. against mma, wing chun ain't shit. i train mma moderately and i bet i could beat up a wc master.
The wing chun guy was clearly an amateur. If he learned, or at least properly learned more of the system. Traditional, not modified, teaches essential things, take for example, the third form, Bil Jee, it is a lot about footwork, the second form, Chum Kiu, it's about balance, the first form, Siu Lim Tao, it's all about structure.
The style doesn't really matter. What does is timing and how you train and learn from that.
Thai kick boxing can beat WC anytime!
Say that to a real sifu.
That's the reason why there's no wing chun in the UFC, Bellator, One Championship, EFC. Because wing chun is so limited, even Bruce Lee said it, that's why he trained in other styles like boxing and wrestling.
i wrote the same damn thing on another video haha and even if 2 wc fighters duel i still feel like it looks more like a slap contest
A good defense always makes for a better offence especially when you move around your opponent
wing chun is a deadly martial art. it's meant to destroy. I hate when people watch this and say wing chun sucks. 1st they have gloves on. 2nd the wing chun guy doesn't look to experienced. boxers use gloves. wing chun isn't designed to use gloves, how did you think it was gonna end.
he is using mma gloves. look just find someone who trains mma boxing or anything that has real sparring and go a few rounds with them an see what happens. Every martial arts is useless without sparring
please, the wing chun guy is a master..
claims to be a master. that was a not a sifu of anything. more like bullshito.
mk star Anything a Wing Chun guy can do when not wearing gloves, an MMA, or hell, pretty much any guy, can also do.
Wing Chun guys always give us the same bullshit, about how in Wing Chun, you are supposed to hit them before they know what's going on, and go for the eyes, groin, neck, etc. So basically, Wing Chun teaches you to sucker punch and fight dirty. I got news for you, ANYONE can do that. No one needs training for that.
mk star so how do you prove it works
When has a wing chun fighter killed someone. Did the maker study how to kill? He or she would probably be arrested for all the people killed in his or her studies.
It’s about efficiently and speedily getting in some hits to alter the outcome of the fight, and in context it has worked
You just need to know what you’re doing
And normally the only way to do that is by sparring which wing chun normally won’t teach
You gotta get out and try to fight, idc if it’s sparring with pads, sparring with gloves, or sparring bare knuckle with a friend at a park and explaining that to the cops. You gotta fight to learn to fight, and you gotta fight against people with drastically different styles.
Boxing vs Muay Thai. The boxer loses. You don’t hear a boxer say “boxing as I study it was designed to be used as a gentleman’s way of settling agreements. Those kicks and knees are not something my art allows, my art is still better”
The boxer will look at how HE failed, he will improve HIMSELF, and maybe adapt and train with some techniques he saw the other dude use and he becomes a better fighter
What some wing chun people like you do is they get into a fight after sparring twice, they lose against a Brazilian Jiujitsu guy. “Of course he wins here because wing chun isn’t designed to be used here but how can he handle 3 guys with swords! CHECKMATE”
What he should have done was looked at his loss, took a look at some techniques that he struggled to counter, incorporate them into training, and then actually get some sparring reps in using that
wing chun moving is shit(i think), because of lack of speed.
I am training wing chun and that stance on heels is driving me crazy.
Its nice for power but i cant move that well like on toes.
I saw only 1 mistake! he studied the wrong art! I respect him for putting his money where his mouth is though! all the mistakes you mentioned are what happens to people when they're ineffective! when you start getting tagged, you panic and start making shit up! guys it's never too late to change to something that woks! I don't know why people are so emotionally invested!
Amazing!!! as usual master sifu! KEEP IT UP!!
I will throw my two knuckles in the ring for all the knucklehead boxers out there who will inevitably make ignorant comments to prove their cojones. Take the gloves off and boxing fails in the street quickly, and this is the reason why managers will never let their fighters get into fight with a streetfighter The main two reasons are: 1. no big gloves to turtle behind. 2. it's knock out system not a point accumulation system. So a different strategy is required. It is overcommitment of power to finish it quickly, and knuckles are not the weapon of choice. As for supposed Wing Chun master the boxer was mocking him and he deserved it.
Shannon Lodge Boxing fails in the street? Boxing has been used more successfully in the streets than Wing Chun has.
More evidence of it being used also.
Shannon Lodge Why would you let your prizefighter get into a street fight? There is no money involved, boxing is a business.
ComplexBlackness that guy is a complete idiot if he thinks wing chun is a better than boxing. Even Bruce Lee said it was ineffective
Go to respected boxing gyms who have trained champions. Offer an open challenge to all boxers. Get the boxers to show us their credentials. Video the fights. Upload it onto RUclips.
P.S. I'm not a boxer, although I'm learning boxing right now. I've studied many martial arts and intend to study more. Kung Fu is my favourite so far. However, I am not so ignorant, arrogant or closed-minded to knock other good martial arts.
Go to respected boxing gyms who have trained champions. Offer an open challenge to all boxers. Get the boxers to show us their credentials. Video the fights. Upload it onto RUclips.
P.S. I'm not a boxer, although I'm learning boxing right now. I've studied many martial arts and intend to study more. Kung Fu is my favourite so far. However, I am not so ignorant, arrogant or closed-minded to knock other good martial arts.
wing chun is real, I seen a wing chun master who was legitimately super strong, fast, and had programmed wing chun moves so well its automatic yet in full control. However, this weird phenomenon of wing chun trying to be used in sparring is dumb. Its just a super rigid and formulaic way to move instead of just keeping your hands up and being loose. Real wing chun really cant be used for sparring, which I know is a common cop-out, but its tr00. It would have no 'wing chun stance' where you move a step at a time with flat feet, reach out to block punches, and reach out to throw 'chain punches' which are just shitty kung fu styled boxing punches. It would be more like a flurry combination to a single movement, and if that fails, it devolves to the same schoolyard clinch tactics of any untrained person in a fight, if you suck. It would be over in seconds, either win or lose and flailing pussy.
There are a lot of nice and useful techniques in the Wing Chun, which can be useful for boxers. such as liding direct after overlapping of the opponents hands, a hand that slips into a blow after paring, etc... Jeet Kune Do is the best!
do you guys know the name of the boxer or the name of the Wing Chun Master ?
The room should be made small by wing chun foot work. Then attack at close quarter because the adversary has no room to move. Punch parallel to the floor and don't head hunt. If you head hunt it make you stand up to reach the opponents head and takes you out of wing chun structure. Most important cut the ring off.
The limitations is not in the style of fighting but the fighter, that goes across the board for any style or fighter.
Agreed.
Doesn't wing chun also use their legs to keep distance?
Do you think maybe the reach advantage came into play. Especially since he gave up the middle ground?
I'm Asian myself and grew up learning Wing Chun myself but seriously, it would lose to boxing anyday or even Wrestling or Jiu Jitsu. Wing Chung has no ground game and it most likely attack to the body. Boxing has a lot of footwork and they box from the outside and all around. Wing Chun don't possess those technique and it fight grounded in one position. If you watch a lot of Wing Chun fight tournament, it wouldn't even compete with Karate, Muay Thai, Jiu Jistsu, Wrestling or Boxing. Wing Chung only looks good against Wing Chun but against MMA you will lose miserably if you have no ground game. Bruce Lee even said it himself that any Chinese martial artist who have train for 20 years would lose to wrestling and boxing who has only train within a year.
That's why Bruce Lee created Jeet Kune Do to fuse Western fighting style with Chinese fighting style, which is all about quick hit to the pressure points with Boxing footwork.
In my eyes the reason why wing tsun creates the false the believe of being bad is because its not made for random fights like these shown here.
Its created in war and meant to be lethal and at that as fast as possible.It´s main strength is to kill the opponent or unable them as quick as possible. Breaking arms, blinding eyes with fingers and so on.
Is that allowed in a tournament? I bet not... so its simply not meant for these fights.
Some basic techniques are grab+holding hands and breaking them in the same motion. Also not viable in fun-fights....
Well I can be expert while watching a video, anyone can, but it's different when you're fighting. Wing Chun just doesn't work.
oh yes, only the systems approved by white people who voted for trump are effective. yes you are correct.
To me it's it's all about individual, never about the style or how hard you train some people are just simply good at fighting or any other thing and some are not, the one born for the purpose is greater than the one who tries to achieve it, some men are natural born warriors.
So this "master" wing chun vs a random boxer. The master lost.
Does this not tell you everything you need to know? That wing chun is inferior in a real fight.
The wing chun here couldn't hold the centre, because if the boxer pushes forward with aggression, his style can't handle the power of the hits, so the boxer controls it because of his advantage right away.
The boxer does not fear the wing chun counter because it's the equivalent to a jab. The wing chun however got knocked down by the boxing counter.
How confident will you be to throw a punch, when a boxer is trained to fire back and hits harder? Hence he becomes timid.
Boxers learn timing, even amateurs, so it's not that the wing chun had bad timing, it's that the boxer uses this to counter.
Bottom line, what would wing chun have to do to win? I'm not sure. KO power isn't there against a moving target. You can't swarm a guy that is composed and waiting for an opening to rip a big right or tight hook that will floor you.
There's many ways the boxer wins, however the wing chun? I can't see a clear line they can use.
BJJ + Judo you can at least make the case that if they can take a hit or two and get in close they have a chance to keep it there and win through technique outside striking.
Muay Thai you can argue has good enough power leg kicks to disrupt a boxer.
Wing chun? You might as well be slapping a buffalo expecting to win.
It's because he's not a master and he's just plain bad.
In many cases, it's more about how to train and extract the style and not the style itself.
The Cardboard Lord He's bad because he lost. However nobody can show me someone good at wing chun when faced vs what's regarded as a real combat art.
We have had Muay Thai people occasionally dominate combat sports, Kickboxing stood up for a good time, boxing clearly had a huge advantage over wing chun purely because your training for a fight that will actually happen. Not just a silly spar with no meaning.
This man was a master and all would look the same. There is a reason why people don't use this in real MMA fighting.
The same as I said above is true, wing chun isn't used in MMA because it was disregarded, people likely tried to use it and found no practical application and it went extinct. Boxing, BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo etc all had elements that's you could use or even set a foundation from, Muay Thai just isn't practical.
I think it takes years to be truly considered "good enough in a street fight" for wing chun, because that's how long it takes to get through the 3 basic forms. I love that you said muay thai wasn't practical. I don't like the amount of amatuer wing chun practitioners on RUclips though. This somewhat reminds me of all of those
"bs martial art master" videos. Those are quite funny.
The Cardboard Lord I said Muay Thai had practical uses and some things can be learned from.
Wing Chun I just see as a weak art, against a boxer or other art it suffers from not having enough power.
The real problem with arts like these is that since the 80's and 90's there has been a huge surge in martial arts due to movies. Many kids go, adults practice etc. The world is not short of martial arts practitioners both skilled and not.
However if you have been in and around or witnessed or even watched online, real fights or street fights - or videos of for instance a boxer and wing chun. We don't see the ancient martial arts being used and when tried failed on every occasion I can think of. This isn't random chance that every practitioner is bad.
The problem is that a wing chun man (one my friends who I did a similar spar with to this video - boxing vs wing chun) suffers from a total lack of power and not great movement. Chin is too open and exposed for angle shots, so if I hook left and step left and follow up, it opens up the wing chun the same as a boxer - however in boxing you train for this with position of lead foot etc --- wing chun lacks this also.
Boxers train to knock you out, and the difference is they get tested.
Fight someone full of adrenaline and means to hurt you, who has a little experience and you will realise the wing chun slaps although seem powerful in the dojo and feel good. Don't work. Solid punching and aggression does.
Of course Muay Thai has practical uses, pretty much all styles do. *but it's still kinda funny you said that.*
So how long has your friend been doing wing chun and is it modified or traditional.
I don't really wanna argue too much though since I'm semi tired and people can be stubborn, myself included.
when the boxer has the longer reach by that large of a margin its hard not to get backed up
This is ONE toxic corner of the internet! Man guys I think I need to get antibiotics when I want to stay longer here.
@Mr Fight SCIENCE: Good job detailing those points. A lot of the people of the internet don't realize the worth of the content you are providing!
The wing chun guy was tiny and the boxer was quite tall. He easily had a 6 inch reach advantage that meant he could often punch the wing chun guy with impunity.
does it even matter that the boxer is taller and has a longer reach which causes the wc guy to fail??
We must see that the size difference here is substantial
timing is long hand long leg, techni is Mentality
the most powerful puncher are the boxers, they are trained to punch fast and accurate and not to mention powerful punch which is twice the weight of the boxer, wing chun can parry punches of a boxer but the thing is the weight of the power which the boxer releases when punching, i suggest the wing chun guy should avoid punch rather the parrying them and then counter with the wing chun punch when you have an opening.
nice breakdown, very much agree.
you cannot expect to control the centerline from the outside if the other guy is that much bigger. you have to hit hard enough to stop your opponent, or at least interrupt his movement. you can't use wing chun with your hands down. you control the center gate, OR the left gate, OR the right gate. each can give you opportunity to hit without being hit, but the center gate is the hardest to use, particularly when your opponent has longer reach. Wing chun needs bagua circle walk to complete it.
No matter what art you're studying, when fighting a boxer don't drop your guard and lean your face into his lead hand! Even some with no training know better instinctively.
It's kind of silly that this martial art apparently only works in clinching range, but does not prepare you for fighting in the clinch or grappling.
You can say that the Win chun guy didnt represent the martial art,
As a 4 year amateur boxer i can tell you that the boxer having his arms down 90% of the fight and messing up his basic stance by crossing his legs doesnt represent most boxers either.
the term sifu and master are often used wrongly, two fighters of equal weight age height and skill level should be used in any kind of test to prove that one style is superior to another, my experience has been that an open mind and the flexibility to admit that certain moves from other styles may be superior to your own will make you a better fighter
In my humble opinion this had less to do with the martial arts and more to do with the type of fighters. I know nothing of WC, but have liked boxing for a while, so from my perspective: the WC guy doesn't fight as if you would against a taller opponent - you need a lot of fakes to cover up your movement, you need to get past the guard by throwing punches from off-angles and even just punching their hands out of the way sometimes and if allowed, you have to mix in punches to the body: it's closer to you and he'll have to defend more targets. Meanwhile, while not masterful, the taller boxer is doing what would be expected - he's keeping the distance with footwork, using straight punches and throwing power and pivoting away if it gets too close. Also, notice, he was keeping an eye on the ever-changing stance of the WC guy - he used the basic strategies for fighting a southpaw or orthodox depending on how the WC guy engaged... I'm not even sure the WC guy was aware of his own ever-changing stance. Conditioning might have something to do with it - they both ate a few punches, but the WC guy looked wobbly just before he went down, in fact that last "combo" didn't really make sense for any martial art - he threw a jab from orthodox, switch-stepped and tried to throw a jab from southpaw, but got caught with the right hand counter... not only did he make himself the perfect target for that moment, but he wasn't gaining anything from it, strategically.
Sifu can you do a live fight and show us right I never see any videos of showing the right way to apply it's always pointing out what some1 else did wrong