The Trojan War - Myth or Fact
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- Dr. C. Brian Rose, Deputy Director of the Penn Museum discusses excavations at Troy over the past twenty years. A new digital imaging technique shows a cross section of nine settlements dating from the beginning of the Bronze Age (ca. 3,000 B.C.) through the end of the Byzantine period (ca. 1400 A.D.)
My grandmother is from the island called "Pasalymani," which is in the sea of Marmara near ancient Troy. She used to sing a song about a man called Menelaus who was wandering around the towns nearby looking for his wife. She never heard of the Trojan War or the Iliad.
What a beatiful story. Pity you did not make an audio recording of your grandmother.
my left ear just loved it...
LMAOOOO, I feel the same way
Brian Rose is my hero! Bravo! Bravo!
Fact and myth combined.
The Iliad is an incredible view of early Greek, Mycenaean society. It combines history, myth, linguistics etc. Unfortunately there are many anachronism.
Oh, man... in minute 6, i became aware, i listened to this lecture yesterday before sleeping.
Its really good lecture.Keep it up.
The magnetic device scanning the ground down to 10ft (3m), would be ideal to use on the area of the ancient Wilusa bay (now silted over). Homer says the Greek ships were shored on the western shore of that bay.
The silting would mean interesting objects lie at a depth of less than 3m.
You would not need to scan the entire ancient lagoon/bay, just the area where you calculate the 1000 ships would have been shored, Greek encampment would have been made. The imaging would be a lot easier to read and less convoluted than the results you’d get at the mound itself.
Apart from proving the historicity of the amount of ships and Greek encampment (arguable), it might actually give an insight into the identity of those ships / Achaeans? Sea Peoples?
History says that The Sea People were a ragtag bunch of marauders who took to the seas to raid. Homer says Agamemnon collected 1000 ships over various tribes and took to the sea to raid.
That trojan horse with windows really does it for me. They'll never know!
I commented before realizing the archeologists were hotboxing it... I love it even more.
Thank you for posting this lecture! I'm a new subscriber to this channel. Looking forward to more amazing content.
People with real brains - it is actually a fascinating topic.
So you don't have to listen - no-one is forcing you ;-)
My error in previous comment- the audio does runs to actual end of the talk, but for some reason, the download continues PAST the lecture for another half hour. Go figure...
That is an editorial error. I will fix it asap. Thanks so much for pointing that out and for your interest in our youtube channel!
Penn Museum it’s been nine years. Are you fixing this?
10 years have gone by, no fix yet...
Great fix 🤣
Bruh
Really a shame that the audio and the visuals are not synchronised properly - it makes the content difficult to follow. I gave up after about the fifth time it became apparent that the speaker was talking about something I couldn't see.
Correct. Very frustrating.
Jams at 54:33. It makes no sense recording the audio of a lecture in which the speaker keeps referring to the audio-visual aids accompanying his talk without including that in the recording too.
+Matthew McVeagh I quite agree. I think many of the slides, etc. are shown, but are not synched up with the talk. Having watched a lot of 'Time Team', I can at least visualize the magnetometry Dr. Rose talks about, but not everyone has that advantage.
Is there any way to synch up the audio and the slides a bit better? This is a great lecture, spoiled a little bit by the fact that we cannot see what Dr Rose is talking about until long after he says it.
Is there any sound?
My speaker jack broke off in my computer so that I can only get the right speaker to work lol. No wonder I can't hear anything, only the left side of the sound is on this video! Can't figure out how to remove the broken piece of speaker jack so I can use a new cable instead of the old one held in place with tape.
Good lecture but the slides are scrambled and the lecture ends abruptly.
To try and be constructive:
The story in the Homers Ulyssus about Penelope unravelling by night what she had woven by day has a strange ring to it in the context of the findings that women enslaved from the now turkish side being put in charge weaving in Greece.
The point is:
We KNOW the silk cloth from China was unravelled and rewoven in much flimsier cloth. That makes sense, as cargo weight was precious - which was why the only payment brought to China was gold which value to weight ratio has allways been high. The value to weight ratio of silk is high,
There is even a reason why Penelope unravelled by night! Silk is destroyed by sunlight which means that the stock of silk must be kept in the dark. Silk is also generally used for intimate (unsunlit) garments. The daytime weaving was only to keep money flowing.
I am not saying Penelope was abducted from Troy, but names have a weird persistence: A freind of mine in Turkey (Hatay) has two daughters: Asina and Medane - they are turks no doubt about that - but the names are Athena and Medea - which are undeniably greek.
There was in antiquity a steady stream of gold from Europe, which created a scarcity of gold relative to silver - which made gold even more precious. Alexander the Great - when he pinced the persian warchest bought up silver at a good price for gold - which is one way of making his assets liquide and able to purchase for the war - at war inflated prices. To this day the Alexandrian tetra-drachme is to some extend still in circulation. Even worn specimens can command a high price in turkish markets.
But it also explains the transfer of gold from the Americas to Europe. The native economy of the f.i. the Inkas was a bronze-age economy. Copper was precious relative to gold. And when these Europeans show up and offer copper at an advantageous price in gold - you should be a very stupid indian not to trade.
The problem with being an economist in company with archeologists is: The historians have no understanding of monetary theory or economics as a whole.
To an economist this is (or should be) freshman knowledge.
Interesting comment.
This is an amazing lecture.
What does Great The Sites Ancient Of World mean at the beginning?
Audio craps out about half an hour before the ending.
well thanks for information but i have a question ..
as a Turk
why did you put the picture of a ottoman empire ruller and a turk soldier at the end of the video ?
Did bronze age neighbours squabble and fight eachother, well it would be a remarkable period in history if they didn't 😑
He is insisting on naming this region as turkey while this region is not turkey
How does he figure there was a grain trade from the Black Sea to the Aegean during the Bronze Age?
36:50 I don't realy understand who was going to atack the city walls with chariots.
A similar "live" version showing the speaker giving this talk is also available from Penn Museum at ruclips.net/video/Eud9KQo6FkQ/видео.html.
There is no city named Troy. The name of the city is Ilion (from which the epic poem The Iliad is derived). Ilion sits in the region of Troas, from which the name Troy has mistakenly been taken.
Really frustrating to listen to discussion of slides that you cannot see.
Dear Penn Museum, why don't you have a listen to what Alan Wilson and Barram Blackett have to say about the Trojans.....
Academics abhor Alan and Baram basically they are ignored and marginalised and even sabotaged.there is little worse than academic closed minds.
A bit of research revealed that these gentlemen have studied King Arthur. With a side order of Prince Madoc, Welsh, umm, discoverer of America.
😎
Or Herodotus
The walls were not right nor was the armor of the Troy soldiers in the movie.
يستخدمونه في بلى كره ارضيه وكوكب وكواكب استاصال وقمر استحاله وعلق ومضغه ونطفه وكل شي وخماسي واختاري وادري و
scientific method
If all this is true then why do so many 'learned scholars' deny that Troy ever existed?
Maybe there are just referring to the Trojan War (with the Greeks)...and not Troy at city...but they tend to deny anything that has survived antiquity in story form and denigrate those stories to the status of myth.
Which so called learned scholars
Learned what
@@dp6003 Are you asking me to clarify or are you agreeing with me because my first response was to say that is exactly my point… They know nothing about nothing
Just answer me whether it's fake or real
A pile of cities existed at the site considered Troy since Classical times. Some destruction by war or earthquake.
The "real" Troy? Could be.
The war really happened but not exactly as it is told, of course.
I'd have to give this a thumbs down, not for it's content, but for it's poor audio / visual synchronization. I hope they have enough respect for their own work to correct what could be an interesting lecture.
يستخدمونه في كل مكان واليوم في خلاص واستاصال واستعمال وسعير وبرد ورب وربط و ثلاثي واجهزه حرق وجهنم ومي ومباشر وخرف وفرخ وخريف وصيف وجاهلي ورحم الله والديك وتكسرت وتكسر ن رقابنا رقيب ونضير ونطير وأحمد وسلام واصحابنا وهارون وكاظمي ن ومحمد وعبد لطيف وحكوم نا وسلط انا ولازم طرد من دنيا وعذاب دنيا سبع وبرزخ وخلد سبع وآخره وخماسي ونور ومجرات وبراري وجدد ويستعم لنهن في استعمالات وكل ما تحتاجه أمره وال مراه نسوان وسيدات وملكات جهنم وسيدات هن وعم وعملا قا تهن وعظيمات وعظا ظات وعظا مات وعجازات واعجاز يأت وفاطمات وزهرات ومريم وكريمات وحريقي آت وايسيات وايسن واي سي وجهنم ودخان وعراقيات ودخان وصدام كويت واخبار وجو وجوع وجوه وجهنم وحرق أجيال وجماهير و خفايا وخيفه وسبع ارضين ونسخ وسلخ وصلخ وطبر وهبر وبطر ورطب ولازم يه تكسرن وتكسرو ن جدد ومستقبل وسبق وال مقصد وثلاث والله وماورا احلام وعادات وآخره وعذاب واجهزه ومولدات وصيرور وخاوات و٥٠ ترلون ونسخ وتوزيع ولازم مغفره وكتب وانجيس وتنج يس وانجيل وتوراه وقرابين وقرائين جدد واجيال جدد وجهنم وسكس ودسات وتثبيت وعمليات ورد وسحر وشعوذات وسرقات وتموز آت وزرع وياجوج وسدود تكسرن جدد ومنوعات جدد وظباط جدد وسادات وعلويات وراهبات وجرايم وانتظار وإغلاق واغلفه جدد وسرقات وخطف وشلع وغزاليه ومازال جديدات
هاذي قصص عبد جبار وظباط ومراجع ومراحب وعراق ذله وجهنم وتعب وخزنه عذاب خلد وغضب ودعارات وصدامي وصدر وجورج وحكيم ومنع ومحمد ويسوع وخضر وزبائن وعشره وتسع رهط ومدينه وفساد وحريه ومدينه صدر وغزاليه ودوره وبياع وبلد وشعله ورحماني ومواقع وخماسي ونجوم وافلاك ومجرات وكاظمين وصحابته وعبد قادر وعلاوي ونهضه والله ومعدي ودجال وزمن و ودهر وهدر ولحظه وظلع وخالص وقصص مقتدى وتريدون تريدن تكسرن رگابنه وكربلائنا ونسرين جورج وايفان وملك وزرع ومتصور وأم علي وعامر وسيد حليب وسهام عبيدي وكويت وأم إياد وقيس وحسن وأم سحر وزيد وكاظمين وعباس وسعيد ومحمد وبتول ومواهب وعشايرها جهنم وبدايه جهنم والشرطه واشر طة سكس فلاح وأفراح وفادي وأم عدي وسجاد وابو سمر وفراعنه ونبيل بدري وعاطف جهنم ودعارات وسريات وقصص أوكرانيا وموقع منصو منصور ومنصه ومثله وعجز وخوارق وخزاعل وجمانه وانعام وهم ك انعام وعلاء وكريم وعباس وابو أسماء وأم سلمان ومحمود وأم ضياء جهنم وعشايرها دعارات ونهب وعذاب خلد وبرازخ وآخره وحور عين وسبع دجيل وكفاح وميدان وهور رجب ومعسكر رشيد خزنه سريات وجهنم ومؤيد منصور جهنم ومحمد جهنم وعشايرها بدايه في نجوم وكواكب وديكورات وختلات وخفايا وسادات وسيديه وعامر وحسين وعدنان وعدي جهنم وتعذيب مهدورين ومنوعات وقصص زهره وفاطمه وموائد وحالات اسيا واسيل وشروق وبتول وتماره ورغد وداعش ونينوي وقصي وعاد وعدي وسوجد وضبحا ونور ونزيهة وعبد إله قبل ميلاد وفي ضلمات ودسات قبل وسبق وقصص حسين وسيدات وزينب ويزيد وزيد وزيداوي وايزيديه وزيد ن وزيد ون وعشايرها جهنم قبل بدايه وقبل طبر ونهايه واطلاله وضواهر ومظاهرات إيران وإسبانيا واكرا نيا وب تين وخزرج وهيازع وخزاعل وجبور وسواعد ولام جحيم وسرايا ت وسرايا مدينه حريه ورهط وطهاره وال بيت رهط وال عمران رهط وال خضر رهط وطبر وبطر وخاوات وبدر وجيش مهدي وقاعده واسمع بن لادن وقواطع جهنم وقصص ك ج أدين وجاسم وافغانستان وعجز وكويت وسان ستي وحسين كامل جهنم وعبد كريم وأم منصور وابو منصور وشفا وشفاء وعشايرها جهنم ومنوعات وحالات ورباطات وسلاسل طبقات أرض وسماوات ومحيطات وجو ومحافلها وقصص نسور وطيور واحلام وحرق اج ج اجهزه واجيال ومعدومين ونانو ونانا واجهزه ومولدات ومحذ ومحطات ولحظات وعصور وظلع وظرب وظرف وفرض وقضايا ونت وفصول وموتى واف بي اس وتلفزيون آت ولازم وبلع ما ووبلا زما ونجوم وكواكب وميتات ومعذبين ومنذ أزل ومازال وعلاسات وقصص سلفيات شروگي آت عجم وعرب وجهنم وحرق ونار وصديقه وصدر ونور هدى وشيوعيات وشيو عيات وعم وحيدره ومعاويه ومحمد وسفيان ومسيلمه وال بيت وال كساء ومحافلها وهادي وجعفر وعباس وأمين وبلاط شهداء وابن جوزي وعلى وحريه ورهط وعطور ومواهب ونوفل وخمائل وجاهلو محمد وإبراهيم ونوح وموسى وعيس وال بيت ه وخضر وآله وربهم دجان وقطار وزقوم وزقنبوت واخلقونه ونخل قكم واضرحه ولي أمرها كلها وقصص مطر وحرايق بيوت وكهربا ئيات ونار وحرق شعوب بدايه ومملكات نهايه كلها من معانات شعوبنا واحنه ووياهن وياهم وموتى ومعذبين في طبقات سموات وعجنا وعجنا وعجم ا ء واكوان وأفلام وافلاك ومجرات وكواكب وبراري جبال وبحار ومحيطات ومواقع ومليارات معذبين وديكورات ونافو والله وعادات وبسمله وعشايرها وفي ظلمات عراق وعجم وإيران وإيران وجهنم وعرب وغرب ومنهم وجو وفي حطين وتريدون تكسرون رگابنا وتريدون تر يدن تكسرن رگبتنا وكربلائنا ونحفنا ونجف نا ومحطات نا وحرايق نا وحدايق نا نينوى قبل عراق جهنم سلف جعفري شروگيه سنه وتكسر ن تكسرو ن اكراميات وحالات وزين وتحسين وعجاهز وجاهلي تنا وغفا لتنا وقفلنا وعدنا وتعمدنا وعل نا ونارنا وحددنا وحدو دنا وحر جهنم نا ونضرنا وبصرتنا وبسكلا تنا وخزعبلا تنا وخلصنا وخلا صنا واستا صالنه وذاكرتنا وذاكرتنا وذيقار نا وذي قبل ودسكلتنا واشبا عنا ومن عدل ومن زرع ومن نصر ومحافلها ومع ومعانات شعوب ومربوط ين وج وجدد ومستقبل وغدا وعراق وم ومنع وعارض وشيو وشنو وَتعاسات ومعانات مضلو مات ومهدور ين ومشلوعات ومخطوفين في طبقات دنيا سبع وجو سبع وبرازخ وخلد وخوارق وعجز سبع وعجايب دنيا سبع ومعلقات سبع وجناين معلقه وغزاليه وحريه وبلد ومدينه وحريه زراعي وعدل حريه وم وثوره وشعله ورحماني وبياع و ومعانات مطاردات ومطرودين وممسوخات وتحت حوالات اضرحه واعترافات وعراق وعرات وأطفال دجال عراق وافلاك وخلد واكوان ومزعطه عراق سلف جعفر وعجم غرب عرب و اكوان ومجرات وديكورات وختلات وخفايا وقمر وشمس ونجوم وثريا وخماس واغتصابات وعذاب خلد وحرايق وسريات وسرايا ورباطات وسلاسل واجهزه الان حرق وعلني واعترافات لا تنتهي وال قبل ١٠٠ادم ومخطوفات وشعوب ومم وم وملكات واجيال معذبه خلد ومشلوعات ومطاردات ومبرمجات ومطويات وعجز ومنوعات وغرايب ورجع وفل وكاظمين وهارون وزرع وزهر واضرحه وحسين ويزيد وسيدات أمم وفاطمه وعائشه وآسيا واسيل وأم زيد وض وضياء وتسع رهط ومدينه وأم صباح وجلال وصاح وصاج وفاروق وشيماء ومريم وباسم ومقتدي وج وجو بايدن وعراقيون سحر ونجس والله وجهنم ودعارات سلف وسنه وج وجعفريه وجنوب عراق ومداهمات ودسات سيادتها قبل ورجوع وفك وفتح وعزراييل وزيد وايزيديه واختطاف ومحطات واشر طه وتوقيع أشر طه وحولن فلوس وعجز وتصنيع محمد كرخ وتسسيرات وتفسير وتسف ي آت وتسف ير آت واختلاق واخل قونه ونخل قكم ونخيل وماستر وكتب وحور و عبد رحيم وهاني ومكيه وبهيجه ودلال ومديحه ونبيل وسلا لاتها وال بعد ٥٠ مليار وألوان آدم ومدام وحوا ومدا وديمومي ومسروقات وزر ورجع وعجز وكف ووووووووووو
The presenter seems to prescribe the destruction of Troy in the 13th C BCE to an "earthquake" like Blegen did , and the Myceneans in the early 12th C BCE. But that leaves out the destruction caused by the "Sea Peoples." I think it is far more likely that the 13th C BCE destruction was caused by the Myceneans and early 12th C BCE by the "Sea Peoples."
و تريدن تريدون مرحبا مرحبا مرحبا مرحبا مرحبا مرحبا ٥ل وم قابلونه قابل قابيل تر ٧ اعذبكم تريدون استا صالنه وجا هنا وجا هليتنا ومنعنا من معانات وفر وقلب وعذاب خلد وتعب وإنيات وهروب وختلات وعذاب وعيون و
Это ложь все!!! Шлиман не нашел Трою. Вы хотите знать, что такое троянский конь? Вы хотите знать, где была Троя? vk.com/id264307486?w=wall264307486_488%2Fall
Myth.
Every thing so wonderful Dr. Rose …..! You have to study more end start with oldest cultural levels and civilization which build the city ! Start with Thracian (Bulgarian - Aryan) history and forget Greeks! It is kids lie,s get serious please ! funny western historians : )))) Did you participate in destruction of Iraq museum ? Barbarians ! Mentioning arrow heads not knowing from which cloture are …common man seriously …… : )))) Dr.Rose get on the Trojan horse and start being historian ! We are not at cold wore any more ! Did you ever open Homer Iliad Dr. Rose ?? the king of Myrmidons Is feather of Achilles ( Ahil ) ! Did you believe Myrmidons are Greek Dr. Rose ?
Did you study pedigree of greeks Dr. Rose ? Greeks do not poses ability to translate cloture which is older Dr.Rose : )))