Again, Did Lilith Clawthorne Get Off Too Easily? (The Owl House Video Essay)
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
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Personally I REALLY wished Luz and Eda would’ve discussed the whole attempted to Kill Luz thing back in Agony of a Witch” thing with Lillith, though Disney might’ve thought that was too dark, along with Lillith and Amity FINALLY having a scene together where they discuss how Lillith made Amity unknowingly cheat back at the coven convention in S1, Amity telling Lillith off about the incident while Lillith admits that Amity has the right to be furious at her for her previous actions against her girlfriend and herself, offers her genuine heartfelt apology and like Amity did with her father, they’ll start over slowly.
This, exactly this. Allow me to use Fairy Tail as an example. Gajeel was definitely an arrogant pissant who took pleasure in hurting anyone and I MEAN anyone. Gajeel was given an opportunity to start over, understanding that he would NEVER be forgiven for his past actions during his time in Phantom Lord
Yeah I like to think we would've gotten some of that stuff if not for the great shorting.
@@adrianarias-hernandez7472 I remember really liking Gajeel after he became a better person and liking his relationship with Levy. Because he went out of his way to make it up to her...if I remember correctly?
Exactly 💯
@@joyc.e.7511 Yep!
Yeah, the fact that we never got a follow-up scene between Lilith and Amity feels like a real missed opportunity.
Y’know, the owl house has been going strong since January of 2020.
@@goddessbettyd5614 I'm not saying it's a bad show or anything. I just really wish we had a scene to follow up on those 2. Especially after Lilly left the emporers coven.
i would have been fine if amity saw her then immediately went blank face and ignored her. shes a teenager and i use to do the same shit as amity to people i just didnt like/had no interest in talking to all the time. i still do it sometimes.
Yeah, I feel like this was a huge missed opportunity. They kinda set them up as a Luz/Eda foil and then just kinda...forgot about it. Amity and Lilith never even interacted afterwards, wasn't she supposed to be her mentor? At least show Amity avoiding her or feeling awkward around her. It sometimes feels like the first half of season 1 was written separately to the rest of the show. Especially the first 6 episode- and I highly doubt the show was produced as the episodes came out, so I really don't know why they wrote it like that.
Missed opportunity for Lilith to be a better mother figure for Amity then Odalia.
Honestly no, but doesn't mean she at least still trying to better herself form her previous mistakes. Pray the 2nd (or 3rd) special; she'll be okay.
Agreed
I still think Lilith got off too easily, but maybe I have more of a problem with how easily Luz seemed to forgive her. I'd personally still be kind of hostile if someone tried to kill me and was the reason my 2nd mother almost got petrified. Even if she was being manipulated, I'd like to see more remorse.
Forgiveness doesn’t mean that Lilith deserves this, it’s for Luz and Eda because they needed this to move on
Technically speaking, Lilith didn't do this out of malice nor intended o go through with it. She endangered Luz, yes, but only just so Eda could finally surrender, but once Lilith achieved her goal she let the human go and didn't kill her.
Eda, in fact, wanted to straight-up kill Lilith after what she did but King stopped her because Lilith exactly reached out to Luz, offered help, and didn't ask for forgiveness, continuously trying to make up for it.
Also at this point, everyone in the show endangered and almost killed Luz at least one time. Why should Lilith be treated differently here?
I mean I agree we should have had one episode in which everyone is still being cold towards Lilith sure, but at this point, there's no point in holding grudges, because what for?
I think a part of it might have also been the series getting cut short by Disney
@@liam6170 no
I enjoy Lilith as a character, but I’d be lying if I said I thought her redemption was good. Aside from a few snarky remarks from Eda and King, it’s never really acknowledge that Lilith almost killed Luz and she cursed Eda, which caused Eda many problems and hardships in her life, such as her breakup with Raine and running away from home. With that said, Lilith’s remorse feels way more believable than Catra’s that’s for sure, and Lilith actually became a better sister and person, also unlike Catra
So if I had to choose between Lilith’s redemption and Catra’s, I’d 100% pick Lilith’s over Catra’s any day
(CHINEDO OKAFO DNI and stop getting mad at Lilith fans who aren’t doing anything wrong)
Oh Catra's "redemption" was horrible. Doing better than her should be a bare minimum. XD
She even tries to improve and redeem herself even after already being forgiven.
Forgiveness wasn't enough, but redemption and self-improvement.
This changes nothing. She deserves nothing beyond death and eternal suffering. She ruined so many people's lives. She needs to atone and make up for it, with her own worthless, pathetic life.
(Also, you misspelled my name and I don't like how you put me out there. I am right and you do not know that.)
@@darkflame728 Regardless of Catra's redemption, Lilith still hurt people and was acknowledged enough for her actions, nor did she atone enough for them.
Did she get off easy? yes.
However, I still respect the fact that she still tries to redeem and better herself more even after already being forgiven by Luz and Eda.
She could've just accepted the fact that she was let off easily and exploited that, but she isn't Belos.
Forgiveness wasn't enough, but hard earned redemption and improvement of herself.
She's one of my favorite characters in season 2 for this reason.
Even if you don't like her, you gotta respect her
I don't respect traitors and irredeemable creatures.
I wish season 1 had ended with red punching lilith in the gut and saying "that's what you get for cursing me for all these years when you could have been helping me"
And lilith just falls to the ground saying "I deserve this"
Red? You mean Eda?
@@superstarultra28 yes, my phone autocorrected but to be fair eda was a redhead
@@troperhghar9898 to be fair, a punch seems way to much considering Lillith was still a kid when she did this, being a bit rude or rude sure but punching seems a bit too much
@@justachaoticperson1906well not just that but also because of how her cursing eda put eda through a lot of hardships like her scratching her dads eye out and her relationship with raine falling apart and her becoming an outcast not to mention how horribly Lilith treated eda and how she hunted her down and tried to arrest her and let’s not forget how she almost tried to kill luz so yeah Lilith definitely deserved a punch or two.
*Shrugs* Hooty calls her Lulu, at least Lilypad comes closer to her real name and on top of that, it's just a cute nickname.
Whether or not u agree Lilith got off easy, it’s impressive the show got a good chunk of the audience to enjoy Lilith and look passed her arguably jarring leap from antagonist to ally. I got over how dramatic Lilith changed sides because the new side of her we saw in season 2 was interesting. But yeah I can see how Lilith may not have gotten proper punishment for cursing eda
The Lilypad thing is fine, people complaining about it are nitpickers that would make the Critical Drinker look sane, besides Eda calls her Lilypad, you saying it could be seen as a reference back to her.
Critical Drinker is good though
@@jeremyusreevu237 no…
I don't think so, especially since the more we learned about her life in the coven and before she didn't exactly live it up after cursing Eda. She watched her family fall apart, her mother continued to neglect her, and she ended up truly losing Eda who we now know was the only friend she had. And in return she got to spend 30 years dealing with Flora Desplora's condescension, Kikimora's whole persona, all the other joys about that coven we learned from Hunter, and of course Belos. I think it's clear that while Lilith got some of the prestige she craved from the emperor's coven, it seems like overall it never gave her what she truly wanted, another reason why she was so desperate to get Eda to join her.
Also as a final point, I do still think it's possible that the Collector and Belos may have played some role in Eda's curse, so Lilith's story might have had a touch more manipulation than we know.
STOP FINDING EXCUSES FOR THAT UGLY WITCH AND ACCEPT THAT SHE DESERVES DEATH AND ETERNAL SUFFERING.
I think eda forgave her so fast was because siblings and lilith was only kinda hunter eda as some of it was sibling fighting. The reason luz forgave her so fast is because she knew she was manipulated by belos and luz also knew lily pad didn't really want hurt her, she was just being manipulated.
Idk, how was Luz supposed to know Lilith wasn't actually going to hurt her at the time?
No, what people miss is that her actions up to Agony of a Witch had been for Eda's sake regardless. She wasn't "redeemed", she was just finally brought to the right side
Lilly pad is a cute nickname for her
A cute nickname for her is soon-to-be dead witch.
Short answer, yes. She caused her sister a tremendous amount of hardship, and left her in a extremely vulnerable state to something she had very little against protecting herself from, and even more so treating. And especially trying to murder Luz
Exactly. I am so glad someone has a brain around here. That ugly, horrid witch needs to suffer for what she did.
That does actually confuse the shit out of me, Lilith still has her emperor's coven sigil right?? They can't just remove those. So no matter what she (and her part of the curse) are being absorbed by the draining spell
HOPEFULLY THAT MEANS THAT SHE DIES
It's probably not enough if they're not in the middle, among the coven leaders. Hence why Eda had to disguise herself as Raine, why the plan failed when Eda was taken away. And Lilith did offer to do it in her place.
Also the coven heads have the sigil for their respective covens
@@CrashCubeZeroOne that makes sense, the concentration of it just not being enough. I figured they might be right that it isn't enough to corrupt the spell *very much* since they weren't sure about how long she'd had the curse and all, I just wondered if it truly had *no effect*
@@chineduokafo4856 stay mad
even thought I'd didn't really mind the character of Lilith from the first season But she's got a lot of character development in Season 2A and gotten better and managed to help Luz with Philp despite the fact that it turned out to be Belos the entire time
I think it was too easy, but that was more indicitive of the show being rushed. It still works and is more reasonable than some other redemption arcs in other shows. She's still very well written as a character driven by guilt and regret, who is genuinely trying to be better. My friends and I also 100% believe that she is heavily coded as on the Autism spectrum, and I think that adds more to her character and conflict.
I do think it's upsetting that Lilith go off very easy, but we can't entirely blame it on the creators. They can only do so much to make the show enjoyable with such limited amount of episodes because Disney doesn't find it interesting. I bet that they would've loved making more episodes about Lilith, it's just Disney doesn't want them doing that apparently. I do wish more was added, but I'm taking with what I'm getting.
Kitty Monk don’t feel bad, I myself have autism and adhd as such sometimes my voice comes as a stutter. I try my hardest to speak eloquently, but a lot my brain and mouth work at a different speed. Even when I do talk right sometimes it’s too loud, but it’s only because I m afraid no one is listening.
Them making plans at the knee then hopping through detentions Percival Derollo appears and says those are all terrible plans and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Sometimes Disney characters can get off a little too easily
unless your Steven Universe there characters get off way too easy
@@moxxiedemongamer3019 yeah, genocider gems on the loose that had killed many Quartz when she was just born (or exist)
CARTOON characters get off too easily. Starlight, Catra, The Diamonds, Sasha, just to name a few.
@@superstarultra28 I kinda understands the diamond gretung off easily, i mean They're a royale being that are god-like, they couldnt just jail them otherwise there wont be anyone doing their daily duty.
I personally think it wasn’t about her getting off too easy but she was genuinely sorry and I think that’s really what matters because she made a rash mistake when she was a little kid and put on a façade over the years to try to make things better even if it wasn’t the right way to do things and she should’ve been straight up but sharing the curse made me forgive her personally and everything she did there on afterwards as well
@jrax1713 I think if their was one thing Lilith got off to easily with it was nearly killing luz cause I thought if anything that would be what Eda would be mad at an something that could have been followed up
Just me personally, but I think Lilith and Eda splitting the curse was enough for me. When Eda forfeited from the duel you could see Lilith realize her mistake. She had to deal with that secret and guilt and once she joined the coven Belos promised her he’d heal Eda and even though she was being naive, she was desperate and even went as far as to split the curse with her. Something else, Belos made it very clear wild witches were bad. Eda and Lilith hadn’t talked in years and Eda was on a wanted poster and after obviously being kept in the dark by Belos, Lilith thinks what she’s doing was actually helping Eda. She never showed any remorse but neither did Amity when she was bullying Willow but those are both very different situations but they were both being manipulated in some way.
Fun fact: Mummies were once used in Crayola's crayons! (the colour was unsurprisingly called Mummy Brown)
They were also used for paint.
@@despinasgarden.4100 True, also medicinally!
This video threw me off guard. I thought you were mentioning Miraculous Ladybug when you said "Miraculous" lol. Great white noise for arting :D Thank you for the video
Belos knew Lily was the witch who broke his nose years ago? So it wasn't necessary for Lily to bewitch her sister because she had to be part of the coven anyway for the emperor's plan to be completed?
15:20 that's fair enough, because in towns everyone greet. It's like a tradition and sign of politeness. So, that's okay.
22:28 in some ways the palismins are like Poke'mon in some ways
17:13 insert Obvious South Park joke here it's the Crab People
I think why Belos, let her keep her Palisman, is because he needed her to close the time loop with Luz, and she might need it for that trip
Although we didn't see evidence of it onscreen, I always assumed Belos let her keep her palisman because he saw it in the past and needed things to play out as they did. I may be giving him too much credit, but I suspect that he did a lot of work behind the scenes leading up to the Elsewhere and Elsewhen, and hope we get to see a glimpse of the extent some day.
You kind of have to blame Disney on the rushing. But I feel that it honestly did not come easily. She has to take the elixir as well; she alienated herself from her sister; and it all was for naught. I feel she has done enough atoning.
I loved that video, I respect your opinions but I'm going to politely disagree with what you mentioned about "Them's the breaks kid" I feel like there was more that it does for the overall story other than revealing that Raine was never brainwashed. The episode does stuff such as...
-Raine hears about the draining spell for the first time.
- It's hinted at that Darius is working with Raine.
- There's an example of the jealousy that Lilith once had towards her sister when her and Eda are going over flash cards on their way to Hexside.
- It showed us that Alador and Darius used to be friends.
That was a very interesting video, I'll make sure to go back and watch some of your other Owl House content!
and honestly I fill the same way about amity. Okay yess she stopped hanging out with wilth willow because her parents mad her but then she spend years turmenting her of her own account the first time we see her she’s following willow around bullying her and clearly taking sadistic joy in them the next time we see her she try’s to force luz to give up magic for no reason then when she lose cry and makes her self pathetic intill luz fills sorry for her then in the next episode she has the gall to blame luz of bullying her she then lobotomised willow and refuses to help fix it and has to be forced by luz. Then when she blames her parents and is a meetly absolve of all wrong doing. Her only redeeming qualities is that she wanted to get into Luz pants
11:31 which Hey it rhymes with Dora the Explorer LOL
Even though as much as I do LOVE The Owl House I'd still do secretly HATE Disney for not only screwing with the Creator but the writers of the Show and I'd bet there doing the Same thing to Strange World to my guess it will get Dumped onto Disney+ two or three weeks later
Speaking of, did you know Cissy Jones (Lilith’s VA) is playing Optimus prime’s buff (maybe) girlfriend in the new transformers show? Honestly I think when the rest of season 1 comes out Earthspark would make an interesting video essay subject for reasons I can’t say cus of spoilers
This won't be the last time we still have two specials left and if lilith and aladore are in these episodes chances are they are gonna do something that without a shadow of a dought fully redeem there selves and we're expecting odolia, the titan trappers, kikimura, and others who deserve a redemption arc
The only issue I have with Lilith is her character isn’t explored enough, which is probably down to the shortened seasons.
It’s clear she was manipulated and abused whilst working for Belos, but we don’t see enough of this. She was neglected by her parents which led to her taking extreme measures by cursing Eda to get attention from her parents, but this is not expanded on. She has an established relationship with Hunter where she clearly projects her feelings of jealousy onto him because he reminds her of Eda and the feeling of inadequacy due to them being favoured by their respective authority figures, but we don’t even see them interact. She also has a relationship with Amity that is not expanded on in s2, they don’t even interact.
There’s one last episode of The Owl House and I’m hoping Lilith gets more attention, because she has bundles of potential. I’m starting to think they’ll be some sort of sacrifice from her to complete her redemption and the cycle of the Clawthorne/Wittebanes betraying their siblings and whatnot. But there’s a part of me that just thinks they’re not going to go anywhere else with her character, which is a massively missed opportunity in my opinion.
I think her splitting the curse with Eda was good, but what would’ve really cemented her redemption would’ve been atleast one talk with Eda and/or Luz about how she almost killed Luz. That’s the thing that seems massively sidelined in my opinion.
However, it is clear she’s become a much improved person and has actually changed for the better. She clearly cares for Luz now and is making amends with her family.
I don't think she did get off lightly. We get more context through Hunter, Steve, and even Lilith herself, that Belos manipulates those in the Emperor's Coven by cutting them off from family. She was indoctrinated by a cult leader with no other moral compass. The context that Hunter gives us is the same things Lilith went through, because she joined the Emperor's Coven at THE SAME AGE. She may not have been the same wild child as Eda, but she was still a fairly rambunctious kid, which surely made Belos and his subordinates come down on her. Her arc in Season 2 is about deprogramming, which isn't about punishment, it's about reconnection.
Lily pad is very good. I am enjoyed watched the video. Good work on the video.
Would the curse be better if it was more acidental as Lily was playing with some spells and shootign them willy nilly like a kid playing with a Nerf gun and hits Edna with the curse but didnt mean too , sort of like Elsa hittign Anna with her ice by mistake
No tbh. I think the curse works fine as something she consciously did because she only meant for it to last a day, and it shows the extremes she was willing to go to get some sort of attention from the authority figures around her.
1:03 Yes I do remember How I Met Your Mother it's one of my go to favorite sitcoms to watch on Hulu
Kitty: Old content time to capitalize well if you look at my 30 min PowerPoint presentation
Me: It's called Disney saying Fuck you ya get 3 Seasons
I mean forgiveness is a gift not a reward so that's entirely up to Eda and Luz to decide, not the audience.
Then we should see that in the show itself. Like the person (sorry creator, what are your pronouns?) said, King is someone who is capable of having grudges for no reason, so it didn't make sense for him to be too easy on Lilith. Also, season 3 actually did this better with Luz and Camila (for someone who didn't do anything wrong) than with Lilith. Luz clearly screwed up, but Camila didn't get mad. Unlike with Lilith, we get a scene of them discussing it. That type of scenario could've been what made Lilith's arc more organic.
I have a strange dichotomy with Lilith. I like her and want her to have a happy ever after but I also know she did ALOT of terrible things that never really got addressed. I want her to succeed but I want her to suffer in order to get there.
She’s arguably suffered a lot, working under Belos’ leadership and being neglected by her parents, not to mention the guilt that she carried of cursing Eda, but I think the issue is it’s not explored enough.
FINALLY!!!! Someone with a brain.
@@astralaurora4165 That is nothing. Neglect from her parents is no excuse. Especially when her mother had to focus on her, actually, sick daughter. Also, she chose to side with Belos. She had to mock and hurt others for herself. SHE IS EVIL PERSONIFIED!!!!
That's one way of looking at it. It's all about forgivness, you know
27:06 I wish they cancelled Peppa Pig just like I wish they cancel Teen Titans GO and I still do HATE That Show with a Burning Passion
I'm realizing something it's that Philip might have thought Lillith is far stronger than Luz (she has the cure that's why luz is stronger) so he left Lilly to solve the puzzle because he knew Luz would follow him to talk to him so the stone sleeper would attack and kill lilly so he could deal with Luz and get to the collector!
11:16 that's pretty much me at parties being socially award at parties LOL
I thought ‘hootcifer’ was a reference to Calcifer from Howl’s Moving Castle
Cause of how he, ya know, made the house move
Cool vid bro.😺
I knew you meant Lilith.
as much as great of a character of Lilith was even Did she get off easy Short answer yes But she did had some great moments within Season 2 of The Owl House and Lilith did managed to help Luz all though out Season 2 despite that she to leave to be with her mom
When it will be enough? Lilith shares the curse with Eda at first possibility and maniacally helps her sister throughout the rest of series, in last episodes making her potions, pushing herself at risk for King, etc. It will never be enough. "Nice teens" already started a witch hunt on her because she did something she didnt understand the severity of herself at time she did it. I saw a guy compare her to a Virgil from devil may cry, and how laughable this comparison is😂. Lilith was overlooked by her family, even in art she appears as different while Clawthorns share similarities, Lilith is outlier. Her father was practically absent (hello there, Amity's immature neglectful father) and mother cared only about Eda, which only increased after Eda was cursed. Lilith didnt want to hurt her sister she wanted to be appreciated and this is what she did, cursed Edaline, even though SHE DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE SEWERITY OF THE CURSE.Lilith spent her whole life trying to work a way to heal Edalyne. By her actions she already redeemed herself. Considering how she is treated as a walking gag I see it as another desire of creator to laugh at traumatized people and call a witch hunt on them. Overall show was a huge dissapointment with Luz deranged girl who doesnt respect others being always right and villain, a person who was self-taught being not even given some motivation. Overall show treats traumatized people as villains. The only good part was Bat Queen amd Hooty
Ya I never liked her even after she switch sides she still has a sort Im smarter I know better then my sister
Do you think if it wasn't shortened so severely, we would've gotten a palisman episode, sort of like how pokemon had one or more episodes of just the pokemon doing stuff?
Great video u covered pretty much everything that the show could've done for Lilith's character from her never apologizing to Luz or Amity for her actions to them, the fact that season 2 opens with a lot less tension than there should be between her, Luz and Eda to her Palismin never having their name be revealed. There really is a lot of missed opportunities they could've done with Lilith's character but I do disagree with that Thems the breaks kid isn't without good stuff besides Raine's origin's yeah it doesn't add to the plot in the present but does add more lore to character backstories and capabilities like Eda showing off her potion expertise to Lilith in terms of knowledge, finding out that until Raine came along Lilith was Eda's only friend and well like u said it's never directly stated by Eda herself in the episode I do think that her witnessing Terra Snapdragon's crazy on full display might've been what got Eda reconsidering the whole coven thing.
Also Terra's whole display revealing how crazy she is might've been a partial reason as to why Harvey and Gilbert Wilow's dad's did intily want Wilow in the Plant track and eventually the Plant coven.
I like it when you call her Lilypad
11:19 I know How you feel Kitty
In reference in how long the show got to explore this; no. If they had the time to explore the relationship a lot more and not have to sacrafice it to uplift stories they see as more important then yes.
0:07 I am a horrible person for laughing at this
She Kinda Did. But At Least She's Trying To Make Up To Her Mistakes.
However... I Feel Like Her Mother Forgave Her Too Easily. She Basically Ruined Her Family With Eda's Curse And Almost Got The Father Killed!
Finally, someone with a brain.
But her parents also neglected her, right?
Lilith is actually the name of Adam's wife before Eve. She was cast out of Eden cause she refused to submit to Adam. She is considered the first demon.
I never realized Belos deliberately engineered Luz and Lilith going back in time... Guy must have some seriously good memory to remember exactly what the people he met looked like over 400 years later...
How was she a head of the emperor's coven/ had a high status never had emperor's sigil and got to keep her palisman
Personally I think Belos let her keep her palisman in order to earn her trust and to keep her as powerful as possible. Lilith would’ve been devastated if Belos killed her palisman since witches have strong bonds with them (and Lilith probably made hers too). And staffs enhance the magic of their owner. Without her staff, Lilith would’ve been much weaker.
As for the sigil, I have absolutely no idea.
I think they just don't draw in the sigils when they aren't being talked about
@@Faust2508 but the thing is Lilith’s wrists were exposed for the entire season and her sigil was never shown
A little. I think maybe if we learn later that her father never forgave Lil for what she did to Eda and just doesn’t speak to her at all, I think that would be enough besides Lilith sharing in the curse.
I don’t know if that would be satisfying tbh because her parents neglecting her is a part of the reason she cursed Eda in the first place
In my opinion, no. The Disney cartoon character I WOULD say got off too easily is Sasha Waybright.
Agree little
Cassandra from tangled the series got off WAYYY to easily.
@@purpledshadow Yeah Cassandra really got off lightly for her crimes. And Rapunzel kept enabling Cass for all her shitty actions in S3 cause she believed the “Real Cassandra is still in there” which just became an excuse to immediately enable Cass more. Rapunzel was just so stubborn in refusing to see what Cass had become. Honestly in my eyes While Moon Cassandra looked cool it almost wasn’t worth it for the utter mess Season 3 was made into.
So yeah I will definitely believe Sasha had redemption compared to the “redemption arc ” Cassandra had in the final episode when she was predictably backstabbed by the show’s bigger bad.
Belos knew Lily was the witch who broke his nose years ago? So it wasn't necessary for Lily to bewitch her sister because she had to be part of the coven anyway for the emperor's plan to be completed?
The bisexual cheerleader?
While I don't enjoy how Lilith treated Eda season 1 I do believe that the way she acts is because of certain things. Like for instance she only cursed Eda because she knew she was a better witch than her causing her to have resentment for what her sister had in strength she had to work harder to gain. I also take into the fact that all her life she was pushed aside by her own mother because Eda had more potential in what she was doing. Taking into account that Eda left her family shortly after she hurt her father it could be that Lily never got the chance to come to terms with her resentment towards her and that culminated into her insults towards her later on. Lilith is also manipulated by Belos just like everyone else was and given how she was taught wild magic is bad and the curse probably came from wild magic could explain how she views and treats Eda with it and her knowing she's the one who did it makes her feel somewhat superior to her for once even though she clearly loves her sister and regrets her decision.
11:56 boy that must have SUCK take from someone who Works in a Cubical as my job for a living that must have SUCK and I feel the pain (note don't take this comment too seriously it's all for the sake of a joke) plus I'd never talk about my my job
In short: Yes Lilith got off to easy and didn't really try hard for forgiveness.
Also when you said "Hunter's growth felt more natural", you lost me cause no it didn't.
I agree with you, completely. What Lilith did was horrible. It's any reason why I wanted that horrid and ugly creature to die.
What the hell happened I just left a long ass comment
If you want that luz need apologize to entire boiling isles for help below come to power
Even if accidentally
Yes.
Maybe when Christmas gets here, you can do an analysis on SoutvParks Jesus
Is it weird that I assumed the nickname for Lilith was just a workaround for RUclips and their ever-changing rules?
Honestly, I think Lilith's redemption was done just fine. No, it wasn't as good as Hunter's, but Lilith showed genuine remorse, did her best to atone for her actions, and her reasoning (albeit flawed) was justified. Will Lilith get even more character growth? Only the next two specials will tell and considering how the last special went, we just may! The Owl House was pushed into a corner by Disney, having to rush production, but so far they have still managed to tell a good story.
Compare this to character redemptions in Steven Universe and you really start to think "gee, that isn't so bad after all." Using the WORST example first, the Diamonds were rushed characters who went from space dictators to villains we were supposed to sympathize with, but not enough rationale was given. If they wanted to do this, then Yellow would have rationalize her heel-face turn (she was a tyrant so Pink being alive through Steven doesn't excuse her actions), Blue needed to apologize to Garnet (for what is the gem equivalent of being a bigot), and White could not (and should not) have been redeemed at ALL! As for Pink, instead of completely assassinating her character, they could have had Steven discover a digital diary that both explained the reasons behind her actions (i.e. that White was using her like a puppet, even though it still wouldn't excuse what she did) and contained apologies to the ones she hurt. Everyone would formulate their own opinions about Pink, decide whether to forgive her, and accept that Steven's actions are not the same as his mother's.
Instead? Pink Diamond's character was assassinated by introducing more characters she hurt through her actions (and further convoluting the plot), Yellow's only rationale behind her actions was "I'm doing it for White," and Blue never once is shown to change her views towards different gem fusions! This all culminated in a rushed finale that redeemed characters who honestly had done nothing to deserve it, pushed a dangerous message of "love your family no matter what, even if some of the members of it are toxic individuals who need to be cut out of your life for the sake of your own health," and assassinated a previously good character (by having her start a war, fake her own death, and abandon someone who truly had feelings for her), a lackluster movie that just added more questions than answering them because of desiring to redeem the villain YET AGAIN (I adore Spinel, but at this point we'd seen way too many character redemptions in Steven Universe), and a god-awful sequel that in addition to being a very toxic portrayal of mental illness for children, completely undid everything the original series stood for.
Steven going into rage mode to the point where he would shatter another gem is completely against his previous pacifist nature. Also why even BOTHER teasing a Jasper (a character who Lapis admitted she took out her anger on, suffered from self-esteem issues because of it to the point where she willingly fused with a corrupted gem, thus corrupting herself) redemption in the finale if they were just going to use her to enrage Steven, setting off his PTSD just so they could animate a giant "Kaiju Steven" fight in the long run? All Steven's actions (lashing out at his friends and family, being overly clingy, etc.) culminated in a portrayal of PTSD even worse than their handling of Lapis Lazuli because even though Lapis was terrible to Peridot, turning Steven into a monster conveys the false narrative of "I am a monster" to individuals with PTSD and makes children who don't understand mental illness think that people who have PTSD are dangerous when in reality, they are suffering because they have to constantly relive their trauma.
Sorry for going off on a tangent about Steven Universe. It's just I enjoy both (for separate reasons), but I much prefer The Owl House's writing when compared to Steven Universe's. They were both shows that got screwed over by the network, but looking at their character redemptions, you can tell who put in more research.
Anyway, excellent analysis video. Keep it up!
@@sirpheredin1379 1. I don’t hate Steven Universe. I hate how certain plot points were handled in season 5, the movie, and Future because it was a show with potential. Yes, there was executive meddling, but when a show tackles sensitive topics like mental illness, they have to do their research. As someone who watched the series from the start and struggles with mental illness, I was offended by how they handled it. The Owl House handles the topic of mental illness much better, has much more competent writing overall, and it dealt with worse executive meddling.
2. When I said I liked both, I meant I liked the music in Steven Universe. Say what you will about the show’s writing declining (and it shows), but the music is well composed. I used to like the show itself, but then the writing went downhill. They ruined not one but two previously good characters, one of which I actually liked.
I’m not the only one who feels this way and before you respond with “it’s just a kid’s show so don’t get so critical,” that’s no excuse. Plenty of shows for all ages tackle serious issues with grace and show runners are fighting for representation so their stories can be told. The Owl House is a perfect example of this.
Yeah I saw another RUclipsr say that Owl House does elements of SU better.
I think Amphibia does elements of SU wanted to do better too.
@@bunnychu15 Never speak of Steven Universe again for as long as you live.
@@DrawciaGleam02 Never speak of Steven Universe again for as long as you live.
You do reactions? There's two youtubers:-"lowart"and",GodzillaMendoza"who I noticed made short sighted and biased analysis on some media I like or enjoy. Please consider it!
I thought you called her Lilly pad for religious reasons. You sound great 👍 i love hearing your voice
Any chance for a new toh episode (from you, not an actual episode) in the future?
15:46 is that a thing?
Joking
No it's because he needed her to go to past
Wow, kudos to actually knowing what taking the Lord's name in vain means. Way to put the Monk in Kitty Monk! 🙏
I've been thinking about king's dad.. you never hear of female titans... what if there are none and they spontaneously spawned an egg? it could be like snails where they are both genders...
I mean life just... appears on their corpse. like the old norse legend of elves being created from the body of a giant... maybe titans are the progenitors of life in that dimension... though if the boiling isles titan is King's father... how old was his egg? and does the egg take a thousand years to mature and hatch? could the collector have influenced the titan trappers to hunt titan to stop more islands from being created in the future? and if so why?
goddamn it Disney we needed more episodes.
Yes maybe but I still can't help but help but love her. I feel she has redeemed herself.
Can you do an episode on blitz and luna’s relationship? Plzzzzzzzzzzzz
Crying laughing bc my comment made it into the video 🤣🤣
But he couldn't he needed keep around til her and luz go to the past
no, she didn’t
30:07 FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT LILITH X HOOTY FOREVER
(It's a joke btw don't come at me)
#TheOwlHouse #SaveTheOwlHouse #theowlhouseseason3 #TheOwlHouseSeason4 #AnimationDeservesBetter
#KillLilithClawthorne
Tenth
No luz is
Yess she got of why to f easy she cursed he own sister to become a wild animal that indiscriminately kills peoples and forced her to run away and live in the wilderness after accidentally disfiguring there father. She them joins a fashest regime acting has a brutal inforser of how rounded up innocent people and and tryd to adduct and in slave her sister to the coven. And she had no problem kidnapping and torturing luz to make that happen a job she never quit by the way. Even after she found out they where just turning Edna to stone instead of inslaving her. She only turned on them after they fired her. And even after all that and her sister just forgave her and took her into her home she still has this hottie I’m better then you additude try to rub her nose in ho mutch smarter she is. And the cherry on top she has the holl to complain about how her mother spend all her time trying to cure her sister and how it wasn’t faire to her after everything she forced her sister to go thraw living alone in the wilderness not disfiguring there father losing her one true love instead of filling any empty for what she’s poot everybody thraw . She still only cares about how it effects her. Not her sister not her family not sorry how she tryd to kill luz she still finds a way to make it all about her how she’s there victim. and honestly I fill the same way about amity. Okay yess she stopped hanging out with wilth willow because her parents mad her but then she spend years turmenting her of her own account the first time we see her she’s following willow around bullying her and clearly taking sadistic joy in them the next time we see her she try’s to force luz to give up magic for no reason then when she lose cry and makes her self pathetic intill luz fills sorry for her then in the next episode she has the gall to blame luz of bullying her she then lobotomised willow and refuses to help fix it and has to be forced by luz. Then when she blames her parents and is a meetly absolve of all wrong doing. Her only redeeming qualities is that she wanted to get into Luz pants. And frankly Disney has a big problem with toxic self sent woman it’s the same think with mable and Star butterfly and just like those two they ruined the how show for me. Mable is a pampered princess who who is incapable of caring how her actions effect other and very toxic influence on her brother she sold out the intire human race to be subjected by sadistic demons. All just to regain complete control over her brother
they got on you for Lilypad? I thought it was just a cute nickname.
Love it
No.
While not as off as Vegeta was .
Gonna comment spam you while I’m cosplay researching don’t mind me