I don't even do the raid and this week and last I started solo doing the first chest in deep stone. Got a red border commemoration both times. Worth doing if want the guns without raising. Just sparrow thru it in a few minutes for secret chest and bam
I crafted two of these. One with Hatchling & Dragonfly, for the unique combo and add clear silliness. One with Reconstruction & Bait and Switch for Tormentors - I particularly like pairing it with something I'm already swapping, so Witherhoard or the new stasis GL, and I like extended mag on that one because Reconstruction makes the reload irrelevant; I have Tac Mag on the other one.
Oh yeah hatchling + Dragonfly sounds fun. Imagine if we could of got hatchling + recon I would of made that my top pick for add clearing. B&S is def the best if you are rotating through your loadout a ton.
@@AceInTheSpade - I was doing the breach activity and the final boss was the tormentor; I cackled like an absolute madman at how quickly the LMG with B&S shredded it. Almost felt like cheating. I don't know how well Hatchling & Dragonfly performs in the likes of a higher Nightfall or whatever, but it's a nice synergy with both wanting precision kills, then Dragonfly triggers the multi kill portion of Hatchling.
@Edgetarian15 I mean, if we're real loadouts, don't really matter in anything below a day 1 raid, grand master NF, or solo flawless dungeon run. Destiny is all about min maxing. You could do without, but for a lot of people, it's min maxing that makes the game fun.
This is perfect ad clear MG. I use this in Zenith encounter in Salvation’s Edge every time. Hatchling helps clearing ads and creating tangle which I combine with Collective Action.
Went with Reconstruction and Desperate Measures. Bait and Switch seems the most popular, but I'm not trying to be cycling through my weapons so often when doing general ad clear. More focused on abilities
Recon with bait and switch on my 1st crafted roll - I think I’ll craft a more fun ad clear roll soon after watching this video. Hatching and dragonfly with extended mag
I crafted 2, one for pvp being hatchling and dragonfly to maybe get a collat and another with hatchling and bait and switch for pve to do both crowd control and dps
Frenzy is good for a workehorse in Endgame content(GM, Mraids...) not being tied to kills is much more important there, as well as the "infinite" duration.
I get that, but even then, B&S is more damage, and no kills to proc. I'd default to that or target lock in GMs tbh. If you are using it on champions, especially. For add clear I still think DM is solid because the best way to proc it is woth ability kills to proc it then just go hame as it refreshes on kills.
I'm not sure if this applies to this gun, but I've hit an ammo cap on several machine guns using extended+backup mag. I'd give an example, but not online. I'd double check that extended+backup doesn't hit the gun's cap. If it does, appended is probably the better option (if it doesn't, then obviously it's up to you). That's all :).
Until we get some exotic strand heavies, we need good strand gear. Definitely recon for me, probably with dragonfly which I love on my old commemoration. Let's see what the recommendation is for the right column...
Bns is always better than target lock. Mgs arent dps options.they are used for ad clear and having a free 35% at all time is better than a around 10-20% based on how long you shoot a target for. Even at max capacity in dps target lock is worse than bns.
@panzerkitti1212 People use LMGs on tormentors and chunkier targets all the time which TL can proc on. I also dont mean just boss DPS. TL ramps up to 40% damage, and the average is about 25% overall. BNS isnt up all the time either its on a timer so you have to constantly reproc it. I myself prefer desperate measures, which imo fits the current sandbox of ability spam much better than B&S, which if you run out of ammo you can't proc and you can't refresh. DM I can keep up forever if I wanted to.
@@AceInTheSpade majority playerbase isn’t open to trying different things. Use what works for you, I use attrition orbs n dragonfly on mine and I love it. Community would have a lot more fun if people where open to variety
Pro Memorial is my Get Out Of Jail Free card in PVP. Got triangulated by enemy dweebs? Reverse Uno card that shit into a Triple Kill 😂😂😂 Love that gun.
Desperate Measures Trumps B&S, in my opinion. It's much easier to proc consistently, and you can keep it up forever as long as you keep getting kills. B&S has to be reprocced.
@@AceInTheSpade Eh, if the gun has One for All and someone insists that Frenzy is the better pick, I'm not going to listen lol. Precision Instrument too.
@CrunchBar-qe5fw I do think there are instances where frenzy is better because it does max out reload speed, which if you are using a low mag weapon, feels miles better. But typically, OFA is goated.
@@degaetano510 And? It's not double primary era, I'm not going to be using something else and then switch to a Frenzy procced primary. Every other damage perk in the game, including kill-required ones, has quicker activation criteria than Frenzy does.
Damn I hate that pale heart weapons design is 'half/half'. Ruins colour, I dont mind the faces on the side but this stupid two tone main colour is zzzz
This is not an upgrade to Hammerhead nor Commemoration. The lack of Killing Tally already puts in disadvantage since it has to rely on BnS for the same damage profile or Frenzy for half of that Meanwhile Hammerhead provides Killing Tally and Rampage, making the ammo economy of the weapon much better, and Commemoration provides an easy way to reload. Yeah there is the RPM of the weapon, but if RPM matters people would still be using Retrofit, when majority moved away the moment the bug was fixed. Nah this weapon is very niche and ends up being the players choice if they really need when they have Hammerhead and Commemoration on their vaults. I would argue that the closest LMG to those two monsters is Song of Ir Yut for melee builds since Recon + Sword Logic is a really good way to clear rooms and nuke priority targets.
Hard disagree. The higher RPM already puts its base DMG above commemoration and hammerhead. Perks like desperate measures can be procced even while the weapon is stowed and keeping up x2 and x3 is extremely easy to do, especially on prismatic. Killing tally requires weapon kills, and the moment you switch weapons, you lose the buff. Desperate Measures doesn't lose that buff when stowing or switching. Also, I'd argue DM better fits the sandbox playstyle as we're constantly switching between abilities and weapon kills and constantly rotating through our loadouts. That's just my personal take. I'm not saying Killing tally is bad. But for my builds and playstyle, I like Desperate Measures better because I'm constantly getting x2 and x3 all the time. Commemoration is definitely better if you are running void builds, though. The song of Ir Yut is great for melee builds because of the origin trait.
I've been using a Hammerhead with Rampage + Desperate Measures and it outperforms Killing Tally in my opinion, especially when I run it with Void Warlock, where Pro Memoria can also get Target Lock if you don't like Bait and Switch, which is a really good option outside of Killing Tally.
@@AceInTheSpade So I used D2Foundry and I did found interesting data: Commemoration with Killing Tally IS outperformed by Pro Memoria with Frenzy by a small margin: 25000 DPS vs 26000 DPS, so yeah it is an upgrade here. But that falls apart against Hammerhead since the roll with Rampage + Killing Tally completely outperforms any machine gun with astounding 33000 DPS vs 29000 from Pro Memoria with max Desperate Measures. And against all odds it’s not hard to get Hammerhead rolling with these two perks, same as it’s not hard to get it rolling with Desperate Measures. If you already have Commemoration, there isn’t much reason to upgrade to Pro Memoria unless you are a grenade build that can take advantage of Desperate Measures. If you still need a LMG Pro Memoria can be your option and you will not miss Commemoration. If you can deal with reload (hi Hunters) Hammerhead is the best option.
@@WrathNebula321 my issue with DM is that if you are running a build that depends on the healing made DM is a waste of a perk to use. You still can activate with melee but here is already a burden where I can even forget the perk exist with Killing Tally. Less maintenance
@Ace-ob9yk That's a super hyper specific example. Most builds can still benefit from DM greatly imo. As for double damage perks on LMGs I'm just not a fan personally. Once you have used one with something like Envious or Reconstruction it makes it really hard to have to go back to a smaller magazine and more reloading. Especially with the abysmal 4-5 seconding reloads, which is annoying in the heat if battle when you need the ammo pronto or you might die.
Let me know what you plan on crafting in the comments below!
I adore my recon + desperate measures combo
@notbateman4298 Yes, that's exactly what im crafting for general play.
im think to do 2 perks for more boss damage
@@Wolverine1992-z5m nice. 👌
I will say last season had a lmg of slice n hatchling
This weapon saved me from missing out on commemoration lol
It's definitely a great alternative for those who don't raid.
I don't even do the raid and this week and last I started solo doing the first chest in deep stone. Got a red border commemoration both times. Worth doing if want the guns without raising. Just sparrow thru it in a few minutes for secret chest and bam
@@chrisb.9083 don't you need to have done the raid for weapons to drop from the chests ?
@@x-notbad-xyes...you are right...in These chests are only Things drop which are all ready in your loot pool
Have commemoration (not crafted) thought hammerhead would get me off of it, didn’t expect to like this lmg more
I had no idea desperate measures procced without being equipped. Subbed
Yeah, you be surprised how many people misunderstand how the perk works. Also, thanks for the sub! ✌️😎
I crafted two of these.
One with Hatchling & Dragonfly, for the unique combo and add clear silliness.
One with Reconstruction & Bait and Switch for Tormentors - I particularly like pairing it with something I'm already swapping, so Witherhoard or the new stasis GL, and I like extended mag on that one because Reconstruction makes the reload irrelevant; I have Tac Mag on the other one.
Oh yeah hatchling + Dragonfly sounds fun. Imagine if we could of got hatchling + recon I would of made that my top pick for add clearing. B&S is def the best if you are rotating through your loadout a ton.
@@AceInTheSpade - I was doing the breach activity and the final boss was the tormentor; I cackled like an absolute madman at how quickly the LMG with B&S shredded it.
Almost felt like cheating.
I don't know how well Hatchling & Dragonfly performs in the likes of a higher Nightfall or whatever, but it's a nice synergy with both wanting precision kills, then Dragonfly triggers the multi kill portion of Hatchling.
@MGShadow1989 you can shred that guys health bar with a blue sidearm though
@@EreptileDysfunction - and? it's still amusing seeing how effective LMGs are against them.
@Edgetarian15 I mean, if we're real loadouts, don't really matter in anything below a day 1 raid, grand master NF, or solo flawless dungeon run. Destiny is all about min maxing. You could do without, but for a lot of people, it's min maxing that makes the game fun.
For my strand warlock went hatchling and desperate measures, love this thing
I got a reco / bait and switch drop and I really enjoy this machine gun
Nice! Yeah, it puts in work.
Same here. It slaps
On your point about demo on this weapon, I’d say it’s even better on a prismatic warlock with how often you have your grenade up to reload
Oh yeah, Demo is great on prismatic.
This is perfect ad clear MG. I use this in Zenith encounter in Salvation’s Edge every time. Hatchling helps clearing ads and creating tangle which I combine with Collective Action.
Nice. Yeah, I use it in the exact same encounter lol.
I crafted hatchling/dragonfly, its insane with euphony, threadlings everywhere. Pair it with a strand warlock setup and your golden.
Yeah, a lot of people have been mentioning that roll. I'll definitely have to try it out.
Did the master raid with this. Origin trait and artifact make it overcharged even when the surge isn’t strand
Nice. Sounds fun.
I wish i knew this was coming out before I spent hours farming hammerhead
I feel ya. Hammerhead is still great for void builds though.
Went with Reconstruction and Desperate Measures. Bait and Switch seems the most popular, but I'm not trying to be cycling through my weapons so often when doing general ad clear. More focused on abilities
100% with you on this. People underestimate how easy it is to proc and keep desperate measures x2 and x3 up consistently.
@@AceInTheSpadedesperate measures x3 also has the same dmg buff as bait and switch
Day 2 of the expansion i got a recon frenzy roll and that bad boy has been my highest light heavy for a whiiiile
I love this thing it hits hard with recon target lock
Indeed.
Recon with bait and switch on my 1st crafted roll - I think I’ll craft a more fun ad clear roll soon after watching this video. Hatching and dragonfly with extended mag
Nice! Hatchling + Demo definitely sounds like some fun Tom foolery.
I crafted 2, one for pvp being hatchling and dragonfly to maybe get a collat and another with hatchling and bait and switch for pve to do both crowd control and dps
Nice! Sounds like some fun rolls.
Frenzy is good for a workehorse in Endgame content(GM, Mraids...) not being tied to kills is much more important there, as well as the "infinite" duration.
I get that, but even then, B&S is more damage, and no kills to proc. I'd default to that or target lock in GMs tbh. If you are using it on champions, especially. For add clear I still think DM is solid because the best way to proc it is woth ability kills to proc it then just go hame as it refreshes on kills.
@@AceInTheSpadehonestly for me, I don’t really utilize bait and switch cause I often forget about it lol
@@thatoneguy1741 lol understandable in that case frenzy is def the best set and forget it perk.
yeah but 15% is pitiful damage
My only problem with this weapon is the very obstructive scope
True. It is pretty large.
I know LMG's are memed on for boss dps, but 3 of these can easily 1 phase Caiatl
@@cartho1103 oh wow good to know. 👍
Amazing, wasn't sure if i would craft it but after this 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼💪🏻
Oh yeah, it's definitely worth it. Glad to help! 😎✌️
amazing video as always!!!!
@@Flixcer1404 Thanks! 🙏😎
Good vid. Subbed
@@skuirrelTV Thanks. 🙏
I love reconstruction on this. I run it with the call and strand ammo finders
Same here.
nice vid, definitely going to go craft this
Thanks. Yeah, it's definitely worth it.
I built mine with reco and frenzy, is it worth swapping the frenzy perk with something else? I mainly use this thing for majors
Yeah, target lock or desperate measures of you are doing a lot of ability spam.
@@AceInTheSpade thanks, I think I’ll try desperate measures. That should work well with prismatic warlock
if you’re using reconstruction, what’s the benefit of appended mag over extended?
Extended mag only gives you 4 extra bullets over appended, but nerfs your reload. Which already feels extremely slow to begin with.
Why would you care about reload when you will never reload it anyway, 4 bullets without recon = 8 extra in a fully reconstructed mag@@AceInTheSpade
@@DerpsterIV That's a fair assessment.
I'm not sure if this applies to this gun, but I've hit an ammo cap on several machine guns using extended+backup mag. I'd give an example, but not online. I'd double check that extended+backup doesn't hit the gun's cap. If it does, appended is probably the better option (if it doesn't, then obviously it's up to you). That's all :).
This gun saved my marriage
I wouldn't doubt it.
Until we get some exotic strand heavies, we need good strand gear. Definitely recon for me, probably with dragonfly which I love on my old commemoration. Let's see what the recommendation is for the right column...
Agreed.
Marcato - 45 with enhanced Demo + Onslaught.. Thank me Later
What weapon mod?
I just use backup mag for even more bullets.
Demo Bait and switch also go hard.
@@No_Context_Thoughts I'm sure they do indeed.
Enhanced Hatchling and Dragonfly 👌
Sounds fun. 👍
Bns is always better than target lock. Mgs arent dps options.they are used for ad clear and having a free 35% at all time is better than a around 10-20% based on how long you shoot a target for. Even at max capacity in dps target lock is worse than bns.
@panzerkitti1212 People use LMGs on tormentors and chunkier targets all the time which TL can proc on. I also dont mean just boss DPS. TL ramps up to 40% damage, and the average is about 25% overall. BNS isnt up all the time either its on a timer so you have to constantly reproc it. I myself prefer desperate measures, which imo fits the current sandbox of ability spam much better than B&S, which if you run out of ammo you can't proc and you can't refresh. DM I can keep up forever if I wanted to.
@@AceInTheSpade majority playerbase isn’t open to trying different things. Use what works for you, I use attrition orbs n dragonfly on mine and I love it. Community would have a lot more fun if people where open to variety
@Haazitation oh definitely, I agree.
Pro Memorial is my Get Out Of Jail Free card in PVP. Got triangulated by enemy dweebs? Reverse Uno card that shit into a Triple Kill 😂😂😂 Love that gun.
Bet.
Strategist craft is glued to my GM invis hunter I carry people with.
Oh man, that does sound pog.
Bro said pog unironically@@AceInTheSpade
@@chewhakka7611 bro said bro unironically
This weapon is the new king of LMG's, rivalling Retrofit Escapade in DPS
Imagine not using recon/ bait and switch.
Desperate Measures Trumps B&S, in my opinion. It's much easier to proc consistently, and you can keep it up forever as long as you keep getting kills. B&S has to be reprocced.
Man, Frenzy is literally NEVER worth it lol. 15% damage buff and it takes SO MUCH time to activate.
I think it's good on primary weapons and typically is active all the time for me inside, actually, encounters. But on this weapon, it's very meh.
@@AceInTheSpade Eh, if the gun has One for All and someone insists that Frenzy is the better pick, I'm not going to listen lol. Precision Instrument too.
@CrunchBar-qe5fw I do think there are instances where frenzy is better because it does max out reload speed,
which if you are using a low mag weapon, feels miles better. But typically, OFA is goated.
Frenzy activates while stowed as long as your in combat
@@degaetano510 And? It's not double primary era, I'm not going to be using something else and then switch to a Frenzy procced primary.
Every other damage perk in the game, including kill-required ones, has quicker activation criteria than Frenzy does.
Quality content, drop a comment for engagements, you got this!
Thanks. I appreciate it! ❤️✌️😎
Damn I hate that pale heart weapons design is 'half/half'. Ruins colour, I dont mind the faces on the side but this stupid two tone main colour is zzzz
Lol. I feel ya.
I think the faces and hearts are dumb too
Banger
You say "with that said" way too much
Lol. Sorry a bad habit.
This is not an upgrade to Hammerhead nor Commemoration. The lack of Killing Tally already puts in disadvantage since it has to rely on BnS for the same damage profile or Frenzy for half of that
Meanwhile Hammerhead provides Killing Tally and Rampage, making the ammo economy of the weapon much better, and Commemoration provides an easy way to reload.
Yeah there is the RPM of the weapon, but if RPM matters people would still be using Retrofit, when majority moved away the moment the bug was fixed.
Nah this weapon is very niche and ends up being the players choice if they really need when they have Hammerhead and Commemoration on their vaults.
I would argue that the closest LMG to those two monsters is Song of Ir Yut for melee builds since Recon + Sword Logic is a really good way to clear rooms and nuke priority targets.
Hard disagree. The higher RPM already puts its base DMG above commemoration and hammerhead. Perks like desperate measures can be procced even while the weapon is stowed and keeping up x2 and x3 is extremely easy to do, especially on prismatic.
Killing tally requires weapon kills, and the moment you switch weapons, you lose the buff. Desperate Measures doesn't lose that buff when stowing or switching.
Also, I'd argue DM better fits the sandbox playstyle as we're constantly switching between abilities and weapon kills and constantly rotating through our loadouts.
That's just my personal take. I'm not saying Killing tally is bad. But for my builds and playstyle, I like Desperate Measures better because I'm constantly getting x2 and x3 all the time.
Commemoration is definitely better if you are running void builds, though. The song of Ir Yut is great for melee builds because of the origin trait.
I've been using a Hammerhead with Rampage + Desperate Measures and it outperforms Killing Tally in my opinion, especially when I run it with Void Warlock, where Pro Memoria can also get Target Lock if you don't like Bait and Switch, which is a really good option outside of Killing Tally.
@@AceInTheSpade So I used D2Foundry and I did found interesting data:
Commemoration with Killing Tally IS outperformed by Pro Memoria with Frenzy by a small margin: 25000 DPS vs 26000 DPS, so yeah it is an upgrade here. But that falls apart against Hammerhead since the roll with Rampage + Killing Tally completely outperforms any machine gun with astounding 33000 DPS vs 29000 from Pro Memoria with max Desperate Measures. And against all odds it’s not hard to get Hammerhead rolling with these two perks, same as it’s not hard to get it rolling with Desperate Measures.
If you already have Commemoration, there isn’t much reason to upgrade to Pro Memoria unless you are a grenade build that can take advantage of Desperate Measures. If you still need a LMG Pro Memoria can be your option and you will not miss Commemoration. If you can deal with reload (hi Hunters) Hammerhead is the best option.
@@WrathNebula321 my issue with DM is that if you are running a build that depends on the healing made DM is a waste of a perk to use. You still can activate with melee but here is already a burden where I can even forget the perk exist with Killing Tally. Less maintenance
@Ace-ob9yk That's a super hyper specific example. Most builds can still benefit from DM greatly imo.
As for double damage perks on LMGs I'm just not a fan personally. Once you have used one with something like Envious or Reconstruction it makes it really hard to have to go back to a smaller magazine and more reloading. Especially with the abysmal 4-5 seconding reloads, which is annoying in the heat if battle when you need the ammo pronto or you might die.
Very silly weapon
It is indeed silly fun.
Nice video. Ty
My pleasure. 🙏