Nice thing about Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra is that when you say it to someone, and they understand the reference, it confirms the point of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
Your comments regarding the autistic’s view of human culture as an outsider echos Temple Grandin’s statement that she often feels like an “anthropologist on mars.” Thank you for sharing. It helps the rest of us non-autistics to understand better what it is like for you to feel like an outsider on your home planet.
"I am an android on a witness stand, pleading with you to believe in my personhood. Frankensteins monster in the forest. The silkie's child, her toes webbed. Enkidu cursing on his deathbed. I have seen the acorn before the oak, the egg before the hen but never the likes of this." That hit hard.
Roy Batty at the end of Blade Runner, accepting his mortality after having saved Deckard's life, when he had no reason to, and many reasons to let Deckard die.
Thanks for this. I recall being 48 years old playing the card game Eucre with my family. My partner was my niece, 25 yrs younger. We lost a hand in the game, and I whispered offhand “Shaka, when the walls fell”. At this, she stared at me, wide eyed, across the card table. Like I was staring into her soul., and uttered two words. “At Tanagra”.
… I’m in South Texas, the middle of nowhere, and I’m watching a segment you put up a year ago, called mythology, autism, and Star Trek’s Darmok… I think what you have to say is very insightful. I’m glad you’re so young to realize what’s going on in Star Trek. I hope you’re watching the new version with Captain Pike because many of those episodes are very deep…🖖🏼
came for the autism-to-Darmok connection, became absolutely captivated by the autism-to-fandom-to-fandom-culture connection you made and are so right about
Ok here’s the actual take: The second half of Gilgamesh is TNG. The FIRST half of Gilgamesh, aka “the adventures of king jackass and his advisor/boyfriend who doesn’t know how to human,” is obviously TOS.
Yes! I love that! Also, found you here specifically for this; you are intensely skilled at this communicating thing in this medium, probably even when you don't think you hit the mark. Thank you for putting this into words. Ogma of the Irish, his words carved in stone.
Whenever I tell my daughters things I always talk in tamarian. Time to go I say "Mirab his sails unfurled" shuddup sounds better saying "the River Tamarc in Winter!" Sounds far better.. much better.
Darmok was one of TNG's best episodes. ST always used the dodge of the Universal Translator so they could get right to the conversation, but establishing communication would have been the first and hardest chore with each new meeting. The alien language shouldn't have been that hard to decipher, but it gave a one episode, simplified experience of trying to work someone's language out.
@@willf.4590 I invite all my fellow Trekkers and you particularly to enjoy an unauthorized novel completely free. Just google Star Trek Lost Destiny Race.
Shortly after this episode aired a friend was in her kitchen, I heard a loud noise, cussing and wailing. I went to see. She had dropped a large glass bowl of salad and it broke on the floor. I said... "Salaad...when the bowl fell". She had to quit cussing and laugh.
I find it touching that this old tv show made probably before you were born touched you so profoundly. THis was an excellent video and thank you for making it.
I do the exact same thing but it's with Doctor who instead of Star Trek. Wild. I'm not alone and that makes me feel seen in a way. Thanks for commenting. I really appreciate it.
"Really easy to speak and very, very hard to communicate." I think you just summed up one of my son's greatest struggles better than anyone. Thank you for that. :)
@@DrunkDoglol The State tends to do a better job than people ranting about the state in random RUclips comments sections that have nothing to do with politics. Like, no. Parents SHOULDN'T have 100% control over their kids. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Insane people have kids. Stupid people have kids. Sociopaths have kids.
I'm not sure if this is what you were implying at the end, but what I heard was: "Gilgamesh at the End of the Earth" = "to boldly go where no one has gone before".
"I have found it very easy to speak but hard to communicate" is such a profound and important thing to hear as someone who very much has this issue. I could talk for hours but actually getting through to the other person can be like pulling teeth. You're definitely going to be someone I quote with what you said.
@@MegaLotusEater speaking your mind does not always mean you are understood. For some even a small gap can seem to be a large chasm. The goal of communication is to be understood.
@@MegaLotusEater It depends on the audience. You may have to adapt your speech in order to effectively communicate with the listener. My question is, are autistic people incapable or unwilling to adapt?
Wow. As a Star Trek fan, and a person who loves mythology, that was really...really good. You have a gift for story telling. I enjoyed this video. Thank you for making it.
I love how you say "autistic people are observers of culture from the outside" perfect description of how ASD feel. ASD female here who also loves Star Trek ❤ and Iove the connections to mythology, also great topic😊
Do you also get really deep into something? A particular interest, subject, or hobby? Deeper than most would go? That seems to be me. I get to a point where I know most of what there is to know about something then move on or repeat certain scenes that speak to me or something I'm trying to communicate with others. I'm also really good at making connections. Anyways, I was glad to see your comment thanks for sharing.
I'm a film editor and also neuroatypical and I love the way you communicate through EDITING and it gets gears turning in my brain about how to represent the experience of people like us.
Yes I'm this way with music production and photography and capturing video. I'm all over the place. I get really deep into a subject and the bam into the next deep dive. I get something out of each thing but I don't find others having that obsessiveness in regards to really getting deep into something and using it as a form of expression. Thanks for commenting.
"Darmok" is one of my favourite TNG episodes, and has moved me to tears many times. So often what is in our hearts and minds is betrayed by the limits of our ability to communicate. This fact is illustrated powerfully in "Darmok". Picard's eventual breakthrough is triumphant yet terribly bittersweet. Great performances all around. When Picard tells of the fate of the other captain- who had, in that short time, become his friend- "Shaka, when the walls fell.", the emotion in his voice is palpable. You are quite brilliant. I enjoyed this a great deal. Forgive me if I'm being shallow here, but I wish to respectfully state the obvious, that you are rather beautiful. There's the beauty one is born with, and there is the beauty one earns by what they become. You have both.
I was brought here by my love for both Star Trek TNG and ancient mythology. Love your thoughts on this episode. It’s one of my favourites as well. My absolute favourite episode is “The Inner Light,” where Picard lives a whole other person’s lifetime. Thanks for your musings on this!
This was my favorite episode as well…my favorite part of the episode is when Picard talks to the Tamarian ship at the end…he delivers the lines with such passion that you can tell what he means just through the his tone and emotion in the words.
"...I have always found it really easy to speak, and very, very hard to _communicate."_ ...the most relatable thing I've heard in some time. The (di/tri)lemma I struggle with is: if I summarize too much, the "blanks" get filled in wrong by listeners who don't share my context - but if I clarify too much, I can't express a complete thought before the listener's attention span runs out. Either way, assumptions get made, and they're often the opposite of what I'm intending to communicate. I feel there _must_ be a middle ground, but it's hard to find on-the-spot in real-time.
Just watched Darmok on your recommendation, wrote like two pages of notes on it, then came back to re-watch your video about it. I also cried at the scene where Picard reflects on the Tamarian captain being willing to die for a chance to communicate.
Thank you for helping me understand my autistic teenager's love of storytelling in his interests. I have always loved that episode of TNG and now I see it's another in a long line of things that have prepared me for the journey of understanding I've had with my son. ❤️
the comments on this video are so wonderful and touching, and this one is no exception. It’s an honor to be part of helping you understand your son ❤️ thank you
I always figured the writers changed the story on purpose in a meta way because they needed him to tell the plot relevant part very quickly. But gosh I love the idea of in-universe Picard telling it the way HE remembers, according to what is important to HIM. And honestly, why not both? Also you making a string of references as part a way of communicating made my autistic mythology nerd so happy. I, too, interpret the world through stories, and while I’m new to Star Trek, I was instantly fascinated by the Tamarians. This was a lovely essay yeah I know it’s old and you may not see this comment but 🖖
I use scenes to express myself or deal with feelings or get a point across. Idk, guess it's a storytelling mindset. But I kind of suck at starting conversations so it's a go to for me.
@@TravisLee33I speak in movie quotes. I bonded with a very cranky but competent coworker after finding I could make her laugh after things like, ‘I’ve got a bad feeling about this.’ You’d never have know she was a Star Wars fan, or huge Harrison Ford fan.
In my opinion, Darmok was and still is one of the best episodes not only in the STNG but in the whole of Star Trek shows put together, and to see a lovely young lady not only that see it, but also liked it but understand what the story was trying to say and for you to be moved by it give me great hope and joy.
Astrid, I am in awe of you. You are so intelligent, so earnest. I will watch this video over and over to grasp the full depth of what you are saying about language and mythology. I am also in awe of the writers of this episode who not only invented a new language but a new principle by which a language may be constructed. What you have put before me has my head spinning.
Sokath, his eyes opened! I’m not autistic but according to a psychologist I dated and lived with for nine years, I’m on the Asperger spectrum. I have seen the episode Darmok a few times and it remains one of my favourites. I think you just explained why. I had never realized that I myself constantly try to understand the world outside and how to communicate with it-and why sometimes, my best efforts (not just at communicating) fail. Thank you!
As soon as you explained the Tamarians' way of speaking, I realized how well it fits with current internet culture. A lot of us find it easier to connect with someone over a piece of fiction than over something like emotions or ideologies; it's sort of become the norm. We communicate via narratives and allegories. We might even literally go so far as saying "like when character A experienced this and that" in everyday conversation. Very cool video.
I don't think it is just internet culture. Historically well educated people of different backgrounds found it easier to communicate through references to classical literature. Think of how we communicate about things like computer "viruses": we use metaphors such as virus, worm and references such as Trojan [horse]. Orators through the centuries would use references to folklore, mythology and literature in their rhetoric talking of odysseys, describing colleagues as mercurial, foes as wolves in sheep's clothing, talking of the die being cast or the crossing of the Rubicon. Some of this is in-groupism, but more often the use of such references is because they are a much more succinct way of getting across a very particular point, a very well-refined semantic, to the person or people they were addressing. In that way modern meme culture is not revolutionary but evolutionary to a long-standing form of rhetoric.
Growing up i always was able to see myself in doctor who and is the reason its stuck with me so long. So much of me is built from thousands of hours hyperfixating on the doctor and their maneurisms and social interactions obsessing over their morals and feeling seen when no one else saw me. I rarely do something without thinking of the doctor and rarely have a conversation i cant tie into doctor who somehow (something that has caused me trouble in the past). I dont know where im going with this so ill just say that this video means a lot to me and is so well put together and i absolutely love it ❤
first of all...I feel u... I also write (much longer, and much more confusing) such comments xD most of the time, just for me. To write it of my hugr. But one thing I want to know... How the heck does the doctor got u in trouble??? I mean, our entire discord channel thinks in quotes...omg...we r tamarians
An important part of doctor Who is change. The Doctor changes, now and then, a new body, new mind, new relationships, not so different adventures and a simple philosophy, it was always a Kid's show, it teaches things about life. We all change as we grow and sometimes we want to be someone totally different, but, like the Doctor, the most basic part of us, our root morality, stays the same, even grows stronger. The original doctor was a bit of a spoiled jerk, by the time we get to Max, the doctor's morality is set, but then comes Jodie and a totally different perspective and an overload of morality. I think the evolution of Missy is also about the evolution of the Doctor, he has loved the Master for a long time, but much like his own shadow, his own darker, inner self. Missy is allowed to be weak as the Master never was, and the Doctor in allowed to share her weakness and find long buried beauty. Aren't we all like that?
This is beautiful. It reflects my own experience with folklore, Star trek, this specific episode, and discovering my own autism. This understanding of communication, of storytelling... It so resonates with my own understanding. And listening to you speak about things you find beautiful is, to me, beautiful.
Thanks for bringing us all together, one step at a time. Spock was my guide in childhood and his eyebrow raise 'Fascinating' about human life, amongst other things, offered me a doorway to understand myself. Cheers me dear!
thank you for this analysis, you perfectly put into words a feeling i've had deeply, of the disconnect in communication with others and the importance of shared stories. I've cried many times at star trek, and while Darmok wasn't ever my favorite episode, you've definitely shown me its importance. Also that point about having anthropology as an interest because we're learning how to be a person.
8:10 - Absolutely brilliant connection you made here. I don't have autism but I've played Magic the Gathering for two decades and I've befriended several people with autism through the game. The game becomes like a cultural and referential bedrock that helps people communicate with one another.
Boy, I really get what you mean about Picard’s recounting of the Epic of Gilgamesh incorrectly , because that is exactly what I thought at the time - because I too care about the myth very much- But if you may be mistaken on that point… On the other hand, your perception of fandom in the way fans communicate to each other through cosplay, kabuki, and obscure references, that only they can get references to the stories in the characters that means so much to all of us Trekkies, Truly blew my mind and opened it to an entirely new idea InVision on the culture… Thank you!
Hey, first video I've ever seen from you and I love the analysis you did here. Darmok was always up there with my favorite episodes of Star Trek and legitimately has the ability to make me cry because the Tamarians' desire to form a connection and communicate, even to the point that their captain is willing to sacrifice his life, is just so deeply human, and their inability to do actually do so is so relatable. One way I've always been weird compared to normal people is that I've never really been all that much of a "music person" but I've still always appreciated it's ability to convey emotion, often much more so than words to the point that the words themselves are often unimportant or unnecessary, and the same is essentially true of the Tamarian method of communication. I hope that including a link to another youtube video is alright and doesn't cause this comment to be blocked, but here's a link to a song about the story of Darmok and Jilad (written in the style of a Tamarian, of course) that you should really check out because I think it's such an effective melding of and demonstration of the ability for both music and the Tamarian style of contextless metaphor to do what all language was intended to do at it's most basic, to connect with someone else and share that emotion. It's actually a music video too that has some absolutely incredible stop motion work for a youtube video that makes it worth checking out on it's own. It ends with five words on screen that summarize the meaning of the story of Darmok and Jilad, the episode "Darmok", and so much of the human experience that always really get to me, "arriving separately, but leaving together." ruclips.net/video/Jyrwlez9Lmo/видео.html Thanks to anyone who actually took the time to read all that.
Thank you for getting it, Astrid. For me, this has always been the most powerful of all the Star Trek myths which are always rich with mythology. To share a common story is somewhere near the heart of all communication and connection. "I think, therefore, I tell stories." Thank you for sharing your insights and poetic heart.
Maybe only Tuvok for me (if even, but I still highly admired Data and SoN, while definitely being able to get along well with SoN's highly autistic demeanor despite not being able to relate to her. Not surprising that I don't relate to them considering that I don't consider myself to have ASD at all. I just get along oddly well with such people.
I related to Spock from the beginning and when watching re-runs a admired this character even more in different ways. I also related to Data and 'Voyage' definetely became my favorite Star Trek series when Seven of Nine came up. She was the Spock and the Data that were missing. I relate to them everytime I feel isolated, not being part of aything and taking the view of an outsider.
Darmok is one of my favorite episodes. Ironically (or perhaps not?), they predicted the rise of meme culture, of which ST:TNG became a primary wellspring people drew memes from. (I only have to say, "Data and Lore, in the hallway" and you instantly know I'm talking about words that are ordered ambiguously.) Incidentally, I was "Mr. Spock" as a kid, so I totally grew up with Trek-as-metaphor. Which is probably why I liked Darmok so much, because Dathon was me. Like you, the weird guy, trying to be understood. And now Trek has kind of become a meta-metaphor. (And you cannot tell me that the Thermians were not autistic, by Grabthar's hammer.)
That was SO COOL. Oh my goodness. I loved everything you said about mythology being retold and the teller becoming part of the story - I do theater and I feel the same way about new performances of plays. I'm not a Trekkie (yet) and I'm (probably) allistic but I'm very into fandoms and I really do love when fandoms talk in allusions and really enjoyed your reflections on communicating through allusions in Star Trek and real life. Really really loved when you demonstrated it by going through a list of literary references (thank you for the context captions!!). The literary allusions communicated so much more than new words could have done on their own. You put entire epics into a single sentence. I. AAAAA. Will be saving this video.
I actually felt like the second have of Gilgamesh was sort of meant to be the beginning of Gilgamesh taking the lessons of Enkidu into his life. In the first half, Enkidu is tricked into the human world, and it's kind of spoken of as if he's done something you're not supposed to. It's a taboo or some barrier you don't cross. But, he did. And as a result, he found someone who loved him (even platonically) in a way that he was willing to die to protect. In the second half, as Gilgamesh mourns, I forget exactly what it is that the old hag says to him, but I believe it's something to the effect of "did you love him, or did you love what he provided you?" When she tells him "only the sun crosses the sea" and he makes his promise to cross it, I always felt like that was him saying he was going to do what Enkidu did and grow beyond the limits he was handed, but on his own terms. Ultimately, Gilgamesh is a meant to be a sort of tourist attracting pamphlet to show how cool his city is above all of his neighbors, but I like to think the writers were at least trying to tell a story with more weight to it than that. That the humanity of our ancestors was translated into the stories they told each other.
that part about fandom and finding your identity through stories resonated with me so much... i have never known how to connect with other people directly, through my own experience. but pointing at a character and saying "look, that person is like me" is currently the closest i feel i can get to being understood. maybe that's why i have been creating stories, a mythology of my own mind in a way, since i was little... it's the only way i can understand my own self as well.
Wonderful stuff, Astrid! You talk well and communicate better! I have often tried to persuade (cajole, enrol) people of the power of Sci-Fi as it takes (often) ordinary people and puts them in extraordinary situations to see what happens! Your words just after seven minutes are exquisite: "Star Trek is such anthropology fan-fiction. It's all about observing culture from the outside and I think that's a very relatable thing to people who have always felt like outside observers of human culture"
Wow! This is incredible. Darmok has always been one of my favorite things in all of television. Your unpacking of it was fascinating and moving. Thank you for giving us your thoughts and feelings on it. You’ve got a new subscriber.
This is what makes your content so fascinating. I could listen to your ruminations on Star Trek and literature & life every day and never be bored. Thank you.
Thank you Astrid. It's very rare for me to hear others discuss their struggles with "how to person". The star trek episode analysis was just the cherry on top ❤
I only got my ADHD diagnosis two years ago but I also totally relate to being a huge fan of a thing and communicating with people through fanhood of things. I also love psychology and Star Trek.
just as Picard felt the need for a dying Dathon to understand his parable in that moment, he too understood the relevance and significance of what was happening: two cultures, two different people, trying to establish a common frame of reference, using story to create story. beautiful episode, wonderful video Astrid. Picard and Dathon at El Adrel
Wow, OK, I don't know how I stumbled across this video, but I'm sure glad I did. What a fantastic video and such a deeply passionate study of that story.
Just wanted to mention that you are here, what I call a definition of 'articulate'. Choosing words and structures of sentences with such accuracy to the aim of what you're trying to communicate. Such command of language! Makes one transfixed to listening to you. I also find your musings fascinating and familiar. Thank you!
One of the rarities... a beautiful human being on the inside and on the outside. And also intelligent... and also a Scifi fan... come on guys... gotta love that last part! I wish her well, prosperity, and grace.
Love this video. Have always remembered this episode of Star Trek as one of my favorites too because communication and the difficulty but necessity of it has become so essential to my worldview too. Accurate communication is something we kind of take for granted, but I marvel at just how much miscommunication happens that sometimes isn't even recognized by both parties. This episode shows just how important context and full understanding is that depends on both parties two way focus instead of on just their own. I wish more people would actively think as deeply as you discus about communication and learn more and more skills for proper communication, but sadly many seem oblivious and intent on moving the opposite direction.
Science Fiction made a big difference to me. My favorite author was Robert Heinlein. Read Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh mistress and Time Enough for Love and you will see three books that had a profound effect on me. The Dune series and works by Isaac Asimov affected me too.
Thank you for this Astrid. Because of your youth, you may not realize that one of the effects that television had on culture was to further ingrain in most people an expectation of what "normal" behavior is. Before television existed, there were other social forces that did this as well, but television advanced this expectation much more than other social phenomena. In the early days of television, there were far more side characters that were in some very noticeable ways "odd". Obviously the main purpose of this was for comedic and dramatic effect, but it was also considered normal for many people to be "odd". When I was growing up, many of people of the older generations had either not watched much television or hadn't watched television, and they did not expect everyone to be what we might now call "normies". This doesn't mean that people of these older generations were necessarily more accepting, but they were at least more aware. In older television shows, often it is the main characters that are atypical, such as Lucy in "I Love Lucy" or Ralph Kramden in "The Honeymooners". Obviously the audience is expected to recognize that these characters are atypical people, but the audience and the other characters in the shows _expect_ that it is normal to encounter many atypical people. I find it interesting and illuminating that many mythological characters are not at all what modern people would consider neurotypical. In my opinion the bulk of ancient Greek deities, heroes, and antiheroes are almost defined by the ways in which each are divergent.
@@williamchamberlain2263 Great example William Chamberlain! In addition to bouts of rage, the Iliad depicts Achilles with what we would now call manic depression, where about 2/3 of the time he won't even come out of his tent or interact socially at all, and 1/3 of the time he'll come out and battle so hard that the Greek side always gains ground on those days. The Greek soldiers never knew ahead of time which kind of day it would be regarding Achilles' participation.
"I am Vincent in 'Pulp Fiction', his hands wide at his sides." That would refer to the meme of him turning around in confusion. Now when me or my friend text each other half of our conversations have gif images to reinforce or replace sentences.
Back again to listen/watch this in its entirety, and I am once again blown away. This is the video which brought me to your channel, one of the few times the algorithm has done me a great good deed. I am repeating myself but I do not care because what I am about to write is so true. You seem to express doubts about your communication skills and I am wondering how early this video is in the history of your channel, because as I have followed you and watched many more of your presentations over the past year or two, I am continually impressed with your growing and seemingly natural talent as a communicator of complex scientific facts and stories to people like me whose only scientific tool is curiosity and whose foundation in scientific knowledge is limited, to say the least. Thank you for all you do. You have single-handedly given me a better understanding of how autism affects people while providing compelling, informative, content related to many aspects of science and scientific discovery. You are a bright star in the sometimes dark universe of RUclips content which is overpopulated with foolish, deceptive, negative, narcissistic, and just plain silly content creators. You brighten my day every time I catch a new video on your channel.
This was a very interesting video. I had quite similar thoughts when watching "Darmok", although for me it takes on other meanings than neurodivergence and goes into the philosophy of communication and a kind of chomskian linguistics, when we speak, it is always through some kind of shared game/context/reference points. This episode is something that bubbles up in my mind repeatedly over the years.
I keep watching this over and over and over again. It helps me to remember what is important.
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I am so thankful of finding this today. Building a boat on the edge of the earth is such a powerful image and brings me a degree of consolation. Thanks Astrid.
I am a 37-year-old father from a small town in northeastern Brazil. I have no idea how or why the RUclips algorithm brought me here. It was very strange, but I am extremely grateful because I loved your video and your personality. Consider yourself embraced! Peace! 🤗
Thank you, Astrid, for this video. I loved everything about it. It spoke to me deeply, in words I have trouble finding for myself. And I cried for all who struggle to communicate and person, but also found true hope.
I was already subscribed, so I hit the little bell thing. RUclipsrs are also really into ringing the bell for some reason. I think it has something to do with a fairy getting its wings, but I could be confused.
This video is absolutely beautiful. I knew when I saw that episode there was a reason it has clung with me ever since. You have perfectly explained it, and done so in a way that seems uniquely "you" in all the right ways. Thank you, from a new subscriber.
I always sort of viewed the Darmok story as a planet of aliens that speak jive, which often is metaphors within metaphors, and they often would change over time, much like slang does, or cockney. Films like "Airplane" often depict people speaking mid 20th century Jive with regular people, and its pretty funny. I also recall an old 1940s cartoon 9tho I can't remember if it was by Disney or Warner Bros) in which a character is narrated entirely in Jive, but in the literal sense depicted in the imagery while telling the story, and when he's saying "I can't cut the mustard" which is an idiom meaning "I can't achieve my intended goal/result" but depicts the cartoon character literally trying to cut mustard on a plate and failing at it. However in Star Trek, they never made this commentary on language using humor nor comedy, they shifted it into a focus on the usage of language and ideas, and cultural differences, and made it more meaningful, and moving with a well written ending that's impactful, and philosophical. In some ways its like an Aesop Fable, but without animals, in uses Aliens and a Star Ship Captain to convey a kind of moral lesson at the end, and depicted the seemingly backwards alien culture to actually be highly advanced, wise, and high ideals of integrity, such as self sacrifice for a cause towards the greater good. its not surprising as to why people dislike religion, and prefer to look to Science Fiction, such as Star trek, as a sort of reverse Mythology that looks to an imaginary future for inspiration, rather than an exalted past of heroes, or saviors, or Golden Ages.
But alas, you also have shrewd people who use that exalted/mythological past for political gains, and it works (or they use SF to create a sect). I always loved that TNG episode and how the references had a positive meaning (because, after all, it was Star Trek), but at the same time I had a nagging feeling that it's the same kind of references certain political parties use to spread a message that's everything but positive. I know... I'm a party pooper...
Your script was immaculate. It's refreshing to hear someone speak so fluidly with intended words rather than by stumbling over words that don't mean exactly what the speaker wishes to say. Gosh, that TikTok hurt my soul, though.
Old Video but thank you algorithm. I always use data throwing Crusher overboard on the Holodeck as an example for understanding the concept of humour but not the social context/timing required. But Darmok basically nails the desperation of trying to be understood when your way of communicating is so different from those you try to talk to. Guess there's a reason why I'm a sucker for "two stranded people (who may be enemies) have to figure out how to communicate to escape"-type stories. "Enemy Mine" or Stargate's "Unas" come to ind
I remember Darmok. I was just thinking about the other day. It has stayed with me all of these years, and now I understand why. I am beginning to suspect that I might be neuro divergent, it would explain so many things about me and my life. And your explanation is brilliant and lends understanding to why that episode still comes to mind, the inability to communicate. Communication is such a vital part of life and it's always been hard for me. That and connecting with people. Well, now you've gone and made me think! I have learned over the years how to be me and to be a friend. I'm 70, it's good I've learned something. Your presentation speaks to me with clarity, I understand what you are saying and it certainly resonates within me. You're very intelligent and interesting. Thank you.
Thanks Astrid your video was exceptional and moving. I was reminded of the French show Astrid who has Autism-I have enjoyed many of your videos recently- Looks like you are constructing a self to navigate the world- the hall of mirrors, the looking glass self, Plato’s cave, the hero journey- Have you ever done Shananic journey work- I found it very helpful to reach deep levels of the self and wise spirits that inspire and teach
Easy to speak but hard to communicate... boy can I relate. Darmok really got me thinking too. What is communication actually? why do we do it? sure, to organize mainly but there is a deeper level. somehow there is a desire to let others know what we think and feel beyond the need of survival and we try to convey those thoughts and emotions via sounds, gestures, facial expression and so on. i pondered so much about this. we can never be sure that the other person really gets what we are trying to say. we can never know if they accurately receive the information we where trying to send, if they feel what we felt, when we said XY. To me our current form of communication is like a futile evolutionary attempt on thought transmission. idk if this makes any sense to anyone but me but maybe it does. and yeah "how to human"... sigh... i gave up on that. what are we anyways? I kinda felt like I emulated personalities of characters from shows and movies i love, mixed with my own quirks and over time those emulated personalities became part of me. "For every person I've tried to be there's another ten inside" (KoRn). now i simply try to be. i dont care anymore if anyone gets me or if i come across weird nor do i want to be perceived as human. i am human after all. at least i guess so. so there really is nothing to try. nobody has a damn clue what tf we are doing here and what it means to be human so nobody can tell me and ultimately i dont need to know to be.
Pardons for going a bit off the trail, but I'm reading your comment over and over again and it got me thinking. One of the highest points of my life concerning communication was in an acting workshop and the guy running it told us the best actor listened to everything their partner said and felt and I took that to heart because I always felt I missed something in conversation with anyone I talked to and ruminated on an important detail I should've picked on. Even now, talking to a longtime friend, I hope I pick up on what they're trying to tell me and what I should say in return because the disconnect of understanding we have with each other is the biggest reason so many of humanity's problems persist.
Astrid on the computer when the You Tubed. Great analysis of Darmok. The TNG that brings tears for me is The Inner Light. What a thing to lose one's life, live another, and somehow have to explain it upon returning in what seems to be decades later and while you are grieving the loss of the "new" life.
You were one of my first TikTok subscriptions early in your time there, and I resonate a great deal with your descriptions of your interests and challenges. Your honesty and vulnerable strength of character inspire me. It reignited my own journey into understanding my own challenges with a new focus, but I've not had success finding nearby people who can help me better understand my own neurodivergence and the challenges I've struggled with throughout my life. Acquiring a diagnosis has been especially challenging given my age (late 50s). You've given me hope. Well done video! I wholly related to your idea of being outside looking in, and have always realized my interest in Psychology and then Anthropology is a means of learning how to "people", as well as appreciate different cultures. I'm looking forward to watching you expand and grow your skills into longer format videos.
Well, this was absolutely amazing. I'm unfamiliar with your channel, I know youtube suggested this video to me at some point, and I've had it on 'watch later' for an age. I added it to one of my narrative playlists that I'm writing, to see what you had to say, and like... Wow. I know I'll end up listening through a few more times over this process. But, thank you for recording and sharing this. Enheduanna, expelled from her temple; The holy cedars dug up by Alexander. I followed the words of Enki! Where is hope? A Raven returns.
3:54 "...I've always found it really easy to speak and very very hard to communicate". This resonates soooo strongly with me as a fellow ADHD+autist. Also, I just found your channel and half your videos seem like just the kind of thing I could see myself rambling about to my fellow NTs, ahah. I instantly queued dozens of clips because the topics seemed interesting AND novel. Insta-subbed. Tjenamors från Sverige!
Nice thing about Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra is that when you say it to someone, and they understand the reference, it confirms the point of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
Shaka when the walls fell
@@FraDonaghyMusictemba his arms open
Sokath, his eyes uncovered
Temba, at rest
❤😂😂❤
Your comments regarding the autistic’s view of human culture as an outsider echos Temple Grandin’s statement that she often feels like an “anthropologist on mars.” Thank you for sharing. It helps the rest of us non-autistics to understand better what it is like for you to feel like an outsider on your home planet.
"I am an android on a witness stand, pleading with you to believe in my personhood. Frankensteins monster in the forest. The silkie's child, her toes webbed. Enkidu cursing on his deathbed. I have seen the acorn before the oak, the egg before the hen but never the likes of this."
That hit hard.
One of the most beautiful sentences I've ever heard.
8:47
I Juliet-on-the-balcony this so much.
Roy Batty at the end of Blade Runner, accepting his mortality after having saved Deckard's life, when he had no reason to, and many reasons to let Deckard die.
@@RamBam3000Like Tears in Rain. We are blessed that Hauer chose to edit and improve the speech to what it became in that moment.
3:56 "My ADHD and autism present that I've always found it easy to speak and very very hard to communicate." 😲😲😯😯
THAT hit me personally.
Me too
Thanks for this. I recall being 48 years old playing the card game Eucre with my family. My partner was my niece, 25 yrs younger. We lost a hand in the game, and I whispered offhand “Shaka, when the walls fell”. At this, she stared at me, wide eyed, across the card table. Like I was staring into her soul., and uttered two words. “At Tanagra”.
… I’m in South Texas, the middle of nowhere, and I’m watching a segment you put up a year ago, called mythology, autism, and Star Trek’s Darmok… I think what you have to say is very insightful. I’m glad you’re so young to realize what’s going on in Star Trek. I hope you’re watching the new version with Captain Pike because many of those episodes are very deep…🖖🏼
Howdy, partner.
came for the autism-to-Darmok connection, became absolutely captivated by the autism-to-fandom-to-fandom-culture connection you made and are so right about
Ok here’s the actual take: The second half of Gilgamesh is TNG. The FIRST half of Gilgamesh, aka “the adventures of king jackass and his advisor/boyfriend who doesn’t know how to human,” is obviously TOS.
Yes! I love that!
Also, found you here specifically for this; you are intensely skilled at this communicating thing in this medium, probably even when you don't think you hit the mark.
Thank you for putting this into words.
Ogma of the Irish, his words carved in stone.
...You're not wrong.
Whenever I tell my daughters things I always talk in tamarian. Time to go I say "Mirab his sails unfurled" shuddup sounds better saying "the River Tamarc in Winter!" Sounds far better.. much better.
Is there anywhere you've posted more about Gilgamesh? I would love to hear you infodumping about it.
So true actually
Darmok was one of TNG's best episodes. ST always used the dodge of the Universal Translator so they could get right to the conversation, but establishing communication would have been the first and hardest chore with each new meeting. The alien language shouldn't have been that hard to decipher, but it gave a one episode, simplified experience of trying to work someone's language out.
Watching Darmok got me interested in linguistics, which got me into playing Chants of Sennaar. It's not to be missed.
@@willf.4590 I invite all my fellow Trekkers and you particularly to enjoy an unauthorized novel completely free. Just google Star Trek Lost Destiny Race.
Google translate is so stupid it can't even get Spanish right.
@@Therabbitmaze-v2j Hopefully, it will get better in 300 years or so?
This episode of TNG makes me want to smash every video device in the house every time I watch it. It’s hideous.
Shortly after this episode aired a friend was in her kitchen, I heard a loud noise, cussing and wailing. I went to see. She had dropped a large glass bowl of salad and it broke on the floor. I said... "Salaad...when the bowl fell". She had to quit cussing and laugh.
Now that is funny!
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I find it touching that this old tv show made probably before you were born touched you so profoundly. THis was an excellent video and thank you for making it.
It is heartwarming that i'm not the only nerd dwelling on the philosophy behind star trek episodes... big heart for that
I do the exact same thing but it's with Doctor who instead of Star Trek. Wild. I'm not alone and that makes me feel seen in a way. Thanks for commenting. I really appreciate it.
I will spend hours with my husband discussing these ideas.
"Really easy to speak and very, very hard to communicate." I think you just summed up one of my son's greatest struggles better than anyone. Thank you for that. :)
This resonates SO MUCH with me too. ❤
I was literally just typing out this quote. I am wrecked.
That's what usually happens when you let the State raise your kids.
@@DrunkDoglol The State tends to do a better job than people ranting about the state in random RUclips comments sections that have nothing to do with politics.
Like, no. Parents SHOULDN'T have 100% control over their kids. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Insane people have kids. Stupid people have kids. Sociopaths have kids.
I'm not sure if this is what you were implying at the end, but what I heard was: "Gilgamesh at the End of the Earth" = "to boldly go where no one has gone before".
"I have found it very easy to speak but hard to communicate" is such a profound and important thing to hear as someone who very much has this issue.
I could talk for hours but actually getting through to the other person can be like pulling teeth. You're definitely going to be someone I quote with what you said.
I think most of us humans have that problem, or something like it.
I dont get it. She communicates v well as far as I can see?
@@MegaLotusEater speaking your mind does not always mean you are understood. For some even a small gap can seem to be a large chasm. The goal of communication is to be understood.
@@HeatGeek1 But she's easily understandable?
@@MegaLotusEater It depends on the audience. You may have to adapt your speech in order to effectively communicate with the listener. My question is, are autistic people incapable or unwilling to adapt?
Wow. As a Star Trek fan, and a person who loves mythology, that was really...really good. You have a gift for story telling. I enjoyed this video. Thank you for making it.
I love how you say "autistic people are observers of culture from the outside" perfect description of how ASD feel. ASD female here who also loves Star Trek ❤ and Iove the connections to mythology, also great topic😊
This was right up my alley. I'm a theater guy with currently undiagnosed autism and I love Trek. My current dnd character is named Darmok. Subscribed!
Do you also get really deep into something? A particular interest, subject, or hobby? Deeper than most would go? That seems to be me. I get to a point where I know most of what there is to know about something then move on or repeat certain scenes that speak to me or something I'm trying to communicate with others. I'm also really good at making connections. Anyways, I was glad to see your comment thanks for sharing.
I'm a film editor and also neuroatypical and I love the way you communicate through EDITING and it gets gears turning in my brain about how to represent the experience of people like us.
Yes I'm this way with music production and photography and capturing video. I'm all over the place. I get really deep into a subject and the bam into the next deep dive. I get something out of each thing but I don't find others having that obsessiveness in regards to really getting deep into something and using it as a form of expression. Thanks for commenting.
The excellent Paul Winfield played the Tamarian captain. He was able to show such range in all of that makeup. Terrific video analysis!
"Darmok" is one of my favourite TNG episodes, and has moved me to tears many times. So often what is in our hearts and minds is betrayed by the limits of our ability to communicate. This fact is illustrated powerfully in "Darmok". Picard's eventual breakthrough is triumphant yet terribly bittersweet. Great performances all around. When Picard tells of the fate of the other captain- who had, in that short time, become his friend- "Shaka, when the walls fell.", the emotion in his voice is palpable.
You are quite brilliant. I enjoyed this a great deal. Forgive me if I'm being shallow here, but I wish to respectfully state the obvious, that you are rather beautiful. There's the beauty one is born with, and there is the beauty one earns by what they become. You have both.
I think you said that perfectly.
I was brought here by my love for both Star Trek TNG and ancient mythology. Love your thoughts on this episode. It’s one of my favourites as well. My absolute favourite episode is “The Inner Light,” where Picard lives a whole other person’s lifetime.
Thanks for your musings on this!
yeah. Star Trek TNG is sooooo fantastically good. exactly those episodes you mentioned were so great.
@@Siddich sure
"Inner Light" was remarkably well conceived and well written, it was brilliant conceptually.
At tanugra, his arms wide open. One of Startrek's finest moments, so profound. Thank you
This was my favorite episode as well…my favorite part of the episode is when Picard talks to the Tamarian ship at the end…he delivers the lines with such passion that you can tell what he means just through the his tone and emotion in the words.
"...I have always found it really easy to speak, and very, very hard to _communicate."_ ...the most relatable thing I've heard in some time. The (di/tri)lemma I struggle with is: if I summarize too much, the "blanks" get filled in wrong by listeners who don't share my context - but if I clarify too much, I can't express a complete thought before the listener's attention span runs out. Either way, assumptions get made, and they're often the opposite of what I'm intending to communicate. I feel there _must_ be a middle ground, but it's hard to find on-the-spot in real-time.
My life in 3 sentences...
Keep trying
Just watched Darmok on your recommendation, wrote like two pages of notes on it, then came back to re-watch your video about it. I also cried at the scene where Picard reflects on the Tamarian captain being willing to die for a chance to communicate.
HELL YEAH
Different feel, different topic, but if you enjoyed Darmok, go watch The Inner Light, next.
Thank you for helping me understand my autistic teenager's love of storytelling in his interests. I have always loved that episode of TNG and now I see it's another in a long line of things that have prepared me for the journey of understanding I've had with my son. ❤️
the comments on this video are so wonderful and touching, and this one is no exception. It’s an honor to be part of helping you understand your son ❤️ thank you
I always figured the writers changed the story on purpose in a meta way because they needed him to tell the plot relevant part very quickly. But gosh I love the idea of in-universe Picard telling it the way HE remembers, according to what is important to HIM. And honestly, why not both? Also you making a string of references as part a way of communicating made my autistic mythology nerd so happy. I, too, interpret the world through stories, and while I’m new to Star Trek, I was instantly fascinated by the Tamarians. This was a lovely essay yeah I know it’s old and you may not see this comment but 🖖
The link between neurodiverse fandom and the mythology-based comunication of the Tamarians in Star Trek is bloody genius
I use scenes to express myself or deal with feelings or get a point across. Idk, guess it's a storytelling mindset. But I kind of suck at starting conversations so it's a go to for me.
Great comment btw.
@@TravisLee33I speak in movie quotes. I bonded with a very cranky but competent coworker after finding I could make her laugh after things like, ‘I’ve got a bad feeling about this.’ You’d never have know she was a Star Wars fan, or huge Harrison Ford fan.
In my opinion, Darmok was and still is one of the best episodes not only in the STNG but in the whole of Star Trek shows put together, and to see a lovely young lady not only that see it, but also liked it but understand what the story was trying to say and for you to be moved by it give me great hope and joy.
Astrid, I am in awe of you. You are so intelligent, so earnest. I will watch this video over and over to grasp the full depth of what you are saying about language and mythology. I am also in awe of the writers of this episode who not only invented a new language but a new principle by which a language may be constructed. What you have put before me has my head spinning.
Brilliant closing comment! Gilgamesh builds that boat and / seeks out strange new worlds...
This was genuinely informative and beautiful Astrid. Thank you for sharing, can't wait for what you'll have installed
Sokath, his eyes opened!
I’m not autistic but according to a psychologist I dated and lived with for nine years, I’m on the Asperger spectrum. I have seen the episode Darmok a few times and it remains one of my favourites. I think you just explained why. I had never realized that I myself constantly try to understand the world outside and how to communicate with it-and why sometimes, my best efforts (not just at communicating) fail.
Thank you!
Sokath, his eyes uncovered
As soon as you explained the Tamarians' way of speaking, I realized how well it fits with current internet culture. A lot of us find it easier to connect with someone over a piece of fiction than over something like emotions or ideologies; it's sort of become the norm. We communicate via narratives and allegories. We might even literally go so far as saying "like when character A experienced this and that" in everyday conversation. Very cool video.
I don't think it is just internet culture. Historically well educated people of different backgrounds found it easier to communicate through references to classical literature. Think of how we communicate about things like computer "viruses": we use metaphors such as virus, worm and references such as Trojan [horse]. Orators through the centuries would use references to folklore, mythology and literature in their rhetoric talking of odysseys, describing colleagues as mercurial, foes as wolves in sheep's clothing, talking of the die being cast or the crossing of the Rubicon.
Some of this is in-groupism, but more often the use of such references is because they are a much more succinct way of getting across a very particular point, a very well-refined semantic, to the person or people they were addressing. In that way modern meme culture is not revolutionary but evolutionary to a long-standing form of rhetoric.
Wojak, his skin red and eyes filled with tears
pepe, comfortable in a blankie
Our world, as it were, is informed by memes.
Isn't an emoticon the simplest form of allegory?
@@swedneck Dr. Jimes Tooper, his mind blown
Growing up i always was able to see myself in doctor who and is the reason its stuck with me so long. So much of me is built from thousands of hours hyperfixating on the doctor and their maneurisms and social interactions obsessing over their morals and feeling seen when no one else saw me. I rarely do something without thinking of the doctor and rarely have a conversation i cant tie into doctor who somehow (something that has caused me trouble in the past). I dont know where im going with this so ill just say that this video means a lot to me and is so well put together and i absolutely love it ❤
I dont know how much of this comment makes sense or if its appropriate at all ive had a rough day im sorry
So glad it spoke to you ❤ this is exactly why I talk about this stuff!
first of all...I feel u... I also write (much longer, and much more confusing) such comments xD most of the time, just for me. To write it of my hugr.
But one thing I want to know... How the heck does the doctor got u in trouble???
I mean, our entire discord channel thinks in quotes...omg...we r tamarians
@@AskanHelstroem How do you experience something new if every concept is meta referential?
An important part of doctor Who is change. The Doctor changes, now and then, a new body, new mind, new relationships, not so different adventures and a simple philosophy, it was always a Kid's show, it teaches things about life. We all change as we grow and sometimes we want to be someone totally different, but, like the Doctor, the most basic part of us, our root morality, stays the same, even grows stronger. The original doctor was a bit of a spoiled jerk, by the time we get to Max, the doctor's morality is set, but then comes Jodie and a totally different perspective and an overload of morality. I think the evolution of Missy is also about the evolution of the Doctor, he has loved the Master for a long time, but much like his own shadow, his own darker, inner self. Missy is allowed to be weak as the Master never was, and the Doctor in allowed to share her weakness and find long buried beauty. Aren't we all like that?
There's something familiar in the way you communicate. This was absolutely wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing.
Me too
Me three
This is beautiful. It reflects my own experience with folklore, Star trek, this specific episode, and discovering my own autism. This understanding of communication, of storytelling... It so resonates with my own understanding. And listening to you speak about things you find beautiful is, to me, beautiful.
Thanks for bringing us all together, one step at a time. Spock was my guide in childhood and his eyebrow raise 'Fascinating' about human life, amongst other things, offered me a doorway to understand myself. Cheers me dear!
thank you for this analysis, you perfectly put into words a feeling i've had deeply, of the disconnect in communication with others and the importance of shared stories. I've cried many times at star trek, and while Darmok wasn't ever my favorite episode, you've definitely shown me its importance. Also that point about having anthropology as an interest because we're learning how to be a person.
8:10 - Absolutely brilliant connection you made here. I don't have autism but I've played Magic the Gathering for two decades and I've befriended several people with autism through the game. The game becomes like a cultural and referential bedrock that helps people communicate with one another.
Thank you for this. My son has autism and I am learning to understand him more every day. I love your videos. Keep up the hard work.
I just found you tonight on IG and your videos are a breath of fresh air in a smog-filled metropolis. Thank you.
Boy, I really get what you mean about Picard’s recounting of the Epic of Gilgamesh incorrectly , because that is exactly what I thought at the time - because I too care about the myth very much- But if you may be mistaken on that point… On the other hand, your perception of fandom in the way fans communicate to each other through cosplay, kabuki, and obscure references, that only they can get references to the stories in the characters that means so much to all of us Trekkies, Truly blew my mind and opened it to an entirely new idea InVision on the culture… Thank you!
8:48 - 9:05 the most beautifully woven together piece of wordsmith wonder that I have ever heard. Thank you.
Hey, first video I've ever seen from you and I love the analysis you did here. Darmok was always up there with my favorite episodes of Star Trek and legitimately has the ability to make me cry because the Tamarians' desire to form a connection and communicate, even to the point that their captain is willing to sacrifice his life, is just so deeply human, and their inability to do actually do so is so relatable.
One way I've always been weird compared to normal people is that I've never really been all that much of a "music person" but I've still always appreciated it's ability to convey emotion, often much more so than words to the point that the words themselves are often unimportant or unnecessary, and the same is essentially true of the Tamarian method of communication. I hope that including a link to another youtube video is alright and doesn't cause this comment to be blocked, but here's a link to a song about the story of Darmok and Jilad (written in the style of a Tamarian, of course) that you should really check out because I think it's such an effective melding of and demonstration of the ability for both music and the Tamarian style of contextless metaphor to do what all language was intended to do at it's most basic, to connect with someone else and share that emotion. It's actually a music video too that has some absolutely incredible stop motion work for a youtube video that makes it worth checking out on it's own.
It ends with five words on screen that summarize the meaning of the story of Darmok and Jilad, the episode "Darmok", and so much of the human experience that always really get to me, "arriving separately, but leaving together."
ruclips.net/video/Jyrwlez9Lmo/видео.html
Thanks to anyone who actually took the time to read all that.
Thank you for getting it, Astrid. For me, this has always been the most powerful of all the Star Trek myths which are always rich with mythology. To share a common story is somewhere near the heart of all communication and connection. "I think, therefore, I tell stories."
Thank you for sharing your insights and poetic heart.
Seven of Nine was always the most relatable character for me. She had emotions but she didn't get human culture.
Who really does? ☺️
Maybe only Tuvok for me (if even, but I still highly admired Data and SoN, while definitely being able to get along well with SoN's highly autistic demeanor despite not being able to relate to her. Not surprising that I don't relate to them considering that I don't consider myself to have ASD at all. I just get along oddly well with such people.
she also was the most capable of the bunch
she got shit done while the rest threw pajama parties
@@bobbobson6290 Well, they did all wear pajamas. 😄
I related to Spock from the beginning and when watching re-runs a admired this character even more in different ways. I also related to Data and 'Voyage' definetely became my favorite Star Trek series when Seven of Nine came up. She was the Spock and the Data that were missing. I relate to them everytime I feel isolated, not being part of aything and taking the view of an outsider.
I love the way mythology highlights the subtle distinction between truth and facts. You put a razor edge on this.
Darmok is one of my favorite episodes. Ironically (or perhaps not?), they predicted the rise of meme culture, of which ST:TNG became a primary wellspring people drew memes from. (I only have to say, "Data and Lore, in the hallway" and you instantly know I'm talking about words that are ordered ambiguously.)
Incidentally, I was "Mr. Spock" as a kid, so I totally grew up with Trek-as-metaphor. Which is probably why I liked Darmok so much, because Dathon was me. Like you, the weird guy, trying to be understood. And now Trek has kind of become a meta-metaphor.
(And you cannot tell me that the Thermians were not autistic, by Grabthar's hammer.)
That was SO COOL. Oh my goodness. I loved everything you said about mythology being retold and the teller becoming part of the story - I do theater and I feel the same way about new performances of plays.
I'm not a Trekkie (yet) and I'm (probably) allistic but I'm very into fandoms and I really do love when fandoms talk in allusions and really enjoyed your reflections on communicating through allusions in Star Trek and real life. Really really loved when you demonstrated it by going through a list of literary references (thank you for the context captions!!). The literary allusions communicated so much more than new words could have done on their own. You put entire epics into a single sentence. I. AAAAA. Will be saving this video.
I actually felt like the second have of Gilgamesh was sort of meant to be the beginning of Gilgamesh taking the lessons of Enkidu into his life.
In the first half, Enkidu is tricked into the human world, and it's kind of spoken of as if he's done something you're not supposed to. It's a taboo or some barrier you don't cross. But, he did. And as a result, he found someone who loved him (even platonically) in a way that he was willing to die to protect.
In the second half, as Gilgamesh mourns, I forget exactly what it is that the old hag says to him, but I believe it's something to the effect of "did you love him, or did you love what he provided you?"
When she tells him "only the sun crosses the sea" and he makes his promise to cross it, I always felt like that was him saying he was going to do what Enkidu did and grow beyond the limits he was handed, but on his own terms.
Ultimately, Gilgamesh is a meant to be a sort of tourist attracting pamphlet to show how cool his city is above all of his neighbors, but I like to think the writers were at least trying to tell a story with more weight to it than that. That the humanity of our ancestors was translated into the stories they told each other.
My most anticipated video of 2022
that part about fandom and finding your identity through stories resonated with me so much... i have never known how to connect with other people directly, through my own experience. but pointing at a character and saying "look, that person is like me" is currently the closest i feel i can get to being understood. maybe that's why i have been creating stories, a mythology of my own mind in a way, since i was little... it's the only way i can understand my own self as well.
Wonderful stuff, Astrid! You talk well and communicate better! I have often tried to persuade (cajole, enrol) people of the power of Sci-Fi as it takes (often) ordinary people and puts them in extraordinary situations to see what happens! Your words just after seven minutes are exquisite: "Star Trek is such anthropology fan-fiction. It's all about observing culture from the outside and I think that's a very relatable thing to people who have always felt like outside observers of human culture"
Wow! This is incredible. Darmok has always been one of my favorite things in all of television. Your unpacking of it was fascinating and moving. Thank you for giving us your thoughts and feelings on it. You’ve got a new subscriber.
This is what makes your content so fascinating. I could listen to your ruminations on Star Trek and literature & life every day and never be bored. Thank you.
Yes that was one of the very best episodes. My daughter told me that they watched that episode and discussed it in one of her university classes
Thank you Astrid. It's very rare for me to hear others discuss their struggles with "how to person". The star trek episode analysis was just the cherry on top ❤
I only got my ADHD diagnosis two years ago but I also totally relate to being a huge fan of a thing and communicating with people through fanhood of things. I also love psychology and Star Trek.
just as Picard felt the need for a dying Dathon to understand his parable in that moment, he too understood the relevance and significance of what was happening: two cultures, two different people, trying to establish a common frame of reference, using story to create story. beautiful episode, wonderful video Astrid. Picard and Dathon at El Adrel
Wow, OK, I don't know how I stumbled across this video, but I'm sure glad I did.
What a fantastic video and such a deeply passionate study of that story.
Just wanted to mention that you are here, what I call a definition of 'articulate'. Choosing words and structures of sentences with such accuracy to the aim of what you're trying to communicate. Such command of language! Makes one transfixed to listening to you.
I also find your musings fascinating and familiar. Thank you!
One of the rarities... a beautiful human being on the inside and on the outside. And also intelligent... and also a Scifi fan... come on guys... gotta love that last part! I wish her well, prosperity, and grace.
Love this video. Have always remembered this episode of Star Trek as one of my favorites too because communication and the difficulty but necessity of it has become so essential to my worldview too. Accurate communication is something we kind of take for granted, but I marvel at just how much miscommunication happens that sometimes isn't even recognized by both parties.
This episode shows just how important context and full understanding is that depends on both parties two way focus instead of on just their own.
I wish more people would actively think as deeply as you discus about communication and learn more and more skills for proper communication, but sadly many seem oblivious and intent on moving the opposite direction.
Science Fiction made a big difference to me. My favorite author was Robert Heinlein. Read Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh mistress and Time Enough for Love and you will see three books that had a profound effect on me. The Dune series and works by Isaac Asimov affected me too.
I wanted to be like Maureen when I grew up.
Solid Gold choices there. Thumbs up.
Thank you for this Astrid. Because of your youth, you may not realize that one of the effects that television had on culture was to further ingrain in most people an expectation of what "normal" behavior is. Before television existed, there were other social forces that did this as well, but television advanced this expectation much more than other social phenomena. In the early days of television, there were far more side characters that were in some very noticeable ways "odd". Obviously the main purpose of this was for comedic and dramatic effect, but it was also considered normal for many people to be "odd". When I was growing up, many of people of the older generations had either not watched much television or hadn't watched television, and they did not expect everyone to be what we might now call "normies". This doesn't mean that people of these older generations were necessarily more accepting, but they were at least more aware. In older television shows, often it is the main characters that are atypical, such as Lucy in "I Love Lucy" or Ralph Kramden in "The Honeymooners". Obviously the audience is expected to recognize that these characters are atypical people, but the audience and the other characters in the shows _expect_ that it is normal to encounter many atypical people. I find it interesting and illuminating that many mythological characters are not at all what modern people would consider neurotypical. In my opinion the bulk of ancient Greek deities, heroes, and antiheroes are almost defined by the ways in which each are divergent.
Achilles and his rage, for example (?)
@@williamchamberlain2263 Great example William Chamberlain! In addition to bouts of rage, the Iliad depicts Achilles with what we would now call manic depression, where about 2/3 of the time he won't even come out of his tent or interact socially at all, and 1/3 of the time he'll come out and battle so hard that the Greek side always gains ground on those days. The Greek soldiers never knew ahead of time which kind of day it would be regarding Achilles' participation.
This longer format video served your topic well. Thank you ☺️
"I am Vincent in 'Pulp Fiction', his hands wide at his sides." That would refer to the meme of him turning around in confusion. Now when me or my friend text each other half of our conversations have gif images to reinforce or replace sentences.
"Picard, his palm on his face."
I love your work and insight. This was one of your best. And yes I’m old enough to vividly remember that episode when it first premiered.
Back again to listen/watch this in its entirety, and I am once again blown away. This is the video which brought me to your channel, one of the few times the algorithm has done me a great good deed. I am repeating myself but I do not care because what I am about to write is so true. You seem to express doubts about your communication skills and I am wondering how early this video is in the history of your channel, because as I have followed you and watched many more of your presentations over the past year or two, I am continually impressed with your growing and seemingly natural talent as a communicator of complex scientific facts and stories to people like me whose only scientific tool is curiosity and whose foundation in scientific knowledge is limited, to say the least. Thank you for all you do. You have single-handedly given me a better understanding of how autism affects people while providing compelling, informative, content related to many aspects of science and scientific discovery. You are a bright star in the sometimes dark universe of RUclips content which is overpopulated with foolish, deceptive, negative, narcissistic, and just plain silly content creators. You brighten my day every time I catch a new video on your channel.
This is beautiful. Thank you for exposing me to so much information about myself and the world.
My most Favorite of all star Trek NG episodes
This was a very interesting video. I had quite similar thoughts when watching "Darmok", although for me it takes on other meanings than neurodivergence and goes into the philosophy of communication and a kind of chomskian linguistics, when we speak, it is always through some kind of shared game/context/reference points. This episode is something that bubbles up in my mind repeatedly over the years.
I keep watching this over and over and over again. It helps me to remember what is important.
I am so thankful of finding this today. Building a boat on the edge of the earth is such a powerful image and brings me a degree of consolation. Thanks Astrid.
SO GLAD you did this! I'm a neurodivergent Trekkie who LOVES this particular episode. I'm also a storyteller who is writing my memoir.
I am a 37-year-old father from a small town in northeastern Brazil. I have no idea how or why the RUclips algorithm brought me here. It was very strange, but I am extremely grateful because I loved your video and your personality. Consider yourself embraced! Peace! 🤗
Thank you, just found this video, the best I've seen about autism and the entire penumbra surrounding it, I was reduced to tears.
Thank you, Astrid, for this video. I loved everything about it. It spoke to me deeply, in words I have trouble finding for myself. And I cried for all who struggle to communicate and person, but also found true hope.
That is the most beautiful string of thoughts strung together, I have ever heard. Thank you for sharing that ❤
I was already subscribed, so I hit the little bell thing. RUclipsrs are also really into ringing the bell for some reason. I think it has something to do with a fairy getting its wings, but I could be confused.
This video is absolutely beautiful. I knew when I saw that episode there was a reason it has clung with me ever since. You have perfectly explained it, and done so in a way that seems uniquely "you" in all the right ways. Thank you, from a new subscriber.
I always sort of viewed the Darmok story as a planet of aliens that speak jive, which often is metaphors within metaphors, and they often would change over time, much like slang does, or cockney.
Films like "Airplane" often depict people speaking mid 20th century Jive with regular people, and its pretty funny.
I also recall an old 1940s cartoon 9tho I can't remember if it was by Disney or Warner Bros) in which a character is narrated entirely in Jive, but in the literal sense depicted in the imagery while telling the story, and when he's saying "I can't cut the mustard" which is an idiom meaning "I can't achieve my intended goal/result" but depicts the cartoon character literally trying to cut mustard on a plate and failing at it.
However in Star Trek, they never made this commentary on language using humor nor comedy, they shifted it into a focus on the usage of language and ideas, and cultural differences, and made it more meaningful, and moving with a well written ending that's impactful, and philosophical. In some ways its like an Aesop Fable, but without animals, in uses Aliens and a Star Ship Captain to convey a kind of moral lesson at the end, and depicted the seemingly backwards alien culture to actually be highly advanced, wise, and high ideals of integrity, such as self sacrifice for a cause towards the greater good.
its not surprising as to why people dislike religion, and prefer to look to Science Fiction, such as Star trek, as a sort of reverse Mythology that looks to an imaginary future for inspiration, rather than an exalted past of heroes, or saviors, or Golden Ages.
But alas, you also have shrewd people who use that exalted/mythological past for political gains, and it works (or they use SF to create a sect).
I always loved that TNG episode and how the references had a positive meaning (because, after all, it was Star Trek), but at the same time I had a nagging feeling that it's the same kind of references certain political parties use to spread a message that's everything but positive.
I know... I'm a party pooper...
Your script was immaculate. It's refreshing to hear someone speak so fluidly with intended words rather than by stumbling over words that don't mean exactly what the speaker wishes to say.
Gosh, that TikTok hurt my soul, though.
Astrid and Laura, watching Star Trek! I love you (and this!!!) so much friend!!
Old Video but thank you algorithm.
I always use data throwing Crusher overboard on the Holodeck as an example for understanding the concept of humour but not the social context/timing required. But Darmok basically nails the desperation of trying to be understood when your way of communicating is so different from those you try to talk to. Guess there's a reason why I'm a sucker for "two stranded people (who may be enemies) have to figure out how to communicate to escape"-type stories. "Enemy Mine" or Stargate's "Unas" come to ind
Same.
✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻🖖🏻🖖🏻🖖🏻
Darmok was and still is one of my absolute favorite episodes, right up there next to Inner Light
I remember Darmok. I was just thinking about the other day. It has stayed with me all of these years, and now I understand why. I am beginning to suspect that I might be neuro divergent, it would explain so many things about me and my life. And your explanation is brilliant and lends understanding to why that episode still comes to mind, the inability to communicate. Communication is such a vital part of life and it's always been hard for me. That and connecting with people. Well, now you've gone and made me think!
I have learned over the years how to be me and to be a friend. I'm 70, it's good I've learned something. Your presentation speaks to me with clarity, I understand what you are saying and it certainly resonates within me. You're very intelligent and interesting. Thank you.
That chain of metaphors you used at 8:48 was simply gorgeous
Thanks Astrid your video was exceptional and moving. I was reminded of the French show Astrid who has Autism-I have enjoyed many of your videos recently- Looks like you are constructing a self to navigate the world- the hall of mirrors, the looking glass self, Plato’s cave, the hero journey- Have you ever done Shananic journey work- I found it very helpful to reach deep levels of the self and wise spirits that inspire and teach
Easy to speak but hard to communicate... boy can I relate. Darmok really got me thinking too. What is communication actually? why do we do it? sure, to organize mainly but there is a deeper level. somehow there is a desire to let others know what we think and feel beyond the need of survival and we try to convey those thoughts and emotions via sounds, gestures, facial expression and so on. i pondered so much about this. we can never be sure that the other person really gets what we are trying to say. we can never know if they accurately receive the information we where trying to send, if they feel what we felt, when we said XY. To me our current form of communication is like a futile evolutionary attempt on thought transmission. idk if this makes any sense to anyone but me but maybe it does.
and yeah "how to human"... sigh... i gave up on that. what are we anyways? I kinda felt like I emulated personalities of characters from shows and movies i love, mixed with my own quirks and over time those emulated personalities became part of me. "For every person I've tried to be there's another ten inside" (KoRn). now i simply try to be. i dont care anymore if anyone gets me or if i come across weird nor do i want to be perceived as human. i am human after all. at least i guess so. so there really is nothing to try. nobody has a damn clue what tf we are doing here and what it means to be human so nobody can tell me and ultimately i dont need to know to be.
Pardons for going a bit off the trail, but I'm reading your comment over and over again and it got me thinking. One of the highest points of my life concerning communication was in an acting workshop and the guy running it told us the best actor listened to everything their partner said and felt and I took that to heart because I always felt I missed something in conversation with anyone I talked to and ruminated on an important detail I should've picked on. Even now, talking to a longtime friend, I hope I pick up on what they're trying to tell me and what I should say in return because the disconnect of understanding we have with each other is the biggest reason so many of humanity's problems persist.
Astrid on the computer when the You Tubed.
Great analysis of Darmok.
The TNG that brings tears for me is The Inner Light. What a thing to lose one's life, live another, and somehow have to explain it upon returning in what seems to be decades later and while you are grieving the loss of the "new" life.
Love the earnestness about mythology and science fiction!
You were one of my first TikTok subscriptions early in your time there, and I resonate a great deal with your descriptions of your interests and challenges. Your honesty and vulnerable strength of character inspire me. It reignited my own journey into understanding my own challenges with a new focus, but I've not had success finding nearby people who can help me better understand my own neurodivergence and the challenges I've struggled with throughout my life. Acquiring a diagnosis has been especially challenging given my age (late 50s). You've given me hope.
Well done video! I wholly related to your idea of being outside looking in, and have always realized my interest in Psychology and then Anthropology is a means of learning how to "people", as well as appreciate different cultures. I'm looking forward to watching you expand and grow your skills into longer format videos.
Hope to see more stuff like this from you
Well, this was absolutely amazing.
I'm unfamiliar with your channel, I know youtube suggested this video to me at some point, and I've had it on 'watch later' for an age. I added it to one of my narrative playlists that I'm writing, to see what you had to say, and like... Wow. I know I'll end up listening through a few more times over this process. But, thank you for recording and sharing this.
Enheduanna, expelled from her temple;
The holy cedars dug up by Alexander.
I followed the words of Enki! Where is hope?
A Raven returns.
Great video! You have a nice voice:)
3:54 "...I've always found it really easy to speak and very very hard to communicate". This resonates soooo strongly with me as a fellow ADHD+autist.
Also, I just found your channel and half your videos seem like just the kind of thing I could see myself rambling about to my fellow NTs, ahah. I instantly queued dozens of clips because the topics seemed interesting AND novel. Insta-subbed. Tjenamors från Sverige!