*****Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me, for I will not hear thee**** (Jeremiah 7:16)
I wholeheartedly believe if we actually followed through and did this, we would be saving millions of believers from a ruined life. The only reason we don’t do it is unbelief and selfishness.
If I was to put my rebellious teenager out of the house, I would hate to think what she would be exposed to. So much perverse wickedness that I would never forgive myself if she was caught up in any of it. I will show her as much love, encouragement, and with prayer and fasting wait for Yahweh to work in her stubborn heart. To think what I was like as a teenager and yet Yahweh in His goodness and mercy made Himself known to me and am so thankful that He did and could never go back to all that now I know the love of Yahshua in my life. I wait for Yahweh to do the same for my daughter.🙏🔥🙏
My family thought this was a smart idea to do when I was exploring non-Christian faiths. When I converted to Christianity I did not return to their table (they need the discipline of isolation).
Only God knows your full situation and the right and wrong of it. I'm not saying your family was right or wrong. However if you did truly accept Jesus and were truly born again you must forgive. Maybe you have already but it does not sound like it. If it is too hard for you; then ask Jesus to help you with that and he will. You might even ask Jesus that he reveal the true heart of your parents. If Jesus shows you they deeply love you and had good intentions in spite of the outcome; it might also help you forgive. Failing to forgive hurts us as well as others. God forgave me and you; we should strive to do the same and to do so is to the will of God. If you are not yet able to do it for them or you; then do it for your new love who should be God.
@@KOH777-gp6ut Forgiveness is giving up anger. Restoring the relationship would require repentance and an apology. They wouldn't do so, and would go as far as framing that as blasphemy. Their bad behavior is considered to be sanctioned by God. Why should I be more progressive on this matter then they are? They don't want to be "unequally yoked," and neither do I.
@@Glicer Your pain and injury is valid. I thought about this last night and I think they got it wrong. In fact I interpret the teachings of Paul here as a way to keep out false teachings which was a huge problem. If you read Revelation, Jesus is telling several churches where they failing and I think 6 of the 7 had very serious problems. Problems that would lead God's children astray. So the importance of correct teachings of God is paramount. This was before the New Testament was in print so the church itself represented kind of WAS that message in the flesh.
I can tell you that in my opinion given what you have spoken I think maybe they got it wrong. Only God knows what is best in all situations. Your pain and anger is valid in my opinion. Putting restoration of the relationship aside for now, may I only speak about the forgiving part? I was betrayed by a friend and that ex friend never repented. That he didn't repent and didn't seem to care and kept lying to all about it made it impossible for me to forgive him. Now in his case; he had wicked motives for sure. In your parents case I could never know. In any event, God wanted me to forgive. He put it in my heart.
Also the Bible clearly shows that God wants us to forgive. So I was not able to forgive him. I even had the same line of thought you have. I was like; this guy isn't even sorry. Not sorry and keeps going to deepen the injury. God still wanted me to forgive him. So I prayed about it and asked God to help me do that. Well it took days or a week; I'm not sure but I did forgive him through Christ. Forgive them and free yourself. We all still stand before God and if they are wrong they will know it at some point. Let God worry about that; just please try to do this for God and yourself.
Whatever the word says do it. ANYONE who calls themselves a believer and lives in unrepentant sin, in love, separate yourself. NEVER ghost anyone. Ever!!! That is pride and cruelty. Sit first with them and read the word, be sad with them, let them know it’s not what you want, but you are choosing to obey God. Never do it without sitting down and having your Bible open and let the Bible in the words speak for itself.
If we are continuing the same sins knowingly, and not repenting or trying to change out behavior, we need to question if we truly believe in Christ. That's different than being a daily sinner due to our general condition of fallenness.
If a person loves Jesus they will try to follow him in earnest. That does not mean perfection but it does mean putting in effort and not "living in sin". Willful, repeated unrepentant sin with no improvement.
Is John macarthur saying that we should break contact with our children and never let them visit us until they repent ? Or if they're over 18 and still studying at college, but they're in the same household, we should kick them out?
If they are non believers he was pretty clear in saying NOT to break contact. If they are believers and living in sin then as a part of the church the Bible does seem to indicate they be called out and avoided. Only God knows his heart; but my take on this is to do this when a person has truly found God and the Holy Spirit but then tries to remain living in sin. Meaning that they know God is real and know better but choose to say they follow him but in fact it is clear they do not. To allow that in the church would seem to diminish the purity of the church. However a person with more wisdom than I would know where to draw that line; because I do not. For me it would be a prayer situation. Sorry I could not help more.
@@Nobodbody I don't ever see it as a kicking out of house situation. The term brother here I think means brother in Christ. I think this was in regards to the early church and that setting example was critical. They didn't have the New Testament; they would part of living it. Can you imagine how confusing it would be for non believers? Without the Bible but only the church members as example. So a false brother would be a huge problem because if seen as a Christian at the time so many would get the wrong ideas and poison the water so to speak.
@@Nobodbody In answer; no I would not kick my son outside of him being so vile that I had to literally disown him. I don't have the heart to do that to my son unless God commanded me and in that particular circumstance. This is my best guess. Speaking something and living it are very different.
@KOH777-gp6ut I agree. Especially if he's still under your roof, even if he's over 18, and to use an example, if he'd have a girlfriend of another faith, I'd never allow for that person to come by.
Hmm, So a child that confesses to be a christian thats living in sin, put them out! But those who do not profess to be christians bring them in? Should we not know and discern? Those who dont confess to be a christian, We ask our children, " Are you a christian?" This is an awkward and strange question to ask your children seeing we should know the states of our flocks. We lie, as the clergy lies and most of these raised in a christian home know christianese. It's far more difficult then this especially if they were raised in a christian home and went to christen school, our children can fool us sometimes our children are not really where they claim to be. All men are liars and profess to have the answer and we believe our children and families are the roll models, but no one but God knows the hearts and will work all this out. We never know the secret lives of others, God does. .. Eli and Samuel had this issue.
There is no place in anyone's life that doesn't have sin, even habitual sin. Think in terms of watching TV, being rude to others, eating unhealthy, being fat, etc. Any life at anytime will have what this man defines as sin. Things like being fat are just not hot points for society, but it seems like honoring the temple of the Holy Spirit would be a real priority. My point is there is never a real spot in life where sin is gone, just spots we ignore. One might say I'm delving into trivial matters, but these simple things effect hot topics like divorce in the church (just as sinful and worldly as, well, the rest of the world). In this country we have merely biggie sized religion. The only reason this religion is surviving is that it's easily picked up and put down by christians at a moments notice when it might really cost them something. It's shallow and dishonest.
“A man that is a HERETIC; After the First 'and' Second Admonition,,, ‘REJECT’ !!! ‘K-N-O-W-I-N-G’; That he that is such is ‘WARPED’, and SINS, Being ‘Condemned of himself’.” ~ Apostle Paul ~ (Titus 3:10-11) ~~~ What does Christianity have in common with baseball ??? ~~~ (Makes it easy to Remember) ~~~ 3 Strikes (?),,, and You're OUT, Pilgrim !!! ~~~ :o
Sinner has no Right to Condemn, Judge, Think Evil and Hell to Sinners.mind your own sin and repent and ask forgiveness and let the LORD GODFATHER in Christ be the ONE to put Things Right in your life in Christ.and Think Positively Good to Everyone with Prayers so that you can not Think Evil and Hell to People around you to your Neighbor and to Each other.for He Who Thinks Evil and Hell to His Neighbor can not Love His Neighbor and Christian Believers Who Thinks Evil and Hell to each other can not Love One Another.Sins against the Commandments of the LORD GODFATHER in Christ Saying'Love Thy neighbor as Thyself and Love One Another.'
@SesameShorts the LORD GODFATHER in Christ knows what is GOOD to ALL Sinners.Just FOCUS to the LORD GODFATHER in Christ and HIS BELOVED GOOD GODSON JESUS CHRIST and HIS Positive Good Spirits in Christ for It Keeps on even Until in Eternal Reality in HEAVEN.
I dont agree. If you push them away, they will stay away and have resendment. You can still council them with your / the bible view point with out freezing them out.
@@KOH777-gp6ut no, let Christ the Lord who is Spirit live with-in you, as flesh is of no use, and letter kills, whatever command you claim to follow and know.
*****Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me, for I will not hear thee**** (Jeremiah 7:16)
I wholeheartedly believe if we actually followed through and did this, we would be saving millions of believers from a ruined life. The only reason we don’t do it is unbelief and selfishness.
If I was to put my rebellious teenager out of the house, I would hate to think what she would be exposed to. So much perverse wickedness that I would never forgive myself if she was caught up in any of it. I will show her as much love, encouragement, and with prayer and fasting wait for Yahweh to work in her stubborn heart. To think what I was like as a teenager and yet Yahweh in His goodness and mercy made Himself known to me and am so thankful that He did and could never go back to all that now I know the love of Yahshua in my life. I wait for Yahweh to do the same for my daughter.🙏🔥🙏
My family thought this was a smart idea to do when I was exploring non-Christian faiths. When I converted to Christianity I did not return to their table (they need the discipline of isolation).
Only God knows your full situation and the right and wrong of it. I'm not saying your family was right or wrong. However if you did truly accept Jesus and were truly born again you must forgive. Maybe you have already but it does not sound like it. If it is too hard for you; then ask Jesus to help you with that and he will. You might even ask Jesus that he reveal the true heart of your parents. If Jesus shows you they deeply love you and had good intentions in spite of the outcome; it might also help you forgive. Failing to forgive hurts us as well as others. God forgave me and you; we should strive to do the same and to do so is to the will of God. If you are not yet able to do it for them or you; then do it for your new love who should be God.
@@KOH777-gp6ut Forgiveness is giving up anger. Restoring the relationship would require repentance and an apology. They wouldn't do so, and would go as far as framing that as blasphemy. Their bad behavior is considered to be sanctioned by God.
Why should I be more progressive on this matter then they are? They don't want to be "unequally yoked," and neither do I.
@@Glicer Your pain and injury is valid. I thought about this last night and I think they got it wrong. In fact I interpret the teachings of Paul here as a way to keep out false teachings which was a huge problem. If you read Revelation, Jesus is telling several churches where they failing and I think 6 of the 7 had very serious problems. Problems that would lead God's children astray. So the importance of correct teachings of God is paramount. This was before the New Testament was in print so the church itself represented kind of WAS that message in the flesh.
I can tell you that in my opinion given what you have spoken I think maybe they got it wrong. Only God knows what is best in all situations. Your pain and anger is valid in my opinion. Putting restoration of the relationship aside for now, may I only speak about the forgiving part? I was betrayed by a friend and that ex friend never repented. That he didn't repent and didn't seem to care and kept lying to all about it made it impossible for me to forgive him. Now in his case; he had wicked motives for sure. In your parents case I could never know. In any event, God wanted me to forgive. He put it in my heart.
Also the Bible clearly shows that God wants us to forgive. So I was not able to forgive him. I even had the same line of thought you have. I was like; this guy isn't even sorry. Not sorry and keeps going to deepen the injury. God still wanted me to forgive him. So I prayed about it and asked God to help me do that. Well it took days or a week; I'm not sure but I did forgive him through Christ. Forgive them and free yourself. We all still stand before God and if they are wrong they will know it at some point. Let God worry about that; just please try to do this for God and yourself.
This is spot on
Sometimes the parents are wayward & unrepentant. Has anyone in the body of Christ addressed this?!
Whatever the word says do it. ANYONE who calls themselves a believer and lives in unrepentant sin, in love, separate yourself. NEVER ghost anyone. Ever!!! That is pride and cruelty. Sit first with them and read the word, be sad with them, let them know it’s not what you want, but you are choosing to obey God. Never do it without sitting down and having your Bible open and let the Bible in the words speak for itself.
We’re all still in sin and sin daily until we are with are with Christ. Those that say that they are not are liars.
If we are continuing the same sins knowingly, and not repenting or trying to change out behavior, we need to question if we truly believe in Christ. That's different than being a daily sinner due to our general condition of fallenness.
Won't be perfected until the
Resurrection!
If a person loves Jesus they will try to follow him in earnest. That does not mean perfection but it does mean putting in effort and not "living in sin". Willful, repeated unrepentant sin with no improvement.
@@KOH777-gp6ut yes and there should be a sense of conviction from the Holy Spirit.
@@nyshoefly That is exactly right. No conviction and that would be a very scary place to be.
God decreed it to happen. Why even discuss it?
Because God uses means. Read the Canons of Dort. It explains it far better than I could.
Hey, little Johnny tell us about your boy who bilked people out of millions. Such a fine example.
did john cause that? or did his son make that choice?
Is John macarthur saying that we should break contact with our children and never let them visit us until they repent ? Or if they're over 18 and still studying at college, but they're in the same household, we should kick them out?
If they are non believers he was pretty clear in saying NOT to break contact. If they are believers and living in sin then as a part of the church the Bible does seem to indicate they be called out and avoided. Only God knows his heart; but my take on this is to do this when a person has truly found God and the Holy Spirit but then tries to remain living in sin. Meaning that they know God is real and know better but choose to say they follow him but in fact it is clear they do not. To allow that in the church would seem to diminish the purity of the church. However a person with more wisdom than I would know where to draw that line; because I do not. For me it would be a prayer situation. Sorry I could not help more.
@KOH777-gp6ut so if your own son is part of the church you kick him out of the house ?
@@Nobodbody I don't ever see it as a kicking out of house situation. The term brother here I think means brother in Christ. I think this was in regards to the early church and that setting example was critical. They didn't have the New Testament; they would part of living it. Can you imagine how confusing it would be for non believers? Without the Bible but only the church members as example. So a false brother would be a huge problem because if seen as a Christian at the time so many would get the wrong ideas and poison the water so to speak.
@@Nobodbody In answer; no I would not kick my son outside of him being so vile that I had to literally disown him. I don't have the heart to do that to my son unless God commanded me and in that particular circumstance. This is my best guess. Speaking something and living it are very different.
@KOH777-gp6ut I agree. Especially if he's still under your roof, even if he's over 18, and to use an example, if he'd have a girlfriend of another faith, I'd never allow for that person to come by.
Hmm, So a child that confesses to be a christian thats living in sin, put them out! But those who do not profess to be christians bring them in? Should we not know and discern? Those who dont confess to be a christian, We ask our children, " Are you a christian?" This is an awkward and strange question to ask your children seeing we should know the states of our flocks. We lie, as the clergy lies and most of these raised in a christian home know christianese. It's far more difficult then this especially if they were raised in a christian home and went to christen school, our children can fool us sometimes our children are not really where they claim to be. All men are liars and profess to have the answer and we believe our children and families are the roll models, but no one but God knows the hearts and will work all this out. We never know the secret lives of others, God does. .. Eli and Samuel had this issue.
There is no place in anyone's life that doesn't have sin, even habitual sin. Think in terms of watching TV, being rude to others, eating unhealthy, being fat, etc. Any life at anytime will have what this man defines as sin. Things like being fat are just not hot points for society, but it seems like honoring the temple of the Holy Spirit would be a real priority. My point is there is never a real spot in life where sin is gone, just spots we ignore. One might say I'm delving into trivial matters, but these simple things effect hot topics like divorce in the church (just as sinful and worldly as, well, the rest of the world). In this country we have merely biggie sized religion. The only reason this religion is surviving is that it's easily picked up and put down by christians at a moments notice when it might really cost them something. It's shallow and dishonest.
“A man that is a HERETIC;
After the First 'and' Second Admonition,,, ‘REJECT’ !!!
‘K-N-O-W-I-N-G’;
That he that is such is ‘WARPED’, and SINS,
Being ‘Condemned of himself’.”
~ Apostle Paul ~
(Titus 3:10-11)
~~~
What does Christianity have in common with baseball ???
~~~
(Makes it easy to Remember)
~~~
3 Strikes (?),,, and You're OUT, Pilgrim !!!
~~~
:o
Sinner has no Right to Condemn, Judge, Think Evil and Hell to Sinners.mind your own sin and repent and ask forgiveness and let the LORD GODFATHER in Christ be the ONE to put Things Right in your life in Christ.and Think Positively Good to Everyone with Prayers so that you can not Think Evil and Hell to People around you to your Neighbor and to Each other.for He Who Thinks Evil and Hell to His Neighbor can not Love His Neighbor and Christian Believers Who Thinks Evil and Hell to each other can not Love One Another.Sins against the Commandments of the LORD GODFATHER in Christ Saying'Love Thy neighbor as Thyself and Love One Another.'
@SesameShorts the LORD GODFATHER in Christ knows what is GOOD to ALL Sinners.Just FOCUS to the LORD GODFATHER in Christ and HIS BELOVED GOOD GODSON JESUS CHRIST and HIS Positive Good Spirits in Christ for It Keeps on even Until in Eternal Reality in HEAVEN.
I dont agree. If you push them away, they will stay away and have resendment. You can still council them with your / the bible view point with out freezing them out.
I think he means, you’ve already had these boundaries set but they disobeyed. I don’t think they mean, isolate upon first mistake immediately 🤔
if "unrepentant" means not following law commands, then you have not repented from your own works either. all the same.
It means not feeling bad and not trying to do better. Jesus does not only call us to believe but to follow him.
@@KOH777-gp6ut why are you still talking about your own works, like you are boasting through law based works
@@KOH777-gp6ut no, let Christ the Lord who is Spirit live with-in you, as flesh is of no use, and letter kills, whatever command you claim to follow and know.
@@KOH777-gp6ut why did you hit me, with your law commands, in pride, dont get judged bro, judging is not faith
@@KOH777-gp6ut if you are law to yourself, you follow yourself, ie no law.
You would turn away your adult child and his girlfriend for Thanksgiving? How narrow, how intolerant, how evil.
If predestination is real and true then all these numerous discussions are just a show to confuse people.
It is, we just don't know who is or is not predestined for what. So our responsibility is real as well.