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Game of Thrones WHAT IF: Jon Snow Doesn't Join Night's Watch
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- What if Jon Snow did NOT join the Night's Watch? What would've happened to him on Game of Thrones? Well, find out NOW
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I think Robb would be better influenced by Jon, his brother, to not marry Talisa and convince Robb to take the frey woman.
Daron Gates Theon is just thinking about the hottest girl. And Jon is more about the most hobourable thing to do.
I covered this in the raw footage of my video, but I cut it out. My view:
I don't think Jon would've persuaded Robb in this. Books wise for sure, but I don't think it would've changed Robb's mindset.
Daron Gates I imagine Jon being a bastard may have offered to marry Jane instead to preserve her honour while also not having Robb lose face or be seen as an oathbreaker to the Freys. If he didn't suggest it himself, I could also see Cat suggesting it as a way of getting Jon out of Winterfell while also having a loyal occupying force at the Crag.
Walder Frey would still have been pissed off. He wanted the Stark heir, not the Stark bastard, and specifically wanted Hoster Tully's grandson, which Jon is not. Offering Jon in Robb's place would have seemed a gross insult to the House of Frey.
VeracityLH no, what I said was that Jon would marry Jeyne instead so that the alliance could remain intact.
What if Shagga became the King of Westeros? axes for everybody lol
And shields and helms!
oh and don't forget the goats
Axes, shields, and helms Oh my! ♪
many goats would be fed
What if Tywin found out who arya was
I honestly think Jon could've survived the Red Wedding. The Blackfish survived cuz he left the banquet hall before the massacre started. Considering Catelyn's treatment of Jon, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't allow him into the banquet hall. I could see him escaping
Another possibility: If all went the same way up until Theon taking Winterfell, Rob may have sent Jon to lead the force to take it back, rather than trust the task to the Boltons.
That leaves Jon in Winterfell when the Wildlings arrive. Many possibilities here, from Jon putting up a similar fight and holding Winterfell in the same way he held the Wall, or maybe meeting Manse and the Wildings separately.
That is totally possible. I'd like to think that Robb would've still sent the Boltons since Roose insisted on it, but that's very possible!
Nice suggestion, Bobby
TheBattProductions I have a question about the Boltons. How many men were they able to levy? Roose sent in that 2,000 man bait force against Tywin, all of whom died. Then he still had men at the Twins for the massacre of the northern army, and they presumably took light casualties. Ramsay also had a force of a couple hundred men to retake winterfell. In addition, Roose sent a few dozen soldiers to get Jaime back. And at the Battle of the Bastards, Ramsay had his Bolton archers, cavalry, and Spearmen. Karstark and Umber combined had probably around 2,000 men, which means Ramsay had at least 3,000 Bolton men at his command. Is there an exact total, or must we add up all the Bolton forces we've seen to far onscreen or in the books?
he would never have trusted the boltons over his own family especially the boltons because of their troubled past
i wanna see the reaction when jorah meets jon snow and jorah sees that jon anow has his family sword.
It's gonna be soooooooo good!
default terror The pommel is completely different. Might think its just a similar Vsteel sword.
TheBattProductions what if cat and the rest of the starks khow who jones mother and father where.
Sebastian Arnold thats a good one
O00ooo that's awesome
What if Nimeria killed Joffrey?
That little sonofagun would've died so early...
How would that have affected everything
Well, Eddard Stark would probably be on the Wall, since Cersei would still have managed to accuse him of treason at Robert's death. He would have accepted Varys's offer to save his daughters, but no Joffrey to claim his head, just an awkward Tommen pretty much happy that he does not have to order someone's execution. He probably would have talked Robb out of going into war in order to protect his family, and Robb would have become Lord Stark. Sansa would probably not have been engaged to Tommen though, as the Lannister/Stark alliance is not needed at all. Cersei would be enraged and would want to kill all of the Starks, sure, but since Jaime, Tyrion and Tywin would not give the smallest shit about it, nothing would have happened. So yeah... A pretty happy ending, Jon Snow's life on the Wall would have been happier with his father around to counsel him. Eddard could have ended Lord Commander, it would not surprise me at all, he is a hero of the rebellion, a good fighter with a strategic mind, and he does not really like charisma among the Northerners.
@@UnlicensedOkie maybe Eddard would be okay with Tommen on the throne and never "commit treason".
If Jon rides off to war with Robb he would be by his side on the battlefield, which makes it fairly likely he crosses blades with the Kingslayer at Riverrun and dies instead of Daryn Hornwood or the Karstarks, which makes a bigger difference then people might imagine. A living Daryn Hornwood means Ramsay Snow has no control over those lands. If only one Karstark son dies, perhaps Lord Karstark is so mad with grief.
If Jon Snow goes with Theon to the Iron Islands, the Greyjoys would have killed him for certain. There is a chance that Jon, who hates Theon, might be able to talk Robb out of sending Theon at all though.
I do think others have pointed out an interesting scenario where a legitimized Jon Snow who is gifted a title (Lord of Moat Cailin?) marries Jeyne Westerling in Robb's stead to retain her honor. Robb marries a Frey and there is no treachery.
Another scenario is that Robb does wed Jeyne, which means that Edmure Tully marries a Frey. In this case, I highly doubt Catelyn let's Jon attend her brother's wedding. I think it would be interesting to see him rally the men and beat back the Freys the same way he holds the Wall during the Battle of Castle Black. He takes the Twins, slaughters the Freys and Boltons, and provides irrefutable proof that the Freys, Lannisters, and Boltons broke guest right. If nothing else that's going to put a lot of pressure on the Tyrells because of the dishonor of their allies.
The Stark's still have an army but they loose somewhere between 5,000-10,000 men at it, meaning that's a quarter to half of The Northern Army gone.
He only hated Theon because of what he did in Season 2. At this point, he was whatever to Theon.
I don't think people give Jon much credit as a swordsmen. Jamie is damn Good but so is Jon I think Jon would have called him out and held his own long enough for Jamie to be Captured without the Deaths of Hornby or the Karstarks Boys. The problem comes with then Jon starting to get more praise then Robb which Catelyn wouldn't be Happy about. Once you throw the new pebble into the pond it creates ripples outwards that change everything. Hell I highly Doubt Jamie would even try for Robb with TWO Direwolves on the field.
what if the high sparrow had listened to margaery and they all left the sept before the wildfire explosion
they never would've made it out in time
Cersei will be gangbanged by the sparrows and put their maces inside her
@@MegaMerlin5 what if he blew out the candles before they touched the wild fire..no explosion
Just two things I might add.
1.) If Jon stays, he would probably be the one who goes to warn Ned of the assassin who tried to kill Bran, Catelyn wouldn't be going anywhere. This drastically changes things, since Jon wouldn't kidnap Tyrion, Jaime doesn't attack Ned in the streets. and Tywin doesn't send his men to go rampage the Riverlands.
2.) Jon would do a much better job then Catleyn did as far as convincing Robb that sending Theon away is a bad idea.
Robb: "We need the Iron fleet as our allies. I've decided to send Theo-".
Jon: "No".
Robb: "What"?
Jon: "I said no. What're you, out of you're mind? That's a horrible idea. Father always said that we should keep Theon close. There's no telling what Balon would do once his heir is back".
Robb: "........fine".
What if Bran and Rickon made it to the wall and met up with Jon
That's good I hope he does it
The Bolton would have found them a lot earlier and probably killed them.
Jon Snow really goes from boy to man at the wall and that transformation is really really necessary for him to be of any use in the wars to come. you also completely left out his being able to meet the last living Targaryen Prince. you really neglected how much that person influenced Johns life yes commander Mormont completely changed it but without the wisdom of the old raven master John would have been a whole lot worse shape in a lot of ways.
So Jon joining the NW --> Best decision ever
tho i think, and hope in my evilness, that Jon will die this season of the show
Basically, yeah. Haha
Eddard Stark wasn't a moron. He put him there because he knew that in any case, he would be safe. Ned's plan was to be hand, but with the wildcard of being pledged to the nights watch if anything happened. There he would be made Lord Commander (because Mormont was his vassal and Ned was known throughout the kingdom to be honorable) and release Jon from his vows in the proper time.
So here's what I think, If Jon went south with Robb to fight in the war of the five kings, Its highly possible that when he split his forces after crossing the twins, he would give command of his foot soldiers to Jon Snow instead of Roose Bolton. Jon snow stands a high chance of victory against Tywin's host at the battle of Green fork where Roose lost five thousand Northmen to Tywin. Given that Jon and Rob think alike and possess similar strategic minds, it would've been possible for Jon to defeat Tywin and even take him captive, with Robb's victory at the whispering wood and the capture of Jaime, the Lannister threat would've ended, scattering the Westerland forces at least temporarily until Kevan or someone else takes command. They could've even exchanged Jamie and Tywin for stark daughters and Ned. Just a scenario but seems highly possible in this case.
What if arya
Killed tywin in Harenhall
What if Jon Snow knowed something , lol
Haha
Knew* :P
Knewded
Jon would of told Robb to marry the Frey instead of the Jeyne/Talisa. What is your problem against Robb you seem to think the red wedding would of happened regardless in most scenarios but the red redding depended on a lot of factors such as rose boltons faith in Robb stark who with Jons council along with theons would be quite a bit more competent than without not only that the in and Jon would of been commanders in Robbs army influencing roose's faith in Robb. You seem to hate Robb for some odd reason
Robb you're the only dude I ever respected man
Cool video. I love speculating different scenarios.
Nice
Maybe he would convince Robb not to marry Talisa and to keep his word to Freys. That might not trigger the red wedding.
what if jon fell for Talisa and there would be no red wedding
What if ser mandon moore managed to kill tyrion at the battlr of blackwater
Good idea. The little man would've gone downnnnnn and hurt a lot of stuff!
+TheBattProductions and after that you can do another one abt what if shae killed tyrion when he found her in tywins room
Sansa would've probably been stuck with lancel , yuck no
Plz make one for what if Robb Stark marries Margaery Tyrell?
why would he ?
She wants to be queen, he needs more troops.
indianmota that doesn't make sense lol...margaery wanted to be queen of westeros
And Robb Stark had Jaime Lannister captive. if he had not been betrayed by his own men, he would have carved westeros into half while also ruling the riverlands.
What if Stannis never met Melisandre
Having such a great swordfighter as Jon Snow is on the battlefield may save the life of Karstark's son(s) when the Kinslayer was captured. That means the Karstarks may have stayed loyal to Starks and larger army may prevent the Red wedding (since lord Frey is a coward).
this is just me and it might just be how it would play out in the books but I don't think Jon would have been at the red wedding. I think rob would have sent him with to find Howland reed with Maege Mormont so not all of his cards would be at the twins. rob wanted to name jon his heir so why would he bring his backup plan with him to the twins. would jon have willingly gone no but rob would have ordered him and he would go I think
So a variation of above: What if - Ned had shared his secret with at least his wife about Jon? What if Catelyn had treated Jon as family?
Would the Red Wedding have even happened if John went with Theon? The only reason Rob went back North was to take Winterfell. He wouldn't have had to if it never fell.
I do think so, yes. Robb's armies didn't go back to Winterfell but instead Ramsay and some forces took Winterfell back.
What if Catelyn Stark dosent travel to Kings Landing or What if the Hound losses his combat by trial against Don Dorian.
Excellent suggestions my sir!
Cat went south to warn Ned about the attempt on Bran's life because Robb had to stay in Winterfell. If Jon had been there he would have gone. Thus, no war.
Samwell* not Samuel
Just a few things I think you missed out on....
- As the newly anointed "King in the North", one of his first acts as King would be to have Jon legitimized to make him a fully-fledged Stark.
- At the time when Theon left to seek the assistance of the ironborn Robb fully trusted him. So I doubt he would have sent the heir to Winterfell and his most trusted advisor to the iron islands. Robb made a load of mistakes during the War of the Five Kings, but I doubt even he was dumb enough to hand over the possible next King in the North to people his father went to War with.
- With Jon fully legitimized and the next in line to inherit the crown in the North when Robb dies. With the Stark name and all It would have likely been Jon who married Roslin Frey at the Red Wedding and not Edmure Tully.
Wouldn't his mom forbid him from legitemizing Jon?
@@leonpaelinck
She's his mother- & he's already reached his majority - she can't _forbid_ him to do anything, as Lord.
Catelyn, like many noble/ royal mothers could have an honourary position as an advisor- but she's far from his only/ most important source of advice.
She can (& did) argue her opinion & stance, but he is under no obligation to take her advice -- even under normal situations her advisory capacity is honestly limited (though, until he married- she would be the senior authority, along with the Castellan on domestic matters).
I would argue that in war, it should be *more* limited; she's not Brienne or Maege Mormont -- on the matter of Robb legitimising Jon: in the books, while he listens to her list off some other potential heirs, in place of Jon- & her kids that she thinks are dead/ in Lannister clutches (most of them are from the Vale [3 houses, with numerous individuals] - I can't remember if she mentioned the earlier Stark-Rogers marriage, the latter house is from the Stormlands) - but after hearing her out, he tells her that they aren't acceptable, as they aren't Northern-raised as Jon is- & their Stark ancestry, though legitimate is distant.
I would argue the knowledge would be good to keep in the back of their minds, should the neutrality of the Vale change- in fact, Robb could have heard from Brynden/ his mother that there are numerous Vale houses in support of him, headed by the Royce's- & that knowledege could have been handy in arranging wardships/ marriages, to bind the two regions closer together- as a kind of alliance prelude/ detente - something that _could_ have been in Catelyn's wheelhouse....
Jon might not of died at the red wedding because it was Catelyn's brother getting married and she would of protested hard to Rob about Jon not coming. He can possibly travel with the Blackfish and go to Winterfell or maybe he spends time with the Brotherhood of no banner since some of them were Stark Bannermen. They may be loyal to Jon or take him since he is Ned's son.
Man, I've thought about it so many times how Jon shouldn't have joined the NW, but I am now completely convined it was for the best. It's just so freaking amazing to see how one seemingly insignificant act can cause such a long string of events in this world.
I KNOW RIGHT!
Sometimes when I go to these, I genuinely have no idea how it's going to turn out. This one made me think critically enough about it to the point of getting this outcome and man...so much chaos!
jon will be captured or killed by iron born and theon still betray rob
1:53 So is Robb though. They were pretty much born in the same year. So age isn't really an issue. And besides, 15 is considered adult in a medieval European setting.
Hey, fellow ship grad here class of 2014, love your vids have been with you since the first thousand or so. Keep up the good work.
if theon never took winterfell, roose bolton wouldnt include himself in the red weeding because he wouldnt have ramsay in winterfell, and as long as starks are in winterfell, the north will side with them. without the boltons i think the freys wouldnt try to killrobb either
I don't think so either and I'm actually going to put out a WHAT IF maybe Sunday that touches on this!
weird thought, but what if while Tyrion was hand, he offered to call off Sansa's engagement to Joffery and send her back north in exchange for Robb's surrender
The Boltons only take part in the red wedding because all of the Starks can be wiped out in one fell swoop, securing him the North. If Theon stays out of Winterfell, Roose Bolton doesn't betray the Starks out of fear of retaliation by Bran in Winterfell.
What if Sansa left with the hound?
I think the red wedding could be avoided with Jon accompanying Robb. He could’ve guarded Jaime instead of the karstark son. Jaime doesn’t escape, the karstarks don’t kill those 2 boys, so they never leave. He could talk Robb out of breaking his betrothal by asking him what their father would’ve done. I think he makes a huge difference in the war
yeah the what if Videos are back. really missed it.
I read so many great suggestions here. you could do tons of Videos and still so many more to go. 😉
I think I'm going to do both DeathMatches AND What If vids because I want to finish the DeathMatches but want to keep people getting their dose of WHAT IFs.
SO, hooray! :)
in the books during this time, both Robb and Jon were 14. Part of why Catelyn hated him so much was because she saw him as a threat to the line of inheritance and is why she never wanted him to be a stark. He looks way more like Ned than Robb.
Love these and have one for you. "What If The Greyjoys win their independence, so Theon stays instead of living in Winterfell?
he gets to keep his dick lol... on a serious note if the iron islands won their rebellion that would mean most likely Jamie lannister, thoros of myr, jorah mormont, and possibly Ned stark would've most likely been killed or captured so that would change the story entirely
IMO, as a bastard, I don't think he would have been attending the Red Wedding, trusted man or not. He may have even been finding himself the Castellan while Robb went to war, protecting Bran and Rickon.
I can't see that happening truthfully. I don't think Robb would've held him back like that, and Robb was THE most important guy there. I thought about it but eh.
Like I had mentioned in the vid, I couldn't see Robb leaving Jon there with Catelyn (at the time) when Rodrik was around.
This is very intriguing... the part of Jon being the LS is like WOAH...
Also I don't know if I've mentioned it but I like your haircut (you did get one it's not just me seeing things right hehe?)
I'm glad you dig it :)
I did get a haircut a few weeks ago! Thank you for the nice comment on it. I like it very much as well (normally I'm really fussy about haircuts, hah). I just wanted to try something new
Catelyn would have never allowed Jon to stay at Winterfell, Ned would have been forced to take him to court. So unfortunately, Jon would likely have ended up being a prisoner of the Lannisters.
I disagree on that. What Ned says goes. He would've wanted Jon there, IMO, and Cat would've sucked it up.
From what i see the fans of this channel do better what ifs in the comments on the channel than the actual channel
10 k subs already, congrats man!!
Thanks a lot, you fancy Pie you
I feel like Rob wouldn't have brought him to the red wedding if it occurred as he had already insulted the freys that he may see taking a bastard to this wedding as possibly causing more tensions between the two sides
Jon would not have gone to Pyke with Theon. The two of them never had that good of a relationship. As a ward, Theon knew he was an outcast, so he made himself feel better by punching down at the bastard.
Jon may have been seconded to Edmure Tully to prevent him from attacking and ruining Robb's advantage. OR he may have prevented Robb from getting hurt in battle and then being nursed back to health by Talisa. OR if Robb still got hurt and had sex with Talisa, Jon would have been there to let Robb know that a Stark having a fling is no great crime, even if children result, and would have encouraged him to marry Frey's daughter.
I think this is some really good commentary. I can't say it wouldn't happen this way - both are super plausible (yours and mine), IMO. Especially with the relationship of Theon and Jon.
Good stuff.
Maybe you've done this and I don't remember, but WHAT IF: The Starks never found the dire wolves?
I haven't done it! I can give it a shot!!!!
Thank you :)
It is the Starks duty to help the Wall. 1. historically they have a connection to it. 2. they are Wardens of the North or King in the North. Wildling invaders undermine their whole purpose and standing.
what if the Mountain killed the Knight of flowers before the hound could save him at the tournament? I'm from South Baltimore have fun!!
What if Baelor breakspear didn't die at the tourney of Ashford maddows
(and survived the great spring sickness)
what if Damon targaryan won at the red grass field
what if Cerci didn't love Jamie
what if winterfel wasn't sacked by Ramsey and or taken by theon
Jaime might not have ended up in the Kingsguard- because it was Cersei's jealousy over a potential Riverlands' marriage that made her get in his ear about how if he were in the Kingsguard, after she married Rhaegar- they'd still be close, & nothing would have to change between them - her father blamed Aerys, when it's arguably her first instance of incompetent plotting going absolutely, monumentally sideways-wrong...
I don't think Jon goes to the Red Wedding. Jon would have been legitimized by then most likely (especially if Theon still turns, and Bran and Rickon are "killed"). That makes him the heir to Winterfell, and just like you don't keep the VP and President together you don't keep the Lord and heir together when walking into danger.
Also still want to know what happens if Maester Aemon takes the throne lol
That's actually a GREAT point I missed I think, which is that Jon would've eventually been legitimized. Excellent idea (many believe he WAS legitimized by Robb before the Red Wedding in the books, but no solid proof of it).
TheBattProductions Robb said he wanted to legitimize him... Cat forbid it because of course she did (to be fair she did use the Blackfires as her rationale)... but is Jon is closer to Robb than Cat would probably be farther away so even more likely he would have been legitimized
What if Ned told Jon about his parents before separating?
Excellent idea!!!
Love it.
How long is a person allowed at the Watch, until they *have* to either make their vow- or leave? Has that ever been established?
People have visited the Watch, & left (I know in Book 5, Jon allows people to not bind themselves to the Nights' Watch- but to serve it, while they're there) - is there any kind of precedent in the canon for that...?
I do have a question for your series. Perhaps you already did a video on this but as R+L=J is true, I'd love to see what you'd think Cat's reaction would be and how would that have changed Jon's life if she found out he isn't her husband's bastard.
I find it more likely that Jon would be brought to King's Landing by Ned since Cuntlyn made it clear that she would not tolerate Jon at Winterfell. So this begs the question, what if Jon goes to King's Landing with Ned. What events can be changed by Jon being present? Like Jon fighting Lannister soldiers when Jaime confronts Ned at the whorehouse; Jon plays a pivotal role and prevents Ned from being injured which opens other possibilities. Another event he could influence is fighting along Stark men as they're betrayed by Littlefinger. The Wolves can't realistically win so they fight a retreating engagement and join the rest of Ned's guard and escape Kings Landing. What follows then? Where would Ned lead his troops and to whom would he go to for help? Assuming Ned was smart enough to tie and gag Sansa up and thus manage to evacuate the girls before events unfolded, he would not be affected by the threat of them being in Cersei's hands.
Well for this storyline Jon actually might not be at the red wedding, and may even have met arya when she almost made it there, mostly because catelyn wouldn't allow it because she hates him, and maybe because robb knew the Freys would ridicule him for being a bastard
What if Brandon Stark (Ned Stark's brother) had not been executed by the Mad King?? Would be interesting because I believe Ned was brought up as a second son meaning he was not prepared to be Warden of the North. His father obviously had enough intrigue to think up the Northern, Vale, River land and Storm land Alliance with marriages and he had ambition by repairing Winterfell. Whereas Ned has no intrigue what so ever and you could argue Catelyn rules the North by how much she influences Ned. Brandon would have been brought up by his father to succeed him and would have known about his fathers grander ambitions. What do you think TheBattProductions. By the way first vid I have seen of yours and instantly subbed. What a great vid and great what if theories/scenarios. Thanks for the vids.
1:57 Jon is 14 in A Game of Thrones, which is when Robb calls the banners.
Oh the songs! "The king and the Bastad", "The wolf brothers" :-D
Several options:
1. He dies in the red wedding.
2. He gets legitimized by Rob Stark and dies in the red wedding.
3. Dead or hostage on the Iron Islands.
i disagree about the wildlings taking the wall bit, without jon's Nightwatch experience there wouldnt have been anyone to lead the wildling flanking party over the wall. Leaving just one side to defend, the watch would only have to protect the walled flank and im fairly certain they wouldve held off, afterall 90% of the watch's casualties were on the ground at Castle Black not on the wall. If none of that convinced you, just remember that Stannis' army ends up there just a day later so even if the watch lost/losing, Stannis's cavalry wouldve slaughtered them just like they did in the original timeline.
What if Sansa told on Joffrey after the Wolf/butchers boy incident?
Next death match..Jon Snow vs John Cena
Jon Snow won't be able to see him tho!
IT'S BACK!!! THANK YOU!
Haha, you're welcome!
I just noticed your awesome grey eyes!
They look so much like something out of a fantasy novel. I've never seen grey eyes before...
I think Jon would have been able to convince Robb to keep his oath to Walder Frey, thereby circumventing the Red Wedding and the Boltons' eventual takeover of Winterfell.
I really don't think so, but many agree with you Smitty!
Thx for the comment sir
No I wouldn't think there would have been a red wedding in the first place. If Jon was there he would have consulted Robb not to marry Talisa considering how strict Jon is with the vows. Even if Robb married Talisa and broke his promise with Walden Frey, I think Jon would have persuaded Robb not to join alliances with The Freys knowing the agreement can be too risky.
I don't think it would've gone down that way, but I will admit that I think Jon would've counseled to stay away.
I think there would be something similar, even if Rob did his duty and married the Frey girl, he still would have been betrayed. Before the Red Wedding, the war was pretty much lost because he didn't have the men, or the resources to beat the Lanister's and the Tyrell's. The moment his bannermen such as the Bolton's realise the war was lost, they would have betrayed him all the same.
TheBattProductions yeah but Jon possibly could have stopped Robb from cutting off Karstark's head. They wouldn't have to go to the Frey for reinforcements against Casterly Rock.
Enjoyed the video bro. Keep em coming
Thanks a lot Garlan!!!!!
Man, no bran and rickon believed to be dead: no catelyn releasing Jaime: no tywin having the guts to exectute order 6... I mean the red wedding, and if jon adviced robb to do his duty, maybe the starks could have won
I'm thinking that Jon would talk Rob out of making foolish mistakes which may result in Bas&^rds or a loss of honor. I also think there's a chance he leads the second force instead of Lord Bolton. Possibly cancelling the red Wedding.
I'd have done this differently. Jon goes to the wall with Ben and Tyrion, meets Sam, everything goes the way it did, until it comes to saying the vows, and Jon and Sam say "fuck this", and go to Winterfell. There'd be no Catelyn there, then.
The Red wedding wouldnt have happened. Rob probably wouldn't have had the the tully forces operating alone thus crushing the mountain and his forces. This opens up the lanisters big time and diminishes the luckilyhood of the frays and boltons flipping sides.
I really don’t think Robb would marry Taliban/Jayne. Why? Jon influenced Rob more than almost any other person and was basically a copy of Ned Stark. He would definitely make sure Robb stayed in line or would have been married to the Frey girl and that would have may Walden happy due to Jon being made the next king in the North.
jon understands more than most the heart wants what it wants. it was catleyn who was more thinking about political impact and pragmatism. while Jon would be like yo my man!
I love how you did all the different facets as far as how how things would change for Westeros, instead of just what it would mean for Jon. It just goes to show how important every detail is in the story
MELANIE! Haven't seen you in ages!
Why thank you :) I TRY to be as thorough as I can, but it's tough since there's so much detail. Try to cover my bases as best I can :)
There's no way Robb would send Jon with Theon. If Jon is with Robb then he'd be there with him when he finds out about Bran and Rickon and he doesn't need Jeyne Westerling to 'comfort' him. Maybe the Boltons and Freys still betray Robb, but it wouldn't be at a wedding. More likely on a battlefield. Perhaps Robb sends Jon to raise another Northern host and retake the North after they lose Winterfell to the Greyjoys before the betrayal and he ends up having to deal with the Greyjoys and Wildlings after they break the Night's Watch. From there Stannis can swoop in and help Jon with the Boltons and Freys.
Cant believe we havent seen this one yet nice
It's been suggested a few times I just hadn't gotten to it!
Thanks for the comment Might!!!
Think for a moment, maybe the red wedding wouldn’t happen as John is an honerable man. I would imagine either he would have married Jane in place of Rob, or he would have reminded him of his vows to the frays
Ok, Here I am with a fresh mind! So like I've read I don't think Robb would have married Talisa/Jeyne if Jon was with him. And if he would, Jon would not have stayed with him after that. He wouldn't accept his brother breaking an oath (let's remember that he hadn't met any redhead wildling who made him break his). So my guess is that he would have come back to Winterfell. Since Robb is Robb, he still would have named him his heir, to Catelyn's dismay. I think that the Ironborn would still have raided the North, with or without Theon's help, but Jon and the remaining forces of the North would have pushed them back. Ultimately, he would have kept Winterfell in Stark's hold after the Red Wedding. The Boltons wouldn't be able to take it with Bran, Rickon and Jon still in here.
He might also have been able to reason Roob on the beheading of Rickard Karstark. But you're right about the rest. He not being at the Wall means the Wildlings breaching it, and the White Walkers after them.
Amazing video as always, and I have 2 other "what if" to suggest : "What if Catelyn didn't capture Tyrion in the Riverlands?" and "What if Catelyn hadn't released Jamie when they got him... in the Riverlands?" damn you, Catelyn Stark!
Thank you so much! I love the ideas.
Also I dig the argument. I admit I DO think the Red Wedding would've happened anyway, but I can see the argument for Jon living through a non-Red Wedding.
The Widow Hornwood may not have been forced to marry Ramsay. Robb may not have taken the arrow at the Crag, thus no Jeyene Westerling. If there was no Jeyene nursing Robb the Frey's wouldn't defect!
I would love to see you update these videos in light of the events of seasons 7 and 8...
love the videos big K! much love
Thanks broski!
In the books, Catelyn hates him so much if he didn't go to the Wall he'd have to go with Eddard to Kings Landing and die along with Vayon Poole when Eddard was arrested.
Hey, great one again. But i think you forgot the whole Sansa, Littlefinger, and Ramsey Storylines. Especialy Ramsy would still be allive and doing some fucked up Ramsey-Stuff.
And for another one i have this Idea:
What if Arya would have told the names of Gregor Clegane, Cersei Lannister and Tywin Lennister to Jaqen H'ghar?
Thanks for the nice words!
I didn't forget those storylines, I just thought they'd either A) Not be changed or B) Impossible to predict with accuracy
That's a great idea! Geez...those are some BIG characters.
I don't know mutch about next season but i already know sansa is gonne fuck some shit up
Well she should at least be a part of some f'ing up of people!
What are you on about? Do you mean the knights of the vale? She warned Jon not to fall for Ramsey's trap. She needed to draw Ramsey out of Winterfell to eliminate his army. She planned it strategically well. She did not know that Jon would fall so completely for Ramsey's trap (She did warn him about Ramsey). It was Jon's fault that so many of his forces died. If he had followed his own battle plan he may have even won without Vale support. Having the Vale army at the beginning would have meant Ramsey would have stayed in Winterfell and neither the Vale forces or Jon's had the resources to besiege Winterfell. Reason why Jon was attacking so soon was because he had not enough resources that was why he attacked even though Sansa was asking to wait for more help.
or Sansa couldve been a true team player and told jon that reinforcements were on the way but needed time instead of some "maybe we can get help, maybe not, lets just wait cause whatever!" jon being not a complete dumbass couldve seen the vale's army as a way to pull off a hammer and anvil formation and kite the ramsey army further away from Winterfell walls. We know Ramsey wouldve fell for the false retreat because he chased after Stannis' army when he knew he was winning that battle. Sansa was outright wrong to say she trusts jon one day then completely leave out a key component in saving wildling lives that Jon died protecting. if you can excuse Sansa's lying then you have to excuse jon's "Pickett's charge" because neither were on the same page and thats alwasy a recipe for disaster.
I do see your point about not being on the same page and love the Pickett's charge reference. As for why Sansa didn't tell Jon and not being a team player. Well the only reason I can think of is that she was jealous of Jon. Remember how he wanted to leave and she had to convince him to stay and fight for their home. They used the Stark name that she had to rally the Northern Lords and yet even though the ones that joined their forces because of that they ended up following Jon and not Sansa. It was Lord Baelish saying that it was Jon's army and that she needed one of her own such as the Tully army at Riverrun that was why she sent Brianne. I think now that they have Winterfell back she will stay loyal to Jon as I believe that look at Lord Baelish at the end was more of concern of what Lord Baelish will do not that he was right. After all ever since her father died all she has wanted was to return home. Now that she has that and her brother she will not let anything threaten that. That is why I do agree with original comment of Sansa gonna mess shit up next season particularly for Lord Baelish.
What if Ygritte survived the wilding attack against castle black ???
What would have happened? CHAOS! And chaos is a ladder. :p
Assuming Jon marches south with Robb, I'm heavily stringent on belief that Catelyn would stay at Winterfell just to be away from Jon and be with her remaining kids (In the books she refers to Bran as her favorite), which would probably change a whole bunch of shit, most notably trying to get Walder Frey to open up the Crossing for Robb's army.
Do what if Rob Bends the Knee. Scenario, when rob receives sansa letter he realizes Ned is done regardless but wants to save Sansa and Arya and doesnt want to bring men as winter is coming. Will be known as the Lord who Knelt?
What if cersei listened to Neds warning and left Westeros with her family?
NICE one! I dig it. I'll think about it sir for a future vid
what will happen if Sir Arthur Dayne and the white bull from the show survived of tower of joy? what if people like Tywin Lannister or Robert Baratheon found out Jon snow was a legitimate Targaryen in season 1 ?
Catelyn isn't at Winterfell when Robb calls the banners. There's a chance Robb will insist Jon stays to help Bran run Winterfell.
It's really quite disturbing how many times Ramsey's capture of Theon actually saved his life. Feels dirty just typing this ha.
I feel like Jon would’ve died at the Red Wedding along with everyone else because Robb simply wouldn’t have listened to Jon. He’s the bastard half-brother, not the King in the North like Robb.
If Jon doesn’t join the nights watch, i think there’s a small chance he goes to kings landing with Catelyn - when she goes with Ser Rodrick to tell Ned about the lannisters trying to kill Bran.
Why does Jon go? Before he left for kings landing, Ned told him he would tell him about this mother. That’s something Jon would brave Catelyn dirty looks for.
Why does Catelyn allow it? I don’t think she’s given a choice. Jon asks Rob to send him so he can talk to his father and Rob would want an extra sword to protect his mother. Maybe he sends Jon alone and keeps Ser Rodrick at Winterfell, especially since winterfell is without man power since most of the men went to kings landing. Catelyn would protest but she doesn’t have a leg to stand on after losing her rocker following Brans fall. Rob would give Catelyn a choice; go with Jon or he will send Jon alone with the message. Catelyn doesn’t trust Jon to deliver because she’s a b*** so she agrees.
On the road, things would be tense. Catelyn would insult and belittle Jon the whole way to Kings landing. Jon will take it but maybe he finally breaks and gives Catelyn a piece of his mind before they reach Ned.
At Kings landing, after cat tells Ned that the lannisters tried to kill bran, Jon asks Ned about his mother and Ned tells both of them truth of it.
Catelyn is prideful but she would feel awful. Being who she is, she’d be mad at Ned for not telling her sooner and not trusting her. Maybe they leave on bad terms because of it.
Back on the road with Jon, Jon would have the moral upper hand but being who he is…he wouldn’t really make her feel bad about it.
They wouldn’t get close on their way back to wintefell but I think Catelyn apologies to Jon after they capture Tyrion - because that still happens - and Jon gets Catelyn to the vale. They’d both be more cordial from here on.
Jon and Catelyn join Rob on his march to Kings Landing to rescue Ned. Here i think things get weird. Jon either dies at Red Wedding along with Cat and Rob - maybe he’s the one resurrected instead of Catelyn by the brothers without banners or Rob sends Jon to get back Winterfell after Theon betrays Rob;. Rob sends Jon along with Ramsey 😬.
Ramsey tries to kill Jon and probably succeeds. If he fails, Jon retakes Wintefell, kills Theon after he learns of Bran and goes on the search for Bran and Rickon. He probably makes it to Bran and goes north of the wall with him. After he and bran learn of the night king, Jon decides that’s the true enemy and joins the nights watch to help fight it.
Regarding Ghost; Jon wouldn’t be able to take him to Kings landing so he would tie him up at Winterfell. Ghost would eventually get away and go looking for Jon but Jon is too far away and Ghost gets lost like Nymeria.
How would learning he’s a Targaryen affect him? Jon at his core is a Stark. He wouldn’t want the throne and Ned would advise him to keep out of that. Jon would have resolved two childhood traumas though. He sort of made peace with Catelyn and he knows he’s not a bastard. It wouldn’t corrupt him. He’s be more confident though and probably a little cocky but not much.
I think it's possible that Robb would have given Jon command of the men he gave to Roose (yes, Roose is the more experienced one but Robb didn't even like Roose). I think if his half brother whom he grew up with and trusted had been an option, it's arguable that Roose mightn't have even been in a position to bargin with Tywin and Walder Frey. And if Jon has these men...aren't they the Northern men that escaped the Red Wedding and haven't been heard from since Robb sent them off? It could lead to an interesting scenario if the Red Wedding and Stoneheart had happened but Jon had a contingent of loyal Northmen at his command. I wonder if Stoneheart would have been more willing to tolerate Jon than Cat, particularly if it helps her to get vengeance for the Red Wedding.
Always spicing it up kev
I do what I can, I do what I can. Haha
Jon would have gone to war with Robb and in fact things might have been different because Jon would have been a positive influence on Robb. However he may have died at the red wedding in which case he would not have become the man he has. He needed the Nights Watch. It's humblised him, he's matured and it's turned him in to a leader. He's now ready to fulfil his position as King and I think he'll make a great King.
Pretty much agreed
In the books Robb and Jon are roughly around the same age. I wiuld say in the show they are probably 16-20 years old give or take.