@@JessieGender1 both KT and our oldest child have ADHD, we would be very interested in seeing anything on that topic in the future. Which is not to imply that a personal connection is necessary for interest, of course.
I've never been diagnosed, but I identity hard with Bashir. Especially the crushing loneliness of over-compensating in social situations and then being disliked for trying too hard.
What's funny is one reason I always found Data and Vulcans relatable and clearly autistic is how I always read them as experiencing emotions and even expressing them, but in a non-standard way that everyone else didn't see/ignored. Futurama even summed it up (as it related to Data) with one of Bender's lines: "As a robot, I don't have emotions, and sometimes that makes me sad." It always confused me when people were like "why isn't Data expressing a feeling in response to this thing" when I was like, Look at him! He's obviously upset!!! Which obviously is also an autistic experience! The number of times I've been told I'm not expressive or am too closed off or not performing an emotion correctly is absolutely uncountable at this point.
Oh yeah. „Well, you do not look happy!“ „But I am!“ When I open a great present, when I enjoy music, when I am obnoxious to the social surroundings. I NEVER saw the Vulcans and Data as without emotions. And tbh I always thought it was a joke to describe them as such when they clearly reacted emotional and tried to act empathetic, but also with a logic behind it.
Yeah people always say vulcans are emotionless but in cannon they experience emotions way stronger than humans, they just dont show them due to their culture. In a similar way autistic people often feel emotions more intensely and some hide them away
As someone also on the autism spectrum, the "always assuming ill-intent in others" part was pretty relatable. Even now I sometimes worry that my friends don't like having me around, and only begrudgingly accept my presence.
Those feelings - that others had ill intent towards me and that my friends were _at best_ only just "putting up with me" or at worst only *pretending* to be my friends to *set me up* - almost led to me committing suicide. To this day I have to consciously remind myself when I walk past a group of people and they suddenly burst out laughing is that it's most likely because one of them said something funny as part of the conversation and they're *not* laughing at me.
Me too. That's because of trauma, imho (trauma related to social interaction and other people is incredibly common - occuring in nearly 100% of autistic people, to the extent that some diagnostic markers of autism are also trauma symptoms). It can also be rejection-sensitive dysphoria (since there's a lot of overlap between autism and ADHD symptoms, and the two conditions are often comorbid), although for all we know, RSD is caused by early interpersonal trauma, too. Tbh though, I usually have a problem with neurotypicals assuming ill intent of me. I'm continually amazed at the number of people who interpret someone being socially awkward, isolated, depressed or low-energy, or overly passionate about a topic in the worst possible way, ascribing the least generous motives they can. When autistic people presume ill intent, it's a defense mechanism based on our limited social information access, and often past experience. When neurotypicals do it... I honestly don't know what it is, other than an accidental source of interpersonal and systemic disenfranchisement (I literally lost a job thanks to it).
certain simple wording such as "hey" with extra y's make me feel so bad, i hear it in my mind in such an annoyed way and with basically my entire sense of self worth coming from others it just really hurts (tho the whole sense of self worth coming from others is prob more the bpd part of me lol) what a combo
This was an interesting video it certainly was heart warming that the Data actor understood the positive impact that he had for people with autism, he was an important role model for me in my life.
@@wolf1066 That's what I love about Star Trek, the subtext. Personally I don't like things preached to me, I want to learn and figure things out for myself. We all know what some episode are about, but it is done in an organic way that makes sense within the Trek world. I think it also helps people realize their biases and think about them in a different way, and easier for younger viewers to understand.
I still remember when I tried to talk to my friend about struggling to learn how to write autistic characters and she responded with "All your research is wrong. Autism doesn't work like that, silly. It doesn't cause troubles with communication and reading body language. It just makes people geniuses in one specific area. Like math or art! I saw it on TV". Better representation in media is needed, like, right now.
the thing about characters like data and spock is that the people around them don't behave as if there's something "wrong" with them for being who they are. their differences from the people around them are framed as a genuine resource and benefit to the community. i think barclay's arc shows how exposure to a different kind of person can help a community understand and support other people when they turn out to be different, too. the enterprise crew was able to figure out how to be better friends to reg (and to give him the support to excel and achieve) because they already knew how to interact with someone who was different. that's why i think it's important for those people on the spectrum who can to come out and interact with the community. because the crew could ask data questions and find out how someone like him perceived the world around him, they learned how to bring out barclay's value. reg went on to do great things because other people believed in him, and those people learned to believe in him because someone taught them how. that's what representation does.
I had this growing up in a way. My family didn’t think anything was wrong with me and my interests were applauded and encouraged. Outside the family was a completely different story. To those people I seemed odd, arrogant, and standoffish. Despite my ability to mask I still mostly try to avoid other people, because I never got over that.
I always thought Barclay was treated like shit by the crew. He didn't get any of the respect or pity that Data did, and they got annoyed with him in a way they rarely did with Data.
@@Theomite the same can be said about how many characters respond to Spock in TOS, often explicitly refusing to entertain his POV, unless it is to explain why that is BAD. Though this may fit with then and current reality, and it is used to express why this is the wrong way to go about it, it kinda shows that humanity was far from the evolved ideal many think it portrayed.
@@Theomite I felt they got better with Barclay as TNG went on, and then he sort of turned into a joke again in Voyager, despite also being instrumental in contacting them.. I guess Barclay is divisive among neurodivergent Trek fans
@@Theomite Yes, he was. At first, at least. The reason being that his differences to the others in the crew weren't obvious. You just have to look at Data to know that he's different, so you go in with the assumption that he's different and have more patience than you'd have with someone you expect to be "normal". That's the same thing with all disabilities that aren't immediately apparent to people. They get quite annoyed when that person with the disability doesn't react in the way they expect, but usually show understanding once they learn about the disability. BTW, @ everyone: the Doctor in Voyager was treated very much like someone with autism. On the one hand the crew understood that he was different and gave him a certain leeway with his eccentricities but they regularly got to a point when it would be too much for them. I think that portrayal comes closest to what people on the spectrum experience. Yes, folks will show patience, but only to a certain degree. Which is understandable. They have their own life with its own worries, it's hard to add someone else's problems to your own.
We need more love for Odo! The word "changeling" itself comes from medieval European myth; various cultures had stories of babies being sneakily exchanged for fairy children, who were often described as slow or uncommunicative. "Changelings" were, of course, neuroatypical kids, who obviously weren't diagnosed; they were often feared and abused. Odo's story is an update or a reclaiming of the changeling archetype as allegory for autistic people. His compulsive desire for order, his outsider perspective on "solids", and his hyperfixation on crime are shown as strengths in his career as a constable; in a way, he's a savant thanks to his shapeshifting skills, but the traits that define his character are relatable and aspirational to viewers that share those traits. He's not as cold as Data, and not as desirable as Seven; he's a deeply anxious, awkward outcast whose inner strength comes out time and time again to save the Quadrant. In my opinion, he's the only true successor to Spock in all of Trek, and possibly my favorite character in the franchise.
Oh shit I never made that connection! It's right there!! It's sometimes shocking (but welcome) when you actually see him become emotionally expressive.
indeed, and "ways to tell a changeling" also involved many autistic traits like demanding things be neatly grouped together, or laughing at "strange things", or talking earlier in life than they were "supposed to".. although probably many different conditions were all regarded under that label back then
Also, shapeshifting itself - The shapeshifter God Proteus is the old man who never lies; so like Odo they share a common personality trait with people on spectrum - many tend to be honest to a fault and simultaneously have trouble dealing people who lie (like Ferengi scum). Also I think his name comes from Greek word "eido" - which I think means to observe.
Odo was truly great. His backstory, complex feelings in dealing with a world that misunderstands and fears him, long and well-crafted character development, the banter and rivalry with Quark... He would have stolen the show if the rest of the main cast of DS9 hadn't also been so well-written.
@@Yootzkore To me Odo does steal the show but maybe because he is my favorite DS9 character lol. Rene Auberjonois did a fantastic job of acting through the prosthetic mask that I forget he wears it.
juilian bashir has to be one of my favorite neurodiverse people; his whole arc can be considered an allegory for people on the spectrum who were forced into CBT to become "normal" by their parents
I knew literally nothing about autism when I watched DS9, I think I felt a faint chime of recognition resonating but didn't know what it was. But seeing those clips now I know I'm autistic and more attuned to seeing it in others, it really hits different. I should rewatch DS9.
When I was younger, I was compared to both Data and Spock, and when I was asked which Trek character I most identified with, I said Barclay. It wasn't until over a decade later that I started investigating the possibility that I was on the spectrum and things suddenly started to make sense. My diagnosis was inconclusive; they told me that if I was indeed on the spectrum it was at the very highest end of even the Asperger's range of the spectrum in terms of functionality. This made me question whether I was actually autistic at all, but I think the struggles I've endured are undeniable, however hard I may have tried to deny. This video made me cry. Thank you.
FWIW, the "high/low functioning" stuff is now considered diagnostically outdated and is no longer to be used. I too was initially diagnosed as "borderline high functioning Asperger's", but as I've grown up it's become clear to me that I was only "high functioning" because I was good at school and confident at talking to grown-ups. In most ways of adult society I am distinctly bad at a lot of these important tasks. Also, women regularly get rated as "less autistic" (as if the autistic spectrum were just a straight line - the light spectrum isn't!) than men due to biases stretching back to the original research, including some like Baron Cohen saying autism is an "extreme male brain" ("thanks" for making it hard for autistic trans people, jerk, plus the "comedy" from your son, blech). So that may have contributed to your "edge case" type diagnosis too. Nowadays, all autism diagnoses are collapsed under "ASD", and so anyone who was previously told "are maybe a little autistic" (like me) have absolutely zero reason not to just call ourselves autistic. Lots of us already chose to call ourselves autistic for political reasons for like a decade or more, because we knew back then that "functionality" wasn't single-dimensional; but now the DSM has even caught up with us, so it's not even a political statement anymore.
You've likely learned to appear normal over time, skewing the tests. I can tell you that I fit the definition of high functioning asperger's to a tee, I'm 57 and people have said they can't detect any sign if it my behaviour at all. But that's decades of learning to mask. Let a party go to long, and I'll be in a corner, destressing, talking to a potted plant, like Barclay. I play guitar, and that's a great way to hide what I am. When I run out of conversational steam at a party, the guitar comes out and we filk or sing folk songs.
@@Weaseldog2001 yep i have the same.. i relate to spock and data A LOT i’ve been diagnosed with ADHD and autism as a child and was retested as an adult.. but with the retest nothing came out because i mask so much it’s just not findable.. now doing my own research i defenitely relate with ADHD and for autism Aspergers specifically makes me go yes i relate to that.. i’ve also shown my mother and she also agreed as when i was a kid it was me to a t.. i didn’t understand emotion at all untill i realised i maybe should try to understand so i started paying more attention to others.. it’s gotten to a point where i can fake cry and in moments where i know i should feel something feel nothing at all..
I’ve learned recently (because I am) if you are afab we get overlooked a lot. Because female people are able to mask to a much higher degree than males are.
Related to adult diagnosis and struggling: I recently saw How to ADHD's RUclips vid "What it's Like to be Diagnosed with ADHD as an Adult," which is an interview with ADHD coach Brett Thornhill - Brett told his therapist that he couldn't have ADHD because he accomplished so many things, and the therapist said, "But how HARD was it?"
One thing I would like to add about Spock is how he didn't just show the way we can be judged for subdued or seemingly missing emotions (although that was more common with him being among the more emotional human crew mostly) we also saw from his interactions with Vulcans and the way they treated him for his increased emotions and less strict control of them how we also sometimes end up separated and isolated by the times we do emotionally respond for the reaction being too strong.
How many people here are Tired of the Response "But you don't SEEM Autistic!".... I Swear I Groan internally every Time I Hear it... Occasionally I Grow the Audacity to Answer with "Oh, So what should I do to SEEM Autistic then? What do you Expect an Autistic person to SEEM Like?" In the most Brash Tone of Voice I can Muster... Oh and since Big Bang Theory was Mentioned, The Writers Didn't Write Sheldon Cooper as being autistic or any form of Neurodivergent, in fact they Explicitly Stated Repeatedly that he Wasn't anything, just Smart and Weird... Meanwhile the Actor Playing him was totally trying to act Autistic for the role.... And when the series Started he didn't have a Lot of his Eccentricities, they kinda Slowly Piled up over time as the series went on
I like to answer with, "Yes, I've studied your people extensively and have learned to imitate your social mannerisms." It's funny because it sounds so alien but it's also true.
Unfortunately we've been misinformed about autistic people by almost every avenue. The good news informative videos like the one the one above help pick out what is accurate at least from the perspective of the host, who may or may not experience a different range of feeling to situations.
I had the same feelings! I thought the parents did the genetic engineering to make themselves feel better about the way he related to the world, coupled with an unwillingness to change themselves. It was easier for them to change Bashir and deal with a savant - after all, at least he's "smart" now, right? Bashir's story arc for this always made my heart hurt. I wonder what he would have become with non-prejudiced parents.
I finished DS9 about a month and a half ago, and with his storyline, I knew they pulled a Khan and genetically engineered him. When his parents were explaining the story it made me wonder
My autism was missed for a long time, and I spent a lot of time in gifted programs, where quite a few of us turned out to be neurodivergent later in our lives. I found Bashir incredibly relateable, both regarding those super senses and how everyone goes on about him being young and naive in the beginning. If I had a nickel for every time I've surprised people by being on the spectrum or older than they thought, I'd be able to buy enough ice cream to offset how bad it makes me feel.
I was in elementary school in TNG's original run, back when the grownups around me had never heard of Asperger's or ASD. Data was of course my imaginary BFF but I also identified with and loved Troi - she often became overwhelmed by other people's emotions or by something in the environment, and here's the fantasy projection, *this was seen as an asset and not a flaw and others took her concerns and reactions seriously.*
This is a great point regarding how autistic people are seen as having low empathy when very often it’s the opposite. The main reason why it’s so hard for me to maintain eye contact is because the raw emotion in people’s facial expressions and reactions strongly affects me.
yeah, I like Troi too, for that reason. Also, she was femme/feminine (according to the showrunners, that was apparently so she could be fan service, at least originally, unfortunately), but it was really cool that she was depicted as competent and powerful without her femininity being treated as silly or negative, or being pressured to take on masculine-coded attributes to avoid "being weak," especially because most "strong female characters" in mainstream(ish) media do.
@@sholem_bond We almost got a very different Troi…Crosby (Tasha Yar) and Marina Sirtis (Troi) originally had auditioned for each other’s roles…and as someone who has met Marina Sirtis in real life, I can kinda see why she thought she might be a good pick for the role of tomboyish hard-boiled Security Chief instead of Ultra-Femme Empath Psychiatrist. …she’s a football/soccer fan girl and swears like a sailor. XD
In the episode "In Theory", Data is dating Jenna D'Sora. She asks him to kiss her and he does, after which (when asked) Data lists all the various other things he was thinking about in that moment. To this day, I don't think I've ever related more to a "Star Trek" character than I did right then and there to Data.
one relationship I always thought was undervalued in star trek is the one b/w Data and Troi - they're so different, with Troi being constantly aware of everyone's emotions and Data having to work overtime to even perceive them, but the way they work to understand each other and find their similarities is so fascinating. I love their conversations because they quantify and break down social interactions in the same way - Data to understand and replicate them, and Troi to analyze and talk about them to her clients. I'm probably biased bc growing up my dad always identified with Data and my mom with Troi, because both of them are neurodivergent in very different ways.
I have always read Tilly as having ADHD and would like to point out that it's cannon Spock has dyslexia. Both of these types of neurodivergens have a lot of cross over signs with Autism along with torrents, PTSD, OCD and DID.
@@mandolinistry3207 there's a huge comorbidity between ADHD and autism, so it's quite easy for people with one condition to identify with people with the other as they may be more likely to have subclinical traits of the other condition.
I loved Barkley's role in Voyager. Such a great call-back. And the scene where he tracks down Deanna during her beach vacation? Priceless and so spot-on. He has no awareness as to how inappropriate he's being. He just needs to share his theory.
One interesting thing about Odo is that his difficulties with social interactions are not inherent to his species, like with Vulcans. The other Changelings seen in the series are not like that.
He looked th way he did because he always struggled with the human form. That was the reason for his difficulty dealing with 'solids'. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
and then remember his history, only one of the hundred cast into space as an infant, found by a sadistic humanoid scientist who experimented on him for decades. not a great beginning, eh? i'd be a little stand-offish, too.
I'm so glad you pointed out the issues with intentionally coded autistic individuals like Sheldon. As an autistic individual, I absolutely _loathe_ Sheldon; not just because his general dickishness generates dislike, but because I see him as being how media wants to represent someone like me: an overly smart standoffish individual whose misunderstandings of social norms warrants a laugh track.
My parents compare me to him. It's horrible. It is part of what caused me to distrust and detach from my parents. Now I have mild attachment issues, hooray...
Yeah, I see why you hated The Big Bang Theory. For me, the characters of Data and Sheldon cooper were always very close in terms of what they represent, but in TBBT everyone is deeply annoyed by Sheldon and his behavior, he is being laughed at. It's sad, I see where you're coming from. But in TNG... Well, I was always fascinated by how everybody on the crew of the Enterprise just loves Data the way he is. I mean, it would probably be VERY hard to work with a crewmate like him in real conditions, and sometimes we get a glimpse of that tn Star Trek. Data is also sometimes shown to be funny in his weird, clumsy way of a machine that doesn't completely understand humans. What I also love so much about Data is that his single greatest wish is to be like living people, to understand them, to be one of them, really. He tries and fails, limited by his programming, but still, step by step, he creates a better version of himself. He is also, unlike, say, vulcans, never smug or arrogant about his level of intelligence. I mean, the guy is literally 100 times as smart as the next smartest person on the ship, and he is still humble. From day one he is more human than many humans, even though it's not easy for him. And he genuinely cares. And people on the ship do everything to help him be what he wants to be: a person. He is in the same rank system as them, he wears the same uniform as them, he is not just a machine, he is a person FROM DAY ONE of the show. That's how you avoid evil robot uprisings. You talk to them like you talk to people. Cheers to Data, the warmest, coziest, nicest character in Star Trek. P.S. This guy also has a cat.
I always looked at the hatred many have toward Sheldon is largely due to his being so unconscionably abrasive in everything he does. He's the stereotype of the arrogant, gatekeeping asshole nerd in addition to portraying a lot of the negative stereotypes of autism. Like, he reads so much like the guy who's a rules lawyer min-maxxer when playing RPGs, a guy who'll incessantly complain about things like "that's not how that arc went in the comics, how dare they call that movie Civil War!", while also sneering down at the person getting interested in comics because they watched the MCU: all the worst stereotypes of a nerd. He also reads like the worst stereotypes of a neuroatypical, in that he shows no apparent empathy, is aggressively requiring of specific rituals to his behavior to the point of disregarding how it negatively affects others, and doesn't seek to understand how society functions. He expects the world to conform to him and his desires, rather than seeking to meet halfway, or even learn how to react and interact in the world.
As an ADHD person I love the representations of neurodiversity in Star Trek. I recently rewatched "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" I cried when Bashir was arguing with his parents I felt like the scene was speaking just to me. It felt great to be represented in a media I love.
I'm pretty sure I'm autistic and this is why I've always related so hard to Spock, Data, and Seven. That's also why I hated Dr Pulaski so much, what with all her conflicts with Data :/
I feel that for sure - I never liked Dr. Pulaski either because they kind of tried to make her like Dr McCoy to Data's Spock but it just didn't work bc she didn't respect him the way McCoy respected Spock.
@@mylahobbit1815 yes! It's like the writers didn't realise what made Bones so good. Bones teased Spock and Kirk but only because all three of them had been friends for so long and liked and respected each other so much. Pulaski didn't have any of that so she just came off mean. Not helped for me by the fact that if you made Data human but kept his characteristics the same Pulaski would be hella ableist :/
I always thought she was *obsessed* with Data. That one clip Jessie showed was very typical of their interactions and put me off to Pulanski immediately (she does it in the first episode she appeared in!) I feel bad for Diana Muldar because her character was so poorly written but the Data obsession bordered on disgusting. How do you even think of trying to humanize a character when someone else treats them like a lab rat?
Minor complaint: people often use neurodiversity to mean autism and autism alone. While autism is an example of neurodiversity there are other neurodiverse types that should be included like ADHD, Down Syndrome, Schizo spectrum disorders and arguably stuff like personality disorders. Eric Sophia on theor YT channel Curio has a video where they talk about how Spock is very relatable to them as someone with Borderline Personality Disorder because Vulcans are described as actually having overwhelming emotions which is why their culture revolves around controlling emotion
I have a hearing disability. It's not genetic, but manifested in infancy and progressed through my childhood. Doctors were able to stabilize the hearing loss surgically when I was 11, but were not able to reverse what had already taken place. As I have dealt with this essentially my entire life, I have adapted to it fairly well. When I was in high school, I received strong pushback from specialists who insisted I would need hearing aids and an auditory trainer in order to function as my education progressed. I was strongly opposed to this, but attempted it for a time before eventually refusing. One of the reasons I hated the idea was because of the othering effect it had on me, and the bullying I experienced from other kids when wearing either device. However, equally if not more of an issue were the myriad of small sounds of which I had been wholly unaware before being fitted for the hearing aids that I was suddenly bombarded with when wearing them. It was a sensory assault I was wholly unequipped to face and left me totally unable to focus. I... am feeling a great deal of emotions in response to this video, and I feel unable to articulate them, so I am fixating on this one particular aspect of the video to, in a very longwinded fashion, say that this has really resonated with me, and I am thankful for having been able to share this. Thank you, Jessie
I just realized data was my comfort character for so long because he’s autistic coded. I didn’t even know I was autistic when I was a kid but I could never figure out what was “wrong” with me
@@thedayjob With the caveat that it's a fictional character and I'm not a doctor, I think that Picard in TNG is, as a rule, emotionally distant from the other characters. In the sense that the seven series of the show represent a single arc this might even be described as his fatal flaw. He feels very comfortable in his own routines (tea, earl grey, hot). His interactions with children tend to highlight how difficult he finds it to intuit other people's emotions. He has very specific and focused areas of interest in archaeology, he is very irritable in situations he cannot control (see every Q episode). I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'm fairly certain there's even a couple of episodes where he's shown to have acute sensory input when it comes to the ship's noises or motions. There would probably be more examples if I though about it a bit more but hopefully you get the gist. Like I said, I'm not even 100% convinced of this head cannon myself, it's just one way of reading the character. All of these behaviours could simply be coincidence, or it could be that Stewart based the character on C18th British Naval officers and that profession tended to attract people on the spectrum, or that some of the writing staff were on the spectrum and wrote in some of these behaviours without thinking about it. It's death of the author stuff anyway as I don't think anyone intended the character to be interpreted this way.
This was wonderful. I always identified with Spock, Data, and Odo. Even my family knew I was basically Data. I thought at the beginning I might cry but I managed to hold it together... Until the end, darn you. Thank you for this video, Jessie.
As someone with ADHD, and a few other things I personally really related with Bashir. The way everyone found him so annoying especially early on really resonated with me. He would get so excited and just completely fail to read the room and say something that unintentially offended someone. He was just such a mood. I would have reacted the exact same way as he did when he met Garak.
Fun fact: The first time watching I was not aware that he was presented as annoying and could not read the room… NOW I understand how it was done but as a kid I even did not get social cues in TV…
Star Trek is one of my special interests and I've been studying and watching it since childhood. It means a lot to me and it's so expansive, which means there's always more to learn about it. I love talking about it and using the characters as examples like you do! My family discouraged my intense obsession with it because they thought I was wasting my time on something that wasn't real, they were extremely unappreciative of art forms of any kind and didn't like that I loved to draw and make stories. They've said that I was extremely unproductive whenever I drew things and always made me know that they did not like my art when I showed them. For me Star Trek is a paradise, a place where I can analyze things by watching shows, movies, cartoons, but also read about it in books and articles and comics! I grew up watching Voyager the most and heavily related to Captain Janeway and Lieutenant Tuvok, and then Seven of Nine when she joined the crew. I think those three characters combined sum up how I see myself pretty well
12:02 I had this exact struggle in middle school regarding kids not being able to shut up in class. I kept telling adults that I just couldn’t tune it out, but they just attributed it to my ADHD and told me I had to learn. It did not help that my therapist didn’t listen to me when I suggested I might have autism. It took until age 17 to finally be diagnosed
I finally learnt to name some of my own emotions when playing the sims in high school. I'd see the sim acting in a certain way, see their needs meter, and that would finally clue me in to the fact that when I act in a similar way, that relates to my own emotional needs. Loneliness, especially, is a concept I learnt through the sims - sure I felt it, deeply, before then - but the ability to say "oh, yes, I'm lonely" in relation to that? ...thanks sims.
Omg I do as well. My social meter is usually pretty low. But every once in a while it goes in the red and I need a bit more. It’s an awesome way to explain my needs to my husband and family.
After considering it a bit to myself, one character that won't necessarily spring to mind immediately I think could be read as being on the spectrum is Worf. I can't quite put a finger on it, and it's not just how he differs and relates to the humans (and other aliens), but how he relates to other Klingons. He doesn't quite fit their culture, as much as he idolizes it, which makes it difficult for him and even gets him exiled... twice! (ok the first time was a bit of a different matter but the second was all about his unwillingness to bend himself ot the culture). He's emotionally reserved, which contributes to his difficult relationship with his son. He's not percieved as unfeeling, but can absolutely be percieved as dour. And as I wrote this I remembered the part in DS9 where he moves his quarters to the Defiant. I'm gonna identify my neurodivergency with Worf now.
Barclay is controversial? I thought it was just accurate. Part of his whole arc is show how even characters we like (the ones that we people relate too) are _in the wrong_ for how they treat and perceive him.
oh i hated geordi so much for complaining about how barclay "is always late" and such, i related so hard because my adhd makes it so hard to be in time 😅 also it seemed just so socially incompetent that the others were not able to see barclays good will and good intentions despite this "little" being late 😂 i mean, respect is not only shown by being on time, "why don't they see the rest of him", it got me ranting 😅
@@ichsehnursoaus Yes! I loved when Guinan turned Geordi’s complaints back around and said basically, “If everyone around you treated you like a nuisance at best and a laughingstock at worst, wouldn’t you start being late just to avoid them all?”
He was at the time (iirc) seen by some as a 'fan insert', that his character may have been the writers making fun of the fans who are intensely into Trek.
"Feeling lonely and less worthwhile" is a sentiment that I think a lot of people on the Spectrum can relate to. I myself have missed on a lot of opportunities to interact with others because of my social anxiety. Even today, after living with it for 30 years, I sometimes feel anger, and even self-loathing, for being on the Spectrum because of the difficulties I've had from it. That I was weak or stupid for having those difficulties, that I should have been able to overcome them on my own, that I am not as worthy as those not on the Spectrum. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better if I had been born an neurotypical because then I would not have had that anxiety, that fear, that loneliness. The bullying, the sensitivity, the awkward moments, the meltdowns, all of it could have been avoided if only I was born differently. Then again, perhaps I would have been bullied anyway. I hope you are doing better these days.
Fascinating (no pun intended!) Thanks for mentioning the hyper-emotioanl side. I was only diagnosed this year at 32 and that was the most intense symptom for me. I have some others but what I've been in therapy and on medications for without having a diagnosis for years has been an outsized emotional reaction that caused problems in school and the workplace all my life. I've never come off as emotionless....rather, I've never been able to hide any of my emotions, and react to any stimulus at the drop of a hat. So it's cool to see that part brought out :) I had no idea until very recently that dysregulation could be part of autism.
I want to thank you for this labour of love and intellect. As a Black Trans Lesbian diagnosed with the system as it was understood in the 1960s and a different medical understanding in the 1980s, and again in the early 2000s I ask that when you revisit this subject please address the near-complete absence of minority neuro-divergence, how every role you and countless others share are always White or designed in such a way they are coded as White-like.
I wanted to add my voice to yours on this. From everything I've seen, it's much, much harder to get an autism diagnosis for someone who isn't white and male. What is more, I had an enormous trouble finding any information about women on the Spectrum, and next to nothing about autistic people who weren't white. I agree that we need more depictions of minorities among the neuro-divergent community (I am not sure if that's the right phraseology, so forgive me if I misspeak.)
If by "minority" you mean "non-white", off the top of my head there's Worf, Tuvok, B'Elanna Torres and Michael Burnham. Potentially Geordi too, if you count social awkwardness as non-neurotypicality.
@@TokyoXtreme When I was about the thought occurred to me that if an alien civilization was observing us, they would surely assume most humans were Chinese or at least Asian. I have continued to wonder at the tiny fraction of Asians portrayed in all the visions of human colonization across the galaxy, with no explanation. Does a future COVID wipe out all of the Asian civilizations?
There's a way I recently figured out how to describe neurodivergent social anxiety: you know when you suddenly think about breathing or walking and are aware of it? Even worse when you're walking down stairs and this happens and this awareness makes you anxious because it doesn't feel natural and safe anymore? That's how I tend to feel with social interaction. I am hyper aware of the rules and the theories but I'm on this different level of how naturally it comes to me.
I didn’t realize other ppl feel this way abt stairs but that happens to me a lot. it’s like the mechanics of it suddenly feel complicated, and all I can think of is breaking my neck
are you familiar with strange-o comedian Stephen Wright? my favorite joke(?) of his is this: how do you feel? well, you know that feeling when you sit in a chair and then lean it back on to two legs? and then you tip a little too far back then tip a little forward, then back, then forward? i feel like that all the time!
Beautiful and wonderful video, as usual! I have raised a child on the Spectrum, and when I recently re-watched the TNG Episode "The Offspring" it just broke me down, letting 15 years of emotions loose that I'd not been facing before. I cherish my daughter for who she is, and that scene when Lal tells Data she loves him, it brings me back to the first time that my child actually came up to me and gave me a hug on her own accord. Sheesh, I'm crying again just thinking about it all. Thank you for a wonderful video!
I myself have Autism and I love Star Trek and heavily relate to Tilly, Rutherford, Data and Barclay but even Deanna Troi remember when she had a mental breakdown when she kept hearing the music over and over in her head I kept pretending that I was talking to her saying that I know what she was experiencing
I think Guinan is also in the spectrum. A different flavor, ‘cause some of us really can mask. She is really empathetic and warm but can also do things like stabbing the guy she despises with a fork. That and the 23 husbands could get her misdiagnosed as BPD. She appears to be very social but is not really. Her engagements are not bilateral, she keeps her distance and mostly listens to others that know very little about her. She listens to the universe and is so sensitive that she can feel changes in the timeline... But this may be me projecting, so don’t mind me I’ll be here sipping my tea and listening to the conversation. 😝
Guinan isn't human, though, she just looks it. I suppose if your lifespan was substantially longer than any of the other mortal species around you, you might be a little detached as well, knowing how transitory their lives are in comparison to your own.
@@Theomite Agreed. I think Guinan is more typical for her race - a race of long-living aliens dedicated to hearing other's stories. I never thought her difference was due to being on the spectrum but because she IS actually different from humans.
@@AngelaRyanXX In a way you are correct - gender IS meaningless. Meaning one shouldn't make any assumptions about someone else, just because of their gender.
@@Theomite without even having an opinion on this take, I’m not really understanding how not being human would count Guinan out? This whole video is about mostly non-human characters being the most relatable to autistic fans.
Oddly enough, once I realized that the reason why I was struggling with DISCO is that Sylvia Tilly was reminding me of myself, I stopped being nervous and scared of the show. Now, I look forward to it. That realization came because a friend of mine talked about how much he dislikes Julian Bashir because Dr. Bashir reminds him of himself. Growing up, my favorite characters ended up being Seven of Nine and T'Pol. I should add that I was glad that they made it clear that Seven may have grown, but she's still putting on a mask. I want to add that Silvia Tilly is now one of my favorite characters :). One thing I would like to add is that I, at least, am constantly haunted a bit by my own failings including not wanting to admit to being autistic for a long time and saying some bad things as well as saying absolutely inappropriate things from time to time that have hurt others.
I find hostile fans' different negative reaction to Tilly compared to Spock and Data highly telling of cultural sexism, also. A lot of these people have SO much less time for Tilly than they did for the other two.
@@kaitlyn__L I had to start down voting a lot of those hostile fans' videos because of their toxicity so that they didn't come up on my feeds and stopped going on social media a while ago, so I didn't know that they had such a negative reaction to Tilly; though, it doesn't surprise me. It's definitely rooted in sexism. As much as I love T'Pol and Seven, they were played for sex appeal a lot while Tilly isn't.
Hoof-in-mouth syndrome? Yeah, as a neurodivergent I've had that my whole life, and it has been met with a startling lack of empathy or understanding. It haunted me too for most of my life. But now that I know I'm on the spectrum and since I've come to understand what that means for me, if people want to misinterpret me and take offense b4 helping me understand why I'm being offensive, I no longer have time for them. And NT's call us the unempathetic ones... Also Tilly RULES!!!!!❤
Relatable.. i have ADHD and autism and a good example of a similar thing to this would be Michelangelo from the ninja turtles.. as a kid i hated him because he was what i am and i didn’t want to be that hyper kid that is often seen as annoying.. so because i didn’t like myself i also didn’t like the character.. luckily now as an adult i didn’t have any issues.. i actually really like Tilly because i relate to her now.. i see myself in her but since i don’t hate myself anymore and have accepted myself i actually really like her because it makes me feel like i’m not alone.. it’s the same for the vulcans i relate to them because i repress my emotions.. but when it comes trough it comes trough like a thunder strike
Thank-you SO MUCH for this video! My beloved 9-yr-old grandson is on the spectrum, and seeing this through the lens of Star Trek has helped me understand his world so much better. You are amazing and you have done so much for all of us with this wonderful video.
@@matthewmcneany Yeah. Watching this, I went from "this is me, this is exactly me" to "nope, that's not even remotely me" and back all the time. At this time (60 this year), I'm pretty certain I'm somewhere on the spectrum but have never had any official diagnosis one way or the other.
"Autism is the next step in the evolution of humanity." Thanks for that shout-out to The Predator. That entire movie dehumanized autism as well as the rest of humanity. In fact, it dealienized aliens. I don't know even what that means but, damn, that movie was awful.
One of Australia’s foremost experts on Autism (who’s been falling badly out of favour with the Autism community, especially the Autistic Trans community) Dr Tony Atwood suggested that line in the episode of the bio-pic documentary series Australian Story about him some years ago. I expect the movie got the line from him, unless there’s an earlier example. Of course it doesn’t take much logic or knowledge of history to see that Autistic traits have always been present in humanity and that recent increases in diagnosis is just due to changes in diagnostic criteria.
@@baynemacgregor8441 I suspect that autistic people have been responsible for many of the great advances in human civilization, simply because they thought about things differently from other people, and focused on things intensely enough to understand them in depth and detail. There is also a strong correlation between autism and the possession of savant abilities.
This really hits home. I was beaten by my ASD Dad (who didn't know he was ASD) because I drove him nuts because I am ASD...which is a trait I inherited from him
At 59, I've only recently been diagnosed as Neuro diverse. Weirdly, I've never had social anxiety. But when I had to interview multiple people daily about rough times (joblessness, homelessness, etc.) I couldn't put it down at the end of the day and I ended up having such intense mental distress that I was put on administrative leave until I could prove that I'd had a full mental and physical exam. I'd been begging for months to do a different job because it was breaking me, but no one listened until I actually broke. I have hyper acute hearing which means I often hear things I wasn't meant to, and finding noise canceling headphones I could afford was a huge help to me. Also, being moved to statistical analysis has been a blessing.
Well now I'm a complete sobbing mess. Thank you for this. I need to send this to some friends and family members because it says things I need to say better than I could.
Thank you for this video. I am autistic. I have been self diagnosed and on a very long waiting list for a formal diagnosis for about a year and a half. I bawled my eyes out at this video because I have been watching star trek with my parents from the original series over the last 6 months or so and we're on season 5 of tng right now. It's my first proper run through the show and I identified so much with spock and data in different ways. It warms my heart that in all the other shows there's going to be yet more characters I will relate to as well. Star trek means so much to me because I am sharing the experience with my parents and my autism is "still new" so to speak. I am sharing how I relate to these characters with them and it helps them in turn to understand me more. We go through life not always having that. Others misunderstanding us as much as we can misunderstand them. It is so moving to me when there's opportunity to better understand. What I love most about these characters is that they're accepted for who they are. Accepted and loved by those around them. It is moving how the actors as well love us that identify with their characters. Thank you for making this video.
I grew up watching Star Trek and I can honestly say that the character I relate to the most would have to be Odo. I can see a LOT of myself in him simply because of him being Odo and not because of a very specific reason or character trait. I was diagnosed with high-functioning Asperger's Syndrome at 4-years-old despite being born with it. My father was diagnosed at the same time as myself at 39 even though he too was born with it but hadn't been formally diagnosed. My sister's Asperger's is so mild that she wasn't formally diagnosed by a professional until she was 12 or 13. My biggest problems growing up was, and still is to this day, sensory overload, socialization, and properly communicating what I'm thinking into words without messing up with the proper voice tones that go with a certain phrase or sentence. Which leads to me constantly asking the person I'm talking if they understand what I'm saying and also trying to cope with the immense social anxiety that goes along with me speaking to people outside my immediate family and my best friend. Silk feels like slime to me and I can't stand it, I love anything soft, fuzzy, and furry, and I enjoy listening to a LOT of folk, metal, and Gregorian styled music because they help calm me down and empower me too. As a result of all of that, my parents got each of us a dog or puppy that connected to us and trained them to be our service dogs. I got mine 2 years ago just before my ex and I broke up. And it's because of my dog, Hanzel, that I have been able to better cope with my day-to-day life and to also help me sleep at night because my extremely hyperactive brain gives me acute insomnia because it won't shut down even when I'm dead tired and need to get some rest. Being autistic isn't easy, that's for darn sure. Can be a blessing and a curse at times too. But even all the struggles of my life, I can honestly say that I wouldn't change for it anything anytime soon.
You didn’t talk about how VERY different girls present as autistic. Tilly, man, Tilly is Autistic, she’s my hero! ADHD & Autistic fo lyfe! P.S. you’re better at mirroring because you are a girl. EDIT: YAY 25:00 IN YOU TALK ABOUT MY TILLY!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Growing up in the '80s, before there was TNG (and to a degree, even after), Spock was God. It's strange seeing other minorities have their first representations be caricatures or stereotypes that wound them because for us, Spock wasn't defamatory: he was aspirational. *He was what we wanted to be:* An alien in the future on an advanced spaceship who could proudly display his rational nature while simultaneously exploring strange, new worlds? And with green blood? Fuck, that beat anything humanity had to offer! Spock and Egon Spengler were more or less idols to people like me, and their strangeness only made them more alluring because it meant we were not alone. Even though most of us didn't know what autism was, if it had an embodiment, a physical manifestation, it was him, and that gave us a feeling of hope. When Nimoy died in 2015, I lost my shit. It felt like I had lost a father figure, even though I never met him. To know that he wasn't going to be there anymore--that there would be no more OG Spock ever--was more than I could take. I can't watch the funeral scene from WRATH OF KHAN anymore, even now, it still hits too hard.
Probably the most insightful analysis of a TV show I've ever watched and inspiring as well. Having myself a daughter in the autistic spectrum I was very moved by your first hand experiences.
I have never been diagnosed, but the strong emotions, social anxiety, sensitivity to noise, and not maintaining eye contact are all things I have seen listed in the spectrum that I personally have. As I have aged I have become something of an agoraphobic too. The last time I left the house it was to vote. Before that it had been several months. And it doesn't bother me in the least. The conditions so many people are expressing discomfort with during quarantine are every day life to me. I was puzzled how strongly they reacted to it. Quiet contemplation doesn't bother me nearly as much as a restaurant full of people.
I agree! Being stuck at home really hasn't been much of a challenge for me either. The last time I went out, it was only to drop off my ballot and get some boba. Didn't even take 30 minutes, but I found it to be plenty before I wanted to go home again lol. I relate to a lot of the experiences that Jessie outlined for ASD (especially the noise sensitivity, intense emotions, and cold appearance), although I've never been diagnosed with it. I do have ADHD though and I know they have a high comorbidity rate, so I suppose it's entirely possible.
Once a week, to go grocery shopping WITH my partner. That is how often I have any desire to leave the house anymore (and I really don't desire to do it so much as I kind of *have* to do it). But I do understand the difficulty so many people are having in this time of solitary lonliness, and I sometimes wish I were the kind of person who could 'push back' against this very abnormal way of existing because for most that's exactly what it is. Nobody should be forced to live like this who doesn't want to (no I don't believe a less than 1% national death toll to be sufficient enough reason to keep everyone on involuntary house arrest), but I do choose to live like this because I can and want to. We are anomalies of society as is everyone in some way whether obvious or not... And for better or worse that's okay ☀️
Oh, my life in a video. I was a young, undiagnosed, autistic child when in September of 1966 I first "met" Spock. He changed my life, and in many ways helped save my life as well. When I was 22 my girlfriend at the time tried to sit me down and explain that I was neither Vulcan, nor an Android. From there I had to pattern emotional context and facial expressions for long term storage and implementation. Yes, that was the task I set for myself. She was pleased and surprised beyond anything I had anticipated, and I of course took a bunch of significant steps toward being more human. Sadly I was not able to make an adequate study of humor, and that is still largely lost to me. In 2013 I was finally correctly diagnosed as autistic, and suddenly so much of my life came into a level of clarity and understanding I wish I'd had decades earlier. I am grateful for your post, thank you so much.
My wife told me when she was in middle school during TNG's run, the response of her classmates every time she opened her mouth was, "Shut up Data." She did end up with an ASD I diagnosis, so it's no surprise.
I'm over 50 and was recently diagnosed with autism, which explains a WHOLE lot of things in my life, like feeling more of a kinship with Data and Spock than I did with the humans around me. Thanks for this video: it means a lot!
One of my aspie/autistic parts is the whole excessive emption/emotional expression thing and throughout my life I have been constantly accused of being "overly dramatic" and "theatrical", like I'm faking it. It's only one of the ways I was gaslit as a child and it still hurts. I still do all I can to suppress my emotions, to deny them, to not share them with others. And I beat myself up about it when I fail.
After my son was diagnosed on the spectrum and I learned more about neuro diversity and I've often wondered if I too was also on the spectrum. I grew up before Autism was widely identified as it is today. I'm a huge trekkie and was surprised to find this video, even more surprising - all the characters you listed data, spock, seven, barkley, odo - were my favorite characters in the shows. Without knowing why, I found them relatable and interesting, and I'm left wondering now if I related to them because of many of the reasons listed in the video. Beautiful take on neuro diversity Jessie!
I got into the star trek fandom with Discovery Season 1. It's late, but I'm so glad I did. I enjoyed Discovery S1, but I started to love Star Trek with TNG. I'm a big fan of TNG. I haven't watched other iterations, but I plan to at some point. In any case, to answer the question: as an autistic person, I identified most with Data, but also Troy. I'm very empathic (Maybe not as much as Troy, but still) but always lacked the skills to deal with that empathy and emotions (like Data). So yeah, I'm a Data/Troy combo. ^^
I just got to this. Thanks for making it. My two favorite characters in ST are Barclay and Tilly because they were so obviously (if unintentionally) neurodivergent. Seeing especially the Discovery crew just completely accepting her was so heart warming and great.
I didn't start watching Star Trek until 2020. Data has quickly become one of the most relatable characters to me in Trek. Trekkies I know often compare me to him too, but I think I'm more like Barclay tbh. I am incredibly awkward and have been bullied throughout my life. Thank you for making this video Jessie.
I've had many conversations with a friend of mine who has little concept (and less tolerance) of those with neurodifferences; it's taking time, but he's slowly coming around...
This is such a fantastic video, thank you for doing this. I'm diagnosed ADHD (big chonk of autism in my family and I recognise a lot in your descriptions) and have definitely seen myself in so many characters in Star Trek. Sensory hypersensitivity is a nightmare with both autism and adhd. I haven't seen anyone mention Tom Paris here but after being diagnosed I rewatched Voyager and while I did not recognise myself in him totally I did recognise definite ADHD tendencies I have. Like the need for new experiences as well as having intense interest in extremely niche areas. Barkley used to annoy me no end, after I rewatched tng recently I recognised how Barkley unknowingly sets off a fear/panic response in people around him because he is terrified of them that I absolutely know I did as a teenager. When I was a kid I used to sneak out at 11 or later to watch Star Trek on my own, I absolutely found sci-fi such a sanctuary.
I still find Schultz' Barclay one of the most uncomfortable characters to watch and in particular Hollow Pursuits one of the most difficult episodes of Trek to watch. I think this is principally because of my concern that the way he is perceived within the show is that way that other people see me. Reflected in the character I see more extreme behaviours that I probably exhibit myself. I suspect I'm not the only one.
You're not. Writing shit with my friends so I could figure out their reactions was a thing I did and well like he seemed like everything I was always terrified I was doing.
@GozerTheTraveller Im interested to hear the "love part." Barclay for me have stood out as a character I can enjoy because he express concerns and are put to challenges I can relate to, even the inital mistreatment of the crew in Hollow Pursuits, which I know is sad, but it's also an reality and as you said our sympathies was always meant to be directed towards Barclay. That being said I also understand it may be problematic how he is forced to reject parts of his personality and how it is potrayed as something positive to do. Strictly speaking, this didn't hit me and in hindsight it maybe do with that I also can relate to that, being a person on the spectrum who escaped not just into uplifting passions, but into acctual substance abuse. But I respect others feeling different.
@GozerTheTraveller Oh yes! This also resonate with me! Im very passionate about my job, but it's also hard because it often puts my social skills to the test... and my impostor syndrome, being the perfectionst that I am. As you said it would be easier not to do it all, to find something easier, and I have many times thought to do that, mostly when I face new challenges (and there are a lot.) But then I would miss out on something I love to do. Who knew Barclay would be such a inspiration! :)
oh gosh, i was bawling at clips at the end. i just started voyager for the first time and i also bawled during the first episode, where tuvok was reunited with janeway after being with the maquis and his very matter-of-fact delivery of how gratified he is to be able to be there to give counsel to her again, it belied the ocean of feeling underneath the surface and gosh i'm crying again
I can't believe I JUST found you! As an autistic person also obsessed with Trek this resonated strongly with me. As a nonbinary person, I'm sure your other content will also hit home. Can't wait to watch more of your videos and THANK YOU for this one in particular!
I had to stop the video and break down and cry because I totally relate to around 21:40 when you talked about being so traumatized by kids pointing, whispering behind and laughing at you, that to this day you still think people are doing that when they're probably not. I'm still forever trying to erase those thoughts from my head! 😢😭😭😭😭😭
Your videos always 'affect' me the most, like with happy tears. Thank you. Spock showed me how to use my brain and logic to navigate this irrational world as a kid, but also that friendship and love have value. Data helped me learn about others from all over and navigate the world through college, and to always strive to be a better person. Odo helped me realize that a long brutal history has led to the ultimately unfair world we all live in, and that a desire for order should never sacrifice happiness or hurt others. Seven helped me navigate the complicated work place and the world as an adult that has tremendous power imbalances, but we all have to work together to survive. T'pol was just damn sexy and we shared the same resigned attitude/acceptance (disdain?) for dealing with humans in general with all their flaws, and looking at the bigger picture -- the worlds beyond my own, or this one.
Your section on Bashir really hit hard for me, because I was in the furthest behind group in school at first... before suddenly catching up. So Siddig's performance about how they didn't give him enough time always hits close to home as well. Well, it wasn't quite as Bashir said, I picked up the written word faster than most kids, but almost everything else had "delayed development", by a few years. I specifically did struggle with categorising basic pictures of a house and a tree and a dog so, yeah, lots of specific examples in that episode were like whoof.
I really appreciate this video as someone who is a high functioning autistic I really resonated with so much of what you said throughout this video and I'm hoping to use this video as a way to explain clearly show how I feel or see the world to people close to me that don't have a great understanding of my diverse condition. Thank you
This is a fantastic video! I've watched Star Trek since 1966 (when I was eleven). But I did not know I was autistic until 2013 (age 58). I don't think kids being diagnosed as being autistic was a thing when I was a child (or at least not something my parents knew about). Spock helped me a lot at age 11 feel okay about not showing emotions, which I wasn't even sure I had because I had buried them so deep at the time. It's been a fascinating journey (pun intended) since 2013, when I finally had a name for my way of being out in the world. I have always worked to be the best version of "me" I could be. But since 2013 I've had a better understanding of my strengths and weaknesses... the "cards I was dealt". Fun fact: It was at a Star Trek convention in L.A. in 2013 where I told Brent Spiner I had High Functioning Asperger's Syndrome.... the first person I told other than my sister. He said "You hide it very well." or words to that effect... a testament to my efforts over the years (which you mentioned) to adopt behavior patterns that hide my true social anxiety. I will be talking to Brent via Zoom later today (Marina too) thanks to Galaxy Con and then Jonathan Frakes on Sunday. One thing I will do is thank them for being part of something that has helped me be okay with being me. I'll mention your video too, which I'm going to share on Twitter with them shortly. Thanks again for the great work!
I've discovered your channel through Council of Geeks and I'm so happy to have found you on here. I've been watching various videos for the past couple days that you've posted, exploring your journey as a trans gender person and hearing about how that affected you, and a few of your looking a life through a star trek lens and I became instantly in love with you as a person and your channel and what you do. I am grateful for people like you and will be regularly watching your content moving forward. I am replying to this video in particular because of all the videos I've seen on discussing autism and becoming more understanding and aware, this is the one I feel best encompasses the words I've been searching for in helping others understand what I go through as an autistic person. I have learned to mask my autism to conform to societal norms enough that I don't immediately put people off or give others the impression I struggle with neurotypical actions and thought processes, and it was really beautifully put on how you addressed that. This will be the video I send to everyone who I want to understand my spectrum better, to understand me better. Thank you for this. To answer your closing question, I identified with nearly every single neuro divergent character in Star Trek and I hadn't truly realized all those years I fell in love with the series that a huge part of that love came from being able to self-identify with characters and being accepted by others within that universe and hearing you express that possibility really made me love this franchise that much more. Also, while I identified with most of the neuro divergent characters, as I've often had moments of feeling like a robot, not seeing the sense of acting on emotion impulsively, and the like, but personally I feel I can relate most with Odo and the Doctor. Odo is hard to put into words just how much I see myself in him. It took me a long time to discover this about myself and the changeling species as a whole shed some light on it which put me on a path to discover it, but they are quite literally gender fluid lol. But for real, they took on the shape they wanted to be and didn't inherently have a concept of gender. I've discovered with a lot of turmoil in finding myself that I am agender. With how I have seen Odo, I see him as an entity who does not identify with gender or biases towards any pattern of behavior. He simply saw things as they were and tried to understand why they were. He even opened up that his appearance was chosen to fit in but later came to adopt his commonly known form as his identity. I've always felt like my body was just a vessel that others could interact with and my appearance was only maintained to fit in and my real form transcended what we know as bodies. I relate to his distrust of solids and inability to truly understand or conform to their standards if he didn't see the sense or reason in it. I'm very blunt, direct and can seem cold or distant to new people. It's not until I've had some time learning about how the person I'm interacting with deals with various interactions where I can understand how to be more sensitive to my approach with them. I've also always enjoyed turning chaos and putting an order to it. I am very meticulous and observant and saw a lot of myself in his interest of observing others at a distance and his investigative tendencies. For many years I closed myself off and didn't let others see the real me. The way he felt when he was afraid to show Lwaxana his true form was the most relatable experience I've had with the series and it was really beautiful to me how it was handled with such delicacy and it was empowering when he later grew comfort in letting that side of him out to others with more confidence and certainty with himself. The Doctor, while I was never quite as arrogant or devoid of sensitivity as he was in his earlier days of activation, it was how he was viewed as inconsequential because he was just photons and data, a program, that in essence he did not matter or was legally a life form. It was how much the crew at the start treated him as a tool to be used and gave no consideration of thought into how those thoughts or actions would impact him. A lot of my life I felt like I didn't matter and didn't really feel like I existed with how others looked at me, treated me like I didn't belong and those who even bothered with me just wanted to use me. When he went on his journey to be recognized and a valid person with a life to reclaim his rights to his art, I felt those in my own life with wanting to much just to be accepted and seen as just like any other person. Like the doctor who didn't present the expected nuances and intuit of social cues, seeing his growth in being more understanding of how his actions impacted others gave him an openness to understand that while he was yearning to be seen and heard as a valid individual, that he himself has not shown that level of respect and care and that is something I have learned I needed to work on myself. It was unfair of me to expect sensitivity and fair treatment from others when I myself was not being sensitive or fair to them. It's helped me to become a better person to reach the same understanding he had to face. There were also elements of his limitations that I related to like being confined to a space, a space in which if he tried to leave he would quite literally disappear. In many ways, I felt stuck in life and could only live if I stayed to myself. The only socializing I would do is if people came to me. Seeing that freedom he was given with his holo-emitter and witnessing the bravery to leave what he once considered his safe space helped give me courage to put myself out there, to take social risks. It also helps me see myself in him that he had a lot of common ground as a person, but that he was the same kind of bald that I've reached. There is not nearly enough bald representation in the media I consume; especially in the video games I play lol. Thanks again for everything.
I headcannon Malcolm Reed from ENT as neurodivergent. I choose to say autistic specifically because I'm autistic, but I could see him having ADHD too. Either way, he outright says he hates small talk, and one could make the argument that weapons and such are his special interest (he's always so excited about things blowing up- like the episode where Travis convinced him to go to movie night by telling him that a lit of stuff blows up in the movie and he was like "you promised me explosions" while they were waiting for it to start)
My 12 year old son has FINALLY been diagnosed on the spectrum. We’ve known for years, but he was always “boarder line”. Your video is the only video we’ve found that can explain to him what autism is and how he can be successful and have friends. Thank you so much for this!
One problem I, an autistic person myself, have had with the prevalence of the savant trope is that it implies we (autistic people) can only be useful to society because of savant abilities. As someone who struggles at a basic thing like getting my first job while in my late twenties and feels shame over it, that really makes feel like I don't belong. There are other factors at play here, including how my parents dealt with my autism, but seeing that existing mindset in media really doesn't help.
I don't know if this helps, but I was labelled "gifted" (after the first year of school had "delayed development" in all but reading), and even did some stereotypical savant things like counting small numbers of objects all at once instead of one by one.. and I still could never find a job! Turns out "I do really well on all the tests but I had 50% school attendance" doesn't impress any jobs, and the ones that I had a small chance with turned me down bc my grades were so high they assumed I wouldn't stick around >.> trapped in everybody's expectations, and unable to go to anywhere but unemployment payments, as I struggle with daily living tasks due to big executive dysfunction.I guess my crux is this, once you leave school, whether or not you were considered a savant doesn't really seem to matter..... >.> we all seem to burn-out in the same way if we didn't luck into some institution that worked with our needs (like going right into academia or something).
It also lets narcissistic people on the spectrum act like they are superior beings. This classmate i had called everyone stupid, including the professor. She was insufferable.
Well, this hit me in the feelings in ways I wasn't expecting. Thank you so much for making this video. As someone else whose (probable) autism is often camouflaged by my conscious efforts at masking; I always adored and modeled myself on Kirk. I know, not exactly the character you expected to see on this comments section, but for me, Kirk was (and is) the perfect role model- often isolated from those around him, yet driven by his own deep sense of compassion, and a stubborn refusal to give up or compromise on descisions of lofe and death.
I've got ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder), GAD (General Anxiety Disorder), and what used to be known as BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and am just very mediocre at just about everything. I'm very empathic and social, which goes against many peoples views of the spectrum as you describe, but the fact that I am high functional puts rather high demands on me which results in a lot of mood swings, anger outbursts and long term depression episodes. I often feel misunderstood and never really in my right element. Star Trek (TNG) was a great support for me growing up, and was my comfort zone when I felt lost, which was most of the time.
I have always related the most to Reg Barclay. I’m self diagnosed and wasn’t even that when the show was on its first run. What I was, as far as anyone knew, was a “problem child” evolving into a rude and awkward adult. That’s how I was seen and how I saw myself... as someone with potential (everyone has some after all) but so freaking hard to be around. I was bullied from somewhere in 4th grade until the end of high school. It did taper off but by then it took less to draw blood. Every inch of my was an open wound after middle school. Everywhere I went that I was known, someone was ready to close in... school, ballet class, church... I still have my faith, but teens are trash wherever you go and both they and the adults convince themselves that it’s not as bad as it is. So I had not one bully, but all the bullies. I was the go to victim for teasing. (I understand there is a form of PTSD related to this kind of thing... being in the stressful/traumatic situation and feeling unable to escape, for a prolonged period. I check the boxes for it.) So after that, I could only relate to Reg above any others. Data and Spock and even Seven were positively functional compared to my standard, and to this day, after years of trying to be “normal” as an adult, I avoid most friendships. I’m tired. I can’t pretend to be one of them anymore and since even my attempts to do so usually broke sooner or later... might as well make it now. Even when I managed to blend for a while, the awkward moments came, and bit by bit people would pull further and further away. I don’t have the energy to do it again... the fading smile, the exchanged glances they think you don’t notice, the hastily ended conversation. Even family is a joke, outside of my own small one (who I am very lucky to have... a husband and three kids). My mom and sister were always on my back for not realizing something was rude to say, for not getting things that hadn’t been explained or even told to me, etc. No one told me and I had no right to not know. I should have assumed. My sister even said as much. I thought it was foolish to leap to conclusions without some proof but she seemed to think I should just figure it out. So when karma smacked her ass she found out one of her sons was ADHD and the second was Autistic. Well, then. Did this make her a better sister? No, it made her impossible! The few times we’ve met since then she’s gone all soft voiced and patronizing... “Are you okay, Bee? Do you need to get away from the crowd for a few minutes?” Burn in hell, you missed your chance to pull that babysitter crap, Moose. Ugh. Possibly there’s a reason the attempts at being social don’t quite take. Ahem. Anyway... The point is, I have family on the spectrum but my five brothers are still Trump supporters (how? why? what?!?) and my sister talks to me like I’m a kitten with a head injury. And I have ranted far too long. Thank you for your time assuming you read it all.
I've only recently come to grips with being autistic myself. When I watched Star Trek as a kid (I wouldnt say I was a full trekkie but I do enjoy it), I was drawn to Data and Spock. Half the time, if a Next Gen ep wasnt about or didn't heavily involve Data my interest waned significantly. I want you to know how SEEN this video made me feel. Logic, intense observation, all of it...Thank you for making this video
I'm a disabled veteran and a single parent to a 7 year old who is pegged on the low end of the spectrum with ADHD thrown in for shits and giggles apparently. Everyday feels like day one and this shit is burning me out. Please tell me as long as I continue to love and support him things will get better. On the plus side he's a very loving child.
I always wondered why I love and connect with Tilly so much more than autistic characters like Spock and Data and you put it into words -- she isn't a savant!
Hey Jessie, loving Star Trek is a mutual. I submerged into it for similar reasons and we are the ones who drive forward empathetic responses to the world around us. I wouldn't have survived my childhood without Trek, and I certainly won't survive our current world without some form of escape!!! Cheers from a fellow Trans and Neurodivengent.
Great job and choosing this topic and explaining it so well. Not only do I work with children on the spectrum guy personally and my two young sons fall within that umbrella. I have been a fan of Star Trek for 30+ years and everything you mention makes total sense. The character that first help me relate to what I was going through as a teenager was the character Reginald Barkley I am new to your channel just discovering you yesterday and I love everything you produce. I have been binge watching your channel yesterday on a variety of topics.❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️💙💚💛🧡❤️💜
Definitely Barcley for me on easiest Trek character to identify as autistic from my perspectives as an autistic individual. But, for my money, the best autistic representation I've encountered in anything is Denise in "On The Edge of Gone" by Corinne Duyvis, a YA post apocalypse sci-fi novel (meteor collission). It's written by an autistic woman and the depiction of autism benefits all the more for that. It's that point, reading a book aimed at 15 year olds at age 32, that I encountered the first character in anything that I fully, truely, identified with, and I can't help but get a bit choked up at that, and a little bit angry that this sort of thing wasn't available when I was 15.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age and, talking with my therapist, I might also have autism. I'm to the point that I've self diagnosed as autistic (continuing to use the caveats of Might Have and Probably). I've always related most to many of these characters mentioned in this video so it's really nice to see them be shown as neurodivergent. Thank you for making this video and kinda helping me remember which parts of my brain are autistic and okay
I was very upset watching Barkley's privacy be violated. My parents would laugh along and I just felt so alone because that was how my OCD and ADD intersected into fantasy world fixation and escapism.
I raised 3 kids on the spectrum. We are quite close even with them in their 20s. They never fixated much on Star Trek, That was mine, but they found comfort and escape in Pokemon and other Anime like Naruto and Gundam Mobile. I think if I didn't have my mom, raising them would have been so much harder than it was. Thank you so much for this video. It makes me think about my friends in high school who were obsessed with Data, and what they may have been going through. *hugs* & best wishes!
I was first introduced to TNG as a lonely, undiagnosed teenager. Everything about data was like a punch to the gut. Every misunderstanding, every attempt his character made to be human was like looking in a positronic mirror. It's only now I can understand the beauty of data's character and I am so grateful for the self discovery that was triggered by star trek. Although it still baffles me that a show about space aliens managed to do a better job at unpacking my ASD than people with degrees. This video was amazing, thank you so much. ❤️
I was placed in interchangeable "Special Needs" and "Gifted" programs, since I was really bored in school, and never hesitated to let teachers know what I thought. One principal paddled me to "break" me of outbursts, until Dad said he would paddle the principal.
My parents were huge Trek fans while I was growing up, and I learned so many things that helped me mask better from Data’s questions and the answers he’d be given during the episodes. I lacked the understanding. I even learned the phrase “don’t look at me” from the exact clip you showed. I felt seen by him, even with the feeling of not being human I still struggle with daily since I don’t naturally understand.
I adored this video. As a kid I would have terrible tantrums if my parents decided to change the plan for that day, even if that plan had only existed inside my own head. For example once my plan was to watch a cartoon show when I got home from school and instead they announced they were treating my sister & I to a trip the swimming baths. Even though I loved the swimming pool I had a full freak out for the whole 5 minutes it took for me to process the change of plan. I still as an adult need to take a moment & a breath if my friends announce a last minute change of venue for a night out or something small like that. And if my friends spot that momentary hesitation I always seem to have to backtrack from their assumption that I'm sulking -when I'm not; I'm just processing. So yeah I can understand being stressed in social situations 😅 xx
I find I often mesh really well with people with autism because they don’t assume they know what I’m feeling and can be more direct. The most comforted I ever felt during a panic attack is when my autistic friend simply asked me what I needed. Didn’t need to understand, their support was enough. It seems so simple to me now, but it’s rare. I also have anxiety about keeping conversation going, so hyper-fixation can be a boon. I love to hear people talk about their passions. I can just relax and learn. Anyway, that’s why I think actually autistic people can be great communicators in many situations. Just need the right conversational partner or, in the case of a teacher or a RUclips essayist, the right audience. ❤️ Anyway, I really enjoyed this video.
what about ADHD characters in Star Trek?
I sadly didn't have enough time to do ADHD justice, but it's something I plan to do in the future. My apologize
@@JessieGender1 both KT and our oldest child have ADHD, we would be very interested in seeing anything on that topic in the future. Which is not to imply that a personal connection is necessary for interest, of course.
Basically a really smart person that can handle multiple task at once and thrives in a chaotic atmosphere.
I have ADD and this was very moving for me. It actually covers a lot of my personal experience.
Funny, I kind of read Tilly as ADHD (as an ADHDer myself).
I've never been diagnosed, but I identity hard with Bashir. Especially the crushing loneliness of over-compensating in social situations and then being disliked for trying too hard.
@NotaHero🌻of911 do you? Because nothing this person said was even remotely self-important
You might want to look into self diagnosis. It has changed my life.
"Infinite diversity in infinite combinations", as the Vulcans are fond of saying.
My model for affirming my existence.
What's funny is one reason I always found Data and Vulcans relatable and clearly autistic is how I always read them as experiencing emotions and even expressing them, but in a non-standard way that everyone else didn't see/ignored. Futurama even summed it up (as it related to Data) with one of Bender's lines: "As a robot, I don't have emotions, and sometimes that makes me sad." It always confused me when people were like "why isn't Data expressing a feeling in response to this thing" when I was like, Look at him! He's obviously upset!!!
Which obviously is also an autistic experience! The number of times I've been told I'm not expressive or am too closed off or not performing an emotion correctly is absolutely uncountable at this point.
Oh yeah. „Well, you do not look happy!“ „But I am!“ When I open a great present, when I enjoy music, when I am obnoxious to the social surroundings. I NEVER saw the Vulcans and Data as without emotions. And tbh I always thought it was a joke to describe them as such when they clearly reacted emotional and tried to act empathetic, but also with a logic behind it.
Yeah people always say vulcans are emotionless but in cannon they experience emotions way stronger than humans, they just dont show them due to their culture. In a similar way autistic people often feel emotions more intensely and some hide them away
I wish they didn't mechanize/medicalize Data's emotions and needs. The stupid emotions chip kind of ruined his entire narrative.
As someone also on the autism spectrum, the "always assuming ill-intent in others" part was pretty relatable. Even now I sometimes worry that my friends don't like having me around, and only begrudgingly accept my presence.
If it makes you feel any better, even neural typical people feel this.
Those feelings - that others had ill intent towards me and that my friends were _at best_ only just "putting up with me" or at worst only *pretending* to be my friends to *set me up* - almost led to me committing suicide.
To this day I have to consciously remind myself when I walk past a group of people and they suddenly burst out laughing is that it's most likely because one of them said something funny as part of the conversation and they're *not* laughing at me.
Me too. That's because of trauma, imho (trauma related to social interaction and other people is incredibly common - occuring in nearly 100% of autistic people, to the extent that some diagnostic markers of autism are also trauma symptoms). It can also be rejection-sensitive dysphoria (since there's a lot of overlap between autism and ADHD symptoms, and the two conditions are often comorbid), although for all we know, RSD is caused by early interpersonal trauma, too.
Tbh though, I usually have a problem with neurotypicals assuming ill intent of me. I'm continually amazed at the number of people who interpret someone being socially awkward, isolated, depressed or low-energy, or overly passionate about a topic in the worst possible way, ascribing the least generous motives they can.
When autistic people presume ill intent, it's a defense mechanism based on our limited social information access, and often past experience. When neurotypicals do it... I honestly don't know what it is, other than an accidental source of interpersonal and systemic disenfranchisement (I literally lost a job thanks to it).
😔
certain simple wording such as "hey" with extra y's make me feel so bad, i hear it in my mind in such an annoyed way and with basically my entire sense of self worth coming from others it just really hurts (tho the whole sense of self worth coming from others is prob more the bpd part of me lol) what a combo
This was an interesting video it certainly was heart warming that the Data actor understood the positive impact that he had for people with autism, he was an important role model for me in my life.
I especially liked how he was glad he wasn't aware at the time as that might have made him request things that would have ruined it.
@@wolf1066 That's what I love about Star Trek, the subtext. Personally I don't like things preached to me, I want to learn and figure things out for myself. We all know what some episode are about, but it is done in an organic way that makes sense within the Trek world. I think it also helps people realize their biases and think about them in a different way, and easier for younger viewers to understand.
I still remember when I tried to talk to my friend about struggling to learn how to write autistic characters and she responded with "All your research is wrong. Autism doesn't work like that, silly. It doesn't cause troubles with communication and reading body language. It just makes people geniuses in one specific area. Like math or art! I saw it on TV".
Better representation in media is needed, like, right now.
the thing about characters like data and spock is that the people around them don't behave as if there's something "wrong" with them for being who they are. their differences from the people around them are framed as a genuine resource and benefit to the community. i think barclay's arc shows how exposure to a different kind of person can help a community understand and support other people when they turn out to be different, too. the enterprise crew was able to figure out how to be better friends to reg (and to give him the support to excel and achieve) because they already knew how to interact with someone who was different.
that's why i think it's important for those people on the spectrum who can to come out and interact with the community. because the crew could ask data questions and find out how someone like him perceived the world around him, they learned how to bring out barclay's value. reg went on to do great things because other people believed in him, and those people learned to believe in him because someone taught them how. that's what representation does.
I had this growing up in a way. My family didn’t think anything was wrong with me and my interests were applauded and encouraged. Outside the family was a completely different story. To those people I seemed odd, arrogant, and standoffish. Despite my ability to mask I still mostly try to avoid other people, because I never got over that.
I always thought Barclay was treated like shit by the crew. He didn't get any of the respect or pity that Data did, and they got annoyed with him in a way they rarely did with Data.
@@Theomite the same can be said about how many characters respond to Spock in TOS, often explicitly refusing to entertain his POV, unless it is to explain why that is BAD.
Though this may fit with then and current reality, and it is used to express why this is the wrong way to go about it, it kinda shows that humanity was far from the evolved ideal many think it portrayed.
@@Theomite I felt they got better with Barclay as TNG went on, and then he sort of turned into a joke again in Voyager, despite also being instrumental in contacting them.. I guess Barclay is divisive among neurodivergent Trek fans
@@Theomite Yes, he was. At first, at least. The reason being that his differences to the others in the crew weren't obvious. You just have to look at Data to know that he's different, so you go in with the assumption that he's different and have more patience than you'd have with someone you expect to be "normal".
That's the same thing with all disabilities that aren't immediately apparent to people. They get quite annoyed when that person with the disability doesn't react in the way they expect, but usually show understanding once they learn about the disability.
BTW, @ everyone: the Doctor in Voyager was treated very much like someone with autism. On the one hand the crew understood that he was different and gave him a certain leeway with his eccentricities but they regularly got to a point when it would be too much for them.
I think that portrayal comes closest to what people on the spectrum experience. Yes, folks will show patience, but only to a certain degree. Which is understandable. They have their own life with its own worries, it's hard to add someone else's problems to your own.
We need more love for Odo! The word "changeling" itself comes from medieval European myth; various cultures had stories of babies being sneakily exchanged for fairy children, who were often described as slow or uncommunicative. "Changelings" were, of course, neuroatypical kids, who obviously weren't diagnosed; they were often feared and abused. Odo's story is an update or a reclaiming of the changeling archetype as allegory for autistic people. His compulsive desire for order, his outsider perspective on "solids", and his hyperfixation on crime are shown as strengths in his career as a constable; in a way, he's a savant thanks to his shapeshifting skills, but the traits that define his character are relatable and aspirational to viewers that share those traits. He's not as cold as Data, and not as desirable as Seven; he's a deeply anxious, awkward outcast whose inner strength comes out time and time again to save the Quadrant. In my opinion, he's the only true successor to Spock in all of Trek, and possibly my favorite character in the franchise.
Oh shit I never made that connection! It's right there!!
It's sometimes shocking (but welcome) when you actually see him become emotionally expressive.
indeed, and "ways to tell a changeling" also involved many autistic traits like demanding things be neatly grouped together, or laughing at "strange things", or talking earlier in life than they were "supposed to".. although probably many different conditions were all regarded under that label back then
Also, shapeshifting itself - The shapeshifter God Proteus is the old man who never lies; so like Odo they share a common personality trait with people on spectrum - many tend to be honest to a fault and simultaneously have trouble dealing people who lie (like Ferengi scum). Also I think his name comes from Greek word "eido" - which I think means to observe.
Odo was truly great. His backstory, complex feelings in dealing with a world that misunderstands and fears him, long and well-crafted character development, the banter and rivalry with Quark... He would have stolen the show if the rest of the main cast of DS9 hadn't also been so well-written.
@@Yootzkore To me Odo does steal the show but maybe because he is my favorite DS9 character lol. Rene Auberjonois did a fantastic job of acting through the prosthetic mask that I forget he wears it.
juilian bashir has to be one of my favorite neurodiverse people; his whole arc can be considered an allegory for people on the spectrum who were forced into CBT to become "normal" by their parents
I knew literally nothing about autism when I watched DS9, I think I felt a faint chime of recognition resonating but didn't know what it was. But seeing those clips now I know I'm autistic and more attuned to seeing it in others, it really hits different. I should rewatch DS9.
@@Shindai rember the um autsim speaks campaign about curing the world of autsim by coding development on a cur forcautsim
heh CBT
@@Haverlock mind out the gutter now, my dude
@@Haverlock Both are painful
When I was younger, I was compared to both Data and Spock, and when I was asked which Trek character I most identified with, I said Barclay. It wasn't until over a decade later that I started investigating the possibility that I was on the spectrum and things suddenly started to make sense. My diagnosis was inconclusive; they told me that if I was indeed on the spectrum it was at the very highest end of even the Asperger's range of the spectrum in terms of functionality. This made me question whether I was actually autistic at all, but I think the struggles I've endured are undeniable, however hard I may have tried to deny. This video made me cry. Thank you.
FWIW, the "high/low functioning" stuff is now considered diagnostically outdated and is no longer to be used.
I too was initially diagnosed as "borderline high functioning Asperger's", but as I've grown up it's become clear to me that I was only "high functioning" because I was good at school and confident at talking to grown-ups. In most ways of adult society I am distinctly bad at a lot of these important tasks.
Also, women regularly get rated as "less autistic" (as if the autistic spectrum were just a straight line - the light spectrum isn't!) than men due to biases stretching back to the original research, including some like Baron Cohen saying autism is an "extreme male brain" ("thanks" for making it hard for autistic trans people, jerk, plus the "comedy" from your son, blech). So that may have contributed to your "edge case" type diagnosis too.
Nowadays, all autism diagnoses are collapsed under "ASD", and so anyone who was previously told "are maybe a little autistic" (like me) have absolutely zero reason not to just call ourselves autistic. Lots of us already chose to call ourselves autistic for political reasons for like a decade or more, because we knew back then that "functionality" wasn't single-dimensional; but now the DSM has even caught up with us, so it's not even a political statement anymore.
You've likely learned to appear normal over time, skewing the tests.
I can tell you that I fit the definition of high functioning asperger's to a tee,
I'm 57 and people have said they can't detect any sign if it my behaviour at all.
But that's decades of learning to mask. Let a party go to long, and I'll be in a corner, destressing, talking to a potted plant, like Barclay.
I play guitar, and that's a great way to hide what I am. When I run out of conversational steam at a party, the guitar comes out and we filk or sing folk songs.
@@Weaseldog2001 yep i have the same.. i relate to spock and data A LOT i’ve been diagnosed with ADHD and autism as a child and was retested as an adult.. but with the retest nothing came out because i mask so much it’s just not findable.. now doing my own research i defenitely relate with ADHD and for autism Aspergers specifically makes me go yes i relate to that.. i’ve also shown my mother and she also agreed as when i was a kid it was me to a t.. i didn’t understand emotion at all untill i realised i maybe should try to understand so i started paying more attention to others.. it’s gotten to a point where i can fake cry and in moments where i know i should feel something feel nothing at all..
I’ve learned recently (because I am) if you are afab we get overlooked a lot. Because female people are able to mask to a much higher degree than males are.
Related to adult diagnosis and struggling: I recently saw How to ADHD's RUclips vid "What it's Like to be Diagnosed with ADHD as an Adult," which is an interview with ADHD coach Brett Thornhill - Brett told his therapist that he couldn't have ADHD because he accomplished so many things, and the therapist said, "But how HARD was it?"
One thing I would like to add about Spock is how he didn't just show the way we can be judged for subdued or seemingly missing emotions (although that was more common with him being among the more emotional human crew mostly) we also saw from his interactions with Vulcans and the way they treated him for his increased emotions and less strict control of them how we also sometimes end up separated and isolated by the times we do emotionally respond for the reaction being too strong.
How many people here are Tired of the Response "But you don't SEEM Autistic!".... I Swear I Groan internally every Time I Hear it... Occasionally I Grow the Audacity to Answer with "Oh, So what should I do to SEEM Autistic then? What do you Expect an Autistic person to SEEM Like?" In the most Brash Tone of Voice I can Muster...
Oh and since Big Bang Theory was Mentioned, The Writers Didn't Write Sheldon Cooper as being autistic or any form of Neurodivergent, in fact they Explicitly Stated Repeatedly that he Wasn't anything, just Smart and Weird... Meanwhile the Actor Playing him was totally trying to act Autistic for the role.... And when the series Started he didn't have a Lot of his Eccentricities, they kinda Slowly Piled up over time as the series went on
I like to answer with, "Yes, I've studied your people extensively and have learned to imitate your social mannerisms." It's funny because it sounds so alien but it's also true.
Unfortunately we've been misinformed about autistic people by almost every avenue. The good news informative videos like the one the one above help pick out what is accurate at least from the perspective of the host, who may or may not experience a different range of feeling to situations.
I think with Bashir they moved him to a different area of the spectrum, his parents essentially gave him savant syndrome.
I had the same feelings! I thought the parents did the genetic engineering to make themselves feel better about the way he related to the world, coupled with an unwillingness to change themselves. It was easier for them to change Bashir and deal with a savant - after all, at least he's "smart" now, right?
Bashir's story arc for this always made my heart hurt. I wonder what he would have become with non-prejudiced parents.
I finished DS9 about a month and a half ago, and with his storyline, I knew they pulled a Khan and genetically engineered him. When his parents were explaining the story it made me wonder
My autism was missed for a long time, and I spent a lot of time in gifted programs, where quite a few of us turned out to be neurodivergent later in our lives. I found Bashir incredibly relateable, both regarding those super senses and how everyone goes on about him being young and naive in the beginning. If I had a nickel for every time I've surprised people by being on the spectrum or older than they thought, I'd be able to buy enough ice cream to offset how bad it makes me feel.
@@slevinchannel7589 That's incredibly rude. I personally related a lot to Barclay.
@@slevinchannel7589 Barclay fought tooth and nail to overcome his limitations. By judging him on face value you show yourself to be the creep here.
I was in elementary school in TNG's original run, back when the grownups around me had never heard of Asperger's or ASD. Data was of course my imaginary BFF but I also identified with and loved Troi - she often became overwhelmed by other people's emotions or by something in the environment, and here's the fantasy projection, *this was seen as an asset and not a flaw and others took her concerns and reactions seriously.*
This is a great point regarding how autistic people are seen as having low empathy when very often it’s the opposite. The main reason why it’s so hard for me to maintain eye contact is because the raw emotion in people’s facial expressions and reactions strongly affects me.
yeah, I like Troi too, for that reason. Also, she was femme/feminine (according to the showrunners, that was apparently so she could be fan service, at least originally, unfortunately), but it was really cool that she was depicted as competent and powerful without her femininity being treated as silly or negative, or being pressured to take on masculine-coded attributes to avoid "being weak," especially because most "strong female characters" in mainstream(ish) media do.
@@timburtonlover369 Oh god, _yes._
@@sholem_bond We almost got a very different Troi…Crosby (Tasha Yar) and Marina Sirtis (Troi) originally had auditioned for each other’s roles…and as someone who has met Marina Sirtis in real life, I can kinda see why she thought she might be a good pick for the role of tomboyish hard-boiled Security Chief instead of Ultra-Femme Empath Psychiatrist.
…she’s a football/soccer fan girl and swears like a sailor. XD
What I love about Barclay as an example is that he's not portrayed as inhuman. 🥰
In the episode "In Theory", Data is dating Jenna D'Sora. She asks him to kiss her and he does, after which (when asked) Data lists all the various other things he was thinking about in that moment.
To this day, I don't think I've ever related more to a "Star Trek" character than I did right then and there to Data.
Why did you put Star Trek in quotes?
It is what I do for titles. Not sure if it is the correct thing, but it is a habit that I have.
Omg me too 😭😭
@@singularrookhart7501 that is the grammatically correct thing
@@rattyeely
Oh, thank you.
one relationship I always thought was undervalued in star trek is the one b/w Data and Troi - they're so different, with Troi being constantly aware of everyone's emotions and Data having to work overtime to even perceive them, but the way they work to understand each other and find their similarities is so fascinating. I love their conversations because they quantify and break down social interactions in the same way - Data to understand and replicate them, and Troi to analyze and talk about them to her clients. I'm probably biased bc growing up my dad always identified with Data and my mom with Troi, because both of them are neurodivergent in very different ways.
I have always read Tilly as having ADHD and would like to point out that it's cannon Spock has dyslexia. Both of these types of neurodivergens have a lot of cross over signs with Autism along with torrents, PTSD, OCD and DID.
Oh, so THAT'S why I find Tilly so relatable
I assume you meant Tourettes?
Same, I just finished the first season of discovery, really enjoyed and related to Tilly
yeah me too. Its weird that Jess called her autistic. She's very, very ADHD coded.
@@mandolinistry3207 there's a huge comorbidity between ADHD and autism, so it's quite easy for people with one condition to identify with people with the other as they may be more likely to have subclinical traits of the other condition.
I loved Barkley's role in Voyager. Such a great call-back. And the scene where he tracks down Deanna during her beach vacation? Priceless and so spot-on. He has no awareness as to how inappropriate he's being. He just needs to share his theory.
One interesting thing about Odo is that his difficulties with social interactions are not inherent to his species, like with Vulcans. The other Changelings seen in the series are not like that.
He looked th way he did because he always struggled with the human form. That was the reason for his difficulty dealing with 'solids'. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
and then remember his history, only one of the hundred cast into space as an infant, found by a sadistic humanoid scientist who experimented on him for decades. not a great beginning, eh? i'd be a little stand-offish, too.
I'm so glad you pointed out the issues with intentionally coded autistic individuals like Sheldon. As an autistic individual, I absolutely _loathe_ Sheldon; not just because his general dickishness generates dislike, but because I see him as being how media wants to represent someone like me: an overly smart standoffish individual whose misunderstandings of social norms warrants a laugh track.
My parents compare me to him. It's horrible. It is part of what caused me to distrust and detach from my parents. Now I have mild attachment issues, hooray...
Yeah, I see why you hated The Big Bang Theory. For me, the characters of Data and Sheldon cooper were always very close in terms of what they represent, but in TBBT everyone is deeply annoyed by Sheldon and his behavior, he is being laughed at. It's sad, I see where you're coming from. But in TNG... Well, I was always fascinated by how everybody on the crew of the Enterprise just loves Data the way he is. I mean, it would probably be VERY hard to work with a crewmate like him in real conditions, and sometimes we get a glimpse of that tn Star Trek. Data is also sometimes shown to be funny in his weird, clumsy way of a machine that doesn't completely understand humans. What I also love so much about Data is that his single greatest wish is to be like living people, to understand them, to be one of them, really. He tries and fails, limited by his programming, but still, step by step, he creates a better version of himself. He is also, unlike, say, vulcans, never smug or arrogant about his level of intelligence. I mean, the guy is literally 100 times as smart as the next smartest person on the ship, and he is still humble. From day one he is more human than many humans, even though it's not easy for him. And he genuinely cares. And people on the ship do everything to help him be what he wants to be: a person. He is in the same rank system as them, he wears the same uniform as them, he is not just a machine, he is a person FROM DAY ONE of the show. That's how you avoid evil robot uprisings. You talk to them like you talk to people. Cheers to Data, the warmest, coziest, nicest character in Star Trek.
P.S. This guy also has a cat.
I always looked at the hatred many have toward Sheldon is largely due to his being so unconscionably abrasive in everything he does. He's the stereotype of the arrogant, gatekeeping asshole nerd in addition to portraying a lot of the negative stereotypes of autism. Like, he reads so much like the guy who's a rules lawyer min-maxxer when playing RPGs, a guy who'll incessantly complain about things like "that's not how that arc went in the comics, how dare they call that movie Civil War!", while also sneering down at the person getting interested in comics because they watched the MCU: all the worst stereotypes of a nerd. He also reads like the worst stereotypes of a neuroatypical, in that he shows no apparent empathy, is aggressively requiring of specific rituals to his behavior to the point of disregarding how it negatively affects others, and doesn't seek to understand how society functions. He expects the world to conform to him and his desires, rather than seeking to meet halfway, or even learn how to react and interact in the world.
@@Mokiefraggle So... essentially blackface but for autism.
Yeah, but they didn’t like Barclays.
As an ADHD person I love the representations of neurodiversity in Star Trek. I recently rewatched "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" I cried when Bashir was arguing with his parents I felt like the scene was speaking just to me. It felt great to be represented in a media I love.
Brent didnt know how Data was affecting us at the time? But now he knows? I'm not crying you're crying
I'm pretty sure I'm autistic and this is why I've always related so hard to Spock, Data, and Seven. That's also why I hated Dr Pulaski so much, what with all her conflicts with Data :/
I feel that for sure - I never liked Dr. Pulaski either because they kind of tried to make her like Dr McCoy to Data's Spock but it just didn't work bc she didn't respect him the way McCoy respected Spock.
@@mylahobbit1815 yes! It's like the writers didn't realise what made Bones so good. Bones teased Spock and Kirk but only because all three of them had been friends for so long and liked and respected each other so much. Pulaski didn't have any of that so she just came off mean. Not helped for me by the fact that if you made Data human but kept his characteristics the same Pulaski would be hella ableist :/
I always thought she was *obsessed* with Data. That one clip Jessie showed was very typical of their interactions and put me off to Pulanski immediately (she does it in the first episode she appeared in!) I feel bad for Diana Muldar because her character was so poorly written but the Data obsession bordered on disgusting. How do you even think of trying to humanize a character when someone else treats them like a lab rat?
You're not autistic, you are most likely a narcissist. Your sentence clearly states that.
@@thelastdrive-inscreen2393 surely one could be both?
Minor complaint: people often use neurodiversity to mean autism and autism alone. While autism is an example of neurodiversity there are other neurodiverse types that should be included like ADHD, Down Syndrome, Schizo spectrum disorders and arguably stuff like personality disorders.
Eric Sophia on theor YT channel Curio has a video where they talk about how Spock is very relatable to them as someone with Borderline Personality Disorder because Vulcans are described as actually having overwhelming emotions which is why their culture revolves around controlling emotion
I have a hearing disability. It's not genetic, but manifested in infancy and progressed through my childhood. Doctors were able to stabilize the hearing loss surgically when I was 11, but were not able to reverse what had already taken place. As I have dealt with this essentially my entire life, I have adapted to it fairly well. When I was in high school, I received strong pushback from specialists who insisted I would need hearing aids and an auditory trainer in order to function as my education progressed. I was strongly opposed to this, but attempted it for a time before eventually refusing. One of the reasons I hated the idea was because of the othering effect it had on me, and the bullying I experienced from other kids when wearing either device. However, equally if not more of an issue were the myriad of small sounds of which I had been wholly unaware before being fitted for the hearing aids that I was suddenly bombarded with when wearing them. It was a sensory assault I was wholly unequipped to face and left me totally unable to focus. I... am feeling a great deal of emotions in response to this video, and I feel unable to articulate them, so I am fixating on this one particular aspect of the video to, in a very longwinded fashion, say that this has really resonated with me, and I am thankful for having been able to share this. Thank you, Jessie
I just realized data was my comfort character for so long because he’s autistic coded. I didn’t even know I was autistic when I was a kid but I could never figure out what was “wrong” with me
I actually think Picard is an entirely reasonable addition to the list.
Would partially explain his affinity with Data
He's awkward, but… can you back that up more? He's more calm and deliberate than most, but does that mean he's on the spectrum?
@@thedayjob With the caveat that it's a fictional character and I'm not a doctor, I think that Picard in TNG is, as a rule, emotionally distant from the other characters. In the sense that the seven series of the show represent a single arc this might even be described as his fatal flaw. He feels very comfortable in his own routines (tea, earl grey, hot). His interactions with children tend to highlight how difficult he finds it to intuit other people's emotions. He has very specific and focused areas of interest in archaeology, he is very irritable in situations he cannot control (see every Q episode). I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'm fairly certain there's even a couple of episodes where he's shown to have acute sensory input when it comes to the ship's noises or motions. There would probably be more examples if I though about it a bit more but hopefully you get the gist.
Like I said, I'm not even 100% convinced of this head cannon myself, it's just one way of reading the character. All of these behaviours could simply be coincidence, or it could be that Stewart based the character on C18th British Naval officers and that profession tended to attract people on the spectrum, or that some of the writing staff were on the spectrum and wrote in some of these behaviours without thinking about it. It's death of the author stuff anyway as I don't think anyone intended the character to be interpreted this way.
@@matthewmcneany Picard's hearing sensitivity is due to him having Shalaft's Syndrome, which is linked to the Y chromosome.
Just because you're different doesn't mean you're on the spectrum.
This was wonderful. I always identified with Spock, Data, and Odo. Even my family knew I was basically Data. I thought at the beginning I might cry but I managed to hold it together... Until the end, darn you. Thank you for this video, Jessie.
As someone with ADHD, and a few other things I personally really related with Bashir. The way everyone found him so annoying especially early on really resonated with me. He would get so excited and just completely fail to read the room and say something that unintentially offended someone. He was just such a mood. I would have reacted the exact same way as he did when he met Garak.
Fun fact: The first time watching I was not aware that he was presented as annoying and could not read the room… NOW I understand how it was done but as a kid I even did not get social cues in TV…
I like Bashir, he's just himself and honest about who he is
Star Trek is one of my special interests and I've been studying and watching it since childhood. It means a lot to me and it's so expansive, which means there's always more to learn about it. I love talking about it and using the characters as examples like you do! My family discouraged my intense obsession with it because they thought I was wasting my time on something that wasn't real, they were extremely unappreciative of art forms of any kind and didn't like that I loved to draw and make stories. They've said that I was extremely unproductive whenever I drew things and always made me know that they did not like my art when I showed them.
For me Star Trek is a paradise, a place where I can analyze things by watching shows, movies, cartoons, but also read about it in books and articles and comics! I grew up watching Voyager the most and heavily related to Captain Janeway and Lieutenant Tuvok, and then Seven of Nine when she joined the crew. I think those three characters combined sum up how I see myself pretty well
I remember Data was always my favorite character in the TNG because I felt like we were learning to "be human" together.
12:02 I had this exact struggle in middle school regarding kids not being able to shut up in class. I kept telling adults that I just couldn’t tune it out, but they just attributed it to my ADHD and told me I had to learn. It did not help that my therapist didn’t listen to me when I suggested I might have autism. It took until age 17 to finally be diagnosed
I finally learnt to name some of my own emotions when playing the sims in high school. I'd see the sim acting in a certain way, see their needs meter, and that would finally clue me in to the fact that when I act in a similar way, that relates to my own emotional needs. Loneliness, especially, is a concept I learnt through the sims - sure I felt it, deeply, before then - but the ability to say "oh, yes, I'm lonely" in relation to that?
...thanks sims.
Omg I do as well. My social meter is usually pretty low. But every once in a while it goes in the red and I need a bit more. It’s an awesome way to explain my needs to my husband and family.
After considering it a bit to myself, one character that won't necessarily spring to mind immediately I think could be read as being on the spectrum is Worf.
I can't quite put a finger on it, and it's not just how he differs and relates to the humans (and other aliens), but how he relates to other Klingons. He doesn't quite fit their culture, as much as he idolizes it, which makes it difficult for him and even gets him exiled... twice! (ok the first time was a bit of a different matter but the second was all about his unwillingness to bend himself ot the culture).
He's emotionally reserved, which contributes to his difficult relationship with his son. He's not percieved as unfeeling, but can absolutely be percieved as dour.
And as I wrote this I remembered the part in DS9 where he moves his quarters to the Defiant.
I'm gonna identify my neurodivergency with Worf now.
That makes so much sense! And why Odo gets him, I remember Odo telling him to make people feel uncomfortable in his quarters so they won't visit
Barclay is controversial? I thought it was just accurate. Part of his whole arc is show how even characters we like (the ones that we people relate too) are _in the wrong_ for how they treat and perceive him.
oh i hated geordi so much for complaining about how barclay "is always late" and such, i related so hard because my adhd makes it so hard to be in time 😅 also it seemed just so socially incompetent that the others were not able to see barclays good will and good intentions despite this "little" being late 😂 i mean, respect is not only shown by being on time, "why don't they see the rest of him", it got me ranting 😅
@@ichsehnursoaus Yes! I loved when Guinan turned Geordi’s complaints back around and said basically, “If everyone around you treated you like a nuisance at best and a laughingstock at worst, wouldn’t you start being late just to avoid them all?”
He was at the time (iirc) seen by some as a 'fan insert', that his character may have been the writers making fun of the fans who are intensely into Trek.
"Feeling lonely and less worthwhile" is a sentiment that I think a lot of people on the Spectrum can relate to. I myself have missed on a lot of opportunities to interact with others because of my social anxiety. Even today, after living with it for 30 years, I sometimes feel anger, and even self-loathing, for being on the Spectrum because of the difficulties I've had from it. That I was weak or stupid for having those difficulties, that I should have been able to overcome them on my own, that I am not as worthy as those not on the Spectrum. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better if I had been born an neurotypical because then I would not have had that anxiety, that fear, that loneliness. The bullying, the sensitivity, the awkward moments, the meltdowns, all of it could have been avoided if only I was born differently. Then again, perhaps I would have been bullied anyway.
I hope you are doing better these days.
Fascinating (no pun intended!) Thanks for mentioning the hyper-emotioanl side. I was only diagnosed this year at 32 and that was the most intense symptom for me. I have some others but what I've been in therapy and on medications for without having a diagnosis for years has been an outsized emotional reaction that caused problems in school and the workplace all my life. I've never come off as emotionless....rather, I've never been able to hide any of my emotions, and react to any stimulus at the drop of a hat. So it's cool to see that part brought out :) I had no idea until very recently that dysregulation could be part of autism.
I want to thank you for this labour of love and intellect. As a Black Trans Lesbian diagnosed with the system as it was understood in the 1960s and a different medical understanding in the 1980s, and again in the early 2000s I ask that when you revisit this subject please address the near-complete absence of minority neuro-divergence, how every role you and countless others share are always White or designed in such a way they are coded as White-like.
I wanted to add my voice to yours on this. From everything I've seen, it's much, much harder to get an autism diagnosis for someone who isn't white and male. What is more, I had an enormous trouble finding any information about women on the Spectrum, and next to nothing about autistic people who weren't white. I agree that we need more depictions of minorities among the neuro-divergent community (I am not sure if that's the right phraseology, so forgive me if I misspeak.)
If by "minority" you mean "non-white", off the top of my head there's Worf, Tuvok, B'Elanna Torres and Michael Burnham. Potentially Geordi too, if you count social awkwardness as non-neurotypicality.
Whites are the minority on Earth, and likely the entire galaxy.
@@TokyoXtreme When I was about the thought occurred to me that if an alien civilization was observing us, they would surely assume most humans were Chinese or at least Asian. I have continued to wonder at the tiny fraction of Asians portrayed in all the visions of human colonization across the galaxy, with no explanation. Does a future COVID wipe out all of the Asian civilizations?
There's a way I recently figured out how to describe neurodivergent social anxiety: you know when you suddenly think about breathing or walking and are aware of it? Even worse when you're walking down stairs and this happens and this awareness makes you anxious because it doesn't feel natural and safe anymore? That's how I tend to feel with social interaction. I am hyper aware of the rules and the theories but I'm on this different level of how naturally it comes to me.
@@slevinchannel7589 ? This comment wasn't even talking about him?
That is a brilliant analogy. Im definetly going to use that.
I didn’t realize other ppl feel this way abt stairs but that happens to me a lot. it’s like the mechanics of it suddenly feel complicated, and all I can think of is breaking my neck
are you familiar with strange-o comedian Stephen Wright? my favorite joke(?) of his is this: how do you feel? well, you know that feeling when you sit in a chair and then lean it back on to two legs? and then you tip a little too far back then tip a little forward, then back, then forward? i feel like that all the time!
Beautiful and wonderful video, as usual! I have raised a child on the Spectrum, and when I recently re-watched the TNG Episode "The Offspring" it just broke me down, letting 15 years of emotions loose that I'd not been facing before. I cherish my daughter for who she is, and that scene when Lal tells Data she loves him, it brings me back to the first time that my child actually came up to me and gave me a hug on her own accord. Sheesh, I'm crying again just thinking about it all. Thank you for a wonderful video!
I myself have Autism and I love Star Trek and heavily relate to Tilly, Rutherford, Data and Barclay but even Deanna Troi remember when she had a mental breakdown when she kept hearing the music over and over in her head I kept pretending that I was talking to her saying that I know what she was experiencing
I think Guinan is also in the spectrum. A different flavor, ‘cause some of us really can mask. She is really empathetic and warm but can also do things like stabbing the guy she despises with a fork. That and the 23 husbands could get her misdiagnosed as BPD. She appears to be very social but is not really. Her engagements are not bilateral, she keeps her distance and mostly listens to others that know very little about her. She listens to the universe and is so sensitive that she can feel changes in the timeline... But this may be me projecting, so don’t mind me I’ll be here sipping my tea and listening to the conversation. 😝
And she disappears a lot, yeah that’s because Whoopi had movies etc to make, but I could see that as her stepping back when she needed to
Guinan isn't human, though, she just looks it. I suppose if your lifespan was substantially longer than any of the other mortal species around you, you might be a little detached as well, knowing how transitory their lives are in comparison to your own.
@@Theomite Agreed. I think Guinan is more typical for her race - a race of long-living aliens dedicated to hearing other's stories. I never thought her difference was due to being on the spectrum but because she IS actually different from humans.
@@AngelaRyanXX In a way you are correct - gender IS meaningless. Meaning one shouldn't make any assumptions about someone else, just because of their gender.
@@Theomite without even having an opinion on this take, I’m not really understanding how not being human would count Guinan out? This whole video is about mostly non-human characters being the most relatable to autistic fans.
Oddly enough, once I realized that the reason why I was struggling with DISCO is that Sylvia Tilly was reminding me of myself, I stopped being nervous and scared of the show. Now, I look forward to it. That realization came because a friend of mine talked about how much he dislikes Julian Bashir because Dr. Bashir reminds him of himself. Growing up, my favorite characters ended up being Seven of Nine and T'Pol. I should add that I was glad that they made it clear that Seven may have grown, but she's still putting on a mask. I want to add that Silvia Tilly is now one of my favorite characters :).
One thing I would like to add is that I, at least, am constantly haunted a bit by my own failings including not wanting to admit to being autistic for a long time and saying some bad things as well as saying absolutely inappropriate things from time to time that have hurt others.
I find hostile fans' different negative reaction to Tilly compared to Spock and Data highly telling of cultural sexism, also. A lot of these people have SO much less time for Tilly than they did for the other two.
@@kaitlyn__L I had to start down voting a lot of those hostile fans' videos because of their toxicity so that they didn't come up on my feeds and stopped going on social media a while ago, so I didn't know that they had such a negative reaction to Tilly; though, it doesn't surprise me. It's definitely rooted in sexism. As much as I love T'Pol and Seven, they were played for sex appeal a lot while Tilly isn't.
Hoof-in-mouth syndrome? Yeah, as a neurodivergent I've had that my whole life, and it has been met with a startling lack of empathy or understanding. It haunted me too for most of my life. But now that I know I'm on the spectrum and since I've come to understand what that means for me, if people want to misinterpret me and take offense b4 helping me understand why I'm being offensive, I no longer have time for them. And NT's call us the unempathetic ones...
Also Tilly RULES!!!!!❤
Relatable.. i have ADHD and autism and a good example of a similar thing to this would be Michelangelo from the ninja turtles.. as a kid i hated him because he was what i am and i didn’t want to be that hyper kid that is often seen as annoying.. so because i didn’t like myself i also didn’t like the character.. luckily now as an adult i didn’t have any issues.. i actually really like Tilly because i relate to her now.. i see myself in her but since i don’t hate myself anymore and have accepted myself i actually really like her because it makes me feel like i’m not alone.. it’s the same for the vulcans i relate to them because i repress my emotions.. but when it comes trough it comes trough like a thunder strike
Thank-you SO MUCH for this video! My beloved 9-yr-old grandson is on the spectrum, and seeing this through the lens of Star Trek has helped me understand his world so much better. You are amazing and you have done so much for all of us with this wonderful video.
This makes me suddenly aware that I'm probably on the spectrum as well...
You took the words right out of my mouth. Much to think about.
They call it a spectrum for a reason. 👍
@@matthewmcneany Yeah. Watching this, I went from "this is me, this is exactly me" to "nope, that's not even remotely me" and back all the time. At this time (60 this year), I'm pretty certain I'm somewhere on the spectrum but have never had any official diagnosis one way or the other.
Makes me wonder as well.
Yeah I think about this a lot when I consider what Trek characters I relate to the most!
"Autism is the next step in the evolution of humanity." Thanks for that shout-out to The Predator. That entire movie dehumanized autism as well as the rest of humanity. In fact, it dealienized aliens. I don't know even what that means but, damn, that movie was awful.
One of Australia’s foremost experts on Autism (who’s been falling badly out of favour with the Autism community, especially the Autistic Trans community) Dr Tony Atwood suggested that line in the episode of the bio-pic documentary series Australian Story about him some years ago. I expect the movie got the line from him, unless there’s an earlier example.
Of course it doesn’t take much logic or knowledge of history to see that Autistic traits have always been present in humanity and that recent increases in diagnosis is just due to changes in diagnostic criteria.
@@baynemacgregor8441 I suspect that autistic people have been responsible for many of the great advances in human civilization, simply because they thought about things differently from other people, and focused on things intensely enough to understand them in depth and detail. There is also a strong correlation between autism and the possession of savant abilities.
This really hits home. I was beaten by my ASD Dad (who didn't know he was ASD) because I drove him nuts because I am ASD...which is a trait I inherited from him
At 59, I've only recently been diagnosed as Neuro diverse. Weirdly, I've never had social anxiety. But when I had to interview multiple people daily about rough times (joblessness, homelessness, etc.) I couldn't put it down at the end of the day and I ended up having such intense mental distress that I was put on administrative leave until I could prove that I'd had a full mental and physical exam. I'd been begging for months to do a different job because it was breaking me, but no one listened until I actually broke.
I have hyper acute hearing which means I often hear things I wasn't meant to, and finding noise canceling headphones I could afford was a huge help to me. Also, being moved to statistical analysis has been a blessing.
Well now I'm a complete sobbing mess.
Thank you for this. I need to send this to some friends and family members because it says things I need to say better than I could.
Thank you for this video. I am autistic. I have been self diagnosed and on a very long waiting list for a formal diagnosis for about a year and a half. I bawled my eyes out at this video because I have been watching star trek with my parents from the original series over the last 6 months or so and we're on season 5 of tng right now. It's my first proper run through the show and I identified so much with spock and data in different ways. It warms my heart that in all the other shows there's going to be yet more characters I will relate to as well. Star trek means so much to me because I am sharing the experience with my parents and my autism is "still new" so to speak. I am sharing how I relate to these characters with them and it helps them in turn to understand me more. We go through life not always having that. Others misunderstanding us as much as we can misunderstand them. It is so moving to me when there's opportunity to better understand. What I love most about these characters is that they're accepted for who they are. Accepted and loved by those around them. It is moving how the actors as well love us that identify with their characters. Thank you for making this video.
I grew up watching Star Trek and I can honestly say that the character I relate to the most would have to be Odo. I can see a LOT of myself in him simply because of him being Odo and not because of a very specific reason or character trait.
I was diagnosed with high-functioning Asperger's Syndrome at 4-years-old despite being born with it. My father was diagnosed at the same time as myself at 39 even though he too was born with it but hadn't been formally diagnosed. My sister's Asperger's is so mild that she wasn't formally diagnosed by a professional until she was 12 or 13.
My biggest problems growing up was, and still is to this day, sensory overload, socialization, and properly communicating what I'm thinking into words without messing up with the proper voice tones that go with a certain phrase or sentence. Which leads to me constantly asking the person I'm talking if they understand what I'm saying and also trying to cope with the immense social anxiety that goes along with me speaking to people outside my immediate family and my best friend. Silk feels like slime to me and I can't stand it, I love anything soft, fuzzy, and furry, and I enjoy listening to a LOT of folk, metal, and Gregorian styled music because they help calm me down and empower me too.
As a result of all of that, my parents got each of us a dog or puppy that connected to us and trained them to be our service dogs. I got mine 2 years ago just before my ex and I broke up. And it's because of my dog, Hanzel, that I have been able to better cope with my day-to-day life and to also help me sleep at night because my extremely hyperactive brain gives me acute insomnia because it won't shut down even when I'm dead tired and need to get some rest.
Being autistic isn't easy, that's for darn sure. Can be a blessing and a curse at times too. But even all the struggles of my life, I can honestly say that I wouldn't change for it anything anytime soon.
You didn’t talk about how VERY different girls present as autistic. Tilly, man, Tilly is Autistic, she’s my hero! ADHD & Autistic fo lyfe!
P.S. you’re better at mirroring because you are a girl.
EDIT: YAY 25:00 IN YOU TALK ABOUT MY TILLY!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Growing up in the '80s, before there was TNG (and to a degree, even after), Spock was God. It's strange seeing other minorities have their first representations be caricatures or stereotypes that wound them because for us, Spock wasn't defamatory: he was aspirational. *He was what we wanted to be:* An alien in the future on an advanced spaceship who could proudly display his rational nature while simultaneously exploring strange, new worlds? And with green blood? Fuck, that beat anything humanity had to offer! Spock and Egon Spengler were more or less idols to people like me, and their strangeness only made them more alluring because it meant we were not alone. Even though most of us didn't know what autism was, if it had an embodiment, a physical manifestation, it was him, and that gave us a feeling of hope.
When Nimoy died in 2015, I lost my shit. It felt like I had lost a father figure, even though I never met him. To know that he wasn't going to be there anymore--that there would be no more OG Spock ever--was more than I could take. I can't watch the funeral scene from WRATH OF KHAN anymore, even now, it still hits too hard.
Probably the most insightful analysis of a TV show I've ever watched and inspiring as well. Having myself a daughter in the autistic spectrum I was very moved by your first hand experiences.
I have never been diagnosed, but the strong emotions, social anxiety, sensitivity to noise, and not maintaining eye contact are all things I have seen listed in the spectrum that I personally have. As I have aged I have become something of an agoraphobic too. The last time I left the house it was to vote. Before that it had been several months. And it doesn't bother me in the least. The conditions so many people are expressing discomfort with during quarantine are every day life to me. I was puzzled how strongly they reacted to it. Quiet contemplation doesn't bother me nearly as much as a restaurant full of people.
I agree! Being stuck at home really hasn't been much of a challenge for me either. The last time I went out, it was only to drop off my ballot and get some boba. Didn't even take 30 minutes, but I found it to be plenty before I wanted to go home again lol. I relate to a lot of the experiences that Jessie outlined for ASD (especially the noise sensitivity, intense emotions, and cold appearance), although I've never been diagnosed with it. I do have ADHD though and I know they have a high comorbidity rate, so I suppose it's entirely possible.
Everything you said applies to me as well. It makes me wonder about myself.
Oh my, yes. Except for me it's only a few days at a time; I go out for supplies a couple times a week.
@@erincorcoran5936 Emotional intensity and disregulation are considered to be hallmarks of ADHD as well.
Once a week, to go grocery shopping WITH my partner. That is how often I have any desire to leave the house anymore (and I really don't desire to do it so much as I kind of *have* to do it). But I do understand the difficulty so many people are having in this time of solitary lonliness, and I sometimes wish I were the kind of person who could 'push back' against this very abnormal way of existing because for most that's exactly what it is. Nobody should be forced to live like this who doesn't want to (no I don't believe a less than 1% national death toll to be sufficient enough reason to keep everyone on involuntary house arrest), but I do choose to live like this because I can and want to. We are anomalies of society as is everyone in some way whether obvious or not... And for better or worse that's okay ☀️
Oh, my life in a video. I was a young, undiagnosed, autistic child when in September of 1966 I first "met" Spock. He changed my life, and in many ways helped save my life as well. When I was 22 my girlfriend at the time tried to sit me down and explain that I was neither Vulcan, nor an Android. From there I had to pattern emotional context and facial expressions for long term storage and implementation. Yes, that was the task I set for myself.
She was pleased and surprised beyond anything I had anticipated, and I of course took a bunch of significant steps toward being more human. Sadly I was not able to make an adequate study of humor, and that is still largely lost to me.
In 2013 I was finally correctly diagnosed as autistic, and suddenly so much of my life came into a level of clarity and understanding I wish I'd had decades earlier.
I am grateful for your post, thank you so much.
My wife told me when she was in middle school during TNG's run, the response of her classmates every time she opened her mouth was, "Shut up Data." She did end up with an ASD I diagnosis, so it's no surprise.
I'm over 50 and was recently diagnosed with autism, which explains a WHOLE lot of things in my life, like feeling more of a kinship with Data and Spock than I did with the humans around me. Thanks for this video: it means a lot!
One of my aspie/autistic parts is the whole excessive emption/emotional expression thing and throughout my life I have been constantly accused of being "overly dramatic" and "theatrical", like I'm faking it. It's only one of the ways I was gaslit as a child and it still hurts. I still do all I can to suppress my emotions, to deny them, to not share them with others. And I beat myself up about it when I fail.
After my son was diagnosed on the spectrum and I learned more about neuro diversity and I've often wondered if I too was also on the spectrum. I grew up before Autism was widely identified as it is today. I'm a huge trekkie and was surprised to find this video, even more surprising - all the characters you listed data, spock, seven, barkley, odo - were my favorite characters in the shows. Without knowing why, I found them relatable and interesting, and I'm left wondering now if I related to them because of many of the reasons listed in the video. Beautiful take on neuro diversity Jessie!
I got into the star trek fandom with Discovery Season 1. It's late, but I'm so glad I did. I enjoyed Discovery S1, but I started to love Star Trek with TNG. I'm a big fan of TNG. I haven't watched other iterations, but I plan to at some point. In any case, to answer the question: as an autistic person, I identified most with Data, but also Troy. I'm very empathic (Maybe not as much as Troy, but still) but always lacked the skills to deal with that empathy and emotions (like Data). So yeah, I'm a Data/Troy combo. ^^
Data has, and always shall be, the character I most identify with
I just got to this. Thanks for making it. My two favorite characters in ST are Barclay and Tilly because they were so obviously (if unintentionally) neurodivergent. Seeing especially the Discovery crew just completely accepting her was so heart warming and great.
I didn't start watching Star Trek until 2020. Data has quickly become one of the most relatable characters to me in Trek. Trekkies I know often compare me to him too, but I think I'm more like Barclay tbh. I am incredibly awkward and have been bullied throughout my life.
Thank you for making this video Jessie.
I've had many conversations with a friend of mine who has little concept (and less tolerance) of those with neurodifferences; it's taking time, but he's slowly coming around...
If you need to, get a new friend.
Thanks, I'm genuinly scared to talk to people like that. We need people like you in the world.
This is such a fantastic video, thank you for doing this. I'm diagnosed ADHD (big chonk of autism in my family and I recognise a lot in your descriptions) and have definitely seen myself in so many characters in Star Trek. Sensory hypersensitivity is a nightmare with both autism and adhd.
I haven't seen anyone mention Tom Paris here but after being diagnosed I rewatched Voyager and while I did not recognise myself in him totally I did recognise definite ADHD tendencies I have. Like the need for new experiences as well as having intense interest in extremely niche areas.
Barkley used to annoy me no end, after I rewatched tng recently I recognised how Barkley unknowingly sets off a fear/panic response in people around him because he is terrified of them that I absolutely know I did as a teenager.
When I was a kid I used to sneak out at 11 or later to watch Star Trek on my own, I absolutely found sci-fi such a sanctuary.
I still find Schultz' Barclay one of the most uncomfortable characters to watch and in particular Hollow Pursuits one of the most difficult episodes of Trek to watch. I think this is principally because of my concern that the way he is perceived within the show is that way that other people see me. Reflected in the character I see more extreme behaviours that I probably exhibit myself. I suspect I'm not the only one.
You're not. Writing shit with my friends so I could figure out their reactions was a thing I did and well like he seemed like everything I was always terrified I was doing.
@GozerTheTraveller Ditto!
@GozerTheTraveller Im interested to hear the "love part." Barclay for me have stood out as a character I can enjoy because he express concerns and are put to challenges I can relate to, even the inital mistreatment of the crew in Hollow Pursuits, which I know is sad, but it's also an reality and as you said our sympathies was always meant to be directed towards Barclay. That being said I also understand it may be problematic how he is forced to reject parts of his personality and how it is potrayed as something positive to do. Strictly speaking, this didn't hit me and in hindsight it maybe do with that I also can relate to that, being a person on the spectrum who escaped not just into uplifting passions, but into acctual substance abuse. But I respect others feeling different.
@GozerTheTraveller Oh yes! This also resonate with me! Im very passionate about my job, but it's also hard because it often puts my social skills to the test... and my impostor syndrome, being the perfectionst that I am. As you said it would be easier not to do it all, to find something easier, and I have many times thought to do that, mostly when I face new challenges (and there are a lot.) But then I would miss out on something I love to do. Who knew Barclay would be such a inspiration! :)
Matthew McNeany
Do yourself a favor and don't watch Short Trek.
oh gosh, i was bawling at clips at the end. i just started voyager for the first time and i also bawled during the first episode, where tuvok was reunited with janeway after being with the maquis and his very matter-of-fact delivery of how gratified he is to be able to be there to give counsel to her again, it belied the ocean of feeling underneath the surface and gosh i'm crying again
I can't believe I JUST found you! As an autistic person also obsessed with Trek this resonated strongly with me. As a nonbinary person, I'm sure your other content will also hit home. Can't wait to watch more of your videos and THANK YOU for this one in particular!
I had to stop the video and break down and cry because I totally relate to around 21:40 when you talked about being so traumatized by kids pointing, whispering behind and laughing at you, that to this day you still think people are doing that when they're probably not. I'm still forever trying to erase those thoughts from my head! 😢😭😭😭😭😭
Your videos always 'affect' me the most, like with happy tears. Thank you.
Spock showed me how to use my brain and logic to navigate this irrational world as a kid, but also that friendship and love have value.
Data helped me learn about others from all over and navigate the world through college, and to always strive to be a better person.
Odo helped me realize that a long brutal history has led to the ultimately unfair world we all live in, and that a desire for order should never sacrifice happiness or hurt others.
Seven helped me navigate the complicated work place and the world as an adult that has tremendous power imbalances, but we all have to work together to survive.
T'pol was just damn sexy and we shared the same resigned attitude/acceptance (disdain?) for dealing with humans in general with all their flaws, and looking at the bigger picture -- the worlds beyond my own, or this one.
Your section on Bashir really hit hard for me, because I was in the furthest behind group in school at first... before suddenly catching up. So Siddig's performance about how they didn't give him enough time always hits close to home as well.
Well, it wasn't quite as Bashir said, I picked up the written word faster than most kids, but almost everything else had "delayed development", by a few years. I specifically did struggle with categorising basic pictures of a house and a tree and a dog so, yeah, lots of specific examples in that episode were like whoof.
I really appreciate this video as someone who is a high functioning autistic I really resonated with so much of what you said throughout this video and I'm hoping to use this video as a way to explain clearly show how I feel or see the world to people close to me that don't have a great understanding of my diverse condition. Thank you
This is a fantastic video! I've watched Star Trek since 1966 (when I was eleven). But I did not know I was autistic until 2013 (age 58). I don't think kids being diagnosed as being autistic was a thing when I was a child (or at least not something my parents knew about). Spock helped me a lot at age 11 feel okay about not showing emotions, which I wasn't even sure I had because I had buried them so deep at the time. It's been a fascinating journey (pun intended) since 2013, when I finally had a name for my way of being out in the world. I have always worked to be the best version of "me" I could be. But since 2013 I've had a better understanding of my strengths and weaknesses... the "cards I was dealt". Fun fact: It was at a Star Trek convention in L.A. in 2013 where I told Brent Spiner I had High Functioning Asperger's Syndrome.... the first person I told other than my sister. He said "You hide it very well." or words to that effect... a testament to my efforts over the years (which you mentioned) to adopt behavior patterns that hide my true social anxiety. I will be talking to Brent via Zoom later today (Marina too) thanks to Galaxy Con and then Jonathan Frakes on Sunday. One thing I will do is thank them for being part of something that has helped me be okay with being me. I'll mention your video too, which I'm going to share on Twitter with them shortly. Thanks again for the great work!
I've discovered your channel through Council of Geeks and I'm so happy to have found you on here. I've been watching various videos for the past couple days that you've posted, exploring your journey as a trans gender person and hearing about how that affected you, and a few of your looking a life through a star trek lens and I became instantly in love with you as a person and your channel and what you do. I am grateful for people like you and will be regularly watching your content moving forward.
I am replying to this video in particular because of all the videos I've seen on discussing autism and becoming more understanding and aware, this is the one I feel best encompasses the words I've been searching for in helping others understand what I go through as an autistic person. I have learned to mask my autism to conform to societal norms enough that I don't immediately put people off or give others the impression I struggle with neurotypical actions and thought processes, and it was really beautifully put on how you addressed that. This will be the video I send to everyone who I want to understand my spectrum better, to understand me better. Thank you for this.
To answer your closing question, I identified with nearly every single neuro divergent character in Star Trek and I hadn't truly realized all those years I fell in love with the series that a huge part of that love came from being able to self-identify with characters and being accepted by others within that universe and hearing you express that possibility really made me love this franchise that much more. Also, while I identified with most of the neuro divergent characters, as I've often had moments of feeling like a robot, not seeing the sense of acting on emotion impulsively, and the like, but personally I feel I can relate most with Odo and the Doctor.
Odo is hard to put into words just how much I see myself in him. It took me a long time to discover this about myself and the changeling species as a whole shed some light on it which put me on a path to discover it, but they are quite literally gender fluid lol. But for real, they took on the shape they wanted to be and didn't inherently have a concept of gender. I've discovered with a lot of turmoil in finding myself that I am agender. With how I have seen Odo, I see him as an entity who does not identify with gender or biases towards any pattern of behavior. He simply saw things as they were and tried to understand why they were. He even opened up that his appearance was chosen to fit in but later came to adopt his commonly known form as his identity. I've always felt like my body was just a vessel that others could interact with and my appearance was only maintained to fit in and my real form transcended what we know as bodies. I relate to his distrust of solids and inability to truly understand or conform to their standards if he didn't see the sense or reason in it. I'm very blunt, direct and can seem cold or distant to new people. It's not until I've had some time learning about how the person I'm interacting with deals with various interactions where I can understand how to be more sensitive to my approach with them. I've also always enjoyed turning chaos and putting an order to it. I am very meticulous and observant and saw a lot of myself in his interest of observing others at a distance and his investigative tendencies. For many years I closed myself off and didn't let others see the real me. The way he felt when he was afraid to show Lwaxana his true form was the most relatable experience I've had with the series and it was really beautiful to me how it was handled with such delicacy and it was empowering when he later grew comfort in letting that side of him out to others with more confidence and certainty with himself.
The Doctor, while I was never quite as arrogant or devoid of sensitivity as he was in his earlier days of activation, it was how he was viewed as inconsequential because he was just photons and data, a program, that in essence he did not matter or was legally a life form. It was how much the crew at the start treated him as a tool to be used and gave no consideration of thought into how those thoughts or actions would impact him. A lot of my life I felt like I didn't matter and didn't really feel like I existed with how others looked at me, treated me like I didn't belong and those who even bothered with me just wanted to use me. When he went on his journey to be recognized and a valid person with a life to reclaim his rights to his art, I felt those in my own life with wanting to much just to be accepted and seen as just like any other person. Like the doctor who didn't present the expected nuances and intuit of social cues, seeing his growth in being more understanding of how his actions impacted others gave him an openness to understand that while he was yearning to be seen and heard as a valid individual, that he himself has not shown that level of respect and care and that is something I have learned I needed to work on myself. It was unfair of me to expect sensitivity and fair treatment from others when I myself was not being sensitive or fair to them. It's helped me to become a better person to reach the same understanding he had to face. There were also elements of his limitations that I related to like being confined to a space, a space in which if he tried to leave he would quite literally disappear. In many ways, I felt stuck in life and could only live if I stayed to myself. The only socializing I would do is if people came to me. Seeing that freedom he was given with his holo-emitter and witnessing the bravery to leave what he once considered his safe space helped give me courage to put myself out there, to take social risks. It also helps me see myself in him that he had a lot of common ground as a person, but that he was the same kind of bald that I've reached. There is not nearly enough bald representation in the media I consume; especially in the video games I play lol.
Thanks again for everything.
I headcannon Malcolm Reed from ENT as neurodivergent. I choose to say autistic specifically because I'm autistic, but I could see him having ADHD too. Either way, he outright says he hates small talk, and one could make the argument that weapons and such are his special interest (he's always so excited about things blowing up- like the episode where Travis convinced him to go to movie night by telling him that a lit of stuff blows up in the movie and he was like "you promised me explosions" while they were waiting for it to start)
I agree absolutely, also he always was trying to optimize or improve the weapons and emergency procedures LOL
My 12 year old son has FINALLY been diagnosed on the spectrum. We’ve known for years, but he was always “boarder line”. Your video is the only video we’ve found that can explain to him what autism is and how he can be successful and have friends. Thank you so much for this!
One problem I, an autistic person myself, have had with the prevalence of the savant trope is that it implies we (autistic people) can only be useful to society because of savant abilities. As someone who struggles at a basic thing like getting my first job while in my late twenties and feels shame over it, that really makes feel like I don't belong. There are other factors at play here, including how my parents dealt with my autism, but seeing that existing mindset in media really doesn't help.
I don't know if this helps, but I was labelled "gifted" (after the first year of school had "delayed development" in all but reading), and even did some stereotypical savant things like counting small numbers of objects all at once instead of one by one.. and I still could never find a job! Turns out "I do really well on all the tests but I had 50% school attendance" doesn't impress any jobs, and the ones that I had a small chance with turned me down bc my grades were so high they assumed I wouldn't stick around >.> trapped in everybody's expectations, and unable to go to anywhere but unemployment payments, as I struggle with daily living tasks due to big executive dysfunction.I guess my crux is this, once you leave school, whether or not you were considered a savant doesn't really seem to matter..... >.> we all seem to burn-out in the same way if we didn't luck into some institution that worked with our needs (like going right into academia or something).
It also lets narcissistic people on the spectrum act like they are superior beings.
This classmate i had called everyone stupid, including the professor. She was insufferable.
Well, this hit me in the feelings in ways I wasn't expecting. Thank you so much for making this video.
As someone else whose (probable) autism is often camouflaged by my conscious efforts at masking; I always adored and modeled myself on Kirk. I know, not exactly the character you expected to see on this comments section, but for me, Kirk was (and is) the perfect role model- often isolated from those around him, yet driven by his own deep sense of compassion, and a stubborn refusal to give up or compromise on descisions of lofe and death.
"Do not mistake composure for ease." Tuvok, "State of Flux. ST VOY. 1995.
I've got ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder), GAD (General Anxiety Disorder), and what used to be known as BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and am just very mediocre at just about everything. I'm very empathic and social, which goes against many peoples views of the spectrum as you describe, but the fact that I am high functional puts rather high demands on me which results in a lot of mood swings, anger outbursts and long term depression episodes. I often feel misunderstood and never really in my right element. Star Trek (TNG) was a great support for me growing up, and was my comfort zone when I felt lost, which was most of the time.
I have always related the most to Reg Barclay. I’m self diagnosed and wasn’t even that when the show was on its first run. What I was, as far as anyone knew, was a “problem child” evolving into a rude and awkward adult. That’s how I was seen and how I saw myself... as someone with potential (everyone has some after all) but so freaking hard to be around. I was bullied from somewhere in 4th grade until the end of high school. It did taper off but by then it took less to draw blood. Every inch of my was an open wound after middle school. Everywhere I went that I was known, someone was ready to close in... school, ballet class, church... I still have my faith, but teens are trash wherever you go and both they and the adults convince themselves that it’s not as bad as it is. So I had not one bully, but all the bullies. I was the go to victim for teasing.
(I understand there is a form of PTSD related to this kind of thing... being in the stressful/traumatic situation and feeling unable to escape, for a prolonged period. I check the boxes for it.)
So after that, I could only relate to Reg above any others. Data and Spock and even Seven were positively functional compared to my standard, and to this day, after years of trying to be “normal” as an adult, I avoid most friendships. I’m tired. I can’t pretend to be one of them anymore and since even my attempts to do so usually broke sooner or later... might as well make it now. Even when I managed to blend for a while, the awkward moments came, and bit by bit people would pull further and further away. I don’t have the energy to do it again... the fading smile, the exchanged glances they think you don’t notice, the hastily ended conversation.
Even family is a joke, outside of my own small one (who I am very lucky to have... a husband and three kids). My mom and sister were always on my back for not realizing something was rude to say, for not getting things that hadn’t been explained or even told to me, etc. No one told me and I had no right to not know. I should have assumed. My sister even said as much. I thought it was foolish to leap to conclusions without some proof but she seemed to think I should just figure it out.
So when karma smacked her ass she found out one of her sons was ADHD and the second was Autistic. Well, then. Did this make her a better sister? No, it made her impossible! The few times we’ve met since then she’s gone all soft voiced and patronizing... “Are you okay, Bee? Do you need to get away from the crowd for a few minutes?” Burn in hell, you missed your chance to pull that babysitter crap, Moose. Ugh.
Possibly there’s a reason the attempts at being social don’t quite take. Ahem. Anyway...
The point is, I have family on the spectrum but my five brothers are still Trump supporters (how? why? what?!?) and my sister talks to me like I’m a kitten with a head injury. And I have ranted far too long. Thank you for your time assuming you read it all.
I've only recently come to grips with being autistic myself. When I watched Star Trek as a kid (I wouldnt say I was a full trekkie but I do enjoy it), I was drawn to Data and Spock. Half the time, if a Next Gen ep wasnt about or didn't heavily involve Data my interest waned significantly.
I want you to know how SEEN this video made me feel. Logic, intense observation, all of it...Thank you for making this video
I'm a disabled veteran and a single parent to a 7 year old who is pegged on the low end of the spectrum with ADHD thrown in for shits and giggles apparently. Everyday feels like day one and this shit is burning me out. Please tell me as long as I continue to love and support him things will get better. On the plus side he's a very loving child.
I always wondered why I love and connect with Tilly so much more than autistic characters like Spock and Data and you put it into words -- she isn't a savant!
Hey Jessie, loving Star Trek is a mutual. I submerged into it for similar reasons and we are the ones who drive forward empathetic responses to the world around us. I wouldn't have survived my childhood without Trek, and I certainly won't survive our current world without some form of escape!!! Cheers from a fellow Trans and Neurodivengent.
Great job and choosing this topic and explaining it so well. Not only do I work with children on the spectrum guy personally and my two young sons fall within that umbrella. I have been a fan of Star Trek for 30+ years and everything you mention makes total sense. The character that first help me relate to what I was going through as a teenager was the character Reginald Barkley
I am new to your channel just discovering you yesterday and I love everything you produce. I have been binge watching your channel yesterday on a variety of topics.❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️💙💚💛🧡❤️💜
Definitely Barcley for me on easiest Trek character to identify as autistic from my perspectives as an autistic individual. But, for my money, the best autistic representation I've encountered in anything is Denise in "On The Edge of Gone" by Corinne Duyvis, a YA post apocalypse sci-fi novel (meteor collission). It's written by an autistic woman and the depiction of autism benefits all the more for that. It's that point, reading a book aimed at 15 year olds at age 32, that I encountered the first character in anything that I fully, truely, identified with, and I can't help but get a bit choked up at that, and a little bit angry that this sort of thing wasn't available when I was 15.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age and, talking with my therapist, I might also have autism. I'm to the point that I've self diagnosed as autistic (continuing to use the caveats of Might Have and Probably). I've always related most to many of these characters mentioned in this video so it's really nice to see them be shown as neurodivergent.
Thank you for making this video and kinda helping me remember which parts of my brain are autistic and okay
I was very upset watching Barkley's privacy be violated. My parents would laugh along and I just felt so alone because that was how my OCD and ADD intersected into fantasy world fixation and escapism.
I raised 3 kids on the spectrum. We are quite close even with them in their 20s. They never fixated much on Star Trek, That was mine, but they found comfort and escape in Pokemon and other Anime like Naruto and Gundam Mobile. I think if I didn't have my mom, raising them would have been so much harder than it was. Thank you so much for this video. It makes me think about my friends in high school who were obsessed with Data, and what they may have been going through. *hugs* & best wishes!
Oh...that's why all these characters are my favorites...and why I always root for the artificial lifeforms on every show I watch.
I was first introduced to TNG as a lonely, undiagnosed teenager. Everything about data was like a punch to the gut. Every misunderstanding, every attempt his character made to be human was like looking in a positronic mirror. It's only now I can understand the beauty of data's character and I am so grateful for the self discovery that was triggered by star trek. Although it still baffles me that a show about space aliens managed to do a better job at unpacking my ASD than people with degrees. This video was amazing, thank you so much. ❤️
I was placed in interchangeable "Special Needs" and "Gifted" programs, since I was really bored in school, and never hesitated to let teachers know what I thought. One principal paddled me to "break" me of outbursts, until Dad said he would paddle the principal.
My parents were huge Trek fans while I was growing up, and I learned so many things that helped me mask better from Data’s questions and the answers he’d be given during the episodes. I lacked the understanding. I even learned the phrase “don’t look at me” from the exact clip you showed. I felt seen by him, even with the feeling of not being human I still struggle with daily since I don’t naturally understand.
I adored this video. As a kid I would have terrible tantrums if my parents decided to change the plan for that day, even if that plan had only existed inside my own head. For example once my plan was to watch a cartoon show when I got home from school and instead they announced they were treating my sister & I to a trip the swimming baths. Even though I loved the swimming pool I had a full freak out for the whole 5 minutes it took for me to process the change of plan.
I still as an adult need to take a moment & a breath if my friends announce a last minute change of venue for a night out or something small like that. And if my friends spot that momentary hesitation I always seem to have to backtrack from their assumption that I'm sulking -when I'm not; I'm just processing.
So yeah I can understand being stressed in social situations 😅 xx
I find I often mesh really well with people with autism because they don’t assume they know what I’m feeling and can be more direct. The most comforted I ever felt during a panic attack is when my autistic friend simply asked me what I needed. Didn’t need to understand, their support was enough. It seems so simple to me now, but it’s rare. I also have anxiety about keeping conversation going, so hyper-fixation can be a boon. I love to hear people talk about their passions. I can just relax and learn. Anyway, that’s why I think actually autistic people can be great communicators in many situations. Just need the right conversational partner or, in the case of a teacher or a RUclips essayist, the right audience. ❤️ Anyway, I really enjoyed this video.