Yes, it's fair and fun. There's no need to rethink it, or else it will not be used and cloaking devices will get an indirect buff. Knowing someone might be already seeing you through walls makes it so you stay on the move, which makes camping harder. So yeah, recon senses are perfect the way they are.
He did not went in depth with the bloodhound from apex comparision. It is basically the same abilite but with all the downsides to prevent BS removed from the bloodhound version. There is no indication you are being walled by it; there is no downside in showing your direction/position from where the scan is coming from; it lasts way longer in a lower cooldown. It has much more range; The only thing the bloohound one is better is giving info to your teamates without call outs. If this does not get changed, get ready for a cancer wallhack meta.
The problem I have with Recon is that it gives a hacker an "excuse" to be able to cheat. If you get blatantly killed by wall hacks, you can't even tell a hacker from a legit player. That's TERRIBLE design implementation.
I agree it’s totally apparent when teams run recon sense because they roll the lobby and always know when to 3rd party. At a high level that will just ruin the meta and the core concept of the game. Rotating and sieging should be where the skill gap comes from not this.
Blacklight Retribution gave everyone wallhacks, and the way they balanced it was by making it where you put your weapon away when using it, so you were defenseless. Could help with things, but this is also a slower game than that was
Rework it. Make it a 2 charge scan that tracks for 2 seconds and the whole team can see it. Everyone scanned would also get the detected signal on their screen
I’ve been saying the recon seems a bit over tuned as a light player because no matter how much work I try to put in to outplay a recon sense medium it feels as though all my work is useless with my low hp and being able to tracked trough walls easily(this feels especially overwhelming when there are 3 mediums doing the same thing) I could run and hide and they’d still find me lol
Perhaps it could give pulses instead of real time walls. So that you could still use it to position well but it was weaker in a peak shot duel like seriously playing cover with the revolver and knowing exactly when the opponent peaks is very underrated. The main problem is it doesn’t really fit the mediums class identity. Light is the fragger, medium is the support, heavy is the frontline tank. I suppose it can be argued that medium is the midline between light and heavy with its weapon selection and gadgets for movement and team play. I think giving it charges and allowing your whole team to see the pings would bring it more in line with a support gadget.
Totally agree. I started using this because I saw the diamond players doing so. But it's so iffy. I don't know how to feel about it. Really hard to counter.
@@dace6the counter is stay with your team, and have your own scouting tools, like recon grenades or thermal vision. You could also use glitch gadgets or the lights sun gun
Yes give the AR class a ability which simply equates to WALL HACKS, making it even harder to discern cheaters from actual players, it removes cloaking lights and many other movement things to suprise enemies and just removes a ton of depth from the game allowing you to go "solo killer" instead of team playing, yes you can do call outs but still most players just use it to get kills. This ability needs to NOT have map wide range rather like 10-15 meters range and not discern players from which team they are, this way making it more reasonable of a skill.
Good summary. It's a completely unfun mechanic and ridiculous that they thought it was a good idea in the first place. As the game's so new it's taken most people a while to realise there are literal built in wallhacks but the problem is now starting to become apparent. Let's hope it gets addressed.
The whole thing is that to make recon sense good, the user has to have good gun skills, and removes their support feature, which is dangerous. In the long haul, it’s just as balanced as being able to heal teammates
It's good its in the game... adding in-game cheats counters actual cheats because now all players at least have a more equal playing field... they just need to make Recon work exactly like Thermal vision... problem solved IMO....
I think you could fix both invisibility and recon senses by just mailing them not able to be toggled. If you pop it, you have to wait for a cooldown to use it again. So it makes you super powered but only for a short while. Which I think is the point of all the abilities in the game.
as much as i agree that invisiblity needs counters i think its just a bad experience for all enemies since it counters everybody who runs behind walls without them even knowing@@altheneryttv5825
This reminds me of terrible Apex scan meta, tbh both rework ideas are good, i think the R6:Siege heart monitor would be a better fit for the whole gadget idea of the game, good vid, keep it up
On top of the two rework ideas you gave, i'd add: 1- The inability to detect invisible players, because it currently makes it pointless. Just spot the light and tell your team. 2- The inability to detect players standing still, so there's actually counterplay to the ability. That would make it more information focused, so you can spot enemy rotations and tell your team, but you can't find people holding a point of hiding if they're standing still. And from your ideas, i lean more to the ping that emanates from you through the map. It could work like a global Sonar Grenade where the enemies are notified when they're detected, they can see the detection lines going through the map and the entire medium's team can see the detected players (that makes premades less powerful since you currently need to tell your teammates the info manually and most randoms either don's talk or stay out of voice chat). Also, being able to see the detection lines can give away your position if you use it recklessly.
Another great vid, I agree 100%. I also think a pulse based ability would be the way to go so you have an idea without being able to constantly track enemies. I don't like the idea of making it a gadget was we already have sonar nades and tracking dart. Completely removing it in favor of something else is also not a bad option but I don't think it should be their first way to try and balance/address the skill.
Hey! I remember you lol! I meant gadget as in something you take out and use like the heal gun, sorry about that. I agree though! And thank you for watching another one of my videos!
Well said. Would love to see a rework as recon's only redeeming factor is that it generally speeds the game up, but it's oppressive and anti-fun in its current state. Whenever anything is too strong, you feel someone on your team HAS TO run it, taking away options :(
it is not just an opinion. You are spot on. A wallhack is not a good thing for this type of game since it eliminates all mind games and givs you near perfect info. It also devalues other recon abilities that are more visible to the other teams.
Sonar grenades are not complained about. Throwing them lets the enemies know you are scanning them and have been detected. Make Recon throw out giant sonars like the grenade variant. Use it to get valuable info but everyone knows they have been spotted. Also Smoke grenades should become a counter. If you sit inside smoke then sonars cannot see you.
Lights thermal makes it so you can't look through smg Scope 😢 it glitches when you are invisible. Also kinda not worth just to find invisible lights if you ask me. lights recon gadgets not super worth it either if you ask me it lacks range even with haveing two of them perhaps if you could throw it further into a building or something as well idk. But I like the idea of recon on a light rather than on the medium. The invisible grenade don't last long so I never use that thing.
Used this the other day to get a daily quest done (I usually play light) and was baffled when I learned not only can you use it with your weapon out but it's map wide. A bunch of really suspicious deaths I've had made sooooo much more sense. I DO think that it has its place in the game for countering invis but it should probably have some sort of counter play like the other specializations.
Recon and cloak go hand in hand. Rework both, nerf both or remove both. Playing medium without recon vs good light players is awful. The light player can walk straight past your two heavy bodyguards and onetap you every single time.
i start to use recon bc invis. and now i use recon. but tbh it's not that good every time. or least to me, i don't know why i don't see shit. but yeah help many situations too.
Who'd have thought a wall hack would make things.. controversial. Its a fun ability but it screws with strategy and fairplay. Silhouettes are too defined, range is too far, cool down is too short... All with no counter or warning
I love your idea to turn recon into a sort of binocular you would have to activate. Would be a great way to balance this specialisation, as the main problem right now is that you Can shoot while using it.
My idea was making it can only see people through 1 wall/obstruction, but as soon as theres more than 1 thing between you and the recon senses player, he can't see you.
It is the only specialization I dread playing against. I find it really discourages any kind of creative or interesting plays because the enemy always knows what you are up to. There is no counter to map hacks lmao. Maybe if when you use it, it reveals your position too or something like that. Or like you said a short pulse could be better.
I think it should be a scan, almost like an infinite range sonar grenade from your position, which pings faster and for longer than the sonar. The Sonar is a good balance, straight up wall hacks is not.
I've got about 60 hours in the game and I still haven't tried recon sense. I always go with the heal ray and defibs, so important especially when i've got a heavy on my team
nothing wrong with heal beam, its equally as important as recon which is why having both of them is ideal one thing no one says is that you can guarantee a squad wipe when you kill 2 out of the 3 enemy members, its important to not let the rat escape to extend your leads/grief them
I played one game of ranked where i had to spend the entire match trying to explain to my teammate why the enemy medium was prefiring us and that it's actually not cheating. And he didn't understand in the end
Now I agree with the changes you suggested, but a fun thing I would like them to add is to make it so goo can block recon sense if you are on the other side.
I don't get to play all that much but recently have been noticing more and more recon. When I tested it in the practice room it was crap. Definitely works differently in a match. I kept wondering if people were hacking or I just sucked at rotation but it's recon senses. It's way way too much Intel at range.
They could keep it as a specialization and just have you pull out a scope thing like you said and be able to ping enemies. While this won't fix some of the problems like you finding that guy in the elevator, (Although having a small section of you screen to see through will lower the likelihood of you stumbling upon someone hiding) It would prevent hyper-agressive plays and shots like that revolver shot because it would take time to pull out the utility and put it away.
Played it for the first time yesterday, instant ranked tournament win lol... With a healer behind recon its absolutely unstoppable. I think it would be ok if you have to whip out a gadget, but with the gun out it is indeed op. Your example clips show the problem quite well. ShawkR6 has good videos where no one can deny its op af
I agree that Recon senses could use some tweaking. As for countering it, the only thing that comes to mind is smoke grenades, although they're not a strong counter. I need to do more testing. From my experience, it seemed like the Recon's abilities didnt work when I was surrounded by smoke.
I think it’s fair. They actually buffed it recently. I wouldn’t mind if they went back to what it was before the buff. But people need to stop worrying about stuff like this. Recon has been around since the beginning of this game pre release and no one has complained about it really. People were using heal and turrets a lot too. We start nerfing stuff too hard then we just have other over powered specialist abilities on other classes we need to start nerfing too. Like cloak. I’m fine with how the game plays at the current moment.
Recon sense is great and needs to be kept how it is, I don’t use it but the game is fun on how it is, you are suppose to be able to seem people through wallls without them knowing that’s the point ! Sounds crazy but that’s the finals brother there’s invisible people running around like what???
Maybe make recon make a very loud sound, this way you know when someone is scanning for you. It's like the sonar, the game indicates you're being detected. So perhaps something to offer counter play with a noteable audio cue?
All that will do is let you know they can see you but you still won't be able to do f**k all about it. Apart from you will know they are still chasing you even though you already know that because of the millions of bullets continuously flying past your head.
Everything got a counter, every player has something they think is op, like invis shotty for me but i accept it being there because it is balanced well compared to other games
It should just have a longer cooldown and louder sound effect tbh, reduncing the range would just make it lose its team utility Maybe the detected text would help too Edit: bad english lmao
I'm actually not sure how Embark thought this was a fair ability lol. It's literally infinite wall hacks. Not even Bloodhound, Seer, Sombra has something like this. Not even Call of Duty has abilities that are as unfair as this.
done w/ this game til this gets removed or reworked. no clue why developers think wallhacks are fun. shit has taken a fun game and made it beyond boring & stale. every match is the same BS.
I guess its OP if your playing with MLG Doritos stained gamers because most recons on my team never even bother pinging.Id rather have a healing beam 9/10 times.
I think it's not so OP. Making it shorter or longer range only or cooldown/length would fix it. Main problem here is that light classes feel toxic to play as, with and against. Lights really need rework in my opinion so countering them with heavy or recon won't be needed at all. There is lot to talk about them, but once again I think MHH/MMH meta is not because lights are bad, it's because they are annoying for both teammates and enemies.
I personally disagree this is just my opinion respectfully The only thing that makes Lights toxic for Most people is cloak when counters to cloak exist within every class There are other annoying things like glitch nades and tazers but other than that a lot of lights weapon variety isnt as effective as other classes Thermal vis for light v light Sonar nade and Recon for Sense High HP and Rpg for Heavy as well 2 other 1 shot/near 1 shot weapons
@@ospuze I don't think the entire class of light needs a rework. imo the design of a glass cannon fly that can counter a lot of abilities is good. But you know some stuff probably should get changed
Lights are not the issue right now. You can hear cloak activate and deactivate, and when it's on it hums like a chainsaw. A single tick of damage cancels it, plus recon/sonar/thermal completely nullify it. Even if you don't like playing against them lights are not nearly as harsh to play against as c4 nukes or recon.
I didn't say that light class is strong, it is annoying to everyone in match. Enemies of light should always be aware of snipers, melee ambushes, no sound weapons and always to be on guard of invis. While lights teammates are always unable to respawn them cause any light archetype dies in a very unaccesable poaition. Your teammate is sniper? So, please go climb a crane to revive. Your teammate is melee light? His body is near to a fresh cashout station so wipe enemy team 2v3 or wait for them to cashout to revive! e.t.c. Invisibility is not a problem for me at all. I have seen this type of invisibility so many times in games. I can spot invis player easier then a non-invis one because invis souns is much more position readable as well as it is not total invis. Invis should be buffed or better reworked the first! Like you can't sprint but can revive and use throwables without breaking cloak. Hookshot is really fun, so don't really know about it. Dashes is really a thing. If you use them perfectly it is 100% won 1v1, but higher the rank, the harder it is to find a 1v1. I think making it a chain-use ability removing charges with low cd would make it not so reliable in 1v1, but more useful in moving through map and re-engaging teamfights. Shotgun is fine for everyone, M11 I think is pretty class respective as a hit-run-hit weapon, maybe a little bit weak cause of alternative. Sniper rifle seems like problematic one but glitch nade fixes all it's player perspective problems. Sword's plunge is really bad and unusable without current dashes. Dagger is really the "one" weapon, it's mechanic with dashes shouls not exist (pre-fire answer NOT BECAUSE IT'S STRONG BECAUSE IT LOOKS CLUNKY TO BE KILLED BY OR TO KILL SOMEONE WITH BACKSTAB WHILE LOOKING SOMEWHERE ELSE IN FPS GAME). Nobody just wants to play with/against lights they are too random for now.
Nerf abilities in general. Recon Cloaking Mesh Shield they all too powerful. Sonar grenade is fine, bubble shield is fine, even vanishing bomb is fine. Its just the abilities that all 3 are too strong
recon need to be a tablet you pull out and give you clear intell on where people are within a 100meter radius of the player not unlimited. i love medium but i know this is too strong also not a light hater but a rat hater pls pls pls make the cloak have a 5 second reactivation cooldown so people cant just pop out of stealth double barrel shotgun and insta cloak out of sight half the time there is so much noise going on you cant hear the cloak noise until it's too late
It doesn’t need a nerf you just need to learn play through it and learn how to out play them every class has their own meta set up and in the right hands a very skilled player can make any setup OP on any class just look at weapons that aren’t used very often and these pro/ very skilled players make the game look easy.
Remove recon sense and cloak because those abilities allow for you to shoot first as long as you are using it and I don’t think those belong in this game and will always feel extremely unfair to play against also those 2 abilities have unlimited uptime if you use them correctly
Recon got buried with the new update making it now that people see the detection tag when they get pinged by recon senses and the range is now only people that are 30m in range of you. It didn’t need this much of a nerf honestly like a nerf would’ve been fine making it so you couldn’t see people across map but let’s be honest the move didn’t directly kill you it just made it to where you could you be sneaky enough to get in close and kill your opponent. Imma just say this tho if they could nerf that then they can invisibility for lights and nerf that stun gun again as well as nerf the flame thrower and nerf the damage or accuracy on the guardian turret Sorry not sorry
I'm going to have to passionately disagree with the statement that "Embark has done a very good job with the balancing." I love The Finals but the game is more unbalanced than Overwatch. If I play 10 games of ranked I'm likely to see like 60 mediums, 25 heavys, and 5 lights. Also each class has a majority of horrible weapons and gadgets, and a few good ones.
Hi there, yeah like you said "This ability makes Finals more like deathmatch" - and this is totally piece of meat like bad!!! I wanted team to work like a team, not like some dude walking and running a solo run for a KILLS - this game not about this. I want Embark to cut, to nerf, to demolish this recon spec from the game idk how - but it's really frustrating for me as a teamplayer. Thanks for video!
When everyone is using it its a joke. I want it removed from the game entirely. Recon senses in this game is the devs giving us an unbannable wall hack. Get rid of it. Or monumental nerf on range and time it can be used. I've even started pooling recon users together with cheaters. After dealing with ranked recon senses users for the past few days, today is the 1st day I can't even be bothered playing it. Recon senses has caused me to have to take a break. EMBARK could have a problem on their hands that makes them lose a big chunk of players. All of your opinions are correct. I've played every single day since release and love the game. Other people using recon senses is the one reason I won't be playing today. Try again tomorrow for a few games and if the same uninstall until change is made. Im on the brink of platinum but keep falling back to 8000 points out of the 9000 because of continuous 1st round knocouts due to every single game having 1 or 2 teams of mediums all running recon. Im surprised the devs didnt run a full squad of recon in testing because surely they would have realised its not good to go up against. I have to suffer randoms as a solo aswell so that combined is a game killer for me.
If this ability is not removed from the game I will delete the game. No competitive game should have such talent. It kills all the fun of the game. How can you fight someone who sees where you are from behind a wall? And how can this game be enjoyable? bullshit.
All those ending clips were situations where someone ran towards your footsteps or fighting your teammates. There was one clip where you shot some guy through fire but that was in the midst of a team fight so he could have heard that recon sense. You’re extremely close to all these people and they just aren’t reacting. We just need better matchmaking so better players aren’t pooping on super casuals
@@ospuze fair enough lol 😂 well that makes it a bias but I feel it’s you’re bringing like to the conversation. & hey they did nerf it but realistically more changes need to come.
I like to have fun not only when I make a clutch using recon senses, but also when I manage to outwit a team of three mediums with this ability and win the tournament. All the best :)
EVERYONE is missing the objective. Play. As. A. Team ! There’s stuff to counter everything in the game. Btw C4 barrel elim is a Steam achievement, best of luck getting that patched
I only use recon senses now to spot those little mosquitoes with the cloak. I love games with no radar so I feel dirty using this but 90% lights crutch with the cloak ability so I gotta adjust accordingly. I say get rid of the cloak and recon abilities altogether.
i just hate. everytime i start use something. then it's need nerf etc. i feel all go down to drain after everything is nerf don't you guy's see everything is always op if someone know how to use it
bad take in the first 5 minutes man has done nothing with it like hes saying and why is all these team fights 1v1 team fights how lucky are you to get these lobbies?
Its already been nerfed, issues with the game now are most of heavies guns are bad (m60, lewis, flamethrower) and lights cloaking shotgun combo with tazer is too braindead. I'm sure there is more but imo the game got worse after full launch
@@EmpReb turns out, maybe I didn't, considering they nerfed cloak's recharge time and buffed recon (this was going to be my suggestion in the response I opted not to send to you because I think you missed the point...)
When I'm making content, I'm thinking a lot about newer players, too. There are some people that love recon sense and think it's a good thing for the game. While I agree with you and think it's ruining the game, the only thing I can do is express my opinion and let others formulate their own.
@@ospuzeit’s not ironically. Heal or turret was meta now everyone thinks recon meta meanwhile lights glitch grenade just sits their laughing at everyone only thinking medium and heavy.
It has to be removed from the game, not balanced. Wallhacks are the bane of FPS games for 2 decades. That or they should make it press the button once and it drains down then long cooldown.
i disagree, EAC is a joke and without community servers with real moderators we will have to play with cheaters and without recon you don't have a chance no matter how good you are. also alot of the clips shown in this video was you fighting lights and none of them was using dash. for a light invis you are their direct counter, but if they were running dash they could wide peak and taze. really it's not recon that's op it that the scout/healer class is also the main dps class, and unless they running LH1 and only get headshots on you your ttk will always be better. i main light and if i find myself 1v1ing a recon fcar i'll bait them in circles until their ability runs out and if i don't feel confident i can beat them i just wont fight them. unless it's vegas they wont catch me
Build in wall hack is wack , invis complainer need to have their skill check or spec or eye ball&ear . Don't need to do too much math , brainless burn recon sense is 8s duration 16s cd . Wait till you see the game become triple premade squad medium rotate their recon duty scaring all-time with defib and under radar ap turret .
Cloak is countered by light's thermal vision, medium's sonar grenade and tracking dart, fire DoT, gas, turrets once they start shooting you. It can be heard clearly when the user is cloacking and it's easy to see if you pay attention. Even if the light successfully uses his cloak and stuns you from behind you can win the 1v1 because he's so squishy. Cloak is not that strong once you know how it works.
Yes, it's fair and fun. There's no need to rethink it, or else it will not be used and cloaking devices will get an indirect buff. Knowing someone might be already seeing you through walls makes it so you stay on the move, which makes camping harder. So yeah, recon senses are perfect the way they are.
He did not went in depth with the bloodhound from apex comparision. It is basically the same abilite but with all the downsides to prevent BS removed from the bloodhound version.
There is no indication you are being walled by it; there is no downside in showing your direction/position from where the scan is coming from; it lasts way longer in a lower cooldown.
It has much more range;
The only thing the bloohound one is better is giving info to your teamates without call outs.
If this does not get changed, get ready for a cancer wallhack meta.
The problem I have with Recon is that it gives a hacker an "excuse" to be able to cheat. If you get blatantly killed by wall hacks, you can't even tell a hacker from a legit player. That's TERRIBLE design implementation.
I agree it’s totally apparent when teams run recon sense because they roll the lobby and always know when to 3rd party. At a high level that will just ruin the meta and the core concept of the game. Rotating and sieging should be where the skill gap comes from not this.
Blacklight Retribution gave everyone wallhacks, and the way they balanced it was by making it where you put your weapon away when using it, so you were defenseless. Could help with things, but this is also a slower game than that was
either make it a scan every 3-4 seconds or have it so you cant use your weapon while using recon. like healing beam you have to switch to and use it
Rework it. Make it a 2 charge scan that tracks for 2 seconds and the whole team can see it. Everyone scanned would also get the detected signal on their screen
Exactly! Like a global Sonar Grenade. I'd also suggest not detecting invisible or standing still players for more counterplay.
@@JAOResnik but the invisibility is already strong, if you cant detect it how can you fight it?
@@JAOResnik naw keep it tracking since everything else sonar based hits cloak this should too. I like the standing still idea
Yes like the Ping from Tom Clancy's The Division
make light invisiblity duration shorter too than or more visible
I’ve been saying the recon seems a bit over tuned as a light player because no matter how much work I try to put in to outplay a recon sense medium it feels as though all my work is useless with my low hp and being able to tracked trough walls easily(this feels especially overwhelming when there are 3 mediums doing the same thing) I could run and hide and they’d still find me lol
Perhaps it could give pulses instead of real time walls. So that you could still use it to position well but it was weaker in a peak shot duel like seriously playing cover with the revolver and knowing exactly when the opponent peaks is very underrated. The main problem is it doesn’t really fit the mediums class identity. Light is the fragger, medium is the support, heavy is the frontline tank. I suppose it can be argued that medium is the midline between light and heavy with its weapon selection and gadgets for movement and team play. I think giving it charges and allowing your whole team to see the pings would bring it more in line with a support gadget.
Totally agree. I started using this because I saw the diamond players doing so. But it's so iffy. I don't know how to feel about it. Really hard to counter.
you cant counter it lol
@@dace6the counter is stay with your team, and have your own scouting tools, like recon grenades or thermal vision. You could also use glitch gadgets or the lights sun gun
Yes give the AR class a ability which simply equates to WALL HACKS, making it even harder to discern cheaters from actual players, it removes cloaking lights and many other movement things to suprise enemies and just removes a ton of depth from the game allowing you to go "solo killer" instead of team playing, yes you can do call outs but still most players just use it to get kills.
This ability needs to NOT have map wide range rather like 10-15 meters range and not discern players from which team they are, this way making it more reasonable of a skill.
Good summary. It's a completely unfun mechanic and ridiculous that they thought it was a good idea in the first place. As the game's so new it's taken most people a while to realise there are literal built in wallhacks but the problem is now starting to become apparent. Let's hope it gets addressed.
It’s a counter to invisible , I think invisible it’s way to op if there is no recon
The whole thing is that to make recon sense good, the user has to have good gun skills, and removes their support feature, which is dangerous. In the long haul, it’s just as balanced as being able to heal teammates
It's good its in the game... adding in-game cheats counters actual cheats because now all players at least have a more equal playing field... they just need to make Recon work exactly like Thermal vision... problem solved IMO....
I think you could fix both invisibility and recon senses by just mailing them not able to be toggled. If you pop it, you have to wait for a cooldown to use it again. So it makes you super powered but only for a short while. Which I think is the point of all the abilities in the game.
as much as i agree that invisiblity needs counters i think its just a bad experience for all enemies since it counters everybody who runs behind walls without them even knowing@@altheneryttv5825
This reminds me of terrible Apex scan meta, tbh both rework ideas are good, i think the R6:Siege heart monitor would be a better fit for the whole gadget idea of the game, good vid, keep it up
That would be perfect imo! Pulse is a classic!
On top of the two rework ideas you gave, i'd add:
1- The inability to detect invisible players, because it currently makes it pointless. Just spot the light and tell your team.
2- The inability to detect players standing still, so there's actually counterplay to the ability. That would make it more information focused, so you can spot enemy rotations and tell your team, but you can't find people holding a point of hiding if they're standing still.
And from your ideas, i lean more to the ping that emanates from you through the map. It could work like a global Sonar Grenade where the enemies are notified when they're detected, they can see the detection lines going through the map and the entire medium's team can see the detected players (that makes premades less powerful since you currently need to tell your teammates the info manually and most randoms either don's talk or stay out of voice chat). Also, being able to see the detection lines can give away your position if you use it recklessly.
In other words you are a light player who wants to sit still and shoot them in the back. Got it.
what you are asking for is to make it useless! a sonar granade is way more usefull that a recon that can't see invisible or campers...
Another great vid, I agree 100%. I also think a pulse based ability would be the way to go so you have an idea without being able to constantly track enemies. I don't like the idea of making it a gadget was we already have sonar nades and tracking dart. Completely removing it in favor of something else is also not a bad option but I don't think it should be their first way to try and balance/address the skill.
Hey! I remember you lol! I meant gadget as in something you take out and use like the heal gun, sorry about that. I agree though!
And thank you for watching another one of my videos!
Well said. Would love to see a rework as recon's only redeeming factor is that it generally speeds the game up, but it's oppressive and anti-fun in its current state. Whenever anything is too strong, you feel someone on your team HAS TO run it, taking away options :(
Nah just use heal with sonar grenades instead of recon, it's 10x better and your teammates can see the ability
it is not just an opinion. You are spot on. A wallhack is not a good thing for this type of game since it eliminates all mind games and givs you near perfect info. It also devalues other recon abilities that are more visible to the other teams.
Sonar grenades are not complained about. Throwing them lets the enemies know you are scanning them and have been detected.
Make Recon throw out giant sonars like the grenade variant. Use it to get valuable info but everyone knows they have been spotted.
Also Smoke grenades should become a counter. If you sit inside smoke then sonars cannot see you.
Lights thermal makes it so you can't look through smg Scope 😢 it glitches when you are invisible. Also kinda not worth just to find invisible lights if you ask me. lights recon gadgets not super worth it either if you ask me it lacks range even with haveing two of them perhaps if you could throw it further into a building or something as well idk. But I like the idea of recon on a light rather than on the medium. The invisible grenade don't last long so I never use that thing.
Used this the other day to get a daily quest done (I usually play light) and was baffled when I learned not only can you use it with your weapon out but it's map wide. A bunch of really suspicious deaths I've had made sooooo much more sense. I DO think that it has its place in the game for countering invis but it should probably have some sort of counter play like the other specializations.
Recon and cloak go hand in hand. Rework both, nerf both or remove both. Playing medium without recon vs good light players is awful. The light player can walk straight past your two heavy bodyguards and onetap you every single time.
i start to use recon bc invis. and now i use recon. but tbh it's not that good every time. or least to me, i don't know why i don't see shit. but yeah help many situations too.
you are bronze stuck yeah? cloak is so weak right now
@@cxnvn4043 you do realize that post was 2 weeks ago?
@@Octopoess yeah you’re still bronze or no
@@cxnvn4043 xd
Who'd have thought a wall hack would make things.. controversial.
Its a fun ability but it screws with strategy and fairplay. Silhouettes are too defined, range is too far, cool down is too short... All with no counter or warning
You’re right. Ranked is actually not rank-based but sbmm.
I love your idea to turn recon into a sort of binocular you would have to activate. Would be a great way to balance this specialisation, as the main problem right now is that you Can shoot while using it.
My idea was making it can only see people through 1 wall/obstruction, but as soon as theres more than 1 thing between you and the recon senses player, he can't see you.
1000 subs! Let’s go ABOP, I found you a week ago, I enjoy the content a lot. Deserved!
Let's goooo!!! Thank you! I can't believe it!
It is the only specialization I dread playing against. I find it really discourages any kind of creative or interesting plays because the enemy always knows what you are up to.
There is no counter to map hacks lmao.
Maybe if when you use it, it reveals your position too or something like that. Or like you said a short pulse could be better.
The problem with the short burst is that the recon grenade already does that
I think it should be a scan, almost like an infinite range sonar grenade from your position, which pings faster and for longer than the sonar. The Sonar is a good balance, straight up wall hacks is not.
2:18 Lil bud really said "RECON THIS BOZO"
I was outplayed hard!! I can't even be mad, lol. Nice eye!
Good video man
I've got about 60 hours in the game and I still haven't tried recon sense. I always go with the heal ray and defibs, so important especially when i've got a heavy on my team
Don't ever let meta ever stop you from being a good classic healer! 💪 We need more people like you!
I was like that until I ran into a high rank premade running it and decided to test it out myself. Can't put into words how op it is.
nothing wrong with heal beam, its equally as important as recon which is why having both of them is ideal
one thing no one says is that you can guarantee a squad wipe when you kill 2 out of the 3 enemy members, its important to not let the rat escape to extend your leads/grief them
Recon senses should work like a single use scan instead. Press the button, it highlights enemies within a certain range, and then goes on cooldown.
Invis should work just like that
I played one game of ranked where i had to spend the entire match trying to explain to my teammate why the enemy medium was prefiring us and that it's actually not cheating. And he didn't understand in the end
Send him the link 😁
They should increase the contrast on recon but make it not work against cloak. This would add counter play and a reason for L to exist.
I don't think it's too op, it just defeats the purpose of teamplay since most players don't even communicate by using voice chat or ping ennemies..
lol someone put this on the finals subreddit
It was me 😁
Now I agree with the changes you suggested, but a fun thing I would like them to add is to make it so goo can block recon sense if you are on the other side.
Ohhh, that would be awesome. As if it's made of a radar blocker material!
Give that ability to smoke grenades I think. Goo gun users like myself would be even more annoying on close range cashouts like Skyway's evelator.
Recon gonna get hit hard this week my dudes ❤
So glad recon is getting a rework in the next patch.
I can't wait until I can mark this video as outdated!
I don't get to play all that much but recently have been noticing more and more recon. When I tested it in the practice room it was crap. Definitely works differently in a match. I kept wondering if people were hacking or I just sucked at rotation but it's recon senses. It's way way too much Intel at range.
They could keep it as a specialization and just have you pull out a scope thing like you said and be able to ping enemies. While this won't fix some of the problems like you finding that guy in the elevator, (Although having a small section of you screen to see through will lower the likelihood of you stumbling upon someone hiding) It would prevent hyper-agressive plays and shots like that revolver shot because it would take time to pull out the utility and put it away.
%100!
Longer cool down, smaller radius. Done. Now let’s talk about that invis spam bullishhhhh
Played it for the first time yesterday, instant ranked tournament win lol... With a healer behind recon its absolutely unstoppable.
I think it would be ok if you have to whip out a gadget, but with the gun out it is indeed op. Your example clips show the problem quite well. ShawkR6 has good videos where no one can deny its op af
Maybe a distance (10-15 meters- 30-50 feets) how far its possible to see with recon would help.
I think the "detected" notification is needed. Otherwise it has no counter, which is bs
Everyone in the lobby is gonna have a perma detected text box on their screen
Maybe a ping and direction indicator like damage shows on your screen
I agree that Recon senses could use some tweaking. As for countering it, the only thing that comes to mind is smoke grenades, although they're not a strong counter. I need to do more testing. From my experience, it seemed like the Recon's abilities didnt work when I was surrounded by smoke.
The counter is glitch gadgets or stun gun. Alternatively just explode them
This could be huge
yea, medium was support class so i think its ok for recon
I think it’s fair. They actually buffed it recently. I wouldn’t mind if they went back to what it was before the buff. But people need to stop worrying about stuff like this. Recon has been around since the beginning of this game pre release and no one has complained about it really. People were using heal and turrets a lot too. We start nerfing stuff too hard then we just have other over powered specialist abilities on other classes we need to start nerfing too. Like cloak. I’m fine with how the game plays at the current moment.
Wait till you go against a top 10k premade running recon senses
Recon sense is great and needs to be kept how it is, I don’t use it but the game is fun on how it is, you are suppose to be able to seem people through wallls without them knowing that’s the point ! Sounds crazy but that’s the finals brother there’s invisible people running around like what???
Maybe make recon make a very loud sound, this way you know when someone is scanning for you. It's like the sonar, the game indicates you're being detected. So perhaps something to offer counter play with a noteable audio cue?
All that will do is let you know they can see you but you still won't be able to do f**k all about it. Apart from you will know they are still chasing you even though you already know that because of the millions of bullets continuously flying past your head.
Everything got a counter, every player has something they think is op, like invis shotty for me but i accept it being there because it is balanced well compared to other games
The only people who enjoy wall hacks are the ones using them. It really should be reserved to either a grenade, mine, turret, or scope gadget. ✌️
It should just have a longer cooldown and louder sound effect tbh, reduncing the range would just make it lose its team utility
Maybe the detected text would help too
Edit: bad english lmao
I hope they keep the range, too! It's nice to read map flow!
I'm actually not sure how Embark thought this was a fair ability lol. It's literally infinite wall hacks. Not even Bloodhound, Seer, Sombra has something like this. Not even Call of Duty has abilities that are as unfair as this.
The op drop dose work you just have to fight as u drop
done w/ this game til this gets removed or reworked. no clue why developers think wallhacks are fun. shit has taken a fun game and made it beyond boring & stale. every match is the same BS.
I guess its OP if your playing with MLG Doritos stained gamers because most recons on my team never even bother pinging.Id rather have a healing beam 9/10 times.
I can smell the mountain dew through their username.
I think it's not so OP. Making it shorter or longer range only or cooldown/length would fix it. Main problem here is that light classes feel toxic to play as, with and against. Lights really need rework in my opinion so countering them with heavy or recon won't be needed at all. There is lot to talk about them, but once again I think MHH/MMH meta is not because lights are bad, it's because they are annoying for both teammates and enemies.
I agree that lights need a rework. The only thing we can do is see what Embark does!
I personally disagree this is just my opinion respectfully
The only thing that makes Lights toxic for Most people is cloak when counters to cloak exist within every class
There are other annoying things like glitch nades and tazers but other than that a lot of lights weapon variety isnt as effective as other classes
Thermal vis for light v light
Sonar nade and Recon for Sense
High HP and Rpg for Heavy as well 2 other 1 shot/near 1 shot weapons
@@ospuze I don't think the entire class of light needs a rework. imo the design of a glass cannon fly that can counter a lot of abilities is good. But you know some stuff probably should get changed
Lights are not the issue right now. You can hear cloak activate and deactivate, and when it's on it hums like a chainsaw. A single tick of damage cancels it, plus recon/sonar/thermal completely nullify it.
Even if you don't like playing against them lights are not nearly as harsh to play against as c4 nukes or recon.
I didn't say that light class is strong, it is annoying to everyone in match. Enemies of light should always be aware of snipers, melee ambushes, no sound weapons and always to be on guard of invis. While lights teammates are always unable to respawn them cause any light archetype dies in a very unaccesable poaition. Your teammate is sniper? So, please go climb a crane to revive. Your teammate is melee light? His body is near to a fresh cashout station so wipe enemy team 2v3 or wait for them to cashout to revive! e.t.c.
Invisibility is not a problem for me at all. I have seen this type of invisibility so many times in games. I can spot invis player easier then a non-invis one because invis souns is much more position readable as well as it is not total invis. Invis should be buffed or better reworked the first! Like you can't sprint but can revive and use throwables without breaking cloak. Hookshot is really fun, so don't really know about it. Dashes is really a thing. If you use them perfectly it is 100% won 1v1, but higher the rank, the harder it is to find a 1v1. I think making it a chain-use ability removing charges with low cd would make it not so reliable in 1v1, but more useful in moving through map and re-engaging teamfights. Shotgun is fine for everyone, M11 I think is pretty class respective as a hit-run-hit weapon, maybe a little bit weak cause of alternative. Sniper rifle seems like problematic one but glitch nade fixes all it's player perspective problems. Sword's plunge is really bad and unusable without current dashes. Dagger is really the "one" weapon, it's mechanic with dashes shouls not exist (pre-fire answer NOT BECAUSE IT'S STRONG BECAUSE IT LOOKS CLUNKY TO BE KILLED BY OR TO KILL SOMEONE WITH BACKSTAB WHILE LOOKING SOMEWHERE ELSE IN FPS GAME).
Nobody just wants to play with/against lights they are too random for now.
Chypher from valorant be like: I know exactly where you are
there should not be a wallhack in any game, so take it out!
Nerf abilities in general. Recon Cloaking Mesh Shield they all too powerful. Sonar grenade is fine, bubble shield is fine, even vanishing bomb is fine. Its just the abilities that all 3 are too strong
I think it is OP they should lower the range so you cna see through walls since you can see people across the map
Light buff
It is OP, but I also think it's the only thing holding back cloak dominated games.
You must not play ranked
@@chaseglenn7208 cloak is shutdown in ranked because every team has recon senses.
Soo the cloak is not op?? The c4 and heavy barrel is not op? everything has a counter
They are! But in higher mmr lobbies, recon counters almost everything, and what counters recon? Both cloak and barrels have pretty good counters.
Recon's only counter rn is having a better player using recon
recon need to be a tablet you pull out and give you clear intell on where people are within a 100meter radius of the player not unlimited. i love medium but i know this is too strong also not a light hater but a rat hater pls pls pls make the cloak have a 5 second reactivation cooldown so people cant just pop out of stealth double barrel shotgun and insta cloak out of sight half the time there is so much noise going on you cant hear the cloak noise until it's too late
It doesn’t need a nerf you just need to learn play through it and learn how to out play them every class has their own meta set up and in the right hands a very skilled player can make any setup OP on any class just look at weapons that aren’t used very often and these pro/ very skilled players make the game look easy.
Remove recon sense and cloak because those abilities allow for you to shoot first as long as you are using it and I don’t think those belong in this game and will always feel extremely unfair to play against also those 2 abilities have unlimited uptime if you use them correctly
This guy talking about recon senses and pings for helping your team meanwhile a gadget called TRACKING dart exists.
They just need to make Recon work exactly like Thermal vision mechanically and reduce the range... problem solved IMO....
Recon got buried with the new update making it now that people see the detection tag when they get pinged by recon senses and the range is now only people that are 30m in range of you. It didn’t need this much of a nerf honestly like a nerf would’ve been fine making it so you couldn’t see people across map but let’s be honest the move didn’t directly kill you it just made it to where you could you be sneaky enough to get in close and kill your opponent. Imma just say this tho if they could nerf that then they can invisibility for lights and nerf that stun gun again as well as nerf the flame thrower and nerf the damage or accuracy on the guardian turret Sorry not sorry
I'm going to have to passionately disagree with the statement that "Embark has done a very good job with the balancing." I love The Finals but the game is more unbalanced than Overwatch. If I play 10 games of ranked I'm likely to see like 60 mediums, 25 heavys, and 5 lights. Also each class has a majority of horrible weapons and gadgets, and a few good ones.
We both love The Finals, though, and that's all that matters, lol.
Hi there, yeah like you said "This ability makes Finals more like deathmatch" - and this is totally piece of meat like bad!!! I wanted team to work like a team, not like some dude walking and running a solo run for a KILLS - this game not about this. I want Embark to cut, to nerf, to demolish this recon spec from the game idk how - but it's really frustrating for me as a teamplayer.
Thanks for video!
True
When everyone is using it its a joke. I want it removed from the game entirely. Recon senses in this game is the devs giving us an unbannable wall hack. Get rid of it. Or monumental nerf on range and time it can be used. I've even started pooling recon users together with cheaters.
After dealing with ranked recon senses users for the past few days, today is the 1st day I can't even be bothered playing it. Recon senses has caused me to have to take a break. EMBARK could have a problem on their hands that makes them lose a big chunk of players.
All of your opinions are correct. I've played every single day since release and love the game. Other people using recon senses is the one reason I won't be playing today. Try again tomorrow for a few games and if the same uninstall until change is made.
Im on the brink of platinum but keep falling back to 8000 points out of the 9000 because of continuous 1st round knocouts due to every single game having 1 or 2 teams of mediums all running recon. Im surprised the devs didnt run a full squad of recon in testing because surely they would have realised its not good to go up against. I have to suffer randoms as a solo aswell so that combined is a game killer for me.
If this ability is not removed from the game I will delete the game. No competitive game should have such talent. It kills all the fun of the game. How can you fight someone who sees where you are from behind a wall? And how can this game be enjoyable? bullshit.
All those ending clips were situations where someone ran towards your footsteps or fighting your teammates. There was one clip where you shot some guy through fire but that was in the midst of a team fight so he could have heard that recon sense. You’re extremely close to all these people and they just aren’t reacting. We just need better matchmaking so better players aren’t pooping on super casuals
There were actually gunners in a lot of those clips, but I'm showing the parts where I do good. Not when they poop on me, lol.
@@ospuze fair enough lol 😂 well that makes it a bias but I feel it’s you’re bringing like to the conversation. & hey they did nerf it but realistically more changes need to come.
I like to have fun not only when I make a clutch using recon senses, but also when I manage to outwit a team of three mediums with this ability and win the tournament. All the best :)
EVERYONE is missing the objective. Play. As. A. Team ! There’s stuff to counter everything in the game. Btw C4 barrel elim is a Steam achievement, best of luck getting that patched
Yup. C4 is letting you know messed up.
Bro is countering Wal hack
I only use recon senses now to spot those little mosquitoes with the cloak. I love games with no radar so I feel dirty using this but 90% lights crutch with the cloak ability so I gotta adjust accordingly. I say get rid of the cloak and recon abilities altogether.
Wah wah. Nerf light take invis out the game then we’ll talk about changing medium
No way you showed a whole video of you using wallhacks EXPOSED !!!!
i just hate. everytime i start use something. then it's need nerf etc. i feel all go down to drain after everything is nerf don't you guy's see everything is always op if someone know how to use it
Did you have weed in that mason jar? 🤣 Only reason I would have a mason jar near my setup
Lol, that was my water cup!
Is invisibility fair? c'mon man.. hahaha.
bad take in the first 5 minutes man has done nothing with it like hes saying and why is all these team fights 1v1 team fights how lucky are you to get these lobbies?
escaping is so aids vs people who use that
Nothing counters recon
Its already been nerfed, issues with the game now are most of heavies guns are bad (m60, lewis, flamethrower) and lights cloaking shotgun combo with tazer is too braindead. I'm sure there is more but imo the game got worse after full launch
I think nerfing invisibility would take priority over recon, personally
Then you missed the point of it.
@@EmpReb turns out, maybe I didn't, considering they nerfed cloak's recharge time and buffed recon (this was going to be my suggestion in the response I opted not to send to you because I think you missed the point...)
You're being very political. Once everyone catches on to how good it is, it will almost definitely ruin the game.
When I'm making content, I'm thinking a lot about newer players, too. There are some people that love recon sense and think it's a good thing for the game. While I agree with you and think it's ruining the game, the only thing I can do is express my opinion and let others formulate their own.
@@ospuzeit’s not ironically. Heal or turret was meta now everyone thinks recon meta meanwhile lights glitch grenade just sits their laughing at everyone only thinking medium and heavy.
Except you see no lights in competent play
@@ammi5311 And then those teams whine about no ability to break shields when glitch grenade or if you smart med glitch trap exist.
Recon senses makes the finals shallow and boring.
I agree!
It has to be removed from the game, not balanced. Wallhacks are the bane of FPS games for 2 decades. That or they should make it press the button once and it drains down then long cooldown.
i disagree, EAC is a joke and without community servers with real moderators we will have to play with cheaters and without recon you don't have a chance no matter how good you are.
also alot of the clips shown in this video was you fighting lights and none of them was using dash. for a light invis you are their direct counter, but if they were running dash they could wide peak and taze. really it's not recon that's op it that the scout/healer class is also the main dps class, and unless they running LH1 and only get headshots on you your ttk will always be better. i main light and if i find myself 1v1ing a recon fcar i'll bait them in circles until their ability runs out and if i don't feel confident i can beat them i just wont fight them. unless it's vegas they wont catch me
Build in wall hack is wack , invis complainer need to have their skill check or spec or eye ball&ear .
Don't need to do too much math , brainless burn recon sense is 8s duration 16s cd .
Wait till you see the game become triple premade squad medium rotate their recon duty scaring all-time with defib and under radar ap turret .
nerf the cloak before recon...its the only counter and lights wanna cry about it but im suppose to just eat a stun gun all game by an invis no problem
medium is the strongest class in the game
Cloak is countered by light's thermal vision, medium's sonar grenade and tracking dart, fire DoT, gas, turrets once they start shooting you. It can be heard clearly when the user is cloacking and it's easy to see if you pay attention. Even if the light successfully uses his cloak and stuns you from behind you can win the 1v1 because he's so squishy. Cloak is not that strong once you know how it works.
This is a stun gun issue , and your skill issue