Are In-House Movements Overrated? Better than ETA? Everything You Need to Know (Pros & Cons)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Shop Watches: www.teddybaldassarre.com/coll...
Shop Straps: www.teddybaldassarre.com/coll...
Written Content: www.teddybaldassarre.com/blog
In this video, I'll tackle the entire concept of the in-house movement. I'll define what it means (to me) to be in-house, address some grey areas, and then talk about some of the pros and cons. This one is sure to create some conversation, so please add your thoughts down below in the comments.
My List Videos Playlist: • Teddy's List Videos
Other Places to Check Out:
Instagram: teddybaldas...
0:00 - Intro and Organization
0:30 - 1. History
2:58 - 2. Grey Areas
7:19 - 3. Upsides and Downsides
Top Articles On TeddyBaldassarre.com:
50 Luxury Watch Brands You Should Know: teddybaldassarre.com/blogs/wa...
10 Affordable Watch Brands And Their Best Watches: teddybaldassarre.com/blogs/wa...
Best Watches Under $5,000 Complete Guide: teddybaldassarre.com/blogs/wa... 
Хобби
“Logic and luxury rarely intersect” My non-watch obsessed friends like to remind me of this often lol
@Chubby Monkey ya true..But I bet you're having way more fun
Hear ye hear ye
Lol. Those friends are missing out 😎
When I bought my Seamaster I really cared about in house. Because it was my first true luxury watch I just wanted it to tick a bunch of boxes -- ceramic bezel, interesting dial, display caseback, in-house, etc. Then I bought an IWC and didn't care as much because it wasn't occupying that space in my mind. It was just a watch I liked and the stakes really weren't that high. I'm seriously considering a Quartz Solar Cartier as my next watch now. Over time I've realised that you should just buy the watch you like and that this stuff isn't as important as it seems.
Fully agree with u. Unless u r the type of collector that r going for the movements then that is another story.
Yes yes. I had a similar evolution of thought. Almost killed myself trying to buy the perfect first watch. Now its just a lot easier to buy a watch because I just like it.
IWC makes in house movements. And their ETA based movements are so heavily modified that the only part IWC uses are the base plate.
You seemed to have a great point going and then you lost all credibility. You went from comparing a ferarri to a slightly cheaper ferrari and then randomly it seems said you are seriously considering a electric tesla. This discussion is about inhouse movements vs mainstream automatic movements. There is no rhyme or reason to anything you are saying. IWC has just as expensive and in house movements as omega. Quartz and automatic watches aren't even comparable, I would rather have an automatic seiko as opposed to your solar cartier, just so I can see the movement, just so I can maintain it and wind it. So you went from a luxury brand with inhouse movements, to a luxury brand with inhouse movements but you didn't care as much???? Now you are considering a solar watch. Maybe you should just buy a fit bit.
@@mad0uche Take a deep breath lol. Taste and priorities change over time with this hobby. All he’s saying is not to let the movement stop you from getting a watch that you might like.
This is one of your best videos! More content like this please.
Thank you! Appreciate you for watching.
@@TeddyBaldassarre Agreed, please talk more about the "Smoke and Mirrors" of the industry, lots to talk about there
"Logic and luxury rarely intersect". Great quote.
Speaking from my understanding, one of the main reasons why we love watches is sentimentality and romanticization. If we were into function alone, we'd take quartz over mechanical any day. But the whole thing about in-house movements simply add to the romanticized perception we have with our watches.
It's not what we 'see' when we look at the watch, but more of what we 'know' when we look at it. For example, the knowing of the fact that Seiko was the innovative underdog that contributed so much to the industry is the reason why the brand will always have a huge fan-base. We all relate to the underdogs in one way or another. We feel for them. So the in-house debate, especially when it's regarding the more affordable end of the spectrum (Seiko, Orient etc.), I think that's what it's mostly about.
Our over-romanticized perception of the underdog brand and the awe towards their innovations, expertise and achievements (even if their caliber is below the luxury standard).
(I've already said this on the Facebook group, but wanted to add it to the discussion here)
Vostok is more “in house” than Tudor, that means nothing. The real contest is good vs bad movements, a well engineered, refined and accurate calibre is what separates horology from jewellery or fashion items.
Is nomos horology ?
I believe what all watch owners want, whether it be Rolex or Vostok, a reliable movement, that works. Better quality of materials & workmanship is a nice bonus
I find it charming that a Vostok carries it’s own brand caliber, even though it’s not as impressive or reliable as a JLC, it’s… fun I guess.
Well i would consider vostok horology even though its not particularly well engineered and accurate calibre. So its not that black or white imo
@@topelzmrzovalnik
I respect your opinion, but I just can’t see the appeal of cheap, utilitarian mechanical watches. I think that when the movement means nothing you’d be better served by a quartz.
Having an inhouse movement (or not having one) would not be a deciding factor for me personally. I'd rather have a watch with an external movement that offers the desired accuracy and functionality over an inhouse movement that may not have that- or maybe it would have it, but be much more expensive.
That being said, I do think brands should be transparent about their movements, giving consumers the option to make their own considerations.
Some people do value inhouse, others don't- but everybody values transparency.
Great video Teddy! I definitely feel I have been a bit biased in my initial watch passion and journey to in-house movements, but it’s important to see how ETA and other 3rd party movements can actually be a great choice for many users. Very informative and helpful as usual!
My man is here 😍
The in-house thing often makes me laugh - like it’s a luxury badge of honour. Same people seem to forget that Vostock, Seiko, Orient etc are significantly more ‘in-house’ in nearly every way than your mid-luxury Swiss/German stuff. Spending 1k more for the same watch from an Oris or Tudor because it has an in-house over the previous Selita is simply showing you have more money than sense. But each to their own of course!
Eta made the watch world pretty boring. Its like most watches 5k and below are using movements based on the ETA 2824.
At the same time, I was looking at that 1k new Chinese Tourbillon watch YT video, when they show the movement finishing under magnification, for cheap it is and quite a good price for the feature, it cannot match the beautiful movement finishing a more expensive watch will bring. Sure, it's a 1 to 20 (and more) price ratio and It's out of reach for many anyway but what is great with the watch world is that you can really enjoy a few of them' for wearing or collecting, in almost any budget category...
It is called having a taste, everybody has their own opinions and perceptions. Looks aren't all to having a watch for me. It is history and movements also play a role. It is simple you pay more because there is more effort put into that watch. Buying jewellery and spending money on hobbies rarely makes sense.
Great topic. I’m liking my Sellita internals in my Sinn’s to the ZF transmissions in our BMW’s. They sourced a component that works.
I think you nailed it!
So true ,and the zf is the best trans with a torque converter you can buy
😂
The Sellita internals will continue to work, as long as you don’t hand-wind that Sinn.
@@simonbailey2151 is there an issue with the winding?
Often people miss the point of having a watch that you simply enjoy. If you are buying and wearing a watch to impress others, you don’t have a standing with me.
Teddy, you've always been a fine analyst and a wise voice to all of us, but you've really stepped up the depth and originality of your content. It's exciting to watch you grow!
I started collecting, and really getting into watches just a few months ago. I just wanted to say thanks for such a clear and comprehensive education. This is one of many videos I've watched now. For that alone I'll always keep you in mind when purchasing.
That movement from Glasshutte sure was gorgeous. I paused to look more closely just because it was so beautiful. I'd pay extra for that if I had the money.
"Logic and luxury really intersect" wise quote.
TEDDY la qualité de ton contenu est magnifique. Continue ton beau travail c'est un plaisir de te suivre sur ta chaîne. From a french fan from Montréal Canada
Love this type of videos of yours Teddy. Very informative and generates discussion. Thanks!
Ted did a great job explaining the in house movements. I could not disagree with anything he said. He is very thorough and fair of his incite into all of the movements that are out there. Very well done explanation. Keep up the great work
Man... had to puase the video just to appreciate and thank for the beautiful macros in all your videos. Great way to appreciate the details with cinematographic feeling to it.
Once again a great topic presentation! Please continue with the excellent content with well balanced points of discussion. You are quickly becoming my top reasoned source for most things that are timepiece related. Thanks!
I've been wanting to know about this for a while. Thanks Teddy.
As usual, a great video. Thanks Teddy for sharing your expertise with watch lovers.
Thanks, Teddy, for this objective assessment of the differences between in-house and third-party movements.
Excellent video. Thoughtful and well presented. Thanks!
One of the best bang for buck in house movements is Baume and Mercier Baumatic 80hr Power Reserve Ton of value for the price and some stunning watches without insane price gouging
I love these educational & in-depth videos
Teddy, this was just an excellent discussion. Thanks!
Thank you teddy, I find this content to be very informative and entertaining
What a nice video Teddy. Thanks for all these beautiful movements.
Great video Teddy, thank you!
Thx for doing this Teddy! Very good dissecting and logical arguments! Keep up the good work and stay safe
I really love your ability to be objective. And super educational video buddy!
Great information and perspectives, Teddy. Thank you.
The snob value being attached to "in house" movements is a heaven-sent opportunity for manufacturers to capture a revenue stream that would previously have gone to independent watchmakers. If Comco hadn't placed restrictions on ETA, things might be different. In any event we are where we are, but I totally concur, Teddy, with your sentiments about people demonising ETA movements. The 2824 and 2892 are and were very fine movements that need no apologies. For context, I own watches with ETA, Valjoux, Zenith, Rolex and Omega movements, so I've no particular torch to carry for ETA. Great video on a topic that does deserve more debate.
Well put! As you also seem to have some first hand experience with those big names pf movements, may I ask which one has impressed you the most? I've heard people say Zeniths are quite remarkable, but I wonder if it's truly noticeable next to Rolex and Omega.
@@raven_of_zoso455 Rolex's movements probably have the best combination of accuracy, reliability and serviceability. But the 2892,2824 and 7750 are all very sound movements. The El Primero is a fine movement, but then so is a Rolex 4130. In general, in my experience, the most troublesome part of movements generally are the autowind systems, but then they are a heavily stressed component given that you are cantilevering a relatively heavy weight off a relatively small post/bearing system. I'm not really a fan of exhibition casebacks, so movement decoration doesn't really matter and personally, it's all about functionality for me.
@@costelloandsilke7321 thanks for a very informative answer! Yes, I too think ETA movements takes more crap than they deserve. Especially for someone who's life isn't on the line if the watch is not 99,9% accurate of what's possible. Service costs is something I do take into consideration when looking at new watches, but how much that factor weight in obviously vary depending what else the watch has to offer.
Also, I see you mentioned El Primero and Rolex 4130 there, two movements I which I think share a very interesting story of how complex it is to make a automatic cronograph movement. My only crono is mechanical, nothing more fancy than a Seagull, but the fact that it is a mechanical column wheel crono in a $250 watch is kinda crazy in its own way. As a true wristwatch rookie (still on a budget) this watch has brought me so much joy for the vast and wonderful world of horology.
@@raven_of_zoso455 You are welcome - enjoy your watch journey!
@@costelloandsilke7321 you bet, and same to you pal!
One of your best and most informative vids. Thanks.
Great video with lots of very useful info. Thanks Teddy :)
I frequently see this question posted on different watch forums. Teddy, you've explained it so well and so thoroughly that from now I'm just going to link this video for the OP. This video along with your recent "How To Tell If A Watch Is Well-Made" are invaluable to those new to the world of high-end watches.
Great video. You kind of talked about it, but I think people who value in-house movements fall into 2 camps. The first is in-house is better because of the prestige/commitment from the brand. The second is people prefer in-house movements because they are better for the watch than any available third party movement available, whether that is because it has increased power reserve, shock/magnetic residence, or because the geometry is better for the watch design, like Nomos positioning the date wheels for their in-house movements to match the design of the watch. I am definitely in the latter camp, but I understand the former
... yeah... Nomos couldn't just use an off the shelf movement with a custom wheel to get a different date. Gotta build an entirely new movement.
Finally, someone who talks about a difficult topic in luxury watches. I have tried to explain to friends who want to buy an automatic watch that they must pay attention to what it will cost to own the watch in terms of service and insurance.
Many people become too concerned about whether the watch has an in-house movement without fully understanding what it really means. I really liked the video. Hope first time buyers see this so they can make a better choice.
GREAT discussion. Watches are by mature technical and we deserve to have more direct technical discussions. The current Omega coaxial calibres all go back to a base 2892- nothing wrong with that. Plenty of brand new "in house" movements can have incredible teething pains. I would strongly recommend that you bring in a watchmaker for some "under the hood" discussions from their perspective.
Fantastic video and topic. I learned a lot. Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting video, Teddy! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for making this happen !
Ohhhh MATE! I’m working on a video about this right now!! Theo and Harris recently did sometjing quote similar as well which inspired me. I really appreciated your take Teddy! Balanced and informative as always!
Hope you aren't going to say Rolex have used in house movements for decades. As you probably know they only bought Aegler around 2004.
Fantastic video! Thanks for the deep dive.
As a side note, I would take a Seiko 4R movement over just about any automatic movement on the planet, for many, many reasons.
This was the best explanation video ever. This ideas have been rolling around in my head for years. Thank you for putting this together.
I am really interested in a Tudor that only has an eta movement, which kind of bugged me till now. I also did some research on the forums and found out that the service of the eta by tudor cost way less than their more modern movements, so now I’m good with this!🎉
Did you buy your Tudor?
Really informative video. This is the type content I really enjoy on You Tube. The older I get the more I want to learn about anything and everything.
A fascinating video and most informative.
Well put and comprehensive. Nice one Teddy
A great update on your video 7 months ago about different movements.
I think you covered a difficult and sometimes sensitive topic extremely well.
Thank you so much for this educational video!
I have not seen all your videos, but have seen a lot. As others reiterated this one rates near the top. Well done Teddy.
Nicely explained. Thank you Teddy.
Great topic. Thank you!
Great video. Excellent presentation and enlightening. I learned a lot. Keep it up. Thanks.
Teddy - thanks for dealing with this issue. I’m looking to get a mechanical watch and I keep coming across this very issue. I feel like ease of serviceability is a big deal. I’m seeing lots of ETA based movements in my price range and was getting hung up on them not being in house movements. You put my mind at ease.
Teddy, you provide great detailed watch info.
Excellent video. Very didatic. Helps understand the watch culture.
Great video !!! One of very best ! Thanks
Excellent video and explanation of the in-house movement vs third party movement. I really don’t care if it’s a in-house movement or third party movement when I’m buying a watch, I care about it’s capabilities, reliability and ease of service. Keep the good work my friend!
Wow. This is very insightful. Great videos! I think a portion of the customers who are against third part movement is because some brands like hublot, panerai, and frank muller charge extraneous premium for their extremely low cost movement. Other than that, I think most ppl will be fine spending 3-5k on a quality watch with eta movement.
Cosc certified sellita or ETA for me..great accuracy with affordable servicing....
Yes, Tedzilla. The video we needed! And I think you executed it very well. I think this will help a lot of people especially the youtubers with fast opinions who can influence a lot of people coming in to the space. This will make them make more informed opinions and decisions!
Nice video and very good explanation!!!!
Excellent, thorough video.
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
I avoid so many problems and headaches buying something simple as quartz Casio... I am very lucky to be actually happy with just a simple Casio watch..
Very in depth and common sense video !Very nice and very well explained! 10x
Eloquently put and well said.
Great video, super informative. I definitely changed my views on watch movements.
Excellent video. Of all my watches, the two with the best movements are both in-house. But I have no problem with an ETA or even an NH35A.
LOL - I'm in this video! I posted the "Why isn't 100m water resistance standard at this point?" thread on the Watchuseek clip at 2:22. Great content as always Teddy!
Excellent video: thank you for conceptualizing, and producing it! This has been a mystery for me, and You explained it in a pleasant, knowledgable way! i will take Your advice and go with watches that can be serviced almost anywhere...silly to do otherwise!!
I always like your videos from the start couse I’m 100% sure it’s gonna be great content 👏
Good video. Informative, objective and impartial.
Brilliant explanation!
The only movement I have ever had crap out on me was a Valjoux 7750. Cost me $350 to repair and now all is well in the universe. I think the benefit of a big name movement is that it is easier to get it repaired vs an in-house movement that could require expensive “in-house” repairs.
Same, my in house Frederique Constant cost £500 but my Oris only cost £250.
Beware falsely advertised service costs!
Lange advertise $1450 for a full movement 'overhaul', service and replacement of defective parts on a time only piece.
However, they claim the case could have been opened on my preowned watched, thats a blanket cost of €3,500, regardless of the mint condition.
They won't work on it for anything less.
Either the much lauded Lange service is outright falsely advertised or they hide the real costs of a true service.
Excellent video !
Hay Teddy I love your content and your communication skills are perfect for me so thanks.
I have bought my 2nd Longines. I love both of them and both are beautifully decorated. My new one is also COSC certified, whatever that means.
Thank you Teddy , about this subject . I think what makes difficult is that it is subjective but you knocked out the park . The reason I brought my Sinn 556i was because of the anti magnetic components , 26 jewels which help with friction , 20 bar , the extra decoration . The movement is 3rd party selita of the ETA but as good in my experience . So there for alot of watch for the money ( partly German engineering )
Teddy got me into watches. Love these videos.
Me too. He brought me back. My uncle bought me a Seiko 5 with a green dial way back when I was 10 years old. I remember that fondly and kinda forgot about that experience until I stumbled upon Teddy's youtube channel.
Excellent content, as usual! I often have to rewatch (see what I did there) your videos 2x or 3x just to absorb all the information. I strongly agree with the comment from another subscriber below- once I make that initial dive into that important watch (to me) it has to check all the boxes. From thereon, I scratched the itch. I’ll still buy quality but I can be happy with my purchase for any number of reasons and in-house movement or not will be less likely to inform my decision.
Thank you for being professional.
Great video. I’ve also started to see the term ‘Manufacturer Movement’ as a half way movement to fully in house. Personally I love non in house movements where they make sense. Take the Superocean 57. The ETA is perfect in that watch because it keeps the design slim, if Breitling used the B01 it would be too thick and the proportions would be all wrong…plus cheaper servicing so win/ win
most important things for me in a watch is value, reliability and repairability. don't care much about in-house or 3rd party. if i had the funds, i wouldn't mind paying for a simple patek, for say $50k. But if that same watch takes $13k to service, forget it. the same thinking translates to a $500 hamilton or a $50 casio.
Thank you Teddy… very good subject. You always find the best topics.
It’s true that some years ago we were more about the design without any interest of in house movement or not… now the first question we ask:
“ is it an in house movement…” no? Then it’s too expensive for an ETA or….
Wow. I was in this same doubt for 3 days. Now u got this topic.
This was a good topic haven’t really seen any other of the bigs talk about this.
I watched a video of the service/restoration of a vintage Vacheron Constantin and although the movement is a piece of art, you'd truly have to be very well off to be able to afford to service or repair such a thing of beauty (let alone buy!) 🤩
Nicely done.
loved the video, very helpful..
Great video....the reason i bought my tudor was the 70 hr reserve and being titanium...i work in restaurants and needed a watch that would take a beating
Good video. Enjoyed it. Thanks
So, if i buy a Swatch owned watch, then the ETA system automatically becomes "in-house". Win/Win, cheap and prestigious :D
Swatch just bought ETA, I think you need to watch the video again you clearly were not listening.
@@CH-yp5by well not true eta been under swatch ownership for a while now but if eta stops selling to third party and only to their group and watch brands under their umbrella then it’s partially true that movement in house but not the ones already been made and sold throughout the years but newer more heavily modified eta movements and only used by swatch companies other than that they can’t be called in house
Inhouse also means it is MANUFACTURED by the company, not just designed and assembled by them.
There are ( so called ) Inhouse movements that are supplied by someone else. Tudor's " inhouse " movements are made by Kenissi, for example.
In reality, there are relatively few manufacturers that truly make everything inhouse these days.
very good as always video...
Great job 👊💪
Christopher Ward's magazine Loupe just did an article about this as well, and came to many of the same conclusions. "In-house" is a marketing term that people have fallen for... My CWs with Sellita movements, or my Damasko with an ETA, are better than Seikos at the same price range.
My old Chevy Colorado had a Mitsubishi alternator... It didn't make the truck bad, or not Chevy, it was just an expert part from a reputable manufacturer. GM openly advertises Allison transmissions in their heavy duty trucks for the same reason.
The 5.9 Cummins is so celebrated in Dodge trucks. Never figured out why it was the other way round in watches.
Well said, my ZL1 has a Tremec transmission as do most high performance high powered cars for its ability to handle so much horsepower and this is proudly advertised. Tremec specializes in high performance transmissions its all they do so GM decided to defer to the specialists and give their clients a high quality reliable transmission in their Higher performance Camaro’s and Corvettes. Ask Ford Mustangs GT owners about their “In House Manufactured” transmission wowes. My point being “In House Manufactured” doesn’t always mean better. I do appreciate the R and D and additional time to manufacture the movement in house so that will obviously increase the cost of the watch which is understandable but there is nothing wrong with a tried tested and proven reliable movement that has been outsourced and often times adjusted to the current watch manufacturers specifications prior to being put into their watch…….sorry for another car analogy but…..Toyota Supra which is a BMW Z4 but Toyota has arguably made it an even better overall car/driving experience.