Our pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it. We were about 5% off from getting it setup as SAIL PLANE, but it was getting so late, and I was running into a lot of challenges I couldn't fix "right" so Megan was pressuring me to just do the acro. I'm glad we did, it was WAY easier to setup, but still a sail plane would be so cool on this plane, especially as it has so much to offer. I want to play with this more when I get up to the IX14 or NX10... I'm gonna need the channels to do what I want ;)
@@BrianPhillipsRC I have followed your programming instructions but I cannot get the SAFE or AS3X to work ( I do get the double dance on power up). I think the problem maybe related to my transmitter Spektrum dx6 gen3 that apparently only allows 6 channels and it appears you need an unsigned channel for SAFE and AS3X. The bind/prog slot appears to be non-functional and does not show up as an available channel. Anyway, if you know a solution for this I would appreciate detailed instructions on how to fix it. Otherwise, it seems I cannot configure Crow since the ailerons will have to go back to the Y connector to free up a channel or am I missing something. Thanks for any help.
Just saw your reply while checking through "super-thanks"... As for the answer, which I fear is way past due now...you are correct...in order to do what you want to do, you will need additional channels, very unfortunately. Channels in no particular order... 1) Throttle 2) Elevator 3) Rudder 4) Aileron (OR Aileron Right) 5) Flaps (OR Aileron Left) 6) Mode - AS3X/SAFE With Inboard Flaps, you can just split the Ailerons, but then you'll be locked in AS3X or SAFE, and with your DX6, I don't think you can LOCK it in SAFE. This all being said, and especially since you've probably moved on, since I'm just noticing your comment some 5 months later (P.S. I rarely see replies to replies...sorry, just part of the way RUclips displays our comments)...you will probably love this plane just fine with ONLY flaps, and AS3X and SAFE.
Trying to setup this plane on a dx9 with a ar8360t. Do you have a step by step guide in written form I can read and follow along to give to my dad as he is not into watching long youtube videos or has the ability to keep up with the rate you go through the menus etc. Thanks for your videos you do a great job and I am amazed at how smooth and in control your flying is.
Hi Brian, at 1:02:41 you mention how you splice the voltage sensing wires into the ESC wiring, but I don't see it shown later on in the video. Any tips on this?
Electric sailplane pilots have crow brake on the throttle stick and motor on a switch for good reason. Try it and you'll never go back.. Fullly proportional crow brake is the only way to go and on an e-sailplane, we're always either fulll throttle or no throttle so throttle on a switch (preferably a momentary) works great
I respect your opinion, and have thought about it for years...we ALMOST had the SAIL PLANE working, but just a few small details were OFF about the setup - darn!
@@BrianPhillipsRC Yeah, I saw you struggled with setting it up as a sailplane on the spektrum radio. I don't fly spektrum so I have no idea how to do it on that radio. Electric sailplane setups can be some of the most complicated in RC. But for banging around the yard with a foamie, there's absoutley nothing wrong w/ how yours is done... Do you think that ESC would handle a 12x6 prop?.. Any chance you could put a wattmeter on it with the included 11x6?
Great video! I am a powered glider guy. My only question is you don't describe why you are setting the dual rate / Exp to the values you used. A little more explanation for some of the settings would be useful.
Very nice video. I have a REFLEX that I took out of an old plane and wondered if I could just match that up with an AR620 and still have some gyroscopic control. I realize I would have no telemetry but I could start out with what I have available and then change it out to something fancier later. Notsure about the Tower Hobbies ESC compatibility with the REFLEX v2 though.
If you want an external stabilizer, you could in fact, but you may need to reprogram the Reflex, and I can't tell you how to do this, since we've never done it YET. Also, you will not be able to make the flaps and ailerons do as much cool stuff, as we did, but you can get the stabilization and auto-leveling, if you wish.
The hole near the end of the wing Joiner is there, so that a small driver tool can be inserted in order to tighten it beyond finger tightening can provide...
love all of your RC videos thanks so much for showing how to put planes together and radio set up I’m gone a buy the future fms v3 version can I use the ar630 for the reflex
Might want to consider AR631 (should only be about 5 bucks more) - Also, you don't even need the AR631 if you're getting REFLEX V2 - then you can get the AR620, if you wish. Stabilizer will be in the Reflex V2 Futura bit.ly/3VMQbWr If you get the one with REFLEX, choose one... AR620 bit.ly/3z7WDO0 - Simple 6 Channel Air Rx with limited telemetry - No AS3X & SAFE AR6610T bit.ly/3z37ysk - More telemetry - No AS3X & SAFE If you get the TRUE PNP (without REFLEX), choose one... AR630 bit.ly/3zpdgVR - AS3X & SAFE with limited telemetry + INTERNAL Antenna AR631 bit.ly/3v0w3Fy - AS3X & SAFE with limited telemetry + EXTERNAL Antenna
Thank you for going through setup. There aren't a lot of videos where folks go through the setups. Suggestion: At around 1:10 you talk about how you can set it up so fast. Well, that's great for you, but someone like me coming back after 15 years with brand new gear needs to go through it a little slower. You set up way too fast on camera, which makes for a difficult tutorial to follow. I had to rewind dozens of times to figure out what you were doing. It was so confusing for D/R & Expo that I had to pause your video and watch someone else's video, but I still had issues figuring out what you were doing. Your videos are very long; perhaps you could dedicate some of that time to longer walk-throughs for those of us trying to follow. Perhaps you could list your control settings in your comments on the video. That way folks have a reference to go to. Thanks again for what you do.
Depends on if you want SPEED or soaring. I love the ASW28, but it's a slower sort of plane, than the SPORT style Conscendo. Conscendo Evo is also easier to setup given it's a BNF... Correct answer - BOTH ;) Conscendo Evo bit.ly/3cx8jm1 ASW28 bit.ly/3kjI1Yc
On my older dx8g2 , I have no crow setting under flap system. I have 2ail 1flap setup. Receiver is 8360t. Any way to mix up aileron on my flap switch? *think I figured it out. Mix on>Lail then adjust the amount and trigger off flap switch in crow position.
It's better in most ways. The Volantex takes a fair amount of mods to make it really fun to fly, BUT the Volantex isn't a bad plane, by any means...it's just that this Tower option has a longer wing, which means more lift, but also more drag, so kinda depends on what you're after. Also this Tower offering is just DONE out of the box, which to me, can't be over-stated. I don't like having to re-engineer a plane to make it "good", but the Volantex was pretty nice when I was all done with it.
Tower is 2m... Volantex has a few sizes, 1.4m, 1.6m&2.6m or some such thing...they had a middle wing extension part on one of their offerings. Not sure what they have right now...but Tower's is 2m bprc.me/TH_ASW28 ASW28 bit.ly/2VlLtBm | amzn.to/3A8D5bS Phoenix Evo bit.ly/3Q4gSU4 | amzn.to/3nX4okg
I getting some conflicting information from Tower. I am using an unlocked AR637TA in my plane and there are issues getting ASX3 to work (had to increase the gain) and the telemetry does not work. It worked for you using a AR637T, but they are claiming I need to upgrade to 45 amps the ESC for the telemetry to work. Makes no sense since a 40 amp comes with the plane. Is a new AR637 or better yet a AR8360T a potential solution?
I'd kill to be able to actually see your transmitter screen during the aileron servo travel setups around 1:24. Its a blur. Just one focused shot of the screen after setting.... All I know is either the top or bottom, or maybe both, got set to 125, on one or both ailerons.
At ruclips.net/video/uRN1iuyrT7s/видео.html - I could see it on my PC...it was regrettably blurry, but I was able to make out what I was seeing with a PAUSE, then stepping forward and back. Please give it another try at your convenience. Sorry about the focus issues.
@@BrianPhillipsRC I didn't realize youtube was auto-setting the resolution... went in and put it on 4K and I could make it out. Duh. Great video! Cheers!
I want to do that sooooo bad, but we got kicked off the slope I found that was PERFECT, since it was technically controlled by the Army Corp of Engineers, and they claim their land (that belongs to US) was a no drone zone...THEN, I got a speeding ticket when I left - LOL - it was a BAD day. The OTHER site we used to slope soar, is about 3.5 hours drive, so it's not an every day stop for me, but I'd LOVE to take this, my FMS ASW17 2.5m and FMX Fox 3m and just have one heck of a slope soaring afternoon!!!
Interesting to see a ‘tower hobbies’ branded plane. This bird looks weird. Like not even close to scale like the HK version is. Wing chord way too wide, fuse too short for scale, just looks like something dynam would release. For once hobby king bends tower over and does them dry lol. I bought the HK huge one and your early videos on it will be imperitave to watch when I get around to building it. That one is a good looking plane. This one is just weird looking compared to the looks of a real one
Did you mean RID (Remote ID) or were you thinking ADB-2 - not a requirement, plus RID doesn't keep anyone safe at all! There's no such system in place (yet)...just a wet dream of regulations and over-reach from the FAA. They haven't even made possible full compliance with RID, for a laundry list of good reasons, but won't get into them here, or publicly, since I don't generally "keep it clean" in public :) The Federal Government is not going to get more than a second here and there for free out of me. They have a database of compulsory information on all of us, and yet they can't even be bothered to communicate new "LAWS" they made up yesterday.
There is only one part that look as a ASW 28, that are the winglets. Wings are way to big. Fuselage has not the shape Waibel designed No retracteble gear Decals on a glider is not done. Not mine kind of stuff.
okay, did you see me driving them out of position by the way it was laying??? (I don't recall doing this)This is not a performance sail plane...it's a foamy. Foamies are usually a bit more forgiving than what you're flying, keep in mind...but yes, if you were to load the servos with the weight of the plane, it would be a poor idea.
I don't understand why people entertain the conversation of receivers and channels with Spektrum equipment... An ELRS radio with a single PWM board gives you 10 channels, add another board and get 20 channels for just a couple hundred bucks including the radio!... Why, why???
Hey Brian, some of this is very helpful and it's appreciated. However, when you zip through the setup features on the Transmitter at Mach 9 then no, it's not so helpful and even when one has to stop, backup and play it over and over again trying to see all the changes being made then its no so helpful. Then to go on and mention that you can set one up in minutes, again while zipping through some of the changes, ugh! Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate what you and the wife/camera crew do and it's very much appreciated but perhaps stop, take a breath and remember back when you were first learning to program these Spektrum radios, I am sure you did not just fly through them as you are doing now. Thanks..
Sorry it's so fast. This is a pretty basic plane, so if you want to follow along another similar model, OR change the playback speed to 0.5X or 0.25X (use the GEAR icon and you can change playback speed)...this might help.
@@BrianPhillipsRC Hey Brian, I understand and I finally managed to get'er done today. I just had to play it back many times on some areas in the setup. You and the film crew do a fantastic job and do appreciate it. So again, it's just me being old and slow, haha.. But.... There is always a but.. just remember some of us are just getting used to the new technology as in the NX10 transmitters compared to the older Hitech Eclipse 7 models. That's just showing my age now.. lol Thanks again...
Check out current Tower Hobbies Coupons here... bit.ly/3GYptWi
Hope you'll put values when you do your set up ?
Excellent Video CameraCrew & Brian. Really appreciate the detailed radio setup - especially CROW and Telemetry.
Our pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it. We were about 5% off from getting it setup as SAIL PLANE, but it was getting so late, and I was running into a lot of challenges I couldn't fix "right" so Megan was pressuring me to just do the acro. I'm glad we did, it was WAY easier to setup, but still a sail plane would be so cool on this plane, especially as it has so much to offer. I want to play with this more when I get up to the IX14 or NX10... I'm gonna need the channels to do what I want ;)
Again the most detailed information and footage on RUclips as you go through every possible setting or problem that might show up. Grtz from Belgium.
Thank you sincerely! We're so glad you're here with us, and glad we can help you out from time to time!
Thanks Brian! Purchased the ASW28 and a AR637T - my first ever ASW28! Got the plane waiting for the receiver! wooot!
You will LOVE it! Keep in mind, when weather is good, I'm gonna totally figure a way to slope soar this beauty! It's gonna be epic!!!
Thank you for your time and attention to detail on the ASW 28 video. So helpful! I am in the process of setting up mine right now.
Glad it was helpful! Love this ASW28!!! Comes out of the box better than most sail planes we've ever done!
Is it fair to say, funniest BrianPhilipsRC video ever?
The long format is innovative, and it works well for this deep dive.
Thanks! We're glad you enjoy it!
Thanks!
You are welcome! Thanks for your support!
@@BrianPhillipsRC I have followed your programming instructions but I cannot get the SAFE or AS3X to work ( I do get the double dance on power up). I think the problem maybe related to my transmitter Spektrum dx6 gen3 that apparently only allows 6 channels and it appears you need an unsigned channel for SAFE and AS3X. The bind/prog slot appears to be non-functional and does not show up as an available channel. Anyway, if you know a solution for this I would appreciate detailed instructions on how to fix it. Otherwise, it seems I cannot configure Crow since the ailerons will have to go back to the Y connector to free up a channel or am I missing something. Thanks for any help.
Just saw your reply while checking through "super-thanks"...
As for the answer, which I fear is way past due now...you are correct...in order to do what you want to do, you will need additional channels, very unfortunately.
Channels in no particular order...
1) Throttle
2) Elevator
3) Rudder
4) Aileron (OR Aileron Right)
5) Flaps (OR Aileron Left)
6) Mode - AS3X/SAFE
With Inboard Flaps, you can just split the Ailerons, but then you'll be locked in AS3X or SAFE, and with your DX6, I don't think you can LOCK it in SAFE.
This all being said, and especially since you've probably moved on, since I'm just noticing your comment some 5 months later (P.S. I rarely see replies to replies...sorry, just part of the way RUclips displays our comments)...you will probably love this plane just fine with ONLY flaps, and AS3X and SAFE.
Great job with this video. I am currently setting mine up. I keep it simple
Trying to setup this plane on a dx9 with a ar8360t. Do you have a step by step guide in written form I can read and follow along to give to my dad as he is not into watching long youtube videos or has the ability to keep up with the rate you go through the menus etc. Thanks for your videos you do a great job and I am amazed at how smooth and in control your flying is.
Hi Brian, at 1:02:41 you mention how you splice the voltage sensing wires into the ESC wiring, but I don't see it shown later on in the video. Any tips on this?
Saw how you did it in another video! ruclips.net/video/Qi7pAPBNIPY/видео.html
Electric sailplane pilots have crow brake on the throttle stick and motor on a switch for good reason. Try it and you'll never go back.. Fullly proportional crow brake is the only way to go and on an e-sailplane, we're always either fulll throttle or no throttle so throttle on a switch (preferably a momentary) works great
I respect your opinion, and have thought about it for years...we ALMOST had the SAIL PLANE working, but just a few small details were OFF about the setup - darn!
@@BrianPhillipsRC Yeah, I saw you struggled with setting it up as a sailplane on the spektrum radio. I don't fly spektrum so I have no idea how to do it on that radio. Electric sailplane setups can be some of the most complicated in RC. But for banging around the yard with a foamie, there's absoutley nothing wrong w/ how yours is done... Do you think that ESC would handle a 12x6 prop?.. Any chance you could put a wattmeter on it with the included 11x6?
Great video! I am a powered glider guy. My only question is you don't describe why you are setting the dual rate / Exp to the values you used. A little more explanation for some of the settings would be useful.
Very nice video. I have a REFLEX that I took out of an old plane and wondered if I could just match that up with an AR620 and still have some gyroscopic control. I realize I would have no telemetry but I could start out with what I have available and then change it out to something fancier later. Notsure about the Tower Hobbies ESC compatibility with the REFLEX v2 though.
If you want an external stabilizer, you could in fact, but you may need to reprogram the Reflex, and I can't tell you how to do this, since we've never done it YET.
Also, you will not be able to make the flaps and ailerons do as much cool stuff, as we did, but you can get the stabilization and auto-leveling, if you wish.
I really like how detailed you do these videos. Tower Hobbies should just put a link to this for their instructions
Thanks, and we agree ;)
The hole near the end of the wing Joiner is there, so that a small driver tool can be inserted in order to tighten it beyond finger tightening can provide...
Awesome video. Can you tell me where to get the Stainless Stand shown in this video? Thanks
love all of your RC videos thanks so much for showing how to put planes together and radio set up I’m gone a buy the future fms v3 version can I use the ar630 for the reflex
Might want to consider AR631 (should only be about 5 bucks more) - Also, you don't even need the AR631 if you're getting REFLEX V2 - then you can get the AR620, if you wish. Stabilizer will be in the Reflex V2
Futura bit.ly/3VMQbWr
If you get the one with REFLEX, choose one...
AR620 bit.ly/3z7WDO0 - Simple 6 Channel Air Rx with limited telemetry - No AS3X & SAFE
AR6610T bit.ly/3z37ysk - More telemetry - No AS3X & SAFE
If you get the TRUE PNP (without REFLEX), choose one...
AR630 bit.ly/3zpdgVR - AS3X & SAFE with limited telemetry + INTERNAL Antenna
AR631 bit.ly/3v0w3Fy - AS3X & SAFE with limited telemetry + EXTERNAL Antenna
Thanks for the setup video great but how do you set up Crow on a DX8 G2?
Thank you for going through setup. There aren't a lot of videos where folks go through the setups. Suggestion: At around 1:10 you talk about how you can set it up so fast. Well, that's great for you, but someone like me coming back after 15 years with brand new gear needs to go through it a little slower. You set up way too fast on camera, which makes for a difficult tutorial to follow. I had to rewind dozens of times to figure out what you were doing. It was so confusing for D/R & Expo that I had to pause your video and watch someone else's video, but I still had issues figuring out what you were doing. Your videos are very long; perhaps you could dedicate some of that time to longer walk-throughs for those of us trying to follow.
Perhaps you could list your control settings in your comments on the video. That way folks have a reference to go to.
Thanks again for what you do.
I still have to asw28 that you got me turned onto from years ago this one is a much better model. Like an ASW 17
Appreciate the info. Can you AR620 6 channel? I believe Tower Hobbies said it is an optional. Please advise. Thanks!
I just looked online forvthis model an found the volantex asw 28. It looks the same is it? Thankyou, mark
Nice one. . . . . . Quick one ? This or a consecendo?
Depends on if you want SPEED or soaring. I love the ASW28, but it's a slower sort of plane, than the SPORT style Conscendo. Conscendo Evo is also easier to setup given it's a BNF... Correct answer - BOTH ;)
Conscendo Evo bit.ly/3cx8jm1
ASW28 bit.ly/3kjI1Yc
On my older dx8g2 , I have no crow setting under flap system. I have 2ail 1flap setup. Receiver is 8360t. Any way to mix up aileron on my flap switch? *think I figured it out. Mix on>Lail then adjust the amount and trigger off flap switch in crow position.
Hi, may I know how this one compares to the lanyu volantex 2.6m asw28 in terms of gliding and floating capabilities? 😀
It's better in most ways. The Volantex takes a fair amount of mods to make it really fun to fly, BUT the Volantex isn't a bad plane, by any means...it's just that this Tower option has a longer wing, which means more lift, but also more drag, so kinda depends on what you're after. Also this Tower offering is just DONE out of the box, which to me, can't be over-stated. I don't like having to re-engineer a plane to make it "good", but the Volantex was pretty nice when I was all done with it.
@BrianPhillipsRC ok! thanks for providing such a detailed explanation👍!
Wing root design reminds me of the FMS ASW 17 except without the crappy quick releases.
Pay attention FMS!
My ASW wings snapped when I did a mild dive. Those quick releases are plastic junk
Is the tower version bigger than the volantex. I got wing tips from tower n they were too big for my volantex
Tower is 2m... Volantex has a few sizes, 1.4m, 1.6m&2.6m or some such thing...they had a middle wing extension part on one of their offerings. Not sure what they have right now...but Tower's is 2m
bprc.me/TH_ASW28
ASW28 bit.ly/2VlLtBm | amzn.to/3A8D5bS
Phoenix Evo bit.ly/3Q4gSU4 | amzn.to/3nX4okg
@@BrianPhillipsRC that's it, i got the 2.6, used gorilla super glue and one of em fell off midflight
I getting some conflicting information from Tower. I am using an unlocked AR637TA in my plane and there are issues getting ASX3 to work (had to increase the gain) and the telemetry does not work. It worked for you using a AR637T, but they are claiming I need to upgrade to 45 amps the ESC for the telemetry to work. Makes no sense since a 40 amp comes with the plane. Is a new AR637 or better yet a AR8360T a potential solution?
. Please publish all the settings......
I'd kill to be able to actually see your transmitter screen during the aileron servo travel setups around 1:24. Its a blur. Just one focused shot of the screen after setting.... All I know is either the top or bottom, or maybe both, got set to 125, on one or both ailerons.
At ruclips.net/video/uRN1iuyrT7s/видео.html - I could see it on my PC...it was regrettably blurry, but I was able to make out what I was seeing with a PAUSE, then stepping forward and back. Please give it another try at your convenience. Sorry about the focus issues.
@@BrianPhillipsRC I didn't realize youtube was auto-setting the resolution... went in and put it on 4K and I could make it out. Duh. Great video! Cheers!
Camera crew has nice hands.
I agree ;)
Man u da man great info
Thanks!
Excellent video, Brian. Do you like this sailplane better than the Phoenix 2m V2 ?
I bought it last night using your link. Decent discount, too.
I’m suffering from AAS (airplane acquisition syndrome)
Another one!
NIIICE 👌
Build?
I wish the decals were not installed, or at least the TH decals!
Slope that machine! I bet it slopes good.
I want to do that sooooo bad, but we got kicked off the slope I found that was PERFECT, since it was technically controlled by the Army Corp of Engineers, and they claim their land (that belongs to US) was a no drone zone...THEN, I got a speeding ticket when I left - LOL - it was a BAD day.
The OTHER site we used to slope soar, is about 3.5 hours drive, so it's not an every day stop for me, but I'd LOVE to take this, my FMS ASW17 2.5m and FMX Fox 3m and just have one heck of a slope soaring afternoon!!!
Interesting to see a ‘tower hobbies’ branded plane. This bird looks weird. Like not even close to scale like the HK version is. Wing chord way too wide, fuse too short for scale, just looks like something dynam would release. For once hobby king bends tower over and does them dry lol. I bought the HK huge one and your early videos on it will be imperitave to watch when I get around to building it. That one is a good looking plane. This one is just weird looking compared to the looks of a real one
still need RFID for safe flight near full scale aircraft
Did you mean RID (Remote ID) or were you thinking ADB-2 - not a requirement, plus RID doesn't keep anyone safe at all! There's no such system in place (yet)...just a wet dream of regulations and over-reach from the FAA. They haven't even made possible full compliance with RID, for a laundry list of good reasons, but won't get into them here, or publicly, since I don't generally "keep it clean" in public :) The Federal Government is not going to get more than a second here and there for free out of me. They have a database of compulsory information on all of us, and yet they can't even be bothered to communicate new "LAWS" they made up yesterday.
Class G airspace ought to be a FRIA automatically.
There is only one part that look as a ASW 28, that are the winglets.
Wings are way to big.
Fuselage has not the shape Waibel designed
No retracteble gear
Decals on a glider is not done.
Not mine kind of stuff.
Yeah the winglets are kind of weird shape
PS it was a pre-release so that's why the jackals weren't done properly
The way you use the stand is very dangerous for the flap servos!
okay, did you see me driving them out of position by the way it was laying??? (I don't recall doing this)This is not a performance sail plane...it's a foamy. Foamies are usually a bit more forgiving than what you're flying, keep in mind...but yes, if you were to load the servos with the weight of the plane, it would be a poor idea.
😀
I don't understand why people entertain the conversation of receivers and channels with Spektrum equipment... An ELRS radio with a single PWM board gives you 10 channels, add another board and get 20 channels for just a couple hundred bucks including the radio!... Why, why???
Hey Brian, some of this is very helpful and it's appreciated. However, when you zip through the setup features on the Transmitter at Mach 9 then no, it's not so helpful and even when one has to stop, backup and play it over and over again trying to see all the changes being made then its no so helpful. Then to go on and mention that you can set one up in minutes, again while zipping through some of the changes, ugh! Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate what you and the wife/camera crew do and it's very much appreciated but perhaps stop, take a breath and remember back when you were first learning to program these Spektrum radios, I am sure you did not just fly through them as you are doing now. Thanks..
Sorry it's so fast. This is a pretty basic plane, so if you want to follow along another similar model, OR change the playback speed to 0.5X or 0.25X (use the GEAR icon and you can change playback speed)...this might help.
@@BrianPhillipsRC Hey Brian, I understand and I finally managed to get'er done today. I just had to play it back many times on some areas in the setup. You and the film crew do a fantastic job and do appreciate it. So again, it's just me being old and slow, haha.. But.... There is always a but.. just remember some of us are just getting used to the new technology as in the NX10 transmitters compared to the older Hitech Eclipse 7 models. That's just showing my age now.. lol
Thanks again...
Following rules there's nobody out there to enforce those rules. LOL