1. i don't see that as a bad thing. 2. maybe due to them ebbing the current recent supers ( until beyond light ) they game was kinda designed around them.
The forsaken subclass branches are overall better than the year 1 stuff. The devs seemed to lean into the idea of the forsaken subclasses having a gameplay loop. The best reworks of the year 1 branches adopted that philosophy.
Definitely agree. Even the worst among them (Fission Warlock) still has great gameplay, it's just that the class' effectiveness has been gutted for the sake of PvP balance.
There’s actually a couple of hidden perks on bottom path gunslinger regarding the knife. Any kill with the weighted throwing knife instantly grant a good amount of bonus super energy. This is on top of the increased super regeneration from practice makes perfect. Additionally, kills with the throwing knife while using golden gun increases the duration of golden gun.
Yeah wish it had an actual chain ascetic too imagine getting a precision kill and then faintly hearing rattling chains as your weapons are wreathed in them. Then it could give you a precision damage buff?
Didn’t the mention in the golden gun update knock em down doesn’t stack on night hawk only the traditional 3 shots get the buff. That’s what the original notes mentioned but idk if something has happened along the way
As you can tell by my profile picture, I'm a Gunslinger, so I have a horse in this race! Let me tell you what I think. I see what you mean with Outlaw's Chains of Woe passive. I think that definitely needs a rework. I think reload speed would be fine if it was on Sentinel Defensive Strike/Turn the Tide levels of speed. I get jealous seeing Sentinels reload a shotgun after punching something. If they were to rework it entirely, I'd be cool with a melee and grenade cool down reduction when Chains of Woe is active. I disagree with your statement about Six Shooter. It's probably the one of the best and fastest add clears in the game, and seriously fun to just disintegrate entire rooms full of adds. Any activity that's heavy on adds with no bosses, Outlaw is your subclass. For example, bottom tree is the go-to for Taniks and Atraks in the DSC, but Outlaw truly outshines Sharpshooter in the first and third encounters of that raid. Honestly, Six Shooter really isn't that bad. In fact, you think the Six Shooter sucks? Try using the Sharpshooter Goldie *without* Nighthawk.. I think Outlaw is just missing a dedicated exotic. I think that would go a long way to make it more popular for PvE. Or even retrofit Nighthawk to work with Outlaw somehow, similar to how Bungie fixed Rig to work with Quiver Nightstalker a ways back. But with all that said, Outlaw is the best Gunslinger tree for PvP. I guess it can't do it all 🤷. I mean c'mon, not every subclass can be Revenant.
The Assassin's cowl works really well with this subclass. I know it's not exclusive to this subclass but with both bottom tree and middle tree you can get alot of invis from your knives, fixing the problem of survivability
Juuuuust gonna have to say I honestly like outlaw. Don't ask me why but it feels good to me. Sharpshooter is just clunk to me and thousand cuts is insanity. But i don't know why but outlaw sits just fine with me.
Of the three classes, I'm probably least qualified to talk about the Hunters. And anything I could say, you or other comments have already pointed out. But my brother is a pretty die-hard Hunter main, so I do have a few potential suggestions. The rework to the Way of the Sharpshooter made it into a solid subclass tree built around precision damage as its main gameplay gimmick, giving it a solid mechanical base to match its aesthetic. Without completely reworking the subclasses, the only thing I can pose for Sharpshooter is some new PvE oriented exotics. I'm curious as to how strong the effects of the upcoming Beyond Light exotic "Athrys's Embrace" will be. I've seen some weird Blade Barrage behavior while observing my brother's gameplay. Namely, I've seen it propel Ultras straight upward and do minimal damage. I wouldn't be opposed to Bungie taking another pass at the way the damage is distributed, as it is rather strange right now. Otherwise, I see nothing else particularly wrong about this whirling firestorm of a Hunter. Now Outlaw on the other hand... I've been saying this tree has been a mess since about three months into D2. I thought it was okay back in Beta but on further consideration, I have since retracted that opinion. Way of the Outlaw essentially suffers from the same problems as the Warlocks Attunement of Flame; two Super perks, underwhelming melee, and a utility perk that doesn't feed a gameplay loop. Outlaw's neutral game perks and super don't fit a singular theme. Sharpshooter is about landing precision hits building up to a precision super. Thousand Cuts is built around chucking out burn inflicting knives with a mutli-hitting super to match its namesake. But what does an explosive knife and fan-hammered fire pistol have in common thematically? Best as I can tell, the Outlaw should probably be the Hunter option for spamming explosives. First things first, Deadshot should be an intrinsic part of Six-Shooter. It serves no purpose on its own. Second, I think Six-Shooter could probably do with another effect to make it a better Add-Clearing option. One idea I've seen floating around for a long time is to give it the "Combustion" effect from D1, which would cause enemies killed by Golden Gun to explode. If nothing else, it would push the Outlaw super to be closer to the melee ability (ie. Explosions!). And third, it needs SOME kind of recursive effect or persistent buff like the up-to-date trees. Chains of Woe is handy, but does not a neutral game make. Going back to the explosives expert idea, giving them some way to get back their grenade and/or melee would be worth pursuing. I'm not sure what the exact method should be, but the notion of them repeatedly chucking bombs at their enemies amuses me.
The Outlaw makes me sad. It's definitely supposed to be an explosives expert so golden gun kills causing enemies to explode (kind-of like sunshot) would be dope. I always felt like this subclass should have some kind of innate dragonfly effect attached to Chains of Woe (precision kills make enemies explode and reduce the cooldown of your grenade and melee by X%. X% increases as chains of woe stacks increase). That'd be something totally unique and super effective for an explosives expert. #Dreams p.s. two super perks on one branch need to be removed a.s.a.p.
I don't play the class title "Gunslinger" to throw knives. Way of 1000 Cuts may be good in game, but I don't think it meshes well with the feel of the subclass.
I think that athrys makes bottom tree an s tier, it dramatically lowers the ceiling for knife, at least that I've both seen and heard, still cant get it to drop...
If I had a tier list, I feel like 1000 cuts and sharpshooter should be reversed. I mean 1000 cuts has a really well crafted neutral that lets you throw abilities left and right but having a pocket god killer is much more exciting. Just knowing that you have it feels good. I mean, just look at the applications, whenever I run legend and master lost sectors I use Nighthawk and straight up oneshot the boss. It saves me so much time. It feels a bit weird that 1000 cuts is a higher tier. I like judging the subclasses by their super rather than by the neutral play. That being said, in regular stuff 1000cuts is indeed more FUN
Really surprised about the way of the outlaw placement. I would've put it in D or C tier. The super is 6 shot and stuff because of pvp. The spammy, easy to hit shots is very strong for pvp but for pve its not very strong. Besides that I agree with every placement so far, especially the code of the commander subclass placement (love that subclass) and I am looking forward to the nightstalker one.
Ok but the fact you didn’t mention Assassin’s Cowl for The Way Of A Thousand Cuts is criminal. You get instant health as well as health regen and invisibility, this alone would make it S+ for me. Also Way of the Sharpshooter isn’t terribly good, but it’s super alone can carry entire boss encounters for teammates, so I’d place it as a A+ at least.
Woah. Didn’t expect the F tier rating for way of the outlaw. Seems like you’re really undervaluing it’s super’s room clear potential + synergy with ahamkara’s spine. Definitely lower than the other two but f-tier seems incredibly harsh
I think you might be right. I could have probably given it a D if I'm honest, but the fact that its easier to clear a room with tickle fingers vs 6-shooter golden gun didn't help my decision at the time lol.
@@iBluairJgR I'm certainly not a big Hunter player, but I'd agree with either D or F-tier. The Way of the Outlaw really reminds me of Sunbreaker's Code of the Fire-Forged: A moderately-powerful melee, a reload-speed buff, and perks to increase the super's add-clear power. While the super is powerful, the class has no real way to build up that super, unlike Way of the Sharpshooter or Thousand Cuts.
Dude, I love ur content, but I find ur use of the Victorian silver hawk ornament disturbing lol. Aesthetically(subjectively) speaking, the new Hrafnagud ornament is seeeexxxy. Especially since it gives u a 3rd eye that glows. Give me the combustion man look erryday. (Although it’s hard to justify taking off YAS)
Hunter's are generally considered to be the 'best' pvp class, so I'm curious to see how good it is in pve. If it's on par with the other classes, it may be the best overall class. I also found it interesting that hunters have better melees than warlocks...
Yeahh, warlocks got the short end of the stick with a lot of melee abilities. Most of the warlock melee's would be fine if they had their damage on par with the different throwing knives though (Celestial Fire is basically a worse version of Knife Trick). For hunter in PvE, they're definitely at least on par with the other two classes but I've never felt like they outclass the others. They fill more of a traditional DPS role though. That's probably why they're so popular.
i remember everytime i saw a random using way of the outlaw i look at them and would pull out my celestial night hawk and bottom tree watch them waste all 6 shots on a single boss only for me to pop my golden and one tap it ngl everytime i see outlaw in a NF im all like why Just why
@@iBluairJgR Yeah I agree When they decided to Buff the solar subclass I was really hoping way of the outlaw get a buff as well but It got the explosive knife instead
Which of the knife boi's is the best boi? Watch and find out! ►Missed the first episode? ruclips.net/video/Vf_jhl3b2Bc/видео.html ►Want to watch some old, behind the scenes stuff? ruclips.net/p/PL0GyXGSNsQ2xYYitlIBxCgN057GATGCBZ
Rofl. If you held a gun to my head and said pick 6-shooter or Nova Warp, I'd pick nova warp. It can pass for decent with Nezarec's Sin and Dark Matter. And its super will at least one-shot a bunch of thrall without me having to aim lol.
Nothing is worse than having celestial nighthawk and shooting a boss just to have it say immune
Ooo whacha saaaa aaaaay.
or miss it
Same with top tree you pop it and whoops you do it too early or late and the boss is immune.
Noticing a theme with the Forsaken Subclasses...
1. i don't see that as a bad thing. 2. maybe due to them ebbing the current recent supers ( until beyond light ) they game was kinda designed around them.
@@lc5957 didn't say it was a bad thing. Just pointing out a trend
The forsaken subclass branches are overall better than the year 1 stuff. The devs seemed to lean into the idea of the forsaken subclasses having a gameplay loop. The best reworks of the year 1 branches adopted that philosophy.
Definitely agree. Even the worst among them (Fission Warlock) still has great gameplay, it's just that the class' effectiveness has been gutted for the sake of PvP balance.
That’s why it sucks because I’m free to play:/ this game is pay to win
There’s actually a couple of hidden perks on bottom path gunslinger regarding the knife. Any kill with the weighted throwing knife instantly grant a good amount of bonus super energy. This is on top of the increased super regeneration from practice makes perfect.
Additionally, kills with the throwing knife while using golden gun increases the duration of golden gun.
I... didn't know the last bit... I just deleted stuff...
They really need to look at way of the outlaw again. Chains of woe is undertuned imo and deadshot is a dead talent.
100% this. Based on some of the updates they've done in the past, they have all the groundwork for a great way of the outlaw.
@@iBluairJgR wait really? i haven't realized anything
Yeah wish it had an actual chain ascetic too imagine getting a precision kill and then faintly hearing rattling chains as your weapons are wreathed in them. Then it could give you a precision damage buff?
Didn’t the mention in the golden gun update knock em down doesn’t stack on night hawk only the traditional 3 shots get the buff. That’s what the original notes mentioned but idk if something has happened along the way
You are correct
Holy shit, that knife trick multi at 8:38
I KNOW RIGHT?!?! And without the HUD?!?!?! Perfection.
As you can tell by my profile picture, I'm a Gunslinger, so I have a horse in this race! Let me tell you what I think.
I see what you mean with Outlaw's Chains of Woe passive. I think that definitely needs a rework. I think reload speed would be fine if it was on Sentinel Defensive Strike/Turn the Tide levels of speed. I get jealous seeing Sentinels reload a shotgun after punching something. If they were to rework it entirely, I'd be cool with a melee and grenade cool down reduction when Chains of Woe is active.
I disagree with your statement about Six Shooter. It's probably the one of the best and fastest add clears in the game, and seriously fun to just disintegrate entire rooms full of adds. Any activity that's heavy on adds with no bosses, Outlaw is your subclass. For example, bottom tree is the go-to for Taniks and Atraks in the DSC, but Outlaw truly outshines Sharpshooter in the first and third encounters of that raid. Honestly, Six Shooter really isn't that bad. In fact, you think the Six Shooter sucks? Try using the Sharpshooter Goldie *without* Nighthawk..
I think Outlaw is just missing a dedicated exotic. I think that would go a long way to make it more popular for PvE. Or even retrofit Nighthawk to work with Outlaw somehow, similar to how Bungie fixed Rig to work with Quiver Nightstalker a ways back.
But with all that said, Outlaw is the best Gunslinger tree for PvP. I guess it can't do it all 🤷. I mean c'mon, not every subclass can be Revenant.
Always look forward to these tier list, can’t wait for you to go over stasis!
Same. I'm really hype to see how the stasis classes compare to the classics.
The Assassin's cowl works really well with this subclass. I know it's not exclusive to this subclass but with both bottom tree and middle tree you can get alot of invis from your knives, fixing the problem of survivability
Juuuuust gonna have to say I honestly like outlaw. Don't ask me why but it feels good to me. Sharpshooter is just clunk to me and thousand cuts is insanity.
But i don't know why but outlaw sits just fine with me.
Of the three classes, I'm probably least qualified to talk about the Hunters. And anything I could say, you or other comments have already pointed out. But my brother is a pretty die-hard Hunter main, so I do have a few potential suggestions.
The rework to the Way of the Sharpshooter made it into a solid subclass tree built around precision damage as its main gameplay gimmick, giving it a solid mechanical base to match its aesthetic. Without completely reworking the subclasses, the only thing I can pose for Sharpshooter is some new PvE oriented exotics. I'm curious as to how strong the effects of the upcoming Beyond Light exotic "Athrys's Embrace" will be.
I've seen some weird Blade Barrage behavior while observing my brother's gameplay. Namely, I've seen it propel Ultras straight upward and do minimal damage. I wouldn't be opposed to Bungie taking another pass at the way the damage is distributed, as it is rather strange right now. Otherwise, I see nothing else particularly wrong about this whirling firestorm of a Hunter.
Now Outlaw on the other hand... I've been saying this tree has been a mess since about three months into D2. I thought it was okay back in Beta but on further consideration, I have since retracted that opinion. Way of the Outlaw essentially suffers from the same problems as the Warlocks Attunement of Flame; two Super perks, underwhelming melee, and a utility perk that doesn't feed a gameplay loop. Outlaw's neutral game perks and super don't fit a singular theme. Sharpshooter is about landing precision hits building up to a precision super. Thousand Cuts is built around chucking out burn inflicting knives with a mutli-hitting super to match its namesake. But what does an explosive knife and fan-hammered fire pistol have in common thematically? Best as I can tell, the Outlaw should probably be the Hunter option for spamming explosives.
First things first, Deadshot should be an intrinsic part of Six-Shooter. It serves no purpose on its own. Second, I think Six-Shooter could probably do with another effect to make it a better Add-Clearing option. One idea I've seen floating around for a long time is to give it the "Combustion" effect from D1, which would cause enemies killed by Golden Gun to explode. If nothing else, it would push the Outlaw super to be closer to the melee ability (ie. Explosions!). And third, it needs SOME kind of recursive effect or persistent buff like the up-to-date trees. Chains of Woe is handy, but does not a neutral game make. Going back to the explosives expert idea, giving them some way to get back their grenade and/or melee would be worth pursuing. I'm not sure what the exact method should be, but the notion of them repeatedly chucking bombs at their enemies amuses me.
The Outlaw makes me sad. It's definitely supposed to be an explosives expert so golden gun kills causing enemies to explode (kind-of like sunshot) would be dope. I always felt like this subclass should have some kind of innate dragonfly effect attached to Chains of Woe (precision kills make enemies explode and reduce the cooldown of your grenade and melee by X%. X% increases as chains of woe stacks increase). That'd be something totally unique and super effective for an explosives expert. #Dreams
p.s. two super perks on one branch need to be removed a.s.a.p.
Always a huge fan of your destiny content! Been around since Titanfall 2 but man, your destiny stuff is so masterfully done :D
Nice dude
you could try using sharpshooter and outlaw with young ahamkara's spine, giving you a grenade combat loop
way of a thousnd cuts was so good with last season artifact, you could permnently stun a gambit boss from 100 - 0 with just your melee .
melee wellmaker + well of life gives way of a thousand cuts good sustain
Don’t think I didn’t see that awesome translation at 12:58 😏
I don't play the class title "Gunslinger" to throw knives. Way of 1000 Cuts may be good in game, but I don't think it meshes well with the feel of the subclass.
I think that athrys makes bottom tree an s tier, it dramatically lowers the ceiling for knife, at least that I've both seen and heard, still cant get it to drop...
If I had a tier list, I feel like 1000 cuts and sharpshooter should be reversed. I mean 1000 cuts has a really well crafted neutral that lets you throw abilities left and right but having a pocket god killer is much more exciting. Just knowing that you have it feels good. I mean, just look at the applications, whenever I run legend and master lost sectors I use Nighthawk and straight up oneshot the boss. It saves me so much time. It feels a bit weird that 1000 cuts is a higher tier. I like judging the subclasses by their super rather than by the neutral play. That being said, in regular stuff 1000cuts is indeed more FUN
12:57 is a tasty edit mmmmmmmm
There's gonna be a new throwing knife exotic in season 12. I'm curious to find out how impactful it'll be.
My guess is: it'll be mediocre in PvE. I'd love to be wrong though.
@@iBluairJgR welp. It’s strong as hell 😂
Nice one man. Cheers.
Thanks and cheers to you too!!
BEST 👏 SUB 👏 CLASS 👏
Knife trick all day erryday
Do you think you could do this with the stasis subclasses?
Yes.
Really surprised about the way of the outlaw placement. I would've put it in D or C tier. The super is 6 shot and stuff because of pvp. The spammy, easy to hit shots is very strong for pvp but for pve its not very strong. Besides that I agree with every placement so far, especially the code of the commander subclass placement (love that subclass) and I am looking forward to the nightstalker one.
This series is specifically pve only.
Ok but the fact you didn’t mention Assassin’s Cowl for The Way Of A Thousand Cuts is criminal. You get instant health as well as health regen and invisibility, this alone would make it S+ for me. Also Way of the Sharpshooter isn’t terribly good, but it’s super alone can carry entire boss encounters for teammates, so I’d place it as a A+ at least.
Woah. Didn’t expect the F tier rating for way of the outlaw. Seems like you’re really undervaluing it’s super’s room clear potential + synergy with ahamkara’s spine. Definitely lower than the other two but f-tier seems incredibly harsh
I think you might be right. I could have probably given it a D if I'm honest, but the fact that its easier to clear a room with tickle fingers vs 6-shooter golden gun didn't help my decision at the time lol.
@@iBluairJgR I'm certainly not a big Hunter player, but I'd agree with either D or F-tier. The Way of the Outlaw really reminds me of Sunbreaker's Code of the Fire-Forged: A moderately-powerful melee, a reload-speed buff, and perks to increase the super's add-clear power. While the super is powerful, the class has no real way to build up that super, unlike Way of the Sharpshooter or Thousand Cuts.
Dude, I love ur content, but I find ur use of the Victorian silver hawk ornament disturbing lol. Aesthetically(subjectively) speaking, the new Hrafnagud ornament is seeeexxxy. Especially since it gives u a 3rd eye that glows. Give me the combustion man look erryday. (Although it’s hard to justify taking off YAS)
LOL!!!! I love the silverhawk partly because so many people think its ugly.
p.s. glad you're enjoying the content
Love these videos man you underrated
And they love you too
Do you plan on doing something like these videos for when we get access to Stasis? Love your videos dude.
Yeah 100% I'm doing stuff for stasis. This monday is gona be the Nightstalker then Arc Strider. From there, its gona be a bunch of new stuff.
Hunter's are generally considered to be the 'best' pvp class, so I'm curious to see how good it is in pve. If it's on par with the other classes, it may be the best overall class. I also found it interesting that hunters have better melees than warlocks...
Yeahh, warlocks got the short end of the stick with a lot of melee abilities. Most of the warlock melee's would be fine if they had their damage on par with the different throwing knives though (Celestial Fire is basically a worse version of Knife Trick).
For hunter in PvE, they're definitely at least on par with the other two classes but I've never felt like they outclass the others. They fill more of a traditional DPS role though. That's probably why they're so popular.
i remember everytime i saw a random using way of the outlaw i look at them and would pull out my celestial night hawk and bottom tree watch them waste all 6 shots on a single boss only for me to pop my golden and one tap it ngl everytime i see outlaw in a NF im all like why Just why
It's a shame really. Honestly, Six shooter golden gun needs something like 24 shots to be a good choice lol.
@@iBluairJgR Yeah I agree When they decided to Buff the solar subclass I was really hoping way of the outlaw get a buff as well but It got the explosive knife instead
As usual, awesome video!
Thanks m8
Which of the knife boi's is the best boi? Watch and find out!
►Missed the first episode? ruclips.net/video/Vf_jhl3b2Bc/видео.html
►Want to watch some old, behind the scenes stuff? ruclips.net/p/PL0GyXGSNsQ2xYYitlIBxCgN057GATGCBZ
sad. way of the outlaw has the most aesthetic super in the game but sucks the most. i say it needs a buff
Lmao I just play solo pve... I know I suck but I’m going into pvp for the first time 🦧 🔥
Awesome
No you.
Is nova warp better than six-shooter?!?
Rofl. If you held a gun to my head and said pick 6-shooter or Nova Warp, I'd pick nova warp. It can pass for decent with Nezarec's Sin and Dark Matter. And its super will at least one-shot a bunch of thrall without me having to aim lol.