Before Silk: Unsolved Mysteries of the Silk Road by Colin Renfrew
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Colin Renfrew speaks on the Unsolved Mysteries of the Silk Road at the Silk Road Symposium held at the Penn Museum held in March 2011.
The extent of contact between east (China) and west (Europe and Western Asia) in the prehistoric period has been much debated but remains little understood. In 1921 John Gunnar Anderson's excavations at Yangshao in Henan province led him to interpret the painted neolithic pottery found there as derived from that of neolithic Greece, a suggestion discounted by most subsequent scholars. Yet the genetics of the millet found in the neolithic of China and of eastern Europe leads archaeobotanists today to suggest a single source. The origins of copper and bronze metallurgy are likewise debated, and the mechanisms of transmission from the west of the horse-drawn chariots seen in burials of the late Shang dynasty are still open to question. Xinjiang province, with its remarkable preservation and its many insights from the second and first millennia BC offers tantalising clues, not least the Tarim "mummies" with their wonderfully preserved clothing and their western appearance. The presence there in the eighth century AD of the Tocharian language, the easternmost in the Indo-European language family, has led to intriguing speculations. These will be critically addressed. It will be argued that we are the dawn of a new era in the archaeology of prehistoric Eurasia, with the Silk Road offering challenges to many long-held ideas.
Colin Renfrew is the former Disney professor of Archaeology and Director of the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research at the University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK. He is now Senior Fellow of the McDonald Institute.
More information at www.penn.museum
The 'Witches of Subeshi' are a few of the often forgotten mummies of the Silk Road. A lecture regarding these other finds would be rather informative.
i dare anyone to have a full beer everytime the speaker says "ah"
Go to 4:50 if you want to skip the intro and the intro to the intro.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Love the preliminaries too!
What's with the full screen slides? Not synched properly
Colin Renfrew is the best! Thank you for this.
Mallory has some good points too , slightly divergent - yet part of the ongoing academic investigation of the period.
very interesting!!!
This was a great conference. Time is coming round for another :)
Lecture starts at 5:15.
Actually starts at about 3:30
JonFrumTheFirst thank you
Thanks! I was just about to post the same! The talk really begins at 4.50.
Simply fasinating!
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Has anyone measured “The Witches Hat” against the gold hats kept at Berlin Museum für Vor- und Frühgeschichte?
Love the sites,artefacts and preserved bodies that are shown - very interesting to look at.
Lord Renfrew is the GOAT! 👌
I am not sure if the chariots referred to at 31:55 is the spoked wheel variety or not, but solid wheel chariots with decorated spokes have been found in non-Haprappan graves at Sanauli, Uttar Pradesh, India and were dated to 2000-1800 BCE.
Visit the Penn Museum in Philadelphia! Incredible place.
I really find the Adventure of finding these kind of places, even though i am no Academic and for from one, i do admire these Doctor's and such, i do wonder about those who really work hard in the elements in that part of the world. Thank you for sharing such information i cannot even begin to make since of, though i am familiar with the misinformation we were taught in School.
Again, Thanks!
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What a great talk. Renfrew is great. He really puts to rest all those idiotic "conquering" indoe-eurpoean theories you see flying around the deep recesses of the web. And since he's studied it all his life, he's far more trustworthy.
The step or taklamaran desert was not that dry 4000 years ago, it is proof that there where lakes and they ate fish. And thats about nomads, they never overdue the grasing to kill the nature, they go to other place, and come back when vegatation regrows. And also they had their livestock and wheat, so they are in the safe side to survive all trouble of that time.
And time to work to process nice fabrics. During Winter like in all pasture cultures.
"Disney professor of Archaeology" ... what a title.
Wow
Was the Tarim wetter back then?
Look into the changes in the climate for the past 15,000 or so years. There are computer generated models of it.
🎩 The tall hat reminds me of the Berlin Golden Hat which was a calendar showing moon cycles.
🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑
Yes, the Urnfield Culture.
Silk road is a trade road and it was a melting pot for all kinds of people.Tocharian alphabets is originated from Aramaic alphabet. It is well documented that the earliest Aramaic alphabet was from 500 BC during Achaemenid era in ancient Persia. The earlist Tocharian scripts found in Xinjiang China was dated 400 A.D whih is 1000 years later than Aramaic alphabet. That means people who speak Tocharian did not have their own written system from 5000 BC (according to Sir Renfrew's Anatolia theory) until they had contacted with ancient Persia, i.e. Tocharians had ancient language but much newer written system. Isn't this strange? From 5000BC to 500 BC, isn't possible that those Tocharians were living close to Aramaic people and left some trace in Ancient Persia? Why did archeoligist late only found their scrpits along the silk road in Xinjiang China which is thousands miles away? Isn't obvious Tocharians were merchants too and left their scripts along the silk road when they travel? If so, how can we say the 3000 year old Mummies found in Turfan (much earlier than Tocharian scripts) are Tocharians? It doesn't make any sense. There is 1500 years gap between the Mummies (3000 BC) and Tocharian scripts (400 AD).
There is a photograph of an ancient saddle at 14:32 - with a drawing of a horse and saddle at 14:41 - the drawing is inaccurate in so many ways i couldnt begin. The saddle shown on the horse looks completely different from the photograph of the ancient saddle. If we are going to take "experts" seriously, then museum artwork, which show ancient artifacts need to reflect expertise even at a fundamental level. If the artifact somehow gets destroyed then all we have left is an inaccurate drawing of it. This serves us no purpose if we claim to be interested in preserving ancient history. This isnt the first time i have seen from museums and universities very poor drawings that claim to represent relics, artifacts and costumes. I have come to distrust any and all drawings shown in museum displays and textbooks without having a photograph of the item in which to compare it.
Great comment Catherine. After the admitted shenanigans of The Smithsonian, I'm extremely hesitant to put much credit in their information, descriptions or entireties of their exhibits. They give us the "interpretations" they want us to believe.
I am in complete agreement with both previous comments.
When he is referring to the burial excavation, the slides are those of a map, and other mishaps during the lecture took away from its effectiveness. Was this intentional?
Why so many armchair scholars in the comments?
They want a chance to ride their hobby horses.
Sometimes the pictures don't match what the speaker is saying. Very frustrating indeed.
I should think that would be the fault of the speaker.
Uh em ah... good uhh point.. he probably um didn’t advance the uh slides properly
Tibet still needs to become independent
Yes Mr. Renfrow, Uigur ladies are beautiful.
And. Ujgur people are NOT Chinese people and this autonmous region those days were not China. So be always refering to it as China he accepts China expansion. Like calling Tibet China.
RICE as a food source of the people living in the area of the silk road was not mentioned, why? It is a staple food for the chinese and could have been traded by them by way of the silk road up to the Levant, possibly up to Rome.
marilou pring Thought all those folks ate wheat and millet via bread. No dry rice farming outside of China west.
Agreed, majority of Chinese that eat rice live south of the Yangtze river. The Northern Chinese had more wheat and millet
This isn't China proper. It's part of Central Asia that in which the Chinese are conquerors and colonists. In the ancient times under discussion here, this region was as almost as alien to the Chinese as the Ukraine is.
i dont understand that why european/ american scholars declare everything ''western world/ western art',' for chinese everything lies in the west, even india, but for the europeans everything lies in the east except europe, so why dont they just state the obvious that certain art is indian, persian, central asian etc, why do they have to bring their agenda and claim ''western'' in everything it is like they mischievously putting stamp of europe in them.
This is a GENERAL lecture.
Sometimes terminology is loose.
Get over it. This isnt a peer reviewed journal article.
I think western is used as they just mean not ‘Oriental’ - not eastern Asian. Western civilization started in Mesopotamia, right? It’s not European - just not Chinese - and maybe now considered Middle East by Europeans. China was the most advanced civilization for quite some time, so nearly anything else in Eurasia was considered Western from that.
Well indoeuropean seems to be loosely called west throughout the lecture, including india & persia and so on
Colin Renfrew: So, the invention of the wheel and implementation of its use, not so important after all. Hmm...
He is saying that a wheel is not much use in the desert sands.
@@tayal01 but it is
@@thejmoneyshow : Not if it's without balloon tyres.
Context dude, context.
Facts derived from partial truths laced with personal preferences is a danger for the Historian on the path for a greater understanding.
No mention of space lizards -this is bullshit! no, no -great lecture suite, cheers Penny.
"Intentional" in the sense that the speaker did NOT really demonstrate any convincing evidence in his claim thus exercised "deliberate" mishap by accident as such as being pointed out, so that the audience was intended to be left with only the speaker's words and claims while deprived of the opportunity that was supposed to be due to the audience to challenge his claim if the proper slides of burial excavation sites had been properly shown at the juncture when he made his claim in the process?
LOL
Neglecting L. N. Gumilev’s synthetic theories.
Blocked by CHINA is your answer... YES....YOU are not allowed ONLY HE WAS
Scientists like Renfrew these days talk like politicians.
I am sorry, but as an experienced equestrian. I am able to put absolutely no credibility to this lecture after seeing the gross incompetence of the depiction of the horse tack. It is absolutely inconceivable that that is the manner in which this piece of kit was secured to the horse.
Do these people not know how to use a microphone what the hell
The inland sea (Tlakamakan) was there, and the Tartars the first Aryans, they came down 12500 years ago.
What a rubbish
Disney professor.....
outdated
18+ minutes in and he's said nothing concrete about anything. Sure hope he communicates more clearly in writing than in lecturing!! So far, two references to other speakers who will be later and two unseen slides explained... I can use my time better than this.
Dude loves using passive-voice sentences when concluding on any controversial matter. Makes his position seem more neutral.
... because that never happens with professors?
Yes; that's one of the main reasons for using the passive voice.
On the other hand, your use of the word 'dude' here seems glaringly inappropriate.
disney professor of the mcdonald institute, university of california, burger king
The subject is tops....few themes come back time after time and still demand such huge attention....except fm sheep in Amerika...they rather enjoy the Kardashians....jejeje
Are the Schytians-Huns forbidden history Mr Renfrew ?? Not a word about them . Please study the Hungarian language and legends , Would not heart even the ancient geographical names too like Bator,Bihar Maghar Ur Uru-Solyma etc. by 1000,s A professor should have deeper analizis . Han dynasty maybe Hun too . Schytia east from Tarim basin to West Schytia to Danube basin
His lecture was more on the Tarim Basin and the Silk Road proper. Some of the Magyar may have come from an area that may have been at the teminus of one of the branches Silk Road, but if we consider the language itself, its pretty clearly a Uralic language, meaning that they probably originated near the Ural mountains. The Huns and Scythians are themselves probably from the eurasian steppes, meaning that they're far to the north and don't bear directly on the Silk Road -- unless we give the guy hours more to talk.. The Huns and Scythians are both, based on the evidence, probably not ethnically or linguistically distinct groups, either. They were not connected to the Han. They likely spoke Turkic languages in the former case and Iranian in the latter. I'm sorry that doesn't fit your nationalistic agenda, but that's the historical consensus we're working with here.
@@niclas9990 you may well be right. Yet the imperial desire of Western Europeans linking everything (Huns and Scythians) to IndoEuropean origin justifies their ongoing approach of “superiority”. Nacionalista is a symptom of resistence to being ignored and not seen for who we are őr might be. The language and the culture and the genes are not one and the same
Blah blah blah blah blah! Get to the talk! I hate all the introductions!!!