Rabbi Talks Book of Mormon & Evangelical Protesters! w/ Joe Charnes
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- On today's episode of Mormon Book Reviews, Steven Pynakker talks with Rabbi Joe Charnes who has a brand new podcast on @scripturecentralofficial! We talk about why Joe decided to become a Rabbi, engaging the people of the Restoration, encountering the Book of Mormon, and being confronted by Evangelical protesters at General Conference.
AI Generated Episode Description:
Evangelical and Rabbi discussed various topics including their experiences with the Book of Mormon, interfaith engagement, and the importance of mutual respect and understanding among different faiths. They also shared personal anecdotes, discussed the significance of faith, and explored the interpretation and significance of the Book of Mormon.
#bookofmormon #judaism #bookofmormonstudy #scripturecentral #holybook #mormonbookreviews #evangelical #stevenpynakker #churchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints #mormonchurch #mormonism #mormonhistory #utah #generalconference #thebookofmormon
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• Finding Peace in Times...
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I am a 64 year old life long member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I absolutely loved this conversation!! I love listening to Rabbi Joe. I have heard him on other RUclips Channels discussing the Book of Mormon. I love how he breaks down the individual verses, and often going word by word, and breaking down those words. He is very insightful!! What a lovely man!! Thank you for having him on!! As a 64 year old life long member of The LDS Church, I have heard all the opinions of what people think they know about us, or what they "believe" about us, without even knowing us!! You said it best, when you quoted that quote that said, The Book of Mormon is the only book in the world that you can have an opinion about without having ever read it!! As members of the LDS Church, we don't put down or criticize other churches. We believe that there is good in all churches. It is so refreshing to finally see people of other faiths giving us the same respect!! Steve, I hope you are continuing to heal every day. You know that a lot of people who follow you on your channel are praying for your 100% recovery!! I wouldn't be surprised if some of my fellow LDS Brothers & Sisters have also put your name on our Temple Prayer Rolls!! ❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️
@@sharenhansen7508 Yes! I've been blessed by many prayers from the Saints at the temple
Thank you for your kind words. And I look forward to having many more reflections on your holy Book of Mormon with Steven. I pray they are equally inspiring. Shalom
My favorite point was the Rabbi’s emphasis on not “trifling” with sacred texts. Wow! That is what I needed to hear 👂. Thank you! 🙏
What a breath of fresh air after hearing Trent Horn be dismissive of the text, to hearing Rabbi Joe gain nuggets of wisdom. Stark contrast
I am unable to comment on Trent Horn, since I am unaware of this comments, but thank you very much for appreciating my reflections on the wisdom in the Book of Mormon
I love the rabbi. I listen to him every week. He brings such a beautiful perspective to the scriptures shalom
@@kellythomp1 spread the word about Rabbi Joe!
Thank you so much. May you always continue to see beauty in life. Shalom
Excellent! Really enjoyed the thoughts and conversation!
I loved the slow insightful way Rabbi Joe Charnes read and discussed the Articles of Faith and Book of Mormon verses.
Thank you. Sadly, we all often read our texts much too quickly. It is therefore, no wonder that we regularly fail to receive the genuine depth and wisdom that these holy works are offering.
Everybody needs a bishop and a rabbi. 😊❤ I'm relieved that you are continuing to recover, Steve.
LDS please don't reject GOD of BIBLE & follow the FALSE GODS of Joseph Smith?
Isn't your eternity worth looking for TRUTH?
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of J.S. and LDS members.
Isaiah 44:6 says, "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is NO God." & "Is there any God besides me?.. I know not one". God is saying there is NOT an infinite amount of Gods, and there is none like Him. LDS teaches that there is. He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did" (King Follett Sermon) Either the BIBLE or LDS is FALSE.
LDS CLAIMS the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods. This is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was CORRUPTED and "plain and precious parts" were removed AFTER the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and ABOMINABLE church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Nephi claims this church was founded by the DEVIL (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively TEST the BIBLE v.s. BOM.
LDS paid scholar Dan McClellan in 2024: "The data pretty firmly points in the OPPOSITE direction of a historical BOM" youtube short video "Is the BOM historical?"
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings described by J.S. (Mormon 9:32) ever found ANYWHERE. All reputable linguists have rejected it as mythical as of 2024. Professor Charles Anthon Feb. 17, 1834
NO trace of Jewish DNA found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (LDS scholar, DNA expert): “the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are NOT Jewish. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 drawings from an Egyptian papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus of scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In drawings Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do NOT match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of “2 million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. Impossible for millions of dead warriors in metal armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the "great city Zarahemla"- impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla described in BOM (4 Nephi 8; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. This "temple" could not just disappear.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) ANYWHERE. Impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet NOT ONE ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the BOM. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists”; 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
According to the Smithsonian Institute, the following items (which, according to BOM, existed in the Americas b/w 600 B.C. & 421 A.D.) have absolutely no evidence for existing in the America's during that time: Silk-Alma 4:6, Nephi 13:7; Horses-Enos 1:21; Steel-Jarom 1:8, 2 Nephi 5:15,16; Iron-2 Nephi 5:15; Coins-Alma 11:5-19; Donkeys-Mosiah 5:14, 12:5; Cattle, Cow, and Oxen-Enos 1:21; Pigs-3 Nephi 7:8; Wheat-Mosiah 9:9
NO goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no chariot parts, no brass, no evidence of Kings in BOM Alma 18: 9-12; Mosiah 8:10 & 9:9; 1 Ne 18:25
Can we ignore the STRONG EVIDENCE AGAINST THE BOM and trust our FEELINGS as to it's truth even though it CONFLICTS with the EVIDENCE and the words of the BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tells us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The BIBLE WARNS us against this SUBJECTIVE type of truth test. The LDS test for truth violates the Biblical test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be DECEIVED. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to STUDY and MEDITATE on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS (J.S.) have gone out into the world."
BIBLE TEST: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, why would Jesus affirm it! “I told you EVERYTHING written about ME in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Also, these scrolls are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity" and "TRUTH". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham: the Isaiah scroll does not support the BOM. Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, BYU, the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Prof. Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
Is the GOD of the LDS the same as in the BIBLE? NO! LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the gospel of JOHN. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 160 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith mistranslation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV. In order to try to make things work for LDS, J.S. added extra verses and verbiage into John 1 that were never there in any ancient texts to try to separate the idea of a trinity into 3 Gods.
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and ZERO support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of LDS and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "MANY WOLVES in sheep's clothing" will come trying to ADD to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and added you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for Satan's lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal biblical God.
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, he tells us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version FAILS the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
LDS FALSE Apostles: "The law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 110
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Yes! We all need many different saints and guides and mentors to learn from.
@@joecharnes2454 You need Jesus. LDS teaches you to believe the bible is corrupted to keep you from the truth.
LDS CLAIMS the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . This is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was CORRUPTED and "plain and precious parts" were removed AFTER the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and ABOMINABLE church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Nephi claims this church was founded by the DEVIL (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively TEST the BIBLE v.s. BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. J.S. lied. These scrolls are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity" and "TRUTH". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham said the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
Thank you both for sharing and showing the first fruit of the spirit with us. I’m grateful for the beautiful insight into the sacred text of the Book of Mormon that I hold so dear. I’m grateful to learn more of the truth you have to share as well. I love that we can find place of belonging as we learn from each other.
Thank you, and bless you. And I look forward to discovering more of the beautiful truth contained in your holy Book of Mormon.
Stevens channel is awesome. It took me a few episodes to realise that Steven wasn't lds 😅 and then I was confused and shocked that someone from another faith wasn't bad mouthing my faith.
Today's episode was something very special, to hear the perspective from this wonderful rabbi who opened my ears and eyes and wonderful how you made those scripture verses come alive. It's given me a greater appreciation for these verses. I'm impressed that rabbi Joe also knows the Holy Bible very well. I'm full of admiration for men of God sharing their spiritual knowledge and including the LDS in their conversation on a respectful level.
Thank you both 💖
Thank you and bless you from the bottom of my heart. Keep shining your light. And to my good brother Steven, thank you and bless you for what you are doing.
I am a 64 year old convert of almost 48 years. This was incredibly beautiful. Thank you your kindness and sensitivity toward our faith. The rabbi’s reading of the book of Mormon passages that I have heard so many times came to me with renewed understanding. I appreciate you both.
Thank you for the kindness and beauty of your faith🙏
I really enjoyed this interview with the rabbi, Steve. You did a wonderful job of letting him share without interrupting him like so many other LDS # advocates do when they claim to be interviewing someone but they’re the one doing all the talking. You’ve got such a great attitude and a wonderful spirit. I enjoyed the rabbi, sharing the verses from the book of Mormon and just his overall thoughts on the subject matter. Glad your health is getting better.
Stephen does an absolutely wonderful job letting people share their thoughts and feelings. I, on the other hand, need to do a much better job sharing and rambling less😁
Such a delightful, sublime conversation-I only wish it had gone even longer. Thank you both for having and sharing it! 🙏🏻 Can you imagine if Rabbi Charnes were teaching Book of Mormon at any of the BYUs? He would be an instant "standing room only" professor. A few random takeaways: I'd never glimpsed his spicy side, until this video! :} Also, I loved how your bookshelf backgrounds merged so well together-I could squint my eyes and imagine the two of you in the same space :D Shalom to you both 🤟🏻🌄🕊️
Thank you! We all need a little spice in our lives😁. I also noticed how beautifully our bookshelves blended with, and almost into each other. And I look forward to more “sublime conversation” with Steven!
This interview was beautiful. Interfaith connections is exactly the way of Christ. I also echo, I'm so grateful prayers were answered for your health! 🙏🏻💛
LDS please don't reject GOD of BIBLE & follow the FALSE GODS of Joseph Smith?
Isn't your eternity worth looking for TRUTH?
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of J.S. and LDS members.
Isaiah 44:6 says, "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is NO God." & "Is there any God besides me?.. I know not one". God is saying there is NOT an infinite amount of Gods, and there is none like Him. LDS teaches that there is. He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did" (King Follett Sermon) Either the BIBLE or LDS is FALSE.
LDS CLAIMS the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods. This is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was CORRUPTED and "plain and precious parts" were removed AFTER the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and ABOMINABLE church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Nephi claims this church was founded by the DEVIL (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively TEST the BIBLE v.s. BOM.
LDS paid scholar Dan McClellan in 2024: "The data pretty firmly points in the OPPOSITE direction of a historical BOM" youtube short video "Is the BOM historical?"
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings described by J.S. (Mormon 9:32) ever found ANYWHERE. All reputable linguists have rejected it as mythical as of 2024. Professor Charles Anthon Feb. 17, 1834
NO trace of Jewish DNA found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (LDS scholar, DNA expert): “the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are NOT Jewish. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 drawings from an Egyptian papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus of scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In drawings Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do NOT match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of “2 million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. Impossible for millions of dead warriors in metal armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the "great city Zarahemla"- impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla described in BOM (4 Nephi 8; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. This "temple" could not just disappear.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) ANYWHERE. Impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet NOT ONE ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the BOM. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists”; 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
According to the Smithsonian Institute, the following items (which, according to BOM, existed in the Americas b/w 600 B.C. & 421 A.D.) have absolutely no evidence for existing in the America's during that time: Silk-Alma 4:6, Nephi 13:7; Horses-Enos 1:21; Steel-Jarom 1:8, 2 Nephi 5:15,16; Iron-2 Nephi 5:15; Coins-Alma 11:5-19; Donkeys-Mosiah 5:14, 12:5; Cattle, Cow, and Oxen-Enos 1:21; Pigs-3 Nephi 7:8; Wheat-Mosiah 9:9
NO goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no chariot parts, no brass, no evidence of Kings in BOM Alma 18: 9-12; Mosiah 8:10 & 9:9; 1 Ne 18:25
Can we ignore the STRONG EVIDENCE AGAINST THE BOM and trust our FEELINGS as to it's truth even though it CONFLICTS with the EVIDENCE and the words of the BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tells us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The BIBLE WARNS us against this SUBJECTIVE type of truth test. The LDS test for truth violates the Biblical test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be DECEIVED. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to STUDY and MEDITATE on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS (J.S.) have gone out into the world."
BIBLE TEST: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, why would Jesus affirm it! “I told you EVERYTHING written about ME in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Also, these scrolls are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity" and "TRUTH". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham: the Isaiah scroll does not support the BOM. Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, BYU, the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Prof. Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
Is the GOD of the LDS the same as in the BIBLE? NO! LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the gospel of JOHN. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 160 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith mistranslation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV. In order to try to make things work for LDS, J.S. added extra verses and verbiage into John 1 that were never there in any ancient texts to try to separate the idea of a trinity into 3 Gods.
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and ZERO support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of LDS and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "MANY WOLVES in sheep's clothing" will come trying to ADD to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and added you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for Satan's lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal biblical God.
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, he tells us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version FAILS the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
LDS FALSE Apostles: "The law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 110
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Thank you. Interfaith dialogue, when done in the right way, is truly beautiful. Keep sending prayers to our good brother, Steven
So very nice! Thank you both for your calm and gentle handling of your fellow Latter-day Saints’ beliefs and expressions of faith. Well done!
Thank you! And I thank you and your community for doing the same with others so beautifully
I just tuned in…am excited to see Rabbi Joe..Love his wisdom and insight. ❤
🙇♂️
Found you on Zion Media & loved it.
Subscribed. ✅
Awesome, thanks!
I found this to be very uplifting. Thank you for this video.
Thank you for your words
I thoroughly enjoyed your conversation with this sincere Rabbi. I liked that he read a few verses point by point, in his very Rabbi way. (I'm LDS and read some of the Book of Mormon nightly. I think I'll slow down and pay better attention to ALL the words I read, using my mind, heart, and ears. THANK YOU, RABBI! and SHALOM.
I am humbled and truly blessed by your words, and I am certain your renewed dedication to studying the Book of Mormon will only increase the spiritual blessings in your life
This was simply beautiful. Rabbi Joe truly has the Spirit of God with him and in him.
Thank you for being able to see more within me than I am often able to see within myself. Blessings.
@@joecharnes2454 You're very welcome. I love that you're able to recognize good when you see it and not cast it off. You have a gentle spirit and humility about you that invites the Holy Spirit and keeps you in tune with it and the good things of God. I have a deep respect and love for the Jewish community and for their love and devotion to God. We believe your people are the forefathers of our religion and worship the same God as we do - Jehovah or also known as Yahweh. I agree that we have much more in common than not and that this is true throughout most or all religions. It's a shared belief that showing love and respect to others and God is of utmost importance. Now it's just a matter of us all learning to follow what we profess to believe. It seems you follow this principle. Thank you again Rabbi Joe and God bless you! 🙏
And also, thank you Steve for bringing Rabbi Joe onto your program. I can also see a lot of the same qualities of Rabbi Joe in you. God bless you too and I'm so glad to see your condition has been improving! 🙏
Thank you for having the sincere Rabbi on your podcast. I was truly inspired! Also, I'm glad you are feeling better.
I am sincerely grateful for your kind words. And I too am delighted to hear about Steven’s continuing recovery.
Thank you for having this interview with Rabbi Joe Charnes and for sharing it. He is always a delight to listen to ☀
Thank you. I am grateful for the opportunity to be in dialogue with Steven, and I look forward to having many more with him
Thank you Steven. Thank you so much Rabbi. May Hashem bless you both.
And may Hashem bless you
@@joecharnes2454 Rabbi, I literally teared up and was very touched by your response. Thank you for what you do. One never knows how important and meaningful five little (well, One not so little) words can be. Thank you.
@@boba.6478 So true 🙏
I love this. Joe is very enlightened, you can tell he's worked for it and he's worked hard to hang on to it. He knows what matters most and keeps it in front. That's what it takes to keep that fire burning!
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Steve, I know you're struggling/suffering brother. I'm all too familiar, and I hate to see it in you. 🥺
Hang in there and cry to Him as much as you need to friend.
I testify; that anyone who reads the Book of Mormon seeking truth, will know that it is legitimate. It IS of God.
I don't care what what Joseph Smith did or didn't do. Besides, none of us were there people! So many like to talk as if they know exactly what happened. You don't even know exactly what happened today! Silly humans. Lol
Imagine the rumors at a workplace and multiply that by 100...
Considering the opposition right from the start, actually a testimony builder for me by the way, the waters are definitely muddy. Let the ancient prophetic writings speak to you; I dare you. Aside from the Bible there is no other book on the planet that is more amazing and important.
It's just amazing, too dang cool.🤯
Much love in Christ, blessings to both of you! 🕊️🤍🕊️
You are so right, my friend, about connecting with the sacred. It absolutely requires dedication and effort, and yet I still manage to somehow regularly lose my way. But thankfully, the more I get lost, the deeper my desire burns to reconnect with the holy, and The Holy One. Blessings to you, and many prayers to you Steven, for a speedy and complete recovery
This conversation was a gift ❤! Thank you to you both.
It was a gift to be invited on Steven’s show. He is wonderful.
Lovely - great inspiration for how to make scripture studie more efficient for our Seminar/Institut students as well for me old man 🙏🙏🙏 Thank you for your mission and your channel 🙂
I pray we all take more time to ponder over our scripture studies. It will certainly lead to greater inspiration.
When the Messiah comes, I believe there will be good people of many faiths here to greet Him. God knows the intent of our heart and will treat us accordingly. Thank you for the discussion and inspiring thoughts!!
wonderful people
🙏
Someone mentioned in the comments they loved how Rabbi Joe slowed down as he read the verses. I did too.
If you’re reading any scripture and you’re doing it to check a box, you’ll do it fast because the goal is to finish and check the box. In addition, you’ll miss the profundity of not only the chapter, the verse, but the single word choices.
I was called to be an LDS bishop a year ago. I’m sad to report that for most of my life I have read the Book of Mormon to check the box. However, during this last year, having been so intimately involved in members’ lives, I have slowed down my reading, literally pondering single words.
If I find the word unique or poignant, I will look up its definition in the Webster’s 1828 dictionary. That exercise presents synonyms for which I look up their definition.
When I come back to the verse, it literally pops off the page! My mind and heart have been edified and touched, and I see the potential applications I would have never seen when I read the Book of Mormon out of duty.
Thanks so much for this wonderful discussion!
I love that both of you are sitting in front of a library.
I love that you noticed our libraries in the background. Thank you. And what’s interesting is that our bookshelves actually look very similar!
A rabbi, a bishop and a priest walk into the bar and the bartender says what is this a joke?
Oh boy
The Old Testiment wisdom on truth...
Ecclesiastes 12:10-14
"The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
Steven, I would gladly subscribe to your channel if you were not friends with nasty slandering haters such as your homie John Dehlin. What is it that you think you have in common with bitter enemies of God's church??
@@nonrepublicrat I believe God placed me in John's life because he needs people of Faith as friends. Remember, I did an episode on Mormon Stories called "How Mormonism Saved an Evangelicals Life"!
Say it's 1940, and you are good friends with a guy named Hitler. You also say that you are a good friend of the Jews. In my mind, this can not be.
More wisdom from prophets:
Prophet Brigham Young:
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity and calling, as God does in Heaven" - Journal of Discourses, Vol.14, p.203
"The time was when a test of a Christian was his confession of Jesus Christ…This is no test for this generation…This generation, however, is not left without a test. I have taught for thirty years, and still teach, that he that believeth in his heart and confesseth with his mouth that Jesus is the Christ and that Joseph Smith is his Prophet to this generation, is of God; and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fulness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is antichrist." Journal of Discourses, Vol.9, p.312.
Joseph Fielding Smith said: [There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).
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This was a beautiful interfaith dialogue. I found it inspiring. But I think it’s almost a waste of time to have an interfaith dialogue with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because their ultimate goal is to show you that they are right and you are wrong. They can’t help it because it is the way they have been indoctrinated, that theirs is the only true church on the face of the Earth and you cannot be saved in the highest level of God’s kingdom without being a temple endowed, and sealed for time and eternity, member.
Thank you for your kind words, my friend. I am grateful you are able to see the beauty of two people of faith seeking to connect with each other simply because we are human beings. And I also understand your concerns about some members of the Latter-day Saint community (and I emphasize some) who appear to approach the sacred with less inclusivity. But this is true of every community of faith, including my own. This is simply the reality and the result of being human. My only hope is that you will read the comments both from this podcast and from Scripture Central, where I have taught on the book of Alma. I believe it will offer you a very different vision of the heart and mind of many Latter-day Saints. Their words have helped me learn to see with more depth, and breadth, and heart. And while I acknowledge that they may not make up the majority of the Latter-day Saint community, their words broadly represent my experience with the Saints. And my life has been blessed beyond measure because of my connection with them. Shalom.
It’s funny that you say that, because wasting time is exactly how I feel when talking to people who are 100% convinced that I’m damned to hell because I don’t believe in their incomprehensible, non-scriptural Trinity, and who are presuming to _tell me_ (and getting wrong) what _I believe_ as a lifelong member of my faith. Indoctrinated? Seriously? Can’t you at least give us the basic credit of being rational human beings with minds of our own? Is that too much to ask? If you have encountered some of the jerks, that exist in any large collection of human beings, I am sorry. But please don’t employ the same tactics you despise in others.
Wisdom from prophets:
"The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: 'Reading the experience of others, . . . can never give us a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God. Knowledge of these things can only be obtained by experience through the ordinances of God set forth for that purpose. Could you gaze into heaven five minutes, you would know more than you would by reading all that ever was written on the subject.' (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith)
Joseph F Smith taught:
We believe in righteousness. We believe in all truth, no matter to what subject it may refer. No sect or religious denomination in the world possesses a single principle of truth that we do not accept or that we will reject. We are willing to receive all truth, from whatever source it may come; for truth will stand, truth will endure. No man's faith, no man's religion, no religious organization in all the world, can ever rise above the truth. )
Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine: Sermons and Writings of President Joseph F. Smith,
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, p. 324.)
Gonzalez Gary Harris Karen Davis Richard
I found this man as disgusting in his evasion as I find the LDS people who are evasive. He should be willing to say where he got S'micha and he should criticize the LDS for their Lies, Deception and Subterfuge (LDS)
Thank you for your kind
comments.
1) I was ordained by Rabbi Mordecai Finley, PhD, past President and Provost of the Academy for Jewish Religion, California, which I discussed beginning about 7 minutes into the podcast.
I do apologize to everybody for my endless ramblings to Steven’s very simple question about my ordination process. I was trying to simply summarize my studies in different seminaries, along with trying to explain the different ordination options-private, direct, accredited, non-accredited (all of which are legitimate). I will certainly be much more intentional and intelligible when explaining the ordination process in my next dialogue with Steven.
2) I recommend re-listening to the podcast beginning at 1:10:35: “Let your gentleness be known to everyone/Let your gentleness be evident to all” (Philippians 4:5, NRSV, NIV). These words model a beautiful way to honorably and gracefully engage with people, especially where there may be strong disagreement and passion.
3) You may also want to revisit the podcast at 1:09:24: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace…kindness…gentleness” (Galatians 5:22-23, ESV). These are wonderful qualities to cultivate, both in dialogue and in life. To be lacking in these qualities is to be lacking in Spirit.
4) I would also suggest reading and reflecting on 2 Timothy 2:25, which offers the beautiful advice and counsel of “correcting his opponents with gentleness” (ESV).
5) To be “gentle, not quarrelsome” (1 Timothy 3:3, ESV), “to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people” (Titus 3:2, ESV) are also verses worthy of reflection.
6) And James 3:17 reminds us that “wisdom from above is…peaceable, gentle…full of mercy and good fruits (ESV).
7) Finally, Matthew 7:16 states: You will recognize them by their fruits/Ye shall know them by their fruits” (ESV, KJV).
8) I could offer many similar quotes from the rabbis and sages of my Jewish faith tradition, but I felt quoting from the New Testament, which I believe you may revere, would potentially have more impact on your heart, and (hopefully) your words.
Looking forward to hearing more fruitful dialogue, manifesting more of the first fruit of the Spirit: love. “Ye shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:16, KJV).
Shalom
We all need teachers. Thank you for giving the example.
@@johnh5073 The Rabbi has taken the time to respond to your comment. Are you going to respond? All I ask is that you be civil in your response.
REALLY listen to what he says at the 58 plus minute mark.