BREAKING: Did Panerai Just Get Caught LYING About Using "In-House" Movements? (2021)
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- thetimetellershop.com
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Panerai’s definition of In-house: We took an ETA and put it in our watches!…. No, don’t misunderstand us, We did it at our factory! See! In-house🤦🏻♂️
Exactly 😄 or they could just call it an In-case movement 😋
Like Jeremy Clarkson once said: they are Italians, they’re are just gonna lie.
@@mohnnadmercedes8246 yes its like calling a Fiat 500 a $ 200.000 Ferrari. But they are Italians by heart. A survey published Saturday by Riza Psicosomatica, a monthly psychology review, said 70 percent of 360 Italian men and women interviewed had confessed to telling between five and 10 lies every day."Don't worry about it. It's all been taken care of," was the most common lie told, the publication said.
PAM in-house chronograph have some issues, it often paused especially if you try chronograph immediately after winding ; but the simple in-house movement for date only PAM, seems no issues.
Lol, I've done this to another watch at home 'in house' well 'at home'. Now it's time to make some serious cash.
Ironically, ETA is owned by The Swatch Group, the primary competitor of Richemont Group, owner of the Panerai brand. So it's not only not in-house, the movement is build by the competition!
Big OOF 🤣
ETA ha supplied movements to Swatch competitors for literally decades. Most mass producers do it, Seiko, Sea-Gull, Miyota etc. This isn't particularly noteworthy. The real rub is that they proudly announced this was an "in-house" movement. Usually companies will call it their own caliber but separately say, "we modified a XXXX movement".
And Swatch own Omega to
When your $70 Vostok is more in-house than a 10K Swiss watch
In-house, 100% made in Mother Russia.
They’re just living their truth. Some may say it’s a 2892 but it identifies as in-house.
Ridiculous. As a watch collector/enthusiast, I find this behavior by Panerai to be insulting at best, intentionally predatory and deceptive at worst.
"We call our case the "house" of the watch. Therefore, the movement is in-house."
-Panerai, probably
Great one
Bremont : Sweating nervously
@@peterkull8354 Bremont too uses ETA movements, modifies them & calls them in house
@@peterkull8354 even though they got caught lying their doing ok!
They didn’t lie. They just tried to hide the truth. 😂. I think I changed my mind about looking into Panerai. I can get an ETA movement on many other watches for way less.
I am upset
@@kwameofori8947 remain calm, please.
I think they should fire their whole PR and marketing team. They could have told us it is a heavily modified ETA and explain all the engineering they did and market that. Instead, they took us the buyers for fools. I would not be surprised if this charade came from the same guy who came up with the "brooklyn bridge" idea.
Evidently you have not watched the videos on how panerais are made and the movements are made in house as are all the other parts. So do your research first.
Build your own Panerai Luminor Marina, with ETA 6497… i did… way cheaper, and you will feel prouder since you built it :)
I have a question: who outside of California still takes Hoodinkee as even remotely independent watch journalism 😂
No one
I trust Hodonkee and Brodinkee more
Never trust a journalist 👍
In the pocket of the large watch companies. Basically a marketing company.
GREAT point. They are a watch store. Their journalist credential has a major conflict of interest.
Remember the days of having brands clarify Swiss made vs Swiss Movt? Panerai has been over priced for years based on the quality. The sad part is ETA is a solid movement maker and if you modified it to improve accuracy no one would fault the use. Just say so
Panerai realized that fakes of their watches were selling too well.
So Panerai decided to start producing fakes as well.
I once heard a story that someone send his Panarai (which he bought second-hand) to panarai for a factory service. They serviced it and send it back to him. After a few years he wanted to sell it, it turned out it was a fake Panarai. It was confirmed by other credible sources as well.
I mean how did Panarai not notice that’s a fake. They must have noticed at some point.
@@oscarosullivan4513 commie... XD
That's why, again, everyone should respect Seiko.
And Orient
They have my respect, but until they change their business practices theyre not getting my money
@@oscarosullivan4513 Could you please further explain what you mean?
@@oscarosullivan4513 ah ok, thanks for the reply. I just bought a Seiko and was more worried about unethical practices or something. I can live with that, as my watch isn't an expensive. I plan to get a nicer watch in the future and it'll probably be the Tissot PRX. Hopefully they'll get their shit together cuz I love Seiko.
@@oscarosullivan4513 The only mess I've been hearing is misaligned bezel. You compare the mess to price ratio Seiko is not doing as bad as the other overrated watch brands. I respect Seiko for not pretending to be something.
Yeah, as someone who works in a marketing department, getting facts like that wrong is either incredibly poor training or outright deceptive. Neither is a good look.
Hey. So do I but I highly doubt that the marketing/sales department decide on their own to call this an "in house" movement. That information was probably passed on to them and all they can do is communicate it. Heck, I don't think the marketing guys can even tell the difference between in-house or ETA.
@@johnboud2071 I'm leaning towards poor training and information, for sure. Someone above them made that call, and they're putting their employees in a difficult spot. Not cool. I feel sorry for the workers who have to field these questions. I've been there. It really sucks.
Panerai knew what they were doing. Their sales reps were instructed to lie. If I had the budget to be mad about it, I'd be pissed with Hoodinkie (and "watch journalism" in general) for completely missing the engraving.
the movement woke up one day and said. I do not identify as an ETA, I choose to identify as a Panerai, and if you dare to differ then you are a product of the patriarchy!!
Next time you think of buying one of their watches give them $10 and say you CONSIDER it to be $10 000. Good luck altering reality around you.
This is where we can safely say "yeah, 10 G's for an ETA is simply asking too much."
You can buy real ETA movements for cheap on the bay.
@@muffemod Yeah, like $200 to $300 bucks for even the pretty good ones.
Or just buy a Sellita IWC for $12,000!
@@stephen255 hell yea baby :)
@@oscarosullivan4513 Inside a nice watch, I'd say $3,000
The more I watch the more I like the Accuracy of a quartz Casio f91.
I got to be shifting me. IT'S A F'n $6000 U.S. Dollar watch WTF.
@@PecanPie1102 Suddenly a fake Panerai starts to look like better quality than an original. 😂
Also.
Casio = God tier 😁
My new $ 30 Casio AE-1500 with a 10 year battery loves this video 😋👍
Casio watches are for children. Same as Casio keyboards are for children, then when you grow up you get a Yamaha. Your supposed to grow out of cheap tech and get adult stuff
I love Panerai but this kills the brand
Now I’m questioning why my favourite model randomly changed from clear case back to a closed case back 🤔
They are now using snap on casebacks on some models too.
That should be illegal for all watches not sold in Wal-Mart
I wish Panerai would just go back to using Rolex movements - even if they cases up older Rolex movements. The watches look decent but this lying or defrauding of information isn’t right . As for this video - very good thank you Jory 👍
Rolex made movement for Pam. They were Colbert movement that Rolex sourced out to Pam. But you can call them Rolex movement bc they had Rolex written on them.
But that would cut into their huge profit margin....lol
Once you become known for lying, whether individual or company; from then on people are going to take what you say with a grain of salt. Perhaps to some that is of little consequence. But, a good name is something you only have once.
It reminds of the tale of the Italian pinocchio, he couldn't stop lying and his nose grew and was eaten by the scary whale Richemont and ended up as a swiss wooden doll 😄
My Starking is more in-house than Panerai. Yeah I'm a snob. 😎
My even my Seiko is in house
Oh, but it is "in house", the real question is who's house? Eta or Panerai...
It comes from the house Switzerland, it's in house 😂
I once fitted an NH36 movement into my SNK809 in my house. I guess that makes this little watch equipped with what I consider an In House movement now.
Panarai seems to be crappy as they are either ignorant about their watches or.. they don't respect watch collectors as they try to pass off something for in-house!
"In-house" is about as clear as "Swiss Made" at this point.
The thing is that if you make a watch in China and put "swiss made" on it, the Swiss government will sue you into the ground. If you buy an ETA movement and say it's "in-house," nobody objects except maybe your customers if you get caught.
Is Jason Statham still gonna wear his in the movies????
Swiss made. 60% or greater I believe. All Bs.
Good investigative work "J" XD
Thanks for laying Panerai's cards on the table. I feel there are many manufacturers that modify ETA's, even if all they do is draw their company logo on a rotor with a sharpie, it's now different from the base ETA and is now ... IN HOUSE!!!
SMFH!
Thanks for sharing this info. I need to be more prudent if I am looking into getting a panerai now.
Thank you for this video. I was actually considering a Submersible for a next watch purchase. Now I don’t want to give my business to a deceitful company.
For me, Panerai had some street credit horology-wise - But now it's like Hublot, street credit for the wrong kind of reasons...
I'd laugh so hard if Panerai calls one of their alloys "Paneronium" just like Hublot with "Hublotnium"...
Pandemonium might be a better option :-).
They call their rose gold Rosetech. But I actually think Panerai is of the few that is doing a lot of innovation, coming up with interesting case materials like the carbotech. But all these models cost an arm and a leg. I understand there is the R&D cost but to sells us composite carbon fiber for 10K+? Nah I rather it be gold.
@@oscarosullivan4513 What do you mean? They have 38mm and 40mm models. Don't seem to be selling very well though.
Very interesting info. Thanks! Keep up the great content videos!
Why do companies attempt this crap when they always GET CAUGHT
ETA 2892 with a Dubois Dupraz module...how in the world did they get in house from that? I could almost see it if they produced the module in house and reworked the movement but this isnt even in the ballpark.
My thoughts exactly.
They are lying about what they are offering. If the movement is not 100% made in their factory like Rolex, then they are lying.
Panerai is only well known for their in-house crowns.
DOH - nice work & mad kudos. I can't stand dishonest companies.
As a former paneristi, having owned panerais since the mid 2000s, they lost their way. So much in fact the group called The Paneristi, who even got special limited editions named after them released by Panerai, ceased to exist and just NOW recently come back online. I’m now a Panerai owner again. But mostly the older ETA based models. They cheapened their line by adding gimmicky “plastic” watches and weird cheap materials. I was recently at my local boutique and handled a $18k chrono that was made by 3D printed titanium blasting and a “carbotech” bezel. It felt like a $35 Chinese watch. However making the move back to screw in lug bars and case backs was essential. When they downgraded their entry hand wind models to snap on backs and spring bars, and deleted the extra strap from the box set I was out.
I just drove past a parked fire truck when your bumper music came on… It scared the shit out of me! Great video by the way lol
To be fair, it’s very rare for the people doing online chat on a website to be employees of the company. They are usually a third party and using a script.
That’s not a solution befitting a luxury watch. Not an excuse.
late to the game seeing this video, but damn you nailed it. wanted to purchase this watch, but then learned about the controversy and ran the other way. always considered myself a paneristi, but recently sold off my entire panerai collection (9 watches) after panerai damaged my watch during a servicing. panerai is fixing the watch, but i have now been without the watch for nearly 6 months! wtf! i will NEVER buy another panerai again, nor should you. RUN AWAY! Horrible brand anymore that makes 'fashion watches' and not true dive-tool watches...
Hi Jory, love your uploads, very informative but hugely entertaining, you are one funny man, hello from your friends in England.
T3 Video intro music hits you with volume like when your TV show goes to an ad break.
Very informative video, Jory. Call them out on a lie and watch them go into damage control.
I was in the market for a paneri; I will not buy a watch that uses eta movements. This is not luxury, it is costume jewelry watches. Thanks for info.
This is a nightmare for Panerai. At this rate the Chinese clones will be closer to an in-house watch than their own.
The irony is that there are probably Chinese knock-offs of the Pan Brooklyn Bridge edition with much better finishing on the movements than the genuine
It's not like people are buying them, so who are they trying to fool ?
Brutal! Panerai is crumbling before our eyes… thanks for the vid!
A deliberate false claim is a criminal act.
Would you ever do a review on anonimo? I own their panda dial militare chronograph and it is by far my favorite watch I own. They have roots from panerai and I notice they are really not well covered on youtube at the very least. Would love to see an in depth review on the brand.
Good work. For me, your best video yet.
Even Invicta says that they buy their movements from other companies. 🤔
It’s probably been said before but a lot of people take common movements and change out the parts to make out their own. That could be what they did here, just forgot about the stamped p/n. Shame though.
I am biased though because I actually like the display back.
how many brands use the combination of ETA and the Dubouis Depraz Chrono? I have a Girard Perregaux Ferrari, but have seen more...
The chronograph module is also not in house. Virtually all chronograph modules that "sit on" existing movements are Dubois Depraz made modules.
To pay more than 3k on a Panerai is ridiculous.The out of the ordinary shape hype is over.
7:15 How considerate, but perhaps they meant in-house as in not outhouse?
Thanks for calling them out TTT.
It's marketing genius... You guys are all talking about it and it's created such a buzz in the industry. So it's a win for them
Even better, they invested $400k to do this, and didn’t charge us a penny for the compelling content! 🤣
Why would HODINKEE have picked up that detail? Their entire business model is being paid to tell lies to consumers
Whelp looks like I'm canceling my order 😆
I was under the impression that the swatch group no longer supplies ETA movements to companies outwith the swatch group......that's why so many brands are having to switch to sellita and other suppliers as they can no longer get ETA...or is ETA still being supplied to some of the"luxury"brands?
Great work. Subscribed.
I guess it really just boils down to are Pans worth their price?
Panerai: We build it inside a house, it is literally in house.
Isn't this kind of "in house" definition really common among swiss watch brands? Oris withtheir barely customized eta/sellita movements with repainted rotors, bremont with all that they've done... And the tag as you mentioned.
No, that's more like the "Swiss Made" label which refers to a specific proportion of the components having been made in Switzerland.
What Panerai did here is worse: they've straight up claimed an ETA part is something _they_ manufacture.
Many companies in-house movements are made by ETA, Sellita, and VMF. Y’all should really look up the definition of “In house” as it stand right now
Panerai used Unitas 6498 movements for years (probably still do), with the same "enhancements" that my $1000 Stowa has.
I have the 317 and the 292. I love them to bits and will keep them. But I won’t touch these newer Panerai’s with a ten foot pole.
You mean only Panerai or other's, because a being happening quite bit with other's besides Panerai,they give you the round around is frustrating...but yeah you are correct, great content my friend.from St George Utah...
What makes this any different of tudor using selitta/eta as a t600 in their bb36? Similar concept?
When Tudor used an ETA 2824-2, they gave it a better KIF shock absorber and a Triovis regulator, then tuned them to run within chronometer specs. Watches like the BB41/BB36/1926 etc. can be had for $2k USD or less. They also never claimed those movements were in-house. I’d say those last two points are worlds apart from what PAM is doing here.
Always thought that the pan was to big for me but I liked some of there models but for the cost of them I'd just buy the equivalent Hamilton and save thousand's and buy a Tudor aswell
Coming up in October, I will have the opportunity to acquire either a Panerai or an Omega Speedmaster. I'll be going with the Speedmaster.
Panera I has gone the way of Hublot...
Don't hold back - tell us how you really feel! ;-) Good vid. Keep at it!
I love Panerai. Can't explain it. The PAM 1033 for example. Amazing. Chunky, big, eta or in-house, I don't know but I love it
There are plenty of people/channels paid to hype up brands like Panerai, and plenty to lap up that hype, to make sure in 10 years they're better of than now, don't anyone worry about that. Good video!
So this is the same eta 2892a2 with Dubois Depraz module that can be had for around $600?
not their first time lying about what's inside a watch.
They are from Italy 🇮🇹 as long as the wine is good and the pizza 🍕 hot, all is good in their view 😉
Thanks for exposing this issue. Not only Panerai's deception but Hodinkee's concern for their artsy snobby image and lack of research. I don't have a problem with ETA's and own quite a few watches with their movements. However, you need to know the truth when shelling out that kind of money on a watch. As far as Hodinkee is concerned, they have quite the following and a great graphics and art department. Kind of like MVMT for the high end...
You miss the point Jory - very few of the people buying Panerai (or Hublot) are making the purchase based on the criteria us watch enthusiasts consider as important. They are more concerned with having something on their wrist that denotes perceived status and their place in the club. If you could make a watch from "unobtainium" and put a basic movement in it, then as long as it is perceived as being a luxury item only worn by a certain class, you will sell as many as you need to at a high price to make a nice fat margin. Insert P.T. Barnum quote here to describe the watch owners who fall prey to the advertising/branding hype.
Hoodwinki misses just about everything related to good horology except how to push around prices to their benefit
I'm sure some Italian lawyer has covered the small print so that in house means something else completely. It's really disappointing that the more you get into watches, the more you find out that some watchmakers and the journalists on their payroll are taking customers for idiots.
nice job and could not agree more
People would be surprised to know how much brands, even famous and recognized ones are actually NOT doing many part of their watches themselves (Tag Heuer, Panerai, AP,...) and are actually asking other companies (very often, unknown ones) to do it.
That's a reason why some independant watchmakers like Philippe Dufour said that to be recognized for your work, skills and knowledge, you have to get out of this whole world.
Before, I considered brands which were selling 2K-5K watches with ETA movement way too expensive for what it is (like ZRC or Minase). Now that I know what is happening, I consider way more their honesty and work.
Shocker. Wont be rushing to buy a Panerai
I still would love to get a Luminor Due. If anything, I'm hoping these boo boos will draw the SRP and resale down so I can get one the soonest lol!
Wow, this was very illuminating. I was eyeing a PAM01218 for a purchase about 2 years from now. Is the ETA movement crap? Or is the argument to be made, that they're selling the watch for 9k with a $35 movement?
look up the article pam of worms and revisiting pam of worms. Looks like the movement is about $595 buying it yourself. In the 2nd article there's a shot comparing Panerai's vs Rolex's fork bridge which makes me think, if they are skimping on quality here, what else are they skipping on-no excuses here really since their pricing is at the same level as Rolex.
I did some quick research and ETA is under swatch-which has many of their brands use ETA or ETA based movements so looks like ETA isn't exactly total crap. In this case this is Panerai's competitor and they are a little less forthcoming which is a bit shady perhaps. I'd do more research on the specific movement.
Great video. I think another point to bring up is that Panerai is using the p9200 movement in many of their other watches. The ones I was looking seriously were their dive watches. The watches looked great but with an ETA movement, it not worth half the price they’re asking for it. I don’t mind the ETA movement but I really mind their “price with an ETA movement. As a result of this scandal, which they don’t seem to cate about, I’m not buying a Panerai.
Your right
I believe it was in the 1950s that Waltham was sued by the US government for misrepresenting the source of their movements. Waltham claimed their watches were made in USA but the movements were being imported from Switzerland. In-house implies a design original to Panerai and I'm sure this discrepancy is enough to be the basis of a lawsuit.
It's almost like Sylvester Stallone purposely only sold his Panerai and all his RMs 😂
Well said! :)
Reminds me of some whiskey / bourbon bottlers who hide the fact their juice comes from large distillers who sell the product and is not "their" produced whiskey.
I'll have to do a taste test on all of those suspect whiskey. Just to be sure. For science. 😋
You deserve a glass of water after that rant 😅
The best that can be said about Panerai is that they are deceptive. The question is, is it deliberate or accidental? Either way way, it doesn't reflect too well on them.
Please, lower the sound of your intro and outro, because everytime I want to break my computer :D Everything between is great though. Panerai has never been my cup of tea but lately they are going to the POS level. It's like DW putting their logo on $5 aliexpress watch and calling it "swedish design" :D
Very well, without mincing words, totally agree with you, shame on Panerai
Can you make a video of the best watches for landscapers, construction, etc...
G shock is the only right answer for true heavy labor intensive jobs.
If you have some knowledge about swiss movements you see on the first sight it's a 2892 rotor bearing, so chrono must be a module DD is the first idea here. So, what do you think that wave design on the case back is for??? And 50m WR, rerally??? 25K for a "gold" case without any usable WR and a basic movement without any traditional finissage, plus the new attempt people will not see the difference, well this watch should better be a 2K beginner PAM...
Not sure why Panerai has to make a false statement in the beginning regarding the P9200. I don't think people would think less of the watch brand if they just admit to fitting an ETA calibre into their watch.
One take-away from the watch world I have learned is *don't claim to be something that you're not* .
Well you're paying over 6k for a watch that has an ETA movement... I'm sure a lot of people have a problem with that.
@@noka5730 I agree it is ridiculous to charge a premium for a watch with bought in movements. However, on the other hand, some watch companies actually put in work in modifying the bought in movements like adjustments and decorations. Furthermore, aside from the movements, there are other parts of the watch such as design, and materials used, can also hold up value. But, everything mentioned above is case by case basis.