I agree with everything you have said except David mom having health insurance just because she's a EMT. There are many examples in the real world where large corporations screw over or down right tells employees to either go above and beyond or do something dangerous just to save money. Most businesses wouldn't offer health-care if they weren't required by law to do so. What's to say several mega corporations in that future world send lobbyists to pay congress to get rid of that law so they don't have to spend money providing heath benefits.
I feel like David's mom not having health insurance even though she worked as an EMT was completely intentional. I think it was supposed to be an eye opener to just how awful life had become, that not even an EMT would have work provided healthcare.
I basically agree with this conversation, I would like to point out I think she could have had the best trauma team package but choose not to to basically put everything in to David's education
Let's also add she probably wasn't ignorant to the value it held but rather couldn't begin to afford it she couldn't keep the lights or washer on in her own home so it wouldn't make sense she could afford insurance from the sounds of it she could barely afford her sons tuition bit thought it would be a better investment fir everyone if he got the money rather than her which it would have been if David didn't cut corners she didn't have the worst luck of her life
I think that with Lucy, the shift in her personality is her dropping the persona she created as her mask to deal with the world. That headstrong chaos loving grin was just an act. I think as her relationship with David progresses she reverts to who she really is versus who she wants others to view her as. Afterall, she chases the moon... what does the moon's tarot represent?
Funny, that you bring up Tarot cards, I would think that she turned reverse moon after the whole thing. Her eyes looked as if she went into depression and had dealt with the many nightmares of losing David and the crew. She later finds a new purpose in life and becomes the Sun Tarot?
The manic pixie dream girl Lucy is introduced as is 100% a ruse being used to lure David in and figure out whether or not he has Maine's cyberware. She even has two major mask slips during the episode to reinforce that- her reaction to David's comments on the poster, and the moon BD. While the first mask slip is fine, the second one makes a lot less sense when you start to factor in the background we learn about Lucy later on. Lucy escaped Arasaka (somehow) and then survived on her until getting taken in by Kiwi. It follows that shes is a distant, cold, and untrusting person who tries hard to come off as detached. Despite all this, Lucy bafflingly decides to show an incredibly intimate facet of herself to someone she's been actively manipulating and who she knows will likely be dead in a few hours, even though she has absolutely no reason to. The David/Lucy relationship is honestly kind of nonsensical to me because the show really doesn't take the time to reconcile and build things up with the two after Lucy's initial betrayal. David basically just simps for Lucy from start to finish, and the show tries to hamfistedly play it off as a "love at first sight" sort of deal. Sure, with the right build up, it could work in the first half, but once Maine dies and Lucy effectively shuts David out, their relationship should be finished. I think a big part of the reason why many people tend to favour a David and Rebecca pairing over a Lucy one is that Rebecca is, by far, the more consistent of the two, and she provides David exactly with what he's looking for to boot. Sort of have to remember that one of the first two people to show David genuine respect and intact with him amiably was Maine - which was why David latched onto him so quickly. The other character to do this was Rebecca, but she's sidelined because the script is hyperfocused on an endpoint that it forgets to consider the logical consequence of other elements. Rebecca is sort of her own bundle of issue, though. She's clearly a later addition to the script that was crammed in to fill a role not suited to her characterization.
Also, I highly recommend you play the video game as part of your research as I've seen you fall into pitfalls the game lore goes through and lets you appreciate the show more: 1. Gloria's Death: the cyberpunk setting is an Anarcho-Capitalistic Dystopia, which means that employees are not guaranteed things we take for granted in today's world thanks to labor Law. Corporations will consume you and spit you out, specially on the lower hierarchy (operative) levels. So in Gloria's case, just because you work for EMT does not mean you get insurance as a job benefit. Also, it is clear that Gloria's wage is not enough and she is making a sacrifice to send David to a top tier school, which is why she's doing shady deals on the side... She does not have the money to buy insurance, or would rather use the money for David's sake and take the risk. 2. Lucy choices: 2 words... emotional involvement 4. David choices: David is a intellectually capable BUT that doesn't mean he is emotionally smart or mature enough to make the best choices.... The whole first episode is the point that no matter how smart, capable, educated and/or gifted he is. He will never fit as he is not of the same "pedigree" as his classmates. Also he chromes up heavily because the expectations that he is "built different" (which went straight to his head) came early in the show by being told using sandy 8 times is not normal and people can only do like 2 or 3 times a day. Also one of Maines early recommendations is that he chromes up as to help him with his new edgerunner life. It is to remind us that despite his capabilities, David is still a teen and makes mistakes as one. Finally, a big part of David's character arc is that he has no motivations of his own. He started the show doing his mother wish. (despite, hating it) after she died he took Lucy's dream as his north star, but David really has no true goal in this show. 5. Things that dont make sense: The car gaining altitude: This would not be a studio trigger show without this kind of thing (same with the bumpercar cars at the end of the show) Maine cyberware: shoddy (and/or second hand) cyberwear is common, Maine is heavily chromed so it can be overstraining his nerves which can cause it to jam/ glitch. tracking sandevistan: It is not an Arasaka product. Tracking Lucy: Shes a heavily skilled Netrunner, she can cover her tracks.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 you could make the argument that edge runners in NC might want to either escape or become so well off that they don't have trouble living their lives (glass ceilings suck). So even though faraday is incredibly shady, he does pay top dollar and could arguably hold enough sway to enrichen someone's life. So much so that you could take a gamble on him.
@@floofiestmuffin6945 I also feel like kiwi is an object lesson in the nature of trust and hypocrisy. She says don't trust, and betrays the people closest to her, and when she puts trust in Faraday, she gets burned. She basically betrays herself by not trusting her own advice, and pays with her life.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 A the time i wasnt really that clear about Kiwi and i wasnt really gonna sit down and rewatch big chunks of the show just for a comment. I might as well make a video at that point.
@@algis-kun8777 Ooo, a video? I'm excited to see it😃 BTW, if you really are gonna make it maybe try addressing these points. Sorry for the long read.😓 (1) This show is built upon alot of people immediately understanding what's going on and why it's happening only in a short amount of time. That's why its short form of storytelling is praised by critics and audiences. So when you have a character whose actions actually impact the plot in a major way there needs to be an understandable reason why. (2) Kiwi's betrayal contextualized as "seeing that the Edgerunners were doomed because David was going the way of Maine" IS a good explanation, but the problem is, if that really was the case in the show, then why are people so split on seeing it that way? They're usually not that divided when it comes to understanding the characters, so why? I myself re-watched this show and there was NO indication that Kiwi was upset, fearful, or doubting of David's performance as a leader. (3) MAYBE if Kiwi had a talked to Lucy about how she should convince David to chrome down, spied on them to make sure she did, but then showed disappointment when Lucy failed and thus turned to Faraday, it could've worked but it still doesn't explain why Kiwi would betray the friends she's known for a long time now. (4) I've heard somewhere that the betrayal was supposed to illustrate a poetic irony of Kiwi trusting and Lucy not trusting both lead to tragedy, but A) we've never seen enough of their poetry together to make that big of a connection, and B) Kiwi is one of those "closed off" type characters that really needed more time dedicated to fleshing her out. Lots of people agree that we indeed should've gotten 12 episodes not 10, and issues like Kiwi's betrayal is one of the reasons. Thanks for replying!😃👍 And again, sorry for the long read.😓 I hope these points were helpful if you indeed decide to make a video on it. I.d.k. man, I just want more Edgerunners Content or at least an OVA named "Kiwi: A Cyberpunk's Story".😖
I can’t understand how he considers this a plothole,even if I don’t agree with the other ones I can still understand them,but this one I can’t. It’s not like our heart goes scanning for the best option,it just chooses whoever clicks and sometimes there isn’t even logic behind it. And they even had such amazing chemistry! They bounced off of each other so well that it was always a treat to see them interact and that’s why they worked so well as a couple.
Please don’t play the “it’s just a joke bro!” Card ffs…if that is a joke then the entire video also is because he was as serious on this point as he was with every other one.
@@EliteEpicGamerz You must not know what a joke looks like then, if you think that was a joke. Stop trying to talk for people you don't know, dude. If it was a joke, he would've stated it was a joke by now.
Trauma Team is an optional service for the ultra-wealthy. They specifically say they're leaving them for the standard EMTs. Lucy was playing a role to draw David in to steal his Sandevistan. Kiwi nearly got killed by the last team leader who was falling into Cyberpsychosis. David was going down the same path.
The real plothole is why the TT showed up to begin with, or at all. Later on, they show TT shows up when there is a specific signal from flatlining insurance members. Without such a signal, why are they there. Why do they check on her at all? There is little evidence of other people in the immediate area, and TT being there is purely a plot contrivance. I can see TT being dystopian enough that leave it to other EMT, and tbf, other EMT got there in time to save mom’s life. However the level of responsibility would be basically only to report the problem, not to treat them. Morally and practically though, if there’s no immediate danger to the victums life, they shouldn’t have to intervene. If there is, at least morally ( although not legally ) then immediate emergency first aid until they can be transported to better healthcare. However this is an uncaring dystopia and its surprising to me they mentioned other emts at all. They aren’t total dicks if they think other responders can handle it.
@@luzhang2982 its highway accident many cars in there some premium member might got caught in the fire but yeah TT doesnt need to check on her because it should be automated signal from premium member
1. She can't afford premium insurance and put a kid through school 2. Being "wild and independent" is what you are when you have nothing you care about and nothing to lose. Once she starts seeing her life being at risk (David being taken and her life being exposed) she starts acting like most people do. 3. Kiwi betrayed the crew because Farraday was her lover. It's not super obvious, but he hints at it several times. Yeah, she makes the same mistake as she said not to...that's the point. She even basically says as much. 4. David had no choice but to chrome up. Being an Edgerunner is a path to death. He thinks he's special. That's also said a million times in the anime. 5. Some of those are valid points. I don't understand the car jump thing, ha ha. As for Lucy being tracked down by Arasaka...that's what she's doing when she kills those dudes. She's keeping herself and David safe from Arasaka. She has been on the run her whole life, yes, but she's also an expert at wiping out trails left online.
Faraday and Kiwi? Lovers? No. Kiwi wanted out of Night City, and this was her chance to do that, so she took it. The promise of a life outside of Night City clouded her judgement, and lead to her betraying everyone to work with Faraday and get out of the city.
@@kawansaymon2082 Yes he was special. He was highly resistant to cyberware, but everyone has limit no matter how high it is. I say his act is selfish and arrogant though because his hand/body begins to tremble just like Maine so it's clear he hit his limit. However he choose to ignore it and STILL try to get more upgrades.
No insurance even for someone who work in EMT actually make sense in this dystopian world. Also, EMT are separate department from TTI (Trauma Team International). TTI is a completely private company. Both David & Lucy behaviors turned 180 clearly because of how traumatized they were after Maine & Dorio's deaths. This is even more traumatic for Lucy, after finding out that David is in Arasaka crossfire, just like her, someone who has been trying to escape Arasaka's grasps for years. "Laying low" is her best course of action, while also hunting down Arasaka Netrunners.
well in game its pretty obvious that working for corporation is hell on Earth,Militech was voted as best corp to work for in NC because they offer 5 days of paid vacation,unlimited stimulants and 30% of their employees getting pension package.
I think Kiwi's betrayal was sparked by Maine snapping and slapping ghe shit out of her, nearly killing her. The payout was huge, high risk, but so was staying in business. Sure, Maine's been dead when she does betray, but she's around other cyberjocks who are destined to the same fate. It was her out. Though going straight there and not expecting Faraday to just dispose of her was dumb. I was thinking of it as it was unfolding from the moment faraday was arranging a meetup. She deserved it though.
Other than that. She had no team loyalty. She probably felt like she was on the edge of having to leave the team whenever Lucy comes back. That's pretty much the feel. David always ask for Lucy for the job but cause Lucy doesn't want to, Kiwi does it. So she's slapped the hell out by Maine, then unappreciated by David.
Kiwi betrayal was not sparked by Maine. Kiwi since the start if you understand her enough are quite similiar with Lucy (since Kiwi is Lucy mentor). Kiwi since the start never had the same dream as Maine which are to be a Night City legends, kiwi goals were to make enough Eddies to escape night city similar to lucy, and she saw those opportunity of escape with Faraday offer to betray the gang. That's why Kiwi was adamant to leave night city after Faraday pays her and assured Arasaka to honor the deal with amnesty. But alas faraday betray her by killing her since the deals were never there in the first place since Arasaka order is to kill anyone so there's no witnesses of the project.
I think she knew deep down that Faraday was going to try and pull something, but if she didn't go to him and just left the city, she would have betrayed her allies for absolutely nothing and she would have lost the eddies she needed to have a chance at finding a life outside of Night City. She was checkmated.
@@laken6461 she played the game wrong though just like how Evelyn Parker played the game wrong. Kiwi could’ve just steal enough eddies and bail the fuck out but instead fell to the biggest lie Night City promises.
People keep saying this about Lucy but seem to be missing alot of context to her choices. She didnt share the information to the crew because in reality there isnt much they could do to help her that wouldnt get them killed (half of them died without even directly pursuing Arasake so they wouldve if they did for sure). On top of this, as you stated, she was taught not to trust a soul in night city and kept true to that even if this group of "friends" was supposed to be trustworthy which Kiwi wasnt. Her change in personality can be explained in multiple ways, mainly that after seeing what was in store for David, she distanced herself in order to prevent his downfall in the hands of the exoskeleton suit. Had she involved him, he was for sure going to end up in that suit so her plans to do it alone kept him as far from it as possible since hes a chrome junkie. The other "plot holes" are fair, mainly issues with writing honestly like her not killing Faraday because she kinda cant at this point so that David can get his revenge.
I dont think most plot holes that he mentions are actually plot holes, are more like things that he didnt like or disagree, I can find arguments against almost everything he said
I mean she wasn’t telling the crew everything to begin with she David was literally asking the crew hey what’s with Lucy and they are just like 🤷♀️ you should ask her. I legit think besides two points it feels like he just didn’t understand the show
This. I always got the strong impression Lucy's worst fear was that David would actually WANT the Cyberskeleton if he found out about it. Sure, he'd never agree to be an Arasaka lab rat, but he could sure as hell steal the thing. And what reason would he have to doubt that he could handle it? He IS "special" after all.
@@mr.p215 i think that it might have something to do with a trauma team subscription. like with the dad of the bully. if faraday died maybe it would autocall security or some insurance kill squad.
While many have addressed the issue of Gloria's lack of medical coverage from several angles, I haven't seen a comment point out something very important to the setting. Night City is NOT in the US even though it is on the California coast. California isn't even in the US in the Cyberpunk setting. It's a free state, and Night City is a free city within that free state. No one living there has any kind of legal protection. No constitution. No Bill of Rights. No anti-discrimination or pro-worker anything. Unions aren't just illegal, attempting to form one gets you executed with or without a trial. If you can't pay for it, you don't have it.
Kiwi's betrayal is the most obvious thing, Maine literally punched her face clean off. She herself specifically notes that no one says please or thank you.
@@Uniacoty Agreed, and it was Maine which she now know that he went Cyber Psycotic, which was why he chose to randomly hit her, which when she betrayed all her allies they were all sane expect maybe David which Kiwi contributed to him going to extreme measures and going insane to save Lucy. David also early on when we're shown he's the new boss, at their hangout area, he talked to Kiwi and said how much he appreciates her, and after all that she randomly just chooses to side with Faraday, without any context to why, it in general feels pointless and feels like it didn't make any form of sense.
@@Ramen.1 ye but I feel like her point goes both ways, she doesn't trust David and his crew and Faraday probably offered her enough money to never work again (considering he didn't intend to lay her, he probably offered some ludicrous amount), which clouded her judgement
@@Originul_ I think people forget that Kiwi didn't know she was trapping Lucy. She got a job offer from Faraday to find some anonymous netrunner that's been damaging arasaka, and she did the job for big pay.
Lucy went from being super happy to cold and distance later on because she felt guilty for lying to David. Also, more and more of her friends kept dying. There wasn't much for her to be happy about.
Responses: 1.) This is Night City 2.) Character development 3.) This is Night fucking City 4.) People going cyberpsycho out of an addiction for implanting cybernetics aren’t exactly the best father figures. 5.) Plot, janky physics, signs that Maine is slowly going cyberpsycho, etc.
No it was just faulty cyberware. The ripperdoc told David that it was a miracle it worked at all and suggested he get a better version but David wanted to use the same arms Maine had.
@@Silamon2 He says that it's an "oversized fossil" and that "jamming that [...] in was a miracle" -- not that it working at all was the miracle. Maine had bigger arms. Must have been tough getting that big thing in David's smaller arm. I'm sure the good doctor had more compact models, like the one we saw Adam Smasher use later and that's what he suggested. David turned him down due to sentimental reasons, and it never once malfunctioned for him that we saw.
@@josephinewang5201 The entire arm was replaced.... Maine had problems with the launcher before he ever showed symptoms of psychosis. It was faulty hardware. I apologize for misremembering the exact quote. Edit: "It's an oversized faucet. Arm socket connector's warped. Jamming that f---er in was a miracle. My advice, trash it. Got all kinds of next gen chrome out back and I know you got the scratch for it" "NO thanks, this one's fine." "Tsk. Fine. It's your funeral" Sure sounds like faulty hardware to me? Second Edit: and yes we never see it fail when David used it. All one times that he used it on screen, it worked. It worked a lot of the times Maine used it. That doesn't mean it wasn't faulty. We also never see any other examples of cyberware failing because of psychosis. Not one other example of it.
Simple answer is, its just faulty hardware for the PLOT. Rebecca (Pre-Timeskip) already showed great aim at guns. Then suddenly she misses all shot against the Homeless Psycho who was literally standing.
@@ayakakamisato3769 One can attribute that incident to emotional trauma interfering with her normal functions - in the real world people can experience impaired motor function when experiencing extreme rage and sorrow.
I ended up thinking that Gloria wasn't actually an EMT but like a crime scene mortuary assistant or a morgue worker. All the people working with her have the iconic neon yellow coat, but the other ambulance worker that tries to sell out David (a living patient) later on has a much darker orange jacket in the same style. This would also sorta explain a more ready access to implants to sell from corpses than actual living patients. In a similar vein I thought the sandy that David has was militech not arisaka? Cyberpsyco Chuck Norris was in the NUSA military so I thought Arisaka's data on the sandy was stolen and their interest in it was more from the viewpoint of the exoskeleton, so I doubt they can track it.
I forgot the other stuff I was gonna post so... To continue: Lucy's actions (other than with faraday) seem pretty consistent with a trauma response. She's confident when she's feeling free and unfettered, and not dealing with arasaka bullshit. When they start dealing with that and after she rats on David the first time are when she starts to withdraw. And she used net wizardry to hide herself from arasaka I guess? As for Kiwi, while I feel like her betrayal didn't make much sense I felt it was more out of a fear of corpo backlash vs. a want for money.
EMT with no health insurance is pretty expected in the world of cyberpunk, you'd have to get f*cked in the a** before you could get good service. Lucy felt guilty about David ever since she lied to him, she thinks it's her fault that he went down that rabbit hole but at the same time she doesn't really have a choice to stop him from doing so. She feels guilty for staying away from the crew for so long that she thinks if she ever came back they'd be mad, even if David keeps reassuring her they won't. Lucy can't kill Faraday herself as it would get them into more trouble than what happened to David, remember he was still known to be sided with Militec at the time, if Lucy killed Faraday they'd have Arasaka, Adam, and Militec chasing them. Kiwi's choices are probably the only plot holes, but if she's willing to betray her friends just to get out of NC, she was probably desperate to trust the scummiest of scum, also in writing an antagonist that's supposed to be evil, they intentionally make them look like scum, in the perspective of David and the others Faraday was probably just being cocky, but in the anime we see him actually being evil. David's choices aren't him falling into a trap, it's him willingly walking into it knowing full well what would happen, he was pressured by the fact he wanted to save all the people around him, and there was no other choice to save them other than becoming a full cyborg. David didn't follow Rebecca since David's dream was to help Lucy achieve her dream, which in his eyes was actually possible. Rebecca loved David because of David, but David loved Lucy because she had a dream. All the things you pointed out about "Things that don't make sense" are mostly gags to the original game, and Maine's upgrades are completely fine, what's jamming it is his cyberpsychosis, the sadevistan and Lucy maybe Arasaka property, but they were equivalent to Soulkiller (Thing the protagonist stole in the game), which Hanako Arasaka (Daughter of the founder, Saburo Arasaka) didn't have value in.
This has to be a troll. David's mom not having insurance makes sense for Night City, it's every man for himself, why would an employer provide healthcare insurance when they could ask their employee to BUY it instead. Lucy never had her own dreams until she met David she was misanthropic and hated Arasaka, then a life with David became her dream clouding everything else. Also, Kiwi explains it herself why she betrays the crew, Lucy betrayed the crew and caused multiple deaths first and that team was a liability at that point, she just wanted a little extra on the way out.
Gloria's death can be explained in that even as a EMT was something along the lines of A. she simply wasn't offered the benefits, B. she was forced to opt out of the benefits for financial reasons (they could barely afford to pay for their laundry to be done, most American based companies take the money straight out of your check to pay for benefits), or C. her company only offered her the discount plan which is why Gloria was able to even be treated and cremated. Also it was made pretty obvious that Maine and crew had no idea about the state of Gloria being in the hospital or deceased until David mentioned it. While Maine clearly respected her, Gloria kept him at a distance. If she didn't keep Maine at a distance David and Maine would have at least known each other in passing since it was implied Gloria had several dealings with him and his crew.
So the EMT not having good health insurance was a deliberate choice on her part. She had the option to upgrade it by paying extra but she refused so she could have more money to pay for David's education. When David found out about this it added onto his self-loathing because he internally believed he killed his mom. That's also part of the reason he dropped out. That school was the reason she died and it just reminded him of how she killed herself for him.
1. Gloria outright states she doesn't have friends in the medical industry and that every Eddie goes to David's academia. Given he's going to school with billionaires' sons, her skipping insurance to make enough makes perfect sense in context. 2. Lucy only acted confident for one episode, which she states being for the sake of luring him in to get his Sandevistan back to Maine. Lucy's hot and cold behavioral patterns are similar to pretty much every modern e-girl, who pulls in orbiters. They do it because it works. It doesn't matter if Rebecca is more loyal, more "present" and his "ride or die"- Lucy through her behavior gave the appearance of a higher status female, and through intermittent, not constant attention, made her presence seem more valuable overall as it was scarcer. Also, anime frequently goes with the rule of "the first girl introduced is the actual love interest." 3. Foreshadowing. Extremely on-the-nose foreshadowing. 4. The story behind David's cyber psychosis is the story of pretty much every addiction. You're special until you're not. "I'm three drinks in and I'm fine" before you break your neck on stairs. Not to mention he's still a kid with visible impulse control issues.
My wife is a nurse. She has terrible insurance and obscene prices. It could be more of that. Her plan didn’t even allow her visitors. It could also be that she made sure every last cent went to David’s tuition. Hours after her death, we start seeing she was months past due on rent, bills, etc. All your other points I agree with.
I think gloria didn't have insurance because the money that would have paid for it instead went to send David to Arasaka Academy. most likely that school must cost a hefty sum.
I just think Lucy never opened about to David about Saka's plans for him because she was afraid he'd end up pitting the team against the corp, leading to their deaths.
As to why Kiwi betrayed the crew I believe that there just might be some story between her and Faraday, that Faraday's got something on her that forces her to cooperate with him. It's my first thought, even though it is not even suggested in the show.
I doubt that. It's never even implied. Faraday "seeing her again" could just mean they've been planning the betrayal for a while. But then again, who the heck knows since as mentioned, her betrayal makes no sense.
She was almost killed by the last Leader of the crew and they treated her like garbage always talking shit about wanting Lucy instead of her to be the Netrunner. I don't blame her betraying the assholes in this crew tbh.
Okay so I think most can be explained 1) David’s mom not having insurance can easily be explained that instead of paying for it, all of their money went to David’s schooling. I mean a single update to a school necessary program was a shit ton of money. She had to resort to selling black market chrome and upgrades 2) Lucy’s choices could be that she never really grew up or learned common sense. She was trained to be a deep runner since birth, escaped and grew up on the streets and was found and raised by an edge runner. She did what she did with David cause she needed to keep him interested long enough for Maine to show up and do his thing and get his chrome back from the guy they thought stole it. Plus she was trying to contact David to stop him, she was probably thinking with adrenaline 3) kiwi betraying the crew for feraday was probably because of what Maine did and almost getting her killed and because she was probably promised something enough to have no choice 4) and David falling into the trap enough though he was smart. He was depressed and sad after losing 3 parental figures in his life. He found comfort in chrome like a woman with ice cream and a pot head with weed
David's mom DID have insurance. The doctor addressed that in his first conversation with David, when he said "visitation isn't part of her package". The problem, like with basically every EMT in the real world, is that a catastrophic injury like the one she had isn't going to be sufficiently covered by the sh*t tier insurance that a private company EMT gets. Knowing you should have better medical coverage doesn't magically give you the ability to pay for it when you already don't have enough to pay all your bills and have to do illegal sh*t to send your kid to school. I am 1000% with you on driving with the sandevistan, though. That was nonsense.
I think David didn't made logical choices when people told him to stop was because he thought he was special. He used the Sandy 9 times at the beginning and got a nosebleed when Doc told him he would go mad if he uses it too much. When they were stealing the cyberskeleton, David still thinks he's special. Then Adam Smasher comes in; Adam was a reality check for David, one that came too late.
Really liked your other cyberpunk videos but this one was definitely off. 1. Gloria working as an EMT but not having good insurance is right at home in the cyberpunk world, night city is the most corrupt city in the U.S and it is ran by elites, the rich and corpos with corruption in every corner. Fits very well with the futuristic dystopian world they live in, the game further shows this, plus, seeing as EMT’s and Nurses in todays world have horrible insurance just further shows how real it is. Also, not that she didn’t see The value in insurance, rather it was just another sacrifice she did to put David thru school. It shows how she was backed up on rent, bills and suffered all sorts of money issues. She literally says that David is her life. Maine also states how she went ghost and they hadn’t heard of her, so they didn’t even know she was dead to be able to be there to protect or help her. 2. Lucy at the beginning was crazy and unhinged because she had no cares for anything, she didn’t really care about what would happen to her or her future, after meeting david she became vulnerable, she now had a weakness, a reason to keep going, someone to keep safe and so she changes to a more preserved person. People change all the time and people seem to forget that trait about humans. I also dont see where you say she didn’t care or be on top of David. She went around killing people going after her man to turn him into a science experiment and STILL, she was there at home For him to talk to him and support him When he got home. She would go check on him when he wasn’t in bed and she would take him to his ripperdoc. She literally begs him to lay off the chrome, she never even wanted him to be an edgerunner, stated by the creator of the show, Rafal Jaki himself, Lucy is his favorite and most genuine character, inspired by his own mom. He says Lucy was Davids only shot at a happy ending, his golden ticket. Had he listened to her and layed off the chrome, stopped edgerunning and lived with her on the moon, he would’ve lived. There are no happy endings in night city, you have to leave. David was the first and only person Lucy opened up too, let him in, loved him deeply. Sure, at the beginning she brought him Back, a stranger, to her crew to get something back that belonged to them, she didn’t know David and even then she liked him and clearly states they can’t kill him. She also says everything in the moon BD she meant and after they get to know each other her ultimate loyalty is always to him, choosing him over even her own crew. She also never knew about the cyber skeleton, half of Arasaka doesn’t even know about that, she only knew that Arasaka wanted more info on him and Had him in their sights. She couldn’t tell Maine because they would not have let her sabotage Tanaka and couldn’t tell David because he would make her stop out of fear for her safety and would’ve gone to Arasaka himself because it would further fuel his obsession that he is “special” which he definitely was. Their bond was also so crazy that Lucy brought him back from full on cyber psychosis by just talking to him, something you are absolutely not supposed to come back from. She lived and breathed for him and did everything for him. At the beginning her dream was to go to the moon but after meeting David , her dream was simply to be with him. 3. Kiwi’s betrayal was deeper than Eddies, her and Faraday had some sort of other connection and on top of that she was trying to secure her place, knowing that Davids crew didn’t have high odds of winning after discovering the enemies that were coming for them. She was looking for security, was she a snake, liar, POS and betrayer? Definitely but her decision wasn’t a plot hole, she was just a shitty person that made the wrong decision. 4. David being smart and making bad choices is actually as real as it gets lol. I don’t see how this doesn’t make sense, in real world, genius people are often lost due to bad choices, addiction, bad surroundings and grief that they aren’t able to cope with. He was addicted to two things, chroming up and living others dreams. Plenty of geniuses have been lost to addiction. He was so caught up living out his mom and Maines dreams(moms dream of him succeeding in life and Maines dream of being a top dawg edgerunner and leading his crew) that he lost out on his own dream, to be together with Lucy. Instead he leaves the love of his life heartbroken and forever alone missing the love of her life until she dies. The creator even says the ending song, let you down, is David apologizing to Lucy for letting her down and leaving her to suffer alone. Honestly the worst one was you saying he picked the wrong girl. How you can say Rebecca was better for him than the girl literally putting her life on the line and constantly putting him before herself baffles me. Especially since Rebecca is really just a hot head liability that constantly puts herself in danger and has no regard for her own life. Its shown in ep4 when Maine has to babysit her and force her down, she literally almost dies there and its why she ultimately dies at the end. She was NOT the best choice plus there wasn’t that connection. David loved her, yes, as a little sister, she couldn’t even snap him Out of it with a fresh injection of immuno blockers and being right in front of him, plus he wasn’t even full cyber psycho, Lucy did it with no meds and he was FULL cyber psycho. He just didn’t have the connection with Becca. Was she cool and a good character? Hell yea, was she better than Lucy? Hell no 5. This is the only one I will kinda give to you but it’s debatable because this is anime lmao. These are common anime Tropes and every anime or show has some far fetched ideas and scenes like the car scene. Maine’s chrome was just too much for him, he was too chromed out and it was affecting his nerves, he couldn’t stop because he always wanted more, he thought, like all addicts do, that he was too good for cyber psychosis. As for David using the sandy on the train, if no one sees him appear and disappear then he should be good. He always appears behind cover and everyone is buried into their phones or sleeping. The sandy was Military and not Arasaka tech so they couldn’t track it, yet they still had David in their sights. Lucy was one of the best Net runners since the guy the cut off the old web. She was a master at hiding her tracks and was constantly on top of that, she even says it. Thats all, love your videos tho 🫡
I think Lucy changed because she fell in love for the first time in her life and so she decided to take care of things her self instead of potencial putting in danger the person she loves by asking him to help her. And if she asked the crew instead of David, he would absolutely notice something was going on. And then David getting all the upgrades, I think was his way of gating stronger so he could make more money to take Lucy to the moon, and since she wouldn't help him on his missions he needed to get stronger by himself.
This comment section is a gold mine for answers 😂 You guys know Night City well. But I agree 100% with all of these points. Especially the first and last one! About David's mom. She's killed off screen. It would've been nice to show David have a moment with Gloria before she drew her last breaths. Gloria would tell David everything about the Edgerunners and how she was involved as a cyberware smuggler. And see how David's choices and goal change after.
Except that would have invalidated many of the themes and part of the plot. Night City is indifferent to the point of being malicious. It is cold and corporate. Gloria dying alone off screen is perfect in portraying that theme. Him knowing about Maine and the crew would have drastically changed the story to the point of it being a story not worth telling. He would have never put the sandy in if he knew where he could find a buyer willing to pay what it was worth and Maine would have known who had it or at least that somebody besides Gloria had it.
Lucy acts confident in the beginning when David is not her weakness. But when she accepted him in his life and became her weakness, how can she disclose to him the problem with Arasaka if she knows he'll approach it differently? (highlighted in ep6 when Lucy tells David to save themselves & leave Maine & Dorio)
I couldn’t agree more with Lucy drastic change in character. It’s like after Rebecca was introduced all of Lucy wild tendencies just left and poured into Rebecca. I wasn’t able to put it into words but you did, so thank you for that
@@bumperjumper and what you said about Rebecca was facts too, it seemed like they were pushing the possibility of her and David getting together but stuck him with Lucy because of her classic trope of being the alluring, aloof mystery girl.
As for Lucy not telling David while it makes logical sense people don't see logically. I think she could see how self destructive he was and worried that informing him that he was right, he is in fact special would just cause him to go over the edge that much faster. It also explains her slowly becoming less wild. She suddenly was very tired trying to bury the David thing until Arasaka determined the data Tanaka held was truly lost and moved on. They were just more invested in the project than she realized so they weren't relenting and she had to always be watching her back again.
@@crozraven Yes but they wanted it to be short. Look up how production started for the anime, the script that trigger got was written as a movie but they tweaked it to 10 ep. If only cd project red would have said this felt too short then maybe we would have gotten a longer show.
1) Gloria didn’t have health insurance depite her being an emt because cyber punk’s universe is an anarcho-capitalist one Also, it’s possible she didn’t buy any insurance because she was trying to save money (see david has about €$20k in his account after her death) or she belived she had some (her employer lying about supplying insurance) 2) Lucy’s personality change is her dropping the mask. She found someone she trusts fairy deeply (see any of their apartment scenes) 3) Kiwi’s betrayal might be a mix of two things a) David taking riskier jobs than Maine. That and lucy leaving the team making her the only net runner must’ve put her under tremendous pressure to not only do more, in a shorter period of time, but to also not fuck up, at all b) Faraday was the same person supplying the jobs before. It’s possible Kiwi had a grudge because of point a. These two combined (at least partially) explain the betrayal 4) Book smarts doesn’t translate exactly to good coping mechanisms You have to keep in mind not only did david lose a good chunk of the people close to him, but his job *is* putting him of the wrong end of guns constantly Combine those, and you have stress. Not only do people cope in different ways, but people in great deals of stress aren’t always level-headed I’d argue that, once he took the lead role of the crew, that’s when it started going downhill 4) The car gaining altitude is probably just a riff on cyberpunk 2077’s buggy everything at launch afterall, in jame’s braindance, cops do appear out of nowhere behind him and the nobody noticing david disappearing on the train might just be crowed public transit in a bad neighborhood personally, i’m more surprised people didn’t notice their chips being ejected like david did
Idk all the “plot holes” you mentioned make sense. You think too much. The moreso character flaws more than anything. With David it’s as if you never been a young impressionable man hopped up on grief, testosterone, the lack of a father , and some toxic loving from a mysterious girl with a sketchy past.
Honestly, agreed with every one of your points and thought the same thing. Also using the sandy to pick up any human and move them, like Rebecca, would snap their necks without proper support, but they skipped that detail entirely. Coulda totally made David support Rebeccas head or something for a little realism detail. Teleporting sandy train man, jumping car, also great points I also got irked by.
I think that generally. 1: David's mum was gambling it all to put David in a obviously elite school. I mean Arasaka is the night cities biggest corp. It's fairly obvious that that school would be way, way, way beyond what Gloria would have been able to afford. Even with the illegal trading and such. 2: on Lucy.....I generally feel that at first she was putting on an act to get David interested in her.... A mission. I'ld say that Lucy is almost as inexperienced as David in an actual romantic relationship....and in her case she doesn't want to get confrontational with the one she cares about.....choosing to keep her feelings tucked in. 3: On Kiwi.....to an extent....I think she was fustrated and wanted an out. She worked under Maine who died, to her Lucy went and left the crew to do her own thing and their current leader David.....is starting to go a lil chrome crazy. Perhaps she felt that she needed to get our before something happens. 4: David.....honestly I knew a guy kinda similar to David. He was smart, brilliant but he also was a firecracker. He often couldn't just chill and think things through, not listening to anyone and choosing instead to engage in impulsive behaviors. In my friend's case he chilled out over time as he grew older, even getting married with kids. David is similar, just in a fucked up situation that pushed him to his darker, more impulsive tendencies. I mean, he could have simply sold the implant, gotten a low paying job, went to a cheaper school and have a semi tolerable life.....but David fell to his flaws from the very start.
These are some great things to bring up and warrants discussion. I didn't see a lot of these as actual plot holes personally. But I'll only address a few since it's too long. First off, you kinda have to look at that con in ep2 from their perspective. She thought this random kid stole their expensive cyberware and informed Maine and the crew. It wasn't out of ill intent towards David specifically. She was part of Maine's crew for quite some time and he just met David that day. Sure, you see it as a bad thing but that's because you're watching it through the main character's lens. For Lucy, she merely helped her crew find their missing Sandy. Just didn't expect to like David as much as she did. She didn't even lie about the things they talked about. The fun they had was genuine. Second, I love Rebecca (arguably best girl), but I don't think she would have been the better choice for David. I think if things didn't work out the way they did with David and Lucy, David will most likely be an Arasaka guinea pig already halfway through the show's timeline. The only reason he lasted that long was because Lucy erased his files and kept the runners off his back. Rebecca unfortunately cannot hold off high-level runners. Even Kiwi can literally put her out of commission in an instant. And by the end, David would have gone out as just another soul taken by Arasaka with no glory whatsoever and none of his friends there. The show wouldn't be the same without Rebecca, but I would have found it far less interesting if Lucy and David didn't happen. Lucy gives David breaks from the clusterf*ck that is Night City and gives an outsider's perspective as she sees it as a prison. But Rebecca is 100% absorbed in that prison and did not see past it. Which I think is one of the reasons Becca couldn't take David out of cyberpsychosis when Lucy could. His best memories with Lucy do not involve Night City, fighting, and guns. In fact, she usually takes him out of it. Like the BD to the moon or the trip into the desert outside the city. I do think Lucy not killing Farraday when she had the chance was a stupid mistake tho.
I know a lot of people have already discussed the "insurance as an EMT" plot hole (or lack thereof) but two things I wanted to add. 1) benefits in this world are incredibly small, even in the big corporations. Like in the game, one of them boasts about offering a whopping 5 paid days off a year. A smaller thing like public EMT (what she was) probably offered little if any benefits. 2) The Trauma Team coverage is incredibly expensive, but is a good example to compare. I don't know if anything has pricing in 2077, but in the 2020 rpg, premium coverage went as high as $34k a month.
Emts in Colorado are independently contracted, like uber eats. Got a buddy who was an emt there it was an eye opener to learn the ambulance drivers aren't a part of the hospital.
I'm an EMT, a lot of private agencies have very poor/non-existent healthcare. Trauma Team is supposed to be premium insurance, makes a lot of sense that she only could get the chop shop doc.
1: David's mom has big financial issues and likely doesn't have the money for an insurance. 2: while lucy might act a bit illogical near the end, her actions outside that are consistent with the development of her character. 3: Kiwi is completely consistent in her character, working together untill its more valuable not to. 4: David was burned by the corporations and defies them at every corner. He is also always in an arms race with his enemies. He actively chooses to go down this path.... Mate, these aren't plotholes, these are things you would've preferred to go differently.
David's mom not having health insurance... Is the point? Based on what we see in this universe, she would still have to pay.. so she clearly opted to put that money into savings and David's college... Remember the beginning she barely got the money for the headset.. which David"solved" because she didn't have the Eddie's. Lucy was playing David in the begining.. so most of the Lucy we saw in the first act was a persona to allure David into the trap she set like a spider... The rest was her going through some shit, and getting more comfortable.. but also growing more afraid.. like she's clearly not dealing well with everything but put on a cold face.. just like David.. The kick eh.. I'll kinda give you that.. but she also probably decided a kick was a more likely blow to hit from the angle she was in, then a forward aggressive attack seeing as he saw her.. so it kinda works but it could go either way so ehh Kiwi didn't really trust him.. she knew she was playing with fire but went into the flames anyways.... As to why she did it. Honestly it was a little out of left field so idk about that it was a little odd but clearly she warned us and her friends.. so it's not out of her character.. David's choices is like a major point of the show.. he believes he's different.. and he's clearly addicted and driven by the things people wanted from him and who he looked up too.. aka he's impressionable.. Maine was like a father.. a chosen father... So yes he followed him and thinks he can fly even higher.. his choices track and thematically track.. it shows that even though he's smart..that doesn't mean he can just beat addiction, trauma and hybris.. just like every other cyberpsycho before and after him.... Also always remember there are different smarts.. retaining knowledge and using knowledge, even tacticioning, socializing etc are all different smarts and skillets.. Also remember character flaws aren't inherently plot holes as well. Lol Agreed. The train and car physics I 100% agree and bugged me lol Gun jams because he doesn't have full control.. his system is reject... Cyberpsychosis.. ok it's early onset cyberpsychosis.. between that and the more frequent injections it's the way the show was subtly telling us that he's going to lose it soon.. and he does.. he could also just be running old miltech parts which don't have reasonable replacements for the firepower they can dish out. So he puts up with the quirks till a good set comes in.. we also don't see it jam up on David from what I remember. Further driving the point that it was the former. Sandevistan is a maybe.. we don't know how they set up tracking in cyberpunk.. or if it's easily circumvented.. Kiwi yeah.. that was a little weak I agree.. at least from what we were shown.. maybe some key pieces are missing..
EMT with no insurance happens even today sometimes, and this is night city we are talking about. You either do good bucks through shady stuff or you work for a major corpo, other than that you have no way to get enough money for an insurance
It’s implied that Gloria could have gotten insurance but wanted David to get the best education possible so sacrificed that which in the end cost her life.
#2 Lucy's choices is because everything you see in that second episode is a fake Lucy. It was all an act to get David interested in her until Maine could arrive (except for the Moon scene, that was genuine.)
about maine's gun arm, I think the ripper-doc talks about it when its in David. The arms seem to be the gorilla arm model and the wrist rocket launcher was jammed in after-market.
With Lucy and Maine’s cyber ware I think it’s more of game mechanic. With Lucky’s Monowire usually they’re just meant for burst damage til the damage drop makes it useless but in a way I can agree that it’s weird not seeing further use of her cyber ware. With Maine’s well he somehow fixed a cannon on the arm cannon implant into the gorilla arms which the two aren’t even meant to be together so I can see why it malfunctions a lot.
Gloria not having health insurance was 100% the result of her spending most of her money for David's very expensive education. She probably knew how important good health insurance was but she couldn't afford both Arasaka academy and the health insurance so she just hoped she isn't going to need it since she was young and healthy. I think that her not having benefits is also realistic, it's a hypercapitalist dystopia where people like EMTs don't get those kinds of benefits, everyone is left to fend for themselves.
I already left a comment before, but I can't let this point slide either! David may have been smart, and it makes sense that he would see past the mistakes of the people that came before him. That doesn't change the fact that this was the message of the entire show, AND the cyberpunk 2077 game. These people feel like they have nothing, they begin their cyber-path, they find meaning and purpose, but are only remembered by how they perished. The idea is that everyone who follows this path is doomed to fail, no matter how great they are. On the other hand, going down this path is the only way to feel alive, or for any length of your life span have a purpose in night city.
As someone who works as an EMT I’ll tell you it is not too far fetched. Though maybe not in a sense of EMTs being without insurance but ambulance companies penny pinching on insurance. Most ambulance companies in the US are privatized and generally pinch on a lot of things as they are not profitable. Also Trauma Team in this universe is it’s own company and you need a plan through them. I wouldn’t be surprised if David’s mom is covered through something else that just isn’t great coverage.
I'm inclined to think David's eventual suicide path with chrome is just his arrogance and thinking that he was special that made him blind to the idiocy he was indulging in.
Kiwi probably saw the signs of cyber psychosis in David and also remembered of Maine’s demise, bringing down Dorio with him. Since Kiwi knew David was more powerful she likely wanted to jump ship before.
As a former EMT, I knew a bunch of other emts who didn't have health insurance because they couldn't afford to pay for it and keep paying bills. Not crazy for a dystopian society to have people still have that issue
3:23 im glad finally somebody recognizes that Becca was arguably a better fit for David. He did not deserve or appreciate her as much as he should have. She fought back to back with him. Warned him. Comforted him. Kept him sane when he was losing his mind. Even though Lucy worked to protected David going as far as to Sacrifice Maine and Dorio she was to Aloof and cyncial. Rebecca was open and direct and would yell at you if your doing something stupid when you needed to ehar it. She wouldnt have stopped david from going psycho but it would have delayed it at least if Lucy didnt get captured or told David.i feel so bad for her she deserved to be loved.
4:06 this is a fun one! By making the car turn quickly, you can turn that translational energy(across the road) into rotational energy (spinning around its center). This is from the frictional force on the cars tires causing a torque on the car because it is not directly in line with its center of mass. Once the car starts rotating, one side pushes against the road, while the other side lifts into the air. If David can somehow get the car to stop rotating along its axis (idk lol), he can make it gain a little altitude based on his original speed.
Lucy doesn't or didn't show her true self or one of her true self with anyone until she got close to David, she also has some similarities with him about proving to her self she can do something and mostly likely she ment with her life.
With his mom not having insurance there is a shard in game you can find that says only about 3% of night city are insured. It’s not far off either. Even now I know people who work as medical staff and their insurance doesn’t allow them to visit the hospital where they work. The creator, Mike Pondsmith, once said in an interview that Cyberpunk is not about saving the world, it’s about saving yourself. That sticks in my mind with Kiwi’s betrayal and what went wrong with David. He many times tried to save others.
Kiwi's situation was that, this was a big opportunity to hit the big leagues with a bigger net profit. If you think about, in Davids crew they are making money but not enough to get out of the town or go to the moon in general otherwise David and Lucy would have been in vacation at this point. Pretty sure when Kiwi heard that Arasaka would be their partner. that would be huge. But of course as she always says, don't trust anyone.
Trauma Team Platinum service is for wealthiest people... not for ordinary EMTs... Its a health service that guarantees to get their customers out of bad situation, despite the danger etc.. only "plot hole" in Edgerunners would be that Trauma failed twice in the series.. (JK and Tanaka), which is something that just doesn't happen to them that often...
Most of these aren't plot holes but showing how people are flawed individuals. One thing ya gotta keep in mind that this is cyberpunk which means it's a dystopian future where most people are poor and barely able to get by. So it makes sense Gloria doesn't have insurance...ya gotta be rich or have a corpo job... platinum coverage isn't cheap. Also, there are rarely happy endings and it's an anime so ya gotta suspend your disbelief at some point.
Only Corpos can afford good health insurance in the cyberpunk future. Take a look at all the cyberpunk lore and you'll see that its extremely common for the working class to live like the Martinez' regardless of the occupation. I'm sure most of the cops in night city don't have "Good" health coverage, definitely not trauma team. That's why she wanted David to have climb the ladder at Arasaka
She had insurance. It was just not very good insurance, which makes sense in this scenario. The Dr. Caring for her, even made mention of this when informing David she died.
1) This one is actually made worse when a character (I think it was Maine) questions how she was killed when she even worked for EMT and its just brushed off. 2) I 100% agree with the Faraday part but the broodyness she developed came into being because of what she told David in ep 8. it used to be that she didn't give a damn about her life since she became an edgerunner, but ever since she found David and fell in love with him she felt as though she had something to lose. So it makes sense in the second half of the show that she's moody all of the time because now she actually cares about her life and David's life yet the two of them have aready delved deep into a dangerous path. "There's no going back from a gig involving arasaka" were Lucy's words exactly. That's also why she(sort of) betrayed the crew when she deep dove into the Arasaka suit. 3) Faraday was going to wipe out anyone who knew about the Sandalvistan David had. This included Kiwi, so maybe she thought if she cooperated she could be exempted from the wipe out. After all, even if she refused he would find someone else so there was no point in being loyal. It was a lose lose situation and she was betting on being seen as too useful to be disposed of, and was hoping to just be exiled from NC while alsp escaping the edgerunning life. 4)I have seen plenty of very smart people make stupid life choices despite having all the right outlets. Sometimes it isn't a matter of practicality and stability that drives a person to a certain decision, as a matter of fact you'd be surprised that alot of the time its emotion that can drive even smart people to do certain things. He was constantly looked down on in the Arasaka school and it did nothing but become a burden for the mother he loved by adding more bills to pay. So imagine being told you could rejoin that same school if you just Groveled some more while a man who knew your mother, respected your mother and even helped your mother make it by in the past, gives you a place in his crew. Take practicality aside, the answer to what David would choose is obvious, especially given how young he was. Him chroming up and saying hes different is more of a coping mechanism to push himself to the unreal aspirations because of what happened with Maine. his attachment made him want to inherent his dream and instead of accepting it would kill him earlier, he lied to himself so he could keep pushing forward, saying he was different. 5) the only thing I can say to MAYBE justify is when he used the Sandalvistan on the car, he was actually fighting the cars autopilot and that's why it jerked around the way it did. Everything else doesn't make sense though.
Your first point, EMTS are grossly underpaid. Depending on where you work, you also have shit health insurance. That's just the way it is. Often times, your health insurance reflects your pay. If you're more valuable to an employer, you're more insured, and you're paid more. EMTS are under appreciated and treated like shit, so there's your answer. Also, why should the future, especially a dystopian future be any different? It definitely wouldn't be better.
Nobody noticed David because everyone is dealing with their own suffering and thinking about what's next, how to survive the next day, they were distracted by them selves or because of someone or something else. Phone, friends, zoning out; take your pick. It has to do with physcology of self and state of being in a world that you have no control of.
Don’t know why people missed this in the show. We literally get to see the difference between the levels of insurance. They say over and over during maines scene that the client is a platinum member. They also wear entirely different clothing and have way better equipment. Gloria was not able to afford a platinum life insurance policy. We also have the scene with David in the ambulance, clearly there’s a massive difference in what they could do for a patient with flying transport vs wheels….
1) Its Cyberpunk, insurance is cracy expensive, everybody wants it, only the elites can afford it 2) Its Cyberpunk, never trust a soul and only look after yourself - so runners dont help for free and probably would have been to late anyways 3) David is Trauma-tized (hehe get it?) he doesnt have a goal and inherits the goals from his Mom and Mayne 4) Lucy is also Re-Traumatized by her near loss of David in Episode 6, which is a kind of Betrayal for her 5) It is a common trope in Cyberpunk that either a team member or the fixer f**cks you up hard, also I think that Farraday had more leverage than just Money and Runners sooner or later want an out and will grab it by any means 6) Ok yeah she could have gone for Faraday but she was captured and killed two and got out, I think that was everything you could expect of someone in that Situation 7) There are no happy endings So I dont realy see any of the points you made as plotholes. They are necesarry for drama and believable, as they are common in the setting.
we don't know how much that premium health care costs since only the mega-rich are the clients. It could be $100s of thousands a month for the subscription for all we know. Also, isn't the reason the mother not having health insurance because of the cost of schooling, which also could be $100s of thousands a year, since it is pretty much exclusive to the rich. It is possible that the mother chose David's education over health care.
I feel that for David’s choices, he wants to protect the team, believing that he was special, even though he kind of was, he was still pushed too far. Which I feel that that’s the message of David’s story. Prodigies have limits too. David, to protect everyone around him, looking out for all of them, sacrificed his own humanity, thinking he could take it all on his own, which would of course, take Lucy to do everything on her own, not wanting to see David suffer. But in the end, David realised that in the attempt to save everyone, he lost everything. But he remembered the happy moments he had with them, and smiled all the way till the road of life ended. It took Adam Smasher, the myth and the legend himself to smack some sense into David, and put him back in his place basically a snap back into reality. It was only then when David looked back at his life instead of looking forward, and finally smiled.
yea I often forgot that he David was very gifted and smart, throughout the show he constantly only rely on his chrome and cyber upgrades to the point when some of the characters pointed out that he was smart, I had to second guess where did they get the info from. I understand that there's only 10 ep so they couldn't fit every single theme and character traits in there, still would've been cooler if he rely on his technical knowhow and things the edgerunners wouldn't know to show how smart he is.
the thing about lucy not just offing faraday immediately is probably because she cant use her ability like that, weve seen it before where it got caught up in bits and she had to pull out her gun personally i think the BIGGEST plothole is when they captured tanaka and he just didnt tranq him for some reason, it made 0 sense, he knows he doesnt want to be a corpo, hes expressed it multiple times, but now because conflict is fun hes hesitating?
David's mom may have known the value of insurance that doesn't mean she had the income for it. It is shown early in the series that nearly all of David's mom's income goes to his education which has put them in a financial bind. As far as David's behavior that can be attributed to him losing the only family member he knew. I agree that Lucy should have been more open with David but her past has put up physiological barriers to prevent her from forming relationships that could hurt her. As for Arasaka they only valued Lucy for her skills and considered her disposable. They didn't bother to look for her because they didn't care as there where more to replace her.
I tried making sense of kiwis motive. It make sense for me if when faraday asked her to find the hacker they didn't know it was lucy. They laid a trap for the netrunner which was just another job for her, paying well, and then when they caught her kiwi found out it was lucy. At that point she figured out david would never forgive her, so she could only side with faraday going forward. So she didnt have much choice going forward and had to betray everyone and make enough money to disappear, so she kept going, but there was no way out.
I see people saying it already, but most of this can be explained with game logic or game lore yeah. Even the small stuff, like maybe lucy only had enough monowire charge to kill those two guards. Or davids mom not having insurance cause she was probably too broke and i doubt its provided
Actually most of these has answers like. In Cyberpunk being an EMT doesnt mean youre insured. Platinum care is only affordable to corpos. She didnt have allies with Maines crew she just sold on the side to them. David having good grades doesnt mean he will make good life decisions. Chrome is addictive. His bad decisions came from trauma.
David clearly had an addiction to chrome, it’s not as simple as David noticing other people going crazy over chrome. Like smoking most people see other people dying of cancer but it doesn’t stop others from smoking
Here's one I have. How did his mom so easily smuggle out the Sangdevista augment? If it went missing, the corporate would immediately start tracking it down. And when it suddenly walked right into view in school, their decision was to what, wait and see what happens?
David mom spent all her money putting David thru Arasaka. Remember when Kiwi revealed David was an Arasaka student Main said "that's why Gloria was always strapped for eddies" These hints Arasaka schools are extremely exspensive. Davids mother not having insurrance is easily explainable but the other plots holes there are no answers.
Gloria not having Medical Benefits shows that she was willing to make extra money to push David in Arasaka Academy. David and Lucy were both traumatized by the deaths of Dorio and Maine, who was held deeply to them, and experiencing something like that could alter their personalities two-fold. Maine while going under the pre-conditions of Cyberpsycosis smacked the hell out of Kiwi, so she decided to betray the gang, despite the deaths of Maine and Dorio.
Hey man all great shows has good plot holes my favorite small plot hole is when David wanted to talk to David Lucy they went on top of the building it was cloudy the entire conversation but the next scene the rocket is launching the sky’s a clear lol
Counter argument for Gloria's death. The information is mostly in game so anime only wouldn't cover it. The platinum insurance is mostly used by the rich and those high in the Corpo ladder. If I remember right it's like 10,000 Eddie's a month which doesn't even cover everything. And for Gloria case being an EMT, she's is be considered to be scrappers from what Trauma team said during the accident. So considering how Trauma team works and from what we seen. I believe in the world of cyberpunk in NC she would probably be 1 tier higher from basic insurance package. Because that's how much the city believes she's worth. And getting help from Maine, I belive he already did by being a potential buyer and have them resold in the black market. Since we already seen that potentially being the case when the 1 EMT woman pulled a gun on David and Lucy in the truck for his cyberware which leads up to one of the most popular scenes in the show.
According to Cyberpunk red the cheapest Trauma Team insurance is the Silver package at 500 ED a month which is the price of a Sandevistan Cyberware which is a pricey military grade Cyberware. Also according to the rule book a Medtech earns about 100 to 200 ED a week at best for regular Medtech (rank 1 to 4 in the RPG) which she would probably be and this would be around 500 to 1000 ED a month even if the numbers are just for the pen and paper game it should give us an idea of how expensive Health insurance is in this world and how un-affordable it would be for her with all the other cost of life she would have to pay in addition to sending David to a Corpo school.
Lucy could not tell David about Arasaka's plans for him because she knew David would face the problem and endanger himself instead of hiding from it as she would like him to. Thus she decided to hide David from the Arasaka herself (this contrast highlights David's tendency to run into the problem and Lucy's tendency to run away, as she did when she escaped)
Gloria was dirt poor, the Martinez family had a hard time paying for their clothes to be fully washed. And kiwi herself said to not trust anyone in this city. The Lucy plot holes make sense though.
Debunking RIDICULOUS Edgerunners Fan Theories: ruclips.net/video/99xd-N0iReU/видео.html
They make a point of saying she spent all her money on his school
I agree with everything you have said except David mom having health insurance just because she's a EMT. There are many examples in the real world where large corporations screw over or down right tells employees to either go above and beyond or do something dangerous just to save money. Most businesses wouldn't offer health-care if they weren't required by law to do so. What's to say several mega corporations in that future world send lobbyists to pay congress to get rid of that law so they don't have to spend money providing heath benefits.
I feel like David's mom not having health insurance even though she worked as an EMT was completely intentional. I think it was supposed to be an eye opener to just how awful life had become, that not even an EMT would have work provided healthcare.
This is the whole point of cyberpunk. Humans are just meat to be replaced. Cause it's cheaper
Tell me you’ve never been broke without telling me you’ve never been broke
Thats how it was when i was a medic. Insurance was so damn expensive thru the company
I basically agree with this conversation, I would like to point out I think she could have had the best trauma team package but choose not to to basically put everything in to David's education
Let's also add she probably wasn't ignorant to the value it held but rather couldn't begin to afford it she couldn't keep the lights or washer on in her own home so it wouldn't make sense she could afford insurance from the sounds of it she could barely afford her sons tuition bit thought it would be a better investment fir everyone if he got the money rather than her which it would have been if David didn't cut corners she didn't have the worst luck of her life
I think that with Lucy, the shift in her personality is her dropping the persona she created as her mask to deal with the world. That headstrong chaos loving grin was just an act. I think as her relationship with David progresses she reverts to who she really is versus who she wants others to view her as. Afterall, she chases the moon... what does the moon's tarot represent?
Wow the moon tarot is extremly fitting... nice detail
What about Kiwi?
Funny, that you bring up Tarot cards, I would think that she turned reverse moon after the whole thing. Her eyes looked as if she went into depression and had dealt with the many nightmares of losing David and the crew. She later finds a new purpose in life and becomes the Sun Tarot?
The manic pixie dream girl Lucy is introduced as is 100% a ruse being used to lure David in and figure out whether or not he has Maine's cyberware. She even has two major mask slips during the episode to reinforce that- her reaction to David's comments on the poster, and the moon BD. While the first mask slip is fine, the second one makes a lot less sense when you start to factor in the background we learn about Lucy later on.
Lucy escaped Arasaka (somehow) and then survived on her until getting taken in by Kiwi. It follows that shes is a distant, cold, and untrusting person who tries hard to come off as detached. Despite all this, Lucy bafflingly decides to show an incredibly intimate facet of herself to someone she's been actively manipulating and who she knows will likely be dead in a few hours, even though she has absolutely no reason to.
The David/Lucy relationship is honestly kind of nonsensical to me because the show really doesn't take the time to reconcile and build things up with the two after Lucy's initial betrayal. David basically just simps for Lucy from start to finish, and the show tries to hamfistedly play it off as a "love at first sight" sort of deal. Sure, with the right build up, it could work in the first half, but once Maine dies and Lucy effectively shuts David out, their relationship should be finished.
I think a big part of the reason why many people tend to favour a David and Rebecca pairing over a Lucy one is that Rebecca is, by far, the more consistent of the two, and she provides David exactly with what he's looking for to boot. Sort of have to remember that one of the first two people to show David genuine respect and intact with him amiably was Maine - which was why David latched onto him so quickly. The other character to do this was Rebecca, but she's sidelined because the script is hyperfocused on an endpoint that it forgets to consider the logical consequence of other elements.
Rebecca is sort of her own bundle of issue, though. She's clearly a later addition to the script that was crammed in to fill a role not suited to her characterization.
@@spnked9516
Like many have said, this show REALLY needed to be 12 episodes, not 10.
Also, I highly recommend you play the video game as part of your research as I've seen you fall into pitfalls the game lore goes through and lets you appreciate the show more:
1. Gloria's Death: the cyberpunk setting is an Anarcho-Capitalistic Dystopia, which means that employees are not guaranteed things we take for granted in today's world thanks to labor Law. Corporations will consume you and spit you out, specially on the lower hierarchy (operative) levels. So in Gloria's case, just because you work for EMT does not mean you get insurance as a job benefit. Also, it is clear that Gloria's wage is not enough and she is making a sacrifice to send David to a top tier school, which is why she's doing shady deals on the side... She does not have the money to buy insurance, or would rather use the money for David's sake and take the risk.
2. Lucy choices: 2 words... emotional involvement
4. David choices: David is a intellectually capable BUT that doesn't mean he is emotionally smart or mature enough to make the best choices.... The whole first episode is the point that no matter how smart, capable, educated and/or gifted he is. He will never fit as he is not of the same "pedigree" as his classmates. Also he chromes up heavily because the expectations that he is "built different" (which went straight to his head) came early in the show by being told using sandy 8 times is not normal and people can only do like 2 or 3 times a day. Also one of Maines early recommendations is that he chromes up as to help him with his new edgerunner life. It is to remind us that despite his capabilities, David is still a teen and makes mistakes as one. Finally, a big part of David's character arc is that he has no motivations of his own. He started the show doing his mother wish. (despite, hating it) after she died he took Lucy's dream as his north star, but David really has no true goal in this show.
5. Things that dont make sense:
The car gaining altitude: This would not be a studio trigger show without this kind of thing (same with the bumpercar cars at the end of the show)
Maine cyberware: shoddy (and/or second hand) cyberwear is common, Maine is heavily chromed so it can be overstraining his nerves which can cause it to jam/ glitch.
tracking sandevistan: It is not an Arasaka product.
Tracking Lucy: Shes a heavily skilled Netrunner, she can cover her tracks.
You forgot about Kiwi.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 you could make the argument that edge runners in NC might want to either escape or become so well off that they don't have trouble living their lives (glass ceilings suck). So even though faraday is incredibly shady, he does pay top dollar and could arguably hold enough sway to enrichen someone's life. So much so that you could take a gamble on him.
@@floofiestmuffin6945 I also feel like kiwi is an object lesson in the nature of trust and hypocrisy. She says don't trust, and betrays the people closest to her, and when she puts trust in Faraday, she gets burned. She basically betrays herself by not trusting her own advice, and pays with her life.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 A the time i wasnt really that clear about Kiwi and i wasnt really gonna sit down and rewatch big chunks of the show just for a comment. I might as well make a video at that point.
@@algis-kun8777
Ooo, a video? I'm excited to see it😃
BTW, if you really are gonna make it maybe try addressing these points.
Sorry for the long read.😓
(1) This show is built upon alot of people immediately understanding what's going on and why it's happening only in a short amount of time. That's why its short form of storytelling is praised by critics and audiences. So when you have a character whose actions actually impact the plot in a major way there needs to be an understandable reason why.
(2) Kiwi's betrayal contextualized as "seeing that the Edgerunners were doomed because David was going the way of Maine" IS a good explanation, but the problem is, if that really was the case in the show, then why are people so split on seeing it that way? They're usually not that divided when it comes to understanding the characters, so why? I myself re-watched this show and there was NO indication that Kiwi was upset, fearful, or doubting of David's performance as a leader.
(3) MAYBE if Kiwi had a talked to Lucy about how she should convince David to chrome down, spied on them to make sure she did, but then showed disappointment when Lucy failed and thus turned to Faraday, it could've worked but it still doesn't explain why Kiwi would betray the friends she's known for a long time now.
(4) I've heard somewhere that the betrayal was supposed to illustrate a poetic irony of Kiwi trusting and Lucy not trusting both lead to tragedy, but A) we've never seen enough of their poetry together to make that big of a connection, and B) Kiwi is one of those "closed off" type characters that really needed more time dedicated to fleshing her out. Lots of people agree that we indeed should've gotten 12 episodes not 10, and issues like Kiwi's betrayal is one of the reasons.
Thanks for replying!😃👍
And again, sorry for the long read.😓
I hope these points were helpful if you indeed decide to make a video on it.
I.d.k. man, I just want more Edgerunners Content or at least an OVA named "Kiwi: A Cyberpunk's Story".😖
Well David not choosing the one that loves him or he deserves is not a plot hole. It's life. And it's as realistic as it gets.
I can’t understand how he considers this a plothole,even if I don’t agree with the other ones I can still understand them,but this one I can’t. It’s not like our heart goes scanning for the best option,it just chooses whoever clicks and sometimes there isn’t even logic behind it. And they even had such amazing chemistry! They bounced off of each other so well that it was always a treat to see them interact and that’s why they worked so well as a couple.
You guy's know the meaning of sarcasm?
It was very obviously a joke
Please don’t play the “it’s just a joke bro!” Card ffs…if that is a joke then the entire video also is because he was as serious on this point as he was with every other one.
@@EliteEpicGamerz You must not know what a joke looks like then, if you think that was a joke. Stop trying to talk for people you don't know, dude. If it was a joke, he would've stated it was a joke by now.
Trauma Team is an optional service for the ultra-wealthy. They specifically say they're leaving them for the standard EMTs.
Lucy was playing a role to draw David in to steal his Sandevistan.
Kiwi nearly got killed by the last team leader who was falling into Cyberpsychosis. David was going down the same path.
Yeah Gloria actually did have insurance it was just really shitty and not trauma team
@@CodeeXD really shitty insurance might as well be nonexistent insurance. Could’ve used that money to going into insurance for David’s education.
@@TheGeoCheese pretty sure nonexistent insurance means they doctor wouldnt even let you in the door, without upfront payment.
The real plothole is why the TT showed up to begin with, or at all. Later on, they show TT shows up when there is a specific signal from flatlining insurance members. Without such a signal, why are they there. Why do they check on her at all? There is little evidence of other people in the immediate area, and TT being there is purely a plot contrivance.
I can see TT being dystopian enough that leave it to other EMT, and tbf, other EMT got there in time to save mom’s life. However the level of responsibility would be basically only to report the problem, not to treat them.
Morally and practically though, if there’s no immediate danger to the victums life, they shouldn’t have to intervene. If there is, at least morally ( although not legally ) then immediate emergency first aid until they can be transported to better healthcare.
However this is an uncaring dystopia and its surprising to me they mentioned other emts at all. They aren’t total dicks if they think other responders can handle it.
@@luzhang2982 its highway accident many cars in there some premium member might got caught in the fire
but yeah TT doesnt need to check on her because it should be automated signal from premium member
1. She can't afford premium insurance and put a kid through school
2. Being "wild and independent" is what you are when you have nothing you care about and nothing to lose. Once she starts seeing her life being at risk (David being taken and her life being exposed) she starts acting like most people do.
3. Kiwi betrayed the crew because Farraday was her lover. It's not super obvious, but he hints at it several times. Yeah, she makes the same mistake as she said not to...that's the point. She even basically says as much.
4. David had no choice but to chrome up. Being an Edgerunner is a path to death. He thinks he's special. That's also said a million times in the anime.
5. Some of those are valid points. I don't understand the car jump thing, ha ha. As for Lucy being tracked down by Arasaka...that's what she's doing when she kills those dudes. She's keeping herself and David safe from Arasaka. She has been on the run her whole life, yes, but she's also an expert at wiping out trails left online.
Excuse me?? Faraday and Kiwi lovers???
Also David's act to continue to chrome up was honestly Arrogent and Selfish.
As far as car physics goes...when has Cyberpunk 2077 ever had good car physics anyway?
Faraday and Kiwi? Lovers? No.
Kiwi wanted out of Night City, and this was her chance to do that, so she took it. The promise of a life outside of Night City clouded her judgement, and lead to her betraying everyone to work with Faraday and get out of the city.
@@Uniacoty alot of people where saying he was special even doc says it once and it just got kver his head
@@kawansaymon2082 Yes he was special. He was highly resistant to cyberware, but everyone has limit no matter how high it is. I say his act is selfish and arrogant though because his hand/body begins to tremble just like Maine so it's clear he hit his limit. However he choose to ignore it and STILL try to get more upgrades.
No insurance even for someone who work in EMT actually make sense in this dystopian world. Also, EMT are separate department from TTI (Trauma Team International). TTI is a completely private company. Both David & Lucy behaviors turned 180 clearly because of how traumatized they were after Maine & Dorio's deaths. This is even more traumatic for Lucy, after finding out that David is in Arasaka crossfire, just like her, someone who has been trying to escape Arasaka's grasps for years. "Laying low" is her best course of action, while also hunting down Arasaka Netrunners.
well in game its pretty obvious that working for corporation is hell on Earth,Militech was voted as best corp to work for in NC because they offer 5 days of paid vacation,unlimited stimulants and 30% of their employees getting pension package.
I think even faraday had no trauma team to back him up
I think Kiwi's betrayal was sparked by Maine snapping and slapping ghe shit out of her, nearly killing her. The payout was huge, high risk, but so was staying in business. Sure, Maine's been dead when she does betray, but she's around other cyberjocks who are destined to the same fate. It was her out.
Though going straight there and not expecting Faraday to just dispose of her was dumb. I was thinking of it as it was unfolding from the moment faraday was arranging a meetup. She deserved it though.
Other than that. She had no team loyalty. She probably felt like she was on the edge of having to leave the team whenever Lucy comes back. That's pretty much the feel. David always ask for Lucy for the job but cause Lucy doesn't want to, Kiwi does it. So she's slapped the hell out by Maine, then unappreciated by David.
I think she knew faraday was shady and just was planning to outplay him. Thought she could scam the scammer but faraday is just always two steps ahead
Kiwi betrayal was not sparked by Maine. Kiwi since the start if you understand her enough are quite similiar with Lucy (since Kiwi is Lucy mentor). Kiwi since the start never had the same dream as Maine which are to be a Night City legends, kiwi goals were to make enough Eddies to escape night city similar to lucy, and she saw those opportunity of escape with Faraday offer to betray the gang. That's why Kiwi was adamant to leave night city after Faraday pays her and assured Arasaka to honor the deal with amnesty. But alas faraday betray her by killing her since the deals were never there in the first place since Arasaka order is to kill anyone so there's no witnesses of the project.
I think she knew deep down that Faraday was going to try and pull something, but if she didn't go to him and just left the city, she would have betrayed her allies for absolutely nothing and she would have lost the eddies she needed to have a chance at finding a life outside of Night City. She was checkmated.
@@laken6461 she played the game wrong though just like how Evelyn Parker played the game wrong. Kiwi could’ve just steal enough eddies and bail the fuck out but instead fell to the biggest lie Night City promises.
People keep saying this about Lucy but seem to be missing alot of context to her choices. She didnt share the information to the crew because in reality there isnt much they could do to help her that wouldnt get them killed (half of them died without even directly pursuing Arasake so they wouldve if they did for sure). On top of this, as you stated, she was taught not to trust a soul in night city and kept true to that even if this group of "friends" was supposed to be trustworthy which Kiwi wasnt. Her change in personality can be explained in multiple ways, mainly that after seeing what was in store for David, she distanced herself in order to prevent his downfall in the hands of the exoskeleton suit. Had she involved him, he was for sure going to end up in that suit so her plans to do it alone kept him as far from it as possible since hes a chrome junkie. The other "plot holes" are fair, mainly issues with writing honestly like her not killing Faraday because she kinda cant at this point so that David can get his revenge.
I dont think most plot holes that he mentions are actually plot holes, are more like things that he didnt like or disagree, I can find arguments against almost everything he said
I mean she wasn’t telling the crew everything to begin with she David was literally asking the crew hey what’s with Lucy and they are just like 🤷♀️ you should ask her. I legit think besides two points it feels like he just didn’t understand the show
This.
I always got the strong impression Lucy's worst fear was that David would actually WANT the Cyberskeleton if he found out about it.
Sure, he'd never agree to be an Arasaka lab rat, but he could sure as hell steal the thing.
And what reason would he have to doubt that he could handle it? He IS "special" after all.
@@pedrorezende4873 so why didn't Lucy murder Faraday and save David the trouble of having to rescue her?
@@mr.p215 i think that it might have something to do with a trauma team subscription. like with the dad of the bully. if faraday died maybe it would autocall security or some insurance kill squad.
While many have addressed the issue of Gloria's lack of medical coverage from several angles, I haven't seen a comment point out something very important to the setting. Night City is NOT in the US even though it is on the California coast. California isn't even in the US in the Cyberpunk setting. It's a free state, and Night City is a free city within that free state. No one living there has any kind of legal protection. No constitution. No Bill of Rights. No anti-discrimination or pro-worker anything. Unions aren't just illegal, attempting to form one gets you executed with or without a trial.
If you can't pay for it, you don't have it.
Kiwi's betrayal is the most obvious thing, Maine literally punched her face clean off. She herself specifically notes that no one says please or thank you.
I feel like this point is that hardest to rebuke by going against the main point she made the whole show
But the fact she would trust Faraday is honestly really dumb for a character's whole persona "don't trust anyone"
@@Uniacoty Agreed, and it was Maine which she now know that he went Cyber Psycotic, which was why he chose to randomly hit her, which when she betrayed all her allies they were all sane expect maybe David which Kiwi contributed to him going to extreme measures and going insane to save Lucy.
David also early on when we're shown he's the new boss, at their hangout area, he talked to Kiwi and said how much he appreciates her, and after all that she randomly just chooses to side with Faraday, without any context to why, it in general feels pointless and feels like it didn't make any form of sense.
@@Ramen.1 ye but I feel like her point goes both ways, she doesn't trust David and his crew and Faraday probably offered her enough money to never work again (considering he didn't intend to lay her, he probably offered some ludicrous amount), which clouded her judgement
@@Originul_ I think people forget that Kiwi didn't know she was trapping Lucy. She got a job offer from Faraday to find some anonymous netrunner that's been damaging arasaka, and she did the job for big pay.
Lucy went from being super happy to cold and distance later on because she felt guilty for lying to David. Also, more and more of her friends kept dying. There wasn't much for her to be happy about.
Responses:
1.) This is Night City
2.) Character development
3.) This is Night fucking City
4.) People going cyberpsycho out of an addiction for implanting cybernetics aren’t exactly the best father figures.
5.) Plot, janky physics, signs that Maine is slowly going cyberpsycho, etc.
Maines cyberware jamming was an early symptom of cyberpsychosis
No it was just faulty cyberware. The ripperdoc told David that it was a miracle it worked at all and suggested he get a better version but David wanted to use the same arms Maine had.
@@Silamon2 He says that it's an "oversized fossil" and that "jamming that [...] in was a miracle" -- not that it working at all was the miracle. Maine had bigger arms. Must have been tough getting that big thing in David's smaller arm. I'm sure the good doctor had more compact models, like the one we saw Adam Smasher use later and that's what he suggested. David turned him down due to sentimental reasons, and it never once malfunctioned for him that we saw.
@@josephinewang5201 The entire arm was replaced....
Maine had problems with the launcher before he ever showed symptoms of psychosis.
It was faulty hardware.
I apologize for misremembering the exact quote.
Edit:
"It's an oversized faucet. Arm socket connector's warped. Jamming that f---er in was a miracle. My advice, trash it. Got all kinds of next gen chrome out back and I know you got the scratch for it"
"NO thanks, this one's fine."
"Tsk. Fine. It's your funeral"
Sure sounds like faulty hardware to me?
Second Edit: and yes we never see it fail when David used it. All one times that he used it on screen, it worked. It worked a lot of the times Maine used it.
That doesn't mean it wasn't faulty. We also never see any other examples of cyberware failing because of psychosis. Not one other example of it.
Simple answer is, its just faulty hardware for the PLOT.
Rebecca (Pre-Timeskip) already showed great aim at guns. Then suddenly she misses all shot against the Homeless Psycho who was literally standing.
@@ayakakamisato3769 One can attribute that incident to emotional trauma interfering with her normal functions - in the real world people can experience impaired motor function when experiencing extreme rage and sorrow.
I ended up thinking that Gloria wasn't actually an EMT but like a crime scene mortuary assistant or a morgue worker. All the people working with her have the iconic neon yellow coat, but the other ambulance worker that tries to sell out David (a living patient) later on has a much darker orange jacket in the same style. This would also sorta explain a more ready access to implants to sell from corpses than actual living patients. In a similar vein I thought the sandy that David has was militech not arisaka? Cyberpsyco Chuck Norris was in the NUSA military so I thought Arisaka's data on the sandy was stolen and their interest in it was more from the viewpoint of the exoskeleton, so I doubt they can track it.
I forgot the other stuff I was gonna post so... To continue: Lucy's actions (other than with faraday) seem pretty consistent with a trauma response. She's confident when she's feeling free and unfettered, and not dealing with arasaka bullshit. When they start dealing with that and after she rats on David the first time are when she starts to withdraw. And she used net wizardry to hide herself from arasaka I guess? As for Kiwi, while I feel like her betrayal didn't make much sense I felt it was more out of a fear of corpo backlash vs. a want for money.
Well the average EMT is referred to as the meat wagon so yeah they're more glorified corpse retrieval groups
Instead of paying for insurance, D's mom allocated her earnings to his Tuition fee so he could study in the prestigious Arasaka academy
“Fight against Adam Sandler”. That killed me lmao.
EMT with no health insurance is pretty expected in the world of cyberpunk, you'd have to get f*cked in the a** before you could get good service.
Lucy felt guilty about David ever since she lied to him, she thinks it's her fault that he went down that rabbit hole but at the same time she doesn't really have a choice to stop him from doing so. She feels guilty for staying away from the crew for so long that she thinks if she ever came back they'd be mad, even if David keeps reassuring her they won't.
Lucy can't kill Faraday herself as it would get them into more trouble than what happened to David, remember he was still known to be sided with Militec at the time, if Lucy killed Faraday they'd have Arasaka, Adam, and Militec chasing them.
Kiwi's choices are probably the only plot holes, but if she's willing to betray her friends just to get out of NC, she was probably desperate to trust the scummiest of scum, also in writing an antagonist that's supposed to be evil, they intentionally make them look like scum, in the perspective of David and the others Faraday was probably just being cocky, but in the anime we see him actually being evil.
David's choices aren't him falling into a trap, it's him willingly walking into it knowing full well what would happen, he was pressured by the fact he wanted to save all the people around him, and there was no other choice to save them other than becoming a full cyborg.
David didn't follow Rebecca since David's dream was to help Lucy achieve her dream, which in his eyes was actually possible. Rebecca loved David because of David, but David loved Lucy because she had a dream.
All the things you pointed out about "Things that don't make sense" are mostly gags to the original game, and Maine's upgrades are completely fine, what's jamming it is his cyberpsychosis, the sadevistan and Lucy maybe Arasaka property, but they were equivalent to Soulkiller (Thing the protagonist stole in the game), which Hanako Arasaka (Daughter of the founder, Saburo Arasaka) didn't have value in.
This has to be a troll. David's mom not having insurance makes sense for Night City, it's every man for himself, why would an employer provide healthcare insurance when they could ask their employee to BUY it instead. Lucy never had her own dreams until she met David she was misanthropic and hated Arasaka, then a life with David became her dream clouding everything else. Also, Kiwi explains it herself why she betrays the crew, Lucy betrayed the crew and caused multiple deaths first and that team was a liability at that point, she just wanted a little extra on the way out.
Gloria's death can be explained in that even as a EMT was something along the lines of A. she simply wasn't offered the benefits, B. she was forced to opt out of the benefits for financial reasons (they could barely afford to pay for their laundry to be done, most American based companies take the money straight out of your check to pay for benefits), or C. her company only offered her the discount plan which is why Gloria was able to even be treated and cremated. Also it was made pretty obvious that Maine and crew had no idea about the state of Gloria being in the hospital or deceased until David mentioned it. While Maine clearly respected her, Gloria kept him at a distance. If she didn't keep Maine at a distance David and Maine would have at least known each other in passing since it was implied Gloria had several dealings with him and his crew.
So the EMT not having good health insurance was a deliberate choice on her part. She had the option to upgrade it by paying extra but she refused so she could have more money to pay for David's education. When David found out about this it added onto his self-loathing because he internally believed he killed his mom. That's also part of the reason he dropped out. That school was the reason she died and it just reminded him of how she killed herself for him.
i love clicking on videos like this just to look at the comments debunking every single point
1. Gloria outright states she doesn't have friends in the medical industry and that every Eddie goes to David's academia. Given he's going to school with billionaires' sons, her skipping insurance to make enough makes perfect sense in context.
2. Lucy only acted confident for one episode, which she states being for the sake of luring him in to get his Sandevistan back to Maine. Lucy's hot and cold behavioral patterns are similar to pretty much every modern e-girl, who pulls in orbiters. They do it because it works. It doesn't matter if Rebecca is more loyal, more "present" and his "ride or die"- Lucy through her behavior gave the appearance of a higher status female, and through intermittent, not constant attention, made her presence seem more valuable overall as it was scarcer.
Also, anime frequently goes with the rule of "the first girl introduced is the actual love interest."
3. Foreshadowing. Extremely on-the-nose foreshadowing.
4. The story behind David's cyber psychosis is the story of pretty much every addiction. You're special until you're not. "I'm three drinks in and I'm fine" before you break your neck on stairs. Not to mention he's still a kid with visible impulse control issues.
My wife is a nurse. She has terrible insurance and obscene prices. It could be more of that. Her plan didn’t even allow her visitors.
It could also be that she made sure every last cent went to David’s tuition. Hours after her death, we start seeing she was months past due on rent, bills, etc.
All your other points I agree with.
I think gloria didn't have insurance because the money that would have paid for it instead went to send David to Arasaka Academy. most likely that school must cost a hefty sum.
I just think Lucy never opened about to David about Saka's plans for him because she was afraid he'd end up pitting the team against the corp, leading to their deaths.
Alot of good that did
As to why Kiwi betrayed the crew I believe that there just might be some story between her and Faraday, that Faraday's got something on her that forces her to cooperate with him. It's my first thought, even though it is not even suggested in the show.
No, you picked up on it. He specifically asks to "see her again". He was her lover.
I doubt that. It's never even implied. Faraday "seeing her again" could just mean they've been planning the betrayal for a while.
But then again, who the heck knows since as mentioned, her betrayal makes no sense.
@@AuspexAO She didn't look too happy about that. So I highly doubt she did what she did willingly. That's what I meant.
She was almost killed by the last Leader of the crew and they treated her like garbage always talking shit about wanting Lucy instead of her to be the Netrunner. I don't blame her betraying the assholes in this crew tbh.
@@theabyss5647
WTF!?
Were we even watching the same show?
Kiwi was never implied to be that petty.
Okay so I think most can be explained
1) David’s mom not having insurance can easily be explained that instead of paying for it, all of their money went to David’s schooling. I mean a single update to a school necessary program was a shit ton of money. She had to resort to selling black market chrome and upgrades
2) Lucy’s choices could be that she never really grew up or learned common sense. She was trained to be a deep runner since birth, escaped and grew up on the streets and was found and raised by an edge runner. She did what she did with David cause she needed to keep him interested long enough for Maine to show up and do his thing and get his chrome back from the guy they thought stole it. Plus she was trying to contact David to stop him, she was probably thinking with adrenaline
3) kiwi betraying the crew for feraday was probably because of what Maine did and almost getting her killed and because she was probably promised something enough to have no choice
4) and David falling into the trap enough though he was smart. He was depressed and sad after losing 3 parental figures in his life. He found comfort in chrome like a woman with ice cream and a pot head with weed
David's mom DID have insurance. The doctor addressed that in his first conversation with David, when he said "visitation isn't part of her package".
The problem, like with basically every EMT in the real world, is that a catastrophic injury like the one she had isn't going to be sufficiently covered by the sh*t tier insurance that a private company EMT gets.
Knowing you should have better medical coverage doesn't magically give you the ability to pay for it when you already don't have enough to pay all your bills and have to do illegal sh*t to send your kid to school.
I am 1000% with you on driving with the sandevistan, though. That was nonsense.
That's studio trigger for you, all their work is over the top and doesn't make sense :p
Also,TT and the EMT services are two different services
I think David didn't made logical choices when people told him to stop was because he thought he was special. He used the Sandy 9 times at the beginning and got a nosebleed when Doc told him he would go mad if he uses it too much. When they were stealing the cyberskeleton, David still thinks he's special. Then Adam Smasher comes in; Adam was a reality check for David, one that came too late.
Really liked your other cyberpunk videos but this one was definitely off.
1. Gloria working as an EMT but not having good insurance is right at home in the cyberpunk world, night city is the most corrupt city in the U.S and it is ran by elites, the rich and corpos with corruption in every corner. Fits very well with the futuristic dystopian world they live in, the game further shows this, plus, seeing as EMT’s and Nurses in todays world have horrible insurance just further shows how real it is. Also, not that she didn’t see The value in insurance, rather it was just another sacrifice she did to put David thru school. It shows how she was backed up on rent, bills and suffered all sorts of money issues. She literally says that David is her life. Maine also states how she went ghost and they hadn’t heard of her, so they didn’t even know she was dead to be able to be there to protect or help her.
2. Lucy at the beginning was crazy and unhinged because she had no cares for anything, she didn’t really care about what would happen to her or her future, after meeting david she became vulnerable, she now had a weakness, a reason to keep going, someone to keep safe and so she changes to a more preserved person. People change all the time and people seem to forget that trait about humans. I also dont see where you say she didn’t care or be on top of David. She went around killing people going after her man to turn him into a science experiment and STILL, she was there at home
For him to talk to him and support him
When he got home. She would go check on him when he wasn’t in bed and she would take him to his ripperdoc. She literally begs him to lay off the chrome, she never even wanted him to be an edgerunner, stated by the creator of the show, Rafal Jaki himself, Lucy is his favorite and most genuine character, inspired by his own mom. He says Lucy was Davids only shot at a happy ending, his golden ticket. Had he listened to her and layed off the chrome, stopped edgerunning and lived with her on the moon, he would’ve lived. There are no happy endings in night city, you have to leave. David was the first and only person Lucy opened up too, let him in, loved him deeply. Sure, at the beginning she brought him
Back, a stranger, to her crew to get something back that belonged to them, she didn’t know David and even then she liked him and clearly states they can’t kill him. She also says everything in the moon BD she meant and after they get to know each other her ultimate loyalty is always to him, choosing him over even her own crew. She also never knew about the cyber skeleton, half of Arasaka doesn’t even know about that, she only knew that Arasaka wanted more info on him and
Had him in their sights. She couldn’t tell Maine because they would not have let her sabotage Tanaka and couldn’t tell David because he would make her stop out of fear for her safety and would’ve gone to Arasaka himself because it would further fuel his obsession that he is “special” which he definitely was. Their bond was also so crazy that Lucy brought him back from full on cyber psychosis by just talking to him, something you are absolutely not supposed to come back from. She lived and breathed for him and did everything for him. At the beginning her dream was to go to the moon but after meeting David , her dream was simply to be with him.
3. Kiwi’s betrayal was deeper than Eddies, her and Faraday had some sort of other connection and on top of that she was trying to secure her place, knowing that Davids crew didn’t have high odds of winning after discovering the enemies that were coming for them. She was looking for security, was she a snake, liar, POS and betrayer? Definitely but her decision wasn’t a plot hole, she was just a shitty person that made the wrong decision.
4. David being smart and making bad choices is actually as real as it gets lol. I don’t see how this doesn’t make sense, in real world, genius people are often lost due to bad choices, addiction, bad surroundings and grief that they aren’t able to cope with. He was addicted to two things, chroming up and living others dreams. Plenty of geniuses have been lost to addiction. He was so caught up living out his mom and Maines dreams(moms dream of him succeeding in life and Maines dream of being a top dawg edgerunner and leading his crew) that he lost out on his own dream, to be together with Lucy. Instead he leaves the love of his life heartbroken and forever alone missing the love of her life until she dies. The creator even says the ending song, let you down, is David apologizing to Lucy for letting her down and leaving her to suffer alone. Honestly the worst one was you saying he picked the wrong girl. How you can say Rebecca was better for him than the girl literally putting her life on the line and constantly putting him before herself baffles me. Especially since Rebecca is really just a hot head liability that constantly puts herself in danger and has no regard for her own life. Its shown in ep4 when Maine has to babysit her and force her down, she literally almost dies there and its why she ultimately dies at the end. She was NOT the best choice plus there wasn’t that connection. David loved her, yes, as a little sister, she couldn’t even snap him
Out of it with a fresh injection of immuno blockers and being right in front of him, plus he wasn’t even full cyber psycho, Lucy did it with no meds and he was FULL cyber psycho. He just didn’t have the connection with Becca. Was she cool and a good character? Hell yea, was she better than Lucy? Hell no
5. This is the only one I will kinda give to you but it’s debatable because this is anime lmao. These are common anime Tropes and every anime or show has some far fetched ideas and scenes like the car scene. Maine’s chrome was just too much for him, he was too chromed out and it was affecting his nerves, he couldn’t stop because he always wanted more, he thought, like all addicts do, that he was too good for cyber psychosis. As for David using the sandy on the train, if no one sees him appear and disappear then he should be good. He always appears behind cover and everyone is buried into their phones or sleeping. The sandy was Military and not Arasaka tech so they couldn’t track it, yet they still had David in their sights. Lucy was one of the best Net runners since the guy the cut off the old web. She was a master at hiding her tracks and was constantly on top of that, she even says it. Thats all, love your videos tho 🫡
I think Lucy changed because she fell in love for the first time in her life and so she decided to take care of things her self instead of potencial putting in danger the person she loves by asking him to help her.
And if she asked the crew instead of David, he would absolutely notice something was going on.
And then David getting all the upgrades, I think was his way of gating stronger so he could make more money to take Lucy to the moon, and since she wouldn't help him on his missions he needed to get stronger by himself.
This comment section is a gold mine for answers 😂 You guys know Night City well. But I agree 100% with all of these points. Especially the first and last one!
About David's mom. She's killed off screen. It would've been nice to show David have a moment with Gloria before she drew her last breaths. Gloria would tell David everything about the Edgerunners and how she was involved as a cyberware smuggler. And see how David's choices and goal change after.
Except that would have invalidated many of the themes and part of the plot. Night City is indifferent to the point of being malicious. It is cold and corporate. Gloria dying alone off screen is perfect in portraying that theme. Him knowing about Maine and the crew would have drastically changed the story to the point of it being a story not worth telling. He would have never put the sandy in if he knew where he could find a buyer willing to pay what it was worth and Maine would have known who had it or at least that somebody besides Gloria had it.
Lucy acts confident in the beginning when David is not her weakness. But when she accepted him in his life and became her weakness, how can she disclose to him the problem with Arasaka if she knows he'll approach it differently? (highlighted in ep6 when Lucy tells David to save themselves & leave Maine & Dorio)
Good to see some people actually get it
I couldn’t agree more with Lucy drastic change in character. It’s like after Rebecca was introduced all of Lucy wild tendencies just left and poured into Rebecca. I wasn’t able to put it into words but you did, so thank you for that
Sure thing!
@@bumperjumper and what you said about Rebecca was facts too, it seemed like they were pushing the possibility of her and David getting together but stuck him with Lucy because of her classic trope of being the alluring, aloof mystery girl.
As for Lucy not telling David while it makes logical sense people don't see logically. I think she could see how self destructive he was and worried that informing him that he was right, he is in fact special would just cause him to go over the edge that much faster. It also explains her slowly becoming less wild. She suddenly was very tired trying to bury the David thing until Arasaka determined the data Tanaka held was truly lost and moved on. They were just more invested in the project than she realized so they weren't relenting and she had to always be watching her back again.
I have a feeling this would have been 15 episodes if it wasn't for cd project red
what do you mean? You know the CDPR were the ones that came up with the story & the budgets right??
@@crozraven Yes but they wanted it to be short. Look up how production started for the anime, the script that trigger got was written as a movie but they tweaked it to 10 ep. If only cd project red would have said this felt too short then maybe we would have gotten a longer show.
1) Gloria didn’t have health insurance depite her being an emt because cyber punk’s universe is an anarcho-capitalist one
Also, it’s possible she didn’t buy any insurance because she was trying to save money (see david has about €$20k in his account after her death) or she belived she had some (her employer lying about supplying insurance)
2) Lucy’s personality change is her dropping the mask. She found someone she trusts fairy deeply (see any of their apartment scenes)
3) Kiwi’s betrayal might be a mix of two things
a) David taking riskier jobs than Maine. That and lucy leaving the team making her the only net runner must’ve put her under tremendous pressure to not only do more, in a shorter period of time, but to also not fuck up, at all
b) Faraday was the same person supplying the jobs before. It’s possible Kiwi had a grudge because of point a. These two combined (at least partially) explain the betrayal
4) Book smarts doesn’t translate exactly to good coping mechanisms
You have to keep in mind not only did david lose a good chunk of the people close to him, but his job *is* putting him of the wrong end of guns constantly
Combine those, and you have stress. Not only do people cope in different ways, but people in great deals of stress aren’t always level-headed
I’d argue that, once he took the lead role of the crew, that’s when it started going downhill
4) The car gaining altitude is probably just a riff on cyberpunk 2077’s buggy everything at launch
afterall, in jame’s braindance, cops do appear out of nowhere behind him
and the nobody noticing david disappearing on the train might just be crowed public transit in a bad neighborhood
personally, i’m more surprised people didn’t notice their chips being ejected like david did
2:09 adam sandler truly is the most dangerous villain in all of night city
LMAOOOOO as an EMT you have nooooo idea how many of us don’t have insurance
Idk all the “plot holes” you mentioned make sense. You think too much. The moreso character flaws more than anything. With David it’s as if you never been a young impressionable man hopped up on grief, testosterone, the lack of a father , and some toxic loving from a mysterious girl with a sketchy past.
Honestly, agreed with every one of your points and thought the same thing.
Also using the sandy to pick up any human and move them, like Rebecca, would snap their necks without proper support, but they skipped that detail entirely. Coulda totally made David support Rebeccas head or something for a little realism detail.
Teleporting sandy train man, jumping car, also great points I also got irked by.
I think that generally.
1: David's mum was gambling it all to put David in a obviously elite school. I mean Arasaka is the night cities biggest corp. It's fairly obvious that that school would be way, way, way beyond what Gloria would have been able to afford. Even with the illegal trading and such.
2: on Lucy.....I generally feel that at first she was putting on an act to get David interested in her.... A mission. I'ld say that Lucy is almost as inexperienced as David in an actual romantic relationship....and in her case she doesn't want to get confrontational with the one she cares about.....choosing to keep her feelings tucked in.
3: On Kiwi.....to an extent....I think she was fustrated and wanted an out. She worked under Maine who died, to her Lucy went and left the crew to do her own thing and their current leader David.....is starting to go a lil chrome crazy. Perhaps she felt that she needed to get our before something happens.
4: David.....honestly I knew a guy kinda similar to David. He was smart, brilliant but he also was a firecracker. He often couldn't just chill and think things through, not listening to anyone and choosing instead to engage in impulsive behaviors. In my friend's case he chilled out over time as he grew older, even getting married with kids. David is similar, just in a fucked up situation that pushed him to his darker, more impulsive tendencies.
I mean, he could have simply sold the implant, gotten a low paying job, went to a cheaper school and have a semi tolerable life.....but David fell to his flaws from the very start.
These are some great things to bring up and warrants discussion. I didn't see a lot of these as actual plot holes personally. But I'll only address a few since it's too long.
First off, you kinda have to look at that con in ep2 from their perspective. She thought this random kid stole their expensive cyberware and informed Maine and the crew. It wasn't out of ill intent towards David specifically. She was part of Maine's crew for quite some time and he just met David that day. Sure, you see it as a bad thing but that's because you're watching it through the main character's lens. For Lucy, she merely helped her crew find their missing Sandy. Just didn't expect to like David as much as she did. She didn't even lie about the things they talked about. The fun they had was genuine.
Second, I love Rebecca (arguably best girl), but I don't think she would have been the better choice for David. I think if things didn't work out the way they did with David and Lucy, David will most likely be an Arasaka guinea pig already halfway through the show's timeline. The only reason he lasted that long was because Lucy erased his files and kept the runners off his back. Rebecca unfortunately cannot hold off high-level runners. Even Kiwi can literally put her out of commission in an instant. And by the end, David would have gone out as just another soul taken by Arasaka with no glory whatsoever and none of his friends there.
The show wouldn't be the same without Rebecca, but I would have found it far less interesting if Lucy and David didn't happen. Lucy gives David breaks from the clusterf*ck that is Night City and gives an outsider's perspective as she sees it as a prison. But Rebecca is 100% absorbed in that prison and did not see past it. Which I think is one of the reasons Becca couldn't take David out of cyberpsychosis when Lucy could. His best memories with Lucy do not involve Night City, fighting, and guns. In fact, she usually takes him out of it. Like the BD to the moon or the trip into the desert outside the city.
I do think Lucy not killing Farraday when she had the chance was a stupid mistake tho.
I know a lot of people have already discussed the "insurance as an EMT" plot hole (or lack thereof) but two things I wanted to add. 1) benefits in this world are incredibly small, even in the big corporations. Like in the game, one of them boasts about offering a whopping 5 paid days off a year. A smaller thing like public EMT (what she was) probably offered little if any benefits. 2) The Trauma Team coverage is incredibly expensive, but is a good example to compare. I don't know if anything has pricing in 2077, but in the 2020 rpg, premium coverage went as high as $34k a month.
Emts in Colorado are independently contracted, like uber eats. Got a buddy who was an emt there it was an eye opener to learn the ambulance drivers aren't a part of the hospital.
I'm an EMT, a lot of private agencies have very poor/non-existent healthcare. Trauma Team is supposed to be premium insurance, makes a lot of sense that she only could get the chop shop doc.
1: David's mom has big financial issues and likely doesn't have the money for an insurance.
2: while lucy might act a bit illogical near the end, her actions outside that are consistent with the development of her character.
3: Kiwi is completely consistent in her character, working together untill its more valuable not to.
4: David was burned by the corporations and defies them at every corner. He is also always in an arms race with his enemies. He actively chooses to go down this path....
Mate, these aren't plotholes, these are things you would've preferred to go differently.
David's mom not having health insurance... Is the point? Based on what we see in this universe, she would still have to pay.. so she clearly opted to put that money into savings and David's college... Remember the beginning she barely got the money for the headset.. which David"solved" because she didn't have the Eddie's.
Lucy was playing David in the begining.. so most of the Lucy we saw in the first act was a persona to allure David into the trap she set like a spider...
The rest was her going through some shit, and getting more comfortable.. but also growing more afraid.. like she's clearly not dealing well with everything but put on a cold face.. just like David..
The kick eh.. I'll kinda give you that.. but she also probably decided a kick was a more likely blow to hit from the angle she was in, then a forward aggressive attack seeing as he saw her.. so it kinda works but it could go either way so ehh
Kiwi didn't really trust him.. she knew she was playing with fire but went into the flames anyways.... As to why she did it. Honestly it was a little out of left field so idk about that it was a little odd but clearly she warned us and her friends.. so it's not out of her character..
David's choices is like a major point of the show.. he believes he's different.. and he's clearly addicted and driven by the things people wanted from him and who he looked up too.. aka he's impressionable.. Maine was like a father.. a chosen father... So yes he followed him and thinks he can fly even higher.. his choices track and thematically track.. it shows that even though he's smart..that doesn't mean he can just beat addiction, trauma and hybris.. just like every other cyberpsycho before and after him....
Also always remember there are different smarts.. retaining knowledge and using knowledge, even tacticioning, socializing etc are all different smarts and skillets..
Also remember character flaws aren't inherently plot holes as well. Lol
Agreed.
The train and car physics I 100% agree and bugged me lol
Gun jams because he doesn't have full control.. his system is reject... Cyberpsychosis.. ok it's early onset cyberpsychosis.. between that and the more frequent injections it's the way the show was subtly telling us that he's going to lose it soon.. and he does.. he could also just be running old miltech parts which don't have reasonable replacements for the firepower they can dish out. So he puts up with the quirks till a good set comes in.. we also don't see it jam up on David from what I remember. Further driving the point that it was the former.
Sandevistan is a maybe.. we don't know how they set up tracking in cyberpunk.. or if it's easily circumvented..
Kiwi yeah.. that was a little weak I agree.. at least from what we were shown.. maybe some key pieces are missing..
EMT with no insurance happens even today sometimes, and this is night city we are talking about. You either do good bucks through shady stuff or you work for a major corpo, other than that you have no way to get enough money for an insurance
It’s implied that Gloria could have gotten insurance but wanted David to get the best education possible so sacrificed that which in the end cost her life.
#2 Lucy's choices is because everything you see in that second episode is a fake Lucy. It was all an act to get David interested in her until Maine could arrive (except for the Moon scene, that was genuine.)
about maine's gun arm, I think the ripper-doc talks about it when its in David. The arms seem to be the gorilla arm model and the wrist rocket launcher was jammed in after-market.
With Lucy and Maine’s cyber ware I think it’s more of game mechanic. With Lucky’s Monowire usually they’re just meant for burst damage til the damage drop makes it useless but in a way I can agree that it’s weird not seeing further use of her cyber ware. With Maine’s well he somehow fixed a cannon on the arm cannon implant into the gorilla arms which the two aren’t even meant to be together so I can see why it malfunctions a lot.
Love that the first plot hole is you not understanding the difference between health care and Tramua coverage in the world of cyberpunk.
Gloria not having health insurance was 100% the result of her spending most of her money for David's very expensive education. She probably knew how important good health insurance was but she couldn't afford both Arasaka academy and the health insurance so she just hoped she isn't going to need it since she was young and healthy. I think that her not having benefits is also realistic, it's a hypercapitalist dystopia where people like EMTs don't get those kinds of benefits, everyone is left to fend for themselves.
I already left a comment before, but I can't let this point slide either! David may have been smart, and it makes sense that he would see past the mistakes of the people that came before him. That doesn't change the fact that this was the message of the entire show, AND the cyberpunk 2077 game. These people feel like they have nothing, they begin their cyber-path, they find meaning and purpose, but are only remembered by how they perished. The idea is that everyone who follows this path is doomed to fail, no matter how great they are. On the other hand, going down this path is the only way to feel alive, or for any length of your life span have a purpose in night city.
I actually agree with 95% of what you said. Those are things that bugged me too but oh well. At best it's a 8.5/10 in terms of writing.
As someone who works as an EMT I’ll tell you it is not too far fetched. Though maybe not in a sense of EMTs being without insurance but ambulance companies penny pinching on insurance. Most ambulance companies in the US are privatized and generally pinch on a lot of things as they are not profitable. Also Trauma Team in this universe is it’s own company and you need a plan through them. I wouldn’t be surprised if David’s mom is covered through something else that just isn’t great coverage.
I'm inclined to think David's eventual suicide path with chrome is just his arrogance and thinking that he was special that made him blind to the idiocy he was indulging in.
2 weeks later and he’s finally reached the second stage of grief: anger
Kiwi probably saw the signs of cyber psychosis in David and also remembered of Maine’s demise, bringing down Dorio with him. Since Kiwi knew David was more powerful she likely wanted to jump ship before.
As a former EMT, I knew a bunch of other emts who didn't have health insurance because they couldn't afford to pay for it and keep paying bills. Not crazy for a dystopian society to have people still have that issue
3:23 im glad finally somebody recognizes that Becca was arguably a better fit for David. He did not deserve or appreciate her as much as he should have. She fought back to back with him. Warned him. Comforted him. Kept him sane when he was losing his mind.
Even though Lucy worked to protected David going as far as to Sacrifice Maine and Dorio she was to Aloof and cyncial. Rebecca was open and direct and would yell at you if your doing something stupid when you needed to ehar it. She wouldnt have stopped david from going psycho but it would have delayed it at least if Lucy didnt get captured or told David.i feel so bad for her she deserved to be loved.
Exactly, couldn’t agree more. Very well said
4:06 this is a fun one! By making the car turn quickly, you can turn that translational energy(across the road) into rotational energy (spinning around its center). This is from the frictional force on the cars tires causing a torque on the car because it is not directly in line with its center of mass. Once the car starts rotating, one side pushes against the road, while the other side lifts into the air. If David can somehow get the car to stop rotating along its axis (idk lol), he can make it gain a little altitude based on his original speed.
Lucy doesn't or didn't show her true self or one of her true self with anyone until she got close to David, she also has some similarities with him about proving to her self she can do something and mostly likely she ment with her life.
With his mom not having insurance there is a shard in game you can find that says only about 3% of night city are insured. It’s not far off either. Even now I know people who work as medical staff and their insurance doesn’t allow them to visit the hospital where they work.
The creator, Mike Pondsmith, once said in an interview that Cyberpunk is not about saving the world, it’s about saving yourself. That sticks in my mind with Kiwi’s betrayal and what went wrong with David. He many times tried to save others.
The sandevistan in a car and gaining altitude is funny enough a game glitch brought to anime. You smash a car up a sloped barrier it will take flight.
Kiwi's situation was that, this was a big opportunity to hit the big leagues with a bigger net profit. If you think about, in Davids crew they are making money but not enough to get out of the town or go to the moon in general otherwise David and Lucy would have been in vacation at this point. Pretty sure when Kiwi heard that Arasaka would be their partner. that would be huge. But of course as she always says, don't trust anyone.
Trauma Team Platinum service is for wealthiest people... not for ordinary EMTs... Its a health service that guarantees to get their customers out of bad situation, despite the danger etc.. only "plot hole" in Edgerunners would be that Trauma failed twice in the series.. (JK and Tanaka), which is something that just doesn't happen to them that often...
Most of these aren't plot holes but showing how people are flawed individuals.
One thing ya gotta keep in mind that this is cyberpunk which means it's a dystopian future where most people are poor and barely able to get by. So it makes sense Gloria doesn't have insurance...ya gotta be rich or have a corpo job... platinum coverage isn't cheap. Also, there are rarely happy endings and it's an anime so ya gotta suspend your disbelief at some point.
Only Corpos can afford good health insurance in the cyberpunk future. Take a look at all the cyberpunk lore and you'll see that its extremely common for the working class to live like the Martinez' regardless of the occupation. I'm sure most of the cops in night city don't have "Good" health coverage, definitely not trauma team. That's why she wanted David to have climb the ladder at Arasaka
She had insurance. It was just not very good insurance, which makes sense in this scenario.
The Dr. Caring for her, even made mention of this when informing David she died.
1) This one is actually made worse when a character (I think it was Maine) questions how she was killed when she even worked for EMT and its just brushed off.
2) I 100% agree with the Faraday part but the broodyness she developed came into being because of what she told David in ep 8. it used to be that she didn't give a damn about her life since she became an edgerunner, but ever since she found David and fell in love with him she felt as though she had something to lose. So it makes sense in the second half of the show that she's moody all of the time because now she actually cares about her life and David's life yet the two of them have aready delved deep into a dangerous path. "There's no going back from a gig involving arasaka" were Lucy's words exactly. That's also why she(sort of) betrayed the crew when she deep dove into the Arasaka suit.
3) Faraday was going to wipe out anyone who knew about the Sandalvistan David had. This included Kiwi, so maybe she thought if she cooperated she could be exempted from the wipe out. After all, even if she refused he would find someone else so there was no point in being loyal. It was a lose lose situation and she was betting on being seen as too useful to be disposed of, and was hoping to just be exiled from NC while alsp escaping the edgerunning life.
4)I have seen plenty of very smart people make stupid life choices despite having all the right outlets. Sometimes it isn't a matter of practicality and stability that drives a person to a certain decision, as a matter of fact you'd be surprised that alot of the time its emotion that can drive even smart people to do certain things. He was constantly looked down on in the Arasaka school and it did nothing but become a burden for the mother he loved by adding more bills to pay. So imagine being told you could rejoin that same school if you just Groveled some more while a man who knew your mother, respected your mother and even helped your mother make it by in the past, gives you a place in his crew. Take practicality aside, the answer to what David would choose is obvious, especially given how young he was. Him chroming up and saying hes different is more of a coping mechanism to push himself to the unreal aspirations because of what happened with Maine. his attachment made him want to inherent his dream and instead of accepting it would kill him earlier, he lied to himself so he could keep pushing forward, saying he was different.
5) the only thing I can say to MAYBE justify is when he used the Sandalvistan on the car, he was actually fighting the cars autopilot and that's why it jerked around the way it did. Everything else doesn't make sense though.
Your first point, EMTS are grossly underpaid. Depending on where you work, you also have shit health insurance. That's just the way it is. Often times, your health insurance reflects your pay. If you're more valuable to an employer, you're more insured, and you're paid more. EMTS are under appreciated and treated like shit, so there's your answer.
Also, why should the future, especially a dystopian future be any different? It definitely wouldn't be better.
Nobody noticed David because everyone is dealing with their own suffering and thinking about what's next, how to survive the next day, they were distracted by them selves or because of someone or something else. Phone, friends, zoning out; take your pick.
It has to do with physcology of self and state of being in a world that you have no control of.
Don’t know why people missed this in the show. We literally get to see the difference between the levels of insurance. They say over and over during maines scene that the client is a platinum member. They also wear entirely different clothing and have way better equipment. Gloria was not able to afford a platinum life insurance policy. We also have the scene with David in the ambulance, clearly there’s a massive difference in what they could do for a patient with flying transport vs wheels….
1) Its Cyberpunk, insurance is cracy expensive, everybody wants it, only the elites can afford it
2) Its Cyberpunk, never trust a soul and only look after yourself - so runners dont help for free and probably would have been to late anyways
3) David is Trauma-tized (hehe get it?) he doesnt have a goal and inherits the goals from his Mom and Mayne
4) Lucy is also Re-Traumatized by her near loss of David in Episode 6, which is a kind of Betrayal for her
5) It is a common trope in Cyberpunk that either a team member or the fixer f**cks you up hard, also I think that Farraday had more leverage than just Money and Runners sooner or later want an out and will grab it by any means
6) Ok yeah she could have gone for Faraday but she was captured and killed two and got out, I think that was everything you could expect of someone in that Situation
7) There are no happy endings
So I dont realy see any of the points you made as plotholes. They are necesarry for drama and believable, as they are common in the setting.
we don't know how much that premium health care costs since only the mega-rich are the clients. It could be $100s of thousands a month for the subscription for all we know. Also, isn't the reason the mother not having health insurance because of the cost of schooling, which also could be $100s of thousands a year, since it is pretty much exclusive to the rich. It is possible that the mother chose David's education over health care.
I feel that for David’s choices, he wants to protect the team, believing that he was special, even though he kind of was, he was still pushed too far. Which I feel that that’s the message of David’s story. Prodigies have limits too. David, to protect everyone around him, looking out for all of them, sacrificed his own humanity, thinking he could take it all on his own, which would of course, take Lucy to do everything on her own, not wanting to see David suffer. But in the end, David realised that in the attempt to save everyone, he lost everything. But he remembered the happy moments he had with them, and smiled all the way till the road of life ended.
It took Adam Smasher, the myth and the legend himself to smack some sense into David, and put him back in his place basically a snap back into reality. It was only then when David looked back at his life instead of looking forward, and finally smiled.
yea I often forgot that he David was very gifted and smart, throughout the show he constantly only rely on his chrome and cyber upgrades to the point when some of the characters pointed out that he was smart, I had to second guess where did they get the info from. I understand that there's only 10 ep so they couldn't fit every single theme and character traits in there, still would've been cooler if he rely on his technical knowhow and things the edgerunners wouldn't know to show how smart he is.
the thing about lucy not just offing faraday immediately is probably because she cant use her ability like that, weve seen it before where it got caught up in bits and she had to pull out her gun
personally i think the BIGGEST plothole is when they captured tanaka and he just didnt tranq him for some reason, it made 0 sense, he knows he doesnt want to be a corpo, hes expressed it multiple times, but now because conflict is fun hes hesitating?
David's mom may have known the value of insurance that doesn't mean she had the income for it. It is shown early in the series that nearly all of David's mom's income goes to his education which has put them in a financial bind.
As far as David's behavior that can be attributed to him losing the only family member he knew.
I agree that Lucy should have been more open with David but her past has put up physiological barriers to prevent her from forming relationships that could hurt her.
As for Arasaka they only valued Lucy for her skills and considered her disposable. They didn't bother to look for her because they didn't care as there where more to replace her.
I tried making sense of kiwis motive. It make sense for me if when faraday asked her to find the hacker they didn't know it was lucy. They laid a trap for the netrunner which was just another job for her, paying well, and then when they caught her kiwi found out it was lucy. At that point she figured out david would never forgive her, so she could only side with faraday going forward. So she didnt have much choice going forward and had to betray everyone and make enough money to disappear, so she kept going, but there was no way out.
We can stab in the dark all we want, it's all still the same, WE DON'T KNOW.
How come everyone else gets a believable motive but Kiwi doesn't??
I know she betrayed them, but out of all female characters, kiwi is still my favorite
I see people saying it already, but most of this can be explained with game logic or game lore yeah. Even the small stuff, like maybe lucy only had enough monowire charge to kill those two guards. Or davids mom not having insurance cause she was probably too broke and i doubt its provided
Actually most of these has answers like.
In Cyberpunk being an EMT doesnt mean youre insured. Platinum care is only affordable to corpos. She didnt have allies with Maines crew she just sold on the side to them.
David having good grades doesnt mean he will make good life decisions. Chrome is addictive. His bad decisions came from trauma.
David clearly had an addiction to chrome, it’s not as simple as David noticing other people going crazy over chrome. Like smoking most people see other people dying of cancer but it doesn’t stop others from smoking
I work at a major Hospital in Southern California, no Medical offered. Guess it's common
Gloria not having medical coverage is supposed to represent how unfair it is. Even EMTs can’t afford it.
Here's one I have. How did his mom so easily smuggle out the Sangdevista augment? If it went missing, the corporate would immediately start tracking it down. And when it suddenly walked right into view in school, their decision was to what, wait and see what happens?
David mom spent all her money putting David thru Arasaka. Remember when Kiwi revealed David was an Arasaka student Main said "that's why Gloria was always strapped for eddies" These hints Arasaka schools are extremely exspensive. Davids mother not having insurrance is easily explainable but the other plots holes there are no answers.
Gloria not having Medical Benefits shows that she was willing to make extra money to push David in Arasaka Academy.
David and Lucy were both traumatized by the deaths of Dorio and Maine, who was held deeply to them, and experiencing something like that could alter their personalities two-fold.
Maine while going under the pre-conditions of Cyberpsycosis smacked the hell out of Kiwi, so she decided to betray the gang, despite the deaths of Maine and Dorio.
David not picking Rebecca is a big mistake on his behalf, however he chose Lucy because he feels like he owes her his life.
Hey man all great shows has good plot holes my favorite small plot hole is when David wanted to talk to David Lucy they went on top of the building it was cloudy the entire conversation but the next scene the rocket is launching the sky’s a clear lol
Counter argument for Gloria's death.
The information is mostly in game so anime only wouldn't cover it.
The platinum insurance is mostly used by the rich and those high in the Corpo ladder.
If I remember right it's like 10,000 Eddie's a month which doesn't even cover everything. And for Gloria case being an EMT, she's is be considered to be scrappers from what Trauma team said during the accident. So considering how Trauma team works and from what we seen. I believe in the world of cyberpunk in NC she would probably be 1 tier higher from basic insurance package.
Because that's how much the city believes she's worth. And getting help from Maine, I belive he already did by being a potential buyer and have them resold in the black market. Since we already seen that potentially being the case when the 1 EMT woman pulled a gun on David and Lucy in the truck for his cyberware which leads up to one of the most popular scenes in the show.
According to Cyberpunk red the cheapest Trauma Team insurance is the Silver package at 500 ED a month which is the price of a Sandevistan Cyberware which is a pricey military grade Cyberware. Also according to the rule book a Medtech earns about 100 to 200 ED a week at best for regular Medtech (rank 1 to 4 in the RPG) which she would probably be and this would be around 500 to 1000 ED a month even if the numbers are just for the pen and paper game it should give us an idea of how expensive Health insurance is in this world and how un-affordable it would be for her with all the other cost of life she would have to pay in addition to sending David to a Corpo school.
You'd be shocked at the number of people working in a medically related field with inadequate insurance, especially EMTs.
Lucy could not tell David about Arasaka's plans for him because she knew David would face the problem and endanger himself instead of hiding from it as she would like him to. Thus she decided to hide David from the Arasaka herself (this contrast highlights David's tendency to run into the problem and Lucy's tendency to run away, as she did when she escaped)
The car scene:
dude. It’s a very expensive cybercar. It’s probably just a feature
Gloria was dirt poor, the Martinez family had a hard time paying for their clothes to be fully washed. And kiwi herself said to not trust anyone in this city. The Lucy plot holes make sense though.
I could refute/half refute 4/5 of the points you brought up But Yes, Becca is Best Girl.